Delight for Demiral as Turkey are through - Football Daily

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

What a save in injury time from Mert Gunock.

It was Gordon Banks and Pele and so the old dark horses of Turkey beat the new dark horses of Austria who conceded from two brilliant Ardagula corners.

Mary Demerell had only scored two goals for Turkey before tonight.

The first five minutes were ridiculous in this game.

The game was never going to keep up with that.

But Turkey defended heroically for the last 20 minutes or into the quarterfinals.

Also, a relatively straightforward win for the Netherlands against Romania.

They created so many chances after Cody Gakpo put them one up.

You started to wonder if Romania might sneak one, but eventually two late goals from Doniel Marlin sealed it.

There's that playing in hair nets, looking like Alec Baldwin.

Some more pregnancy advice requests for Barry.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Nikki Bandili, welcome.

Hey, An.

Hello, Barry Glenn Denning.

Hello.

And a pod debut for Mark Pugach.

Jim says, isn't Mark busy enough with the day job to be hanging out with you, reprobates and Nikki?

Hey, Pugas, how are you?

Max, I'm good, thank you.

I'm very happy to be hanging out with you, reprobates.

It's keeping me out of the pub.

That's probably a good thing.

Yeah, but I was going to say a few people did say message to say is mark hosting so don't like don't get any ideas here all right

now i i will back off buddy i promise you

and if i get if i get too forward just tick me off okay absolutely right but we're here for your hot your strong opinions that you're not allowed to give on the television because you have to give way to those pussycats roy keen and and poster cogli right let's start then with well that moment in the last minute of injury time but austria won turkey two two goals for demerl gregoric scored in the 66th minute and then turkey just had to defend and defend and actually there weren't that many chances mark until that save in injury time it was extraordinary i mean it was one of those moments where you know we're all wherever we are whether you're watching on our own with people you know when you just scream at the top of your voice you know that that is a great moment that you're going to remember austria pushing and pushing and pushing i think in a funny way and i don't want this to sound like i'm trying to take away because it was a brilliant save i think in a funny way that it'd been raining so hard the ball zipped off the the pitch.

I think the ball, by zipping off the pitch, got a bit higher than it might have done otherwise.

Do you see what I mean?

And therefore, I think

if it had kept a bit lower, I think it'd have been absolutely stuffed.

But it's amazing reflex to turn it around the post from there.

I mean, absolutely fantastic.

And I'm in Berlin now.

There are, in Berlin alone, there are 200,000 Germans with Turkish heritage.

That's in Berlin.

I think it's, I looked it up literally the other day.

It's something like 3 million across Germany say that they have turkish heritage in the 50s 60s and 70s a lot of turks came over to work in the ruhr in the west you know where brussy dortmann play and gelsman kirk and all that and it this place is it was is nuts whenever turkey play but this weekend in the quarterfinal when they play in the olympic stadium in berlin it is it is genuinely like a home match when turkey play here at the euro so turkey at home turkey will be at home to the netherlands in berlin at the weekend and it'll be a magnificent occasion and who's to say that they won't win that as well brilliant yeah yeah you're saying if it was a a slightly drier euro

if it had been if it had been if it had been yeah if it had been leon or saint-etienne i think it might have sneaked in under his hand yes thing is barry i i i still i know what pooz is saying but i i just couldn't believe it hadn't gone in yeah it was it was remarkable it's one of the best saves i've ever ever seen um you know when a player strikes the ball and they say, you know, I knew as soon as I'd made contact it was going in.

Well, I bet Christoph baumgartner knew that it still didn't go in because he did nothing wrong it was a perfect header and an absolutely sensational save i don't know how he did it i i i must confess i'd never heard of mr gunak before this uh tournament but um that was incredible and he you know his all-round game was good but that was just

unbelievable yeah and i suppose nikki we were sort of waiting right those last 20 minutes we were austria were pushing and pushing and there was just so many like every Turkish player just heading it out and blocking it.

But they didn't have any, they didn't, we were waiting for that moment, I guess.

Yeah, it's a brilliant game, I want to say, but it was a strange game as well.

In the time, certainly, it felt like Turkey had just sort of chucked tactics out the window and were just going with some vibes and seeing where it took them.

And it took them to some amazing places.

I mean, the fact that Mary Damorau scores both their goals, someone who has in all of his seasons, I think he's only once hit two goals in a season before.

He's hit one a couple of times on on the seasons to get two in one night.

And that's, um, of course, then brings you back, or brings back to mind Lilian Turam in 1998 scoring two against Croatia in a semi-final.

And I had this quote from him that when he was talking about those two goals he scored, you know, he called it like his Miles Davis moment.

He said, basically, your body just takes over.

And I feel like Turkey's body just took over at times in this tournament, in this game, sorry.

Demoral, it wasn't just the goals he scored.

Demaral was on fire.

He was defending defending just like it was where he was meant to be out there in the rain and loving every moment of it.

And then you get to that moment at the end.

And I don't know whether to use the surname because I think he had Mert on the back of his shirt rather than Gunak, but that save, it's just

it's just instinct.

You haven't got time for it to be anything other than that.

It's what your body wants to do is to reach out

and make that gesture.

And I guess it's training as well.

It's what you spend all that time training to do.

But I just feel like this was Turkey's, this was Turkey's Miles Davis night.

Yeah, Richard says, hey, Football Weekly, daily.

I sat down to watch the Austria-Turkey game thinking, God, they've built this up so much.

It's obviously going to be dull as dishwater.

Nil-nil, 50 seconds in and Turkey score.

Within five minutes, Austria could have scored twice.

I'll keep my cynicism to myself next time.

And Poogie, it's right.

Like, sort of regardless of what happened in the middle of this game, it's like bookended by these moments of ridiculousness.

And the Euros needed it, didn't it?

Because

we've had some stodgy last 16 ties, haven't we?

