PSG and Dortmund thrill in two classic Champions League quarter-finals – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly site.

It'll be Brussia Dortmund versus PSG in the first Champions League semi-final.

Barca were two up on aggregate when Ronald Araujo decided to stop Barcola running through a straight red and that changed the game.

Dembele scoring against his former club, Cancelo giving away a Nida's penalty and Mbappe doing the rest.

What is this vaguely sensible PSG and when will it stop?

It's the first time in 25 games that a side who lost the first leg at home has progressed in the Champions League.

Dortmund were also behind and ahead, then behind again before the yellow wall sucked in Nicholas Fulkrug's brilliant header and Marcel Savitzer rifled one home.

A stunning achievement for a side who won't even fancy to get out of the group.

Also, today, Cole Palmer beats Everton 6-0, a perfect hat-trick and a fourth from the spot after he was allowed to take it by his teammates.

Congratulations are in order for Portsmouth, who are back in the championship, while Forrest Green are relegated from League Two.

We'll ask Archie the secret to talking to footballers.

There's an apology to Roy Hodgson, a bit of Coronation Street at Manchester United.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glen Denning.

Welcome.

Hi, yeah.

Hello, Jonathan Faduba.

Good morning.

And he doesn't dress up for us.

I mean, he does get dressed, to be clear.

It's Archie Rintart.

Welcome.

I offered the pink jacket.

It was declined.

Yeah.

Oh, fair enough.

You may dress

however you feel.

That will get to the fact that you are the most popular man in football right now, Archie.

I'm amazed you've lowered yourself to talk to us, but we appreciate it.

Appreciate it greatly.

Let's start with Barca PSG.

PSG winning 4-1, 6-4 on aggregate.

As I said in the intro, first time in 25 games that aside, who lost after the first leg at home, went away from home and won.

And we think that was Spurs beating Ajax in 2019.

PSG had lost seven ties

when they'd lost the first leg.

So, Barry, this is quite some achievement for them.

I think their greatest achievement is the fact that I find them quite a likable team.

And yeah, it was quite

an impressive achievement.

Otherwise, this was a wild, chaotic, white-knuckle ride of a game, full of brilliance, some terrible mistakes.

And I think the red card obviously changed the game.

I don't think it necessarily cost Barcelona the game.

They had chances before

PSG put it to bed.

Gundigan, Rafina, Lewandowski all had good chances when it was 3-1 and there was only a goal in it on aggregate.

And I think ultimately Barcelona sort of panicked following the lead of their manager who had a total meltdown on the sideline, which I thought was

he didn't comport himself very well last night.

I don't watch enough Spanish football to know if this is normal behavior for him, for Zavi, but he,

you know, if his team, a man down, are looking for guidance from the touchline, they weren't getting any because his head just went.

But it was a terrific game with some calamitous errors in it the the red for rahu cancelo giving away that need utterly needless penalty but i i really really enjoyed it and i find it weird that i

sort of

i wish this psg team

i well i'm not going to say i wish them well but i i find them reasonably likable unlike previous incarnations yeah lars said look um psg deciding to start building an actual team rather than just throw money at random famous people is a huge blow to the banter verse.

And Robin saying the same thing as you.

Can we get the old banter era PSG back?

These group of players are easy to like and it doesn't sit right with anybody.

I wonder, Jonathan, I'm not defending Araujo for that challenge,

but it must take a lot of...

In that moment...

You can see why a defender just wants to stop the attacker going through, but it's, you know, they're too up.

At that time in the tie, they are too up, Arcelona.

Just,

you know, like shepherds Barcolo towards the goal.

I mean, that is a better thing to do.

Yeah, I saw Rio Ferdinand's analysis of it, which, you know, I think as a defender, you know, there's been a lot of talk about pundits in the last week or so.

But I thought he actually made a fair point in that sense and gave it the perspective of a defender.

And maybe his job was to sort of run back to the penalty area, get into a position where he can kind of block the attacker and then

take it from there essentially instead of flying, go in a 1v1 race and kind of charge in just like a bull and thinking you're gonna make it and then not make it

So yeah, it was a little bit kind of unnecessary I think obviously from the Barcelona perspective a lot of the talk at the moment is about the referee Javi kind of called the referee a scandal I think the the media in Barcelona called it a disgrace and there's a lot of talk at the moment about the referees influence on that match and he did make one or two sort of strange and interesting decisions.

I mean personally I want to talk about Dembele.

I thought that it was it was Dembele's renaissance, if you could call it that, or it was the reminder that he's actually a good player over the years.

And I think if there's one player you don't want to wind up, it's definitely his man Dembele.

He seemed really keen in this game.

I had a feeling from the beginning that he was going to show up.

He was booed.

There was a lot of talk in the Paris media about

the reception that basically Dembele and Mbappe were going to face from the Barcelona fans, obviously with a controversial move to PSG from Dembele, from Barcelona.

And he really was not liked in the sort of last year or so of his time there and the round of departure.

So yeah, he put in a fantastic performance, a good goal again, and

obviously won the penalty from Cancello, which was another crazy decision, Maxie, in terms of how flying in really quite needlessly, really Cancello there when they were up against it.

But yeah, Dembele is not someone you you want to really upset over his career.

He doesn't score a huge amount of goals, but 2016 for Wren, he got a hat-trick in the Britain derby against Nantes, which is like a big, it's like the biggest game basically for Wren.

Wren.

He scored the winner in the German Cup semi-final when he was at Dortmund for

Dortmund against Bayern Munich.

I think it's 2017 in the German Cup semi-final.

And if you see the grin on his face at the end of the match, it was the sort of serious, kind of cheesy grin at the end of it to cap off a performance that I think he really personally would have enjoyed.

But like Barry said, I really enjoyed PSG's performance.

Barcola was quality as well.

