A nine-goal thriller at Fulham and Romero rescues Spurs – Football Weekly

This is The Guardian.

Hi, folks. It's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

Whole Foods Market is your holiday headquarters with everything you need, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner, with show-stopping centerpiece means like bone-in spiral cut ham or bone-in rib roast or even king crab.

And if you want to take a few shortcuts, no one is looking looking after all, try the heat-neat sides from the prepared foods department.

Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters.

Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Xero. That's X-E-R-O.

With our easy-to-use accounting software with automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed U.S.

customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Zero with an X or visit zero.com slash ACAST to start your 30-day free trial.
Conditions apply.

Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, Fulham 4, Manchester City 5. What happened there? City 5-1 up, scoring with almost every attack, but 5-1 is a notoriously difficult scoreline.

And what a shame that Josh King's 98th minute toe poke didn't make it over the line for the most unlikely comeback still lots of fun and then to St James's Park one of the worst overhead kicks of all time from Christian Romero but an overhead kick all the same earning Spurs a point not losing seems huge for Thomas Frank especially after a controversial penalty all we want is consistency Clive a good win for Everton too at Bournemouth who aren't quite as good as Bournemouth normally are there's a World Cup draw to look forward to and then David Cond joins us as the families of those who died in the Hillsborough disaster have said it's a bitter injustice that no police officer will ever be held accountable for a catalogue of failings set out in the final report of the police watchdog after a 14-year investigation.

There will be no justice for the 97. This is the Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glenn Denning. Hello.
Hi Max. Welcome Will Unwin.
Hello Max. And good morning Johnny Lou.
Morning. Now let's begin at Craven Cottage, shall we? Fulham 4, Manchester City 5.

And I suspect like a lot of people, Barry,

I was watching Spurs Newcastle and then I saw it was four and I was sort of flicking between two and it was four-one so I sort of gave up on Fulham on this game until someone in the WhatsApp group mentioned this is a bit lively and I was like well nothing there can't seriously have been any jeopardy in this game but what a ludicrous sort of well the whole game was ludicrous but that comeback was mad yeah bonkers I mean Sod's law dictated that this was the game to which I devoted the least attention while the games were actually on.

I, in an act of masch schism, sat through Bournemouth. Neil Everton won in its entirety, but

they were flat given the updates from Craven Cottage. And when Manchester City went 4-1 up just after half-time, like you, I thought, well, that's it, it's done, dusted.
But a brilliant comeback by

Fulham in a game that had nine goals, and most of them were bloody good goals.

I think Docu's spawny, deflected shot was probably the worst of them. I've ranked them in order of what I think were the best.
Interesting, so have I. Okay.
Okay.

Well, I will go with Chukueze number two, Iwobi, Foden number one, Haaland, Smith Rowe, Rinders, Foden number two,

Chukueze number one, and Doku. Wow.
Okay, I've gone Foden one, the outside of the box into the top corner. Smith Rogue, because it was a diving header, two.

Iwobi, Harlan Rinders, Chikwaze first, Chiquesi second, Foden second. Doku is the worst.
That's my ranking. Right, so we're agreed Doku's was the worst.
Yes, we're agreed. We're agreed on that.
Yeah.

Ian says, was that the best Kevin-inspired comeback since the gerbil helped revive TVAM?

There is something, Johnny, about a home crowd when they feel a comeback is on. You know, almost like the opposition are just sort of helpless.
There's nothing anyone can do.

This is just going to happen, even if it ultimately didn't.

Yeah, I mean, there's this great camera shot, I think, later on, you know, deep in injury time of the Fulham fans, and they're all like, they're all having so much fun.

I think, you know, you go to a game like that, you're expecting Manchester City to win.

You're not expecting too much out of that game in terms of points. But I think every fan who was at that game is going to remember that forever.

That's one of those games that, hey, do you remember when we came back from 5-1? And they'll remember that more than, you know, most of the the wins that they'll have this season. It was

a really startling kind of comeback or a great moment. I think the key moment, underrated key moment, is

when Nico Gonzalez comes off. I think Gonzalez comes off at either 5-1 or 5-2.
He comes off.

And he's an underrated sort of player because, you know, partly because he's not the best, you know, he's not even the best Nico at City.

And also, there's another, he's arguably not even the best Nico Gonzalez in football. But he's been really really quite important for City in the absence of Roderick.

And they bring him off the stones. And I think if he's on the pitch, I don't think those last two Fulham goals happen.

I have a theory about Cities defending, which is that if you look at how a lot of those goals are being scored, I think they are almost trying to pace themselves a little bit too much across the season.

And I don't think

there's enough aggression in the, like, I don't think there's enough aggression from them in the first phase of defending.

They are letting teams have a lot of shots around the box.

