England still stale against Slovenia but Austria look awesome – Football Daily

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Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. We're not creative enough, we're not positive enough, we're going to keep on getting bad results, getting bad results.
Getting bad results.

Speaker 1 Oh man, why is it so bad? Why did the England fans keep singing? Were they delirious? And yet somehow from the atrophy of Group C, England emerges. Group winners.
Zero goals in this.

Speaker 1 Zero goals between Denmark and Serbia. All the teams battling to be taken off the first, second, and third screens.
Meanwhile, Austria topped Group D, dark horses who might actually be good.

Speaker 1 We're not used to this and deserve 3-2 win over the Netherlands. A team with energy, balance, and purpose.
Imagine having one of them. France aren't at it yet.

Speaker 1 Just two goals for them, a penalty and an own goal. If either side was going to win it late on, it was probably Poland.
C'est le panique. We look ahead to tomorrow's games.

Speaker 1 There's the sad art of Luka Modric, the happy umpah band saying goodbye to Scotland and some new pod merch to think about. All that plus your questions.
And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 1 On the panel today, Philippe Auclair Bonjour Sava. Bonjour Sava.
Savabien. Mark Langdon from the Racing Post.
Hello.

Speaker 4 There's a saying, Max, you should always sell the sizzle, not the sausage.

Speaker 1 I think you've sold the sizzle perfectly.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much, Mark. Barry Glen Denning, welcome.
Bonjour.

Speaker 1 So somehow, England win Group C five points from three games. Denmark and Slovenia tied on everything, but Denmark finished above them.
We'll get to those reasons in just a second.

Speaker 1 Serbia bottom on two points. Before I bring in the panel, Jacob Steinberg had the misfortune of actually having to go to the game.
He's in Cologne. Jacob, a shudder to ask, but how was that for you?

Speaker 5 Very hot. It's very hot in Cologne, 28 degrees at kickoff.
So

Speaker 5 it's still pretty hot now. So it's pretty uncomfortable for us and pretty uncomfortable watching that performance because that was absolutely shocking from England.
Reminded me of

Speaker 5 probably had to go back to the World Cup in 2010 in the Algeria 0-0. It was absolutely appalling.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I will ask everyone this, but why is it so bad?

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 there's a lack of balance, obviously, in the team on the left. And, you know, poor crit, Kieran Trippius having to fill in there.
And, you know, I think he's defending just about okay at the moment.

Speaker 5 You know, it's tenacious in the things he's doing there, although he got the booking early on, where he looked quite slow. You know, he's been managing that calf injury since the end of the season.

Speaker 5 But he's not getting forward to support the attack. So on that side, they're pretty unbalanced.
Even though I think Foden actually was probably one of the livelier players tonight.

Speaker 5 And then, you know, the midfield itself is obviously didn't work in the last two games with Trent there tonight with Gallagher coming in.

Speaker 5 I think everybody, you know, you could understand why that call was made when you're worried about all the energy.

Speaker 5 But at the same time, I think a lot of people sort of saw, you know, that Gallagher, the type of player he is, there was going to be a lack of, you know,

Speaker 5 the lack of control that England have had in those first two games wasn't going to be fixed by Connor Gallagher coming in. And that proved to be the case because

Speaker 5 obviously he's been taken off at half time tonight. It was pretty humiliating.

Speaker 5 And it was pretty obvious watching from quite high up tonight that there were times where he was just hiding from the ball, it felt, you know, he he was in this sort of weird inside-right channel, and it just looked like he wasn't really showing for the ball.

Speaker 5 It actually took him until something like almost 11 minutes in to actually get a touch of the ball, which for a mid-fuilder

Speaker 5 just isn't good enough. And you saw that immediate difference actually when Maynard came on, when you know, when he came on, actually, he was straight away, straight in there,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 getting on the ball, making passes. So that lifted it a little bit, but then the attack is just

Speaker 5 completely not punching at the moment.

Speaker 5 Bellingham or payne looks just completely unfit saka looks unfit and he doesn't make the you know he leaves it very late to make any changes before cole palmer comes on so they just look like they're up you know they just look very predictable obvious slow and they kind of look like they just want to go home to be honest probably do us all a favor in a way and i feel like i'm such a gareth southgate apologist i don't know about you jacob but like i've always been so supportive and i'm just there going how are you not taking these players off who are really not playing very well yeah i mean it was interesting yesterday when we spoke to the players, when we did our

Speaker 5 briefings yesterday and we spoke to Becam Rice and he was kind of really, really energetic.

Speaker 5 You know, Rice is such an sort of enthusiastic person when he talks and he gives, you know, really makes you feel energized and everything. Then Gareth came along and it was just very flat.

Speaker 5 The energy felt flat when we spoke to him. And I wonder if this is just one too many tournaments for him.
It was interesting just now in the stadium. I don't know if it's been caught on.

Speaker 5 on television but he was getting he went to the england fans at the end and the england fans were actually brilliant tonight um you know it wasn't actually they didn't really turn on the scene at all because that happened in the Denmark game.

Speaker 5 But they kept going. But once the full-time whistle went and Southgate went to applaud the fans, he was getting booed by, you know, the booing was quite prolonged.

Speaker 5 And there were also a few, you could see a few cuts being thrown at him as well. He continued clapping, but that relationship with the fans, I think, is broken.

Speaker 5 This just feels like it's coming to an end.

