Fat Monks with Jay Shetty

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Two Jews, both big and tall, no subject too small for the good guys.

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Make it your weekly routine.

It's a good guys.

And if you don't give us five stars, what are you nuts?

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Welcome back to the Good Guys Podcast.

Ben, I'm jealous.

I'm jealous.

You should be jealous because I'm sitting across from the incredibly handsome person, I must say he's incredibly handsome in person, Jay Shetty, on purpose podcast, on purpose live, so much more than that.

But Jay Shetty, thank you for joining us.

Oh, thank you so much.

It's so good to meet you guys.

I'm so happy to be here.

We're so happy to have you, such big fans.

And we'll get into it, but I'm on a bit of an Eastern medicine holistic journey myself.

Wow.

Previously, a very Western man.

So meeting you at the right time in my life.

Josh, you think that I should become a monk?

You think I could do it?

A monk.

You as a monk.

Have we asked Claudia about this yet?

No.

Can Jews be monks?

Can we have Jewish monks?

Have you ever been under the thumb of a Jewish wife?

You have to become monkish.

Yeah, am I monkish?

Okay,

I'll become the first Jewish monk.

I like it.

Are you watching White Lotus?

I just finished watching it last night.

Absolutely.

Monks are very prevalent.

Oh, it's perfectly accurate.

It is.

I was going to say, please debunk.

It's not bad.

Can we debunk, though, Josh?

It takes place in Thailand.

It's all about

there are monks, and one of the daughters is like trying to stay.

I think if she could cut it as a monk and be at the monastery.

But I was wondering if it is an accurate portrayal, and it is not.

No, no, no.

It's not far off.

It's good.

It's good.

They did a good, respectful job.

And definitely that idea of people wanting to leave the crazy world behind and wanting to disconnect, that definitely attracts a lot of people to it as well.

So, yeah, it looked right.

I wonder how many people are now looking up monasteries in Thailand and going and thinking that this is the right journey for them, only to get there and book a flight right back.

Yeah, definitely.

It's hard.

I mean, it's hard.

Yeah, it's like cold showers, waking up at 4 a.m., sleeping on the floor.

All your possessions fit inside a gym locker.

Wow.

You get two sets of robes, you wear one, you wash one, and you spend, you wake up at 4 a.m.

every day and meditate for the first few hours of every single day.

And then for the rest of the day, you're out helping, serving, supporting people in need.

And so it's a beautiful life, but it's physically and mentally extremely challenging and taxing for sure.

And somebody wakes you at 4 a.m.

You have an alarm clock?

Like, what does that look like?

Well, you're sleeping communally.

So you'd be in a room like this size, but there'd be like 30 of you in it.

And so people are waking up at all different times.

I'm a light sleeper.

So if someone's alarm went off at two, I'd be up.

Then someone wakes up at three, I'm up.

I'm trying to wake up the latest I possibly can, which is four

and so yeah it's you wake up because everyone around you is waking up and it's yeah there's an alarm clock that you'll have or someone will have around you that will wake you up and when you say on the floor is there like a mattress pad you'll have almost like a tiny yoga mat so like one of those gym mats the thin ones and then when i was in india because i lived across india and europe as a monk in india you'd get a mosquito net so you're sitting you're sleeping inside this almost like triangular contraption which is meant to keep mosquitoes out.

And I remember you've got shaved heads as monks.

One of my friends slept with his head at the edge of the net and he woke up the next morning and his head looked like the moon.

He's just like craters of mosquitoes just biting him through the net.

So you're kind of like stuck inside this net-like fixture.

I'm out.

Josh, the reason I can't become a monk is because I can't shave my head.

I have a notorious egghead and if I have to shave my head, I'm done.

I'm done for.

I can't do it.

I can't do it.

That's unfortunate.

Claudia told me to make it sound terrible.

She did.

I thought you were going to say, Claudia told me about my egghead.

I was like, how deep did you get?

Yeah, are there any exceptions?

Like, could Ben sort of like say to the monk higher ups like, guys, what are you nuts?

Like, you do not want to see this head bald.

No, I'm good with anything.

but the head shaving.

I can't do that.

Also, what good are you if you don't get a good night's sleep?

Like, I would think that sleep would be unbelievably important to the tranquility process.

If you get a nice eight hours in plush bed with 800 thread count Egyptian cotton, I'm thinking you're a better monk.

I think we should get you to sell that vision to them.

Right.

Yeah, you sound very convincing to me.

I think they'd be a better monk.

Yeah, I think you'd be a better monk, too.

I agree.

Jay, what's the hierarchy or what is our common thought or as far as monks go, right?

Because there's Tibetan monks and there's Buddhist monks and there's monks who study the Bhagavad Gita.

And like, so I'd love to know what kind of monk you were.

And what is sort of the, I don't know, the misunderstanding or misconceptions about being a monk.

First of all, I want to say you pronounced the Bhagavad Gita perfectly.

That was very artful.

You're so good.

Yeah, I just want to take a moment.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

I practice on the right here.

You did a great job.

So, yes, I was a Hindu monk and the Bhagavad Gita was our primary text.

And so the Bhagavad Gita is a, for anyone who doesn't know, it's a spiritual text that you would liken to the level of the Bible or the Torah.

It's from India.

It's 5,000 years old.

But it's not a book of rules or ideas or thoughts.

It's a conversation.

And the conversation is between God and an archer.

And the archer is the best of his time, exceptionally talented, but he's going through doubt and insecurity and anxiety before the biggest battle of his life.

And the Bhagavad Gita is a conversation that lasts roughly 45 minutes and 700 verses where God is guiding him as to how to reclaim his confidence and decrease his anxiety.

So it's very relevant to the world we live in today where everyone's got skills and talents and abilities, but we're all kind of overwhelmed by anxiety, stress, and doubt.

It's just so interesting to me that as a, I try and be as religious as I can, far more spiritual Jew than anything else, that this piece of just the way that we think is totally missing from the Torah, the Bible,

any of those scriptures where we're learning, I guess, day-to-day messages, but we're not learning about ourselves at all.

And I honestly, like, I personally struggle with that as it relates to Judaism, thinking through, okay, if this is like an all-knowing scripture, yet there are so many things that I can do to enhance my personal life that aren't in here.

I don't know if you feel similarly, Josh, but I find it fascinating that something that's 5,000 years old that even predates the Torah being written has so much information on self, and the Torah sort of is missing that.

For me, right, like I'm a, I'm a 12-step guy.

That was my access into spirituality.

And when you get down to it, the steps and, you know, acceptance and amends and a higher power, right?

Like these are all tenants we've thought of for thousands of years that we've known has had social currency.

But the genius of it was the packaging that it could appeal to, it was an access point for a guy like me.

So I think whatever your access point is into being a good person, you know, God bless you.

But I think we're all kind of practicing sort of the same thing.

But what do you think, Jay?

Yeah, no, I agree with you.

I think that all the truths are streamlined and interconnected.

And I've only found different traditions and wisdom traditions to speak about the truth in different ways.

And we'd often think of it like the sun is called the sun in America.

And in, you know, in in a Spanish country, it's called Sol.

And then in India, it's called Surya.

And it's like, there's all these different languages and names and terms for the same thing.

but we're talking about the same sun we're just looking at the same sun but talking about it very differently so i i definitely agree with that and josh sorry i missed your question you asked me what the biggest misconception was around monks

and and i don't i actually think the biggest misconception is we don't have much of a conception like i think when i first was sharing the journey that i'd been on a lot of people were like well what are monks what do they do like i think people have a very limited view and then i think if there is a misconception it's that oh they're already free of all vices and issues and challenges and they're always peaceful.

