Episode 407: Michael Chernow: How to Build a Lasting Marriage, Break Free from Addiction + Why Morning Routines Matter

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By the way, this is like take 10 with Michael Chernow,

who is my very dear friend.

The first time we tried to do this podcast,

the lighting was bad and the sound, so we couldn't post it.

He thinks I'm like full of hot air, i it's actually true i let's not hot air i would i would can i curse on this thing i don't know depends what you're gonna say shit okay bullshit on that one it is not bullshit if you remember correctly it was the same guy that did your podcast who filmed that remember like my my normal person was not available and we had to use that guy that you used on your podcast who also didn't do the the colors well and the color correction was you know we can point fingers all day here but speaking of I actually have really been interested in this okay hold on I want to put put you on video I'm going to take a little social media video. What did you say, Michael? I've been really interested in this stuff.

And I... I've really been interested in this.
Okay, hold on. I want to put you on video.
I'm going to take a little social media video.

What did you say, Michael?

I've been really interested in this stuff, and I don't do caffeine anymore, anyway.

And so I've got a buddy who was telling me about this that you actually introduced me to.

Who was your buddy?

Who was it?

Gosh, his name is Greg.

Greg Link.

Oh, my God.

Right. And so he's told me about it.
He's been telling me me about magic mind and now i see it here so let's see i mean i am typically good at this shit podcast stuff he's shake it you shake it it's delicious should i shake it just shake it this is actually my favorite shot it's great for your brain focus and being alert. So here we go.
Oh, that is good. Isn't it good? Nice.
Floral citrusy. I like it.
Yeah, it's a good one. Alright, let's go.
Alright, now you're going to be super sharp. I am.
I'm not, but that's besides the point. I've had five of those already today.
Not five, I've had two. And I think two is enough, I think having more than two is kind of overkill.
Yeah. But also I'm also drinking coffee and I'm also because this is my fifth podcast today.
Yeah. I don't normally do that many, but I make an exception when you come to town.
I actually do that every time I do every single time I shoot podcasts, I line up like four to five and I feel like for me for whatever reason like I feel like I get better and better as it goes by even though I'm tired I just feel like my flow is kind of there and I just dig I see that I feel like when you're tired also your inhibitions are a little bit less so like you'll say things more freely you don't give a shit as much you look so fit right now i do right the second yeah you just look fit you look like strong you look good like this moment right now i noticed that as soon as i saw you i was like wow jen looks good fit strong wow thank you you mean when you walked into my house or just right now as i'm sitting no when i when i walked when I walked into the house, I noticed it. And not that you aren't normally, but I was like something, I feel something.
I feel like maybe she's doing something a little different. She looks strong and fit.
You just look good. Thank you.
Yeah. That's so, coming from you, who is the fittest.
We're playing footsie. I know.
Are we hitting on each other? I compliment her and then she starts playing footsie with me. If I didn't know any better.
No, I'm joking. Coming from you, that's a very big compliment because you know how I feel.
Michael, by the way, not to make everyone vomit on this podcast because of the compliments back and forth, but Michael really is the fittest person you've ever seen in your life. He has a 12-pack.
No. Yeah, and he has amazing style.
And if he was single, I'm telling you, I would be basically throwing you out to every single lady possible because you're so cute. He's very happily married.
So back off ladies. I just did a post about how important routine is in a marriage.
Really? Oh yeah. I just, I just, I think it's so.
No, I think think it is. But you just posted that just now? Literally a second ago.
Okay. Why? Why did you post that? Because I've been trying to share a little bit more.
When I'm thinking about how I can be a value to other people, I'm thinking through things that have uniquely made me a better person. And routine, everybody hears the word routine and they're like, oh yeah, morning routine.
What's my sleep routine? You know, routine is typically like a solo mission, right? Like this is my routine. Speaking of, there's my wife.
However, routine also can apply to relationships, specifically marriage, right? And there's, you know, we have friends that we've talked to and look, I don't want anybody to feel bad about this. I don't know if this is what you do.
So anybody listening, don't like kick yourself in the ass for this. But there are friends of ours that like just totally split up at night.
So, you know, one of them will stay on the couch and watch their show. You know, the other one will go into the bedroom and like read and watch or watch their show.
And like someone will fall asleep on the couch. The other one falls asleep in the bed.
And in my mind, I'm just like, that is a routine, but it's not a healthy one, right? And so for us, and I think this is probably just because routine has been such a huge part of the foundation of my success and everything. That with my marriage, like we have like from six o'clock till lights out, it's a routine.
And it's not like robotic, but it's, we do the same thing pretty much every single day when I'm not traveling. And I fucking love it.
What's the routine? Six o'clock, we have dinner every night, like clockwork. The family does.
The whole family sits around the table and has dinner every night. I get home, I pull into my driveway at like 5.55.
I do like a little, I know this sounds kind of corny or whatever, people roll their eyes, but I do a little breath work real quick just to like buffer my insane entrepreneurial, like savage thinking head into, oh wait, no, I'm actually a dad and a husband first. And so I need that sort of little three minutes of like recalibrating.
And then I pop into the house at like 5.58 and at six o'clock dinner's ready. And Donna's like an amazing cook.
And so we sit down around the table. We all have dinner together every single night.
And then after dinner, it's typically like some games with the kids or we just hang out until like 7.30, 7.45. And then either Donna will put the kids down or I put the kids down.
We go back and forth. And then right when we're done with that at like 8.15, the two of us cuddle and watch a show.
And we do that until 9.30 and then we go to bed. And like, it's also the other really important piece of that, that I think is so small, however, incredibly significant is touch your partner as often as you can.
Like I make it my, I, I, it is something that I'm, I'm cognizant of and I do it purposefully because it meets, it's important to me. But like when I'm sitting next to my wife, no matter where I am, I've got my hand on her leg.
I've got my hand on her arm. I've got my hand around my arm around her.
I'm holding her hand. I'm touching her.
And it doesn't mean that it's like it's not like some like, you know, freaky deaky shit. It's like those little things were together almost 20 years.
We're married 17 years. So like that long relationship that long, like you can easily forget that shit.
Like that, like, oh yeah, you're just, you have been next to me for the last 17 years. Like touching you doesn't really like register.
For me, I want my shit to last. I want my marriage to last forever.
I do. And so for me, I'm sitting next to her.
She's not my friend, even though she's my best friend. She's my lover.
She's my wife. I'm going to touch this woman and connect that way.
And I think that's so important to say. Little tiny thing.
You're sitting next to your partner. Boom.
Just hand on. That's it.
It connects. That connects you two together in an intimate way.
And so we do that. We don't just watch TV together.
We touch each other, and then we go to bed. And it's like, that's the routine.
And it's awesome. And I just shared about that because I think I was listening to a podcast.
I was listening to the Jordan Harbinger podcast. He had this divorce lawyer on from New York.
He's coming on my podcast. That guy? James something or another.
And Jordan Harbinger, what a weird coincidence. Jordan Harbinger just texted me.
Oh, really? I love that guy's podcast. I listened to his podcast.
I'm going to tell him you said that. Interestingly enough, that guy, James, is coming on my podcast.
Jordan is a very close friend of mine. And that James guy, I reached out to him.
We're coordinating it as we speak. Awesome.
I mean, it was wonderful to hear that guy because the way he sort of describes this business relationship marriage, it would be like if somebody looked at you and said, hey, invest in this business, 60% chance it's going to fail. It could make you feel awesome, but you could lose everything if it doesn't work, but give me all your money.
You'd be like, no. Like, I'm not going to do that.
You know, like, it doesn't make sense. And that's like how he describes what marriage is, right? It's like, that is the deal.
You literally give up all your money, everything you own, and you have faith that this person and you are going to be able to live out the rest of your life without fucking hating each other. And knock on wood, like, so far, this is the longest and most successful relationship I've ever had in my life with my wife.
And like, I have zero interest in it going anywhere. But like, listening to that podcast was just like, it was like, it was real, you know? I think the majority of marriages really are tough.
And I think there's so many different things

