Manchester City on the march as Arsenal drop points at Sunderland – Football Weekly

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Speaker 4 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. There is league.
Manchester City moved to within four points of Arsenal at the top after a brilliant 3-0 win over Liverpool.

Speaker 4 Jeremy Doku, again outstanding, a thousand games for Pep will do the full countdown. Arsenal concede late at Sunderland.

Speaker 4 Dan Ballard with an actual Roy of the Rovers performance, a goal, an assist, and a stunning block late on. What a noise at the Stadium of Light.

Speaker 4 Spurs 2, Manchester United 2, an odd game with two odd teams. Personally, I'd have marked as Matthias de Licked in the 96th minute.

Speaker 4 We'll ask whether Rob Edwards has checked the league table before taking the Wolves' job.

Speaker 4 Celebrate Emmy Wendir being back on the pitch and playing well, and ask whether Newcastle fans should worry about their terrible away form.

Speaker 4 Towards the bottom, there's a big win for Forrest, a big win for West Ham, and a big win for Everton. And Palace and Brighton happen.

Speaker 4 All that a snowy overhead kick in Canada and more pathetic begging for you to vote for us in the FSA awards. All that plus your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 4 On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome. Hello Max.
Hello Lucy Ward.

Speaker 1 Hi Max.

Speaker 4 And welcome Will Unwyn.

Speaker 1 Hi Max.

Speaker 4 For the tape, if you knew how long it took us to record just the welcomes, this podcast took 25 hours to record. But for you, it'll be perfectly edited down because we have an amazing team behind us.

Speaker 4 Let's begin at the Etihad, Manchester City 3, Liverpool 0. There is a title race, and I feel Barry, like I only say the word ominous in footballing terms with Manchester City, but they look ominous.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can kind of hear the Jaws cello team music, can't you? I'm sure Arsenal can at least.

Speaker 1 In the build-up to this game, there was a lot of talk about it being Pep's 1000th game as a coach and with his various different teams.

Speaker 1 And he said that Liverpool would be the ideal opponents for such an occasion and now we know why I guess because Manchester City swatted them aside with I would say a minimum of fuss.

Speaker 1 Liverpool did not play well. Erling Harland got his goal.

Speaker 1 Jeremy Doku was brilliant again, certainly not for the first or second or even third time this season, but I can't think of a better performance he put in in his city shirt.

Speaker 1 Any talk that Liverpool had hit their stride and refound their mojo, I think Arna Slot will have a lot to think about over the international break, which I guess will be dominated by talk of Liverpool being back in crisis because people sort of run out of things to talk about during the international break, particularly when there's not much at stake for England.

Speaker 1 So it's very difficult to see Liverpool mounting a title challenge for now. They've already from here because they've already lost five games.

Speaker 1 teams that win the title tend these days tend not to lose more than five six maximum so they've lost five already out of 11 and manchester city yes they are looking ominous

Speaker 4 lucy docker is extraordinary isn't he for someone who because it must be this sounds this might sound ridiculous but like he moves his feet like a cartoon you know like sort of um roadrunner and to move your feet that quickly but to stay in control of the ball is extraordinary yeah i can remember first seeing him and thinking, wow, I haven't seen somebody dribble like that for a long time.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 because he's so strong, it's very difficult to get him off the ball. But now what he's done is his final ball is better because he dribbled.

Speaker 5 We have a lot of professional footballers over the years who dribble well. And then when they get to the end of it, it's like, you know, what's next? But I think he's improving that.

Speaker 5 And obviously, Pep wouldn't have him playing if he didn't do that. But I just think at the moment, he's unplayable.

Speaker 5 I don't think there's anybody else that dribbles the same as him in world football at the moment, which I mean, even when he's doubled up on, he just sort of batters them out of the way.

Speaker 4 And also, like, he, from a standing start wheel, he can just, he's sort of like 0 to 100 in about half a second.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You ask any footballer what they're afraid of, it's speed.

Speaker 1 And when you're a fullback, having to go backwards against someone that can, you know, flicker a switch, so you go as quickly as he can, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 I mean, we say, you see him from the start, I think, you know, when he came,

Speaker 1 one of his early games against Bournemouth, he got four assists and a goal. He thought, incredible, you know, this is what you can do, but you're never going to do that consistently.

Speaker 1 And it's taken him a long time to get up to that level on a regular basis. And I think he's always, obviously, he's got all these things in the locker.

Speaker 1 And it's you play more, you know more how to use them and things like that. But also the confidence, when you're fully confident, you know what you're doing next.

Speaker 1 And say, I think in previous times, Haaland probably didn't know what was coming afterwards. And I think Doku probably didn't know what was coming afterwards.

Speaker 1 But now, you know, he's cutting inside, he's winning penalties, scoring goals. Yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 And I think the exciting player that you want to see, that front, well, not front three, but the three behind Haaland of Doku, Cherky, and Foden, you're not going to get more excited than that, I think, in the Premier League or World Football at the moment.

Speaker 1 when they're on top of things. And in addition to that, they could all play in any of those roles and they keep rotating to

Speaker 1 confuse defenders even more so. So yeah,

Speaker 1 it's exciting to see Doku at his very best.

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 if you think that Connor Bradley did pretty well against Vinicius Jr., you had no chance against Doku.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you would think, oh, I've seen him off this week. The rest of my week should be fine.
And then you check your diary and it says Jeremy Doku on Sunday.

Speaker 1 I think it would be very unfair to lay much, if any, blame on Connor Bradley's dory yesterday. I thought he did as well as could be expected, considering...

Speaker 1 the amount of help he did not get from, well, he got no help from Mo Sala. i wonder does mo sala is he told not to help out or does he just not help out i don't know and

Speaker 1 well on the one or two occasions that uh ibrahima kenate tried to help him out he was more of a hindrance than a help and and it led to city's first goal i think so yeah yeah i i wouldn't be scapecoating bradley for this one and yeah kanate was a bit like one of the one of those guys in home alone you know just like treading on roller skates and landing on eggs.

Speaker 4 And actually, Nico O'Reilly, you know, at the same time, Lucy, Nico O'Reilly is really helping Doku and had another really good game.

Speaker 5 Yeah, he is, and obviously in the England squad

Speaker 5 as well. And I think what's interesting is that what Barry said, Salary isn't supposed to come back and help.
Who is supposed to help is obviously Sabozlai and Canate.

Speaker 5 And Kanate had one of his, not one of his better games. I think even he started off quite slowly.