That isn't true.

It's like being a student.

Like you're not acclaimed.

You're not an academic because you're a student.

You're on the path.

And so all monks are on the path.

It's not that they've already reached enlightenment because they're monks.

Understood.

So it's chasing enlightenment.

It's always getting better.

Like that's always getting better.

Like that is a pillar in Judaism.

And Josh and I definitely talk about Judaism a lot.

We're both Jewish.

Somehow become core to our podcast, that and humor.

But I love this idea of always trying to get a little bit better, which is something that is deeply rooted in Judaism.

It's something that plagues me, where I think I'm a little bit worse than I once was, but I'm always trying to get better.

And so that is that constantly.

Why do you think that Ben?

Because you were more religious growing up.

Why do you think you're a little worse?

Because you're just not better than me, babe.

Yeah, not worse.

I guess traditionally just different.

Like I, I've been more kosher than I am right now.

I've been stricter in that.

I've never been more spiritual.

I've never been more in touch with God.

And even my, the relationship that I'm now pulling, I went this weekend, Claudia and I went to a spa retreat called the Mayflower Inn, which if anybody hasn't been unbelievable in Connecticut, this place is amazing.

And I signed up for, I've never done meditation before.

I signed up for a one-hour meditation class.

I thought it would loosen me up before the massage.

And I go in and it's a sound bath.

I had no idea what this was.

He explained it to me.

I lay down.

Was it one-on-one?

It was, there were six people in the room.

Six people in the room.

I did show up 10 minutes early like a nerd.

So I got all of the details with James, lovely instructor.

And I laid down.

And the reason I'm bringing this up is I had such a deeply spiritual and almost religious experience in that sound bath.

It felt like 10 minutes, Josh.

It was an hour and 10 minutes.

It felt like 10 minutes.

And I don't know what was going on, but I swear I saw myself burrowing.

You can make fun of me, burrowing into my own soul.

I don't know what was released.

Something was released.

And then I sat down for a 90-minute massage, which is unbelievable.

And I've never felt more relaxed in my life.

That sounds amazing.

So just, I don't know how I got here, but that's, that was my.

I would never want to imagine you burrowing again.

Oh my God, burrow.

Is a sound bath a, is that, is like, is that type of meditation?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, I'm so glad you had that experience because I think you're right.

Josh, have you ever done a sound bath before?

I haven't.

It's a little too hooey-woo-y for me.

Yeah, right, right, right.

You know, it's funny that you say that.

If I knew it was a sound bath, I don't think I would have gone.

Yes.

And the fact that I was almost tricked into it, I thought I was going to sit cross-legged, deep breathing, and like, whatever, I'll be relaxed for the massage.

And then I got there, and he has these seven bowls, and he's explaining the chakras.

And we're going across all of the steps.

And I'm like, I'm already here.

I'm not going to be insulting to James and get up and leave.

So I laid down and I did it.

And Josh, I'm telling you, you would love it.

I'm sure.

I won't even take a normal bath.

bath what am i gonna sit in my filth you i'm a shower guy

you would love it

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Yeah, no, one of my favorite things about all of this is demystifying it and almost speaking about it in a really practical way.

Because I think you're right, Josh.

Like a lot of people hear about these things and even about your amazing experience, Ben, and which I love hearing about.

And a lot of people think, oh, well, it's woo-woo, does it make sense?

And so the way I like to explain it to people is: we know that frequency and sound impacts us.

We all have music that you hear and it makes you want to dance.

You have music that makes you feel sad.

You You have music that makes you feel nostalgic.

We know that sound can make you feel emotion.

Sound can also make you irritable, distracted, angry, like when you're walking around the streets of New York and there's drilling and there's building work.

And it has an impact on how we feel emotionally.

And so sound bolts played at different frequencies have the ability to help you drop in to different levels of yourself and reconnect with yourself.

For some people, it can be relaxing.

For some people, they're burrowing into their soul.

For some people, you know,

for some people you just feel like i always feel whenever i do it i'm in that perfect state between awake and sleep yeah and and it's just this incredible dream state that i almost find whenever i do it and i feel the same way as you every time i get out i'm like how is that not just 10 minutes yeah and i've been in there for an hour so i've had a very similar experience to yours and so sound is one of the primary and highest forms of meditation and the repetition of sound and frequency is a is a beautiful way to meditate you mentioned that every morning in the monastery you wake up and take a freezing cold shower.

Josh and I are big cold plunge enthusiasts.

Oh, I love it.

We love it.

We love it.

We love what it does to our brains.

Is the reason why you do that so that you are sort of awaking the mind?

Is it simply because you don't have hot water?

Like what is the, and how does the religion or practice think of cold plunging?

I find a lot of these ancient traditions, we're finding that modern science is proving true what they did naturally.

So maybe back in the day, there wasn't hot water, but now it's definitely about alert.

It's definitely about being focused.

It's definitely about simplicity.

It is about the shock to the system, which wakes you up in the morning.

And even moving forward, one of the yoga practices is known as Surya Namashkara, which I'll translate.

It means sun salutations or greeting the sun.

And if you think about today, when we talk about looking at the sun when you wake up in the morning to kickstart your circadian rhythm, that's exactly what we were doing back there.

It's just that it wasn't explained in that language.

But you greet the sun in the morning, which means literally letting the sunlight into your eyes, which kickstarts your circadian rhythm, makes sleep easier.

So all of these practices, whether it's cold plunging,

whether it's sun gazing, whatever it may be, all of them are in these ancient traditions.

And I even found that when I went to Hawaii a couple of years ago with my wife, I remember we took out one of the kayaks and we walked up, we went out into the middle of the ocean one of the mornings and they made us do this Hawaiian ceremony of greeting the sun in the morning.

And I was thinking, wow, all of this stuff exists everywhere.

That's good for us.

It's just that we got developed as a society and started using an indoor light instead of going outdoors to get it.

And that affected our biology and chemistry.

So, yeah, cold showers, highly recommended.

Cold plunging, highly recommended.

I still cold plunge today as well.

I'm a fan.

I love it.

I love doing the contrast therapy of the infrared sauna and cold plunging.

So that is us.

That's what we need to do next time, us three are together.

By the way, I want to put the shirt off with you, Jay.

You don't seem judgmental.

I feel comfortable with Jay.

I would let Jay see my stretch marks.

I would feel the same way about you guys too.

I feel comfortable around you too.

Well, yeah, but you clear, Jay.

A face like that.

I feel comfortable too.

Do you thank God every day that you have your complexion and your color eyes?

It's a nice package.

It's so funny.

It's like, you know, when I was growing up, I was overweight growing up.

And so, yeah.

And while I was, how overweight are we talking?

I was bullied for it at school.

Like, that's my experience of it.

Well,

yeah.

So I was bullied.

He's one of us.

I was bullied all the way till I was like 15, 16, when I probably lost, started to lose weight.

And I think that was, I started to play sports, whatever, right?

But, but that's when I had it.

And I remember someone saying to me when I was young, and it was like an aunt, right?

Like someone who wasn't like my direct family.

And she just came up to me and goes, you know what?

The only nice thing about you is the color of your eyes.

Like the only thing that's nice about your physical experience, physical appearance is your eyes.

And I remember it feeling so sad, like just hearing that.

Like it just felt like she was just like, not even the shape of your eyes.

Like she literally went into that much detail.

And I'll never forget it because it just, I already felt bullied about it.