Yeah.

You know, I was listening to what you were saying about France yesterday.

I presented that game, and I was really excited about it.

It was an absolute stinker.

England was exciting, obviously, for what happened at the end.

Spain were great to watch, but in the end, they won pretty easily.

So we actually needed this, didn't we?

We needed some drama.

We needed the pouring rain.

We needed the atmosphere.

You know, we needed the Turkish.

Half of them were suspended before the game started.

Half of them are suspended for the quarterfinal now, aren't they?

They're literally, if you're available and you're fit and you're not suspended, you're playing.

I think it was really good

for the Euros, and just everything about tonight and the pouring rain.

Football's always better in the rain, isn't it?

You can slide tackles, the ball zips off, players start their tackle five yards away, say to the brief, I was going for the ball, I couldn't help it.

It's the conditions, it was absolutely everything that we have wanted for the Euros.

We've probably been waiting for for a couple of days at least in this round.

Yeah, and the delivery from Ardagula for both corners that the goals come from, Baz, are so good.

I mean, he's the the superstar in that team.

Yeah,

well, Kalinoglu may beg to differ, but

he wasn't there, I guess.

He wasn't playing tonight, but

his.

I mean, there are quite a lot of corner takers who can't take corners very well.

But his deliveries were brilliant.

Just put it into an area and, you know, someone will hopefully get their head or a foot to it.

Austria had a few decent corners of their own, some great set-piece deliveries.

And yeah, I I think Mr.

Merritt Demerell sort of put paid to the notion that maybe the Saudi pro league's a farmers league and anyone who plays in it shouldn't be at these Euros because that's where he plies his trade and

he wasn't too rusty.

I had only seen one of Turkey's previous games, and that was the one they lost, they were well beaten in.

So I was a bit surprised by how good and how swashbuckling they were.

Yeah, and actually, I suppose a lot of the talk has been, been, Nikki, about how swashbuckling Austria are and about their sort of high press and this rangnik sort of making a club side.

But you can't really press if you have the ball, right?

And that's sort of what happened, right?

Yeah, of course.

Goals change games, and to concede, as early as they did completely shifted the dynamic of what this game might have looked like otherwise.

As I said before,

at times I couldn't work out more in the first half, in the second, because in the second it really became a defensive, just parking the, not parking the bus but certainly a very deep defensive effort but in first half i couldn't quite tell what what turkey were doing other than allowing themselves to play with freedom and i think it crossed my mind shalanoglu is a player i i rate very highly but it crossed my mind that almost without him there it was well let the kids play because the front half of that team if you ignore the defence and the keeper the front half that team i don't think anyone was older than 25 you've got a pair of teenagers starting up front because it's uh yildis on the left and gula through the middle and then there was yilmaz who's who's not that much older on the right so it was it was a really young group, and to some extent, just embracing that side of themselves seems to have served them really, really well.

Actually, this is a bit of a jump, I just wanted to come back to you because Mark mentioned it earlier about Berlin and the Turkish-German link.

Jilbiz, I'm fairly sure, was eligible for Germany, and that was one of Incinzo Montella's successes, was to persuade him to play for Turkey.

And

yeah, I just thought that link was worth bringing in as well.

Yeah, he was born in Germany, wasn't he?

Yeah, I mean, he was born in Germany.

You know, he's obviously not alone in the Turkish team, whether themselves are born or obviously their parents.

But no, absolutely, absolutely.

He was.

I was just thinking, Max, we've now got a situation where you know, you've got one of one of Turkey, the Netherlands, Switzerland, or England are in the final.

Don't start talking like that because now I start thinking, oh, no, no, I'm not, I'm not saying it from an England point of view because I don't want Barry to take his cap off and throw it on the floor and walk out.

I'm just saying it's an interesting dynamic.

You know, it's not four names that you would throw in to a hat obviously the the dutch would be um and to say oh you know they will they will be finalists of a european championship yeah but you can just feel you can just feel the easy side of the draw merchant saying now it's the time to turn up and and i can't help it barry there is part of me we got criticized for bringing everything back to england it's very hard during a tournament the little part of me thinking oh you never know now do you i don't know if that you know if you i mean if you actually if you watch we'll talk about this a bit in part three but if you look at how teams have played then you don't give England a chance, but then you think, oh, you know, these are all sort of scratchy teams.

You're still in it.

You're still in it.

So, you know, you can win.

Yeah.

And I've certainly still got the fear.

Don't worry about that.

Were you disappointed with Austria today, Barry?

Or no?

I mean, it's just two teams who played pretty well.

No, I thought they played brilliantly.

I don't think they did a whole lot wrong, really.

They just came out on the wrong end of the scoreline.

There weren't any particularly poor performances.

They could have scored more.

They just didn't.

And I mean they were only denied at the death by the stuff of miracles really.

So I wouldn't say they did a whole lot wrong.

I think it comes back to an issue that I think defines these games a lot in knockout tournaments and again international football.

Having a reliable goal scorer makes a world of difference.

Austria played some really nice football in this game and

at times

we're really moving it very well, doing all the things they've done well in the other games so far in this tournament.

But you've still got Markov Nartovich at the front of the formation who hasn't been reliable at sticking the ball in the net, certainly recently.

These things matter.

If you've got someone at the top of the pitch who can do it for you consistently, it's going to help you overcome a situation as unlikely as Miriam Demeral has scored twice against you.

I mean, Nikki, you've watched him at Into a Land.

He's never scored goals regularly.

Whoever he's played for on Altovich, you would never back him to be your man, you know, at the moment.

I mean, he's got an extraordinary collection of medals.

He had a patch at Bologna where, relative for Bologna he was doing very well and that prompted move to Inter.

But no, he's not the player you rely on for he's got an extraordinary array of medals vis-a-vis ratio of minutes on the pitch for those clubs, hasn't he?