And Bappé, you knew he was going to have an influence at some point.

And it was just a thoroughly enjoyable game, I thought.

And although the red card did change it, it didn't sort of, because of the lead that Barcelona had at that point, it still was a compelling match, if that makes sense.

So it didn't end the game.

They still had a lot to do.

Yeah, I wonder if, I don't know what you think, Archie.

I know you were mainly focused on the other game, but do you think taking Laminia Marlov was a mistake?

Like, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but he was causing so many problems.

And obviously, you have to tinker when you're going down to 10 men.

But I just wondered if that was a silly thing for Javi to do.

I'm not quite as silly as kicking a big cushion, which suggests if there is a big cushion, they've placed it there because they know he's going to kick things.

But more importantly, like, Yamal was playing so well, like,

find another solution.

When you look at the strength of Chavi's response post-game, talking about the referee, I often think that these are people who are suppressing the fact that they know it was their fault in some way, that they did things that they would like to take back.

And I think one of those things is probably Yamal substitution.

If you wanted a more honest appraisal of the mistakes that were made by Barcelona, it was worth looking towards Ilkai Gundawan's interview where he was saying, look, I need to see it again, but at the same time, making sure that Ronald Arajo

knew that he didn't need to make that challenge because as Gundawan said, well, if he doesn't do that, you know, we're not down to 10 men.

And

I think that,

yeah,

it's the sort of honesty that needs to be had at Barcelona with this situation.

As for PSG and Dembele, the fact he's only,

he's been taking a lot of heat in France because of only scoring one goal in Liga so far this season, only one more technically than Neymar has for the club this season.

And he's not there anymore.

So Kilian Mbappe has also faced a lot of heat about being a dictator.

A very good friend of mine is French and a PSG fan and has sent me this video that was made on Twitter of Killian Mbappe as Mao Sedong

because of how

Liquid published a long article after the first leg about Neymar and how his behavior at PSG was bad as if to take the spotlight away from Killian Mbappe.

Right, okay.

He's turned up and it shows you what Lars was saying last week and what he said there.

I really liked the line about them not being a guest list anymore, albeit it did make me think of, oh, if you were building teams as a guest list, who would it be?

But I think it shows you how you need to, you can't, you do need to have an obvious star probably in one row per team, one row of the formation at max.

But if you start to have more than that, then people are going to start getting in each other's way.

And yeah, Luis Enrique has found the balance.

I don't think we mentioned him last week, and he was brilliant.

And we haven't mentioned him yet today.

But I guess.

And he was brilliant again.

Vetinia?

Vetinia?

Yes.

Yeah, amazing.

Yeah.

He just covers so much ground.

He's so good.

He dictates to play in midfielder and seemingly just does it all under the radar because you don't hear many people talking about him.

But he was, I thought he was absolutely class over the two leg

I mean actually you could furnish us Jonathan with a bit more info about Vertini there will be some listeners who don't know his entire back story I don't know if you do I mean he was at Wolves for a season

a couple of seasons ago was he blimey he's Portuguese so you know chances are it's a very

right Luis Figo was there for a bit wasn't he yeah 50-50 chance in the current you know in the Wolves history but yeah obviously

he's been at Porto essentially had a season on loan at wolves um i think it was during the covert season roughly 2020 2021 so maybe i might be why not many people remember him he made 22 appearances uh went back to porto and then psg picked him up in 2022 and he sort of on his day he's a good player i think i think one thing with with psg

um and a lot of their players is they haven't been incredible in league are they still that have that propensity to kind of let let people down on the day at times but one thing i feel with luis enrique he's just sharpened that kind of focus in in the champions League.

There was an element of kind of control, and he seems to have sort of transmitted a style in Europe where there was a lot of belief.

He had a lot of influence in his press conferences and what he was saying.

And kind of the way he's sort of implemented this coaching style on the team, they just kept that calmness about them where when the red card happened, they didn't panic.

We've seen PSG so many times over the years in Champions League knockouts just start panicking no matter what the situation is.

They could be ahead.

There was a lot of talk about Larry Montada and kind of the comeback from 2017 and the whole bass of PSG history.

And when they were 4-2 down you in previous seasons you think to yourself that's it's it's done even with a red card almost.

But Luis Enrique has kind of implemented a style where there's a lot of belief there.

They're much better coached I think and they just had that maturity about them which is very rare for a PSG team really which as Barry alludes to and I think there's got to be a special shout out for Barcolo as well.

He's someone who essentially was Messi's replacement in a way.

Not necessarily directly, but he was brought in last season

at the beginning of the season from Lyon.

Known about a lot in French football circles.

He's a really good young talent.

And kind of a redirection of Paris, Saint-Germain's transfer policy to kind of start to sign more players from France and forget, you know, getting over the whole Messi Neymar sort of policy that they've had in the past.

And he's one of them that's come in and he had a really great influence on that, on that, um, on that game.

I thought I thought he had, you know, the cross for Dembele's goal.

And I thought he was really good.

And it was a shame Lamar went off because he was having a good game.

But

yeah, I just was very impressed with Louis Enrique, how he dealt with both legs, to be fair.

And although Javi had a bit of a meltdown towards the end,

I thought Luis Enrique kept us cool a little bit and honestly won the tie.

Given how much was being made of how this was a chance for PSG to do their own Raymontada, I was thinking, oh, I'm sure they've got a better way of saying that in French.

I've been told it's le comeback, so that'll be a no.

Oh, really good.

Yeah, it was the comeback.

It's with Barcelona, and Dan says, look, is the Barcelona era of tick-attacker now tainted by their complete ability to get it launched properly?

Just watching, and like, Javi's Barcelona are more direct, right, than we expect a Barcelona to be.

There's this brilliant moment, Baz, just before halftime, where, obviously, they're down to 10 men now.

one Barcelona player just lumps it upfield and then another Barcelona player just wins a massive header.