I already felt uncomfortable at school.

And I felt uncomfortable about the color of my skin because there weren't many Indians in my elementary school.

And so again, in my area, I didn't grow up around that.

So it's funny that two of the things today that people may see as strengths and positives, they weren't that for me when I was growing up.

But see, this is why you're a good, nice guy.

Josh and I talk about this all the time.

If you are never fat, you're missing out.

You're missing missing something.

You're missing the self-deprecating nature.

You're missing the ability to laugh at yourself.

And I think you're just missing out on a very large part of human existence.

Josh is now a skinny mini.

I'm still working

on my body thanks to ozempic trizepatide.

It depends on the week.

And you clearly have tackled your weight issues.

But I think it's very important at one point or another.

You don't have to have been fat, but you have to have overcome something physical.

I think it just sets you off on the right foot.

I think it helps us.

Oh, go on, Josh.

Go on, you were going to say something.

Sorry, I cut you off.

Not at all.

I was just going to say, I do think that when you're chubby as a kid, people do tend to compliment your eyes because it's the only place you don't gain weight.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's, it's to what you're both saying, I mean, there's a, I think you gain a sense of compassion when you've had any challenge in your life and you look at things through a different context.

And you also just realize like how there wasn't a choice in that.

There wasn't a consciousness in that.

There wasn't, it wasn't that complex.

It was just who you were and how you were raised and what you grew up around.

And you start to recognize when you look at people, you look at them as so much more than just how they appear.

And to me, it's always been that for me.

Like I've, I've been really fortunate.

And a big part of monk training was how do you learn to see people beyond their body, not just their shape and size and whatever it may be, but the color of their skin, the where they're from, because the goal is to see them as consciousness and soul and spirit and energy, which is the same for all of us, no matter what's on the outside.

And that was a big part of our training: that could you really look at a human beyond their physical self?

Are there fat monks?

For sure, for sure, yeah, absolutely.

Oh, yeah, fat monks?

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

I don't know why I thought that it was also just about like rationing and eating less.

There is, but I find that even with that, it just shows how our bodies are all different.

Totally.

There weren't that many, what would I call them, like indulgent foods as a monk available.

Like, I wouldn't say there was lots of sugar available or there was lots of

food a monastery, you know what I I mean?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, you're not got Sour Patch kids in there, you know.

Like, it's, you know, you haven't got access to stuff like that.

So it's not, but it just shows how everyone's body is so different and, you know, digests differently, and the metabolism is different for everyone.

But yeah, there's no, there's no Coke.

I'm just thinking about myself, Josh.

I enroll, I'm a monk, it's the middle of the night, it's one in the morning, and I wake up all the monks from binge eating in the middle of the night.

There's no vending machine in the monastery, you know.

Jay, what is your spiritual, I don't even want to say spiritual practice.

What do you do every morning when you wake up?

Do you meditate?

Like, what does sort of your daily practice look like?

Yeah, so I still meditate every day because in my tradition, once I was ordained, if I want to continue teaching and sharing what I've learned, I have to commit.

And I always describe it as like, you always want your personal trainer.

to be in better shape than you are.

And you expect them to work out more than you do.

And so considering I teach meditation, I i believe it's a responsibility that i have to meditate for longer than people would so i meditate for 90 minutes to two hours a day and it's a big part of my practice it has been for nearly the last two decades so it's not a practice that i developed overnight it's something that i've worked towards and i find that that meditation practice is split into three things so the first is breath work i always wake up and i align my breath and i think a lot of us have this experience where we wake up and we're breathing shallow we're breathing fast we may be feeling anxious from the night before or or poor sleep.

And I find that just getting my breathing aligned is a great place to start.

The second thing I do is I'll visualize what I have coming up for the day.

So I was visualizing meeting you guys today.

I was visualizing meeting everyone else that I was meeting today.

And I'm not trying to have a perfect visualization.

I'm just trying to visualize how I want to show up in the moment to be present, to be kind, to be thoughtful.

And then the main part of my meditation is mantra meditation, which is the repetition of sound.

And so this repetition of sound is to connect you to frequencies and vibration and put you in that state of being connected to God and connected to your higher self.

And so, I will do that every morning.

And with our crazy schedules, as I'm sure both you have as well, I don't always get to do all of that in the morning.

So, sometimes it's split up between morning and evening.

Sometimes it's split up four times throughout the day.

Sometimes it's all in the evening if I've had a late night.

And so, it can shift now.

It's not as perfect as it used to be.

And how much worse are your mornings when you don't have your routine?

I've done it for so long that I find my mornings are fine without it.

If I miss it,

I'll be exactly the same as I would if I did meditate.

I just find that I feel so much more deeply connected to my purpose and my mission and how I want to feel inside of my head.

So although no one else would notice, I would notice how I feel more deeply connected when I have meditated.

And so it's not something that externally anyone would ever know would be something for me.

I'm drawing parallels that I've never really thought of, Josh, but really praying.

In Judaism, we're supposed to pray three times a day.

I don't.

One is supposed to, morning, afternoon, and night.

And I wonder if that's almost a type of meditation.

It's different, right?

But you're speaking a different language.

You're praying to a higher power.

You're by yourself.

You don't have your phone.

You're sort of centered.

And then this idea of Shabbat, where you are turning off electronics for 24 hours, being very in one, like with yourself, with your family, with things that are important, even though we don't call it that, these are all forms of meditation weekly and daily.

I mean, that Shabbat is probably one of my favorite things.

Like, every time I hear about that from my Jewish friends, it's incredible that commitment of anyone practicing it.

It's so beautiful to have that time with family, with God, to disconnect.

I mean, it would be amazing if it was just a rule that everyone had to do it.

It would be spectacular.

It's so funny, though, like what Jews will do, Josh, and then go, we will do anything to not make it peaceful.

Like, we will, we will turn on, like we'll have somebody else turn on lights for us.

Or I have friends who are religious who will accidentally leave the TV on.

Not everybody's like that, but it's just funny that the extremes that we will go to to counteract Shabbat.

But continue, Josh.

No, I was going to say, but I think like in Islam, they pray five times a day, Judaism three times a day.

Like I think in general, just checking in with a higher power is this amazing sort of habit to procure.

I've always heard, I'm sure you've heard the shea of like praying is talking to God, meditating is listening.

And I think, I think there's a stark contrast because do you know, Jay, are you friends with Ryan Holiday?

Yeah, I love Ryan.

Yeah, he's great.

He's awesome.

Ryan's a dear friend of mine.

And I remember I interviewed him once and he said, you know, the dirty secret about meditation is nobody's doing it.

And he just said, because it's really hard.

It's really.

And of course, you're doing it.

And certainly, I don't mean to say that obviously there are people who have a great practice, but I think the vast majority of people try it once at a gorgeous spa in Connecticut.

Not projecting, Ben.

I know you're going to do it every day.

But like, I think it's hard to develop that practice to really be open enough to listen every day.

For sure.

For sure.

And meditation in my tradition is definitely closer to prayer than it is just being silent and being present.

And in the mantra sense.

And so all the similarities you're spotting are there.

And by the way, my meditation practice, agreed, isn't perfect either.

Like I don't find it easy every day.

And I don't find it easy to keep up that amount of time.

It's a commitment I made many years ago.

And so I honor it.

But it's definitely been challenging over the last two decades to keep doing it in a million different worlds.

I find it far easier to acknowledge what's happening throughout the day.

Another thing that Josh and I frequently joke about is I say BH all the time, which means Beruch Hashem.

Please, God, let this happen.

