FA Cup magic is alive at Old Trafford and Molineux – Football Weekly

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Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Has the FA Cup lost its? Oh no, it hasn't.

Speaker 1 A brilliant set of quarterfinals and the plucky underdogs, Coventry City and Manchester United, make it through to face each other in the semis. That old Trafford United never gave up.

Speaker 1 Liverpool thought they'd won it twice, but Anthony kicked it with his right foot for the first time to take it to extra time. Then Amad Diallo won it in injury time in extra time.

Speaker 1 And so the man who saved Sir Alex could end it for 10 hard. Mark Robbins yelling at ballboys as Coventry scored twice in injury time to win at Wolves.

Speaker 1 Chelsea beat Leicester despite scoring one of the all-time great own goals. They'll play Man City who won predictably comfortably against Newcastle.

Speaker 1 In the Premier League race for the top four, Spurs winning at life but losing at Fulham, while Aston Villa need a late equaliser and a lot of VAR to get a point at West Ham.

Speaker 1 At the bottom, Luton finally scored one late as opposed to letting one in. And is there hope for Burnley? No, not really, but they do win a game.

Speaker 1 There's a great Champions League draw and an England squad to digest your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly

Speaker 1 on the panel today. Jordan Jarrett Brian, welcome.
Hello, Matt. You well? I am good.
Hello, Paul McInnis.

Speaker 4 Good morning, Max.

Speaker 1 And hello, Robin Cowan.

Speaker 5 Hi, Max.

Speaker 1 Let's start at Old Trafford then. Manchester United 4, Liverpool 3.
After extra time. Just a brilliant game, Robin.
You know, the lead changing hands three times.

Speaker 1 Liverpool thinking they've won it, Anthony, then that Rashford miss. And then that break and injury time.
Oh, and how slowly the winner went in. I mean, it was just so good, wasn't it?

Speaker 5 Oh, superb. And actually, when I thought Manchester United were really good in the first half, but then they go in at the break, 2-1 down.
And you think from there, that's probably them done.

Speaker 5 But fair play to them. They were pretty brave against the Liverpool team, who I think, yeah, maybe are a little bit tired.
I think, you know,

Speaker 5 I guess it's a bit like Villa and West Ham, we'll get on to later. But they all had that Thursday night trip.
I mean, obviously, Liverpool's was an absolute stroll in the Europa League.

Speaker 5 No, absolutely fantastic. And yeah, I mean, listening to the pod on Thursday, you asked John Bruin whether he gave Manchester United any chance.
And I think he's now eating his word. He is, isn't he?

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 1 very good. He is.
We didn't really have time for much, so he just said no.

Speaker 1 And quite a moment, Paul, for Amadiallo. I mean, getting the red card that quite a few, I think a lot in the crowd didn't even know he'd been sent off because they were just too busy celebrating.

Speaker 1 The BBC Radio Manchester commentator Gaz Drinkwater completely exploded. It was absolutely brilliant.
But for a guy who's not really done much, is that his first goal for United? I think it is.

Speaker 1 I mean, what?

Speaker 1 Arguably no better way to score your first goal for Manchester United.

Speaker 4 No, I think he's a player who is,

Speaker 4 I don't think I'm wrong here, has a sort of mystique around him for United fans because he has never really been given a chance in the first team, signed

Speaker 4 as a prodigy from Houdinay, I think, and

Speaker 4 has been kind of in and around the squad, but only really made an impression on loan last year at Sunderland. So

Speaker 4 I think fans are interested to see him. He was clearly kind of keen to make his mark on the game as well.
And I think, you know, to be able to find that,

Speaker 4 I think some people said Callagher could maybe have done better with the save, but it was so precise.

Speaker 4 I think you've really got to get a lot of credit to Ahmad. And yeah, a great finish, great way to win the game.
And, you know, I don't think it's unlikely he will be

Speaker 4 expected to feature in the next couple of games. So he can probably take on the bat as well.

Speaker 1 Robin alluded to it, Jordan. You know, it's massive for Ten Hag.
And he did go for it. You know, he had what Maguire and Dallow as the only recognised defenders on the pitch at the end.

Speaker 1 Anthony's left back, Bruno sort of playing at the back.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and I'm a bit conflicted in how I analyze Ten Haag

Speaker 6 during this match because I'm the first one to put the knife in when he gets his tactics and his substitutions wrong when they lose. So you've got to be fair and say that.

Speaker 6 you know, when they win, you've got to give him credit. But I'm not convinced this game was about tactics and subs.

Speaker 6 I think this, and I think the beauty of this game was that it wasn't really about tactics. It was about just who wanted it more.

Speaker 6 And I think United constantly coming back when they seemed like they were, they were dead, I just, I thought was something that a lot of my United fan friends

Speaker 6 said for the first time in a long time, we saw our players actually, you know, wanting it, desire, heart, all those cliche words.

Speaker 6 But it came down to we will not let Liverpool win this quadruple on our watch, on our stadium. It's not happening.

Speaker 6 We can be shite the whole season, but this is the one game where we're we're not going to sit down and die.

Speaker 6 And again, I've been very critical of Man United players, but some of the players, you know, Anthony, I don't think was brilliant, but he got a big goal.

Speaker 6 Rashford missed a shocker, but he then redeemed himself to a degree with another goal. Great touch, by the way.
So as someone that I'm a fair man, Max, I've been putting the boot on United all season.

Speaker 6 But to be fair to them,

Speaker 6 it was a good moment for them. And just briefly on Ten Hag as well, Inios, in terms of the ownership or part owners, owners,

Speaker 6 he's clearly on trial, Ten Hag, right? And I think they're looking for a reason to not fire him. And I just wonder if games like yesterday, where tactically

Speaker 6 I don't think he showed anything amazing, but if he can show that, look, I've still got these guys playing for me, that may carry a lot of favor in terms of whether they think, okay, we will give you 200, 300 million more in the summer with a better infrastructure around you.

Speaker 5 I don't know. I think it might be heritage, you know, they're very into heritage, aren't they, knocking other teams off their perch.

Speaker 5 And I think it would be very apt to fire him after they've won the FA Cup, like they did with Louis Van Gogh. I think that, you know, heritage.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, it's a very good point.

Speaker 1 I do think, actually, in a way, what Jordan says there, Paul, about, you know, it wasn't really tactics. And like Liverpool clearly are the more assured team.
They look like the more assured team.

Speaker 1 But actually, something that is so beautiful about football is that actually vibes can sometimes just be the thing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure. I agree with that general principle.

Speaker 4 I i think in the game i didn't feel that way and i felt it was more about liverpool's mismanagement but they were in control they were too one up and then what started obviously playing in klops' mind was okay uh i've got other competitions coming up i'm in an absolute fight for the title all the way to the very last against what not one but two incredibly accomplished and uh

Speaker 4 unshakable teams. And so I've got to start thinking about which of my players are tied and who I'm going to rest.

Speaker 4 And on the 77th minute, he takes off Sobeslai, Salah, and Robertson, and basically takes off a lot of the leadership in that team. And

Speaker 4 I actually thought in the second half, United did better defensively. They kind of tucked in a little bit more.
There was no more Aaron Wan-Bissaka playing inside forward. And, you know,

Speaker 4 Liverpool looked a little bit contained, a little bit short of ideas. And then, but they were very much in control of the game.

Speaker 4 But I think those substitutions sent out a signal saying, oh, hang on a minute.