Speaker 5 Even though weirdly, they're clawing through as group winners. And

Speaker 5 it's following they're going to play, I think, isn't it? So

Speaker 5 again, they didn't look great tonight. So who knows? And France has got out of their way as well.
Maybe we're just going to 0-0 our way to the final.

Speaker 1 Who knows? We could be absolutely terrible and win a tournament after all this.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Jacob. Appreciate it.
Thanks, guys. Jacob Steinberg there in Cologne.

Speaker 1 At least we were further away. At least we could just walk to the fridge and open it.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. I mean, where do we start?

Speaker 3 Barry.

Speaker 1 I mean that was so bad. Yeah.
It was a hard watch.

Speaker 1 Even I found it a hard watch and I revel in Badding's performances. But I was getting angry during the game.
It was

Speaker 1 just...

Speaker 1 They're slow. They're boring.

Speaker 1 They're devoid of ideas.

Speaker 1 They're all good players, but too many of them didn't turn up. I expected them to win this game with a bit of pizazz, I have to say.
And

Speaker 1 I can't believe they didn't manage to score. They didn't...

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 Slovenia, with the greatest will in the world, are pretty bang average. They're, what, 50-something in the rankings, I think.
We have to look at the positives.

Speaker 1 England didn't lose the top of the group.

Speaker 1 And they're in the

Speaker 1 easy inverted commas half of the draw. But we'll be talking about the Holland-Austria game later.
And, I mean, that was Austria were playing a different sport to England.

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah, that's a completely different sport, and that's Austria. I mean, I've criticised Southgate a lot.

Speaker 1 Barney always tells me I'm talking cobblers and says he's the greatest England manager since Alf Ramsey. That can be true, but it can also be true that his in-game management is atrocious.

Speaker 1 He's too worried about optics.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, what is the point of bringing Anthony Gordon on with two minutes to go?

Speaker 1 Why only give Cole Palmer 20 minutes when so many other people are playing badly? And

Speaker 1 despite what Jacob said, I thought most in the first half, most of England's best work was done down the left with Trippier and Foden. And Trippier got one brilliant cross in that cane.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure how he missed it. But

Speaker 1 yeah, look, I'll let someone else take the bat on now. But

Speaker 1 the one thing I would say is I'm on a WhatsApp group.

Speaker 1 As someone who's an England fan did post that England were similarly rubbish in Italia 90, and they probably should have won that tournament in the end. Yeah, no, that is true.

Speaker 1 I mean, we have been bad in tournaments before.

Speaker 1 Luke says, Do you like football anymore? I'm not sure I do. Charlie says, Is Group C the worst group of anything that's ever existed? Although we'll get to Denmark-Serbia in a bit.

Speaker 1 Did anything really happen, Philippe, in that football match? Not really, actually.

Speaker 1 I'm looking at my notes, and I think the most telling I have, I made in the first minute, after one minute, and I wrote, Three England players have just complained to their teammates about not offering an option for a pass or passing them the ball in the wrong place.

Speaker 1 You know, doing this thing with the arms. So Pickford, Gay,

Speaker 1 Achase Four, Kane, and Rice all did that gesture in the first minute. And this is where my head sank in my hands.

Speaker 1 My head sank in my hands, rather. And I thought we were in for a very long night tonight.
And

Speaker 1 it was atrocious. And

Speaker 1 it's incomprehensible. And I'm wondering if it's not something that the players themselves don't feel on the pitch.

Speaker 1 Is that if they look at each other and they see all this really terrifically gifted and skillful footballers and they wonder, how can we be so shit?

Speaker 1 You know, they're asking themselves the same question and say, Declan, why are we so shit? I don't know, Jude. Here's the ball, do something with it.
Maybe that's what's happening.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, England don't need a national team manager, they need a psychiatrist. I've maintained that for a long time, and I think that's the case.

Speaker 1 It was zero. Some of the decisions by Southgate were crazy.
I have to say, if I were Connoganaher, Gallagher, I would feel really let down as well. 100%.
Because I was used as a kind of

Speaker 1 response to things not going well by giving more energy in the midfield, and I'm pulled off at halftime. And I think that's a bit shitty.
Well, he's played out of position, right?

Speaker 1 Trent Alexander Arnold's not holding me through. I know Conor Gallagher wasn't playing there, but he normally plays behind what Enzo and Kaisedo, right?

Speaker 1 So he does bring energy, but he's got to change his game because Bellingham's there. Bellingham, I mean, Mark Bellingham did nothing today, and we know what a wonderful footballer he is.

Speaker 1 You can have bad games, but how he stayed on the pitch for the whole game is astonishing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, he definitely

Speaker 4 wasn't impacting the match at all.

Speaker 4 I was surprised that he stayed on. Just wonder from Barry mentioned optics.
I do wonder whether Southgate was slightly fearful of the crowd reaction if he takes off kind of England's golden boy.

Speaker 4 I know he hooked Harry Kane early in the game against Denmark, but I feel like it feels like an even bigger step with Bellingham because he, you know, he just won the Champions League, he was the standout player in the first game.

Speaker 4 He was as bad as everybody else, I think, against Denmark. And then when Phil Foden, arguably England's best player this evening,

Speaker 4 it wasn't a high bar, but I felt like he

Speaker 4 was sort of the most impactful of the players. Like, you know, Bellingham wasn't really getting beyond Kane, who

Speaker 1 had

Speaker 4 fairly average game himself. But

Speaker 4 it wasn't a great performance from Bellingham.

