Could Kobbie Mainoo solve England’s midfield puzzle? – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to Guardian Football Weekly.

The international break begins.

England have two interesting looking games, Brazil and Belgium and some interesting dilemmas for Gareth Southgate to muse and the rest of us to froth over.

Cobby Maynu makes the squad.

Has he got time to become the holding midfielder we desperately need?

Should Gareth just use this season's stats to pick the team?

And who else on the fringes is this week big for?

We'll discuss Ben White, the right fragrances for an England hotel, and a woke football kit that seems to have upset some very reasonable people.

The playoffs for the final places begin tonight.

We'll focus on Wales and try to work out who else will make it through.

And then Josh Whitticom joins us to discuss his new podcast with Darrow Brian about Ali Dyer.

There's Barry's political look-alikes, people dreaming about the pod, a nostalgic quiz, your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Johnny Lou, how are you?

Oh, I'm great.

I'm really good.

How are you?

Yeah, good, thank you.

What were you laughing at?

Yeah, I sound like a teacher.

What are you smirking at in the intro?

Oh, well, I was...

The Barry lookalike, the political look-alikes bit.

Because I just, it clicked

who you were referring to.

Oh, there are more than one.

We've been sent many.

Ben Fisher is here.

Hi, Max.

How are you doing?

And Fraser says, Did Barry have a nice time in the winner's enclosure at Cheltenham with Sir Alex Ferguson, Big Sam, and Tyrone from Coronation Street?

How was your week, Barry?

My week at Cheltenham was everything I expected it to be, Max.

I did actually see Big Sam and Sir Alex in the winner's enclosure.

I was standing Sir Alex adjacent as he welcomed home his first winner at the festival after I don't know how many years and then 40 minutes later he welcomed home his second so money follows money Max

it's true in Fergie time the second horse clearly won his race didn't he anyway let's start with England they placed Brazil on Saturday night at seven o'clock Belgium on Tuesday oh sorry sorry actually Max no don't apologize I I I watched the Gold Cup with Harry Redknapp in Harry Redknapp's company yes all right and uh a couple of races before the Cup,

his horse, he'd had a winner the same day as Fergie.

And then the next day, his horse, the jukebox man,

which I think was a 20, 25 to 1 outsider, which I had money on,

looked all over a winner, jumping the last, nothing near it, and it got collared on the line.

So Harry and I watched the Gold Cup together, and both of us were in a very bad mood because the jukebox was.

Just the two of you next to each other?

The two of us and Gary Cotterill from Sky Sports.

Oh, right.

Okay.

Wow.

So I was in exalted company.

You were.

Was Gary reporting on deadline day or was he allowed the afternoon?

No, I think he'd been sent along to interview Harry after his winner the previous day.

That's what they were doing anyway, because they went scuttled off to a room

to do an interview.

Did you win?

Did you win any money?

No, I didn't really bet much, to be honest.

I think about three bets.

one winner.

That one was second and one nowhere.

Should we get on with England?

Cobby Manuel.

Yeah, we probably should.

Cobby Manu getting into the squad.

This is good, isn't it, Johnny?

I mean, Southgate gets criticised for not doing this kind of thing.

I think it's good because he's a fantastic talent, albeit a largely unproven talent.

You know, we don't know how

he's going to deal with lots of different situations.

And this is a

perfect fixture to test him in.

Elite opposition,

you know, Wempe Stadium, you know, kind of the run-up to a tournament.

So everyone's kind of slightly on edge and

they're hoping to kind of

get things to gel.

And

yeah, I mean, and clearly there is a problem in that midfield.

You know, we know who two of those fielders are in that three, Rice and Bellingham.

But

I think...

Southgate is basically looking for a way not to have to pick Jordan Henderson or Calvin Phillips.

You know, we joke about his loyalty to them, but you know, anyone who knows ball, as they say, will know that Henderson's not the player he was, that Phillips is certainly not the player

he looked like he was capable of being.

And so

there is a bit of a void in there.

You know, you need someone who can take the ball under pressure, but also someone who can kind of build attacks from nothing against static defenses.

And Mainu, who has been, you know, I've really enjoyed watching him for United this season.

It's not just what he does on the ball, not just, just you know kind of the the goals and and the little flourishes around the area but the way he he tracks back the way he gets into position the way he he really strives to win it back and um and his discipline off the ball i i think he's a i think he's a real player and i'm really i hope he gets like some decent minutes i hope it's not like sort of 20 minutes when all the the air's gone out of the game i want to i want to see him get a decent chunk yes i was going to say you you can just see you know him coming on for henderson in the 88th minute of both games and then be like oh

i I was looking at, I think Ben McClear in The Guardian did a piece about if the England team was picked purely on stats, right, then the midfield would be Madison, Rice, and Bellingham.

But in everybody's mind, that is too attacking, right?

Rice is better when Jorginho is next to him, for example, for Arsenal.

Could you possibly play Madison, Rice, and Bellingham?

It sounds so exciting, but it's probably a bad idea.

And so you do need somebody who is a six, or at least more of a six than any of those three.

I mean, it's okay against weaker opposition, unless you, you know, as long as you have strategies for for stopping the counter right

you bring your your fullbacks into a slightly more central position and and um you know when when you have the ball so you don't get countered it's it's not it's you know people think that you know having three attacking midfielders or you know

having two attacking midfielders out of three is kind of you know it's a death sentence but if if you can you can plan around that if if that's clearly where your strengths lie then then you can work the rest of the team uh

you know you can you can fiddle with a few things, and it doesn't necessarily kill you if you are smart about it.