Speaker 4 If there's ever going to be a chance for United to get back in it, now's the chance because they've taken off the leaders and they're saying, Oh, we can afford to. It was a little bit of an insult.

Speaker 4 And then, you know, I think it was 10 minutes later, Anthony, you know, does the best thing he's done for United and the game turns around. So

Speaker 4 again, you know, Liverhole had it back in

Speaker 4 their favour in extra time as well, deflected, second deflected goal, but still they probably deserved it. But then, you know, Nunes,

Speaker 4 poor game management, gives the ball away, and then suddenly it turns around. So I feel like Liverpool

Speaker 4 presented United with a couple of opportunities, and United sees them.

Speaker 1 Robin, what did you make of Kobby Maynu's performance? I mean,

Speaker 1 I don't know how much time we'll have for the England squad, but the big question is sort of holding midfield, right? And he's so good. And it's like,

Speaker 1 he's just so much better than Jordan Henderson. It's just that

Speaker 1 when I'm watching him, that's all I'm thinking.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 I agree. It's just he doesn't have the experience, I suppose, but he kind of does now, doesn't he? I know he doesn't have an experience with an England shirt.

Speaker 5 It's just, yeah, I find it interesting because I do feel like Gareth Southgate has done this before. Like, he, when Calvin Phillips was brought in,

Speaker 5 he played a massive role and he barely had any sort of international experience.

Speaker 5 He was just superb, wasn't he? I guess the only thing is, I saw some Manchester United fans saying, actually, he's not really a holding midfielder. Oh, right.

Speaker 5 Because he was kind of going forward and we showed some great skill. So again,

Speaker 5 is that his kind of future role? But no, what a talent. And he just looks like he

Speaker 5 unflappable, which is obviously an excellent quality to have.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, England notoriously occasionally get flappable. You know, sound like us.
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 And actually, and I thought Diogo Dallo had another good game and sort of has quietly had a brilliant season in a season where nobody is pointing out good things that Manchester United are doing.

Speaker 1 And I was really impressed with him.

Speaker 5 Also, the galloping Garnacho, as he's still going, just, can you imagine if I did that today, I just be broken.

Speaker 5 He was in set. But I think that that comes back to something that Jordan was saying, that that kind of suggests that, yes, they do care and they actually are, they're not downing tools.

Speaker 5 Obviously, it's against Liverpool, so they do have the motivation. So maybe it doesn't have anything to do with Ten Haag.
But,

Speaker 5 you know, we have seen in the past, perhaps they do want to to get the manager gone.

Speaker 6 And that's why maybe the next game is key for United, because, you know, again, people always talk about derbies.

Speaker 6 It's easy to get up for a game against Liverpool, the rivals, stop the winning of quadruple.

Speaker 6 Can they, if that was any other opponent, do United play that well?

Speaker 6 That, again, from an ownership point of view,

Speaker 6 would be my view if I'm looking to kind of persevere with Ten Hag. Can you get that performance against Burnley away? Do you know what I mean? In the cup.

Speaker 1 Jürgen Klopp got slightly pissy with a Norwegian interviewer, paul um who was asking him very reasonable questions as far as i can tell i mean he also might be tired and it's always a tricky time to be interviewed um and klop is genuinely a good human but he does have form for this absolute absolutely i mean

Speaker 4 i think at the time of the announcement of his uh resignation you know because he made that very power he gave that very powerful interview and showed all his best qualities and you're kind of overwhelmed with that and there's this little voice at the back of my head thinking yeah but he can be a a real snipy so-and-so in the press conferences.

Speaker 4 And you know, he is. And I can, I have sympathy.

Speaker 4 I think if somebody was to had to be confronted with Oslot three times a week, every week, you'd probably go a little bit, he'd probably get a little bit grumpy at some points.

Speaker 4 And he's not alone either. I think if you move down the league table, you know, Mikel Arteta can do it.
Pep can obviously do it. I think I've even seen Ange do it.

Speaker 4 But the question I had is that, has anybody ever seen Emery be pissy with people?

Speaker 1 Oh, good question.

Speaker 4 I feel like he's somebody who kind of just always keeps it just about under control.

Speaker 4 But, you know, I think it's common for these guys are winners, they're battlers, they're fighters, they're gonna, you know, they invest so much in it when there is a kind of sense that maybe they have done something wrong.

Speaker 4 It doesn't surprise me that they get angry.

Speaker 6 I hear this whole argument about winners and that, you know, Klopp's a sore loser. So, you know, it's kind of understandable.
I'm not sure I ever buy that argument.

Speaker 6 I just don't think, maybe because I'm a polite person, I just don't think there's any need for being rude.

Speaker 6 I just think, I mean, my mum raised me with the mantra of you ask a stupid question, you expect a stupid answer. But this wasn't a stupid question.

Speaker 6 And as I think, sorry, Max, yourself or Paul said, he does have form for this. And I think that this general loving that Klopp's a great guy and he's amazing.
And I share some of his politics.

Speaker 6 So I don't want to write him off completely. But this isn't the first time where he's just been an, I can't use the word I want to use, but he's just been a you-know-what.

Speaker 6 And I just don't think it's acceptable. And I think, I just think you've lost the game.
You're clearly fuming. You were in control.
It's a big game. game.
I get it. There's just no need for that.

Speaker 6 I just don't think you should get off the hook or be allowed off the hook for that sort of behavior.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've said it before, but like the whole, I mean, Robin, you have to do this sometimes, right? You can't actually win.

Speaker 1 Like your questions can't be, it's actually impossible to ask a brilliant question. You're just saying, how was that for you? And if they're in a bad mood, they will go, well, what do you think?

Speaker 1 What a stupid question that is. Like, you could, with every question that is asked in a post-match, a manager could turn around and say, well, that's a stupid question.
How do you think I'm feeling?

Speaker 1 We've lost, you know, like, and the interviewer can't really be pushed them like, you know, Jeremy Paxson, because you might have to interview them next week.

Speaker 1 Or they might say, I don't want to talk to them. And then suddenly, you know, Patrick Davidson can't be like, if he pisses off Venger, you know, not Venger.

Speaker 1 It's a bit late for that, but, you know, Arteta and Ten Haag and Pep, then Skye might have to go, oh, that's tricky. We can't use him.

Speaker 1 I don't know, like, if you, I don't know how you feel, Robin, when you're in that situation. And it's horrible.

Speaker 5 I really dislike. That's probably the...
thing I dislike most because it's especially post-match because they have to come out, you know, and they're obviously fired up. So, I think both can be true.

Speaker 5 That I think he probably that was probably like his

Speaker 5 seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth interview, and he's probably a bit sick, you know, it's just had extra time. His team have lost and he wants to go home.
I get that, but I think John's right.

Speaker 5 Like, um, I don't, this whole winning thing, you can you can be a sort of bad loser, but also have a bit of class, and I really dislike it. And yeah, just but for Klopp, I love a lot about him.

Speaker 5 I love, I love the fact that he said, I'm tired, you know, and said, I'm leaving. I think that really is very powerful.

Speaker 5 And as John said, he's spoken up on a lot of issues, but he's been exceptionally rude to a lot of people, including my good colleagues. And it just makes me, yeah,

Speaker 5 he gets a black mark for doing that. I just feel like there's no need.
There really is no need.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No.
Daniel Astori, chief writer for The Independent, tweeted a huge section of the Stretford End singing Always the Victims and the Sun was right. Chance to Liverpool support was grim as ever.