If you look at, they're taking an extra touch in the box, if you look at how Nunez, you know, Nunez against Leeds, where Calvert Lewin gets in, there's just a little bit of, I don't want to say laziness, but there's a little bit of laxness to them.

I don't think it's tactical so much. I think it's the fact that

Guardiola is so clearly trying to pace them for a long season physically that

I think some of that is seeping into

their technical defending as well. DWZ says a City fan here.
Is it normal to feel angry after a win? You're a City fan, Will.

Do you think, you sort of think think if it's 2-1, they don't, it doesn't, if they're 2-1-up, it doesn't happen.

Like, 5-1-up, I mean, you can't say it's a dangerous scoreline, but there is something about 5-1 where whoever you are, you just think, well, this is done.

Yeah, a few cigars might have been brought out and lit up in the defence. I mean, it is problematic that Matthias Nunes can't defend.

And Pep keeps going on about how he could be one of the best in the world. And I'm not quite as confident as him in it.

Every time that someone got it on the wing, and there there's numerous people, they just knew that they had him and you know, easy crosses into the box.

And I think just the general sense of panic there,

that's what's frustrating. You're supposed to be, you know, arguably one of the best sets of defenders, expensive, Diaz, Guadiol, really, really good defenders.

It's just constant panic, just trying to get the ball clear in the end. And, you know, Guardiol admitting he's watching the clock.
It was... I mean, it was mildly embarrassing considering

what's available, that they just couldn't cope. And I was expecting

an equaliser for quite a while because you weren't really getting out, apart from then inexplicably Gavardiol having one cleared off the line himself, because that's what you want your sense about doing in the 90th minute.

See, getting through on goal, because everything's all right the other end, I don't need to be there, it's fine, I'll just get up the pitch. So, yeah, and it has been quite consistently bad.

You know, as you mentioned, Johnny mentioned against Leeds, some of the errors that led to goals there with Nunes again just terrible defending Guardiol for the penalty.

They just don't look confident.

Guardiola keeps saying he can smell good things are going to happen this season but I think unfortunately the overriding smell of shit in the defence might be problematic for him eventually.

Upside is forwards look all right at the moment. People other than Haaland are starting to score because prior to the weekend it was Haaland had got 14 and everyone else that had scored had got one.

So yeah, Foden's fine in some form. Doku obviously adding a goal to you know looking a very dangerous player on the wing is helpful.

But yeah that defence doesn't scream title challenge at the moment in josh king and chaques barry i mean fulham have two of the most exciting young players i've seen for a while josh king has made such an impression this season that i now no longer do a double take when i hear his name being mentioned as a fulham player thinking it's the other josh king he's a very exciting player Has he got his goal yet?

I know that was a thing for ages.

He kept scoring his first first Premier League goal, and then

they kept being disallowed by VAR or being offside or whatever. So I don't know if he's got that yet.

It's a milestone for him to look forward to, like the milestone Haaland reached last night. He is really exciting.
Chuckueze is a really exciting player. Kevin, I think,

did start really well.

not playing as well as he had. I'm not sure how many opportunities he's had.
I thought the two goals Chuckueze Awezi got last night were really good, really high quality.

I don't know much about him, I must confess, but

he is

a delight to watch when on for. Yeah, he is.

Yeah, his first, especially, was a brilliant finish. Maybe I was wrong to put it down at number six behind Reinders.
I just liked the move from Haaland to Reinders. On Haaland's

100 Premier League goals, Johnny, quicker than any other player. So he's got it in 111 games.
Shearer got it in 124. Harry Kane, 141.
Aguero, 147. And Thierry Henry, 160.

We are witnessing history here, Johnny. The stat that I saw was that

if you look on the list of the

100 club, as it was in the Premier League, his closest challenges are

the guys he comes up next are Cristiano Ronaldo and Didier Drogbert, who I think a lot of people would have in the conversation for greatest Premier League forwards of all time.

They've played more than twice as many games as Erling Haaland. Erling Haaland is literally twice as good as them.
I mean,

in terms of his goal rate, you have to go back to guys like Dixie Dean and Brian Clark, like Jimmy Greaves doesn't get close.

That's how good he is. Now, you know, a lot of factors you can talk about.
You can talk about cities' financial dominance. You can talk about state ownership.

You can talk about economic stratification.

You can talk about the greater protection that strikers get from referees in the modern age.

But

talk about that stuff to a certain point.

At some stage, you just have to say, this guy is a real, genuine, one-of-a-kind player with an absolutely unique set of skills and a set of circumstances that are perfect for him.

And by the way, a very impressive fitness record as well. Yeah, he's good, isn't he, Barry? Yeah, I mean, for the tape,

the whole of the Lou family came in during that answer.

And

a bit like one of those News 24, you know, someone's doing a serious bit about, you know, the bonds market in Japan and then, you know, just like children running in the back, in the back.

