Portugal’s penalty prowess sees them progress and France do just enough - Football Daily

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Portugal squeezed past Slovenia on penalties to make the quarterfinals.

Diogo Costa, the hero for them.

Three saves in a row, saving Ronaldo, who did score in the shootout after missing one and bursting into tears in extra time.

There was Pepe's slip, Schesko's miss, Slovenia defending brilliantly, but it wasn't enough.

And then to France, Belgium, an absolutely pitiful excuse of a football match.

Thankfully, Carlo Moani put us all out of our misery with five minutes to go.

A scrappy deflected goal.

The perfect way for this to end.

But they're through to the quarterfinals without a goal from open play.

The Belgians, well, they weren't very good.

We pray for better tomorrow.

We'll look ahead to Romania, Netherlands and Austria, Turkey, do a tiny bit more England if we have to.

Answer your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Filippo Claire.

Bonjour, Sava.

Savà, Monsieur, Max.

From the Racing Post, Mark Langdon.

Hello.

Hi, Max.

And hello, Barry Glendenning.

Bonjour.

Andy says,

so are we still shit, but Portugal are also shit?

Are Slovenia not as shit as we thought?

This tournament is becoming like the usual suspects, but instead of Kaiser Soze, we're trying to work out which team is the most toilet.

Thank you, Andy.

Thomas

said to me, Do you believe Portugal should be subbing off Ronaldo just so I can screenshot it for freezing cold takes?

Thank you.

Anyway, the penalty shootout finished about two minutes ago, Barry.

And I think it's fair to say, and you know, we don't have to be objective, it's fair to say that I believe this panel were hoping Slovenia would win the shootout.

I can only speak for myself as a man who has

a modest sum of money on Portugal to win the tournament that I desperately wanted them to lose this game.

And I'm really gutted that Slovenia couldn't quite get over the line after a brilliant performance.

You know, we saw all the very worst of Cristiano Ronaldo tonight.

He's a self-absorbed narcissist.

He's selfish.

his uh performative

nonsense uh on the pitch you know arranging his face into this mask of torment and anguish each time he missed a chance uh and then checking on the big screen to make sure that it was being broadcast to the wider world uh his insistence on taking

every single free kick they won in a good position, even though his record is little short of diabolical.

I think Gary Lineker said it's, well, I think now at the end of the game, it's 59 taken in major tournaments, one goal scored.

The only thing that surprised me about this penalty shootout is that he went first rather than last to, you know, take the glory.

But as it happens, he got a small bit of the glory because he didn't come to five penalties.

And yeah, I feel really sad for Slovenia because they were brilliant and with a bit more composure from Benjamin Sesco

who missed two wonderful opportunities and they might well have won the game.

Yeah.

It's interesting with, is it interesting with Ronaldo Felipe?

And we've touched on this before and by talking about him you're just, you know, you're adding fuel to it.

But the coverage is so thawning.

And I understand it because, you know, he's good for clicks, right?

Every single half-time picture from every broadcaster, every newspaper, everything is a picture of him looking a bit miffed.

And then it does become all about him in a way because he misses that penalty, which is such an extraordinary moment.

It's a brilliant save from Oblak.

I was going to say it's an absolutely phenomenal save from Oblak.

But yeah, it's this kind of

perverted relationship that he's had with the media and the fans for a very, very long time.

And which, of course, has developed even more in his twilight years,

where everything has got to be focused on him.

It's this kind of weird echo chamber.

And in fact,

the very joy we took at his tears, you know,

just to tell the truth, I was laughing, is also part of the same circus because the best response to that would be to be, to ignore him, because it doesn't matter.

And anyway, it doesn't matter in the end, does it?

But he doesn't matter.

He was the weak link in that Portuguese team.

Because the one thing we should also say is that Slovenia were just phenomenal, but they were phenomenal until against a Portugal team that was not crap like other big teams have been.

They actually produced some really good football.

Nuno Mendes was absolutely fantastic.

Jugo Costa, my goodness, in that penalty shootout.

Is that one of the great performances in a major tournament, in a penalty shootout?

Probably.

And you could say that about many other Portuguese players, except Cristiano Ronaldo, but we've spent already more time talking about Cristiano Ronaldo than we have spoken about, I don't know, Josip Bilicic, whose story is absolutely phenomenal, and for whom you feel really, really sad that he's coming back to Maribor and to the team, to the Slovenian team, couldn't have this kind of triumphant conclusion.

Or if you think about Biolin and

what's his name again, Dikusicius,

in central defense, who were absolutely fantastic.

The amount it's not just the way they defend it, but the generosity they had when they were counter-attacking and the quality of their play and

the screams we probably all screamed when Cheshko was there against the keeper.

And I was screaming, go round him, go round him, you've got the time.

There's so much space.

And he didn't.

And Dugo Costa, well, pulled out a great save.

So Diogo Costa is the Portuguese hero of the night.

He is.

