An episode from Women’s Football Weekly: WSL title race blown open as City beat Chelsea

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Hi, PodFans.

Max here, live from Sydney Airport, Terminal 3.

Here is an episode of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly with the brilliant Faker Others and Susie Rack, who's also brilliant, and Chris Parros is too, and Emerson is great

to talk about Manchester City's win over Chelsea on Friday night, which is an absolute huge result in the title race.

Arsenal's dominant victory over Manchester United in front of a record crowd at the Emirates.

Listen to it now and then go and subscribe to it wherever you subscribe to this one.

Hello, I'm Faker Others and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Twists and turns and the title race is back on.

Manchester City's win over Chelsea has turned the tables again with the sides locked on 34 points with eight games to play, Arsenal arrests their mini-slump and look comfortable in the final Champions League place.

While Bristol City are now five points adrift after conceding five at Leicester, and all aboard, the Lioness's line.

We'll preview the international break as Serena Viegman's side received transport recognition.

We'll discuss all of that, plus, we'll take your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

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What a panel we have today.

Susie Rack, let's talk Lino in a second, but tell me about the hot tub first and foremost.

How enjoyable was your week off?

So good and so great when the husband and son got out and I was just lying there on my own in the bubbles pretending that the world didn't exist.

Brilliant.

Oh, that sounds blissful.

I love that.

And now let's talk Lino.

Pops of orange for my hatters, Lino.

You are just adorable.

Yeah, following up on my promise to do the cheap panini like drawing of the little oak stand and happy Harry as well.

Well, you have a happy hatter on your hands as a result of that.

So thank you.

Emma Sanders, did you enjoy your weekend away in London?

Oh my god, I'm sick to death of the place.

I can't wait to get back home.

Yeah, no, I'm actually, look, I did manage to come home and I've spent the last two days with the family.

So I'm currently recording the podcast next to the dog.

So I'm going back to my actual house as in Batten Manchester today.

So I am very excited to get into my own bed, I'm not going to lie.

For one night.

For one night only.

Yeah.

It never lasts long, does it?

Oh, wonderful Chris Powros.

Not a good weekend to be a Spurs fan across the board, but you've had a wonderful week in other areas.

Congratulations on 10 years of the Proud Lily Whites.

That is some achievement.

Thank you, yeah.

We had an incredible week up until the games, frankly.

And, you know, we have achieved amazing things over these last 10 years.

But I did say to the others, we probably shouldn't dedicate any games to the Proud Lily Whites ever again.

Oh, my God.

Have you jinxed it?

That's what you've done.

You've totally jinxed it.

Listen, we will discuss a bit more on LGBT Plus History Month as well later in the pod.

But let's begin with that top of the the table clash at King's Meadow on Friday night that lit up the title race.

It finished Chelsea 0.

Manchester City won just when we'd all thought that Chelsea were running away with it.

Was that one of our predictions, by the way?

I think it was.

Us and our terrible predictions on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Manchester City's fantastic season secured a scalp of the highest caliber.

Bunny Shaw's clinical 14th minute finish drew City level on points with Chelsea at the top of the WSL table, only second on goals scored.

In fact, it could not be tighter.

And Emma Hayes's side had almost grabbed an equaliser in stoppage time as well.

But citykeeper Kiara Keating made sure her side came away with all three points and ended Chelsea's 22-game unbeaten home record in the process.

You were there, Emma, hating every minute of it because you hate London, but what a contest and what a title race we have on our hands.

Yeah, look, I I wasn't surprised by the result because I think, you know, I think I've said it on this podcast before that, in my opinion, Manchester City have played the best football this season.

But I do believe, and I do still just believe, that Chelsea can go on and win the title.

I just think they have a know-how in terms of winning the league.

But that result has really thrown things up in the air, hasn't it?

And I thought City deserved the win.

I thought there was some brilliant individual performances.

You mentioned Kiara Keating there.

obviously making some really, really important saves and stoppage time.

But I thought overall her game, she was really, really good.

And she was great at Arsenal as well the week before.

Jess Park, in particular, in midfield, I thought she was fantastic.

She obviously got the assist for Bunny Shaw's goal as well.

And I also thought Bunny was low-key, excellent as well.

I think she's put in so many good performances where you know she'll bang in two or three goals, and they'll be the ones that sort of have the headlines this season in terms of her outstanding performances.

But I thought what she did so well on the weekend was she would always bring two players towards her.

And I think that's is what opened up the space in behind for City to play into.

So I thought they were really impressive, particularly in the first half.

I know Gareth Taylor wasn't very happy with them in the second half.

And I do think they sort of fell off a little bit and weren't as ruthless as they were in the first half.

But they almost psychologically got the game done in that first half, if you know what I mean.

I think Chelsea sort of were maybe a little bit taken aback by it.

And then they were kind of playing catch-up a little bit in the second half.

And City just had enough about them to be able to hold out.

So really, really good result and really exciting title race.

So, I just can't wait for the rest of the season now because every week it's just going to be looking at City and Chelsea in particular, but obviously, Arsenal, which I'm sure we'll come on to, are still in there as well.

So, you're just looking at those games every week, wondering if any teams can take some points off them.

I know, I feel like we've got some more twists and turns to come, that's for sure.

I love the explanation of low-key excellence as well.

I quite like that.

How impressed were you, Susie, with Manchester City and their game plan, particularly the way they were able to nullify Lauren James.

Yeah, it was super effective.

I think the battle in this game was like won and lost in the midfield, and the goal sort of epitomised that when Jess Park basically just robbed Aaron Cuffbert, you know, went on that little drive.

I don't know, something for me is not clicking about the Chelsea midfield at the moment.

And with the talent that is in there, you know, with James in the 10, with Lupoles, Cuffbert, you've got Kirby and Wright and not that wide.

Like, I feel like more should be coming from them, but something isn't quite right.

And I don't know if that's an over-reliance on James to do something special or, yeah, like, it just doesn't seem completely coherent.