So, you know, I, I, they, they are, we are now on video, Johnny. I don't know if you she's just draped me with a, with a, okay, a Chinese banner.
Yes, I mean,

that is true, what Johnny says, isn't it, Will? I mean, it's sort of when, and it's interesting that Harlan still has

not answered everybody in how good he is. And I don't know if that's ridiculous.
I'm just pleased I locked my daughter in a, in a padlock room earlier, so I should be safe for this answer.

Yeah, I mean, you still get a lot of the nonsense around, oh, he only takes nine touches a game, and you know, he's not as involved as he should be.

I mean, as anyone in football will tell you, the hardest thing to do is to score goals, and as it transpires, he scores a hell of a lot at an incredible rate.

That's all you can do. I mean, it doesn't matter what else you're doing in the game.
It's not his fault that the rest of him can't defend or anything like that.

And it should be pointed out, he did get a really good assist last night with what he can do, you know, hold off the defender, spin, turn, lovely ball through.

He's not like a complete one-trick pony. It's just his job is to score goals and he does.
You can't really criticise the rest of it when your scoring rate is so incredible.

And the thing is about him, I mean, the only disappointment probably is that last night should have had more, through one goal, hit the inside of the post header, hit the post.

But yeah, incredible player. You speak to anyone about him, incredible work rate, commitment to football, et cetera.
He's, you know, he's not just living off natural talent.

He puts the effort in, he knows what he's doing, he gets better every season, which is quite impressive considering, you know, what's gone before.

And he just has it and he has that, puts that fear into defenders.

And the defenders are actually quite worried that he's not involved in the game because you don't know where he's going to pop up next.

You think you sort of got him under control and then the next minute he's gone, he's through, you know, he's out jumps you, whatever, because they've sort of think, ah, it's all right, we've got Erling Cab.

His concentration levels are, are something

I've not seen in a striker.

When you're not getting service, even that you can just sort of drift out the game, and people think he drifts out, but he's always involved, he's always trying to do something, and eventually it comes off pretty much every game

as the stats show. Without wanting to detract in any way from Erling's achievement, I feel I should stick up for players who applied their trade in the top flight before the Premier League began.

Sunderland's Dave Halliday got his 100 goals in 100 games. Some debate, it might have been 101, but it was certainly fewer than 111.

Dixie Dean got his century of goals in 105 games, and Arsenal's Ted Drake did it in 108. So Haaland, for me, Clive, is fourth on the all-time list, not top.
But

there you go. Noted.
Let's go to St.

james's park newcastle 2 spurs 2 absolutely terrible first half a kind of all right second half between two not particularly good teams newcastle were a bit better johnny had more shots but didn't create all that much spurs only had two shots on target so i mean i guess for thomas frank just not losing is enormous after the week they've had yeah it was it was a huge moment and a a huge moment that happened in very slow motion.

I mean, Romero,

he is so pumped after scoring that first goal, that bullet header at the near pose, getting ahead of Dan Byrne.

And when he scores the 95th minute equalizer that saves a point and very possibly, you know, saves his manager, he's almost a little bit embarrassed about it.

Obviously, everyone's mobbing it because as you see on the replay, it comes off his shin. It is one of those moments that you think, how has somebody, how has somebody not cleared that?

It goes through two or three Newcastle players who are probably expecting it to come a lot quicker than it does. And these are moments that

potentially turn seasons. I think Frank has, I think, attracted quite a lot of unfair criticism for, you know, some of the performances have been bad, but

I think the

calls that you see people saying he's out of his depth or that he's been found out, which I think is very premature. Spurs have not been playing well.

I think there are a lot of mitigating factors there. Most of all, I think, actually, you know, people talk about the injuries to the front ball.

I think the midfield is just not anywhere near good enough to protect a defense that you would say on full strength is a very, very strong, you know, one of the best defenses in the league, certainly one of the best centre-back pairings, but they are not getting the protection from the, you know, Bentoncourt and Sara are not giving them the protection that they need.

And so they are getting exposed. You know, they are, they're conceding, again, a lot of shots from,

you know, dangerous areas. They're not defending the edge of their box well.
But this is, you know, they did show a little bit of progress here.

They were rocked in the early part. I think they came into it, played some quite a good football towards the end of the first half.

And then Newcastle were then basically able to, they brought on, I think it's Bruno at halftime, and they brought on Adney Gordon and Elanga.

And, you know, the strength of those reinforcements, they were able to change the energy of the game.

Ian says, any chance Dan Byrne can open the batting at the Gabba this week, watching him leave Romero's overhead kick was exactly the technique Zach Crawley

needs to adopt. Carl, is it possible to get a negative rating on the Trevor Sinclair spectrum? As Kieran says, as you mentioned, has an overhead kick ever been slower than Romero's?

