History for Georgia and heartbreak for Ukraine - Football Daily

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly group stage is done.

Then Georgia stunned Portugal to reach the last 16.

Craratelia early on and Mikatadse penalty set up their first ever knockout fixture against Spain.

Portugal had already won the group and rested all their important players.

Wink emoji.

Meanwhile a harsh early red card for Chekia looked like it would kill their hopes but they really got it launched late on and were perhaps unlucky.

Chenktosen winning it for Turkey.

The refs still booking and sending off players late into the night.

On paper Group E looked really exciting on the pitch less so heartbreak for Ukraine who go out with four points.

They had late chances to beat a disappointing Belgium but couldn't get the vital goal.

Romania and Slovakia played out a convenient one-all draw but it looked like they were both trying.

And then we'll look at the last 16, a superbly unbalanced draw.

There's some England fallout, the quotes that came out after we recorded yesterday, and Phil Foden popping home.

All that plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Jonathan Faduba, welcome.

Hello, Max.

Lars Sivertson, hello.

Hi, Max.

Barry Glendenning, good evening.

Hi, lads.

All right, let's start then with Group F.

Portugal win it on six points.

Turkey Turkey and Georgia both through.

And actually, these games dovetailed quite nicely.

The first 70 minutes was all about Georgia, Portugal.

That calmed down a bit, and then Chekia started going for it.

And you could move to that screen.

Let's start with the Georgia game.

Will says Georgia have been an absolute joy in this tournament.

This is why international football matters and always will.

Pride, teamwork, determination, but above all, skill.

This isn't a Greece-style underdog story boring.

their way to success with anti-football.

This is about ability.

I mean, it's a the scenes at the end, Lars, were brilliant.

No, it was incredible.

And I'm glad that

that message flags that up, the fact that it's about ability.

And actually, I want to say this about Georgia.

They are obviously a skillful team.

Like, we know that.

Everyone knows about Karaskelia.

The hipsters knew about Mikau Tadze before the tournament.

They know about him now.

The Watford fans will know about Kavitadzen in midfield.

So they've got skill, but I was so impressed by the fact how...

And this sounds weird because usually this is the thing underdogs can do, but they were really organized and they kept focused and they didn't get distracted and they were energetic for 90 minutes.

And Georgia are a strange underdog because that is the bit that doesn't always work with them.

I've seen quite a few Georgia games and they can do stuff on the ball, but then sometimes people are in the wrong position and they don't put whatever.

They were so focused and so energetic and you know, kept believing in all of those other things that we say, but it matters a lot.

And I thought for sure when they scored the first goal that they have scored way too early here.

I was like, guaranteed.

I nearly tweeted it, Wilson style.

Like clearly they'd scored too early.

But

Portugal didn't create that many big chances.

I mean, there was two blocks from Cristiano that, you know, some heroic defending was needed.

But by and large, I think they did really, really well.

And were, yeah, no, and I feel like it's a little bit typical of the Georgians as well to save their best performance for the most difficult opponent.

I mean, that seems very on-brand for them as well.

They're a fascinating, fascinating team.

And it's been great to watch them.

I'm going on a bit now, but of course, they were pushed back for a fair bit here because you're playing Portugal.

But when they had the ball, I mean, some of the passing moves they put together is quite a lot better than what some of the bigger teams in the tournament has managed to do in this tournament.

Like, there were some really slick moves they were able to do and some nice combinations.

No, they're a wonderful team.

And, Jonathan, I think a lot of people before this tournament thought it was, you know, Cavarichelia and just 10 blokes, but it's clearly more than that.

Well, it's still 10 blokes, but obviously they have names that might be a bit more recognised now.

I mean, but you take my point.

These are some excellent football players.

Yeah, no, sorry.

I'm being a bit silly.

You're being facetious, Jonathan, aren't you?

Getting a bit overconfident now.

Getting a bit carried away.

No, but

I know what you mean, though, but I think for me, they've had three of the best players in this tournament so far.

Mikhail Sadzi, Kafarich Kalio, and Mama Dashvili, the goalkeeper.

I think he's been fantastic and proved it tonight.

I think there was a lot of comments about him in this game in particular, but all through the tournament, he's really been strong, good at coming for crosses, sort of very dominating in his box in general.

Guram Kashir, of course, and that sort of five-man back line is quite effective.

I think

where they've struggled, Georgia, this was the game where it all sort of came together for them.

They seem to find a sort of extra burst of energy because in the first two games, they played pretty well,

took the lead in two of the games in the group, obviously.

And obviously, in the uh Turkey game, they went behind but equalized and dominated Turkey for parts of the match.

But in the first two group games, they really ran out of steam pretty quickly, and there was a bit of a worry about that in this game as well.

Early in the first half, you know, the ridiculously early goal from Karach Kalia, fantastic strike, and they seemed to sit back almost immediately.

And you kind of had a feeling, I think Maxi even made a comment saying, you know, they're going to,

it's too early of a goal to score, right?

And that that was the feeling, but they seemed to develop some extra energy from somewhere.

Maybe it was the stakes, maybe it was just the context of the match and what they had to play for.

But yeah, they managed to recover a little.

Karash Kelly, of course, still went off in the 80th minute.

He still sort of tends to maybe fatigue towards the end of the games in this tournament so far.

But they maintained that energy.

The midfield changed a little bit slightly.

Kittish Villi, I thought, was really good in the centre of midfield.

And what they're good at is they've got a structure and they've got a set style of play on and off the ball.

