Goals galore on a thrilling weekend in the Premier League – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, an absolute corker at the Etihad.

Spurs turned Spursey and then back again against Manchester City.

We'll try and discuss the game and not focus too much on whistle happy Simon Hooper.

Liverpool bring the vibes to Anfield to break Fulham Hearts.

Are they the biggest challengers to City's inevitable title?

Or is it Arsenal who kept the Jeopardy going against Monday Night Football's Gary O'Neill's wolves?

Manchester United are back in crisis mode.

What do you expect when you have to travel by automobile rather than plane?

Tis the season, we have our first sacking.

Poor Heckingbottom is gone after Ollie McBurney fails to keep his elbows to himself.

Will Perennial Man under pressure Steve Cooper follow after Forrest got diched at the city ground?

Elsewhere, how far into the bag do England have the Euros?

A favourable group and a tasty one for Scotland as the draw is made.

Team GB are still in with a shout of making it to the Olympics.

Bizarrely, only a home nation stands in their way.

We'll discuss all of that, plus we'll have your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

So for the more observant among you, you might have noticed I'm not Max Rushton.

Barry Glendedding is also absent today.

They've both gone on a pilgrimage of self-reflection following recent revelations about Max's talling woes.

His Sydney hotel room anecdote triggered Barry's Munich moment.

They will return transformed, better, more self-aware.

Lessons will be learned.

A root and branch review will be carried out.

And who knows, maybe even Sony will produce a documentary on their journey.

On the panel today, Jonathan Wilson, good morning.

Morning, Hayden.

Very well, thank you, Lucy Ward.

Hello.

Hi, Rob.

And Barney Ronnie, good morning.

Hi, Robin.

No, I think it's great that you've taken over from Max.

He had a good run.

All quite good things come to an end.

And

while we should remember him, we should also just move on very quickly and never talk about him again.

Okay, yeah, that's usually how these things work, isn't it?

This is very much interim, though.

I'm very proud to be having the interim

on the graphic, yeah.

Oh, I thought this was it.

Oh, no, oh, well, I can't wait.

It's going to be great to get Max.

Great to have you here, but really looking forward to getting Max back.

But not Barry.

Is this the airing of grievances bit then that we're doing right at the top?

That's every week.

Yeah.

Well, let's start then.

It's been a fantastic weekend of football, starting, what, with last night, Manchester City against Spurs Barney.

You were there, mate?

Yeah, I was there.

And it was a really good game.

I mean, I'm sure it was good on Telly as well, but I've kind of been...

resistant to the kind of

what you might call the ange nonces you know the kind of oh mate he's so emotionally intelligent, you know, he's so he's just he's just a bloke, you know, and you kind of because everyone's been so gushing, you kind of want it to fail.

That's not, I don't want it to fail, but there's some part of you that quite would enjoy that narrative arc.

But I just thought that was actually really good yesterday, and he did change.

He played the four fullbacks in defense, and not many defensive players.

And you thought, oh God, this is going to be a disaster.

You know, they're going to play this high line against Doku and Haaland, and they're going to lose 7-1.

But he did, they adapted and they actually defended really deep at times, ridiculously deep.

But you saw the difference between a centre-half and a fullback trying to decide where should your starting position be.

By Foden's goal was basically on the goal line where he scored it from.

But they really stuck with it.

And I thought it was really impressive to score two equalizers.

I thought the attacking was really coherent.

And it was very logical to play like that.

It's like, what strength do we have?

We have really quick attackers against some quite, not that quick city defenders.

That's our strength.

That's our only chance so it would be illogical not to play to that and and it wasn't sort of naive gung-ho attacking it was just a really sensible thing to do because if you just try and you know play out deep block with var you know var has meant deep defending is just a much much harder to do because in the end you're going to give something away so i just thought it was really smart and i for the first time i actually thought ah good on good on your hand she's just a great blike with great vibes and all that kind of i mean i'm normally very anti-australian but and Australianism generally.

But it was, no, I thought it was really impressive and, you know, good on him.

Did we lose a bit of respect for him, though, Jonathan?

Especially in that, you know, after half-time, he takes off Hill, he brings on Hoibier, the coward.

He said he was going to stick to his principles.

I mean, if his principles were playing Brian Hill at all moments, then I think you'd have to question that.

You can change.

You can make tweaks without sort of it being a wholesale recantation of Jange philosophy.

I mean,

I think what Barney says is right, that there was no point playing Eric Dyer as the only sort of senior fit centre-back in the squad because Holland is better than Dyer at everything.

So you can't play High Line because Dyer is slow on the turn.

Holland probably beat him in the air more often than not.

So at least by playing fullbacks there, although it does create certain issues, you've got that mobility.

You can play the High Line.

And if a ball gets played over top, they have got the pace to get back.

But I think almost the more significant thing was the fact he kept the 3-4 was up at all times, which then forced Squadioland to change, and Akanji had to drop deeper.

By doing that,

Alva's role has been a slight sort of underlying issue for City this season.

They have to find another midfielder from somewhere, which is why Akanji or more ideally stones would step up into midfield.

And that midfield was vacant.

I think Spurs found it relatively easy to play out.

So

the tactical side of it,

I thought was really interesting.

And I don't know, I mean, maybe we're kind of reading too much into this.

I mean, City did hit the woodwork twice.

Holland did miss that great chance.

It was, the XG was what, 2.6 to 0.5, I think.

So City could have won it quite easily.

But it sort of feels quite significant.

They've now drawn the last three league games, let in two against Leipzig.

Defensively, they're clearly not as good this season.

You know, they're letting in, I think, 1.14 goals per game in the league as opposed to sort of a 0.85 standard over the last three seasons.

There are defensive issues there, and of course, Rodri now suspended for Villa on Wednesday.

Villa, who scored more goals at home than anybody apart from Bayern Munich across Europe this season, suddenly that game looks really exciting.

It does.

Doku also picked up a knock, and so Rodri's out, and also Jack Grealish is going to be suspended for that one too.