Speaker 1 Then he tweeted this morning, arrests have been made, More will, because this is now established as a hate crime. Clubs and governing bodies have condemned.

Speaker 1 But yesterday felt like hundreds, even thousands, seems to be getting worse, caused a stain upon a brilliant game.

Speaker 1 The latest we've got is a Greater Manchester Police confirming that one arrest has been made in connection with tragedy chanting at the game.

Speaker 1 The FA has condemned the chanting, vowed to liaise with the police over the matter.

Speaker 1 They say it's entirely unacceptable, can have a lasting and damaging impact on people and communities within our game. It must stop.

Speaker 1 And we support any club and their fans who try to eradicate this and the terrorists. Manchester United say they're fully supportive of statements issued by the FA and the GMP.

Speaker 1 And the difficulty, whenever we discuss this, right, is even we, you know, and you know, we have a smart audience who care about these things, we'll get a few going, yeah, but you didn't hear it when they did this, you know, that there is still this,

Speaker 1 you know, and like we probably don't, we probably don't report on every single bit of hate chanting that goes on in football. It's obviously all grim

Speaker 1 and I don't really know what to add apart from that. Apart from my,

Speaker 1 I did write a piece about it a couple of years ago and I, when I was 16, sung dumb stuff, never really about tragedy, but about things that I didn't really know about.

Speaker 1 And I judge 16 year olds very differently to 40 year olds, but there is one video doing the round of a Man United fan making some pretty grim Hills-related gestures. I mean, it's really horrible.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, you hope he is dealt with in anyone else that does it.

Speaker 4 It's baffling how it can be growing. I just don't get that.
You know, I would have thought there's as much information as there ever has been out there explaining why this is wrong.

Speaker 4 And I presume these people know that, but still choose to do it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 On slightly lighter note, Richards, how many times will you mention Mark Robbins saving Sir Alex Ferguson's job between now and April the 20th when Coventry and Manchester United meet?

Speaker 1 Yeah, Mark Robbins scored, if you don't know, the only goal in Manchester United is 1-0 win over Nottingham Forest in the third round of the FA Cup in 1990.

Speaker 1 It was widely reported, or it was being widely reported ahead of that game that Fergie would be sacked if they lost.

Speaker 1 They meet each other because Coventry staged an amazing comeback at Molyneux after Wolves had staged quite a good comeback themselves to be winning the game going into injury time.

Speaker 1 And then Coventry scored twice. We established quite recently that nobody cares about Coventry, but we should probably start to care a little bit.
Jordan, what an ending to this match.

Speaker 6 It was brilliant. I want to just first of all say, you say no one cares about Coventry.
I've worked with a producer where I work for 13 years.

Speaker 6 He's the most miserable person you will ever meet in your entire life. But he was in the edit suite next door to me and we were doing the game.

Speaker 6 I've never heard him shout and scream and be so happy in the 13 years that I've been working with him.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 happy for Jack Taylor. It was a great game.
Great game.

Speaker 6 And they deserved it. I don't think Wolves were poor, but I do think Coventry were the better team.

Speaker 6 You could argue they should have had a bigger lead at halftime or should have been, they should have been definitely ahead at half-time because the amount of chance they created in that first half they were comfortable they were comfortable and again to be

Speaker 6 to be down late into the game and then seemingly the game's gone away from them and then to drag it to extra time and then nope we're not done yet we're going to win this now and go all the way with a really good finish as well um i i thought was brilliant and i think it's you know it's always good to have a team that's not on the big teams or from the premier league in in the last in the last four so no it was a it wasn't just a brilliant game it was a game they deserved to win i think over the course of the 90 90-plus minutes.

Speaker 1 And I mean, we have talked a bit on the EFL pods, Paul, about how well Mark Robbins has done. And they have, you know, a lot of players who are significant in this game for them.

Speaker 1 Hadgie Wright, Ellis Sims,

Speaker 1 Calamo Hare, who came on. You know, these are super talented players.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, I think for me, this was the classic of the weekend because,

Speaker 4 as Jordan has rightly described, you know, Coventry were excellent. You know, they did them.

Speaker 4 They played through them, they played around them, they played over them.

Speaker 4 They were just the better team. And uh, and then, and then, but Wolves found it in themselves to find a solution to that, scored two great goals.

Speaker 4 And then, you know, Coventry found it again in such a small space of time. I think that is really magic of the cop.
And you know, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 4 These players you pick out here, I think Callum O'Hare was injured for much of last season in their playoff run.

Speaker 4 Um, Sims, Sims and Hadji right at new signings. I think of the you know, effectively, they've, you know, they lost their two-star players over the summer, Geoko Rez and Hama.

Speaker 4 they've basically rebuilt the entire squad like i think i was comparing a couple match from last season with saturday i think only three players were were held over so you know they began the they began the championship season bobbing around the the relegation zone and they've he's just you know rebuilt the team found that sort of spirit and they look like they've got you know a number of different ways to play the The job he has done at Coventry over the past seven, eight years is is just phenomenal.

Speaker 4 I don't think there's any comparison kind of in current English football because he's not done it with money. He's done it with patience.
He's done it with player development.

Speaker 4 He's done it with excellent recruitment.

Speaker 4 Yeah, Coventry are

Speaker 4 a shining light, really, because again, you know, think about the exile in Northampton and things like that.

Speaker 4 They've really been on their uppers.

Speaker 1 And actually, for people of a certain age, Coventry are a top division team. There'll be lots of younger listeners going, no, I don't think that is true.
I can't remember when they were last in

Speaker 1 the Premier League.

Speaker 4 In the noughties under Strachan, wasn't it? Strachan and Hockerby and Dion Dublin.

Speaker 1 Yes, that's right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Kobe Jones. Yeah, that was a good, that was a good fun team.

Speaker 1 But like a bit of a bit more sky blue, you know, a sky blue that are sort of less predictably brilliant in the Premier League wouldn't be a disaster, Robin, would it? That'd be lovely.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Very pleased they didn't draw the other sky blues because that they kind of have a bit more of a chance actually to get to the final now with the up wins.

Speaker 1 Actually, it's a perfect draw, yeah.

Speaker 5 Pretty pretty much i mean maybe chelp would you think chelsea would be slightly i don't know uh maybe one of them um but yeah just not man city um but yeah all all great all great but we do have to address what mark offensed which is just the most pathetic

Speaker 5 ball boy wronging him i mean god what would have been like what

Speaker 5 11 12 years old i don't know how old the they are maybe maybe slightly older but still and celebrating in his face after the win i mean well

Speaker 1 it's just funny. Alan says, is celebrating in front of a child more or less disrespectful than eating a sandwich in front of a Premier League manager?

Speaker 5 We'll have to ask Chris Wilder so that could be in his next press conference.

Speaker 1 So Gary O'Neill, you know, who's got nothing but praise this season, the first time when I saw the Gary O'Neill post-match, I was like, come on, mate, you know, because he did.

Speaker 1 He sort of, he made the real point, Gary Neil saying, look, I was really respectful. You know, I waited.
They done well. I don't want to sound bitter.

Speaker 1 And then he went, then he sort of went, I thought it was disgusting. The boy is really upset.
And I was like, well, that seems a bit over the top. Mark Robbins really did go right.

Speaker 1 Let's go right in his face. And he is a child.
And like Mark Robbins did apologise. He did the right thing saying, you know, I'm apologising to him.
He's a young kid.

