Fortress Villa Park and McTominay magic – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, a prime cut of Premier League fixtures to chew through.

The villa is now officially a fortress, 14 home wins on the spin in Manchester City, tempting us into saying there is a title race.

Elsewhere, the voice note machine is being cranked up after Fulham caused a forest fire at the cottage.

Even the best guy on the planet can't help Sheffield United to a win.

We'll rehash some of the age-old favourites.

Is Scott McTominay good?

What's going on with Arsenal's goalkeepers?

And do Chelsea need to sign some more players?

Meanwhile, in the Nations League, there's no Iron Team and no Team GB at the Olympic Games, despite England hammering Scotland at Hamden Park.

All of that, plus your questions, and that's today's Cardian Football Weekly.

Our panel today, Will Unwyn.

Good morning.

Good morning, Robin.

And good morning to Noradine Chowdhury.

Hello.

And Johnny Lou in a hotel room with no chair.

Yeah,

I'm up in Manchester, and as much as I would love to have a chair, I don't.

That seems like quite a big omission for a hotel room, but...

No, just not the only thing that's missing.

Also,

the shower dripped all night and kept me up.

That sounds like a classic Michaels and Vinny sort of situation.

Yeah, well, Joel's just said this is the most northern pod football weekly ever, and that's kind of we're really starting well, aren't we?

Before we begin, a huge thank you to all of our listeners who voted for the pod at the Football Supporters Association Awards.

It won Best Podcast once again.

And I can only assume that Max and Barry are still on the open bus tour.

That's why they're unavailable for this pod.

So lots to get through.

Let's start at Old Trafford.

So-called Crisis Club, Manchester United 2, Chelsea 1.

And Johnny, you're up north.

You're at Old Trafford.

How was it?

Very good game.

I mean, I think United were superb.

They obviously missed a penalty early on.

And

then, you know, they just started with this kind of in this relentless attacking mode.

The crowd got into it.

And they didn't really kind of let up.

And the only times when...

you know, when they did let up was when Chelsea just kind of inexplicably just managed to run through them and have a four-on-two counter-attack, which they would then inevitably mess up.

And I think that's the kind of the bargain, the Faustian deal that you're getting with Manchester United and especially with Scott McDominay, who's proving so effective as that sort of extra man in the box and popped up with a goal in each half, could even have had a hat-trick, actually.

He was joking afterwards about how he kind of blew his hat-trick.

And he's playing so well in that role because Ten Hogg has basically got him to be that agent of chaos in the final third, third, you know, be the extra man, be the overload, make those runs.

And, you know, the upshot is that it's kind of leaving them short in midfield.

And that's why Chelsea kept countering them.

And

Nicholas Jackson had a bit of a mare.

I thought Cole Palmer was actually very poor until his very good goal, his equalizer.

So, yeah, it was one of those games where I thought 4-1 wouldn't have been a weird result.

And also 1-1.

That's just kind of where these two teams are at at the moment.

Just two very weird teams.

But United, I think they're quietly building something.

I don't know what it is, but I feel like there's something coming together.

With an extra dripping shower, perhaps.

But yes, Shane says, at what point is Scott McTominay genuinely in the Banon d'Or conversation?

Nas,

this was actually a good Manchester United performance, which must be very disconcerting for you.

It is, yeah.

I mean, we're not used to it.

I mean, I think this might be the first game of the season where it's been like a complete performance finish to end, which was half decent.

It was a really good game, but part of that is obviously because both teams are sort of

to a certain extent inept.

So it's kind of like you don't know if it's a good game because teams are playing well or both teams are equally sort of frail.

But yeah, it was end-to-end.

And United played well in general.

Tomini is on fire.

He's actually always been like a good finisher.

I don't think that's the issue with him.

It's more a case of whether he can do a job in midfield.

But maybe Ten Hag

has found a solution to

how to use him in the current problems in terms of like...

He seems to be the only player who, when the ball comes to him, you kind of have a half,

United have half a chance of scoring.

So

he did well in that respect.

I thought it was Amrabat's best game for United.

He's had a few good games at fullback, but

when United signed him, the hope was that he'd be a bit of a bully in the middle, which he was, and he did that really well in this game.

But yeah, there was still the amount of times United were wide open, and it was just Chelsea being poor

that they didn't take advantage of that.

But no, I really enjoyed it.

Like, may it continue?

Like,

if the Faustian Pact is that there's this sort of game where at least it's not turgid and either team could win, like, bring it on.

And, Will, United now three points off the top four three points off manchester city how has this happened where's the narrative just willing to pass on the crisis baton over manchester united for you know for so long in the premier league you know when they'd won five out of six they were grinding out results like i was at luton at home and they were poor they were slow but they got a result And getting results is all that matters in football.

And getting results builds confidence.

And at some point, I felt it was going to click.

And maybe last night was it.

I was at Galatasarai away.

And going forward, they were really good.

But the midfield was mildly farcical, which didn't help.

And obviously, the goalkeeper.

But they've got those elements.

And I think Rashford being out of the team has helped.

I think he's lacked energy and efficiency and overall competence on the left.

And Gonacho brought all of that yesterday.

And they do have a decent squad.

And if they get together and work how they're supposed to and have the natural X factor that is Scott McTominay, you're always in with a chance of beating teams because

he is the agent of chaos, as Johnny says, bringing in that extra element in the box, running from deep being a surprise.

And so they do have all the tools that they need.

They probably just needed that extra bit of confidence and I think a bit of faith in their own ability because they've really struggled with that, especially in Europe when you've seen them.

And defensively, they're looking a little bit more competent.

There was, let's say, Amrabat played well.

It was his best game because his other games were pretty terrible, to be fair.

But having a midfield would be a useful skill for United from the start of the season when Wolves just walked through them.

It's not really being addressed too well.

But yeah, it's getting there with Amrabat Mainu looking decent when he's played.

But obviously, you can't rely on an 18-year-old defensive midfielder to solve all your problems.

And

the problem with United now is that they've had a few false starts that they need to kick on and

carry on this form from Wednesday night.

Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it?