Do you think that's maybe because it's not being linked?

You know, we talk about the spine of teams a lot of the time, and you think of the absence of Sam Kerr and then the absence of Millie Bright.

The midfield is just not being linked by those two pivotal players, maybe.

Potentially, potentially.

I mean,

just for the quality they've got across the squad, do you think they should be able to cope with that?

You know, Natalie Bourne has sorted in pretty well.

Jess Carter is really experienced now.

Obviously, Ramirez is pretty new to the fold, but did well midweek.

Just feel like I expect a little bit more from it.

But that said, I think City are benefiting from a pretty much unchanged team on last year by the introduction of Joe Raud in the summer, who is obviously now injured.

So it's

like a really, really settled side.

They've had very few injuries.

Their connections are really strong and they're benefiting from that and the like lack of games with champions league football and stuff so in a sense the momentum is with them i agree with emma that like you can never write off chelsea and their sort of winning mentality and just not yeah the knowledge of how to win but a city just look a little bit machine-like at the moment

and it's not always the necessarily the prettiest football to watch or the most interesting in in a way that you know sometimes pep guardiola city teams are just a little bit like mechanical almost, like they're just a little bit relentless.

I sort of feel that a little bit about this city side.

Like, they get the job done very efficiently.

They play some good football, but it's sort of very to script.

But that works.

It's getting results, annoyingly, for an Arsenal fan.

But

at least they blew the title race open.

I know, for a neutral, it makes it really exciting, doesn't it?

But Chelsea fans must be a little bit worried.

But that's now eight wins in a row for City in the League, Chris.

Where do you stand on who you're backing to win the title bearing in mind you know what the prediction ratio is on this pod ratio that's not the word I mean is it

we know what you mean we know what you mean we're crap at making predictions that's what I'm trying to say

despite all of the facts that have just been laid out in front of me I do think there's something about the fact that, and this is, I know this is an obvious point, that Emma Hayes has said she's leaving.

And I feel the same way about that as I do about Jurgen Klopp saying he's leaving which is just that the team in the end is going to rally and find a way to win to make sure that that sort of legacy is cemented for emma hayes for jurgen klop but having said that watching the game um on friday night i did think in the situation they found themselves in they usually have sam kerr to pop up and do something And obviously there's no Sam Kerr to pop up and do something.

And you made the point about sort of the spine there.

I do think, you you know, being without Millie Bright and Sam Kerr could have sort of almost a catastrophic impact.

So I don't know, but I go with gut and emotion a lot of the time.

So I still think they might be able to might be able to do it.

But as Susie just said, they did really struggle in that midfield battle.

And it felt like it was the main reason they couldn't control the game because they couldn't control that press, especially Jess Park, which, you know, as we said, we got the goal.

One thing about Jess Park, I cannot look at her now without remembering TikTok I saw, which was all of the team saying one of those ones where it's like, who on the team would you not allow to date your son or daughter?

Every single one of them said Jess Park.

So I can't watch it without thinking, what on earth did she do

all week long for them to say that?

Oh, my goodness.

I've not seen that.

We need to get to the bottom of that.

I love it.

One of the things that I think is interesting in terms of Chelsea and Title Race is that this is the first time since 2016 that Chelsea have lost to both Arsenal and City in league season and that season Man City went on to win the league so like if you're following like patterns there's a sort of you know a sort of pattern to that but yeah two

big defeats that they don't usually suffer yeah just a quick one as well is that you know when Chris was talking there about Millie Bright She is kind of expected to return apparently according to Emma Hayes in the next couple of weeks so it'll be interesting to see what boost that gives Chelsea as as well.

Yeah, it's going to be huge, isn't it?

And

Arsenal kept themselves in the mix.

Another record-breaking sellout of the Emirates on Saturday afternoon.

Arsenal banishing their recent woes, thank goodness, Susie, with a convincing 3-1 win over Manchester United.

An own goal from Jaysa after just 10 minutes was followed by a Chloe Lacasse header and a Kim Little penalty, which put the Gunners in a commanding position at half-time in what ended Arsenal 3.

Manchester United won because they mustered a late consolation through Lucia Garcia in stoppage time.

But in truth, they were absolutely blown away in this game.

Emma, busy weekend for you, but you two Manchester teams, the blue side won, the red side lost.

Yeah, it wasn't a great afternoon at all for Manchester United.

Obviously, a great occasion for women's football in general with the crowd at the Emirates, a new record sold-out attendance.

We don't know the actual attendance because Arsenal always do tickets sold, which caused a lot of editors a bit of a headache on the weekend, put it that way.

But no, it was great either way but yeah manchester united definitely i thought they were really disappointing um i'm quite concerned about them actually this season because i think they're starting to regress now i think we were at a point a few weeks ago where i just kind of hadn't really seen any progression whereas now i part of me thinks they're almost going backwards which is even more concerning um particularly you know given their recruitment in the summer so i do i do worry that that mark mark skin is under a little bit of pressure now well i say a little bit he's under a lot of pressure now But yeah, I thought Arsenal were in that first half were just, you know, we speak about City being ruthless against Chelsea, and I thought Arsenal were totally ruthless against Manchester United.

That wasn't Arsenal's best performance at all, really.

That's not to say they played badly.

I thought they played very well, but they didn't really have to do too much because I thought Manchester United defensively were all over the shop.

I thought they were really, really poor.

And Arsenal just took advantage of it.

And yeah, three goals by half-time.

United never ever looked like coming back into it.

Arsenal should have won the game sort of 6-1, really.

And I think that's the only disappointing thing from their point of view is that they obviously could have really put them to the sword.

So, yeah, a great afternoon for Arsenal on the whole.

A terrible one for Manchester United.

Yeah, we'll talk Mark Skinner in a second, but that's more like it from your team, Susie.

Just the response needed.

Yeah, but I feel like this is sort of typical of Arsenal this season.

I I find it easy to get up for the, you know, the really big games.