Speaker 4 I mean, I watched the first half and then switched on the ITV coverage for Denmark against Serbia at halftime. So I thought I'll watch the highlights of that one.

Speaker 4 So at least I get a flavor of what's going on. And I mean, they punished me by sharing the highlights of the England half-time games.

Speaker 1 That can't have taken long.

Speaker 4 No, Barry, there was the photo freak.

Speaker 1 You couldn't get away from it. You couldn't nothing.
You couldn't get away. It was like stalking you.
Wherever you went, you opened the cupboard, and there it was, the highlights of the first half.

Speaker 1 You ran down the stairs out of your front door, and there it was, that disallowed sacker goal just on loop over and over again.

Speaker 4 I mean, they showed the sacker goal, Foden-free kick, and maybe the cross from Trippier that was a blinding cross from the left-hand side. And then they switched to a competition.

Speaker 4 I don't know if that's to sort of pick the England team next time out.

Speaker 4 But no, I mean, to just echo what everybody else has said, really, it was a pretty dreadful um 90 minutes of football first prize in the competition is two tickets to the next england's eclipse second prize is four tickets

Speaker 1 listen we all knew where it was going barry but probably worth doing that gag you're right i mean the thing is right okay

Speaker 1 the positives if there are any of that it did look better with kobby manu it did look better with cole palmer and the question is barry And I think the answer is no.

Speaker 1 As someone who's loved what Garris Lathgat's done with this England team and considering where they're in 2018, but he has some massive decisions to make for this knockout game.

Speaker 1 And if he was gonna, if he was gonna say, right, who is in form, who is good, well, you wouldn't pick. You'd have to have a question mark over Bellingham because you could put Phone in the 10.

Speaker 1 Anthony Gordon actually probably did more in two minutes than Jude Bellingham did. I mean, obviously, you can have good games or bad games, but I think you've got some massive decisions to make.

Speaker 1 He does. And

Speaker 1 I wouldn't at all envy him because if he drops Bellingham, which on the evidence of Bellingham's last two performances he should do,

Speaker 1 and England lose,

Speaker 1 everyone will go mental because he dropped Bellingham.

Speaker 1 I mean, Kane did nothing in this game. Nothing.
Nothing. And his touch is off.
His touch is off. When the ball comes into him, it's not sticking.

Speaker 1 It's something he's really good at and it just isn't sticking. But it would take an incredibly brave manager to drop Bellingham and Kane and bring in, I don't know, Rolly Watkins and Cole Palmer.

Speaker 1 I mean, they're both fine players, but

Speaker 1 I was shocked. Like, I'd forgotten Kane was even on the pitch by the end of it.
He did nothing in the second half. I don't think he even touched the ball, did he? But anyway, he probably did.
But,

Speaker 1 yeah, big decisions for Garrett to make, and that's why he gets paid the big bucks. But the thing is, if England like make a mess of this tournament and crash out, he will leave anyway.

Speaker 1 You know, that'll be him done.

Speaker 1 So it doesn't really matter. Make make those calls.
And

Speaker 1 if they don't work, then you know, it doesn't matter because you're going to be leaving the job anyway. What do you think, Mark, on that, on the decisions that he has to make?

Speaker 4 I mean, he has got some. I mean,

Speaker 4 I feel like that's

Speaker 4 maybe, I mean, that's a step too far to just go, right? I'm not going to play Bellingham, I'm not going to play Kane, and I'm going to change absolutely everything that we've been working towards.

Speaker 4 I can understand why you might do that, but

Speaker 4 I did see bits of the second half with Maynu in central midfield, for instance. He carried the ball forward better than anybody else had done in that position.

Speaker 4 I thought Palmer, again, combined quite well with Maynu. And it's not the Sackers playing sort of any worse than any of those other forward players, but maybe there's...

Speaker 4 sort of pressure on him because Palmer can play out there. And I actually thought Bowen, when he came on in the first game as well, looked fairly lively.

Speaker 4 so there are some kind of decisions I do I suppose the hope if you're an England fan listening is that England have played against three

Speaker 4 defensive sides so far I think that that's fair to say and maybe

Speaker 4 if they do come up against a team that tries to attack them it works out for the better because there will be space for maybe Sacker to counterattack and Bellingham to make those runs in behind.

Speaker 4 The fear is that we don't actually know yet whether England's defence is as good as the record suggests of only one goal conceded because none of the teams have really attacked against them.

Speaker 4 And when Denmark did,

Speaker 4 it got shaky. So I wouldn't be confident that playing against a more aggressive kind of attacking team would benefit England.
But

Speaker 4 they'll struggle to, you know, they are struggling to break teams down.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they are. The thing which is really noticeable is that in any team that works about all right,

Speaker 1 when the player gets the ball, A, he knows what he's going to do with it without receiving it, and B, he has solutions, at least two solutions. And if you don't have two solutions, you have to

Speaker 1 temporize, put your foot on the ball, and the rhythm is gone. And I don't think there have been any occasions in this particular game where you had a feeling when an England player received the ball.

Speaker 1 And if you looked at his position,

Speaker 1 he might have two solutions, but one of these two solutions would be to give the ball back to Pickford, basically. And

Speaker 1 there was no movement.

Speaker 1 There are no combinations. You know, it's like

Speaker 1 I would say the comparison with the France game, which we'll talk about a bit later, but which was also shite

Speaker 1 in a different way. But for example, I could see that there's a beginning of an understanding between Barcola and Bapeme.
Even if it was not perfect, there were some interesting things happening.