The question is, I guess, is if you look at England's centre of defence or defence, Ben, where there are potential issues at left back, potential issues at centre-back,

that makes you think like you do need a sensible midfield, right?

Yeah, because I mean, centre-half is definitely the area that scares me the most with my sort of England head-on.

And therefore, yeah, you need some kind of form of protection in front of there.

I think Rice can obviously play deeper, but as we've seen for Arsenal and for England, you know, he offers so much kind of attacking, penetrating, going the other way.

Obviously, Bellingham is very much playing at the tip of that midfield as well.

And I think Maynu will obviously provide an energy, a much-needed energy, really, that obviously Henderson, even an informed Phillips probably isn't quite matching.

And it's really said, you know, it's a problem position for England.

It was probably that and centre-half are probably the two main concerns going into the tournament if mainu can play anywhere near like he has done and show the kind of same composure as he has done for manchester united then could be a really big

um but a really sort of welcome uh headache kind of solve really for southgate because uh yeah i think that that central that spine i must admit i even pickford's form for for Everton and England still, I think that spine is still, I don't know, probably the weaker form of the England team.

They just have so many good players.

Ireland would kill for half of them.

And we'd squeeze any of them into our team, even if we had to play James Madison in gold.

It's the classic thing, you know, if

lots of them are going to have to be left out, and people will get upset about that.

But

what the midfield three will be, in your opinion,

assuming everyone's fit?

Well, I mean, that's the point, isn't it?

That Bellingham and Rice will be two two of them.

I mean,

I suspect at the moment Henderson would be the other one.

But I don't know, Johnny, if you if you think the difference, and you know, if he is, I just almost won't be able to handle the uproar before the game's even started.

You know, like, I mean, I don't think he's playing at the level.

I mean, he didn't play,

you know, Villa Hamadiak.

That's the only time I've seen him this season.

So perhaps it's wrong to judge, but he doesn't appear to be at the level.

But I suspect that's what Southgate will do.

Johnny, who else do you think this

week is huge for?

Because

it's the fringe players who ultimately probably won't play that many minutes in the tournament, like Anthony Gordon, Ivan Toney, etc.

Um, who could this be big for?

I don't know, who's in the squad?

Uh, I haven't really, I've not really been following it.

Um, oh, I mean, obviously, Rashford.

I mean,

obviously, it's a huge week for Marcus Rashford, and again, it depends to a large extent on the amount of minutes he can get, but I think

he would probably consider himself slightly lucky to get into this squad

given the season that he's had.

And clearly there's still

a little bit of trust there, a little bit of belief on Southgate's part.

And Rashford kind of has to,

you know, he has to fulfil that because there is so much competition for that spot.

I think if you asked a lot of England fans, they would say Foden, Phil Foden's probably a better bet on that left flank.

So yeah, I mean,

it's a huge week for him, you know, because if he can still do it, if he can still offer something at international level, it doesn't necessarily matter that he's not really ripping up for Manchester United.

Southgate has shown that in the past.

Is it conceivable,

obviously, Jack Grealich is not fit at the moment,

but he's not having a good season.

Marcus Rashford is not having a good season.

Is it conceivable one or both of them could be left out and maybe Anthony Gordon sneaks into the squad?

I think I'd probably, out of the two, weirdly, I probably would be more concerned for Grealish than Rashford.

I think Rashford for England has performed, especially for Southgate.

I don't know, he's had big moments.

I think Grealish,

he's just had a really difficult season, obviously, for Manchester City.

You know, Cole Palmer, who obviously left City for Chelsea, looks like he's in a really good place.

Foden, obviously, is on that left,

basically, instead of him.

I'd be a little bit concerned for Grealish, and especially we know before there was obviously the huge clamour for Southgate to include Grealish ditto with Madison, and obviously he did.

But I don't know, I don't feel like we've seen anywhere near the best of Grealish for quite some time.

And I think out of the two, Rashford, Southgate may come down on Rashford's side

just in terms of what he has delivered for him.

The Ben White story is interesting.

Harry Ridknap, your new friend, Barry, was on Talksport saying they should slam the door in his face.

The first comment below the video saying, How can you slam the door in the face of someone who has just slammed the door in your face?

The door is now closed.

In the Telegraph, it was reported that what happened in Cattel was a falling out with Steve Holland.

It started at the base at the World Cup in November of last year in a conversation between

Holland and Ben White in front of other members of the squad.

It was described by sources as having begun when Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City's performance in the previous season.

When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said he didn't know the answer.

And it's claimed that Holland responded by saying that that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.

It was that moment that ultimately led to the player asking to come home on November the 30th.

I mean, we don't know how much of that is accurate, Johnny.

But it doesn't matter if Ben White is interested enough in football, if he's playing really well.

It seems odd that Steve Holland would yell at him in front of the players.

Obviously, there's a lot of supposition here.

but if he doesn't want to play, then he doesn't want to play, right?

It's one of those where,

I think this incident is, you know,

there's been a lot of talk, you know, a lot of rumours, you know, everyone kind of heard things about what happened in Qatar with Steve Holland.