I mean, it's quite unbelievable.

Yeah, yeah.

And

that was the story in itself for Inter at times this season and the lack of depth for them up front.

But

lots of international teams have this issue.

There's lots of teams that have it.

Indeed, Turkey, as much as we were just talking about Guiller and how promising he is, they don't have that player up front who they were looking at in this game and going, That's the guy who'll get the goals for us.

They found the goals, and in the end, Austria didn't.

Dylan says, Has this tournament had the most shots from the halfway line in history?

I feel like they're supposed to won a game.

And I was thinking that was Arda Gula, wasn't it, Baz, who had another go.

It does feel like this is happening a lot, yeah.

And quite a few of them haven't been too far away either.

Uh, these long rangers for uh when people spot the keeper off the line, but

have a goal.

I couldn't take it that far, so

you'd have to lay up.

Yeah, I definitely need to lay up to the edge of the penalty area, maybe.

Yeah, long may it continue.

You love to see it.

So, look, well done to Turkey.

They're through against the Netherlands.

Before we move on, a word on John Dylan, the football writer who worked for the Express and the Mirror, amongst others, who's died at the age of 60.

The Football Writers Association tweeted desperately sad news that our friend, colleague, and former FWA committee member John Dylan has passed away.

Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.

A fine journalist, gone too soon, Paul Hayward, saying his passing is a terrible blow.

He was the funniest friend with an original mind and an eye for the absurd.

He loved writing sport and the life it gave him.

We're just holy fools on the road to redemption, he would say, sending us all up.

Thoughts with John's family.

I know Mark and Barry, neither of you knew him well, but your paths had crossed, Mark.

Yeah, I mean, you'd offer,

very quickly, of course, you get to know who is who in a press box.

And there was a sort of, I don't want to say a West Ham clique, but they all supported West Ham, didn't they?

Martin Samuel, John, I think probably Rob Shepard, I think, pretty sure of them.

Certainly all, you know, East London boys.

And you knew when you came in that these were people who were great journalists, great story getters, really good writers and enjoyed their lives.

And that was, you know, when you're coming into the business,

you look at that and you go, okay, right,

this is what it is.

This is what it's all about.

There are a lot of miles in this job.

You've got to be able to keep a sense of humor.

You've got to have stamina.

And you've got to get on with people around you.

And it was obviously, you could tell straight away the esteem in which he was held and I actually probably underestimated that seeing the tributes today from Paul Hayward and Ian Ladyman and people across the whole range of of the newspaper world really underlines that yeah we send our thoughts to his friends and family and that'll do for part one uh in part two we will discuss the netherlands victory over romania

Hi pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

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So then, Romania 0, Netherlands 3, Cody Gakpo and Doniel Marlin with 2 late on.

Barry, you were on the minute by minute.

I thought this threatened to be a really exciting game.

And we've been yelled at a lot for not saying everything is great in this Euros, but I thought, you know, this

started out being quite exciting, this game.

I really enjoyed it, actually.

I think the

result simultaneously flattered the Netherlands and didn't flatter them at all because they should probably have won by a lot more, more, but they only went 2-0 up in the 84th minute.

So there was always a chance and the hope that Romania might nick a goal and equalize and bring it to extra time, but it didn't happen for them.

But they certainly gave it a good lash.

can leave the tournament with the collective head held very high.

It was a really impressive defensive performance from them.

And it was a very good performance from the Netherlands if you're prepared to look past their at times astonishing wastefulness in front of goal they they on a good day they could probably got 10 or 11 here but it's a testament to the the Romanian defense and some of the uh profligacy of various Dutchmen that that they didn't and I thought uh the lesser spotted January Tottenham signing Radio Dragerson was particularly good for for Romania and it's slightly unfortunate that it was his error that led to the second goal.

Yeah, Mark, it was a lot of Romanians just hurling themselves at the ball, but you started to feel, well, hang on, maybe this is, you know, if the Dutch keep missing these chances, something could happen here.

Arsen Benger came out with a lot of really memorable sayings in his time, didn't he?

The one that I remember more than any, and I quote...

probably once every three days is when you're only winning one nil it's like sitting on an electric bench and that's how you felt didn't you Because you're thinking they're so superior here, the Dutch.

But Memphis Depay should be at Wimbledon, really, shouldn't he, with his headband on rather than playing in the Euros.

I mean, there's a reason he didn't last very long at Man United and he slightly shuffled around the place, is it?

Because he's trying to, he's no Van Baston or Van Nistelroy or Van Percy, or let's let's not roll off all the 15 strikers who probably would have made it Barry's eight or nine nil.

So you always think if they're going to miss so many chances, are they going to get one Romania to make this you know embarrassingly level going into extra time?

But I really enjoyed, I mean, I was listening to what you were saying yesterday.

One of the real highlights of this Euros has been the performance of, you can call them two, tier, two, three, whatever you want to call them, you know, which is Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, you know, who led against Italy and Croatia.

It's been so good to see their support, their colour, but also their play.

You know, how they've played.

They're not just

whacking it to the front man and running off them.

So I was really happy to see how much it's meant to the Romanians at the end there with their fans and so forth.

But for the Dutch to be in the quarterfinal the colour they bring because it's so close obviously the netherlands to to germany it's going to be astonishing seeing them quarterfinals and who knows semi-finals and further mark why do you hate georgia and in particular sorry celebrity listener guru

you're quite right you're quite right because they were their captain listens to this and you've just insulted him has there been one podcast since this was discovered where it hasn't been mentioned that georgia's captain listens to the podcast i i was watching the game barry uh with guyskamentietta Mendieta.

We were doing it with us on ITV, and I was like, there isn't a team probably in the Euros who counter-attack with more pace and purpose and intensity than Georgia.

They were just, I mean, they completely ran out of legs, didn't they?

Because Spain probably played better than anybody here.

But they were brilliant.