that go into what make it successful.

And if you don't have little taps on the shoulder

or reminders like the one I just did on social,

like, hey, you're sitting next to your partner,

like you could just sit there and not touch them.

Or that little touch could be the difference

of like how you feel about that person that day

subconsciously or not, you know? And I really do think that those little things make a big difference in marriage, you know? This is so great. Number one, I was not expecting you to delve right into that stuff.
Like I thought we would talk about this, that, the other thing, but I love that we're talking about this because I think you have a really nice perspective on it and passion around it. And I think this is very helpful for people because the truth of the matter is like, it's been in my, in my vortex a lot, like relationships, marriage, what makes a successful relationship, what makes a successful marriage.
And it's really hard. And so most of them, like the lawyer said, they fail especially in in places where we are.
I live in L.A., obviously. You live in New York.
But you don't live in New York properly. You don't live in Manhattan.
You live in the outskirts, right? I live further than—I'm like out of New York now. And I think you need to be very—not you, everybody, we have to be very cognizant and intentional of how you have a relationship just as you would of how you want your career to go.
And I think you're right. People do end up forgetting or prioritizing and taking for granted because it's just available and it's done.
Right? Like the goal is, oh, let's get married and have a kid. Okay.
Well, then you have that and it's like, okay, you don't date your partner anymore. Dating becomes very frivolous.
Like you don't do it anymore. You do it before you get married, right? And so they always say like, you have to like, don't forget, like you still need to date your partner even when you get married, even more important, right?

So can you give me a couple other things that you do routine-wise to kind of keep the fire and keep the marriage intact?

Yeah.

Because that's a really smart one, the hand situation, the connecting thing or like hugging or touching.

Because you're right, like I think people, one sits on one side of the couch and the other sits on the other.

And then you go to bed.

Right.

