Euro 2024 qualifying preview and Man Utd shake-up – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

The international break begins, but we keep delivering.

England have qualified, so we'll do some who should be on that plane chat.

Jazz singer Cole Palmer, is it the heir apparent for the tensure if Bellingham isn't fit and if Madison isn't fit?

Should Raheem Sterling just book another plane to somewhere else?

Big week for Wales, two wins, and they're there while Scotland are on the brackets good beach and Northern Ireland and the Republic are on the brackets bad one.

Then there's CEO news from Manchester United.

When did we start to care about the name of any club's CEO?

It's not Richard Arnold as United beam up Patrick Stewart.

There's some more news about Chelsea's finances under Abramovich, which leads to a nice hypothetical discussion about stripping clubs of titles and if that would make any difference all that plus your questions and that's today's guardian football weekly

on the panel today live in person in manchester barry glendenning hello hello max how are you i'm very well yeah we did a good live show and it's not for us to say if it was good i guess is it good we've done three now london Bristol, Manchester, and nothing has gone horrifically wrong yet.

That is true.

Also on stage and with us, John Bruin, welcome.

Hi, Max.

And Nada Manuha, your first live show?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, my first live show.

Do you think if we asked you to do another one, you would say yes?

Yeah, I think I would.

It was easy enough.

The crowd was very

keen to engage.

So yeah, it was good.

A friendly crowd.

Yeah, very friendly.

There was a few musical numbers.

If we'd known you played slap bass guitar, that would have been it.

Next time, will you bring your bass guitar?

We'll see.

we'll see how the world is at that moment in a new metal style is that what you're promising

not quite no but um if you want to see what type of style is trying to go for yeah someone youtube or google primus right linvoy primus

yeah what a bass player he was

les claypool that's that's the bassist in primus yeah and it's very very good okay not to not to be confused with timothy claypole right i don't know who that is It's the ghost from Renter Ghost.

Is that the ghost from the ghost?

Or the Jester?

Right.

Sneeze and a donkey appears.

that's what i remember anyway um england all barry wanted was you to play the seinfeldt theme

in between jokes

england malta um on friday night and then they go to north macedonia on monday night uh they've qualified already so i guess it doesn't matter cole palmer drafted into the squad what have you made nadam of sort of cole palmer like this move from city we all Obviously, you're going to be good if you're in cities 25, right?

You're not going to be a bad footballer, but I don't think we realised he was as good as we think he is now after watching him play.

Yeah, so I'll be completely like honest with you.

When he was at City, I'd heard he was a very, very good player and so on, but I never thought like try and get him to play instead of someone else because they had Mares, had Folden, had Grealish, had all these types of players.

And like, he was, oh, it's good.

Cole's going to come on for 15, 20 minutes at the end.

But he's, you know, he's a good player.

So then when you hear that Chelsea are trying to buy him, it's 42.5 million pounds for someone that doesn't ever really start for the club.

You're like, well, fair enough.

Good luck to him.

Wish him all the best.

It's an interesting transfer by Chelsea, especially with the amount of players he already had there.

But then he goes down and he's like shown his actual ability, his potential.

Should he be starting week in, week out?

But again, how many people from a city persuasion would have said, yeah, Cole Palmer needs to be starting for you?

The answer is probably not many.

But this is who he is.

I think when he won the 21 Euros in the summer, I think he was one of their best players.

There was lots of discussions about how good he was.

Jolian Lescott, a friend of mine, coached him.

He said he's like top tier.

I was like, maybe you know but obviously he sees him more so I said all right fair enough goes to Chelsea all of a sudden he's not the academy graduate anymore he's a 42 and a half million pound signing with a 15 year deal there so he's you know he's very much attached in a football club and he's confident the way he played in the city game in particular he has a belief in himself he was getting involved in jokes and you know celebrating like he's enjoying that moment and that's the freedom you can get sometimes by removing that sort of tag of being just an academy graduate and you can see he's playing to his best and somehow he's taking penalties over Sterling and stuff, which is still to this day blowing my mind.

Yeah, I think I wouldn't fancy Sterling on a penalty.

You say this, you say this.

Has he got a good record?

No, no, he's not actually.

But just when he was at City, I'd seen Sterling take a penalty.

I'd seen everyone take a penalty, but I'd never seen Cole Palmer even be near enough to even like ask, can I take a penalty?

But instead, he's saying to Raheem, yo, little boy, just wait there, I'm going to take this.

And that's what really, that's the thing that's confusing me, because that's his senior pro for many years, just taking a back seat as he lets him take the path.

Yeah, I suppose the thing at City Bruin is that he'd never he'd never play in the 10, right?

City would play him wide, and he's not that's a different skill.

Uh, yes, Rushton.

Sorry, do you know?

As soon as I said it, I know you don't like that.

Wilson doesn't mind.

Sorry, John.

My apologies.

I'm not a school anymore.

Give me your homework.

Yeah, I mean, I suppose in Manchester City's structure, Pep likes to put the skillful players who aren't coming to Bruyne to the flank, and then they do their work coming, cutting inside.

And like Nadim, I saw Cole Palmer play.

I think he started in the final game last season that Brantford City lost.

To see that player compared to the swaggering,

and he's all mank, isn't he?

He's a Withinshaw lad.

And after the get, you know, after the matches, you know, he's got that sort of mank draw.

He's got the hairstyle of a Indy Landfill

star, of which we are close personal friends these days.