I won't talk about about my son who will be born BH at the end of May without saying something like Beruch Hashem, which is like super, it's superstition.

But even in that, I'm acknowledging that there is a higher power throughout the entire day.

Like, let this happen because God is letting it happen.

And let this happen in the way that it's supposed to happen because of my relationship with God.

So it's not.

It's not meditating, but I like the constantly checking in throughout the day, every day.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that, I think, is the real goal.

The goal of any of these mini habits is so that you fill your day up with it.

Like I always say to people, like what you do at the start of the day and what you do at the end of the day will trickle into the middle of the day.

And whatever you do at the beginning of a podcast and the end of a podcast and before you send an email and when you receive an email, and it's almost like if you could bookend every activity with a higher thought or a higher power, now your whole day is filled with it naturally.

And we say something similar.

We say, if you so desire, if God so desires, then let it be.

And I think it's that beautiful language of learning to surrender, learning to detach, learning to trust.

I think there's a beauty.

And if we all have, and again, to demystify it all, we all know, you've probably tried the trust test, right?

With a friend back in the day at school where you fall backwards and they have to catch you, or everyone at least has seen it in some episode of some show.

And there's a beautiful feeling when you're falling back and you know your friend's going to catch you.

And we all have people we trust in our lives, whether it's our partners or really, really close friends.

And you probably have it with each other.

Trusting someone is this really interesting, beautiful, scientific, spiritual experience where it's like you know it, but you don't know, but you trust it.

And I think there's some beauty in that.

There's almost like this perfect balance between certainty and uncertainty that creates trust.

And so I think when you're trusting God or trusting our higher power or trusting your friend, your spouse throughout the day, when it's done in a healthy way, it's a beautiful experience.

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jay you know like they have like the there's the patron saint of the homeless or the you know, the patron saint of the sick.

If I had to say, I would say that the only people that are worse off than the homeless and the sick are celebrities.

Jay, would you say you're the patron saint of celebrities?

What would that mean?

How do you define that?

Well, they seem to love you.

Like you, I mean, you seem like the spiritual access point for some pretty impressive high-level people.

Well, I think what was really interesting, Josh, and Ben, when I started doing this, the natural thing was that it was spread and popularized by everyone online.

And so I was just really lucky that millions of people online were liking and sharing what I was creating.

And I think in that, there were celebrities that discovered it and started sharing it or reaching out or wanting to learn how to meditate or wanting to learn how to practice or wanting to learn about the Bhagavad Gita or whatever it may have been.

And so it was this really interesting experience where for me, I was just putting it online and kind of seeing whoever connects with it connects with it.

And then all of a sudden there was an influx of people asking questions.

And it was really beautiful because the people that were celebrities asking me questions, they were really sincere and really genuine because they really wanted to understand what I'd learned and what I practiced and how they could live it too.

And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's been an interesting part of my work that I never imagined would happen or you kind of kind of control it.

But yes, it's definitely become a part of my life.

And I'm very grateful for it because it's given me a different view on life.

Because I think sometimes when you're around people who are so out of reach and so, you know, living this, what externally seems like this glamorous life, and then you get closer to it and you recognize there's real hardship and pain and trauma and stress and challenge.

And then you go, oh, wow.

Okay.

So no one really has a perfect life.

That's not what it's meant to be.

Does that answer your question, Josh?

I don't know.

Yeah, no, it's I'm fascinated.

I would also love to know with gaining that level of popularity and, you know, connection to these celebrities and financial success and all these beautiful things that are so deserved, does that ever run in conflict with your early days of being a monk or spiritual life?

Absolutely.

It was probably one of the biggest challenges of my spiritual life has been to rewire my relationship with all of these things.

So the reason I chose to become a monk is because I was so in love with their two main focuses, which were mastering the mind and then service to humanity and God.

And I thought, what a beautiful way to live.

And if I had it my way in the way I imagined, I would have done that for the rest of my life.

Now I couldn't.

I couldn't physically do it.

It was challenging for me.

I also now am so happily married that I realized this was definitely my true path.

But it's almost like just as getting married is totally opposite to being a monk, so is having a business, so is all of the stuff that you just mentioned.

And it took me a long time to rewire my relationship with all of these things and to recognize that all of these things could be experienced, they could be used for a higher purpose.

And more importantly, being honest with myself.

So if I'm honest with myself, I really like my life.

I really enjoy it.

I really appreciate it.

And I don't feel like I want to go back to living as a monk, although I do go back with my wife every January.

We start our year at the monastery I lived at in India because it helps us deepen our spiritual practice.

At the same time, I'm really happy living this new life.

And so it took me a while to kind of mine our scriptures and holy texts to see that there were people from all different parts of society that loved God.

And there wasn't this, I think the phrase that has kind of, you know, been popularized over the years through music, film, TV, and sharing is money is the root of all evil.

But when I actually looked into it, the actual phrase is love of money is the root of all evil.

And that completely shifted and completely changed how I view it.

So I could either walk around and think all these things are the worst and I shouldn't be doing them.

Or actually, wait a minute, if I fall in love with them or if I worship them, that's the issue.

And so I think I spend a lot of time trying to, and I still do, I think it's a daily practice to ask myself, do I like this or do I now worship this?

And I think as soon as you move from liking to worship, which is a fine line, that's when you're heading in the wrong direction.

As opposed to we all want to have beautiful experiences, we all want to have memories that we make on planet Earth.

And I think that's not the issue.

The issue is, do I lose myself in this?

Do I chase things?

Do I worship and adore them versus experience and be honest with myself about my likes and dislikes?

Does that, did that, I don't know if that resonated, but that was, that was the most honest version right now.

Certainly did for me.

Yeah.

Did you, so you brought up your wife.

One, how long have you been married?

I think it's like eight years.

We've been married nine years this year, together for 12.

Okay, amazing.

Actually, almost identical to me and Claudia.

That's very strange.

Together for 12, married for eight in September.

Oh, nice.

Okay, amazing.

Yeah,

nine in April.

So literally this month, a couple of weeks.

And where, where, when did you guys meet?

Was she as spiritual or religious as you?

What has that been like if she wasn't bringing her up to speed?

You said every January you're going to the monastery together.

Like, what is that?

What does that look like?

So, I've always said that, like, I grew up as a kid who did everything else, everything under the sun.

And I've always been a good guy.

I've always been a good guy.

And, and I've always had a good heart.

My mom raised me well, and I owe my mom for that.

Everything that's good about me is because of my mom.

She taught me to be kind and respectful and all the rest of it.

But I dabbled in, you know, all the crazy stuff you do as a teenager.

And I found my way to God in spirituality and meditation through that.

And I've always said I've kind of tested everything under the sun and I much prefer being spiritual than anything else.

And so I've come at it from the point of view of I've tried a lot of stuff and this is better than everything I've tried.

So to me, I'm an experimenter and that's how I feel.

My wife's kind of like what I would call like on her 99th life in the sense that she's more spiritually involved, evolved naturally.

She didn't need to try everything out.

She didn't need to experiment with everything.

just naturally more monk-like.

In my first book, Think Like a Monk, I dedicated to my wife and I said, to my wife, who's more monk than I'll ever be.

And she almost has this natural innate spirituality.

Anyone who meets her will say she's just angelic and wonderful and she is.

And so when we met, the funny story is, and we told this story together on the first ever episode of my podcast on purpose.

I was about, I was in my final year of college and I was serving at the monastery in England on weekends before I left, after I graduated to become a monk.

I knew I wanted to be a monk.

So I was helping out at the temple in my area.