And And obviously their tactic is to kind of sit deeper and counter with the players that can dribble 1v1 and beat players like Credit Felligan do.

So for me personally, they've been the most, I'd be the most exciting team I've seen at this tournament.

I mean, I still haven't really got over the second group game, the miss at the end.

That was living rent-free in my head for about four days.

And so, you know, they've provided loads of really good moments, even when they haven't been good.

So all in all, I've really enjoyed watching them.

I'm delighted they're through.

They're going through now and play Spain in the next round which will be difficult but obviously the first time in the history a huge achievement for the nation and and they've brought a lot to this tournament I've loved watching them yeah and Barry our man obviously it's self-indulgent of us because we know Guru McShia listens to this maybe he's not listening during the tournament but I can't help but watch him and watch how it just is he's a really good player and he played super solid and played brilliantly yeah he laid down a marker to Cristiano Ronaldo early doors with a very beautifully timed tackle I think that was

Ronaldo's first of many whinges of the evening and

fits of peak and petulance.

He just marshals that defence really, really well.

He always seems to be in the right place.

The players clearly all admire him, but

every single one of those Georgian players were outstanding tonight, I thought.

They worked so hard.

And it must be, whatever about the physical aspect of it, it must be so mentally draining to concentrate that hard for that long and not make a mistake.

And on the ITV commentary, you know, Ali McCoyst went to great lengths to praise the midfield trio and the way they were always in the right place, the organization of the back five, and then

the two lads up front who just ran tirelessly.

And

I won't lie, I think Viet Kilia was the only Georgian player I'd heard of before this tournament, but

there's plenty more of them on my radar now.

And

the goalkeeper is outstanding.

I mean, our man Gurum, I think he's someone said he turns 37 next week.

So he's approaching the end of his career.

But what a way to go out.

I'm really delighted they've gone through and

they should be very, very proud of themselves.

Yeah, Lars, we've talked about, you know, the luck of the draw in this tournament.

I suppose to be it is

important to say it is lucky for them that they came up against a Portugal side that didn't need anything, that had made lots of changes.

Yeah, that's true.

That is a part of it, no doubt.

But I mean, as a Norwegian, I mean, our greatest, my country's greatest moments in football came against the Brazil team that had nothing to play for.

And we don't remember that part.

Like,

we don't,

we really don't care.

And it's something I thought about a lot watching this again, because I've spent some time in Georgia.

I know some Georgian people.

I kept thinking about how this will be to them what us beating Brazil in 98 is to us, which is this great sort of

nation-building moment.

Like everyone who was alive then and of a conscious age will know where they were and what they were doing.

And we don't get too many of those collective moments, really.

And this is one of the greatest things that football can give to us.

I was in Scarborough, weirdly, for that game,

obviously.

But like everyone will know and everyone will remember.

And it's just fabulous that the Georgians have had a moment like that, especially during a period that's a little bit fraught for them politically at home.

So,

I mean,

it's got to be absolutely.

I mean, when they qualified for the tournament, there was absolute mayhem in Tbilisi.

I really don't know what the words are for what there's going to be there tonight.

I mean, honestly, the hangovers in that country tomorrow should be studied for science.

It's going to go into new realms of

enjoyment, I think.

So, no,

just an incredible night.

And at one point, we could talk about this all night, as you can tell.

I believe at one point, I think they had, I might be right in saying they had players from like 11 different countries on the field in terms of where they played their league football.

So they have a couple of big names and a couple of names that are now significantly bigger.

But it is a sort of slightly ragtag group of journeymen, if you look at it in that sense.

And Barry was absolutely right.

Like they were all good.

There's a few players who play for

unfancied clubs and unfancied leagues who, you know, maybe should be playing playing somewhere else if they can do that but then of course i think international football has that sort of magic to it is that you can get people together and they can raise themselves on under under certain occasions they had one player from the georgian league who who came on now the georgian league is ranked by the uefa coefficient which is sort of based on the results as the 46th best league in europe ahead of the estonian and albanian league but below the maltese and lithuanian league uh and they had a player from from that league who came on and looked totally fine so it was incredible how everyone just kind of stood up and and lived up to the occasion i guess jonathan were you surprised that portugal rested lots of players but didn't rest ronaldo absolutely not i think they

they

made the correct decision i think to rest players and and go for a slightly different lineup obviously if this three at the back is causing a lot of divisions of opinion in in portugal i i'm not sure that setup is really working for them and i think there will be calls for that to maybe change with martinez on on the sideline there

ronaldo is obviously going to want to score as many goals as possible, and to have not scored in the tournament yet will, I'm sure, be eating him alive.

So,

I can imagine he was desperate to play.

And,

you know, for all people, kind of laugh at Ronaldo in that sense.

He wants to win and score, and I don't see anything wrong with that in a sense.

But clearly, he didn't have a great game.

He could have got two yellow cards quite early in the first half and been sent off.

It's in contrast to England, isn't it?

In the sense that England didn't take that opportunity to rest some players.

And I suppose neither sides are happy.

One is not happy that we, you know, England fans aren't happy that we didn't take the opportunity to maybe rotate a bit more.

Portugal fans are now going to be fuming that the players that have come in and rotated were, didn't really do the job.

So I suppose no one's ever really completely satisfied with whatever happens.

You don't want to rest those England players because you don't want them to start next game because they were so bad in the game they weren't rested in

the last game.

It's true, but

can I just make one point before we move on?

I want to ask,

where are all the top strikers in this tournament?