Because I think perhaps the results and the sort of chaotic performances in the Champions League have sort of clouded where they are in the Premier League, because they're a lot better off there.

You alluded to it, Johnny.

I mean, Chelsea, what on earth do you make of them as a team?

They've now lost 17 of 38 league pictures in 2023.

Do they need to keep trusting the process with Pochitino now?

I think so.

I mean, Pochettino said after Newcastle, the Newcastle game, with the lost 4-1, that it was the only game he thought they deserved to lose.

And I think this was another one.

I mean,

they look like a team that are just, you know, they're two or three steps away from clicking.

And

when it all makes sense,

and at times this season, it has made sense.

The city game, which they, the 4-All, which certainly in an attacking sense,

they managed to get those, you know, they managed to play through the press and

kind of coordinate

their counter-attacks in a way that actually they really didn't hear.

They would often break three or four on two, and

you'd have Jackson and Mudrick and

Sterling all running around.

And

they weren't kind of coordinating with each other.

You didn't get the sense that they were anticipating each other's movements.

You got the sense that they were kind of reacting to each other, which is still the hallmark of a team, I think, that is getting to know each...

to get to know each other's movement.

And at the back, I think they're all off, you know, they're all working at slightly slightly different paces um kukara started right back which i thought was a strange one he he came off rhys james who i i didn't think was much better i thought enzo and and kaisedo had a really enzo had a really poor game in midfield and you know this has been this has been chelsea they haven't managed to put all the constituent parts together um i i really i like them i think they're a lot of fun um and i think there are a lot of neutrals who enjoy watching chelsea but i think chelsea fans are getting quite frustrated with how they are, you know, they're being so open and they're kind of they're almost you know, they're going into games, they're going at teams with abandon, um, but not getting the rewards at the, you know, at the attacking end of the pitch and not being able to keep them out at the defensive end of the pitch either.

That old proverb comes to mind, if Manchester United win, but there's no one there to report it, did it actually happen?

Yes, in a very

definitely not a club in crisis move, Manchester United banned journalists from four media outlets from Tuesday's news conference pre-match with Eric Tenghaag.

Before we go any further, have any of you thinking, Will, or I'm be very disappointed, Johnny, if you'd never been banned from a press conference, surely, in your time?

I got banned by Leicester a few years ago for calling Jamie Vardy a racist.

Really?

It was never formally lifted, but I am kind of welcomed back now.

It's a badge of honour, right?

I think if you're one of the outlets that got banned, you know, you feel like you've taken one for journalism while, in fact, just getting a morning off work.

But no, it's not a great look, is it, when clubs start doing that?

No, it's not.

But then you kind of,

with United, it's always a case you wonder: is it slightly a case of Fergie cosplay?

Where it's like,

we all know what Fergie was like when

he came up against journalists and didn't like, so yeah, maybe there's a bit of that, but yeah, like, like, who do you blame?

Do you blame the journalist who's just reporting what the source said?

Or do you look at who the source might be and what the problems are in the dressing room?

But yeah,

it's all fun and games, and yeah,

as Johnny said,

it's nice for journalists to feel as if they're sort of fighting the good fight and

almost too dangerous to sort of be there.

Yeah,

he said it wasn't for publishing stories we didn't like, but for doing so without contacting us first to give us the opportunity to comment, challenge, or contextualise.

I'm not sure if you can give some insight into this, Will.

Obviously, I mean,

that seems like a kind of fairly reasonable thing to ask.

How do these things work generally?

Yeah, if you have a story, the general rule is that you go to the club and you explain what it is and that you're going to publish it and you give them a reasonable amount of time to come back at you.

There's no need for an official statement with a story like this, so I can see why it wasn't done.

Generally, banning journalists is just a dreadful idea.

It just highlights the story even more.

It's a massive overreaction,

and you have to accept what is a free and fair press.

You know the journalists that are involved are very good at their jobs so it's likely to be a very good story and United flying off the handle I don't think helps them at all and obviously historically they've been very good at it

even if it in the good old days it wasn't the director of communications that did it.

But yeah so hopefully the journalists will take their one match ban and no more will happen.

The best way to

silence journalists that are critical of your club is to win football matches.

So I'd advise Manchester United to do more of that.

Robin, have you ever been banned?

Has a club ever kind of taken issue at your commentary or

how you've presented them?

Oh, I'm absolutely certain of that, but news hasn't reached me.

So, yeah, absolutely certain.

No, I know

past experience that

they do sometimes bring it up.

Oh, I didn't like the way you said that.

I think, yeah, a certain current palace manager in particular seems to watch Match of the Day

quite diligently.

But more on that later.

To Villa Park, Aston Villa won.

Manchester City 0.

We will, of course, talk about the new Crisis Club in Manchester, but let's start with Aston Villa.

Stuart says, our Villa in the title picture.

Exceptional performance from them.

They're now just four points off Arsenal who are top.

Nus, is it time that we took them seriously as not just Champions League contenders, title contenders, Aston Villa?

I mean, why not?

I remember when I first got into football,

Villa were right up there when teams were allowed back into Europe.

Villa were with a team in the European Cup.

So yeah,

bringing Maitokopias back and all that business.

So no,

I'm right up for it.

I mean,

to be fair, like even top four would be amazing.

And I think, uh, I think Villa have kind of replaced Brighton in that, um, do you know, you've always got that club in the Premier League that are like the barometer of like, if you do things well and and if you organise as a club and you do if you do everything the right way, it's almost a um you almost um

compare bigger uh bigger clubs with more money to them and kind of say, well, well, why can't why can't Manchester United do it?

Or why can't um

whoever, Newcastle or or or or or Liverpool do it if Villa are doing it.

Um I think I think Viller have actually replaced Brighton as as as a as a club who are doing everything right or they seem to be at the moment and and and quite apart from the results and the amazing home form like they're they're just they're just fun to watch um they're they're at risk of becoming that dreaded everyone's second favorite team uh but yeah it was it was really good and um

by all accounts they were the the the result flattered sister

yeah well perhaps the biggest thing they've done well, is dispensing of Stephen Gerard and getting Unai Emery.

This is his first win over Pep Guardiola in quite a few attempts.