And I was just, I was like, I am here now for 45 minutes of shithousery a sort of mixture of stoke and Athletico Madrid seeing Barcelona kits do it was just like amazing but it didn't quite pan out that way no um yeah very very Dave Besson to John Fashionew wasn't it the knockdown to Terry Gibson who's obviously has has forged a very good career for himself as a as a pundit covering Spanish football but yeah I mean

that that Barcelona does not bear any resemblance whatsoever to the Barcelona that Xavi played in.

And,

you know, the things evolve, but

they're very entertaining to watch, as were the other Barcelona.

This Barcelona aren't quite as hypnotic.

That's true.

John Beck was a very cultured footballer and then became, you know, dirty long ball hero.

And so, you know, perhaps that's Xavi.

That's what he really wants to do.

You know, his next job, maybe his next job will be AFC Wimbledon.

Jonathan?

The thing is, I think you do touch on a good point there, Max, because in terms of the crowd was very hostile, we talked about that towards Dembele and Mbappe, but I kind of felt that they lacked a bit of hostility on the pitch.

They were still a bit sort of point in the game where I started thinking about Pepe and just like they lacked a kind of someone on the pitch to just be a bit nasty.

And Dembele is someone you can...

You can kind of wind up Dembele if you want.

although the crowd were winding him up as a professional he was dealt with that really well but there wasn't really anyone on the pitch to sort of wind him up and get in his face.

And I felt that that was one element they lacked a little bit of just maturity in key moments like the Arajo moment, the Cancelo moment.

If you look at the fourth goal as well,

Mbappe's second goal, there's a moment where

when it's all sort of ricocheting in the box, there was a moment for Furmin, who's a young talent from Barcelona, to just hoof it clear.

And he just sort of hesitated for a split second if you watch it back.

And that allows the chance to sort of fall to Mbappe.

And I think he would have gone through someone else if he'd have launched that away, but he just sort of split second hesitate.

Maybe didn't want to boot someone else

in the chest or whatever and

clear it as well.

So there was just that little element of maybe

shithowsery that they lacked.

Whereas they had it off the pitch because Javi was

booting the camera and booting everything else off the pitch.

And that's why he got the red card.

But just on the pitch, I felt they just lacked maybe that little bit of nastiness at times.

I just love the idea of someone walking into La Masia and going, right, change of plan, guys.

4-4-2.

This is what we're doing.

When the fullbacks get it, hit the channels from under sevens all the way up.

Sid Lowe tweeting, some Barcelona fans threw things at their own bus.

The massive club badge and Barca written on the side was a clue that it didn't spot.

My guess, you know, if you are going to attack.

And to be clear, this was before the game.

Before the game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they weren't angry.

They just didn't spot it.

I suppose that is a portent.

You know, if

if you're going to do that, then maybe it isn't going to be your day.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll do Dortmund's victory over athletic.

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Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Dortmund 4, Athletic 2, Dortmund winning 5-4 on aggregate.

Matt's saying, not a question, worth pointing out that the Dortmund Athletic game had six goals, and each goal changed which team was winning on aggregate.

The startup was Athleti.

After each goal, it was draw Dortmund, Draw, Athletic, Draw, Dortmund, full-time.

Rob Daly tweeting the potential semi-final line-ups

tonight with Times Central European Standard Time.

9 p.m., Bartha Athleti.

9.34, Barca versus Athletic or Dortmund.

9.39, Barca versus Dortmund.

10.08, Barca versus Athletic or Dortmund.

10.16, Barca or PSG versus Athletic or Brussels or Dortmund.

10.23, PSG, Athletic or Dortmund.

10.24, PSG or Athleti.

10.30, PSG versus Athletic or Dortmund.

And at 10.32, finally, PSG versus Dortmund.

You look bored, Barry.

I thought, listen, you've got to do it with conviction.

Halfway through, I was like, I shouldn't have bothered, but I'd started.

So

I've started, so I'll finish.

And look, we we go on and on about the yellow wall archer, but quite look good at the end there.

Understandably, that's their best European moment since they reached the Champions League final in 2013.

And also because these Dortmund fans have not known what to do with themselves this season when it comes to how Dortmund will play.

I am still very confused as to who and what they are, but

the best explanation of them was provided to me by a man called Tilo on Twitter who said that when Dortmund have something to lose, they tremble.

When all is almost lost, they start playing.

And there is still something of that about this team.

On a tactical level last night, they weren't prepared to, they were prepared to get it launched.

And when they did, Unlike in previous games, unlike, for example, in the first leg, where Nicholas Fulkrug was left up top alone for a lot of the time, they got the ball up to Fulkrug.

He was winning headers and he had players running off him.

And that's the secret to getting the best out of any target man, really.

And one of the players he had running off him who had an outstanding game was Marcel Sabitzer, played a key role in three of the four goals, setting up two of them and scoring the other.

He's really come into his own, particularly in the last few weeks.

He scored twice at the weekend against Borussia Munching Labbach.

And actually, every idea that he seems to have going forward seems to be a good one.

But for Dortmund to take the setback that they had at the start of the second half when they went from 2-0 up to 2-2 and to then turn it around still is so impressive and symbolic of what, despite the chances that they gave during this game, which were still quite decent,

still symbolic of what was overall their best performance of the season yeah you say sabote said everything he did worked apart from when he took a touch in the second minute and you were like what are you doing mate very good point put it away yeah but uh but that that start of that game was start that game jonathan was amazing when it you know sabote miss the chance then murata's through and you're thinking

this is i mean this is sort of done if murata puts this away and he put it wide and you're thinking it was just such a brilliant start to this football mate it was a game that i kind of felt it's a weird leg of

the sort of

web of the Champions League that side of it because I thought Inter would beat Atletico and I thought Atletico would beat Dortmund and it just seems to be going the complete opposite way.