And this woman who was around my mom's age came to the temple and I was asked to show her around.

So I was helping her with different services and chores and showing her how they happened.

And I've never been asked to do this before, never been asked to do it again.

And she said to me, she said, I have a daughter that I'd love to introduce to spirituality and meditation.

Who should she meet?

She's kind of your age.

And I said, well, I'm going to become a monk, but I can introduce her to my sister.

And she said, okay, cool.

This happens to now be my mother-in-law.

Wow.

Who brings my wife to the temple the next day.

I tell my sister to come.

I see my wife.

I'm like, oh my gosh, she's the most beautiful woman in the world.

Focus, focus, focus.

Like, like, you know, you want to be a monk in six months.

Like, you know, get your, get your act together.

And so I literally lock her out of my mind, introduce her to my sister.

Her and my sister become really good friends.

I go off and live as a monk for three years.

And then when I come back home, her and my sister are hanging out all the time because they become really good friends.

And my sister becomes my wingman, makes it all all happen.

And so amazing.

Yeah, that's how we met.

So my wife has a natural spirituality.

She has an innate attraction to this.

It's almost like she was born to connect with God in this lifetime.

And even though I had to do lots of work to get there, it's now something that we support each other on for sure.

Wow.

Well, three married men, married young,

happy marriages.

I just want to say, I think that's very rare for podcasts.

Very lucky.

Very fortunate.

We're all very fortunate.

Very rare for podcasting.

They're always like, this is wrong with my wife.

This is wrong with my wife.

And we're like, what are you talking about?

Like, no, our wives are great.

It's nice to compliment your wives.

Oh, we're really great.

That's why.

Let's just take a second for that because I like to remind people.

I get a lot of people coming up to me and going and going, Jay, you're really nice, but your wife is amazing.

I hear, I'm sure you both hear that a lot as well.

And I hear that a lot.

And I'm like, well, just for a second, let's do a thought experiment.

If she's that amazing and she chose to be with me,

how amazing are we?

Anyway, that's my moment of ego.

We're amazing.

Yeah.

I keep telling my wife that, and she's like, can you take out the trash?

I'm dying to hear your thoughts on, because like, I can be quite, I don't know if skeptical is the, the right word, of like modern spirituality amongst like the trendy social media bunch.

Like

not, not grouping you in this in any way, Jay.

I'm saying like the way people interpret spirituality and when it's really just like slogan affirmation based, if you know what I'm saying, like everyone's going around quoting signs they saw at HomeGoods.

HomeGoods.

I'm like, guys, I saw Live, Laugh, Love too.

It didn't help me.

Okay.

I'm still here.

But

I'd love to know your thoughts, Jay on.

When I got sober, guys in 12-step in the room said to me, if you want self-esteem, do esteemable acts.

And so when I was completely lost, they'd be like,

They'd be like, just go clean the coffee pot.

Go stack the chairs.

Like, we don't need to hear all that.

Like, do something, take action, and your mind will follow.

And that's not as good of a bumper sticker on Instagram.

But I wonder for you, if you kind of want to say to people sometimes, like, just shut up and go do something nice.

Go return a shopping cart and shut up.

That's how my brain works.

Not you, Jay.

That's me.

I can't wait for that bumper sticker.

That's a great one.

That's awesome.

We need to get t-shirts.

Let's say that.

First of all, Josh, like I love the 12-step program.

I know a lot of friends who've done it.

I know people in my life who've done it.

And it's helped so many people.

And I think it's brilliant.

And even just the advice that you shared, it's so interesting how close that is to monk life, where you were cleaning the floors, you were doing the chores, you were serving the food that day.

You were active.

It wasn't this idea of you just sit there and you figure it out.

It was it was active.

It was and it was service-based.

I think there's two sides.

I think that there is a need at a time to talk, to discuss, to share.

But I think what you just hit on, which I'm so glad you did, is that there is no substitute for for service.

Even the science and the studies show that people who have depression, who help other people that have depression, their depression decreases just in the act of helping other people who are going through the same thing.

I know in 12-step, there's the idea of the sponsor who's always supporting you.

And just the act of that sponsor doing it for you, then one day you may become a sponsor for someone else.

And it's a beautiful thing to pass down.

And so I do agree that if we were encouraged in society to go and serve more, whether it's at a soup kitchen, a homeless shelter, whatever it may be for you, and by the way, it may not even be a charity.

Like you said, it may just be helping your neighbor.

It may just be doing the simple acts that we've been told for so many years.

And in every wisdom tradition, I think it would change people's lives.

And I love what you said about esteemable acts.

I think you gain self-respect by doing difficult things.

The reason you respect yourself is because you know you can survive something uncomfortable.

That's why taking a cold shower or a cold plunge is such a great thing to do.

Because even if the first time you're freezing and you want to get out, and I'm sure I did, I know I did.

The first one I sat inside, I was like, I want to get out right now.

And you push through that.

And then when you get out, you think, wow, I can do anything.

Yeah.

And I think that's how you start to respect yourself.

It's how you start to love yourself.

It isn't just saying something out loud.

And sometimes for some people, though, they're so early in their journey that they need to wake up and just say something empowering, something encouraging so that they can get to the cold plunge.

But I agree with you.

Doing that beautiful statement that you shared, that you build self-esteem by doing esteemable acts.

I think the more esteemable acts and the more difficult things, even if they're really small, difficult things, helps you build up self-respect.

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Are you super careful, Jay, about like I think about lawyers or psychologists, right?

Like they're held to a higher standard, right?

If they got in trouble, they could risk losing their license.

Do you ever like get a wave of road rage and want to screen?

And then you're like, I can't.

I'm Jay Shetty.

I can't do this.

So that's a great question.

I grew up in

a very difficult household and an angry household.

And so for me, anger is a anger is an emotion that i kind of trained myself to manage ever since i was young because i never wanted to be angry after what i saw happened when people were angry so i think i was very good at understanding rage from an early age and even when i married my wife we made a pact with each other that we wouldn't raise our voice we'd never shout each other there was never a need we we could solve every we have disagreements we have arguments plenty of times over the last you know 12 years of being together but we know that there's a way.

And that's why when I use the word argument, that's not shouting at the top of our lungs.

It's having a disagreement, having a discussion to figure it out.

And I think that's possible.

So I think anger is just generally an emotion I don't wrestle with a lot, but I get frustrated, I get irritated, I get upset.

And yeah, for sure, you're absolutely right.

If I'm not in the right place with the right people, I can't say that because people expect me to never, ever feel any of those things, which isn't true.

I feel all those things.

And so you end up spending time with people you feel safe around, where you can be all of yourself.

You end up spending time with my team, who I can be all of myself around.

And I don't think any of that is terrible, but yes, I think it would be hard for someone to be like, oh my God, Jay Shady gets irritated.

And it's like, of course I do.

I'm human.

There's plenty of stuff that irritates me or agitates me or whatever it may be.

But anger is something I've worked on for a long time to not necessarily express and feel.

It could be a very loaded question.

It could be too difficult.

If it is, let me know.

But But this idea of training the mind to be able to say, I know that this is a situation where I could be really angry and scream at the guy next to me.

But really, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

And I'm going to recenter myself and just not care.

I still have road rage.

That's actually probably the one thing.

I drive everywhere, though.

It's not my fault.

The city is a disaster.

But in a lot of parts of my life, I think it's owning a business.

I think it's just the day-to-day fire drills that come up.

You start to to eventually say to yourself, okay, this is something that previously I would have gotten really worked up about, but I know that the end result is not something worth getting worked up over.

And I can just cut to the end and skip through all of that drama.

Is there, I feel like it could be very helpful for people.

Is there a way to sort of start to do that?

It's not necessarily tackling anger, but it's almost recentering yourself so that you can lead a happier life, like waking up in the morning and choosing not to be angry, choosing to have a great day, choosing not to let today's or tomorrow's troubles ruin today's peace.

That whole mantra, like, is there something that you could advise?

We call them morons.

Great for their self-esteem.

But is there something that you can help our listeners with to sort of tackle that?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's so real.

I think so many of us have that feeling and emotion and stress.

And it's like, what do you do with it?

I think for me, there's two things.

The first thing I'll talk about, because you talked about choosing something, it's called the frequency illusion.

Have you heard of the frequency illusion?

No.

You'll know what it is when I say it.

So the frequency illusion is you're thinking about buying a red car and now there's red cars everywhere.

Yes.

Or you learned a new word or you learned something new and it's like now you hear about it everywhere.

It's not that the world has changed.

It's just that you notice it more.

This is how our brain works.

What you notice repeats itself.

So if you always notice what's wrong with something, you'll keep noticing more of what's wrong with it.

If you notice what's right about something, you'll notice more about what's right with it.

If you can notice things even keel, then you have a more steady life.

And so what I find is for so many years, we've been trained to notice what's wrong, what's scary, what's hard, what we don't want to do, that you keep noticing more and more of that.

And so a big part of this, the pressure of being me is actually the answer.

When you notice, when you feel pressure to notice the good, the bigger picture, the compassionate response, the contextual response, all of a sudden you start to rise to it because you go, all right, well, I actually noticed that that person might have had a hard day.

Oh, I actually noticed that what you just said, this isn't going to change my life.

I've experienced this a million times in traffic.

Getting mad never helped me.

So even just starting to notice things like that starts to shift you.

But to give you a practical habit, one of my favorite questions to ask myself when I'm worked up about something is, is this a fact or is it a feeling?

And I often find it's a feeling.

I'll give you an example, a simple one.

Let's say I text someone and I need a response right now, but I'm not getting a response.

The fact is, I just haven't had a response in 17 minutes.

But my feeling is maybe I did something wrong.

Maybe they don't like me.

Maybe I said too many things.

Maybe they're just in a bad mood.

Maybe, you know, you're making up all of these stories and now you're worked up about the feeling when you could actually fix the fact.

You can make a phone call, you could send a reminder message, whatever it may be.

So what I've discovered is that getting worked up never helps you work the thing out.

There's always a better thought.

There's a better action that you can take.

And so I always ask myself, if I really care about the solution, why would I get worked up about anything?

Because getting worked up only wasted more time, wasted more money, and wasted more energy.

But working something out and getting into action mode actually got me to where I wanted to be.

If someone cuts me off in traffic, me getting angry, carrying that for the rest of the day, telling seven people at work, telling my wife when I get home, wait a minute, what did I do?

I just ruined seven interactions that could have brought me gratitude, joy, happiness, and motivation.

So I'm looking at it from that perspective of what am I carrying throughout the day rather than what's life giving me.

Often these very angry people don't realize that they think, oh, what's the problem if I'm angry?

And then you, you look at them and they're so angry and they're making everybody around them angry.

So it's this, it's almost this selflessness to choose to be less angry, knowing that if you're less angry, that has a ripple effect on everybody around you.

Like bad things are happening to your your family.

Maybe it's because you're so angry that everybody around you is trained to now think that bad things are going to happen every day.

So I don't, it's, it's not necessarily a follow-up.

It's just

this idea of this, the way that we internalize these fears and the way that we project and what we wear on our sleeve has such an impact day to day on us, but also the people around us.

Absolutely.

Well said.

To mirror what you were saying, Jay, I have this story that always sits with me, which is I was working with this guy.

We had a little bit of a falling out.

Basically, we had been working together for a couple of years and then he wanted to do this different project in a certain way.

And I didn't agree.

And I felt like, and he kind of just said, all right, get lost.

You know, nice seeing you.

And the way in which it ended made me feel bad about him.

And I had a lot of self-righteousness, a lot of like, he was wrong and I am right.

And all the ego that comes along with righteousness.

But he had a twin brother who I knew and was a really nice guy.

And I would run into his twin twin brother sometimes and I would see when I would see him anyway, like a year or two later.

And I remember always thinking, if I ever see him again, who am I going to give him a silent lashing?

Like he is going to pay for what he did.

You know, and the, I'm not going to talk to him, but he'll know.

Hell no.

Anyway, his brother worked out at the gym where I worked out.

So every couple of months, we'd run into each other and we'd have a nice five, 10 minute catch up.

So about two years after the falling out, I see his brother at the gym and we're talking and it's really nice.

We're having this back and forth.

And I realized five minutes into our conversation, it's not the twin brother.

It's the guy.

Oh my God.

Oh, wow.

And the fact that I didn't carry any, and I know you know this word, Jay, Mishagas, it's Yiddish for baggage.

I didn't carry in any of the baggage, any of that self-righteousness, any of that punishing energy that I would have probably met him with had I seen him and known who it was.

There was such a feeling I I got from him of, thanks for letting me off the hook.

Thanks for meeting me with Grace.

And it was returned.

And I was like, wow, what a lesson.

Wow.

That's incredible.

I've never heard that version.

That's amazing.

Same.

That's really special.

Now I need to know what twins these are.

Are they the Scott brothers?

Who was Colby Dilder Sprouse?

It was Zach and Cody.

That's amazing.

That is amazing.

That's pretty awesome.

And that's such a good story.

And that's what I love about it is that when you went in there without your guard up, that person actually felt relieved and reciprocated with it.

And I think, you know, again, I think people should keep a distance from people who hurt them.

But I think don't keep a physical distance and then keep emotional baggage.

That makes no sense.

Yes.

Right.

It's like, we'll keep physical distance, but then there's emotional baggage.

And it's the emotional baggage that ruins your life.

Yes.

You know, rather than being close to them physically, but then emotionally being free.

It's also only keep that distance if it helps you.

Yeah.

But there are so many people that keep distance from people that have unresolved issues where they're hurting themselves by keeping that distance and not just having that closing conversation.

You mentioned this with the texting.

You're sitting up thinking all the time because you no longer have a relationship with this person that they are thinking about you every single day, that there is this two-way street of anger when in reality, there's probably only a one-way street of anger in most cases.

One person no longer cares and the other person really cares.

So

keep that distance only if it serves you.

Otherwise,

absolutely.

Otherwise, bring them close and yell at them and yell at them

until they're ready.

Ben, should we try to do one or two speak pipes before what are you nuts?

Do we have time?

Yeah, let's do it.

Let's do.

Are you okay on time?

Okay, let's do one or two speak pipes.

Then I want to talk about the tour and let people know what they can expect and then

think about it passively.

Jay, let's plug the tour while I pull up the speak pipes.

Okay, give me a pick.

And then just, you know, we do a segment called What Are You Nuts?

Okay.

People, Places, and Things, Gripes with Humanity.

You're walking around the city.

You're like, what are you fucking nuts?

Like, what is that?

So just think about that passively.

So you are currently on tour or going on tour?

I am about to go on tour.

May 12th.

It all kicks off.

Okay, great.

So the on-purpose tour, nationwide tour, your nationwide dive.

15 cities, 15 surprise guests across North America and Canada.

Amazing.

And what can we expect from this tour?

And can we expect the IP seats?

Absolutely.

I hope you both make it, whether you're in LA or New York.

I am so excited about it because we've had on purpose for six years now the podcast, people listening every week, every month, every year.

And I thought how awesome would it be to have everyone in the same place?

Usually people are listening, commuting to work, walking their dog in the kitchen.

Imagine if everyone who listens every week was actually in the room.

So you look to your left and right, and there are people that have listened to the same episodes you have, people who've been through the same experiences you have, people who have the same favorite guest on the show.

And I think that's what we're missing in life right now: community, we're missing connection, we're missing places we can bump into people that we have things that in common that we're like-minded about.

And so, for me, what's really exciting is we're going to have a surprise guest, we're going to have the conversation just like on the show, but there's going to be wisdom, insight, stories you've never heard before.

I want to give you an opportunity to ask questions to the guest, myself.

I'll be coming out into the audience.

There'll be a lot of interactive moments.

It's going to be a memorable evening, and we're, yeah, we're going all over town.

So, it's jayshetty.me forward slash tour if you want tickets.

Wonderful.

Get tickets.

Support Jay.

We're going, Josh.

I'm going.

100% have you there.

I'll be there.

I'm going.

I'm the surprise guest.

I didn't want to tell you.

I'm asking a question.

I'm in the audience.

Please.

Big me.

Big me.

I love it.

Yeah.

You're my plant.

Yeah, I'm there.

You're my plant.

Oh, yeah.

I'll ask something very flattering.

Yeah, very flattering.

I believe you, Ben.

Yeah, I will.

I promise.

Josh, you want to do a couple of speakpipes?

Yeah, so people will give us questions, ask for advice.

If you want to do that, go to speakpipe.com/slash good guys.

Keep it brief.

Brevity is key.

Let's hear from Anonymous.

Sometimes they're very long.

Hi, good guys.

My question to you is, what are your thoughts on open relationships?

Are you okay with them or do you not agree with them?

Let me know.

And thank you for your podcast.

Love hearing it every week.

Olivia, this will be the clip.

Jay, kick us off.

Wait, so I want to define, like, this is different to polyamory.

This sounds to me like they're not married.

Yeah.

I don't think so.

I think it's just you're

with someone, but you're also with another person.

I don't think that this has to do with being married.

Yeah, and it's not to do with polyamory either.

I mean, here's my take.

My point is it's all about honesty, clarity, and transparency.

If you're both happy being in an open relationship, you've talked about it, you're free to do whatever you want.

But if one of you thinks it might be exclusive and you're using that as a way to kind of not clarify it so that you can do this, I don't think that's great.

I think it's healthier to have relationships where honesty, transparency, and clarity are at the forefront because it only makes it messier for you and the other person.

And in this case, the third person is going to get involved as well.

And so in order to save yourself lots of stress and anxiety, that's the reason to continue to be honest.

I agree.

One-on-one, Josh.

I'm a big fan of one-on-one.

I think that even if you ask two people that are in an open relationship, do you want to be in an open relationship?

I'm sure that one person wants it far more than the other.

And that other person is getting hurt.

So I don't know.

Unless I'm just not developed enough to be able to think this way, the idea of being in an open relationship is, it could also just be that my wife, I...

It's the scariest thing in the whole world to me is that thought.

Pass, hard paths.

Josh?

In my experience, I have found that my friends.

I don't know where this is going.

Here's the problem.

I've had friends who've done it or attempted it, and it's always ended in disaster because they never came to me and said, it was so good with the two of us.

We were operating at such a peak that we said, we got to bring another person in to share all this goodness.

It's always the last stop before divorce.

Like it was shit.

And let's just throw this against the wall.

Maybe it'll work.

But it almost never is the reverse.

So that's only been my experience.

So while I understand it could probably work for a very, very small minority.

I think it's extremely small and even smaller than you think it is if you're considering it.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Another one.

Here's another one from Anonymous.

Hey, good guys.

First, I just wanted to say thank you so much for making me laugh while postpartum and going through the swing of it.

It really brightens my day to hear your guys' pod.

But my question for advice is when I found out I was pregnant, we were telling our friends and we had this set of friends who's having a hard time conceiving.

So I have like a full-on panic attack about telling them because I knew that they were struggling, but we wanted them to find out from us and not social media or word of mouth.

So we ended up telling them and the girl's response was, yeah, I figured.

And then no congratulations, no nothing after that.

And she was like in my, in our wedding, one of my really close friends.

Didn't really hear from her after.

Met up a couple times with our friend group and it just was kind of a weird vibe.

And then invited them to our baby shower and diaper keg.

And they didn't show up.

didn't like send a gift or anything.

And we haven't really spoken since.

But I just don't know if this is something I should confront her about and just say like, you know, it kind of hurt my feelings the way you responded.

but I know they're going through a hard time trying to conceive.

And so I was trying to walk on eggshells and like be there for them for that, but it just kind of fell apart.

So I don't really know what to do.

So any advice you guys have would be great.

Thanks.

Love you guys.

Is a diaper keg?

You get a keg?

Like, is that a drinking experience?

It sounds rad.

I'm just saying.

Okay.

So, JD, go on, Josh.

Take it away.

Go on, Josh.

We're Ike and go.

I'm ready to go to.

Whatever.

I think both things can.

I think there are two truths here.

One is giving your friend a bit of grace because they are going through an incredibly challenging thing.

And being at that time in my life where my wife and I have plenty of friends who have kids, are trying to conceive and are having trouble conceiving.

I know, I mean, what could hurt, what could be more painful on an existential level than the idea that you might not be able to have kids?

And while my wife and I were always like, we would adopt, like we wouldn't even think twice, I know that's not everyone's truth.

So I think giving that friend grace and not being hard on them is fair and a nice thing to do.

And I also think drawing a healthy boundary and being hurt and not wanting to lean into that is fair too.

So if it were me, I would give them space and I would give myself space to not be hurt again because it's not cool either what they did.

I can't, I agree with you.

This isn't me patting myself on the back, but I can't possibly put myself in a situation where I would not celebrate somebody else's win.

That's just me as a person.

You tell me that you bought a house.

There is a person that's like, fuck, I wish I bought a house, but I can't.

It's like, no, I'm so happy for you.

And I understand that conceiving is probably a heightened level of success, but there is the type of person that celebrates your wins without counting their losses.

And I don't think that you should be friends with somebody who's not rooting for you.

You can root for somebody without it hurting you.

So I agree that we should show some grace for somebody who's struggling to get pregnant, but this idea that that because you're struggling to get pregnant, you can't be happy that I'm pregnant to me is really messed up.

Yeah.

I mean, both of you have shared so many like great insights.

And I agree with both of you on multiple points.

I think I definitely have had, similar to what you just said, Josh, I have so many friends who are in this exact situation as our anonymous caller today,

where I have a group of friends who are all around the same age.

And they all started conceiving with their partners at different times.

And sadly, some had miscarriages, some had, you know, stillbirths, like really, really painful experiences.

And speaking to them about it is, is what's informing my answer.

And I do agree.

I just think that sadly, sometimes people are in such pain that they can't rise to root for you.

And, but the thing I will add is that I think it's, if you want to have this conversation, there's only two reasons you should have it.

The first thing that you've got to remember is you should have the conversation if you still really want this person in your life.

If you don't, don't, it's not worth a conversation.

So you've got to answer that.

And the second thing you have to ask yourself is, when's the right time?

Because chances are, because that person's in a vulnerable space, even if you bring it up now, you may not get the space to even share how you feel and actually get the space to share how hurt you are because the other person's going through that pain.

So just be really mindful of those two things is when you have the conversation and if you need to have it in the first place, because you've got to really ask yourself, do I still want this person in my life when they've made it very clear that they may not want to be in your life?

And I think that's the hard part here, regardless of what they're going through or however, however hard it is, they're making it clear that they don't really want to be around if they didn't turn up to your baby shower and all the other events.

She did not expect to get such great advice.

She did not.

She did not.

I heard she's lucky.

What, what, Ben?

I said she's lucky.

Yes.

Look, I heard this said once, and it's definitely helped me with me and my wife, which is, does it need to be said?

Does it need to be said by me does it need to be said right now and if i check all three of those boxes i say it otherwise

you're right

does it good i will say i will give a very shallow example that i did make a movie with chris hemsworth before he did thor and we were best best buddies and then he got good and famous and i couldn't handle it it was too much good stuff i was too threatened i was like we can't be friends right now chris but you know he's the sweetest greatest But it's when someone's crushing it that hard, it can be a little bit hard.

But I was in a different place.

It depends on the, yeah.

I was

weak.

So, Josh, what are you nuts?

Go for it, Ben.

Okay, what are you nuts are gripes with people, places, and things.

Anything going on in New York City, it's so easy.

Everybody here is so stupid.

You're walking around, you're like, what are you nuts?

I can go first, give you an example, but then I'd love to hear yours and Josh's.

And it has to be in New York or anywhere.

Anywhere.

Oh, no.

It usually happens on planes.

I'm sure you have one from your travels or online i'd love that yeah yeah love that mine happened in real life i hopped in a taxicab the other day traditional yellow cab didn't go uber i was very proud of myself opened up the door go in all of a sudden i start hearing clipping josh clipping we're going light to light we probably went like 20 blocks i hear this clipping clipping i'm like is this driver clipping his nails while he's driving?

Josh, I look at the front.

He has a nail clipper.

He's clipping his big nail.

He's doing all his nails.

All his nails.

He gets to a red light, Jay.

He pulls up his foot.

The guy is clipping his toenails at the red light.

Woody, nuts.

Like, you can't do this in the privacy of your own home.

You have to do it.

And by the way, if you can hear the clipping, that means your toenails are thick.

We're talking these things are spraying everywhere.

This is insanity.

Woody, nuts.

Only in New York does that happen.

Only in New York does that happen.

Oh, that's good.

I'm thinking.

Josh, you have one?

Yeah.

My woody nuts is, you know, now since COVID, everything is, let's set a call.

I'll set a Zoom.

Or even worse, a Teams?

Ew, Teams now.

Oh, yeah, not a fan.

A Google meet?

Let me tell you one thing real quick.

If it's anything other than a Zoom, I won't be there because my login doesn't work, first of all.

But secondly, do I gotta see your face?

And if Jay Shetty wants to zoom, I'm zooming.

You got a face like Jay's?

Otherwise, let's talk on the phone.

I don't need to see your face.

What are you, nuts?

Nuts.

Nuts.

Too much pressure on the face.

I don't want to have to take a shower before a call.

Totally.

Right?

I just want to talk on the phone.

I'm with you 100%.

I've got so many now.

Yeah.

Now I'm like, we're figuring out which one to choose.

There's like a real one, like a deep one.

And then there's a more silly one.

I think you do both, whatever.

When I first moved to America, and I remember going to a restaurant, and we had really bad service, like really bad where like they messed up the order, no one knew what was going on, things were late, we were waiting around for a long time and we were really kind and chilled out about it the whole time.

And at the end of it, I didn't put a tip on, but that was because in England, you only put a tip on when the service is great.

There isn't a culture of tipping.

So I didn't know that.

And then the person comes back to me and goes, how was the service?

And I thought, wow, they're asking for feedback.

So I was like, this is amazing.

So I'm like, all right.

So I was like, well, you know, like the food was great, but everything came out late.

You know, there are a few mistakes.

There's kids with, not our kids, but like, you know, niece and nephew, like other people with us, like it was a bit hard for them.

Like, you know, cool.

Like, and so then they go back.

And then he comes back to me and he goes, if you don't give me a 20% tip, like it, you can't, you can't leave.

And I was like, what are you nuts?

Like, I was like, it's crazy.

Like, I was like, what do you mean?

Like, you just asked me for feedback.

I gave you all the feedback.

He was like, no, no, no, you have to give a 20% tip.

That's like the standard here.

And I was just like, what are you nuts?

Like, I was like, I don't have like, I don't, I don't know why.

Like, I don't get it.

And I didn't understand the culture too.

And so that one I did.

But I've got another one, which might even be better.

It was the first time I was getting my haircut in America.

And I had just grown my hair back like over the years.

And getting a haircut's a very intimate experience, guys.

Would you agree?

Yes.

Yes,

it's hard.

Absolutely.

And so I remember booking this place online.

And I thought it looked good from the outside.

And I was like, all right, they seem like they'll know what's going on there.

I walked in and guys, you'll have to help me out here.

But I sat down in the chair and I was like explaining what I needed done with my hair.

And my hair was a lot simpler then.

It was like short back and sides, like it was easy.

And it wasn't that curly.

It was a bit straighter.

And I was like, yeah, I want short back and sides, this, this, this.

And the moment the guy picked up the razor to the side of my head, I felt like he didn't know.

Have you ever had that experience?

I just felt uncomfortable in the moment.

And so I was like, sir, like, let's, I'm not feeling so.

He was talking to me about it.

I didn't feel comfortable.

I was like, sir, I'm just, I'm not comfortable.

I'm going to leave.

Like, thank you so much sorry you know sorry i didn't work out he doesn't even touch my hair and he goes yeah that will be 75

and i was like what are you nuts i didn't do anything like we don't cut any hair like we haven't done it i'm leaving i'm cool like it's good like you know no there's no bad blood here like before it goes bad and he was like no you have to pay 75 and i was just like i i don't but i didn't do anything like we and he was like but you scheduled the time so you have to pay for the time and i was like but i've been here for literally 30 seconds and i had to pay the money before i left both of these by the way everybody everybody needs to stop holding jay shetty hostage i know this is unbelievable yeah you can't the first what he answers by the way both great what he announces the first one you cannot leave until you give me a 20 tip josh this is mafia this is mafioso whether or not the man's entitled to a 20 extortion leave this is america leave and they extorted you at chilies you've been extorted twice

That's what's been happening to me.

You've got chilies and at supercuts.

You've been extorted.

And the other time I got my haircut, they gave me a chin strap.

I walked out there looking like 50 Cent.

It wasn't good.

My goodness.

Well, Jay, this has been an absolute pleasure.

You guys are the best.

Thank you.

This is an absolute pleasure.

On purpose with Jay Shetty, podcast of all podcasts.

We're fortunate to have you.

On purpose live, go see Jay Shetty.

Check it out.

Josh and I will be there.

If you come up to us, just, you know, give us our space.

Okay.

We're celebrities.

Give us our space.

That said, we'll be there as well.

Anything else you want to applaud?

Oh, you guys are so much fun.

Now I know why they call you the good guys.

You guys are great.

Thank you.

This is so much fun.

Thank you, yes.

You guys are the best.

Thank you.

We had the best time.

And if this episode isn't five stars, folks, what are you nuts?

Listen to us wherever you get your podcast.

Watch us on YouTube, Josh YouTube.

Share our clips, TikTok, and Instagram.

We're blowing up Mondays and Thursdays, folks.

We will see you next time, Jay Shetty.

Thank you so much.

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.