Martinelli to Arsenal’s rescue and Liverpool move five points clear – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

What a week for Gabrielle Martinelli.

Two exquisite touches in injury time and a point for Arsenal when it looked like they'd never score against Jan Luigi Donarumma and the assorted 25 centre-backs that Pep ended up putting in front of him.

Earlier, Erling Haaland had done some leaving defenders in his wake, but perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of it all are Liverpool.

They are five from five.

Ryan Gravenberch at the heart of things with a brilliant finish and a glorious assist.

Lots of fun in the rain at Old Trafford, red cards, goals, and a real feel of rolling subs in a vets game with changes happening all the time.

But a big win for Ruben Amarin.

Is it over for Graham Potter?

It feels that way, although it's felt that way since he got the West Hand job.

They lose to Palace.

Wolves have nought points after a great win for Leeds at Molyneux.

Thomas Frank Hails Spurs' best performance of the season in getting a point at Brighton.

And what's this?

Another goal of the season contender from Ethan Pinnock.

Baz has his say.

Also today, Villa aren't good.

Dan Bardell is sad.

There's some Russian history and some US motorway pedantry.

Your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Hello, John Bruin.

Hello, Max.

Hi, Dan Bardell.

A sad hello from me, Max.

Yeah, although, you know, a sad Brummy, it sounds good.

Sadness sounds good in Brummy, Dan, I would say.

Yeah, just normal, isn't it?

But people probably won't notice much difference to normal behaviour.

Well, you'll be pleased to know it's not, it's not high up the running order at your draw with Sunday, but we'll get to it.

We'll begin at the Emirates.

Ask the One Man City one.

We're recording on Sunday night.

So that Martinelli goal, John, it was about an hour ago.

And what?

I mean, it's just, I love a goal that takes a long time to go in.

I mean, there was Zinchenko's own goal yesterday, which was similar in how long it took, perhaps not as high quality, but this finish was absolutely beautiful.

Yes, and it provided a denouement to a game that looked to be escaping from Arsenal for reasons of what we'd accused Mikel Arteta of being chicken-hearted in his tactics, of being one-dimensional, of deciding that rugby was the best form of attack and defence.

And yet, this is the...

He's been talking this week about uh using rugby tactics.

You know, like in the Rugby World Cup, you'll see the bomb squad come on for South Africa, you'll see like five grippers, all 22 stone, that will be sent on to just smash through the New Zealand pack or whatever.

Well, Mil Carl Arteta is doing this in football, and what that involves is leaving Eberetti Eze on the bench until half-time.

Now,

Pep Guardiola, by contrast,

is, I think, is becoming the more traditional football man.

And this is why Donna Rummer's in the team.

Big players win big matches.

And Erling Haaland is one of those big players, who was also his team's best defender in the game.

Whereas Arteta is trying to mix it up and be too clever by half.

In the end, both approaches sort of got what they want out of that game, I think.

Pep seemed pretty happy.

They were talking about fatigue.

Arsenal have quality within the squad.

Of course, Martinelli's goal shows that.

Why don't we see enough of it?

Why were they playing Tranmere Rovers football for 89 minutes?

And then you have this moment of almost Michael Thomas-esque inspiration.

We want to see more from Arsenal.

That's what I want.

It's very harsh on John Aldridge, Pat Nevin, and Chris Malkin there.

But

I mean, the thing about that goal is, I know what you mean, John.

You know, that phrase, this goal, came from nowhere.

It was like, Barry, Barry, there was just no way.

Like, the way City were defending, and they did have so many enormous people on the pitch.

I mean, John mentioned rugby players coming on.

It was like Pep did that too.

And Donnarumma just punched it.

It was like he got more power every time a corner came in.

He'd punch it and grow another foot.

There was no way Arsenal were going to score in this game.

Well,

Manchester City, I'm not familiar with today.

It was...

Manchester City, who were happy to let their opponents have the ball, who scored on one counter-attack, and from then on more or less

relied on Jeremy Doku and Erling Harland to try and pick another one off on the break and then

they parked the bus basically and that I haven't seen City do that before they might have done it before but I don't remember it and it was working for them Arsenal kind of ran out of ideas after about Before the first half had ended even, they'd kind of run out of ideas.

And then they perked up a a bit for the last 10 minutes of the first half.

I thought, oh, this is going to be dangerous for Arteta because what they were trying to do clearly wasn't working.

But now they've played well for the final seven or eight minutes of the first half.

So maybe he'll decide everything's okay after all, and he won't make any changes.

But he did make changes, and he deserves credit for making those changes.

But like John, I'm baffled by the fact that Ize didn't start the game.

His midfield, you know, what was it, Zuba Mendi, Rice, and Marino.

Not much creativity in there, is there really?

And then as the clock went past 90 minutes, I'm sort of preparing my

moan, I suppose.

Although it doesn't really affect me, but just how Arsenal had failed their second test, big test of the season out of two tests.

But they didn't fail it in the end because of that Martinelli moment of magic.

I give him a C plus

nothing more really b minus c plus maybe and usually like you say we're recording more or less straight after the game usually it'd have a night to sleep on it and decide you know how good a result that is for arsenal obviously it's a good point because it looked like they were going to come away empty-handed but I think if I was an Arsenal fan and after I've had a while to ruminate on that, I'd be a bit disappointed with the approach.

Have you done enough ruminating?

Yeah, I think it's a pretty big point for Arsenal just in terms of actually around a year ago, they played City and I think it was 2-2.

John Stone scored in stoppage time and that felt like a really pivotal moment in Arsenal season, even though it was pretty early in the season.

And I actually think that game really, really deflated them and was actually a big moment in their title challenge that didn't last very long.

And I think, you know, the stakes...

always seem so high in Arsenal games, like they've got no room for error at all because previously they've been up against Manchester City and last season that they're up against Liverpool and they're both fantastic teams who win a lot of games.