I was really surprised that Inter went out and I think they are still one of the best teams in Europe to be honest.

But once Atletico made it through, you thought that Dortmund would be a fairly straightforward task for them.

But I don't really know what's going on with Atletico and Madrid at the moment.

I don't know if someone else can give me some insight on that because they seem to sort of not have that resilience and that solidity that they used to have.

And, you know, when they, once they got their noses in front, you thought, nah, Letico are the sort of team that they can just shut up shop and lock it off.

And I was really surprised, even though it is in, you know, a cauldron of noise and a hostile atmosphere, that Dortmund were able to see it through.

I mean, was there a sense that kind of the the crowd helped them push it forward, Archie?

Or I don't know.

Was there an extra bit of spice that they provided?

Or was it

what was your thought?

There is there is that sense at Dortmund on those kind of nights that

the crowd can give you that spice.

But what surprised me about Atletico is that the elements of the shithousery were there.

Whether it was Koke managing to get a hand ball off Ada Yami for something that he struck into his face, whether it was Jimenez at the start of the second half,

after Nicholas Fulkrug had won most aerial duels, managing to

fall on top of full krug's head um

and and even rodrigo raquelme um

like playing this this role of of what me what me gov after the one of the most obvious handballs that you'll see i was thinking okay that's the athletico i know but in terms of the

peak athletico in europe for me represented a team where they they enjoyed the graft and they seemed to get swallowed up by the occasion.

I think that they maybe thought it was done at 2-2.

And that was what surprised me, really.

Antoine Griezmann

was, I think, isolated in the quality of his performance because he was still doing the things that he does, but he didn't have, I think, enough support from the players around him.

So, yeah, Diego Simeone, even at full time,

was was very gracious with with edin tiazich because i think he knew well we just simply didn't do enough here yeah i think athletia have an amazing home record in the champions league and i and i can't remember what it is but it's something ludicrous like they've in the knockouts they just haven't lost or they've won every single game but they're away from this season is appalling um

And you said, you know, I think a lot of people thought when they got it back to 2-2 that that would be it.

But that goal to put Dortmund 3-2 up, Barry, I mean, that header is absolutely perfect isn't it yeah it it's not really a glancing header is it it's it's brilliant cross from sibitzer interesting about sibitzer playing centre midfield for brussy dortmund uh he scored a goal uh he he had more goals more assists

uh than he had made tackles in this game so he one goal one assist didn't have any didn't make a single tackle but it seemed to be popping up everywhere it was all over the shop.

It was brilliant.

But he blows so hot and cold.

You know, you're not going to get a performance like that or anywhere near that out of him

on a regular basis.

And that's the problem, I think, with Marcel Sibitzer.

But anyway, yeah, so he puts in this cross and Fulcrue leaps and just steers.

And there's a guy leaping with him, but he gets the jump on his marker and just steers the ball into the far corners.

Perfect header.

See, I don't want us to fall out, but I have written it is the definition of the perfect glancing header.

But you see, I think

there are too much power on it.

We're definitely not going to fall out though.

I think he has to do too much work, like twist his neck and s very deliberately steer it.

Whereas I think a glancing header, you're just kind of helping it on its way.

You don't have to.

But I am, you know,

I'm not saying I'm right, but that's just my opinion.

Archie, how are you classifying this?

I thought it was technically a glancing adder.

Right.

It's okay.

It's okay.

Jonathan.

I think it comes under the textbook definition of

leapt like a salmon.

Maybe not like a salmon, but he leapt.

Well, that's interesting.

Leaping like a salmon, I feel like, you know, you think Cristiano Ronaldo and you think sort of heading it back where it came from.

That's sort of like that sort of, you know, Michael Jordan hanging in the air because this was I think I think where I kind of agree with you Baz is that he's got a run on he's running onto it and I sense with a glancing header you're almost you're quite often not motionless but it's a bit more I see where you're coming from yes Jonathan if you think about a salmon leaping they're not they don't a salmon heading a football doesn't sort of connect with it and bang it does it no it glances if you if a salmon leapt and hit head of football it would glance and that was a glance and plus no no footballer has ever leapt like the salmon because if a salmon leaps it it sort of wobbles its lower half of its body.

It contorts its body, you know, from side to side.

But that's the sort of way he jumped.

That's the way he jumped.

He sort of jumped in a strange way.

He sort of jumps in a sort of like...

But the salmon isn't jumping from a standing start.

You know, he's...

True, true.

That's true.

And we don't know what's happening under the water.

And we thought Max's introduction to this section was boring.

There's something great about Fool Krug.

Here's this guy.

He looks quite 1980s League Two.

Not all of his teeth, you know, he's sort of a bit of a big lump.

And, you know, it's nice that there's one of those in the Champions League semi-final.

He'd been 14 hours without a goal until that header.

And to score a goal that was also,

it was very aesthetically pleasing because of the curvature.

of the ball and the way it just kind of nicked in off the post.

Whereas with the other goals, you could maybe say about Jan Oblak, could he have done better?

Do you think that Peak Oblak would have saved them?

That was the one where you were like, he has no chance because of just the way it clipped in off the post.

Fulkruk has had a difficult time this season.

Going back to what I was saying about having enough support around him, I think when he is isolated, you can see that he doesn't have the greatest first touch.

But if you play to his strengths, which I think are Dortmund's strengths, i.e.

not building up from the back

in a way that

they're trying to play through the opposition on the floor, as they were found out

by Athleti in the first leg, then I think they're a better side.

They're a better side when they go down the wings and they can get a few more balls into Fulkrug.

And Edin Terzich said that one of the areas they'd highlighted for Fulkrug before the game was that near post, and he made good on it.

And yeah,

it's he's going to be in the Germany squads this summer.