Speaker 1 Here, I didn't see anything happen in terms of the connection between the midfield and the attackers and the white attackers in particular. There was nothing absolutely zilch.

Speaker 1 So it's a kind of exploration of existential nothingness in terms of what the play can be. And don't be surprised.
And it might not be a question of personnel.

Speaker 1 It might be that when you're suddenly sucked into this gigantic

Speaker 1 tornado of nothingness, whatever football you possessed, you lose.

Speaker 1 And Bellingham, okay,

Speaker 1 it wasn't great. I personally don't think that Phil Forden was absolutely fantastic either.
He was was okay, but he wasn't. He was better, though.
He was better. He was a bit better.

Speaker 1 He was trying to make things happen. I mean, I have my TV on here in the background on mute, and Gareth Southgate is being interviewed.
And I can't hear what he's saying, but I know what he's saying.

Speaker 1 Everything is fine. You know, we could have been better, but everything is fine.
And in a way, he's kind of right. And it might work to England's advantage, you know.

Speaker 1 You never know, because now they're in the easy part of the draw. Yes, I mean, we are.
we are, well, we are part of the easy part of the draw, I would say.

Speaker 1 But everyone else, you know, like you come third, you think, oh, we're going to play someone who's finished top. You look at the sides finishing top, you think, God, we'd love to play this team.

Speaker 1 But yeah, who knows? We've had bad groups before, and it's been okay.

Speaker 1 I don't really, I don't really have anything else to add to that. I mean,

Speaker 1 I'm wondering how much, how much of this is so bad to listeners? I mean, it's a catharsis. Some of it is catharsis, right? It's got, oh, just hearing other people go, God,

Speaker 1 because I'm so bored. I'm just sitting there going, I'm really enjoying this tournament, except when England are playing.
And I'm not usually like that.

Speaker 1 You know, Barry, I'm normally like, you turn into a cockney. You turn into a cockney cabby.
Yeah. I'm carried away, but here I'm just sitting there thinking.

Speaker 1 No, I was angry during the second half, and I want England to fail.

Speaker 1 And I mean, now we have to talk about Denmark and Serbia, which I'm happy to confess I haven't seen a kick of it. And from what I've heard, I don't want to.
There was a moment, right?

Speaker 1 So I'm watching the England game and it's on my second screen. So the TV's up on the way.
I've got the iPad for the second game.

Speaker 1 And I look down and Dusantadic is running towards the crowd, sort of like arms aloft. I'm like, oh, Serbia have scored.
Okay, that's good for England.

Speaker 1 And then I, and then like, nobody's, you know, they're not showing a replay or anything. And I'm thinking, this is weird.
And basically, he was celebrating because he'd won a corner.

Speaker 1 corner it was like this is the most exciting thing that could possibly have happened in this match um

Speaker 1 there was this was bleak i mean i it's hard to know because i didn't really see every second of it and we have some danish listeners who'll be able to fill us in i guess but i'm not sure if any if you you have anything to add mark or philippe but i mean basically nothing happened I mean, I looked at the stats after an hour, and Serbia's expected goals on the metric I was seeing was 0.05.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that was the highest XG of all four teams at that moment.

Speaker 1 I'd just like to assure listeners, we have already recorded parts two and three.

Speaker 1 They're a lot better because the football is a lot better.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is just, as you say, Max, it's bleak.

Speaker 4 We should also, I think, maybe just shout out Slovenia. I mean, that is an

Speaker 4 incredible effort from them. They were the rank outsiders in the group, Competed very well, I thought, in every game.

Speaker 4 It wasn't against England, it wasn't as if Oblak was kind of making save after saver. The only one he really made was the

Speaker 4 one from Palmer towards the end. And against Serbia, I thought they were the better side for a large part of that.
So well done to them in making it through.

Speaker 4 And, you know, I suspect they won't go too much further, but it's still, I think, a great achievement for them. All right.

Speaker 1 Well, that'll do for part one. Part two.
Already recorded with more energy and more happiness.

Speaker 1 We'll be back in a second.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Group D then finishes with Austria winning their group on six points, France with five, Netherlands on four points, and Poland with one.

Speaker 1 Let's start in Dortmund, where France didn't win.

Speaker 1 They drew with Poland and Philippe, they're through.

Speaker 1 Just one win, no goals from open play, an own goal and a and a penalty. Is there a podcast where Jean-Pierre Papin and Thierry Henri are calling this all merde?

Speaker 1 Not that I know of, but maybe we should start one actually.

Speaker 1 It was all a bit merdique, I have to say. I mean, again, lose of chances, again, a very strange game in which France seems to have everything,

Speaker 1 you know, they have everything in control. Then Poland

Speaker 1 who had nothing to lose but nothing to win either, comes back into the game.

Speaker 1 And to be honest, at the end, towards the end of the game you felt if there's going to be one winner here it might well be poland and um very strange game very frustrating certainly not one that gets you on the edge of your seat unless you want to scream could you play some football please um

Speaker 1 and in the end qualification which by the way France is the only team to have qualified from every World Cup and every Eurogroup since 2012, since the Diadition arrived and took over.

Speaker 1 So that's something.