I mean, I suppose, Barry, he does well to get up, doesn't he? He's on the floor, he gets up, and then but it is just the amount of time it takes to go in is sort of hilarious.

Yeah, his technique was good, but he it was undeniably a shinner and it bounced on its way in. But it seemed to he got lucky insofar as

there was just this narrow gap in a crowded penalty area, and he managed to steer, unwittingly, I suspect, steer the ball through that gap.

I don't really know if Aaron Ramsdale should have done better or not, but it did look like

just everything slowed down as this ball poodled inexorably into the back of the net.

and look it's the fourth minute of added time not really the time to to debate the quality of the goals and this look of all the newcaster players were sort of looking at each other going how did that go in

but it did and um

they they will be gutted over that i'd say anyhow it was sick you know because

the newcaster should have won that game i think do you know when a defender or someone doesn't score very often whacks one in from sort of 25 30 yards and for the rest of the season, the fans, when he ever gets the ball in that position, just shout, shoot.

I think whenever Romero's up for a corner now, there should just be sort of chance for a replica of that overhead kick.

Because

if he can do it there, you know, you can keep doing it. I think that could be his trademark, the sort of, you know, grandmother overhead kick I like to describe it as.

The other big sort of moment from this game is Newcastle's penalty. Benton Killer on Dan Byrne.
I know I'm not objecting to this, but not even the Newcastle Pairs really appealed for a penalty.

T says, after over two years of Arsenal pushing and barging on every corner, why does the referee clamp down on pushing and barging start with penalising Spurs for it? I mean, that's not quite fair.

There have been others. I did look at Dale Johnson, who knows the laws of the game.
He says, obviously, there's a question of consistency over holding decisions.

For me, with the current guidance, including no mutual holding, because Bentico has absolutely zero interest in the play and only opponent, means this is a fair var intervention.

But, Barry, I'm not sure I agree. I think Dan Byrne is holding.
It's not a headlock. People are saying he's got Pentacles head and a headlock, but he's holding his head.
I don't know.

I thought this was really, really harsh. And that sort of consistency thing, you sort of think.

In fact, even on Monday's pod, we were basically praising the Chelsea defenders for doing this against Arsenal. No, I don't think we were.
Okay. My initial thought was it was a penalty.

And the more I look at it now, the more I think... No, it wasn't.
I think it was very much six to one, half a dozen of the other. But I think it was probably given because

benton kerr initiated the the pulling and dragging and because the ball was heading towards the area where dan burn might have got it if his he hadn't been impeded but i do concede that it did look by by the end of it burn had him in something of a headlock and his momentum appeared to cause both of them to fall over.

But in terms of consistency, this happens all the time when coroners have been taken and it's hardly ever punished.

Yeah, I was surprised it was given, but I think you could argue, yeah, it was depending on which team you support, you could make a decent case for it being a penalty or not being a penalty.

Does anyone remember the Daily Mail's short-lived hands-off in the box campaign?

They ran

over several back pages, maybe about 10 years ago, ago,

the scourge of defenders grappling in the box has to be, they got Dermot Gallagher, I think they got Martin Keogh, and they got a lot of

prominent names in football to denounce this.

I don't think it was a penalty because I don't think Romero has full control of himself. Sorry, Benjenko,

I don't think he can get out of Dan Burns' headlock.

He couldn't look at the ball if he wanted to. But I think on a more general point, everyone says, oh,

you've got to police this you know, this grappling in the box. It gets out of hand.
I think

one of the consequences of that is that if it becomes harder for defences to deal with

a set piece, you end up with the stultifying set piece ball that we've seen in the Premier League this season because...

teams simply see it as an opportunity to create chaos and and they know that the regulations the current regulations will be on their side so it so that for me is is reason enough to to I think, give a lot of this stuff a bit of a pass.

Yeah, I don't know what you think. Well, I just sort of think it just is so much harder for the defender because obviously if an attacker commits a foul, it just doesn't matter.
It's a free kick.

And so it's just so weighted.

And as Johnny says, you know,

he can't get out.

At one point, he's like, he's, you know, if the phrase is, he can't look at the ball because he's in a headlock from the attacker, you sort of think maybe it shouldn't be a penalty.

Yeah, you had Jamie Carragher on Sky said it wasn't a penalty. Jonathan Woodgate was on the radio saying it wasn't a penalty to two of the best centre-backs

over the Premier League probably know a bit more of what happens in the box than a lot of people. Yeah, but isn't that very much defenders union?

Because that's three centre halves, ex centre halves now I've heard saying it wasn't a penalty. And but their centre halves, of course they think it wasn't a penalty because they

mean Dan Burn would think it was a penalty. Yeah, so four.

Dan Bird just got up and went,

if you like, can have one.

I'm not too fussed. Let's see.