You know, even the city defeat in the cup, it was a pretty like even match.

They dominated that second half, I would say.

So they're not having trouble getting up for games against the big four, but they are struggling against teams outside the big four to, I don't know, to stay switched on, to like struggling against teams that...

go into a low block i think is the biggest issue so obviously you know dropping the points to spurs and to west ham like they're they're what have ended Arsenal season, not the games against the bigger teams at the top.

So, yeah, I thought this was more about United being pretty anonymous than it was Arsenal being dominant.

And I also thought the benches were hugely influential as well.

I mean, the Man United substitutions, well, I mean, firstly, Gemma Evans starting the game.

I just felt very, very sorry for her.

This is such a big game to come in to and start.

She's not really been eased in to life at Man United.

I think we made it the point point here a few times that Mark Skinner's sort of rotation or lack thereof has been routinely criticised, particularly last season.

And you can't be throwing in a player like Gemma Evans against Beth Mead.

Like, it's just too big a game to do that in and quite cruel.

And obviously, she came off at half-time.

But when

your sort of default is to bring on Rachel Williams, who don't get me wrong, has got a very, very good record off the bench for Man United.

And that's sort of your only only real outlet i know they bought mallard late on and stuff too but there's not a huge amount there they need a deeper bench i mean how much you blame skinner how much you blame investment how much is it a bit of both probably a bit of both but yeah if i'm mark i'm what like getting increasingly worried about the results sort of not coming and the performances

dipping because you know previously this would have been a game that'd be really tight and it really wasn't how worried should United fans be, Chris?

I mean, they didn't manage a shot on target until the 71st minute and were largely outplayed throughout, as Susie just said.

But a couple of questions sent in to us with a similar theme from our Guardian Women's Football Weekly crew.

Couda says, has Mark Skinner taking the current team as far as he can?

Should he be sacked and finish the season with an interim?

And Lot says, Is Mark Skinner out of his depth at Manchester United?

United have spent more than any other WSL club and yet have only declined since last season, and the players look lost on the pitch.

To me, it feels like there's something going on in the dressing room.

So it just feels like there's a disconnect between the manager and his players.

I don't know what it is, but it's probably time for them to part ways at some point.

Probably wouldn't do it now because I'm not sure it's going to make a huge amount of difference.

So if I were them making those decisions, I'd be going on a proper search to figure out who I want to make Manchester United whatever the force they want it to be and have them ready for the summer.

Because I'm not entirely sure that disrupting everything now is going to be the right thing to do.

Just as an aside, I just want to say the things you love to hear from Susie Rack that Spurs have curtailed Arsenal season.

Sorry, I just couldn't let that go, Susie.

Got to give you something, right?

Something to be happy about this weekend.

Thanks, mate.

Thanks.

She was off for that, so we couldn't even hammer her for it.

I know.

Well, that's what I mean.

So, yeah, no, I do think from Manchester United's perspective, the time for Mark Skinner has probably run its course, but I'm not sure I would replace replace him now.

The pool for managers in the women's game is like for like top quality managers is so, so small.

Like outside Serena Viegman and Emma Hayes, like you're looking at managers that haven't

really been tested long term anywhere, that haven't won a huge amount anywhere.

It's not a great pool if you're wanting an elite level manager, like you get in the men's.

So I always think mid-season sackings is a big risk in women's football because

you're basically having to go to the end of the season with an interim unless you've already got someone lined up.

Because there's not a huge number of people out there that are able to step in.

So you might as well get to the end of the season, see where you're at, reassess.

You know, who knows?

They may have an incredible resurgence towards the end of the campaign, whether that's enough to win fans back, to heal any issues in the dressing room, or whatever it may be, and to justify investment from the new ownership as structure as well is a big, big ask, but it's not impossible.

But yeah, I just, I'm so against mid-season sackings in the Women's Super League just because the pool is so, so, so small of who you get in.

Also, what are they going to achieve?

Yeah.

Because it's not like they're suddenly going to have an interim manager and win the league.

No.

So, you know, you'll end up with the same position and have made more disruption.

It does look like that Final Champions League spot is out of their reach now, if you're looking at it mathematically as well.

They're seven points behind, so maybe it is just a case of trying to consolidate that fourth spot and looking ahead to next season already.

Although, the most optimistic of fans will say that Arsenal can get chased down, but you just never know, do you?

From the top to the bottom of the table, just the seven goals at King Power Stadium as Leicester turned on the style in the second half to beat Bristol City 5-2.

They were locked at 2-all, though, when Amelie Thestrup drew the visitors' level just after the break, but Leicester's dominance came to the fore in the end.

Over 72% possession they had and 30 shots to Bristol 6, which kind of tells the tale, doesn't it?

Willie Kirk's side worthy of the three points in the end, Emma, I think?

Yeah, I think so.

And, you know, I've started to get a little bit concerned about Leicester, actually, over the last kind of two months or so.

Obviously, they had a fantastic start.

We always knew it was going to level out at some point because they had a good run-in at the start as well.

They had games where, look, they weren't expected to win, but games that were winnable and they did.

So obviously they've kind of gone from this high to then this low where they were on a run where their form wasn't particularly great.

So, but I still think they are where they should be.

And I think Willie Kirk's done a good job this season.

That was obviously a good win for them.

Last season, that would have been far tighter than it was, but we have seen them progress.

And I do think that they've evolved.

And they showed that really, because, you know, they were expected to beat Bristol City and they did do comfortably in terms of the scoreline in the end.

And obviously, as you say there, judging by the stats, it shows it really.

But I think they've made some good signings actually over the last year.

I hope I'm going to pronounce her name right, but Yuka Mamika, I think, has been fantastic, one of the Japanese players that came in in January.

And I remember speaking to Willie Kirk about sort of his scouting for those players.

And he said that Mamika was almost someone that...

came by just because they were looking at the other Japanese player, which I thought was quite funny, really.

So they've almost signed two absolute gems there, and I think she's been player of the match for the last two, three games for them.