Speaker 1 The young kid had earlier dropped the ball and walked away smiling.

Speaker 1 He deserves a battering for that.

Speaker 1 It really annoyed me. So I celebrate in front of him.
I don't show emotion often, but that's what the FA Cup does to you by apologise unreservedly he's blaming the magic of the cup

Speaker 1 i think in a way every i think in a way everybody's come out okay from this jordan it's not the end of the world gary o'neill sounded a bit bitter but it was probably right mark robbins was probably wrong but he has apologized so hopefully the ball boy is okay you know i think everyone's fine now yeah everything that needs to happen in the end happened in the end apologies were given um yeah i think we can move on with our with our it was the cup your honor yeah

Speaker 1 but i also think as well mark robbins doesn't have a sort of aggressive face.

Speaker 1 So, you know, there are other managers, and I don't instantly want to go to Sean Dice, but there are other managers that if they did squat and like yell in your face.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think we talked about Klopp, right? If he did it, I think it'd be quite scary, actually, if you were a small child. Sort of quite demon head master vibes from Klopp.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Moyes could really sort of

Speaker 1 stare through you, wouldn't he? And it'd be, yeah, it'd be quite an angry celebrity.

Speaker 1 I think of all the managers, there's a sort of, you know, there's a, I want to say a cuddliness about Mark Robinson.

Speaker 5 He's lucky he's got a nice face, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's got a nice face. So I think, you know, sort of Paddington Bear type face.

Speaker 5 I think, you know, on Wolves, though, I mean,

Speaker 5 this was quite a big missed opportunity, wasn't it? Because they're going really well in the Premier League.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and I just say

Speaker 5 the last two goals, pretty criminal, you know, towards the end of the game, especially like, you know, they get it back to two-all, they think, okay, we'll do extra time.

Speaker 5 And then, you know, there's no defending there. So I think, yeah,

Speaker 5 just for them, it's a missed opportunity, but fantastic commentary and well-deserved.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think you're right. And they've got a lot of injuries, Wolves fans would probably say Rayon 8 Norrie does it really, really excellent.
But I do not disagree with you.

Speaker 1 And that'll do for part one. Part two will begin with Chelsea's win over Leicester.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Chelsea left it late, beating Leicester 4-2

Speaker 1 with Chikwamaka and Madwayke scoring in injury time.

Speaker 1 Producer Joel saying he's not sure he's ever heard so much booing from fans at a game that they ultimately won.

Speaker 1 And we'll get to the booing, specifically at Raheem Sterling, actually. I wonder if we should start, Paul, with those goals from

Speaker 1 and I guess because Chelsea is so random and they've got so many players that you don't spend any time talking about any of their players so i haven't really spent any time thinking about chickwamaka or madway and both their goals were brilliant i thought you were going to talk about axel de sazi but um

Speaker 4 yes uh yeah i mean that the the madareck the madarecki goal was combination of uh sort of real fifa goal wasn't it like really tight uh control at the at the most

Speaker 4 at the edge of the box most dangerous place in there to do it and then a rocket finish into the roof of the net uh the pass to Carney from Cole Palmer was excellent, you know, again, some sort of sublime touches from Palmer throughout that game.

Speaker 4 Um, so yeah, I mean, you know, Chelsea, Chelsea had the talent.

Speaker 4 I felt that a bit like watching United on the weekend, you know, like, oh, yeah, you know, you guys do have really talented players, you just can't show it on a regular basis.

Speaker 4 And that, you know, you get that in-game with Chelsea week in, week out. There's bits where they look great, and there's bits where they look awful.
And

Speaker 4 clearly,

Speaker 4 the fans are beginning to ask what it's all about.

Speaker 1 Weird season, though, Jordan, isn't it? You know, it's their second semi-final in a season where they've been terrible. They haven't lost to Man City yet this season.
So, like, they could.

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously, they're not the favorites for that semi-final.

Speaker 1 But let's talk about the own goal because

Speaker 1 that is why we watch football, right? It's just, I know he gets a bit of a nudge to Sarcy.

Speaker 1 And as Joel says, you know, it is unfortunate to have a name that is so close to disaster. I mean, like, obviously, whenever you make a mistake, that's going to be an issue.
But

Speaker 1 total heaven watching that ball go in, Jordan.

Speaker 6 It was beautiful. It was proper, proper.
Not even Sunday. That was Saturday League football.
That was like on the parks. Just, oh, what's happened there? Um, it was great.

Speaker 6 And I saw a few people trying to blame the positioning of the goalkeeper. I mean, really?

Speaker 6 No,

Speaker 6 that's completely disaster's fault. Um, uh, disaster's fault, even.

Speaker 6 Um, yeah, but when it happened, I he struck the ball when I was watching watching this game again at work and i just thought to myself uh oh straight away that's definitely coming in some back passes that are poor you can think the keeper can scramble and get there maybe keeper out and help him out it was just struck with so much so much conviction um you just knew the keeper had no chance no it was a thing of beauty for sure yeah i mean there's a question about you know the variety of own goals that you can get robin as to what is the you know the because that there's a beauty in this one

Speaker 1 that everybody knows that it's going in and everyone is powerless to stop it. And there's a long time,

Speaker 1 you know, between, you know, in relative terms, between the ball being struck and it going in.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if that is better than just when someone, I mean, my mind always goes back to Wayne Hatswell in an FA Cup game who controls the ball and then just twacks into the top corner.

Speaker 1 Like, like,

Speaker 1 you know, those two are sort of the two ends of the spectrum. I don't know.
I don't know. Look, we don't need to compare them.
Why can't we just love them all? But

Speaker 1 I don't know where you stand on your favourite type of own goal.

Speaker 5 I think you're right, because, like, yeah,

Speaker 5 as it's happening, the sort of hands go to the heads, don't they? And that's the real beauty of it. But that was, like, Leicester weren't in that game at all, were they, until that happened.

Speaker 5 And then, obviously, yeah, and before, was it before that Sterling took the penalty off Cole Palmer, who has scored every single penalty this season? So that was a bit baffling.

Speaker 5 Sterling didn't have a great day, did he?

Speaker 1 No, I mean, he didn't have a good game.

Speaker 5 They set up the set up Cole Palmer, didn't he?

Speaker 1 Yes, no, that's true. And he did that.
It was a lovely break, actually. But I don't watch Chelsea every game, Paul, and every minute of every game.

Speaker 1 So I don't, it feels to me that he's been quite good for them in this weird season.

Speaker 1 And Barney wrote a really brilliant piece last week about, you know, if this is it for England, actually how good he has been for England. But, you know, he got sticked for missing the penalty.

Speaker 1 He got stick when he took a free kick they wanted Cole Palmer to take. He got sticked when Mudrick went off.

Speaker 1 and then there was this bit when he went off when he some people booed and then some people applauded and then some people booed the people booing and he kind of applauded everyone and seemed to get everyone on side by the end but i don't know if it felt just sort of felt harsh because i think he's been quite good for them yeah i think he's been quite good i don't think he's been he's not been

Speaker 4 he's not been a leader of that team though has he i mean

Speaker 4 i think i think stand expectations of raheem sterling are high and uh there's a number of reasons for that. And some of them are probably

Speaker 4 not on, to be honest. You know, I think he might be held to standards that other people aren't held to.
But at the same time,

Speaker 4 there's been two seasons at City where he was that he delivered the numbers that kind of people expect him,

Speaker 4 a guy of his standing, who was a, you know, bought 50 million quid as a teenager to deliver. And I think we haven't seen that since.
And I think people are wanting that from him now.