So even if Arsenal draw a game, it feels like a disaster to Arsenal.

And if they lose, then I don't know what the next rung is down from a disaster or up from a disaster, but it feels like it's that if they lose.

So to come back and be the ones that kind of get that point rather than be the ones that chuck it away like they did this time last year.

I actually think that's a pretty big moment for Arsenal in their season.

And I think Baz said about the, or John said about, you know, they've lost to Liverpool a few weeks ago in their big game.

This was the next biggest game.

I think to have lost both of them already would have really changed the narrative around their season.

So I think what the point does, it salvages a bit of that for me.

So I think it's a really good point for Arsenal.

And I thought it was tough to play against Manchester City in the way they operated today.

I thought it really was.

So you're going about a B plus?

Yeah, results-wise, I'd say a B plus.

Maybe performance-wise, it'll be less than that.

But in terms of getting the result the way they did, I think

definitely a B-plus at least do you not think though that if manchester city are forced to engage those tactics which is you know eight grippers across the field and hold on that they're there for the taking this is a different manchester city and if you decide and you use the attacking players that you have including Eberrechi Eze, who tormented them in last season's FA Cup final, that they were there for the taking.

And you could hear Arsenal fans exasperation.

Now, there there are few stadiums that do exasperation quite like Arsenal.

It's a sort of keening,

high-pitched sort of moan that goes on there.

It's not the Goodison Groan.

It's a slightly more different one.

Villa

has one of its own.

Dan will be at...

And St.

James.

Everyone has their sort of moaning.

And Arsenal has its own sort of rather shrill.

And that was happening.

And nothing was really happening.

And here's the thing.

I'd have mentioned Trami Trami Rose before.

There is a reason that once Dave Challiner retired and Rory DeLap retired, the long throw was abandoned as this great new tactic because it doesn't work that often.

And launching long throws is a bit of a waste of time.

And also, they take so bloody long over the.

How dare you?

From the get-it-launched king.

I can't believe it.

No, but

that's not get it launched.

That's get it thrown.

That's different.

That's different.

Isn't the point, though, if you're trying, the difficulty is the final ball, right?

Eze's ball is great.

And if a team is defending deep, it sounds like we're talking about England breaking down a low block, but the difficulty is trying to play that ball.

So if you've got the ball in your arsenal and you think, am I the guy that plays the final ball?

Or am I the guy that crosses it?

And you think, well, maybe I'll give it to Saka to see if he can do it.

And so it is always that decision about keeping possession or...

playing the final ball and not working.

And if you're playing against a 4-5-1 that are really deep, that final ball is, there's just very, there's not much space to put it.

But a confident team like a Guardiola Barcelona or something like that trusts itself.

Peps Barcelona, of course, is one of the greatest teams of all time, if not the greatest, but they never panicked at that point.

You know, the NES the goal against Chelsea in 2009, you just keep going, you keep going, you let it, and then eventually you grind the opposition down.

Arsenal have the technical players to do something, if not of that level, akin to that, that, and yet we're watching the South African rugby team.

I don't understand it because I think Arteta has the

Arsenal

within his squad

to actually play better football than that and be more creative.

I think we've just said, or we've never seen Manchester City play like that.

We've never seen that iteration of Manchester City.

So I imagine Arsenal prepared for a lot of things in training this week.

I can't imagine that they'd have prepared for

what was put in front of them today at the Emirates.

So maybe the element of not quite being sure what to do with Manchester City operating in that way.

Look, I think Arteta himself, if he had his time again, I think he'd pick a different team.

Maybe he

might make some different subs.

I was surprised Madowake went off at half-time rather than Trossard.

I think Arsenal squad's so big now.

We're talking about them having a player for each position.

I think he's almost trying to keep everyone involved and throw people starts here and there.

As the season goes on, maybe that's for the greater good.

But right now, in that game, I think like Trossard starting, I don't think was the right call.

Obviously, look, he's made a good sub because Martin Addy's come on and rescued the game for them.

But I think there was a lot kind of going on in that game that Arsenal wouldn't have been ready for.

And maybe that affects the manager as well with some of the choices he made.

Barry, Erling Harland, we know is fast, right?

And it's a bit like, you know, we know a racehorse is fast.

But when you see it in motion, like the way he just left the defenders

for dead, it was,

it's just something so great about it, isn't it?

He just says, right, I'm off.

And everyone just goes, all right, he's gone.

Yeah, and the move started with him as well, because he played this nice little ball around the corner to Dijani Reiners.

Then off he went, gobbling up the ground, left Gabrielle.

Was it Gabrielle or Salyuba?

I can't remember.

Both of them.

Absolutely

opened up a 10-yard gap on them in no time at all.

His finish was pretty straightforward by his standards, but still a good finish.

And then he almost did it again, didn't he?

When Doku sent him on his way.

But on this occasion, his shot let him down.

He fired straight at Raya.

Doku as well, I thought, was probably the best player on the pitch.

Because he had a very important role for City, because they had so many people

deep lying and not really venturing forward.

Doku

just making ground

like a rugby player, I suppose.

And

holding on to the ball and drawing fouls and just earning City a lot of respite at important times.

He reminds me of a not a rugby player, but like a staying chaser in horse racing, you know, like at a Denman or an Arkel.

Just that sort of just putting the hammer down to the point where no one could can live with him.

Just the power, just

the build that no one can get on him.

I mean, I was saying this on Twitter before.

There's this talk over the summer.

Oh, Liverpool assigning Alexander Isaac.

He's the best striker in the Premier League.

No,

that is Erling Haaland.

I mean, Erling Haaland is that terrible phrase, generational talent.

There is no one on that level in the Premier League.

He is, when he plays like that, you're just like, there's nothing.