And actually, the the first two penalty saves are both brilliant market and the third one is a you know a really nice save for a keeper but you've got to go the right way but the first two are brilliant

yeah they they are i do uh share philippe's sort of anguish for illichic and just i don't know just sort of thinking don't miss like don't let him be that be the one that that misses and yeah it wasn't a miss it was a great save as you say and you know um

costa has has saved i think he saved roberto martinez um because i'd stood up for martinez in the um pre-tournament uh preview and said that i felt he got a rough ride really for for belgium but his performance on the touchline tonight was um not that that you would expect of a coach at sort of managing at this level i mean the team i thought portugal played well for for an hour and he's then looking what's not quite working in this team and there's this really obvious thing standing up front that's not working and he takes off vitinha who had been i think probably probably along with Joe Cancelo Portugal's best player in in in the first hour drops Bruno Fernandes deeper the whole team just breaks because they haven't got control of the midfield anymore I mean cross after cross after cross like it's not a a good way to score a goal across like it's the sign of a desperate team and again there's only one player in that Portuguese team that wants crosses the rest of them want to play intricate passing and you just feel like with Giotto up front in in that forward front three, like how much better could they be?

And for Roberto Martinez to not make that call any stage,

just get going back to the Seshco chance, though, as well.

I am actually glad that Pepe's mistake like that didn't sort of end Portugal's tournament.

I know, um, you know, the ultimate shithouse, and but he's 41, and I do, I wouldn't still good, right?

He's still, and I wouldn't have wanted that to have happened to him.

So

it was really

just just an awkward game, really, where

Sesh goes through, and you do want him to score for many reasons, but I didn't want Pepe to lose it like that.

And so

it was a great game.

Slovenia, all of their back four were booked, which was, I think, in keeping with how physical they were.

And B.O., I thought, at the back, was fantastic and didn't one of many that didn't deserve to be on a losing team.

It's not unlike me yelling for Kane to be substituted yesterday, Barry.

And it's not like they don't have options, right?

You're right.

Jotter could do that they've got Gonzalez Ramos who came on in the World Cup and he's got a hat-trick didn't he and then he had to start the he's they sort of had to start him got Joel Felix who's just sitting there doing nothing Martinez has options but he has options I think it was an act of cowardice to not take him off I think it's I don't think he should be in the squad let alone the team because he's

he makes wants to make everything all about him And it's spreading, because when Raphael Leo was taken off,

he threw a little mini hissy fit and then had the little glance up to make sure it was on screen.

And if Martinez, I mean, I was criticising him in the pre-tournament pod.

Mark made a compelling case for him and I went, yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

And now I think, no, I was bang on.

They may well go on to win the tournament, but I do not think Cristiano Ronaldo brings anything to that party.

You would say with Martinez, in comparison to other big sides who aren't playing well, and I think you touched on this already, Felipe, is that actually there are, you can see the shapes for Portugal.

You can see the attacking where you can't as much with France, and you certainly can't with England.

With Portugal, there are, you know,

they've got, you know, what they're sort of trying to do at times.

And they, I actually thought Leo actually started the game really.

He faded a bit, but he started really well.

You know, Martinez is doing something with this team, or he's freeing them at least, even if he's not coaching them.

Yes, I think the problem is that he is, you know, he's an excellent manager.

He was certainly,

when he was in England, he was certainly an excellent club manager.

And I think that many Everton fans have probably, given what happened after him, have changed perhaps their opinion of what he did with the club.

With Belgium, he was very close to actually achieving something massive.

You just get the feeling that he just likes a little...

something.

I think he wants to be liked a little bit too much, perhaps, which explains why Ronaldo is in the team.

Because are you going to be the guy who's going to kill the father,

the favorite son at the same time?

I mean, he'd be liked in lots of other places.

He'd be absolutely adored and loved and respected.

And I was actually surprised by the fact he's Spanish

and he was singing a Portuguesea, the Portuguese national anthem.

How many national team managers, foreign national team managers, can you think

who do this?

Does it strike you as being very strange?

Not

a kind of performative

act?

I would just say it's a courtesy.

You think it's a courtesy?

Yeah.

Okay.

I think if for some in some bizarro universe I became the manager of, I don't know,

England.

No.

No, no, no, no.

There's a a line.

Let's go with,

I'm definitely going to pick one that doesn't have any lyrics, but you know,

Chile,

I'd at least try and, you know, mumble along.

You do like John Redwood trying to sing the Welsh national anthem.

That's what I was, that's what I was thinking.

Yeah,

it's one of those that, I mean, I suppose you...

you do feel for whoever loses the penalty chat, but just the way they defended and as well, Mark, they did.

Slovenia broke with purpose in comparison to the other slovenia games i've seen and that england game where they they didn't seem to do that as much they really when they broke they they seemed to have something it was a bit chaotic but but there was you know there was sort of method in it yeah i mean it was uh the football you like mate it's 4-4-2 they pumped it forward through through our black and just they had run us beyond i mean spora is limited in sort of you know his ability maybe compared to say seshko but he throughout the tournament just kept running in behind every single uh time Serenia midfield was always looking for that pass and I thought he did very well and yeah

they did and

I think that they were encouraged by sort of you know Portugal were pushing I mean Cancelo and Mendes were they had the you know play meant to be a back four but those fullbacks were playing almost like wing backs so they Portugal were desperately trying to win the game and I think that Slovenia did fancy their chances on the counter-attack and yeah it was sort of a gallant underdog performance and they had lots of what you need from that in terms of the defensive spirit and they worked hard and they were organized but they they didn't just sit in that they they did try um to attack and that's probably why we've sort of enjoyed their performance i did feel like they did that against denmark as well up until a point but uh definitely in the england game um they didn't maybe that's just because england are so good max as was alluded to well yeah and when you talk about 4-4-2 442, Mark, you know, it's not just the formation, but it's also the distance between the lines.