Speaker 4 And they're not getting that. You know, Cole Palmer is more of an influence on this this team than Raheem Sterling is.
And,

Speaker 4 you know, I don't, I'm not for booing at any point

Speaker 4 in football grounds. I just don't, I don't get why you would boo your own players.
I don't think it's productive. I think it makes you look spoilt.

Speaker 4 I think it creates poisonous atmospheres within the grounds. I don't think it's good.
It shouldn't have happened. So, you know,

Speaker 4 I think the thing about Sterling is that

Speaker 4 he is always there. He never hides.
And I think that is something that is really valuable and probably underappreciated about him and something that Chelsea needs more of. So

Speaker 4 I do think he deserves to be on the pitch for Chelsea.

Speaker 4 But I think sometimes he's not quite, sorry, that sounds dismissive to say he deserves to be on the pitch. He is an important player for Chelsea and he deliver.
He

Speaker 4 delivers something important for them, but he has not always

Speaker 4 met expectations, I don't think.

Speaker 6 I can't think of a player in the Premier League that kind of has been more conflicting in terms of his talent than Raheem Sterling.

Speaker 6 Because I thought if you're an alien and you came down to planet Earth yesterday and watched that game and saw Sterling for the very first time, you'd think this guy is like league one.

Speaker 6 His technique at times is absolutely shocking. And that game, actually, I've seen that game from Sterling quite a few times throughout his career.

Speaker 6 But if you look at his career in his CV, there's a couple of seasons where he's got 20 plus goals for City. You know, for England, he was England's best player at

Speaker 6 last Euros, if I'm not mistaken. He's clearly a good player.
And I think to Paul's point as well, he's right. Bard Silver, Sterling's the most senior player in that team.

Speaker 6 And I just think for all he hasn't been shocking that he's been one of the few rays of light for that Chelsea team. I don't think he's actually led that team in a way that a player of his seasoning,

Speaker 6 I think, could have and should have.

Speaker 6 I thought the whole taking the penalty.

Speaker 1 Sorry to interrupt you. It was rude of me.
But you're not signing a leader when you sign Raheem Sterling.

Speaker 1 That's not just because he's old, just because he's older, but he is a player who is a confidence player, who delivers at the attacking, but he's not

Speaker 1 lead by his actions, I guess.

Speaker 6 Well, maybe leader is the wrong word, but when you sign Raheem Sterling from Manchester City for what they signed him from, he's not a kid anymore.

Speaker 6 I don't maybe expect necessarily leadership, but I expect a guy that

Speaker 6 can take games by the scruff of the neck more than he has done.

Speaker 6 i think there needs to be a few more good performances from sterling than there has been and i just don't think look there's been some poor players at chelsea since he's been there but i just think he'll look back on his time at chelsea when he doesn't even think was that move really the best move to make and did i really maximize my time at chelsea um i think he'll probably say no he hasn't but that's just my view if if you were an alien

Speaker 1 who came down to earth

Speaker 1 odd choice of first thing to do to go to stamford bridge

Speaker 1 on that day. And then, like, you've really assimilated if your first line is, God, his touch is League One.
I mean, like, that is amazing.

Speaker 1 That he's like, they're really, the aliens really, they've really given him a backstory. Like, he really knows, he knows his stuff.

Speaker 5 Sitting next to

Speaker 1 Adam Sandler as a guest of Tom Solo, kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Quite there, possibly.

Speaker 4 They've probably got a data analysis team on the flying saucer.

Speaker 1 But he goes through the video,

Speaker 4 flips it up.

Speaker 1 It always reminded me when, you know, in the lizards, you know, and like, you know, there's the shape-changing lizards, and like someone was Reagan, and someone was Thatcher, and someone was Chris Christopherson.

Speaker 1 And you imagine if you're with that lizard, you'd be like, Why am I, why have I been giving this one? This seems a bit odd. Why am I Bob Hope?

Speaker 1 Why am I the leader of the free world?

Speaker 1 Seems like you don't really respect me, my alien abilities.

Speaker 1 Anyway, to the Etihad, Manchester City beat Newcastle 2-0. I mean, Paul, do we need to say a lot about this football match? It sort of went as we,

Speaker 1 you know.

Speaker 4 I feel like there must, there must be something. I feel like there's a subtext about Newcastle here, but I feel like lots of people know this better than me.

Speaker 4 I'm just, I'm looking at Newcastle and going, what's happened to you this season?

Speaker 4 You know, it's a fail for me. I know there's lots of,

Speaker 4 you can put the case for Newcastle and the injuries and

Speaker 4 the packed schedule and stuff. But I'm like, you are nowhere near where you were last season and you spent, you know, nearly 100 million in the summer.

Speaker 4 So, um, and I know the reasons why a lot of that talent isn't out there, but yeah, I mean, two deflected Bernardo silver goals, which are pretty much identical, and the game's over within 20 minutes.

Speaker 4 I mean, that is city,

Speaker 4 uh, that's what they do, and um, but you know, last season, Newcastle wouldn't Newcastle wouldn't let them do it, I don't think.

Speaker 1 Let's go to the Premier League then. Uh, in the race for fourth, a bit like last year, I think nobody wanted fourth, and it feels like maybe Spurs, neither Spurs or Villa, want fourth.

Speaker 1 Obviously, last week after Spurs hammered Villa, we decided that that was it, done and dusted. And, you know, they went on what looked like quite a nice trip to Fulham.

Speaker 1 And how wrong we were, Robin, because Fulham were brilliant in this game. You know, Matt says, looking forward to Fulham's win being reviewed as how bad Spurs were.
Arsenal United, Spurs all defeated.

Speaker 1 We've still to play Liverpool at City at the cottage. We're going to have a big say in the title race.

Speaker 1 I know Barry has been struggling to work out how good Fulham are, but like on this evidence, really quite good.

Speaker 5 Yeah, this is what they can be. They really can be.
I did their game last week against Wolves, and they basically just missed all their good chances, and this was them taking them.

Speaker 5 So they have no problem creating them.

Speaker 5 You know, Anthony Robinson rampaging down the left, fantastic ball in for the first. Muniz, I mean, this is proper catch-up bottle stuff from him, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 5 just couldn't hit a barn door. Then suddenly it's all come.

Speaker 1 He looks proper player.

Speaker 5 And yeah, no, they were superb. I mean, I think we do have to say, I think pretty much across the board, you know, Son said it, Ange Postacogly said it, just the intensity wasn't there,

Speaker 5 you know, and Fulham had it. Because, yeah, there wasn't any pressure really to stop these crosses in and things like that.
Did miss a few chances, didn't they, Spurs?

Speaker 5 But no, absolutely well-deserved win from Fulham. But, yeah, very eye-catching scoreline considering what happened last week with Spurs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, every time Spurs lose, Paul, we get a few questions, such as this one from Jelly Belly saying, has Big Ange and Project High Line finally been found out?

Speaker 1 Spurs were utterly woeful against a well-drilled Fulham who were set up perfectly to hurt that line. Is it time to call out Ange for being completely naive yet?

Speaker 1 You can't play one way in the Premier League. You get found out.