Yeah, I think people, one sits on one side of the couch and the other sits on the other and then you go to bed. Right.
Yeah. I think, I mean, the, the, the elephant in the room, right? Like long term relationships, it's no surprise that like the sex is not nearly as intense as it was for the first two to five years.
Right. Specifically the first two years.
You know, like you're like, you're just ferocious and wanted all the time. Most, I mean, sometimes.
I mean, yeah, but you're right, exactly. It does die out.
If there is a sexual chemistry between the two of you, there's like, and there is between Donna and I, you know, however, like anything, you know, once you get used to something, it's hard to keep it exciting. It's hard to just be like, I can't wait.
Totally. But a few things.
One, I will say for us, communication is just even more important than routine. Communication is paramount.
And that doesn't mean like, yes, it means telling your partner you love them. I'm talking about the shit that is hard to talk about.
I'm talking about like, there are people that go months and months in a relationship long-term that are not having sex and just don't ever talk about it, ever. It's just like, and they both know that, that like, this isn't good.
Like we should be having sex. But like, once you, I think once you get out of it, because I've been there, there has been times where Donna and I have had to check each other and be like, Hey, like it's been like six weeks since we've had sex.
We got to go. And that also isn't like amazing, right? Where you're like, we got to do this just because we know it's the right thing to do.
But when you get into the routine of it, so now, you know, not so now, I mean, we've been pretty good about it, but A, like, you got to talk about it if it's not going down. Like, and if you're waiting for your partner to say something, because you feel uncomfortable, like that's a cue to be like, okay, I got it.
I got to talk about this. And so similarly for other situations that are just uncomfortable for you.
Like if, for instance, we were just on vacation for two and a half weeks. And, you know, when you're on vacation with someone, with kids, you're 24-7 together.
And it can get tough, right? There are going to be moments where she gets ticked off at me, I get ticked off at her. We're together.
There's no running. There's no escape.
So you just got to go and battle, right? And there was a couple of those. And I think that's also healthy.
But I think when you feel something in your gut or your sternum or your chest that is making you just like uncomfortable

about your partner,

whether it's something that they're doing that's annoying,

whether they say something that you don't like,

it's important for me, speak for me,

to just voice it like right then and there.

And I know going into it, I'm like,

hey dude, this is a 50-50 chance

where like you are either gonna get into a fight

that's not gonna be fun

or you're gonna be able to somehow just like talk through this. But dude, if you hold this back, there's a good chance that it's going to explode in three days and no one's going to want to be around you, specifically the family.
So I'm very cognizant about being, I call it like upfront in your face communication because it's just like, it's not fun. It's like extreme closeup shit.
You just got to do it. You have to do it.
And I think it's so important. But going back to the sex piece, you know, I think having sex is so important and it's not about like, like if your relationship is built around your sex life long-term, you're fucked in my opinion, right? Like it can't't be that like it's got to be way more than that yeah but understanding what time of day especially when there's kids involved young kids like you have to be you have to just like get it when you can but i also think that like if you guys can figure out and and again this this requires conversation and communication figure out what time of day works best to have sex and boom, you got to commit to once a week at minimum, right? Is that what you guys do? You have like a time of day? No, we don't schedule it or anything like that.
But like I wake up mega early. I just do.
And it's kind of great because the kids also wake up mega early. But I choose one day a week when I wake up early and I'm just like, boop, boop, boop.
You know? And nine out of ten times, I get the green light and that's it. And it's awesome.
And we laugh about it, you know, because like that's – but I think – What time do you wake up in the morning now? Like 5.15. It's kind of like when I always wake up, 5.15.
Okay. Kids wake up early though too now.
Our kids wake up now at like 6.30. So, but I still, again, like back to the routine piece, like my morning routine is super important to me.
And it's not like, I don't hold myself to like this crazy thing anymore necessarily. Like I used to have this really long drawn out thing specifically in COVID to like keep me from going absolutely crazy.
Like I built this like crazy structured thing and I still, when I, when I want to do it, I do it. And when I don't, I don't.
Sometimes I'll work out now. Sometimes I'll do the sauna, cold, plunge, red light thing.
Sometimes I'll just do prayers and pushups, you know, but like morning, having a, some sort of a plan in the morning for me that gets me going, that like fires up my engine is super important. So wait, let's just stick with the relationship and then I wanna get to the routine because the routine is a really good piece of like your routine.
I love it. And so I don't wanna like, I don't wanna like kind of just like go, you know, pass by it.
That's a whole other section of this podcast, in my opinion. So then you're saying if you have sex at least once a week, even if it's like routine, like you just said, like beep, beep, beep, you feel that that at least keeps you in a connecting place.
And it's very, very important. Is that your takeaway? Yeah, yeah.
I think the takeaway is basically being in a relationship with a person that you would consider your life partner, husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever you call it, being in a relationship like that and not having sex after a certain period of time, which is very common, adds another layer of guilt, shame, and discomfort, right? Even if you don't, like, it just does. You know, if someone, like, if you're- Because you know something's wrong.
You know something's wrong. And you're not talking about it.
You know something's wrong. It's like the elephant in the room.
Right. And also, like, you know, and by the way, like, it's very common, right? Like, when you have a conversation with a friend, you're sitting with a girlfriend, I'm sitting with some of the guys or whatever it is.
And you're talking about, the conversation has gone from totally superficial to like a little bit more substantial. And you're talking about it.
And if one of those guys or one of those friends of yours is like, yeah, like we're just not having sex much. Like no one's like, yeah, we're not having sex much.
It's awesome. They're like, man, we're just, it's just not happening.