I don't know if this has been discussed already.

They're all Norwegian.

They didn't qualify.

Alex Serlot, almost top scorer in La Liga, his sat at home.

Chaling Holland has sat at home.

No, it's a really good point.

There's such a dearth of elite number nines.

I did say last week, Max, you might remember that Mika Tadzi for me, in the first game, I said, I think it was the best all-round strikers performance.

And he's now the top scorer in the tournament.

And to be honest, I don't see many other players performing as well as he's done.

And

it has made me wonder in this tournament, is the the defining quality of whoever goes on to win the tournament going to be a top striker?

Because I haven't seen that many.

And you talk about Ronaldo there.

I didn't, when he was at Manchester United, I didn't really consider him a striker.

But as this tournament's gone on, I'm looking around at the other strikers and thinking, where are all the sort of elite European strikers?

That Ukrainian fellow, Arotem Dovbik, he was the league's golden boot, but he's been pretty poor, I think.

Where are they all?

You know, he's constantly getting the ball caught under his feet and caught in indecisive, but, you know, we'll get to them later.

I want to present an alternative view.

I wouldn't class it as a disagreement.

I just want to present an alternative view to what Jonathan said about how there's nothing wrong with Ronaldo wanting to play and score goals.

I think there is something wrong with him wanting to play and score goals in this game because the guy is 39.

Now, if indeed he is part of Portugal's best 11, which honestly at this point I think is up for debate, there is no reason for him to play this game.

None whatsoever.

Like they arrest Bernardo Silvo, they arrest Bruno Fernandez.

They do that because they know there's been a lot of games played and they have more games coming up.

If you're and they will they will finish top of the group no matter what happens in this game.

The only reason for Ronaldo to play this game is because he might improve his numbers by playing what he sure I'm sure he thought was a poor opponent.

And he nearly, I mean, he got a yellow card for dissent, kept dissenting on more than one occasion.

So with a stronger ref, he could have been sent off for dissent and been banned from the round of 16.

He could have injured himself.

Like, there's literally no reason for him to play this game if he is, in fact, considered their first choice up front.

The only reason is his ego and him wanting to improve his stats.

And I don't think that's a good reason.

I think that it's pretty bad from a sort of teamwork perspective.

If he'd had the ref in the Checkia Turkey game, he definitely would have been sent off.

I mean, I don't know if he's still brandishing cards now.

I'm turned off by second screen.

He was just booking everybody he could see.

There was an early red in this game for Antonin Barak.

It didn't, it obviously affected the game, but it didn't like it didn't kill the game as they thought it might.

But it felt really harsh, Lars.

Yeah.

And it felt like from that moment, the ref kind of lost control.

And it's really noticeable because actually it made me think this tournament has been brilliantly refereed so far.

Yeah, I didn't.

I'm a little bit.

I'm sure there will be sort of refs

who say that that is a correct yellow card by the book because they have been very strong on like stamps on the foot and ankle area, even when they're accidental.

But maybe this is me being too much uh of a proper football man which which of course i'm not but like i really think to give a player a second yellow in the first half of a crucial crucial game at an international tournament that has to be a very yellow card like honest i think there should be an extra sort of five percent wiggle room there which i guess goes against what i said about ronaldo and the dissenting i suppose uh but i just really think

I don't, I mean, I even copy-pasted the sort of definitions of the rule into the, into the WhatsApp during the game, because there is, like, like a dictionary definition in the laws of the game of what should be a free kick, what should be a yellow, and what should be a red.

It's kind of neatly it's neatly divided into like if you're careless, it's a free kick.

It's a wreck, if you're reckless, it's a yellow card.

If you use excessive force and it's dangerous, it's a red.

And it's defined as reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to or coinsequences for an opponent, and then he must be cautious.

I don't think what Barak does there is acting in disregard of anything.

I think he was going for the ball.

He missed it there was a foot there i really don't think you had to send him off for that i think you're right um and it did obviously affect the game look channel loglu's finish is absolutely brilliant isn't it to put them one nil up like that is just it just he strikes it so beautifully but thomas zuchek they get back into the game sucek scores a scrappy goal and then actually for those last 20 minutes i thought

I loved how Checkie just went for it and they really got it launched and they and they they didn't have that many guilt-edge chances, but I felt they were unlucky in this.

Yeah, I was warming to them towards the end because I've been sniffy about the Czechs earlier in the tournament because they play a type of football that maybe aesthetically isn't what I enjoy watching the most.

And I've been joking about how they're Scandinavians in disguise and like they're all six-foot men who know where to stand and that's all they do.

And but I just thought the way when they got when they go down to 10 men, the way they stuck in it, the way they kept you know, going at it, kept winning challenges, there's a lot of heart and a lot of effort and grew into the game.

And, you know,

they were not a lot further away from getting a winner than Turkey were really in the balance of play here.

And I thought, and I kind of found myself going, you know what?

Yeah,

they were very good.

And they didn't deserve to go out in the manner they did, I didn't think.

No, although Turkey are probably the more interesting team.

Gilmaz is exciting, isn't he?

Adagula as well.

He was having fun.

I liked Andros Townsend saying about Cheng Tosen when he came on.

Give him a chance and he'll score.

And I was like, that's not the Cheng Tosen that I know.