He'll be behind Kai Havertz, but he is a useful player to have.

Could we have a tip of the hat as well for Ian Mattson, who I thought was brilliant last night?

He's he's on loan at Borissia Dortmund because Maurizio Pochettino didn't consider him mature enough to play for Chelsea this season.

And I thought it was quite telling that he put in a performance like that 24 hours after we'd seen the antics of several several players who Potch did consider mature enough to play for Chester this season.

Just also a word on Matt Swimmels' pass

for Julian Brandt's first goal.

Oh, yeah.

Matt Summels has made a career out of these outside-of-the-boot passes, but even by his standards, that was gravy.

Yeah, it was excellent.

I think I credited it to Emre Chan.

So

my apologies, Mats.

I definitely credited the own goal to Matt Timmels.

You know, some old man sticking his leg out.

I've done that.

I just want to say one thing about Atletico, though.

Salmons aside, I do think that they do show signs of an aging team.

If you looked at the squad, there's only two plays, the team, sorry, the starting 11.

There's only two players under 29 in that team.

Axel Witzel, 35.

I agree with Archie as well.

You know, Oblak, there's been a lot of criticism in the past few years, and he's not probably the peak Oblak that people know as he was, you know, sort of five, six years ago, maybe.

Um, even Garisman's 33, and you know, even though he sort of he looks maybe like a whipper snapper, but he's, you know, the team feels aging to me.

And for an athletic team to concede five goals over two legs, it's that's not very Simeoni-like, is it?

It's very kind of...

I think this is the

beginning of the end of that team, really, that Athletica.

And I think they're going to need a real regeneration maybe in the summer to sort of go again.

And I think that's probably the feeling with Aletti fans.

Right, tonight then, Man City Real Madrid buying Arsenal.

What's going to happen, Barry?

I don't know, Max.

What do you expect?

Who do you expect to progress?

I don't expect anything.

I expect two good games,

but I haven't a clue what's going to happen.

I wouldn't have predicted either of those outcomes last night.

So, yeah, I don't know, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

Archie, are you on the same page as Barry?

No clue?

Some of the hints?

I mean, you feel City,

especially what they did last year against Real Madrid, when they just, in this first half of that second leg, Real Madrid, Max.

Well, I know it is.

I mean, I don't necessarily want City to blow them away, although I'm nervous.

I don't know what's happening with the coefficient.

I just, you know, it's getting too much.

What do you care about the coefficients?

Well,

I care if Tottenham finished fifth, Barry, about the coefficients.

Oh, of course, yeah, yeah.

I know that Dortmund qualifying last night was bad news for your English co-efficient.

Yes, yeah.

But good news for your German coefficient.

So, you know, someone's having a happy coefficient.

So it's a privilege to be able to go watch a lot of these games in the stadium.

But last

Tuesday it was, I got to go around to my mates and watch both of these games on parallel screens, plus Stevenage Barnsley on his laptop.

On iFollow, excellent.

Yeah.

It feels weird pulling for a Steve Evans team, but that's a different matter.

They were just so much fun to watch.

I'm so excited for both of these games because I think that

I don't think that it suits any of these teams really to sit back that much.

Maybe Bayern, probably the most of the four teams.

Yeah.

I've heard people say that Bayern won't be allowed to sit back because they're at home, and this has been a problem for Bayern when actually you saw against Arsenal.

It really suited them.

You know, they could play deep, and then Kane could spin and play in Sane and Nabri and whoever.

You know, like that is how they should play it, right?

Their issue is that Serge Nabri is out injured, and Kingsley Comar picked up an injury at the weekend against Cologne, meaning that he's out for the season now.

So

whether Thomas Tuchel trusts Thomas Muller to have the legs to do the running for enough of this game, or whether he'll give someone like Matisse Tell, who he has barely given a start to at all this season, but has impressed, particularly in the first half of the season, off the bench, that is the question there.

Bayern do seem on their last legs in terms of injury.

This is all they have to play for now.

So, yeah, I think that Arsenal will go through, but that therefore makes me think that Bayern will win because I never trust my first thought.

Kay says so many English national treasures across Europe at the moment.

Bellingham, Teller, Bino Gittens, Rin Tutz, wardrobe consultant.

Why can't every pitch side reporter be Archie?

Genuinely makes me smile watching his approach and interviews.

Football is fun.

I don't know if people have watched the highlights of Leverkusen's victory to secure the title more than they've watched you and Jeremy Frimpong having a nice time.

But how was it?

And

it is such an extraordinary achievement by Leverkusen.

It is extraordinary that they're unbeaten in all competitions as well.

But tell us about the day.

That's the thing I really can't get my head around.

Unbeaten in all competitions is such a good achievement, even now.

To be 43 games unbeaten is ridiculous.

And Sunday was wild seeing that many Leverkusen fans out and about,

even on the street before the game, when I have been to that stadium enough times where they have struggled to fill it.

And only this season has that really started to change on a regular basis.

Let alone the scenes at full time where the fans stayed on the pitch for a good two hours after it

to wait to see the team emerge from a box at the far end of the stadium and receive

the praise and applaud it that they rightfully deserve.

And the way that this Chabi Alonso team plays.

You spoke on

the previous pod about how Angie's Plan A maybe doesn't have enough in it.

Chabi Alonso's does.

It is, it's insane how

there are so many facets to it, whether it's the combination play, whether it is the long-distance abilities of Grimaldo, Jacques, Witz, the individual quality of Florian Witz, or indeed the set pieces

designed by Sebastian Paria.

I feel like after the conversation on the last pod as well, I have to name who the set piece coach is now because we need to give them prompts.

But yeah, it was

it's fun seeing people who don't usually win win because you see them enjoy it on a, on a different level to teams who win all the time.

And you just really felt that excitement and I smelt it as well in a lot of beer-soaked clothing.