Like, I don't know, you know.

You can change that.

It takes commitment.

But I can honestly say that when that is happening,

there's just a different feeling amongst the two.

And I've found that to be incredibly true for me.

And, you know, it's just like, you're like, no, we are doing that. You know, we're in a long-term relationship and we are still having sex regularly.
And you're taking the initiative. I think that what you said earlier was actually another thing that we should highlight, right? Which is when you get in a rut where you don't do it, you know the importance of what it means if you don't.
Like where that rabbit hole takes you, not to good places, like more of a disconnect. So even though if it may feel forced, it's still for the better good of the relationship, right? Because I believe you and I agree with you, like anything can become a routine.
Like once you start doing something all the time, that's your routine. Once you stop doing something, that becomes your routine.
So it's pick your routine. Pick the thing that you're going to do.
Because once you stop, then it's very easy just to kind of go down that path. I will also say that I think the topic of talking about long-term relationships and sex is a real thing.
Because it is pretty controversial. People struggle with it.
Because a lot of people fall into the category of like being in a long-term relationship and like not having sex and there is shame around it 100 and people don't want to talk about it 100 so they they're lonely and they are like it breeds more loneliness yeah and also i and look i'm also like no you know marriage counselor marriage counselor. Are you sure about that? It seems like you are.
That's another thing you can add to my list. Yeah, I was gonna say, Michael has like a million things he's like a professional expert on.
Maybe you should become like a licensed therapist. Well, I think that I just feel like because I'm sober, right? Yeah.
I see everything through a clear lens all the time. And the, and I've also learned through the work I've done on myself that like the stuff that hurts the most, or that is the most uncomfortable tends to be the things that provide also the most gratitude and the most reward.
So like going through the things that are super difficult and challenging tend to ultimately deliver the greatest gifts, you know? And like, that's, that has been depicted over and over and over again in my life where it's like, man, like, and that's, and, and I'm also a glutton for it. You know, like you sign, I sign up for some ridiculous fitness challenge.
I saw that. What was it called again? That one that you did that I was supposed to maybe do with you? The High Rocks.
It was great. I'm doing one again in Dallas.
I want to do it with you. It's so great.
It's so great. You should do it.
Can I train for it now? Oh, of course. Yeah, of course.
You're already in great shape. So for you to do it, the only thing that you would have to pick up is probably your running.
Why? How much running is there? It's a lot of running. How much running? I run already.
It's 8K. So it's an 8K.
It's four miles? Yeah, but it's not about, it's different. It's like running 1,000 meter spurts.
So you basically run 1,000 meters and then you do 1,000 meter row. You run 1,000 meters and you do 1, a thousand meter row.
You run a thousand meters and you do a thousand meter skier. You run a thousand meters, you do burpee broad jumps.
You run a thousand meters, you do farmer's carries. You run a thousand meters, you push a sled.
So it's a lot of shit. And it's basically running a thousand meters after fully exerting your body on some other exercise.
So it's awesome though. I love it.
But I guess going back to the point where like, for me, what I've just learned is that like my greatest learnings in life have all come out of and on the other side of challenge and difficulty and adversity and fear, you know, everything. And so I think like, I know walking into a conversation that I, that I feel like I need to have with my wife is never comfortable.
It's like, if I feel like it's not, if it's something that she's doing, that's frustrating for me, you know, or if I could tell that I'm doing something that's pissing her off, and she doesn't immediately bring it up to me, I will broach the conversation. And most of the time I'm correct.
But like, I just know that, you know, the other side of fear is freedom, period. Like, that's just the truth.
It just is. It's just everything that you are afraid of, when you are able to face it, walk through it, experience what that feels like, on the other side of it, you just feel a sense of, like, you feel light.
So why is everyone so afraid to face their fear if on the other side is freedom? Because the truth is you're right. Like whenever I've been the most fearful and I've done that thing, I felt so much better.
I felt like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. And we all know that because we've all been in a place where we had to kind of confront something at some point, but yet that's not enough to make us continue to face the fear.
We'll do anything possible and everything possible to not face any kind of adversity or fear. I think what it boils down to is, and this is kind of what I've distilled it down to from my life, and I've failed so many times at this, but commitment over time develops confidence, and confidence over time develops courage.
It's the three Cs. Anything great requires courage, and typically greatness comes out of overcoming fear, right? People people write about people that, you know, win wars, shit like that, right? And so I think where it starts is like the commitment component of life.
Start with that again. So commitment.
Commitment breeds confidence. Okay, give me an example.
What do you mean by commitment? I always think that the three C's for me are a little bit different. I think competence breeds confidence.
Yeah, but you can't be competent without experience. So commitment is what- Commitment's more like your commitment to whatever that thing is? Yeah, but that develops competence in that thing, right? so like as an example when i was coming out of the dark place in addiction right and i i was i had zero self confidence zero ability to do anything but run for the fucking hills because that's what i did that was my life for 11 years i just was like dial it in i'm done feel good i'm done.
Feel good. I want to feel better.
Feel bad. I want to feel better.
Feel anything I don't want to feel. And so I got really good at being a Houdini and just like poof, like disappearing in plain sight, you know.
And so when I was coming out of that, I got introduced to a couple of guys who like just showed up and just like winged me and told me about and introduced me to fitness for the first time in my life, really. And they said, there's two things, there's three things you got to do, and we can't force you to do it or make you do it.
But if you can do these three things, the chances of your life growing in a really positive way are strong. And if you can't do these three things, we can't like guarantee you anything, right? But they basically said, if you can commit to moving your body fitness wise, eating well, and connecting with the sober community, like nothing else should matter in your life.
Those are the three things you got to commit to those three things. So like, we're going to write this plan for you.
It's going to be, and I'll, I mean, I can tell you the plan, but the plan was basically, these guys were like, you want to wake you, we want you to wake up as early as you can in the morning. As soon as you wake up, you roll out of bed and right onto, right onto the, to the floor and ask God for help And get on your knees and ask God for help.

