Jürgen Klopp to step down at Liverpool as Maidstone step up – Football Weekly

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Speaker 4 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Two huge stories, Maidstone's FA Cup triumph and Jorgen Klopp's announcement that he's stepping down at the end of the season.

Speaker 4 And with apologies to George Elikovi, we'll start with Klopp.

Speaker 4 It seems to have surprised everyone, but gives us a chance to celebrate his achievements, his ability to improve players and build and rebuild his squad.

Speaker 4 What will he do after heavy metal football perhaps wind down with the acid jazz of international management? And what next for the red? Jabbi Alonso just seems to tick every single box.

Speaker 4 Then onto the cup, 98 places between Maidstone and Ipswich, and it might have been smash and grab, but what a glorious victory.

Speaker 4 Two brilliant counter-attacking goals and a great goalkeeping performance. Everything you need to cause an upset.

Speaker 4 We'll do the other games, a scare for Man Yu, the crowd trouble at the Hawthorns, and Man City scoring at Spurs for the first time in years.

Speaker 4 And is the pod in danger of falling into the pocket of big steak all that plus your questions and that's today's guardian football weekly

Speaker 4 on the panel today barry glen denning welcome hi max hello john bruin hello and hello jonathan faduba good morning max Good morning. And joining us for part one.
It's been too long.

Speaker 4 Our Merseyside correspondent, Andy Hunter. Hey, Andy.

Speaker 1 Hi. You're okay.

Speaker 4 Yeah, good. Thanks.
Andrew says, I remember where I was when I heard Shankley was going, and I'll always remember hearing that Klopp was going.

Speaker 4 He's been perfect for Liverpool, bringing not only success, but also so much joy. Thank you, Jürgen.
Let's hope we get Alonzo and he's as good as he seems to be.

Speaker 4 So Jürgen Klopp decided to leave Liverpool at the end of the season. He's won seven major trophies so far.
The Champions League, of course, and their first league title for 30 years.

Speaker 4 He released a video. I don't know about you, Andy.
I mean, I presume it's been quite a busy weekend for you, but I'm rarely surprised by anything.

Speaker 4 But I was really, I wouldn't say shock is maybe going too far, but it really took me aback.

Speaker 6 This video, oh, I was shocked, completely shocked. Um, I had no inkling it was coming, uh, which is probably shouldn't be saying, as the Ms.
football correspondent.

Speaker 6 But uh, no, I mean, he did his press conference on Thursday for the Norwich Game, which was unusual. We were asking questions about that and giving some story about it.

Speaker 6 Being for he had a very busy commercial day on the Friday, so couldn't do it.

Speaker 6 And then the first inkling that anything was out of the ordinary was getting an email moments before Liverpool released the video saying there was going to be a press conference at the training centre that afternoon.

Speaker 6 No indication of what it involved. I genuinely thought it could have been a Dunkin' Donuts deal renewal.
And I was questioning whether I had to go there.

Speaker 6 And then next thing, the video dropped and all hell broke loose. And genuinely, genuinely gobsmacked when

Speaker 6 I heard him say that he was leaving at the end of the season.

Speaker 6 I know he'd been quite deflated by last season, and we spoke about it to him or with him at the beginning of this season about him being re-energised by the transfers and about how well Liverpool were playing.

Speaker 6 So that side of things, that doubt about whether he still had the energy that he needs to do the job, had kind of been, we thought, put to bed.

Speaker 4 And Annie, what's the last 48 hours been like then?

Speaker 6 From being at Anfield yesterday and from obviously the reactions on Friday, one of well, initial devastation amongst Liverpool fans and then and disbelief.

Speaker 6 Still, I think you know, I know quite a few people who sit near the press box or Anfield in the main stand yesterday who just

Speaker 6 still couldn't come to terms with it and shaking their heads.

Speaker 6 And they were very, inevitably very supportive of Klopp getting behind them in the first minute and a sustained chorus of Jurgen as a red after the final whistle.

Speaker 6 But generally, I think people are still in just disbelief. And

Speaker 6 you know, not so much at the moment that can come worrying what comes next. I'm sure that is a feeling, but the sense of loss that

Speaker 6 will come when he does step away because he's much more than a successful manager for Liverpool.

Speaker 4 Can you give a sense of what he means to the fans and sort of what he's done to half of the city?

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 6 talking about energy and talking about him running out of energy, he has re-energized the fan base, brought it all together, given a new generation moments and nights and trips that they will never forget.

Speaker 6 Even if you could say that he could have won two more Champions Leagues or pipped for the title twice. I think it's more the joy.
I think Jonathan Liu put it brilliantly in his piece on Friday.

Speaker 6 It's the feel, the feel that he's brought to Liverpool. That can't be replaced.
That's the sadness, I think, for Liverpool fans now is you could get another successful manager who could maybe

Speaker 6 keep pushing Liverpool to challenge city's dominance, but there isn't another clop.

Speaker 6 And it's that joy, it's that feeling, that communal experience that that is going. And

Speaker 6 it'll be a very sad day when it does get does end.

Speaker 4 Barry, what did you make of his reasoning? I mean, sort of that sense of perspective seems quite healthy to me.

Speaker 4 It sort of feels like within football, it's like no one could ever just go, do you know what? I'm actually just a bit knackered. So I'll just, I'll just have a breather.
I'll just step away.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, when I heard the news, I was stunned like everyone else. And my immediate thought was, oh, is he okay?

Speaker 1 Like, you know, I thought, oh, maybe he's ill or something, or he's had a hell scare. You know, someone in his family has had a hell scare.

Speaker 1 But I suppose when you think about his reasoning, assuming the reasons he's given are genuine and have no reason to think they aren't,

Speaker 1 walking away at the top of your game is difficult, but if you can afford to do it and you know that there'll always be a job for you somewhere else when you decide you want to come back, if you want to come back,

Speaker 1 then it's grand. Why not do it? And

Speaker 1 he,

Speaker 1 you know, for a while, he has looked like he's had the weight of the world on his shoulders. It's a very stressful job.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he's been there quite a long time. So I did think it was interesting, actually.

Speaker 1 Andy asked him during his press conference, was there any chance he might do a Fergie on it and change his mind, you know, and asked him, is there anything that could happen that would make you change your mind?

Speaker 1 And it was a good question. And it was quite funny that Klopp seemed genuinely not to know that Fergie had, you know, announced his...

Speaker 1 departure, then changed his mind and stayed at Manchester United for another decade or more. So, uh, and he said, No, uh, nothing could happen if if we don't win any trophies, I won't change my mind.

Speaker 1 If we win all four trophies, I won't change my mind. And I suppose the one thing I did find quite curious was his

Speaker 1 definitive announcement that he will never manage in England again. And I thought that was a bit strange.
Uh, I don't know why he would say that.

Speaker 1 Is it just out of loyalty to Liverpool or to help Eric Ten Hag have a good night's sleep. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 yeah, so

Speaker 1 I mean, I'd like to know, Andy, he's obviously a good man. He's a nice man.