Speaker 1 But we are now all agog at the prospect of who we're going to meet in the next round because it could be a bit fruity because they're playing the second team in Group E, which could be Belgium. Wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So is there a...
Do you, I mean, obviously the game's just finished and Jonah, you haven't asked me to do that. I'm still depressed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're still depressed, but you haven't asked every French person how they feel. But is there sort of like an immediate sense of anxiety as to what isn't quite working yet for France?

Speaker 1 Or you've won so many competitions, so you'll be fine.

Speaker 1 No, no, it's not anxiety, it's more frustration, and you wonder what exactly is wrong. I mean, some of the team selection was surprising, not surprising, if you see what I mean.

Speaker 1 Like, you rest Antoine Guizmann. I can understand that.
He's perhaps the most important player in the team, whatever people think of Kirnen-Bappe. So it's a chance to rest him.

Speaker 1 France has already qualified. That's fine.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 what we see after that is so timid, so shy, so lacking in rhythm.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you have to question Didier Deschamps' choice of it's not necessarily just the people he chooses to be on the field, but it's the way he deploys them.

Speaker 1 If you look at the midfield of Tremini, Conte and Rabiot, whatever we think of the individuals,

Speaker 1 it's a midfield that's also got some attacking potential. But apart from a few runs from His Majesty in Golo I,

Speaker 1 we hardly see anything. Rabio was transparent.
Tramini barely went into

Speaker 1 the other half of the pitch, had a couple of shots from afar, which gave absolutely nothing. And he wasn't very convincing when he did that.
And so as a result,

Speaker 1 there was nobody really threatening Poland in their box.

Speaker 1 Bappe, who I thought was quite sharp, looked quite sharp apart from this awful miss at the at the end, a miss which wouldn't have been a miss because there was a pen at the other end.

Speaker 1 Um, he looked really sharp, and there were some interesting things happening between him and Barcola, but they were also stepping on each other's toes.

Speaker 1 Um, Dembele, I'm at a loss for words because he is infuri, he's not frustrating, he's infuriating because he's the one who provokes the penalty, right? So he's in a way the game changer.

Speaker 1 He regularly beats one, two, three players on his wing, and then he crosses the ball to the fourth post, or straight into touch, or aims it at a place where

Speaker 1 there is not going to be anybody anyway, or loses it. Then the next time, he actually is quite good.

Speaker 1 He does his work defensively, he gets the ball back, then he runs again, then he loses it again, and it's like that for 90 minutes. And

Speaker 1 I'm losing the power of speech because could we try something different, please? It hasn't worked. What about Kingsley Command, for Christ's sake?

Speaker 1 I feel like Barry must feel whenever I'm complaining about England, when you're complaining about Didier Deschamp, going, if only we could have a manager. I'd kill for a manager who's won this much.

Speaker 1 It's like it's John Cleese and the two Ronneys, isn't it?

Speaker 1 You look down on me, and I look down on Barry.

Speaker 1 It was a game of two penalties, Mark, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 And we might as well go through them because there wasn't a whole lot of other stuff.

Speaker 1 Like, Den Belly does win that penalty. It's a terror.
It's a sort of hopeless defending from Guvio, actually.

Speaker 4 I'd say it's hopeless defending from Uper Makano

Speaker 4 as well.

Speaker 4 And you know, when we're kind of analysing Didier Deschamps team selection, that is always whenever Upekano makes a mistake, that will always come back as to should he be in the team?

Speaker 4 Are there better options at centre-back? There are clearly, I think, a lot of people that feel like Uper Makano just will make mistakes during a game, during a tournament that could cost France.

Speaker 4 You know, this one maybe doesn't come back to bite them, but he just feels so rash

Speaker 4 at times to me. He can kind of play well for nearly 90 minutes and then do something rash.

Speaker 1 It's like

Speaker 1 a luxury defender. It's like there's attackers who are quiet for 88 minutes and then do some piece of brilliance.
He's the opposite. He can be solid for 88 minutes and then do something hopeless.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that sort of classic languid, I don't know, sort of playmaker type person. Sorry, Philly.

Speaker 1 No, I was going to say the expression on his face as well when he does the foul. And there are those five seconds when people are wondering, is it a penalty or not? And you look at his face.

Speaker 1 Just look at his face. Yes, it's a penalty.
He's really, he's the guy who's farted in the lift, isn't he?

Speaker 1 Do you know what? When they replayed the Stuart Armstrong Scotland penalty after the game, saying, well, look, if Uber McCarnas is a foul, which we think it is, then surely that's a penalty.

Speaker 1 And do you know what? I think it changed my mind.

Speaker 1 Maybe I was just listening to the pundits, but it made me feel like perhaps scotland did deserve that penalty after all however long ago producer joel made a good point does the mask make it easier for mbappe to give a keeper the eyes like now like what does the what can the keeper do because he's looking at mbappe um i don't know but a lot of people have made the comparison about mbappe in that mask looking like one of the teenage mutant ninja turtles and it is uncanny isn't it it's absolutely amazing i i queued for four hours to watch that movie didn't um didn't somebody one of his teammates give him a Donatello mask or something?

Speaker 1 Isn't that his nickname or am I completely barking? It may well be.

Speaker 4 Martha Turan made the joke before the tournament started that he was talking about Mbappa and he said at least he didn't look like a teenage mutant ninja turtle.

Speaker 1 Right, and now he's got the mask. It's really good.
I mean who's who's Splinter in this?

Speaker 1 Who's the little rat?

Speaker 1 You know, is he the enemy? I think he's the enemy.

Speaker 1 And also

Speaker 1 there was a big person with a sort of pink squidgy thing right in his chest. Someone will correct me on all the characters in Teenage Mute Krang or something.

Speaker 1 Anyway, the Lewandowski penalty, perhaps more importantly, Philippe, how do we feel about those stuttered run-ups? So it feels really harsh on Mike Magnion.

Speaker 1 If you're going to do a stuttered run-up, the keeper should be allowed to come off his line. I was going to say exactly the same thing.

Speaker 1 It didn't feel like Mike Magnion was getting any extra advantage from doing what he did, which is to try to stay on his line and balanced.

Speaker 1 And the thing is that if you're balancing yourself on your line and and the striker takes about four minutes 33 seconds to to come to and hit the ball of course your your balance your muscles are starting to uh to tighten you're not as on your toes as you should be and it was yeah it was um i really felt for mike menyon um who nearly by the way saved the the second one as well it was a perfect one the second yeah you did guess right it was you know there's nothing much you can you can do about that.

Speaker 1 But I felt

Speaker 1 a little bit unfair for Mike Menon, who is having a superb tournament, it should be said. You know, it's one of the great satisfaction, I think, in the French camp.

Speaker 1 As should be, by the way, Skorowski in the Polish goal. He was absolutely magnificent.
The Polish goalkeeping school is not dead. It's still producing great products.
Well, he's 33, only his 11th cap.

Speaker 1 First tournament game because, yeah, Czezny is retiring, isn't he?

Speaker 1 Yes, I did like on the penalty that was retaken. When Manion saved it, Martin Cohen's first thought was, Manion never moved.
Like,

Speaker 1 he did Lewandowski, and then he had to say, oh, yes, he did move in exactly the way you shouldn't move when a punish should be taken. But I mean, that is harsh on Martin, isn't it?

Speaker 1 What did you make of Mbappe, Mark, in this game? Yeah,

Speaker 4 I thought he was good.

Speaker 4 Yeah, there was no sign of the mask impacting his performance.

Speaker 4 on another day um he ends up with another couple of goals might even have had a penalty really late on it was I you know I felt like it it was going to be given actually it was really tight to being inside the box and close to being a foul as well I know it wasn't given but yeah I feel like his performance playing in the role that he doesn't absolutely love as the the central striker was you know was was very dangerous

Speaker 4 I still think he's better just off that left-hand side.

Speaker 4 So whether he, you know, how Deschamp gets Mbappe out on the left and all the other players that he wants into that team still remains to be seen. But I agree with Philippe sort of earlier on.

Speaker 4 I think you'd get more out of Mbappe if like Griezmann was there just linking all of the play together because the three in midfield that are all very good players in their own right, just it's maybe one too many when you haven't got somebody to link the play and just get those forwards going.

Speaker 4 It felt like a lot of the play was down those wings and almost predictable at times in the way that France were attacking, albeit with a lot of quality. I would also shout out Poland.

Speaker 4 I mean, for a team that was out of the competition,

Speaker 4 clearly a worse side than France as well, and what might turn out to be a very difficult group when we look back on it when the tournament is over.

Speaker 4 I felt like they played better than in some of their other tournament performances, even when they've gone further.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 1 And especially after the equaliser, they look like the team that were going to win it. It all means that Germany, Portugal, Spain, and France are all on the same side of the draw.

Speaker 1 So that is good, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Let's go to Berlin. It was very hot in Berlin.

Speaker 1 That heat transferred to the minute-by-minute centre where Barry was sitting. Nedland 2, Austria 3.
Brilliant game, Barry. Hard for you, hard for the players, but Austria, really impressive.

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's make it all about me. It was a traumatic minute-by-minute to do.
What a fantastic game. Another brilliant, brilliant game in this competition.

Speaker 1 And Austria won by the odd goal in five, and I think they thoroughly deserved to win. They were outstanding in the first half.

Speaker 1 Well, they were outstanding throughout, but the Netherlands were curiously lethargic and ponderous in the first half.

Speaker 1 And Austria might feel they should have punished them more in the opening 45 minutes. They went to scored another quick goal.
I think this one was after six minutes.

Speaker 1 Alexander Prass was being given the freedom of the left side of the pitch by Danielle Mallon and he made a run down the pitch.

Speaker 1 Mallon wasn't tracking him, and then when he crossed the ball into the area, Mallon was on hand to poke it into his own nest. So that gave the Austrians an early lead.

Speaker 1 Mallon then went on to miss an absolute sitter that would have equalised for the Netherlands. I thought he might actually get subbed off.
He was playing so badly.

Speaker 1 But it was Joey Veerman, the midfielder, he was replaced in the first half by Ronald Kuhlmann,

Speaker 1 who sent on Xavi Simmons. Kuhman obviously got stuck into his players at halftime.
I'd say he tore into them but they seriously upped their game in the second half.

Speaker 1 Equalised immediately through

Speaker 1 Cody Gakpo who's nice goal, a three on two counter-attack. So I think Simmons played Gakpo in.
He scored.

Speaker 1 Romano Schmid scored a fine goal. He was brilliant for Austria.
And Memphis, the pie equalised for the Dutch. A lovely finish after Wout Weghorst had been sent on.
Ball into the box.

Speaker 1 That was the Dutch tactic by this point. Send balls into the box.

Speaker 1 Depay would win them and try and tee up the other. So it was a lovely cushioned finish from Memphis, which the referee disallowed because he thought he'd seen a handball in the build-up.

Speaker 1 But there had been no handballs. So he went to the monitor, had a look, awarded the goal.
And then you kind of felt that's that's going to be that. It'll finish two all.

Speaker 1 But no, the Austrians weren't done. And

Speaker 1 our old pal Marcel Spitzer

Speaker 1 scored with a rocket at beating Bart Verbruggen at his near post. And about a minute later,

Speaker 1 someone else almost beat Verbruggen, or did beat Verbruggen, with a shot from the byline that crept in at the near post, but that was correctly disallowed for offside. But Austria won.

Speaker 1 They win the group. They are going to take some stopping, I'm telling you.
They are so impressive. And Ralph Ranyak has got a brilliant team.
Look, every single one of them was outstanding.

Speaker 1 All the subs who came on were good.

Speaker 1 And they're really going to, you know, a lot of teams will fancy them because they won't have seen them play, maybe. And I think it'd be a big mistake because they're a brilliant side.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and actually, Mark, they've got...

Speaker 1 They've got energy, right? Which a lot of the sides don't. I mean, it's the way Ranik wants to play, of course, but they, you know, I'm trying to think of other teams.

Speaker 1 Germany in that first game, Germany a bit.

Speaker 1 Spain obviously do, but like in terms of just these guys are really running about a lot, which is perhaps not the most, only important part of football, like they're, they're, they're at it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, they are. I mean, it's been widely recognised that the fact that so many of them have come through the same system enables them maybe to have an advantage in that they don't have to kind of

Speaker 4 try to change their game for international football.

Speaker 4 Like we've seen a number of teams and they have got an identity but it's very rare to see in international football in a tournament situation where a team is able to play at this type of energy and I think other opponents are struggling to live with it it's just not the norm for international football I was worried about Ralph Randik's ability to be able to get as much out of his players like three games in a row over a short period of time and the weather is temperatures rising in Germany and he's changing the team around

Speaker 4 and so you're seeing players come in that maybe weren't starting at the beginning of the tournament.

Speaker 4 I mean, Baumgartner and Leimer, that you would say were two of the more important players for Austria, were wrested or rotated out of the team for this game and they looked no worse, which I think is a great sign.

Speaker 4 Agree with Barry in terms of you really wouldn't fancy playing them in the last 16.

Speaker 4 They look a good side. I think you've almost got to forget the kind of your pre-tournament ideas of what Austria were.

Speaker 4 There is outside of the obvious teams, they've definitely been one of the best sides that I've seen. Even in the French game, they were brave,

Speaker 4 might have taken a point

Speaker 4 on another day.

Speaker 1 If not three. If not three.
They were by far the best side in the second half, and by far. And France could just about live with them, but you know, with spending a lot of effort.

Speaker 1 I think the only other team I can think which has tried to do that is Slovakia. But they paid for it it late against Ukraine because they didn't quite have the physical resources to deal with that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it's actually wonderful to see a team that is rewarded for its courage. I mean, it's absolutely fantastic.
In that first half, they were absolutely giving the Netherlands the runaround. And

Speaker 1 their two centre-backs,

Speaker 1 Max Woeber and Conrad Leimer, or sorry, Philip Leinhardt started. You know, one of them stays back, the other advances up pitch with the ball at his feet.
The full backs get forward.

Speaker 1 And they got caught out once for

Speaker 1 one of the Dutch goals, the Cody Gakpo goal, but they're just remarkably well drilled and well-organised. It's a real pleasure to watch them, I have to say.

Speaker 1 Talking of good organisation, like Virgil van Dijk is playing the whole of Austria on side for that winning goal, isn't he? I mean, and it was sort of so surprising to see.

Speaker 1 We all know what a brilliant player he is. But just in terms of that, you chuck a load of players together.

Speaker 1 they don't know each other, and comparing it to how Austria just seemed to be pretty seamless. I thought that was pretty glaring, Mark.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think, as well as Van Dijk, I mean, Van Dijk, he never shy of kind of passing the responsibility around when he's, you know, blaming other people.

Speaker 4 You see, he's very good at telling other people what they've done wrong. And there was one moment in the second half where he was furious with DeFry

Speaker 4 for, I think, not stepping out. So quite ironic in terms of that goal.

Speaker 4 I also felt that Ronald Kuhman's decision not to play what many people considered to be either of his best right backs in the game was interesting, given where the Austrian winning goal came from down that left-hand side.

Speaker 4 And Austria will play the runner-up in Group F, which at the moment is sort of favoured to be Turkey. So I think if you could get Austria v Turkey,

Speaker 4 that feels to me like a great game. I would hate it to be Austria against Czech Republic.
Feels like Czech Republic might be the time for team to do a horrible job on them.

Speaker 4 But yeah, I'm cheering on Austria v Turkey. That could be spectacular.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I did like this question from Matt after Marlin's own goal, taking them, I think, four or five clear as top goal scorers.

Speaker 1 If own goals end up as top goalscorer at the Euros, do they give the golden boot to Richard Dunn?

Speaker 1 I don't know if they thought of this idea or not, but they should definitely, someone should get Richard Dunn and get him over there.

Speaker 1 Romano Schmidt's, I think it was his header that took a touch off the Dutch player as well. It's got a bit.
Now, that's his goal. He was going in.
I mean, it was weird defending, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 Like, he did seem to like power at home. He could have used his other foot.
But yeah, it was a lovely header, wasn't it? We'll give him that one.

Speaker 1 Right, that'll do for part two. Part three.
We'll take a little look ahead at tomorrow's games.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Nice update from the Hungry Camp.
As head coach, Marco Rossi and coaching staff visited Barnabas Varga in hospital.

Speaker 1 He's undergone surgery on the broken bones in his face.

Speaker 1 A thumbs-up photo. Sat up in bed.
So, you know, at first thought when they put the screens up, it was pretty terrifying. So, good to see that he is on the mend.

Speaker 1 Tomorrow, Group E, and we don't have a lot of time to look ahead, but Group E is perfectly poised, isn't it?

Speaker 1 With Romania top of the group on three points, Belgium on three points, Slovakia on three points, and Ukraine on three points. Slovakia played Romania, Ukraine played Belgium.

Speaker 1 Who is going through, Mark? Well,

Speaker 4 Romania against Slovakia. That might be one of those

Speaker 4 handshakes before the game, and everybody's happy with a point. The draw would take both teams through.

Speaker 4 I'm sure Italy won't need reminding what happened to them with the Biscotti. Was it Denmark against Sweden, wasn't it, when there was a mutually beneficial draw in the previous Euros?

Speaker 4 Belgium, I would fancy them to beat Ukraine. Ukraine will feel like they need to win that game given the likely result in the other match.
And

Speaker 4 they came back well against Slovakia in the second match. I haven't been that impressed with them, having sort of suggested they might be the dark horse.
I don't think they've played that well.

Speaker 4 And Belgium,

Speaker 4 I've got a lot of firepower, so I would would expect them to be.

Speaker 1 You could be the dark cart horse.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Boxer.

Speaker 1 From Animal Farrow.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Have you been that impressed with Belgium, though, Mark? Because, you know,

Speaker 1 yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 Look, it's got to come good for Lukaku, right? He's got to score eight in a game, hasn't he? And all eight will be cancelled. Oh, dear.
Well, maybe. Yes.

Speaker 1 Lukaku's disallowed goals are second highest goal scorer after

Speaker 1 own goals. Yes, at this tournament.
Group F, Georgia, Portugal, Czech Republic, Turkey, Portugal are through. They've got six points in two games.
Turkey, three points.

Speaker 1 Chechya and Georgia have one point each.

Speaker 1 Barry, I mean, you really tipped Portugal before. They've won both their games.
I just wonder how impressed you have been with them. I've been very impressed.

Speaker 1 I think my main concern about them is Cristiano Ronaldo

Speaker 1 still being in the side. And I know he's scoring goals.
and you know, he famously and unselfishly set up his mate the other day when he could have shot himself. But

Speaker 1 when he's on the pitch,

Speaker 1 all the rest of the Portuguese players seem hell-bent on getting the ball to him when they don't. It's not necessarily the best course of action.

Speaker 1 So that would be my main source of concern over Portugal. But otherwise, I see no reason to change my pre-match opinion that they will win the tournament.

Speaker 1 Hopefully, as we already mentioned, Turkey will do the job over the Czech Republic, and so that we have the Turkey-Austria gung-ho battle in the last 16. Just a few other little bits.

Speaker 1 We mentioned that picture of Luka Modric holding the man of the match trophy. If you haven't seen it,

Speaker 1 I hadn't seen it in the time we were talking about yesterday. It is sensational.
And there is a Twitter account called Art But Make It Sports.

Speaker 1 And it has put Luca Modric next to Christ as the Man of Sorrows by the Master of Sanct Catherine 1475 by Boris Strubble. And the likeness is absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 1 And Luca Modric looks absolutely, looks totally desperate. There was a nice bit in the press conference where someone just said, I love you, never retire.

Speaker 1 And Modric said, oh, well, I think the time might come one day. I'd love to play forever.
But it was a nice, nice moment. Jamie says, not a question.

Speaker 1 Just looking for the comedy goal of the Scotland squad leaving their hotel to be acknowledged. Have you seen this, Barry? No.

Speaker 1 As the scotland squad are leaving the uh their hotel all looking pretty disappointed the uh hotel staff or whoever have set up an umpah band

Speaker 1 it's just really priceless so it's just grim-faced steve clark and player after player after player with

Speaker 1 so so john mc mcginn didn't have his chiralian hat on yesterday i'll bet he really didn't it was absolutely brilliant it's the cut it's the costumes as well yeah because they're wearing bavarian costumes it looks like something from a scene, a depiction of hell by Eurominus Bosch or something.

Speaker 1 Poor things. By the way, Max, honestly, if I think I'd love to play forever, if that's not the title of Luca Motorist autobiography, I don't know what should be, really.
So, so.

Speaker 1 You know, what a guy. What a player.
Love him. Finally, Martin says, congratulations on the daily pods.
It must be pretty intense at the minute. That's all right, Martin.

Speaker 1 Barry's sock is a very memorable moment. And a potential merch opportunity.
So

Speaker 1 that brilliant idea. We park it.

Speaker 1 Is it done? Is it done?

Speaker 1 I'm sure you said that to me once. So you said that about the shoe, didn't you? You said that about

Speaker 1 Munich. You said, it'll ruin my brand.
It's all right. We've got a new brand.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Munich's done. We're back with the sock, and yeah, we'll hopefully have them ready in store for the next live show.
And that'll do for today. Thanks, Barry.
Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Philippe.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Max. Cheers, Mark.
Thank you, Max. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.
Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.