Atlético rock Inter and Bournemouth bounce back – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly and we'll get to one of the games of the season in the Premier League in a little bit.

But we've got a Sidlo cameo, which means the Champions League and Lautaro Martinez baggioing it, and Affletti going through to the quarterfinals.

All the cliches they're never right off Diego Simeone turning it around against Europe's form team.

And Inter are out.

A night for feeling that former player doing well pride for Manchester United fans as Memphis Depay turns it around for Affletti while Jadon Sancho does it in Dortmund.

An early goal sets them on their way and they just about do enough against PSV.

Then to Bournemouth, Diddy Rayola try the Lads, it's Luton team talk.

3-0 down to 4-3.

The Hatters again so close to getting something, but a glorious turn from Dominic Solanke sets the Cherries on their way to a stunning comeback.

We'll look ahead to the FA Cup quarterfinals and the Premier League fixtures.

There are fears about Andy Townsend's dinner.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Matthew says a very erudite panel, but he did write that before he knew that Sid was on for part one.

So I don't know if it's now no longer erudite, but welcome, Sid.

Apologies for ruining everything.

Yeah.

Archie Rin Tutt, hello.

Hello.

Hello, Jonathan Wilson.

Morning.

How are you doing?

I'm very good.

Thank you.

Hello, John Bruin.

Hello.

Isn't Sid the most qualified of us here?

So

I think he does add to the erudition, in fact.

I'm sorry, Jonathan.

I think that's true, actually.

He says.

No, no.

My doctorate is merely honoring.

Oh, God, he had to mention it, didn't he?

Wow.

Biggest twat of the season.

I never thought that would be on a pod that Barry wasn't on, but there we are.

Anyway,

let's start at the Wanda Metropolitano.

Athletic two into one, Athletic going to on penalties.

Jez says, Did Martinez's pen going up hit Chris Waddles coming down, which I enjoyed.

Sid, you were there.

Had a very late night, got up early for us.

How was it?

It was brilliant.

It was a really great occasion in terms of the noise, the excitement, the tension, and also the way that Atletico played.

They kind of really went for Inter to start with, and you thought, okay, well, maybe there's a chance here.

But it felt to me, I don't know about you're not watching on the telly, but it felt like Inter had the control of it, that it was all right, Atletico going at them.

They were going to pick their way through them.

They did it a couple of times before they scored.

And when it went 1-0, to be honest, you thought, that's it, it's done.

A bit of a joke goal for Griezmann.

Inter made a horrendous, horrendous mess of it.

But after that, from the second half all the way through the second half, Atletico, I think, looked more likely to win it.

Although, again, Inter had two really, really good chances to have killed it off.

And Memphis Depay was, I mean, he was kind of superhuman.

People were bouncing off him.

It was like he was absolutely unstoppable.

When he scored the goal, which he scored on, what was it, 88 minutes or something?

He'd had basically three chances in six or seven minutes.

It was a third of them.

And he smacked one off the post, another that he couldn't quite sort of turn and get in from really, really close range.

And he was just...

kind of dragging Athletico through it.

It was the difference between him and Alvin and Murata was quite telling, to say the least.

Yeah.

And tell us about it.

I mean, it did.

I felt like I could hear it in Australia when Depay scored that goal in the 87 because they'd hit the post, hadn't they?

And then they scored it.

And then even Correa could have done it in 90 minutes.

Well, I don't know if you noticed this.

I don't know if it was picked up.

But as when

Depay scores, he goes sprinting towards the corner.

Obviously, everyone's chasing him.

The normal sort of footballer scores goal thing.

Everyone's running after them.

The noise is incredible.

Simeoni sets off to join them and it pulls up and he pulled a hamstring and he kind of sort of stops very sharply and turns and hops back to the bench looking really, really, really sheepish.

And you think, well, that's a nice Simeoni moment.

We're going in Trickshot.

And then we had another one because Griezmann set up

Raquelme, wasn't it?

For the winner.

Was it Raquelme?

Or was it Raquelme or was it Balagos?

No, it was Raquelme.

No, no, it was Raquel.

Sets up Raquelme

with...

20 seconds to go.

Simeon just lying face down on the bench thinking, I can't believe this has happened.

To be fair, Raquelme played really well after that.

that.

I thought that could have sunk him, played really well and scored his penalty.

But even Depay's, you know, we talk about Depay's impact on the game, even his penalty was brilliant.

And he took a penalty like he was trying, like he spotted someone in the crowd who he wanted to smash in the face.

But the only way to do it was to go through the net to them because it's so hard.

Yeah, it was Julian Dix taking Schmeichel into the goal with him.

It was Kevin Pressman.

Kevin Press was.

Yeah, absolutely.

What did he make of it, John?

Amazing atmosphere.

Incredible Simeone ball, really.

The Champions League gets a lot of criticisms, but I suppose there are certain constants, and one of those is Simeone's

sort of wrecking ball football, unapologetic.

You know, there won't be any sort of change to the style of football.

I mean, I suppose there's slight adjustments that Sid could run us through, but we know what you're getting.

I was listening to a talk sport the other day, as I do sometimes, and Graeme Soonas.

Great shows.

Great shows on there.

But Graeme Sunas was on it, and Graham Sunas uh talked about our football and our league and their sequence of our

and it and it was just amazing.

And I just thought, so I thought I thought about our league, and I think the Champions League, one of its qualities these days is it's like it's like a vintage, as in the second-hand online store version of the Champions League.

Because that penalty shootout, you had it missing, you had Saul, Chelsea reject,

you had

Alexis Sanchez.

Okay, you had Memphis taking a wonderful penalty.

I mean, we'll get on to Jaden Sancho later.

I mean, it's just, it's just, you know, you're meeting old friends in the Champions League these days if you're our league.

It's like a sort of dad's army type of thing, isn't it?

But yeah, it was a great game.

And, you know,

in these days where we say that everything isn't as good as it used to be.

Thank God for that tie.

It was great fun.

