The Premier League returns and Euro 2024 chat – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

The Premier League returns, one of those early kickoffs that Jürgen Klopp loves as Liverpool go to the Etihad, the top two facing each other.

Possibly a little early to call it a title decider.

Also, today a big vote to allow Ruben Neves to move to Newcastle, and he doesn't want to go and they don't want him, and yet an energy-sapping move that makes it nicer for multi-club ownership that just doesn't feel quite right.

Eddie Howe has so many injuries, the word ravage seems acceptable as Chelsea come to St James's Park.

Arise Sean Dysches, Dogs of War, those dogs have been docked 10 points.

Will Manchester United feel the Goodison Wrath?

There's the Battle of the High Lines, a Spurs play Villa in a game that presumably would only take place around the centre circle.

After that, we'll round up the final Euros qualifiers as Wales have to settle for a playoff place and Stephen Kenney leaves Ireland.

Then there's some live tour back slapping your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Tom says, Are you not all exhausted?

I'm surprised there haven't been any injuries.

How much pod is too much pod?

Will you give the kids a chance for the next international break, which is in four months, thank God?

And Charlie says, Can this lineup possibly reach the high bar for energy levels?

And expert analysis set by the lineup on Tuesday's episode, an all-time favourite episode in my eyes on the panel today uh live with me in brighton barry glandening welcome hello max and nikki bandini hello give him money and johnny lou was on stage with us in brighton but managed to get the last train home and uh is back in his house hey johnny hi max

how are you i was asleep about 11 minutes ago okay uh so until that until that point i was i was fine i was fine at that point i apologise now i'm worrying.

I'm sorry.

I've had a bracing walk along the beach, the pebbles of Brighton Beach.

A couple of lunatics in the sea swimming.

Wow.

Didn't have wetsuits on for a plate of them.

I had a hearty breakfast, so I'm full of beans.

Wow, here we go.

Literally,

a very helpful hotel where they sort of, you know, they sort of shepherd you to your table and literally don't leave you alone and ask you how each individual bean is tasting.

Anyway, Man City Liverpool, big one in the title race.

Man City have won their last 23 home games in all competitions.

Liverpool have only won one of their last 14 away at City.

An early kickoff is to give City adequate time to recover ahead of their Champions League match with RB Leipzig on Tuesday.

Perhaps, Barry, it means they don't have adequate time for all their players to be ready for this one, since most of them have flown back in a big plane together from South America.

Yeah, well, I was sort of under the impression that...

This was an early kickoff because of the crowd trouble that occasionally occurs before these games.

Possibly.

I think at the corresponding fixture last season the Liverpool team bus was attacked as it pulled up outside the Atiyad.

But I could be mistaken.

I'm really looking forward to this game.

I think last year, I think it was in April

this game really showed up Liverpool's many shortcomings that were you know fairly apparent anyway.

But they took the lead

but then Jordan Henderson and Fabinho were completely overrun in midfield.

They're they've since left the club and and replacements have been drafted in.

So we'll see how they get on.

Um Erling Harland didn't play in this game, but City still won pretty comfortably.

Jack Grealish had a arguably his best game of the season and it w I think it was the game where

Jon Stones was was basically made it took his bow as a a midfielder, made his debut as a midfielder, stepping out of defence into midfield and giving Liverpool all sorts of problems.

So it'll be interesting to see what tricks, if any, both managers, I suppose, have up their sleeves for this game.

But it's a much improved Liverpool side that is travelling to the Etiette.

And Haaland's out

with a foot injury that he sustained playing for Norway.

No Edison, Nikki, Kovacic, Jake, and Matthias Nunes as well.

So

is it a good time to play Manchester City?

I'll have to ask that question.

I mean, there's never a good time to go away to city, I don't think.

Especially, what, to be fair, I was thinking to myself just now, the good time to go Manchester City is when Roderay is unavailable, but he is available, so that one doesn't work.

But

I suppose you could argue that missing the best striker in the Premier League and maybe the best in the whole world is probably a good time to play them.

Yeah, there's worse times you could play them.

Yeah, I think so.

Johnny, how do you feel about, you know, Jürgen Klopp doesn't like the early kickoff?

And he just says, look, how can you put a game like this on at 12.30 on a Saturday?

Honestly, the people making these decisions, they cannot feel football.

And it is the moment where the world pays the most to see a football game.

These two teams could have altogether about 30 international players.

They all come back on the same plane.

All the South American players, they all fly back together.

We put them on a plane from Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia.

One game, one plane.

They all come back.

We have to make sure we are ready for this game.

I mean, there's just too much football, right?

I mean, if they're playing out in Brazil or wherever, and then they've got...

European football next week, these games have to be played.

Whenever you schedule this game, it's going to be annoying.

Either it's too soon or it's too near the European Games.

Yeah.

I mean, during the

there was a massive heat wave in the summer of 2015.

And my five-aside team, because of fixture pilot, other teams didn't join the league until a little bit later.

We had to play two games in a row at seven and then 7.45 in over 30-degree heat.

And frankly, Joken Klopp,

I don't know what on earth you're complaining about.

We got handily beaten in both games, to be fair.