I think it's one of those episodes that's been given, because everyone now fixates on this, it's been given a lot more explanatory power than it probably deserves.

The fact is, you know, playing,

well, going to on-England camps and not playing is not very fun.

The money isn't great compared to, you know, what you're earning for your club.

The scrutiny is off the scale.

And at some point, clearly, Ben White has thought, well,

I don't want to do this anymore.

I think it's perfectly reasonable.

And it's interesting, you know, that,

you know, obviously I live in Germany and Tony Cross has just has just come back.

And Tony Cross, obviously,

he decided to step back after the Euro, after the last Euros.

And

nobody begrudged him that nobody called him a traitor and said like you know this this guy should be we should slam the door in tony cross's face you know this where is this guy's patriotism and and obviously that you know douglas barda didn't you know you know he would be furious etc yeah yeah and that you know the door was always left open and narglesman gave him a call and now he's back for for the hope euros um i just i think it's it's it's this really outdated view that international football should should be the be-all and end-all and that you need to want to bleed for your country.

And I think for the next generation, certainly it's not that way.

It's like, what are you doing for me as well?

And why shouldn't it be?

Garrett Sautgate insists that White's absence from the squad is not because of a row he had with Steve Holland.

But what little evidence we have suggests his absence from the squad is to do with a row he had with Steve Holland.

And if it is,

it seems like a bit of a dumb route to have had.

And I would sort of say it's not great leadership by Steve Holland because we know Ben White isn't that interested in football he just happens to be very good at it and he gives his all when he's playing

there's no question about that but if he's not particularly interested in all the football stuff that's going around he's not a proper football man

then allowances should be made for that because

as I say he's very good at it uh speaking of people who who would run through brick walls to play for england if they were good enough um uh this from the express uh barry which you uh pointed in my direction uh outraged mps are leading the backlash against nike in england today after the new 2024 kit uh was accused of being woke um

It's a skit.

Anyway, Nike said the new kits will celebrate football heroes of the past with a modern twist.

The St.

George's Cross on the collar has been given, quote, a playful update to unite and inspire.

The traditional red cross has now been replaced with a multicoloured cross.

While the vertical line remains red, the horizontal line has instead been redesigned with navy blue, light blue, and pink.

Reform UK MP Lee Anderson said, the left have a nerve to ask me why I want my country back.

This virtue-signaling, Nambi-Pambi, pearl-clutching, woke nonsense must stop.

Any more of this, and I'll be on the first flight to Rwanda.

May I suggest more of this very quickly, please?

Tori MP, Brennan Clarksmith, said the design looked nothing like our flag.

The plain-speaking patriot fumed, maybe somebody in the design department misheard three lines and instead went for the three lines on a shirt.

Baz, thoughts?

I don't have any tired Lee Anderson buggers off to Rwanda.

I think that the United Kingdom would be a much better place without him.

Didn't he get outraged about something at the World Cup and then said he wasn't going to watch an England game.

So, I've said the Euros taking the knee.

He said he wouldn't watch, he wouldn't watch them.

And then they went and reached the final, and he still wasn't allowed to watch them.

Oh, that's right.

I mean, he's a terrible man.

Terrible, terrible man.

Also, the whole thing that there weren't any flights to Rwanda, and that's that's why he bugged off.

Uh, and now he's

there, are no flights to Rwanda.

Yes, that's exactly it, isn't it?

That's

he'll be on the first one.

Uh, meanwhile, Ben, you drew my attention in nonsense that is happening around England.

Uh, England will take the scent of St.

George's Park with them as they seek European Championship glory in Germany this summer from the mail.

Mail Sport understands that three special fragrances which permeate the air at the team's Burton-on-Trent HQ will be transported to the remote five-star hotel where Gareth Southgate and his players will be based for the duration of their campaign.

They'd be just pumped into one plane and then siphoned out of that plane into the hotel.

I've spent time in St George's Park and I don't remember any discernible scent.

I thought it might be the stench of underachievement and failure, but...

The words permeate the air, like fragrances that what else do fragrances do

other than permeate the air?

True.

I have a real problem with

look busy.

Yeah,

I have a trouble with truffle oil.

If there was any truffle in it, it sort of makes me gag.

So that would really affect my performance.

Anyway, the signature scent is likely to feature throughout the main areas of the golf resort Vimara land.

It has been described as a fresh, comforting aroma that is distinguishable and lets you know you're in a high-end space.

Oh, okay.

That's not this podcast, but other ones would like that one.

It features hints of bergamot, lily, and jasmine.

A second scent will be used in gym and recreation areas, viewed as a more energizing aroma.

In the player's bedroom, a more relaxing, sleep-promoting scent thought to contain hints of lavender is to be dispensed.

Ben?

Yeah, I did a piece with Brentford's head of performance, Ben Ryan, the former Rugby Sevens coach, who I don't know the best way to describe him, but he's, yeah, eye on the small details, it's fair to say, at Brentford, obviously a kind of bastion, kind of forward-thinking club.

And I got talking to him, and he was quietly

sort of saying how they have aromas around the training ground.

They've kind of introduced these smells around the place.

And I think he was obviously reluctant for it to be the thrust of the piece for obvious reasons.

And he was kind of saying, you know, it's not just us or me just going out to Tesco and buying a load of glades.

But I did quite like the idea that Brentford's, I mean, apparently all these different rooms and the corridors, they all have these different sort of infusions and smells.

And he was saying, you know, to elicit higher cognitive thinking.

And they want to like make it smell nice.

I'm assuming this is what England are thinking as well, by the way, that they want to make it smell nice so that then they just want to stick around this environment, which I imagine for England is probably way out in the middle of nowhere.

And obviously, they've had problems with that before.

But yeah, Ben at Brentford was saying they've had they had conversations with Vegas hotels and

how to replicate that at Brentford.

So everyone's at it.

I'm getting the word Brailsford

and not in a good way.

Well, I was just thinking, Lord, help our proud boys if the hotel in any way smells of Germany.

We didn't win two world wars to play a Euro somewhere that might have that scent.

Goodness.

Anyway,

I suspect there'll be more of those kind of stories.

God, it's only, it's not even the end of March.

It's got months of these things until the Euros.

Anyway, it'll keep us going.

We're as guilty as anyone.

We've been talking about it.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with Wales and their playoff to get to the Euros.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable paper pro.

We already know that remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category.

Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office, like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although, not like you.

A proper football journalist, mate.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

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And the battery performance is amazing.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So we've got these qualifiers tonight at the semi-finals.

Georgia play Luxembourg and Greece play Kazakhstan.

In path C and path B, Israel, Iceland, Bosnia and Herzegovina against Ukraine.

And in path A, Poland, Estonia and Wales, Finland.

So, Ben, how do you rate Wales's chances?

Well, they're at home, which I think is a massive thing for them.

You know, kind of that'll get that'll give them plenty of encouragement.

Even if they beat Finland tonight, Thursday, they will then be at home against Poland or Estonia again that's a that's a big thing big factor I think I think there's there's you know Wales unusually are the favourites here I think they quite like as we know being the underdogs so often are the underdogs I think everybody's expecting them probably to beat Finland and then maybe have a more difficult time against Poland but you know it's unlikely to be as easy as that they've obviously been here before in the playoffs they got past Ukraine to reach the World Cup but that was history makes it look like it was a great kind of Gareth Bale goal that, you know, typically sent Wales to the World Cup.

But, you know, that was a really nervy game.

They could have easily lost that game.

It was a massively deflected free kick.

So

I think it's going to be a really tight, cagey game.

You'd like to think that that home Wales factor,

12th man and all of that

might just help them.

But I think it's going to be really tight.

Finland.

I think they're expecting them to set up to frustrate, hit on the counter.

Obviously, Timu Puki can still finish.

And I suppose my main concern, if anything, is because Rob Page has been saying the last couple of weeks how these players are in a really good place.

They're playing more minutes, more regular game time, making more of an impact at their clubs than ever.

But all four goalkeepers in the squad are just not playing any minutes.

Danny Ward is going to start for Wales in goal and hasn't played a club game for about 12 months.

He's been playing for the under 23s at Leicester.

Page said yesterday, you know, it's not the same.

It's not going to be like anything he's faced.

So I think that probably is the main concern among Welsh fans because, yeah, you can't just suddenly switch on, I don't think, in terms of the intensity and kind of what he's going to face.

But yeah, and to that end, Finland's captain is the Bayer Leverkus and goalkeeper, Lucas Herodecki, who we know is having a great time.

So talk about contrasts.

But yeah, I don't want to sort of dampen it too much.

It's a massive game.

You'd like to think Wales can get over the line in Cardiff.

Should be a great atmosphere, but I don't think it's going to be easy at all.

It is.

It's kind of the post-bale era, isn't it?

Aaron Ramsey is in the squad.

There was a bit of contentiousness about his call-up because he hasn't played much this season.

I think he's only played about 90 minutes in total since September.

And he may not, he probably won't start.

But the thing is, they don't need him as much as they used to.

But yeah, what Ben was saying about the goalkeepers, the four Wales goalkeepers have one appearance between them this season.

That was Adam Davis for Sheffield United against Lincoln City in August in the Carabao Cup.

But crucially, he kept a clean sheet.

So he is the form goalkeeper.

Right.

Hopefully, they've done some training between now and then the four of them.

I suppose going forward, Ben, they have Dan James, who's in great form.

Someone I like to call Player A is, you know, making an impact at Tottenham at the moment.

So, you know, they have, you know, they do have

weapons.

Yeah.

Rob Page yesterday was saying, you know, they need to bring the A game.

Now, all we could think of was player A.

Yeah, no, Wales, they have weapons, as you say.

Dan James, he's going to reach 50 caps if he'll play.

Ethan Ampidou at 23 will reach 50 caps, which would be that he'll be the fastest to do that, the fastest Welshman to reach that milestone.

So incredible achievement.

And really, as you say, Barry, this is a new era now.

It is post-Bail, but it almost feels already post-Ramsey.

Ramsey's 33, but has played 23 minutes since September.

He's very much on the periphery,

probably a bit of a vibes man for this camp, really, and has been for a little while.

I mean, he flew out to Armenia with the team in November, but you know, was injured.

You can't doubt, you know, he obviously loves Wales and you know, wants to be available, but I'd be amazed if he played any more than a handful of minutes, really, tonight.

Um, and yeah, it's this kind of new era, really.

Ampadu, 23,

50 capped, has you know, been around it since you know, he trained uh before Euro 2016 at the age of 15.

So he's been around it a long time.

And Jordan James, 19-year-old at Birmingham, has made really impressive strides for club and country.

So, you know, a 19-year-old in a 23-year-old in midfield, it does feel fresh, it does feel a bit exciting, but obviously, they want to have something to show for it.

The Finland are actually kind of they're at the opposite end of that cycle, really.

But there's there's this sense that it's almost like the kind of a kind of last chance for for this team you know like demo burke and and radeki and um erasmus schula as well like that they're coming to the end of the cycle and there's not necessarily uh a huge amount coming in to you know to replace them so um that there is there is this sense that after they kind of they failed to to qualify automatically uh even though they kind of had an identical record to the qualification group in in 2020 which they actually qualified for after this you know that a lot of a lot of um a lot of people expect the um the coach marcus uh Marko Ganova to step down and there's going to be a big transition period.

And the other thing is, it's quite interesting to see how this game is going to go down tactically because these are both teams that are, I think, more comfortable playing without the ball.

I mean, like, Finland's last game was at San Marino, was in San Marino, and

they got given the ball, and they had no idea, really, what to do with it.

And I think they won 2-1 in the end.

I actually checked the Wales squad to see if Chris Gunther was still in it.

And he isn't, but he has been given a job as vibes man in Rob Page's backroom staff.

So

it is nice to see that kind of continuity.

Yeah, he's on the coaching staff, yeah.

Oh, please, John.

Nice chap.

Luxembourg are just two games away from their first ever major tournament.

Paul Watson is going to be with us next week to discuss that and the more minor nations involved in this break.

He was in San Marino for their game with St.

Kitts and Nevis last night.

There There was big hopes it would be San Marino's first win for 20 something years.

They were 1-0 up, but eventually they lost 3-1.

Israel, as I mentioned, play Iceland tonight ahead of this game.

The Palestinian FA has written to FIFA and demanded that Congress consider appropriate sanctions against the Israeli Football Association and its clubs because of, quote, unprecedented international human rights and humanitarian law violations in the war on Gaza.

The PFA motion has the support of six member associations.

In the letter, the Palestinian Palestinian FA wrote that it brings forth a proposal to address the unprecedented international human rights and humanitarian law violations committed by Israel and the complicity manifest in the Israel Football Association's continued inclusion in its National League of Football Teams located on the territory of another association.

They invoke Articles 2, 3, 4, and 5 of the FIFA statutes, citing the governing body's human rights commitment as well as FIFA's human rights policy.

The letter argues that the Israeli Football Association is complicit in Israel's government's violation against Palestinian football.

Israel's Football Association on Wednesday responded to the petition by saying it had, quote, always followed FIFA regulations and always will.

The Republic of Ireland, Barry, have friendlies against Belgium and Switzerland.

Black Ben Rover striker Sammy Smodix hoping to make his debut.

The England Ireland 21 boss Lee Carsley has turned down the role of Republic of Ireland manager.

Neil Lennon has turned down the job.

Chris Coleman has ruled himself out of the job.

Does anybody want it?

it?

Need Lennon turn it down, or did they turn him down?

I'm not sure about that.

Oh, a good question.

I'm not so sure he was offered the job.

I'm not sure about Chris Coleman either, but I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.

The Football Association of Ireland at the moment is it has long been a joke.

They got rid of John Delaney,

who was the main joker-in-chief, and I think people hoped things would improve, and they haven't.

And the guy who's replaced John Delaney seems to be as big, if not bigger, a clown as he was.

Yes, John O'Shea has been installed as

interim manager or whatever for these two games.

They've had months and months to find a replacement for Stephen Kenny.

Haven't done it.

I can see why Lee Carsley turned down the job.

It's not a very attractive proposition.

The infrastructure in Ireland is a mess.

And I'd be honest, I'll be paying very little attention to these friendlies.

I had to check just before we came on who Ireland were even playing because I couldn't remember.

That's how disinterested I am.

If the FAI aren't interested in them, which they clearly aren't, I'm not sure why they would expect anyone else to be either.

No, doesn't sound ideal.

Northern Ireland play Romania and Scotland.

Scotland also have a friendly against the Netherlands.

So we'll look back at all of those games on Monday.

And that'll do for part two.

In part three, Josh Whitticom joins us.

He's done a podcast with Daro Brayen about

Ali Dyer and his 53 minutes playing for Southampton.

And we'll do that next.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's introduce Guardian Sport uploader and sub slash low-level writer 2007 to 2010, Josh Whitticom.

Hey, Josh.

I didn't realize you were going to quote my text verbatim

when you asked me what I used to do there.

So yes.

Did he in his text tell you that I taught him everything he knows?

That's implicit.

That's implicit in the way I live.

Of course it is.

Many's the unhappy hour we filed away in a dingy office in Ray Street before Josh went hit the big time and forgot all about me.

Oh, I'll never forget about you, Bass.

I'll never forget about you.

I listen to you most weeks, depending on the results of the football.

Right, no, that's fair.

Right, you've got a new football podcast out, and the world needs a new football podcast.

I just think there's not enough podcasts.

Yeah, I think you're right.

No, you need to be heard, Josh.

We don't see or hear enough about

you or from you and your sidekick, Darryl Breen.

I mean, every time I turn on my television, one of you, at least one of you, is on it.

And I was thinking, no, I need more.

I need more of this.

Well, the great, great thing is, obviously, finally, me and Dara have been reunited after they tried to kill it by killing Mock the Week.

So here we are back discussing what we love, obviously, which is

topical football stories, i.e.

Ali Jar in 1996.

Well, that's it.

Ali Jar.

And I've been calling him Ali Dyer.

And I thought it was Ali Dar until I listened to

episode one, just before this pod, of your new podcast called 53 Minutes, which was the amount of time that Ali Jar was on the pitch.

I mean, it's a fascinating story.

My first thought, Josh, is if you really aren't a footballer, 53 minutes is a really long time to get away with it, I think.

I think he was.

It isn't that he wasn't a footballer.

He was a footballer to a level, which I didn't really know.

I think we all know the headlines of the story, which was obviously George Wayer phones Graham Sunas says, my cousin's quite good at football.

Do you want to give him a trial?

And Graham Sunas plays him.

But there was kind of more to it.

He, I didn't realize he had a

he played for Gateshead, he played in Norway, he played for around the semi-professional leagues.

And then he just,

so it's not like if you or I was to play for Southampton in 1996,

he was of a level.

Graeme Sunes did say he was very pacey.

It's not Lee Mack in soccer aid, is it?

No, it's not Lee Mack in soccer aid.

And I'd I'd say the Southampton team aren't as they don't talk as much about it as people who do soccer aid talk about it yeah that's fair I mean it is a really

you obviously love the 90s and 90s football and quickly Kevin obviously was a great podcast and so it just feels like obviously it couldn't happen now no and like that's what's so brilliant about it is that it happened then because There wasn't football on TV every minute.

We didn't have like, you know, stats analysts telling us how many times Rodri has looked around every time he's played the game.

You know, there's huge holes in our knowledge.

Plymouth Argyle have got a transfer committee.

That's the age we're living in now.

Do you know what I mean?

In those days, it wasn't like that, obviously.

There's lots of checks and balances, obviously, now that would happen.

I didn't realize until we did this podcast that no one noticed at the time in my head, a bit like that kind of Mandela effect thing.

I thought this was a big news story that we'd all, it was on match the day that Southampton had been conned and this thing had happened.

No one even really clocked it had happened that he had until the following week, a local journalist in Southampton was like, what, who was this bloke?

And kind of asked Graham Sunes.

And that hadn't, no one else, it hadn't been really mentioned post-match.

It hadn't really, it would have just drifted on by if that local journalist hadn't clocked it.

Whereas now, obviously, it would be Twitter.

It would be, you know, look at the, it's the Kate Middleton situation, isn't it, Really, now you can't do anything.

So, so, so, did, did, who was ringing Graham Sunas?

Like,

no one knows.

You've got to presume it was him, right?

You've got to presume it was Arlie.

There's a chance it was George Weare.

That's, I suppose, an option.

So, the story is that George Weaver rings Graham Sunas.

That's what Graham Sunas thinks.

The facts of the matter are: a man phones Graham Sunes, says, I'm George Weare, the current World Footballer of the Year.

My cousin is looking for a club.

Will you give him a trial?

Graham Sunes gives him a trial, which I think, I'd say at that point, reasonable enough behaviour.

I don't think, you know, that's a mistake to do.

He's no good really in training, but they're going through an injury crisis.

He's one of the named substitutes because they've got no one else.

And then Matt Letitier, their best player, gets injured.

And so they have to bring him on.

Because he's the only attacker on the bench.

They're chasing the game.

He's so bad, they take him off for Ken Monkow, who's a centre-back, uh, when they're chasing the game, so he doesn't have a good game.

And then he basically that's him.

No one's heard from him since.

He's gone.

Is he not selling CBD oil on Twitter?

Well, do you know what?

He's incredibly difficult to track down.

So we've had kind of email contact via a fixer with Ali, right?

Uh, but he won't, and he kind of tanned the fixer George Weyer

If only.

The fixer.

And so we've got, we've had email contact, but he kind of, he tantalizingly doesn't want to talk about it.

But I don't know why,

if this had happened to me, it would be, I'd be trading on it forever.

You'd never hear the end of it, Barry.

You wouldn't be able to escape me.

If it had happened to any of us, but I don't think it, if it had happened, he maybe doesn't want his life defined by it.

Maybe he's got a very normal job now.

Maybe I don't know.

Did you read there was a there was a Genesis, you know, other people have tried to find it.

That was our fixer, yeah.

And there was an amazing story,

yeah.

And, you know, the story is a joke to us, but like there is a human in the middle of it.

And actually, the story that he wrote was quite a moving one about what happened to Ali Jar and

his family and just the impact of it.

Yeah, and obviously it is a laugh for us because it bloody well should be because a man condemns out of the football pitch in 1996 in the Premier League.

But yeah, obviously he's affected by it.

Graham Sunas hasn't spoken.

Graham Sunes didn't mention it as an autobiography, never really spoke about it.

I think Graeme Sunes feels,

well, we end up, we have interviewed Graham Sunas, he's spoken for the first time about it.

And he's quite magnanimous about it, I think, now.

I think you've got to be, really.

But obviously,

for years, I don't think Graham Sunas saw the funny side of it either.

When you're talking to Graham Sunas about this, like, could you have jokey small talk before you start the interview?

So, Graham Sunas, very much, when you ask to interview Graham Sunas about Ali Jar, he very much calls the shots.

Right, okay.

Not just in the interview, but in he wasn't going to do it, he wasn't going to do it.

And then he just told the producer, I'm in London at 2 p.m.

Tomorrow.

I'm willing to talk about Ali Jar if you'll have me.

Dara was in New Zealand, and I was out of London as well.

So basically, our producer had to sit in a room with Graham Sunes and be the first person to talk to him about Ali Jar.

And there's a lot of on the recording, there's a lot of small talk about Graham Sunes being brilliant and winning lots of European cups before he moves on to discussing Ali Jar.

Tell us, tell us again about Liverpool winning the European Cup, Graham, and then we'll move on to discuss Ali.

Can I, Ben?

You, you're a young un.

how

much is this story on your radar because i'm guessing it happened before you were born yeah i would have been one or two i think at the time so

yeah but i'm definitely aware of it but i don't i don't know the the nuts and bolts of it so i definitely will have to be uh listening but i just like the idea of ali now just kind of being like a car salesman somewhere just living this different life but uh yeah no i don't know don't know loads about it but it's weird how soon as he's never never spoken on it before, no?

Well, do you think if it had been Harry Redknapp or if it had been

Ron Atkinson or Barry Fry, they'd have been trading on it in after-dinner speaking forever.

But Graham Sunes is made differently, and I suppose it must just feel exposing for him, or it must feel kind of-I don't know, you must be too proud about the whole situation.

You would think, because you know, when there's a ponder on TV, they'll flag up a graphic,

Jamie Rednapp won three FA Cup to Liverpool.

Anytime Graham Sunas is now a ponder, it should be Graeme Sunas once signed

a bloke who couldn't play football for Southampton.

We got Matt Letitier to talk about as well.

Obviously, just to be very clear, we just stayed on the topic of football.

We didn't stray into any other areas.

I don't know whether this was where Matt Letitier lost his trust in the world, if this moment was when he,

but they

all kind of,

I don't think they all realised quite

it didn't feel so weird in the Southampton dressing room as you would imagine.

Do you know what I mean?

You would imagine that this was the talk, who the fuck's this guy?

And they were just like, oh, it's another quite bad trialist, I think.

That was kind of how they felt.

I just, I think it felt incredibly mundane in 1996 for a bloke you didn't know to show up and not be very good on a training ground

you should probably also add the caveat that

at Southampton at that time there were quite a lot of people who weren't very good at football I think Matt Letitier being better than other people wasn't it was like his normal day for him I mean obviously so much of this is is This story is a great way of sort of looking back at football in the 90s, right?

And obviously we all love football the most when we were 10.

Yeah.

Right.

And do you, yeah, like,

how do you, do you follow it now in a totally different way?

Yeah, I'm a bit disillusioned with it.

In the set,

not in a sense of, you know, I just don't follow it as

it doesn't feel as fun, does it?

But I know I sound like I'm 400 years old when I say that, so it's difficult to say it.

I do follow it in a different way because obviously you care a lot more about it when you're a kid.

But it, you know, it's, is,

was the pop music better in the 90s or is the pop music just yes

it was okay

bad example bad example but um it is that feeling of is it me or was it more fun it feels like there was a lot more human element it feels like there was a lot more kind of everything could go wrong it feels like the teams that won the league lost a lot more games every season you know um that feels a lot more fun but really you know

i think i'm probably just an old person aren't i at the end of the the day, and we all prefer the things of our youth.

Yeah, and everything is just an existential midlife crisis.

Exactly.

It's probably not Pep Guardiola's fault that I feel disillusioned with life.

Now, we found

something you did in The Guardian in 2009, Josh.

Oh, Jesus.

Jesus wept.

Producer Joel found a football weekly quiz that you wrote in 2009.

Well, four of you, it took four of you to write 10 questions.

Well, just to be clear, The Guardian used to have a lot more money, so we were able to have four people doing a quiz before the bottom fell out of the media market.

There was four people doing a quiz.

Who are the other three?

Yeah, Jacob Steinberg.

Shall I try and guess them?

Greg Bukowski?

No,

was he previously Greg Ruffley?

Yeah, he was Greg Ruffley.

Yes, he was Greg.

Yeah, Greg was there.

Yeah, so Jacob, Greg, you, Alan Gardner.

No,

sounds like you're talking about Southampton trialists in the 90s, Matt.

Alan Gardner.

Excellent left midfielder.

Somebody called Tom Lutz.

Oh, Tom Lutz.

Oh, I love Tom Lutz.

Yeah, moved to Australia or America.

America he moved to, didn't he?

Lutz is sort of our man in charge of the US Sports Bureau, I think.

Yeah.

Ah, okay.

He's still your colleague, Max, so to say, a man called

Lutz is a bit of a.

Yeah, they all are except you.

You're the owner.

If you'd really focused on that?

Sub-editing?

Yeah.

Oh, I love Greg.

I love Greg Pukowski.

He ran from London to Liverpool while I was there.

Sorry, I disappeared in more nostalgia.

Well, that's all right.

Anyway, do we play the Football Weekly quiz?

I guess

it's a multiple choice.

So I don't know if we should ask

you, Josh, or if everyone should just shout if they know the answer.

I mean, Barry.

Barry, shout out if you know the answer.

You have quite an advantage.

Was it theme?

The theme is Football Weekly.

Like, it's a quiz on the Guardian website about Football Weekly.