Speaker 1 He's a brilliant manager, but he can occasionally be a bit spiky and unpleasant in interviews. And

Speaker 1 how's your relationship with been with him over the years? And how do you guys who deal with him, you know, week after week,

Speaker 1 how do you all get on with him?

Speaker 6 I think i'd say quite well i mean to be honest we're in a fortunate position or privileged position where we've you know we we cover liverpool all the time we've been there for some of us older ones have been there for the duration and so i think with that comes a bit more of a better relationship uh you know a lot of his spikier press conferences i would say have come I mean and obviously this is not an exact science but a lot of them have come at away matches when he's getting questioned by someone perhaps he doesn't really know.

Speaker 6 And he's, if they don't win a game, Liverpool, he's not great to deal with. Even if they get a fortunate draw, he's not great to deal with.

Speaker 6 If they win, fine. But like most managers are like that, I suppose.
I think he's,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 6 he likes to control the room as well. That's the other thing.
But I think, you know, as I say, from dealing with him for nine years,

Speaker 6 and we don't just, you know, we see him separately to the broadcast interview that you see.

Speaker 6 You know, he'll go off to a side room and have a few minutes with the written press, and that can be a bit more relaxed anyway.

Speaker 6 So, if he wants, if he has an issue with something that's in the papers or that's out there, he can

Speaker 6 take it to task and you can have it out with him without it being

Speaker 6 broadcast and then becoming a social media sensation. He can actually be himself and just get get it out there.

Speaker 6 And I think he likes that part of things, is that knowing that he could kick off at someone and it's not going to, you know, be dissected for, you know, by 20 million people. So, yeah,

Speaker 6 I think we have quite a decent relationship with him. But, you know, the demands on his time as well.
I mean, I remember seeing

Speaker 6 his press list before a Champions League final, no, on a Champions League press final, a media day where they're doing the rounds. And he had something like 20-odd interviews to do in one afternoon.

Speaker 6 And just like that would drive me nuts.

Speaker 4 It's like Margot Robbie at a film jacket, isn't it?

Speaker 6 Yeah, you're getting asked, but you've been getting asked the same question as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 And if you're doing that 20th interview and your patience is well gone by then, you've still got to look like it's the first time you've heard it enthusiastic because whoever is seeing that interview, whatever country that is in, are going to be, you know, forming their judgment off the back of it.

Speaker 6 So, you know I remember seeing that list and I couldn't genuinely couldn't believe how many interviews he had to do and I know it's not a Champions League final press day every every week but you know that it gives a sense of the demands that's on him and increasing all the time as well Jonathan what's the Barcelona's the greatest moment right isn't it that second leg is just is just so extraordinary Yeah, winning the Champions League clearly has to go down as his greatest achievement, the Premier League as well, ending that sort of long 30-year wait for Liverpool.

Speaker 7 During the COVID season, mate, meant it didn't have the same impact. You can imagine the city would have been much crazier had it not been for Covid.

Speaker 7 And you know, you can only imagine the scenes if they win it this season, of course. They've got a good chance of winning it.

Speaker 7 I think there's a lot of things wider that Klopp did that kind of really changed Liverpool, the club, and also maybe you could argue the Premier League in a sense.

Speaker 7 I mean, he brought in Bayer Munich's head of nutrition, I believe, and sort of completely revolutionised the nutrition side of the club.

Speaker 7 I mean, Andy, you confirm this, but as far as I'm aware, in terms of youth development, changed the Academy pay structure, or the club changed the Academy pay structure to sort of cap the amounts that youth players

Speaker 7 could earn. And that allowed the sort of youth development side to really thrive.

Speaker 7 You know, you only had to look at the game yesterday, Conor Bradley, and McConnell playing, and he's obviously brought through the likes of Trent, Curtis Jones.

Speaker 7 There's so many players who have progressed through Liverpool's Academy into the first team under Klopp.

Speaker 7 And having that eye on the youth team and the youth development side, I think, is a really important factor.

Speaker 7 Hiring things like a throwing coach, you know, that at the time, I know it was sort of five, six years ago now, but that at the time was, you know, really considered revolutionary, wasn't it?

Speaker 7 There was a point where Liverpool, having a throw-in was almost like having a corner.

Speaker 7 You were worried when Liverpool got a throw-in because they became so good at that side of the game under Klopp.

Speaker 7 So there's so many different avenues that he's kind of, including that heavy metal football that he brought in from Dortmund.

Speaker 7 There's so many different avenues of change that he brought about to Liverpool.

Speaker 7 And I think it's like Andy said there, it's just it's also that that father figure type of role that he's had in the city and at the club. He's kind of a natural born leader.
And

Speaker 7 you know, listening to his press conference, he mentioned something that struck me about energy. He said his leadership style, I think, is based on energy, emotion and relationships.

Speaker 7 And that basically without that, he can't, if he can't be all in, then he can't really do it and manage in the way that he wants to manage.

Speaker 7 And, you know, it's quite a frank admission, but it was a really good insight into his leadership style, which I found interesting.

Speaker 7 I think he's the sort of of man who has a he'll have a job, you know, coaching managers or doing leadership training, whatever he wants. He's going to be really interesting to get insights from.

Speaker 7 I can imagine reading a leadership book on him at some point in the future. So, there's so many different elements to Klopp and how he's affected Liverpool that I think

Speaker 7 not only just the trophies and the style of football he's brought in, but there's just all that wider thing. I mean, just quickly, like, I actually flew back to Liverpool on Friday from Barcelona, and

Speaker 7 the guy at the border control to my friend, he said to him, instead of saying, can I have your passport, first thing he said to him was, have you heard about Klopp?

Speaker 1 And he said he'd been crying.

Speaker 7 He said he'd been crying all afternoon since he heard the news.

Speaker 7 So, you know, when the border control guy isn't giving a Mexican guy some grief about his passport, he was more interested in talking about Klopp. That kind of sums it all up, really.
So, yeah,

Speaker 7 I think the city is quite sad and clearly, it's probably a sad day for the Premier League as well.

Speaker 4 His ability, John, to he's great with great players.

Speaker 4 But when you think about, I know, the importance of like Devokarighi in the history of what Klopp has achieved, like he's got an ability to manage every kind of player within a squad.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 5 I think you maybe go back to Dortmund days and look at some of the players that came out of that club, looked so good at Dortmund and never really made it at the next club that they moved to.

Speaker 5 And then you look at... Liverpool's recruitment when he came into the club.

Speaker 5 Andy will remember this all too well,

Speaker 5 the old transfer committee and all the rows about that between the fans. And it was one of those big topics of debate.
And Klopp came in. Something similar, I think, operates at that point.

Speaker 5 But what Klopp has is the ability to turn talent that arrives in his team and make use of it. And there aren't many Liverpool players that have come in and have been complete flops in his time.

Speaker 5 And let's compare that to the great rivals down the road, Manchester United.

Speaker 5 That's one of the big accusations made in their failings in the last 10 years and yeah he's such an energizing figure you know as andy said i've i've been at a couple of the games where he's uh lost you know down at bournemouth uh or where he's asked the wrong question i think what andy said

Speaker 5 he always likes to be the first question he gets to describe the game himself doesn't he you know so it's like you first question is you could say you could say anything and he will just say well we started well we played this or whatever but i remember uh someone asking him a question about daniel Surrey's first question and him absolutely exploding because it wasn't his description of the game.

Speaker 5 So, yeah, I mean, the thing is, you know,

Speaker 5 what Klock brought is natural charisma. And when Liverpool turned to him as manager back in 2015, they got themselves a front man.

Speaker 5 If you're playing this heavy metal thing, they got themselves a front man. They got a guy that means that the American owners can sit in the background.

Speaker 5 They can take some of the credit for his success.

Speaker 5 But, you know, in this world, this new football world, isn't it, of like sporting directors and all these technical consultants and all these type of things, Klopp showed actually that the power of the manager is still as strong as ever.

Speaker 5 But also, when you look at the way he steps away from the game, you look at how

Speaker 5 being that set, being that front man, being that centre of a club can really take it out of someone.

Speaker 5 This season, we've talked about on a pod about how he's looked so agitated at times. He's looked, there's a certain greying out of the old Jurgen clock that I've seen.

Speaker 5 But then you look at his contemporaries and maybe a little bit older, or

Speaker 5 you look at Pep Guardiola, look at Jose Mourinho. Yeah, these are good-looking men, right? These are good-looking men, but they look older than they actually are.
I think, you know,

Speaker 5 the game has taken an awful lot out of them.

Speaker 4 It's a bit like a pod. I mean, that happens for pod regulars, doesn't it?

Speaker 5 Yeah, this what is it, six years now I've been on this thing. I mean, it's taken years off me, but it's you look like Manuel Pellegrini now, John.

Speaker 1 I'd just like to state for the record I do not have a single grey hair.

Speaker 5 I've got many. I didn't have them when I started, but you know, but yeah, exactly.
The thing is, it is such a hard, hard like, and the thing is, Andy,

Speaker 5 in a piece he wrote for the paper on Saturday.

Speaker 5 you know, mentioned the Bill Shankley resignation back in 1974 and the Kenny Dalgleese one. And when you look at at

Speaker 5 both, all three are very similar. All three of them step away talking of the weight of managing Liverpool because of all jobs, maybe there are others just as big.

Speaker 5 The pressures are so great, aren't they?

Speaker 4 And actually, Andy, that's interesting, isn't it? Were the fans yesterday and have the fans you've spoken to and in your personal view, you have Klopp at the same level as Dal Gleesh and Shankley?

Speaker 6 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 100%.

Speaker 6 In terms of what he means to the place as well and his connection with the city.

Speaker 6 It's not just about trophies, it's about the connection and the feel of the place. So, yeah, absolutely up there.

Speaker 6 But one thing I would say as well about him feeling tired or perhaps or running out of energy is Klopp feels responsible for absolutely everything that happens at Liverpool, from the first team to the staff to the canteen staff to the people on the gates.

Speaker 6 He feels a huge weight of responsibility for everything they do. And I know this might not be the most exciting conspiracy theory for why he announced his departure when he did.

Speaker 6 But one of the reasons was because, like Jonathan mentioned, the nutritionist and the backroom staff, he wants to give his backroom staff who will probably have to leave the club because of his decision.

Speaker 6 And he feels a weight of that. He wants to give them time to plan their next step.

Speaker 6 uh this summer you know if if they've got kids they're going to have to move schools you know if they came with them from germany they're going to have to start looking for work and clubs back in Germany or elsewhere.

Speaker 6 So he wanted to give them all, you know, a good few months to start that process as well because he feels such responsibility to the entire club that he has built.

Speaker 4 Should that be Alonso then, Jonathan? I mean, it seems so destined, doesn't it? And I don't know. It just seems like everything is just geared towards Alonso.

Speaker 4 I'm obviously hoping that Ange Postakogli doesn't find out that Klopp's leaving. That's sort of

Speaker 4 my main fear. But do you think Alonso would be a good idea? Or is it too early to say?

Speaker 7 I think he's going to be the favourite, isn't he? Along with probably Deserbi at Brighton. They seem to be the front runners.

Speaker 7 It struck me when it was announced that

Speaker 7 they also announced that Pep Landers will be leaving. I thought that there was maybe a succession plan potentially.
I think it's been discussed in the past.

Speaker 7 that the assistant manager would maybe come in and eventually replace Klopp. He's very well regarded at Liverpool, I think, Andy.
Obviously, you'll know more than me.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I remember reading once that there was some sort of idea that he may be in a position to take over,

Speaker 7 really involved in the coaching side of things and sort of maybe a protege of Klopp. So I was surprised to see him leaving.
But yeah, Alonso's done fantastically well

Speaker 7 at Liverkoosen.

Speaker 7 It's still fairly early in his managerial career, so things could still go wrong. I mean, they're called by Nevercouzen for a reason as a nickname because they never win the league.

Speaker 7 And obviously, they're doing so well at the moment, but you still aren't really 100% convinced that they'll win the Bundesliga, just given the way that Bayern always seems to find a way.

Speaker 7 And if he was to win the Bundesliga, of course, that would be a massive achievement that maybe then you would say, yeah, he can withstand the pressure of even a Bundesliga title race against a team like Bayern.

Speaker 7 But it's too early to know that really at the moment, isn't it? And

Speaker 7 a club as well-run as Liverpool, I get the sense that they've already

Speaker 7 sort of maybe chosen who who will succeed him. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was announced fairly soon.

Speaker 7 So I don't know if, you know, given Alonso's situation at Liverkoosen, if he would have been open to those conversations right now,

Speaker 7 I do think Deserbi has a really good chance as well. Just the style of football.

Speaker 7 I always get a sense with Deserbi that he's, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but I always get the sense in his press conferences that he's... maybe there for the taking.

Speaker 4 Just in the way he sometimes comments about Brighton as like a, we're a small club or we're a project or, you know, we have to play young players he says a lot of things like that in in press conferences where it's like come and get me plea type vibe he hasn't gone as far he hasn't gone as far as saying we're a this is a stepping stone I'm waiting for him to say that and then we'll then we'll know for sure quickly Andy before you go um you're at the game against Norwich we'd mentioned the youngsters he is leaving a squad in sort of great shape and better shape than probably anyone thought at the start of this season and he could go out on this like ridiculous high right could win four trophies oh yeah absolutely I think the one that would please him most or would be the main target would be winning the league in front of fans.

Speaker 6 I think that would be

Speaker 6 that's what he wants. I mean, I know his record in getting to European finals is fantastic.
So, you're certainly Anne Liverpool, clearly, favourites for the Europa League anyway.

Speaker 6 But I think to win another Premier League in front of a full house and celebrate it properly will be

Speaker 6 the driving ambition, I think, for the next four months as well.

Speaker 6 I think that's the one.

Speaker 4 Thanks for coming on, Andy. Appreciate it.

Speaker 7 Thanks for having me. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Andy onto the Moseside correspondent. And we'll be back in a second with Maidstone's great win over Ipswich.

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Speaker 4 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 4 Tom, a Maidstone fan, writes, if I was buzzing after the Stevenage game, I'm absolutely on one now, utter delirium among the Maidstone fans, and I don't think George Elikobe will ever have to buy a drink again.

Speaker 4 A word also for Ipswich, who charged 10 for adults and five quid for children for a game that, for Maidstone, at least, could have sold out twice over.

Speaker 4 And for their fans, a large proportion of whom stayed behind to applaud George and his men off the pitch. When the draw was made, there was mild disappointment.
We only drew Ipswich.

Speaker 4 But I wonder if playing in a historic old ground with a great atmosphere was actually better than playing a dictator's PR project in a soulless corporate bowl.

Speaker 4 I certainly wouldn't have swapped today for anything. What an absolutely brilliant day for them, Baz.

Speaker 1 Fantastic. It's everything you want from a cup upset.
I mean, Maidstone could very easily have been three or four and ill down inside 20 minutes.

Speaker 1 I don't think it's taking away from their achievement to say that they rode their luck. Their goalkeeper had the game of his life.
He was superb.

Speaker 1 They ran, they ran, and they ran. They didn't stop running.
They really worked so hard. They had two shots on goals, scored both of them.
The first was a sensational finish from Lamar Reynolds.

Speaker 1 Absolutely brilliant goal. Ipswich equalised,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 then maybe you think, oh, that's it. Then they might get a replay, but then they go and score again.
The second goal probably should have been disallowed.

Speaker 1 I mean, it definitely should have been disallowed for a foul in the build-up, a tug on the shirt, George Fowler on Sarmiento, Sarmiento, who scored the Ipswich goal.

Speaker 1 And if there had been Varr, it would have been disallowed, but we didn't have Varr, so it wasn't so great

Speaker 1 and hard-looking. I don't actually think Ipswich did a huge amount wrong.
They just couldn't score. And

Speaker 1 they played quite well. They had 38 shots.
And then you look at the Maidston team. They've

Speaker 1 a player of Nepalese extraction who's the son of a Gurkha. Luca Govalin in goal, goal, a former Brazil under 20.

Speaker 1 Gavin Hoyt, who's who's played on the same pitch as Leo Messi while representing Trinidad and Tobago. George Galecobe, we all know, used to play for Wolves.

Speaker 1 And apparently, half a Cameroon and half a Nepal were watching this game, tuning in with interest.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, just a wonderful story. And,

Speaker 1 you know, we were obliged to say that, you know,

Speaker 5 those who say the magic of the cup does no longer exist, it does it very much did at portman road on on saturday um stephen says any chance we can just have an hour special on george elacobi he john is he's sort of one of the standout stars of this season isn't he he is yeah i was just listening back to the post-match interview with him to say he's a bubbly character really is underselling it isn't it although having said that let's go back to the cynicism of the journalist shall we uh a colleague of mine not from the guardian i should say,

Speaker 5 told me that he spoke really, really well, Ela Kobe. The problem was it's for 30 minutes, and having to transcribe that

Speaker 5 is a right pain in the ass.

Speaker 5 Because

Speaker 5 this is what happens. You see,

Speaker 5 just give me 50 words of gold.

Speaker 4 and then

Speaker 5 just give me 50 words of gold and then go and then we can all go home and elacobe just went for it uh

Speaker 5 and you Well, why not? But yes,

Speaker 5 yeah, yeah, but and

Speaker 5 there's more to come. There's more to come.
I remember there was one years ago, remember that the Cowley brothers, they're still floating around, aren't they? That's Low Riches.

Speaker 5 I remember sitting through 45 minutes of the Cowley brothers thinking, yeah, well done, lads, but, you know, can we go home now?

Speaker 1 I remember being at a Crystal Palace game once,

Speaker 1 pretty tight deadline on a Saturday afternoon, and Ian Holloway went off on one.

Speaker 1 And it got to the stage where people were just getting up and walking off to the corner so they could finish the matrimony. And Holloway is just holding court for about 40 minutes.

Speaker 1 It's like, shut up, Ian.

Speaker 4 Jonathan, we've talked about Maidstone's story before, but it is worth repeating. This is extraordinary what they're achieving, isn't it?

Speaker 7 Yeah, and I think I'm...

Speaker 7 Without bragging, I think I'm uniquely positioned to comment on a lot of these players, having watched a lot of them in their early careers. Yes.
And so I'm going to laugh.

Speaker 4 And brag away.

Speaker 4 I mean listen no one else is bragging about maidstone knowledge this is it this isn't a humble brag this is exactly what bragging should be I've waited six years for this I'm gonna absolutely lap it off

Speaker 7 off you go no but I mean I've watched Lamar Reynolds at Brentwood Town about six years ago uh came come through as a good example um and I think the point is a lot of these players

Speaker 7 like what is so magical about non-league is like a lot of the players the journeys they go through to get to this level and the persistence that they have to sort of continue hoping to achieve something like this one day in their lives, I suppose.

Speaker 7 Reynolds is a great example. Like I say, he started at Brentonwood Town.
He got a move to Newport County, I think. Then it didn't quite work out.

Speaker 7 He sort of moved around non-league for a long time, played at Braintree, and eventually got his move to Maidstone in the summer. And then he takes the goal like that against

Speaker 7 Sipswich Town at Portman Road.

Speaker 7 You'd never think someone who's, you know, been at semi-pro for a lot of his life would take the goal under pressure like that in such a high-pressure situation, just dinking the keeper with his weaker foot it was an incredible finish you know manny dooku for example up front he was playing in gibraltar two weeks ago uh i think got released or left the club basically playing for a team called i think manchester 62 um and

Speaker 7 next thing you know he's sort of starring in an incredible fa cup uh adventure There's so many I could mention that I know personally as well some of the players. So obviously...

Speaker 4 Please do. Please do.

Speaker 7 No, I won't go into too much detail, but yeah, I know some of the players personally.

Speaker 7 So from that point of view, just knowing what they've been through in their careers um and things they've had to overcome to have a day like this is is really remarkable and i know that yeah the cup does get a bit downtrodden on and i know there's a lot of like magic of the cup cliches and things like that but it is genuinely the only real opportunity for a lot of players to sort of have the limelight like the national and her limelight or even global um to a certain extent that that a lot of players search for for their whole careers if you know what i mean a lot of players work really hard to get to this to this stage it would have been nice when the draw came out if they maybe got Wolves for the Elocobe angle.

Speaker 7 I think there was like four teams left in the hat, wasn't there? And there was Man City as well somewhere along the line.

Speaker 7 So I think the Maidstone fans are probably a little bit disappointed with the draw that came out.

Speaker 7 Man City or Wolves for Elocobe. And then they ended up with sort of Coventry or Schiffer Wednesday.

Speaker 7 But they'll probably go there and fancy themselves to get something from the game, as crazy as it sounds. And imagine if they were to get there.

Speaker 7 I mean, I think it's the first non-league team to reach the last 16 since, I think, the

Speaker 7 70s, but I'm not entirely sure Blyde Spartans were

Speaker 1 the lowest ranked team since Blyde Spartans to make the fifth round in 78 I believe. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 5 Was it Telford United got to fifth round in 85 or something like that?

Speaker 4 That sounds familiar. This is this is not in my knowledge.

Speaker 7 I think it's Blight Spartans.

Speaker 1 I think Barry's right.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 4 Jonathan, when you talk to players like this, and you know, it is worth remembering, you know, these are seriously good footballers still, right? But genuinely, is their motivation,

Speaker 4 I might get one day out like this, or are they, because, you know, I guess there comes a time as a non-league footballer where you go, I'm probably not going to make it into the league.

Speaker 4 But presumably, most of the time they are aspiring and they're still aspiring to just get as high as they can.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I think a lot of the time

Speaker 7 you've either got players who sort of come up completely through non-league and have been doing this

Speaker 7 the whole career, or you get players who maybe got released from big big clubs i mean uh there's players in that team for example released from crystal palace there's players released from sort of arsenals and and and and and clubs like that and there's that kind of defiant streak where it's like i'm gonna i'm gonna prove that i was good enough to make it i mean you know jacob berkeley edgypong in midfield he someone i know and um he played in the same team as aaron wenbassaka and they were they were teammates at palace uh and i suppose for certain players there's that that feeling that

Speaker 7 whether right or wrong they were released maybe harshly and and they never had the opportunities that they wanted.

Speaker 7 And there's that kind of feeling like, I'm going to make it back one day. For some players, like you say, Max, there's that feeling of, well, I'll just play and see what happens.

Speaker 7 But I think a lot of players that I know and speak to, there's always that dream that they'll make it eventually and a day like this will come.

Speaker 7 And so I feel like for a lot of the players, there'll be that feeling of, yeah, you know, I am good enough to make it at a certain level and I can show that I'm good enough.

Speaker 7 And I think on days like this, it's that feeling of vindication of like, well, I'm not that bad, if you know what I mean. And sometimes, you know, the journey of football is so unpredictable

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 you can get swallowed up and you don't know where you're going to end up. And it is a massive journey.

Speaker 7 But I suppose days like that kind of just reinvigorate and give the feeling that, you know, you're not that far away. And when you look at the game, I know they were sort of battered at times.

Speaker 7 I mean, the goalkeeper has an interesting backstory himself. And, you know, you'd have to sort of say that they did get away with it a little bit.

Speaker 7 A lot of the players aren't that bad. And I don't think that there's a massive, I mean,

Speaker 7 I know there's 100 places between and 98 places between Ipswich and Maidstone in the league structure, but at times there's not a huge, like, massive gap between the standard of the players.

Speaker 7 It's maybe coaching or persistence or hunger, things like that,

Speaker 7 that determine

Speaker 7 the success of a player, maybe.

Speaker 7 So there is the ability for these players to pull off these kind of games where they're just, they're on it and they can take on a championship team or take on a League One team.

Speaker 7 So I don't think the gap's massively as big as it used to be. Part of the reason for that is non-league these days,

Speaker 7 it's very rare that you see a player who's sort of

Speaker 7 eating pies before the game starts and is clearly like 10 pounds, you know, 10 pounds overweight or whatever.

Speaker 7 I think it speaks to the professionalisation of like young people as well. They don't really drink as much as maybe before.

Speaker 7 There's more of like a gym culture than say 20 years ago, 30 years ago, maybe. You know, going to the gym is like cool now, isn't it,

Speaker 7 for younger people.

Speaker 7 Staying fit is like a bigger thing now even than sort of 30, 40 years ago, I would say, if you were looking at non-league then. So it's professionalised a bit more.

Speaker 4 so yeah i mean i could talk about it for a long time so i'll kind of cut it there but basically there's a lot of different factors it's interesting i was watching barry's face when you said going to the gym is cool um and it sort of sort of glazed slight slightly slightly glazed over i think you're absolutely right i think that is really interesting and also i think that sorry what happened to my face I remained completely expressionless throughout.

Speaker 1 I mean, I didn't react in any way.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 I'll take it back. Yeah, it's interesting that I wonder with non-league, you know, we just presume football is a sort of total meritocracy.

Speaker 4 You know, the absolute best will get there and the second best.

Speaker 4 And maybe there is, you know, there will be so many lucky breaks along the way that might change the whole sort of perspective of where you end up as a footballer.

Speaker 1 But well done. I think non-league players, they're all excellent footballers, but

Speaker 1 they just don't do it as consistently as people who are playing at higher level or, you know, Premier League players. I mean, that finish from Lamar Reynolds was absolutely outstanding.

Speaker 1 And if a Premier League player did it, we'd still be saying, oh, what a goal, what a finish. But, you know, I'm guessing he probably doesn't do that week in, week out.

Speaker 7 Totally agree. I think the consistency is a big part of it.

Speaker 4 Anyway, well done to Maidstone and a fantastic day for them to Newport, who scared Manchester United. They lost 4-2 in the end, but they got it to 2-2, didn't they?

Speaker 4 That Will Evans goal in the 47th minute you were there john what was that moment like well it wasn't unexpected um

Speaker 5 it's funny you know uh united go 2-0 up playing well and i was near the united fans in the temporary stand and they weren't larging it or lording it over newport county because They've seen this team before.

Speaker 5 And it was pretty much a full-strength team, apart from the goalkeeper by India.

Speaker 5 Because, you know, Koi Mainu playing with

Speaker 5 Casumiro is what I think Tenaga envisaged in pre-season until Mainu got injured. But, I mean,

Speaker 5 as I wrote in a piece

Speaker 5 that went in the paper today, United remained just a collection of individuals, whereas Newport.

Speaker 5 What Newport did actually is they fell for the move that United try and score from every time, which is overloud down one side, ball played across, someone shoots in from the cutback. Yeah.

Speaker 5 And United did did that twice and then they kept trying to do it and eventually newport thought do you know what they're doing they're doing this cutback thing and started cutting out the moves so then the man united uh forward line all blonde by the way fell out with each other and they all start you know digging each other out and

Speaker 5 uh this casemiro and mainu uh dream team gets out muscled in midfield by Newport County and you know they scored a goal with you know took a deflection or whatever suddenly you're there thinking this is an fa cup shock of all shocks though it isn't really a shock that this manchester united team could go through this um and yeah they got away with it in the end but the celebrations from anthony and rasmus hoyland were not anthony felt like it was a world cup semi-final yeah it wasn't it not

Speaker 5 right not really befitting of you know just slotting away newport and getting in a coach and going out back to manchester there i saw sir dave brelsford there actually i i walked past past him.

Speaker 5 There are many more gains than marginal to be made for Manchester United. Let's credit Newport though.
They played really, really well.

Speaker 5 Manager Graeme Cochlan, an Irishman, great quotes after, you know, were you dreaming you were going to do it? He just said, yeah, of course I was. And also spoke very well about.

Speaker 5 Premier League clubs wanting to get rid of replays. And he spoke actually to something Jonathan was talking about how players at that level, obviously, that's League Two.

Speaker 5 This is their chance to play in those in the FA Cup grants them the chance, and the Premier League clubs want to take that away.

Speaker 5 And he said, you've got big squads, you've got big money, have the replays, please. It's what our club needs.
So, yeah,

Speaker 5 enjoyed going there. Rodney Parade, great fun.

Speaker 5 Well done, Newport County. Manchester United continue to be, well, you know what word I'm going to use.

Speaker 4 Yeah, those watching on the BBC, they have some good lower league appreciative groaning from Danny Murphy. He's slightly out of the Gary Neville playbook.

Speaker 4 Pete, amongst others, saying, seeing as Anthony appears to have found his level, which League Two side should sign him in the summer? Barry, I wanted to ask you about Marcus Rashford, Barry.

Speaker 4 Reported ill for training on Friday, hours after apparently being pictured at a nightclub in Belfast.

Speaker 4 He apparently attended Thompson's Garage nightclub on Thursday before flying home by private jet on Friday.

Speaker 4 He went to Northern Ireland to visit his former teammate, Roshan Williams, who recently signed for Lahn FC.

Speaker 4 Ten Hag said Rashford had stayed at Carrington to train as he recovers.

Speaker 4 He reported ill, and the rest is an internal matter. Because normally we are very much, look, players should be able to go and live their lives.

Speaker 4 Taking a private jet to go to a nightclub in Belfast seems does seem a stretch, doesn't it?

Speaker 4 When you're not really at the top of your game, I don't know how good this nightclub is, I confess.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, my clubbing days are long, long behind me.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just wonder, like, did he stop off at a chippy en route to the private, the airstrip to get, like, a snack box or a couple of big dirty burgers?

Speaker 1 It's not his first indiscretion of that kind this season.

Speaker 1 I would be of a mind, by all means, go disco dancing if you want to,

Speaker 1 but you've got to turn up for work in the morning, no matter what. your walk of life or what what your profession.
And it's if you're an underperforming player in an underperforming team

Speaker 1 uh it's it's not a good look and it's Max's own professionalism and he's not a kid anymore but I don't want to be that guy who's sanctimoniously tutting someone for you know staying out too late or drinking too much I don't know if Marcus Rashford is a drinker or not

Speaker 1 maybe

Speaker 1 he he left the nightclub and went to the gym to pump some iron like like like the kids are doing these days. But

Speaker 1 I have heard that actually, you know, young people, they don't drink, they just go and take steroids and pump iron, which is interesting, you know, whatever floats your boat.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it's not a good look, is it, Marcus?

Speaker 5 Do they all take steroids though? I don't know.

Speaker 5 Some of them just might, you know, go to the gym. I have seen a sort of late-night gym thing, but

Speaker 5 are steroids necessary for that? Or is that?

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's not really my scene, John.
Mine is, Barry. You may know, you may have noticed it.

Speaker 4 Whereas I'm juiced up to my eyeballs

Speaker 1 on the Royds.

Speaker 4 Thompson's Garage is a bona fide Belfast clubbing institution operating seven nights a week, featuring some of the best DJs and musicians from around the world.

Speaker 4 As Belfast's longest-running city centre nightclub with over 29 years in the game, the club has played host to some of the biggest artists in the industry, including, here we go,

Speaker 4 MK, Nina Kraviz, Eats Everything, Zane Lowe, okay, I've heard of him, Alan Fitzpatrick, Red Axes, Errol Alkin, Jared Janssen, and many more. If you said they were the, you know,

Speaker 4 their current centre midfield for Plymouth, I'd have said fair enough.

Speaker 5 And I know

Speaker 5 people will know this, but Errol Alkin is

Speaker 5 a producer, produced Duran Duran's last album, I believe. But he is also...

Speaker 5 the cousin of the guy who played Roland off Grange Hill.

Speaker 1 Well, apparently Marcus went out two nights in a row. And I did remember, I heard the place he was in on the Wednesday night, I think it was, and I did remember it.

Speaker 1 It's gone out of my head now, but I did remember it from my days

Speaker 1 compiling the fortnightly gig guide for Hot Press magazine in Dublin. That's a long time ago.
So

Speaker 1 these nightclubs in Belfast, you have to take your hat off to them for the longevity, if nothing else.

Speaker 5 If I could describe Ten Hague's expression when he was asked three or four questions about that,

Speaker 5 he is really not very happy with Marcus Rashford. And I would expect not to see Rashford in the team for quite a while because

Speaker 5 he's obviously not happy with him. And deservedly so, if that's what's happened.

Speaker 4 I thought of being in Fez Club in Cambridge when I was 21, just dancing, you know, just standing in the dance room and then seeing an England international football.

Speaker 1 I'm going, that's really,

Speaker 4 I don't know what you're doing here, but anyway, happy hour closes in 10 minutes. So let's get 30 Long Island iced teas and line them all up at the table and enjoy them.

Speaker 5 I once saw Chris Waddle and David Hurst

Speaker 5 in Sheffield. That was good.

Speaker 1 Me and a pal took on

Speaker 1 Lee Sharp and Nikki Bott in a game of doubles playing pool in a

Speaker 1 nightclub in Dublin called Lily's Bordello.

Speaker 1 We wanted to have a bet.

Speaker 1 Or Lee Sharp said, you know, do you want to have money on this? So we suggested, well, we'll each put up a week of our wages against a week of your wages. And Lee didn't go for that.

Speaker 4 Oh, really? I was just waiting for Jonathan to come in to tell him all the Maidstone players. Eddie got Lee Legend.

Speaker 1 I just want to know who won.

Speaker 7 Who won that? Who won that? Who won the match, Barry?

Speaker 1 Myself and my mate Fiakra did.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 4 Oh, many congratulations. Thank you.
And that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll begin with that crowd trouble at the Hawthorne's.

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Speaker 4 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Look, the first Black Country Derby with fans for 12 years between West Brom and Wolves.
Wolves won 2-0.

Speaker 4 Soon after their second goal in the 80th minute, fighting erupted in the Holford's lane stand. The players were sent down the tunnel.
The game was suspended for more than 35 minutes.

Speaker 4 It was in an area where a lot of the players' families tend to sit. And I think there was Wolves fans or a couple of Wolves fans in that area who celebrated that goal.

Speaker 4 West Brom player Carl Bartley was seen getting his family from the stands. There were five arrests during the game, plus one beforehand.
At least one fan was taken away on a stretcher.

Speaker 4 Another with blood pouring from his head was escorted away with his arms held behind his back. A ballboy was hit on the head by a plastic bottle.

Speaker 4 West Brom have pledged to ban for life any fan culpable in the fighting.

Speaker 4 The club will work with West Midlands Police and the FA to fully investigate the incidents which resulted in suspension of the game.

Speaker 4 Any individual involved in the disorder will be subject to a club ban in addition to potential criminal investigation.

Speaker 4 I guess, John, what is

Speaker 4 interesting is it's so rare seeing this now that it shocks you compared to sort of what football was like when I was growing up.

Speaker 4 I mean, it wasn't often that games were suspended for this long, but there was an air of this

Speaker 1 all the time.

Speaker 4 And there isn't now, which I guess is a positive, but it's pretty grim.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, it's grim. And we've talked about this before.
And I always, you find, you know, about football. Come on.
It is only a game. And we all take it seriously.

Speaker 5 But are you really going to have to go home to your wife and explain that?

Speaker 5 uh yeah i'm going to be doing a two stretch for hitting someone because they wear a shirt looks like a tesco bag because i'm a wolves fan You know,

Speaker 5 that's the type of mentality that's involved there.

Speaker 5 I mean, you know, there were other incidents this weekend at Port Vale. You had

Speaker 5 that lunatic gets on the pitch, runs after the referee, slowed down. I noticed when he came towards the Stewards, referee showed a clean pair of heels as he ran down the...

Speaker 5 So with that one, that maybe speaks to a bit of the targeting of referees you get in the media, I suppose, with people thinking you can go for referees. But the Westbrom Wolves thing seemed like

Speaker 5 an old-style rumble between fans all getting a bit excited. When those games aren't played so often, then the tension boils up and it becomes,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 being someone that fights at a football match is all about a match of identity. It's about, you know, showing you're one of the lads and all that type of thing.

Speaker 5 Beyond that sort of, you know, Danny Dyer's Football Factory stuff, which also is one of the most hilarious programs of all times.

Speaker 5 It is, it's funny, but it's a bit sad and attacking players' families. Well, come on.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I wonder, Barry,

Speaker 4 and I've thought about this a lot. Like, one of the things that we love about football is the tribalism, right? We can compare it to other sports.

Speaker 4 Something that makes it great is that people are so hugely passionate. And like,

Speaker 4 obviously, most of us know where the line is, right? And I'm with John, right? It's just, it's just a game, right? It is just a game.

Speaker 4 But like, we also like really love, oh, Galatasarai away, welcome to hell, you know, these kind of things, like this, these extreme, oh, look at these ultras, aren't this sort of mad, football has this thing.

Speaker 4 And like, can you celebrate tribalism without expecting it at times to just go over that line?

Speaker 4 Because if it, obviously, if you move the line back further, then it becomes, you know, like, I don't know, if I think about Australian rules football, they all, everyone's, as far as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, everyone just sits together and has a nice time and that's nice but it isn't what we go to football for

Speaker 1 yeah I mean in Ireland

Speaker 1 generally

Speaker 1 say at a hurling match or Gaelic football match there's no segregation of fans and

Speaker 1 at inter-county level everyone generally tends to behave themselves but when you go down sort of to towards club level the

Speaker 1 things can often boil over and there's fights, referees get attacked and on one famous occasion, bundled into the boot of a car and driven up a mountain.

Speaker 1 And it's funny, you hear the stories, it's funny, but it's not funny for the people it's happening to or the people who get arrested or assaulted and whatnot.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm not going to sit here and say that looking at a man,

Speaker 1 a boiler, the West Brom mascot, you know, dressed as a boiler,

Speaker 1 appealing for calm yesterday, that's funny. It is, you know, there's no way.

Speaker 1 But seeing someone being led away with blood pouring out of a wound in their head is not particularly funny.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 yeah, things will occasionally boil over. But our mate Justin Moorehouse has a good routine about

Speaker 1 tribalism in football. The football fans, they're all the same and they're all interested in the same thing.

Speaker 1 But the only difference between, you know, they're separated by 20 miles or 10 miles miles or 30 miles, and that's the only difference between them. And they get

Speaker 1 it, it wouldn't be in my nature to get wound up at a game. You know, I if my team is doing badly, I sit and I seize, I don't get particularly animated, and I, you know,

Speaker 1 haven't swung a punch or things since I was a kid. But

Speaker 1 as you say, it's it's happened so rarely that we are quite shocked when it does boil over. And I suppose that is a good thing.

Speaker 4 Let's go through a few of the other games. Man City beat Tottenham, Jonathan, on Friday night.
It was Builders the Tire of the Round. It couldn't be more exciting.

Speaker 4 Look at these two teams who just go at each other, and

Speaker 4 it was absolutely terrible, wasn't it? And like Tottenham didn't show up at all. The goal, which I actually thought was totally fine, but there was some controversy around the goal.

Speaker 4 Do you think Vicario had a case there at all?

Speaker 7 Not really, to be honest. I think it was.

Speaker 7 I suppose in the sort of VAR age, where

Speaker 7 everything's a bit murky, isn't it? Every goal is questionable. And

Speaker 7 in that sort of sense, maybe. But

Speaker 7 I kind of just want to brush over VAR.

Speaker 7 So I'm going to say no.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 No, that's fine. I wondered if he could have just had a helping hand from a teammate.
Like, couldn't you stick a, you know, you've got, is it Ruben Diaz, right, on you? Just get Romero to stand up.

Speaker 7 I mean, they could have defended it better. Yeah,

Speaker 7 that's a different point. But I don't don't think it was like hugely controversial.

Speaker 1 But Ruben Diaz had been targeting him all game. So he could have, if he had a problem with it, raised it with the referee, got a teammate to help him.

Speaker 1 But I don't think Ruben Diaz did anything wrong, and he just needed to be stronger. Like he got a good

Speaker 1 two hands to the ball, so just flap it elsewhere.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, I think my high point of the game was Pep Guardiola getting booked for sarcastically applauding and then trying to sort of carry off the fact that he was pretending to applaud his team by like continuing to applaud.

Speaker 4 It was really funny. Anyway, City are through.
Luton are through. There'd be Everton getting to the fifth round, the FA Cup for only the second time in

Speaker 4 11 years. Trash account says, Gliche alert, probably, but Luton continue to blow me away.
They're so gutsy, never give up.

Speaker 4 I can't remember wanting a team to stay up in the Premier League, have a great run of the cup so much as them. Amazing team and spirit.
And it's true, John, isn't it? Like a brilliant result for them.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I've seen a lot of Luton and you never fail to be taken by yeah that the energy that they're putting in uh and the spirit that rob edwards has instilled in them that's a bad result for everton you know i mean they need cut revenue they need these things and to get to lose in the last minute it's just everton isn't it because you know with their points deduction and whatever else is coming up ahead from the latest Premier League thing, it's a very bleak season ahead for Everton.

Speaker 5 But then again, they've got a new stadium to look forward to, too. As an Evertonian supporting friend of mine said to me yesterday, to play Barnsley in.

Speaker 4 Yeah, with all due respect, of course.

Speaker 5 Absolutely. I have massive respect for Barnsley, yeah.

Speaker 4 Any other results you want to pick out, Baz?

Speaker 1 There were quite a few really good goals in various ties, and I haven't time to touch on them all. But one thing that slightly got on my wick was Sheffield United got gubbed 5-2 by Brighton.

Speaker 1 And after the game, Chris Wilder had a big moan at the ref.

Speaker 1 And I thought he was really poor. They've put him on for our game again to see if he's all right for the Premier League.
The ref was Sonny Singill,

Speaker 1 and I just thought that was completely unnecessary criticism. I don't think he did anything wrong.
I'm not sure what Wilder's problem was.

Speaker 1 He didn't highlight any particular issues he had with the referee.

Speaker 1 And, you know, Sheffield United are currently in the process of proving that they're not all right for the Premier League. So, you know, why not test referees on them? But

Speaker 1 I don't think that's helpful at all. And it leads to this culture of ref bashing.
You know, Sheffield United are pretty crap. Chris Wilder has done very little to improve them since he arrived.

Speaker 1 And for him to come out of a 5-2 defeat at home and have a go at the ref, who, as I say, didn't do anything wrong that I noticed.

Speaker 1 I just thought it was

Speaker 1 poorer from Chris. I expect better.

Speaker 5 I was going to say, Jaden Anthony scored a fine goal for

Speaker 5 the leads, didn't he? And

Speaker 5 he celebrated

Speaker 5 with tribute to his mum, who died quite recently.

Speaker 5 And then,

Speaker 5 this is so bad, isn't it? Then you get that the referee has to book him for, and he gives him a yellow card and you just think

Speaker 5 you know

Speaker 5 common sense refereeing the referees should be given the opportunity to use their discretion some sense of empathy yeah rather than this directive because i mean obviously he was he didn't want to do it but it's it looked bad it looked bad you know goal goal scorer and book him oh but yeah it was it was a great moment great goal Wonderful, absolutely wonderful goal.

Speaker 4 Eunice Atkins for Leicester was brilliant as well. I mean, yeah, I did like their opener.
Mark Albrighton to Jamie Vardy was very 20-15.

Speaker 5 Old school, old school.

Speaker 1 But Leicester's.

Speaker 5 Mark Albright and I wrote the little preview. Only 34.
Yeah, there's still, there's still, yeah, I mean, he's been around forever. It really has.

Speaker 4 Is he still underrated?

Speaker 4 Bournemouth were 5-0 up at halftime, and obviously it finished. Normally, 5-0 half-time is 6-1 full-time, but they just kept it at 5-0.

Speaker 4 So the draw has been been done blackburn or wrexham who play tonight play newcastle chelsea or villa versus leeds or plymouth bournemouth leicester liverpool versus watford or southampton bristol city or forest take on manchester united wolves v brighton sheffie wansdale coventry against maidstone luton versus manchester city um a bit of any other business uh matt gibson says dear max and team long time listener enjoyed your live show in brighton i've never been in contact but it's very rare to have the opportunity to relay something remotely useful from my degree in linguistics back in the 1990s i just heard the exchange in the pod about Eric Dyer's Steve McLaren moment and your use, Max, of the Cockney accent whenever in a London cab.

Speaker 4 I can confirm this is a sociolinguistic phenomenon called accommodation.

Speaker 4 Essentially, people accommodate their speech and communication style, including accent, due to the influence of social factors such as gender, culture, ethnicity, age, occupational status.

Speaker 4 I'm very aware when I do this myself, my wife is also a very good case study. There you go.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Matt.

Speaker 4 Mark says, if the Football Weekly pundits, not just today's team, are all entered into the next season of Traitors, who would make the best traitor?

Speaker 4 Barry, who do you think?

Speaker 1 Jonathan Lew.

Speaker 1 There we are.

Speaker 1 A while ago.

Speaker 1 Devious, scheming, underhand, treacherous to his core, I think.

Speaker 4 Do you think Wilson would be good? Wilson might be quite good.

Speaker 1 Maybe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll go with Johnny Lew.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 A while back,

Speaker 4 we were discussing Aberdeen Angus steakhouses.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 I can't remember why. It may have been because of Salt Bay.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 I think I said

Speaker 1 I don't know anyone who's ever eaten in one, but they always appear to be full. Yes, that's right.
That's right.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's right. Well, anyway, they have slid into my DMs, Barry.
Hi, Max. Hope you're well, says, at Angus Steakhouse.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 4 So our ears have been burning from a recent recent episode of your Football Weekly podcast. We would love to get you into one of our restaurants to try the world's best steak.
It's no joke.

Speaker 4 We teamed up with Australian steak producers Jack's Creek to curate the Jack's Creek Black Angus steak menu.

Speaker 4 We'd love to invite yourself, Barry, Will and John, that was the lineup to our Leicester Square restaurant to try the new menu on us, of course. Would you be interested?

Speaker 4 Are we now in the pocket of big steak? Can we accept the free steak, Barry? What do you think? we obviously can't speak on will unwinn's behalf but should we meet in leicester square for a

Speaker 4 jack's creek black angus steak well i'm not sure what the

Speaker 1 well i i have a fair idea what the guardian policy is on it expect we might not be able to accept this yeah and uh i i i'm not sure we we should it would be ethically correct to to

Speaker 1 take

Speaker 5 angus steakhouses up on their offer but can if we just walked in there to show that people have walked in there and then walked out, would that prove something half an hour later?

Speaker 1 Sated, sated, smacking lips,

Speaker 4 meat dripping down our faces.

Speaker 1 It's a bold claim to say that they have the world's best steak. I'd like to absolutely

Speaker 1 have my doubts.

Speaker 4 Well, maybe we should go and pay for it with our own money.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Don't be so bloody daft. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Listen, we welcome all we welcome all listeners. So thank you to Mr.
and Mrs. Angus for getting in touch.

Speaker 4 Finally, Aaron says, Good morning, Max, Barry, and the gang. I'm a huge fan of the podcast.
Had a great time at your live show in London last year.

Speaker 4 I discovered the pod during the dark times of empty football stadiums during the Pan E D, which is what he calls the pandemic. That's a very odd way to describe it.
I haven't missed an episode since.

Speaker 4 My friend Phil is also a huge fan.

Speaker 4 I got married last year, and imagine my surprise when I listened to the pod the Monday after my wedding and did not hear one of of Barry's classic wedding well wishes.

Speaker 4 Phil sadly let me down as he couldn't be bothered to write into the pod on my behalf.

Speaker 4 To show that I am the far better friend than Phil, I'm writing in to ask Barry, could he please wish Phil a happy birthday as it was his birthday at the weekend and he has no plans to get married anytime soon.

Speaker 4 Lots of love, Aaron.

Speaker 1 Happy birthday, Phil. I hope you have many, many more of them.

Speaker 1 There we are.

Speaker 4 Thanks. And that'll do for today.
Thank you, John.

Speaker 5 Cheers, Max. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 Thanks, Jonathan.

Speaker 7 Thank you, Max.

Speaker 4 Cheers, Barry.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Bate.

Speaker 4 Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray. Our executive producer is Christian Bennett.
Premier League Week, so we'll be back on Wednesday.

Speaker 4 This is The Guardian.