Yeah, of course.

And he is,

and

as Neville said, he's seizing his moment.

And even in the post-match, when he was digging out Nicholas Jackson after the Spurs game, saying he needs to train harder and stuff like that.

He's obviously a character.

Now,

him being a character might be the reason why he's no longer Manchester City.

There is room for only one character there.

Remember, Jack Grealish used to be a character and is now

like a sort of pet for Pep Guardiola.

And maybe Cole, you know, the swaggering mank, maybe doesn't fit in with a Pep Guardiola, but in London he can be, you know, bright lights, right, bright lights, the fashionable King's Road swagger.

Ben Mee.

I see it now, yeah.

Are you more or less nervous about England winning the Euros now that Cole Palmer is the third choice ten?

I am quite nervous about them winning the Euros.

I mean, some very good players are going to be left out of that squad and there'll be the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I think after his performance against Tottenham, everyone's saying, Oh, how how can Raheem Sterling be left out of the squad?

And it looks like he will probably be left out of the squad unless there is a raft of injuries.

But if you want to put Sterling in, who do you leave out?

Are you you're going to leave out someone whose omission will prompt wailing and gnashing of teeth so yeah i'm i am quite nervous i

my main hope uh is that gareth southgate will will stymie them as he has done on two occasions previously other opinions are available i don't think he's a very good manager i used to think he was a good politician a good statesman type figure uh but i don't think he's a good football manager but other people disagree.

But I'm firmly in the camp that he is holding the England squad back.

Are you in that camp, Nathan?

I'm not actually now.

As I think through my lifetime, which

England managers of the past would be able to have won something with this England side, would you say?

Bobby Robson.

Do you think?

Venables?

Yeah, Terry.

Yeah.

Venables the most tactically astute, wasn't he?

Yeah, he studied

patterns of play around the world, did his homework, was a success in Spain,

could adapt.

I mean, Venables was a

once-in-a-lifetime English coach.

Yeah, but then with Venables and his traits, do you think the team would have been informed the way that it is with people getting the opportunity from probably a year, two years sooner than say other people would have?

Are you saying that they still had to drink down Scribes West to get a game?

You could say that.

You could say that.

I think

for whatever issues people have with, say, Southgate's coaching, I think the team that he's formed is one which likely wouldn't have been formed by other managers because there's even like Cole Palmer getting a chance, there was once a point where

if someone drops out of the main squad, you'd go into a standby, you wouldn't go to the 21s.

And I think there have been people across the years who've had the chance to play and gotten a little taste of it from, say, sooner than they would have done otherwise.

Because I think as we look back,

we kind of knew years ago, you knew what the England's starting 11 was.

And then you had a whole bunch of players who were really good who might never get the opportunity to play rinsing the squads.

Then a whole bunch of people who were younger who would never get the opportunity because someone's already on the bench that's covering for someone else who's going to start every game.

So, I um, I think there's something about him, uh, and I think the team is good, and I think he's given something to the team, even if it's just psychological to make them believe that they can do it.

And I think that's something which a lot of England teams, in my opinion, haven't had.

I'm in the pro Southgate camp.

I mean, I'm not as pro as I was, don't know why, but I'm in the pro Southgate.

And

he is more successful than anyone since the Ralph Ramsey.

That's a really bulgous argument.

Do you think it is?

Because the players,

but the players have been good before,

not this good, like

such an even spread throughout.

But you say it's not even spread like defensively, it's not amazing, is it?

Really?

Like, our centre-backs aren't like the best in the world.

Yeah, it's not Toy's Ferdinand's and Campbell's, all that stuff, is it?

Well, I'm only going on the evidence of what I've seen with my own eyes in the game

that they lost against Croatia, they threw it away.

And the game against Italy, they threw it away.

They are both games England should have a game.

The game against France, they threw it away.

Yeah.

The Italy one for me,

as we get further away from it.

I remember, obviously, they lost, but they lost on penalties.

You know, for as bad as they were, they still had a chance to win the whole thing.

So if they would have won the whole thing,

would we have said, oh, they were so bad in the final, though?

Or is it just a case that they won?

Like even the last final.

It shouldn't have gone to penalties.

That's my argument.

In a final against Italy, there's every chance.

How many finals are just complete blowouts?

But you go a goal up and then

they're playing really badly.

You've a chance to put the game to bed.

And what do you do?

Oh, let's just see.

How do we describe Argentina then in that World Cup final when they had the lead?

And before you know it, France are right there with them.

Was it like the last 15 minutes when Mbappe scored a couple to take it to extra time, was it?

Yeah.

That's what I mean.

So did Argentina blow that one?

Or did it just win the World Cup?

They won the World Cup.

I know, but they blew it then because they didn't need, shouldn't never have gone to penalties.

When they were that dominant, should never have gone to penalties then.

Yeah, but they won the penalty shoot.

So that's what you see what we've got with it.

So is it about England's penalty taking or is it about England's performance in the final?

I think it was about their performance in the final.

I think they had Italy at their mercy and they let them off the hook.

And that's all down to South Korea.

That, you know.

No, but Nada makes a good point because they blew it argentina because it was they were taking the penalty they just happened to win the shootout but you you're making it sound like winning is that that hoary old sword that a penalty shootout is a lottery it isn't

as gareth should know yes

from previous experience i think with southgate is what it has managed to do and i don't know if this will last forever and manages to have a shelf life which may be the problem that we we might run into at this point is he made the England players feel like they weren't England players, which is in a big tournament, in a big game, they're playing well and they see it all the way through as they did against Germany, saying the Euros.

