Spain surge into Euro 2024 final and Lamine Yamal takes breath away – Football Daily

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Spain are into the finals of the Euros, then a deserved 2-1 win over France and two glorious golds.

Yes, everyone is banging on about how old Lamin Yamal is, but he is 16 and he bent one in the top corner in the semi-finals.

Daniel Mo's feet were beautiful for the second and then they held on.

France had to come out.

They had a couple of decent chances in one moment when Mbappe was through.

A goal he scored hundreds of times but he ballooned it over the bar and that sums up his tournament.

And then we look ahead to tomorrow again.

By all accounts, another game with Kieran Trippier starting on the left and also another team playing in the match.

We'll try and remember that.

We've pinned all our hopes on a late Ellis James voice note as Craig Bellamy becomes Wales manager.

All that plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Captain says, is Barry back in the podcast crew tonight?

Or has he been expelled for his comments about the futility of all of it?

Yeah, welcome back, Barry.

Hi.

Bonjour Sava.

Commiserations, Philippe Auclaire.

Thank you very much, Max.

I'm very grateful for your commiserations.

And Feliz, Semra Hunter, welcome.

Muchas gracias.

Thank you.

Yes, very happy.

Very well played, Semra.

Let's start with you.

How do you feel?

Oh, I feel great.

I'm buzzing right now because I think I finally allowed myself to be excited about Spain again.

Because the last decade or so, it really has just been kind of disappointment after disappointment.

And we thought maybe we were finally getting through that transitional period.

Finally, we were getting competitive again.

Finally, we could go toe-to-toe with the world's elite.

But now it really feels like that is true.

And I think Spain are deservedly in the final.

They've been the best team at this tournament.

And

for the first 45 minutes, they were excellent tonight.

The second half, we'll talk about it.

Not so great, but nonetheless, very happy indeed.

Pete says, What's more tedious?

People talking about how Lamine Yamal is only 16, or people ironically saying, anyone know how old Yamal is?

It is, Barry.

It's such an amazing goal, Barry.

And he is, he's only 16.

I'm not going to do a, it's past his bedtime gag they've all been done but what a moment yeah and before France had even scored he he should have added another assist to his tally because he he sent in a lovely cross to the far post which Fabi and Ruiz somehow managed to not score with and then the goal

He knew exactly what he wanted to do.

I suspect before the ball even came to him.

He jinked this way and that to create the room and make

Rabio, Rabio, Rabio look very foolish indeed.

And then when he got the ball on his left foot, he curled it into the top corner off the post, which I think is always a bit nicer.

He nearly did it again later in the game.

You know, I don't think I'll score that goal again, but on that occasion, he put it over and he just, I mean, 16, it's ridiculous, isn't it?

I'd like to see him.

No, I was going to make some sort of stupid comment about Luke Littler, but,

you know, we all raved about him.

And

he's just seems so mature and street-wise already.

He's well able to look after himself.

And I believe Adrian Rabio had made not particularly disparaging comments about him before the game, but had said, you know, he needs...

to up his game and take it up a level because the semi-final is different and

he certainly did that didn't he yeah he said he said um if lamina mar wants to play in the eurofinal with spain he'll have to do much more against us than he has done so far we will put pressure on him so that he is not comfortable i would say philippe as barry has alluded to he didn't put that much pressure on him at that exact moment no he did not and um young um

showed his maturity beyond his years as well when he committed a perfect tactical foul late in the game

I hope you enjoyed that.

Oh, yes, you did, didn't you?

I did very much, I have to say.

I thought he's not going to do it.

Oh, yes, he's going to do it.

16 years of age, that's fine.

He knows all the tricks in the game.

And

Rabio, I don't want to go on about him, but he didn't have his finest game in the French shirt.

And I think that the fact he was replaced by Camavinga later in the game showed that maybe Deschamps realized that against a team like Spain, perhaps it hadn't been the wisest choice.

And we saw the difference actually when

Kema Vinger went on.

But I have to say,

I'm really, I wouldn't say torn because the best team won, the team that has shown us the best football since the beginning of the tournament has won.

And I sincerely hope they go on to win the tournament because that would be wonderful for everybody, wonderful for football.

But it was not a disappointing performance by France, if I dare say so.

We finally something which looked like the team we were hoping to see from the beginning of the tournament, but too late.

And again, with the same problems in front of gold that we've had for quite a long time now, with Mbappe confirming what I was saying to your horror the other day, Max, is that he's not a born finisher.

I maintain it.

He's not.

He's not going to get in the Real Madrid side, is he?