But, you know,

we didn't complain.

put up we didn't say it was a crime against football we didn't say the the organizers of power league couldn't feel the game they were just trying to get a league on and and here's jogen klop every single time oh well we can't we can't possibly play at 1230 because did you this is genuinely true last time he said because the players have to eat pasta at 9am

i think that's a really good reasoning i couldn't do that i once played um many years ago when i was younger a 12-hour football marathon which was rolling fiver games for 12 hours.

And the next day, I physically couldn't move any part of my body.

It was awful.

But this lunchtime kickoff thing,

it's just put me in mind because I know Baz is a big fan of terrible protests, like marching to a stadium you're going to anyway, singing songs, you probably would have said them anyway.

But initially, when they first introduced the 12.30 kickoffs, there was one of the most sort of impressively tepid protests I can remember, which was the Palmer fans did the Protesta del Panino, which sounds better in Italian because it literally just means the sandwich protest.

And what it was was at 12.30 when the game kicked off, everyone got out a sandwich and started eating it instead of cheering.

Quite nice, isn't it?

Johnny, what Liverpool's midfield has been really impressive so far.

Have they got enough there to do something against City?

I mean, let's find out, I guess.

It is exciting

because they have kind of totally

revamped that midfield.

And it's actually been one of the really positive and exciting aspects of their season, the way they've pretty much reinvented it.

So, you know, seeing how the likes of Endo and Gravenberg

and Shopbush Live, they play, handle

a Manchester City midfield, which, if you remember their last game at Chelsea, was

actually found itself in a bit of trouble.

That was an end-to-end game that City just tried to put the brakes on time and time again and tried to exert some control over and just couldn't do it.

And the way that Chelsea went about that game, I mean, I hesitate to call it a template because every team will have their own style and strategy, but the way that Chelsea managed to get about City in midfield and then stretching them through the likes of Cole Palmer and Sterling.

I wonder if Liverpool will have watched that and thought, well, maybe we don't just need to kind of block up this midfield and sit tight and wait for our opportunities.

Maybe if we absolutely smash into them from the first whistle, there is a chance to expose a few weaknesses

that Chelsea did a couple of weeks ago.

I think there's like a really fascinating,

I guess, like one of the battles and inner battle on the right-hand side.

I mean, Salah's having an exceptional season.

So, of course, with Harlan not being there, the focus on the season Salah having is even more sort of, I guess, to the fore.

And on that side, Doku's been great going forward, but is he really going to give you that much defensively?

And Guvardio had an absolute shocker against Chelsea, as I remember.

So that side of the pitch is,

I mean, the problem is it's City and they're at home.

But you look at that and think, well, you can get at them there.

And you've got maybe the best player in the league for getting at them there.

Any thoughts, Buzz?

No, not really.

Beyond what's been said already, it's a game that could go either way.

We know City have off days.

I don't think it's anything resembling a title decider.

And,

you know, as I said already, this game fixture really highlighted Liverpool's weaknesses last year, like, really exposed them.

And Klopp has done his utmost to strengthen in those areas.

And we will see what,

you know, the proof of the pudding will come on

Saturday.

I expect City to win, but I, you know, I wouldn't be totally astonished if they got beaten either.

Newcastle play Chelsea, and on that note, there was that vote this week.

A motion submitted by the Premier League that would have temporarily banned player loans between clubs that share common ownership, so-called related party transactions, failed to earn a sufficient majority at the meeting.

It was defeated 12-8.

League rules require a minimum of 14 votes for any motion to pass.

Proposal to change the rules have come about after concerns were raised over Newcastle United potentially using their Saudi Arabian links to buy Reuben Nevers or get him on loan from Al-Hilal this winter.

It turns out that they don't really want him and he doesn't want to go.

I think someone tweeted about, you know, it was just some transfer gossip that led to this whole vote.

It is unusual for a motion proposed by the league to be rejected by the league, right?

So it was Newcastle, Man City, Burnley, Forest, Chelsea, Sheffield United Wools, and Everton who voted against it.

Johnny, how serious is this?

In itself, I don't think it's a huge deal because this is,

you know, I think, as I've said before, the the cat's kind of out of the bag on this the rules on multi-club ownership which is the future model for the game that's a kind of that's the rolling snowball that you can't put back in the bag insofar as you you know you want to put a snowball in a bag um what i'm saying is that the time to stop this the time to to kind of put the brakes on wasn't you know it was probably several years ago when City Football Group, for example, were buying up clubs all around the world, when, you know, big clubs in the Premier League were having, was setting up these strategic partnerships with clubs in Central Europe.

And obviously,

if you own more than one club,

you're going to try and do deals between them.

And now you have a situation where the PIFs of Saudi Arabia own

four, I think it's like the top four teams or four of the top teams

in a league.

This is you know, it's an unprecedented situation.

And I don't think football regulations are anywhere near up to speed for dealing with this kind of scenario.

So I think

the Premier League has always been run on naked self-interest and the clubs that voted with Newcastle this time, they may not have multi-club ownership but they certainly see a future in which they themselves can profit from it.

