Nice try Dortmund, but Real Madrid are kings of Europe again – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

I feel like we've been here before.

Real Madrid outplayed for large parts of the game, dominated in midfield in the first half, conceding chance after chance, and then just turning up after half-time, scoring a couple of goals out of not not much and winning the Champions League again.

Cut and paste any of the phrases from many of their six victories in the last 11 years.

A frankly ludicrous achievement for a team that never really blow anyone away.

Six for Cruz, Nacho, Modric and Danny Carvajal.

Five for Angelotti as manager to add to his two as a player.

It can't be chance.

As for Dortmund, some grade A ruing to be done today.

Ada Yami threw twice.

Brandt and Fulkrug with chances too.

You imagine at half-time, maybe they knew we all knew.

Also today, there's England, Scotland and the other Euros preparation friendlies to look forward to.

Some AOB, another bear, your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Archie Rin Tuck, welcome.

Hello.

Hello, Jonathan Wilson.

Morning.

How are you doing?

I'm good, thank you.

Hello, Jonathan Faduba.

Good morning, Mats.

And Barry Glen Denning, welcome.

Hello.

Appea Toja says, will you be reposting the podcast from last season?

Felix, are Real Madrid actually good?

Or is the universe on their side?

And Jonathan says, is it possible to talk about Real Madrid in the Champions League and not say, find a way?

Archie, you were there?

Some atmosphere.

You say that.

I was next to somebody who is on the Dortmund Yellow Wall every week.

And they were saying, you know what, there's something missing from the Dortmund atmosphere,

from what is usually there.

And that...

To begin with, everybody seemed like they were

in shock that Dortmund had actually made it.

And you could probably argue that when Kari Madayemi went through on goal, he was probably in the same frame of mind.

I believe that the Dortmund fans lighting flares in the stadium

makes them the first men to do that at Wembley.

But little consolation for what happened then in the game, albeit

such is my confidence in Brussier Dortmund when it comes to holding their nerve at the right time.

I wonder, had they scored in the first half, would they have been able to hold on through the inevitable barrage that would have come through the game?

What struck me was how

90 seconds after Marco Royce comes on, and this is meant to be his swan song, this is his final game for Brussia Dortmund, they just collapsed.

It's not his fault from the goal.

In fact, both goals you could probably put down to

impart the first one to Ian Martson, although I think they're marking zonally.

So he moves on to Nicholas Fulkroot, but the second one is obviously Martson's.

The fact that

Marco Royce throughout his career has been, it's all been about near misses, a guy whose career promised gold.

And then you have on the other side Tony Cross, who is of a similar generation, and his career has delivered it.

And you think that these players are on a similar level when it comes to ability and talent.

And you can see the, I guess, sliding doors in terms of decisions made in a career and how actually

the margins between achieving that, how those can actually appear

when you look at

how successful Cross has been and how so many near misses for Marco Royce.

But look, ultimately, Dortmund performed well and better than I think I or many others could have expected.

And yet at the same time, I think they were still some way away from winning this.

Yeah.

Wilson, by the time Real Madrid scored, the tide had turned, right?

They were the better side for most of the second half.

And was that like a tactical change or did they just start playing better?

Well, I didn't notice anything tactical.

But I mean, you're right.

There was a sense that Dortmund's chance had gone by then.

But I think we shouldn't.

underestimate just how many chances Dortmund had.

I mean,

they had, I think Fulcruck when he hit the post probably was was just offside.

Yeah, I think so.

But Adi Amy had two really good chances.

I mean, Adiyami, clearly, if he was half as good at everything else as he is at running quickly, he'd be one of the greatest players we've ever seen.

But his touch isn't quite there, is it?

And his concentration at times in terms of picking up players isn't quite there.

But he had two really, really good chances.

So there's this sort of seems to be this sort of movement, a sort of post-hoc movement to sort of say, oh, actually, we just don't quite see what Real Madrid are doing.

They're much better than we think they are.

This is part of the tactics of how they play the game.

No team sets out to give the opposition chances like that.

I think there is something to be said for Anchelotti's calmness, Real Madrid's calmness as an institution, their sort of belief in the things will just work out for them, that they don't get flustered by that kind of thing.

But at the same time, had he scored those two chances, they're 2-0 down and then maybe they don't come back.

Say they had gone behind, then Dortmund can play on the break, and you've got his pace, you've got Sancho on the other side, Fulco holding the ball up.

If they were teaming up, it's very hard to see how Eldrick could get back into it without giving more chances up.

So it's half time.

They had got away with it up to that point, as they keep on doing.

But then, yeah, they have the individual quality.

But even you talk about individual quality.

The first goal is a 5'7 bloke out jumping a 6'2 bloke.

Who hasn't scored for five years?

That's not a way you've planned to play.

That's not to do with individual quality.

That's something inexplicable.

I think it was a way they planned to play because the same small bloke had done exactly

the same delivery 10 minutes previously.

Now, far be it from me to

tell Jonathan about tactical changes that he didn't notice.

But I think

Vinicius Jr.

was very much definitely playing in a less, a more withdrawn role in the second half.

He was attending to the defensive duties that he hadn't either hadn't been asked to do in the first half or had been and just didn't bother with um and jude bellingham was

he he he was a bit further back sort of playing alongside tony cruise i think rather than further ahead of him i don't think anyone expected brussy dortman to win this game but I think they really threw it away.

They will be kicking themselves today.

They blew that.

They had a great chance to win that game.

They had a massive chance to win the game.

And as Jonathan points out, Adiemy

just felt a bit too inexperienced for the game, really.

There were certain players that just the occasion maybe got to them or they just lacked the finishing skills of Real Madrid.

They just seemed a bit rusty and not quite sharp, the sharpness that you need to win the Champions League.

And that's really what killed them, I thought.

I mean, Real Madrid, to me, they kind of feel like like a basketball team where they've got a shot clock and it's like Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan and they're just sort of bouncing the ball waiting for the shot clock to go down to zero and then putting in a three-pointer.

They just constantly get it done when it counts and without any kind of,

like you said, about their coolness about them, that air of calmness that Anchilotti maybe perpetuates into the squad.

So I guess

for the neutral who wants to see someone else maybe win the Champions League like Dortmund, they might be a little bit disappointed.

But at the end of the day, as Barry's pointing out there, they had huge chances to win it.

I thought that maybe on the day Sancho didn't really have a massive impact, and Adieimi was quite profligate and wasteful.

So, on either flank, they didn't really have a huge amount of service to Fulcru.

Fulker obviously hit the post.

I don't know if it might have been offside had it gone in.

So, there might have been a VAR check on that one, but you know, again, it didn't go in.

And yeah, just generally, once it starts getting into that second half, Ramadan had no shots on target in the first half.

Once it starts getting,

once that shot clock starts ticking down, you just kind of have that feeling about Real Madrid.

But again, even the goals, as you've mentioned there, Carver, you know, a five foot seven blow

getting freedom in the box for the header and a huge mistake from Mattson, who had a decent game, but again, he's quite inexperienced.

If you look at his CV to date, you know, playing in a Champions League final is a huge occasion for him, whereas Realm Madrid is surrounded by players who've been there before.

I mean, one of the things I quite enjoyed about the match and the occasion was Dude Bellingham, who hasn't played in a Champions League final before.

When the final whistle went, he just, I don't know if anyone saw it, but he just sort of like looked around and had no, it's the first time I've seen Dude Bellingham kind of not know what to do.

He was just kind of, he put his hands on his head and then he sort of looked down and then he was, he didn't know whether to cry.

It was quite a funny moment there if you catch the sort of 30 seconds after the whistle and just sort of ran around like not really knowing what to do.

Apart from that, Real Madrid, almost every other player has kind of got that know-how of how to get the job done and that now.

I don't even think it's one of those things where when you look at, for example, the annual revenues of the two teams, Real Madrid's annual revenue is double brushed dortmund's 831 million euros i think against 400 million euros roughly so you might say oh well they've got the the money to buy the best players which which they do but at the same time i don't i don't think that necessarily made i don't think that was the difference between the two teams that makes sense dortmund did have those chances they did create a lot of things i thought terzich did really well in terms of his coaching how he prepared the team for the game But ultimately, they just couldn't take those massive chances that they had.

And so they've only really got themselves to blame to a certain extent.

Just to mention mention on dortmund uh something that happened in the week before this to do with a new sponsorship deal which emerged with a company called rhein metal who are weapons manufacturers and for the club to announce it in this week when they know i mean for the club to do the deal in itself is a disgrace let alone announcing it in the week before the Champions League final because they know there there will be

it will not get quite the same media attention.

So credit to the Dortmund fans in the stadium for holding up a banner before the game and talking about protecting, trying to protect Dortmund from

sports washing.

That's something that is

going to rumble into the new season with Borussia Dortmund because, yeah, how you can sign such a deal with a company that is currently involved in war and is profiting from that, to say that does not reflect well on the club would be an understatement.

To try and somehow maneuver from that to Karimadayami, the first chance that he had, I thought

he went the wrong way.

His body movement was taking him to go round to the left of Courtois, and yet he stopped and then went round the other way, which allowed everyone to catch up with him.

Which I'm not going to say I thought that live,

and that's kind of also the point: is that because he's so quick, you think he has more time than he has, but the seconds go down.

And I thought Courtois did really well actually to get out that quickly to him.

And it shows you actually how elite you have to be to take that chance.

And that's something that Real Madrid do to you.

They will, the chances look big, but

the time to take them is limited quite quickly.

And even if Adiemy, look,

a good striker scores that, there was something about the way that, yeah,

even though he got into that position well, that Carver Hall and Rudiger were on the scene quite quickly after it is something.

I mentioned that partnership or commercial partnership with the arms dealer on Thursday.

It doesn't seem to be for very much money.

Like, it's about 7 million, which is obviously a lot of money, but not a lot of money in football terms, elite European european football terms why

it just seems really graspy and unnecessary if that's the amount of money involved about seven million euros or something like that are they getting a targeting system they could give to adieu

and wilson on tony crows ed aarons gave him nine out of ten and i wasn't sure he had it's obviously a one-of-a-woment for him i'm not sure he was a nine out of ten yesterday is that Fair or who's right.

Oh, I mean kind of ratings like ratings are kind of arbitrary numbers, aren't they?

Like, who cares?

I thought he was fine.

He was good.

I mean, I think he was playing a bit deeper than he often would.

I thought, I thought he was sort of knitting things together okay.

His set plays were

repeatedly dangerous.

Is that a nine out of ten?

Is that a six out of ten?

Is it somewhere in between?

I don't know.

I don't particularly care.

I thought he played fine.

You're really throwing Ed under the bus there, Max.

I mean, I don't mean it.

I think Ian Mattson got a seven, but the ratings were obviously

sent in before he gave the the ball away for the second goal.

Never read the ratings, okay?

Fine, fine.

And Ed Aarons was also working on a story simultaneously about the pitch invaders.

Oh, player ratings: the only people who care about them are players, and they should know better.

No, no, okay.

I mean, he didn't rate them, he didn't rate each of the pitch invaders.

I didn't

one of the problems with the ratings is they're basically always between six and eight.

You've got to do something exceptional to get more than eight, and something dreadful to get lower than six.

You're actually rating them.

But I just wondered, I just wondered, I I just thought I was watching Cross a lot, and maybe, I don't know, maybe because your judgment of a game comes a lot from the first half.

You know, when a team didn't, Ralberry didn't really turn up in the first half.

I would say there was no standout man of the match in that game.

And

Cruise, I mean, it was a big occasion for him.

He took a couple of good free kicks.

He sent in some, whipped in some nice corners.

And then Tony Cruise, he never does a huge amount anyway, does he?

Well, maybe.

Yeah, maybe.

Danny Carbow got man of the match.

And like we talked about him winning that header, Jonathan, he's clearly a like six Champions League, sort of never talked about.

And I wonder if he is, you know, the sort of, you know, he gets the most out of his ability, kind of like the Uber Robbie Savage, like the Champions League Robbie Savage of a footballer.

Yeah, I mean, I suppose when you're at Real Madrid, it's not too difficult.

You have to be at the maximum every day, right?

And you kind of wonder if it's like nature or nurture.

Is he that good or is it just because he's been schooled so well and is

maybe a good guy to have around.

He played all right.

I mean,

I find it quite interesting how irked he got by, I think it was a tackle by Matson or maybe Ada Yimi at one point where he offered his handshake and he was just like, get away from me, like and slapped his hand away, kind of quite sort of

comic baddie type thing.

Yeah, he's done well.

Obviously, you know, the players at Realm Madrid who've won it

that six times, that's the six club, as they call them, Carverhal, Nacho, Modric, and Cruz.

uh just obviously legends of the game and yeah i really enjoyed that that cruise moment it was nice uh and the fact you know the way he saluted the fans and kind of left the stage.

Modric came on and just showed that he's got that class as well.

Nacho lifted the trophy.

And obviously, they were talking about how I think on TNT they mentioned how Mourinho gave him his debut and he was given a few words about how he'd given him his debut when he was young.

Yeah, they've been around and done it and they're just all legends of Real Madrid.

I think we have to sort of talk about Vinitius as well.

I don't know about the Ballon d'Or kind of talk that maybe...

might come from this match.

I think the other favourites are kind of Bellingham and maybe one or two others.

I don't know who else really could maybe get it.

I guess maybe the Euros might have an impact on who wins it, but I thought Vinicius was classic.

Ryerson's had a really good season at right back, I think, in the Champions League for tournament, certainly in the last sort of few rounds.

But he just gave him such a torrid time.

I mean, there was that amazing nutmeg.

I don't know if anyone caught it where he just sort of flicks it, the little trick where he just puts it through his legs.

He's just a constant barrel of energy.

So good at dribbling 1v1s.

They basically had to have Humboldts on him as well, coming down from the right-hand side and sort of coming across to try and cover the cover.

There's a little bit of controversy around the potential dive, maybe might have been a second yellow, but I thought the first yellow was pretty harsh anyway in the first place because I thought it was a genuine attempt for the ball when the foul he made on the goalkeeper.

So, yeah, I think Vinicius was outstanding.

Bellingham, funnily enough, was fairly quiet

from the English point of view.

Didn't do a huge amount.

I thought he kind of maybe not nerves.

I mean, he set up the goal, obviously, he got the assist for the winner but uh for the second goal sorry but I didn't think he had a huge impact on the match um that was a fantastic tackle from Schlotterbeck as well um on him where he nearly scored but it was a great great sort of block um but and I thought schlottebeck by the way is one of those players who sort of comes out of the whole tournament on a on a sort of new level I think he's put himself on that kind of European stage where people sort of start to become a household name I think in a way because he had a brilliant campaign I thought Yeah, all in all, I think Dorman just kind of

they got the maximum amount of themselves in alongstair whole whole tournament, but in this game itself, they just didn't quite have what it takes.

And I think Carver Howell and players like that just showed how good they are and that experience they've got winning it so many times.

I disagree slightly on Carver Hal

only because the full Krug

and the Adiemi first chance are only available to Dortmund because Carver-Howell is being a bit lax when he's holding the line.

I say, if those go in, what happens?

Real Madrid probably score a little bit later in the game.

I've I've seen the mental fragility of Brussia Dortmund time and time again.

But at the same time, yeah,

I agree that I thought Bellingham was quite quiet.

It started to spark thoughts in my mind going, is he tired?

And how much of a break does he need before the Euros?

Yeah.

Oh, I was panicking.

Totally.

Bellingham hasn't played well for a few weeks, has he?

He's been, you know, his first half of the season was much better than the second half of the season.

Is that going to be the clamour?

We've got to drop Bellingham if we want to win the quarterfinals.

I mean, I genuinely watching last night was sort of thinking, I think maybe there is an argument.

Foden in the 10.

Yeah, Fon is a tan

play, play with the hold of alongside.

And then who plays the left?

Grealish.

Greenlich can play great.

Can Grealish do it at left back?

Look, we're talking about England in part two briefly, but Colin Miller, I thought, wrote an interesting thing about tweet about Real Madrid saying, look, they lost one of 51 across La Liga in the Champions League.

They lost in the Coppa del Rey as well once.

So the only games they lost with against Athleti.

This was done with Courtois, Minotau, Aliba missing virtually full seasons with ACL injuries.

They didn't replace the Ballon d'Or winner, Benzamar.

It comes down to Ancelotti and the environment he created for players like Lunin, Lucas Vasquez, Nacho, Josalu, Brahim, Ada Gula to make a huge positive contribution despite not being, you know, part of the starting, best starting 11.

They all fully buy into their roles and feel important.

And, you know, people have asking questions now, Barry, like, is Don Carlo better than Pep?

That's what Muse Muse says.

Luke also says, was Carlo Anchilotti at at Everton just one of those cheese dreams we all have?

But, you know, there's just something about Anchilotti, isn't there, Barry?

I'm not going to say he's better than Pep.

He has won more Champions League than Pep, that's for sure.

But then he's older than Pep.

He is

different.

And I think if I was a footballer, I know who I'd rather play for.

And it's Anchilotti, because he stands on the touchline.

He seems to have total trust in his players.

He's not micromanaging them all the time, almost to the point of, you know,

constantly being in the ear of whatever unfortunate fullback and winger happen to be his side of the pitch.

You know, his record absolutely speaks for itself.

I actually

was reading something, an interview he did recently, last week, and he was talking about his pre-match meal of salmon, broccoli, and pasta with a nice double cream sauce.

So I made it myself.

It was very nice.

All right.

I've never made my dinner based on something I've read in an interview with Pep Cardiola.

So, you know, I'm buying into Carlo.

But I think the difference between them is really telling, isn't it?

That Guardiola is obviously a much, much more intense figure.

And I think in terms of league competitions, that probably helps.

Angelotti's only ever won six league titles, I think.

Realmo is the only club where he's ever won, or Spain's the only country even

where he's ever won two leagues.

And I think maybe he just doesn't have the

drive to kind of drag a team through an entire season.

But the flip side of that is in knockout competition, because he has that calmness, he radiates that calmness of one-off games, players don't get the sort of the neurosis that I think you get off Guadiola that has cost Guadiola teams in

Champions League games repeatedly.

So

I think Barry's point that they are just different is, I think, very true.

Anchilottes works for cups and the Champions League, and Guadalupe's works for leagues, but less so for the Champions League.

Although it doesn't work for leagues, he's the only manager to have won the league in the major big five European leagues.

So that's still quite good.

Yeah, but he's also the manager who

he lost the French league to Montpellier.

Is that correct?

That feels like it's right.

Has he lost a Spanish title to Adletico, I think?

I mean, he probably should have won more more in his career, given the clubs he has managed.

But if you look at Vinicius Junior, he's now a genuine ballon d'Or contender.

And Ancelotti has made him that

out of a laughing stock.

Like when he arrived at Real Madrid, don't forget the time Benzema was instructing his teammates, don't give him the ball.

That's how bad he is.

I mean, I think that possibly says more about what a prick Benzema is than

but it wasn't until Ancelotti got his hands on him that he turned him into the player he is now.

Well, I mean, that's, yeah, the point about him being really good at getting the best out of everybody about being very inclusive.

You know, he's not somebody who sidelines players.

You know, he just suddenly decides, well, he's not good enough in the way that a Mourinho or a Conte or even a Guadiola does.

He's very...

And that, I think, is why he does get his performances out of...

Nacho and Lunan and Vasquez and players

who aren't sort of at that galactic level.

It's a pretty obvious point, but he's very different to Pepper.

I don't think you can

compare them in the sporting context of who's been more successful, but they're almost polar opposites in that sense, and that's already been explained.

I just love Angelotti's leadership qualities in the sense of that calmness that he radiates.

And it kind of suits a big club, really.

It suits being at a top club because I think, and I think Drew Bellingham mentioned it in a post-match interview, kind of the...

the pressure of being at Real Madrid.

He's like, you don't understand until you've been in it how much pressure there is.

And I think you mentioned the point about how five minutes after after training, something that happened in the training session will be leaked, and it's already all over the media.

And just that intensity of the pressure.

Someone like Anchilotti, who's just got that ability to take out that, take out the heat a little bit of that situation rather than maybe intensify it.

You know, Jose Marino was one of the panelists yesterday, and he was someone who could use that pressure and that intensity.

And he kind of harnessed it, didn't he?

And made it even more and use it to almost break Pep when they had that rivalry, Roman Jabbasa, in the way he manipulated it.

But Anchilotti does the opposite.

He kind of takes it all away and sucks it all away and just that probably gives the players a feeling of calmness to be able to go out on the pitch and and perform.

I really I think he's a brilliant manager and I think he's a brilliant man manager as well.

It was quite interesting watching when they scored.

He just has no react he has no reaction at all to like goals, bad decisions, exactly the same facial expressions throughout.

I just find it almost worthy of study how he manages to keep so calm in those situations.

You know, compared to Terzich, who was nearly in tears at the end of the game, the way he was so devastated about losing and obviously, you know, his situation, he's a Dortmund fan and

was a fan at Wembley the last time they were there

in 2013.

So, yeah, the massive contrast in that sense, but I just think Anchilotti's a brilliant manager.

And as Barry said, someone you'd kind of want to play for.

He's very cool.

I mean, do you see the way he was dancing at the end as well?

He's got a few, he's got a few moves.

Yeah, his dancing, having the bumps, not enough grown men.

You know, how old is he?

59 are given the bumps, are they?

He makes me want to smoke cigars.

On Lenny Kravitz,

Barry, Barney wrote, Wembley was a gorgeous place at kickoff.

The roof lamps blending with the evening gloom, creating a kind of silvery white haze.

Of all the moments not to stage a Lenny Kravitz gig, this felt right up there.

And yet a Lenny Kravitz gig happened all the same.

Did you enjoy that part of the show?

I was a bit perplexed by the presence of Lenny Kravitz, but then, you know, you a for whoever's in charge of booking the talent, the acts for these shows does seem to be stuck in a kind of 1980s, 90s time warp.

I was also bemused by the presence of Jay-Z,

who I believe owns some sort of talent agency that Jude Bellingham is a part of.

But

then I learned he was, in fact, at Wembley to congratulate the ground staff because

he has 99 problems, but the pitch ain't one.

Oh,

very good.

He apparently looks after Vinicius Jr.

not Jude Bellingham, Jay-Z.

As John Bruin writes, Lenny Kravitz last had a top 40 UK single, Show Me Your Soul, with Pharrell and P.

Diddy, in 2002.

Jude Bellingham was born in 2003.

On that security breach, all those involved were wearing t-shirts which appeared to bear the name of Belarusian streamer Melstroy, who I confessed to not being aware of until yesterday.

The 25-year-old was reported to have offered £300,000 to anyone who ran on during the final final with his name on their shirt.

It's not quite the same, but that guy with the flare up his bottom must be disappointed that he went a few years early because Melstroy would have offered him a fair whack, I imagine.

I mean, there's been a lot written, Wilson, about that and what a disgrace it is.

I wonder if there are 90,000 people in a stadium.

Can you possibly stop every if you know?

Am I being too generous to the security staff there to say someone might run on the pitch?

It's quite hard to stop people it is kind of their job and it's it's difficult right i mean on the one hand you know 90 000 people or 86 000 people there who've paid in some cases extraordinary sums of money they don't want to feel like they're being treated like you're like convicts or something you you you don't want the security to be really heavy-handed and in your face and and and sort of make people uncomfortable but at the same time i i think

it was not a surprise that there were pitch invaders yesterday.

You know, there's plenty going on in the world that that people are protesting about at the moment whether that's palestine whether it's just stop oil you know there's all kinds of things and so i think it was predictable that

it wasn't unexpected that something would happen

you know wembley has in recent memory staged the main major final that was you know fiasco from a security point of view so this wasn't as bad as that but you're starting to think well can wembley really be trusted to have studios but then you know you look at the istanbul you look at paris they were also really bad from a fan experience point of view, from a security point of view, from a safety point of view.

So I think UEFA's got a bit of a problem with these big games at the minute that it seems to have forgotten during COVID outstaged them and it's not doing them very well.

Just on the Rhine metal deal that Brussels Dortmund signed that we mentioned a bit earlier, Hans-Joachim Watska, the chairman of Dortmund, said security and defence are fundamental cornerstones of our democracy, especially today when we see every day how freedom must be defended in Europe.

We should deal with this new normal.

The Vice-Chancellor and Economy Minister Robert Harbeck called the deal unusual on Wednesday, adding that we unfortunately have to admit that we're in a different, more threatening world.

Just to answer Baz's thing on it,

they don't have to do it.

It's bollocks.

And Hans Joachim Vatska is somebody who,

whilst he has, in a football sense,

did well in the first decade to revive Borussia Dortmund.

His

lust for money and all things financial has,

I think, done bad things to the club.

And this is right at the top of them.

All right, that'll do for part one.

We'll start looking ahead to the Euros in part two.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game, Day Scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly, must be 18 years or older to purchase play or claim.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So let's begin with England then.

Lots of international friendlies.

England have two coming up this week, Bosnia and Herzegovina tomorrow night at St.

James's Park.

Iceland at Wembley on Friday.

Good chance to replay a bit of Steve McLaren watching those Iceland goals in Euro 2016, was it?

I've forgotten now.

Wilson, how much are you looking forward to these?

What are you hoping to see?

How much am I looking forward to them?

I didn't even know which days the games were on.

And when you said that, I was like, I really hope they're not Wednesday because I'm out on Wednesday night, probably should probably watch them.

I mean, pre-tournament friendlies they're of significance only if a team either has a disastrous tournament or a brilliant tournament.

And then, ah, yeah, we could see that in the friendlies.

I think we will read far too much into them.

I think they're important in the sense that this sort of two weeks building up to the tournament are important for preparation, but they're only a part of that.

I think England have specific questions to answer in terms of who plays as you know, the third midfielder alongside Rice, which may have knock-on effects to who plays on the left.

There's an issue at left back now because we don't know still whether Luke Shaw's going to be fit.

So it's a chance to

try and work out what's going on there.

But I mean, fundamentally, these games, I mean, I assume nobody's going to make me cover them.

Nobody's told me I'm covering them.

Even we're having a week off.

Even the pod is not doing them.

When I did have to cover them, I used to find them.

You always ended up writing about how fast the paper arrow playing.

Who's got the the paper airplane the furthest outstanding.

Yeah, I remember.

Didn't then draw 0-0 with Peru, I think.

It was against Peru.

I was there for the paper airplane.

And the fact that that's the thing that stays in my mind from the game also kind of proves your point.

Was it 0-0?

Was it 1-0?

It certainly wasn't a 6-0.

England 1-2-0, I think.

2-0.

I mean, it certainly wasn't a thriller.

I don't even know which tournament that was before.

So fundamentally, no, I don't care, but

I will pretend that they're important for the sake of writing preview pieces just before the tournament begins.

First two England games I went to were both friendlies.

I don't think they were pre-I'm not sure when they were.

Was England nil Norway nil, which is no surprise, and England nil Columbia nil.

I've spoken about.

Again, the Norway game, was that early 90s?

Yeah.

Yeah,

that was the first England game I went to.

Ah, I knew

there was some kid talking about Hungarian football behind me.

I didn't look around

in 1994.

I played in a five-aside tournament in London.

Right.

And we thought, oh, we'll go at the England Norway game the next day.

And then whoever was sort of booking the accommodation and everything, rather than doing what we assume we do, would be to stay in London overnight.

For some reason, we booked a travel lodge in Doncaster.

Great.

We drove from London to Doncaster to sleep and then drove back down again the next day.

Oh, no.

Absolute waste.

That's insane.

What about you, Jonathan?

Is Adam Wharton the next big thing?

Is Kobe Mainu, he's already not interesting enough because he's already played one match.

He is the next big thing.

I think he's quality.

I really, really like him.

Covey Main is also the next big thing.

So I don't know how many next big things there can be in one squad.

I'm not even sure if Walton will make the cut, to be honest.

I think it's kind of like a maybe

get some experience and enjoy the occasion of being in the camp and see you in a few years type Southgate movie, which he tends to do at times.

I remember he had Bellingham in the youth teams training with the

England main squad before long before he was involved

at a senior level.

So it could be one of those things.

Obviously, there's a lot of players to cut.

I feel like you can almost predict who's going to be cut mostly.

Maybe there's one or two areas, but I find the squad a bit strange.

I mean, apart from Luke Shaw, I can't see any recognised left back.

I don't know if, I don't know, Mark Gway can play there or someone like that, but

a bit of a gamble having a player who's not played for a significant amount of time as you're pretty much your only recognised left back, which is maybe a bit of a concern.

But apart from that, I think it's like Jonathan says, the Friendlies are just much of a muchness, muchness, aren't they?

They just get them out of the way and get the tournament going.

I don't think anyone's excited about it.

I mean, even Bellingham had to field a question about it yesterday, and he just kind of

looked at it.

I think it was Rio Fernando, whoever asked him, and just looked at him, kind of like, why are you even asking me about this?

Like, when I've just won a Champions League, like, it's the best night of my life.

And you're asking me about an England friendly in four days' time and stuff.

Or can I enjoy the occasion?

Because I've got England coming up.

I found it a bit out of place, even the question.

Any strong thoughts, Baz?

No, no interest whatsoever.

Presume Joe Gomez or Kieran Trippier can do a job at left back.

The thing with these friendlies is

it's a good exercise.

I don't know if even Garrett Southgate would probably prefer to just have training than have the rigmarole of going through, you know,

traveling to Newcastle for this game and traveling back.

It's a waste of a day and blah, blah, blah.

But, you know, everyone gets to read far too much into his team selection.

Everyone gets to worry about people picking up injuries.

Everyone

gets to speculate on who will miss out, you know, who'll get dropped.

But he has to get rid of how many?

Was it seven?

Seven, I think, yeah.

Seven players.

Who will miss the cut?

Because, you know, there's a few high-ish profile players who may miss out.

I would say Jack Grealish is probably sweating.

Dude Bellingham, given his form.

Yeah, yeah.

so, but yeah, on a personal level,

if we're not doing pods, I won't watch them.

Well, I have a week off, so you know, I'm not spending my leisure time watching England friendlies with the best will in the world.

Will you be watching Scotland, Gibraltar, and Scotland, Finland?

No, your week off, Barry.

I think our Republic of Ireland have a couple of friendlies.

I won't be watching them either.

If the Republic of Ireland can't appoint a bloody manager to talk, I'm not going to watch.

You might never watch Ireland again.

Yeah, well,

I could live with that.

Archie,

what's the optimism in Germany?

Like, they've got Ukraine tomorrow, Greece on Friday.

They appear like a year ago, it was like, well, they've got no chance.

And now people are going, oh,

they're at home.

They've got some good players, etc.

Well, only two of the Borussia Dortmund players that you saw last night have been called up to the Germany squad, which tells you that the finishing is going to be a little bit better for a start, or at least so they would hope.

Sorry, is it Schottelbach and who?

Or Hockelbach?

Schottelbach.

Schlotterbeck.

Schlotterbeck.

Who's the other one?

Fulkrug.

Nicholas Fulkrug.

Although I thought Julian Brandt may count himself to be a bit unfortunate given how he played for a lot of last night.

If you discard the corner delivery, they had about eight of them.

Max Hummel showed this week why he's not being selected with that interview that he gave.

Otherwise, particularly the form that Tony Cross is in and

how the vibes and the aura is moving around him,

the fact that there are quite a few Stuttgart players who performed well in

the domestic season, the likes of Maximilian Mittelstedt at left back, who was being relegated with Herter Berlin last time, this time last season, Valdemar Anton,

you have Chris Furisch on the wing as well, and Dennis Undav, who's been on loan from Brighton.

This, I think, has given people a bit more renewed optimism of having some fresher faces, and it's not just the same Bayer-Munich players who are being called up.

The fact that Leon Goretzka has been left out is big, but understandable.

And it's actually those kind of decisions that Julian Nagerman has taken, which I think Hansy Flick struggled to do, i.e.,

to drop his favourites and realize that he needs clear structures in terms of how the team is going to play and the identity of what roles those are going to be.

German club football is so different to German international football in terms of the people who follow it.

I think in England there's a there's a much easier crossover when it comes to people watching club football and international football.

That there's

it kind of follows on from it.

Whereas I know so many club fans in Germany who are just like the Euros are in Germany.

I still couldn't really care.

I still couldn't really care less about it.

And I think that they're more interested to watch

other nations come and play than they are Germany itself.

And that's the biggest challenge for Germany in this tournament is how do they get people back on side to watch them?

They did a big campaign when they announced the squad by getting famous performers to announce the fact that Florian Wiertz at a concert, it was announced, will be in the squad.

They delivered a cake with Jonathan Tarr, the Leverkusen player, on it to this grandma who opened it and was like, look, it's Jonathan Tarr and all sorts of things.

And

like, it was quite innovative, but yeah, I think that's the major.

That's the major

for Germany this summer is how do they get people back on side.

That'll do for part two.

We'll do any other business in part three.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day, Scratchers, from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly, must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim.

High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face, unless you power up with a SoFi personal loan.

A SoFi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low-fixed rate monthly payment.

It's even got super speed, since you can get the funds as soon as the same day you sign.

Visit sofi.com slash power to learn more.

That's SOFI.com/slash P-O-W-E-R.

Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA, member FEIC.

Terms and conditions apply.

NMLS 696891.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Jonathan, Eric Ten Hag is still the Manchester United manager.

Are you surprised?

I'm surprised to be asked about Eric Ten Hag on this end of season following.

United haven't played for a while, so yeah.

Is this just part of the media?

Is this part of, you know, like linear everyone?

You only ask this about Man united we wouldn't be asking it about anyone else i'm not surprised to be honest i

i'm surprised that the the sort of the way that the announcement that he was going to leave was was the surety of it makes me a little bit surprised in the sense that it seemed to be so clear-cut that it i'd have expected it to have happened by now but i'm not really surprised in the sense of him winning the fa cup and and and that that side of it like will have i'm not surprised basically is my answer i don't know whether it's because it's already been done and they're just waiting for the the mood of the fa cup to die down and just look give it a bit of time a bit of time and then and then uh stick the knife in or if it's because they genuinely haven't made that decision from the quote-unquote review end of season review that they're going to have um and and don't really know what to do so no i'm not not really surprised uh i think i've done a bit of a 180 on him and decided i think he deserves maybe part of the next season to get things just to see how the recruitment is i don't have a huge faith in the recruitment that it's going to change many things to be honest, because there's so many things to work on.

But at the same time, when you've won two trophies in two seasons, I think that does alter the narrative slightly for a sort of under-siege manager.

So I think he's earned a little bit of time, and I don't necessarily see any option that's maybe better, but I don't expect a huge improvement.

I quite enjoyed Jose Mourinho's dismissive kind of

look of grimace when he was asked if he thinks Man United will improve next season.

He just sort of said pretty much no,

which I found quite entertaining.

He also dismissed Chelsea as pretty much a basket case, which I found it was quite entertaining, I thought, Mourinho yesterday in a way, in his own way.

Speaking of Jose Mourinho, he has become the manager of Fenabache.

He'll be reunited with Fred and Edin Jeko.

Banucci's there, Bachuai, Saint Chu as well.

Does this make you want to watch the Turkish Super League, Barry?

No.

It makes me want to watch it even less than I already do watch it, which is never.

Anyway, so good luck to him.

Kieran McKenna's signed a new four-year deal with Ipswich, which is pretty interesting.

He's got himself a big old pay rise because everybody wanted him.

Ray says, Does Barry think Offaly's under-20s victory signals an imminent power shift in Leinster hurling at senior level?

One hopes so, yes.

Very good win by Offaly's under-20s against Tipperary yesterday.

Played lots of my friends from Borough were at the game.