It's not as if it was a 442, which was over 10 yards in kind of depth and asking

Portugal to come and smash them.

No, they were keeping to their shape remarkably well.

And their levels of fitness are crazy.

I mean, is it the Alps?

Is it the air?

in Slovenia, which is so good that they've got those massive lungs and they're able to run like this?

Well, they've a couple of fairly fit fit boys in the Tour de France as well, haven't they?

So, you know, those lads are fairly fit too, Roglich and Pogacher.

Yeah, I think that's Barry.

I saw an interview with Spora before the game against Denmark where

I think they got a dart ball

in the Slovenian sort of camp, and he was saying he, you know, he likes playing FIFA, but he wouldn't play darts because it was a pub sport.

And so, yeah, he clearly, yeah, he clearly sort of believes in those endurance ones.

I I don't know.

Maybe.

Do the Slovenian players have to take on the Slovenian equivalent of John Cross and Feynman others?

I wonder if Luke Littler could do Tour de France and Pogasser could, you know, try and hit a nine-dart finish and see who ends first.

Sort of what the biathlon is in a way.

It's a sort of summer biathlon, cycling and darts.

We get Barry Hearns and we could make millions out of this.

Round a Velodrome, jump off the bike, hurl a 180, get back on, down to double one, and then you've got to go and do, I don't know, some reperchage or whatever it is.

Anyway, Portugal, France, then.

We'll talk about France in part two, which, you know,

we have already recorded, Philippe, but now you know you're playing the Portuguese.

How do you see that?

I see that for once,

Deschamps' legendary luck has left him

because

I do not see this French team as we saw it and as we've seen since the beginning of the tournament

going past that Portuguese team, which remains one of my favorites for the tournament.

Well, yeah, I mean, they have actually shown quite a few very good things, and again, let's insist on that.

They qualified, you know, we all wish that Slovenia had gone through, but it's not a bad Portuguese team.

It was not a bad Portuguese performance.

It was just a very, very fine match of football.

And we haven't had many in those um knockout rounds so let's rejoice because let's be absolutely fair to our listeners we were a little bit worried after the first game of the day uh as to what the length of this podcast would be and what we would say in it uh but thankfully they saved our bacon there's always material there's always material and we actually have had a couple of questions about that mark going actually is this euro shit um and i thought it started really well like i seem to remember at the start going, wow, these games are great.

Apart from England, this is all really exciting.

And it has in the sort of the third match day, a lot of sides knowing they needed a point.

And now, this last 16, it hasn't sort of come to the last 16 normally comes to life.

You've got enough games that there's lots of games happening, and

there's something riding on it, but it hasn't sprung into life yet.

Not been great games, been great moments in sort of a lot of the games.

I would say

Bellingham overhead kick, the Ronaldo missed penalty, Seschico's missed chance.

You know, those are just big moments.

And that, to me, is what international football is now.

I think we get a bit misty-eyed about great tournaments.

It's just because you weren't here having to work on it.

The great tournaments are the one where you're in that place getting covered in beer and you're enjoying it.

That's when you loved the tournaments.

Oh,

I don't know.

Are you calling me wrong there, Max?

I don't think I'd ever like being in one of them places having a pint poured over my head.

But

it's about moments.

All of these international tournaments are, you don't think back to great games.

It's always, there are moments in tournaments that you remember.

And so I see that sort of this tournament being very much like that.

We've got a couple of great quarterfinals already lined up.

I mean, France against Portugal, Germany against Spain.

If the tournament is going to get going, I mean, now is the time.

People complained about the Champions League sort of was a slow burner.

And then, you know, that really sort of kicked into life in the latter stages because most of the big teams had got through and you ended up with some good games towards the end so um i'm hoping that we get the same with the euros this is a good point you make isn't it because you remember the moments and if there are enough good moments then the montages are good and they're the things that you watch again occasionally you know and so then you think oh italia 90 everything was amazing about it um just a couple there were some i mean there were lots of tweets about ronaldo um joe saying anyone else praying ronaldo doesn't score so we don't have to

we don't have to hear Guy Mowbray reaching for the sock live on television.

It's not

a fair on Guy

who is brilliant.

I've no problem with Guy Mowbray at all.

I've met Martin Keon and I like him.

The lads in the BBC studio seem like nice fellas.

Shearer, Lineker, Mika Richards.

But the BBC coverage tonight was disgracefully sycophantic.

It was

nauseous.

Yes, I don't disagree with you.

Just a lot of coverage about him.

And I guess you do the same with Messi when Messi's playing.