Speaker 4 He's not the only manager who plays with a consistently high line, is he? That's Liverpool's mode as well.

Speaker 4 And that third goal, I mean, I thought, you know, he got Mooney's bundles over Dragasan. up two yards out to poke it in.
It's not a high line goal, that one.

Speaker 4 It's a Spursy goal where the defender didn't want it as much as the striker.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 4 I think, you know,

Speaker 4 he is a model,

Speaker 4 he is a guy who has a philosophy and they're going to play it that way.

Speaker 4 But I think it's, and I think good teams with good coaches and the right weapons will be able to kind of ask questions of Spurs and damage them in that way.

Speaker 4 However, I think Postakogu is a good coach with good players, and you can then kind of develop the tactics within a game to compensate for that.

Speaker 4 So I don't think it's as simple as kind of that tactic, that model has been exposed. He will never win another game.
But I think sometimes

Speaker 4 they are going to get beaten by other teams because they're not at that stage of their development yet.

Speaker 4 I mean, not just in the Posta Koglu project, but in the Spursy project, which, as you know, Max is a lifetime struggle to eradicate this

Speaker 1 weakness.

Speaker 5 Max, is it the absence of Van der Wenn that's a bit that's a bit concerning that like when he's not there

Speaker 5 a bit more exposed he's such a brilliant

Speaker 1 He's not just really fast. Like, he can read the game, but what he can do as a defender is turn his man and bring the ball, carry the ball with a sort of incredible stride.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean,

Speaker 1 I don't know how long he will be at Tottenham. I think he'll be there a while because I think people like it, but you could see him really going.

Speaker 1 quite a long way in the game, you know, to the absolute peak. I think he's a stunning footballer.
So you obviously will miss players like that. Quite interesting.

Speaker 1 Ange was asked on on Friday if Premier League clubs were targeting foreign fans by increasing prices.

Speaker 1 And Ange said, that's really harsh. I'll tell you why, because I'm probably plastic and a tourist because I was coming from the other side of the world,

Speaker 1 really passionate about football. And if I could get access to see a Premier League game, that was the world to me.

Speaker 1 The football club has supporters all over the world, has supporters all over the UK that don't always get access to games,

Speaker 1 to the games of people who live here. I think it's interesting.
My whole view of since moving has changed on tourist fans because,

Speaker 1 and i think i've said this before so apologies if i'm repeating myself but the fans here who support premier league or efl sides or whatever who who either go to a pub you know they all meet i don't know perth spurs fans for example or whatever you know liverpool fans in sydney and whenever the game is they'll go the same pub at 1 a.m 2 a.m 3 a.m you know like football in the uk if you are a fan of a club in the uk it's just served to you on a plate right you might not be able to go to the games understand that season tickets are hard to get etc but like if you make a lifelong commitment to do anything at two in the morning well like fair play to you you you are a fan are you a genuinely a fan so then if you use the money that you earn to fly across the world to go and see a football match to get to go to the effort to get that ticket then it shouldn't be dismissed right there obviously ticket prices are a huge issue and you know

Speaker 1 who deserves to go to a game is is is tough, you know, but you can't just say you don't like football because you didn't grow up next to Gooderson Park or next to the Abbey Stadium or next to Whiteheart Lane or whatever.

Speaker 1 Um, Paul Ann Jordan wants to come in, Paul.

Speaker 4 Um, yeah, I think uh, shouldn't uh Spurs then be subsidizing the ticket prices for those fans who are coming from all over the world and are spending a load of money to get there in the first place.

Speaker 1 I mean, oh, I don't think they should be raising their prices, right? I mean, that's a separate, I think they're two separate conversations.

Speaker 1 I mean, I like prices are too expensive for football fans in a lot of stadiums.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't think there's any, I think, I think if that's sorry, that was my understanding of what you're saying, Poster Coggie was sort of explaining explaining it that way, But like, you know, I think that the idea that prices should be going up anywhere for anybody in the Premier League round is just wrong.

Speaker 4 I think it's chiseling the fans. And

Speaker 4 I don't think it's right.

Speaker 6 I think what you know, what Postakolge said was correct and he was roundly applauded for what he said.

Speaker 6 And I think the term plastic fans is offensive anyway.

Speaker 6 But I think two things can be true, because I heard someone made an interesting point on Twitter that whilst fans that aren't from England should be respected because they love their club just as much as anybody, as anybody.

Speaker 6 And to your point, Max, arguably more if they're getting up at four in the morning to watch Burnley versus Luton or whatever the fixture may be.

Speaker 6 The reason why the Premier League is so popular and the brand is so big is because the fans that, albeit, can, but do go every single week. So

Speaker 6 I don't think we should disrespect the supporters that are not in England.

Speaker 6 But equally, I think we should remember that those that the brand of the Premier League is what it is because for 30 years, your hardcore fans travel home and away.

Speaker 6 Now they can, you in Australia can't Mac. So there's obviously a that's quite obvious but I didn't like the kind of

Speaker 6 forgetting that again the brand is strong because Premier League games are packed and have been packed every single week for 30 years and those people go every week because they can but they do sure and you know I

Speaker 1 you should support your local team as well is something that I believe.

Speaker 1 So I don't know how that marries up but I think you know these two you know I think you can support a local team and your big team and win things. I don't get me down that route, of course.

Speaker 1 So Villa could capitalize, and they didn't really, did they, Robin? Uh, drawing one all at West Ham. Some really good VAR.

Speaker 1 I think it got them right, did it? The VAR? I don't know. I think it probably did, but it just took so long.
And it almost feels harsher because it's so late, especially the 96th minute one.

Speaker 5 Yeah, no, I think they did in the end because on Match the Day, I just saw Michel Antonio was saying that Bowen got the last touch on

Speaker 5 what was the potential winner.

Speaker 1 The handball, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 But actually, even then, they were saying he did kind of move his hand towards the ball. So, I mean, oh, God, it is tedious, isn't it? I'm boring myself with this, but

Speaker 5 probably a fair result. As I mentioned before, you know, Villa in particular had a really energy sapping.
They were fantastic against Ajax

Speaker 5 on Thursday night. I think DiRB,

Speaker 5 who was brilliant in that game, made a big impact coming off the bench against West Ham. And yeah, I mean,

Speaker 5 again, yeah, maybe a bit of a missed opportunity for Villa, but, you know,

Speaker 5 they've got a conference league to win, haven't they?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and actually, they've got quite a tricky draw in that. Leal is actually the one team that I think they probably wanted to avoid.

Speaker 5 Well, and West Ham.

Speaker 1 And West Ham have Baya-Laborkusen, right? Which is brilliant because

Speaker 1 I don't know why I think West Ham can beat Baya-Laborkusen, but I think they can. And I don't think that's just from a sort of Premier League hubris way.

Speaker 1 Labour Cousin a brilliant team and are playing brilliantly.

Speaker 1 West Ham occasionally beat really good teams, Paul. I don't know what you think.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, I sort of felt that as well. There's just this sort of,

Speaker 4 I think with David Moy, sometimes he doesn't mind putting a little bit of grit in the food. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 There'll be something in there that just kind of not going to work out play you, but will make it very difficult for you to play your way as well. And he's not afraid of that.

Speaker 4 And, you know, sometimes that's to his detriment in terms of his reputation. But it quite often gets results on the football field.
So, yeah, I still

Speaker 4 think Jabbi Alonso's Saint-Didron is likely to continue for a bit longer as I think they'll win. But I could see that too, a possibility.