So, Barry, you're quite right to upbraid the new boy on forgetting Georgia.

Yeah.

And all their excellent wine in Tbilisi.

Next time you're with Geiske Mendieta, could you ask if he remembers the moment during the Soccer and Glory years where Mendietta was handed a Vienetta with no explanation and he, I think he looked incredibly confused, but it became quite a running

running gag for us.

He was very polite about it, but I don't think he knew what a Vienetta was, but it made us very happy.

Cody Gakpo, Nikki, Chris says, I watch Gakpo every week with Liverpool.

Sometimes question if he's ever played football before.

Why is he suddenly telling the Miroslav closer?

Yeah, he scored three at the World Cup in Qatar.

He's already got three this tournament.

I must say I've forgotten the previous two.

But that's some record.

Yeah, I think international football has always been its own animal, hasn't it?

That things happen in international football that don't happen in club football.

I think the games are generally

I think defences are generally a little bit more open in international football and so the sorts of players who can do things individually to exploit situations, I think is it's sweeping generalizations, but tend to find those opportunities a bit more available because because teams have less time to train together, so anything that requires positioning together with someone is harder to do, whereas anything that requires being, as Cody Gakpo is, extremely quick and extremely able to beat his man, that sort of skill set, I think, has a bit more value.

This game specifically, I thought it was really interesting because actually, for most of that first half, it felt like the Netherlands were really pushing down the opposite flank and they were rotating the defence and getting the extra men over there.

And Denzel Dumfries was very to the fore.

And maybe, again, that's almost why it was so available for Gakpo when they switch all of a sudden and you've got him running at you and doing that part of what he does so well.

It looks so effective.

But

I guess it's lots of things go into it, Max.

I watched Liverpool a bit this season.

Certainly, I'm certain that other people in this podcast watched them more.

But my impression was he played much more through the middle for Liverpool, whereas here he's out on the left, and perhaps the spaces that he finds are different and something he's more able to exploit.

But yeah, international football is its own animal.

There's always been some players who thrive a bit more in this than they do in their club sites.

And nice for Doniel Marlon Baz, who had a terrible time in the last Dutch game to finish that one off.

I mean, he scored two, but he took the third brilliantly.

Yeah, he had a shocker against Austria.

Hacked the ball into his own net, missed a sitter.

I think he got taken off.

I was surprised he wasn't taken off sooner, to be honest.

And then when he came on in this game, he missed another very good chance and he messed up a pass to

Gatpro, I think, when the Dutch were on a very promising counter-attack.

So I was half expecting him to get hooked again.

But

he,

you know, turned things around, you know, reacted quickly to score when Gakpo pulled that pass back to me.

He couldn't really miss, could he?

And his second goal was superb, just cantering upfield with the ball after, I think Simmons played him.

chopped inside two chasing defenders and a nice low finish into the bottom corner.

I'll be honest, I was surprised to see him and Joey Veerman come back on the pitch as substitutes in this game after,

because Rodal Kuhlman, who isn't slow about pointing his big finger of blame publicly,

he really tore into Veerman after that Austria game.

And

I thought Marlin had played so badly that there was no way we'd be seeing him again.

you know

there's obviously uh

you know a way back if you if you seriously displease Kuhlman.

He presumably trusts his players.

He didn't just have to cut in field.

He also had to negotiate a couple of trainers in the penalty area.

Yes.

I've never seen that before.

I was watching the replay.

I was going, but those are trainers.

They're not football boots.

Sometimes you see a boot, but that's not a football boot.

It hasn't come off a player.

What the hell is it doing there?

Is it the Wizard of Oz?

It's, you know, someone's clicked their heels together and a person has just vanished into thin air.

It was quite Sunday league, wasn't it?

Isn't that normally a sign that, you know, if there's trainers hanging off a telephone wire, it means it's a drug dealer's house.

I mean, I believe so.

I mean, I'm not a great expert in purchasing drugs.

I once did

for, you know, Inside Out on BBC One, it's sort of after the one show, like surprising stories from your area.

And I once did,

they got a secret camera in a shirt for me and asked me to go and buy drugs on Camden High Street, right?

Which is really like, I'm literally like, can I have some drugs, please?

Like, I'd absolutely know.

And also, the camera was a bit like,

you know, in The Simpsons where Homer Simpson's trying to secretly record something.

So he puts a turban on and has a camcorder.

Like, I was wearing a shirt up the side of a tent, and I went up to a man and asked for some drugs.

And then he came back with a sentence, which I didn't understand a word of.

So I said, I'm just going to go over there and talk to my friend and see if we want them.

And then I ran away.

But anyway,

there were no trainers in a tree there.

I just saw somebody who looked quite like a drug dealer.

So I don't know.

It's the correct answer.

I don't know.

But I think you might be right.

But it didn't look like any of the Romanian defense were trying to sell some weed at the same time, thinking we're out of the tournament.

I might as well make a pretty penny.

They are Dutch.

I don't want to make it.

I don't want to make it.

I need to get rid of this before we go through costumes tomorrow.

They were either

trying to sell weed or sell hair nets after whatever Arty was doing early on.

Yeah.

I mean, we have a lot of questions about that.

Yes, Chimmer says, has a player ever played dressed as a packaged vegetable at a Europe?

Or is Yanis Haji the first?

Silva says, why did Haji look like Ina Sharples?

Which is one for the kids.

It was a great look, Mark, wasn't it?

Well, I missed the first minute as you do something.

So I turned it and I went, what, I mean, what is going on?

Then, of course, immediately I'm thinking, well, he obviously is allowed to play, but

what sort of protocols do you have to go through?

You know, where people break their arms.

Was that, I think, there was a World Cup final, somebody played with a cast, and then they have, you know, they have to go through all those protocols.

Or in the old, you don't see people playing with big chains anymore, do you?

They're not allowed, but they used to be allowed.

Big bouncing chain and a cross, which might, you know, whack you on the head and so forth.

Joffre Archer type.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, I can tell you, I can exclusively reveal, Mark, that in one of the opening exchanges of the match, where in Romania sent a cross into the Netherlands box, Denzel fries dumprees accidentally caught him with his elbow and he had to get i think he had to get a couple of stitches is that what it was and did it like

a lettuce fell out and then it was like

carry on um i i wonder nikki do you think van dijk doesn't look i'm i'm pick picking holes here but but i i know he was a fault for a goal in a previous game he gave the ball away once like van dijk doesn't look quite the van i don't know how early this happened and you know it's another sort of liverpool based question but i just wonder if he's not the kind of absolute solid rock that you think he is in this Dutch side.

I don't know how to answer this one because I don't feel like I necessarily share any of this sentiment that this was a game that was close and at any point looked like it wasn't going to be a Dutch victory.

That wasn't my experience of it.

Even at 1-0, I was watching and thinking there's no chance because Romania haven't done the thing.

And I don't say that to be cruel.

I think when we talk about tournament football and what we love about it.

I think one of my definitely very solid memories this tournament is going to be that 3-0 against Ukraine because it was so vivid.

It was so unexpected and the stadiums bouncing and it's yellow.

And I love that about the visuals of tournament football.

It's so different.

When you're used to covering a league every week, you see the same stadiums every week.

You see the same places, the same colours.

The visuals of tournament football can feel so different.

And the Dutch are great for that because they always flood everywhere with their orange as well.

But I didn't feel like the Dutch were ruffled, particularly in this game.

I suppose right at the very beginning was the point where it most looked like it.

But once they went ahead, I thought they really had a very good grip on this game.

And while it's true what Baz said, I thought Drakashin had a good game.

Again, not saying this to be hypocritical, because I think you can still be super positive about the tournament, but I was a little disappointed that the Romanians weren't able to press higher up to get something a bit more in the Dutch face than they did.

And part of that just, again, is a reflection of how well some of the Dutch players played.

We haven't mentioned Tiani Reinders yet, who

I thought had a really classy, especially the first half.

I think he literally didn't miss a single pass.

And some of those are quite ambitious passes too.

He put Dumfries through with one through ball that split like four players.

It was just so, so well played.

So I don't know.

I don't know if I've got a Van Dijk hot take in me, Maxim, for this final.

That's fine.

Or a freezing cold take as they go in this tournament.

Now we've seen this performance from the Dutch Pugas, do you think, you know, that you start to think, and we're recording before before the Austria-Turkey game, Turkey game, so we don't know who they're going to play, but they've made a, they've sort of, is this a statement?

Is this in, is it big enough to say this is a statement from them?

Well, I always fun enough, I know they defended badly, wasn't it, in the last group game, but I always looked at their defense and I thought, wow, if you've got

who you've got in there, Aki and De Licht and De Vries and Mickey van der Venn, you've got serious defenders there.

I just, I always thought, I go back to Depay.

It sounds like giving him a hard time.

If they had a proper elite centre forward, I think they really could do some damage.

But he's so hit and missed, Depay.

It's relying on Gakpo.

But do I think there's got every chance of reaching the semi-final there?

Then who knows?

We all know what side the drawer on, the same side as England is on as well.

I just,

I love the Dutch being here and I love the excitement of it.

I mean,

the scenes...

What I was looking at before I came on, I've got a, between my wife's family and my family, we've got most countries covered in this Euros.

I think

we're going to win somewhere.

And I texted my Dutch sister-in-law and I sent her the photograph of the thousands of them swaying.

And I said to her, what are they singing?

And in that beautifully Dutch way where she didn't mess around, she went, well, she says, it's nah links, hoop, hoop, nah rex, hoop, hoop.

You can work out what that means.

So I went, well, it probably means to the left, to the right, does it?

She went, yeah, there you go.

And I love the way, have you seen they're all holding little busts of Van Basten and Hulid above their heads, a little, and Burke.

And so I just, I suppose to answer your question, Max, I'm a bit biased because I'd love to see them in a semi-final back in Germany, obviously, Euro 88 and all that.

I mean, they're nothing like that team.

Of course, they're not.

But most teams aren't here, are they?

I know you've mentioned it before.

International football is about moments now, isn't it?

It's simply about moments.

It's not about patterns of play.

Thank God, actually, because I think we have enough of that in the regular season.

It's about moments and who can take advantage, who has a bit of inspiration.

That's why defence is so important.

Keep them out like France yesterday.

You might get something the other end.

Why not the Dutch?

Certainly to the last four.

four i wouldn't say it was a statement but they've certainly cleared their throat yeah the statement might come in the next game

um john says how did i miss alec baldwin being appointed romania coach it's a very good point yes i thought that too i mean and i sort of took a check and he's absolute he is a ringer tuckle ringer although when i told you you said this to me before the podcast max and i thought you meant mike baldwin from coronation street i'm just looking at him

he looks nothing like the romanian manager to get two coronation street references into this part.

We tend to leave them, don't they?

Just funny.

You know, you say every three days, Arsen Wenger talks about sitting on an electric bench.

Who's ever sat on an electric bench?

I just thought it was a really good expression.

What are things to sit on?

Yeah, I know.

I just thought it was a really good expression to sum up that terror that any football fan has.

There's always terror when you're 1-il up, but the terror is accentuated when you're 1-il up and you've missed six chances, isn't it?

And you're going, oh my God, there's dread around the corner.

And we know what is going to happen here because, you know, we've all seen the film a million times and so forth.

But

for the Dutch today, I think

there's something about, for me, the orange and the mass and the block and the excitement of it.

I just find it incredibly intoxicating.

And

it might call to my youth.

not 74 because I don't remember that, but 78, it might call to that and Croifer and all that and the colours.

But there's just something about a good Holland team that I find really attractive.

Hoop, hoop.

All All right.

That'll do for this part.

I'll be back in a second.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So we have our quarterfinals then.

Spain versus Germany, Portugal, France, England, Switzerland, and the Netherlands versus Turkey.

We will talk about them obviously as they happen,

Spain-Germany, Nikki, is brilliant, isn't it?

I'm excited about all of these, to be honest.

But Spain-Germany, I suppose, is the one that has the greatest glamour appeal.

It's the two

nations that you think of as serial tournament winners.

And

I mean, they're not the only ones, are they, to be fair?

I mean, France, no, but but also who are playing quite well at the moment, playing well, and it's Germany at home.

And Spain have been the best team in the tournament for me.

That's that's my opinion.

Uh, and Germany have been good and are at home, so that's in itself a compelling dynamic.

And

yeah,

there's so much to say about this.

I don't even know where to start with it.

I'm curious to see which lineup we get out of Germany, whether you see Wertz on the bench again, whether it's more aggressive than that.

I'm excited to see Nico Williams every time he slips onto the pitch at the moment.

And Yamin Lamar, those are two players who just are the most exciting, among the most exciting for me at this tournament.

Everything about it, I'm really curious about how this game's going to go.

Mark, I mean, I don't want to give you lines, but you know, you could open with it's worthy of a final.

Hey, Wrighty, isn't it?

Something like that.

I think I said that the other day.

Wrighty, absolutely.

I'm hosting this game, presenting this game on Friday.

Wrighty loves Fulkrug and is desperate to get him in the German team.

Who doesn't, right?

I mean, who doesn't?

Who doesn't?

I looked it up the other day.

He was like...

He was almost 13 before he made his international debut.

He had a clash of heads with a teammate in training once.

I went to hospital and they found his teammate's tooth in his forehead.

I mean, who doesn't love stories like that i mean you know we just and his nickname is i think it's l u l u um laut cke looker which means i think gap in his teeth because he's got a gap in his teeth so i'm really as nikki says are they going to go and i backed haverts at 33 to 1 for the golden boot and he missed two sitters the other night

to the television i mean speaking of strikers as we did earlier in the pod who don't always score when you wish they would yeah exactly so i think it's i think you know the whole vertz uh musiala's the most beautiful dribber of the ball.

They're going to play Havertz, Fulkrook.

And then, as Nikki said, Nico Williams the other night was just sensational.

Lamin

Yamal came straight from, you know, the Spanish GCSEs to bending those left-wing crosses.

It's just the most fabulous game.

And it quite often happens that a match that you wish were the final work because it's the way it comes out.

Who knows how it's going to be.

Last thing to say is, who told me, some German said this to me this week?

I can't remember who it was, said it's in Stuttgart.

They said brilliant place for it to be

because they really are.

I mean, they're fanatical everywhere, aren't they?

If we Dortmund would say they're fanatical, but a great venue for it.

So I think it's going to be a, I just hope it's a brilliant game.

You know, whoever wins wins.

But let's, let's not be a nil-nil draw go to pence, but a proper, a proper game well won.

Yeah, I mean, and that's Spanish midfield.

I think that's that could be the difference, right?

Because it's the most balanced midfield, and I think Germany might struggle with that.

Speaking of 0-0 going to penalties, Portugal, France, Barry, what do you reckon?

Look, I look at these four quarter-finals, and I couldn't confidently pick a winner of any of them.

But Portugal, France,

someone, I knew this would happen, but a friend of mine sent me a message to say that my tarade about Cristiano Ronaldo had been clipped up and put on Instagram and that all his fanboys are out for my blood now.

It didn't go down well at all.

I'm not on Instagram, so I haven't seen it and I don't care.

But

after I'm slightly torn by this because I have money on Portugal to win the tournament at 14 to 1 or something, but I really, really don't want Cristiano Ronaldo to win it.

There's no doubt in my mind that Portugal could beat France who have not got going yet.

Hey, Barry, what about Ronaldo is suspended for the final?

Surely that's the dream, right?

So you win the money and he doesn't and they win it, which is worse for him than them not winning if he's not on the pitch.

John had written Genuine Question on the release of another Jonathan Wilson Ronaldo piece, which is a really good one of his many, of the Oeuvre.

How many has he written?

50, 75, 100?

Will there be grief counseling provided by the Guardian when Ronaldo finally retires?

Adore the pod in everything you do, says John.

Thank you.

Was that really extreme?

Was that really, sorry to ask?

Was that really?

For me, that was so extreme,

the Slovenia game.

I mean, we've watched millions of Ronaldo matches, but this just seemed to be Ronaldo on steroids.

I think it was the free kick on the left, wasn't it?

Which he tried to score from.

I'm just like, what?

This is...

We're now watching something almost extraterrestrial.

This is so weird.

Yeah, but I don't, and I don't want you to, you know, get you into BBC bashing.

But, you know, at half-time there, and we talked about it a bit yesterday, at half-time they sort of went, look, I guess not a lot had happened, but they showed Ronaldo making some sort of...

half-decent near-post runs that you know i've seen lots of league one centre forwards make and sort of saying you know this is how you play the game and you're like oh he's the problem like he is the problem for them i think um but you know there's me i said kane and bellingham should be substituted still think you should i still think you shouldn't start bellingham or foden england switzerland Nikki.

I come to you because I feel you are sort of the most reasonable when it comes to thinking about England.

And I'm, you know, and I'm swing one way or the other.

And like, I think they'll, I think they'll stodgily be stodgy and hope for a big moment.

That's sort of what they're going to do now, right?

Yeah, I mean, it feels like that's been the whole tournament and

it's getting them along.

And it's the inverse of what I started on earlier

in this podcast.

They do have the players who can just score you a goal when you really need them to, as Jude Bellingham showed.

And so you don't always have to be brilliant, as long as you're close in the game and you've got difference makers on the pitch.

It's actually really very

much something that Max Allegri came back to time and time again when he was at Juventus: this idea of, well, if you've got Lebron on the court at the end of the basketball game, you throw the ball to Lebron.

Well, that's kind of what England have in those situations.

If they can keep the game tight, they've got a lot of Lebrons in footballing terms to give the ball to.

but

I don't know what to say.

Switzerland have played more,

I think, more inventive football than England at this tournament.

But England's players are better.

That's my opinion.

So I expect England to win.

Probably don't even say inventive, just more football.

Don't you?

I did like, you know, you tweeting, Mark, about you know, after 33 years of doing this job and listening to tactical analysis, I've come to the conclusion football is really just about one thing.

Get it in the mix.

I mean, I heartily agree.

But it was great that you had one reply that could be right there, Mark, from Sir Jeff Hurst.

And of course, immediately I went to check the veracity of it.

You know, it wasn't just, you know, Phil from Milton Keynes pretending to be.

But I looked it up and it really was.

But I think, you know, when you watch the other day, what was it?

A long throw from Kyle Walker and then an Eze mishit shot and Tony popping up in the right place.

And

I think the last, for obvious reasons, the last eight or nine years,

we are under a tsunami of inverted fullbacks and pre-programmed patterns aren't we and and overlaps and underlaps and whatever um and listen if you uh if we all watched spain in the last world cup against i think it was in the morocco game they passed the ball almost for the sake of it lost on penalties in the end you've got to get on with the points of the game and england through through the mother of necessity had to get on with the points of the game and as nikki says because england have got kane and Bellingham and Foden and Saka, they've got more of those players than Switzerland have.

It's a fact.

I mean, mean, Zaka's brilliant, but they've got no outstanding striker, have they?

Mbola's a bit hit and miss.

So probably England have got more of those sorts of players.

So whatever they want to do, it stick it in the mixer or, you know, they're pretty patterns.

Well, they're not capable of the latter, are they?

Then they probably should shade it.

Yeah, I suppose that's the thing.

You think they should be capable of pretty patterns.

But look, I think Mbola and Andoe will scare an English defence that hasn't looked that brilliant.

Barry,

if you weren't inspired as an England player, would an acoustic performance from Ed Sheeran when you sat sat

on an armchair inspire you now?

Would you be ready to leave everything out there?

See, if that happened,

and I was in the England squad, I'd want to go back to my room and get on with, you know, whatever, playing line of Call of Duty.

I don't do video games, but

I'd be afraid then that it would be seen to be rude and I might get dropped for the next game or something.

But it's exactly the kind of musician I would expect Gareth Souke to get on board.

I'm guessing Call Play weren't available.

Well, I don't think there's a big crossover with Shearer and Shania Twain fans.

I would have thought.

I might be wrong, Barry.

But I mean, that's what the point is, isn't it?

Are you insane?

I think they might be.

They're both quite smooth FM, aren't they?

Shania Twain is one a legendary country music performer.

She's one of Taylor Swift's biggest influences, if not her biggest influence.

And you're comparing her to a busker from Ipswich.

Have a word with yourself.

I'm just saying, I feel they're in the same...

I can hear someone saying, stay with us after the news.

We've got Sarday, Ed Sheeran, and Shania Twain coming up.

I can just, I can, you know, maybe in years to come, maybe that'll be me and that'll be my life.

And so, you know, I'm just, I'm just getting, you know, you sort of think with those sort of gigs.

I think you need to be pissed and it needs to be about midnight and you're somewhere quiet.

And someone goes, oh, all right, Sheeran.

Then you'd be like, oh, that's quite nice.

But if you're just sort of if it's just after a two-hour meeting with Steve Holland about long throws, it doesn't feel like that's that's the moment for that gig, anyway.

And then, of course, we've got then we've got the Netherlands Turkey, um, Mark, which we've sort of touched on already, but that is that's very hard to call, isn't it?

I mean, with Turkey with their suspensions and all that, and the Netherlands starting to hit form, you'd expect the Dutch, right?

I'm just leaning towards the Dutch for the reasons you've said, mate.

Despite the fact that the support will be fanatical, um, I wonder whether the Dutch will just have enough.

Today we saw the very good, they should be very good defensively, the Dutch, if they can get a Gakpov obviously scored two goals.

Depay, very, very hit and miss.

You know,

I don't rate him very highly, particularly a bit like your Canon Bellingham who are going to score a hatchet or whatever.

I just think with all the Turks who have been brilliant and embroidered this championship so well,

I would edge towards, I would personally edge towards an England, Netherlands, semi- and a Germany, France.

I think we're going to have the old enemies in the other half.

I mean, it's good.

And then

we're going to play Schumacher on Batty Storm for about, you know, two hours before in the build-up to that semi-final.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, half our audience are not in the UK, Puga.

Some of the Australian audience will know you a bit from your work that we did together.

But, you know, guys in the States might not have a clue who you are and why we're talking to you about covering the games.

But you've covered the games for ITV in the UK.

You've been out there.

And how's this tournament fared to all the other millions that you've done?

Germany is a great country, Germany.

And the people have been fabulous.

In terms of an atmosphere and a colour, it's one of the best tournaments I can remember.

And I say that primarily because there's been so little trouble.

And I say that with a lot of self-knowledge because I'm English, Max, you and I.

A lot of self-knowledge, and we're the ones 98% of the time who are causing the trouble.

And we really haven't.

My son went to the first game.

The trouble was with the travel, it wasn't with the fans.

So that has been really refreshing.

Just the colour, how well the fans have got on together, how well they've supported.

Looking at the stadiums, it's been brilliant.

And it's also very gratifying that somebody's got a worse rail system than we have.

I mean, it is a shambles.

It is a proper, proper shambles.

I swear to God, it's worse than ours.

And I know if you live on the if you live in England, you go Avante or Great Western Railways or Southwest, you go, come on.

Last week I went from,

where was I?

I went to watch Scotland in, I can't even remember where I was now, Leipzig or somewhere.

No,

down, and it was terrible.

You know, it took twice.

In fact, we gave up in the end.

No, it was in Stuttgart.

We gave up up in the end and got a car in the end from halfway.

I suppose you gave up and just didn't cover the game.

I was not sure.

I would have noticed that.

But it's such a great football country.

It's been a brilliant.

And the Germans are charming.

And the Pratt Verse and all the rest of it that goes with this.

Great place to come and watch football in a championship.

Can I ask a, I don't know if this question is interesting for anyone else, but obviously people listening to this podcast, we presume there is a sort of a knowledge of football and probably a greater knowledge than most of us have, right?

But obviously when you're talking, when you're doing an England game on ITV and you've got 18 million people, and you know, people, some people, this is might be the only game that they watch.

Do you sort of have you've got to tread this fine balance between the people who love football and want you to talk how you normally talk about football to the people who are just sitting there going, what's this, who's that, why are they doing that?

I always say, I always say to the guys, and it's the same if you do, you know, Euros or if you do a Rugby World Cup as well.

I say, listen, exactly as you said, Max, 65% of people, clearly, two and a half million people watch Man City, Liverpool on Sky.

By definition, 18 and a half watching England, Slovakia.

You've got an awful lot who don't watch in between.

So I say, you could be tactical, but be just as happy to paint a broader picture in terms of emotion and feel, because everybody understands that.

Everybody understands what, if I ask Gary Neville, what's it like when you're 1-0 down with five minutes to go and you're thinking, oh shit, what are the headlines going to be?

That's just a human emotion and reaction.

So be very happy to paint

in broader stripes as well there.

Because you obviously can't start saying, well, a corner is when you hit the ball off, you know, all that sort of stuff.

Because there is a fine line between patronizing people and bringing in those who aren't watching.

But the great thing about football is, even if you don't like the game, it's such a simple game to understand.

I mean, my late mum hated football, but you know, if I was doing a big game, she'd watch it and she didn't need to explain the laws because even she could work that out.

So, do you know what I mean?

She wouldn't understand the handball law

as nobody does.

So, yeah, I always say that, guys, go, go, you know, go broad, go emotion.

I always call righty the barometer.

I say, you're the barometer of how England fans are feeling.

So, you're feeling nervous, excited, happy.

You know, those human reactions and instincts, people, everybody can understand.

And you're not under any pressure to sort of be jingoistic, right?

Like,

actually, in that half-time game, at halftime, you all went, they've got to change this.

This is terrible, right?

No, no, no.

Quite the opposite.

No, well, A, I would never tell them what to do, but B, the way I do, I'm not going to be jingoistic.

I'm not a cheerleader.

That's not my job.

My job is to is to tell the story to be editorial rigorous why when why when how what and and at halftime in the slovaka game was great so i just said to the guys what do you want to say editor and i go don't even bother running in the slovakia gold because i'm pretty sure we're going to get five minutes of bam which was great television wasn't it this is what needs to happen from the heart with a bit of tactical nouse as well but again as i was saying max from that sort of emotional side garris southgate cannot leave this alone which of course he did for 20 20 minutes.

So it was even funny in a way, wasn't it?

Just, you know,

let the dog, big dogs run.

Nathan says, Barry mentioned there was an Australian in his England hate WhatsApp group chat.

I'm so fascinated by that.

You know, the WhatsApp group, Barry, the Celtic WhatsApp group.

Is the person in question, is the Australian in question, Mrs.

Rushton?

asks

Nathan.

No audition.

No one hates this competition more than because of the timings and the fact that now we have a toddler and she has to do literally bath time, dinner time, bath time, bedtime is the five o'clock game into our first bit of recording.

She is absolutely, this is the tournament she has hated the most.

And she hated the Qatar World Cup so much because it was in the dead of winter.

Nick says, hi, following on from the placenta chat, which I noticed you didn't do pugas with Ange and Wrighty and Roy Keen at halftime in the Slovakia game on whether to eat the placenta.

Is this Barry's dog?

Yes.

Well, yes, this is Barry's dog eating placentas.

Yes.

I'm wondering if Barry has any more advice from the veterinary world.

Our first child is due any day now.

Before the tournament started, we'd become convinced it would lead us to missing England finally winning a trophy.

And my wife had even looked into if there was a way for us to watch the football in hospital.

However, having seen the absolute dross of the first four England games, we wondered if Barry had any advice on how to induce labour so that we can miss England's next match against Switzerland.

I quote my partner, having to sit through another 90 minutes of that shite is even less appealing than the agony of giving birth.

Please do me, do let me know if there's any tips.

Nick, Barry, have you got any tips on inducing labor?

Um, I've heard, yeah,

well,

I've heard that a hot curry helps, yeah, but from the veterinary world, I presume you know from the veterinary world and and and vigorous love making, they also uh get things moving along, I believe.

Yeah,

um,

from the veterinary world, no, not none that I'm aware of.

I mean, is he married to a sheep or a cow?

I don't, I don't have the details.

Any medicine, you know, injections from the veterinary world that help things along.

I'd advise you to.

I mean,

I suppose even a sheep would have noticed that performance against the vacuum wasn't great.

So

it is possible, isn't it?

Anyway, we wish you all the best, Nick.

Have an excellent child.

And you'll be very tired.

It's simultaneously the best and worst thing you'll ever do, Nick.

So good luck with it.

And that'll do for today.

Thank you, Nikki.

Thanks, everyone.

Uh, thanks for coming on, Mark.

Thank you very much, Max.

Thanks for having me.

Cheers, Barry.

Thanks, everyone.

Public Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Christian Ben.

This is The Guardian.