Liverpool’s late show stays on air and Kane sinks Chelsea: Football Weekly Extra

This is The Guardian.

Every day there's a new challenge to face.

So meet Tremble, the technology company that connects your physical and digital worlds, allowing you to make decisions and take intelligent action to get the hard work done.

And the best part, you can do it all faster than you've ever thought possible.

Check them out at Tremble.com.

You ready to turn data points into decision points or turn deadlines into finish lines?

How about turning possibilities into profits?

Then turn to Tremble.

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start?

Thumbtack knows home, so you don't have to.

Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is.

With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one.

You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

Download today.

Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

If football matches were 82 minutes long, they're not.

Why do people say things like this?

Liverpool would have no wins this season.

Five games, they've won three in injury time.

Fortunately for them, football matches are as long as they are.

Virgil Van Dyke, the hero last night, against Athleti, Q some vintage, Diego Simeone.

Chelsea lose convincingly, and Munich defensively not at it against Elise Diaz and Kane.

Also, today, waves and waves of PSG as they demolish Atalanta.

A solid win for Inter and a great comeback from Bodo.

A sad injury time for Ange in Swansea.

Two goals in injury time mean they're out of the Carabao Cup.

We'll look ahead to the Premier League weekend, answer your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barrett Glenn Denning.

Hello.

Hi, Max.

Johnny Lou, welcome.

Hello.

And Archie Winthutt, nice to have you on.

First of the season, I think, Archie.

Second, but it's nice seeing you again.

Oh, too.

Were you on yesterday Archie?

I'm sleep deprived.

Saw you a few weeks ago but

it's always good to know that I leave a lasting impression.

Football just never stops Archie.

But look try better this time so I can remember that you're on.

Oh yes we did a fuller minute of course of course I remember now.

Liverpool three, Athletico Madrid two.

How do we, Johnny, how do we work, describe how Liverpool, are they getting away with this?

Is this just a relentless sign of champions?

Or is this just a coincidence?

What they're winning goals in the 92nd, 95th, 83rd, 100th and 88th minutes, not going back chronologically this season.

Well, there's a lot going on there.

I mean, I think these things become self-replicating after a while because of the mentality that they build.

Slot talked about the fitness of the team.

And I think that stylistically, they are just quite...

they are relentless.

They don't have,

you know, they don't seem to drop off.

They seem to raise their game and raise their intensity towards the end of games.

These all factor into it.

I mean, the other point worth making is that Liverpool probably should have had that game wrapped up and sealed long before they needed a winning goal.

And if you look at some of these late shows this season, Bournemouth, you could say that they probably should have won that.

Burnley, they should have won that quite easily, again,

well before injury time.

So it's not like they're sort of, you know, with the potential exception of the Newcastle game, they're not really stealing these games they are producing they are creating a weight of chances that you you have to you have to sense has is going to tell at some point and also starting games generally pretty well they haven't been behind at all this season but yeah it does it does it become self it becomes self-fulfilling after a while you know opposition teams know what you're capable of yeah the anfield crowd kind of senses something and and they kind of raise their game they raise their level it was a totally needless i think it was a totally needless corner i can't remember who gives it away, but Shopperslai,

you know, crosses it in and Bradley is putting the guy under pressure.

And that's the corner from which Van Dijk converts it.

Sometimes these things just go for you and they align.

I was going to say, that corner from which Van Dijk nods it in.

On first glance, I was like, hang on.

Why is that athleti player marking Van Dijk?

He looks way too small for him.

Checks notes.

Ah, that's their centre-back, Robin Lenomo.

Robin Le Lenemont, yeah, he's one of my favourites.

Robin Lenormand.

And I was like, ah, okay, well, he surely would be a good fit.

Except, I checked it, he's 12 kilos lighter than Van Dijk.

And you just see this kind of push away as if it's kind of like

this sibling, get away from me, you ain't touching me, kind of thing.

And then I'm thinking, well, surely Alexander Sorlott would have been a better choice to mark him.

But yeah, these things in hindsight when Virgil Van Dijk goes and heads the winner are easy to say.

I would point out to Liverpool's slew of recent late goals that they've brought this mentality in from Bayer Lever Cousin.

This is what Lever Cousin were doing two seasons ago with Florian Wierts and Jeremy Frimpong.

So they have hit the lottery in terms of the amount of late winning goals that they have been on the pitch for now.

I think as a player,

you must be lucky if

you enjoy this a couple of times.

But they're well into double figures now.

And, like, what a drug that must be

that you're just continually hunting down.

Albeit, can it go on?

And then, and then I see the Mick McCarthy meme of it can.

Yeah, I mean, there's no better way to win a football match.

And then, Barry, from that moment, it's a brilliant header from Van Dijk, isn't it?

But then we have the Simeoni moment, which is, you know, I think someone put it in the group, you know, filed under scenes you don't want to see, but you do want to see.

Oh, absolutely, you want to see them.

Um,

he eventually got a red card because, according to him, he'd been being insulted and abused by a fan or some fans behind the dugout throughout the game.

Then, when Liverpool got the late winner, one imagines the abuse

escalated a notch and he reacted, which he conceded he shouldn't have done but

he does have previous

let's say

uh as a manager and as a player i would say the liverpool fan or fans who were giving him loads were probably quite lucky that there was several stewards there to get between simeone and them um so yeah he got a red card for that I think something and nothing.

Yeah, I mean, he's giving the fans.

I watched one video from like someone's filming it.

You are giving those fans exactly what they wanted.

They are going, we did the right thing to yell at him.

He said what, you know, obviously my reaction is not justifiable.

I insulted him.

It was 90 minutes of being insulted the whole time.

Then you turn around when your opponent has scored and they're still insulting you.

It's not that easy.

The referee understood the situation.

I hope that a team like Liverpool can improve that part.

That was the nice line.

That's a good luck.

Yeah.

But Liverpool, I think, Barry, in this game, you started to see signs of,

and and as Johnny's alluded to, they've been pretty good this season.

But actually, I thought Vertz, especially, you started to see him link up with Soveiz Lai and Salah looked better than I think I've seen him.

So, you know, they're winning all their games, but they started to click, I thought, a bit last night.

Yeah, they've been winning their games without playing as well as we know they can.

They

are making these wins more difficult than they need to be.

I mean, this 3-2 scoreline really flattered that letter-ago, I think.

Florian florian verts people have been sort of looking down their noses and saying well he's not all that is he uh archie's clearly seen far more of him than the rest of us but he

was i thought excellent last night i think he created four or five chances he linked up well with

alex isac isac i thought was decent while clearly looking off the pace.

So that looked like the beginnings of a good relationship there.

Salah as well has been the subject of some disparaging remarks.

I think people just want Salah to have a bad season because he's due one.

And if this is a bad season for him, well, he's doing all right, isn't he?

And I can only see him improving.

I would.

be very happy with this performance if I was Arnaslop, even though Liverpool had to leave it so late to win the game and only won 3-2, because I think their performance was much better than a last-ditch 3-2-1 win.

What I'd say on Vietz is that because he doesn't have the

ego of most number 10s, in that position where they feel like they have to have the ball all the time or they have to

make it about themselves in the decisions that they take.

He can sometimes go under the radar because the way that he plays and the decisions that he takes are what is the best for the team in this moment.

He's capable of dribbling past a few players, but only if the situation calls for it.

And I think that, yeah, it's one of the things that makes him unique.

And

whether he continues to play like that at Liverpool is a question, but whether that will be appreciated is going to be a thing.

Because also, if you look at the amount of big name attacking talent there in that Liverpool team, there are not enough goals and assists to go around for everybody to get the credit that they're going to want, or indeed that people are going to want for Floyd and Wiertz to have justified the 100 million plus fee.

So, I do think there's that.

Just one thing on Athleti, they did have a lot of injuries last night

going into this.

So, to be honest, this was actually probably an okay result for them.

The fact that they came within a whisker of getting a result at Anfield was remarkable.

And the thing that Sid tweeted, which I think is brilliant,

because

Marcus Yorente scoring another double at Anfield, and Sid revealed, Sid Lowe, of course.

I think there's only one Sid in terms of this podcast.

Well, actually, Sidney Poitier did a few of the early ones.

Of course, I forgot.

He said that Marcus Yorente has a dog called Anfield, which I think is great.

Oh, really?

That was the famous game just before the original lockdown.

COVID, was it?

COVID.

Oh, right.

They had the Liverpool Athletic Game and the Cheltenham Festival, which were, it was sort of widely perceived those events should not have been staged.

People say that that game happened just before COVID.

I think COVID.

Yeah, yes, yes.

You're probably right.

Just on verts, Johnny.

He's got

this balance, hasn't he and the ability to sort of take the ball in tight spaces and suddenly have yards of space that were definitely not there when he got the ball no no exactly i think you know that they they they call it taking it taking it on the half turn right you know your body is sort of at a 90 degree angle to the ball and the shape of your body and the first touch allows you to glide it with that first touch into you know the the space that that was previously there wertz is very good at that i mean i think isaac is very good at that as well i thought you know, even though he didn't last, he didn't get to the hour, I thought he,

the way he held up the ball and the way he wants to take it in tight spaces and the way that draws defenders towards him, it creates space around him.

I think that that's a very exciting development for Liverpool.

Slott's philosophy this season is

certainly his attacking philosophy is to basically flood the box with players.

And when they, you know, when there are five or six players rushing into the area, it's a terrifying thing, but also it's quite a chaotic thing.

And

that sort of needs to be worked out you can't really you can train for that kind of thing but you basically just need to keep doing it in different situations until everyone learns who needs to go where salah's goal is a perfect example when salah gets that ball in that sort of slightly withdrawn spot on the on the right wing he's looking for the diagonal into goal he is going on that diagonal and he wants he wants little little layoffs he wants little give and goes he wants dummies and you get out of his way that's the kind of thing that that someone like ekatike or isak is that he will learn over time and once it all clicks, I do think there is a huge amount of potential in that attack.

Not just the talent, but the way Slot will get them combining.

We saw glimpses of that.

Do we think to a level actually where no one will get near them?

Not necessarily in the Champions League, but the ceiling is so high for a team that have won all five games.

It's how dynamic they are.

Johnny talks about it there with the half turns.

And it's just the amount of players there who you would back in one-on-one situations

against opponents, not against the goalkeeper, in that I reckon they'd have the confidence to take the ball past them.

Dribbling, I believe, is the actual phrase that we use.

I think that that's the frightening thing, I think, for many defenders because there's always this talk of can they break down a low block?

And it's like, well,

how many of these players just have the ability to go, well, I can dribble past you, or if not, I've probably got the skill to stick it in the top corner so yeah the fact that Hugo Ekatike comes on and is you know the the striker in reserve on on this night tells you about the quality the one thing I would say though that that second goal from from Mo Sala I didn't think that Graven Bersch actually meant to play the ball through

to Salah I think he kind of mistouches it and then he just but he just kind of holds his posture and he goes yeah yeah no of course of course because the ball kind of gets away from him but that's the thing: is because it's so fluid and so quick, everything looks like it's meant.

And yeah, they are pretty tasty.

Yeah, actually, that move where I think they played it out of the back.

I think Van Dijk did something brilliant, as usual, and then Wertz and Soba's lie and it ended up with Salah hitting the post.

And you thought, oh, that would have been a really

beautiful goal, wouldn't it?

And Barry, unless you were poised to say something, I'm going to move on.

Well, no, just briefly going back to Diego Simeone after the game when he was sort of apologizing for his outburst, he said, I know I cannot fix society.

And I think, I reckon you could probably give it a good go.

And if you look at society in its current form, if Diego Simeone

for some reason stepped down from Atletico Madrid, I would like to see him go around this man in black going to Elon Musk or going to the White House and doing his damnest to fix society.

I think he might do a better job than he thinks.

The purge.

It's like the purge.

Diego Simeone has one night to fix society.

And then when he does, he gets to run down the touchline and grab his.

He runs straight off.

Yeah, exactly.

He doesn't shake hands with anyone.

He just disappears straight down the tunnel.

You never see him again.

Bayonne 3, Chelsea 1.

Probably Chelsea's toughest game in the group stage.

It seemed more than fair, 3-1, I thought, this, Archie.

I think so.

From a Biden perspective, very encouraging that they were able to dominate for such long periods against what is a good team.

The fact that they were able to

play

the kind of football where I can't remember all A's around the Alianz Arena

for a very long time where the locals have been that enthused.

And I think the star of the show for me was Michael Elise.

He has continually stepped up his level ever more increasingly at Bayern since he arrived last summer.

And what he was doing to Mark Kukure kind of reminded me of, you know, how those Turkish ice cream men go, here's your ice cream.

Oh, no, I put a little bit on your nose.

Just the way he kept on taking the ball away from him.

And Kukurea, I did feel a little bit of sympathy for him, him, for how ruthlessly whistled that he continues to be in Germany when I think people here need to understand he didn't make the decision for the handball against Germany in the Euros, which is what this is all going back to, the fact that he handled the ball and the penalty wasn't given.

So because the referee is not there, people in Germany are going like,

they take their anger out on Kukurea.

And Michael Elise picked up the most popular yellow card seen at Bayern in recent years for a foul on him and was continually, I think,

it was bullying to be honest.

From a Bayer perspective, when they are still missing key players, I know Chelsea can say the same thing, but Jamal Musiala is out with a long-term injury.

Alfonso Davies is out with a long-term injury.

The fact that they're bringing on their fourth choice right back just after halftime, which is when I thought, uh-oh, things could start to turn towards Chelsea's favor here.

And instead, Bayern played some of their most fluid football.

And I think that's a really good sign for Vincent Company when you're bringing on a player who everyone's written off apart from you

in Sasha Bowet, this is, and the supposed weakest link of your team is playing well.

I think that speaks to the strength of your team.

I hadn't written Sasha Bowet off, but until 15 seconds ago, I was not totally aware of Sasha Bowet's existence.

So that may have something to do with it.

Oh, like Marco Gorea, you would put in the easy-to-boo box, wouldn't you?

Like, he's easy to

sort of understand why you might boo him.

Without wanting to do this kind of question to you, Barry, Harry Kane is good, isn't he?

He is, Max.

Yeah, he's now got 10 goals in six games this season.

He's got 95 in 102 for Byron.

It must be very exciting to see him banging them in as an England, you being an England fan with a World Cup ahoy.

But it's not just his finishing.

spent a lot of last night doing that thing he gets criticised for doing when he's in an England shirt, which is dropping deep, trying to link up play, blah, blah, blah, with runners going past either side of him.

So when he does that for England and they lose, he gets criticised for it.

But when it works, as it did last night,

he's superb.

He's just getting better and better.

I mean, I still have reservations about Harry Kane, but I thought his performance last night was as near to perfect as you're going to get.

Yeah, only three players have scored 20 or more goals for two different clubs in the Champions League, Ronaldo, Neymar, and Harry Kane.

What did you make of Chelsea, Johnny?

Structurally, I thought there wasn't a huge amount wrong with them.

I mean,

if Mareska looks back at that, he will say, okay, well, the penalty is a bit soft.

Gusteau gives the ball away for the third goal, and that's an individual mistake.

And the first goal, I think they end up with Joel Pedro defending left back against Elise because of a breakdown of a set piece situation.

So

structurally, I don't think there's too much wrong there.

We saw the power of Palmer on the break.

We saw lots of flashes of real promise for Chelsea when they managed to counter Bayern.

So

in terms of that, I don't think there's too much wrong.

I still think that Chelsea have a little bit of an issue.

playing through a really good press and Bayern do have a really good press.

I think there is the potential for little mistakes to to creep in there.

I don't think that's quite locked in.

Caicedo gets gets them out of trouble quite a lot, I think, has needed to.

But I think, you know, I do rate Chelsea.

I think they've started the season pretty well.

So I don't think there's a huge amount to worry about.

Like you said, that is their hardest fixture.

I do just want to mention, sorry, before Archie comes, I do just want to mention that the camera angle at the Alliance is absolute nonsense.

I mean, that is like...

You know, it's really low.

It's basically like you're watching it from just behind the doghouse.

It's absolute park football.

So I just, I wanted to register my dismay at that.

Oh, I'm, do you know, it's interesting.

I'd never, I hadn't spent enough time thinking about that because camera angles are, you know, I can really get, you know, on a high horse about like too high or too low.

Well, they should have got on a higher horse.

Maybe that would have.

Yeah, that would have helped if the cameraman, although trickier to be steady on that, you know, then it would look like ref cam for the whole game.

if if the man on the doing the wide shot is on a horse archie you wanted to come in on something perhaps more important but perhaps not.

Just from a Chelsea perspective,

worth mentioning that they were very unhappy that Yonatant Tar wasn't sent off in the build-up to Cole Palmer's goal for Chelsea.

That's nonsense.

I agree with you, Johnny.

I saw Gel Pedro pulling at Yonatantar's shirt first, and from what I saw, Tar is trying to wriggle free from him.

I say this because Enzo Maresko made a big play of it in his post-match interview saying that, I mean, if there's not blood, then it can't be a red card apparently these days, which I thought was a bit far.

Would be a strange rule, wouldn't it?

Producer John made a good point about Cole Palmer

scoring that goal,

the 89th minute one, you know, that was disallowed.

It was a lovely fit.

It was a great ball and a lovely finish.

But if you are chasing the game, you need to get the ball and not do your novelty celebration.

And of all the celebrations, you cannot pick up a ball if you're doing

he's really limiting himself there.

That should be reserved for equalizing at the very, at the very least.

It's got to be an equalizing goal, that I think.

And yeah, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll do the rest of the Champions League.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratches from the California lottery.

Players, everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field hey a little play makes your day and today it made the game that's all for now coach one more question play the new los angeles chargers san francisco 49ers and los angeles rams scratchers from the california lottery a little play can make your day please play responsibly must be 18 years or older to purchase play or claim avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start thumbtack knows home so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is.

With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro.

You just have to hire one.

You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

Download today.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

PSG for Atalanta nil.

I mean, Barry, this was sort of ominous.

And we talked about Liverpool being ominous, but I mean, PSG, it looked like, and I only watched the highlights.

It was basically PSG cutting through Atalanta over and over and over again.

Well, now, Max, before we get into the weeds of this one, I have to ask, do you know who the Atalanta manager is?

Ah,

so it was

Gasparini

for about 20 years.

Okay.

I can give you a clue.

Yeah.

Their manager is the man who I'm pretty sure you can't remember, who took over from Russell Martin at Southampton last season.

Well, Ivan Urich.

Yes.

Well done.

Thanks.

I enjoyed the quiz.

I'm happy with what I've won.

I'm cutting.

I really thought you'd have forgotten Ivan Urich.

He's done well to get that geek, hasn't he?

Anyway, as I said, Barry.

I mean, he's not, he didn't do much to stem the PSG tide, did he, Ivan?

No, I'll be honest.

Before this game, i thought angel atalanta might win psg they're starting to pay the price of having a one week off season uh i think they've lost a couple of players due dembele baraldo out injured i think due and dembele are muscle injuries maybe they'd have got muscle injuries anyway i don't know but i i gave atalanta a squeak of winning this and how wrong i was because it would be charitable to say they were incredibly lucky to win or to only lose 4-0.

As you say, PSG cut through them at will.

Nuno Mendez missed a sitter.

Korneski, the Atalanta goalkeeper, made some superb saves,

but it was just a routine evisceration on Atalanta by PSG.

Hugely impressive performance.

Kravitzlia's goal, Johnny, was totally delightful, wasn't it?

I watched several times, actually.

I watched a compilation of Kravitz Scalia's performance.

Like

someone had made

a Kravitzcalia compilation from last night set to classical music.

And

yeah, I watched that.

I watched that several times.

We talked about Elise earlier in the last part.

Players like Elise and Lamine and Kravitz Scalia are the players who are currently setting the standard for wing play in Europe.

I think, you know, there is a lot of prem-faced.

We talk about Palmer, we talk about Saka Bowdoin as well, who seems to have totally dropped off.

They are not currently operating on a level anywhere near, I think, these players.

That is, you know, and Carrot Scalia, incredible, incredible feat, incredible touch, incredible vision, pace.

I'm not just doing the Alan Shearer thing where you name attributes,

influence, set pieces,

just reading off, reading off the football manager list, Anticipation.

Injury proneness.

Expected to move abroad at the end of the season.

Yes, WNT wanted.

So, yeah, I think he is good, isn't he?

He's excellent.

Louis Enrique in a sling because he recently underwent surgery on a collarbone injury

after falling off his bike.

So, yeah, wish him well.

In to one, 2-0

in Amsterdam against Ajax.

Two corners, two headers, two goals.

A very League One highlights package from this one, Archie.

It was.

Hakan Chalanolu is really good at taking set pieces, as it turns out, again.

And yeah, this was, I think, an important win for Inter in the context of their season after the way they lost against Juventus at the weekend in what was such a thrilling ride.

And also, I think that

going into that Champions League final last season, Inter's reputation had grown again so much, and such was the way that they lost to PSG.

I think that it was less a defeat, it was more a humiliation.

And I think that there is some rebuilding work to be done here for them.

I don't know if I'd place Ajax as not an easy place to go, because Ajax are not the team that they were a few seasons ago, but still, this is, I think, a very healthy result.

And look, considering that interivals i had a change of coach in the summer um that they do i think that the championship final showed that they do need to undergo uh some changes and some youthfulness needs to be brought in that i think um yeah is coming but yeah a good start there was some good var in this game um

where uh was it Turan was pulling someone's shirt and then they pulled him down and he got a penalty and Michael Oliva changed his decision.

So we should occasionally say it's sometimes good.

Great comeback for Bodo Glimpt in Prague.

They were 2-0 down with 12 minutes left and equalized in the 90th minute.

It was some strike that, Johnny, wasn't it?

From someone called...

What's his Sondra Brunstadt Fett?

Which does

look a little bit like the anagram that you get, the anagram round of a pub quiz, where you have to anagram it into a Sondra Brunstadt Fett.

Hang on, is that that?

Is that Fenchurch Street on what you watch?

No, it's but we talk about Zidane's Leverkusen in the 2002 final at

Hampton Park.

And

this was basically

better.

It was better than that.

It's better than that.

Wow.

It's better than that.

It's the 90th minute of the game to equalize when you've been 2-0 down.

And I'm sorry.

He's got the Champions League final, is it?

I know, but also, he's not Zidane.

Like, it's not, it's like, I think it's cheating.

Not cheating.

I think Zidan should get a lot, get minus points for having Zidane's talent.

I think that's a little bit

unfair on everyone else.

Do you expand that that basically there should be like a handicap system in football so that you know your coverage shaliers have to be sort of weighed down?

In certain categories, right, when you're judging how spectacular or how

impressive a goal is, I think the fact that you are not Zidane but doing a Zidane-like goal and you're Sondra Brunstadt Fet or Fenchurch Street,

then

I think we have to award bonus points for that.

This touches on something that has actually been

beating in my heart for a while.

I'm really glad you've brought this up, Johnny, because it still irks me to this day that when Paitim Kasami scored the goal of the century for Fulham away at Crystal Palace, he didn't win goal of the month because Jack Wilshire and Arsenal did something which was quite nice.

Like, no.

No, Paitem Kasami's goal will never happen again.

I remember that goal, yeah.

Is that the ball over the top coming from his right and And he chests it and then yes, exactly.

Oh, Arsenal scored quite a sexy team goal.

No, no, no, no.

It was a good goal.

It was a

as you can see, I've got as you say, that also counts as your

also counts as your fuller minute.

I'm afraid, actually.

Um, Olympiakos nil, pathos nil.

Um, I didn't catch this, Barry.

Did you catch it?

Uh, my notes for this game are

in their entirety.

Olympiakos should have won.

Bruno sent off for second yellow.

Paphos bloke.

I think he's a Brazilian.

And David Luiz plays for Paphos.

I did not know that.

And he got injured.

I like when you don't know the position.

You just say, Paphos, Bloke.

That is, you know, I would go with player to cover my back more than just Bloke.

But there you go.

Look, they've already beaten three sides on their way to get to the group stage.

It's their first point in Champions League history.

So, well done to Paphos playing for an hour with 10 men in Greece.

Tonight's games include Newcastle, Barca, and Man City, Napoli.

Apologies to these teams for not fitting into the Guardian Football weekly schedule.

But, you know, playing on a Thursday night, I think, Max, they should be apologising to us.

Yes, I agree, actually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I completely.

Well, UEFA, perhaps it's UEFA's fault.

We're not be doing a Friday pod for these.

Could we go to four pods?

Are we like EastEnders?

Is there a danger of oversaturation here?

We uh, I mean, I think that ship is sailed when we're at a three, Johnny, but but I um

we did discuss, uh, we did discuss uh doing a Friday one, it just doesn't quite work with me or Barry's schedule, if we're being honest.

Uh, but yes, producer Joe says a Sunday omnibus where we do all the pods again, word for

word for word.

Uh, why not?

Anyway, we'll talk about those uh on Monday's pod, which we're recording on Sunday night to suit my schedule.

So thanks, everyone.

So it'll be out early for you on Monday or late on Sunday.

Elsewhere, the Carabag defeat for Ben Fica proved too much for Bruno Large.

And they've sacked him and are in talks with Jozo Mourinho to

go into the dugout.

Yes, Johnny.

Have you heard there's some talk in Portugal that Ben Fica

might have a cheeky punt at Ruben Amarin for that job.

And that United, if they, obviously

they don't want to sack him because he's on a huge compensation, but if they waived their compensation, it kind of allows them to get rid of him and it allows Amarim a little bit to save face a little bit.

He can go back to a big club in Portugal.

This is just some of the, you know, a theory that

has been put to me.

And I know it makes a little bit of sense.

Yeah, it sort of feels like

everybody would be happy, right?

Right, exactly.

You know, I mean, Amarim does, obviously, he doesn't want a sacking on his on his cv i as as as much as he's trying to he seems to be trying to get sacked at points with with some of his comments uh but also it you know it allows it allows united to to kind of oh well you know he wanted to go back to portugal you know it's uh

we how could we compete with with the the mighty benfica if if um amarim did if that did happen

I have no idea who Manchester United would even begin to appoint in his place.

I just looked.

Glasnar is the favourite with Southgate second favourite.

Right.

What?

That makes sense, kind of.

Glasnar would make sense.

Glasnar would make sense because they don't want the ball.

And he plays 3-4-2-1.

Surely they want to find some.

Surely these players have proved in the last however many months that they really can't play 3-4-2-1.

So actually, the last thing you want is someone who plays 3-4-2-1.

Or do you think he can do it better than Amarim?

I don't know.

Maybe he's just...

I mean, maybe he is just.

Maybe Amarim should.

Maybe the problem isn't 3-4-2-1.

Maybe the problem is that Amarim isn't doing it very well.

Maybe the problem is not the idea, but the man.

And

once you truly perfect the idea of 3421, like, you know, in order for true Stalinism to emerge, Stalin had to had to get out of the way.

It was only really Khrushchev

who could take Stalin's work and bring it to its full fruition.

Maybe Glasner is that Khrushchev.

Possibly the first time Rubin Amarim has been compared to Stalin in how he's dealt with.

I can't believe we've gone from football manager to Stalin in five minutes.

This is sensational.

This is the Guardian Football Weekly.

Is Amarim's a five-year plan, or was he expected to

do it a bit quicker?

That's a good point.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

Part three will begin with Nottingham Forest and Ant Postacoglu snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Swansea.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

I saw in the Caribbean Cup last night, one game.

Nothing for Ross with 2-0 up, ended up losing 3-2 to Swansea, two goals in injury time.

I mean, Barry, it is worth the third, the injury time winner is sort of doubly spectacular, isn't it?

Yeah, I've only seen the goals from this game, but

Swansea Bloke cracked one off the post.

Gal Bray's good.

Sorry, who scored it?

Cameron Burgess.

Swansea Bloke, Cameron Burgess.

So Swansea Bloke cracks one off the post.

Cameron Burgess had more or less turned away, waiting for either the final whistle or playthrough.

And then he, it's almost as if

he heard the crack off the post and went, oh, hold on, and turned back and then just rifled home the winner.

Brilliant results.

It's such a pure strike.

It's such an amazing kick of a football, isn't it?

It's like

casually done as well.

You talk about

technique, but it literally just, oh, hold on.

Oh, boom.

And what a way to win a game.

Yeah.

I mean, it's so good for Swansea.

Poor old Ange.

There's something about the way that Josh Tymon

has seen the ball hit.

the angle of post and bar there.

And you see him in one of the replays with his head, with his hands on his head.

And even when Burgess has struck the ball, his hands are still on his head.

The ball needs to hit the net to end his disbelief of what this

has just happened.

I cannot think.

When have there been two

finer, clearer strikes of a ball in succession like that?

And I'm sure that that was also the thought passing through Ange Postakoglu's head somewhere in the recesses of it, because the other part of him looked to be saying,

What did I agree to do again?

Why am I here?

Which I think is, to be honest, a valid question when

this is not the job you take after what he'd just done at Spurs.

You don't think so?

This is no, no, you don't take over from the best coach Nottingham Forest have had in their recent history since Benny Davis, since we established that was Edward a while back.

The expectations that you're working with when you've just seen extraordinary things achieved with a team

which would have done very well even if Nuno had continued to ascend the heights that they had done.

I think that, yeah, this spoke more of a, it spoke more of inside Ange going, I'm going to shut a few people up here.

I'm going to prove them wrong, rather than taking the right job for him.

I think it matters that

I think his kids are at school in London, and so he didn't want to, he didn't want to relocate, he didn't want to move further afield.

And when this job came up,

I think that's one of the reasons.

That's interesting.

And we quite often forget, you know, real life things that are happening to humans or, you know, Nottingham Forest Bloke in this situation.

I mean, maybe, you know, sometimes you can be unlucky, right?

Obviously.

Every time someone hits the post with a great strike and it comes back for a rebound, that rebound is ballooned into Rosetta.

That is like the lore of football.

That's where it goes.

And then it's 2-2 and it's a penalty shootout.

Look, they had made lots and lots of changes.

We might as well start our Premier League preview with them then.

they they go to burnley uh on saturday i mean i don't know where johnny on the sort of must-win scale for ange this is yeah i well i think he's uh

that that that defeat last night will have raised a bit of the pressure on him i think slightly unfairly because you know the guy's been in charge for two games and one of them was against arsenal uh who are probably the best team in the country at the moment and uh one of them was with a a much changed team and and as we as we talked about about, and I think they showed

the elements.

Was it their second goal, I think?

That was proper back-to-front.

When he talked about the, you know, it'll be Wednesday.

You know, it won't be this huge project.

You'll see our style on Wednesday.

That's kind of what he meant.

Burnley, obviously, a much different kind of a much different...

kind of prospect just because of the way that we know that they will defend the way that we they we know that they will approach the game, and the fact that Forrest will have to

make the running.

They will be under pressure to break them down.

And Burnley will quite happily, as Forrest did actually, to a lot of teams last season, just say, look, look, we'll break you down and we've got players who can counter us.

So a different kind of test.

And I think that it'll be a good measure of where their development's at.

Two really big games this weekend.

The early game on Saturday is the Merseyside Derby, Barry.

So in what minute did Liverpool score their winner, do you think?

Are you about to say I think Everton will win?

Is that what I wonder?

No, I don't.

I don't think Everton will win, but I don't think I'd be massively shocked if they...

No, I would.

I would be surprised if they did.

Everton are a bit odd.

They've been getting good results without, I think, playing particularly well.

Their first home game at Hill Dickinson, I thought Brighton were much the better team and Everton still won that game.

What was it, the 3-2 against Wolves, I thought they were a little bit lucky.

I suppose my judgment is clouded and influenced by the fact that I predicted they'd have a very bad season and now it's looking like they won't.

Jack Grealish has been undeniably excellent for them.

I'd imagine he'll cause Liverpool some problems.

But

it's hard to see past the Liverpool win, really, isn't it?

Sorry.

I don't know what else.

Two men just walked in.

Is your house...

Are they removal men, Johnny?

Will you be removed from your from the house uh in one second

no that they're they're decorators they've just gone into that room to to to to get there to get because the way your zoom is set up and this may not work for listeners it does look like a progressive number of people are just walking out of a tiny wardrobe behind like

like a like a magic trick clown car mary poppins wardrobe

how many people are in that wardrobe

but that that's actually the door right behind that behind that.

But it does look like, because of the

wardrobe in front of it, because of the clothes rack, it does look like they are emerging from the wardrobe.

If we keep going, we'll see a lion and a witch come out.

Mr.

Tumness will finish the podcast.

This is great.

Barry's professionalism there was excellent.

Unbelievable.

And I probably do what many listeners do.

I was listening to his voice, which is soothing, but I didn't hear any of the words.

Well,

nothing of much profundity, I can assure you there.

Me just very sitting on the fence on Liverpool Everton.

I check this out.

David Moyes has gone to Anfield 23 times and never won.

And

just, I wonder whether Jack Grealish could be the figure to turn that tide.

I like the idea of him in a Merseyside derby, him embracing that atmosphere.

But the thing that stood out for me from an Everton point of view, sadly, is that the only time Everton have won there since 1999 was when no one was there to see it during COVID.

And there were no spectators in for that one.

And so, yeah,

I feel a bit for Everton and also the way Liverpool are shaping up.

It doesn't feel like...

I think Everton will get something.

I think the turnaround from Wednesday night to Saturday lunchtime, I know that they're both at Anfield, but physically, mentally, I think that that's a big ask for Liverpool.

I think there's a good chance that Everton can hit them.

And actually, interestingly, on that sort of tiredness thing that we sort of tend to ignore once the game kicks off, Arsenal plays City and Arsenal, they're already home from like a comfortable, if tough game in Bilbao.

Man City have got to play Napoli on Thursday night.

And so

how much, Johnny, does that give Arsenal a bit of an edge against City?

No, totally, because, you know, we've seen how we've also also seen how physical these games have been in recent years.

You know,

we've seen sendings off, we've seen crunchy tackles and

incredibly intense pressing.

You know, I mean, certainly, if you think about some of the Arteta Guardiola duels from the last three or four seasons, they have been up there with some of the highest quality, not maybe not the most exciting in terms of goal mouth action, but in terms of two teams that have been set up to almost kind of exhaust the opposition all over the pitch,

That is the standard that they have set.

So I do think it matters.

Obviously, City are playing at home, but Thursday night, I mean, it's different with the Europa League, I think, because the Europa League, I mean, we all know the Europa League, it's not real football, but a Champions League game on a Thursday night against Napoli and then going to Arsenal on Sunday.

Yeah,

I certainly think given that the

the kind of the margins at this level of the game, the physical margins, I think that extra couple of days is going to, it's a real help to Arteta.

Manchester United, Chelsea, Barry, your thoughts?

I think Chelsea will win.

Although, weirdly, looking at this weekend's fixtures,

I think you could make a case for the fact that there could be 10 draws out of 10 matches.

I was trying to do my last man standing earlier this week.

I've ended up going for wolves against Leeds.

But

I could make a case for every single game this weekend being a draw, but watching Manchester United in their current state, and it is a state,

I couldn't make a case for them beating anyone, really.

The only case I'd make would be that they've got a full week's training.

Although you wonder at this point,

as Barry's facial expression says,

does that help?

Oh, no, it's even worse.

When he's reading, you know, Das Capital to

Patrick Dorgu or whatever.

This isn't helping much.

Brighton Spurs, Johnny, what's your take on the all-new Thomas Frank Tottenham?

It's been impressive.

I don't think it's been quite as impressive as people make out.

I think they've been a little bit lucky.

I mean,

if you look at their,

sorry, XG, you know, In and Out, I think they have been...

They have been outperforming it slightly.

And we saw during the, you know, you discussed this, we would have discussed this on yesterday's pod, but certainly during the second half of the Villa Real game, we saw

a little bit of caution and negativity creep in, which I think is never far from the surface with Spurs.

But, you know, I think Brighton away, tough place to go, tough place to go.

It's a place where Spurs have actually been humiliated quite a bit in recent times.

You know,

they went 2-0 up.

Was it last season?

Lost 3-2.

I think they lost really quite heavily, like 3-0 a couple of seasons ago.

It's a place that they found really tough because Brighton is a tough system to break down and

they bring angles at you, which unless you are pretty secure and you know what you're doing defensively,

they can catch you out very easily.

So again, it's a big test of how well Frank has

set up that defence and how well he's drilled them.

Huge few days for Puller Marchi.

Brentford at home at the weekend and then Cambridge at home on Tuesday and the Carabao.

We're taking 5,000 there.

You will never have seen it.

It'll be like Galatasaray away for your lot when you see the Cambridge Ultras.

Is there a posher football match?

Someone said, Is there a posh football match ever?

Fair point.

I thought of you when Cambridge nearly did what Manchester United couldn't in winning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We were robbed.

But we're denied there, right?

So, look, if Kevin's not playing, then you might have a chance.

Yeah, he looked good, didn't he?

But Kevin looks really good.

I Twinkle-toed.

He is doing things that I can't remember many wingers at Fulham doing as sensationally.

I think he may even eclipse Luis Bohemorte in

terms of the dribbling that I remember.

And albeit that's a very long time ago, and I don't think Luis Bohemorte was capable of doing the number of step overs that Kevin is capable of doing.

So there's that.

Brian Ruiz.

Are you a Brian Ruiz man?

Oh, yeah.

Like, man's got an ice cream scoop, but he's not got a dribble.

He's got an ability to look elegant.

And honestly,

it felt like he was kept at the club against his will.

I've never seen anybody look more pissed at having scored a 90th minute winner for us.

Didn't you have Berbatov and Ruiz at the same time?

Berbatov, Ruiz, Darren Bent and Adele Tarapt as a front four.

That started for Fulham at some point, which on paper, you're like, oh, those are four good players.

In separate teams, if you split them across four different teams.

You can read a Jonathan Wilson piece going, Ruiz and Berbatoff aren't going to press, are they?

You know,

that's your issue.

Exactly that.

Brentford, Fulham-Brentford, as I will always remind you, is a big deal to both sets of fans involved here.

There is hatred

of each other.

Brentford had the upper hand for a while.

I would say that we have the upper hand right now.

Harry Wilson is the buzzword from Fulham fans' point of view and singing about him after the miraculous turnaround that we did last season in injury time to beat Brentford.

And then Harry Wilson doing

a similar job away at Brentford last season.

Yeah, it should be a spicy Saturday night.

All right.

West Ham Palace, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Wolves leads as well.

Cover them all on

the weekend's pod, Monday's pod on Sunday.

uh Spencer says hi Max and Barry my daughter just got a call up for the women's team and is so nervous this is the United States soccer federation we listen to your pod during all the painstaking drives to practice and games it would make her world for a shout out on the pod if it makes sense either way thank you for providing a great soundtrack to us and from all those relentless but beautiful car rides to practice and games without you we'd be listening to Taylor Swift in the car which arguably would get you up for the game more than our Witterings Keely Shulton

US Soccer Federation, Talent ID Center selected.

It says, so look, Keely, you are now the best footballer that listens to this podcast.

Harrogate goalkeeper may take issue with you.

Our apologies.

Our apologies.

We're now all Keely Shelton fans.

Good luck.

So what age group is Keely being called up to?

I don't have that information.

I don't know.

Sir Spencer's your textbook soccer dad.

Yeah.

He's driving Keely to practice in his four by four.

Up I-35 to, you know, my, uh, you know, to Philadelphia for the next game.

Good luck, Keely.

Ryan says, hi, Max Barry and the gang.

Big fan of the pod.

Proud to say I started listening as soon as the legend of the soccer M Glory years.

Max Rushdon started presenting in 2017.

Like everyone.

I've hardly missed an episode since.

Honestly, I enjoy it most when the panel go off on random tangents.

Seb Hutchinson's deep dive into his entire goalkeeping career, a recent highlight.

I'm astonished astonished that that all stayed in.

This is the first I've learned of that.

I'm getting married on the 20th of September.

And instead of asking Barry for his customary well wishes or ill will, I thought I'd ask for his advice.

I'm a big Liverpool fan.

When the fixtures came out a few months ago, I realised my vows will be happening at the exact same time as the Merseyside Derby.

To make things worse or better, one of my best mates, Dan, also a listener and Liverpool fan, is the celebrant leading the ceremony.

The problem, my fiancé Fiona, isn't a football fan.

I'm pretty sure she won't appreciate me or Dan sneaking a look at live score while I'm meant to be saying, I do.

Barry, any words of wisdom on how to handle this massive dilemma?

Keep up the great work, Ryan.

Well, it's not so much a dilemma, it's just a rookie error.

Textbook case of someone arranging their wedding and not checking the sporting calendar first.

I've attended a couple.

One was a good friend of mine from Burr got married on the same day that Ireland had a Rugby World Cup quarterfinal against Argentina.

A lot of rugby rugby fans in the congregation.

So what ended up happening was things were shifted around a little bit.

And at one point, the wedding just more or less stopped for two hours so everyone could watch the rugby match and a big screen.

More recently,

the playoff final, championship playoff final this season, one of my mates, Jonathan, big Sunderland fan, season ticket holder, not Jonathan Wilson, a different Jonathan.

He couldn't go to that because his brother was getting married on playoff final day.

And when his brother told him what day the wedding was on, he immediately went, that's the playoff final.

Guarantee Sunderland will be in it.

And they were.

So it's a rookie era, Ryan.

You just got to suck it up and

you'll find out what the score was after you have exchanged vows.

Sure.

If Fiona turns up.

Yeah, and also, like, the vows are quite short, aren't they?

So

if you've got an early...

The trouble with with early, the early Saturday weddings is there's no atmosphere.

Is it people aren't as up for the vows at 12.30 or 3 o'clock, especially like an evening vows?

You know, vows under the lights, they are really the best, they're the best ones, aren't they?

But, you know, if you get your vows done, it's not going to take 45 minutes.

Well, if it's a Catholic mass wedding.

Oh, go on forever.

Yeah.

I was at a Catholic wedding in Galway, and halfway through, we realised that the canon was called Peter Rabbit.

And it just was just too much for me that this guy was called Peter Rabbit.

I don't think he was a priest, Max, isn't canon

a Protestant thing or a

well I don't know.

It said at the bottom cannon Peter Rabbit, but maybe it was priest.

My apologies.

Oh no, actually

it's a step up from Monsignor, I think.

So I think it's priest, Monsignor, anyway.

Yeah, sorry.

The buffet was just carrot.

Oh, yes.

He came out of a hutch.

You're right, Johnny.

And ate a carrot and then delivered this.

Anyway, my love to

that couple who were married and to Ryan and Fiona, of course.

And just find out, you know, just watch the second half.

That'll be during the photos.

What you do is you say, now it's wife and family.

And then do 45 minutes of photos.

And then you come back in for your photos.

Anyway, that'll do it for today, won't it?

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Barry.

Thank you.

Thank you, Archie.

Thanks, Max.

Thank you, Johnny.

Thank you.

Thank you to all the men in your wardrobe as well.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

This is The Guardian.

Tremble is the technology company that connects your physical and digital world so industries like transportation and geospatial can get hard work done faster than ever.

Every day brings new challenges, decisions, adjustments, real-time moments that matter.

With Tremble on your team, you're in command of purpose-built tech ecosystems and connected solutions that keep work flowing end to end.

Turn data points into decision points, deadlines into finish lines, and possibilities into profits.

Check out what Tremble can do for you at Tremble.com.

Because with Tremble, you can act smarter, move faster, and lead with confidence.

Tremble, confidence at every turn.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day, Scratchers, from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly.

Must be 18 years or older to purchase, purchase, play, or claim.