I think if you look at it, it's a bit of grappling. You know, I think Benson caused problems.
He gets wrong side

at one point, so it looks a bit worse. But I mean, as you say, I think it's just a one of those where it's a dangerous game if they're being given, especially on review.

If it's given by the referee and he doesn't change his mind, fine, etc. That's the mad thing.
It's like, how is that reviewed?

How have they sent to Ruby? Anyway, I just want to ask Will a question on Newcastle, which you should think of really firing Newcastle as they were against Everton, you know, win that game.

Like, and they're just not... Tottenham are not quite at it, sure, but Newcastle aren't quite at it either.
I mean, they were quite at it in the second half. You know, those changes, you know,

did create a bit of momentum, a bit of energy that was completely lacking.

I mean, without Bruno Guimara's in the starting lineup, Newcastle don't win in the nine games he's missed, you know, over a lengthy period.

They've not won a single one, which shows that he's quite important and probably

more important than Tenaliam. Maybe he should be on the on the pitch from the start.
I know it's a difficult schedule, et cetera. But also,

I think the game in general at the start, Newcastle were more positive and then it sort of settled down into absolute dearth.

But then Gordon is another one who hasn't been at it all season in the Premier League. turns up in the Champions League, so fair play to him, did really well there.

But I think Newcastle's got to hope that's a a turning point for him coming in and making a big impact, looking dangerous throughout.

Really cool for the penalty in quite difficult circumstances.

Where obviously it went on for a long time, and then even after that, it was sort of the bizarre situation where he did take the ball originally.

And then Voltavard got involved, and then he got the ball back.

But you know, it was always those sort of comical situations: no, no, I'm taking the penalty. No, no, I'm taking.

I think it's just a team in Newcastle that are really finding the schedule quite difficult because of the squad. Yeah, it was just another deft, it was just another deft assist from Voltamark.

Anyway,

that'll do for part one, part two. We'll begin at the vitality.

Hi, folks, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

Whole Foods Market is your holiday headquarters with everything you need, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner with show-stopping centerpiece means like bone-in spiral cut ham or bone-in rib roast or even king crab.

And if you want want to take a few shortcuts, no one is looking after all, try the heat-neat sides from the prepared foods department.

Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters.

When you think of skyrocketing brands like Aloe, Allberts, or Skims, it's easy to credit their success to great products, sleek branding, and brilliant marketing. But here's the overlooked secret.

The real magic lies in the engine behind the scenes, the business powering their business.

For millions of brands, that engine is Shopify, making selling seamless for them and shopping effortless for us. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Aloe Yoga uses.

Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/slash retail. All lowercase.
Go to shopify.com/slash retail to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com/slash retail.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Michael says, How pleased was Barry with his Declan Rice Zinger at the FSA Awards? Yes, we are the champions.
Thank you to everyone for voting.

Don't ever let us down again.

You were there, Barry. You brought the house down with your victory speech.
Well, it's not really for me to say that I did that. It seemed to go down well.

It wasn't so much a speech as the hostess, Victoria Derbyshire,

asking me questions and then me proceeding to answer completely different ones.

But I got a dig in at Declan Rice, who won Player of the Year and turned up to collect his award in person, which is always nice when a player makes the effort to do that.

It's not always possible for them to do so. Alesier Russo won female player of the year, but she was busy on England usually, so she couldn't be there.

Really good night put on by the FSA again, as always.

And this year they did it in the the most awful circumstances

because the FSA

chief, Kevin Miles, who sort of starts the evening each year with a kind of state of the nation address, was absent because his son very tragically died last week.

So that kind of put a downer on the whole evening. Kevin's a lovely bloke.
His staff at the FSA are lovely, lovely people. They're very tight-knit.

So for them to be able to put on such such a good night in those office circumstances was

hats off to them, I suppose.

It was a good evening, nonetheless.

Our thoughts go out to Kevin, who's a friend of the show, of course. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, wonderful guy. And you have our deepest, deepest sympathies.
Back to the Premier League.

Bournemouth-Nil, Everton won. Andrew says, Bournemouth look lost right now.
Could they get dragged into relegation trouble?

Barry, you, as you said, sat through the whole of this game while the entertainment was happening elsewhere what did you make of it it wasn't great i have to say bournemouth are in a real rut now they've lost four and drawn one of their last five games they started this one quite well they had a couple of early half chances then everton started to take control both teams missing a that killer final ball anthon semenya had probably the best chance of the first half but was denied by by pickford everton had a series series of corners at one stage where it looked like they might score.

Alex Scott headed on to his own bar. Thierno Barry was denied by a combination of the post and Petrovich in the Bournemouth goal.

Bournemouth had a goal disallowed for offside, Croupy goal disallowed for offside, but it was a pretty poor first half.

The second half, Thiern O'Barry missed another decent chance after a ball ricocheted his way. He was denied by Petrovich.
And the goal from Grealish

took a horrible deflection that completely wrong-footed Petrovich. I'd say Everton probably just about deserved to win.
It wasn't a good game.