Were you slightly disappointed with Inter, Jonathan?

We'd heard so much, you know.

I mean, it is a sign.

We saw Arsenal who are tearing out in the Premier League find Porto very difficult.

Inter, who are flying in Serie A, but it just doesn't necessarily translate.

Yeah, I mean, I thought the same after the first leg, to be honest, where the first half of the first leg, I thought Inter were really poor, and they were better the second half and they got the goal.

But then, yeah,

the first half yesterday, I sort of

when they went ahead, I started to think, oh, maybe I'm being a bit unfair and maybe they have actually controlled the game pretty well.

At that point, Atlantic, I hadn't really created a huge amount.

They had some crosses, but I hadn't really any clear chances.

Loads of crosses, but not a lot, yeah.

But then as soon as Gresman scored, it was a farcical game.

I mean, Pavar's sort of

attempted clearance.

He sort of hooks backwards.

He has struck balls better than that in his career, hasn't he?

Yeah.

Although I think that other one was a missing as well.

But that's not going to last.

But they were pretty bad after that.

And the extra time, actually, they rallied slightly.

But yeah, I thought they were poor.

Or poor's too strong.

They were just a little bit flatter, a little bit less than what I thought they might be, given their Serie R record, given what I've heard people who watch Italian people regularly say about them.

And you know how you get some players who they're clearly really good players, but whenever you watch them, they're crap.

Like Tony Martinez, how has he scored 23 goals in Serie A?

Every time I watch him, he misses chances.

I just don't understand.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

How do I get every bad game he plays?

I used to think this, honestly, with Cavani.

I could never see how Cavani was a good player.

And

it was the same as you.

I kept thinking to myself, it must be me.

He can't have these numbers.

He can't be this good and yet quite demonstrably not be good every time I watch him.

It can't be his fault.

It must be mine.

So in Lautano's defense,

maybe he's got that many goals because he's had so many chances.

Because I thought the way that he played last night,

despite the penalty miss, he's entitled to look at teammates and say, we should be through and I should have a couple of really, really good assists, which are the reason why we're through.

And I think

the way that he plays, the way that he links things up, I was really impressed with him last night, despite the finishing.

I'll give him that.

The other thing is, in all of this, allow me to be the kind of person waving the little Spain flag here.

Please do.

Or maybe waving an all-black flag for Diego Simeone.

And that is that this Athletico-Madrid team, beyond the clichés, is really, really terrible away from home, but exceptional at home.

They never lost a knockout game in the Champions League.

Yeah, but also if you just take it in terms of what they've done this season, they got beaten by Athletic Club in the Cup of the Race semi-final first leg about, what is it, about three, four weeks ago.

They got beaten 1-0.

That was the first defeat in 28 games at home.

In La Liga, they've picked up 40 of 42 points at home.

They've been dreadful away from home, but that's one defeat in basically 14 months now.

So although it was Inter who'd won every game this year, you just kind of looked at it and you thought, well, Atletico are actually a good side at home.

And I know people don't talk about him a huge amount, but Antoine Griezmann's a brilliant footballer.

He was coming back from injury.

They are scoring goals.

In fact, if anything, and I was talking to someone at the club literally, I don't know, 40 minutes before kickoff, and he said what I think most people believed as well, at least internally, which was that...

You know, the thing that they're worried about is some silly mistake at the back.

Atletico's problem isn't the Atletico problem of old.

Yeah, they're really defensive, but they don't score goals.

It's that they've been really dreadful defensively and making lots of silly mistakes.

And so them scoring goals maybe wasn't a huge surprise, but I would agree that it didn't feel like they were going to until they were gifted a really stupid goal.

Given who's left in the competition,

there's a certain irony that it feels like Inter

were better this season and yet will not be in the quarterfinals when they reached the final last season.

Something similar to what happened with Napoli, albeit they didn't make it, or albeit they made it to the quarterfinals at least last year.

I was just interested to see as well.

In my mind, Atletico are always making the quarterfinals, and yet this is, I think, only the third time in the last seven years that they've made it that far, which is which is surprising.

I guess that that run where they were in the final twice and then in the semis as well

has played tricks on the mind to a certain extent.

But

I'm just wondering, Sid,

how big a deal this is for Athleti to get

this far again?

Massive, and

it's massive, A, because as you say, it reconnects them with that.

And you look back on that run of getting to finals and semi-finals, I mean,

it's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but you look at them, and they were Real Madrid's greatest allies.

They would happily clear from Real Madrid's paths all the really good teams and they say, and here we are to be beaten by you.

Thanks very much.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it's four years in a row that they got knocked out by Real Madrid.

So they were the sort of the beard trimmer before you would then get the razor that probably sponsors this podcast for the clean shot.

I mean, to be honest, that's not the analogy I had in mind, but yes, that'll do very nicely.

And, you know, it's four in a row.

I think it's two finals, the semi-final and the quarter final against Real Madrid.

And you know that if they meet Miral Madrid in this competition, despite having been the only team to beat Real Madrid in the league, despite having knocked Real Madrid out of the Coppel Rey, somehow you know if they face them in Europe, that will be it.

The other reason it was huge for them is that actually their season's fallen apart in the last few weeks.

So as I said, they've they've been really good at home, but really poor away from home.

And that poor away from home has become absolute disastrous away from home in recent weeks.

So they got knocked out the cop of the array.

They've only won, they'd only won two of their last nine coming into this.

They were conceding really stupid goals.

They've been beaten at Cadiff at the weekend.

Cadiff, who hadn't won in six months, had beaten Athletic Committee 2-0.

So there was this real sense of

This is not just a team that needs this in terms of getting back to feeling like they're a big European team, but in terms of having their season mean anything, because at the moment they're now in a fight to even finish fourth.

They might not get back in next year.

I think they probably will, but there's a chance that they don't get back in next year.

And so it was huge.

And Simeoni had been asked about the fans.