So she was on the score sheet again.

So yeah, a really, really good result for Leicester.

And Bristol City, I think, will start to get a little bit concerned now because those are the types of games that if they want to avoid the relegation, they really need to start getting points from.

Bristol City now five points adrift at the bottom of the table, Chris.

Another pivotal game following the international break.

To be fair, they're all pivotal for Bristol at this stage, to be fair.

But they face second bottom Brighton and they're running out of time to close the gap aren't they?

Yeah and I'm not convinced they're going to manage it to be honest and I don't I mean there's a gap but it's also you can sort of see a gap in quality as well.

I know it's a young team so you know when are we going to start sort of seeing the same sort of things that we see in the Premier League with teams sort of bouncing straight back but I don't think they're going to escape it this year.

But then again, like you say, crap prediction.

So who knows?

They've got a vicious run as well after that Brighton game.

They've got Man United, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, and then the last game of the season is Everton.

I mean, it's like an impossible task.

I want it to happen more than anything.

I love what they're doing.

I love how exciting it is to watch them.

Love Lauren Smith.

Love the way she talks about the team and their performances and is so honest.

And like, they're doing something really special there.

This level is just a bit too high for them at the moment, but like, I just really want them to get a decent bit of investment and like to really give her like a chance to do something special with this team in the championship next year because I think that's inevitable.

Like, on the basis of that run, that they're gonna go down.

Isn't one of the interesting things about them is that they have such great gaps.

And so, wouldn't it be lovely if actually you didn't need to have investments?

You could compete on the fact that you're running a really good business where you've got thousands of people coming locally to watch your team.

But, I mean, I know that's you know, I know I'm being naive.

Not at all, like, but also that investment, right?

Like, that can be from those gate receipts.

It doesn't have to be necessarily external or like straight from the top down it could be basically I think they need I also love what they do with youth recruitment and bringing young players through and you don't want to undermine that either right but you need a little just a little bit of experience to put in at key points of the team to help bring those players and develop them through so that's the thing for me is like enough support that they're able to sort of do that I still think they're in a much better position than they were just a few years ago when Tanya Oxtoby was there.

What was going on behind the scenes was incredibly frustrating so at least they're building positively going forward uh by the way i should have mentioned this when we were talking leicester specifically but big shout out to 16 year old denny draper who scored leicester's fifth goal first professional goal for her as well what a moment and what a name as well denny draper i love it that's got that's got billboard written all over it hasn't it her parents were mad men fans has to be

yes

absolutely uh that's it for part one in part two we'll round up the rest of the weekend's WSL results and look ahead to the upcoming international break.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

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By the way, guys, just as an FYI, the last five minutes of the pod, I sounded a little bit different.

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Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Let's take you through the rest of the weekend's WSL results to Brisbane Road, where Jordan Knobbs scored the winner in a 2-1 victory for the visitors.

It finished Tottenham 1, Aston Villa 2.

Superb strike it was as well.

Just her second goal of the season, which is quite something.

But with Rachel Daly absent through the three-game suspension, they needed someone to step up.

And she and Adriana Leon both did, Emma.

Yeah, and the celebration, wasn't that a Thierry Henry celebration at the corner flag as well by Jordan Knobbs?

Great stuff there.

I know Susie was enjoying that.

Yeah, no, I think it was a really big result for Aston Villa because, you know, when we're talking about, you know, Bristol City needing those results against the likes of Leicester and teams kind of around them in the table, Aston Villa, if they want to really finish the season strongly, then teams like sort of Tottenham, and Liverpool that are obviously above them in the table, they would have been looking at those teams as thinking, right, can we get three points and really sort of make quite a big jump in the table?

And

I think they're only sort of, I think it's maybe five or six points off of Liverpool now.

And you think actually their start of the season, they've actually done all right to be where they are and kind of two, three results change the picture of where they look in the table.

So yeah, good result for Villa.

And especially when you obviously add in that context for the fact that obviously Daly was suspended.

And I know Ken Zadali was on limited minutes because she was a doubt for the game.

Ebony Salmon was on the bench and she was ill.

She didn't end up coming on.

So they didn't really have many options in terms of coming off the bench and being able to change the game.

So they kind of had to find something within themselves from the team that was on the pitch at the time.

And obviously, Jordan Obvs did that with that brilliant goal from just outside the box.

So yeah, a good result for Villa.

Tottenham, I think, will be disappointed because, again, they've obviously shown some progression under Robert and Villihan this season, but they need to be at least not losing those games.

I think, you know, we talk about progression and the fact that there's obviously got to be some consistency and there will be results like that.

But yeah, I think they'll be disappointed that they weren't able to get something at home against the Villa side who have obviously struggled this season.

Yeah, they're six points behind Liverpool.

It's now five wins in nine WSL games for Carla Ward's side.

A really impressive recovery, actually, after that nightmare start to the season.

But as emma said there chris have you got any concerns about spurs's recent slump three defeats in four now and they they really just can't keep a clean sheet at home it's just one in their last 11 at brisbane road which is quite alarming yeah but and i also think though that you know it's that's a very spurs way of playing like you know preceding goals but scoring more but i don't think we've worked out how to play beth england and martha thomas together So I think since Beth's been back, and obviously, you know, you have to play her, but equally, Martha started really well but we haven't figured out how to play them together they were both substituted which I was surprised about because I think if you're if you're trailing a game actually you want one of them still to be on the pitch now Jess Naz has been incredibly like has had an incredible impact when she's come on so I'd always say bring Jess Naz on but I wouldn't have necessarily taken them both off I also think doing something really quite basic like leaving Jordan Knobs unmarked at the edge of the box from a corner is a bit basic because you know she she can hit the ball as soon as it went out to her we all had our heads in our hands before she even struck it i mean she hit it beautifully don't get me wrong but that shouldn't have been the case there the first goal i have to say we didn't even know it had gone in and the villa fans was like the biggest delayed reaction of a goal celebration i think i've probably ever seen because of where the goalkeeper was we just assumed it had gone wide because it somehow just went underneath her i saw a report saying she was beaten at her near post.