But to be fair to me,

just people refuse to give him chances wherever he goes they're just not giving him the chances you're right but he did score the winner took it very well which means that turkey go through as well and that'll do for part one part two we'll do the slightly anticlimactic groupie

Hi pod fans of America Max here Barry's here too hello football weekly is supported by the remarkable paper pro now if you're a regular listener to this show you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable paper pro we already know that remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Group E finishes with all teams on four points, but Romania top the group with four points, Ukraine a bottom of the group with four points, and Belgium and Slakia in the middle with four points.

We hoped for great excitement.

Um, anyone could have gone through in the end.

They caught a bit of the ailment known as Group C, I think.

Um, we'll start with Ukraine-Belgium.

Baz, you were you on the minute-by-minute.

Ukraine had to go for this, didn't it?

Hard balance, of course, of when to go for it, but do you think they kind of left it a little too late?

Not really.

I was sort sort of they didn't really put the foot down till 75 minutes i think

but

it started with a back five so they obviously had to defend they also had to attack i this was a nil-nil but it was a decent entertaining nil-nil and belgian were poor i wasn't as unimpressed with them as the lads on the bbc uh Wayne Rooney, Shearer, Jose Font and Mr.

Lineker, but they weren't great.

And there were times during the performance when Kevin De Bruyne was visibly angry with various teammates, and I think his own manager.

I would like to know what Kevin De Bruyne makes of his Belgian boss, because

he's not getting the best out of this team by any stretch of the imagination.

The Southgates there.

But I was very impressed with Ukraine's efforts.

They should have won it at the death.

They brought a sub-on called Maliowski, who almost scored with a corner.

He almost whipped the corner in at the near post.

Good bit of quick thinking for him.

And Cohn Castiles had to scramble across his line to keep the ball out.

And then

Georgi Sudikov, who was excellent throughout in the Ukraine midfield,

he advanced on goal.

The Belgian defence parted like the Red Sea and he shot straight at the keeper.

When, you know, if he'd put it across him,

he would have won the game for ukraine eliminated belgium for the from the competition but there was no urgency from belgian uh i think they were clinging on at the end uh they didn't create much uh romalul kaku was poor uh their leandro trussard was poor jeremy docku was poor and there was big gaping holes in their midfield because their two wingers were hugging the touchlines and Kevin de Bruyne wasn't coming back to do his defensive shift.

And then when he started doing that, they didn't have anything up front.

so a lot of work to do for Belgium ahead of their game against France and

Ukraine are so unlucky I mean first team in tournament history to go out despite having four points in the group stages towards the end I was really rooting for them I mean I'm rooting for them anyway every aren't we all but um Belgium you know

to see Belgium clinging on like that Ukraine fans were booing them I'd say Belgian fans weren't too impressed with that if that a team with that many good players shouldn't be reduced to that.

It does seem harsh in Ukraine.

I mean, there are questions about the format.

A lot of people have had them when, you know, teams are hanging around because they might not be able to, they might be through and they might not be.

But it does seem harsh on Ukraine to get four points and not get through, Jonathan.

Yeah, it does seem harsh.

I think, you know, the permutations of this group are quite unique, weren't they, in the sense of everyone going into the game on three points.

Ultimately, them's the breaks, isn't it?

It's just bad luck, to be honest.

You can kind of criticize

the format, as you've mentioned there, Max, and how it's set up, but ultimately, I suppose,

what can you really do?

You can't have bottom-of-the-groups team going through as well.

So, it's a difficult one, really.

But you have to feel for Ukraine.

I thought that the game was a bit drab

in general, and the group's been a bit drab.

I don't think it's been the best group, and you would imagine that

the teams that sort of progress, even you know, Belgium obviously now going on to play France.

It will be be a good game on paper but you would expect france to sort of dispatch this belgian side i don't think belgian side this belgian side is really vintage there's not much to fear besides de bruyne maybe um and obviously lukaku the group i mean i was mainly focusing on the slovakia romania game but the group the group generally uh had a feel of

you were sort of waiting for something to happen towards the end of the match you you know it was it was on tens of hooks and you thought okay there's going to be a last minute heartbreaker here for somebody but it just never really happened there was one chance ukraine had at the end and just kind of hit it straight at a goalkeeper that would have been you know an amazing finale if if ukraine had got a late one there but nothing really happened it just kind of petered out and so ultimately for ukraine i think they they knew the situation in terms of what they had to do and they just weren't able to to get it done against the belgian side and belgian

you know let's be honest i don't think their defense is that great so really the balance of the group was actually more open than i think maybe people people believe i don't think this belgium side is as good as fifa obviously think considering they seem to rank rank them top in the world every time I look at the FIFA rankings pretty much so yeah I don't think this Belgian side is a fantastic side De Bruyne side so it was a really well-balanced well-structured group and very even but just not much quality really yeah a friend of the pod Ali Maxwell was at the game tweeting De Bruyne gestures angrily at the whistling Belgian fans tells his teammates not to go over to them this is class he says and of course the dj is playing entirely inappropriate tunes for the general desolation slash anger um lars you said before recording that you were, I'm not sure if you said you were angry with Belgium, disappointed with Belgium.

What's the verb you're going for or the adjective?

Grumpy.

I grew increasingly grumpy about the Belgians as the game went on.

And really, having exactly, I'm going to pick up something Jonathan said.

I feel for the sake of clarity, it's worth stressing that the FIFA ranking is not a subjective thing.

It's just a result of lengthware.

It's not.

I love the idea that it's what.

Jani fancies it.

No, I love it.

The idea is that what FIFA thinks, like Gianni Infantino is kind of sat in the war room like, oh, we should put Belgium very high up in the table.