Take a piss, wash your face, brush your teeth,

put on a pair of sneakers, go outside and take a walk.

That could be a five minute walk.

That could be a five mile walk.

That could be a run.

That could be a jog.

Whatever you wanna do, but move your body.

When you're done with that,

come back in and eat a bowl of oatmeal.

That's kind of where my business now has come from.

Start with something nutritious,

satiating, healthy, easy, accessible. Oatmeal costs nothing.
You can add whatever you want to it. When you're done with that, go to a sober community meeting.
Fucking tell them who you are and why you're there. Right when you're done with that, meet us down at the gym.
And these guys told me this gym to go to. It was a Muay Thai gym.
And they said, we're going to teach you how to be a man, really, is what they said. But they were just like, we're going to come and we're going to train with you here and we're going to kick your fucking ass.
And, um, and they taught me about so much there, you know, mentally, physically, spiritually. And then they said, right after you get out of here, you're going to have a, you're going to go to the deli on the corner.
You're going to get chicken and broccoli. You're going to go and take a nap.
You're going to go to work. You're going to have chicken and broccoli again for dinner.
And you're going to go to bed as early as you can. And right before you go to bed, you're going to drop on your knees.
You're going to say thank you and go to sleep and then rinse and repeat. That was it.
That's what those guys taught me. So I learned there that if I can just commit to that, like the commitment to the fitness and nutrition piece developed confidence for me.
And then once I started doing that consistently, like that is what changed my life. That is 100%.
I am absolutely confident. I have complete confidence in the fact that fitness and nutrition changed the course, the trajectory of my life, period.
And if there's anybody out there who's thinking about like, oh, you know, I just need that thing. I need that relationship.
I need that job. I need that fucking that raise.
I need this like I'm feeling lost. I'm feeling directionless.
Like all I'll tell you is this. If you're not moving your body and you're not eating well in a healthy way, you should immediately start doing that because that is going to give you far more confidence, far more strength, far more ability to feel like you're in control of your life than the car, the bump and raise, the fucking relationship, the whatever.
All that shit will come once you're a confident, courageous person. But you got to get right with the commitment, you know.
That's great. And I'm going to clip that because that was a really beautiful soliloquy.
And I think it's, this is why you and I click because I wholeheartedly believe that to be a hundred percent true. You can transform your life if you take control of your life by actually through fitness, through nutrition, because physically being, becoming physically strong makes you mentally tough and makes you mentally strong.
And that becomes a vicious cycle. And the more mentally, mentally strong you are, that breeds confidence, right? Because you feel and know that you have the capacity and you are capable of doing hard things, which of course then helps you with another building block of confidence.
And all these other little pieces fall into place because you know yourself that you're competent, capable, confident, do hard things. And I think that did change the trajectory of my life, a hundred thousand percent.
And so people are focusing on the wrong things. They're focusing on like that guy calling them or that girl not calling them back.
And like all this ancillary superficial bullshit that means nothing in terms of like actual happiness or satisfaction or fulfillment, because you can't get there unless you have the first part taken care of. Yeah.
And in my opinion, it just really does start with one thing. And that's why when you say commitment, I understand now because you made the commitment to go through that fitness regimen, that nutrition regimen.
You were so committed that that's what drove you to the next C. Yeah.
And by the way, it sucks for everyone in the beginning. Everybody.
Every person that walks into that. Situation.
Yeah, it sucks for everyone. So if you're sitting there thinking, oh man, it's easy for them to say.
It wasn't easy when I started. It wasn't easy for anybody when they start.
Right. The next question people are going to say though is, well, how long? How long does it take where it becomes then such a habitual thing where if you don't do it, it feels weird? Yeah.
So my sort of answer to that is like, if you thought about everything in your life as how long, you'd never do anything. So I kind of see it.
And obviously this was taught to me in like along my sobriety journey, but like, I really do look at life as a day because that's all I got. Yesterday's long gone.
It's long gone. There's not a human in history that's ever been able to go back and change what happened yesterday.
And tomorrow, I mean, I say this kind of like as a cliche, but it's true like tomorrow is not guaranteed so you the whole like i'll start monday yeah i'll start tomorrow is just a cop-out and it's and it's a fearful response to like the the situation at hand so i kind of look at my life as a day like i've got today to show up and man like 85 of the time i win and winning doesn't mean winning the competition winning the race means i just showed up and did what i had to i gave what i had to gave to give and 15 of the time i'm like it i'm gonna like totally just do whatever the i want to do today and and i'm cool with And so I kind of live my life that way. But I do believe that like if you think about everything is like, oh, how long? Like if I thought about business, right? I've been in business as an entrepreneur since I'm 28 and I'm 43.
So whatever that is, you know, 15 years I've been opening businesses. And at 28, if I was like, man, you know,