The one thing I did notice in this game is Jack Grealish, Iliman Njai and Kiernan Dewsbury Hall, Everton have a brilliant front three, you know, operating behind Tierno Barry, but they seem to have just completely given up on Barry and they're almost operating as if he's not there on the field.

Much like we do on this pod, I guess. Yeah.

Very good. I don't want to pick on him because Beto is no better.
I think Beto has got one goal this season Tierna Barry still hasn't scored.

Yeah, I very much get the impression that those three are working the other subject. Look, let's not give the ball to him because he is not going to do anything.

And the chances that did come his way, one was from a ricochet and one and the others were from corners.

So, yeah that that's kind of interesting to see and you wonder how good everton could be if they had a decent striker but they don't and they need one i just think i think that was barry had his first shot on target of the season last night which isn't there so he's getting there he's getting there he did have a goal disallowed um at the weekend i think yeah that's true yeah adam did say who will score a premier league goal first barry or barry i mean you know barry has a better chance but you never know barry might make it johnny as the world cup draw on Friday.

You wrote a big piece about Gianni Infantino's quite cozy relationship with Donald Trump. Are you looking forward to the peace prize and the draw itself?

Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting one, isn't it?

We used to look forward to, I mean, World Cup draws used to be

so much fun. I guess a lot of people will still have fun.

Oh, yeah, I'm still looking forward to, you know, all the groups and all that stuff. You know, that's fun.
Yeah, the pots and the and the permutations.

I've just had an email drop into my uh to my account from FIFA, from the FIFA press press office, saying star-studded entertainment lineup announced for the final draw.

Global icons Heidi Klum and Kevin Hart.

Live performances from Andrea Obacelli, Village People, and global music superstar Robbie Williams. So

you know, I'm sure a lot of people will have a good deal of fun, but obviously

it is hard to escape the shadow of the fact that it's taking place at the Kennedy Center in Washington, which is one of those institutions that has pretty much been Trump-washed.

He's installed himself as the as the president or the chairman or something and

installed board members that are all Trumpists and turned it into

his little opera house. The fact that even now six months from the tournament, we're not entirely sure which cities are going to be hosting which matches because

Trump is still threatening to take games away from cities. He's threatening to invade co-hosts and Infantino is chuckling along when he jokes about it.

It is a World Cup like no other. And I think for a lot of people

who like the World Cup because it's almost a little bit of

a change in pace, a change in tone from

the rest of football, it is increasingly beginning to look as chaotic as everything else, to be honest.

While I'm looking forward to the draw, I'm looking forward to the tournament, I won't be going next summer. And I'm not envious of anyone who is, frankly, to be honest.

I find a lot of this really quite distasteful and hard to get on board with. We're going, aren't we, we, Barry?

Yeah, good luck. I mean, good luck.
Good luck in the queues. Good luck with ice and, you know,

good luck showing them your social media accounts and,

you know, and how much stuff costs out there. Like, you know, it's a price gouging exercise.
A parking space, a parking space at the final is going to cost, I think, £150.

That's even before you get onto ticket prices. And are people in America really going to want to pay thousands of pounds to watch, you know, it was Becker Starn against

Cameroon. Did Cameroon even make it?

You know, or you know, Jordan against Sweden or whatever, or if they make it. So, yeah, apart from that, it's going to be great, I guess.

We forget it's in Canada and Mexico at the same time, don't we?

You know, and Infantino sort of hasn't really has certainly spent significantly less time, if any time, with, you know, the leaders of those countries.

And that issue about price gouging is, you know, this is how FIFA, this is how Gianni maintains his power, right?

Because this is how fifa get their money and then they dole their money out to uh you know other you know to to

the the people that support him the village people that support him by the sounds of it

they don't come cheap i mean i think it's all worthwhile if it gets the village people back up and they all still go in the village people you know they still they save a lot on accommodation well of course they do but can they all dress up like that I mean, I'm sure they can't do mummy and maybe, but who knows?

We'll see. They're all working for ICE now.
They've got a lot of the uniforms

god imagine if me and barry try and get into the states we're taken down by the construction worker from the village people and we're not allowed in we're kept in solitary for six weeks uh anyway being in solitary for six weeks during the world cup would be like an extended version of skies the box

they just come out and show us the world yeah see who won someone lifted the world cup we'll be like what yeah harry kane holding the world cup and i'm just going right let me back in there

and throw away the key, please.

Anyway, that'll do for part two. We won't be laughing when they play this to us as they're throwing it, as they're throwing us.

You joked about it. Here you are, sonny.
Boom. Anyway, just on a loop.
Exactly. I'll know.
This is what they play sitting there back and forth.