Just going to sit on the bench.

Vinicius is not going to be sweating at all after that performance tonight, or even the whole summer so far, right?

Semir, just on your male, like

he clearly had a brilliant season last season, but it feels like he's sort of stepped up a level for this tournament.

Is that just me being blinded by seeing a young kid having a lovely tournament?

No, I tell you what, he stepped up for Barcelona when they really needed him, when they needed somebody.

And they put so much responsibility on his shoulders.

And he broke through to the first team in incredible fashion.

And I mean, just some fun facts about Yamal and

the season that he's had and how he's doing with Spain.

Tonight, he became the youngest player since Pele in 1958 to feature in a major tournament semi-final.

And actually, he beat the record because he's 16 years old and 362 days.

So, by the way, we can only say he's 16 for another three days.

He's turning 17 the day before the final.

And he becomes the youngest player to ever score.

He's been past it.

Yeah, I think past it.

He's going to be over the hill.

Thinking about retirement.

And he's now the youngest scorer at a European Championship semi-final.

And he does play as though he's so fearless, as though the pressure doesn't really affect him or bother him.

And perhaps being in that kind of environment at Barcelona where there's so much pressure because of everything that's going on on and off the pitch, he's already been exposed to that in that environment.

And he's done so incredibly well.

He's been so successful this past season that I think it's been able to carry over into Spain as well.

And just kind of a fun fact as well.

There's this great photo of an ad that, I don't know if you've seen this, that Messi is holding.

It's a lad, right?

Lamal in his arms when he's like one years old, or something like that.

They're both lefties.

So he obviously has been blessed by, you know, the Argentinian football god himself.

So maybe that has something to do with it, pure coincidence or not, who knows?

But he is a very special player.

And I'm excited to see what else he's capable of doing as he gets older.

I just have one question about him: is that one of the things which is so beautiful about him is that his grace, his balance and his elegance, which is due also to the fact he's quite slight still.

And you have this feeling that he's got this unbelievable flexibility in the joints and this, yes, natural grace of a dancer.

I'm just wondering how both Barca and the Spanish national team are aware they've got to protect that in a way when you've got a jewel like that.

So like, don't spend too much time in the gym, my friend.

Just be careful, look after yourself.

it's what we say to barry

no but it's sometimes you see players who are who are is not is at a very much earlier age than players usually do this transition usually it's between 18 and 21 that you do the transition between being a hopeful and and you know even even trude bellingham it was between 18 and 21 that he became what he is now and here we have a player who is still developing physically and i'm just wondering about how how you can protect that so he doesn't lose this.

I mean, for me, yes, Amazing Grace.

You know, that's a nice song.

And that perhaps defines what he is like.

I mean, it's an absolute joy to watch that.

I mean, he seems his feet don't seem to leave an imprint on the grass.

He's so light

on his feet.

He just moves from one one leg to the next, one foot to the next.

And it's impossible to do anything about it.

And it's lovely to watch, even if he scores against you.

We should talk about Danielmo's goal as well, Semra, because those feet are ridiculous.

I mean, he is like coming in.

You know,

we're so sad that Pedri was out, and it was like we thought this is the perfect midfield, Rodri, Fabian Rees, and Pedri.

And he Pedri's out, and actually, Danielmo came in, scored and assisted in the quarterfinal, and now has done something brilliant in this game.

And not just that, he's actually had a great tournament, to be fair.

And he's one of these players that Luis de la Fuente has really liked and

pretty much just wants him out on the pitch.

Doesn't really matter where it is that he's being deployed because he knows that he's going to be able to help out in one way or another.

And he's done that, right?

He's provided goals and assists, and

he's been brilliant, quite frankly, because I think he

I'm not so sure they did a great season domestically with his club team.

So the fact that he was able to bring out a different version of himself for Spain has been a very pleasant surprise in a lot of different ways.

So it is nice to see that in the absence of a player like Pedri, who also did have a bit of an underwhelming tournament until the injury, it's nice to see that at least there was somebody else who was able to

stand in and

be such a great performer.

And actually, all across the board, I think everyone for Spain really kind of stepped up a level for this particular tournament.

Can we show some love

for Luz de La Fuente as well?

Because

I have to say

I'm quite amazed.

Maybe I didn't follow Spain closely enough over the last few years, but to see somebody whose whole managerial experience is basically working with youth teams of the national team and suddenly being able to have the national team which has got, had developed

a very specific playing tradition.

and being able to transform it completely.

We don't recognize Spain in this tournament because we I think many of us are discovering this new Spain in this tournament compared to the Spain that we have known to love and sometimes which bored us to death, I must say, from time to time, and which disappointed you, you know, over the last few years.

And suddenly this man arrives who has no club experience, only has worked with youth teams, and is capable of getting players from all these various clubs and getting them to play like this.

I mean, how does he do it?

How did he do it?

What's the secret?

Is he

I mean, is he kind of some kind of, is he a very charismatic kind of manager when he's

in the dressing room on the training pitch?

What kind of man is he?

I think you've actually kind of answered your own question in some way in that he does have experience working with young players and going through the ranks.

So he already knows a lot of these players from the time that they were younger.

He's either worked with them or has known of them over the past years that he's been with the Spanish national team, obviously in lower categories.

And I think it's actually been a breath of fresh air air because much like you, it's the same for us when it comes to the discovery of what Luis de la Fuente is all about.

Because even those of us who cover Spain on a regular basis, we weren't entirely sure what version we were going to see.

And thankfully, it's La Furia Roja, it's the Red Fury.

And it has been

dazzling and mesmerizing and exciting and fun and dynamic and energetic and all of these adjectives that you wouldn't use to describe Spain 10 years ago, as you rightly said, or even in the last 10 years.

And he has been able to find this balance between the more senior veteran players with experience and this raw talent that's been coming through and really embracing all of this pressure on the main stage and all eyes and attention on them.

And they seem to be relishing it.

And I imagine he probably is a very good man manager

because,

you know, not a lot of us are too familiar with Luis de Lefuente really as a person because he's only relatively been in the job for a short amount of time now.

So we're all kind of getting to know him.

He does seem as though he's a bit conservative, guarded,

doesn't really

always show necessarily what he's really thinking or feeling.

He's very protective of his players no matter what.

as we've seen with Alvaro Morata, for example.

I think he's very good at unifying the squad and convincing them to really band together for a common cause.

And I think he's also really taken a lot from Luis Aragones, who was a very successful manager with Spain and with Atlático Madrid, a hugely revered figure in Spanish football.

And I think he even showed them, for example, one of the videos that Luis Aragonese was recorded when he was speaking to Spain.

I think it was back in 2008, something like that.

It's now become a very famous speech that he gave to the team back then.

something along the lines of like don't worry we're going to win because we're better than them i can't remember exactly what it was sorry but if he said it much better than i am i can promise you that

i was gonna say this seems like quite an easy thing to say doesn't it i i thought it was churchillian semra yeah yeah i i but also like i don't know if you think this barry he's clearly a great coach because he's getting them to play well like we we are told a lot that we our expectations are too high with international football that you can't expect a manager to get players so rarely through a year and take players out of these clubs where they're coached so meticulously and expect them to play.

And I'm watching Spain going, well, they're bloody well doing.

They're doing it.

Yeah.

I don't know what his secret is, but he's clearly...

got something up his sleeve and they are conspicuously the best team

or have been conspicuously the best team in this tournament.

Having said said that, France did have the chances to beat or to score several goals in the first, or the second half, and a couple in the first.

But,

you know, there was that Teo Hernandez shot, the Mbappe shot,

terrible header from

Meccano, wasn't it?

The People Meccano.

Yeah.

So, you know, that's three good chances.

So they can be got at.

I'm interested to know, Samira, will this success help dissipate the stench of the Rubiales scandal?

Because

wasn't De Fuentes quite an enthusiastic supporter of his when he gave his, you know, I'm not, you have to drag me out of here speech.

You know what?

I was going to mention it and I thought, you know what, maybe I shouldn't, which is why I held back, but you're absolutely right.

He was a staunch supporter of Rubiales.

That was one of the main concerns going into the tournament was how would that whole scandal affect the team?

How would it affect the performances?

Because a lot of the media were not particularly very fond of Luis Belafonte because of what was happening in his relationship with Rubiales.

But that's all gone very quiet because they're winning.

That doesn't sound like football.

Yeah, I know, that doesn't sound like football at all, right?

I mean,

bury my head in the sand.

Exactly.

And I suspect that will roll on if they go into win the final.

I mean, this is the first team, I think, ever that has won six games in a row, all of their games,

at a Euros.

Maybe even a World Cup.

I'm not sure, but definitely at a Euros.

No team has ever won all six games up until the final before.

And I think also, just kind of mulling over the question of how he's managed to do it, I think one of the answers is he's playing to the strengths of what he has.

The two wingers,

Nico Namal.

We should mention Nico Williams has been sick.

He's been brilliant.

And that's the thing.

He's got two very pacey wingers who are so fast, have so much speed, who are brilliant in 1v1s, who can take on two, three, four defenders.

They have goals, they have assists.

So, why not play counter-attacking football?

Why not play with the width?

Why not play going down the flanks, you know, and making the most of that?

And I think that he's been able to make Spain very versatile in the way that they play, and they have so many different options in terms of how they attack.

And he's even made them very robust at the back, too.

Tonight, there was no carava hal, there was no Leonard, so things were not exactly as tight as they have been because of the two very important players that were missing.

But nonetheless, I think that a lot of it has to do with that.

He sees what he has available to him, and he's really playing to their strengths.

Dana Fuente said last September, he did say, I face strong criticism, and what I think of that criticism is totally deserved.

He said, I regret it.

I understand.

Criticism, it's entirely justified.

I want to say, sorry, I made a mistake, a human error, and it is inexcusable.

I side with equality and respect.

I have to improve.

We all do, is what he said last september semi did you did you expect fabian ruiz to be as crucial to this sign because he has been brilliant that was another pleasant surprise i have to say he he's been sensational alongside rodri rodri has been sensational as well which is par for the course exactly i mean you would expect that quite frankly but i i think playing together it's really helped fabian breiz a lot and he's he's shun and i think that's that's the nice thing about this tournament is that there's quite a few players that maybe have underperformed with their club teams or haven't had a great season yet they come to spain and they've been at the forefront of the success so far and he's absolutely one of them yeah and yet philippe it started so well for france didn't it columnoani's header mbappe jesus navas right who

yeah i got an open play jesus navas who is the oldest outfield player to ever feature in a semi-final of a european championship or a world cup um he's older than Yamal's dad, as producer Joel writes.

He looked older than Yamal's granddad when he was trying to get near Mbappe

for that first goal.

But, you know,

he's not as old as Pepe.

Come on.

Yeah, no, you're right.

You're right.

And he looks younger.

But you just sort of thought at that moment, he's having a tough time.

You've got quite a good player who's playing on the left, attacking.

Navas is on a booking.

You're 1-0 up.

This could be the time we see France.

Yeah, and can I quote from my notes here?

Please.

21st minute, all I wrote was, fuck me, Yamal.

And that's literally what I wrote.

And until then,

it was all about, we're doing very well.

Cookerola is being booed by the German fans because of the handball, which was not a handball, which was a handball, which wasn't a handball.

And France were actually playing...

quite well, even though in a very skewed formation,

which was very strange, actually, because you could see how Spain were really worried about what was happening on their right channel with Luqué Arnoldes, who was once, again, by the way, excellent.

He had a terrific tournament, and Kilien Bappé, and on the left-hand side, Jules Condé, who also had a terrific tournament, thought, oh, gosh, it's this guy called Nico Williams.

That's a little bit dangerous.

So it was very, very skewed.

But

I wouldn't say I felt very confident.

I thought that...

the growing into the tournament, which is one of Deschant's specialty, was something that was going to happen in that game.

And in a funny way, it did.

And it's probably because of a lack of

conviction,

composure in front of Unaïs Simon's goal that France didn't take the game to extra time.

And I think if it had gone to extra time, France would have prevailed because Spain did look a little bit leggy

in the closing stages of the game.

And you felt there was more to come.

And I do think that Deschamps, there's one mistake he made.

I think people will argue about his team selection for a long time.

I don't think it was especially wrong, but he should have perhaps changed things a little bit earlier than he did.

I know he changed in the 60th minute, but it was clear that there were things which were not working.

Rabio was not working.

It was just not happening for him at all.

And you needed players like Kamavinga.

And you saw the difference that Barcola did as soon as he came on the pitch.

And you thought, well, we could have done with that a little bit earlier than that.

Sorry, Philippe, as an England fan, someone making substitutions the 60th minute seems mad to me that it'd be that early.

You carry on.

No, I'm just, I mean, I was just wondering if it was possible to do a composite of,

I don't know.

I mean,

I know I go on a lot about Dembele,

but I'm really, I was screaming at my television.

I was going to say, why did he take off Dembele?

I mean,

of all the players.

Because

Dembele is the most frustrating player

in the planet.

You can flip a coin and either you're going to get the most incredible, unstoppable player, or you're going to get someone who's useless.

And sometimes you get both within half a second.

True, that is true.

Which is pure Dembele.

And so you're there thinking, oh, he's beaten one, he's beaten two, he's beaten three, it's fantastic.

And then he crosses to...

the corner flag on the other side of the pitch.

And then he forgets, oh, there's nobody in the box but it doesn't matter i'll cross or i don't lift my head i just cross where there are six spanish defenders anyway but that was my den below rant and it's oh it's over you got very close to saying denbelliers den beleis denbele

i think uh i i i i i i think believe do you think it's is it the end of days no no no no he will no no no he he he's keeping on until 2026 right okay and uh after uh i think this game is certainly not the kind of game that you would say that he it lost we lost it because of the manager.

No, we didn't.

That's not true.

Sure.

It was

very well balanced.

And if we had a terrific game, and especially absolutely phenomenal for the first 45 minutes, it was because there were not just one team on the pitch.

There were actually two teams battling it out at the very, very highest level.

Some of the combinations...

Some of the movements were just crazy.

The speed with which the ball was traveling through super narrow channels from one end to the other was a wonder to behold.

And you would have to say, I hope that Spain hasn't left too much energy in the semifinal because I really want them to win

this competition because it would be wonderful for football if they did.

I'm just wondering if they've been giving this high-octane football from the very beginning.

Is there a moment when, like the great Dutch team of the 1970s, it just goes wrong And especially goes wrong, Barry, against England.

Oh, yeah.

Preach.

We know that's exactly what's going to happen.

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure.

Listen, in 24 hours' time, Barry, we'll be sitting next to each other at Guardian Towers.

One of us will be happy.

One of us will be sad.

We know how this goes.

Where do you put Mbappe on the

inverted commas fraudometer, Baz?

Like, he's obviously one of the best players in the world, but I have seen him in quite a lot of big games.

Not big

mate.

I think here you have to legislate for the fact that he's playing with a broken nose.

You know, that's serious discomfort.

He's not been able to sleep, etc., and so on.

So that, you know, that is a mitigating, a big mitigating circumstance.

Although he did play without his mask tonight and seemed to look a lot happier.

Well, he scored one penalty in this tournament and hasn't troubled too many goalkeepers apart from that.

I don't think he's a fraud.

I don't think he's the non-finisher, Philippe says either, but he at least he helps the finishers with a nice assist tonight.

Yeah, that is.

And yeah, he did provide that lovely assist for France's goal.

He probably should have scored

with five minutes to go when he fired over the bar.

usually puts them away in his sleep.

But as we know, he isn't getting any sleep.

That's all.

Hence the name.

So I don't think Killian Mbappe is a fraud,

to answer your question.

But he hasn't had a good tournament, but he has had a broken nose.

Interesting that him, Kane, and I know Ronaldo's a slightly different case, but none of them have had good tournaments.

Just finally, and perhaps most importantly, Davey says, the other evening, Philippe tweeted that tonight he loves everybody.

Did this include Rabio?

Look, we've done Rabio.

More pertinently, win or lose, how has the French football team using their platform and voice had an impact on French politics this summer?

And is that the real legacy of this team?

We've touched on it before, but we haven't touched on it since the result of the election.

I don't think

you cannot quantify the impact that

what Condé Mbappe, Gonette, all the others

said had.

But it definitely had an impact.

I think it's one of those cases when

you had

these players whom

younger people who have got very serious doubts about their own place in society and what democracy actually means and who feel disenfranchised and they hurt people whom they

who genuinely are role models for them

passing on a very important message and I think it did have an impact and

you know you will have noticed that

the turnout in the French election second round was very very high.

And suddenly people just woke up and realized there's something very important happening in.

And the way they spoke, and they spoke very eloquently, we've spoken about that

already.

And

to be honest, as well, there's one thing perhaps to say, it didn't affect their performance.

You know, the old stick to football thing.

I mean, they can stick up, you know, people who say that can stick it up where the sun don't shine, basically, because it had absolutely no impact.

And I think in a funny way, they played in a more liberated way tonight than they have done before the result of the election.

And that's what I thought would happen.

So they have.

The same for England, eh?

Apparently, it's a politics-free zone in the England camp, apparently.

Oh, apparently, yes.

But

it wasn't in the French camp, fortunately.

We're very grateful to them.

They have been great representatives of the Republic, and they've done us proud both on and off the field, finally.

So,

what can I say?

What else can I say?

Probably nothing more than that.

And it didn't affect their performance.

And

I think, yes, in a way, their legacy will also be about that.

And to be honest, losing to that Spanish team in the semi-final of the Euro is certainly no shame.

Now, while we've been recording,

you guys might not have seen this, but a security guard was running on the pitch, I think to move a photographer out of the way, slipped, and has taken Alvaro Murata out.

No,

two-footed.

Obviously, we don't know if he's in, we don't know.

I mean, you'll see it, he's sort of limping.

And so, we at this stage obviously have no idea if he's going to be fit or not.

Oh, my God.

That would be incredibly, incredible bad luck.

We haven't sent any love to Alvaro Murata, by the way, who was fantastic and who is a great captain as well.

Dare I say that

on the field?

The way the defensive work is doing for Spain is just phenomenal.

And

when you think of the Ávaro Morata we know in England, who was

quite a mournful figure, I think that's the way to describe him.

He was kind of drifting in a permanent mist, like in a Bronte novel.

And now he's walking in the sunshine.

And that's lovely to see.

Well, limping currently in the sunshine.

So fingers crossed, he is all right for the final.

It'll be a terrible way to go out.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll look ahead to England versus the Netherlands.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly, England, Netherlands.

Tomorrow, Barry, how are you feeling?

I'm fine.

I was thinking today, I'm going to have to talk about this game and try and forecast what I think might happen.

And I haven't a clue.

I just have no idea what's going to happen in this game.

I don't know if England will be rubbish again and somehow scrape through.

Will this be the game they finally deliver a performance that we think they should be capable of, but apparently aren't?

Or, you know,

the Netherlands are very beatable, but on their day, they are also a pretty decent side.

This could be a really good game.

It could be a really terrible game.

And I have no idea who is going to win.

I think I have an idea, but not for any logical reason.

I just think England are destined to get to the final of this tournament.

Sky are reporting that Luke Shaw is likely to stay on the bench, even though he's fit and ready to play 90 minutes.

And Kieran Trippi will keep his place on the left, Philippe.

So there'll be another sort of 45 minutes of me yelling,

there's no width, there's no balance.

So are we going, do we know, is it a three at the back or a four at the back, Max?

I don't know.

Or a five at the back.

I think a three

at the back.

Ten at the back in the 90th minute.

We don't know, do we?

We have no idea what's going on.

Do the players even know what's going on?

I mean, that's probably more important, right, is to know if they know what's going on.

Because it doesn't look that way.

I guess they knew a bit more.

In the last game, they looked slightly more like they did.

I wonder, Samra, who would the Spanish prefer?

It's a very good question.

I think they would prefer England.

Wow.

Really?

I do think so.

I could be, of course, terribly wrong about that.

The reason being is that, historically speaking, there's been a lot of beef between the Netherlands and Spain.

Not really sure why, but from a football point of view, they've always been

extremely physical, dirty, aggressive games, especially on behalf of the netherlands

so the spanish really dislike the netherlands because of how they play to give you an idea they basically take a book out of how germany played against spain the other day which is to completely disrupt the flow to disrupt any kind of build-up to disrupt any kind of counter-attack i mean obviously spain now is not the same that it was 10 12 years ago whenever i i think the last time

Off the top of my head, I'm trying to remember if the last time they met each other was in the World Cup in 2010 or something like that.

but it lived long in the memory of a lot of spanish fans that the netherlands in particular have just always really

gone all in in terms of trying to take out spain so i think they'd be looking to avoid that at all costs and the fact that england have been really underwhelming and they have a lot of talent.

It's a good team.

You look at the squad, it's a good team.

They could definitely be performing at a much better level and playing much more attractive football than they are.

So if Spain played like they did in the first 45 minutes today against England the way that they have been playing, then I think it will be probably much easier for them to handle than perhaps what might be thrown away from the Netherlands.

Is this all about de Jong's challenge in 2010?

Or as producer Joel writes, is this about the Netherlands Protestant revolt against the Spanish in 1572?

I don't know, which is.

It could be both, you know, I mean, one could have led to the other.

The thing is that you could say about the Netherlands the same thing that you say in a way about England.

I'm looking at this Dutch team.

Verbregen, the keeper, is one of the best young keepers in Europe, in the world, actually.

And I think people are realizing that.

You look at their back four,

which has got so many good players that Miki van de Ven can't get in there.

You look at them and midfield, where they have Renders and Schouten have been absolutely terrific all through the tournament.

Because they're missing a lot there, aren't they?

And Coop Miners amongst another.

Yes,

they're missing, but they've got Jon Simmons, Barry's favorite, is there as well.

You think that's pretty good, actually, isn't it?

And then Kodik Gakpo is a decent player, isn't he?

And Memphis DePay actually can be very dangerous.

And Stephen Bergwein is not that bad either.

Memphis Debay is like the Den Belay of the Netherlands.

Oh, he's yeah, he's scoring more goals, though, because let's never forget that Den Belle has only scored one goal for France.

It was against Gibraltar, and that's that's a fact that he will have to do something about at some point in his career.

But I look at that, and I,

of course, there's Ronald Kuhn on the bench, and some people might say that's not necessarily an advantage.

Even the Dutch will say that's not necessarily an advantage.

Apparently, they're really going after him, they've been rinsing him.

But they have got on paper an absolutely terrific team, one of the best they've had for quite a while.

So, hmm,

i'm nervous now and they've got a big vow they've got a big a big man up front who who can move i mean harry kane was in the press conference today which i mean is a way of saying like we're obviously not going to drop harry kane i remember barry actually at the start of the tournament you know early on we were saying complaining about harry kane and you were like this is ridiculous you know the idea but i don't know if you think it's less ridiculous now given that he can't seemingly can't move Do I think dropping him would be ridiculous?

Yeah, I mean, or less ridiculous than you thought it would be.

Oh, definitely.

Yeah, well, it seems quite obvious that he's got an injury, probably the back injury, which hampered the end of his season.

And

he's,

well, we were chatting to Dean Ashton on the radio the other day, and I asked him, you know, would you ever, as a player, have gone to the manager and said, look, I'm not fit enough for this game.

In the interests of the team, I think you should pick Ivan Toney or Ollie Watkins.

And Dean Ashton said, absolutely, no way on earth would any footballer ever do that.

Never.

And I was a bit taken aback by that because it does seem quite selfish.

And I have made the point before

repeatedly, I think, ad nauseum.

And I probably was so sorry I'm going to make it again.

But I...

Yeah, you don't need to do it anymore.

Okay.

Yeah, but we know Harry Kane was injured in the Japanese file.

I'm doing it now.

The Dutch, despite being a very good football team, Philippe, have been

experiencing travel chaos

because of the trains.

Something obstructed the line.

So they had to get a flight.

And, you know,

was it an England fan with a flare up their backside?

That's what we need to know.

Kuhman's cancelled his pre-match presser.

Producer Joel's saying, I hear Tom Heaton stop the train a lot, like that's seen in the railway children.

That means nothing to me, but maybe someone will enjoy that reference.

uh a word on the david squires cartoon have you seen it barry yeah um the ivan tony uh panel is great where he celebrated ivan tony's no-look penalty by trying to draw ivan tony without looking at the paper and it actually looks a bit like a picasso if we're being honest yeah uh rob says is barry gonna do his part to sell this beef with barney ronay or is barney gonna have to publicize it all on his own this is barry v barney uh gareth southgate how are we feeling You weren't on the last pod.

Barney called you out.

Yeah, I heard that.

Barney and I seem to be largely in agreement on

this adversarial fight we're trying to build up.

Except that I think it can be true that Gareth Southgate is a really good England manager, right up there with the best of them.

But it can also be true that they should have beaten Italy in the last Euros final and it's his fault that they didn't.

That's all I that's so.

If Barney wants to strip off his shirt and go bare knuckle over that, I'm happy to go out of Holly.

Maybe we'll try and get you two together on Friday or something before the final.

But I think Barney and I are probably nearer to agreement than he thinks.

That's not what we want.

Yeah, sorry.

We're trying to build

Barney.

I can't be angry with Barney.

Who's going through then, Semra?

That's a good question.

Let's just say England because we're talking to England out there, aren't we?

Well, we have a global audience.

50% of us.

Nonetheless,

I'm still going to say England.

Okay.

Philly?

Yeah, England.

Absolutely.

Barry.

England.

No, I don't want to.

I don't.

That makes me hear that.

Max, it's your turn, eh?

No, I'm firmly on the fence.

Yes, Philip.

Are you familiar with what the Romans call a double hex?

Yeah, I don't want that.

I want someone to hear that.

That's what you just got.

I have a bright orange t-shirt in my wardrobe, Max.

Would you like me to wear it in tomorrow just to add some atmos to our group watching?

Who's with us tomorrow?

Lars and Langdon.

So that is a

good, you know,

you've got Lars, you've got a Norwegian with you, and there's two proper Englishmen.

Maybe I'll go more Cockney than Langdon by the end of it.

We'll find out.

Anyway, that'll be for part two.

Any other business in a second?

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office, like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The remarkable paper pro move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game, you bring your AI game.

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Welcome to part three of the the Guardian Football Weekly.

Craig Bellamy signed a four-year deal to take charge of the Wales national team.

Here is Ellis James.

We hope here is Ellis James.

He's doing the voice note right now, so I haven't heard what he's saying, but he's got such a lovely voice.

I don't really mind what he says.

Here's Ellis.

Well, Craig Bellamy has been appointed the new Wales manager, and I am genuinely really excited.

I've

just watched the first interview he's given as Wales' boss to the FAW website.

It's about 10 minutes long.

It's really, really impressive and he says all the right things.

He obviously was managing with Vincent Company at Anderlecht and at Burnley.

All the journalists I know who know him and a lot of the players I know who've played with him say that he's an obsessive student of the game.

He's obsessed with football tactics.

Even as a player, he was going abroad to watch European teams and you know, assess how other countries were doing it in different shapes and formations.

He's he

could be a really impressive tactician, or that's certainly the hope.

However, it is Cray Bellamy, and Chris Wavin wrote a really great piece for the BBC Wales website where he's talking about fairy tale endings because his playing career ended and he hadn't qualified for a major tournament.

And someone asked him about that and said, You know, would you have liked your fairytale ending?

And he said, Fairy tale endings, life isn't like that.

Sometimes, when you read your daughter a bedtime story,

you'd be doing a justice by saying the prince does die,

which made me laugh out loud.

I'd forgotten about that.

If you want to watch a really entertaining clip,

watch the interview he gave after Wales lost to Finland 2-0 in 2009 because he does not pull any punches.

I'm really hopeful this could work.

He is one of the most committed players in a Welsh shirt I've ever seen.

And I know, obviously, that doesn't necessarily translate to being a good manager, but I certainly don't doubt we'll get 100% commitment out of him.

He came so close, that group of players he was in,

came so close to qualifying for Euro 2004.

And he was still playing for Wales till 2014.

I mean, we qualified for the first time in 58 years a year later.

2015 is when we qualified for, you know, the following summer's Euros.

So he came really close as a player as well.

But now, fingers crossed, he'll be taking us to an international tournament as a manager.

I really felt that we needed to get rid of Rob Page.

That has been done.

And I think that this is a very positive appointment, even if I am a little bit scared of interviewing him.

Thank you, Ellis.

I don't know what you said.

I'm not going to listen back because I'm quite sleepy, but I'm sure it was great.

We'll finish on a couple of vasectomy-based emails.

Jack says, Hi, Max, Barry, and everyone.

I thought I'd drop you a quick email regarding my unusual vasectomy situation.

What a great band they were.

Given the relative intrigue and focus the show gives to this procedure every other week, I'm due to have my second vasectomy on Friday.

I'm one of the very unlucky men, approximately one in 2000, whose first procedure failed.

And it has taken me approximately two years to pluck up the courage to return to the chopping block once again, so to speak.

I'm acutely aware that if England make the final this Sunday and go on to win, that my celebrations will be somewhat compromised.

I can't remember whether getting to a pub is either practical or possible post-op.

And would frozen peas remain frozen for extra time and penalties?

Thoughts from the panel are welcome.

Jack, could Jack be the first person to listen to Football Weekly while having two vasectomies?

I mean, why is he asking us for vasectomy advice?

He's had one.

Well, it didn't work, did he?

I wonder how he found out it didn't work.

Well, I was thinking the same thing.

I mean,

was there a product?

I presume that's the only way you'd find out, isn't it?

His missus had to answer a few difficult questions.

Maybe a piece of advice is that maybe you should move from a frozen piece to broad beans because they're slightly bigger, so therefore they will take longer to defrost.

So maybe that would be...

Good idea.

That was well thought, Philippe.

Or maybe baby ocra, you know.

I mean,

right.

Baby Ocra, though we're getting bigger and bigger.

Who's got who's who opens their freezer and finds baby ocra?

It's my question.

I've got baby ocra in the freezer.

Well, of course you do.

Of course you do.

James says, dear Max, having been wearing boxes since as long as I can remember, I recently found myself having to purchase some briefs for my upcoming vasectomy.

I can't help but feeling that Football Weekly is missing out on an opportunity to sell some vasectomy-related merch.

Also, given the doctor's advice of self-love post-op to clean the pipes, you could package up some Football Weekly branded briefs with a pack of Glendenning-sponsored tube socks.

There you are.

Thank you, James.

We can't get away from it, Barry.

I can't help it.

We get good material.

You brought it up.

It's your fault.

It will continue.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thank you, Semra.

Very well done.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much.

And thanks for having me.

It's been fun, guys.

Total pleasure.

Cheers, Philippe.

Thank you very much, Max.

Thanks, Baz.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Christian Bennett.

We'll be back tomorrow.

Come on, England.

This is The Guardian.