Speaker 5 And I think as soon as Liverpool fans see Kanate starting off slowly they think oh no this is not good so initially for the for the penalty and then for the for Haaland's goal the header he was squared off so he didn't have any any idea really other than Haaland breathing down his neck whereabouts he was and you know what his movement was and his jumping so yeah that that didn't help I did think Liverpool were a little bit unlucky about this allowed goal I think that yeah two big chances that they missed but they're still below par they what city did is they sat in the middle of the pitch they didn't go and try and sort of press high, or they didn't, they just, and Liverpool, because they've not got the likes of Alexander Arnold that can sort of ping a pass

Speaker 5 to negate that in the middle of the pitch, they really struggle to get through. And I think that's that's going to be a problem for Liverpool and has been this season.

Speaker 5 But obviously, then the confidence is lower as well. I think there's lots of stuff going on with Liverpool that sort of works itself out to be having a massive effect, but all little bits.

Speaker 4 I mean, Slot after the game, Will said that even if that goal had been allowed, City would probably have still won. So perhaps we shouldn't spend too much time on it.

Speaker 4 But I wonder if the law should be,

Speaker 4 and maybe this makes it too subjective, would the keeper have got it? Because Donner Rummer wouldn't have got it, whether Robertson was there or not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Donarubber wouldn't have saved it, but Robertson was clearly in an offside position. I think the goal should have been given on balance.

Speaker 1 What I would say is that the decision was made on field, and I don't think it's a complete rick of a decision.

Speaker 1 If we can sort of complain about VAR over officiating and things like that, you know, you say on balance, it should be a goal.

Speaker 1 But the fact that it wasn't given, I don't think it's an absolute nightmare. I'd be upset if it happened to my team, obviously.
But I don't think it's the be-all and end-all of the result, obviously.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I would argue that it's not a major mistake as sort of discussed in certain circles.

Speaker 4 So the people complaining about it are saying we do want them to re-referee the game is what they're saying. What we really want is VAR to re-referee it.

Speaker 4 From a Liverpool perspective, Barry, and I know we've talked about, you know, these new signings and players needing time.

Speaker 4 It does feel like it is an issue if you break the transfer record twice in one summer. And for various reasons, neither of those players make any meaningful impact.

Speaker 4 What are we now the 10th of November?

Speaker 1 Certainly does in the case of Alexander Isaac, who is...

Speaker 1 He was on the bench yesterday, didn't come on. He has done nothing of note in the Liverpool shirt.
And he cost £130 million.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I'm not sure why that's not more of a talking point, if I'm honest, because I don't recall anyone mentioning it yesterday in the TV coverage. Why isn't he playing? Why didn't he come on?

Speaker 5 Something that's not mentioned is how much money they recouped. They talk about how much money Liverpool spent.
They did recoup over 200 million. I get Barry's point about Isak.

Speaker 5 He obviously shows that those players who don't have a preseason, and he obviously didn't do that much in preseason. And now I think Slot is whether he's worried about him getting injured again.

Speaker 5 He obviously has got injury, whereas if you look at his injury record,

Speaker 5 he has got something that's obviously continuous in the background that he doesn't want to sort of play him. Because why would you not play him against

Speaker 5 Manchester City yesterday?

Speaker 5 So that's going to be an issue for Liverpool, having two players that they've played a lot of money for, plus Wertz, who has not hit the ground running and he's a very, very good player, but he's not showing it at all.

Speaker 5 It's a problem.

Speaker 4 I mean, it's nothing to say Louis Diaz will be having a brilliant season for Liverpool, but the fact he's having a brilliant season for Bayern affects it when you watch it and you just see how

Speaker 4 much they miss him. So, a thousand games for Pep, Will.
He's won 716 of them, a win rate of almost 72%.

Speaker 4 He's lifted 40 major trophies. That's one every 25 games, pretty much.
He's lost just 128 times. You know, there are obviously caveats.
He's always managed good teams.

Speaker 4 there are caveats around manchester city about their ownership really pertinently now but also with the charges but still

Speaker 1 that's quite a good that's quite a good win percentage if tim shirwood had that he would be yelling about it wouldn't he yeah but how would he get on a hat cringe and stanley that's the question isn't it obviously you look at guardiola over that time of boss owner of buyer and you know actually this city team is quite pertinent in all this because

Speaker 1 Where other coaches have probably not been able to evolve as much, when Guadola sees a problem, he changes it, he adapts, he looks forward to it.

Speaker 1 He sort of, you know, last season was written off very early on. And now you look at the team that the players were brought in.

Speaker 1 Nico Gonzalez, when he joined the January till the end of the season, was, I think, mediocre at best. But he is improving.

Speaker 1 Guardiola identified him maybe because he was available, but an intelligent guy that could learn. the Guardiola way, whereas maybe other defensive midfielders he wasn't confident in.

Speaker 1 The fullbacks last season were mildly farcical. I mean, didn't exist for a lot of the time.
But now Nunes,

Speaker 1 after a terrible, again, probably year trying to learn how to play right back, looks really good. He's the cross for the opener on Sunday.

Speaker 1 And Nico O'Reilly, who came through the academy as a central midfielder and tells people he's a number 10, is

Speaker 1 now City's best left back. I know who can't, you know, not even considered to challenge him for arguably one of the biggest games of the season against Liverpool.
And so this is it.

Speaker 1 He keeps evolving, keeps changing from bringing in, you know, going from false nines to to Haaland, you know, having Ibrahimovich at Barcelona, things like that.

Speaker 1 It always changes, and he knows how to use these players. And he sort of stays a step ahead, which is very difficult.

Speaker 1 A lot of the managers are reactionary, but he's trying to get, you know, ahead of people. Of course, you know, a lot of money to spend, spending 50-odd million quid on Nico Conzale.

Speaker 1 No one else is doing that. I appreciate.
But yeah, an incredible.

Speaker 1 energy, incredible sort of longevity of it all is really impressive. And obviously he deserves great credit for that.

Speaker 1 And, you know, to mark it with such a dominant win is probably, as you say, ominous for everyone else that you know, what you can keep doing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, you did joke about it at the start. I would like to see him have a season at Accrington and see what he could do.

Speaker 4 But anyway, to the Stadium of Light, Sunderland 2, Arsenal 2, Barry, you must have enjoyed this.

Speaker 1 I did. It was a really good game and a brilliant result for Sunderland, obviously.
Further enhanced then by Newcastle's defeat at Brentford on Sunday.

Speaker 1 I suppose when I think Eddie Howe had his fourth anniversary last week in charge of Newcastle and when the Saudi public investment fund took over at Newcastle and those guys were dancing outside St.

Speaker 1 James's Park in there with the tea towels on their head, Sunderland were in League One.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't imagine they envisaged that in four years time Sunderland would be in fourth place in the Premier League. They'd be two points above the relegation zone.
Life comes at you fast, I guess.

Speaker 1 This was a brilliant game, I thought. A setback for Arsenal.
People were wondering, is it a good result for Arsenal? Is it a good point? Is it a bad result?

Speaker 1 But they were going to concede a goal eventually. A brilliant goal by Dan Ballard to open the scoring for Sunderland, put the Black Cats among the pigeons.

Speaker 1 And it was a very...

Speaker 1 Sunderland are a very physical team. They're a very good team.

Speaker 1 I don't think they're there where they are by fluke. They've beaten some good sides.

Speaker 1 This was an excellent draw for them even though they left it late but they do have a habit of scoring late goals and it was one such which which earned them a point here that i think they thoroughly deserved i i agree with you lucia what impressed me actually when it went to 2-1 and it's a brilliant goal from trossard is i think everybody thought well look at arsenal they've done it again the resilience is there but some of them were really patient they didn't just lobby in the box.

Speaker 4 They they played and they tried to create the right space and the you know the right time to get the ball in. I was just really impressed with that.

Speaker 5 Yeah, just Labri's

Speaker 5 got them all at it. I think Arsenal will rue the opportunities to go 3-1-up at that point when there was a period of time when Sunderland were really on the ropes but stayed in the game.

Speaker 5 I think that sort of lack of creative options coming off the bench because they had the injuries.

Speaker 5 You know, when Arteta turns around and looks at his bench and sees younger players, even though they're absolutely excellent younger players, that's probably not the time to throw a 15-year-old on when Sunderland were playing, and they sort of roughed them up a little bit.

Speaker 5 They also sat back a little when they could have gone for it, but it swung away from them. Sunderland, brilliant, pressing man-to-man, high-tempo, they're well-organised.

Speaker 5 And what they do tactically is brilliant. Labri, he, you can't always tell how they're going to play with it.
When

Speaker 5 the opposition have got the ball, sometimes they go high, sometimes they sit, sometimes

Speaker 5 they go quite close to their own goal and defend the edge of the box. So it's difficult

Speaker 5 to play against them. You've got Siddiqui and Jaka, central midfield, Isidore, Brobby.
I watched at Ajax, so they've got

Speaker 5 a threat when you put the ball into the box. They're all tenacious, and they understand what's expected of them.

Speaker 5 Obviously, they're overperforming, but we've seen teams come into the Premier League and do what Sunderland have done and keep going at it.

Speaker 5 I think Sheffield United did it, just something a little bit different. And he certainly has the tactical now to keep them.
And obviously, it's all about the players, the players that are good enough.

Speaker 4 I mean, it is worth pointing out. You're right.
The Arsenal are missing. Martinelli, Yokarez, Odegard, Madowake, Habats, Gabriel Jesus.
There's a lot of attacking and creativity that they're missing.

Speaker 1 But still,

Speaker 4 I mean, I thought that finish as well, actually, from Brobby, is worth mentioning, isn't it? I mean, both Sunday goals were brilliant.

Speaker 1 Yeah, physicality, the

Speaker 1 sort of acrobatic nature of it all with the goalkeeper and defender around him. It's incredible.

Speaker 1 I think Arsenal, just the fact that he used his body and got his foot up a little bit, wanted a free kick, but there's no chance of that.

Speaker 1 And it shows that they've invested throughout the squad at Sunderland. So someone like Robbie, that

Speaker 1 maybe he's been sort of tipped for no offense, Sunderland at the start of the season, but bigger things and brought him in and have sort of

Speaker 1 very sensible signing as a striker. Both goals are great.
I mean, so you look at

Speaker 1 the Ballard touch and finish, man for the big moment.

Speaker 1 You look at the block at the end, the playoffs at the end of last season, you know, this is him as well.

Speaker 1 And he's one of the very few that have stayed in the team for the end of last season.

Speaker 1 And to get that amount of investment into a squad and a number of players and to coach it into a sort of cohesive unit is really impressive from LeBris. You know, if you count

Speaker 1 who's carried on through, you know, the goalkeepers changed, the fullbacks, everything.

Speaker 1 And then someone like Robbie that's come in, maybe someone that was expected bigger and better things of in his early career than joining a a team that had been promoted to the Premier League.

Speaker 1 But it shows what you can bring if you have that investment. If, you know, they are paying a lot of money for these people, but the Premier League is the place people want to be.

Speaker 1 And that finish from Robbie, physical, acrobatic, goalkeeper and defender descending on him. It's really, really good.

Speaker 1 Arsenal probably wanted a free kick for it for some reason, which I can't understand. That's what they have.

Speaker 1 They have the ability to be patient, but have that physicality in the moments where it matters and the decisive decisions.

Speaker 1 And yeah, they've done really well considering 11 games in to be a cohesive unit with us overhauled squad and everything.

Speaker 5 When I go around Europe or what doing games like Chelsea last year where it was games like Noah and places, you know, teams like that that I have absolutely no idea about the players until I start to research.

Speaker 5 It seems to be that the best players that I saw last season are now all playing for Sunderland. So in terms of the recruitment and the scouting, very, very good.
I was like, oh, I'm sure I saw it.

Speaker 5 And then I looked back, yeah, yeah, he was at Club rugo wherever where he was so that i think that's an important part it's not about

Speaker 5 it's not about just throwing a load of players together they've obviously looked at it and whoever they've got recruitment wise and i think probably out of all the promoted clubs they've got their recruitment department sorted sunderland because they fit together and they have everything that labri needs for them to to to function properly in the premier league uh highlight the game was devad rayer making that save and then not knowing where the ball was like a kitten playing with a ping pong ball uh and also barry that Declan Rice slip at the end, you must have thought, hang on, we're in it.

Speaker 4 Was it Lefey? I can't remember who was through just for that one moment where you were like, this could be it.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 Declan didn't have a brilliant game here. He was very much at fault for the first goal.
And funnily enough, Gabrielle, you could argue, was at fault for the second.

Speaker 1 And they're sort of Arsenal's two most reliable players. Either team could have won it right at the death.
Yeah, Super Dan Ballard.