And then in that final, when we three watched it together, they suddenly became England again.

Remember this?

We discussed this at the time, which is suddenly they start hoofing the ball along, they panic when they're in possession in a way they hadn't done before.

And that was what Southgate managed to convince that team to be the sum greater in the sum of their parts but in that that game against croatia the france game and then suddenly there's that point where we're english this could actually happen oh no and that's when english doubts crept in and that's the thing that southgate hasn't conquered if you take each tournament individually you could say yeah england did well yeah but he's had his three chances now yeah

there's a bit of a pass for

there is no one else to give a chance to though is there i mean

who does it go to?

For the job.

Yeah.

I want Sakai to keep it.

Do you not think as well, though, with these tournaments, we're looking at it, obviously, from a very

English lens as such.

But there have been other teams within that same three-tournament cycle who've really struggled.

But it's like we don't take them into account because all we see is their name once it's time for tournament time.

You know what I mean?

How well have Spain done?

You know, we could talk about

qualified for the

last two World Cups, isn't it?

So there's more to it.

There are lots of nations who are in a worse position than England, but it feels like England in a worse position because they've not maximised their potential.

Does it not feel, though, that the best team in Europe is France

by a long, long way?

And then the second best is probably England.

Yeah, I think.

And then Spain is not Spain as we recall it.

No.

Germany isn't.

Even at home, so well, that's a positive.

The company is horrendous.

I mean, they were bad

the World Cup in 2006 and then discovered a load of players that you've probably forgotten now.

I couldn't name one that was, I can't even, yeah, Lucas Podolsky.

But they came third in that tournament and they were surprised.

I mean, Germany being at home, I think that'll be good for them, but they're not a great team.

I mean,

you know, in Barry's, I think what Barry is saying is that England should be good enough to win this, but this manager's holding back.

Is that what you're thinking?

Or you just don't want to ever think that England might win anything?

No, I think they are good enough to win it.

But

I do think if they don't win it, it'll probably be down to Southgate's excessive caution.

I think the thing I think is it's much easier to be in that position because the chance of winning in the individual tournament.

So the only way you're wrong is if England wins it, which is very unlikely.

I don't think it is very unlikely.

Anyway, we'll find out.

Italy faced North Macedonia in the same group.

If they win, then there's a big game.

Ukraine, Italy winner winner-takes all on Monday.

Wales go to Armenia on Saturday.

Turkey on Tuesday.

We are all hoping for a jubilant hungover Ellis James voice note.

And Baz, you've been listening to one of Ellis' podcasts to get some thoughts.

I mean, presumably his football one.

Or you're going to tell us about the Napoleonic Wars or something.

No, he and Robbie Earnshaw and Ian Roberts.

were discussing the games.

Obviously, they're both huge games.

They have to beat Armenia.

And if they beat uh armenia that's a way uh then they've turkey at home and so they have to win both games i mean robert uh page's goose looked cooked there for a while but they pulled two brilliant wins out of the bag against latvia and croatia i don't think anyone saw them beating croatia and i think the lads were discussing

basically they were having a debate should brendan johnson start for wales or not you would imagine he would be a first choice for one of the first names down the team sheet, but he didn't start against Croatia.

So do you fix it?

Do you tinker with a winning team or not?

So it's between him, Brooks, Kiefer Moore, and

Harry Wilson?

Harry Wilson.

One of those will miss out, basically.

And Harry Wilson was brilliant against Croatia, scored two great goals.

I've watched a bit of Wales over this qualifying campaign.

I've got this guy, Jordan James, plays for Birmingham City, 19, replaced Jude Bellingham, pretty much.

And he looks the business, really does.

Him against Modrich, and he came out of the better.

Yeah, he and Ampidou are sort of.

Well, Ampadou is the player that we don't know how old he is because he's been around for so long.

He's about 23.

Scotland goes to Georgia today, Norway on Sunday.

It doesn't matter.

They've qualified.

matters a little bit because they've lost three games in a row.

Now, they were only friendlies, and they were friendlies against

big opposition in France, England, and Spain.

But you don't want to get in a losing habit, and they've done so.

Spain wasn't a friendly, was it?

I mean, it was.

Sorry, but Spain wasn't a friendly.

France and England were.

But, yeah.

They need that.

No, they don't need to win.

It will be good for them to get another win or just get back to winning ways.

I was going to say, they just warm up to go out in the group stage, can't they?

That's the

this could be their this could be

never been out of a group ever, have they?

Never, never.

That'd be great if they managed it, you know.

And in these Euros, you can come bottom of your group as far as I can tell and still get through.

Yeah, you can get no points and still get through.

Not getting out of the group stage this time will be

hard,

yeah.

Um,

you know, everything will be pretty much sorted over the next few days.

We will explain what happens as and when it happens.

Um, Israel played Switzerland last night, was played at the Pushkus Arena in Hungary.

Uh, It was a one-all draw, which means Switzerland and Romania stay top with 16 points.

Israel had a third with 12.

They play Romania on Saturday.

Switzerland play Romania on Tuesday.

Any of those three teams could go through.

Just on the subject of Israel, we've had lots of good and interesting questions about Israel and Gaza, including players posting on social media about it.