You know, everyone's watched Simeone, and a lot of it is about building up the idea of the fans and kind of seeding protagonism to them and telling them how wonderful they are and say, come on, we can do this and conducting them and stuff.

And in the pre-game press conference, he was asked the classic question, which someone always asks, always, what's your message for the fans?

He said, I can't tell them anything.

they're so annoyed with us i'm not going to ask them for anything i don't deserve to ask them for anything but it's just his way of saying come on lads let's do this it's a much smarter answer isn't it than just you know like we need you that's you know like because then it they go oh we'll show diego i mean i'm like he's been there for so long i just wonder if it it didn't sound like it last night certainly but if there's if it's getting stale because i know that athleti they've obviously got all those traits but they aren't the same like you've alluded to and i wonder if he has tried to evolve them and then sort of goes oh actually i want to evolve them this much but i just can't totally let go of old athleti well no we this we have this kind of thing and it's circular and they i i don't know if this is even correct english but they can't they kind of evolve out into something and then revolve back again and this happens periodically you have periods when you go okay athletico are being a bit more expansive and then there's almost this sense of this isn't quite us and they come back again but you look at the quality of the squad and the type of players they've got and it is them even if you've got a manager who likes the defensive solidity and of course as i say the part of the debate this year has been why have they been so bad defensively and there's been a almost a yearning for for athletico to be able to hold on to a game and win it 1-0 or to be able to win 1-0 with a header from a corner which just kind of isn't really happening and they're actually genuinely good to watch in terms of the sort of simeoni's own position you have these moments and it and that's cyclical as well where yeah there's a little bit of actually you know what it's coming to the end and then it's not and then they're expansive again you think oh they're playing really well so they finished last season brilliantly And they started this season quite well.

And you thought, oh, you know, this is a team that could actually win the league.

The year they did win the league, league, which is, what is it, three years ago now, I think at the start of that season was the season when we all thought, actually, this might be the last of Simeoni.

And they go and win the league.

And they're going to win the league, at least in the first half of the season, playing really quite good football, really quite expansive.

Then in the second half of the season, holding on a lot, but it was very dramatic.

And they were very good to watch.

And so, so I think that the thing with Simeone is I think deep down everybody really wants.

it to end the right way so that it never reaches that point.

Now, there's been moments when it's felt like it might, but it never quite does.

And Simeone said this last night post-game, something along, I can't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of, you know, I've got to thank these fans because I've been here for 12 years and they are still doing this and they're still doing this for me and for the team.

And they still never get tired of us.

Now, of course, there are moments when they do, but actually, broadly speaking, he's true.

And for all the other things that are thrown at Simeone, he is the best manager in their history and possibly any Spanish team's history ever.

Which is quite good when you put it that way.

Chris says, where is the red line with genitalia-based fouls?

Have the PGMOL issued guidelines?

We demand to know.

I mean, Wilson, you smiled, so I'll come to you.

Taram on Savage in Vinny Jones on Gazza style.

I mean, I am surprised VAR didn't go, I think that's a red.

I mean,

I don't know what it just does feel like

not really on.

I thought it would be a red.

And then the two players just seem to find it hilarious afterwards.

They're standing there having a laugh, shoving each other around.

So

I don't know what was going on there.

And there seemed to be some sort of, I mean, I'm extrapolating wildly from the uh

what you could see in the conversation, but it seemed to be as if, well, you squeezed my elbow, so you know, I also had a squeeze.

Um, but I don't think those things are equivalent.

What, elbows and gonads?

Yeah, I think you're probably right.

Yes, yeah, I think

did we not need Mike Dean to tell us what's

that?

That was a point where we actually needed Mike Dean.

You know,

After all these complaints, that was the one time, you know.

Well, they cut to Peter Walton, he's not there.

Peter Walton, it's my night off, sorry.

Bye.

I'm not sullying myself with this conversation.

I would have liked the referee to pick it up.

I need to have seen the amusingly officious language with which he would have never

had to describe it in his match reports.

Also, notice David Classen's hair transplant, which may be the greatest of all the footballer hair transplants.

Amazing.

Well, the thing is, there's a guy that hasn't had hair for quite a long time i mean a decade and then yeah yeah and then just suddenly

well i mean what how would you describe the style it's sort of like a like sort of nicola bertie you know he's sort of gone for the okay yeah that sort of slight side

of john scales slightly john slightly old very some 90s alan party yeah so yeah quite smart yeah he's thought

you know all that time he's just had none and just sort of wanders around thinking if i could what what would i have yeah and he's gone for that.

Yeah, good for him eh.

He also uh yeah

I'm pretty sure he shook his head in a way that that said I'm about to miss just before he does.

You know what?

You know, because you segued from hair into that, I was expecting you to about to say salon selective.

So you shook his head in a way that said, like, you've

trying to show it off, you know, flip it slowly through the air.

While we've got you, Sid, look, you've got three Spanish sides through.

Where Where do you put their...

What are their sort of relative chances?

The draw makes quite a big difference, which is tomorrow.

Yeah, I must admit, that's what I was thinking last night.

I was thinking the draw really defines massively.

Tomorrow morning, I would say UK time, forgive me.

Really defines massively what their chances are.

I mean, on the basic face of it, I think Atletico Madrid, the way they're competing, will be, if they can be even half decent away from home, will be difficult for anyone.

Barcelona, I thought, were pretty good against Napoli, but they've been so erratic this year, and they do have a big hole in the midfield,

despite the fact that they played well the other day and i really do like fedominal lobbeth a lot i feel like bars are in theory the weakest of them but then if you get a strong if you get barcelona's best 11 out there's not a huge amount wrong with it they've not played very well there's no huge amount wrong with it and real madrid is such a strange team because for a lot of this season i've thought they're not all that good but i've always felt like they've got enough and they've got so much talent in the team that they will be too strong so i think if you're going to go for it if who's the one that's going to go the furthest realm but i think the draw will define it a lot yeah it's mad for barcelona to go if they can get their best 11 out it's not actually that bad like talking about barcelona is sort of mad but that's how far they've fallen i guess anyway sid you can go back to bed thanks mate thank you very much cheerio love your stuff uh sid low out in spain so the panel suddenly becomes erudite again as we will start part two with dortman's victory over psv

Hi pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, Dortmund 2, PSV 0.