I would imagine, even though he used to play with him, if Roy Keene had been on Pundit Duty,

he'd have made short work of it.

We did get a question.

We've been praising Slovenia a lot.

And we got a message from a guy called Patrick saying, look, hi, Max.

I'm from Slovakia.

And my country or any player from my my country very rarely gets mentioned on my favorite podcast.

That's why I had to listen to today's part twice because I couldn't believe that Slovakia was mentioned only once when John mocked England's game style as if they were playing against Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldinho in the last 20 minutes.

Because in reality, it was only Slovakia.

For me, it really felt like we were Brazil, at least in the first half.

I really hope you mention it tomorrow, because if not, I hope Southgate will be your manager for the rest of your lives.

That's from Patrick.

And it is a fair point.

Like, actually, Slovakia, they didn't, I don't think they played as well as Slovenia did tonight.

But for an underdog, they did actually play really, really well.

And they totally deserved to go through Philippe.

Yeah,

they certainly did.

And I would disagree with you.

It's a completely different register.

I mean, what Slovenia did, Slovenia, I mean, to quote that Martin Khun, that word that Martin Kuhn used about 12 times, they were gallant.

Yes, they were really gallant.

But

they put a real shift in and all these sort of things.

Slovakia were different.

Slovakia actually put together some passages of play, which were just ravishing.

Absolutely, the kind of stuff that makes you go, oh, God, that was beautiful.

All first intention, first time pass, deviation, flicks from the side of the boot, progressing through the, I mean, with such freedom, such imagination.

They were an absolute joy to watch.

They were everything that England were not, and which is why I still feel sick in the stomach when I think about what happened.

Yeah, yeah.

LeBocca had a great game, didn't he?

And no, you're absolutely right.

And in our myopia, and, you know,

we failed to, you know, to, and we are quite UK-based.

It's sort of understandable.

But thank you for bringing it up and our apologies.

And now we have done you a favor.

Please let us not.

I mean,

I can't go from Southgate apologies to wanting him out.

now at this stage of the tournament uh but you know one day someone will play with a handbrake somewhere nearly near the bottom.

Right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we will attempt, and we already have attempted, to get, I don't know, 15 minutes out of that terrible match between France and Belgium.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California lottery.

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So then, then France won Belgium Nil, Kolo Moani's 85th minute goal, although it's been credited to poor Jan Vatongen.

Philip, felicitation,

you did it.

And how?

With such class, such panache,

such imagination.

Yes,

it was absolutely sublime and sublime exhibition of non-football.

It was,

I think.

I look at my notes, and

one of the first things I wrote was one-way traffic in a dead end.

And

that's pretty much how it felt.

It's very strange because France actually

created a number of half-chances and even proper chances, but yet the game never caught fire.

Even though, you know, Méignon had to make a couple of very good saves and Castells were not really threatened because for some reason, every single French striker of the ball decided they should clear the bar.

It was an odd, odd one.

It was not very particular pleasant.

I'm sure that Didier Deschon would be absolutely delighted because he loves nothing better than winning ugly.

And he won, and it was ugly.

So there you go.

I mean, there's plenty to say.

I mean, it's like his team selection to start with, Tedesco's choices as well.

I have to say, you know, much as France is going to take flag for the way that they didn't really catch fire, but they won, I have to say Belgium, I just don't understand exactly what it was all about because when I saw the team sheet, I thought, well, that's it, at long last.

Jérémie Decoup, Rome Lou Lou Caku, you know, up front, open da.

So we've got the three guys we wanted, Kevin De Bruyne as a number 10.

And in fact, what we saw was a Belgium that was probably even more negative than they had been in the previous games.

And then he suddenly on the 80, was it the 88th minute?

He suddenly remembered you had this boy called Charles de Catalera and whom he decided to throw on the pitch for no good reason when he could make absolutely no difference, when he should have been part of what Belgium tried to do from the very beginning.

But, you know,

Belgium got what they deserved and France got what they wanted.

That's not exactly,

I mean, what else is there to say?

Yeah, well, I don't know, actually, but we've got to at least sort of pad it out for a little bit.

Just, you know, know, we're recording this before Portugal-Slovenia.

If that's a dud, it'll only be a five-minute podcast.

You were on the minute-by-minute, Barry.

I wonder, we were just saying before the game,

I think, and obviously because I'm so invested in one and not in the other, I think the England game was a better football match.

Of the four sides, I would say Slovakia were the better.

It doesn't always have to come back to England, but I'm trying to think, was this game worse or better than that game?

This game was terrible.

Well, you're asking the wrong man, Max, because

I mean, the England game, I spent the last 15 minutes just pacing up and down my living room and shouting at the telly.

Now, that's not really practical when you're doing a minute-by-minute report, as I was for this one.

But

I would say the England Slovakia game was higher quality in terms of entertainment, but by God, the bar is low.

You know, this

was

dire, and I was dreading, absolutely dreading the prospect of extra time.

And, you know, there was so little happening in this game.

I had time to delve into

my inbox for reader correspondence.

And there were people who were sort of playing along with the gag.

You know, I was just calling it as I saw it.