Speaker 4 I think West Ham have really come on this season. They're not, you know, they're a bit like Spurs.
There's going to be moments where they're going to be inconsistent.

Speaker 4 But I think, you know, you look at that front four that they're putting out there, that's a good front four.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that kudos goal, um but he scored two i think didn't he but the one where he just ran past everyone it was a it was you said a fifa goal this is like a striker on the amiga goal it was an amazing goal and just yeah effortless it all looked effortless it looked

Speaker 6 a lot george weir yeah

Speaker 1 kind of way a like

Speaker 1 yeah i was gonna say this sounds ridiculous it was almost more

Speaker 1 like graceful than than than the george than the the one george weyer goal i am thinking of but obviously there were quite a few George Weaver goals, weren't they?

Speaker 1 Anyway, that'll do for part two. Part three will begin at Kenilworth Road.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Luton won, Forrest one.

Speaker 1 Pretty tense down there at the bottom of the Premier League. Forrest, 25 points from 29.
Luton, 22 from 29.

Speaker 1 Great for Luke Berry. I mean, I watched this guy as a kid at Cambridge

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 to see him scoring in the Premier League is great. You feel that real pride as a lower league fan to see

Speaker 1 your players go on and just his joy because he's got almost no football here. He's one of those few players that scored for Luton in League Two, League One, the Championship and the Premier League.

Speaker 1 And Robin, they needed that. They massively needed that goal, didn't they?

Speaker 5 Oh, hugely, especially after, yeah, after what happened in midweek, giving away a three-goal lead to come away with nothing against Bournemouth. I I think that that could be massive.

Speaker 5 I think if they'd come away with nothing, that would have been huge psychologically. I mean, they're still in sort of danger of letting this season peter out a bit.

Speaker 5 You know, they're obviously, you know, there's plenty of fight,

Speaker 5 but are we seeing a bit more... Yeah,

Speaker 5 it's going to be interesting, obviously. And, well, it might be very interesting.
I think it's today or tomorrow we might see if Forrest get points deduction. So that could make things interesting.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 I did see some Forest fans saying, Why did we sack Steve Cooper if this is what's happening now?

Speaker 5 Because Nuno, I mean, has he had a big impact? I'm not sure. I did his first game in charge,

Speaker 5 yeah. No, I did his first game, and they were very unlucky to lose against Bournemouth.
Do you remember it was

Speaker 5 Willie Bolly got sent off for that ridiculous

Speaker 1 for a good tackle? For a really good tackle, yeah.

Speaker 5 And obviously, they beat Newcastle really well, didn't they? Chris Wood scored a hat-trick.

Speaker 5 But then I feel like, yeah, since then, I just, you know, Steve Cooper was the saint, and you know, Nuno is going to have to do something a bit more, I think, to kind of banish his memory.

Speaker 5 And I think they're just feeling like, well, what was the, what was all the upheaval about?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I sort of feel, Jordan, with Luton, that

Speaker 1 I feel so exhausted watching them because they're in so many games. Like, they have...
It's not like they just lost a lot of games really easily and then turned up occasionally.

Speaker 1 They seem to turn up all the time and then just narrowly miss out. You know, the Bournemouth game is a case in point, but all those home games against the top sides.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, that sort of, I don't know that. And in that way, that should give them hope, right? That they are, they're

Speaker 1 very rarely getting done. But I just,

Speaker 1 in my mind, it just makes me feel tired for them.

Speaker 6 A little bit. And you think that they've put in, well, they have put in so much effort and so much commitment to so many games and to get so little from them.

Speaker 6 Yes, on one side, you think, well, okay, we know we can go close with all these teams.

Speaker 6 But on the other side, you think to yourself, it can be demoralizing to know that we're giving everything, we're getting so close, but yet we constantly come up with nothing to little.

Speaker 6 So how long that can last for, I don't know.

Speaker 6 The fact they're scoring goals, I think, is a good sign. I think down at the bottom, scoring goals is really, really important.
Obviously, to stop letting them in as well.

Speaker 6 But I think if you've got goals in your team, I think down there, you've always got a chance. I think that should give them hope.

Speaker 6 I'm still quite positive about them staying up, but yeah,

Speaker 6 they need to at some point turn this commitment and this effort into points.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they've scored 42, Forrest have scored 35, Everton and Burnley 29 and Sheffield United 24.

Speaker 1 Burnley beat Brentford, who aren't totally out of this Paul, are they, Brentford? I mean, no, they're not.

Speaker 1 And, you know, okay, this game was decided pretty early on

Speaker 1 for a red card. I mean, I think it was, wasn't it? It just felt like a weird one to me, but in what way? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I just wasn't ready for it.

Speaker 1 I felt like I wasn't ready.

Speaker 4 I wasn't ready on what either.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no, I think it was a penalty. I think it was a red card, but I just didn't feel ready.
I was ready for that decision. I was just surprised.
I shouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 1 It was the right application of the law, but I wasn't ready for it.

Speaker 1 Does that make any sense?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, the sort of you could the idea that the referee will let things roll a little bit in the early part of the game.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 No, I mean, I think, I think it's there's something about Brentford. I think Brentford might just squeak, particularly because I think

Speaker 4 the big factor we're talking about, which Robin's already mentioned, I think is the points, the potential points deductions for Forrest and Everton.

Speaker 4 Again, you know, that that would, I think that could be a very significant factor going forward. Um, and that might leave Brentford enough.
But I

Speaker 4 the times I've watched them this season, I feel like there's a little bit, they're a little bit stale. And, you know, this is the third season.

Speaker 4 It's that, you you know it's the new second season syndrome you know because you can guard against second season syndrome by reinforcing doubling down but it the the the mental and physical toll on a small squad that relies on key players i think is ongoing and debilitating and i feel that that's where brentford are at and i don't think and tony's scored some goals since coming back but i don't think everybody knowing that ivan tony wants out at some point that suits everybody has been a great help either Burnley still have to pay Sheffield United, Everton, and Bournemouth, Robin.

Speaker 1 Just imagine if they won all of those.

Speaker 5 That would be, I mean, that would be absolutely incredible. I don't think it's going to happen.

Speaker 5 But no, I mean, they've given themselves a little bit of hope.

Speaker 5 For Farners, looked like a good signing. He was kind of at the centre of everything.
Nearly did a D on Dublin on Shea Given.

Speaker 1 He did miss a sitter. Oh, yes, he did.

Speaker 5 Nearly did that. Yeah, missed a sitter.

Speaker 5 Then scored a really good goal. Also, he dropped the goalkeeper, James trafford that was quite a big call some people saying that it came a bit late so amurich had a good game so no you

Speaker 1 so they're four points

Speaker 1 yeah four points off i think is it they four points so not not like toad oh no no they're they're five points behind luton and eight points behind forest so eight they might be yeah you know round their radios or you know on their phones maybe you know how big the points deduction is robin and you just let it slip no no idea.

Speaker 1 Anyway, the Champions League draw. Quite lopsided quarterfinals.
Again, like last year, sort of a strong side and a weak side.

Speaker 1 Anyone know why they is there a reason why they do all of these now, sort of for organisational purposes, rather than do the quarterfinals and then draw the semifinals when the quarterfinals are done?

Speaker 1 I mean, it is still a brilliant draw, Jordan.

Speaker 1 I don't know how you're feeling about it. Oh, yes, Paul, you have an answer for me.