Yeah.

And, you know, they've gone down very well, those interviews.

Like, like, you have a, you have a natural, you just have a natural ability to to to disarm footballers right

that i don't think that's for me to say

right all right no look look i rarely get i rarely get compliments too it's hard to it's it's hard to know how to take them right yeah yeah yeah this is why i believe that actually the best people to interview after the games are not the goal scorers because it's an unnatural thing to say well you were really good weren't you and then to unless things yeah yeah i'm disappointed i even asked you that question

i don't need to, you know, we're not here to give you praise.

Well, sorry, can I just on the subject of Archie?

I have seen in the past

clips of Archie interviewing players and managers going around and they're having a bit of crack and it's very entertaining.

And I have seen people criticise Archie for

inverted commas making himself the story.

That criticism strikes me as what sort of a joyless

arsehole do you have to be to watch one of those interviews and for that to be your,

you know, the opinion you emerge with?

And if you watch, for anyone who hasn't seen his interview with Jeremy Frimpong, it looks like, to all intents and purposes, Jeremy Fringpong is like a stand-up comic who's like,

and Archie's, the mic's stand, and he's kind of leaning against him with his elbow while he talks into the camera and talks to Archie.

It's a lovely, lovely moment.

Two men, very obviously happy.

And

yeah, it's just terrific.

And there is a natural warmth and charm and ability to disarm there.

And I've no problem seeing it on Archie's behalf.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It reminds me of just two blokes getting some air outside a nightclub.

Yeah.

Yeah, just

like, oh, it's a bit noisy in there.

Just lean on you.

I've had a couple too many.

Labour Kuzn aren't universally loved in Germany, right?

Because know, they're a big pharma, aren't they?

They're a big pharmaceutical company.

But

is the fact that anyone has stopped buying just meant that everyone's happy about it?

Yeah,

I think that plays a role.

That Airbn Leipzig exists now and have become a bigger foe for everybody else.

And then there's also Chavi Alonso,

who

oozes class with every statement and

gesture, I think.

Even if David Moyes may not agree with that,

after he labelled Chabi's bench and that a disgrace, after they were all running out

to demand a red card last week for Lucas Paqueta during the Europa League game.

But just I think that Chabi Alonso lends himself a lot to improving Levakusen's image because he is such a beloved ex-pro as well.

And

I think that unless you supported a rival team of Chabi Alonso, he's a difficult guy to hate.

So, yeah,

there are some people sniping.

Look, here in Cologne, for example,

people in Cologne pretend that

they don't recognise Leverkusen as a rival.

And yet,

on the front page of the main tabloid here, Express, the online version mentioned Leverkusen.

The one in the streets did not not because they know that things would have happened to those newspapers, I think.

So, so yeah.

Is it too early to say, look, is this squad going to get torn apart?

You know, or like, will Bayern bounce back?

Or is this the, you know, when's the right time to start asking those questions?

Difficult to know if Bayern are going to bounce back, given how much change has to occur with that squad in the summer, or at least the start of those changes.

You've got Max Abel and Christoph Reund being the architects of that sporting change at Bayern.

Plus, they need a new coach.

There are noises, but still unconfirmed noises about them now changing their mind and wanting to go back for Julian Nagelsmann, who is obviously the German national team coach right now.

As for Bayer Levakusen, their CEO Fernando Caro

has said that they will need to probably sell one big name in the summer.

It might well be Jerry Frimpong.

It won't be Florian Wierts, I think, such as the way that he's being managed.

Caro has also said that Wierts will be staying and playing at Labour Cousin next season, which I think is a good decision for him.

So as it stands, without knowing what at all that Bayern Unit squad is going to look like next season, I think you do make Labor Cousin the favourites.

Just one more thing I want to mention on Labour Cousin.

A colleague of mine saw before the penalty that put them ahead on Sunday, saw Michael Balak get his phone out and start recording.

Now Balak in 2000 scored an own goal as Levakus and lost the title on the final day, having been 14 games unbeaten into it.

And they only needed a point away at lowly unter Haqing.

But I just love this idea of,

I don't know, ex-pros who you think have achieved so much in the game.

Yeah.

And you wonder,

surely...

You're taking your phone out and recording this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It does kind of make them a little bit more human, actually.

Yeah, I quite liked it.

All right, that'll do for part two.

Uh, enough gushing praise for Archie.

Uh, we'll do Chelsea's victory over Everton in just a second.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Chelsea 6, Everton-0 on Monday night.

Chelsea a ninth, three three points off sixth place with a game on hand on everyone and two games in hand on West Ham.

Everton 16th on 27 points.

Forrest have 26.

Luton have 25 in the relegation zone.

I mean, this, Jonathan, was the Cole Palmer show.

A perfect hat-trick.

Like the first goal, that nutmeg, first-time finish, the third with his right foot.

He is some player, isn't he?

I don't really know what more to say about Cole Palmer, to be honest.

I think

along with Foden,

I think

my personal argument two players of the season

might be to be decided still.

But

in terms of a breakout player, although he was obviously quite well known, the impact he's had is incredible.

Goes obviously level on the golden boot.

A few of those have been penalties, but you still have to score penalties.

So I don't think that's kind of like a, you know, the whole non- and non-penalty XG and that kind of thing, you know, you still have to score penalties and he's done that.

So fair play to him.

He's had higher pressure penalties, which, of course, I guess we'll discuss in a minute, the whole debate around that particular penalty against Everton.

But, I mean, it was a perfect hat-trick.

Right-foot, left-foot header.

The first goal is just disgusting.

I can't get over it.

I could watch it a million times.

Firstly, he pretty much ends Brantwaite's chances of going to the Euros in one foul swoop.

Just nutmegs him.

See you later.

Red pen through the...