So I think that that explains why so many clubs who have been potentially hostile to Newcastle's rise have voted for them this time.

It is a phenomenon that is actually just

represents what football is going to look like in the next couple of decades.

Jack Bitbrooke from the Athletic tweeting, Ian Holloway complaining about Watford loaning all those Odinese players in 2013.

It's basically the scientist at the start of the disaster film who knows what's around the corner but isn't listened to at the time.

It just sort of nikki, it intrinsically, multi-club ownership intrinsically feels wrong.

Is it intrinsically wrong?

I mean, I suppose,

I guess it sort of depends on your postmodern view of the world, doesn't it?

I mean, as someone who grew up with an idea of what a football club was and that sort of

I guess it was already probably teetering by that point, but still felt like something that was

more embedded in its community and came from its community.

I think you have one idea of football.

Whereas I think that the truth is that football clubs,

even that word club, is going to start to feel anachronistic at a certain point, because really what we're talking about is brands.

And you now have, as we've talked about, multi-club ownership you've got groups in some cases nation states that own a series of clubs and effectively that's going to be a brand and I think we're going to eventually see football move more and more towards a place where the brand has its global imprint and it's going to move its assets around that global sort of structure that it has as it wants to and I think that football

hasn't really opposed that at any step that it's been happening and I don't see how it's suddenly going to start now I did say on the stage show last night the problem with these meetings in England everyone sort of has the meeting, votes the way they vote and then shrug and and leave afterwards.

What you need is a few more Italian presidents to approach situation like earlier did Lorentzwood where he calls everyone a dickhead and jumps on a moped and with a stranger and shoots off into the night and then it makes you get some sort of uh um kickback maybe.

So in practice, what does this mean, Barry?

It means that, you know, if dude Bellingham signed for Al Hillal.

Well, there's no financial fair play in the Saudi league.

So in theory,

Newcastle currently have 14 players unavailable for one reason or another, injury, suspension, whatnot.

Yeah, Lewis Hall can't play because

he's on loan from Chelsea.

So

theoretically,

one of those PIF-owned clubs in Saudi Arabia could

use their limitless wealth to buy Jude Bellingham and or Evan Ferguson from Real Madrid and Brighton, respectively, and then loan them to Newcastle, agree to pay all their wages.

So Newcastle suddenly have Evan Ferguson and Jude Bellingham on loan, presuming they haven't exceeded their quota of five loanes,

and

they're not paying any money for them.

It's only an extension of what the ultra-wealthy have always done, which is find ways to avoid

ways to avoid whatever regulations it is.

If it's, I don't want to pay all my taxes, I'm going to have an offshore account and I'll work out ways to not pay the full amount of my taxes.

Now it's, well, if I don't want to work within the constraints of this financial fair play system, well, maybe we can have, you know, our offshore football clubs and we can move them around and have everything we want to do.

That's the way that this is going.

And the problem is that I don't really think the FA has the power to restrict that.

The only people who could really restrict that are FIFA.

And, I mean, expecting FIFA to do that is

pie in the sky.

Yeah.

Um onto this game in as Baz has suggested Johnny at Newcastle have so many players out look chelsea they beat spurts 4-1 and got no credit then they drew with city and got all the credit but you just when you feel chelsea have turned a corner they tend to turn back around the corner don't they but you could see them going to newcastle and doing quite well here yeah i i think that the problem with chelsea is more

they have performed they performed really well against high-line teams that are teams that come with them a little bit um that basically give them space to run into behind where they have this incredible

this incredible battery of pace

to

attack teams on the flanks

and on the counter-attack against

teams that have sat back against them.

I think, I mean, Brentford

is an example that springs to mind.

They have struggled.

They've actually struggled to break those teams down.

Now, what we've seen from them is it is a kind of evolution.

in terms of the cohesion the players that obviously have come from you know

come out of this huge turbulence and are learning to play with each other.

You see those relationships developing

between, for example, the likes of Kaisedo and Enzo in midfield.

And obviously you have the confidence that comes from beating Spurs and drawing against City.

So yeah, it will be a totally different kind of test for them playing against a Newcastle.

And we all know how Newcastle player they are, you know, Athletico Titanside.

But they clearly are going in the right direction, Chelsea.

And I think this is a real test of whether they can break down a team that isn't just going to run at them and give them the space that they want.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we will carry on our Premier League preview with Everton Man United.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So then to Goodison, some reaction from our discussion of the 10-point penalty.

David said a message for, well, it was a message for you, Baz, but it says, that Brian fellow is a complete bellend, always has an anti-Everton agenda.

So I don't know where he gets it from.

But listen, Brian, you should be nicer to the Evertonians.

I don't have an anti-Everton agenda.

I'm completely indifferent to Everton.

I presume he thinks I have one because I said they deserve their punishment.

I mean, they kind of agreed themselves they were in the wrong

and their only complaint is about the severity of their punishment, not the punishment itself, or not the fact that they were punished.

I think they'll appeal.

I think the punishment will be reduced.

They've been docked 10 points.

But I presume David and many thousands of like-minded individuals who think everyone is, who you know, most of us couldn't care less about Everton, will

all be at Goodison feeling paranoid that the the world is out to get them because they've been punished for breaking some rules, clearly defined rules, and they will rally behind their team in tremendous fashion.

I expect everything to be absolutely fine because the teams at the bottom of the league are so bad that I think they'll finish well clear of the relegation zone.

But, you know, we've seen the siege mentality.

at Goodison Park before.

It's going to be heightened now.

They're playing a Manchester United team who apparently are in form,

top of the forum table.

You wouldn't know to look at them.

And I won't be a bit surprised.

I actually expect Everton to win this game.

Yeah.

That is, you know, the nature of football fandom, Nikki, is that, you know, if something goes against you, justified or not, you do, you do sort of decide that the world is against you.

And like, Sean Dice is like the perfect person there to sort of create this whole...

I mean, I just think that the noise at Goodison for that, you know, that kickoff will be amazing yeah definitely I I think the points penalty is just

I it's one of those areas of the football rules I guess where because there isn't precedent and there isn't really like

a written down hard set of rules on well if you break this rule by this amount this is how many points you get penalized it all feels a bit like pulling a number out of the air right like how did we get to 10 points that's the bit that feels a bit sort of mysterious and and I think that whatever number they put on that it would have felt the same so it's just a a bit of a sort of abstract question which is why the appeal is also going to be sort of interesting and

you know again without wanting to always go back to comparisons to italy when you've entered their points penalty last season at least there was a clear guideline which was basically that they wanted it to be just enough to keep them out of europe they felt like that was the adequate punishment was that you deserve not to play in europe you can't put it on a sliding scale can you for everton you can't say well listen we're going to give you a points deduction means you survive by a point and whatever that is that'll be what it is but yeah of course the fans will will take it and and and um and and use that as as i imagine fuel to to be even more um behind their team on the weekend and same as baz i think everton are easily good enough to stay up this season even with a 10 points penalty even though a 10 points penalty is a lot i mean if that sticks it's not it's not a small amount it's it's a big chunk but i think there are there are some bad teams at the bottom of the Premier League this season.

Man United are missing a lot of players.

Martinez, Malassia, probably Hoyland, Ericson, Casimiro, Johnny Evans.

Did you see, Johnny,

the leak?

I don't know how much truth there is to it.

A section of Manchester United players believe the team's poor start is down to Eric Ten Hark overworking the squad in pre-season.

They've complained of beginning the campaign feeling as tired as when they finished the previous one.

Those discontented include several senior squad members, The Guardian's been told.

It's understood none have explicitly aired their concerns to the manager, which seems like something you would...

you could do.

It would be better than telling someone who isn't at the club.

Ten Hark believes his players are fully committed and comprehend the need for sacrifice if you need United are to be consistently successful.

What do you make of it?

Yeah, I mean, I saw the league.

I mean, it's a very leaky dressing room, and these things always tend to

rear their heads when,

well, I mean, they're not in crisis, are they?

The results haven't been going the wrong way, they've just been in their usual kind of cycle of chaos.

I think, you know, Ten Hog had a he always had a, he came in with a lot of credit last season after what he did at the start of the season.

But like a, I guess, like a politician or like a party leader, you annoy, you know, you annoy one faction and you just create more disgruntled rebels on the back benches.

So he bombs Cristiano Ronaldo out.

And okay, fine.

Some of the Portuguese-speaking players at the club weren't delighted about that.

Ronaldo was kind of a popular guy in certain sections of the dressing room, but fine.

He's got enough credit in the bank.

Then he bombs out Jaden Sancho.

And, you know, again, Sancho is not the most popular guy, but he has mates in that dressing room as well.

It's the way that Harry Maguire was treated in the summer where they tried to sell him and then that whole saga, whether he'd go or not, and then was basically frozen out of the team and then brought back in.

That's going to piss off a few people in that dressing room.

So now you have a situation where

there's approaching a critical mass of players in the United dressing room that Ten Hogg has pissed off somehow.

And

as long as results are going okay, as long as the team is picking up points, you know, you can just about hold that together.

But you can just sense that at a club like United, as ever, two defeats or, you know, a bad month and suddenly this whole, this whole, a whole full-blown crisis breaks out.

And that's the thing about United.

They can be top of the form table.

They can be challenging for the top four.

They can be sort of, they can be on a run, but you just feel that.

fragility to them it's all it's just it's always on the verge of blowing up and and i think you know that's still kind of where they are um so what he needs is good vibes which is what you get the total hotspurs stadium Tottenham play Villa fourth v fifth, the Battle of the High Lines.

I mean, it's really big for both of these sides actually, Baz.

If you look at you know where they are in the table and sort of the momentum that Villa have and the fact that the Spurs need to arrest that mini slide of two defeats in a row.

Yeah, um

so they've lost against Chelsea and Wolves.

The the Wolves won you know, it was a very late comeback by Wolves, but Tottenham thoroughly deserved to lose and probably should have lost by more.

They have quite a few personnel issues as well, as well as Van Perisich is out long-term, Van Der Vin,

Madison, Manor Solomon, Romero, Basuma, Hudu Oogie, and

Ryan Sessignon all absent.

I do be back because it's a game, yeah.

I think he's injured, though.

Is he?

It's a shame.

Yeah, I think he's injured.

I looked at their injury list, and he was on.

He might be touch and go, I don't know.

anyway Villa have a pretty decent away record they've won five their last six in all competitions if they can beat Spurs here and there's every chance they will

yeah that's our Spurs in crisis then three in a row

having started so well yeah Mark says Johnny how do you rate Spurs and the vibes impact of the new manager I mean we were on stage in Brighton so we might have we we are slightly aware of your feelings towards these vibes.

Yeah, I think that I think they'll, I think they'll win against Villa, but I've just, I'm not having, I'm just not having Ange.

I'm not having Ange Postacoglu.

I just,

I am, I am not.

You're the one person.

You're beginning the backlash.

As a coach, I just, I can't stand him.

I just like to go.

How can you not stand him?

He's a lovely man.

He comes across as a lovely man.

All of the people that, oh, he's great.

He's just a great bloke.

Nobody knows him.

you all you know about him is the little sort of 45 second clips you get from press conferences and whatever that that turn up on your twitter feed every every week where he's going oh oh look you know

we just love football and mate mate if you you know if you come from where i've come from you know

melbourne and you know playing with my dad on a saturday and when they'd go off and have some

some food after and we'd watch Johan Crif on the on the television and oh god it just it just you know it makes your heart sing, you know, and football just football just does that to you, mate.

It's just, it's just the greatest game in the world.

And, you know, we all want this so much.

And honestly, it's just such bullshit.

It's absolutely.

Isn't there a place, you know, amid all the, you know, the sort of the cynicism and brutality and depressing things about the game, isn't it nice to have someone to say, actually, I mean, that is what football is about, right, isn't it?

Football is about nostalgia and memories of your, you know, your mum or your dad and taking you to old games and that and watching VHSs of Jimmy Grease or whatever.

I mean, that is sort of what football is.

And so it's just nice that someone is reminding us of that.

Well,

it is in the sense that coaching is, these days, is not so much about

the technical side of things because...

uh you know league position is is defined by wage bill and a hundred other external factors and and you as a coach your job is basically you are you are the vibes guy you are you're the guy who has to try to sell the journey and make people feel really good about it and that's that's what he's he's been good at he's an unbelievable salesman he is an unbelievable talker i think on on the pitch you know things the things have been going well but they have a they have a good squad you know they were there was a kind of a thirst there for these really good players to just oh well go out and play with a high line and i'm not i'm not saying that he hasn't coached them well, but I'm just saying he hasn't coached them brilliantly.

He's just

said some things, made them feel good about themselves.

And these good players have been kind of infused with good vibes.

What we're seeing now, and what we're going to see over the medium and long term, I think, is that the Spurs are going to regress.

They are nowhere near title contenders.

They don't have a coach or a squad that's going to get them anywhere near the title race.

They'll probably drop back to about sixth or seventh because there are far better funded and

better teams and better coached teams out there.

But the prevailing memory of this season will be that, oh, it's a fantastic.

Do you remember how we felt in October?

Do you remember how Andre, how Angel said these really nice things in October and November?

And that, you know, he will be able to sell this whole, this whole season as a success.

I mean, it took Mourinho a year to start looking for his next job.

Andrew's already at it.

Like, if you go back through the history of Ange, like the 2014 World Cup, everyone loved that team.

That Socceroos team, you know, they charmed the world.

They played, you know, fighting aggressive football, lost all three games.

The Enjoy Your Lunch speech.

Do you remember the Enjoy Your Lunch?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I I watch it every morning.

Yeah.

See to the goal in two minutes.

They were one nil down off two minutes.

So

when you said that, you know, elite coaching, like elite coaching is surely more than just vibes.

You know, isn't that the whole point of Guardiola, right?

That he is, you know, he looks at a season, he gets a team, you know, they're there or thereabouts, and then he works something out, like, you know, moving John Stones into midfield and then suddenly they just run away with it.

I mean, obviously they have lots of money as well, but it isn't just.

But how many coaching geniuses are there?

This is, this is, I wrote a column about this.

I wrote a column about this a few weeks ago.

How many genuinely great coaches are there out there?

Nobody really knows.

We think probably Guardiola.

We think almost certainly Guardiola and Klot,

but everyone else is just kind of

flailing around, pointing, pointing, pointing at things.

There's been all kinds of research done on this that the effect of one coach over another is almost never measurable.

I was just going to, I do think the vibes thing is actually genuine.

I think a lot of football management is vibes, and I think that's like a weird thing to say.

It doesn't mean, I think maybe I disagree with Johnny a bit about like the impact that managers are having because I think that's not something that's

saying that word can make it sound trivial when it isn't.

You know, I feel like managers I've interviewed, managers I've spoken to, you talk to them about like, oh, the tactical stuff.

And yeah, a lot of them have, especially in Italy, a lot of them have very sort of strong tactical views.

But almost all of them will tell you, well, that's only like actually a small percentage of what's important like what's important is that I can speak to my players I can work out what they need and I do that individual work and I've got a coaching staff to help me all the other stuff what I do best and what I think is most important is is getting under the skin of of my players and understanding what they need from me and I think that you know in sort of a big picture is vibes right

and actually Johnny's right that there's not that many great tactical innovators I always find it hilarious that Max Allegri has a tactics app a legri tactics app and he literally like in every interview would be like tactics don't matter.

Like,

if you listen to him talk, I say, tactics don't matter, and I come up with things in a sort of very, you know, he calls himself Estrozzo.

He talks about being someone who just like comes up with things on a whim sometimes and changes his team selections like that.

So, he, this idea that all of them are great tactical thinkers is definitely rubbish.

But I think the vibes part of it really is what we used to call management.

Yeah, and actually, doesn't, but I mean, I guess a football squad is like any workplace bass, right?

And if vibes are good, people are better, right?

I've always, the longer I've, you know, worked in this small box that we're in, but you know, just generally, like, if you, if you create a good vibe and people want to be there, then they'll be better.

Yeah, I'd imagine so.

Um, that goes without saying.

And

but I do think there is a lot more to coaching than that.

I'm not an Eddie Howe fan, but

you know, if you look at the manner in which he has improved several Newcastle players, it can't just be that photo

who,

you know, were really really poor, or possibly some of whom couldn't even get a look in under Steve Bruce.

Joe Ellington's the obvious answer, but there are others.

LaSalle, Jacob Murphy, Sean Longstaff, all

much improved players under Howe than they were under Bruce.

There's more to that than him just putting an arm around the shoulder and telling them the...

Same goes for Una Emery, right?

Yeah, oh, absolutely.

Yeah, that's another great example.

But I'm intrigued to know

Johnny says Ange Ange is

the impassioned rant he went on on stage last night against Postagogli was quite something.

I was it's worth paying for

anyway.

He did the live show and catch up with it.

Yeah, um,

you say he's a great salesman, but he he just sounds like a perfectly normal human being, and I think that's part of his charm.

Yeah, he sounds like a perfectly normal human being.

But, like, how do you know he is, right?

This is this is the thing.

He is able to sell authenticity.

And I don't doubt that, you know, there is a kernel of something really like genuinely heartwarming and whatever in that, in his story.

But the way that he has almost kind of commodified it, and it may be an entirely unthinking process, right?

But the way he's managed to commodify it or, you know, it is.

it is sold as a kind of authenticity in this bad, big, bad league.

That's the part of it I think doesn't, it doesn't quite ring true for me because I don't think it's remotely sustainable.

It's a product of Spurs fans just feeling despondent and needing something new and

the Premier League just needing content and

people who need content needing something new and shiny

to hang their hat on.

Yeah.

Or maybe he's just a really nice bloke.

I mean, like,

actually,

the small insight I have from people who've known him for years and years and and years in Australia is, yeah,

this is real, and he may be nice forever.

Well, he's kind of made a rod for his own back now because when he was invited to criticise referees in the wake of Spurs being on the wrong end of several decisions that were all correct,

he said, you know, he did his all might.

You just, there comes a point where you just have to accept referees' decisions, you know, and if we don't, we'll be, everything will be refereed by some men in a box, you know, several miles away or in a bunker.

So he's made him a rod for his own packet in that regard, insofar as at some point Spurs will be on the wrong end of some very egregious decisions, and then he kind of can't complain, can he?

Or the mask will have been shown to have slipped.

Elsewhere, Arsenal go to Brentford.

David Riker can't play because he's on loan.

So got me be harsh if Arteta didn't pick Ramsdale for this one, wouldn't it?

Maybe he'll try Kai Havertz at left back as he did for Germany.

Burnie West Ham, Luton Palace, Forest, Bryant, Sheffield United Bournemouth are the other games.

And we'll, of course, look back at them on Monday.

The Sheffield United Bournemouth one is quite interesting

in a sort of your also round fixtures.

In that it's Sheffield United, they've hit a run of form insofar as they've won a game and and drawn a game and not lost in two.

But this is their first match against any of their fellow strugglers, unless, you know, not counting Everton, who are only now among the strugglers because of that deduction.

And Bournemouth Goro into the game on the back of a win, which

obviously is good for them to get that win on the board, but the Newcastle team they beat was

incredibly depleted.

So I wouldn't read too much into that particular result so I think this is quite a significant game at the bottom okay that'll do for part two part three we'll round up the euro qualifiers

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Wales drew with Turkey.

Croatia beat Armenia.

There was a moment where Wales were ahead and Croatia were drawing and and we thought, oh, maybe Wales would get through, but it means they're in the playoffs.

They'll play either Ukraine, Iceland or Finland in March.

And if they win that, and that game is definitely at home, they will play Poland or Estonia.

And the home side of that will be decided by a draw.

And there are lots of paths, semi-final paths of who might play who in the playoffs.

So by all accounts, they played very well against Turkey.

And it was a slightly dodgy penalty that they conceded amidst all the dodgy penalties that now exist in football.

Nikki, thank you for your voice note the other day.

That definitely helped because we didn't watch a lot of Ukraine Italy while we were on stage in Dublin.

Italy are in pot four which is well I think fun.

I presume Italy don't think it's fun for the Euros.

Yeah I mean it's such an odd situation isn't it?

It's literally the reigning champions, the team that won this tournament last time are in the bottom pot.

I was saying this on the stage last night.

The most sort of perfectly optimistic take I've seen on Italy being in pot four is because every other team in pot four is going to be determined by the playoffs.

Italy are in fact the only team that when the draw is made will know before the draw is made that they're going to know all of their opponents at the start of the draw.

So everyone else will have to wait a little while longer.

Other than that, I'm not seeing many perks to being in pot four.

Yeah, well actually Serbia, Switzerland also will are in the same.

They're in pot four.

They know they're in the pot four.

Yeah but there are the three playoff winners.

England are in pot one and Scotland in pot three.

That draw is the start of December, isn't it?

Yeah, on the subject of the Czech manager leaving, Matic from the Czech Czech Republic got in touch to say

the coach Yaroslav Silavi has actually been under a lot of pressure in our country in the last year or so, even though nobody in the rest of the footballing world or not footballing world cares about Czechs, he says.

The general public here actually have pretty high standards when it comes to our team performances after a draw against Moldova and a 3-0 defeat in Albania.

There were lots of people who wanted him to be sacked.

The fact we didn't manage to qualify until our last home game is considered to be embarrassing here.

The last draw was the fact that three players, Kuzzta Brabecz and Vladimir Sufal, went clubbing till late at night on Saturday, two days before the deciding match.

They were sent home and Silavi thought it was a terrible betrayal from them.

It doesn't seem inopportune to go nightclubbing two days before your vital match.

I'll be honest at this stage of my life it just seems inopportune to go nightclubbing.

I think you're right.

At any point.

I read an article in The Guardian about

quite a bleak article about the last time you do anything.

And there's always this thing saying, you know, there will be a last time you pick up your child because eventually they'll be like, dad, I'm I'm 15.

What are you doing?

And, you know, the sort of last time you do anything.

So, yeah, and in that thing, he said, you know, I've probably, it's probably the, I've never, never going to go back to a nightclub.

So there was a last time.

But the last time I went to a nightclub, I was punched in the face by a five-foot-tall girl who was dressed as a clown.

I mean, I'm not, I wasn't doing anything wrong, I'd like to point out.

So

it was a nice way to go.

Sure,

I was actually being quite kind.

Anyway,

he says,

the thing about that is

if the option for you to go clubbing is there,

you know, like say if your kid is 27 years old and 18 stone, the option to

pick him up is not really there.

That's true, that's true.

Anyway, Mate says we should have a new manager that will prepare us for the Euros at the beginning of 2024.

That is the Czech story in some context.

Love your podcast, keep it up.

The good work.

On the subject of countries we hate, I believe we got some criticism for not

doing a deep dive on Northern Ireland's amazing win over Denmark.

With apologies.

We did say the goals were good.

Brazil-nil Argentina won.

They were good.

They were lovely goals.

But, you know, there's only so much time we have.

So, look, Brazil-Argentina won.

And actually, some really quite worrying scenes where the Brazilian police charged the Argentina fans in response to some fighting in the stands during the national anthems.

Visiting supporters responded by ripping up and throwing seats at the officers.

Fans near the trouble panicked, came onto the pitch to to escape the fighting.

I think Emi Martinez at one point sort of jumped up and tried to stop a policeman aiming a bat on at a fan.

Players eventually returned, the match started and Argentina won.

So Brazil have slipped to their third straight defeat.

First ever at home in a World Cup qualifier, apparently.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's Brazil in sixth place, which actually is a qualifying place now in South American qualifying.

I thought it wasn't, but yes, so it seems very hard.

It's almost impossible for Brazil not to qualify for the World Cup.

And we probably want Brazil to qualify for the World Cup, don't we?

seventh place goes into that playoff

Republic of Ireland one New Zealand won happened on stage while we're in Dublin thank you to everyone from Dublin who came to our show instead of watching that vitally important game for the boys in green Stephen Kenney has left his role in charge of them.

A statement on the FAI website says, having reviewed the Euro 2024 qualification campaign in its entirety and recognising how difficult the group was, the results needed to realize our goal of qualification were not achieved.

How long do you have to review it in its entirety?

Just look at, having looked at the table, we've noticed we haven't qualified.

The board agrees that now is the right time for a change ahead of the friendly matches in March and June 2024, the next Nations League campaign starting in September 2024.

That's probably the right decision, isn't it?

Yeah.

Kenny came in, he talked a good game, he didn't deliver.

He was always

talking about, you know, looking ahead to the next set of fixtures, and he very much made qualifying for the Euros a priority.

And Ireland more or less were out of the group after two games.

So I'm not sure who'll take over or what they'll be able to do with that set of players.

We have some decent players.

We have Evan Ferguson, but there's not much quality there.

And now there's no competitive fixtures for, God, what is it, a year?

More?

Neil Lennon is favourite.

Lee Carsley.

Yes.

Apparently, five to two.

It says Lee Carsley and Roy Keene, joint second favourites.

Steve Bruce, Chris hewton gus poet big sam jesus that's a seriously uninspiring list of raffa benitez i'd love big sam there um daniel says they can't afford big sam i mean they can't afford half of those people on it

uh

because the the far like

51 million pounds in debt that

i wouldn't imagine ticket sales for are going to be you know, particularly high in the next

year or two because there's no competitive fixtures and they don't have a sponsor for the senior men's team so i

you know i can't see i wouldn't mind seeing big sam in there just to see what he'd do but he'd have to take a massive

you know what he would see as a pay cost

or derisory stipend to do the job uh daniel says can horsham win the fa cup through repeated administrative errors

the magic of the cut barnsley have been expelled for fielding an ineligible player uh in their 3-0 3-0 first-round replay at Horsham on the 14th of November.

So the seventh-tier side, Horsham, now go to Sutton in League Two.

So good luck to them.

Carl says, I had a great time at the show in Dublin on Monday.

Great job, everyone.

I didn't get my act together enough to ask a question.

Has Barry ever referred to himself as a Biffo?

A term of endearment for anyone from the beautiful county of Offaly?

Well, it's not really a term of endearment because it's an acronym for big ignorant fucker from Offley.

And it was kind,

I think, to describe Brian Cowan, who used to be the Taoiseach slash Prime Minister of Ireland,

who is from my neck of the woods.

And yeah, that someone described him as a before, big, ignorant fucker from Offley.

Mike says, Hi, Max and Crew.

Wanted to get in touch, express my appreciation for your efforts on a very enjoyable show in Dublin on Monday night.

It was lovely to meet everyone afterwards.

I was the guy who'd seen Barry doing stand-up many years ago.

After getting my copy of the book signed, I also bought a scarf and found myself accused of being a full kit wanker by Barry himself.

Anyway, I got home, unfolded the scarf, and have two scarves.

I'm not sure if the joke's on me or him.

I had my vasectomy years ago before I found out about podcasts, so mine was soundtracked by the guy who sells the Evening Echo in Cork, yelling, selling his wares on the street outside the clinic.

It worked as a distraction in that it was hard to tell which was more painful.

Anyway, thanks again.

I promised to make up for the scarf mix up by not buying any merch next time.

On the subject of Minnie Heffernan from Burr,

the postman who your taxi, our taxi driver knew, PK says is so-called after a character in the Reardons, an Irish television soap of the 60s, 70s.

Minnie Heffernan later married Batty Brennan to become Minnie Brennan, which is probably the name Barry would know the character by.

I remember the Reardons.

I don't remember any characters in it.

Oh, okay.

Well, Alan says, has Max recently spoken to someone who used the phrase hoying a lot?

He's just suddenly started using it.

I don't know what it means.

I presume it's just posh for getting it launched.

I reckon it's a Wilson thing because I've two friends from Sunderland called Jonathan

and they both use the word hoying a lot, often in an obscene

context.

But yeah, I think hoy the ball up.

I think I get it from the the Geordie and Alan Partridge when he's talking about throwing the monkey off the cliff.

And they hoyed it.

Hoyed it into the sea.

And then

it must be just a northeastern thing.

And he says it hit a rock on the way down.

That's a very funny scene.

Anyway.

That's probably a monkey.

Anyway, can we finally just send our love to Football 365's Johnny Nicholson, friendly?

Oh, God.

He's been on the panel before.

He's recovering in hospital after suffering a stroke.

In his words, he says, I'm fucked, but won't be forever.

He's still somehow.

He managed to write a column column this week, which is, you know, considering how difficult I find to write a column, do you know that's when I'm sitting in a cafe I'm mowing the face sort of absolutely classic, Johnny Nicholson, that he managed to do one of those right at the start of his recovery.

But we send you all our love, Johnny.

He is he's a dreamer, Johnny.

He's a good vibes man.

He believes in the dream of football.

I know, you know, this is probably hard for you to hear, but

he's one of the good guys in the game.

And we wish him all the best.

I hate him.

I hate him.

And that'll do for today.

Thank you, Johnny.

Thank you.

Thank you, Nikki.

Max didn't let me crowbar in.

It's a dead beaty talia this week initially.

Do you events against inter second against first?

So, you know, it'll probably be dreadful because Max Legri's football is not very inspiring to watch.

But I'm taking my 20 seconds of silly eye chat.

As you should have done.

And yes, I will download Max Legri's tactics app and get the most from it before that game.

Cheers, Baz.

Thank you, Max.

You're going back to Australia shortly, and I cannot wait wait to see the back of you because I'm completely sick of the sight of you.

Got to the stage where, you know,

before the show, you know, we're just sitting in silence, you know, on trains in total silence.

God, I can see how bands fall apart.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, Jesus.

I mean, we only did six gigs.

Over two weeks.

Yeah, imagine doing like a two years, five gigs a week.

Anyway, thanks everybody who came to the live shows.

We hope you enjoyed them.

Most people did.

Not everybody did.

But we had a nice time.

And if I never have to hear that anecdote about you in Thailand again, Barry,

I'll be a happy man.

Formal Weekly is produced by Silas Gray with Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Max Sanderson.

This is The Guardian.