No one could touch him.

You're absolutely right.

It was like as he started running, he cleared the last fence.

And then even though they were all level, he then won by 86 lengths.

You know, there's Peter Bromley saying, oh, there he is.

There's my mind.

The other bit I liked from this game was

sort of Trossard and Bernardo Silva, you know, just kicking the ball in each other's groins or, you know, throwing the ball and then all like falling down.

I was just like this ridiculous.

I mean, but quite sort of primary school.

Everyone's just like punching someone else in the nuts and running away.

Both these men have children, and they were behaving like that.

It was oh dear.

Anyway, anyway, at that point, probably very good for Liverpool.

We'll beat Everson 2-1 in the early kickoff on Saturday.

5, win from 5.

We should start with the Gravenbirch goal, Dan.

Alan McCoy's called it a half-volley.

For shame, McCoyst.

I thought you were better than that.

He takes that so early.

The ball hasn't even got to him yet.

We'll get to his assist, but his goal is absolutely brilliant.

Yeah, I had it in my head a hooked finish.

Is that a thing?

Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you.

Is that a thing?

that's that's what i was calling it in my head he's a he's he's a really really good player if he can suddenly add goals to his game and assist to his game he was the most deep lying midfielder yesterday and he was the most deep line midfielder for liverpool the entirety of last season but if he suddenly starts adding goals to it to his game he's um he's a really really frightening player and i think he's a player that really really benefited from the fact that when slot first came in they just didn't do anything in the in the transfer market.

Everyone said Liverpool need a number six.

They still haven't replaced Fabinho.

They need a number number six.

Slot kept his powder dry, he was evaluating what he'd got, and he realised there was a ready-made solution for Liverpool's midfield already there, who'd been in and out of the team the season before.

And I think sometimes players just need to know that they're going to play and know that they're going to have a run of games.

And Gravenberg's just had that the entirety of Slot's reign.

And they've got a superb squad now with loads of different options.

For him to get a goal and an assist yesterday, I think he's probably the first name on the team sheet for Liverpool.

I think

he's that important.

And annoyingly, my dad put him in his fantasy football team for absolutely no reason at all.

He 1% owned

in the world in fantasy football.

And that week, my dad puts him in his fantasy football team.

He gets a goal and assist for the first time in the game for Liverpool.

So it's been a frustrating weekend all round.

Sure.

I'm trying to work out what's less interesting than someone talking about their football team.

It's someone talking about their dad's fantasy football team.

Well done for going there.

I mean, his assist as well, Barry, was absolutely perfect for Ekotike.

Yeah,

absolutely, beautifully weighted pass into the path of Ekatike, whose run he spotted.

And Ekatike's finish was great,

shooting through Pickford's legs.

And

weirdly, after they went 2-0 up, Liverpool kind of fell apart, I thought.

And it became apparent why they have this

habit of throwing away two gold leads.

I was doing the minute-by-minute in the Guardian.

I said, yes, Liverpool 2-0 up now.

Everton have them exactly where they want them.

And it almost came to pass because Everton hadn't really been in the game until that point, but they

got better and better and better.

They created chances.

Betto didn't have a good game for them.

He missed a couple of half chances.

The ball wasn't sticking when they fired it his way.

But I thought Jack Realish had another another great game for Everton.

Ilaman Dye on the other wing was excellent.

Both of them played a part in Idrisa Ganagay's

goal.

It was a good goal.

And

Everton were, they'd probably come away from that thinking they should have got a point.

And they probably would have deserved a point, I think.

Yeah, I don't know if I agree with you, Barry.

I don't know what you think, John.

I always felt that Everton were kind of, they were good and they have been playing well.

And you're right about Grealish and they created stuff, but you always felt Liverpool had

enough.

And actually, I thought Slot, it was impressive his starting selection of

playing Conor Bradley, playing a proper right back against Grealish, bringing in McAllister, putting Wertz on the bench, saying, look, we need some bit more steel for this game.

Yeah, it's probably a big call, isn't it, to leave your £125 million

new playmaker on the bench for that fixture.

But I suppose when you consider the damage that's been done to Liverpool players in recent years in that fixture, Virgil Van Dijk, obviously leading that list, You've got to protect your crown jewels a little bit.

This is the thing with Liverpool.

They've got, you know, five wins from five, but in every game, they haven't had to play that well, and they're good at just staying away from the opponent.

Which is what they did a lot last season.

It was a bit of a revive of last season where they didn't necessarily play 90 minutes through, it was just excellent.

There was no signature performance, but they held off Everton.

I think that's right.

if Everton thought they could get something in the game, it was a fairly slim chance.

Liverpool were

better and are better.

They look like they could run away with it like they did last season because everyone else is fighting over scraps at this point.

And we haven't even seen Isaac properly yet.

I mean, we've seen him for a few minutes.

And we've not seen Wurtz particularly flower.

We're not quite in the fraud department just yet.

It's interesting taking him out of that game, but it worked.

So, Arne Slot,

whatever he's doing, it's working.

Yeah, Matthew says, How significant is Liverpool's five-point lead at this stage of the season?

I was just looking at their fixtures down.

You know, they go to in the league, they go to Palace, which has not always been a happy place for them, then they go to Chelsea, then they're home to Manchester United, away to Brentford, and November.

They have Villa,

Manchester City, and Forest.

You know, and they include, they've also got to play, you know, Real Madrid in this, uh, that period as well.

I know that's the next month month or two, but you're just sort of thinking, you know, how early will they run away with it?

Or, or, or how significant do you think this is?

Because quite often it's, you know, two or three points that wins you a league.

Well, it wasn't, it wasn't for Liverpool last year, was it?

It was about 100 points.

They weren't too, first of all, they weren't too far away from going unbeaten last season.

So far, they've won every single game in the league.