She wasn't beaten at her near post.

She literally just totally misjudged her dive.

And so that was a bit disappointing.

And it was a really good header from Amy James Turner.

You know, she took that really well.

And I saw Anne Harrod James was sat behind us, which must be weird for her watching.

She hasn't obviously gone off to Seattle yet.

Obviously, proud of her wife, but wanting to be out there, particularly when you're losing a game.

So, I mean, I'm not unduly worried.

I do also think that we've got a lot.

We had a, we made a lot of new signings in January.

So you do need time for the team to kind of find its feet.

And as I say, find a way for those two players to play together.

So I'm happy with where we are.

I would love to finish above Liverpool.

Don't know whether we'll manage it.

We'll see.

But you know, for next season, I think we're, you know, it's a young team.

We've also entered our blonde ponytail era.

My friend was there with her dad, doesn't know anything about some of these sort of WSL jokes.

And the first thing he said was, it's quite a few few blonde ponytails, aren't there?

So, you know, dads are also noticing.

Everton, meanwhile, picked up a much-needed three points in a 2-0 victory over West Ham.

They were made to wait for it, though.

The goals came in the 83rd and 86th minute from Martina Piermont and Aurora Galley to earn their first home win of the season.

Where is Marva Creel?

Proper battle this one, Susie.

Everton managing to snatch it right at the end.

Yeah,

I'm going to speak more about West Ham actually because I'm just really like their lack of consistency is just staggering to me because, you know, you get that absolutely phenomenal win against Arsenal, like really good.

The performance was so, so slick.

They were so well organised.

And then you fought to a 2-0 defeat to Everton, you know, a couple of weekends later.

Like, come on, I mean, you're performing really well.

What is going on here?

You should be beating Everton.

Like, Rhian Skinner has talked about lack of and things like that, and a need for more, and managers to not necessarily be judged on it.

But I just feel like, why are you getting so switched on for that Arsenal game and not for this big Everton game, which is a huge battle?

So, yeah, I was really disappointed in West Ham.

I mean, that said, obviously, the fact that I thought

Aurora Garley in particular was excellent and her strike was phenomenal as well.

And

Everton are a depleted side with a struggling defence, having lost most of it in the summer.

Um, and then Natalie Blourne in January as well.

So, that they were able to keep a clean sheet, I think, is hugely impressive in the context of where their squad is at.

But, yeah, I'm just super disappointed in West Ham.

Yeah, you mentioned the comments from Rianne Skinner, and actually, you reported on this, Emma, earlier on in the week.

Um, the top line that came out from her, expectation needs to match investment.

You can't work miracles overnight.

And managers that are sacked as well, she said, need more support.

I mean, you can't really argue with that, can you?

But it's a very broad statement.

Yeah, and to be honest, we were speaking generally.

So that wasn't necessarily about sort of her position or her experience.

It was just generally in the WSL.

And it was interesting.

Actually, we followed it up with most of the managers and the press conferences later on in the week.

And there was a lot of support for her comments actually, because I think on the outside, naturally, we talk about football as a results business, and very, you know, rightly so.

But I think there's a general sweeping assumption that you know, women's football, because it's on the rise, and I'm not talking about kind of the likes of

those guys and followers who have watched women's football for a while.

I think it's this broader knowledge of just football in general.

People forget that actually the WSL is still an extremely small league, you know, 22 games in comparison to the 38 games that you get in a Premier League.

And, you know, the level of investment and infrastructure that goes on in the background of clubs isn't the same as men's football.

And the large thing is actually the staffing numbers.

And that was something that Rhiann Skinner addressed:

the workload per person in each club, you know, I would argue is probably double in the men's side.

That's not to say that, you know, they work harder than those on the men's side.

It's just the expectations on their job role is so much more broader.

So, yeah, it was a really interesting discussion, and it led on to further points around sort of mental health support for managers who get sacked.

And obviously this is all in the wake of the previous weeks where, you know, Melissa Phillips left Brighton and there was such a shock around it.

And it's that which has really started that kind of debate.

So yeah, I thought it was a really interesting discussion.

And like I said, I think there was quite a lot of support for her comments from managers elsewhere.

I thought it was a really interesting piece, Emma.

Thank you.

And it sort of ended saying, sort of talking about work-life balance, which is a very interesting concept in football.

and I also thought that sort of investment in organizational culture would be interesting and not just facilities and resources because we know that all the best businesses look after their people

and they do that in men's football at that very sort of high level in terms of you know that that sort of no excuses so give you everything you need so you can sort of always you know deliver the results but i just sort of wonder imagine if it was about more than just sweating your asset in terms of the players and thinking about how you build the organization from a people-focused perspective, you could build a really interesting model, I think, in women's football.

And so, that's what I'd love to see.

So, your investment is holistic, not just in facilities and resources.

The thing that frustrates me is like all of these teams, right, are really, really young on their professional journey.

And, you know, particularly this sort of middle of the pack, the, you know, from Man United down to sort of Everton, West Ham, even Brighton, Bristol City, I suppose you can include them all, everyone out of the side, the top three, are

really, really

new

to what it means to be a professional setup and are grappling with all of these issues with where best is the money spent, who best is to have around the team, what does a professional environment look like, how do you take a heavily invested in men's professional setup and do that on a budget with the women's to as close an extent as possible.

So I find what I'm finding is particularly in the very, very middle of the table, those teams that have been at various points chasing to get into top three and have been like, This is the year we're going to do it, the Man United's, the Aston Villas last season, the Evertons prior to that.

Like, they're not being given any time to just consolidate in that middle part of the table.

The expectation is immediate, you have one good season, and the expectation is, right, now we go for top three.

Now we go to split up that thing.

There's not time to just spend a couple of seasons or a few seasons just gently building your squad in that like best of the rest pack and you know gradually consolidating more and more internationals into it and experience and building up the quality of your team gradually.