So So it's all perfect for here.

Yeah.

Question one, everybody.

When was the first Football Weekly broadcast?

Your choices are.

2006, June.

Glenn Denning, won the Luck.

World Cup 2006.

I remember listening to that episode.

I listened to that when I was working at...

It was recorded in what can only be described as a wardrobe.

I think there was a beer tasting or there was a German beer tasting or something between Barry and James Richardson.

I thought, this is the podcast.

It was like the first podcast I'd ever listened to, I think.

Who does?

Question two, who does James Richardson support?

Roma.

Crouch.

2-0 to Barry.

The white person.

Yeah, you're doing really well here, Barry.

We found your specialist subject.

Sean Ingle.

Question three.

Sean Ingle coined which famous catchphrase?

Crouch is getting his nachos.

This is incredible.

Really good.

Come on, Josh.

You wrote this.

You wrote at least one question of this, Josh.

Peter Crouch was subsequently asked in an interview by James Richardson about the story of when he famously was ordering nachos in some fast food takeaway and was telling everyone present that Crouch is getting his nachos.

And he, while he didn't dispute that, it may have happened, he denied any knowledge of it.

Excellent.

Question four, I think we're on.

Which of these people hasn't guest-hosted Football Weekly?

Ken Early.

He has.

Rob Curling.

He has paul doyle colin murray

colin murray

colin murray is colin murray is the correct answer yeah barry this is incredible stuff really good here question five podcast i mean

the life and times of barry glen denning basically is i've really enjoyed this quiz

first time barry's enjoyed my work exactly isn't it it's um so funny it's so rare in a pub quiz you go and round five, everyone, is the Guardian Football Weekly.

Imagine when it happens, Baz.

Question six, I think we're on.

What is Sid Lowe's real name?

Sid Lowe.

Rob?

Simon Lowe.

Correct.

One point for Johnny Lowe.

Ah, really good.

His first name is Simon.

It's on his accreditation.

I shared a room with him in Qatar, and it's on his accreditation as Simon Lowe.

To which institution did Man of the People, Barry Glendenning, once belong?

The Army, Boarding School, River Dance, or Prison?

Boarding school.

Yeah, okay.

Which area of Germany does Raf Honingstein hail from?

Bavaria.

Correct.

What was Barry Glendenning seen doing in an Austrian pub during Euro 2008, which wouldn't be done in the UK?

Correct.

Well done, Josh.

You're on the board.

More my knowledge of law than my knowledge of witches.

I'm glad that's all it was.

The relief on Barry's face is unbelievable.

Which of these pod members has not written a book?

Jonathan Wilson, I'll give over.

Raph Honingstein, Scott Murray, or John Ashdown?

John Ashdown.

Correct.

Finally, fill in the blank in this James Richardson quote.

The biggest title challenge since Insert Player Here tried to write his autobiography.

Danny Shitto.

Correct.

Danny Shittu, did you write that question?

I remember that.

I don't know where that's come from in my mind.

Really good, really good.

But it is there, isn't it?

On

Barry's look-alikes,

Simon says, for the new bi-weekly feature, People Who Look Like Barry, we started watching Traitors recently.

Rayanne from Series 1 shares a more than passing resemblance to Barry.

Also, my cousin's girlfriend, Michael, looks like Barry, but none of her family know who he is, so it's lost on them.

Matt says, Is Barry going to hand back all those NHS contracts he got from the government?

Yeah, that

that is slightly alarming how the likeness between myself and that blood.

I wish he had his money, if not his morals.

He put a white t-shirt, and if you put a white t-shirt and a red cap on him, I reckon he's a dead ring of a Hank Hill.

Have you ever had that?

Yes, have you ever had Hank Hill, Barry?

No.

Okay.

Jacyk, I think that's how I pronounce it.

Says the Swedish Minister of Justice does look a bit like Barry, and he does, but you'll have to look it up.

So look, more of those, please.

And finally, Meyer says, hello, Football Weekly panel.

I finally had a Football Weekly themed dream.

In the dream, Max was my stepdad, and I was staying at his house for the week.

I woke up from a nap on the couch to find Max and Kate Middleton deep in conversation at a table.

Apparently, Max was a journalist working on a big tell-all interview with Kate.

I left the room to give them some privacy and went into the kitchen where Barry was preparing them tea.

Unclear whether he was a butler or some sort of household staff or just hanging out.

Unfortunately, I woke up before the story could progress, so we'll never know what his role was or what Kate revealed in her tell-all.

I should add that Max is a bit too young to be my stepdad, but I would begrudgingly accept him should something happen to my parents' marriage.

Love the pod.

Keep up the good work.

Best wishes, Maya.

Thank you, Maya.

Appreciate your email and apologies.

So that's where Kate's your subconscious.

Yeah, exactly.

Hanging out with us, drinking tea.

Exactly.

If you have any dreams about us,

that's a very self-indulgent question.

Footballweekly at theguardian.com.

And anything else you'd like to get in touch with us about?

53 Minutes.

The podcast is out now.

New episodes each week available on Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts.

So thank you, Josh.

Thanks for coming on.

It's been an absolute pleasure.

It's an absolute joy.

Excellent.

Thanks, everybody else.

Thanks, Ben.

Cheers, Max.

Thanks, Johnny.

Thanks.

Cheers, Baz.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Max Sarners.

This is The Guardian.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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