And now you feel like they're more built to kind of fight on these multiple fronts, different selections for different games.

This is a team that can pretty much beat anyone now, and they can do it in lots of different ways with lots of different team selections.

They look the best equipped, obviously, because they've been at the top of the league and they've won every game.

But Arsenal and Mancitia, I spoke about that margin for error earlier.

Already, Arsenal fans, you'll be thinking, God, we can't slip up again for a month or so here because that gap's going to just get wider and wider and wider.

And it is almost that psychological element that Liverpool, you'd think Liverpool, some people are saying they haven't even played well yet.

They've not even clicked into gear at this point, yet they're still winning every single game.

So I think it's very, very worrying for the rest of the title chasers, however many of them there may.

But I did very enjoy Jack Grealish after the game talking sort of like in the way that every fan would about the booking for Kieran and Dewsbury Hall for taking an early free kick and his own booking that he didn't even know had happened.

Yeah, it was like he was on a radio phoning and an angry fan.

Just to clear something up about the Kieran and Dewsbury Hall booking for taking a free kick too quickly.

He had been warned previously.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that.

So while taking a free kick quickly is not necessarily a bookable offence,

persistent infringements are.

So that's why he got booked.

He had been warned and the ref had said wait for the whistle and then he did it again.

So that's why the booking was.

I still think it's a bit fussy of the ref to book him for it, but that is the explanation for the booking.

I kind of agree with jack grealish in and david moise as well that three minutes didn't seem a whole lot of added time but you could counter argue that everton didn't really turn up for the first 35 minutes so

what you know was another two going to make that much difference or two or three minutes of added time and but yeah i i couldn't understand that gripe and

grealish didn't realize he'd been booked after the final whistle for dissent I fully expected Darren England to produce a yellow and then a red during his post-match interview.

At what point are you immune from getting another booking?

You have to be in your house and have shut the front door.

And then Darren England is not allowed in.

They are the rules.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin at Old Trafford.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, Manchester United 2, Chelsea won.

This was fun, John.

It was so wet.

The first game in Premier League history to see two or more goals, red cards, and substitutions in the first half.

Just all sorts of fun.

I don't know if the football was good.

I don't know if we can draw any conclusions about either side from the match, but I don't mind.

I had a good time watching it.

My conclusion is that Jonathan Wilson's prediction that Chelsea are going to win the league is looking way off beam.

So

let's face it, we're all rejoicing in that.

that.

Let's take the positives, yes.

It's not happening for the great man, is it?

Well, Manchester United have found a way to win.

It's get the goalkeeper sent off after four minutes or whatever.

Maybe that's a tactic now.

Launch it long for Buemo and get them on the chase and

you do your worst.

Yes, very odd game.

Very funny game.

The weather was amazing.

We speak on Sunday, of course, where the Le Classique Classique in France was called off because of bad weather.

But that doesn't happen in Manchester.

That is just a Saturday night on the town.

That type of weather.

And yeah, there is no finer sight at times, is there, than the sliding tackle where momentum carries them off the pitch.

And Mark Cuccarella is a player who rather enjoyed those conditions, didn't they?

They added to his armoury of shithausery.

And he wasn't the only one throwing in tackles.

Casimiro,

a guy who's been sent off an awful lot in his career, he's really good at the what me innocent look, you know, when the cards come when he clearly knows that what is going to happen.

I did think when that happened, oh God, United have blown it now.

We're into Ruben Amarim out mode, but thankfully that is cast aside for the moment.

Instead, we're in Enzo Maresca.

Is he all that mode?

There's this really odd thing with Cole Palmer, with some of the substitutions, and people are asking questions, is Mareska the right man for whatever it is the Chelsea project is?

And none of us really know what that is, do we?

We'll get on to Mareska and his dad's working hours

in a little bit.

Deadliest catch.

Yeah, exactly.

Like Robert Sanchez.

And I think when people don't include this in whether he's a good enough goalkeeper to be the Chelsea keeper.

He's had some decent performances recently and was good in the Club World Cup.

But you have to add this in.

It's like terrible decision-making making at quite an important stage, i.e., right at the start of a football match.

Yeah, pretty rash.

Not only was it denying goal scoring opportunities, well, it was a pretty dangerous tackle.

It was very, very high

where he caught him.

When Jonathan Wilson was lauding them as title favourites, I said to him, you will never win a title.

with that guy in gold.

It just won't happen.

He's not good enough for Chelsea.

And he has had some decent moments

in the last few months.

But fundamentally, I don't think any other premier league team would have him as their goalkeeper i i genuinely believe that so he is a big big problem because he is capable of of these moments and it has cost them in in a huge game and manchester united needed a they needed a gimme some something like that i think it's massively papered over the cracks that they were able to to play against 10 men and get some confidence and and get the goal that they needed in that time but

I just think it has papered over.

The only progress I can still see from Manchester United after that game is that last time he absolutely hammered it down.

The roof leaked, and I don't think the roof leaks this time.

So, I guess we can say that the project is making some form of progress.

But to answer your question, Sanchez is hopeless.

A marginal game there.

I don't know what you made of this, Barry.

I mean, we've sort of mentioned Casemiro to get sent off when you're a man.

I mean, clearly, don't get sent off in any football match, but

totally ludicrous to be dafter than Robert Sanchez in this match.

Yeah, um, of the match, I loved it.

I thought the first half was just hilarious and really entertaining.

Casemiro,

I think he was a bit unlucky with the second yellow card, to be honest, but

he gave the ref a decision to make and there was no need for it.

The first one was just stupid.

One of the guys I was watching the game with said when he got booked, like, what the hell is he doing?

That's just so daft.

And he was completely right.

And you could.

you kind of knew oh he's going to get another one isn't he and he truly did but um the substitutions Maresca made after the Sanchez red card I think he rushed into that and got them wrong and Manchester United held on it's a good win but I I can't read anything into it given the weather given the conditions given the this

Sanchez situation I can't read too much into that yeah there were some good quotes before this game one was Ruben Amrim asked if he would change 3-4-2-1 he said no not no one will make him change it.

Not even the Pope.

Just think on what point the Pope would ring him up.

Or would the Pope ring 606 and say, come up, Leo, Leo XIV on the line from the Vatican?

What's your point, Leo?

And he says, yeah, Amerim's got to go for three, he's got to go 4-3-3.

If he doesn't, I'll excommunicate him.

Exactly.

So that was good.

But then Mareska, Sal saying, since Mareska doesn't seem to be supporting his dad the way everyone else in football does, should we start a Kickstarter for Mareska Sr.?

He was talking about, I think, Raheem Sterling and the fact, you know, the weather footballers have it tough and very much sounded like a phone, you know, someone doing a phone in saying, you know, this isn't tough.

You know, my dad's a coal miner.

He said his dad is a fisherman who is 75 years old and still works 2 a.m.

to 10 a.m.

out on the boat, on the trawlers, to which me and Charlie Baker did the phone in, what's your dad's name?

What's his job?

And what's his working hours?

To which someone just rang in and said, Ken, dead, all the time.

Thank you so much for that call.

It was quite funny.

Anyway, let's talk about Graham Potter.

Lots of reports that he's under significant pressure.

I think we knew that.

Karen Brady sounding out Nuno and Gary O'Neill.

Some mention of Slav and Billich.

They lost at home to Crystal Palace.

Have six wins from 25 games since his appointment in January.

John, it's not, it's never been great.

You know, it feels

the air of inevitability is circling Mr.

Potter.

It certainly is.

It certainly is.

And there was always this idea, wasn't there, that the ownership of West Ham

tend to take the time over this.

I mean, Slav and Billich last time, obviously, had a season or so of being very good, and it felt like a slow puncture from that point.

And you knew he was leaving at a certain point.

It just took so long.

Graeme Potter, I suspect that the...

the moment of execution will come rather quicker than that.

Nuno and West Ham, it just seems to fit to me.

I don't think they'll like it, but they don't like much, actually, and haven't liked.

I mean, they like Slavon Billich, funny enough, but

actually, who was the last manager they liked?

Because they didn't really love Moyes, even though he won them a trophy.

No, Moyes was, I mean, you know, Moyes is doing a fine job at Everton, a club where he belongs, and yet he's been the best

West Ham manager, but they still didn't.

Being a West Ham manager, you know, Sam Allardyce did a fairly decent John Lyell.

John Lyle, mate.

You like John Lyell, but even he got sacked.

You know, that was,

he went to Ipswich and did a great job there.

And it's like the

you just being a West Ham manager is a tough old gig, really, because

they're just again, again, we go back to the certain clubs have a complaining thing.

And again, they've got West Ham has a when the London Stadium goes off, it's normally in outrage at the team's performances.

It's not worked out.

Graeme Potter proved a pretty poor fit when I think most of us, including myself, thought, yeah, there's a sensible head to get it sorted.

Someone actually quite in the John Lyle mode of being quite calm, reserved,

let the circus take place over there and I will just get on with my job.

But it hasn't worked out.

He's dealt a bad hand in a particular, pretty weak squad and some rather odd transfer dealings.

The thing is with Nuno is he's a well-connected guy and I think that's why a club might turn to him because you could get some decent players in because of his connections, which is sort of the way how football works these days.

I mean, it's more connection singular, isn't it?

But it is a good connection.

It's a pretty damn good connection, yeah.

But I mean,

and that, uh, George Mendez, of course, and uh, and this is how the games run, and uh, I don't know if they would like that style of football, but it feels to me that we talk a little less about the West Ham Way these days.

It feels like it's gone a little bit.

I think they just want it to be not crap anymore.

I think that does.

Just make it okay.

Yeah.

3,000 West Ham fans protested ahead of the game.

Fans had banners and flags directed at the owners, saying, sack the board during it.

And it's worth mentioning Tarek Mitchell's volley, which was absolutely beautiful on his wrong foot.

That win took them briefly fourth.

I'm beaten in nine in all competitions this season as well.

So, you know, we know Palace are good.

They haven't lost in the league in about 16 games.

17, I think it is yeah i read earlier uh just on the new no thing if i was him i would avoid that place like the plague and

he'll surely get a better offer it seems to i mean think of where he went to wolves okay that was a nice gig but he went he went to spurs when he wasn't wanted and then he took on forest which you know is a let's just say managing up at that place is a

reasonably difficult task and he likes to challenge new no and he is one of football's great diplomats.

Until recently.

Well,

it's very true, Doug, but I think he managed that situation rather well.

He's like, I want out of here, so I will let you know.

Can I just say a sack the board process?

Has a board ever been sacked off the back?

I don't think I've ever seen a board sacked in my life, anyway.

No, I think you're probably right.

I'm just wondering: will I watch an hour-long documentary called Football's Greatest Diplomats?

Maybe I would.

Kate Del says does the reintroduced Areola's new look help or hinders Barry's ability to identify West Hamke?

He did look like a bloke they'd just found.

He'd put on a white sweatshirt.

For a second, when he first got the ball, I was like, That's not, who's that?

That's not the keeper.

Oh, and then I looked at him and went, Who's that?

And I went, Oh, I checked, it's Areola.

All right, maybe he's just trying to make himself look as unlike Fabianski just to help Barry and the rest of us.

Let's go to Molly New Wolves one, Leeds three.

What did you make of this one, Baz?

Well, I think I sat here on this very podcast, was it maybe

last Monday, and said that for all their endeavor and huff and puff, I thought leads were going to go down because I couldn't see where the goals are going to come from.