It's you know, wholesale changes.

It's you know, now we go for it and then we're going to gel this team instantly and we're going to go for the top.

And I just like, just think when you're looking at the Premier League with teams and clubs that are so developed and are like, so

machine-like in their levels of organization, the people around the squads, all of those kinds of things,

you know, the developed academies, all of that kind of stuff.

It's not the same thing.

These are so, so infant, and you just need to be given time.

So, that's why I'm really happy that Villa haven't like just swept Carla Wards aside after the difficult start at the beginning of the season because that is the risk, right?

That's what we saw at Everton with Willie Kirk.

And I just like, just feel like

that sort of slight humbling that Villa have had at the start of this season after such a good season last year is sort of indicative of this issue that we've got in that you're the expectation rises so so quickly and it's unfair because they're still like not to the levels of investment and structure and stuff that has been built by Chelsea Arsenal Man City over quite some time so yeah I just patience like just patience with all of them man United as well like

there are other issues there obviously at some clubs and different, like, to varying degrees.

But overall,

you need time to consolidate what you've got.

That's going to be interesting, isn't it, to see what the new investment model is going to look like at Manchester United with the new co-owners coming in and what they're going to do with the women's team for sure.

Just one more game to go through.

Finally, it was Liverpool who came away with all three points and their first WSL victory of 2024, thanks to a second-half strike from Captain Kerry Holland, who was then sent off in the dying moments after picking up two yellow cards.

One of those games.

Great.

Hero to villain is how they tend to be splashed over the back pages, aren't they?

The goal was a real gift, though, after a poor misplaced clearance from Brightonkeeper Sophie Baggerley.

Ended up at the feet of Holland, who slotted home.

But it means Liverpool are just two points behind Manchester United, Chris.

And you said you hoped Spurs can catch them, but how much belief will Matt Beardside have that they can realistically hunt down United?

Because I feel as if yourselves and uh and liverpool have been in a similar situation perhaps to aston villa last season and and you've been surprising many of us yeah and i i mean look liverpool just quietly going about their business i appreciate you know that you as you say it's the first win of of 2024 but you know they're there or they're about

you know spurs are only three points behind them so you've got to hope that we can catch them depending on how stuff goes and as as we've been talking today it's like there aren't huge amounts of patterns so you know, Susie just said that about West Ham.

You have that kind of a game against Arsenal, and then Everton win their first game at home for I don't know how long against you.

So I think from a Spurs perspective, you've got to hope we're going to catch them.

And then I guess from a Liverpool perspective, you've got to hope you can catch Manchester United, only two points behind them.

You can see they're wobbling a little bit.

You know, there's discontent amongst their fans.

You know, the fact that we had questions sort of saying, should Mark's going to be sacked tomorrow, just goes to show where they're at.

So I think that little bit is interesting there.

And I think there's just some, even though there isn't a European place to go for, there's something about being the best of the rest.

Exactly to Susie's point, as she's just said, the top three have been at it for ages.

You know, they've professionalized over, and I mean professionalize not just in the fact that they're professional in terms of their setups over a number of years.

And, you know, if you're Manchester United, Liverpool or Tottenham, you sort of believe, I think, just from a brand perspective almost, that you should be there anyway.

And so actually, you've got to figure out how you're going to do it and sort of give the backing to make it happen.

So I think it would be interesting.

And I have to say, not to sound too Kevin Keegan on myself, I would love it if it wasn't Manchester United finishing fourth.

I'd love it if we beat them.

They don't play each other, by the way, until the penultimate weekend of the season on the 7th of May.

Liverpool and Manchester United, I mean.

You know what's coming, Susie, don't you?

Our weekly, do we know what's going on to find Melissa Phillips' replacement?

No,

is the answer.

I've been sat in a hot tub, Faye.

I don't care about transfer stories and things at this stage.

I've only been back one day.

Listen, the Guardian bigwigs listen to this, Susie.

You don't need to tell them that.

You should be telling them that you're frantically working away on your laptop in said hot tub.

Such is the jeopardy of your role.

It could fall in.

Could fall in at any time.

Listen, I've got a couple of questions from socials from our Guardian Women's Football Weekly crew that I want to put to you all.

Amir says, what do you think about how physical the two top-of-the-table WSL games, which they say I was in attendance to, so might look different on TV, were.

I'm okay with the big games being a bit rough and saw nothing illegal, but felt lucky we didn't have anyone carried off and refs didn't have full control.

What do you reckon?

I mean, there's a split as to who watched it on TV and who was there.

Anybody want to comment?

I watched the first game, the City Chelsea game on Teddy, obviously, while I was away and

then raced back for the Arsenal game, missed all the Arsenal goals, got to the ground literally in the kickoff of half-time.

So that was that was great.

But,

you know, a feisty encounter between teams at the top of the table, I'm just like not overly concerned about.

Like, I just think that's, you know, path of the course and you expect it.

And as long as it's nothing, you know, like dangerous, then a little bit of feistiness just doesn't bother me at all.

I think that's you kind of want to see passion and commitment from your players.

Like I say, as long as it's safe and fair.

But yeah, a little bit, again, a little bit here.

I didn't think the refs weren't particularly in control.

I thought they both handled those games relatively well.

There were a few decisions that maybe, you know, weren't ideal, but that's the situation we're in with the sort of level of refereeing at the moment.

And those sort of decisions tend to level themselves out.

I wonder if we're over-policing women.

Just like, oh, women, it's a bit rough for women.

And I just think if it was a top-of-the-table clashes in the men's game, you wouldn't even think twice about it.

Yeah, the Martin Keown

arms up in the air over Van Distorio.

Like, we're used to seeing pretty feisty clashes, a bit like, or Mason Holgate's tackle on Sunday.

Oh, God.

Something out of UFC.

It's shocking.

Listen, I want to ask one more question, actually.

Take this one.

This is from Jez.