Archie, you were there.

How was it?

It was a strange game because Dortmund flew out the traps in a way that I've not seen them play this season.

And then after the first half hour, it felt the more the game went on, the more PSV

got more control on the game.

I spoke to their coach, Peter Bosch, after it, and he said that they went man-to-man against Dortmund all over the pitch from around about the half-hour mark.

And at that point, Dortmund, the more they had to think, the worse they looked.

When they were playing in this furious rage to begin with, they...

they looked really good.

And I think part of that is because of something peter bosch did he turn dortmund round to play towards their south stands to play towards the yellow wall in the first half yeah it's not on that is it boo that you know it's the right thing to do but like it's really annoying when the awayside do that the home fans whistled it and then i i i i swear i think it was one of the reasons why why dortmund started so well and and won this game And I asked Bosch about it.

I said, what was your thinking?

It was like, yeah, it was a small small thing.

It didn't help.

So

in a way, they paid the price for that.

The kind of chances they created throughout the game, Eindhoven,

were

from

not from the best shooting positions.

Dortmund managed to stick about eight people in the way every time in that central block.

They had one really good chance through Luke de Jong at the end, but ultimately...

Yeah, it's massive.

I mean, it's an an enormous chance that.

Also, for it to come from just a long goalkeeper kick and allowing it to bounce as well.

And you think even at this Champions League level, that can happen?

What is don't let it bounce in German?

Lassis Niche Sumbordenfeilen.

Is that yelled on Sunday league pitches, on Sontag

League pitches?

I don't think so.

Well, I get lambasted for going long by my teammates.

Right.

To the point that they're like, oh, we all know what's going to happen here.

And I'm like,

how do they say it, though?

There must be some, you know, quick.

Because it's all in when you play football, there's always this sort of way of cutting words down, isn't there?

Yeah.

You know, like, man on, you know, it's got to be guttural.

Or do the Germans not do that?

It's just like a long.

There are a lot of long technical instructions, let me tell you.

Oh, God.

And lots of long discussions.

There are shorter things, but I don't, nothing comes to mind of a quick don't let it bounce.

Is there a cliched thing that they say, you know, like all day?

Alice Targ.

Alice Targ.

Mench.

Archie's ball.

On the subject of get it launched, which I know John is

maybe the main popularizer of the phrase.

I don't know if you listen to the rest of his history, but they're doing a series on the Titanic at the minute.

And in episode two of six on the Titanic, they use the phrase, get it launched for the Titanic.

Wow.

So your influence has spread that.

And they shouldn't have done.

Well, I mean,

that's seriously what the series is about.

I mean, they do seem quite soft on Keenardens and suggest that actually they took more safety measures than most equivalent companies.

They just happen to not put enough blood boats on.

The small matter of.

Oh, well, again, I mean,

I suspect people are better off about it.

This isn't necessary, but apparently they had

more lifeboats than any equivalent ship at the time because they just genuinely thought it could not be sunk because it had 15 bulkheads and they had two separate layers on the hull.

So they thought it couldn't be sunk.

Small flooring.

So the lifeboats are actually not to rescue people on board, but in case they meet another ship in difficulty.

Look, I know the rest is history chaps, I think they do phenomenally well financially, but I don't think we get the same if we just repeat their podcast.

I don't think

that's how it works.

This is now the rest is the rest is history.

If you don't want the answer, go ask the question.

You spoke to Jaden Sancho afterwards, Archie, and clearly, like, from an English perspective, you're watching him and thinking, it's just so nice to see him playing with confidence and beating men.

It looks like in a Man United church, he honestly didn't dribble round one player once.

I can't remember it.

And he just looked so fluent in that first half hour, certainly.

This is the other side to the equation of the Lautaro.

Martinez conundrum.

The only Jaden Sancho I've seen is the one who plays like this, who beats players for fun, looks like he's having such a great time.

And

he was getting back to that place last night where he did something, I think it was in the 13th minute, where

he,

you don't think that Bakayoko is even on his radar.

And yet he does a skill round him that just made the stadium go, whoa.

And I think those are the moments that I associate Jaden Sancho with.

And Edin Terzic has made a big play of saying you need to get him smiling, not thinking.

I think that

he does seem to be in a better place again.

But will he sacrifice

what?

Will he make financial sacrifices in the summer to

potentially get the rhythm to play

at a club like Dortmund?

I'm not sure.

When he's in that kind of form,

and even for the first goal,

for the goal he scores, the way that he actually gets the ball on the right-hand side and has a long way to come, a long way to make up for it.

But

I think John can probably speak about the willingness that he was showing for Dortmund.

Manchester United fans were thinking,

where was this guy?

Yeah,

I was in Manchester over the weekend.

I chatted to a friend of mine who has been involved in the club.

And yeah, Sancho

would not be welcomed back by many people, it would appear.

And that goes across a few spheres.

It just didn't go well.

There's obviously a personality clash there on several types of issues.

And you just wonder how different it is at Dortmund.

How, you know, is it more liberal?

Archie would know more about that.

Is you know, the timekeeping was the big thing that was publicised in a very lengthy piece, I think, in the athletic.

Um, but this is a guy that just doesn't seem to fit in English football, despite being English and hugely talented.

But obviously, Dortmund seems to bring something of him.

And, you know, when you see the goal that he scored, goalkeeper, slightly dodgy, you have to say.

I mean, you know,

again,

I very rarely saw this for anything like this.

And one of the reasons we very rarely saw that is that no Manchester United manager picked him after a while because they just couldn't get anything from him.

And

there's obviously attitudes or behaviours that didn't fit in up in Manchester.

Dortmund is allowed to behave or he behaves better.

We don't know.

I mean, you know, you speak to him, Archie.