We've had you know, we've of course done loads of podcasts on human rights in lots of other places.

We're not ignoring these questions and we want to do that properly.

And I think we could be forgiven for saying we're not exactly sure how to do that properly, but we are working out the best way to do it.

And we will cover that in detail soon.

And that'll do for part one.

We'll be back in a second talking about CEOs at Manchester United.

God.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet It holds all your notes to-dos and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry.

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A proper football journalist, Matt.

Exactly.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Owen says, hi, Max.

Tonail here from Dublin.

I've purchased tickets for Dublin for my brother's 27th birthday, my brother Sludge.

Sludge and toenail.

So I don't think I can do it justice to be the great unveiler of such a gift in comparison to you and Barry.

Could you let Sludge know to meet me at Toner's bar at 5 p.m.

that Thursday evening?

We're not doing it on a Thursday.

Monday or Tuesday.

Is that a river?

I mean, all those names.

I've been urban dictionary.

Do I need to check what sludge and toenail is?

Can somebody check what a sludge and toenail is?

Anyway, have fun on Thursday, but we won't be there.

We'll be there on Monday.

Ashling says, Hi, folks.

Ashling here.

I have my tickets bought for Dublin on the 21st.

And while I'm looking forward to it, I hope it was an unintentional oversight.

It coincides with a landmark event in Irish football history.

The hotly anticipated friendly between the Republic of Ireland and New Zealand promises to be a pulsating encounter and will almost inevitably be Stephen Kenney's last match in charge of the boys in green.

Will there be a big screen to watch the drama unfold?

Barry, how will you concentrate knowing your

Boys in Green are playing the all-whites?

Yeah, I'm up against the mighty Chris Wood.

I presume he'll be playing, will he?

I think he's the only New Zealand player I know.

Is Ryan Carter playing Ryan Nelson still kicking about?

Is he playing?

We have quite a big audience in New Zealand.

Get upset about this.

Sorry about that.

Crowded house.

They're actually Keewees out there.

Split ends before that.

Yeah, split ends like the Concords.

I sat on a train with them for four hours stuck outside Stevenage.

Before they were famous, but obviously very recognisable faces and they had guitars, but I didn't chat to them.

Anyway, apologies for that terrible review of New Zealand football.

How are you feeling about the Republic, Barry?

Oh, just indifferent.

I mean,

they have a qualifier against the Netherlands.

before that in Amsterdam and they find themselves in the weird position that it is of more benefit to the Republic of Ireland to lose that game than to get a result due to

a sort of kink in the Nations League back door qualifying

situation.

So

I was glad when Stephen Kenney got the Iron job.

I think it hasn't gone well for him.

His contract's up once European qualifying ends.

And it almost certainly won't be renewed.

He had a goal.

It went didn't go well for me.

Only six competitive wins.

And they were against Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Scotland, Armenia, and Gibraltar by two.

It's not Europe's elite by any stretch of the imagination.

So yeah, if they need to lose against the Netherlands.

Which is within their power.

I think even yeah, I think Stephen Kenny can manage that.

Lose away to the Netherlands.

And then they have a very, very slim hope of

getting into the Nations League qualifiers.

And even in the unlikely event, that happens.

So they need to lose to have a chance to get through.

And the manager and the players know this.

Yeah.

But they're sending a team over to the Netherlands.

You've got to send a team, haven't you?

Or might not be obvious.

How does that work?

How does that 3-0 then?

Yeah.

How does that work?

What is actually a benefit to losing?

What's the point in anyway?

It shouldn't work.

It shouldn't be the case, but

it has been flagged up to UEFA, and apparently, they're sort of

big shoulder shrug.

Get Jonathan Wilson's shoulder shrug emoji out.

They don't seem to care.

But yeah,

they need as many teams above them in the

Nations League rankings to qualify through the usual channels

to improve their chances of getting into the qualifiers.

And the Netherlands are one of those teams.

And have they just called up like a regular island squad, or is it just a matter of time?

that's i mean that's not a bad idea if you want to lose a football match

burry's got the call yeah but i'm saying what's if you need to lose a game and the other ones are friendly why would you call up some of the regulars that didn't give you the opportunity to qualify outright i suppose i mean what choice have they got i guess you know that's not a sort of i'm i'm hugely confident that a full-strength iron

can lose

they don't that's absolutely i mean even if they do lose there's still it's a pretty slim yeah art says um thoughts on patrick patrick stewart into replace richard arnold it's a strange move but as he captained the federation starship us enterprise he probably has more experience than the last two shape last shame spock is already gone would have loved him to grow our intergalactic fan base yeah we've signed a new hyperspace partner um so yeah richard arnold is leaving man united as chief executive uh this is all around jim ratcliffe uh getting control of the footballing operations arnold's been there since 2007 um he was commercial director and then group managing director and then when ed woodward left he got this job.

He said, It's been an incredible privilege to serve this great football club for the past 16 years through highs and lows.

I would say lows

through lows.

The constant has been the dedication of our employees and fans.

I'd like to thank them all for their loyalty and commitment, which everyone associated with the club the very best for the future.

Patrick Stewart said, Nanu, Nanu, to infinity and beyond.

I'm not a Star Trek fan.

Good soul.

Yeah, isn't that more commindy?

And

I can't remember what's the other one?

Buzz Lights.

Buzz Lights.

Anyway, he said, together with my leadership team colleagues, my job will be to ensure the club's foundations remain stable while we embrace changes that can make us stronger over the long term on and off the pitch and to support the search for a new permanent CEO.

Does any of this matter?

That's really made me feel empowered as a true Red.

The new dawn approaches, doesn't it?

Does it not?

Does it matter?

Like, why do we care about who the CO?

I mean, CEOC matters having a good CEO, but why are we talking about this?

Well, I think, funny enough, Manchester United have shown over the last decade the importance of a good CEO or a bad CEO.

Now,

Ed Woodward has his defenders in terms of commercial performance, and I'm sure Richard Arnold does too, but

United over the last 10 years has been little short of disastrous.

And Richard Arnold's rather short reign, which is curtailed, you'd have to say, does involve some rather wrong turns from the club, including the Mason-Greenwood affair, in which Richard Arnold played a leading role.

And

Big Sir Jim Ratcliffe, or is it Sir Big Jim?

We don't know.

Is it Sir Big Jim?

Sir Big Jim.

Sir Big Jim.

Sir Big Jim.

Well, it was Major Sir Tom, wasn't it?

So would it be.

Well, that wasn't Captain Tom.

Or Captain Sir Big Tom.

I don't know.

I know that his daughter isn't allowed to spa in her garden.

It's a great shame.

Let's not compare Big Sir Jim with Captain Tom.

No, that's not.

Just yet.

Okay, fine.

But

Major Tom was a devil's boy.

It was, yeah, it was, yeah.

Crowd control.

Can you hear me, Big Sir Jim?

Yeah.

So anyway, Big Sir Jim.

Yeah.

So Big Jim has clearly, and I don't know how he's come to this impression, not been impressed with the performance of Richard Arnold and the on-field performance.

I suppose the next question,

and we are told actually that Big Sir Jim is a fan of Eric Ten Hag,

but how long does that last?

Because,

as we all know, when a club changes ownership,

one of the first people to go out the door normally is the manager.

We've seen that at Birmingham City rather disastrously so far with Wayne Rooney and loads of examples of that.

But yeah, Arnold stepping aside, this was we go back to the discussion Barney had with an operator from the club a few weeks back.

I think a few people are trying to protect their position at that club, protect their jobs.

Richard Arnold hasn't been able to do that.

He's moving on.

I'm sure he will do okay out of it.

I don't think we need to worry about him financially.

And he'll probably pick up a perfectly good job without the pressure of being CEO of Manchester United, of which you would suggest there can't be many more high-pressure jobs than that.

They all sort of say it filters, you know, this all filters down to the dressing room, like in your experience.

No.

Yeah.

Absolutely not.

No.

This feels like more of a PR type thing to just give the illusion of well, I say illusion, but give the idea of competency.

You're changing everything.

The club isn't what it was because it was so bad.

We have to make it seem like everything's changing.

But realistically, if you go to a training ground as a player, you see the staff, you see manager, staff, players, you train, you go play in a game, that's it.

As long as like your kits out and everything else is there, what difference does it make in terms of who the CEO is?

Like, they're not driving your decisions unless it's arguably something to do with a contract or players coming in.

So I don't think that stuff really

nobody cares.

So So when you were at City, and so the chairman would be, say, David Bernstein in those days.

How often did you see David Bernstein?

Did not see David Bernstein.

No.

Did not see David Bernstein.

Have you ever chatted to David Bernstein?

I've not chatted to Derner.

If Bernstein walked into this room now, I know, I know, I know who he was, yeah, because I'm one of the older people.

Yeah, I'm one of the older school types, but nah, like

it's irrelevant.

And do you know the perspective which I think about sometimes?

So you see how commercially United have been doing great or whatever.

I wonder if those people, they're all in the boardroom together patting each other on the back saying how good a job they're doing that undoubtedly so and they look at the field and says these guys are letting us down the ones on the field you know do you think they're self-aware to believe that they've got anything to do with anything out there or is it a case of like as i say they think oh you know i need to have done more to have helped the team but so the question is how much do like like how much do they have an effect realistically yeah Realistically, and this is like a very, it's a hot opinion for some because, you know, when I watch, if I watch United on TV, if they win, it's great.

Ten Hag's done great.

If they lose, like, Neville talks about like the Glazers, you know what I mean?

That type of thing.

And I, I, I hate that because you can the two things can be going on at the same time, but then still be very much separate, but they always seem to be linked.

And I think they could have maybe put certain people into better, better leadership positions, but realistically, have the team underperformed.

If the answer is yes, then that's down to the people who are in charge of helping them be better.

But City became better when better people were put into leadership positions through that club, right?

But if City, say in the last few years, this year has been more significant because of, say they've had really good players and so on, but Guardiola has been the defining factor for those players.

Because if you would have had

he had to have the right people around him, or are those people only good because they've got Pep with them?

Possibly.

And I think for the way that Pep is at City, they allow him the freedom to be able to do his job openly.

I think at Bayern, that's a different issue because all the legends weighing in all the time.

But that structure, like the players, they speak to the manager.

The manager, if the manager feels comfortable, he'll stay for longer.

Yeah, but he's the one that creates the vision.

At United, it feels like there isn't enough support from those people, like the execs.

Like, a manager of Manchester United becomes an isolated figure, which is what Ten Hag feels like now, doesn't he?

It's like it's him in the eye of the storm, there's no one around him.

That's true, and some people prefer that, though.

Well, they do, yes, but I mean, when we, I mean, Sir Bobby Charlton, we had his funeral this week, that was the factor that kept Alex Ferguson in the job is that he had Sir Subobi behind him.

And that's what you need strong characters.

But aren't you saying that the people in the room, you know, slapping each other on the back saying, we've got the best noodle partners and these guys are letting them down?

You're saying they do have a point because they're making lots of money.

Essentially, because in an ideal world, say with the Ratcliffe's and so on, they'll want success on the field, but they'll also want it commercially.

You know, they want both sides of it, but then they're probably going to try and put things in play that they believe will help the football inside.

But again, like when you watch that team play for their potential, they're not playing to their best and how much of that is down to the CEO or certain people in and around it in my opinion how much power John do you think Ratcliffe is going to have because he's very much going to be a minority shareholder and I can't see the glazers ceding too much decision-making power to him yes that is I mean this is I suppose that is you know it's something that might happen is when does when does Big Sir Jim and the Glazers when does the first row happen but the suggestion is that 25%

is the first tranche of him eventually taking over.

And that's the way it's supposed to be.

But because as things stand, I believe there's a 12-person board of execs at United, six of whom are Glazers, siblings.

And if, in the event of a

tie,

Joel and Avram have the final vote.

Joel has a casting vote.

Yeah.

So is that going going to change

well i think those are the questions that's a very good question barry i don't know the answer to that one but it's something that uh if this deal is being wrapped up and richard arnold's departure suggests it is those are the details that we're gonna have to dig out as journalists aren't they

isn't it a sad state of fears that we're talking

about yeah i've sort of yeah i'm not zoned out but you know you're not going to spend one and a half billion to have no say though are you that's the thing i would expect something because it's going to take me quite a while to rustle that up, if I'm honest.

Chelsea faced fresh questions over how former owner Roman Abramovich funded the club's success after leaked files revealed a string of secret payments that may have breached strict football rules, including FFP.

Experts said the transactions uncovered to a joint investigation by the Guardian and international partners could lead to the Premier League imposing punishments on Chelsea, such as a deduction of points.

The files revealed a series of payments worth tens of millions of pounds over a decade routed through offshore vehicles belonging to Abramovich.

The transactions in question appear to have been for Chelsea's benefit, raising questions about whether they were declared in accounts submitted to football's governing bodies.

Um, do read Rob Davies' piece about this in The Guardian.

I think the interesting conversation, I just don't know what to believe anymore.

I mean, this is such a shock to me.

Yeah,

I've never ever suspected anything like this was happening.

Did you?

Oh, God, God,

it feels like the oh,

I've just opened my eyes to oh, Well, I think

I don't know what a realistic insensible sanction is, right?

But obviously, you've got this happening, we've got the city charges happening at the moment.

But an interesting conversation, I think, is, obviously, Man United fans say, get rid of City's titles, right?

Just get rid of City.

And, you know, Tottenham fans or whoever say strip Chelsea of all their titles.

But don't you think actually being stripped of your title would be better than having a points deduction?

Because your fans aren't going to care.

Like, if you told, if you said to a Man City fan, oh, by the way, that Aguero aguero gold now doesn't actually win you the title they're not going to go oh let me just let me just take back all that emotional joy that i had neither move to live because it was all his fault

wow some of it was not not all of it yeah i think that's um that's a that's a good question that's a good question i think the points deduction because say for the city chargers again like i'm somehow linked with that period as such

and if say something was to happen to them and they had points taken off them for this season like is do i have to go and apologise for something like I had no idea about?

They want to take the points away from when you finish 10th.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly, and it's justified and people are like, yeah, God, this is what they deserve.

And it's, I don't know,

it's a strange one.

I'm not very good at sort of figuring out what the right sanction is for any particular incident.

There isn't really a sanction that's going to affect, A, the fact that they've won the trophy and enjoyed themselves.

And taking points off them now, the argument is it's a different regime.

It has nothing to do with us.

And in the middle of it, the fans have absolutely no say over any of this right but there's but the converse argument is you can't just say oh well we can't put any sanction on a team who is found guilty because then all the clubs will just carry on doing it if any clubs are doing it

i just threw my phone on the floor and just go

who really cares about this one you know i haven't got a i haven't i'm yet to put a uh a cover on the phone so yeah yeah lucky yeah you have to have some sort of punishment right otherwise what happens

Or they carry on willy-nilly breaking the rules, which some of them might be doing anyway.

Yeah.

I mean, well, it's like if you look at the Tour de France role of

honor, there's a big gap between 1995, I think, and 2002, where nobody won the Tour de France.

Quite conspicuous seven consecutive years where the Tour de France happened.

But you know he won it.

There was, you know, millions of people lying in the street, drinking wine and beer and eating cheese and baguettes, cheering on these cyclists.

You know, I remember them vividly.

And

but if

historically, those tours didn't happen, nobody won them.

I mean, Juventus had titles stripped, didn't they?

And I think their fans are just quite happy to say we've that was our

35th title rather than, you know, did they did they give the title to someone else?

I think Inter got one of them, but I think one season no one got one, one, which because everybody was involved.

Yeah.

I wonder what that's like.

If you finish second to, say, City of Chelsea or whatever, and then they have the title stripped, are you asking to be given that title?

I mean, I'd love it.

I mean, it's a bit like, you know, when they go and give a bronze medal to some Jamaican who's like 58, who's going as a moment's gone now.