I was saying how boring it was.

how I was dreading.

And then you get the odd person,

the Deborah from the States, you know, saying, oh, you're getting paid to watch football.

You know, stop complaining.

And is it because you're a bitter Englishman?

And I'm no,

nothing could be further from the truth.

But

yeah, I was just relieved it ended after 90 minutes or 92 minutes because I couldn't have handled the extra added timer.

I think France were probably worthy winners, but Belgium had a few chances.

I thought, I think it was after an hour, the Belgian manager brought on Mangala, which allowed Kevin De Bruyne to play higher up the pitch.

And that was their big problem.

He was too deep.

Lukaku was too deep.

Doku

did his best, you know, was significantly better than he was in the game against Ukraine, but it wasn't good enough.

And France...

I don't think you'll get a better bit of analysis than what Philippe said.

Belgium got what they deserved, and France got what they wanted.

Yeah, Martin says, as their three goals so far have come from own goals and penalties, will France be the first team ever to win a tournament without one of their players scoring a goal in open play?

Mark, I mean, what do we conclude from a French point of view?

That it's just,

you know, they've just done enough, but God.

I was trying to remember if Greece did it in Euro 2004, but I mean, there was a lot of set plays, wasn't there, for Aristeas that would just rise up and head them in for 1-0.

I think, as far as, first of all, I mean, surely that is the perfect minute-by-minute blog, Barry, where nothing much happens.

So you're not frantically typing away and it ends at 90 minutes.

So, I mean, you've got.

No, but it's just the time goes so slowly.

If it's a good game, you don't notice, you know, it just goes in a heartbeat.

But this, it's just like, oh, crikey.

horrible.

I think from France's point of view,

I think they've just got one too many

defensive midfielder in the team.

I mean, too are many.

Well done, Braffo.

Really good.

That's better than the game.

That unintended pun was better than the game.

And he seemed to have most of France's shots.

He was running onto them from the edge of the area.

And Golu can say, Rabio, they're protecting the defence well, but it means that Griezmann's playing probably wider than he wants to be.

And I just feel feel like France are strong enough to just play with two of those sort of defensive midfielders, get Griezmann off the front man, Lincoln play like he did at the World Cup.

And you're then able to bring in an extra wide player.

And I just think that would sort of enable France to attack better, not be that much worse defensively.

They're so good, France, in terms of the sort of players on paper, that they really don't want these games to be tight and low scoring and decided by one moment.

Because if you're the better team, it's much more advantageous for it for the game to be stretched.

Um, and you know, had De Bruyne the shot

gone in a couple of minutes earlier, they you know, France could well have been going out as it was.

Um, you know, they then got the deflected goal.

But um, I'd like to see France attack more.

I don't, I don't believe that they will, but it would um

they've got the talent to do it.

Yeah, we we complain about a double pivot, and you've got a triple pivot, uh, Philippe.

Um,

were you surprised about Griezmann?

You know, in Qatar, we saw him play that role, sort of slightly deeper in midfield, really dictating everything.

And he was pushed out, sort of attacking wide right, kind of today.

And it just feels like a waste of Griezmann or not.

Yeah, even though he can play in any position, I mean,

he's a true great, but it's totally insane to have Tromini, Cante and Rabio together in midfield and Griezmann playing in a kind of

at the beginning, I think it was supposed supposed to play off

Bappé and Turam, I suppose.

But that doesn't quite make sense because Turam, who was

god-awful,

he was shocking.

I've tried

to be to make use

Philippe's head.

Philippe's head almost came through the screen.

He was,

I don't know how to describe that.

It's impossible to be.

I mean, he was so bad.

It was embarrassing.

And

so, who was going to provide the width?

I mean, Jules Condé, to give him his credit, actually tried more than he does usually.

And that's the other paradox.

If you go

individual performance by individual performance, Mike Menon had a terrific game again.

William Saliba was majestic at times.

Athoté Hernandez was excellent.

Probably his best game of the.

That tackle was great.

The tackle was great, but he also offered an awful lot going forward.

More than he had done so far.

Cante was Cante.

Tromini

is not quite at the level he was, you know, in Qatar, for example.

And the thing, it's almost as if they were trying to reprise the great hit

and literally and figuratively.

And Tromini from outside the box.

Yeah, we've seen that in the past.

And

he tried how many times?

Three times?

And the ball.

It's like three or four all over the bar all all all over the bar and and you go and uh rabio is not going to play in in in the quarterfinal which is going to give by the way deschamps a bit of a problem he's going to have to rethink that but the selection the team selection was was crazy um as as one of my friends said i won't claim responsibility for that but he said it was uh italian football but eight and a half fellini like yes eight and a half defenders on the pitch and it didn't quite make sense it never clicked.

When Colom Weni came on, it was a bit better, but nobody seemed to know what quite to do.

I mean,

it's so utterly frustrating because you think that there are players whom we've hardly seen during this tournament who could contribute an awful lot more.

I would imagine that with Rabio out, we're going to see Dembele back on the right wing.

Alas.

And I'm praying for Kingsley to see a bit more of Kingsley come on.