So, lo and behold, the goal make a fool of me on Saturday by scoring three in the first half against Wolves.

And

Wolves obviously took the lead.

I thought Wolves would win this game.

I really did.

And

their latest defeat, fifth in a row, has knocked me out of a game of last man standing.

But

yeah, fair play to Leeds.

Dominic Calvert Loon got a good goal.

They got three decent goals, I think.

Anton Stack with a rocket of a free kick.

Okafor, a lovely finish after Agbadou had gifted possession

to Leeds.

And Dominic Calvert Loon got between two defenders to score a very good header.

Calvert Loon seems like a smashing fella, but he's injury prone.

I don't think he's never going to be the most prolific striker in the world, but it's good that he's got off the mark for leads vittor pereira looked totally baffled as to what to do next before he went in for the halftime break and he made three changes and they didn't really help in any way so they lost again but they're just silly mistakes uh are costing them he's got a new contract though hasn't he so that's uh yeah new to

lost every single game and got got a new contract wolves i predict them to go down every season and they didn't do it this season so that might mean that they they finally do go down but you know every now and again someone makes a sub and the crowd will go who

i forgot when you named the wolves 11 i'm doing that at every single player i don't know who anyone is anymore footwolves

it's a good point yeah i did when the goal the guy who scored it was a lovely goal actually wasn't it cretchie scored and then i wikiped i wikiped him it said he was a centre back i was like is he i mean i don't know so i don't know what he was doing there but it was look he was on the end of a beautiful move but yes pereira says i'm not worried about my future i don't need to answer because i'm not worried about my future i'm worried about the results of course i'm confident i can turn it around uh but yes nought points from five i mean why would he be worried about his future he's just signed a new three-year contract he's a journeyman he's well traveled and if he gets sacked he'll get another job somewhere else why worry and he'll just get three he'll get three years money three years money that's insane isn't it i'd be like i'd be like give me the boot i'll take it he'll get what will he get he's probably on three million a year could take nine million pounds to have three years off i could do it um to the Amex, John, you were there.

Brighton two Spurs two.

Thomas Frank said it was their best performance of the season.

Do you agree?

Well, no, but I suppose Match have played very well quite a lot of this season, haven't they?

And I didn't, listen, I've sat through quite a lot of Thomas Frank press conferences, and he's a vibes guy.

So what you do is at that point, he's saying, hey,

he liked the bits that were difficult and it was a that they found some strength through adversity rather than it all going their way.

The two goals Brighton scored were against the run of play.

I mean, Minte's goal was pretty much all his own work.

Nice ball from Rutter, of course.

Lovely finish for a team that does struggle a bit to score.

Ayari's goal, a beauty as well.

One of those hit early.

So the keeper's wrong-footed.

And then...

Did you hear him in the post-match when whoever on that said, you know, was that one of your best goals?

He went, not really.

Confident young young man.

Confident young man.

And

they are full.

This is it with Brighton.

They're full of confident young players.

But when they bring on James Milner to rescue things, you can see that that is possibly the problem that they have.

There's probably a bit too much promising up and coming.

Carlos Balaba, you know, a player that's been talked about an awful lot, subbed off at halftime because he was tired.

And Krabby Herzler did quite a long sermon about how young players, it's an oscillation.

You're not always going to be brilliant.

There's points where they drop off, and he's had his head turned.

I did enjoy Brighton's protest at Richarlison's goal because the goal was so scrappy, they just appeared to be

appealing for anything.

And it was just like this is this is not a good enough goal to grace.

This goal was so crap, there's no way this could be allowed to stand, and

even appealing for offside, as Lewis Dunk is on the line, flailing at the ball.

And then, of course, they concede an own goal.

Brighton,

full of quality, a bit enigmatic.

Spurs are going in the right direction.

And

I continue to be a huge fan of Thomas Frank and what he's doing there.

Before we end part two, just to mention the sad news about Matt Beard, the former Liverpool women's manager and Chelsea women's manager as well.

Liverpool's match at Aston Villa was postponed on Sunday.

He led them to back-to-back WSL titles in 2013 and 2014 and returned for a second spell in 2021.

In a statement, Liverpool paid tribute to an extremely committed and successful manager.

He was also a person of real integrity and warmth.

He'll always be remembered with genuine fondness by everyone he worked with at the club.

Rest in peace, Matt.

The Guardian Women's Football Weekly on Tuesday will do a tribute to Matt Beard.

Farrell Williams did a very emotional interview on Five Live on Sunday.

Tom Gary has written a really nice piece in The Guardian.

Barry and I spoke to Ian Abrahams, the moose on talk sport, who does a lot of women's football and he was really cut up and knew Matt Beard really well.

I saw Flo Lloyd Hughes wrote a really nice piece in

as well in tribute to Matt Beard.

So Barlow Count's a lovely, lovely guy lost way too soon.

And we send, of course, our thoughts to his family and his wife and his children and his friends as well.

And we'll be back in a second.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly, to Craven Cottage, Barry.

Hold on now a second.

We're into part three and you're you're going to Craven Cottage.

You've got a Villa fan on, a Sunderland fan on, and you're off to Craven Cottage, are you?

Fine, fine then.

I'm okay with that, to be honest.

Well, I'll tell you why, Barry, because there's only one place to start part three, and that is with your good friend Ethan Pinnock.

Is that why?

That is why you don't want us to start with part three.

David says, can we have the usual comparison of Ethan Pinnock's latest header, Brackett's shoulder, with Barry's?

I mean, what am I?

And

the funniest part of it is, it's the second game where Fulham have got a goal by one of the opposition players just standing there and hitting him and going in.

This is a brilliant tactic from Marco Silver.

Poor old Ethan was stitched up by whichever of his teammates it was that jumped, missed the header, impaired his view so that he, I think he was...

He wasn't quite standing still.

I think he was trying to get out of the way of the ball, but it did hit his shoulder and ricochet into the back of the net.

It was undeniably funny.

He looked suitably crestfallen when it went in,

but ultimately it didn't really make any difference because it was

Fulham's third goal.

It was a good result for them.

They came from behind to win the game.

Josh King had a very unfortunate rick to gift Brentford their opener, Michael Damsgaard's opener.

But

I thought the goal of this game was undeniably Fulham's second.

Oh, yeah.

Brilliant, precise pass from Alex Awobi, and then a splendid finish from

Harry Wilson, the Wellish fellow.

Just a lovely curled first-time finish into the corner.

But I thought Awobi's pass was sensational.

Awobi's so good.

Awobi's been such a good player for Fulham.

I thought he was unlucky not to be in the PFA team of the year last year.

I thought he was brilliant for a lot of the season.

Awobin, he's just continued.

Sometimes a player just suits a club.

Awobi's brilliant for Fulham every every single week.

And Wilson loves a goal against Brentford Dockers.

I think he scored the winner against Brentford last season, season, if my memory serves me correctly as well.

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Yeah, I'm a big Harry Wilson fan.

Okay, then to the Stadium of Light, Barry, Sundland one, Villa one, the Glendenning, Bardell or Derby.

Who wants to start?

Dan, you can as a sad Villa fan.

Oh,

Villa will not get a better chance to get their first win of the season than that, but they're notoriously bad against playing against 10 men.

Sorry, I'd text Barry as soon as we went down to 10 men and said Villa are hopeless against 10 men.

And so that trend continued.

I mean, before Matty Cash scored, the best thing that any Villa player had done this season was Mati Cash getting kicked in the bollocks in the same game.

And we are just not very good at the moment.

We are slow.

We don't look like we're ever going to be able to break a team down again.

Even when we go 1-0 up, we don't build on it.

And we end up letting in what I thought was a pretty poor goal.

Uniemory described it as lazy.

I'd be inclined to agree with him.

It's just hard to see how it turns for Villa at the moment.

And I thought this season might be more difficult than the kind of last few under unai emery but i can't say that i envisage this level of rubbishness from us because we are just hopeless at the moment yeah you you know you you said a few weeks ago look in unaimri we trust are you still in unaimri we trust yeah look i i honestly think if unai emery walked out on this club tomorrow we would go down I really think he he's that important.

The whole club is built around Una Emre.

There's clearly something very, very wrong at the moment.

Even the way just he walked down the tunnel before the final whistle, I thought that was quite strange.

He's not really much of a much of a showman.

Emre, that's the kind of thing you associate with someone like Jose Emmarini.

In fact, it was the 54th minute, really was.

I mean,

I would have understood if he had have decided to do that.

He's talking about them not playing the way he wants them to play, but even just the way we're setting up at the moment, I don't understand team selection.

Sometimes the subs are a bit weird.

And I don't think this is what's happening.

But just watching Villa, they do have the look of a team that's not playing for the manager, which is a bit concerning because I can't believe that that would be the case given what Emory's done for all those players, because we were going nowhere until he came in, and many of those players were part of that Villa team that was going nowhere.

He's got them, he turned them into Champions League players like last season.

And the club's been really highly positions in Europe consecutively.

I can't believe that that would be the case, but unfortunately, that is what it looks like at the moment because we are useless.

Barry from Emil Sunderland, seventh in the league, eight points from five games.

Um, and uh, another point, you know, yes, and with ten men to salvage a point when you're one down is pretty impressive.

Yeah, I thought it was a heroic effort from Sunderland.

John spoke earlier about Arna Slott protecting Liverpool's crown jewels.

Sadly, Matty Cash's crown jewels were afforded no such protection

when he fell on Rynildo, our left back, and who took exception to it and lashed out and caught Matty in the sore spot.

And I have absolutely no complaints about the red card.

It was a silly thing to do.

But it took him so long to leave the pitch and he was trying protesting his innocence.

And you just, oh, just get off, man.

You're an idiot.

And I presumed at that point, because there was still over an hour left.

I thought, yeah, there's no way Sunday getting anything for this game.

They were actually the better team in the second half, I thought.

They hit the bar, they were getting crosses into the box.

Then they went behind Robin Roos, who was so good against Palace last season, let in a very soft one.

That cash shot from distance.

It did swerve in the air, but he got both hands on it and still let it in.

But I thought the equaliser from Wilson Isidore was thoroughly deserved.

A lovely cushioned header over the top from Granite Jacka,

and he volleyed it in despite having two men on him.

So

well done him.

Well done, Sunderland.

Well done, Sunderland.

Bernie won Forest one.

Ange's wait for a first win.

Goes on, John.

I've seen progress in the last seven days, he says.

I know it was Arsenal away, but the general approach, we've made enormous progress.

All that takes time, but that's the exciting bit, says Ange.

Yeah, he said, didn't he, that Wednesday would be when it kicked off, and obviously they lost at Swansea.

And this one was.

I mean, how do we gauge Ange?

The fact is, he wasn't quite looking completely towards the floor in his post-match interview

meant he was a bit more happy about this performance.

Bernie, tough nuts to crack, aren't they, for quite a lot of teams?

I continue to be impressed by Scott Parker as a manager, which

is a question.

Did you ever think that Scott Parker would be a manager?

You know, there's certain players, but then I think, but actually, but then I think that...

Yeah, I think so.

I think he had that sort of leadership.

And, you know, when he was playing for England and

sort of in a sort of Jordan Henderson style, you know, I

was thinking about this because he was a remember, he won the famously won the Football Writers Bro of the Year when West Ham got relegated.

And

famously, at that time, in particular, there was a lot of West Ham fans within the press corps.