I could just vision Southgate's red pen at that exact moment you know going through the on his notebook um see you later good luck with your career then the sort of flick just to go round the round the other defender and the finish is the best part for me that the the audacity to just take it first time and bend it around england's number one goalkeeper is is just

just filth like every part of that goal is is is special really and i think he's a special player in that sense because When you nutmeg someone, it was the perfect balance between trickery and overdoing it.

You know, sort of if you nutmeg someone, you're putting out these tricks and flipping.

But it had the end product, right?

Yeah, but then just to hit it first time, like perfect, like almost like the master's sort of style, you know, the way he just sort of clipped it in

is just peak.

There's just technical excellence.

The second goal, almost in a way, is

a better sign of his just ability, it's like general ability in that sense of awareness and understanding of football.

The timing of the run to get on the head on the end of the header, the understanding of where the ball might might land.

That is kind of almost a striker's instinct.

And then loves Pickford, and then the penalty.

So it was a brilliant performance for him.

I've enjoyed watching him

more than probably anyone else this season, I think.

And he really is a superstar quality.

Jonathan mentions the Masters there.

And if you look at his third goal from a certain angle,

there is actually draw on it.

Pickford passes the ball.

He sends it straight back.

And I had to look up the difference between draw and fade.

so it is draw right to left as it drops into the goal the the debate i guess now for for england fans archie is where where does cole palmer fit right is he is he now

if bellingham isn't having a great game he goes in the 10.

does he do you do you play him you sort of presume Foden and Saka play wide.

Is he now above Madison in the pecking order?

Like, you know, he's firmly, surely on the plane, even just for penalties, right?

It's funny.

As soon as Jonathan started talking, like, um, I just

very quietly started typing in England squad space.

Um,

that was because I was thinking, where does he fit?

And I think he's above James Madison in terms of ability to pull a game into his own certainly on form, yeah, yeah, or

I think that that Cole Palmer has to be ahead of James Madison.

To be honest, the

I,

yeah, you wonder, going back to Gareth Southgate, if he's putting a red pen through Jared Branthwaite's name,

you'd think that given his hatred of

pulling up the handbrake and going off with that,

you think, oh, he's probably like, oh, no, he's giving me a problem here.

I don't want to take an extra attacking player.

This is a problem.

And to be honest, the real problem, I think, is I just don't trust Jordan Pickford.

And

there's just

having him, for as much as everyone talks about what England have going for them,

I think that still,

defensively, I just

struggle with being convinced by that.

And I think that, yeah,

there is a dearth of good goalkeepers.

in England right now, which is something I always have to hear in Germany, by the way.

They are convinced that we've never ever had a good goalkeeper.

And if I'm ever standing in goal and let one go under my foot, then immediately it's like, English autorhoita.

That's funny.

I almost presumed our goalkeepers were quite good.

You know, like Seaman was quite good, wasn't he?

He's the only English goalkeeper that the German

football team can generally name.

Right, okay.

I remember five years ago, I was like, World Cup, who's the English goalkeeper?

And they didn't know who Jordan Pickford was.

So,

yeah.

It's interesting that England, how painful painful England's defeat on penalties will be when you've got Ivan Toney, Cole Palmer, Harry Kane, you've got all these guys who are like amazingly good at penalties.

Nicholas says, who is the designated penalty taker of the pod?

You did touch on it, Barry.

But that tussle between Madaweke and Jackson is absolutely sensational, isn't it?

It's not just one person running.

It's not like the designated taker and someone else.

It's two people who aren't the designated taker.

I loved it.

Yeah, it's two people who aren't the designated taker trying to wrestle the the ball away from a third person who isn't the designated penalty taker and has no interest in taking the penalty.

He's just waiting for Cole Palmer to sort himself out after being polaxed in the box.

It was

tremendous fun.

Pretty juvenile behavior from both players

who...

Madowake and Jackson, who looked like a pair of, you know, spoiled toddlers fighting over a toy.

And

Barney made an interesting point.

It crossed my mind as well, but Barney, as usual, is far more eloquent.

He reckons Pochitino probably was pleased that that happened because it meant we all got to see, look, this is what I have to deal with.

That's a really good point.

I can't do this anymore.

It's like a teacher getting home going.

And look at what I have to deal with.

These idiots.

Last five A.

I just absolute shit.

So, anyway, you know,

and the thing is, there were what, four and a half up at the time.

It doesn't matter.

Jackson's already scored a lovely goal where I think three different defenders and Jordan Pickford gave him the freedom of the six-yard box to take the ball down at his leisure, turn and fire home.

So, yeah, I don't.

What did they think?

You know, if they score this penalty, is it just to massage their ego/slash figures, or did they think, oh, yeah, that was, I mean, a routine win for Chelsea, but

I thought Cole Palmer was all right.

But the way Maduwaki struck that penalty for the fifth, that was the highlight of the game for me.

Oh, maybe, maybe Todd Bowley has them on some ludicrous goal bonus.

Who knows?

Avli gilchrist looked so happy to score the fans did as well a really nice genuine one of our own moments as producer joel says that will make selling him as a homegrown player

sustainability all the sweeter well maybe they can do like they did with the hotel and just sell them sell them to themselves for a massive yeah to chelsea exactly chelsea have sold alfie gilchrist to chelsea for a hundred million pounds uh dan says regarding the chelsea everton game i assume remember barry often talking about lampard getting a free ride as everton manager if Frank got a free ride,

what is Daish getting?

A complimentary ticket for one of those hop on, hop off European city bus tours.

I mean, they were bleak, Jonathan, in this game, weren't they?

Yeah,

pretty drab.

And

Tarkovsky's interview afterwards was quite interesting.

I think he said it was the most embarrassed he's felt on a football pitch, which

was interesting.

I do kind of agree with it.

I think it's...

Barry, did you say it was Barney?