Speaker 4 Well, I could just, I sat through a two-hour-long presentation from UEFA last week about the new championship.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 which is that it was, it was really interesting that had really Seferin wasn't there, but a lot of the other senior UEFA bods were there.

Speaker 4 And they were really, really amped about getting involved in a kind of

Speaker 4 new seedings, new ways of deciding tides, league table positions,

Speaker 4 all this exciting stuff. And it's just like, I...
my brain was fried. It was just far too many little rules and regulations.
But

Speaker 4 they want to make it fully seeded

Speaker 4 from next year, so more like a tennis open.

Speaker 4 And so, I kind of feel like that is there's something of that in the draws currently, that they want to kind of give people a route to the end so they can kind of plan it and kind of think about it.

Speaker 1 I suppose we have it at the World Cup, and I'm perfect, I'm perfectly happy with it at the World Cup. In fact,

Speaker 1 I thrive on it at the Euros and the World Cup going, have we got an easy draw? Do we need to draw with Serbia? You know, all this ridiculous, you know, stupidity.

Speaker 1 Um, how do you feel about Arsenal Bayern, Harry Kane coming back, Jordan, to score at the Emirates?

Speaker 6 Honestly, people will think I'm talking absolute bollocks, but I'm like, bring it on.

Speaker 6 I wanted to draw City because I just think if Arsenal are in this new iteration of Arsenal are going to be, you know, this top club, this big European team that are going to do things, we're out of the mud, 20 years of being a banter club.

Speaker 6 If we're going to really be doing things of significance,

Speaker 6 why are we hiding away from the big team? Let's Let's take them on. If Bayern beat us, Bayern beat us.
But do I think we can beat them over two leads? 100%.

Speaker 6 The Harry Kane factor is obviously very significant in as far as he's a world-class striker.

Speaker 6 I think the fact that he's ex-Tottenham is just a narrative that podcasts and Sky and Talksport will drum down our necks for the next two weeks, however long it is. It's not really relevant.

Speaker 6 What's relevant is he's a top, top striker. And I'm just like, bring it on.

Speaker 1 I think it is a bit relevant, isn't it?

Speaker 6 I mean, I'm with you that narrative is sometimes overblown, but like, it's quite a big, I feel like that's an acceptable narrative to be excited about him being ex-tottenham is not going to make him play better or worse he's going to want to win the game because he wants to win a trophy he's scored a lot of goals against arsenal though isn't he that's the that's not but that's not that's a topnam that isn't that

Speaker 6 in terms of a buying munich so i'm not i'm not really too bothered about him being ex-spurs i just think it's a it's it's a it's a game where arsenal has to be ready for the only thing i'm concerned about is arsenal's lack of what i would call european seasoning we've got we're on great form i think we've got great players Biparteto's cooking.

Speaker 6 But I just think what we don't have is that is that nous in Europe at the latter stages.

Speaker 6 I know we've got to the final once before, but if we lose this game, I think we'll lose it on just against a team that knows how to navigate Europe. And I think that

Speaker 6 you can't buy that. You can't just get that.
That takes years of heartbreak and learnings. But no, I'm not.
I think it's a good tie. It's an exciting tie.
This is where we want to be. Bring it on.

Speaker 1 Real Madrid, City, Robin.

Speaker 1 I mean, City obviously demolished Real Madrid last year in that quite amazing half. The year before, obviously, Courtois was amazing and Real somehow got through.

Speaker 1 Can you make a case for Real Madrid here? Not really.

Speaker 5 They've not been very good, have they? And they've kind of scraped through the vibe.

Speaker 1 Scraped through Leipzig, definitely. I mean, they're doing well in La Liga.

Speaker 5 The vibe team. I mean, obviously, they've got Bellingham and Anchilotti's eyebrows, but can they can they go through on that alone? I mean, I can't see.

Speaker 1 I think that's harsh on Vinicius and Rodrigo to case Angelotti's eyebrows is more important than them and Camovingo and Chiumani. They've got a wonderful team, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think over two, that'd be really interesting. I think that's a fascinating side of the draw.
And then you've got PSG Barca and Athleti Dortmund.

Speaker 1 Barca hammered athleti actually the weekend, didn't they? At the Wanda.

Speaker 1 And I don't think, Paul, I don't think Sumeone's lost a home game in the Champions League knockouts as athletic manager, which is quite extraordinary.

Speaker 1 But could this could like this is PSG must look at that and say, oh, of all the years we're going to screw it up This will be a really bad one to screw up

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean

Speaker 4 Where do we think where do we think PSG are in terms of its institutional kind of

Speaker 4 knowledge of how to get through in European tournaments?

Speaker 4 Because yeah, I think what they've done this year was rejuvenate the squad get rid of the star name sort of try and actually build a team is good and that's the right way to go and I think it ultimately gives them a better chance of winning the Champions League but whether they're ready for that right now I don't I don't know Barcelona, you know, have managed to find the results when they've needed them in the Champions League and

Speaker 4 kind of clinging on to the Maria Madrid coattails in the Ligo.

Speaker 4 I think it's a tough call.

Speaker 4 I think

Speaker 4 everybody wanted to play Dortmund and Atletico got the opportunity.

Speaker 4 And so I think it could be another good one for Simeoni this year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, possibly. Paul, we're doing any FL pod tomorrow, but you're allowed a minute on Norwich.

Speaker 4 are you uh you're ticking along all right we're doing good yeah we're playing a lot better than we've played for the past 18 months so yeah it's great and it's another one just the sort of on a broader thing that means

Speaker 4 our manager has not been sacked and he's turned the team around and six months ago the vituperation for our manager was just

Speaker 4 unrelenting and I kind of feel like it's a little little reminder for everybody that it's not that a manager if a manager in Veter Commerce loses the dressing room or has no plan B, that doesn't necessarily mean they can't win back the dressing room or develop a plan B over time.

Speaker 4 And I think that's maybe one of the lessons.

Speaker 4 Although I think I still kind of think that probably

Speaker 4 he's maybe not around for the long term, but

Speaker 4 he's done

Speaker 4 a very impressive job.

Speaker 1 Dan says an improvement for Cambridge is they only lost by four. Yes, a slightly disappointing week.
Played 2-1-0, drawn 0, lost 2-4-0 against 10.

Speaker 1 But yeah, and a six-pointer away at Reading at the weekend. Sorry about Gary Monk.
I don't know what Gary Monk must be thinking. Like, why did I? I wasn't managing anyone.
It was not very stressful.

Speaker 1 And now I've just shipped 10.

Speaker 1 What's that anyway? It's really bleak. Anyway, we'll do it on the EFL.
The Reading is a big story. They might be news of a much-needed takeover by the time we record the EFL pod tomorrow.

Speaker 1 So hopefully, we'll bring you that news. Paul says, Is Barry lying low until the Fiore over his 15 million pound donation to the Tories dies down?

Speaker 1 A tiny bit like Frank Hester, doesn't he? I mean, I mean, let's see more like him or Tom Watson. I'm not sure.
Of politicians that look like Barry, which has a TV show in it somewhere.

Speaker 1 Anyway, he's back on Thursday, everybody. Don't worry.
And that'll do for today. Thanks, Jordan.

Speaker 6 Cheers, mate.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Paul. Thanks, Max.

Speaker 5 Cheers, Robin. Cheers, Max.

Speaker 1 Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Max Sanders.

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.