I don't understand why this beautiful player is not more used by Diddy Deschamps, but that's the champ for you.

But, you know,

he got, again, he got what he wanted.

And

Belgium, I mean,

they were so disappointing, I must say.

Because France,

there were gaps to pick there.

There were things which didn't quite work.

And Belgium didn't really try out until very, very, very late.

Yeah, Paul Watson says but Belgium are the only team whose players look like they're having less fun at Euro 2024 than England.

They look like they're on a team bonding trip with work which they couldn't get out of which in a way I guess they are he says.

Larry you wanted to make a point.

Well no I just want to ask your opinion what do you reckon Kevin de Bruyne will make of that is is

he wasn't didn't do much in this game.

Is that because he just had a bad day at the office or because he's been shackled by an incompetent manager i can't quite figure it out or maybe it's a mixture of the two what what does our panel think mark i think he would have understood that assignment they were playing france and if belgium would have gone for it i think they would have got ripped apart really i think that would have been the worst thing that they they could have done um so i actually understand the belgium tactics to a point you've got 37 year old votongen that would have definitely struggled to have kept up if they would have pushed higher up the pitch.

And I think the Belgian really struggled in the early games to actually get the ball to De Bruyne in the first place.

So, by dropping him deep, I suppose that the theory was that you get him on the ball and he can try to dictate play from further back.

But

it didn't work out because they didn't create any chances.

And I do agree, Barry, I think Tedesco was out of his depth.

And every time he seemed to make a change in this tournament, the team got worse from what I could tell.

particularly going back to the opening game against Lovakia.

And maybe that's why Southgate didn't make all those changes because he was throwing on players just everywhere.

You know, he was the complete opposite of Southgate, and the team looked a mess by the time he'd finished with them.

And so

he tried to be patient.

And

I think that they played a sensible enough game.

I know Philippe disagrees, and maybe their strength was going forward, and they should have gone toe-to-toe with France.

But I tend to think that's what France would have wanted from Belgium.

And you maybe would have fallen into the trap.

I think you're probably giving France more credit or for their willingness to attack Mark than they would have.

And the thing is, when I'm looking at this Belgian team, I looked again, but no Tillemans.

I mean, the one holding midfielder who can actually link play between the lines because that's not Onana's strength.

Onana is a very good player, but he's more of a destroyer than anything else.

Then you've got Karasko,

who's, I mean, I don't want to insult him, but his football brain,

let's put it that way.

If there was a Nobel Prize for football brains, he wouldn't get it.

Okay.

That does sound like an insult.

If brains were dynamite, he couldn't blow his nose.

Well, I'm putting the bar very high.

I'm talking Nobel Prizes here.

I understand.

Kevin De Bruyne, who might get it,

was put in a very strange position.

It's like you didn't quite know what to expect of him.

And it meant that they played back so much.

They were inviting France to come and

go at them, which they did.

And in fairness, despite the mediocrity of the play, France has had over 20 attempts at goal, which is quite astonishing

in 90 minutes.

On that De Bruyne question, someone sent in a question, and forgive me, I haven't seen it, so I can't remember who asked it.

About like De Bruyne, about the Man City players and saying, look, none of them are playing as well, right?

And is that because we actually...

Akanji, Akanji, Akanji.

Okay, Akanji.

It's like

it actually sounds like a word to interrupt someone, doesn't it?

Akanji.

Like, halt, you know, Akanji.

Okay, I will.

Okay, Akanji aside, you're right.

The attacking players then, maybe, and actually Kyle Walker, who we didn't really talk about yesterday, who had, I think, probably his worst game in England shirt yesterday.

Isn't that just because you just can't do, you know, it's just so much harder when you're not playing with the players that you play play with all the time, who are all of such an elite quality.

Or is there some, or maybe they're just totally exhausted, Mark?

I don't know.

I wouldn't go for the exhausted one.

I mean, De Bruyne, for instance, have missed enough of this season to not come into the tournament to be shattered.

If anything, you'd feel like he'd be kind of at the peak of his powers, really.

He kind of grew into the season as it went on.

Definitely feel like the city are a system team, and that's why it can take a while to understand what Pep Guardiola wants.

and if you take that out then sort of the individuals don't always shine as brightly so I mean there might be something in that yeah yeah I could see that I mean you could also argue though that Phil Foden is not playing in a position that he absolutely loves

Kyle Walker and that balance on the right hand side I mean Kole Walker's usually very good he had a he did have a bad game and Stones is still trying to get used to that partnership with Gay and he's not actually being asked to do what his real strength is which is to to step out and play out.

So

maybe there's reasons behind some of those dips in performance from the city players.

Bads, what did you make of Kinin and Bappe?

He's obviously going to stand out because he's wearing his mask

and it's quite attention-grabbing.

But

he was trying to make things happen.

Sometimes I think he was trying to...

too hard because there was one stage, I think shortly before the goal, somebody played a ball across the Kunde played a ball across the face of the Belgian penalty area and it was beautifully teed up for Griezmann and Mbappe sort of charged in out of nowhere and and took a snatch shot took the ball off Griezmann's toe more or less and blazed it over the bar so you know he showed plenty of willing

He needs to realign his crosshairs.