even in 15 years later,

I'm not going to be where I see myself being.

Like, it's going to take 25 years.

If I, you know, if that was like my plan at 28

to be like, yeah, you know, 25 years, you know,

I'll be all right.

Like no one's putting in,

no one's investing in a 25 year long,

like opportunity. Everybody's like, no, I want, I want that shit now.
Yeah. Totally true.
I love when people give analogies like that. Cause it's, it puts things in such a great perspective.
Right. And I think that is so true.
And then how did you evolve your stuff? Because, okay, so you were obviously, you've been sober for a bit. I can't even believe that you were ever a drug addict.
It's like so insane to me, knowing how you live your life now. It's like beyond.
How were you able to be a drug addict and become such a like expert? Let me just give people a little bit because I teased Michael a bunch because he's like a musician, like a Juilliard trained. Not anymore.
Okay, whatever. He's a Juilliard trained musician.
LaGuardia High School, different, not Juilliard. Whatever.
Close enough. Fame.
We always say he went to like the school. He went to like fame.
I went to the Fame High School. The Fame High School.
And what was the instrument that you played? I played the tuba and the bass. The tuba and the bass.
He's also a chef, like a real one. He had like, he was a restaurateur.
He owned like a bunch of restaurants in New York City. He owned a place called the

Meatball Shop. Wrote actually a cookbook called the Meatball.
The Meatball Shop cookbook. Yeah,

Meatball Shop. Okay.
Then opened up Seymour's. And opened up Seymour's, which I went to with you.

It was very good. What else? So you're a chef, a musician, entrepreneur, a fitness phenom.

What else? Well, now I have Creatures of Habit, which is like my main shtick. Well, that's, but you're an entrepreneur.
So basically now he- Podcast host. Had a TV show for a few years.
Yeah, but you don't need talent for being a podcast host. Have you seen the kind of people that are out there, you know, like me? No, right.
You also had a TV show, a travel food show. You're just good at a lot of things.
Let's just put it that way. Thanks welcome this is your like playing humble thanks no i mean i thank you i used to i you know it's funny i think we had this conversation it for years people would like you know what i do something and people some or someone around me would say oh man you're you know this is a great thing or this congratulations and i'd be like, oh, stop it.
Now I just say thanks. Like, I take it.
You take it. I'm like, I fucking – good.
I take it. Be good because you earned it.
Yeah. Right? You earned it.
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That's timeline, T-I-M-E-L-I-N-E dot com slash Cohen. so how are you able to even be a drug

how slash Cohen. So how are you able to even be a drug? How did you have the time to be a drug addict and so talented and so exceptional at the same time? It wasn't at the same time.
So tell me the trajectory. So I mean, I started using drugs when I was 12, right? And I just stopped when I was 23.
So from 12 to 23, I worked in restaurants the whole time. I learned a lot.
When you were 12, you started it. Yeah.
Yeah. So I started super young.
What was the drug that you got addicted to at 12? Well, the summer between sixth and seventh grade was the first time I smoked pot. And before that, I was already sort of like started, I was smoking cigarettes with friends.
I mean, I also grew up in New York City. I grew up in a really fucking hard home, you know, and my family situation was not awesome.
And so for me, like, you know, I have been an escape artist basically my an escape artist basically for those years. I was just like, when I was a little kid, I never slept at home.
I always tried to sleep over at my friends' houses. Why? Just to be away from the crazy? Yeah.
I mean, look, my mom loved me and I can feel that my mom loved me, but my mom was also abused by my father. And my father was not only like mentally ill, but he was severely physically sick.
I mean, he was a juvenile diabetic. He had heart disease.
He had had multiple heart attacks and he was just a miserable person and totally took his pain out on his family. and so for me, like there was a lot of dysfunction, a lot, a lot, a lot.
And, you know, I'm now reading this great book called The Body Keeps the Score. And it's just so it's hard for me to read the book because I'm like, oh my God, that explains this and that explains that.
Like I'm learning a lot about myself through reading this book. But stuff that I knew, but now having it broken down sort of like scientifically, I'm like, Jesus, this shit is real.
But so at 12 years old was like finally the time where I had already felt like I was kind of, I was a bad kid. You know, I turned into this kind of rebellious bad kid.
And at that point, my father and and I I was no longer just like like if he would like get physical with me I used to run away or like cower or you know kind of like let him do his thing because he was my father and I was scared at 12 years old is when I started just like fighting back and so now I kind of like became a man in my house where if my father would try to swing on me or if I knew he was going to, I would hit him first or something like that. And yeah, it was just, you know, I don't regret it.
Honestly, I mean, I probably wouldn't change it because I do believe that it has kind of sculpted the way I see life today. But it did lead me for sure to want to escape.
And that escape was awesome in drugs. And I think that they've saved my life for probably the first five or six years, because chances are the way I was feeling about myself and I had already like attempted suicide in a cry for help at that age, I definitely didn't want to die.
But like, it's kind of scary for me to think about me like doing that. And if I hadn't found if I hadn't found drugs and alcohol at that young age, there's a chance that I probably would have killed myself because I was like really unhappy.
But so I found him and I fell in love with him. I fell in love with him.
And I moved out of my parents house at 15. And I just kind of like was off to the races.
And I always had a job in a restaurant or a nightclub. I stayed in high school.
I graduated high school. But I also sold a lot of drugs.
And quite frankly, like I learned a lot about entrepreneurship through that business, you know, as a kid. And what did you learn? What was the number one? Relationship development.
I was not a scary guy. I was not a tough guy until the end, really when I started to get really angry.
But I was the guy that everybody was down to do business with because from a young age, I knew that I had to have people. I had to intentionally make people like me.
And that was from a kid. Like if I wanted to sleep over at my friends' houses, I knew that their parents needed to like me.
And so I would intentionally go out of my way for that to happen. And so I parlayed that into just relationship development in my life.
And I learned how to like read a room, read a person, kind of chameleon myself for a situation. You put me at the White House, I'm good.
You put me in Watts, I'm good. Like I will figure out and make friends wherever I go.
And I think that's what made me a great hospitality guy. But now ultimately, I know, I don't think, like I used to be when I first started, when I launched the meatball shop, I was so insecure about my ability to navigate financial statements and P&Ls.
I fucking hated it. I had zero interest in it.
I was not good at it. Like my brain does not think that way.
And I was so insecure about it because I thought that that was like so important to know and come to find out like I can hire anybody to do that. Like I can't hire me can't I can't like put a job description out there that says hey I'm looking for a great relationship development person I'm looking for a great emotionally intelligent person to join my team who can read a room exceptionally well and pick up on nuance and cues body language you can't hire for that yeah and and also like hey I'm looking like a really like, I'm looking for a visionary.
Is there any anybody out there? How do you interview for that? So true. I always say to you, you're so likable.
And you know, this makes perfect sense because you trained and you even in like, unintentionally became trained yourself to be very likable out of survival. Yeah.
I mean, that was like, I mean, I didn't know that that's what I was doing then. But now when I look back on it, I really, you know, I really honed my craft from those days.
And, you know, it got me into a lot of trouble as a young kid with a pedophile, right? Like I was like trying to figure out, like, I wanted a father to love me. I really, really wanted that love from a man, you know, as a young kid.
Can you talk about that? Because I don't, people. Yeah, sure.
I mean, I, you know, I was as, when I was probably third, fourth, third and fourth grade, second, third and fourth grade, maybe my parents, my father was not involved in my life at all. So he would just like never participated in anything, you know? And he was on permanent disability.
So like, but he just like locked himself in a corner of our like apartment. He was a hoarder.
We had a little tiny apartment. And so he just like, I like, it was like very rare I saw or communicated with him outside of fighting.
And my mom was a, was full-time secretary. So they put me in afterschool programs because that's what you do.
Right. And so I was in this afterschool program.
I was in the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, the sports teams as a kid, I was, I was always sort of like a natural athlete. And so I kind of excelled at sports as a young kid, but the coach of the, of the, of the sports program, and he was also the Cub Scout leader was a pedophile.
He was a, I loved him. I like loved him.
I did. He was like my dad.