Astonville had 22 shots to Manchester City's two.

Two attempts, Will, the whole game.

I think we've attempted more during the first half of this pod.

Yeah, and we've had more on target in terms of our views on City.

Yeah, and those two shots came in the matter of about 10 seconds as well in the one good attack that City produced.

I mean,

it was mildly laughable, the difference in quality between the two teams.

And I don't watch Aston Villa every week, but you listen to what Andy Townsend, who I'm sure does watch far more than I do.

Leon Bailey was incredible, but that was his best game.

So if you can

get him to do that every week, then yeah, you've got to say they've got the level of players that can reach software.

They've got Ollie Watkins, who is a striker that scores goals, which is a very sensible policy to have as a football club.

Across the back four, didn't really give Erlen Haaland a sniff.

I know he he didn't get much service, but you know, incredible performance there.

Lucas Dino getting down the left was very good.

John McGinnie, midfield, Douglas Weeds are all really, you know, having a really good season.

The age-off question will be for Villow is whether they can maintain it with Thursday nights and weekend football.

And so you might have to, you know, review the matter in March to see where they all are.

But

it's a sensible club that have created a diligent recruitment plan, brought in players for the right roles, done their research to make sure they fit in.

And they all knit into a system that Una Naimari wants to play.

Maybe if Stephen Joard was there, they'd be top of the league by now, but who knows?

Who knows?

But yeah, it's an incredible job that he's done.

And if you watch that game last night and we're told that that team won the treble, one team won the treble last season, and one team was looking at relegation in about October.

You'd be surprised to find out the answer of which was which.

But yeah, it's incredible from Villa and City

really Ruggling at the moment, as Guardiola said.

I think his exact words are struggling.

And

it's a few chickens coming down to Ruth that Guardiola likes to have a small squad.

So when you have a few injuries and a couple of suspensions, it really does show up, especially when one of those suspended is Rodri.

Last season,

he got five bookings.

His fifth booking came in late April.

He's already got five this season and descending off.

And

what are the reasons behind that?

I think he's played a lot of games, so he's a lot more tired.

So that's an issue for him and might explain why he's getting bookings.

But also, the loss of Ilkai Gundwin in that midfield, I think, is very, very stark.

And not finding an

it's obviously impossible to find an exact replacement, but you know, Kovacich isn't that guy.

Nunes has struggled with a step up from Wolves to City, and it'll take time.

Like, you know, most Guadalajara, it does quite often take a season

for players to resettle.

And, you know, Nunes probably suffered from the fact that Jeremy Doku looks like the greatest winger to ever have grace this earth.

But yeah, it's

City, say there are reasons why this is happening.

You can see that, and it is a case of getting players back and getting that form back because City were excellent in the sort of run-up to those three draws and now the loss, beating United easily, beating Bournemouth 6-1.

Yeah, it's up to Guadiel to

get him refreshed and ready to go for loot and away before

the Club World Cup comes around, which is an interesting one to sort of break up the season.

So, yeah, fun few weeks ahead for City.

Four games without a win.

I mean, by their standards, that is a pretty incredible slump.

And I'm sure you're in lots of City

WhatsApp groups, Will, because you're a fan, of course.

And I mean, is there anyone tempted to ring up Five Live and call Pep a fraud and say that he needs to go?

You think I'm more popular than I am?

No, I think if anyone phoned up and asked for Pep to go, it'd be impressive.

Yeah, look, the performances are bad tonight.

Oh, what happens?

Last night was a really bad performance.

And as I say, there are reasons behind it.

It's not like the players,

they're all available and they're all playing poorly.

Yeah, everyone played poorly last night.

I don't think anyone comes out with much credit.

Edison made a couple of saves.

I mean, Fodem's awful.

Bernard is, there's no point running through it, but they're all terrible.

No, I did see someone tweet that it was worse than any performance they saw under Pellegrini, which I thought was was quite funny.

Yeah,

you know, City will come back, they'll win more games, they'll finish first or second.

You know, that's football for you.

Let's all relax, let's have a nice time.

Christmas is coming up, don't stress yourself over losing against a really good astability,

you know.

Well, you know, obviously, if you lose away to Villa, that ruins your Christmas, and you might as well give up.

But yeah, I mean, it's fine, it's football.

Football is the king of short-termism.

I'd probably not worry too much.

Well, speaking of not stressing yourself out in other news, Manchester City have been charged by the Football Association following the furious confrontation with the referee Simon Hooper.

They were charged on Monday by the FA, but Haaland has escaped censure under the FA's regulations around media use, which allow players to use social media after a game to criticise match officials' performance or competence.

Only when a criticism implies bias or attacks the official's integrity can charges be considered.

So WTF was a judge to fall outside those criteria so we see a flurry of those coming i think that'll do for part one in part two we'll continue to wade through the other premier league midweek fixtures

coach the energy out there felt different what changed for the team today it was the new game day scratchers from the california lottery play is everything those games sent the team's energy through the roof are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field hey a little play makes your day and today it made the game that's all for now.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Luton 3, Arsenal 4.

A cruel end to the game once again for Luton.

A last-minute winner from Declan Rice in the 97th minute.

This was lots of fun though, wasn't it, Nas?

Oh, it was amazing.

And yeah, it's one of those games where it's great to have Twitter open at the same time because you kind of like just when people, like everyone, like all the rival fans of Arsenal are really enjoying a goal, like suddenly they score and they all shut up.

But it was an amazing game.

One thing that I was a slight surprise to me, and maybe it shouldn't have been, is there was a lot of thirst for Rob Edwards

on social media.

I didn't realise how much of a heartthrob he is.

Oh, yeah.

No, he's if you he's like he looks like those.

If you buy a photo, he's the stock image in like the photo frame, isn't he?

I get that, but by the same token to me, his good looks are almost baddie good looks, like like the like the bully in the high school film.

So

yeah, no, it's

yeah,

i do it's it's almost like he's too good looking he's got the square jaw like the perfect here so so no that that was a that was a slight surprise to me but um

but yeah no it was it was it was an amazing game and uh yeah i i continue to be impressed by declan rice like it's not it's not as if he had his best game but he's one of these players now i think that um always whenever you need him he turns up with something whether whether that's sort of like a run breaking through the lines or an important goal like he was he was one of those players where when he was at West Ham, and again, this says more about me than it does him, where I didn't quite get the hype.

I was like, what is a Declan Rice?

Like, what, what is so special about him?

Why does everyone want him?

And now

it's obvious even to me that

he's one of those talisman players.

And he's almost developed this,

as well as everything else,

this almost Stephen Girard sort of quality of coming up with big moments.

I think you're almost not allowed to be impressed by someone who costs over £100 million, which is ridiculous, but it's like they have to do something really, really special, like start levitating or something.

I think

he's also disarming.

He doesn't come across as like a superstar.

And you've seen him when he does his like

daft things, like being surprised and doing his little

skits

for the England camp.

So like

he's half like potentially world-class midfielder and half

CBDC presenter.

So

that's something that I've had to reconcile in my life.

Get him on bedtime story.

That'll be the next one.

Love that.

So another late winner this time for Arsenal to add to the list.

89th minute winner at Brentford.

Equaliser, late one at Chelsea, 86th minute winner at City.

Winners against United are 96th and 101st minutes as well.

Johnny, it's the age-old question, is it the mark of champions that they get the job done, or is it slightly concerning that there's quite a lot of jeopardy in these games, it seems, with Arsenal?

Yeah, I mean, this is the eternal debate.

I think it's a testament to their fitness.

I think it's a testament to

the mentality, because these things become self-prophesying after a while.

If you score a few late goals and you begin to expect them, and

everyone remembers the Bournemouth game, for example, last season, and you know, that late winner.

And

you you almost kind of portend them, opposition fans do, and opposition teams begin, you know, they begin to get a little chittery.

Um, I mean, I think that the really encouraging thing for Arsenal is the way that different players have kind of stepped up.

So, Odegaard, who I thought was sensational in the second half, um, you know, who I thought maybe had gone slightly off the boil last few weeks.

Uh, you know, he's come back with a Benjamin Martinelli, um,

you know, he's back in the goals, and and whereas like the early part of the season was kind of all about sacco and and ketia now jesus has come back he's got a goal and uh you know there are different different parts of the team are are contributing at at the times they're needed and i think that's a that's the sign of a of a really well-oiled machine we don't you know we talked about chelsea earlier where the the constituent parts don't seem to be working together arsenal is one of those teams where

what whatever they they need, they almost kind of reverse engineer what they need to do,

what they do from what they need to to do.

So, whoever basically needs to step up, steps up.

That's, you know, this unquantifiable thing in football.

You know, how do you, you know, it's, I guess in other sports, you'd call it clutch.

And Arsenal are doing that.

I think, you know,

there is still a concern that their top level is not going to be enough to get to, you know, 95 points if it's one of those, you know, really high-quality title races.

But I think they've definitely got more than enough to get to 90.

That may just be enough for them this season.

And I think

the level of their lowest performances has really risen this season.

You're not getting many stinkers out of them.

That consistency, I think, is a good thing, especially at this stage of the season.

Jim says, did anyone else enjoy Amazon showing the mistakes that Ryan made for Luton's second and third goals, then cutting back to a smiling Ramsdale on the bench?

Top-top contribution to the narrative that, yeah, I think we need a Ramsdale count now, don't we?

I mean, this is becoming quite, it just is a story that keeps keeps rumbling on and Will I'm not sure should should Arteta get some criticism for the way this has been handled because it seems now they both look shaky when they play I don't think he should get criticism he's made a decision and a strong decision that he wanted another goalkeeper that is slightly different to Ramsdale and who he thinks is an upgrade

the only thing he needs to decide really is say look that's my number one I'm gonna go if you want to go well he's not done that has he that's the physics

is a bit woolly.

It is a bit woolly, but he

really, he's not said it in public, but Rya's clearly the number one.

I mean, Ramsdale's played when Rya wasn't available against Brentford and not much else.

It's, you know, it is what it is, but you've got to accept that Rya is the number one.

And if he's probably just more nervous about the fact that he has got someone that's a number two behind him.

And once you start making mistakes, as Andrea and Arna will tell you, you're going to keep making them.

And that's just the nature.

And

if you're going to, he's not chopping and changing them unless completely necessary.

So I think we just have to accept Ray as number one and move on and try and sell Ramsdale in January to Newcastle or something like that.

Because no point having your second choice goalkeeper giggling on the bench.

I'd like to continue to see his reactions, though.

Maybe it's just like having a full picnic smorgasbord on the bench next time.

A couple of cans, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That'd be great.

I reckon we should have had like a Max cam today,

just just with just with you sort of like uh doing so well in

his absence.

He's putting his hands above his head and clapping me.

Good point, yeah, yeah.

But inside, he's dying.

Max will be back on Monday.

This is not a coup.

Um, Arteta was booked uh for leaving his technical area after the last-minute winner, uh, so that's his third booking, so he'll be missing from the touchline for their game at Villa.

The sound of the celebration, Police again, Nas.

We can't keep them down, can we?

It's so funny.

Like, I just don't, I don't understand it.

Like, like, we, Celebration Police was obviously all about rival fans saying, why are you celebrating?

It's only whoever.

And now, like, referees have got involved.

And, and I genuinely, like, like, I'm not joking, like, I don't understand the celebration thing with Arteta.

Like, what was the problem?

Was it the fact that it can't be affecting the game because the game can go on?

Like, like, Arteta could have been doing like a whole sort of routine and the game could still have been going on

while he was doing that.

So it's not to sort of delay the game.

There's something in the rule about

something being choreographed, and it wasn't choreographed.

It was just

being happy.

So

it's such a strange one.

But what it has done is it's given us

Arsenal fans being disgruntled and looking through the archives and finding

celebrations by managers and sort of like there's a deserving one going around of like well is this allowed and what is the sort of barometer but yeah I just I don't understand what what got the officials unhappy about it is is it is it the length of the celebration is it the amount of joy is it is there a are they sort of trying to curtail the amount of joy because yeah i think and also the thing with arteta is when he celebrates he doesn't do that happy celebration he does that kind of angry celebration of like proving people wrong and being very masculine about it.

So yeah,

I don't quite understand why he got done for it, but it's

as a neutral, it's slightly funnier.

It is actually because, yeah, you're right.

Is there a criteria, a set criteria?

I think it was technically because he left his technical area, which is something obviously that everyone's very, very,

very upset about whenever he does it.

It should be adjusted to the size of the technical area.

Kennelworth Word is, you know, it's a tiny pitch.

It's a very cramped ground.

You know,

it's a very small technical area.

Whereas at West Ham, for example, at the London Stadium, if you leave your technical area, anywhere, any reason, if you leave your technical area at West Ham, that should be an instant two-match touchline ban.

There's no need to leave that area.

Whereas I think Kenilworth wrote, it's slightly more understandable.

Have the, you know, have the Premier League, have they, you know, adjusted for, you know, what's the XL, you know, XTAL, X expected technical area leaving

metric, you know, for each technical area.

These are the things we need to know because this is how humanity grows and prospers.

Maybe there could be a technical area, but then outside of that, there could be a celebration area.

Like a mosh pit.

Like a mosh pit.

Exactly.

Love that idea.

Let's move on to

Craven Cottage.

Fulham 5, Nottingham Forest 0.

We'll start with the big winners here, Fulham.

They were brilliant.

Biggest Premier League win since August 2012.

Raoul Jimenez scoring twice.

He struggled so far this season.

For his second, he rounds the keeper and scores a delicious back heel.

And Will, we haven't seen that sort of confidence from him consistently actually since before that awful head injury.

So, that's from the neutral perspective, that was really lovely to see, actually.

Yeah, you know, using incredible form prior to the head injury, and since then, he's really struggled to get back.

And obviously, you're never going to know exactly whether it's confidence and fear of

going into these games.

But once you say we've discussed confidence a lot, it really does help you.

If you are willing to go around the goalkeeper and backheel it in, then you're probably in a good place in your life and football.

It's nice to see because he does, you know, it was a long road back.

Anyone that has that sort of lengthy time out is bad.

And you've seen players that have suffered similar injuries like Ryan Mason

that couldn't come back.

which makes it even more understandable that Roel Jimenez has taken time to adapt and recover and

get back to playing the way he can do.

And he's had to move clubs now, and obviously, different environment there.

And you know, it's not like it sort of

was great from the start at Fulham, it's taken time, but he's getting games, and you know, it's a big job as well at Fulham to replace Mitrovic.

And it was a very sort of short notice that he was off.

So, yeah, no, it's fantastic to see.

And, you know, Fulham playing some good football, and Marco Silva's doing a great job down there, and

it'll be very safe and comfortable, and they'll have a nice mid-table season it looks like so you know they can they can back back

all in from zero yards because they won't get relegated it's fine that doesn't seem so another really good performance from andreas pereira as well um forest on the other hand they've lost their last four conceding 12 goal goals in the process uh image of the night goes to dom manning on x who posted a picture of owner evangelos marinakis his press pass that was jammed in a hedge outside craven cottage now i might be reading it too much into this Johnny, but I'm not sure that's a good sign for Steve Cooper's future.

Yeah, all of the

stories in the papers that he's, you know, he's going to be sacked, maybe even as soon as this week,

Lopotegi's been mentioned, Marco Silva, actually,

is a coach that they like.

Not that I think Fuller would want to let him go.

Yeah, I don't think it is a good sign.

And obviously,

it's a strange thing this season because Forrest fans, you know, they have been really clear about where

their loyalties lie.

They've been singing Cooper's name.

They even sang his name after a 5-0 road defeat in midweek.

And I think that that shows

he's clearly a good coach and he's clearly a decent guy.

I don't think he's necessarily blameless for this.

Everyone talks about the chaos and the 40 players coming in or whatever.

Ultimately, it's Cooper's job to

get a team in to get a team out on the pitch that basically looks like

they know what they're doing.

And at times, Forest have, and at times, they haven't.

And I think it's been the goals they're shipping in recent games.

What Forrest have kind of never really done for me is they've never kind of tried to really convince me of how they actually want to play.

They've switched between formations, they've switched between goalkeepers.

Obviously, you know, that massive personnel coming in and out, but I've never really got a defined kind of identity or playing stuff.

Well, you know,

do they want to be a sort of a pragmatic, close down the space kind of team?

Do they want to be an expansive kind of team?

I don't think, I don't think Cooper's ever kind of managed to reconcile those two polls and come up with a kind of coherent identity.

And obviously, you know, circumstances make that a lot harder.

But, you know, as much as I think, you know, he's a decent guy.

And

not knowing him, obviously, I don't know him.

I can't make a judgment on his character, but he seems like a decent bloke and a decent coach.

This is kind of the way of things.

You are a slave to results.

And Forrest just haven't been good enough recently.

to Crystal Palace.

They lost 2-0 to Bournemouth.

I was there and it was grim.

They were really, really bad.

Crystal Palace, nothing in attack.

Bournemouth were good enough.

Didn't really have to be that good though to beat Palace.

So Bournemouth building, actually, they kept their nerve with Irayola.

Possibly could have pulled the trigger on him, but they're now unbeaten in four, three wins, and nine points clear of the relegation zone.

There were lots of booing at half-time and full-time.

One point from games against Everton, Luton, West Ham, and Bournemouth, and it's Liverpool and Manchester City in their next two games.

And Nas, I'm not sure what you made of this.

I don't know if you saw it, but Roy Hodgson after the game saying that fans have been spoilt in recent years.

Yeah,

it's such a,

I'm fascinated.

I'm constantly

fascinated by Roy Hodgson because, on the one hand, he seems like such a genial, lovely chap, but like, I think there's a slight element of brick top about him.

He's got like this old-school gangster type, sort of like speaking very sort of like

softly spoken, but sort of like with a menace.

Like

it's the way he said the fans had been spoiled in recent times.

It's the way he sort of, I think, I think on more than one occasion he called Bournemouth a little club or something.

That was a bit strange.

And then

somebody mentioned that a bottle had been thrown in his direction.

And he said something like, what, you mean to tell me a fella's unhappy with me?

Well, I'll definitely, definitely won't sleep well tonight.

And I'm like, what?

What is all this sass?

It's

It's kind of like this.

He's kind of gone to war with the Palace fans.

And it's,

I'm not sure it's the best tactic, but I mean, who knows?

Like,

maybe he's, maybe, maybe he'll turn it around and the fans will be fine.

But

there's not a great atmosphere around Palace at the moment.

And

I think it's one of those fan bases that if you get them behind you, they're amazing, but you do not want to get on the wrong side of them.

And you certainly don't want to kind kind of go to war with them publicly, which

bricktop Hodgson seems to have done at the moment.

He does it like he might be packing, doesn't he?

Like, you just wouldn't be that surprised if he kind of unleashed something

from his coat.

Yeah, this was a man who squared up to a player earlier on this season.

It's been

quite the time

for Roy Hodgson.

And actually, the talk of the gantry, because I'm not in the know at all, but just a couple of the guys up there were saying that Doogie Friedman really covered Steve Cooper, and I think they were trying to get him after Patrick Vieira because they thought he was going to be sacked by Nottingham Forest.

So, could we see that happening, perhaps?

Yeah, I mean, I think that would be a

really great move, obviously.

Hodgson always has never felt like more than a stopgap.

And

he's done...

a decent job, I think.

But there is so much more.

I think there is so much more that

Palace can be

as a kind of a story.

This is

a really kind of authentic South London club that draws a lot of its

players and a lot of its pride and a lot of its identity from the local community.

You've got

this guy from Croydon managing his almost his hometown club.

There should be a kind of an excitement about this.

But the problem with Hodgson is that he's clearly a very, very smart guy who needs to be taken.

He feels like he needs to get the credit for being smart at all times.

And when, you know, when you're kind of perennially 14th in the Premier League, it kind of looks, it feels like you're going nowhere.

And there are not many opportunities to prove your genius.

And I think, you know, that's basically the problem.

You need a coach.

I mean, we've talked about Ange at Spurs.

Oh, here we go.

People love it when you talk about Ange, Johnny.

They love it.

Yeah, I know, yeah.

I don't, yeah, I mean, people, people have, people just just, they really just want to hear more about me on Ange, I think.

But, you know, there is

one of the reasons he's so popular is that he kind of sells, he sells a dream.

He sells a vision.

You know, you're not actually going anywhere in a, you know,

if you're, if you're a mid-table club like Palace or Wolf, they'll be fine, right?

But

you need to sell a journey.

You need to sell some kind of hope.

And Hodgson has never kind of, he's never bought into that.

He's like, well, you know, when I was, if you, if you take a 30-year span of Palace history, actually, you know,

they've been in the top division, actually, not for for not for a huge amount of time.

So, you should, and that is just not how fandom works.

I don't know how long it is, there's been, you know, it's been since Hodgson has actually been a fan.

But, you know, if he doesn't, if he doesn't get that a coach of

a Premier League club with such a strong tie to its local community

needs to offer something more than just, well, we've, we've delivered seven straight quarters of economic growth.

It's basically that in managerial form.

You'll never see that.

You know, know, then

he doesn't get

what this job is about, weirdly enough.

So

Palace probably needs to find someone who can, who does get it.

Shefford United 0 at Liverpool 2.

Chris Wilder's return ends in defeat.

Will, I mean, he's come in for Paul Heckingbottom.

Perhaps they're hoping for a bit of a managerial bounce and the fact he's been there before.

I mean, it sort of makes sense, but do you give them any chance of improving on their position?

Yeah, he lives nearby so that's that helps.

He was in the area.

That was convenient.

Yeah

the Sheffield Yard are going down.

Let's all accept this.

There's no chance they're staying up.

They tried really hard last night and it wasn't good enough against Liverpool who weren't playing particularly well.

They don't have the quality in the team.

They don't have anyone that's going to score the goals to get them out of it.

They don't have the quality in from goalkeeper right through his team.

They sold the best two players on the eve of the season.

They've tried to replace them with players that are, I would argue, slightly inferior.

They're going to try really hard for the rest of the season.

They're going to come up a bit short because they're not a Premier League team, unfortunately.

And

that's the nature of what's happening at Bramor Lane.

And I'm sure Chris Wilder will get the best out of them because that's the sort of coach he is.

And he did very well there last time, but they just don't have the quality.

And I don't think they're going to be having a big January to try and turn it around in terms of investment.

We could be 2008 Derby areas here, right?

They got five points after 15 games.

They're getting worse.

Like, what is that?

That translates to about 12 points over a 38-game game.

They were a little bit better last night.

They really were.

I only saw

the highlights, but the number of times that they let a Liverpool cross just bounce or, you know, or a free header 12 yards out.

And this is like the, you know, I don't want to sound like some ex-pro on talk sport, but these are the basics of football.

You know, you've got to defend your life, you've got to defend.

If you're a promotion team and you are not defending the area around your penalty spot when a cross comes in, then literally, what is the point of you?

In other news, Johnny Lou, I need to ask you, is there anything funny about 12.30 kickoff?

Well,

so I,

yeah, I mean, so this is, this is in reference to Klopp, who got, you know, some,

who got some, some,

it was it on, it was Amazon, right?

It was Amazon last night.

Yeah.

You know, some jokey question about 12.30 kickoffs.

That's just

losing it.

You find this funny.

You're a professional.

You find this funny.

You know, there are certain things.

You know, we got taught in our household there were certain things you don't joke about, you know, religion,

you know, politics, you know, tragedy,

you know, war, famine, death.

And now we can add, you know, I think we can add 12.30 kickoffs to that.

to that.

You know, maybe there was a time in the past where, you know, joking about, in a slightly less enlightened age, where you could joke about 12.30 kickoffs, you know, you'd see comedians from the past making gags about you know eating pasta for breakfast uh but we you know we live in a different age now what is it's not acceptable to the age you know people will rail about political correctness and um and you know things going woke but you know i think i think it's right that it's right that we have these these red lines as a society that we have things that say no this is beyond the pale this is beyond the boundaries of of good taste and and um you know i'm i'm just glad that that kloppers enforced that you know reinforced that line last night you can't say anything these days can you Just can't.

That's it for part two in part three.

More Premier League, and we'll also discuss the Women's Nations League.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

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Must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim.

Welcome back to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Brighton 2, Brentford 1.

Jack Hinshelwood of the Hinshelwood Footballing Dynasty.

Good to have another one.

Winning goal, 18 years old.

Another cliché coming.

Brighton with the great recruitment and the academy as well.

So Brighton, a deserved win, but...

Strange stat that they're the first team to score and concede in each of their opening 15 games of a top-flight campaign since Wolves did this in each of their first 16 matches back in 1934-35.

And I'm sure if Wilson was here, he'd tell us about the manager Frank Buckley's gung-ho style.

That's good research from producer Joel there.

Nils, they seem to be finding their inner Brighton again after a bit of time in the wilderness, Brighton.

Yeah, no, definitely.

And it's interesting what you said before about Steve Cooper sort of possibly being up for a job but then not getting sacked.

I think with Deserby, like he was he was

linked to too many troublesome clubs like Manchester United and Chelsea and he thought like let's have a bit of port form here just to sort of knock myself out of the running for those two messes.

um so no he's he's successfully done that and uh and now brighton can go back to being uh good again i think uh i think they did really well i mean there was like a i i i know all sort of all all teams seem to have like uh injury crises at the moment but um i think i think this game like the was it was like nearly 20 absentees in this game so so so i think i think i think uh brighton did well well both teams did well considering all the other players that were that were missing but uh but no like and that stat about uh goals conceded and scored again, that just points to the fact that whenever Brighton play, um, you kind of look forward to the game, whenever they're on tele or whatever, you kind of like, well, well, at least this will be a good game, and uh, and yeah, they're

and when they when they win, that's a bonus, so yeah, very, very, very, very good.

But, but, but, but also, like, like, I was, I was desperate for Deservey to sort of do a outlandish celebration again, just to sort of like double down and annoy Arsenal fans, but he didn't, he kind of held back,

but yeah, they still hold back.

I'm sure that's in the post,

isn't it?

Yeah, Brentford are surely up there with how many injuries we've got competition.

Balcom, Hickey, Aya, Collins, Henry, DeSilva, Norgard, Jensen, Shader,

Tony, unavailable, although will be available soon.

Damsgaard, and then Bumo came off injured in this game.

Did score a penalty, but they've got Ethan Pinnock, so they're going to be absolutely fine, as we know, with stands here on the Guardian Football Weekly for Ethan Pinnock.

Wolves won Burnley nil, Huang with the only goal.

Burnley started quite well, looked like they were going to build on their good 5-0 win over Sheffield United at the weekend until Wolves scored just before half-time.

Well, it looks like it is going to be a season of struggle for Burnley, isn't it?

Despite that really good win at the weekend.

Yeah, I mean,

the goal they conceded with their architects of their own downfall is that's how they're going to play.

They're going to pass out from the back and

it's not always going to work because they're not a Manchester City-level side.

Um, and it was a mistake, and that is unfortunate.

But companies are not going to change, we've all accepted that.

I was at the West Ham game where they all won the luck going into the 86-minute, and then West Ham equalised, and I was like, I'm not going to rewrite my intro here.

I think this is going to end up 2-1.

And it did, so that was convenient.

Yeah,

they're lacking Premier League quality.

Jay Rodriguez is up front.

Again, they beat Cheffy United 5-0, and that's and fair play to them, and whoever else does that this season.

But yeah,

it's going to be a struggle because they've got a lot of young players, limited Premier League experience.

Most of the players that have got Premier League experience, the last time they're in the Premier League, they got relegated.

You know, Sander Berg, Charlie Taylor, Brownhill, Goodmanson.

They've got a young goalkeeper.

It's going to be very difficult for them.

And

you know,

pragmatism won't allow a company to change to a slightly more robust style, I guess.

But, you know, they'll be entertained to watch.

They'll win a few games, but it's going to be an interesting struggle between that bottom and four.

But I'm looking forward to it.

I hope they stay up and maybe they can build on it.

But yeah, I think the problems with Bernie go back to some sort of very average recruitment in the summer, I'd say, and

very much sticking to the model they want to.

Sometimes it's not always black and white when it comes to signing players with a few grey areas, and maybe those grey areas are getting a bit more Premier League experience in but you know we'll see how they go

it was another really good finish from Huang his eighth of the season for Wolves just on a wider point out of the three

promoted teams I should say who do you think is gonna make the best fist of staying up Johnny I mean just from

what I've seen it looks like Luton just have

that little bit about them.

Maybe not the quality, but the sort of mentality, maybe.

Yeah, I think it is Luton.

And I think a it's a combination of the fact that uh kenilworth road is such it's such a tough place to go you know uh you know liverpool have struggled there i think city go there uh this weekend uh and obviously arsenal as well uh and the fact that you know they've they have this they have this blend of uh

they've they've they've signed experience, you know, they've signed kind of, you know, Premier League quality and, you know, the likes of Barclay and Andros Townsend, but they haven't kind of gone overboard on it.

They've just sort of sprinkled it through the team

like grated cheese.

So they still have essentially the core of

the squad that got them up from the championship.

And that comes with what we talked about earlier, like a defined identity.

And when times are tough, they will go through a spell where they probably don't win in 10 or 15.

That defined style,

building up through the wing backs and swinging crosses in and just being really solid and scrapping for second balls,

that will kind of stand them in good stead.

I think more than the other two sides, who I think have a,

you know, obviously Burnley have a defined style, they really do lack quality.

Sheffield United, I don't know what they try to do at all.

But

I still kind of expect all three of them to go down, but I think Luton are currently making the best fist of it.

To the Women's Nations League, so the two scorelines that mattered in terms of team GB failing to qualify, England six, Scotland nil, but Netherlands four, Belgium nil, a real roller coaster.

England went into this needing to better Netherlands score by three goals or more.

They were six still up, but then full-time at Hamden Park, and Netherlands scored another to mean that it's the Netherlands who go through to the Nations League finals, which was the way that Team GB were going to qualify for the Olympics in Paris.

You're no stranger to a controversial statement, Johnny.

Scotland were of course saying

we will not roll over.

We will not lose this because we are motivated to beat England.

And this sort of suggestion that because it's Team GB and some of our players might make the squad,

it makes no difference to us.

I don't think they did it.

They just weren't very good, were they?

No, exactly.

But I think you can't give it the big IAP.

You can't give it all this about, oh, you can't question our integrity and then defend like that.

It just doesn't sit right.

You know,

I'm not questioning their, you know, their sporting integrity, but I think you can definitely

contest their defensive integrity.

To be fair to them, I mean,

once they went, you know, I guess 5-0 down,

they played all right.

They actually had quite a few chances to

make it 5-1.

They certainly didn't lie down.

I think

it's a really inconsistent side.

And

for all the talent in it, I don't think, you know...

I don't think they can produce results on a consistent basis.

I think

they're get relegated to League B now or whatever it is.

And

England just ran over them.

And

there is this debate about whether

it's a good summer to miss.

But I think

if you talk to Viegman afterwards, or the players, they clearly wanted to play in Paris.

There's something special about an Olympic Games.

And maybe you don't get it so much in this country where England are constantly competing in international tournaments.

But the Olympics is special.

And particularly in women's football.

I hold a real special place in the heritage of the game and the growth of the game.

And, you know, they might, you know, people might be putting on a bit of a brave face now, but when they turn on their telly next summer and England aren't in it, it's going to hurt.

Well, Ellen White was part of our team, and that was the thing that really interested me was because obviously I was thinking, oh, we know good, they'll get a rest.

And is it that big a deal?

But when she played for Team GB, she said it was such an amazing experience because you're in the Olympic village, kind of mixing with all the other athletes.

And that was the experience that she really, really enjoyed.

Nor, would you like to take the Barry Glendenning question here?

Lauren James is good, isn't she?

She is.

At least there was no sort of

photo on social media by her brother where she's cropped out and he's like centre frame.

So that was good.

No,

I mean, I mean, does that happen?

Yeah,

he tweeted something like, I'm so proud of my sister or something.

And there was, she was like half cropped out of the picture, and he was he was sort of like the centre of it.

But yeah, no, I mean, the thing that the thing that I loved about that six-nil game was

as much as obviously Scotland got thrashed, like every save, every tackle was was

worth it because

ultimately like one more goal would have made all the difference.

So it just goes to show that you can get absolutely mauled, but uh but it does matter.

Every save, every sort of ditch tackle every every block um it was worth it just to just to piss on on england's parade so i love that and and and and and also um

and again like like i i i absolutely don't mean this in in a in a in a patron patronizing way but i i love the fact that uh again on social media it was such a big thing like everyone was everyone was invested there was there was other there was other games happening at the same time but uh certainly on on my timeline everyone was talking about this game and and the drama again.

I mean, it's bittersweet because, on the one hand, like it's it was amazing that everyone was invested and drama like this just uh amplifies uh women's football even more.

But then you kind of obviously you do kind of think, especially in this country, Selfishla, uh, the Olympics would have been, would have been great just to have that sort of involvement.

But uh, but yeah, no, it was uh,

I mean, I mean, any any sort of like uh

the more the more shithowsery in women's football, the better.

Agreed, agreed.

More of that, please.

Well, I'm not sure if you have a view on this, but the whole Team GB thing actually does seem to cause quite a lot of problems.

Not least because they were put in the same group, which probably could have been avoided, but

just generally, it really does seem to cause a few issues.

Yeah, I mean, it's in men's football, Team GB is obviously had London 2012, but it's never been a thing, and

no one really cares about it.

It is the biggest event.

Well, it was one of the biggest events at Women's Football.

You know, I spoke to Karen Carney recently, and she loved it and desperate that England

got there to help Team GP qualify.

But yeah, it's a very weird situation of how it's done.

Surely, if any of the four nations come top, they should,

you know, couldn't be in a qualifying position, then Team GP should qualify.

But yeah, it was very poorly organised on every level.

And, you know,

it's just a very strange concept that, you know, one team, four teams become one for a major tournament.

I mean,

might need to review how the qualification's done because it doesn't make any sense.

Well, that'll do for today, I think.

Just a word on Christine Sinclair's retirement from international football.

Finished an astonishing career in front of 48,000 fans at BC Place Stadium.

Temporarily renamed Christine Sinclair Place Canadian International.

331 caps, 190 international goals, a record.

Johnny Lou is on the move, leaving his hotel.

Can we follow you for the rest of the day, Johnny?

Do you think this is quite exciting?

I'd love to, but I'm about to get into the lift.

And I think I'm not sure the Wi-Fi is going to hold out.

But yeah, lovely.

Oh, shit.

Almost missed the lift.

We'll keep this going.

But Johnny, thank you so much for your time and hope you catch your train.

Thank you, Will.

Thank you very much.

And Joey Barton thinks you did very well today, Robin.

Well done.

Oh, thank you, sir.

That means a lot.

That means a lot.

I've had

my dad will write in as well, like Ramsdale's dads.

That's the thing now, isn't it?

Nos, thank you very much indeed.

Yeah, thanks a lot.

Yeah, and can I just say to

Australia and North London that I'm a massive ban of Big Ange, just for a better balance?

Because

when we ask questions on social media,

I was kind of shocked by the torrent of like, oh, is there going to be more propaganda?

So yeah, I'm just on on the other, I'm with you guys.

All I've been imagining since that tweet is Johnny being in the British Embassy in Australia, sort of Alad Bart Simpson getting booted through a gate

with a humongous boot.

Johnny seems to have gone now.

The Wi-Fi's gone there if we can say what we want about it.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, a lot of people have been saying the anti-USA agenda is nothing now compared to the anti-Aussie one.

Max will be back and that will certainly improve on that on that scale on Monday.

But we'll be back tomorrow.

Thank you so much for listening.

Bookball Weekly is produced by Joel Grove, and our executive producer is Max Sanderson.

This is The Guardian.