Me and Barry talking to each other, going, You think this podcast is good? You won't by mid-July. Anyway, that'll do for part two.
We'll be back in a second.

Take control of the numbers and and supercharge your small business with zero. That's X-E-R-O.

With our easy-to-use accounting software with automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed U.S.

customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Xero with an X or visit zero.com/slash ACAST to start your 30-day free trial.
Conditions apply.

Hi, folks, it's Mark Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

Whole Foods Market is your holiday headquarters with everything you need, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner, with show-stopping centerpiece means like bone-in spiral cut ham or bone-in rib roast or even king crab.

And if you want to take a few shortcuts, no one is looking after all, try the heat-neat sides from the prepared foods department.

Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Now, the families of those who died in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster have said it is a bitter injustice that no police officer will ever be held accountable for a catalogue of failings set out in the final report of the police watchdog after a 14-year investigation.

We will never get justice, said Charlotte Hennessy, whose father James died at the age of 29. Nobody's ever going to go to prison for killing them, so we'll never get justice.
And we knew that.

Margaret Aspinall, mother of James, who is 18, another victim, said, it really makes you very, very angry when you think of all those 97 who died, unlawfully killed, and yet no one's been held to account.

To me, that is a disgrace. Some of the officers, including Peter Wright, the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police at the time of the disaster, have died since.

Margaret Aspinall said, how lucky are they to have died in their own home, not traumatized. like we all were.
The youngest who died at Hillsborough was 10. How lucky are they to grow old?

I am so angry with their response. David Conn is the Guardian's investigations correspondent, has covered this story for many years.
Hey, David. Morning.

I mean, I guess that is the headline, isn't it, David? That there will be no, you know, justice for the 97. That is the phrase that we have heard time after time after time.

And there will be no justice.

Yeah, that is the outcome. That's what this outcome is.
I mean, what they've done here is it's the police watchdog called the Independent Office for Police Conduct. And they have done,

as you said, a 14-year investigation. So it started in 2012 after the Hillsborough Independent Panel report, which completely changed the narrative, which beat back

that police,

the false police stories against the Liverpool supporters, that somehow they misbehaved and that was a cause of the disaster, which has been comprehensibly demolished. The IOPC has been investigating

these areas of police responsibility for the disaster,

for the false narrative that the South Yorkshire Police mounted after the disaster to deflect blame catastrophic failings.

I mean, this is 97 people killed at an event that the police were responsible for

managing safety, where they were responsible. It's under the noses of

the police that 97 people could be killed at an FA Cup semi-final and then they couldn't accept responsibility in the subsequent,

well, at all, but you know, in the subsequent inquiries that followed. And it forced, and because of legal failures,

see, one of my big points, Max, is that the focus is all on the police and it should be. And this report was by the police watchdog.

But it is the job of the legal system and the courts to actually sift out what's true, to dispense justice.

So the failure to actually dispense justice and to leave the families with this like unbelievable, like ludicrous outcome. So the outcome, first of all, it should never ever have taken 36 years.

You know, they shouldn't be having to deal with any sort of official process about this terrible disaster and this terrible loss that they suffered 36 years ago, a whole generation ago.

I mean, you know, the reporter who we sent from our manager office to the press conference yesterday wasn't born when Hillsborough happened.

And this is what I've tried to stress in some of my coverage: that it's also failures of the legal system that have failed to hold people accountable, failed to dispense justice, left the families with this really quite ludicrous contradiction that 97 people have been unlawfully killed, but nobody is responsible for the unlawful killing.

Right?

And

the legal failures are the reason why it's also taken so long, because they did a miscarriage of justice at the first inquest in 1991.

And when people have grown up with the campaign for justice,

as you said, justice for the ninety-six as it was, justice for the ninety-seven as it's been since 2021,

what they were campaigning against was that first inquest verdict of accidental death in 1991.

And the judges, this is a big thing of mine that I really want people to understand, because it's one of the lesser known parts of the story.

They went to the High Court in 1993 to try and get that overturned, and the judges just dismissed them. So they were forced to fight that first inquest for another 19 years.

And that's like taking up everybody's time, taking up everybody's life, traumatising everyone, keeping this terrible disaster, you know, so central in the lives of everybody.

They always said, we can't grieve, we can't move on.

And then it took this process in 2012 to finally get the inquest quashed, which I was there that day, which the judges did in 2012.

And I said in one of my pieces, you know, and it just took an hour and a half. And it was like those 19 years of agony had never been caused to the families.
Yeah.

And also just for those families who, you know, don't have, you know,

at the time are dealing with such grief and such tragedy.

don't have recourse to all the things you need to fight this right like like how do you find who do you talk to where's how do you get the legal processes to understand?

You don't want to have to deal with any of that at the start and for so long as well. And their fight has been sort of unbelievably brave and like sort of heroic in a way.
Absolutely. Absolutely.