Centre them in the podium.

It's not exactly the same as having your moment on the podium in a packed stadium, is it?

But I would like, you know, I think if you were the team, I don't know who came, so Man United came second in 2011 or 2012.

I can't remember the Aguero year, or I mean, someone who finished second behind Chelsea.

Do that squad get together for an open top bus parade?

And then

you have to get the fans to dress what they were wearing in the sort of early 2000s or whatever.

So this is, you know, this is who you are.

You've got to go.

If you had split from your partner, you've got to get back with them.

We all go back to that moment in history.

But I think as a fan, you'd actually prefer to have that strip than have a points deduction, right?

I don't know.

How big a points deduction are we talking?

Is it

30 points deducted?

I think you've got to relegate them, haven't you?

The points deduction has to hurt.

Say, for example, a club based in the Greater Manchester area facing

Rochdale.

Could be Roxdale.

Say they had, say, 100-plus charges, and some of them stuck.

What do you think the other clubs in their division, whatever division that might be,

would those other clubs in the division want them to be in the same division of them after if these charges should be, say, found to be true?

Hypothetically, I think almost better than relegating.

Hypothetically, better than relegating city were to give them a

70-point deduction and see if they survive.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

What a season that would be.

He's so excited because they probably would, right?

But don't city fans always talk about the great days when, again, York away, Lincoln away.

Back to those days.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a Chelsea story, right?

So, like, hypothetically.

Hypothetically,

it was just a name we threw in.

Chelsea give a 60-point, you know, 50-point, you know.

I see, Maddie, they might not make that, mightn't they?

Anyway, it's an interesting conversation.

As yet, no charges have no one's been found guilty yet.

David says, where do Cray Valley paper mills go from here?

Yeah, they lost 6-1 at home to Charlton Athletic in the FA Cup replay.

I think they equalised at some point.

Do they take the lead?

They equalised.

But they lost 6-1.

Not actually a paper mill anymore.

We chatted to their chairman, didn't we, Bash?

He was a nice man.

That'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll do any other business.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Dylan says, how did Naden feel seeing someone older than himself score last week in the Premier League?

Tiago Silva scoring ahead.

Quite a lot older as well, isn't he?

Yeah, considerably older.

Listen, I'm very much at ease with it.

I jumped out when I was ready.

He can keep going for as long as he wants.

As long as he wants.

It's like it's the reverse of, you know, fans going, I realized, you know, it's when a player younger than you scores.

But for a footballer, it's a player older than you.

Yeah.

Sorry, the bigger ones, like James Milno, he's the same age as me, but he's still playing.

And thinking,

yeah, probably could have tried a bit more.

But instead, yeah, I'm here with you guys, so this is obviously the win.

Jack says, in light of Petercek signing for the Belfast Giants, does Nadim think he could scuff one into an ice hockey net?

Yeah, I feel like every international break Petacek signs as a goalkeeper for a nice game.

He searches clubs a lot.

He does, yeah.

He's a journeyman, isn't he?

He has joined Belfast Giants on loan from Oxford City Stars as temporary emergency cover.

He joined the Guildford Phoenix in end of 2018-19 season, and then he signed for Oxford City from Chelmsford Chieftains, yeah.

So he really can't, he just can't stay put, can he?

He's like the Mo Johnston.

He's the Wayne Biggins

of ice hockey.

Luke says, having been managed by him, can Nadum confirm if Harry Redknapp is still with Sandra or if Neil Warnock has swooped in, as Max Russian seemed to think?

I get my Sharon and Sandra's mixed up, don't I?

It's definitely Sharon for Neil.

Sharon for Neil, Sandra for Harry.

You don't have to answer that one.

Liam says, Did Andros get the tip of eating chicken feet for marginal gains from Barry, given his lengthy and illustrious career?

Is this how Barry makes sure his body recovers after every pod?

Or is it his go-to hangover cures?

Yeah, Andros revealed he's hoping to lengthen his career by eating chicken feet.

Your thoughts, Barry?

Well, we did a live show with

Andros' dad, Troy, on Monday, and I didn't see the chicken feet story until Tuesday, so that was an opportunity missed to quiz Troy about his son's

chicken feet fetish, I suppose you could call it.

I've never eaten chicken feet.

I imagine they're really unpleasant.

I do see them on sale in Brixton Market,

where you can get all sorts of weird and wonderful things.

But yeah, didn't realize they were a delicacy.

But

or

they're like a snack food.

I went to Beijing a few years ago.

And you know, if you go into like a W.H.

Smith's or, you know,

they're the thing next to the counter.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

They're like a sort of, you know, a big bag of quavers.

Right.

Instead, they'll have chicken feet.

I've had chicken feet before.

Yeah.

It's a bit weird.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a bit weird.

It was interesting what he was saying.

It tastes like chicken.

He was on the Monday Nightclub and he was sort of saying, look, you know, he basically caught himself having to take all sorts of supplements and pills and, you know, this for this and collagen and turmeric and whatever.

And he just thought, hang on, I just, I want to see if I can get this from natural foods.

That's quite a sensible idea, I guess.

But it's quite interesting that, I mean, I don't know if you were being given, hey, have these magic beans, Nathan, it'll,

you know, it'll be a lot more.

Within sport.

Yeah, they give you some magic beans, yeah.