Do you think Friday night games should be a fixed slot in the WSL with games spread over Friday, Saturday and Sunday?

But it looks like they want 6.45 on Sunday scrapped and 5.15 on Saturday.

Let's take the Friday night game slot.

Should that be fixed in your opinion?

I think it's a tricky one because I think for TV viewers, it's a great slot.

I think for away fans, it's not great.

It's a Friday after work and you're having to travel.

So, for example, I live in Manchester, had to travel to London on a Friday night.

Terrible, absolutely hated it.

So,

I think there's pros and cons.

I think if we look at it purely from a TV point of view, it works.

I'm a little bit more flexible when it comes with TV slots.

I think I quite like having a bit of a mix.

So, I'm not too big on having a fixed slot, which I know is quite controversial.

But I think if I had to sway one way or the other, I'd probably say no because I don't think it's great for match-going fans.

I think it worked really well for top teams, but whether you know you'll get the same sort of hype around teams further down the table is another another question.

I actually don't mind the Friday slot at all.

I think it's quite nice.

And with 3 p.m.

Saturday just not on the cards at all and having been basically blocked is you know it's it's probably one of the better slots.

I think this the late Sunday one, if that's the second part of the question, I I hate I hate that that is the work.

I mean, at least Friday you can get around, right?

Like Sunday you've got engineering works.

It's, you know, ahead of your working week.

It's a nightmare for all traveling fans of both teams.

So I just, yeah, I hate that late Sunday slot.

But yeah, the Friday, I do wonder whether it will be as impactful as, you know, that big game under the lights vibe of a top-of-the-table clash.

I'm with you on the fan thing of the 645, but I'm also, I don't like the 645 on a Sunday.

I know why they did it.

They wanted the momentum of the 430 kickoff going into it.

I understand that, but I'm all footballed out by then.

I work and I'm a fan of men's and women's football.

And by the time 6.45 comes along, I'm like, I can't sit down for another 90 minutes to watch a game.

I just can't.

Anyway, let's move to the championship.

We've got a new leader at the top of the table.

Sunderland's dramatic 4-3 win over Lewis means that they surged to the summit, taking advantage after Charlton's match with Reading was postponed because of a waterlogged pitch.

Jennadere with two goals deep into stoppage time rescued all three points for the hosts.

Crystal Palace are just a point behind them in second place after they also scored four in a 4-0 thrashing of Blackburn, while Southampton were 2-1 winners at Birmingham, condemning the Blues to their second straight defeat, which sees them lose pace with the frontrunners.

So this is how the table looks.

It's Sunderland on 31 points.

Palace, Southampton and Charlton all just behind on 30 points.

But of course, you need to remember that both Palace and Charlton have played one game less than everybody else.

I mean, you know, we talk about the WSL title race going down to the wire.

Absolutely, the championship season is as well.

We kind of knew that really early on, didn't we?

It's been a tussle for sure.

International football to look forward to next.

The Lionesses are back in action for the first time since that hugely dramatic Nations League heartache, which cost them a place at this summer's Olympics under Team GB.

Friday night, Serena Viegman's side will face Austria.

Susie is heading out on a jet plane very shortly out to Marbs.

Lucky her for a week before England will take on Italy on Tuesday evening.

You're heading as soon as we finish recording, Susie.

Are you excited?

I mean, this is a stupid question, isn't it?

It's grey, miserable, and dank outside.

Of course, you're excited.

Oh, yeah, I'm so devastated to be being sent to Marbea for eight days.

I mean,

what a crisis.

Yeah, no, it should be great.

I'm actually, you know, obviously, would have loved to have seen a Team GB side at the Olympics.

Would have loved loved to have seen Igla competing in the Nations League semi-finals and stuff in the next week.

But at the same time, I'm also kind of really looking forward to seeing the team play some friendlies because we've had a lot of competitive fixtures.

And Serena Wigman has not in her tenure really had a time where they've not been playing competitive matches where she's been able to experiment with the side a huge amount and the personnel and bleed in some of the younger players or less experienced players.

And this is the opportunity to do it right.

Like Austria and Italy, friendlies.

We've got some good time now before competitive fixtures restart.

So, I'm like really excited about that.

But I'm actually more excited about seeing the under-23s play because they're playing Spain and the Netherlands in Spain as well, in Marbea, and the camps are sort of joint.

I'm like really, really looking forward to seeing like you know, Spain have the best youth development in the world, perhaps.

Um, and seeing our under-23 size go up against their under-23s, I think, is going to be like thrilling to see and a sign of who exactly might feed into the senior squad in the next kind of year or two, which is going to be great.

Yeah, who is going to feed into the squad, Emma, and what do we want to see from the Lionesses in this camp?

Is there anyone particularly well placed to make their mark?

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

I'm actually flying out to Spain tomorrow as well, but I'm just there for the first game, coming back for the Carabao Cup final on the weekend in the men's game.

But yeah, I'd actually really like to see Jess Park played in this new midfield role that she's been playing for City recently.

It'd be quite interesting.

I think, you know, the likes of Frank Kirby, obviously, you know, Chelsea kind of managed her minutes over the last couple of years and she's she's maybe might quite enjoy a bit of a bit of a rest in at least one of the games.

And obviously, I think it's kind of then Ella Toon, isn't it, that's in that role.

So I'd quite like to see Jess Park at least get half an hour or so in that midfield role, see how she gets on.

But yeah, if we're talking about kind of the other 23s and who might come in, the obvious one is obviously the likes of Aggie Beaver Jones, who's who's been, you know, fantastic for Chelsea this season.

She was great on the own at Everton last season.

I saw a lot of her up in the North West last season.

So I think she's fantastic.

And then, you know, there's a couple of nice sort of younger midfielders and defenders in that squad as well.

Obviously, Missy Beaucurns at Liverpool has she captains the under 23.

She's taken on a lot of leadership and responsibility in the Liverpool team as well as the England New team this season.