And oh, no, England, the English, we must move them down.

That would be very funny.

And arguably would make for a more interesting ranking than the current one, which is fully broken.

No, I listen, I wasn't as negative about Belgium as the panel was.

after their first two games.

Like, I thought Belgium were sort of fine-ish but unlucky against Slovakia and again, fine-ish against Romania.

But this was some hot garbage, I thought, across the game.

And listen, if you have Kevin De Bruyne and Jeremy Druku on the field, you will

inevitably create some chances.

Like, that's always going to happen.

But there was no urgency in what they were doing.

They had sort of, there was a touch of the Englanitis, I kind of felt, in the sense that there was a lot of players who

were not well coordinated, didn't seem to have any sort of idea what were what people would receive the ball and then sort of stop and look around.

All right, what are we doing here?

Who's over there?

And where's like this isn't this isn't what a team should should look like, in my view, certainly.

And I thought some of the changes Domenico Tedesco made were weird.

I think

they could have really used the goal because this sent them

that this means they play France in the next game, which, as bad as France have been, is still something you probably would like to avoid.

So they were theoretically chasing a goal here, I think, at least, yeah.

And so taking off Tielemans and Trossard and putting on like Mangal and Carrasco, I thought it was very strange behavior.

The sort of ongoing non-use of Loikapenda is really weird.

He scored 24 goals in the Bundesliga, and when he came on against Slovakia for the last 10 minutes, he had a real impact in that game, but he keeps being nowhere to be seen except basically an extra time.

I think there'll be a lot of questions for Tedesco, I think, after this game.

I can understand why the fans are frustrated.

And I thought they were very lucky to get out of this one.

Ukraine played it very sensibly.

They were cautious in the beginning, avoiding the kind of rout that they suffered against Romania, of course, but then they grew into the game and started pushing in the second half.

You've alluded to it already.

Malinovsky had a good shooting chance, and he strikes the ball really well.

So, even though that was from range, that was a real chance.

And Sudakov, you know, when they worked their way through, they had some real chances towards the end.

And I was sad, I was sad at the end because, like, I really wanted Ukraine to do it.

I thought Redrov approached this game in a very sensible way.

I thought they kind of did everything right, except get that late goal that they needed to go through.

So, anticlimax for me, uh, grumpy about the Belgiums, the Belgians, the Belgiums.

And when Belgium play France in the last 16, that's going to be like

the final of the...

I mean, I was about to say the final of the underperformance, but then there are so many underperformers.

We've got England are underperforming.

Italy are underperforming.

France are underperforming.

Belgium are underperforming.

There's really only Spain and Austria who look any good.

And this could change in the knockouts.

But yeah,

what a strange tournament.

Yeah, well, we'll do the last 16 in part three.

The only other notes I have, have, Barry, is the Tintin kit made its debut at the Euros.

And I kept thinking that Cookarella was playing left back for Belgium because it was just a man with sort of floppy hair.

But that's Arthur Tayat, who plays for Wren.

And Barry, Jose Font was listening to you because he had some new glasses on.

Had he?

Did you notice?

Were they not the same glasses?

No,

they were not the white safety.

Oh, they were, yeah, yeah, of course.

Oh, well.

So nice to know that we have the Georgia captain and we have Jose Font.

Jose Font taking fashion tips from me.

He also revealed that we've all been saying his and more importantly, Jose Mourinho's name wrong.

It was sort of like Gise

Fonte is his name, not Jose Font.

But anyway,

yeah, Arthur Tiat

at one point felt the lash of Kevin De Bruyne's tongue for misplacing a pass up the left flank.

He overhit it, sent the ball out of play, and De Bruyne just looks disgusted with him.

I would hate to upset Kevin De Bruyne.

I really wouldn't like to get on his bad books.

But the old Tintin strip, yeah, pale blue shirts, brown shorts, and white socks.

I've never read Tintin in my life.

I know who he is, and I know he looks like Jimmy Somerville from the Communards, but that's about it.

He went on some wild gallivanting adventures.

Anyway, we must move on to Slovakia-Romania.

And Jonathan, just loads of happiness at the end.

You know, unlike the angry Belgians, this was just Romanians and Slovakians dancing everywhere.

Yep, dancing everywhere.

There was a bit of a pause between the delayed reaction between the two sets of players waiting to figure out

the outcomes for both of them.

Obviously, for Romania, it's the first time they've qualified to the knockout stages in 24 years, since Euro 2000.

For Slovakia, yeah,

it was scenes of joy for them.

I mean, the Romanian fans, has to be said, they were probably the highlight of this match, to be honest.

The atmosphere they bring was just unbelievable.

packed the stadium out in numbers and really gave almost a home feeling for the Romanian team.

The team on the pitch didn't exactly do the same.

They weren't amazing.

It was a sort of up and down match.

Obviously, Slovakia sort of took the lead.

And then a bit of a strange penalty equalizer.

I don't know if you guys have seen it, but there was a sort of a VAR decision in terms of was it in or outside the box?

And that was maybe one of the, well, arguably the highlight of the match, really, besides sort of Deion Dublin's Witterings as the co-commentator.

But yeah, obviously for both sides, a phenomenal achievement to go through and scenes of jubilation

and yeah, happiness all around, really.

Yeah, I mean, so the penalty,

it's Yanis Hadji, isn't he, who's running through for Romania?

And he gets caught just outside the box.

