[UNLOCKED BOCO] Gotham

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This is us reviewing the pilot of Gotham.

Emily,

this is like one of your Alzheimer shows, right?

Am I characterizing that correctly?

In that

I actually watched this all the way through.

Yes.

Yeah, I'd say so.

I love this this show.

People really love to hate this show.

And I totally understand why in certain instances, but I have so much fun watching it.

So

I hope y'all will too.

I will say that I get the like Tubi mass emails like, hey, check out this week on Tubi.

And they have the top 10 shows.

Gotham is always in the top 10.

No shit.

So

I don't know.

I think maybe you're not alone, Emily.

I think there's Gotham freaks out there, and I think they are not paying paying for their streaming services.

Yeah, we hide in the shadows.

But we are among you.

Gotham fans walk among you.

They could be your neighbor.

They could be the baker and no one else.

So this is Gotham.

If you want to hear more like

that.

That's true.

Classic guy you see in the neighborhood.

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Okay, enjoy Gotham.

It's free with ads, the podcast that asks the question: why pay max 10 bucks a month for a bunch of Batman movies when you could go on Tubi for free and watch a show that doesn't have Batman, but does have a little kid who is going to be Batman in like 10 years or something.

So here's some mafia stuff.

I'm Jordan Morris.

And I'm Emily Fleming.

Today's pilot is Gotham, the best adaptation of any DC Comics thing ever.

Full stop.

I will not be entertaining any arguments stating the contrary.

Thank you very much, everyone I've ever talked to.

So this is our bonus episode where we talk about TV pilots.

Emily, this is Gotham.

This is one of your like all-time faves, would you say?

I love this show.

I had the privilege of auditioning for this show once and bombing really bad, but I loved it so much.

It's clear that it didn't have the rights to all of the characters, and they couldn't use the Joker.

There was a lot about that later in the show.

They had to kind of use the people's real names, like Selena Kyle and, you know, Edward Nigma and stuff.

Yeah, let's give the setup for this show a little bit.

It is a kind of a Batman prequel.

It is about like the Commissioner Gordon.

Yeah, Commissioner Gordon is the main character.

Yes, played by our main dude from VOC.

You know, I've never seen an episode.

I haven't either, but I know him because everybody was hot and bothered by him.

But he's a very good actor, but he's like a

rookie cop now, a detective in Gotham.

And it's him dealing with the crime, early crime, which is the mafia stuff in Batman, which I didn't know anything about until this and then the Batman came out and they're focusing on that as well yeah fun fact yes Matt that actor you're talking about his name is Ben McKenzie I

not watched Gotham or the OC

but he has written a book about how cryptocurrency is a scam cool

okay it's a fantastic book uh and i suggest that everybody read it well that's rad because I like him as an actor.

I think that this was a great role for him.

I think this pilot is a killer.

I think it's one of the best, like non-comedy pilots I've ever seen, and people hated this show.

I just love that he, you know, is a hot guy from TV who was like, I'm going to do a pivot into doing like,

you know, economy journalism.

And he wrote an amazing book.

It's called Easy Money, Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud.

It is really fantastic.

But also,

when you're hot, the pivots are easy because you have confidence.

You're just like,

no one's ever told me no.

I'm going to do something else.

And then

you get those pivots.

And he wrote it with Jacob Silverman.

I just want to shout that out.

No idea who that is.

Silverman is crazy.

I don't know either.

I also really like, because I'm a big fan of Batman the Animated Series, Jordan and I.

I think we both share a love for that.

But in the animated series, I think I remember Harvey Bullock being part of that.

Yeah, there was, yeah, yeah.

So

young Jim Gordon is teamed up with Harvey Bullock, who in the Batman cartoon and the comics is always the crooked cop.

He's the one who

dances with danger.

He flirts with the mafia.

He's the lead, the cranky, pragmatic one.

But in Batman the Animated series, I just saw him as a grouch.

I didn't know he was considered to be crooked, but but I love this actor.

It's Donal Logue.

Yeah, Donald Logue.

This is fun casting.

This is a really fun casting.

I like, he's one of those, that guy from that things and always.

Oh, yeah.

Grounded for life.

He's like, and Sons of Anarchy.

He's very funny.

He can also do dramatic acting.

I will say something about Gotham, the casting in this show.

is top fucking notch, even with Jada Pinkett Smith, which I think a lot of people had controversial, like, you know, opinions about her acting style.

I fucking loved it.

Yeah, she's she's doing the right thing.

I mean, I think that like

the show at this point, and I've only seen the pilot at this point.

And like, I think the like the show is figuring out how comic bookie to be.

And like pilots are awkward and they figure out the tone later.

And I think that like...

Everyone is on a little bit of a different page as to how comic booky this is going to be and how like big it's going to be.

And is this like grounded procedural?

Is this something a little campier?

And I would be fascinated to see like where the show goes and like which of those tones it picks.

But here it does seem like some people are like, this is law and order.

And some people are like, this is something soapier.

Anyway, well, it's true, but I think the thing that helps with distinguishing that is the cinematography and the set decoration.

The way that the police station looks is so ornate.

The police station is in a very beautiful building.

Let's start talking about it.

So we open on a young girl with goggles.

I think if you kind of know this stuff, you're like, that's

it.

Selena Kyle.

She's got the goggles.

She's a kid.

And she's stealing.

She's doing a pickpocket, but instead of picking a wallet, she's stealing milk.

She steals some milk out of a shopping bag and goes and gives it to a cat.

So if you were wondering whether or not this was Catwoman, this lets you know that you were probably right.

This is probably a little girl.

I think it's important to say that some of the villains or the suggested villains in this show are adults, young adults, and some of them are straight-up children around, I'd say, 12 to 11 years old.

So the Selena Kyle character is like a, you know, little street rat orphan girl who's probably 12.

And so is Bruce.

So is some of the other people, but then others are young adults.

Yeah.

So after this milk heist, she goes into an alley.

This is probably good old crime alley, and she sees the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne at the hands of a guy.

If it's the comics, he's Joe Chill.

If this

show decides it was someone else, it was someone else.

They don't show his face, so they're like, we're going to leave that open.

We're going to figure that out later.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and then, you know, we see the pearls.

We see, you know, young Bruce.

Great

killed.

Great actor.

That kid when he screamed on his knees and everything.

Yeah, that's a big, yeah, that's a big, that's a big scene for a kid.

And then, so this happens.

You know, we, we, we are now well aware we are in Batmantown.

So we go into the police station, which, as you mentioned, is very beautiful.

It's a beautiful old building.

I don't know if this is like a practical set or a,

you know, if this is an actual building somewhere, but it's really, really cool looking.

And we see rookie Jim Gordon.

There's a crazy guy going crazy in the police station.

And he's like holding the gun on one of the cops.

And Jim Gordon gets like some aspirin.

And he's like, I have your pills, the old fake pill trick.

And then the crazy guy kind of gives up the gun.

And then the other cops start beating this guy up.

He tries to kind of step in and say, like, hey, maybe don't beat this guy up.

So I think we're, you know, they're trying to get around the like ACAB problem here.

They're trying to say like, this is a good cop.

This is the, you know, guy that finds the non-violent solution.

So, yeah, which is, you know, I'm sure a tough thing about doing a cop show these days is you have to kind of like get around that.

And I think this is their like trying to say that, like, he's

a good dude.

This show,

because it's a fictional city with fictional, weird characters and mafias that are, they have, they get to take liberties with portraying crooked, dirty police work versus like being a good cop.

And I don't know.

I think that this first episode did a great job about his, like,

I think, character growth, Commissioner Gordon's character growth.

I really like it because it's not the real world.

It's Gotham.

But I liked it.

I think it's, he's a rookie.

He doesn't know anything about Gotham.

As we know, Gotham has a prison and they have a mental institution that is almost worse than any other prison.

And that is Arkham Asylum, it is a big part of the Batman lore.

So, Yeah, so

it's,

as we mentioned, cranky old Harvey Bullock and fresh-faced, optimistic Jim Gordon.

They get partnered up.

They don't like each other.

They're at a diner.

Bullock is pouring metamucil into his coffee, a great like hardened cop move.

Just, I'm fucking done.

I got an ulcer.

And so they get confronted by these like internal affairs people.

One of them is,

I recognize from the comics is Montoya, who is a big comics character.

She is from a series called Gotham PD, which I think this was trying to be a show of.

So they take some characters from that series and put them in here.

She's fun.

She's cool.

And so she's like, I'm on to you, Bullock.

She knows he's like crooked.

And,

you know, so

the hunt is on for the crooked cop within Gotham.

Now I'm going to look up Gotham PD.

Oh, GCPD.

Yeah, it's really great.

It's a great series written by the Great News.

Never heard of this.

Wow, I'm going to get into this.

Sorry about that.

Go ahead.

Yeah, it's neat.

They were trying to make this.

I think this is what they've been trying to make the GCPD show for a long, long time.

And I think that's what this was.

I think that's like it turned into this.

So yeah,

and it's so funny.

He does the thing that people on TV shows and movies do that you never see in real life when you need to introduce someone to the audience, they go, Well, well, well, if it isn't,

and then the person's name, what if you, what if someone actually did that to you?

Think about like if the next time you went into the office and someone's like, Well, well, well, if it isn't Emily Fleming, obviously,

podcaster, just to be like, Lay out your wire.

Yeah,

well, well, well, that is exactly why people say that.

Yeah, there's a wire, it'd be a really funny way of finding out that you

have

like dementia is if you say well well well if it isn't jordan morris and they're like it it isn't i'm is that who i am

am i that yeah or that too

like and it isn't and then you're just like oh oh you're not honestly though at the rate my adhesive

yeah at the rate my adhd is deteriorating did you guys know that when women go through menopause their adhd gets way worse Oh, I didn't know that.

It's going to be bad.

You're going to have to talk to me like that.

Every time I get onto Zoom, you're going to go, well, well, well.

If it is ever the time I'll record another episode of our movie podcast, free with that.

I always think that there's another version of that in screenwriting that I want to do to my sister the next time I see her.

I always want to go like, hey, little sis, what's up?

Like,

people in movies are always doing that.

Like, hey, cousin.

Hey, do you call your cousin?

Tested exposition.

How's it going?

Yeah.

Hey, person the audience doesn't know.

Here's who you are.

But honestly, that is how I would write.

I think I'm a bad writer.

It's like, how do you do, you know?

You guys, I'm not good.

I like,

listen.

Emily just throws away a script that's literally titled, Well, Well, Well, if it isn't.

Bitch, you think I've ever written a script?

I have about five different scripts that are just the first title page.

I got a script.

I got a script for Adderall.

You want it?

So I think, you know, I think what we're seeing here is like

pilots are so overnoted.

And I think that's one of the things that, like, that's just a dumb fucking note that you would get if you were writing this.

It's like,

the audience doesn't know who they are.

And you can't just not know who someone is for two lines.

You know, so anyway, I think this is like shit that note givers make writers put into scripts.

Anyway, they do it.

It's fun.

So Gordon and Bullock are fighting.

Gordon calls him a slovenly lackadaisical cynic.

So crazy.

That writer was writing hard.

Yep, there's some hard writing in this show.

And for the most part, I really like it.

There's some like awkward stuff and there's stuff that like.

Yeah, there's some stuff like the well, well, well that seems like a little bit expositiony, but like

minute-to-minute dialogue in this show, I think, is really good.

I do too.

I do kind of like, did you guys, when you were kids, did you watch the Flash live-action show that happened in the 90s?

Oh, I did a little bit.

Um, yeah, I did too, and it scared the shit out of me as a kid, and I keep thinking, I think I'm scared of everything.

Um, you're scared of fast things, you know, like anything to be fast things.

Hercules,

or a robot that's in water, yeah, I know.

We just talked about, yes, robots of water, fuck me up, okay?

Anyway, I am.

I don't like cakes outside.

I hate that song, MacArthur Park, because someone left a cake out in the rain, and I got it.

Pretty scary.

I don't like it when dogs are upstairs.

I died.

Don't.

Dogs are for downstairs.

What if when they go down the wood stairs, they slip and die?

I don't know.

You're right.

You're right.

No, I think everything I think is true and justified.

Yes, I think.

Anyway, but

the The Flash had like a 90s show, and I remember it being his suit is still bright red and stupid, but there was a lot of violence and scary shit.

So it's like that juxtaposition of comic book language.

Right.

And then like actual scary scary shit.

And then crime and violence and stuff next to each other, which to me feels like when I would read a comic book.

Because

comic books, at least Batman, the, I remember the illustrations seeming a lot more dark and kind of jagged and rugged and less colorful and bubbly and pretty.

Yeah, the Batman comics when we were kids, it had already turned into like this

brooding guy.

Because I was, you know, the only comic books I own are Generation X

from the X-Men thing, and Jordan knows this.

Yeah, I saw a big stack of them at a thrift store near my house.

Jordan!

You didn't get me them?

I'll grab them the next time I'm there.

Please, I'll pay you up to $50.

Whoa.

That's a lot, maybe.

I don't know.

But I did, I've accepted that Batman is both camp and ridiculous and sexy, as well as dark, serious, and fucked up.

It's just both.

I think the show does a great job.

There's a great, a great,

a great host, writer, guy, Glenn Weldon, wrote a book about Batman that I love.

Glenn Weldon's book about Batman is called The Caped Crusade.

And

he kind of talks about that thing you're talking about, Emily, is that Batman has been around so long and there are so many different Batmans.

There's Adam West, there's Christian Bale, and they're all a little bit different.

And, you know, I think Batman kind of is an example of nerds who want something to be one thing, and then when it changes, they get mad.

So I think that's kind of like what the book is writing about.

It's very

fascinating book.

But I think I recommend it to everybody.

Out of all of the,

at least for me, growing up, and of course, we're 80s, 90s, 2000s people.

So our experience of comic books is vast in a very short amount of time.

Like things really went from zero to 100 when it came to movie and television with comic books in our lifetime.

But I always felt that Batman was dark.

I always felt like Batman the Animated Series as a kid.

Maybe I have a lot of spiritual stuff related to Batman.

I think

about like,

I don't know, mental health is like a big thing in the Batman saga.

Right, yeah, sure.

That I think is why I feel more emotionally affected by anything Batman-related than I do anything Marvel-related.

It just feels a little bit more purposeful in a way.

I mean, and my Batman growing up was Adam West, so I'm fine if he wants to dance and if he has a spray that solves everything.

Oh, no, I watched that show like crazy.

I loved it, but then when the movies came out, I had no problem accepting that this was another version of it yeah it's always weird to be when people are like i do not accept this other version it's like cool don't fucking watch it there's all

versions for everybody yeah dorks are weird anyway if if somebody fucks up um i don't know i'm trying to think of what somebody could fuck up the princess bride if somebody remakes the princess bride I won't do anything rash, but I will be very sad.

Listen, do whatever you want to.

Just don't make it woke.

Just don't make the...

No.

I don't know.

I think Princess Bride is pretty woke.

It is pretty woke.

I'm being

fake conservative.

He's playing a character.

Much like Batman when he puts on the cowl to strike fear in the hearts of criminals.

I would love it if Batman put on his mask and then was just like, I'm going to be one of those, I hate cancel culture guys.

You can't say anything on college campuses.

You can't talk to women anymore.

You can't talk to you.

Why did you show up up and you can't hug your co-workers.

Jordan, you just sound like scruff McGruff.

You know what I mean?

Take a bite out of cancel culture.

You can't take a bite out of crime anymore without the people saying ACAB to me, right?

All McGruffs are bastards.

Hey, Mab.

Amazing.

So I can't shoot my gun at someone having a mental episode anymore, apparently.

All right.

It's a big deal.

That's why I got into this business, to shoot whoever I want to.

Anyway,

so

we kind of meet the other Batman characters that they're going to play with in the show.

The Riddler is their

ballistics guy.

That's fun.

That's a really fun

Edward Nygma.

And he gives them little riddles, and they're annoyed with him That's good.

He's also cute so cute.

Yeah, I like that I like the casting of all the villains is a lot of fun so good Gordon Bullock they're looking for the guy who killed the Waynes they go to fish moony Yeah, so Jada Pickett Smith plays fish moony I don't know if she has precedent in the comics or if she's for this show but I don't know either but I remember going oh penguins eat fish There's the metaphor kind of thing.

Yeah, so the penguin is like her lackey in this.

Yeah.

Like the one and he's like scheming to take over her criminal empire.

And she is scheming to take over the criminal empire of Carmine Falcone, who is like a long time Batman, just kind of a pretty, kind of a generic gangster villain that pops up.

And the actor who plays him is fantastic.

Yeah, he's great.

He's at the end of this episode.

He's so good.

So there's this kind of like mafia struggle going on.

Fish Mooney, beautiful bar.

Another, just a great like bar you would want to hang out in.

There's some burlesque dancers on the stage while they're doing the like shakedown in the bar, and they're just warming up.

They're just stretching.

They never dance in this whole thing.

They're just on stage limbering up.

So they get a lead on

who killed the Waynes.

They're looking for the necklace.

They're looking for mom's pearl necklace.

They go to the house of this kind of random deadbeat.

His kid is Poison Ivy.

She's like, oh, you're Ivy.

And she has like green on, and they've got a bunch of plants in the house.

But I think it's important to

say that she's in a family environment where she tells the detectives, you don't want to talk to my dad.

He's a bad man.

And she's clearly, like, kind of poor.

Her clothes are dirty.

She doesn't look like she's eaten.

She's just a little red-headed girl.

You don't know what her deal is yet.

Yeah, so she, so they, this guy, like, runs for it, and

Bullock and Gordon chase him down.

Bullock kills him.

And so the idea is like, oh, we got him.

We got the guy who killed the Waynes.

No, they didn't.

Montoya is on to him.

She knows that they, she thinks that somebody, like, framed this random dude and like planted the necklace.

So she's out there looking for the like Wayne's real killers.

We go back to the, to Fish Mooney's very, very cool bar where

the limbering up burlesque dancers have been replaced by a comedian.

This is our first kind of like, this might be the Joker.

They picked the most normal looking guy to be this guy.

This is the most normal man I've ever seen in my life.

Okay, so Jordan, can I, I know this is just the pilot, but I would love to talk on that for just a second.

So yeah, so you were, you were telling me that like they tease various jokers that never like actually materialize, right?

Yes, because they did not really have the,

I don't know everything about like how this works with ownership over characters and what can be done or whatever, especially this at the time of this show coming out, I believe it was 2013 or 14 is when it came out.

They could not say Joker.

They could not have that character.

But what they did was tease multiple, like, maybe this is him, maybe this is it, maybe this is it throughout the entire series, even to the point where it seemed like it was this guy.

And then this guy has a twin.

Is it this actor that is on stage doing this?

Absolutely not.

No way and fuck.

It takes a couple seasons for, I think it's season two that there's somebody that you're like, oh, this is, this has got to be

the Joker.

But I think the message of this show, which I did like, is that there is no such thing as one Joker.

Joker is a movement.

Right.

So I think

that's like in the history of the character.

Yes.

I think they've tried to explain his backstory a couple times in the comics, but it's never good.

Just like keep the fucking Joker a mystery.

I love that.

Exactly.

And I think what's a better mystery than who is the original Joker?

So if you have someone who has the scars and they go, let me tell you where I got these scars, and they can never give you that message, then does it mean that anyone really is the Joker?

Like, why does it have to be one guy?

Like, so

they use this as a device to kind of deal with kind of not having the rights to the Joker, but I found that to be so fun throughout this whole show.

Towards the end, it gets a little loopy, a little kooky.

But no, this guy is not at all, but he's trying, they're trying to wet your whistle with it.

Sure.

For sure.

It's fun.

It's a really fun aspect of this show is the kind of like teases and the characters who you know are going to become other characters.

It's a ton of fun.

Oh, wait.

I have a thing to tell you, though.

Sure.

So I was talking earlier about how some of these characters exist as children and some are young adults.

I just wanted to, you do meet these characters throughout this episode.

So Penguin and Edward Nygma, young adults.

They look like they're maybe 30 years old.

And then you have Ivy, Selena Kyle, and Bruce Wayne, and they're kids.

They're probably anywhere from 11 to 13.

Paul Rubin played the Penguin's father

in Batman Returns.

He plays Penguin's father in this fucking show.

Does he?

That's great.

He plays the same character with like a lot of.

I think that the mom is the same, too.

I think they brought back the actress.

And the house looks very similar.

So there had to have been some conversation with the, you know, of Tim Burton crew or something.

But it was so cool to see Paul Rubin come back as that character.

So that does happen on this show.

I'm just telling you.

Love it.

Love that.

So yeah,

we kind of like get the penguins betrayal.

He's he's rubbing Fish Mooney's feet.

And then she reveals that she knew that he

ratted her out.

And then they fight.

She says, you broke my heart.

A little reference to the godfather too.

A little mafia betrayal.

So Bullock and Gordon, they get captured and thrown into like a meat locker.

Then the Carmine Falcone comes in, just randomly kind of kills everybody.

Talks to Gordon, said, I knew your dad.

His dad was a DA, and they like had a mutual respect.

So that kind of like sets up their relationships that's going to go forward.

But it also suggests that maybe the people who you think were honorable before you got got there, including the Waynes, that you get in a lot about like, so it feels like Gordon and Bruce Wayne's stories throughout is them realizing that people aren't as good as they thought they were that came before them.

Yeah, so he, so Bullock tries to get Gordon to kill the penguin.

He does a little trick where he like walks him to the edge of a pier, of the pier, shoots the gun near him, and pushes him in the water before whispering, never come back to Gotham.

And so that, you know, so we see that he's a, you know, he doesn't want to kill.

He's a, he, he's a, he's a decent man.

He's going to regret that, though.

And then he goes, then he, yeah, I'm sure, right?

Yeah.

He's like the big bad of the show.

Yeah.

I wish I killed him in the pilot.

Anyway, no, he's just really annoying.

Oh, right.

It's Penguin's annoying as fuck.

So he goes back to like young Bruce Wayne's house.

Alfred is there.

We should say Alfred is here.

That's a, that's fun to see Alfred in this.

I forgot.

He's fucking hot.

Hunk watch.

We don't have hunk watch for these, but that actor who plays Alfred.

Jesus Christ.

It's hunk watch.

There you go.

They even did a spin-off in 2019 about Alfred.

It's called Pennyworth.

Pennyworth, the story of Batman's Butler.

But it's about him being younger, and it's not the actor who played Alfred in Gotham.

That's what mama wants.

That's what mama needs.

Like, I just want to see him going to bars and hitting on people.

That's like...

That's all anybody wants.

That's all anybody wants.

That's the show we want.

That's what I desire.

Never get to Batman.

Just make it Alfred hanging out in bars.

Yeah.

Yeah, so he

goes back to Wayne Manor.

He tells young Bruce that, like, we...

We don't think we actually found your parents' killer.

The killer's still out there.

And then we get a little teased.

The penguin comes up from the river.

He takes a knife and kills a random fisherman and eats his sandwich.

And that's the like final, that's the final shot of

the pilot.

And that's Gotham.

Yeah, let's do it.

Let's rank this show on a scale of one to ten Super Loud commercials.

Emily, you've watched this show in its entirety, but do you think this is going to start a rewatch for you?

Give us your ranking and then speak on that.

It's a 10 for me, and yes, it is.

I've already watched the second episode.

I love it so much.

I know it gets a little weird,

you know, and it...

The first season to me is a blast.

It feels like watching the animated series again, but as an adult, there's a lot of sexy stuff going on,

a lot of representation with sexuality in this show, too.

And you find out that, you know, Barbara Keene is bisexual, like in this episode.

So yeah, this is, this is, that's kind of a fun thing that I noticed from reading the comics.

You know, that Montoya likes the ladies, and they have just this weird little moment where it's clear they have a history.

And I'm like, ah, haha, I bet that happened.

Her character, I keep watching just to watch the loopity-loo crazy shit that happens with Barbara.

Yeah.

It is a little wild,

but I still like it.

I like that actress.

I like every actor in this.

And that includes the, I think Jada Pinkett Smith is kind of going for this more

1960s Batman over-the-top character.

She is, yeah.

She's going big, and it's a lot of fun.

But I like it.

I think that she's having a blast.

You could tell she's having a blast.

I enjoy her, the aesthetic of the character.

I like the way the show looks.

I think I just love the show and people hate it.

And I, it's okay.

There's five seasons of it, so somebody likes it.

Yeah, exactly.

But nobody would speak up when I was at a party.

So

shame on you.

Yeah, I'll go.

I like this.

I thought this was a lot of fun.

I'm going to give it a seven, and I'm kind of curious to like, I'm curious to go down the hole a little bit more.

I think DC does a fucking great job with its TV.

Now, am I on the payroll?

Yes.

Consider the source, but

I think that DC TV is awesome.

And it's that thing we're talking about.

It's just that like, you can do so much shit with these characters.

Why

relegate it to one?

hyper-specific tone.

I know it's like, you know, kind of futile to compare DC and and Marvel, but we've been doing it since the dawn of time.

It's kind of hard not to.

You know, I think the Marvel TV stuff just doesn't work as well because like

it's just this little not-as-good version of the movies.

And it's like, and they do try and add a little horror sometimes, and they do try and add some other little spices, but

it all feels like the same gumbo.

You're just kind of ladling out.

The tone is the same across the board.

And I think the fact that they, you know, that DC is like, great, we're going to have Gotham.

It's a procedural.

Great.

We're going to have Harley Quinn.

It's an adult animated show with a lot of cursing.

Great.

We're going to have Doom Patrol.

It's kind of weird.

Great.

We're going to have Teen Titans go, which is a crazy cartoon.

So I think that, like,

I do like that they take all these swings and they don't, like,

give a shit about.

the characters popping up to tease movies.

You know, it's, it, this is way more fun.

And yeah, I'm curious to see how they rope in the other Batman characters.

I can't wait to hear what you think because

it gets a little weird, but I'm here for it.

Sure.

Yeah, listen, I love how weird Riverdale gets.

Oh, well, if you love Riverdale, you're going to fucking love Gotham, let me tell you.

That's the greatest endorsement anyone can give a product.

Totally.

So, yeah, that's Gotham.

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Okay, I think that's it.

Bye, right?

Bye.

Yeah, goodbye.

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