I got a bit ahead of myself.

It was a brilliant game.

So Son scored twice, first in the right end after six minutes, a really good breakaway, then an own goal.

Phil Phil Foden then scored to make it 2-1.

But after the break, Lucy, I don't know if you were watching on Sky, but Gary Neville said at 2-1,

Cissy are looking sloppy and complacent.

I'm not sure if you agreed with him, but it kind of came to pass a little bit after that.

Yeah,

I think it did.

I think that they've they rely on sort of full control of particularly central areas, city, because obviously, you know, they attack quite a lot, but I think they've lost that.

I think because of Stone's not being there, because losing Gundawan, they haven't really got a creative player in there.

And I think the ones that they've signed to replace have not particularly got themselves going yet.

But a couple of points from that.

Grealish definitely didn't fancy a Villa Park return because when you get a yellow card for kicking the ball away, you know you're going on and getting a yellow card and missing going back to Villa.

Definitely.

That's certainly what I

thought.

And I wish I was a Spurs fan, to be honest, because just going and now watching a team who do that.

I mean, he sort of tweaked a little bit he did he didn't really change what he did obviously just a little few tweaks with you know the because of the injuries but sitting back really sitting back all the way through versus city is not guaranteed to work anyway and it just tells the players if you keep changing that you don't really believe what you've been telling them since since july poster koglu it's not just about his players it's about the training ground it's about how people will support him because he can connect connect with people.

So I can imagine how good this first training ground is simply because of the way that he is a proper people person.

Well, Max isn't here, so we do need an ange apologist.

Just for balance, because I do work for the BBC, I watched back the live show from Brighton last week, and Johnny Lou described Ange Postacoglu as a pathetic Aussie PE teacher.

Thoughts, anyone?

I think that says more about Johnny than it does anybody else.

Yeah, strong words.

And he also came out on the pod and said that.

So after that, as we mentioned, Manchester City, a little bit sloppy.

The Celso scored a great goal.

And then Barney was Eve Basuma sort of turning into traffic for a fairly simple one for Jack Grealish after that.

And then Kulasevsky with the, well, what we loved that he flattened, absolutely flattened Ake by getting to that header.

I think it did come off his shoulder.

I mean, I thought it kind of was one of those ones that sort of head onto shoulder and sort of leaped in.

But it was

brilliant.

I really enjoyed, I don't know if you could see rashalison's i actually thought rashalison the scored first because he went completely mental when it went in and i think it was a big relief for him but i was interested also by the the the stuff at the end um i mean harlan was horland was horland um was was uh really really cross i've never seen him so cross the interaction with um laselso was actually quite funny because the salsa i don't think really understood what he was talking about he just looked completely unbothered and he's just really quite small guy next to harlan it was quite funny watching that happen the referee see in the stadium we thought at the time that it must have been offside um with the incident where the referee waved play on after a foul on Haaland who then played a great through pass to Grealish and you thought okay he's in here and then he stopped play and we thought that must be because it's offside and there's no advantage but that wasn't the case he just changed his mind the referee and so it was it was a poor decision but I think it's been slightly overdone since because it was an opportunity it was an opening,

he wasn't clear through on goal.

There were three players running back with him, something might have happened, who knows?

Greedich isn't Doku, he's not going to run away from those players.

And I think with Haaland, there was some frustration, probably, because he's a very good player, with his own performance, because he did miss two open goals.

He probably felt quite frustrated.

He did make Grealich's

goal with a really nice little bit of play, but he didn't have a very good game.

There's times where you look at him and you think, well, they're basically playing not with 10 men because his presence is a massive distraction for the defence but it's like you've got it's like when one of those riderless horses wins the grand national there's this thing there that's not really doing anything but is visible um and the rest of his team do have to make up the fact that he's in many ways not a very good footballer despite being arguably the ballon d'ol winner you know he doesn't he's very uneven in what he does although having said that the movement and the run and the pass for greedish asgar were were really good, and I think he's getting better at that.

But I think he was really frustrated with himself, and I don't think we should be distracted by that one refereeing decision.

City could have won that game quite easily if they'd taken the chances, and they were probably frustrated by that.

And to be fair, in his press conference, Pep Gaglio didn't really talk about it, he just got it out of his system.

He said, Yeah, it was one of those things.

We'll look at other things after that game, not the referee, which I thought was fair enough.

I think, well, he kind of had a little dig at Mikel Arteta, didn't he?

Saying, I'm not going to do a Mikel Arteta comment.

So, yeah, so he managed to get that in at least.

On ex-Harland wrote WTF above a clip of that incident.

He'll probably get charged by the FA for that.

On City, though, so 10 goals they concede in the last four games.

Barney, do you feel like that, you know, usually Pep Guardiola kind of figures these things out?

Like last season, he did the sort of putting John Stones into midfield.

Obviously, he's a big absence.

Are we still expecting them to figure this out and run away with it maybe in the new year?

Well, they often have a slow autumn, don't they?

And part of that is related to why they succeed because Guardiola doesn't let the team stand still.

You know, he changes all the time to keep himself ahead, and that takes time.

Although, I would say last year, I think they were helped by the break, you know, the World Cup.

Holland wasn't there.

Guardiola worked with him a lot, and

that was a pretty useful thing if you're re-gearing a team.

They were really good after about a month after the World Cup, they really started playing well.

Um, so I don't think they're finished.

I mean, they still, if you looked at their bench, um, I claimed that every single player on their bench would have started for Spurs.

Um,

some people probably disagree, maybe the goalie.

Um, I think Oscar Bolb would probably be in the Spurs team, and you know, the rest of them are just really good players.

So, I don't think they're quite in crisis.

I don't think we can have two simultaneous Manchester crisis, can we?

Or maybe we can.

Can you focus?

Yeah, it would to anfield then liverpool four fulham three um some incredible goals in this game particularly um alexis mcalister i very much enjoyed marco silver um afterwards saying that he wouldn't do that again if he tried for two hours which it would have been i love that if silver had kind of led him out to the pitch and said go on try that again um it was it was absolutely glorious um

Kind of similarities here, Jonathan, maybe that Liverpool, you know, they got over the line, but not much control, perhaps again?

Yeah, I mean, we could easily this morning have been talking about City winning a seven goal thriller and Liverpool being frustrated by drawing 3-3, and then the lead table would look slightly different, and we'd still be assuming this is City walking away at the title.

So I think Liverpool got away with it, but

the great thing I think you see is quite often with Liverpool is even when they're a bit flawed at the back,

their capacity just to keep going and to physically overwhelm teams late in games, which they lost last season, that does seem to be back.

And I think when they got to 3-3,

you sort of expected them to get the winner then.

I mean, they had, what, four minutes plus injury time to go, I think.

And it came very quickly.

But you sort of sensed that Fulham were out on their feet

and that

they would get at least one more good opportunity.

But yeah, I mean,

four really great strikes from Liverpool.

And they can't be relying on great strikes.

They will dry up at some point.

But Salah seemed a bit off it yesterday, I thought, which, you know, he's been great this season and he just

wasn't quite there.

Well, match the day they said, yeah, he was off it.

He's looking for his 200th goal, his 150th Premier League goal.

Darwin Nunes was slightly off it, although sporting at cracking.

How can you tell if Darwin Nuny is on it or off it?

What was he off?

Did he just have a fairly unremarkable, competent game when nothing extraordinarily weird happened?

Yeah, that's the measure of him, isn't it?

Val's going to comment on his cracking plats.

I mean, that was.

He strangely looked, Robin, like someone I used to play with, which is a little bit worrying.

Well, you know, Jill Scott used to say someone used to do her plats.

I like to think of someone in the Liverpool dressing room doing them for him.

Who would that be?

It was Siobhan Chamberlain.

Siobhan Chamberlain was the plat queen, so perhaps she went round and Nunes' house and did his.

Expertly done.

But yeah, so it's hard on Fulham, wasn't it, Barney?

And especially when, you know, Bobby Deckold over re puts them ahead in the 80th minute and they come away with nothing.

It's been a slightly strange season for them, actually, hasn't it?

Yeah, it has.

They're really quite a good team, but they've had a few sort of players coming in and out, and they will be fine.

But I think they've slightly kind of underachieved.

It looks like they're in a bit more trouble than I think they realistically are.

What I really enjoyed in this game was

Trenton Alexander Arnold free kick.

Just like the skill and the bravery and the vision and the everything required to do that the years and years of practice the precision the ability to block out the moment and it's an own goal yes we just call that an own goal to burnt their own goal sorry your name's not even

I mean the footballs can be great sometimes like in what sense is that an own goal

well if he wasn't there if the goalkeeper wasn't there would it have gone in Well, it was much more likely not to have gone in if Trent Alexander Arnold wasn't there.

If you

had to take one person out of that equation to stop that happening, probably he would be more key to the moment.

But it's to do with betting, isn't it?

That's why it has to be an own goal.

Oh, I didn't know that.

I'm so naive.

I think so, yeah.

I think so.

Oh, right.

I mean, I have to say, on a Fulham point of view, I think Tom Kearney's made a difference in the last couple of games.

I think he started against Wolves when Palinio was injured.

He doesn't tend to play that much, but he came on a sub and made a difference for Fulham.

Again, he's got...

He doesn't sort of move as quickly as you would say the modern centre midfielder, but he's got a lot of game craft.

And I do have, I'm a little biased because he was one of the kids at Leeds that got released for being too small at 16, with me shouting in the background.

But he's still a child and he will grow.

And he obviously is now six foot two.

And I, you know, I don't like to say I was right, but I was right.

But he's gone on to have a really good career and always makes a difference for Phil.

I mean, I think he's not like a

bull in a china shop, like, you know, is it Harrison Reed that plays?

But Pliny is obviously is brilliant but i think when he does come on i think he he made deco the dover reeds goal and got man of the match on monday and i think sometimes there's a there's a place for he can't get around the pitch type centre midfielders and when this certainly when they've got that sort of much game craft still astounds me that so many football clubs don't remember that you know kids do tend to grow it it is madness but you know i i think quite a lot is you know it just depends i mean it also depends on what the first team manager or the first team ethos is, whatever, if they have got one.

But, you know, if you've got somebody who can control and pass the ball better than anybody in the group, but he's still a child and he's very small, then you sort of give him a little bit more time.

Messy, messy, for instance.

Yeah, that's the elite example, of course.

Chelsea 3, Brighton 2.

John Bruin saying, why does every Brighton game seem to end in a ruck?

And I think that's just the vibe for Roberto Deserbi.

He just loves it.

Yeah.

you know, a lot of a bit of pushing, shoving after the full-time whistle, Potatino having a go at the officials.

And this seems to be a theme once again.

Chelsea getting over the line, Barney, and

another player sent off.

Do they have a discipline problem, do we think, maybe?

I think they have many problems.

Is it discipline?

I mean, there's just so many, there are so many players revolving in and out of the team, and it's such an ill-fitting assort.

This is a new idea of how to build a team, which isn't building a team at all.

It's not surprising things get lost.

I thought the Connor Gallagher's tackle on Billy Gilmore was actually quite-I mean, in slow motion, it looked quite vicious.

I don't know if it was a kind of old teammates thing, or I'll show you.

I don't know, he seems like a sort of he's quite an aggressive player, isn't he, Gallagher?

Yeah, yeah, he does get stuck in, um, but it kind of went that little bit beyond I'm gonna take the ball into kind of, and while I do it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna knock you over.

Chelsea seem to win a lot of games but still seem to be you know closer to the relegation zone than the they're just such a confusing team and such a confusing entity.

I can't see it's really hard to see any kind of happy ending in that group of players or what they're sort of trying to do.

It seems to change all the time and I don't really understand how they won that game, but somehow they did just by throwing lots of players who can do spectacular things at a game of football.

I don't like it at at all.

I find it completely incoherent.

It's like a child playing football on a computer game, and I find it really boring, actually.

And I wonder if Pochitina can make it interesting because I always thought he was a manager who was interested in chemistry and the way players work with each other.

It just seems a very old fit, but who knows?

Give him 10 years, maybe.

It is similar though, Banny, to a child playing a computer game because it seems to be an owner playing a computer game, you know, an owner that thinks that it's easy to, oh, I can do that, what a manager does, but you know, the technical area is a lonely place,

and you'll see that managers stood in the technical area and having to make decisions.

It's all right, sort of picking them out on paper, but obviously having to do it.

I feel a little bit for Pochatino, but trying to turn an oil tanker around

with a load of different players, and that's it.

Too many players, but then too many injuries, so that you can't get anything sort of with any sort of certainty or consistency.

It's just so though they bought these players clearly as a kind of investment vehicle.

We'll buy all the young talent.

But football is not, it's not, there's no draft in football.

You don't know who the best players are.

The market is vast.

There are billions of kids all around the world who nobody knows if they're going to be any good or not.

You cannot corner the market.

All you can do is give people a chance and hope they get better and try and construct a team.

And the idea that you're going to buy up all the good players, I'm going to buy Mudruk because he's on YouTube and he looks good on YouTube it's just so stupid I mean it's just it's absolutely dunder-headed and

I don't think anything this incompetent has ever happened in sport if you put the money and the results so far I mean maybe it'll all turn around and it'll it'll turn out to be a master plan and they can disrupt football by having thought about it for 10 minutes I mean I'm all for people disrupting things but it has to be done intelligently and with some inside knowledge not just because you think you understand how business works which seems to be what's happened here um so yeah good old chelsea just thinking about who he could sign next on youtube it might be joe wicks popping out for for chelsea especially for yeah pee with joe overlooked i i will you know i'm not a betting woman but i don't think joe wicks can kick a ball straight properly that's just my yeah i think he did soccer a did he did he do something like that oh did he all right but that doesn't that still doesn't mean he can kick a ball straight is joe wicks the the the fitness bloke from essex

Yes.

Right, but he could come in as like a fitness coach.

I mean Prochet, that's actually a really good idea and if you suggested that they would definitely do it.

Yeah they would.

They should sign I show speed because he's showed speed.

I mean they would literally

be in why not you know do it do it.

It makes as much sense as anything else.

Well Enzo Fernandez got two goals, one a penalty and Levi Colwell got the other one and a very funny moment where he scored and celebrated for about three seconds then realized who he'd scored against against the team that sort of made him last season and then sort of called become.

Jonathan, Brighton are sort of,

they scored a good goal, Buona Notte, and then Jal Pedro got one right at the end to kind of make it a bit interesting.

They seem to, they've got glimpses of Brighton, haven't they?

But they're not getting there sort of for 90 minutes and

for the whole, for this season actually generally.

Is that just down to perhaps the increased schedule?

Yeah, probably.

We've seen it before with teams who've had a really good season, then Europe takes it out of them.

I mean, they've got a lot of injuries.

I know everybody's got a lot of injuries at the minute.

It sort of feels like you say it for every team.

Dunk, obviously, is suspended, which is his own fault.

So, yeah, I don't think there's anything to worry about.

I think there's, to an extent, a natural regression to the mean, but it must take it out of you.

Especially if you're Brighton, you're not used to that in any sense.

And for fans as well, if you're beating Ajax and Marseille mid-week, to then

try and raise yourself for a run-of-the-middle league game.

I know it's Chelsea, so it feels a bit more glamorous, but essentially a mid-table league game, of course there's a drop-off because it's beating Marseille and Ajax that are the exciting things.

So Brighton are struggling to raise any interest in playing Chelsea these days.

Well,

also,

if you're thinking about it.

I think you're projecting there, John.

I think you're projecting your own feelings of

disaffection onto this group of young, really enthusiastic, up-and-coming, super-talented footballers.

There's Julio Nciso.

He's just like me.

He doesn't want to see Brighton against Chelsea happen.

I mean,

I always like Julio Nciso when I was 19.

I had this similar haircut, similar aggression.

Actually, he's injured, isn't he?

He's a really big guy.

He is injured, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I have to say, I really did struggle to raise myself for West Hamby Palace yesterday.

Struggled to raise myself to get on the train to go.

Struggled to raise myself to write a piece, struggled to raise myself even to watch the second half.

It was dreadful.

More on that later.

Look forward to that, everyone.

Just one final note on this one.

So, yes, Connor Gallagher was sent off.

In the previous game, Rhys James was sent off wearing the captain's armband.

So, let's see who's going to be next.

Cassena could have gone as well, couldn't he?

I mean, he was already in a yellow, and that challenge.

I mean, it could have been a booking.

That's what I'm saying.

They've got a bit of a discipline problem.

47 cards, three red this season, the highest in the league.

But that'll do for part one.

In part two, we'll discuss the first sacking of the season.

Welcome back to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Burnley five, Shefford United nil, and that was the final straw for Paul Heckingbottom.

The 4th of December, we've had our first Premier League sacking.

Just on the game, first of all, I mean, Burnley flew out of the traps, Jay Rodriguez scoring after 15 seconds.

And Jamie says, Can we have praise for Jay Rodriguez, please still getting the goals after playing for either Burnley or Southampton since the mid 90s it seems they really went about this didn't they Lucy and Burnley is their first home win of the season it's been a miserable time and a huge huge win and confidence boost yeah I mean Jay Rodriguez makes me laugh you think you're just going to get this accent that's going to be sort of very sort of foreign and remarkable and he's got a Burnley it's just the best I love it when he when they ask you a question and they go Jay Rodriguez and And then he just talks like that.

It's so northern.

I just love it.

But yeah, Burnley, you know, I like Vincent Company, but I think that you have to get used to losing more than you win.

And the teams that get used to losing more than they win, when they've used to winning more than the lose, are the ones that adapt quick.

And as soon as you get that, as soon as the penny drops with promoted teams about that, that you cannot let...

anything affect you so if you lose three in a row you can't let it affect you and that's so difficult and that's the i think that's the biggest issue for a manager so we're talking sheffield united burnley and and luteton the ones who get used to that quickly will be the ones that sort of flourish and and maybe get some of those results when they're sort of focusing on a game at a time but yeah i think burnley did brilliant and i think that that's sort of a monkey off the back but you know sheffield united they had absolutely no chance when they got i mean they sort of overachieved when they when they were promoted and then he wasn't backed in the summer they saw the two best players a week before the start of the season absolutely no chance, Heckingbottom.

I don't know what people expect.

However, you know, when the spotlight's on you, you've got to sort of show that you're having an effect.

And

I think you know, lost a little bit.

Although, I think McBurney's second yellow card was a little bit, I'm not sure that that was a yellow card when I watched it, but obviously, having done the first one, then you know, you can't do that again, probably can't put your arms out again.

But a little bit of indiscipline, and the players don't look quite like they are producing for the manager.

And I think as soon as that is shown, then you know, Hecking Bottom had no chance.

McBurney went full Duncan Ferguson with those two elbows.

So, yeah, not helped.

And that probably helped rack up the scoreline.

Where does Sheffield United, though, Jonathan, go from here?

Because Lucy just raised it.

I mean, I doubt it's going to be a rescue job, is it?

With the greatest of respect, it's nearly impossible, isn't it, at this stage for Sheffield United to get out of this?

It's going to take something pretty momentous.

Yeah, it would do.

I mean,

in terms of the nature of their squad, in terms of how they've played so far, I think you'd say that it's not impossible in terms of points because of the Everton points seduction.

It's not that they're cast adrift.

It looks like three from four.

So from that point of view, you're not looking really at the gap.

You're looking at, can we catch Luton?

Can we keep in range of Everton?

You just have to run faster than Luton and you'll stay up.

Well, and Everton.

Everton carrying their 10 points of burden.

Is there much evidence they can do that?

That's the...

Well, I think before the last two games, they've been all right, haven't they?

They got four points from two games before the last two, but they've just looked dreadful the last two games.

But it just sort of feels in football sometimes, oh, this isn't working.

I'm going to have to do something.

What's the thing the teams do?

They sack the manager.

And I just sort of think, I mean, you know, we were talking about this before the pod, weren't we?

And sort of saying managers will always take jobs because there's not many jobs about.

But it's sort of a hiding to nothing.

You're probably just going to get a relegation on your CV.

And it's so early in the season that it will.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratches from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

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Impact

your capacity to turn things around next season.

So we've seen it with Jan Sevid, Ardean Smith.

Chris Wilde is the obvious one because he's floating about, obviously has recent-ish history with the club.

So maybe he goes back there.

But yeah,

I feel sorry for Paul Eckingbottom.

I just don't.

His mistake was to get him promoted.

That was what he should never have done.

Yeah, but although that will remain on

the CV and hopefully he'll get a job with someone who wants to be promoted.

I mean, he literally has...

I mean,

he's got the word bottom in his name and, you know,

I don't know if the nominative determinism, but it is very much a kind of switch it off, turn it off and on again, sacking, isn't it?

Let's see if this does something.

We've run out of ideas, but they should hire a 27-year-old German who skateboards and wears purple trousers and has ideas.

And I mean, it's kind of a free hit, isn't it?

Although, having said that, they're only four points away from being out of the relegation zone.

It's not the end of the world.

It is annoying.

It says one of my bugbears at the moment that football becomes obsessed with certain things.

And at the moment, it's become obsessed with coaches that have never played and have just coached and they're the best thing since sliced bread.

I think it's every single managerial appointment in the last sort of few weeks has been

somebody who is a young coach who probably still old enough to play.

So then you say, well, how come he's not still playing?

And

I don't know, there's a balance with everything, but they I call them iPad coaches.

And, you know, when it gets right down to the real sort of dirt stuff of football, I'm not sure an iPod coach has that ability to sort of, and I know it's a controversial opinion, but, you know, at halftime, if you've never been in that sort of situation, you have to sort of, you have to have had that experience, or it helps if you've had that experience.

A balance of the two is wonderful.

Who are you thinking of here?

I mean, are we talking Joe Edwards?

Who are these iPad coaches?

The younger ones who keep getting opportunities when they fail at some clubs.

And I'm not talking about the older ones anymore.

There's certain managers that don't do that well at clubs and then just get another club just because they're young and they actually talk.

The key is, Barney, is talking a good game.

So people, so owners go, wow, he knows what he's doing.

But yeah, but look at his win percentage at wherever he's just been.

Hasn't this always happened in football, though?

And this is just a different little, I mean, you had the round of guys who just got jobs, you know, I mean, people will say Steve Bruce, but I'm not saying saying steve bruce you know mark hughes you just appoint one of those guys because they're a famous opponent just from the other end no it's just a younger more snazzy merry-go-round on skateboards is what we're saying um barney uh vincent company this is it's big win for him and i think burnley really really really didn't want to you know have to pull the trigger on him i'm not sure if they would have done actually because you think he'd probably be the best person to bring them back up but i just i really like him yeah i don't think they would i mean mean he's he's built so much there sort of to his design I think sacking him would be a massive thing you're gonna have to change everything

and I think it's I think it's interesting what Lucy was saying probably applies to Burnley I think you were talking about Burnley that the idea that you've got to learn to to lose games that's what not in forest were really good at last year you got you've got the thing every game was a separate event and they would just walk out and run around and didn't matter what happened before and and that and yeah what if you're playing as a you've got this kind of idea of a process and this is how we play if you lose three games in a row you you probably do start to to doubt yourself i quite like vincent company although he does kind of um

so he's going to become mayor of manchester one point he kind of talks as though he already is the mayor of manchester he's kind of got

but he's very likable and i want him to be good i want to believe in him and some of the players they've got there are great to watch you know and i'm sure that they'll be fine i think if they realize they've got good enough players to win enough games and look at it from that way, we're going to win enough games if we just keep playing like this,

then they'll be fine and they'll probably get better next year.

St James's Park then, Newcastle won Manchester United nil.

Ryan says, with Newcastle putting out the same team against United as against PSG in the week and only having about seven fit players their name, who's more tired?

Them or Croatia?

It's never Croatia.

Is it generally remarkable or are United just that bad?

So Anthony Gordon with the only goal of the game.

But Jonathan, it was a 1-0 battering, wasn't it?

Oh, it really was, yeah.

And if that late Tony Maguire goal had counted, I mean, it was obviously upside shouldn't have counted, but had that counted, it would have been

a scandal.

But United is in that position now where,

I mean, I think they've done well enough recently.

Again, it seems they should be beating the Ten Hag is safe at least until the Jim Ratcliffe semi-takeover thing happens.

And then I think decisions will be made.

So at least they're not in that position where they might have to get rid of him because Football Clubs just sack the manager because they don't can't think of anything else to do and then bringing it into him.

But yeah, the fact that they're being investigated over not cooking their chicken properly,

the fact that their flight was cancelled and they have to get the bus.

Nothing is going right for them.

And partly, you know, partly is a lack of investment in infrastructure.

Things go wrong.

And I'm guessing if you pay your chefs the right amount, they can tell if a chicken's bleeding or if it's kind of cooked.

It is, there is, there is systemic mediocrity all the way through.

Are you employing people who are the best at what they do or people who are simply going to agree with you?

And that goes all the way down from the top.

And Lucy, I think it's important, as you pointed out, the contrast between Manchester United and Newcastle, they both had energy-sapping, emotionally draining games in midweek.

And it couldn't have been more different between

the way they went about this game.

Yeah, and I think that that's the thing about Eddie Howe and what he's managed to establish at Newcastle.

You know, I know we talk about the money and, you know, and

the players, but, you know, that top team spirit, that energy, that, you know, the way that they play, regardless of who plays, obviously, they've got a young player came in and did really well.

But, you know, I just think that that's the foundation.

You can always fall back on that.

And if you haven't got that and you try and fall back on it, then you, you know, you come up short.

And I think Alan Shearer said it on match and the day that they just, things start to go wrong, they don't roll the sleeves up.

And when you've got a captain like

Bruno Fernandes, who is an unbelievable player, but I think that his first thought when things go wrong is to moan and to

throw his arms in the air.

I think that that is sort of epitomises the rest of the group.

I think Marcus Rashford, his body language is quite interesting, his sort of lack of immediate reaction to sort of track back.

And that, you know, that's that's not him is it so what else you know what else is going on there where he you know he has that sort of um or seemingly that sort of attitude and that you know

i just think that's it they don't want to when things things are going right they're fine when things are going wrong i don't think they've got the sort of ability to or enough of ability to roll the sleeves up I think that's been true all season.

I think his attitude generally this season has been odd.

So you think of the

England-Italy game even.

So even when he's outside the United

environment, and I watched that game in Romania so I had Romanian commentary on so I wasn't being sort of led by by the commentator and that that that Italy goal the tendency looking on Twitter seemed to be to blame Maguire and then some people said oh actually I think it's stones no it was Rashford Rashford doesn't track back so Italy get a two and one on on their right and and that's that's why the cross comes in yeah I mean I think having worked with with young players a lot, my first thought of looking at him is right what what's going on sort of who's who's looking after him welfare-wise.

And I know that they've got a really sort of strong

academy, sort of welfare education at Manchester United.

I've worked quite a lot with them over the years, but

there is something there, whatever it is, whether it's to do with sort of work or whether it's to do with personal life.

But you know, you sort of have to sort of question that.

And you know, my first thought would be sort of support.

But

yeah,

it's not quite all there, is it?

I think that's an understatement.

Well, Newcastle might be without Nick Pope as well for some time.

Eddie Howe saying that he might have dislocated his shoulder.

So he's going to see a specialist today.

That'll do for part two.

Next, we'll look at the rest of the Premier League.

When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game, you bring your AI game.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

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Welcome back to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Arsenal 2 Wolves 1.

So Arsenal top of the Premier League.

Perhaps a bit more comprehensive than the scoreline suggests.

Arsenal, Jonathan, it seems finding their rhythm.

They've had a couple of really good performances.

But I saw before this, Tim Stillman of this parish was saying that they're getting the job done without being that much fun.

They seem to be a bit more fun now, but is this perhaps a better way of going about trying to win a title?

I think defensively, they're a lot more reliable than they were last season.

I think the squad's deeper.

They haven't been as fluent, and that may be partly because Arteta has been...

fiddling about a bit with getting full back to movement in the midfield.

I also think teams have worked out if you want to stop them, you've got to double up on Saka and Martinelli.

And the teams who've done that successfully, so you think of when they lost at Newcastle, for instance, Saka and Martinelli really struggled to get involved in that game.

So I think there is now a formula to beat them, and Arsenal have to find other ways of scoring goals.

But I didn't think Wolves did shut down Saka and Martinelli, particularly if you think of that first goal.

And I think I can't remember if it's Gary O'Neill or one of the Wolves players said they'd worked all week on how to stop Saka and then within 15 minutes, however long it was,

he's scored and they haven't done what they'd worked on.

Yeah, very good team goals from Arsenal in this one.

Eddie Nketi also hitting the post.

Matteus Cunha getting one back for Wolves.

Some positives there, Barney, perhaps that Gary O'Neill won't have to receive an apology from the PGMOL this weekend.

Yeah, and Gary O'Neill and his, it's like he's getting divorced from VAR and they have to have these constant painful discussions.

We had a really, really long discussion.

And

I really feel like saying someone needs to just give him a hug and say, it's just a game, Gary.

It's just a game.

It's a game.

You're propelling an inflated sphere into a netted square.

And that's all it is.

We don't need to have any more long talks.

Let's try and have some fun.

Let's rediscover the joy, Gary.

What does Varr get and what does Gary O'Neill get?

Is this the negotiation in the divorce?

Does he get,

do they keep the screen?

And

I think

yeah, they get Anthony Varr gets Anthony Taylor and Darren England and

Gary gets a whole load of bad decisions.

It's like a fair split.

Nottingham Forest Nil Everton won.

Lucy, was this the defiant performance from Everton that we were expecting last weekend against the corrupt Premier League, of course?

Yeah,

interesting, Everton.

I think that

Daesh seems to have got them going this season.

Obviously, that's a hammer blow.

But I think that, you know, everybody's saying they'll be all right.

I just think that this sort of performance is, they know, we're talking about getting used to sort of losing more than you win.

I think that Everton have that sort of attitude.

They know the games to target that they'll know that they can get three points from.

Forrest is quite interesting because Cooper obviously seems to be under pressure.

And I did notice that Joe Worrell, club captain, has not been involved in the last couple of squads after sort of being in and out of the team.

He's not injured.

And it's amazing how, I mean, I'm not saying anything's gone on, but it's amazing how that might affect stability in a club.

And then what I'm talking about is if he's sort of been frozen out, if he's not been chosen for squads, then it affects the rest of the players because his club captain is obviously a very influential.

player he's been there a while and be interested to see whether that has had some effects on the group of players because like Barney said before, players are human, they react to different things happening to people that they like within a club and just him not being around and not being part of the squad is quite and them not really getting the results has been quite interesting.

Do we think we might see the end of Steve Cooper, Jonathan?

As Lois has said, he seems to be perennially under pressure.

Yeah,

I mean Mohanakis clearly is a he's not an owner who's afraid to sack people, but equally Cooper's very, very popular with the fans and

I think he's done a really good job.

So

it would be a risk for them to get rid of him, particularly at the minute, given I don't think Forrest really are in any serious danger of being relegated.

I think they would possibly have been slightly unlucky in the last couple of weeks with a couple of penalty decisions.

The home form was what kept him up last season and they started to drop points at home.

That would be the concern because I don't think they were away formerly, particularly it probably is a bit better than last season.

It hasn't picked up dramatically.

But I don't think there's any real reason to get too worked up yet.

Forrest could have had a penalty to courier on Yates.

That was discussed quite at length on Sky.

Everton have not lost under Sean Dysch when they've scored the first goal.

And 33 of his 82 Premier League wins, Sean Daish, have been by 1-0, which I think might be the most Sean Daish stat I've ever seen.

Brentford 3, Luton 1.

I think, Barley, this possibly just shows that,

you know, Brentford,

they've got up to the Premier League seamlessly, and

they might be the next sort of palace, that purgatory team, where people start to think, oh, where are we going next?

Yeah, I really like Brentford.

I think they're great.

They kind of create chaos, don't they?

They create this really physical sort of pressure.

It must be horrible to play against them.

It's a funny little ground surrounded by tower blocks.

It's not exactly a cauldron.

It's more like a really good, like a cage in the middle of a nice new estate.

But

Thomas Frank knows exactly what he's doing, and they really play on their opponents' weaknesses.

I think they're great to watch.

And I just couldn't see any universe in which Luton were going to beat them because they're so pragmatic, and it's exactly the kind of team that will find your weak spots.

Neil Mope, second goal in nine for Brentford.

Who needs Ivan Toney?

I think.

Do you think that's, yeah,

possibly one of them.

But it's been impressive, hasn't it, Lucy?

They've absorbed his absence so well, Brentford.

I mean, Thomas Frank, I'm a huge fan of his and his wonderful hair.

Yeah.

He just knows what he's doing, doesn't he?

Yeah, and

it's a good club as well.

And that's, and they've responded over the years to losing their best players and then, you know, the rest of the players stepping up.

And, you know, obviously, and Burmo.

he's scoring goals and he's probably been in the shadow of Tony that sort of the last couple of seasons.

So he's stepped up.

Thomas Frank is

a tactician.

And I think that he obviously gets them going.

I did that Chelsea, the Chelsea-Brentford game.

And even though he said they didn't play well in the first half, they defended well and that's all they probably needed to do at that stage because then they got goal

in the second half.

But it's a good club because they've got a strategy.

And again, it's, you know, quite a few clubs find it very, very difficult for a cohesive, coherent strategy.

But I think Brentford have certainly got that off, obviously based on data.

And I think they've now started to develop because obviously the Premier League rules now say that you've got to have at least a Cat 3 academy by next season.

So they've had to bring their academy back bit by bit.

I think they started Cat Four trying to move to Cat One.

They didn't see the point in it before because, you know, the best players would just be taken for no money, hardly any money by the big clubs around in the London area.

So they just used to make friends with the London clubs and go, right.

you can have we'll have a sell-on clause we'll take the your um the ones you've released at whatever age group near near a sort of 16 17 18 we'll try and turn them into players and then you can have a percentage of the sell-on and it worked for them so now they've just a little bit of a different strategy now west ham won crystal palace one jonathan you did manage to get there and watch a game of football and write a piece afterwards we should congratulate you i'm not sure i watched a game of football

it was it was pretty grim i mean even david moes afterwards was sort of like oh yeah we couldn't really raise it we we didn't have a personality to get going we couldn't get the atmosphere going it was just so drab.

And Amakudas played well.

Again, he's obviously a really good player.

And it's a nice goal, actually.

I mean, I know it was deflected, but the move leading up to it was nice.

Palace were dangerous from set plays.

That was the only real opportunities they created.

Even the goal came from a goal kick, albeit

West Ham goal kick.

And you sort of thought

everybody would be much happier if it's sort of your one o'clock.

David Moyes and Roy Hodges just wandered out, shaking hands.

We're calling it the draw lads we're going home we're gonna gonna go and watch some some matlock dvds together and oh yeah off you go you can go there was loads of football on tell you today probably better than this just go and watch that um

so yeah it wasn't it wasn't great but i guess from pals point of view that you know they're well they're out without a win in six now but they've at least now got an extra point they've they've they've uh they'd lost four the previous five so getting a draw i guess a point at west ham's a good result just eases if it was any pressure there just eases that because they do have,

I think it's Bournemouth midweek and then Liverpool and City.

So if they were to lose that Bournemouth game, maybe pressure could come fairly quickly.

Happy Monday, West Ham and Crystal Palace fans.

Bournemouth 2, Aston Villa 2.

Bournemouth played very well and was slightly unlucky not to win this one.

And Barney Ollie Watkins showing he's elite with a fantastic header.

He will be the one that Gare Southgate throws on when England are desperate to get a goal back in the Euros this summer, do we think?

I don't know if he's a sort of game-changy type player.

I mean, he is he's really come on, hasn't he?

His movement and you know, you could set up a whole team around the way he plays because he's so good at running in behind.

Um, but that finish was incredible, wasn't it?

That's that's like a dream goal, like the neck muscles, the kind of directing the ball, putting power.

It's the sort of goal, goal you'd score in your sleep, isn't it?

And kind of you watch a power header rippling the net.

That's the goal I'd like to score.

Um, if i could just come on and you know maybe play for man city for half an hour or something i could probably muster one of those up um but he um he's got to be in in the england score because he he he's a really good player now a really good player i don't know if he's an impact sub exactly would you bring him on as an impact person he's someone who you'd want to base a system around no i suspect um harry kane might start he looking decent um england are weird though aren't they i mean if you look at it england uh england actually good now i've spent years saying nah you're

england have the greatest hand of young players in europe no they don't but they actually do now uh bellingham is a real game changer there um i was thinking about that this weekend uh best player in la liga at the moment best player in the bundesliga they're all english is the best player in the premier league english probably not but um yeah it's worrying times for gareth Very disconcerting, isn't it?

Dominic Solanke with a really nicely taken goal as well.

And Antoine Semenyo had a really good game, Jonathan.

I think we'll probably cover this a little bit more in the new year, but he's one that I know Bournemouth fans are quite worried about losing to AFCON.

And that's going to be something that the Premier League is going to, I mean, most clubs, I guess, in the Premier League are going to have to address.

No, I mean, I think he's really good.

I mean,

it

can go either way, he's going to be good with both feet.

I think he could have been sent off yesterday.

I mean, he was on a yellow and a very obvious shirt pull.

But, but yeah, he's.

I was at that game when they beat Newcastle, and

he looked outstanding that game.

He's sort of, I don't know,

he's not just technically good, he's big with it.

Whereas you look at somebody like Justin Clive, it just seems a little bit lightweight still.

So, yeah,

he's a really good player, and he will be a loss come January.

The draw for the Euro 2024 group stages took place on Saturday.

Scotland will be opening the tournaments.

They face off with host nation Germany.

They've also got Hungary and Switzerland in their group, England in Group C, Slovenia, Denmark, and Serbia.

Group B we think is the group of death, Spain, Croatia, Italy, and Albania.

Also to note, Wales are in path A of the playoffs, meaning that if they can get past Finland and then either Poland or Estonia, they will end up in Group D with France, Netherlands and Austria.

Quick round of what else happened over the weekend.

FA Cup second round.

Charlie says, can anyone stop Gillingham on their march to the FA Cup?

They've knocked out Charlton, Oxford and Cambridge both through.

So that's good for your interim host and your permanent host.

Yeah, Jim says, what routes will Oxford's open top bus take when they show off the FA Cuff at the end of the season?

I think they take promotion first.

Shocks, a few of them.

Maidstone United of National League, led by George Ella Coby, beat League 2 Barrow.

Chesterfield beating Leighton Orient.

The biggest upset, although I wouldn't put this down as a surprise, Eastley's 2-1 win over Reading.

The big picks possibly from the draw, Arsenal against Liverpool and Wilson, Sunderland against Newcastle.

Trying to get to that one, do you think?

I will avoid it at all costs.

It just sounds awful.

We've got a great record against them recently.

It's a shame that it's going to be jeopardised.

What I will say is the Sundays have not lost to Newcastle in the FA Cup for over 100 years.

Bill Holden getting both goals when Sunday won 2-0 in the quarter final, Adson James in 1956.

And then Sunday won in a third replay in 1913 on the way to the final, where Conrad was actually beaten by Villa in the final so controversially that Sunderland refused to turn up for the Charity Shield next year.

You have to interrupt him, or it will just keep going.

Can we talk about NFTs or Snapchat or Super Leagues or something modern just to clear the palette of women?

No.

Definitely.

Okay, this will clear the palette.

Women's Nations League.

Very exciting.

England coming from 2-0 down to win 3-2 at Wembley against the Netherlands on Friday night.

Very flat, though, after a full-time whistle, because qualification to the final and then to the Olympics is now out of their hands.

They need to beat Scotland at Hamden Park on Tuesday night and they also need Netherlands to drop points against Belgium or they manage a three-goal swing in their favour.

Much more on that and the plans for the new Champions League format in the women's game on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, which will be out tomorrow.

Don't really have time for any other business.

A lot of people asking about my Munich moments and no,

we've run out of time, maybe next time.

So I think we'll leave it there.

Unless anyone else wants to share their Munich moment, this is a safe space.

I'm guessing no.

We've been here long enough.

What's a Munich moment?

Barry's Munich moment.

Shout himself on the U-bunner.

Ah,

that sounds like over-sharing.

Okay.

And

I'm glad we have the new regime in place now.

Well, thank you very much, comrades.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Cheers.

Thank thank you.

Thanks, Lucy.

Cheers, Rob.

And to you, Barney, thank you very much.

Cheers, everyone.

We'll be back on Thursday to cover some of the midweek games.

Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray, and our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.