And then as the challenge continues, it's sort of sort of shin on shin on the edge of the box and sort of by the letter of law inside the box.

but i just couldn't work out if the second contact was a foul or that just happened because the first one had happened but i wasn't too upset that a penalty was given i don't know about you jonathan no not really because i think the gate the flow of the game and it was a fairly even game to be fair though you know the the the rain kind of the conditions did affect the match in certain spells I'll be honest, I think both sides, there's a bit of a lack of quality, if I'm being completely honest.

I don't think they're like world beaters or European beaters, both sides, really.

It's more about getting through and and and making the nations proud which both sets of teams have done so Slovakia's first time since Euro 2016 that they've obviously progressed and and and for Romania like I mentioned first time in 24 years so you know it's a more about the goal here is more about qualification and I think that's where Ukraine are going to feel gutted in you know in the sense that they had they they've had they've got the same number of points essentially

and Romania goes through as top of the group which it's a bit that's a strange one but no fantastic for Romania and obviously that means that they they've progressed now and can look forward to the knockout stages.

Yeah, into the unbalanced side of the draw as well.

Yes, Lars?

Yeah, no, so I was trying to.

So I'm fairly experienced at double screening these games.

I have a technique for this.

I believe we've spoken about it on the pod before.

Yeah.

It's a volume technique.

Yeah, but there has been a problem the last few days.

We've had a few instances where there's been one game on that I'm really interested in, and one game on I'm absolutely not interested in.

And that's when the double screening kind of becomes challenging.

And I felt very engaged.

So I was trying to keep an eye on this, but I found it very, very difficult.

And I think we should all applaud Jonathan for taking one for the team and watching it properly.

But I did check the stats at halftime.

And at halftime, Romania had completed, they had a pass-completion rate of 74%, which means one out of four passes went astray, which is generally not good at this or any other level.

But I think we should salute the Romanians for getting out of the group.

I mean,

did they not win the group in the end on the goal difference because they tonked Ukraine?

And I absolutely did not see this coming.

I completely wrote them off ahead of the tournament because they don't have players who play for big clubs.

And the point that got made actually ahead of the tournament by the excellent Romanian sports writer Emanuel Rossu is that they do not have great players, but there's a lot of spirit and sort of togetherness and heart in the team.

And I think we've seen that in their games.

And it's kind of, as much as I dislike being wrong, it is nice to see that you can have teams where man for man, they're not great, but they can, you know, work hard and become more than the sum of their parts uh which is well very different from other teams we have seen in this tournament uh so so good good on the remainings could i could i ask i haven't seen any of this game but could i ask at what point did they sort of

if any did they stop playing basically good question settle for the draw it was a good question and i i reckon by about half an hour left it was a bit they were both kicking it in the direction of the opposition's goal but not with any i mean maybe this is just a quality thing, but not with any real sort of decisiveness.

No one seemed that bothered, I reckon, by about the 60th minute.

I remember Ireland were in a similar situation with the Dutch and Mick McCarthy and Rule Cullard had had a word with each other and that was just it then.

I can't remember who they shafted, but...

It's not disgrace of Heehon.

uh uh at levels i'm i would say they both ran around quite a lot they weren't just standing still Right, anyway, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we will look at the last 16 games, do a bit of England as well, if we have to.

We'll be back in a second.

Hi, pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

The quarterfinal draw is as follows.

Spain v Georgia, and they will play the winners of Germany versus Denmark.

On the same side of the draw, Portugal versus Slovenia and France versus Belgium.

And then on the other side of the draw, you have Romania versus the Netherlands, Turkey versus Austria.

The winners of those two sides play each other.

And then you have England versus Slovakia and Switzerland versus Italy, and the winners of those will play in that quarterfinal.

It feels very unbalanced, Barry, in sort of a glorious way.

Well, it does, but I would argue that Austria are the best team I've seen in this competition so far, and you have them on what you're saying is the easy half of the draw.

England have been

diabolical so far,

and needless to say, they've got the cushiest draw going

against Slovakia.

Because of course they have, bastards.

So, no,

I can see where you're coming from, but I think a lot of what you're saying is based on reputation.

Belgium were garbage.

So, I wouldn't be too concerned about France having been particularly good.

I can't remember anything about Slovenia, if I'm honest.

So, yeah, I

I don't think it is that unbalanced.

Because, as I say, Austria are the best team I've seen so far.

What do you think, Jonathan?

I I do think it is unbalanced.

I can see Barry's point, but it feels

really unbalanced to me in the sense.

Not massively unbalanced, but the teams that I would imagine would win it, or that I would want to watch, even, are on that, probably mostly on that side of the joy.

Even Georgia, for example, who I can't wait to watch next.

Whereas Netherlands,

I feel like the other side of the joy, there's a lot of teams that have kind of flattered to deceive cough, England, cough,

or

just don't have a huge amount of quality.

For example, Romania,

although they've got great fans and they're nice to watch, I don't think they're amazing.

Netherlands as well, I don't think they're all that.

So, quality-wise, I do think the other side of the draw is stronger.

But I kind of see what Barry says as well, because it's not as if it's every single good team is on one side and then every terrible team was on the other side.

But there will be challenges on that side of the draw because I think Austria, as I agree with Barry, in that sense.

I think Austria had been arguably the best team of the tournament in terms as an all-round team.

Switzerland, I think, have been pretty decent as well.

Italy are quite limited, but I feel that that's at least an evenly matched game, and it won't be easy if England do go through against either of those sides.

So, yeah, I think hopefully that answers my question.