It has. There's another way of looking at that, Max, which is that's how hard it's been

for the Hillsborough families. That's how much of a battle they've had to fight.
relentlessly for 36 years and they haven't got justice at the end and they were denied justice.

You know, the second inquest verdict, so the inquest was finally quashed. Then the new inquest started in 2014, which was supported by this, the IOPC investigation and it lasted two years and

you'll all remember it. Finally in April 2016, because it's all taken so long, sometimes the dates run into each other.

They finally got this historic verdict from that inquest that the 97, as it is now, were unlawfully killed due to gross negligence, manslaughter by the South Yorkshire Police officer in charge, Chief Superintendent David Duckingfield.

And they were specifically

asked, did any behaviour of the Liverpool supporters contribute to the disaster? And they specifically, explicitly said no in a verdict.

So therefore, there is a legal finding that no behaviour by Liverpool supporters contributed to the disaster. And I was there a lot at the inquest.
And all the family's lawyers did.

You you know, they had to fight this false narrative again for two years. And it was very, very traumatic, the inquest.
And do you know what they did to disprove the police case?

They just played the video. You know, it was all on television and it was all on film and different CTV.
They just played it and everybody could see that nobody was misbehaving, nobody was.

noticeably drunk, but you are allowed to have a drink before a football match. And

that the disaster was caused by catastrophic police mismanagement.

So, that was 27 years

from the disaster that they finally got the correct

truth and the verdict established by the legal system.

But then there's been no accountability for that, and that's really what this report said, which is another nine years on. Right.

But another way of looking at that question that you asked me is, this is a group of people who've had such a terrible battle and had such obstacles put in their way getting justice from the British legal system and from

English police forces, right? But actually, they were incredibly well-resourced compared to many, many families who are fighting injustice. There actually was a large number of them.

They almost had a whole city behind them.

They certainly had the support of Liverpool football, you know, they're part of Liverpool Football Club, essentially, which is one of the most high-profile and influential and, you know, well-known institutions in the country.

And yet, for families like that, it's been such a struggle, and it's 36 years without justice.

So, think about just a lone family fighting a terrible injustice with no publicity, with no support, with no resources at all.

And it makes you fear that there's a huge amount of injustice in the system that

isn't being acknowledged. It said that 12 officers would have been charged with gross misconduct.
So why can't they be in if they've retired? The police rules at the time that they served.

And that's always been the rules for them at the time they served. And Duckenfield himself retired on the grounds of ill health.
He was actually supposed to face disciplinary proceedings in 1991.

And he retired on medical grounds and never faced any charges and neither did the other superintendent who was going to be charged. These police officers who have

disgraced themselves,

many of them are senior, they let this happen, then they lied about it.

Statements, hundreds of statements were altered. Does the fact that I presume these guys are living in, the ones that are still alive are living in disgrace and are pariahs.

Is that any consolation to the families? I don't think we really know how they're living and I don't think the families feel that they are living in disgrace and pariah, you know, and as pariahs.

I think some of the

comments that family members made about that

issue after the report was published was more that they feel like they've had comfortable retirements on full police pensions, and that the point about never facing accountability is

that

there hasn't been accountability.

I think that some of the families, they said that there is some, you know, they recognize that there is some strength in naming these people now and in saying that some of those people,

that 12, there would have been 12 gross misconduct cases. And,

you know,

it did really hit quite hard that they're saying that the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police, Peter Wright, who was a towering figure in the 1980s, you know, who, I mean, that was a very, very powerful police force that had defeated the miners' strike in 84, 85 in a very brutal way.

And for Peter, and Peter Wright oversaw the whole campaign and led the whole campaign to deflect responsibility and to mount this false narrative against the Liverpool supporters.

So to name him and say that he would have faced a gross misconduct case is quite a strong historic finding for, if you like, the story of what's happened here. But Peter Wright, I think, died in 2011.

I mean,

he passed away, he's been passed away 14 years.

So

there's no actual accountability. David, thanks so much for coming on.
And thanks for your tireless work on this story as well. We really appreciate it.
That'll do for today's pod. Thanks, David.

Thank you. And thanks, everyone else.
Cheers, Johnny. Cheers.
Thanks, Barry. Thank you, Goo.
Thank you, Will. Cheers, Max.
Football Weekly is produced by by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.

Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with zero. That's X-E-R-O.

With our easy-to-use accounting software with automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed U.S.

customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Zero with an X or visit zero.com slash ACAST to start your 30-day free trial.
Conditions apply.

Hi, folks, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

Whole Foods Market is your holiday headquarters with everything you need, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner with show-stopping centerpiece means like bone-in spiral-cut ham, or bone-in rib roast, or even king crab.

And if you want to take a few shortcuts, no one is looking after all, try the heat-neat sides from the prepared foods department.

Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters.