Troy Parrott’s on fire and England complete perfect campaign – Football Weekly

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.

Speaker 2 Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows home, so you don't have to.

Speaker 2 Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one.

Speaker 2 You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

Speaker 3 Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, wishing you a very happy half-off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited.

Speaker 1 To be clear, that's half price, not half the service.

Speaker 6 And Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price.

Speaker 1 So that means a half day.

Speaker 4 Yeah? Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

Speaker 7 Upfront payment of $45 for free month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only.
Speed slow under 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra.

Speaker 1 See MittMobile.com.

Speaker 8 Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Troy Parrot Weekly. Wow, there are just moments which remind you why this game is so great.
Injury time, Kelleher, scales, Parrot.

Speaker 8 It was like watching Finnan to Quinn to Keene all over again. Ray Houghton not wanting a replay in case it was offside.
People in Dublin Airport hoisting their wheelie bags above their heads.

Speaker 8 Kevin Doyle running around a TV studio, just absolutely glorious. After that, the England headlines are all about Jude Bellingham.
Was that a stroke or just a man walking off a football pitch?

Speaker 8 You can't not talk about him, but what are the other actual important things for Thomas Tuchel to think about? Now, England have qualified without conceding a goal.

Speaker 8 The big games for Scotland and Wales are this week after a mad night. The Scots lost to Greece but are still alive, and Wales edged past Liechtenstein.
Harlem and Norway batter Italy.

Speaker 8 Portugal scored nine, brackets nine without Ronaldo. This is another brilliant international break.
We'll answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 8 On the panel today, Barney Ronnie, welcome.

Speaker 1 Hi, hi, hi, Max. Hi, everyone.

Speaker 8 Hello, John Bruin.

Speaker 1 Hello, Max.

Speaker 8 And welcome, Jonathan Wilson.

Speaker 9 Morning. How you doing?

Speaker 8 I'm very good. You can all just sit back and enjoy a couple of voice notes.
James says, has Barry transcended to a higher place?

Speaker 8 Tommy says, who's checking in on Barry to make sure he's okay since he started running? Ireland are on fire.

Speaker 8 Dan says, it's no coincidence that Baz is away in Ireland, achieve these two incredible results. Rumours are he's masterminded the whole thing from behind the scenes.

Speaker 8 And Sonny says, Does Barry know how to record a voice note? Well, it is his day off, and I messaged him to see if he wanted to come on or record a voice note.

Speaker 8 No worries if he couldn't be asked, I said. And in the most on-brand Barry response, he just said, Ah, I can't be asked.

Speaker 8 So, in his place, before we go to the panel, another voice note from our Republic of Ireland victory correspondent, David O'Doherty.

Speaker 5 Oh, Max,

Speaker 5 this surpassed beating Portugal 2-0 last Thursday with Ronaldo being sent off. It features, it's got to be the greatest Irish goal celebration sids.

Speaker 5 Dave O'Leary winning the penalty shootout against Romania in the 1990 World Cup. It's the sixth minute of injury time.

Speaker 5 Troy Parrott does what you call a knee slide on your arse.

Speaker 5 He's pulled his shirt off and then players, subs, staff do an old-school pile on, including someone in a track suit does a knee slide into his head.

Speaker 5 That when they're all standing up, definitely Festi Abasele is slightly worried that they may have crushed the man who has scored five goals for Ireland in four days.

Speaker 1 A hat-trick.

Speaker 8 It was a 2 p.m.

Speaker 5 kickoff. So I was thinking, I'll watch it and whatever happens, I'll carry on with my day.
I have failed to do that.

Speaker 5 I've just been watching Seamus Coleman crying, everyone crying as they salute the traveling support. Victor Orban

Speaker 5 storming off like a James Bond baddie. The playoff is after Christmas.
That's not relevant. What is relevant is how

Speaker 5 this has made me feel. Thank you.
Thank you, Ireland.

Speaker 8 Thank you, David. But the messages kept coming.
Paul, one of Ireland's best ever weeks and Barry is missing again. I demand a recount.
O'Sheen, where's Barry and what have you done to him?

Speaker 8 Gareth, we definitely need a voice recording for Baz this time around. Robert, where's Barry? Terry, surely you get Barry on for this.
Mitch, get Barry on the pod immediately.

Speaker 8 Paul, voice message from Barry, please, preferably one recorded at four in the morning. Well, at 4:06 a.m., Barry wrote, I will do one.
And three hours later, he did.

Speaker 8 And here it is, all four and a half minutes of it.

Speaker 10 Hello, everybody. It's Barry here.

Speaker 10 The morning after, the afternoon before, and I'm channeling my inner Ellis James by recording a voice note for Football Weekly after a highly improbable victory by my national team, a group of men of whom I'm very proud.

Speaker 10 The Irish team haven't given their fans much to get excited about under Hymer Halgrimson thus far, but all that's changed in the last week.

Speaker 10 I didn't give us a snowball's chance in hell of beating Portugal, but we did that in Dublin earlier in the week.

Speaker 10 Seeing Cristiano Ronaldo get sent off for an act of petulance was the cherry on the icing of that particular cake. And then we went to Hungary needing to win.

Speaker 10 I didn't think we'd win that either, I must say.

Speaker 10 And when we went to goal down inside three minutes, I thought the jig was well and truly up. But we equalised.
We went behind again, equalised again.

Speaker 10 Hungary went ahead for the second time.

Speaker 10 What can you say about Troy Parrott? What a week it's been for him. He's 23 years old.

Speaker 10 I've been vaguely aware of him for years as this peripheral figure at Spurs, who didn't seem quite good enough to break into the first team. He went on loan, I think, to MK Dons, to Preston,

Speaker 10 Excelsior in the Netherlands. I knew he was still playing in the Netherlands.
I wasn't really sure how he was getting on. And as we all know, goals you score in the Erdivisi don't actually count.

Speaker 10 Before last week, I could not think of a single thing of note he'd ever done in an Ireland shirt. And I was shocked to learn he'd made over 30 appearances.
I guess most of them were off the bench.

Speaker 10 He'd scored five goals, four of them in friendlies, one in a Nations League game. And now he's scored five goals in the past two games, both of which were incredibly important.
Two against Portugal.

Speaker 10 A hat-trick away from home in the hostile environment that is the Puscus Arena. What an achievement for the young man.

Speaker 10 He has cemented his place in the Ireland Hall of Fame, not just the Sporting Hall of Fame, but the General Zeitgeist Hall of Fame, Cultural Hall of Fame.

Speaker 10 He'll never have to buy a drink in Ireland again.

Speaker 10 And he gave a very emotional interview to RT after the game. It's worth seeking out on social media.
He was

Speaker 10 in tears trying to process the enormity of his achievement.

Speaker 10 And now Ireland are in the playoffs. I hope we get an easy draw.
I guess lots of other countries will be hoping we're the easy draw they get.

Speaker 10 We'll find out on Thursday. whether we're home or away who we're playing

Speaker 10 and uh i think the world cup in uh the usa canada and mexico would be a better tournament with ireland in it not least because of all the irish diaspora who live in the states and in canada not sure how many paddies there are in mexico i guess there's a few gringos

Speaker 10 anyway uh enjoy the rest of the podcast and i look forward to hearing barney piss on our chips and rain on our parade when it comes out later.

Speaker 8 Thank you, Barry Glendenning. So Barney,

Speaker 8 he called you out at the end of his note to say, come on, piss on our chips. But I don't think you're going to do.
Well, it's up to you. You may if you want to.

Speaker 1 Well, obviously, I listened to every second of Barry's voice note several times

Speaker 1 and enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I think if I were,

Speaker 1 let's not put me in this situation. I think it just...
If I were Barry's therapist, I'd probably say, why do you have this fear? Why do you think you have that feeling?

Speaker 1 And let's just live in that feeling for a second and ask why. But I mean, in an astonishing twist, he's actually 100% wrong.

Speaker 1 Obviously, the actual scale of the game, it's not for me to say there are still two

Speaker 1 knockout one-off games against potentially really quite dangerous opponents to play. The point is,

Speaker 1 I think that everybody, everybody who the well of emotion over this thing is just amazing.

Speaker 1 And it is why international football is great and i know we're supposed to be call it the the the international break to imply that this is just an absence that nothing is happening here that this is a into but the this is a qualifying game during during which troy parrot and basically the rest of ireland have had one of the sporting highs of their entire existence and it just club football does not hit like that it just doesn't and the way parrot was talking i'm sure we'll go on to talk about this but uh there is nothing quite like it.

Speaker 1 And just to witness that as a sort of third party to it is amazing.

Speaker 1 And it kind of redeems the entire spectacle and, as 100 billion people have already said, reminds us why this thing is good and why we put up with it.

Speaker 1 I think it's the moment of the sporting season so far. And I'm really sorry, Barry, if that doesn't fit your narrative, but at least I've managed to annoy you even more by agreeing with you.

Speaker 8 And I don't know, it's just one of those moments.

Speaker 8 Like the i could watch john the goal and then like the the next sort of four minutes when hungry have the ball and then you know rayhounds going just kill her just get it launched it's got to be full-time just over and over again it's one of those things one of those moments where even if you're not an island fan I just want to get all the content.

Speaker 8 I want all the airports cheering.

Speaker 8 The Brazilian ESPN commentary is amazing. It's all just like totally joyous.

Speaker 1 Imagine that if there is a Mrs. Troy Parrot or Mr.
and Mrs. Parrott is parents, they're currently looking at a wall on the room to put the picture of that moment on there because Troy Parrott becomes

Speaker 1 a national and international hero in the space of five days.

Speaker 1 I actually saw last season Troy play for Excelsior Rotterdam, right? When I was on one of my

Speaker 1 drinking trips to Holland. Heavy metal Holland trips.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we went to a rock bar after, yeah. And we

Speaker 1 I suddenly texted my Irish contingent friend saying, Troy Parrot's played in this game.

Speaker 1 Because Troy Parrott was a big hope for the Irish fans a few years ago when he was never quite made it at Tottenham and then went on a series of loans. Obviously a good finisher.

Speaker 1 If Evan Ferguson had been fit, he probably would have been on the bench. But now he is a national hero, an international hero, as I say.

Speaker 1 And those ecstatic scenes across the the Irish diaspora, across the world, across anyone watching it that understands football and what it means. It's a Marco Tardelli moment.

Speaker 1 It's just, this is why we love football. And

Speaker 1 Ireland have suffered over the last decade. I think the last moment that compares to it would be the Shane Long goal against Germany that took them to Euro 2016.

Speaker 1 I was sat next to Jonathan when that went in, actually.

Speaker 9 In Glasgow, it should be said. We went out the game.

Speaker 1 In Glasgow, yes.

Speaker 9 We're watching more Scottish heartbreak against Poland.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, Scottish heartbreak. I mean, that's always the undertow of international football, of course.
But Ireland

Speaker 1 have suffered. They've had some, you know, failed regimes.

Speaker 1 Stephen Kenney, the Russell Martin of Irish football, trying to play an idealistic way when Ireland under Jaime Halgrimson play, put them under pressure, get it launched, get it in a box, let's see what happens.

Speaker 1 And thus we are celebrating one of the finest moments that you'll ever see on a football pitch.

Speaker 8 And actually, John, you have talked about you know a classic Republic of Ireland goal before, and it's sometimes been sort of shouted down.

Speaker 8 But this really was because I've watched the Robbie Keene goal. I think Minar Quinn's flick on is unbelievable compared to Liam Scales.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's amazing, yeah.

Speaker 8 But they fit together like symbiotically,

Speaker 1 yeah. Liam Scales' flick, and then Troy Parrott.
I mean,

Speaker 1 let's credit it. That is actually quite difficult to do.
It's, you know,

Speaker 1 the finishing and also the second goal this sort of falling leaf finish that he did it reminded me of uh another irishman john o'shea's goal against arsenal for manchester united about 10 20 years ago where he just drops in and everyone's watching it thinking is that actually going to go over the it yes it has and

Speaker 1 just oh ecstatic ecstatic scenes also as barry said in his voice note

Speaker 1 The Hungarians' desolation followed them trying to game the system a little bit, didn't it? You know, trying to kill time, they're trying to kill time, but the panic setting in was just incredible.

Speaker 9 Because

Speaker 9 we obviously take research very seriously. I also saw Troy Parrott play last season.
I actually saw him play in Budapest for Arzed against Ferns Varosch

Speaker 9 when he didn't really do very much. But there was a lovely conversation and hope with Robbie Keene who of course is the Fens Varisch manager afterwards.

Speaker 9 And he's now become the first Irishman ever to score an international hat-trick outside of Dublin, which I think gives some sense of the scale of the achievement.

Speaker 9 That you'd have assumed that Ireland would have played somebody bad enough at some point that they would have scored enough goals or somebody would have got a hat-trick.

Speaker 9 But Ireland just don't score goals. So to score five goals in two games is

Speaker 9 genuinely kind of already catapults him into the stratosphere.

Speaker 1 Well, seeing as everyone now has a Troy Parrot story.

Speaker 8 I see your Troy Parrot story and I raise you this one.

Speaker 1 I've liked Troy Parrott ever since he came to Millwall. Like Harry Kane,

Speaker 1 another ex-Millwall player scoring goals of the weekend. But Troy Parrott didn't make quite the same impression at Millwall on the pitch.
He didn't score any goals. He was injured.

Speaker 1 But he was really popular for two reasons. One, he was obviously a really good player.

Speaker 1 He's got that movement. He's like a proper...

Speaker 1 proper athlete, a proper mover. He's really quick.
He looks hungry. Just the way he moves looks good.
But also,

Speaker 1 he had a reputation as a bit of a... He was having a good time in Southeast London.
And Mill fans liked that.

Speaker 1 They liked Victor and Opco and Uren for the same reason when they came and spent most of their days in the New Cross Inn, which I remember well. And went down that season.
It wasn't like that. But

Speaker 1 the word was just that he was a good bloke. And everyone liked him and wanted him to succeed.
And I kind of followed all his movements since wanting him to be the Troy Parrott we knew he could be. And

Speaker 1 yeah, what an incredible moment for him. He's immortal now.

Speaker 1 It's great. But you could see, even then when he wasn't scoring, there were all sorts of problems that he really has talent and really is a proper finisher.

Speaker 1 Helgerson said he would be the leading scorer in Europe this season if he hadn't been injured, which is quite something giving Erling Haaland's form. But they really believe in him.

Speaker 9 He's got six in six in the league, hasn't he, for

Speaker 9 RZ?

Speaker 9 But the thing with the finish, and I don't know whether it's just sort of happened naturally because he was stretching so much.

Speaker 9 But if you look at the still image, he seems to deliberately be knocking the ball down. And I think that's probably what he had to do to score.

Speaker 9 If it had gone horizontal or up, there's a chance that Debuss could have got a hand to it. But by knocking it down, there was no way he'd get his hand down to it in time.
I think Debus actually,

Speaker 9 I don't want to say cowardly, that's probably a bit strong, but he's definitely hesitant.

Speaker 9 You know,

Speaker 9 the sort of as a

Speaker 1 great sort of Get a goalkeeping thing.

Speaker 1 He wanted to flap at it, like with a weird double-fisted punch that goes nowhere, but that wasn't available to him and he had nothing else.

Speaker 1 Is that what you mean?

Speaker 9 I'd say there's a great sense of momentum towards the goal in that moment.

Speaker 9 Kelleher's ball in, the flick, suddenly everything is converging on that spot. You shouldn't be able to get on a flick.
Well, four yards out. The keeper should have got there.

Speaker 9 I think he's slow to come out.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter. But

Speaker 9 I think the reason why you don't see that type of goal more often is that most keepers will get out slightly quicker and be able to smother it. And maybe he just wasn't quite brave enough.

Speaker 8 Well, well done to the Republic of Ireland. I don't have a Troy Parrot story.
That's why you three are Galacticos, of course. And I'm just the water carrier amidst this group of number tens.

Speaker 8 But maybe I'll get one one day. Maybe he'll borrow my fridge or I'll borrow his Brevel.
You know, it'll all work out.

Speaker 8 Also in that group, Portugal without Ronaldo won 9-1 i mean that is intrinsically barny that is just hilarious isn't it that it was like the portuguese just went yes finally watch us

Speaker 1 yeah watch us fly um

Speaker 1 unfortunately this version of portugal may not be exactly the same version that appears at the World Cup next year.

Speaker 1 There may be, I don't know, a 10% difference in the outfield players when it comes to the World Cup.

Speaker 1 I mean, Portugal have so many good players. They really really do.
They have genuine strength in depth and just players who are really suited to the way international football is.

Speaker 1 The way so much of it is about being able to control the ball and make choices. And when the game goes a bit baggy and saggy, to be able to just eat possession and do things.

Speaker 1 When people say that England must be favorites for the World Cup, I kind of,

Speaker 1 you know, that's obviously not really an accurate view of things, but I do think about how good and how deep the talent is for teams like Portugal who,

Speaker 1 I don't know, would you back England to beat them? Possibly if Ronaldo's playing. And Ronaldo will be there, obviously.
This is a massive event in his existence going back to America,

Speaker 1 as we all know, because he's got a mate in the big office now. But yeah, they're a fantastic team.
And I don't really know who...

Speaker 1 how they deal with the problem of this relentless,

Speaker 1 the most famous man in the world plays up front. Like Like, England thinks they've got a problem with Bellingham.
Well, you know, welcome to Ronaldo world.

Speaker 1 Do you think if Team USA had to play Trump up front, they'd struggle as much as Ireland did in, and Portugal did in Ireland?

Speaker 8 I haven't read Wilson's article on whether Trump can press from the front, but you know,

Speaker 1 maybe every team should have to play the most famous person in the country up front. But then who would that be in here? I guess it would be someone I've never heard of off the internet.

Speaker 9 or paul mccartney

Speaker 8 up front like it's paul mccartney or prince william isn't it it's one of the two you know and tuchel's got to make the decision tuchel's got to really struggle you know why have you gone with mccartney when prince william is clearly younger

Speaker 1 but this would reward nations who have a young thriving vibrant cultural scene if you're the most famous person in your country is is a 22 year old yeah k-pop star or something like that yeah they're more likely to be mobile to be able to take on board lots of information.

Speaker 1 Whereas McCartney is going to be floundering.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm not sure he's going to read the flick on.

Speaker 9 It really benefits Argentina because the most famous person in Argentina is Messi.

Speaker 1 That's true. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 I mean, obviously, if McCartney does, you know, he could set up. dude Bellingham and then he could sing to him.
That would really like,

Speaker 8 he does have one song in his locker that would work well for, you know, if they were to partner up together. Anyway, look, let's end part one.

Speaker 8 Interestingly, Jim did point out that Portugal's biggest win was not this 9-1, it was a 9-0 against Luxembourg in 2023. But Cristiano Ronaldo was also suspended for that game too.

Speaker 8 The players are sending a message to Roberto Martinez. Anyway, that'll do for part one.
Part two, we'll talk about England.

Speaker 3 Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, wishing you a very happy half-off holiday because right now, Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited.

Speaker 5 To be clear, that's half price, not half the service.

Speaker 6 If Mint is still premium, unlimited wireless for a great price.

Speaker 1 So that means a half day.

Speaker 4 Yeah? Give it a try at mintmobile.com/slash switch.

Speaker 7 Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only.
Speed slow on your 55 gigabytes.

Speaker 7 If networks busy, taxes and fees extra.

Speaker 1 See Mintmobile.com.

Speaker 2 Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to.

Speaker 2 Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one.

Speaker 2 You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

Speaker 8 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So England Montuna in Albania.
You are three intelligent observers of football.

Speaker 8 What are the most interesting things that you have taken from this qualifying campaign? I'll start with you, Wilson.

Speaker 9 Well, I think Tuchel has clearly grown into the job. I was at the game

Speaker 9 when they beat Andora 1-0 away, which was dreadful. I mean, it's as bad as I've seen them play for a long, long time.

Speaker 9 And I think at that point, especially when it was followed up by the defeat to Senegal a few days later, that there was real worries then that Tuchel's idea of turning England into the 21st Premier League team just wasn't really working.

Speaker 9 But I think he realised that. I think he's changed how he approaches it.
I think the stance he's taken over over Bellingham has been very positive. I mean, perhaps Bellingham's petulance

Speaker 9 when he was substituted last night suggests there's still problems there. But England managers have been

Speaker 9 cowed by the biggest personality for years, and

Speaker 9 it's never helped. It's a bad thing.
And the fact that he feels emboldened not to pick the most famous English player can only be good, particularly when Morgan Rogers is playing that well.

Speaker 9 And it's not just about

Speaker 9 Bellingham and his attitude and his response and his behaviour and how he plays. It's about what it means for

Speaker 9 Morgan Rogers. If Morgan Rogers is playing and thinks, well, it doesn't matter what I do today, as soon as Bellingham's ready to come in, I'm out.
That's not a positive state of affairs.

Speaker 9 And Tuchel has seemingly said, no, if you're playing well and you're doing your job in my team, you stay in my team.

Speaker 9 And in terms of building a side that functions more like a club side and like a national side, that's positive.

Speaker 1 So at the very least, when england fail they'll have failed in a an unusual way and on tukal's terms yeah i mean i think everything has to be you know in context of the fact the best team england have played under touchlet is wales the whole premise this is like an absurd i'm pitching you a ridiculous movie that won't get past the first england have to win the world cup or he's been a failure i mean that's the kind of

Speaker 1 and like well it's ridiculous they don't want to win the world cup i mean they're just not nobody wins the world cup Even the people who win the World Cup don't win the World Cup.

Speaker 1 It's completely random. And it will come down to a moment of really intense interaction between tired, stretched players at a really high level of competition on a really hot day somewhere.

Speaker 1 next summer. And what we've done here may or may not be relevant to it.
I mean, managers always put in place a culture, which they hope will then be reflected in those moments.

Speaker 1 You'll be stretched in and who you are comes comes to the stage. But I'm not sure it even really works like that.
It's really confusing in many ways what Tuklis did. I can't work out.

Speaker 1 He either can or he can't handle a big player. It's one or the other.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 He's either totally intimidated by Jude Bellingham's astonishing force of personality or he's showing that he is not intimidated by that and he's handled it beautifully.

Speaker 1 It all depends on whether they win a penalty shootout next summer. And then we will retrospectively fit a meaning to that.

Speaker 1 He's either obsessed with this system, he's a Dalek, he's probably, he's German, does he speak English well enough? Not sure.

Speaker 1 Did he care enough? Obsessed with his systems, talking about eights, nine and a halfs.

Speaker 1 Or he's managed to get rid of the celebrity culture, put the club culture, the system first, which is always all depends on whether someone scores a header in the 78th minute against... We don't know.

Speaker 1 Nobody knows. But I do like him.
I like his brusqueless. I like his negging of the team.

Speaker 1 We've got the first don't give a toss manager, which is really good because generally they seem to care so much that this entire thing kind of basically scours out the inside of their brain during the period of it but you can always see what's going to kill them it's always dormant what what's going to get you is always dormant in the things that you do that are what are good um so severn was like this really super relaxed cool guy who just didn't but in the end became a disinterested wastrel who didn't who was too simple too too kind of cool too so it's always it's always pregnant within the thing you're good good at and i suspect it will come down to this sort of personality issue the bellingham issue the old problem of trying to fit lots of famous players into a team because it's a shortcut to success and we love those so it will all play out in moments next summer but you've got to like him so far i mean it's really fun you're really watchable and and i i'm a fan because we're winning

Speaker 8 And just including Paul McCartney and Prince William as well,

Speaker 8 it adds to the selection crisis that he's already got.

Speaker 8 On Bellingham, John, I read the headlines about this incredible strat before I saw it, and then it did just look like a guy who did wave his arms a bit and then just sort of walked off.

Speaker 8 It is the thing that everyone will talk about the whole time, and so you sort of have to talk about it.

Speaker 8 Then, you know, if there is constructive criticism or sort of sensible criticism, you feel, well, I don't want to be part of this massive pylon with people going, the guy's a disgrace for walking off a football pitch.

Speaker 1 Yeah, chatting to a couple of people who actually have the game, they said Bellingham was a superior option to Rogers, and so that would be the mission created. You thought, okay, that's good.

Speaker 1 That's what I mean. But then, of course, you have this moment, and yeah, it didn't look quite what you read about in the newspapers, did it?

Speaker 1 It was just one of those moments, but Tuchel himself answered the question. His quotes, therefore, fire up the story, and so you have the story going.
I mean, I did an England game

Speaker 1 a year or so ago, and yeah, there was a moment where Bellingham was subbed off because he had a yellow card. Similar incident.
And

Speaker 1 Tuchel, speaking in that very crank way that he does, said a similar thing. But now we're a period on and we've got this, the idea that Bellingham may be or may not be a problem.

Speaker 1 Therefore, it becomes more and more of a story and it snowballs. And

Speaker 1 it's

Speaker 1 the thing is, Bellingham is the most talented English player. I don't think there's any doubt about that.
Is he the best England player? No, that's Harry Kane.

Speaker 1 It's this issue of can we assimilate this guy?

Speaker 1 But the thing is, one of the issues is if England do, as Barney says, perish in a game where they're passed ragged by Portugal and they're all sweating cobs and can't move and Bellingham is sat at home in Madrid.

Speaker 1 Well, it's all going to be blamed on the fact that Bellingham was left at home. So Thomas Tuchel has to assimilate Jude Bellingham and they have to work out that problem.

Speaker 1 But we are in the press and we are going to look at those things and we're going to pick up them. And that's the game.
And that's part of the game that Tougle has to play.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I suppose the point is, you know, if we're sweating and we lose to Portugal and Bellingham is playing, then it's, as Barney sort of alluded to, then it's he actually, at the time when he shouldn't have picked him, he did pick, you know.

Speaker 8 So like, as Barney says, until we win the World Cup, then he can't win. And actually what you want, Wilson, as you kind of alluded to, is just a manager who can pick a player.

Speaker 8 And if they're not having a good game, or he wants to change the system, he can take him off and he can start someone else.

Speaker 8 And you feel like he is at least doing that, not just with this position, but all over the pitch.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I mean, the problem that always happens with, I think, any international team is you get these sort of meta-narratives developed because there's so much space between games that there's no football to talk about.

Speaker 9 So we talk about the narratives. And then every decision that's made, it's not just that...
Well, he's decided that he's a better player in this moment for this game.

Speaker 9 It's, oh, he's doing this to send a message to somebody else. And I'm not sure how much of any of it is true.
I just sort of think,

Speaker 9 I mean, leaving Bellingham out of the squad last time, that probably was some kind of message being sent out. But I'm not entirely clear who the message was going to because I think

Speaker 9 the not discouraging the Morgan Rogers of this world is also really important.

Speaker 9 It was something that struck, I was reading a thing that Alan Brazil had said years and years ago about being a squad player at Manchester United under Ron Apple.

Speaker 1 Was it?

Speaker 9 Being a squad player under Ron Atkinson at Manchester United and saying it was really dispiriting

Speaker 9 because he just knew it didn't matter what he did, he was never going to be a first choice.

Speaker 9 And it sort of occurred to me, yeah, we always look at it from the other side of the equation from a player who's been out is coming back in.

Speaker 9 But actually, the player who takes over, you have to give them something to aim for in a sense that if they play well,

Speaker 9 then they'll keep their place. And

Speaker 1 at the moment, Tukal tuckle seems to be saying to morgan rogers you're actually the man in possession you're you're the number one for now and that's that i think is probably positive is this the first time that morgan rogers has been compared to alan brazil i presume that means dude bellingham is the kenny doward leash so

Speaker 8 yeah or the ray parlor or any yeah yes

Speaker 1 jonathan's right about the the the narratives we we will forget all this stuff when the real thing happens. There was a big thing about

Speaker 1 the bomb squad this week as well, the finishers having two teams.

Speaker 1 That's the way football's going. It's like,

Speaker 1 no, it isn't.

Speaker 1 There were loads of questions to Tuchel, like, is this your bomb squad? And he's like, I'm not sure what this bomb squad is.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's a phrase from rugby, which is a totally different sport, a different team.

Speaker 1 A bomb squad for a start diffuses bombs and makes things not happen.

Speaker 1 Whereas I think in people's minds, it's the people who come on and explode the status of the game and blah, blah blah but that will not there will not be a bomb squad issue there will not be a team of fit that won't happen it's just that we do have to fill a lot there's there's too many content channels and not enough content and so also we talk about the bellingham thing also bellingham has become a much better player since i mean how good is dude is he really good has he played really well for england i i don't know um i think as far as i can tell his really extreme quality is um massive self-belief and and being good in big moments.

Speaker 1 And he's quite good at lots of things.

Speaker 1 I mean, I would dispute actually that he's England's most talented player, which I think is Cole Palmer, who I think is, in terms of pure talent, I would say is easily the best creative number 10.

Speaker 1 Is Jude Bellingham a number 10? Not sure. Don't think so.
But we've talked about him as a number 10, and Tuchel really wants a number 10.

Speaker 1 And Bellingham really doesn't seem to fit that system he described, which is, I think, the root of the problem, rather than Bellingham being like a bad guy or something. It's more that

Speaker 1 he's got that thing of he's just a very dominant personality. Not knowing your own limits, not knowing that you're not the best player in the world is a really useful thing when you're 18, 19, 20.

Speaker 1 As you get older, not knowing your limits and not knowing you're not the best player in the world maybe isn't such a great thing or such an advantage.

Speaker 1 I'd be really interested to talk to Thomas Duchill about how he just tactically sees Bellingham fitting into his team and what Bellingham is going to do.

Speaker 1 Because apart from he played really well in Qatar for England when there were two deep midfielders behind him and he was really given that freedom. He was the free player.

Speaker 1 Apart from that, he scored an overhead kick.

Speaker 1 I just don't think it's logical to put him in as one of your absolute building blocks of your team unless you're just basing it on fame, status, and which club team you play for.

Speaker 8 Harry Kaye, meanwhile, Wilson, is somebody who I think totally gets how good he is and is actually sort of deceptively better than we still think he is, even though we know how many goals he scored.

Speaker 8 He's now surpassed Pele's record of international goals, which seems like a record worth mentioning, unlike a lot of Harry Kaye's records because they happen all the time.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I mean, I'm not. Well, maybe it doesn't.

Speaker 9 I bother the Pele thing.

Speaker 9 You're comparing apples and pears. They're two different things.
It's look great. He scored lots of goals.

Speaker 1 That's the important thing.

Speaker 9 And yeah, I think.

Speaker 8 But would he get in the Brazil side in in 1970? Call us now, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 9 I mean, I think it's Tostao missing out rather than Pele, but Tostao and Pele are such a good relationship. I don't think you could do that.

Speaker 9 But where Harry Kane would fit now, I mean, it'd be a very useful.

Speaker 1 They would have won in 82 with Kane in the team.

Speaker 9 Yeah, better than Seginho, definitely. 82 is true.

Speaker 1 Stick him in the 82 team.

Speaker 9 Yeah, because the great quality he has that would have brought Shirginho into the game or Adair in 82 or Zico Socrates is he does drop off, but he would need those players to run beyond him.

Speaker 9 and that is something that Tuckle seems to have

Speaker 9 you know really be focusing on in a way that Southgate didn't overlap Euros

Speaker 9 that he you know he's he's getting the best out of Kane by having

Speaker 9 starting with Jared Bowen for instance on Sunday a player who'll run behind him Rashford as well Anthony Gordon a player who'll run beyond him he he has to have that and and that's another problem where Bellingham doesn't quite fit in this side that Morgan Rogers does run beyond him and so that means that both Rogers is running at a space that is there but also he gets the best out of Kane because Kane wants to drop into into that number 10 role so yeah Kane I think is somebody who it's not just that he's he's really good and deceptively good he's he's got better and every season he still he still seems to be getting better because he he seems to study finishing incredibly carefully you what's a harry kane penalty like in 2022

Speaker 9 His main penalty was smash it to top to the top left.

Speaker 9 He's taken that second penalty against France. He knows that Ugo Loris has played against him in training, God knows how many times.
He knows that Loris knows that, and it puts a doubt in his mind.

Speaker 9 So what's his reaction to that? He now has about 15 penalties, all different run-ups, all different finishes. Every run-up has two or three different finishes from it.

Speaker 9 It ceases to be game theory with him. It becomes just, can he put the ball in the net? He's taken the game theory out of penalties.
I don't know anybody else has done that.

Speaker 9 He's a more varied penalty taker than I think anybody else in history.

Speaker 9 And that's because he thinks about it and he works on it. And that's an incredible virtue.
It's not a glamorous virtue, but it's a good virtue.

Speaker 8 I suppose we don't know how many different penalties Kevin Pressman had because we've only seen him take one.

Speaker 1 But what a penalty it was.

Speaker 8 John, about two years after I was demanding it, someone pressed the Adam Wharton button. How did you think he did?

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. I mean, not a bad debut.
I think Tugel was fairly impressed. Dalbanier actually quite a difficult opposition, weren't they? They made it the

Speaker 1 reasonable test for him.

Speaker 1 It's one of those, isn't it, where Tuchel has so many options.

Speaker 1 But you would expect that Wharton's skill set might be that which brings the best from the players around him.

Speaker 1 It reminds me a little of Michael Carrick, how he used to play for Manchester United, which is he's not a glamorous player, but he keeps the team rolling with his movement, his passing.

Speaker 1 I am in the Wharton fan club like you. First time I saw him play for Palace,

Speaker 1 I just thought, wow, he's got it all. And he is a player that come next summer, he's going to be in huge demand in the transfer market, you would have thought.

Speaker 1 But will that be at the same time as him being an England starter at the World Cup? I'm not quite sure yet. I'm not quite sure that Tuchel is sure about that.

Speaker 1 And also, he's been a bit unlucky, hasn't he, with injuries around those England squads so that Tuchel's not really had a chance to look at him.

Speaker 1 So let's see what goes on in the friendlies before the World Cup. But if Wharton is at his best, then he's ideal for what Tuka wants to do.

Speaker 1 It's just whether he arrives in that state when they go to North America.

Speaker 8 And I suppose Elliot Anderson has the shirt

Speaker 8 and hasn't really

Speaker 1 wronged him.

Speaker 8 He hasn't played anyone else. Yeah, they haven't played anyone brilliant.
Well, Anderson has been brilliant.

Speaker 8 Barney at the back, not considering any goals in qualifying seems ridiculous, especially because, you know, the back four has not been settled at all.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think it is related to the opposition to some degree.

Speaker 1 It's very hard to kind of judge. Nico O'Reilly, who I still have a problem with his name, you've got to call yourself Nick O'Reilly.
You can't be Nico O'Reilly.

Speaker 1 You sound like, it sounds like Father Christmas is saying your name. But that's for him to deal with.
And obviously, he's always been just called Nico. Now he's got two names because he's famous.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, that's not really the issue, though. The issue is he's a really, really good footballer.
I mean, he's brilliant. I love him.
He's physically fantastic. He's so confident.

Speaker 1 He's a great guardiola footballer. But he has never been asked to defend at left back for 60 minutes against a really good France team.
He doesn't know if he's good at defending like that.

Speaker 1 He's not playing left back for a team that just finds different meanings to what left back is.

Speaker 1 So I think Liv Ramento is injured, which is a shame because I think he's a really good fullback and can play left and he'd probably be number one in that position right now.

Speaker 1 Centre-backs are great. John Stones goes under the radar, doesn't he? He's only 30.

Speaker 1 What do I want to say? Yeah, I somehow feel he should be 37 or something. He's been around for so long.
He's been around forever.

Speaker 1 But like still playing well for England, even if Pep clearly thinks he can't really do two games in a week. And alongside him, there are options.
you know, good, solid athletic defenders.

Speaker 1 We're talking about the midfield and Elliot Anderson is absolutely going to be the first choice in that position because he provides a really good screening presence and that's been a big part of it.

Speaker 1 He passes quickly as well.

Speaker 1 I think that say that Walton's got everything but the one reservation about him is physicality which I think is a real shame but unfortunately that's where we are and he is he's a slight you know nice

Speaker 1 I like watching him move because he sort of is he's not one of these super athletes you know he's he's kind of sliding around the pitch and what he loves is the ball. He's just great with the ball.

Speaker 1 And I wish that we had a kind kind of football culture and a national team where that was what everybody prizes, but it's not.

Speaker 1 And Anderson also is a really good technical player, but can move a bit better and is going to win duels,

Speaker 1 the kind of physical duels more easily. So he will definitely be ahead of him as things stand when it comes to.

Speaker 1 And that's been a really important thing in midfield because Declan Rice, even though he likes to go forward more, is also perpetual motion. And that's really helped the defence.

Speaker 1 I think England also have a really good goalkeeper, which we kind of tend to overlook slightly because they didn't play for in the Champions League or whatever.

Speaker 1 But Pickford's been really good in this campaign.

Speaker 1 But they will not have to deal with the fact that really good, they'll play really good attacking teams for the first time in three years when they get to the World Cup.

Speaker 1 And we'll see how it looks then when we.

Speaker 8 Yeah. When's the heartbreak going to happen, Wilson? What's your as we predict it on the 17th of November, which arguably is a pointless thing to do, but what do you reckon?

Speaker 8 What do you foresee? Do you foresee, you know, outbreak against Argentina in a quarter-final?

Speaker 9 I always think this is one of the most absurd things we do in football. It's like winning the transfer window.
Oh, if England don't get to the semi-final, it's been a failure.

Speaker 9 But, yeah, England had a much better World Cup in 1998 than they did in 2006, but they went out around earlier. It just depends who you play and when and how you play

Speaker 9 in that game. You know, it's Denmark, with one of the teams of the 80s, went out in the last 16 in 1986, which people forget about.

Speaker 9 It's all about...

Speaker 9 You could get a really easy run, as Ingland did in 2006, play rubbish and think you're quite unlucky to go out on penalties. Or you could play brilliantly and go out in the last 16.

Speaker 9 The round you reach is less important than how you play.

Speaker 1 They could win it.

Speaker 9 It's entirely possible they win it.

Speaker 1 I think what Max is looking for is the sort of cold place, sad moment is when that's happening, isn't it? Yeah, Steve.

Speaker 8 Yeah, when do they play cast walk away?

Speaker 8 That's what I'm thinking, you know.

Speaker 9 Well, 1996, I assume.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. Yeah, that would, yeah.
And we had to stop crying your heart out by Oasis in 2002, I think it was. Yeah.
And you just, you just want,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's that moment, isn't it, of these, you know, young

Speaker 1 sweat-drained men crying, you know,

Speaker 1 a sort of, you know, the David Seaman sobbing on the sidelines as he did in Japan. You know, those are the scenes that we are, as a nation conditioned to expect.

Speaker 1 As the outside pubs, as people hitting vapes, all agonise over why didn't we play Wharton? or I told you Bellingham was a waste of space and

Speaker 1 talk about something about like pressing high and all that nonsense.

Speaker 1 You know, pretending they know what they're talking about, like we do.

Speaker 1 You know, that that's these are the moments that bring the nation together, aren't they? Actually, winning it

Speaker 1 would be really weird and almost even though we've been to two finals, England beats two finals, is an almost impossible moment to consider.

Speaker 1 It would be very interesting if England did win the World Cup because it's one of those things where you suddenly remove.

Speaker 1 I wonder how people would react. It would be very, very hard.
I think that

Speaker 1 what would it actually mean? I mean, what would it express about English football and English culture if England did win the World Cup?

Speaker 1 I think it would reflect that the Premier League is

Speaker 1 this global league. I mean, how English is the football?

Speaker 1 How indigenous?

Speaker 1 What's it actually expressing about our culture other than the fact that we have the most successful commercially dominant league, which is now full of really good coaches and academies and a way of is it reflecting the culture of the nation?

Speaker 1 Not really.

Speaker 9 Well, except, Barney, the only thing that I'd say about that is all those incredibly highly paid, incredibly sophisticated, incredibly good coaches seem to have come around to the idea that English football from the 1980s was best all along, and that's why they're playing it week in, week out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, that is exciting. But the players on that pitch don't, you go to an academy age six, you don't play park football, you don't come in really.

Speaker 1 I mean, there are players that actually players who've come up the pyramid that way who are in the England team, and that's sort of really good and a sign of health because the Football League is still a very strong sort of grounding for players.

Speaker 1 But some people do think that having an overseas manager is pointless because what's that saying? The whole point of international football is a test of systems. How good is my system?

Speaker 1 What can I change? What can I copy from other systems? And that's its value.

Speaker 1 Whereas if you simply bring in this pragmatist who is a master of the Ralph Rangnik school, and that other guy used to watch the DVDs of SACI until they exploded or whatever he used to do.

Speaker 9 Elmer Gross.

Speaker 1 There you go. There you go.

Speaker 1 You know, if you bring that guy in, you're testing the efficiency of the German tactical school of the early 2000s which is clearly a good thing for them but it is the meaning is sort of blurred now and slightly lost and there's not much you could copy how are you going to so English football has won has won they're the ultimate Norway is now going to copy English football and try to replicate that success well you can't it's impossible what are you going to do have the world's most uh just attract all the talent destroy the every other domestic league in europe with your wealth and hire thomas tuchel you can't replicate it.

Speaker 1 So it would be a triumph for sort of hyper capitalism, I suppose.

Speaker 8 So it's good if we win it and it's also good if we don't win it. So either way, we win.

Speaker 8 And I guess, and you know, the fans of the home nation, other home nations going, look, what a ridiculous conversation. Four English people going, would it be a bad to win the World Cup

Speaker 8 six months before the ball has been kicked? This is typical of them, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Getting the excuses, you know, earlier, yeah, you won the World Cup. It was shit.

Speaker 8 Yeah. I mean, I have felt that with the finals, and I will, you know, the two finals we got to is mainly just because the boys of 66 are so deified.

Speaker 8 Because I never saw Alan Ball have a bad game because I've never seen him have a game. Whereas I have seen, you know, Jed Spence occasionally not be good.

Speaker 8 And so I think I don't know if I want these people to be on the same level as them. But it's look, it'd be a nice problem to have, and it's not something we have to worry about for a little while.

Speaker 8 That'll do for part two. Part three, we'll do all the other international stuff.

Speaker 11 Hi, folks, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

Speaker 11 You know, whether you are doing traditional Thanksgiving, a friend's giving, or something in between, Whole Foods Market has great everyday prices on all the things you need for Thanksgiving.

Speaker 11 No way antibiotics ever birds bring quality to your table at a great price.

Speaker 11 You can enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market. And remember, Prime gives you shop online and delivery or pickup as you like.

Speaker 8 Welcome to Part 3 The Guardian Football Weekly. So that was an odd Saturday night, John, for Scotland, wasn't it?

Speaker 8 They lost to Greece, 3-0 down, get it back to 3-2. At one point, if they'd scored, they'd have gone top of the group because Denmark were somehow losing to Belarus.

Speaker 8 But look, it all still means, you know, they win against Denmark tomorrow and they qualify for the World Cup. So, like, where do you have that on the possible heartbreak, possible joy?

Speaker 8 You know, who's going to be the Troy Parrot?

Speaker 1 I'm hearing Rod Stewart, you're in my heart, you're in my soul.

Speaker 8 Well, it's important for Rod Stewart because now we've just discovered he now has to play up front for Scotland when they get to the World Cup.

Speaker 1 So, well, yeah, Rod was at the boxing on Saturday. He's got a busy week ahead.
You know,

Speaker 1 I have sat, in fact, as I said, we alluded to before, I sat next to Jonathan on one of these nights of Scottish failure. And

Speaker 1 the emptiness of those around us as we

Speaker 1 it was quite something to behold, actually. As an aside, Scottish journalists, you may not know this, all wear suits to games, unlike

Speaker 1 us scruff bags in down south. Did they? And so there's a selection of besuited men looking sorry for themselves,

Speaker 1 realizing they have to book the holidays

Speaker 1 rather than go to the Euros or World Cup or whatever.

Speaker 1 Listen,

Speaker 1 Steve Clark is one of those people that we always have to say, what a good job Steve Clark's done, by the way.

Speaker 1 And he's, and it's one of those, again, and this is a classic Mick McCarthy thing of, well, if you told me that I was in this position, I would have taken it.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the position that they're in.

Speaker 1 That, you know, winner takes all or winner takes a qualification for the World Cup.

Speaker 1 They can go through the playoff route as well, is that correct? If they drop out, yeah.

Speaker 8 Well, they'll come second, won't they?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so you know, there could be heartbreak there and even more heartbreak to follow in March. So a classic Scottish solution.
I sort of feel that

Speaker 9 in international football, everybody is just sort of doomed to follow the same pattern over and over again. Probably more with Scotland, even than anybody else.

Speaker 9 And it really occurred to me: I sat next to you and Mary at the, where they lost to Hungary at the Euros.

Speaker 9 There was a moment early in the second half, and I genuinely had to sort of pinch myself to make sure I was actually seeing this.

Speaker 9 There was a spider kept falling off his desk, and he helps the spider up onto the desk, like he's like Robert the Bruce.

Speaker 9 And it's like, this is just a nation doomed to enact their national myths over and over and over again. And that means that desperate heartache,

Speaker 9 having grasped at the

Speaker 9 glory,

Speaker 9 will definitely happen. But like Robert DeBrews' spider, they will get there eventually and it'll be all the better for having had to spin that web 15 times.

Speaker 1 Was Ewan wearing a suit?

Speaker 9 I don't think he was. He was.

Speaker 9 Sorry, understandably. This is not a criticism.
He was getting understandably very sort of

Speaker 9 tense because if you remember, there was.

Speaker 9 Who was was it it was the Hungarian forward was it Varga got a terrible head injury

Speaker 9 clattered into the Scotland keeper and we didn't yeah look really really bad we had no idea how bad it was and obviously when you're filing on the whistle it's it's kind of yeah that's something you've got to get right how serious it was so that's that's what was my main memory the spider and then his his distress on the behalf of this this Hungarian forward yeah The same Varga who scored that absolutely amazing goal, which

Speaker 9 is great.

Speaker 1 Unbelievable goal, wasn't wasn't it?

Speaker 8 Meanwhile, Wales, they beat Liechtenstein 1-0,

Speaker 8 so made pretty hard work of it. They need to beat North Macedonia to have a better chance of

Speaker 8 getting an easier route in the playoffs.

Speaker 8 But obviously, we all hope they

Speaker 8 and North Macedonia are, quote, no mugs.

Speaker 8 So,

Speaker 8 and they've had a very good qualifying campaign, so it will not be easy. And they're missing Jordan James and Ethan Amberdou, both suspended.
So, it will be tricky.

Speaker 8 Well, I'll tap up Ellis James for a Barry-style voice note.

Speaker 1 Barney, Norway at the World Cup.

Speaker 8 It'll be fast. I think Haaland, you can see Haaland just going, this is my time.
You know, big man, big man, big man. Sorloth, Stratton Larson as well.

Speaker 8 But like, Haaland, just feel like he could just decide to be brilliant this World Cup.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, his international goals record is mind-boggling. It's, I think, something like 53 and 45 or something like that.

Speaker 1 It's changing all the time because he's constantly scoring goals, even when they're not playing. Somehow his goal record is going up.

Speaker 1 I guess the issue is they're really front-loaded in the talent. Not that that's really the worst problem to have.
And also, we have to talk about the heat, don't we?

Speaker 1 And I guess playing their style may be difficult. or more difficult in the heat.
But I think they're definitely, I don't know if they're even dark horses, they're just horses.

Speaker 1 They're medium-colored horses, just neutral horses, because they're really good. And Haaland has come on so much.

Speaker 1 It's almost as though being coached by Pep Guardiola every day for years might be a way of improving your all-round game.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 he looks sensationally good.

Speaker 1 He's still, we've been able to see his speed more, you know, which he always had, but they don't play in that ridiculous swarm of possession where he's just surrounded by 20 players. And

Speaker 1 it's great to see that Dortmund-era Haaland back again. It's just this terrifying

Speaker 1 nightmare Viking Terminator, which I, for one, am all in favour of. I think that you're meant to say at this point, no one will want to play them.

Speaker 1 But there's quite a few teams you wouldn't want to play, but you probably definitely wouldn't want to play them because he will score.

Speaker 1 I watched a bit of this game and it struck me that Norway had better players than Italy in this game.

Speaker 1 The Norway's players are actually

Speaker 1 higher class in Italy. And I know there's a big

Speaker 1 in Italy, there's a, you know, they're going through their

Speaker 1 moment of national shame of how poor they are at turning out players that England went through, say, 20 years ago. And apart from Esposto that scored the goal, you know, Barello and people like that.

Speaker 1 But you look at the Norway players, like they had Noosa, fantastic player in that game. He was brilliant.
Great goal. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sounder Birch, who plays for Fulham, was smashing up midfield.

Speaker 1 It was, you know, and I Editor plays for

Speaker 1 Brentford. These are Premier League players, and you're thinking, well, this is why Norway are very good now.
And it's taken a while to get them together.

Speaker 1 But this actually is a team, as Barney says, that you wouldn't want to face. And then Haaland didn't do anything in the game for ages.

Speaker 1 Then suddenly, in a matter of minutes, just explodes and then can just retreat.

Speaker 1 I've done my bit now and a player like that is just something that

Speaker 1 italy the italians haven't got a striker they they they're hoping esposito can be this guy i was listening to the commentary and they said they're even comparing him to lukatone and i thought lukatone's a good player but he's not earling ireland is he

Speaker 1 he definitely is not

Speaker 1 I saw Lukatoni play in

Speaker 1 Dubai once when he was sort of out there playing in that league. and I have never seen a man just shed so much liquid.
It was just incredible.

Speaker 1 He was basically just, he was like a one-man sprinkler just running around this thing.

Speaker 1 It was incredible

Speaker 1 to watch. And yeah,

Speaker 1 I don't know if that's really the model for the modern day professional.

Speaker 8 I did like, you know, Italy needed to win 9-0, didn't they? And they scored quite early. I think it was DeMarco ran into the net to get the ball to get back together.

Speaker 1 That was incredible.

Speaker 1 Just in case.

Speaker 8 I admire that optimism. Croatia qualified.
So Luka Modric will probably play in his fifth World Cup quiz time then.

Speaker 8 Any other players that have played in five World Cups?

Speaker 9 Matthias.

Speaker 8 Correct.

Speaker 1 Antonio Carbahal.

Speaker 8 Yes, very good. Mexico.

Speaker 8 There are two other Mexicans.

Speaker 1 But I can't remember their names. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Marquez.

Speaker 8 Marquez, yeah. Correct, Marquez, John.

Speaker 8 And Andres Scuadado.

Speaker 8 and then, well, Messi and Ronaldo, presumably, if they play in the next World Cup.

Speaker 1 And they will become the first to play in their sixth to just show that they were never going to be pulled apart. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Right, so they've done five already and now in their sixth. Diar Congo qualified for the World Cup after knocking Nigeria out in a penalty shootout.

Speaker 8 Wilson, you are sort of our African football expert on this panel.

Speaker 9 Well, Diar Congo have been sort of a coming force for years and they keep on missing out the last. And they've been really, really good in this qualifying campaign.

Speaker 9 They were 2-0 up at home against Senegal at half-time and ended up losing it 3-2. And that's the only reason why they're in these playoffs.

Speaker 9 If they'd held on to that, it would have been Senegal in the playoffs. And they've got a really good side.
I mean, Noah Sadiki is maybe the sort of standout Premier League player there.

Speaker 9 They miss Wissa, obviously, so they've been a bit short of goals recently. They were much the better side in this game.
Nigeria have been terrible.

Speaker 9 Their players went on strike last week, two days before the semi-final of these playoffs against Gabon over unpaid bonuses. And they got a lot of criticism.

Speaker 9 People say, oh, yeah, it's a wrong time to go on strike. But when are you going to go on strike?

Speaker 9 You know, if you're not being paid, and it seems the Nigerian government had released the funds, it hadn't been passed on for by the Nigerian Football Federation.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I think at some point the players have to take action. This probably was the right time.

Speaker 9 And the truth is, they're not very good, so they probably weren't going to get through the confidential interconfederational playoffs next March anyway.

Speaker 9 So I think it's good for football that DRC have got there.

Speaker 9 It went the penalties.

Speaker 9 A classic penalty shootout where Nigeria missed three of six and DRC missed two of six.

Speaker 9 But yeah, there was some kind of contretant on the bench.

Speaker 9 Eric Schell, who is a Malian, who is Nigeria manager, and he was a pretty controversial appointment in that Nigeria think they should have either a Nigerian manager or a European.

Speaker 9 They don't understand why they have a manager from another African nation. And Eric Schell with Mali, I was never quite sure whether he slightly held Mali back.

Speaker 9 They did quite well under him, but they were quite boring. And Mali previously had never been dull.
And I think this Nigeria had been desperately dull.

Speaker 9 But he was getting very, very worked up about something going on on the bench.

Speaker 9 He said there was some sort of liquid being sprayed about by one of the DRC staff, which he described, and this is his word, voodoo.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 9 mariboos, which are a sort of

Speaker 9 syncretism between local spiritual beliefs and Islam, are very big in Mali. I was in Mali in 2002.
I met a Maribou.

Speaker 9 He gave me a terrible tip for who's going to win the World Cup, so I wouldn't necessarily trust them. But it is a big part of Malian culture, so whether that's something to do with it, I don't know.

Speaker 9 And after DRC had converted the Chancellor member, former Newcastle player, after he converted the decisive penalty, Shell runs and tries to attack whoever it is on the DRC bench.

Speaker 9 and sebastian de Saab the the french coach of uh of drc who looks a lot like the actor mark bonner he ends up having to sort of yeah hold him back and then yeah shell came out in his uh sort of post-match briefing and he was accusing drc of voodoo so

Speaker 9 not really sure what was going on but i'm i think it's good that drc have gone through and uh you know i wish them well in the intercompetitivational playoffs next summer and i also hope drc play nigeria and a couple of nations in January.

Speaker 8 So that

Speaker 8 just finally, that intercontinental thing, so who's in that?

Speaker 9 Every confederation apart from Europe gets a place in it. CONCACAP gets two places.

Speaker 9 They're divvied up into there'll be two semi-finals. So the two higher seeded teams get by to finals.
There's sort of two competitions go on. There's two semi-finals.

Speaker 9 The winner of the semi-finals goes through to the final to play the seeded team. And whoever wins each of those two finals gets a place at the World Cup.

Speaker 9 So New Caledonia are there, Bolivia are there, DRC are there, and I think we're still waiting on who the CONCACAF teams would be and who the Asian team will be.

Speaker 1 Has this taken the place of the thing where Uruguay would always play Australia and they'd have a fight? Yes.

Speaker 1 I missed that. That was one of the great World Cups.

Speaker 1 You knew the World Cup was coming, didn't you? When that

Speaker 8 sad socceroos again knocked out because fireworks being set up outside the hotel at 3 a.m. in Montevideo.
Anyway, Paul Watson's on on Thursday, so we'll flesh that out a bit then.

Speaker 8 But thank you, everybody. That'll do for today.
Thank you, John.

Speaker 1 Thank you much.

Speaker 8 Thank you, Barney.

Speaker 1 Thanks. Bye, everyone.

Speaker 8 Thanks, Wilson.

Speaker 1 Cheers. Thank you.

Speaker 8 Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

Speaker 9 This is the Guardian.