So she'll be hoping to try and try and get in Serena Viegman's pans.

So yeah, very much looking forward to it.

Like Susie, I just can't wait.

And I hope the weather's good.

Oh, my goodness, me.

I hope it rains.

No, I don't, I don't know if that is.

That's not very nice.

Hey, come on.

I clearly, I know, I'm such a mean-spirited person.

Of course, I don't hope it rains.

I hope it's wonderful.

And you come back with glowing tans and make us very jealous.

Listen, I meant to mention in the Arsenal game, actually, that Leah Williamson's face adorned the programme at the Emirates, but she actually wasn't part of the match day squad in the end.

And she's had to pull out of the Lioness's squad as a result.

That was the big headline coming out of the squad last weekend, but she's got a hamstring problem and that means she's going to miss this international break.

Millie Turner has been called up in her place, but Jonas Adevel, the Arsenal boss, has thankfully said it's minor.

So we wish Leah all the very best.

And I have to say, you kind of expect that there will be a few bumps in the road when you've been out for such a long time, but I hope she gets some competitive action again soon.

Don't forget the reason that England are out in Spain is that they're building building towards the 2025 European Championship.

And just a note for your calendars: the draw takes place in a couple of weeks' time on the 5th of March before the qualifying rounds get underway in April.

Now, before we go, it's been quite the week for Chris and the proud Lily Whites who just celebrated their 10-year anniversary, as we mentioned at the start of the pod.

I know that there was a special half-time entertainment at Brisbane Road on Sunday.

Yeah, I mean, we've, you know, we've been sort of crying into our half-time drinks since the beatboxers were retired over the Christmas period.

And we had the very first half-time interview at Brisbane Road on Sunday.

And that was myself and my mate and the secretary of the Pradley Whites, Sean Wallace.

And I'll tell you what, you know, I did halftime at the Tottenhamsburg Stadium on Saturday, which is amazing because, you know, it's like full-on production.

But, you know, people are paying a little bit of attention, not much.

But honestly, at Brisbane Road, it was lovely.

We were like, it was like talking to someone who was actually listening.

They were clapping in all the right places.

We got a few cheers.

It was just a really, it was really, really nice.

It's just, as I say, both days, just a shame the team didn't respond in the way that we would like them to.

But we're really proud of what we've achieved in these last 10 years.

And

we've really brought a load of people together this week.

We had an event at the stadium on Thursday night.

As I say, we did the stuff in the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on Saturday.

And our members, both in the country and across the world, were feeling sort of galvanised for whatever's next.

So yeah, really proud of what we've achieved.

Oh, that's brilliant.

You should be absolutely proud.

It's not only LGBT plus history month, but it's also football versus homophobia month of action as well.

And it's actually, I mean, it's always a really important time for visibility and encouraging inclusivity, but specifically at the moment, Chris.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think the FVH Month of Action, there's loads of brilliant stuff going on up and down the country, particularly they do a lot of work on grassroots.

So just, just i mean have a look at their um their social media feeds it's just full of football teams doing stuff you know sort of grassroots teams also you know professional teams and all sorts of activities there was some some good stuff at king's meadow on friday night as well i don't know if anybody caught that you know the teams with the fvh flag etc and you know i think We know that football can be a force for social and cultural transformation.

And that's what this campaign has been trying to do.

And that's 15 years old.

So they're the OGs, the football versus homophobia campaign.

And, you know, last year we saw an increase in homophobic chanting and abuse in professional football.

And it's really, really important that we report it and call it out and actually have campaigns like this to make sure that challenge is there.

You know, there was a FIF Pro study in the 2022 World Cup and homophobia was prolific online, particularly aimed at England and Germany because of their vocal support of the One Love arm band.

And we know that online hate has got real life consequences.

so last year in england and wales hate crimes targeting people's sexual orientation rose by 42 percent and crimes against trans people rose by 56 percent and we know that trans people are under attack daily in the press you know on our streets the discourse is shifting and we can't let that discourse shift any further because it's dangerous so while we're not safe on our phones safe on our streets and while football can sometimes send us signals, men's football actually can sometimes send us signals that we don't belong, you know the football versus homophobia campaign organizations like the proud lily whites remain a beacon for positive change that fans can make so have a look at the fvh feed support your local teams doing stuff because this this stuff really does matter it absolutely does and the work that you're doing chris is absolutely superb as it has been for uh the last 10 years with proud lilywites but way before that as well um right it's time for us to go chris enjoy dark damp rainy london you know what i always love london i'm not gonna i wouldn't swap it for marbea fee that's for sure no me neither and m if i ever have a birthday party i can't invite you because you'd have to come to london and you'd hate it and as your friend i couldn't do that to you i know i know well you know what we could just go away let's just go to marbea for a week by the way can can i just say before i have to leave congratulations to chris on on a fantastic achievement thank you absolutely uh susie have fun in marves i'll miss you for 10 days but um i'll see you.

Just when you jump on the call next week for our NWSL special for Guardian Women's Football Weekly, just do me a favour and just don't show me the beach and the sea outside of your window, please.

I'll do it on the beach.

Oh, God, that'd be even worse.

Unbelievable.

Right, wonderful panel today.

Thank you, all of you.

Keep having your say as well.

Thanks for sending me your questions today.

You can also send them every single week via X or anywhere else on social media or email us at women's football weekly at theguardian.com.

And as ever, a reminder for you to sign up to our bi-weekly women's football newsletter.

All you need to do is search moving the goalposts, sign up.

And in Tuesday's edition, there's a closer look at the rise of North Korea's women's team, who are now ninth in the world rankings and set to take on Japan in the Olympic playoffs.

And very excitingly, on Thursday, former Chelsea captain Magdalena Erickson is doing her first newsletter focusing on how to beat Spain with the Nations League League semifinals just around the corner, trying to beat Spain, at least, giving it the best shot.

The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver.

Music composition was by Laura Iredell.

Our executive producer is Salamat.

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Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

This is the Guardian.