Yeah, I think for him to be sick and tired of having tablets to then decide to go and hunt for chicken feet, feet, that's like a very big step.

I'd imagine as he travels around the country and so on.

I'd worry if he was concerned that maybe he can't perform well because he's not had his chicken feet in his pre-match meal and so on.

But again, I think for me, highlights he's got some issues.

And if it can help him feel better, then great.

But again, I don't.

There's not a long history of people having chicken feet and having their careers extended.

Does James Milner have chicken feet?

Do you know what?

No, I don't think he does.

I don't think he does.

does i think good luck to andros i hope it works out for him yeah but if his knee's back he said he was feeling great the next day he's also doing something called mouth taping yeah he's playing earlier harlan does mouth taping how much of it's in your mind do you remember years ago probably 15 years ago when they had the little power bracelet things with the hologram that you do you remember this a power band bracelet it was like a rubber bracelet right and it had uh this is for football or is it just for people this is for life and it had a hologram within it that used to make you 2% stronger and all this nonsense.

Okay.

Everyone was using it.

Right.

Except for me.

But everyone was using it.

I have no room to use.

I guarantee you.

I guarantee listeners.

People would have bought these because they believed it was going to be a thing.

There was big marketing around it.

You had cricketers.

You had footballers.

Yeah.

Everyone doing it.

One of the most stupid things I've ever heard in all my life.

But people said they felt better about it.

I remember the nose thing.

It was not a nose.

The fixed vapor rub on the chest.

Yeah, nonsense.

But mouth taping is, I tried to look it up.

It sounds of quite unpleasant.

But it's when you go to sleep.

I don't think you tape your mouth sort of wide open, like the AquaFresh advert.

I'm not really sure.

But apparently Erling Harlan does it.

It's good for your breathing or some such.

Anyway,

Simon says, after listening to Barry Professor's love for Olivier Giroux, I was sat at Egg Spectation in Dubai Marina on Tuesday.

Egg Spectation.

Was that a sort of fancy egg shop?

How much of that?

That's like spudgy-like.

For eggs.

It could be.

On Tuesday, Tuesday, my wife was staring at someone.

I turned around to see this handsome bearded chap with his wife.

To my shock, it was Olivier Giroux.

I almost fell in love with him.

He's a spectacularly good-looking person.

That is true.

Sean says, How the live show is going well.

Cannot make the Irish shows this year, unfortunately, but last year I won a big chunk of lamb in Mark Langdon's raffle.

I didn't show much excitement as the time I was there by myself.

I did want to highlight the fact that I was there on my own.

On my way home, I put the big chunk of lamb inside my jacket and got onto the Lewis Dublin tram line, then drove back to my house in the south south of Ireland.

So about four hours had passed by the time I received the lamb to when it was put into the freezer.

I excitedly explained to my girlfriend I won this raffle and that we should have said lamb for dinner this Sunday.

I thought this was a soccer podcast.

Why are they giving out meat?

God men are so weird when it comes to soccer, she says.

Fair.

So her mother ended up cooking this lamb the following Sunday with all her family.

I did not attend the dinner.

Not sure how long that lamb had been out of the chilled area from when ye got it, but every one of her family ended up sick.

So, a word of advice: maybe leave the meat in a chilled area before each raffle.

Um, love the show, keep up the good work, look after Barry when he's back in Ireland.

Um, producer Joel says we do leave the meat in a chilled area, and we only do meet raffles when Mark Langman's there because otherwise it would be silly.

And uh, he's not coming to Ireland, so uh, hopefully, be safe.

We do hope your family have recovered.

Steve says, not a question, just a comment.

Listening to Football Weekly during a vasectomy is old news.

Listening to Football Weekly during a colonoscopy prep, the new way.

Well, good luck to you, Steve.

Hope you're all right.

Which part of the colonoscopy?

That's just you.

That's the laxative one, isn't it?

You sort of sat in the throne room, isn't it?

Yeah, that is.

You take the, you drink the...

I've had one and you take it.

Yeah, you take the sort of powdery drink and you think, actually, I think I'm feeling all right.

And then suddenly it goes all Munich.

It goes all Munich very, very quickly.

Alexis says, hi, Max and team.

Just thought thought I'd try and regress the balance of the Football Weekly population after all.

Vasectomy chat to let you know that I'm listening to you while waiting for my wife to have a midwife appointment.

It's the second time in the process I've squeezed in a bit of Football Weekly, having had to wait outside for one of the scans.

Everything's all good.

Hoping for many more Football Weekly pregnancy mashups.

Not sure I'll be allowed to make it,

it'll be allowed to make it into the birth playlist.

Maybe I'll try and play it on a speaker on my wife's stomach.

Now they've developed ears.

Get them started early on the excellent football chat.

She has no interest in football, but her dad once played against Pele so I'm hoping it's in the jeans I've listened to every episode as I was looking for a World Cup podcast back in 2006 and there the pod appeared who knows how many hours of barry I've had in my head glad the pod is going great guns looking forward to another 17 years of listening goot keepers posted Alexis maybe you could call your little one Barry

and that'll do for today thank you so much Barry thank you mats nice to do a pod in person thanks John thank you very much thank you Nadam pleasure sir thanks all of you for doing the live show last night as well we will see you in Dublin on Monday and Tuesday night, Brighton, on Wednesday.

You can still get tickets for the live stream wherever you are on earth.

Theguardian.com/slash fw tour 23 Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray with Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.