But I do, I think, when you look at Germany,

France, Spain, those are my three teams that I think are the strongest, and they're all on one side, obviously.

Can I ask you, Max, how sad you'll be when England gets knocked out of Euro 2024 by Slovakia?

I'll take it.

You know, I've been there

my my expectations are low you know because everyone was saying oh when that you know when we get to the knockouts we'll play a team that likes to come onto you and that'll be okay now you're like that that that isn't going to happen we're going to get you know this is round four of utter misery you can just feel it can't you at last you were going to come in i mean you are getting slight Euro 2016 vibes about this setup.

You know, England are deeply underwhelming in the group stage, but they go through and they get a team in Iceland, an unfancied team that everyone thinks, well, England aren't very good, but they've been lucky with the draw here, so at least they'll win that.

And then, you know, they don't.

Having said that, I do think they'll be Slovakia.

And I honestly think, like, but

having watched, I think, watched pretty much every game of the tournament so far,

it is incredibly hard to see a team from that half of the

draw who you think, yeah, they'll totally be in the final.

It is the Austria thing, but I still don't fully trust that.

I wonder what happens when they come up against the more dangerous opponent.

But then, will they come up against the more dangerous opponent?

Because they've got Turkey now.

But Turkey-Austria is fun, right?

That is the Dust Fun machine.

Like, that is just the most fun game

on this docket.

And then they play Romania, who, you know, as you saw earlier today, and Jonathan was watching that closer than any of us.

They work really hard and they're very passionate.

But again, they finished up with a pass accuracy of like 70% against not a very good team.

So they're not, you know, they're not amazing.

They play, they play the Dutch, who are also quite bad.

So, like, I don't know.

We're going to have, I love this because the fact that so many teams are not at their best, it means we're, there's a real chance that we get one of the underdogs going really far in this tournament.

And I think that's cool.

I love that.

Yeah, Graham does say.

England are going to get to the final of these Euros after the worst group in history and knocking out a knacked Slovakia, Switzerland, and Austria and scoring a total of three goals, aren't they, Barry?

I have the absolute fear, he says.

Yeah, I presume graham is of the celtic vintage well i i got a slightly

smug

uh text message from ellis james yesterday and i i went you've you've gone too soon you've gone too soon with the smugness mate

i've got the fear as well and i know our friend barsa jim does too and ellis ellis hasn't helped oh really well you know ellis is definitely you know he's in line if if england get far, you know, to recreate all those past glories/slash pains for some of us.

Look, after the England game yesterday, they were doing their interviews while we were doing the pod.

And we certainly couldn't be bothered to stay up, to, you know, listen to that and then do the pod.

And Gareth Southgate said, you know,

the fans have created a strange environment.

He said, I understand the narrative towards me, and that's better for the team than it being towards them.

But it's creating an unusual environment to operate in.

I've not seen any other team qualify and receive similar i understand it i'm not going to back away from it but i'm very proud of the players for how they're operating within it the most important thing is the supporters stay with the team um

i mean i guess jonathan he has to say he can't say yeah we've been shied like he can't like i'd love him to but he can't i guess he can't do that and none of the players can do that so they just sort of have to tread this careful line of saying we're doing okay it's okay yeah i really feel for southgate and i can't quite put my finger on why, because I understand the criticism and I understand the context behind why England fans are kind of generally fuming at him, but there's just an air of sort of sadness I feel.

And I was reading Johnny Liu's piece on The Guardian earlier, which I thought was really good and sort of encapsulated it fairly well.

And just even even in the first half, when he walked, I remember before the match, we walked onto the pitch and sort of went to clap the fans.

And there's such a huge disconnect between the fans and him.

And when you look back on past tournaments and how it started, it started so well, isn't it?

It's like a beautiful romance.

Everyone wearing waistcoats and

the happiness that the nation felt.

And it's just gone sour, like a sort of like a bad, bad relationship.

And I do feel like he's leave.

I feel like it's kind of well known that he's probably going to leave at the end of this tournament.

I think he knows it.

I think the nation knows it.

The fans know it.

Everyone kind of feels it's time to move on.

And it's just dragging on like a sort of bad relationship as I mentioned.

But at the same time, England could still go and win this tournament.

Like you've said, there's still reason to be optimistic england won the group so there's this you know getting getting paper cups thrown at you for drawing when you've already qualified as top of the group there's just a huge disc in it isn't there between the reality and kind of how people feel it should be but how it should be isn't necessarily i mean look at belgium have been pretty poor france have been average even taking Mbappe's broken nose to one side and the mask and the reasons behind it.

There's not been any sort of standout incredible team so far.

So there's no real reason for England to feel as miserable as everybody's sort of feeling.

But I guess that is the nature of being an England supporter and the England national team in a way, isn't it?

And I don't know.

I just feel a little bit sorry for him because I just feel like he knows that he's done with this and he's ready to sort of move on without really saying it.

Yeah, I mean, I guess last one big result changes the mood, right?

And it gets people excited.

And that is...

That is eminently possible.

Yeah, I think Southgate could do with learning from Didier Deschamp here, which is because I mean, the two have many of the same thoughts about how to manage a football team, it seems to be.

But he was asked about, you know, because they've been accused of being boring as well.

And he said something along the lines of, well, if people think it's boring, they can change the channel.

Like, you could just, I don't, the idea of going into management speak and say, oh, you know, yeah,

it's an unusual environment.

And, yeah, we're trying our best to make the country proud and all this sort of stuff that you say.

It just comes across as really weak to me.

And I think that sort of vibe will transmit to the players and the squad as well.

They were like, oh, oh, no, we're trying our best.

We're trying so much.

Like,

sorry, just come out and say, listen, we've prepared for this tournament for a long time.

We have our ideas of how we're going to go about it.

We've done well in previous tournaments.

We believe in what we're doing.

And I believe the results and the performances will improve.

That's your answer.

Like, don't start about, oh, no, it's very difficult.

Like,

I want them to be a little bit more bullish.

I think they're very defensive, a lot of them, a lot of the time.

It's weird.

They will like you when you win.

If you don't, it doesn't matter.

Now, Barry, you mentioned you wanted this joke killed yesterday.

But Joseph says, should all England players be sent one of Barry's socks for the nine months before an international tournament?

And I thought it was too good a question

to leave out.

Yes, Phil Foden has travelled home to attend the birth of his third child.

He's hoped to be back for Sunday's games.

Do you think, Barry, this kind of gets

Southgate out of a hole?

Yes, it does, because I think he will now bring in Anthony Gordon, Gordon, which was almost certainly a change he was considering anyway.

But he can use the excuse that

Phil Foden, you know, all going well, he'll be back on

Sunday, but you know, he's missed training.

So, yeah, I mean, I actually thought the whole would save him from his dropping Bellingham because I would have, you know, on form, I would put Foden in the 10 and put Bellingham on the bench.

But maybe it's, you know, I mean, and start Gordon.

But, I mean, I'd probably start Palmer as well, but maybe I'm just being really just total recency bias of what I saw in the last 15 minutes compared to the previous 75.

Anyway, we shall, it's only Slovakia.

We could play any of our squad.

Doesn't matter, does it?

Paint my face, it's coming home, etc.

Michael says, a nod to David Squires' piece on Scotland facing the music after another war tournament exit.

A bare-chested Steve Clark and the line, you spend 38 years celebrating Maradona, and this is how they repair you.

Absolute comical brilliance.

Yes, credit to David Squires, whose cartoons are, as you'd expect, absolutely brilliant.

And he is watching all these games on Australian Time, which it must be very, very difficult.

So

good, good for him.

Joey says, hi, Max Barry and the gang.

First time emailer, long time enjoyer of the will unwin anecdote.

On his latest pod, Gary Lineker sang Johnny Liu's praises and read out a section of his piece on the England-Denmark game.

How are the rest of the panel feeling about potentially being dragged into England's team's controversy?

Is Barry ready for oh no, it's another sock-based email.

Do you want me to take these out?

Is Barry ready for Harry Kane to address the nation about his sock comments?

Thanks, as always.

Joey, Phil says, with Gary Lineker citing Johnny Lou as his favorite football writer in his podcast, and Jonathan Wilson being cited by the football ramble, is this podcast responsible for setting the agenda against the England team?

And when will you apologise to Gareth Southgate Lars?

I ever say so.

I will say this.

If I ever say something rude about the England team and a clinically insane journalist puts it to, because he would have to be, but if a journalist puts it to Gareth Southgate or or Harry Kane at the press conference, at least I'm not going to back down and pretend it's the journalist's fault like Gary Lineker did.

Well, I mean, I'm waiting for a Guardian journalist to quote me saying, you know, Max said on this pod this about England, you know, and then see what they say.

You know, we could, it's a smart move, isn't it, for the Guardian to promote the podcast?

I read

about that Lineker thing, and I agree with him.

It's an easy cop-out for a journalist to say, oh, Roy Keene said this or Gary Lineker said this, when, in fact, they're only saying that because, you know, I agree with them, but I can say it's their fault.

So, you know, you don't have a go at me.

And while we're on the subject of managers, by the way, although we aren't really, how did Ange Postacoglu not think that shirt pull or think that shirt pull on Cristiano Ronaldo should never be a penalty?

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't see him say that, but he was on ITV's Ponder Tree, and him, him, and the referee expert they have in

Miss Uncle,

yeah, they both said, No, I shouldn't be a penalty.

And I'm going,

are you crazy?

Like, that is just bat shit.

But anyway, it doesn't matter.

Yes, I thought, I thought it was a foul.

Anyway, we've probably run out of time.

Liam says, Rushton, how very dare you get Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles wrong?

Splinter was the Turtles' mentor, and Shredder was the baddie.

Thank you for rewriting what is a scandalous wrong and I apologise.

But I do hope that, you know, whoever goes to the press conference asks Gareth Southgate about that exact thing and see what he says.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

We're off for a couple of days to celebrate finishing the group stages.

Well done, everybody.

You can, oh, we've been nominated for an award, Barry.

I didn't know.

Oh, have we?

Yeah.

British podcast, listener's choice, British Podcast Award.

It's one of those where I've got to go, I've got to start doing hourly tweets to win it because we'll be up against

something about politics.

Probably Ellis James and John Robinson.

Probably them and then something about food and something about politics.

But you never know, eh?

So, yes, please go to britishpodcastawards.com slash voting and vote for us many, many, many times.

Vote early and vote often.

Exactly right.

Although I didn't put a massive bet on when those awards, the award ceremony was.

I didn't know.

Oh, you're betting on us to lose, though, is the question.

Well, that's a good question.

That'll do for today.

Thanks, Jonathan.

Thank you, Max.

Cheers, Loves.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Barry.

Thank you, everybody.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Christian Bennett.

We'll be back on Saturday.

This is The Guardian.