Speaker 4 His goal saving block towards the end was it would have been horrific to to lose it after all at that stage oh oh that would have really hurt wouldn't it yeah uh so the arsenal's next three games spurs at home buying at home chelsea away so they will be interesting and before we end part one we are nominated for the best podcast at the fsas we need your vote if you just google fsa awards 2025 you can find the link on our instagram blue sky on my x account etc etc barry why should people vote for us because they didn't last year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because they didn't last year. It was apathy on our part or complacency on our part, apathy on theirs and laziness.
It takes

Speaker 1 less than two minutes and you can vote for Lucy Ward as best pundit while you're in there.

Speaker 1 And there are lots of other Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Sophie Downey is nominated, I think, for Best Writer.
So lots of Guardian folk to vote for.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so Pacha soon as well, and not the 20, our friends, as well. You have until midday on Monday, the 17th of November, vote now.
Vote often. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 Vote on all your different devices. Yes, please do.

Speaker 4 But now, if we don't win, God, it's even worse if you're so crawling and desperate about it. But it's okay.
If we don't win, we just don't mention it afterwards, Lucy. Yeah.
That's fine.

Speaker 4 And that'll do for part one. Part two will begin at the Tottenham Ottspur Stadium.

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Speaker 4 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's go to the Tom Hot Spurs Stadium, Spurs 2, Manchester United 2.
Hames said afterwards, a wild ride that left everyone back where they started.

Speaker 4 I mean, I guess, Lucy, you might be forgiven for thinking this was a good game because of all the goals in the last 10 minutes.

Speaker 4 It wasn't a good game, but they're two really interesting sides because they're quite hard to work out what they're doing a lot of the time.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think they're two sides that are... not quite where the manager wants them to be, but are showing signs.
I mean, Spurs, I know you're a Spurs fan, Max, but I do like Thomas Frank.

Speaker 5 And he's going about Spurs in the way that he thinks is the best way in terms of

Speaker 5 you don't sort the defense out first because you can't separate things in a team, but he's making them less open

Speaker 5 for the majority of the time. And I've done them a couple of times, but what that does is it makes them, if that doesn't quite work and they lose, then he's like,

Speaker 5 what am I watching? Because I'm not watching a performance and I'm not watching a result.

Speaker 5 I don't think that they have recruited as well as they could in attack.

Speaker 5 I think Simons, I've seen a number of times at Leipzig and other clubs, and he's been very good. But you just never know when you just put them into it.

Speaker 5 They have to come into a team that's doing all right. I think.
I think

Speaker 5 that's the thing. But Man United, I think they look set up.
They set up now. They look really well.
They lock on. They get close to teams.
They don't look as open as they did.

Speaker 5 I think Casimiro in the middle is looking better, but they still need legs in that central midfield. They look compact, the defence looks good.

Speaker 5 He always plays Harry Maguire, which tells you a lot in big away games where you need to be quite tough and have a leader there.

Speaker 5 Interesting that he played like a fluid front three, Amarim, full of three technical players who rotated, so very difficult to defend against because obviously they knew that the two centre-backs for Spurs are very, very good.

Speaker 5 And it was quite effective up to a certain point before Sheshko came on. But it's, is it the fourth game in a row that Man United scored late, which tells you a lot about them quite easily.

Speaker 5 Rishalison and the celebration when Rishalison scored was

Speaker 5 it was mad because hasn't that happened? I said this on the radio yesterday, hasn't that happened sometime before where Risharlison did like the chicken dance or something?

Speaker 4 Hanfield in 2023, I think.

Speaker 5 Yeah, same thing. It's like you celebrate, you think, well, I can just go for it here because they're not going to go and score at the other end.

Speaker 5 And then when they're going to score at the other end, it's just like head on hands. But from a Manchester United point of view, it's not really the fragility that you saw last season.

Speaker 5 I'm sure they're not improving as quickly as

Speaker 5 United fans want them to.

Speaker 5 But Spurs were better in the second half, shifted upper gear, a bit more control, positive steps both ways, but really a game that's not right at high level, but was entertaining

Speaker 5 towards the end.

Speaker 4 I mean, it was better than the Europa League final, Barry, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 Only because of the last 10 minutes. But otherwise, I would say no.
I don't think.

Speaker 1 But obviously, a flurry of goals towards the end is going to leave you with the impression that, oh, that must have been that was a good game.

Speaker 1 But I would say, for the first 80 minutes, I was pretty bored watching it. It wasn't very entertaining.

Speaker 1 Lucy, I'm just curious to know,

Speaker 1 as a former player, why does Ruben Amerim insist on replacing one of his centre-backs in every game? It seems odd and something most coaches don't do.

Speaker 5 I don't know whether it's something to do with, because he uses his centre-backs to start, people would say, start the build-up.

Speaker 5 So I don't know whether he changes his centre-back so that he has a different angle or a different way of getting himself forward.

Speaker 5 It must be something to do with when they've got the ball rather than when they haven't got the ball. However, sometimes the negatives outweigh that because what then happens is that

Speaker 5 you're not as set at the back as you would have been throughout the whole of the game. So

Speaker 5 it's risk and reward and it'd be interesting. Has anybody ever asked him? But I'm presuming it's to do with how

Speaker 5 they are coming out of the back.

Speaker 1 Last week I went to interview Lenny Yorrow and he was asked about this very thing and he provided absolutely zero insight on the matter and just said it's the manager's decision. So

Speaker 1 take that

Speaker 1 as you will.

Speaker 4 Where get your Paxman? You should have gone full Paxman and just keep asking Lenny Yorrow. Just batter Lenny Yorrow down into submission.
Answer the question, Lenny.

Speaker 1 Well, it was a very very good interview where on some sort of media, it says that his mother named him after Lenny Kravitz, despite the spelling being different.

Speaker 1 Which he was asked by another journalist within this interview, and he goes, no, that's not true. Which was mildly unfortunate.
But, you know, good research from everyone.

Speaker 4 And also, look, I mean, maybe rewarding for Thomas Frank that the Spurs fans booed all his substitutions and they all went and did something quite useful.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that was brilliant.

Speaker 1 I think it's worth mentioning about Thomas Frank in that in his previous managerial roles, it has taken him over 10 games to get his teams playing the way he wants to.

Speaker 1 So Spurs are now on, what, they've played about 15 or so under him.

Speaker 5 He's a proper manager.

Speaker 5 I think he's the real deal, Thomas Frank, just from just from prep that I've done for when he was at Brentford and the sort of stuff that he does, watch interviews with him and the

Speaker 5 way that he talks. And the thing is, I think he's a people person.

Speaker 5 You've got far too many in the game at the moment who are failing because because they know it all on the paper and on the screen to show the players, but they cannot interact with the players.

Speaker 5 Um, and I think that he, him and his staff, have got that ability as well, which is the key. Yeah, no, I have faith.

Speaker 4 I'm not, I think he's very good. Uh, let's go to Stanford Bridge, Chelsea three Wolves-not necessarily the game, it was a very straightforward win for Chelsea.
The biggest story is Rob Edwards.

Speaker 4 Uh, Wolves expecting to announce uh his arrival very soon, three and a half-year deal. Um, he wasn't in charge for Middlesbrough's 2-1-1 over Birmingham at the weekend.

Speaker 4 Boroughs say they're disappointed. Apparently, compensation for £2 million has been agreed.
Barry Wolves at eight points from safety. Middlesbrough are in the top two in the championship.

Speaker 4 What do you make of his decision?

Speaker 1 Well, obviously, I have no real insight into what has motivated his decision. I presume it's a combination of getting paid more money, the fact that Wolves are in the Premier League and he has

Speaker 1 history with Wolves. He played for them.
He used to coach their youth team.

Speaker 1 I think, I believe his family live in Telford near wolves training ground so it's a combination of those factors only time will tell whether it's a step up a step down or a step sideways uh i would say a on face value it's a step sideways at best and if i was a middlesborough fan i would be pretty fed up with him if I'm honest.

Speaker 1 And I'd say if I was Steve Gibson, who seems to be one of the better chairmen in football, I would be very angry with him. but these things happen.

Speaker 1 As Roy Keane famously said, if you want loyalty, get a dog.

Speaker 5 It's interesting because when you first see it, you think, what on earth are you doing?

Speaker 5 He's actually got Middlesbrough going, even though he's a couple of times after the game, he's got a little bit Alan Partridge with some of his interviews, Rob Edwards, the Middlesbrough fans who are, you know, proper northern

Speaker 5 looking a little bit strange at his antics on the side of the pitch when they win. However, they win in.
I think the key here is,

Speaker 5 like, Barry said, he had worked as an academy coach. I think it was assistant to Kenny Jackett.
I think it was. So he obviously wants to go home to one of his homes.

Speaker 5 So I can understand that, but you only have to look at the table to realize and look at the squad to realise that this is going to be difficult. I think a key thing is

Speaker 5 one of his assistants, A.D. Vivish, he isn't going to Wolves with him from Middlesbrough.

Speaker 5 And those in the know know that he has a massive part to play in how successful Middlesbrough have been, and he's not going to Wolves.

Speaker 4 Was he the brains behind

Speaker 4 Mark Robbins at Cobb?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 4 Is that right? Unless, I mean, that may be doing Mark Robbins at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 No, yeah, but he is very good.

Speaker 5 You need a good number two. I mean, quite a lot.
You know, you need somebody who is different to you in terms of thinking. So, you know, like diversity of thinking.

Speaker 5 You need someone who, and a lot of football managers get people in who are their mates that they've had for years who do not go, in my opinion, you shouldn't do that, or what about this?

Speaker 5 And they don't tend, they just have people who

Speaker 5 laugh at their jokes and

Speaker 5 then you just become a caricature of yourself. Seen it a lot at leads over the years.
That's what's happened in the background.

Speaker 5 So you need somebody who's a little bit different to you who will who will sort of, but he obviously

Speaker 5 is a very, very good coach, very well respected. And a lot of people think that a lot of stuff he did at Burrew was what you know was down to his work.

Speaker 4 That's why obviously, I mean, for me to get Barry to laugh at one of my jokes it's next to impossible so you know that's why i have a number two we're different people different different views on the game i'm quite pleased because he's not sat in that the dark and in a pit that man pit that he now we've got him in there a little bit of light and you can actually and he's brushed his hair unbelievable i have not brushed my hair in about 15 years you can't tell anyway nice moment nice moment for malagusto to score his first ever goal in the 98th game and estevao is good at the chelsea reports um will astonvilla for Bournemouth-nil.

Speaker 4 Did you see this coming?

Speaker 1 I did speak to someone after the Forest game against Bournemouth Warden. He said Bournemouth really don't look very good at them, you know, didn't play very well and

Speaker 1 that actually maybe it's they are a little bit brittle about them.

Speaker 1 You know, it's a very young squad, so they lost a lot of players over summer, you know, really done well to compensate for that with a recruitment.

Speaker 1 I saw them at Leeds and they weren't very good that day, so menu was very poor.

Speaker 1 I think, obviously, yesterday, one problem was that thrown a little bit off guard by the head injuries early on and Smith having to go off and that changes things but I think Ire Ola said they were pretty awful in the first half after that not much about them lacking energy obviously very good free kick from Bwendia do like a straight run-up and straight up straight over the top always always an enjoyable one and Arnard's strike was really good as well but yeah Bournemouth I don't know if it's a little bit of high energy starts of the season's caught up with them.

Speaker 1 A little bit tired,

Speaker 1 a little bit leggy, you know, maybe even mentally fatigued from everything they've had to take on board with the changes and stuff.

Speaker 1 But they're doing very well, they've set a good foundation for the season. And let's be honest, Aston Villa are no mugs.

Speaker 1 You know, they've had difficulties with balancing domestic and Europe, but you know, that squad, as you see yesterday, I know Watkins missed out in England's squad, so he had he he looked a little bit more live than I've seen him recently.

Speaker 1 You know, the sort of classic point

Speaker 1 to prove to people more senior and

Speaker 1 missed the penalty. You know, really, really good save

Speaker 1 from Semenyo's penalty from up by Martinez. You know, he made another cracking save with the deflected shot.
So he wasn't, you know,

Speaker 1 easily could have had a couple of goals. It wasn't a complete

Speaker 1 rollover in the second half. But

Speaker 1 yeah, I just think maybe there's just, say, it's been quite an intense start to the season that might have caught up with with them. And, you know, Villa just find the stride.
And

Speaker 1 those two things meet, and it ends in a good sort of domination from Villa on their part. Yeah,

Speaker 4 I wonder, Barry, I guess there are so many teams in this division that are good.

Speaker 4 And if you arrive and you are playing well and the other team just have a slightly off day, there will be, I think, a lot of teams that have good little runs and then bad little runs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Villa are a decent team. They're brilliant at home.
I think they've only lost one in 24 Premier League games at home. Bournemouth are an undeniably good team.

Speaker 1 I think this scoreline flattered Villa a little bit. They did deserve to win.
Bournemouth were rubbish in the first half, but they missed two very good chances, missed that penalty as well.

Speaker 1 And then up until near 80 minutes, Villa only were only in Inverticomas 2-0 up. Could have been, you know, Bournemouth probably should have scored, and then the game got away from them.

Speaker 1 So I don't think they were as bad as the 4-0 suggests.

Speaker 4 We spent a lot of the last pod talking about how good Dan Burns' head is.

Speaker 1 I was thinking this, watching this game yesterday.

Speaker 1 All the lovely things we said about Dan Byrne.

Speaker 1 And he looked like a fan who'd, well, he is a fan who'd won a competition to play for Newcastle against Brentford. Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 4 Look, Brentford won 3-1. They have an identical record, Lucy, in their first 11 games as last season.

Speaker 4 And when you consider who's left the club, you know, including Thomas Frank and Wisser and Buomo, that is mightily impressive.

Speaker 4 But yes, Dan Byrne is slower than Django Watara would be the sort of conclusion to this game.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think that

Speaker 5 Newcastle have just shown in parts of this season that, you know, the injuries to defence, particularly to fullbacks, Live Ramento and Hall, is so important because Dan Byrne does brilliantly, you know, whether he fits in at left back or whether he's playing as a centre-back, whatever.

Speaker 5 But as soon as you get him in a foot race with someone who's quicker than him, it's difficult. He's like six foot, whatever, six foot 20.

Speaker 5 It's very, very difficult for him to catch up. But Newcastle, they just look a little bit meek and mild yesterday, didn't they?

Speaker 5 They didn't, you know, Brentford, a Brentford, they've got that model that, you know, they were convincing us that whichever manager was in, they'd still play exactly the same.

Speaker 5 And it looks like that that's is what's happened. They're leaning a bit on.
a bit more on set pieces. Michael Coyote, I love him.
He's great.

Speaker 5 Not just like, I think Keith Andrews called him the best long throw taker in the world.

Speaker 5 And they scored more than double the number of premier league goals from throw-ins that than any other team so they're using that to their uh advantage but players are playing well tiago's playing well he's got them going

Speaker 5 as a group and they're just relentless everything they do brentford particularly at home they're just absolutely relentless and newcastle just weren't a match for them and it's disappointing you know you look at the the newcastle fans away from home they haven't won in 10 two points above the relegation zone barry you'll be you'll be pleased but i think newcastle fans just a little bit of a worry now just a lack of threat they're getting themselves i've done some champions league games at home and the atmosphere is brilliant they play really well they haven't managed to get voltamada keeping him going he started off very very well but it's like eddie how said it's a it's like getting a brand new team together because the the player at the top of it is not isak and he's completely different.

Speaker 5 Obviously, Visa being injured,

Speaker 5 they would have shared the minutes, I would have suspected. But Volta Mada plays different, and the whole team has to get used to that.
And they just don't look the same.

Speaker 1 I think you have to ask questions about Eddie Howe regarding Newcastle's away for him. This is the third game in a row.
They've lost away

Speaker 1 Brighton, West Ham, now Brentford. It was so obvious Byrne was going to get sent off yesterday.

Speaker 1 Why wasn't he replaced?

Speaker 1 He got booked. Then he was very lucky that he fouled Uttara in the penalty box, but Uttara was incorrectly booked for a simulation.
Then he gave away the penalty and got sent off.

Speaker 1 Dan, you know, we're criticising Dan Burn, but he's playing out of position again at left back against a very pacey winger. Lewis Hall is on the bench.
Why he is a left back. Why not start him?

Speaker 4 To be fair, I think he was changed. I think Lewis Hall was just there ready to come on when that thing happened.

Speaker 1 So, you know, fair enough. Sandra Tanali kept giving the ball away yesterday, but he seems to be undroppable.

Speaker 1 Joe Linton is not playing well,

Speaker 1 but he keeps getting started instead of Jacob Ramsey. So I do think while he is a very good coach, Eddie Howe

Speaker 1 was largely responsible for what unfolded yesterday.

Speaker 4 And at West Ham. All right, that'll do for part two.
Part three, we'll begin at the City Ground.

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Speaker 4 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. A Forest 3 Leeds one.
I mean, we couldn't be more across this game. Lucy and Will, you were both there.
We sent you both to the big one.

Speaker 4 It is, Will, a massive win for Forest, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, first win in 10 in the league. First since the opening day against Brentford, actually.
And also, don't want to say this is not in Forest, but I was there for both.

Speaker 1 And they're the only only times I've seen Forest this season. So

Speaker 4 if Mr.

Speaker 1 Maronakis wants to pay me some money, I can attend all home games.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, the first half, I would say, was completely devoid of quality, really.

Speaker 1 You know, two teams struggling for confidence. Leeds were sort of gifted the opening goal.

Speaker 1 And it was a really good finish from Leeds, but that was probably the best thing that happened, was Nemech's goal.

Speaker 1 And to give up, you know, the equaliser two minutes later is pretty criminal on their part, another error.

Speaker 1 But obviously, you can see that the foundations of having to go from Nuno to Ange to now very Daishian football, where the defence was very solid yesterday.

Speaker 1 Nemetchra, apart from obviously taking advantage of the defensive mistake against Milenkovich and Murillo, got absolutely no change out of them at all. Couldn't cope with the physicality really.

Speaker 1 He spent a lot of time sort of moaning at the ref, but it just didn't really have any ability to compete with them.

Speaker 1 And then it got to the hour mark, and I think everyone everyone could see that Leeds were there for the taking.

Speaker 1 And Daish thought, yeah, I've got, you know, you look at that bench, some great players on it. So went with Iwani over Eagle Jesus, who I don't think so for proper number nine.

Speaker 1 And so probably made a lot of sense. And having Hutchinson on the right, and Morgan Gibbswite was getting a bit more influence in the middle and things like that.

Speaker 1 And then Doy had a good, really good game. There for the taking.

Speaker 1 And you know, once, you know, really good cross and header for the for the second. Just to lift.
I think the city ground until that point point was really flat.

Speaker 1 I'd say, and it's not definitely not always the case, they're still sort of working out how Daish will play and things like that. And that lifted it.

Speaker 1 And then, once Jack Harrison had to come on at left back and gave away the penalty again against Hutchinson, who's really not done much since he's arrived at Forrest for a big fee.

Speaker 1 Yeah, obviously, that was game over, but big, important changes from Daish.

Speaker 1 I sorted out the defence that they had very few problems yesterday and at the same time made important changes at a crucial point, point, and they're all the right decisions.

Speaker 1 So, you know, plenty of positivity to take out of it. And after Interfrabra, they got Liverpool away, which is tricky.

Speaker 1 So, if they'd lost yesterday against a dreadful leads team, yeah, it would have would have caused big problems. But, yeah,

Speaker 4 the green shoots at Forrest are there.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, I thought it was going to be really exciting. Two early goals, but like Will said, it was just lacking in quality.

Speaker 5 And I think you've got one proactive manager in Ditch who thought we can win this because this is is crap, and we can win this, and put three subs on.

Speaker 5 And then a reactive manager in Daniel Farker who then thought, Oh shit, I better put my subs on, but it was too late by that point. And Forrest had gone 2-1-0.
But

Speaker 5 leads because they didn't, it's a balance with leads. They brought all the recruitment has been sort of big and physical and run all over teams.
But at some point, you've got to pass the ball.

Speaker 5 So you've got Tanaka, who physically probably can't stand an away game, but who's technically very good.

Speaker 5 So when they try and get the, when they get the ball at the back and they try to build up, they look up and it's like, right, well, we're just going to go diagonal from right to left.

Speaker 5 So, all Forrest did was just drop

Speaker 5 the winger and went, thank you very much. I mean, they got a goal out of it, Leeds, but Forrest just, there was various points where Forrest could have defended better.

Speaker 5 But all they did, Leeds, was just go from back to front diagonal, didn't try and really build

Speaker 5 from the back and pass it because they didn't really have the passes in the middle. And it was easy for Forrest.
But what Leeds fans are saying saying is that

Speaker 5 one of the most important positions in the in the club in recruitment, they've got somebody who's has not very much experience in first-team professional football and he's been at the club for years and it's such a key position.

Speaker 1 What have they been doing?

Speaker 4 Have they just

Speaker 4 sort of cleaning up?

Speaker 1 What's the yeah, well, who knows?

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 I think if you're going to keep Daniel Farker, who actually looks like he's tried to adapt the way that leads are playing, he's changed the formation slightly and the recruitment trying to get more physical runners in there because obviously the experience he's had in the premier league where he didn't do that well with teams he noticed the physicality the difference but i just think that they haven't they needed to really really back him in the summer and they haven't and you you you're seeing the fruits now and the run that they're on now villa they've got chelsea they've got city there they've got liverpool it it it's yeah it it's not a happy fan base at the moment it's interesting you talk about physicality because you'd sort of think if there's something the championship would match with the Premier League, it would be physicality.

Speaker 4 It wouldn't be its ability. Or is it finding physical players who are also

Speaker 4 technically good? Do you see what I mean? Like, like the championship, you should be able to match the physicality of nothing else, right?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, the thing is, Leeds is that they passed the championship to death, and they had the pace in wide areas in Dan James and Nanto.

Speaker 5 Dan James came on as a sub, and instead of going on the left-hand side, where Savona was really struggling, the right back for Forrest throughout the match against Occupor.

Speaker 5 He put him on the right and it was a little bit too late. Nanto, I think he's been training, but he's not entirely fit.
And he sort of lost a little bit of what made him good.

Speaker 5 So they had they basically had the four best wingers last last season in the championship. Solomon went back to Spurs and I think Ramazzan is left as well.

Speaker 1 So they haven't quite got the squad doesn't look technically as good as it did last season in the championship where they, you know, they passed teams to death and just use that sort of pace in the wide areas as as well so it's yeah it's it's not it's not good sean says can we un-relegate west ham now they beat burnley 3-2 two wins in a row barry are you unrelegating them not yet no i'm certainly unrelegating forest i think but i think it's too early to unrelegate west ham they they only inverted commas beat burnley but any win when you're in the position they're in is a good one there was a big big protest before this game by west ham fans who actually got.

Speaker 1 You often see protests where people have a fake coffin, you know, to symbolise the death of the club or whatever.

Speaker 1 And the West Ham fans actually sprung for a real coffin, which I was quite impressed by.

Speaker 1 I'm presuming it was empty. They didn't just like borrow it for a couple of hours.

Speaker 4 Do you think they like ordered the coffin, like pretended someone had died to order the coffin?

Speaker 1 Like someone had to to go and order it in like a I need a coffin way or do you think they just they told I guess I guess you can just buy coffins are us if you want one I mean there's a couple there's an undertaker's near where I live I might drop in later I don't think you can buy so I don't think you could just go in and buy a coffin no I think you might need a certificate

Speaker 1 do you need a certificate to buy a coffin I don't know I presume there's some undertakers among our listenership if they'd like to clarify yeah it was a good win for for West Ham who went behind to a very good Zine Fleming header.

Speaker 1 The only setback for them was that Freddie Potts went off with what looked like a hamstring injury, so they might be missing him now for four to six weeks, you'd imagine.

Speaker 1 Luckily, there's an international break to take up two weeks of that, but good win for them. I'm not on relegating them yet.

Speaker 4 Fair enough. Yeah, Martin DeBragford didn't have a great time in goal for Burnley.
But Alphonse Areola just let one in as well, just to sort of, I think, for the goalkeepers' union, union, didn't he?

Speaker 4 But look, nicely Callum Wilson scoring a very Callum Wilson-y goal, and uh, and nice to see Carl Walker Peters. He looked very happy when he scored a goal.

Speaker 4 Uh, yeah, something like 10,000 people in that uh protest with the coffin. Everton hadn't beaten Fulham since 2018 when Marco Silva was their manager, they beat them 2-0-will.

Speaker 4 Fulham, one point above the relegation zone. Marco Silva was pretty scathing afterwards.
Says it's not good enough at all. We didn't cope.
It's a moment for us to blame ourselves and cliche,

Speaker 4 look at ourselves in the mirror.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it could have been far worse for the amount of disallowed goals knocking around as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Fulham have really struggled. Injuries have taken the toll or sort of lack of investment in the squad is problematic, which will frustrate Silver.

Speaker 1 Everton actually did some good business in the summer and started to, it's really showing now as well, probably the difference in the two squads.

Speaker 1 A fantastic assist from Ira Boon for Adrissa Gay.

Speaker 1 No need to try and score yourself and you can sort of dummy it against your own foot. I don't know what you call that, but a fantastic, a fantastic moment.
Good for the fancy football managers.

Speaker 1 They'll get the assist points from that.

Speaker 4 No, I think Dewsbury Hall gets the assist. Interestingly, no,

Speaker 4 not that I care, but someone else

Speaker 4 lost the day or something. Yeah, I did say interestingly because, but yeah, apparently, but do carry on.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, considering Tarkowski try and sort of thrash the ball through the net and whatnot. But yeah, I think Fulham are just sort of in a little bit of a blaze.

Speaker 1 You know, after a few quiet weeks for Everton, they seem to be back at it.

Speaker 1 Grealish. Dewsbury Hall's looking fantastic item, which, considering he had next to no football last season, was a problem.
But yeah, no, really,

Speaker 1 it's probably again a tale of two summons of recruitment that Everton seems to have evolved after sort of difficult times. VCWS Fulham have sort of rested on their laurels.

Speaker 1 And I think, well, they signed Kevin. That's it.
I mean,

Speaker 1 how much can you rely on a man named Kevin to change everything? So good, they named him once.

Speaker 4 Kevin at Fulham, Barry at Everton. Barry had actually not a terrible game, Barry.

Speaker 4 The highlight of actually the game was Dewsbury Hall's disallowed goal, where he kept celebrating, even though the liner was right in front of him with the flag up, going, this goal is disallowed, but didn't stop Keenan just going, I'm going to celebrate this one.

Speaker 5 For Fulham, it's coincided with when Postacoglu went from Forrest, the Fulham sort of dip has coincided with the word on the street that Forrest wanted a short-term manager to the end of the season and then take Marco Silver, who Marianakis knows in the summer.

Speaker 5 And I don't know whether that's a coincidence or not, but it just seems to have coincided with Fulham just not playing as well or getting the results.

Speaker 5 And Marco Silver not happy with the way his team are playing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, he's had his head turned, so he's not looking at the pitch. And so that is a problem for Fulham.

Speaker 5 He gets his head turned a lot, doesn't he?

Speaker 5 He does flirt a lot, bless him.

Speaker 4 But he does stay a bit, you know, like he's just one of those. Do you think he's just a

Speaker 4 bit of a bad boy in East Enders, but actually, he's always loyal, but he's just occasionally, you know, he has to sort of sheepishly come back at you.

Speaker 1 He's a big boy with a heart and skull. Exactly.
That Jimmy Carr kill.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it, Sharon.
Palace nil, Brighton nil. Any thoughts, Barry?

Speaker 1 Brighton got a penalty and then it was overturned. And Georgina Rooter

Speaker 1 was booked for, quite correctly, for a dive. And I think apart from that.
Yeah, nothing.

Speaker 4 Fine. David says, no questions, probably too raw to discuss on the pod.
Love to Lucy for all that nonsense she's had to deal with in recent months.

Speaker 4 Always love it when she's on the pod, especially when she's giving Barry some stick.

Speaker 4 Yeah, look, we've chatted about this before, Lucy, about what you want to say, what you can, say, what you can't say about the Jerry Barton case and you in court.

Speaker 4 But I just, he's been found guilty of six counts of sending grossly offensive social media posts aimed at you, Enia Luco, and Jeremy Vine, who'll be sentenced on December the 8th. Just

Speaker 4 how was it? How are you feeling?

Speaker 5 I don't want to say what I want to say until after the sentences and obviously trust the legal process. But what I will say is it's been traumatic and harrowing a couple of years.

Speaker 5 And I still cannot and couldn't at the time and cannot get my head around someone who I've never engaged with, I've never met, want to try and sort of destroy my career and in terms of that in my life as well.

Speaker 5 I think anybody who's been at the hands of like a any sort of bullying or harassment will know how traumatic it is. And you know, it's just relentless.

Speaker 5 It was relentless for about six months, but it's gone on for two years. And it's not just a local thing.
It's right in the public eye from someone with over two and a half million followers.

Speaker 5 You just can't escape it, really, when it comes down to it. It's, you know, just because I was a female doing the job, somebody thought that I shouldn't be doing it.

Speaker 5 I don't know if any of you have ever been a witness at a Crown Court trial, but it's so,

Speaker 5 so stressful. You get, when you get cross-examined, you are on trial, basically.
Deeply, deeply. unpleasant.
And I just think, I think the message is that, you know, online abuse isn't trivial.

Speaker 5 I know that. And, you know, unless Unless you're at the heart of it, it's very difficult to explain.
But words do have power.

Speaker 5 When they're used maliciously, it causes real harm. But I'm glad it's over.
I'm really pleased with the outcome. And I hope that's the end of it.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And it must have been so hard to go through with the case.
I mean, there must have been so many times you thought, look, I hate this, but I can't be bothered to, like you say, be cross-examined.

Speaker 4 Like you're a defender.

Speaker 5 Durout the two years, I had to keep going because I think

Speaker 5 you've got to protect the women to come. You've got to protect the women in the future.
I think that's how I looked at it. And also, why should I take that sort of relentless bullying and harassment?

Speaker 5 Somebody has to stand up. But, you know, when you get into Crown Court and you walk into a Crown Court as a witness and everybody's in there, jury, judge, and you're just like, wow,

Speaker 5 this is real. This is, you know, and it's tough.
But like I say, when you're questioned, it is you're on trial. I was basically trying to justify why I had my job, which was really, really unpleasant.

Speaker 5 But, you know, hopefully, I trust the legal process so far. And hopefully, the sentencing will, will, will justify what's happened to all three of us.
All the usual

Speaker 1 freedom of speech advocates, let's call them, on X,

Speaker 1 seem up, are up in arms and seem outraged that someone could be convicted in a criminal court for what they say

Speaker 1 hurty words.

Speaker 1 It's not just that, is it, though?

Speaker 1 Like, as you've outlined, it's bullying, it's harassment, and you're being subjected to it at the hands of someone you've never even met who has a huge amount of influence.

Speaker 1 Their argument that he's been in some way hard done by, I think, is nonsense.

Speaker 4 Anyway, Lucy, look, all power to you. And

Speaker 4 thank you for being good and being on this pod and making it better. You know,

Speaker 4 as long as you don't show us up too much, you're very welcome

Speaker 4 to be on as many times as possible. Slightly different subject.
Ronan says, is this the greatest snow goal of all time? I put it in the chat. I don't know if you've seen it.

Speaker 4 An overhead kick scored by Athletico Ottawa by David Rodriguez in the Canadian Premier League final, played in an absolutely ridiculous amount of snow. That goal made it 1-1.

Speaker 4 Ottawa went on to win 2-1, so well done to them.

Speaker 1 But, you know, orange ball and snow.

Speaker 1 Beautiful. No,

Speaker 4 you can't beat it. So, uh, thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Uh, and that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody.
Thank you, Barry.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thanks, Lucy.

Speaker 4 Thank you. Thank you, Will.
Thanks, Max. And if you've listened to all of this, go and vote for us in the FSAs because otherwise, we'll, you know, just, you know, just do the right thing.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

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