But he was known the voting committee was Ray Winston,

Danny Dyer,

Danny Dyer, and a pot of jelly deal.

Yeah.

And the ceremony was at Ken's Calf on Green Street.

Yeah.

Of course.

But I think part of that was that he was known for delivering these Churchillian speeches as a player at halftime.

And, you know, we've seen him a couple of times where he's given actually very lucid interviews.

And I find him just quite an impressive character.

And he's prepared.

You know, he will have made good money out of the game, but he's prepared to get himself in the muck and nettles of management.

Clearly, he loves the game, loves the challenges.

I mean, at Bournemouth, I suppose he got them promoted and was cast aside, but hey, well done to him.

He's on that sort of revolving door of managers, isn't he?

That there's a few of them.

Nuno.

I mean, we've gone past the Allardyce and Pulis era.

We're now in Nuno and Scott Parker.

Would be one of those.

These managers that sort of move around clubs.

That's they're the new.

Maybe Uniemory might be another one in a while, Dan.

Let's hope not, John.

Well, I know.

I'm not trying to.

Well, actually, I am trying to make you feel bad.

I think that's the new revolving door of managers.

We need this, don't we?

Graham Potter is another, perhaps, in there.

Yeah.

Gary O'Neill.

He's on that.

He's on that.

Gary O'Neill, yeah.

All those names.

Alan Kirbishley 14-1 sort of tribute.

Yeah.

Finally, Born with Nil Newcastle, Nil.

John, you had your eyes on this while Barry and Dan were firmly gawking at the game at the Stadium of Light.

Yes.

I wish I'd watched that game.

Well, Dan, honestly,

producer Joel detailed me with this, and I could say that I saw absolutely nothing of interest in it.

And we

actually, that is, I saw absolutely nothing of interest in that game.

It sounded so flat, wasn't it?

You know, when there's just absolute

silence for the vitality.

Yeah, just, yeah, there was no vitality.

I suppose I saw a couple of decent touches for a big man from Volta Madis, so that was alright.

But yeah, God, it was flat.

Bournemouth actually seems to be better at defending now that they've sold off their entire defence, which is quite interesting.

You know, they cashed in

probably got over 100 million or something for their defenders.

And now I like True Fair.

True Fair looks good.

Yeah.

I think I mentioned already what Charlie Baker says, it does sound like what the kids say when they agree with you.

Yeah, no,

calm, calm, calm.

yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, Newcastle did play Barcelona on Thursday.

We forgot to mention Manchester City beating Napoli.

It's worth mentioning those goals from Rashford, Barry, because they were both

absolutely brilliant.

And the second is that's such a great goal.

Yeah, big occasion at Newcastle.

Good atmosphere at the ground.

They had the TIFO and the flags, the ACDC theme TIFO, but Barcelona were ultimately just too good for them.

Newcastle played well in the first half, could have scored two goals.

I think Harvey Barnes and Anthony Gordon both missed presentable chances.

And

Barcelona bossed the second half.

Newcastle got a late constellation, but it looked like they might snatch a point.

But I think, yeah, sorry, you asked me about Rashford and I've gone off on a mad tangent.

That's okay.

Very, very good header.

And his second goal, an absolute smashing shot.

Oh, and there was one instance in this.

He tried another shot and he hit Fabian Scharr, like smashed the ball into his face shar went down needed treatment wasn't taken off and then about 10 minutes later hunkered down looking very disoriented and had to be taken off so just a little mild diversion on my high horse i think he should have been taken off uh immediately but he wasn't um but yeah a very good performance from uh rashford and

They were his first goals for Barcelona, I believe.

So presumably he'll kick on.

Now, Hansie Flick seems to be a big fan of his, and we know Thomas Tuchel is a big fan of his.

So this could be a big season for him.

Yeah.

I was listening to someone saying Lamin Yamal used to sort of play Rashford on Feastwood or something.

It's very excited to see him there.

Jim says, hello, long time listener, first time email.

In regards to the claim on the last pod that Oliver Glasnar and Nikita Khrushchev were more Stalin than Stalin, it is worth pointing out that de-Stalinization was one of the central policies of Khrushchev following his rise to power, a policy most famously exemplified by his secret speech denouncing Stalin's cult of personality.

Thank you, Jim.

As a Liverpool fan writing an email about the Soviet Union, please feel free to make as many jokes as needed about my support for the Reds.

Thanks.

Love the pod.

Graham says, hey guys, American listener here would love to purchase some I-35 to Philadelphia merch when you make it over to the state on a live tour.

A hilarious statement from Max, considering that I-35 runs north-south from Minnesota to Texas.

Its closest point to Philly as it passes through Iowa or Missouri is somewhere.

No fault on the intricacies of the freeway interstate system, Max.

It's probably a great road for finding you some real gas station barbecue, he says.

Uh, and then he sent me uh

a long link to what highway numbers actually mean in the United States, which I confess uh I haven't read yet.

But Graham, trust me, I will.

Thank you for the great shows every week.

Thank you, Graham, and thanks, everybody.

That'll do uh for today's podcast.

Thank you, Baz.

Thanks.

You can print that highway guide off and read it on your flight back to Australia tomorrow.

It might help you not off honestly oh gross

24 hours on an airplane with two young children is just the worst thing you can ever do to yourself so i will speak to everybody on wednesday and you may detect exhaustion from me uh thank you john how secret was this speech if if we are talking about it on presumably 70 years later on a football podcast well no this is uh the first time it's ever been mentioned so you know we're trying to crack into the the you know the history market but because apparently those podcasts are quite successful, John.

So if we just drop in a little bit of we're coming for you, Tom Holland.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah,

thank you, Dan.

Thank you, Max.

Good luck on your travels.

Yeah, thank you, and cheer up.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

We'll be back on Wednesday.

This is The Guardian.

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