He seems a reasonable chap when you're trying to him.

Archie's so disarming.

That's just the way he is.

I think that

Dortmund is a weird place right now where

their whole style of play relies on individual flourishes.

Recognising any discernible style under Edin Terzich

is difficult.

They have not been good throughout this season.

And to be honest, even last night, it looked like a lot of soloists

trying to play at different rhythms.

Well, that's what you'll be, though, wouldn't it?

If you're a talent factory, that's the thing, isn't it?

If you, I mean, you know, you see that with Chelsea in a slightly different manner, but you've got all these players sort of playing for their futures almost.

And

that's it.

Every time I watch Dorby, which is not regularly, it's like, oh, they've got this new talented guy, they've got this new talented guy.

I wonder where they're going to end up.

And, you know, that's it.

Brush a Dormer is a huge club, a massive institution, and yet it's treated like that.

And

so a player like Sancho, previously you'd see him as, right, okay, okay, he's going to put Manchester United.

And then, you know, obviously, you know, Hurland and all that.

And then you, you know, and then you watch it, and you're like, who's the next one along?

And no wonder they're disjointed, is what I'm saying.

I think last week, you know, in sort of classic TV presenter style, I'm trying to appear as knowledgeable.

And, you know, people haven't found me out in this country yet.

And I turn to you and I say, look, Brian are through.

And the thing is, you wouldn't want to play him.

And like in real TV terms, everyone just agrees with everyone else.

Or they just go, no, actually, yeah, you really would want to play him.

It was very funny.

Now, I feel with Dortmund, if you look at who's through, you probably would quite like to draw Dortmund.

But you can tell me I'm wrong again, Archie.

I'm not precious about these things.

I'm glad you, I really enjoyed that moment.

It was very funny.

It was very funny.

But

so, look,

I think Dortmund are the team that you want.

of this of this last eight, given where they're at.

I think that actually, whilst one of the best teams for them to play on paper would be buyer and munich they're the team that they really don't want given the hoodoo that they have over them uh in in recent years the last decade or so

and for this buyer team to

to embarrass them in europe would be

bad but i i don't see much coming from this dortmund team i thought that you look at

the way that PSV opened them up by not having to do all that much.

Sure, Dortmund clubbed together a bit more than they have in the Bundesliga.

It's weird because they've only lost one of their last 13 Bundesliga games, so it looks like good form.

But if you talk to Dortmund fans, they will tell you they're not playing particularly well.

Edin Terzich's future looks up in the air in the summer.

Getting to the Champions League again next season is the stated priority of the club, but they just lack direction.

And

when it comes to

players at the club, John mentions

this talent factory.

It's gone too far in that direction.

And there is just this,

not I would say acceptance, but just comfort in finishing second and

making the Champions League is okay.

And the dynamics are just a bit off.

Wilson, you happy with this eight?

Um, I didn't realize I got to choose.

Uh,

yeah, it's, I mean, I think that's the new format next season.

It's just you choose the quarter-party.

I think it was a pretty drab last 16.

Uh, I think the last last couple of nights have been better.

You know, I think the Atletico intergame, as we said, was pretty good.

I think Arsenal Porter was pretty good.

I mean, the second day last week, but Wednesday last week, I mean, thankfully, Real Madrid were dreadful, which made made at least that game vaguely interesting.

But

it's,

I don't know, I think the Champions League has suffered this season partly because of ongoing economic issues, but I think it's been slightly unfortunate that three of the more interesting clubs, Liverpool, Levacus, and Girona, are not in it.

And the fact that some of the teams who are in it have suffered pretty catastrophic collapses in form.

Napoli, Barcelona, Manchester United, I mean, Newcastle to an extent as well.

So

I don't think we're wrong to have judged the last 16 harshly, but I think there are external factors as well that will not necessarily be continued next season.

One of the problems is it's not diverse enough, is it?

There's three Spanish teams, and the usual three Spanish teams, again,

two English teams, two German teams.

We're very familiar with this PSG again, and you assume PSG will go out as soon as they face anybody who's actually remotely good.

You say, though, anyone who's good,

that's the thing.

It looks like Manchester City.

Well, they might be yeah I was saying you assume that but maybe they maybe they are different maybe you're right yeah I I I don't think that this season I think they're a bit better they seem to have a they have some a bit more

I think that's fair yeah I think there's a huge goal I mean you know Arsenal are above them in the Premier League but it's quite hard to to trust them

I think with Arsenal uh the the tie I want to see is them against Athletico

I j I ju I I just are but if they managed to do it away Arsenal at Athletic would be stunning wouldn't it?

Yeah, it would, but it would be, but I mean, when you see the way that Porto riled them,

and you're talking shitowsary,

you've got Porto.

Yeah, could Athletic get Pepe in on an emergency loan?

Oh, it would kick off.

Yeah.

I mean, it just...

Artessa Simeoni would be right up in the grill, wouldn't it?

It would be amazing.

Oh, come on.

Come on.

Come on.

You've got to warm those balls.

We need this.

We need this.

The Champions League needs some beef, man.

I know coefficient chat may be after referee chat is the least interesting thing in the world.

However, when Archie said that Dortmund desperate to get in the Champions League, one of the ways to help themselves do that is to progress in this season's Champions League and bump up the coefficients.

I suspect for them, that's a slightly academic issue.

But for Villa, I think this could be really interesting, assuming they get through against INAX tonight.

But they might get to a point towards the end of the season where they think, actually, Tottenham are ahead of us in fourth.

We can't get there.

Let's prioritise prioritise winning the Conference League.

And not only would that guarantee the Europa League, but by getting coefficients, yeah, extra coefficient points, it might mean that England can go ahead of Germany or Italy to the top five qualified for next season's Champions League.

Doesn't the coefficient rely on West Ham Freiburg?

Isn't this becomes

it?

No, that's tonight.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, yeah, I mean, because Germany don't have a team in the Conference League because Frankfurt went out to Onion South of the West.

Do you think on the rest is history they're going?

Well, the thing about the coefficient is I met on the weekly and they said

they said if Freiburg beat West Ham

yeah, probably I saw it I on that.

I think I said Kinard, I meant White Saar.

Sorry.

Fine.

No, I have no idea.

Sorry.

I think David Moyes is

being criticised from certain quarters for not holding up the English end.

Like if they if they lose to j to Freiburg, that's a big problem.

This would be catastrophic.

For Tottenham.

So West Ham fans at least will have that to savour.

Dave's noise being Scottish, of course, I'm sure, doesn't care too much about the English coefficient.

Apart from it, it affects West Ham, but you know.

Just on Pepe, there was a brilliant

Daniel found this.

It's from

R.

Gunner's sub-reddit, which I must confess I haven't got to in my own free time.

But it is...

Trossard scoring the goal and Pepe just behind him in a porto shirt.

And from the game, what was it, 14 years ago or ever, Henri in exactly the same position, bending one in in classic Henri style, with Pepe in almost exactly the same pose, looking exactly the same.

He's barely aged.

But that's slightly generous.

He has aged considerably.

But like, it's an amazing photo.

Like these two things.

I presume that is from the game that Arsenal won against Porto all those years ago.

Amazing photo.

Quickly, Archie, while we're in European stuff, Saarbrücken.

This is amazing.

They knocked Bayern out of the Pokale, didn't they?

But

they've knocked another Bundesliga side out and what, in the semifinals?

Yeah, and

this was in the quarterfinals.

And in the round of 16, they knocked out another Bundesliga side.

So it started with...

It started in the first round where they beat Karlsruhe of the second division and they won that in injury time.

Then they beat Bayern, also in injury time.

Eintrech Frankfurt, they won 2-0.

But this game against Brussium-Gladbach,

where

they didn't really have an attack in the entire second half, and yet won it in identical fashion to the way they beat Bayern Munich.

And the winning goal was scored by

a Bradford City flop, Kai Brunke, who

was...

From what I've been reading online,

I've seen a lot of praise for the way that Kaibrunke applied himself at Bradford.

It's just the actual application did not quite fit, and he was written off as not being good enough for League One.

But he's good enough

for the Dritter Liga and

for being a giant killer.

The fact that this game had to be replayed because the first iteration got called off due to the pitch in Zabrucken.

Now, the stadium there

has been renovated in the last few years.

It was meant to cost 16 million euros.

It's ended up costing 48,

and yet the cost of drainage, or getting proper drainage on it, would be 200,000 euros.

That's not happened.

So

they were playing on more of a marsh by the end of the game.

And the ironic thing, I guess, is that in the league, Zabruten are very much mid-table in the third division and are struggling to break down teams.

And yet, when bigger opposition comes to them,

this pitch actually benefits them when it comes to

teams trying to play them off the park and they can't.

So, yeah, it's incredible.

They reached the semifinals actually four years ago when they were a fourth division team.

Now they've got Kaisers Lauten in what is a big regional rivalry in the semifinal.

And Lauten are a second division club.

So there's the prospect that next season in the Europa League, you will have Zarbrutten, Kaisers Lauten,

Fortuna Dusseldorf, but then the other semi-finalist is Chavi Alonso's Baya Levakus.

So there is a prospect somewhere on the horizon that the final game of this season that Levakusen, who are still unbeaten, could face, would be Zar Brutten.

Now, imagine if Zar Brucken were the team to break Jabby Alonso's unbeaten run.

I can't see it, but

it's amazing the way that they've done this.

And particularly if you're a smaller team, you have to qualify generally to get into the first round of the DFB Cup by winning your regional cup the year before.

Zar Bruton had the fourth spot in the third division last year, but you know, I know the pain of seeing this from the team that I follow here, Fortuna Cohen,

and the fact that they are never in the first round of the cup because they never win the regional cup.

So you have to hope that A, it's not that competitive for

your team to get into it.

It's not, I'm not saying getting into the FA Cup first round is always easy, but

if you're a third and

fourth tier side in England, it actually is.

So well done, Zal Brooken.

Yeah, well done, Zal Brooken.

That'll do it for part two.

Part three, we'll begin with Bournemouth's amazing comeback against Luton.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, Bournemouth for Luton 3.

Tombo tweeted me at 8.37 p.m.

going, Do we now have confirmation that Lars and Sid and everyone else was talking nonsense about Irayola at 9.56?

I may have spoken too soon.

Isaac, we all know that it's possible to score too early.

Is there such a thing as going 3-0 up too early?

It's amazing, John, wasn't it?

I mean, you just

sort of, I couldn't believe it.

But at the same time, like, Luton looked totally shocked by the end of that second half.

You worry about Luton, don't you?

Now essentially relying on lawyers

and the Nottingham Forest lawyers.

Obviously, they played Nottingham Forest at the weekend.

Six-pointer, let's call that a 12-pointer.

I mean, the thing is, because there's those points involved for, you know, getting, but it might be even more than that, because, you know, it's exciting, isn't it?

But

first half, cruising, Rob Edwards, resplendent.

Second half, and I tell you what, the goal, Solanke's.

Oh, reminded me of Hal Robson Carno a bit.

in the Euros, you know, a sort of...

Yes, yes.

A turn that turns everyone.

It's better.

It's actually small skillful than that, but yeah.

It's a Van Basten turn, isn't it?

It's the Van Baston turn and just bury yourself through the middle of the defence and score.

Beautiful.

And I tell you what, here's a player.

I think I highlighted him a while ago who had taken a long time to show anything.

Semenyo.

He is a very, very talented player, isn't he?

On his day.

I mean, okay, Luton were dog-tied.

That was clear.

He was allowed a lot of space, but given space, he took them apart in that second half.

And

Bournemouth, they hadn't, I mean, they'd been dreadful, hadn't they, since Christmas?

And, you know,

Luton turned out to be just the opponent they needed to lift them with that win.

When you're looking at the race for the bottom, I suppose it is.

Look at the form of Luton and nothing Forest.

It is desperate.

I think Forest have only beaten one team this year, and that is West Ham.

Luton did essentially what they did against Sheffield United a few weeks ago when I was at the game, which is they're in the position where it's in their hands now.

And that's at the point where they don't seem to be able to get to the point where they're in control of the situation.

They're very good at chasing it, but are they good at getting back over the line that they need to be?

As I say, I do think it's going to come down to the lawyers.

And the thing is, both them and Forrest are playing so badly, it's possible that the only points collected or lost, apart from this weekend when they play each other, will be in the law courts.

Yes, and for Luton,

they can't be so good at FFP that they get given points.

That's not a thing.

It might be a new thing.

Let's put it to the Premier League vote.

I mean, there's no better thing for a fan, is there than be 3-0 down at halftime and win.

I mean, I just can't think, like, because

you're sitting there at halftime, there were real booze at the vitality.

Did anyone go to the pub?

That's the question.

Yeah, almost, was anyone?

Almost.

Yeah, there's got to be a couple in the pub.

I was at the last Bournemouth home win

because it was against Fulham on boxing day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I can tell you that it's a long walk to the pub from the stadium.

Yes, it is.

It is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you're in that middle of that park, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Ike, you turn up at this.

I don't have a lovely view of the Bournemouth Stadium because it wasn't a pleasant experience, but you turn up at this corrugated shed to

experience the game.

Just on loot and

it feels like they're playing musical chairs, except they never turn the mute, like they think that the music's always going on.

I just the lack of control,

and

even within this, I Ross Barkley's charts at 3-3.

Yeah, oh no, you're right.

You turn into Derek Ray, then.

Well, yeah, I spent enough time with him.

That's probably why.

So, I've got a theory about Bournemouth.

i i think i think bournemouth have been exactly the same all season and we talk about changes in their form actually if you look at if you look at their season they struggled to get results first half of the first half of the season then got loads of good results in the second half of the first half of season first half of second half of the season they've struggled to get results and now it's been a bit of a tournament i think their form is exactly consistent but the fixedness is such they have all their hard games first and then all their easy games and I think they're actually one of the most consistent teams in the league and I think they're going to end up coming to be mid-table as a result.

Yeah, I think so.

And also on picking up Archie's point, if he did have, I know he often, you know, it's an often asked question, who would win a fight between Premier League managers?

Who would win a game of musical chairs between Premier League managers?

It's funny because

normally, like, whenever the question is, which Premier League manager would, dot, dot, dot, the answer is always Sean Dice.

But actually, I don't know if Sean Dice would win a game, you know.

And Sean Dice, a man who stands up all the way through all games.

Yeah, that's true.

But he's played a lot.

So I reckon reckon his knees and ankles aren't.

I think you want someone who's never played the game,

I would say, because they will be less, you know, physically they sort of have deteriorated less.

Max, this is the most serious you've looked throughout the whole pod.

I think suddenly we're on something that really genuinely matters, Archie.

I'm trying to think who we're talking of here.

Who's the most

Rob Edwards?

What did he?

He played a bit for him.

Rob Edwards played for Wales.

He was a pretty hardy player, wasn't he?

Played for Wolf.

Yeah, he's a good player.

Yeah, that's right.

Wasn't that Dave Edwards?

Emily,

I'm sure.

Hang on, have I got the wrong?

Edwards is a good player.

Dave Edwards.

It's true, but Dave Edwards is the Wolves.

At no point am I suggesting how good Dave Edwards would be at musical chairs.

Hang on, let's see.

I mean,

what is the footballing career of Rob Edwards?

He did play for Wolves and Q.

There we are.

And Wales.

And you doubted me.

Oh, yeah.

No, I do.

Well, I mean,

I was playing

which Edwards was better for Wolves and Wales?

Was it Dave Edwards or Rob Edwards?

Dave Edwards was a good player, actually, wasn't he?

He was a good player.

Do you think Guadiola would be kind of just cynically just sort of nudging the chairs to get him to advantageous?

He'd be so frenetic, wouldn't he?

He would be incredibly...

He would probably win.

Well, Iraola would be phonetic.

Do you think Pep would go to Iraola before, you know, as the music was playing going, you're so, so good.

And then just squeeze into his chair when he wasn't looking.

Anyway, my apologies to Rob Edwards.

Tom Lockyer was there.

Obviously, in the reverse fix in December, it was when he collapsed on the pitch, had a cardiac arrest.

He was reunited with the paramedics who saved his life.

The Bournemouth fans chipped in to help pay for some of the loot and travel.

The Bournemouth program was a picture of Tom Lockyer.

Actually, genuine football family stuff that is really it was it's the friendliest game I've ever seen.

You know, it's a

friendliest game you've ever seen just erupted into an all-time classic.

So, you know,

great advert for our league.

Yes.

He comes across as such a great bloke and so articulate.

And I think he was on with Mark Chapman on 5 Live yesterday.

And yeah, just a genuinely like,

he seems so down to earth and to be dealing with this extraordinary event.

And, you know, who knows what the future lies to him as a footballer.

But he comes across brilliantly.

And so, you know, we take the piss out of the football family, but it felt actually quite real, I think, at the vitality yesterday.

You've mentioned Luton Forest, such a massive game.

Elsewhere in the Premier League this weekend, Burnley-Brentford.

Brentford's still not totally safe.

There's a bit of race for fourth place.

There's Villa go to West Ham and Spurs go to Fulham.

You can do a Fulham minute if you want, Archie.

Ticket prices remain a shambles.

We are the epitome of a cup team.

It's just we happen to play a league season as well.

I think that's the best way of describing Fulham this year that it feels like anything can happen.

I've listened to Barry try to

sum up what Fulham are like, and I agree with him for the most part.

He's not sure.

I'm not sure.

I've been really impressed with Calvin Bassey and the way that he's been playing, albeit he cost us the first goal away at Wolves.

The form of Rodrigo Mooney is coming from nowhere.

Yeah, I like him a lot.

Yeah, he's just bashing into

opposing central defenders.

He seems to have just calibrated himself correctly now.

And at the time when Armando Breuer was brought in on loan from Chelsea, and I think Fulham have to pay 4 million if he doesn't start the next game.

So

really.

It's true, yeah.

So.

How early can you take someone off?

Like a minute into a game?

I hadn't thought of it like this.

i'm so

if anyone at fulham's got any nouse they'll be writing this down start him and then bring him off so so what what what were the what were the terms of the deal that's led to that he had to he has to play a certain amount or fulham have to pay a penalty fee

oh okay so they'd have to but he has to play every game of the season to hit that no he just he hasn't played that much and it we're already hitting the penalty amount so he's not started he's not started a game yet because the problem the the problem is that he...

I mean, listen, he's a professional footballer.

He's made it referral.

He's not actually that good.

That's his problem, isn't it?

Muniz is...

I've always thought

there's something there with Armando Project.

I've seen when I think, oh, maybe he could lead Chelsea's line, but you're right.

Muniz seems to just have it.

Like, he has whatever that is.

You would have said the same about Muniz six months ago.

No, no, of course not.

He wasn't good enough for Middlesbrough in the championship.

Like three months ago, and it was like, well,

is he up to it?

And now it's like, well, of course, it's mad.

The thing with Project is one of those players that he is a Chelsea product.

Obviously, he's one of their pure profit things.

You know, we have to think about that these days.

But he does look like a Todd Bowley signing that they got from Cadiz and decided that, you know, he could make something of this.

And it's just not happened for him.

And do you know what?

And this is no disgrace these days.

I reckon he drops into the championship.

He'd probably rack in 30 goals.

And that is a good standard.

I'm not doing him down, it's just that the Premier League is a high, high standard now.

Our league, he has been, he has been one of the Fulham references and silent witness this season.

I don't know if you've noticed that, but one of the scriptwriters is a Fulham fan, so there's an Albanian character called Brozia, and there's also,

I can't remember what he was, he was an expert in something they brought in called Harrison Kearney.

Interesting.

Oh, wow,

a mixture of the double pivot.

Interesting.

Just to say, Max,

I think that Tottenham will probably win.

That's previewing the game there.

I enjoyed it.

FA quarterfinals.

Wolves, Coventry, Man City, Newcastle, Chelsea, Leicester, and Manchester United, Liverpool, which is the big one.

Do you give United any hope, John?

No.

Okay, no one.

We will obviously discuss it probably in slightly more detail on Monday.

Well, yeah, United are the only team to stop Liverpool scoring this season.

And people sort of seem to go, oh, well, yeah, United have shown they can stop at once.

Liverpool at that 34-shot game.

But United score concede over 20 shots in every game, don't they?

Like, it's you know, you know, they used to have that stat.

I mean, we're back to Sean Dice.

We're always back to Sean Dice.

You know, a Burnley and Everton team block shots like no other.

You know, you know, so how Chelsea have now transferred in Brentford's set piece coach?

Can Manchester United, now we do this, buy the Sean Dice blockage coach?

Is it Eve Wone?

Is it Steve Stone?

You know, the teachers a place like when the ball's there, chuck yourself, every part of your body in front of it.

The Schmeichel Starfish, whatever you want to do, you know, just get yourself in front of the ball.

The Sean Dye blockage coach sounds like something you'd take before going on a holiday to the tropics.

That's when he's having a charner doll.

That's true.

It sounds like a really bad self-help podcast.

I'm not sure what's the better band name there.

The Sean Dysche Blockish Coach or the Schmeichel Starfish.

That was brilliant.

On Sean Deish and Musical Chairs, he did come on Soccer M during the glory years.

We didn't play Musical Chairs, but did play Countdown with Sean Dysch and Serge from Kasabian, which is not something that done every day.

Not as fun as playing.

He loves Kasabian.

Yeah, he does.

I loves Kasabian.

Very quickly, Wilson, you tweeted

at the weekend, early officiating drama at the Emirates, where Andy Townsend is denied dinner for not having a food voucher.

His pleas that his producer, who has the vouchers, is out doing an interview on the pitch, fall on deaf ears.

Rules of rules and consistency has trumped common sense.

Did Andy Townsend get fed?

I don't know, but what I do know is that after I got my own dinner,

I went and the press officers,

he was a journalist for years, so we all know him quite well.

And I saw him and said, Yeah, you might want to go and saw Andy Townsend now, but he's starving on the carpet over there.

And so he did wander over.

So hopefully it was all resolved.

What I will say is Andy Townsend could could not have been more polite.

Oh, he's a great guy.

He's a really lovely guy.

You can see the whole way through, like, he was avoiding saying the words.

Like, I am Andy Tanzan, I have won 60-odd caps for Ireland or whatever it is.

You know, he was explaining the situation very calmly.

And the poor lass was sort of like, Oh, I just, I'm just not allowed.

I'm sorry.

So, everybody came out a bit well.

Oh, well, that's great to hear.

And he got fed.

But Andy Tanzan also came out of this hungry.

I assume he got fed eventually.

He's probably okay.

All right, that'll do for today.

Thanks for your company.

Thanks, John.

Cheers, Max.

Thank you, Archie.

Thank you.

Thanks, Wilson.

Cheers.

Thank you.

Before we go, can I recommend the Guardian's new podcast Black Box?

Thursday's episode out now looks at how AI is going to transform our lives in ways that will be extraordinarily positive.

For example, imagine if there was a machine that could see cancer years before a human can.

And it just so happens that Lee, a man at the center of this episode, is a huge Football Weekly fan.

So hello to Lee, who is listening now.

Thanks for listening to our pod.

Currently, it has no AI, but you know, know, it is only a matter of time before AI Barry exists.

Black box available wherever you get your podcast, but weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Max Sarnerson.

We'll be back on Monday.

This is The Guardian.