And I believe had a long night in the pub afterwards, which could still be ongoing.

Marvellous.

Thanks to James, who amongst others writes, Hello, Guardian Football Weekly.

On Thursday, I was listening to an interview with Alan Fletcher, aka Dr.

Carl Kennedy, on the Irish radio station Today FM.

During the interview, he was asked who the most famous person in his phone was.

And with great joy, he announced it was, quote, the legendary football presenter, Max Rushton.

I would have thought it would have been Paul Robinson or Tody, but no, it's Max.

Congratulations on this magnificent achievement, Max.

Got me thinking who's the most famous person in Barry's phone.

We can, with permission from today FM, here is the clip.

Who is the most famous person in your phone?

Oh, this is a good question.

Yeah, 39 years now in the business.

You're going to give me some great name.

This is not going to mean a lot to you, but the most famous person in my phone is Max Rushton, the legendary football commentator.

Yes.

I love Max Rushton.

That's a great shout.

I mean, this is very exciting news, but I've got to say, it may be the greatest moment of my life.

He's called you a commentator, though.

That's fine.

Maybe he means someone else.

And he also thinks people in Ireland haven't heard of you.

This will mean nothing to me.

That's okay.

Yeah, I don't mind the qualifiers.

I don't mind that.

He knows Guy Pierce and Margot Robbie.

I mean, he may not have their number, I granted, but still, you know, this is a big moment for me.

Neighbours, what a great TV show.

Thank you to James O'Donoghue and Dave Moore, who was the host of

that show and apparently likes the pods.

So thanks, Dave.

To answer the question, I think the most famous person I have on my phone that I could ring without the risk of being subject to a court injunction or a knock on the door from the police is probably Daryl Breen.

Yeah, that's a good one.

There's a difference, though, isn't that, between someone you could ring and someone that you accidentally just don't want to accidentally FaceTime.

Which does remind me that I was once woken, I told you, once woken at 6 a.m.

on a Sunday morning because Goldie was FaceTiming me.

And I really don't think,

I really don't think Goldie wanted to FaceTime me Sunday at 6 in the morning.

Anyway, Mike says, hi, I was interested to hear on the pod a few weeks back about a listener encountering a grizzly bear while on an ATV in the wilds of Alaska.

This made me want to share a similar, albeit more everyday experience I had in upstate New York a couple of years ago, since I think there could be a lesson for the pod.

While out jogging, I was listening to the panel trying gamely to find something interesting to say about the charity shield between Leicester City and Manchester City.

Suddenly, a short way in front of me, a black bear burst out of the shrubs alongside the path.

It turned to face me with a look of intense curiosity on its face, despite us being only a few hundred yards from a coffee shop.

There was no one else around, just me and the bear, and Barry, who made an excellent point about Manchester City having a number of defenders out injured.

Now, I know you're not supposed to run away from bears, but I thought maybe I could break our standoff by edging away slowly in the direction of the coffee shop.

So while still facing the bear, I took one small step backwards.

The bear took a few steps forward.

Barry said that on the other hand, Leicester had a number of defenders out injured too.

At this point, the bear was within 15 feet, about the length of a normal car, and I was feeling that I'd better get my next move right, or I might never hear the panel's conclusions.

on what Leicester City's victory might mean for the rest of the season.

So vaguely remembering official advice, I waved my arms above my head and shouted.

The bear didn't exactly seem startled by this, but did move slowly back into the bushes, while giving me a look of disgust and disappointment that seemed to say, I thought you were better than that, leaving me feeling relieved but ashamed, and actually fully alone since my arm waving had wrenched out my headphones.

I've loved listening to the pod over the years, both the fun ones and the thought-provoking ones, but my experience and that of the Alaska listener suggest to me that others are also encountering potentially dangerous animals while listening, and thus there is still scope for improvement.

I'd propose that each pod, one panel member has chosen to give advice on how to cope with one specific dangerous animal we might encounter while listening.

Black members one week, stonefish the next, kind of thing.

I look forward to it and keep up the great work.

Thank you, Mike.

And we're delighted to say we are sort of, we're two from two in surviving encounters with bears.

Well, in fairness, nobody who hadn't would write in, would they?

That is true.

But I mean, I suppose with then you would hope that anyone that was found, they'd say, and they retrieved his AirPods and he was listening to Barry discussing how little he wants to watch England friendlies, Scotland friendlies, German friendlies, or the Turkish Super League.

With his five, the final thing he heard.

Anyway, yeah, do let us know if you've encountered a dangerous animal and survived.

I'm slightly concerned because I'm going to Canada.

Yes.

That's after the Euros.

And it seems I won't be able to leave the house or a hotel without getting attacked by a bear.

The bear will go.

That's that guy who was talking about Leicester's injury crisis four years ago.

Anyway, as discussed, we're off for a week.

The first of three Euro 2024 previews will be out on Monday the 10th.

There'll be daily pods from Friday, opening game of the Euros, Germany versus Scotland.

So hopefully you will join us whether out in the wilds, encountered by dangerous wildlife or just doing something a bit more menial.

In the meantime, that'll do for today.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Thank you.

Thank you, Wilson.

Thank you.

Thank you, Archie.

Thank you.

Thanks, Baz.

Thanks.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.