And at one point, I can't remember exactly what happened, but I think ali mccoist on i tv comms

kind of suggested he might have pulled out of a header there because he was afraid of of hurting his nose um

and yeah so i i don't know if that's correct or not but yeah it's a kind of a measure of how poor the game was that even even alistair was struggling to muster any enthusiasm on co-comms and he's he's the world's most enthusiastic man isn't he i think that this tournament this game and this tournament in general i've been reminded that Kirin Mbappe is many things, but he's not a good finisher.

And that it's he scores loads of goals, but he's not a good finisher.

You've got the Deschamps paradox and you've got the Mbappe paradox.

Yeah, it sounds mad when you say it out loud.

Somebody will clip that up and put his numbers next to you and say, Who is the.

Well, the numbers are phenomenal in terms of the numbers of goals scored, but he certainly is not what you would call a clinical finisher.

You know, he's not a Lewandowski, for example.

And

he missed quite a few chances.

There's a lot of what we say Dishet in French.

It's almost like debris left, you know, after the game.

There's a lot of things you look around and said, oh, there's all the things he didn't do quite well.

And it was underwhelming.

But I think that maybe there's a reason to hope is that we haven't seen the real Killian Bappé yet.

We haven't seen him really clicking with Antoine Cruisman.

Maybe we'll try, and maybe we see a bit more of what he can do with Barcola, which I thought he got on pretty well with.

But other than that, you know, it's basically job done, and not all jobs are particularly pleasant to do.

But that won't matter to Didier at all, because he'd rather win ugly than lose beautifully.

It's the antithesis of Platinese France.

Deschance France is the antithesis of 1982.

Trade, trade, trade, trade, boff.

Come to D.

Exactiment.

Okay, that'll do for this part.

We'll be back in a second.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So the last two games in the round of 16 are Romania Netherlands and Austria-Turkey.

Let's start with Austria-Turkey because this Barry is...

There's a lot riding on this being the exciting game, given that this last 16 hasn't had that many thrillers.

Yeah, and

I,

on the evidence of what I've seen so far, I would expect Austria to win quite comfortably, but you know, they could have a bad day at the office.

I'm actually struggling off the top of my head to remember much about Turkey's performances.

I think I missed one of their games, and um that's the insight people come from,

yeah, exactly.

Uh, I've been hugely impressed with Austria.

You know, Turkey sort of flown under my radar.

There was that magnificent brawl at the end of their game with the Czech Chetia,

which have they actually got any players who aren't suspended?

That would be my question.

Because I think every single one of them got booked in that game.

So,

yeah, if they can get a team out, I'd give them a chance.

But

I would expect Austria to go through.

Just to mark your car, Barry, Turkey beat Georgia 3-1 in quite a decent.

That was a good opening game.

Then they lost 3-0 to Portugal, and then they beat Czechia 2-1.

So they're the results so far.

Mark?

I'm looking forward to the game like everyone else.

There were seven goals when the two teams met in the friendly in March.

Six of them went to Austria.

So

there's some room for improvement from Turkey, whose only goal in that game did come from Shalonolu, who's one of those Turkish players, suspended.

It was a sort of close enough game.

It was 1-1 after

just before half-time.

Gregorich got a Patrick either side of half-time and Baumgartner also scored in that route.

And I think that's what Austria can do.

And we've seen that now in this tournament.

They can get on a roll and make things very difficult.

Whether they're able to sustain that energy, I suppose, throughout the tournament is going to be a question for Ralph Rannick to answer.

But he's rotated the team well.

They've played some of the best football in the tournament.

They've been one of the more exciting sides that we've seen so far and i would expect them to beat turkey that's the interesting point though really in that not that much was expected of austria maybe you know from from rangnik himself but not from the whole continent and when they played netherlands you know not many people really fancied them to win that game against france it was the same now the it's it's all changed isn't it um they're expected to beat turkey just wonder how they they deal with that pressure and just from a kind of numbers point of view their defensive xg is not great.

Uh, they conceded a lot of chances in all of the games they've played, but it's that risk-reward, um, sort of the anti-deschamps.

How many teams can we think of which have had a great tournament from the first game on to the final?

Oh, what in what in the history of the Euro?

Yeah, because that's the thing with Austria.

I'm fearing the dreaded, you know, hex of the team that does well in the group stage.

Feels like a very Dutch thing to do.

I feel so many tournaments, the Dutch have have blown teams away and then just got gummed but maybe a holland 1988 then maybe holland 1988 was a team that did well from the very beginning to the very end but that's going back a long time and i don't think we should um

i don't think we should underestimate turkey at all they've got some very fine players but where do we stand yes in terms of suspensions or is it too much to ask turkey have got two players out they've got uh one of their centre halves uh whose name escaped me and shalinolu is also um suspended i guess for these four sides in this quarter of the draw, like they're never going to have a better chance to get to a semi-final.

I mean, that's what Netherlands, Romania, Austria, and Turkey will be thinking, Berry.

Yes, they will.

And I would give Romania, I think in particular for Romania, because I would give them every chance to beat the Netherlands side who have not particularly impressed me at all.

Yeah, first knockout stage match at a major tournament since Euro 2000 for Romania, Mark.

How do you see this?

I mean, on paper, you suggest the Netherlands.

Yeah, Kadin is the other Turkish player suspended.

I disagree with Barry.

I think the Netherlands will win and win comfortably.

I haven't been as downbeat on the Dutch as other people.

Maybe that's because I wasn't expecting that much from them at the start.

And so you can't be disappointed if you kind of got low expectations entering the tournament.

But I felt like they beat Poland, I thought, fairly easily in that opening game.

Then got the draw with France with a controversial disallowed goal, and then lost a high-scoring game to Austria where

they both made changes.

And I think that sort of Dump Freeze coming back definitely improves them defensively.

Just look at the Dutch team, and I think they've got very good defenders and very good forwards.

And it's just whether that midfield functions well enough to keep them in games.

That would be the doubt.

when they go up a level.

There aren't that many teams in the bottom half of the draw that have maybe have got that level.

So

I wouldn't be that surprised if they went a long way, actually, maybe even all the way to the final.

Right.

On the Fallout from the England game, driving class says, How annoyed would you be if you went all the way to Germany to watch your friend play a game of football and he made a lewd gesture at you, particularly if your friend was known for being extremely mature?

Yeah, this is the news that UEFA is investigating Jude Bellingham for a gesture he made following his late goal against Slovakia on Sunday.

UEFA says it's looking into a potential violation regarding the basic rules of decent conduct by Bellingham.

He was seen grabbing his crotch in a kind of Diego Simeone way, I would say.

Abrinaldo's done it a couple of times.

He said on social media, an inside joke gesture towards some close friends who are at the game.

Nothing but respect for how that Slovakia team played tonight.

Could be a one-match ban, unlikely, more likely to be a fine.

I sort of think if it is a ban, you know, if Southgate is forced to only play one of Foden or bellingham i think it will be a good thing you know but you know don't don't add me to the freezing cold any more freezing cold takes uh for this i i think um it would be harsh to get banned for something like that i think you're right something and nothing luke says listen to yesterday's football weekly max barry and john bruin having a conversation about southgate that is eerily similar to what all the democratic pundits were having about Biden after the debate, which is a worry for Southgate, isn't it?

You know, maybe that's why he hasn't made any substitutions.

He's fallen asleep.

But, you know, less about the end of humanity and the end of the world.

This is just football, so it's okay.

Mark, I just wanted to

put your

views on England yesterday.

Not really, Max.

No.

No.

Yeah, I mean, I thought it was absolutely terrible.

And

as a Spurs fan, like, you might sort of...

feel like I'm

would say this, but I mean, winning is just not that important.

I just don't understand why, like, this obsession with got to win, and it doesn't matter how you do it.

Like, I mean, football is supposed to be entertaining and fun, and you know, just all the things that the current England team isn't.

Uh,

really annoys me that the players on the pitch are having a go at each other because they know it's absolute crap, and yet they then go in front of the media and have a go at the supporters for saying it's absolute crap.

Which it feels like double standards to me.

Like, the decision to not, the

um decision not to make the subs was was crazy i mean you get away with it because somebody scored an overhead kick that's not that's not um a solution great tactic

the one thing is i spent much of today doing this pointless exercise of trying to pick the england team and i i actually can't i can't fix it i i keep going well if we put him here or them and i'm no that's not going to work um and yeah i've i've almost given up I mean, they're in the quarterfinals, and I've almost

just had enough.

So, just to be clear, did someone from the FA get in touch and ask me to do this?

Was it just for your own amusement?

Not that journalistic endeavour, but at Euro 2000, actually, the FA did get in touch with me when I was the office junior at Race and Post.

Somebody from the FA

rang up and said, Can you fax over all of the sort of race cards?

Because it was day sort of, it wasn't on the internet.

The team just want to have a friendly few bets.

So can you get all the race cards over and all of the match previews with the odds?

And so I did that and I faxed them over to their hotel.

And of course they went out early.

And if you remember, there was this...

kind of big chaos afterwards about the gambling score that had gone on at Euro 2000.

So I think I inadvertently played a part in that early exit.

So yeah, not this time.

It's been 24 years since they've got in touch, but I'm available if they want me.

It could be a few retrospective fans looming on the horizon.

Yeah, Phil Neville and Owen Hargreaves will not be selected for the next game.

Uh, Barcel Jim, our friend, of course, says, Does Barry have any more dietary tips that feature human body parts?

Did enjoy.

I don't know if it counts as the ultimate form of mansplaining for Barry to advise pregnant women what to do with their placentas.

But yes,

another gym another gym got in touch to say would that even be a step too far for mark or you know like is you know is deep fried placenta on the menu for you mark

no it's not actually i i i um i wouldn't follow barry's advice actually on that one i wouldn't follow my advice on any matter

yeah

but we have found where mark draws the line on on meat-based products so that's good to know uh right that'll do for today uh thank you philippe thank you you very much, Max.

Cheers, Mark.

Thank you, Max.

Thanks, Baz.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.