I do agree with that, actually, because Pochitino made special mention of that at the end, sort of say in his post-match saying, essentially, this will never happen again.

And it was a bit of a power move from Pochatino at the end of it to kind of call it out and say, this is the issues I'm having at this club.

You know, I think he specifically said that these are the issues and this is why he wants experience.

For Everton, I just kind of feel a bit sorry for Everton at the moment, to be honest.

I've been lucky enough to

see the new stadium and what's going on there and the efforts they're making behind the scenes.

And there's a lot of good people at the club that do great work in the community as well, Everton.

We've obviously been in liverpool i've been lucky enough to sort of um be around the city and and we've had a few trips to everton and and and and seen a lot of behind the scenes there the new stadium looks incredible by the way and they really are on a precipice of i think they're in genuine danger of really

bad things happening if they if they were to go down um the you know the whole seven seven seven partners thing that the takeovers just just a little bit of a a gap there in terms of what exactly is going on and i do think there is a bigger sense of doom than people realize around everton at the moment in terms of if they were to get relegated in terms of performance wise yeah they were just shambolic and and cole palmer destroyed them but and and by the way brantfort's had a really good season so i don't want to come across as if i was ridiculing him he's been he's been one of england's bet he's been in one of england's better young players this season to be fair to him no it's too late now we're later that bit out you've you've killed it's just a i think with them they're a little bit the the problem i feel with everton is that sean dyesh is very good at coaching the team defensively, but they just really lack going forward.

When Calvert Lewin's not there, Betto's okay, but they just, I've seen a couple of their games this season where they really struggle to create anything, and that could end up being their downfall because there's a big few games ahead to come, and they need to get some points.

Yeah, I mean, they didn't look amazingly coached defensively.

Not in that game.

In this game, but I take your point.

Yes, Archie.

I think the nature of the points deductions that they've had has just slowly eaten away at them.

Whereas in the old days, it felt like you got your points deduction and then you could work against that for the season.

I think it's difficult as a player when you think you've overcome that hurdle and then it comes and kind of bites you again.

But I think that Sean Deish is the thing that he's done well is actually moderating

the noise around that.

And that's probably taken up...

That's been as much a part of the job as being the actual coach of this club.

So

I take that into account as well.

And it is a very difficult situation to continue trying to

motivate players in this sort of atmosphere.

And this toxicity that has been there at Everton is deeply ingrained and

is not something that I think can be got out quickly.

Or at least Sean Deysh has convinced me of that.

And that's part of it.

You need somebody who is a good communicator as a manager.

or that is a bigger part of your job.

And some coaches don't get that right.

So I think it's reflective of that as well.

Everton Ledge, Neville Southall, occasionally hands his Twitter account over to

charities or organizations to use his platform to get their message across.

And I think in the past...

48 hours he handed it over to some LGBT organization and at the end of it, when it was handed back to him, he said, I've learned a lot about the LGBT community.

Everton fans, will it bother you if we had the first player to come out?

It wouldn't bother me.

And a reply from Mike, it would be good if one of them came out as a footballer at the moment.

It's a good line, isn't it?

They're appealed, by the way.

The Premier League say they're really going to try and expedite this, you know, get it done before the end of of the season.

So, hopefully, we know what the final league table is by the end.

We've got an EFL pod next Tuesday, by the way.

So,

Portsmouth fans will be hoping for more than just well-done Portsmouth.

You'll get more on Tuesday.

On Wednesday,

correction, yes?

I have

a brilliant John Massino staff for that podcast.

Next Wednesday, that's when it is.

So,

will it keep till next Wednesday?

I think it will.

I don't want anyone to beat me till it went.

No, I didn't keep.

Okay, fine.

I would say don't hold hold your breath because that's quite a long time.

Commiserations to Forrest Green, relegated from League 2.

David got in touch after I suggested Crystal Palace had never had 21 consecutive passes under Roy Hodgson when they scored that goal at Anfield.

And

David said, look, Roy Hodgson Palace team did that against Liverpool and Andros.

Townsend senior junior senior scored a brilliant goal.

So I stand corrected.

Bally says in the last pod at 29 minutes and 42 seconds, when Barney Ronnie said, I feel sorry for Camboala, both me and a friend of mine who were listening independently both heard it as, I feel sorry for Ken Barlow.

So at this moment, would Ken Barlow improve Manchester United's defence?

It's a very, very good question.

And Matthew says, finally, I'm going on my stag do to Munich this week.

Does Barry have any advice?

Don't take antibiotics if you have a throat infection.

Or if you do.

No, actually, that's quite childish.

Take antibiotics if you have a a throat infection, but don't drink on your stag do.

There we are.

If that is the case.

Right.

Have a lovely time, Matthew.

We wish you all the best.

I mean, it'd be good if they dressed him as you with sort of torrents of shit coming out of you.

That was his outfit.

Did you see the stag do?

It was doing the rounds of switchers.

Was it in Leeds?

Not sure.

A load of

the groom was dressed as a cat, and all his mates were Kurtzuma.

And they pitched up outside some cat healthcare

shop.

And there was a giant cat outside, a model cat, and they just started kicking lumps out of the cat.

It was highly entertaining.

It's good.

It's very niche, isn't it?

It's very niche.

A lot of people would have absolutely no idea.

Almost, my favorite snagdoo was someone I know, like they all had to dress as goths, right?

Like proper, you know, DM boots up to the knees, like all in black makeup, everything.

And then they went out in Camden, and obviously no one batted an eye on it.

I'm just

sitting there like all self-conscious, and nobody even noticed.

Anyway, that'll do for today's pod.

Thank you, Archie.

Yes, the ticket prices at Fulham are a disgrace.

Thank you, Max.

No, well said.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Thank you, Max.

Cheers, Baz.

Thank you.

Fulbright Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

Man City Real Madrid by Munich Arsenal.

We'll cover them tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.