He was like, he treated me like a son. He took me fishing.
There was like a, like a crew of kids that he groomed, but he would take us fishing. He'd take us to like arcade, you know, all these things.
And then, you know, we would sleep at his house. And luckily, I mean, knock on wood, like I don't recall rape or anything like that.
But there was a lot of touching and a lot of like just not great shit in the shower, putting shampoo all over all of us, like touching our bodies. So it sucked.
If there's one thing that I would love to have had been different is that, but you know, it's another experience that I had, right? It's another experience that I had that I can now talk about and make someone else who's gone through that feel comfortable or a little bit more comfortable with their situation because I'm totally at terms with it, you he touched you in the shower, but he never raped you or did? I don't recall that. I don't recall that.
Do you think you might be repressing it? I just don't know about it? I've thought about that. Maybe.
I mean, the guy did get arrested and put in jail for child pornography and pedophilia. So I would imagine that he did that with people.
But I just, maybe I did disassociate. I don't know.
All I could say is right now from memory, it was like in the shower, he would wash us and rub us down. And then we would sleep over at his house in his bed.
I mean, I remember being at his house alone in his bed. He would ask me to like rub his thighs and like do shit like that.
It's obviously you don't do with a fucking nine-year-old kid. Right.
You know, like I look at my nine-year-old son, you know, I mean, I would murder somebody. I would legitimately, and I'm a very sane dude, but I'm also a dude you don't want to fuck with.
And I would kill someone if they did that to my son. Kill him.
Murder. And maybe I get in trouble for saying that, but that's how I feel about it because it did fuck me up.
You know, there's things that are still, that I still kind of like, I don't walk around feeling, you know, like ashamed of what happened. But when I realized that that had happened to me at like 16, oh my God, like incredible shame.
Like, did I want that? Am I gay? Did I like that? Oh my God, like, was that my fault? Like, did I ask for that? Like, I just didn't know. I was totally, you know, scary.
Like, you know, scary to go through that as a teenager. But, you know.
How did you process it? And how come after what happened, did you just not think about it for four or five years? I just didn't really associate it with anything that was wrong. You know, I was young.
I mean, this guy was like a father figure, you know, like, as if anything, like I loved the guy. And when I, when I, you know, when he stopped wanting to do those things with me, not, not like the molestation part, but like, take me fishing or, you know, take us to the arcade.
Like he was onto the younger kids because we were getting a little, probably to the age where maybe we would start to realize things and i was like why did he stop wanting to hang out with me that was the that was the only thing that i was i'd be like what happened to dan like i'd be like you know and you know what's so interesting sean t do you know who sean t is so he came on this podcast he's a friend of mine as well and we did a whole podcast on this because he was talking really deeply about how he was molested, right? Badly. I mean, not like none of them is, all of it's bad.
But like for many, many years to the worst degree. And he remembers and he talked about the fact that like when he was molested and the guy stopped molesting, the pedophile stopped molesting him, he was so upset and he cried.
And he was so sad because he felt like he was in love with him because he felt like he's been now abandoned by him. Like, how can this guy not want me anymore? Why does he not want to hang out with me? Why does he not want to do this with me? Like, the child and now what you just said to me just gave me goosebumps because like the kid internalizes it, right? Like, you feel like you've been replaced or you're not good enough.
Like, that's the mind fuck that happens because you become, you feel like they don't like you anymore. Totally.
But that is the cyclical thing that they do as these pedophiles, right? Like they know the age where the awareness becomes like risky. So horrible, horrible.
But one in four men are molested. One in four.
And, you know, I am now part of a class action lawsuit against the Boy Scouts of America because I was at home with my wife, like in the pandemic, like three years ago. And we're watching something on TV and a commercial shows up about the Boy Scouts of America and molestation.
And it is rampant, rampant, rampant. And there's the class action lawsuit.
The Boy Scouts are filing bankruptcy. And if you were molested by the Boy Scouts of America, it is your duty to be a part of this class action.
And I looked over at Donna and I was like, she's like, you have to call right now. And so I called and I spoke to the lawyer and found out 82,000 men at that time, at that time, this is three years ago, 82,000 men in the United States of America have come forward.
That's probably a small percentage of the amount of men that have been molested in the Boy Scouts of America or Cub Scouts. But that's a real fucking number, right? Like you got to think about that.
Just in the Boy Scouts? Just in the Boy Scouts. Just in the Boy Scouts.
At that time, three years ago, 82,000 men come forward to hopefully put these motherfuckers out of business. So this is stopped.
Because when you think about it, it's a hotbed. It's a hotbed for pedophiles because it's all volunteer, right? And, you know, it's so.
It's all volunteer. Go on.
It's all young boys. It's all volunteer.
It's all young boys. It's all outside and kids are scared.
It's like in the woods camping. Kids are scared.
So the Boy Scout leader can be like, oh, come sleep in my tent. You're scared.
Oh, come sleep in my tent. Come sleep in my sleeping bag.
It's cold. That's what happens.
That's what happened to me too. Also, and I don't know if this is a fact or not.
I have

no idea. You may know.
Who joins the Boy Scouts of America? Is it usually kids who have broken homes, who are looking for like some type of community? Is it everybody across the board? I don't know much about. So I don't, I don't, I can't make a generalization that way.
I would say that it's actually like, you know, it's like, it's been around for like over a hundred years.

It's like the American way, you know what I mean? Like it's supposed to be this wonderful thing where kids come together, they learn about survival and wilderness, they camp out, they cook their own food. They learn about boating and kayaks and tying knots and, you know,

building shelters and doing really fun, cool things. But it's been completely exploited by the pedophiles of the world, right? And so, you know, a lot of the kids that would go into a group like that, that have a broken home, it's very easy for the pedophiles to pick them out and groom them because they're looking for leadership.

Fatherhood is leadership, right? Like being a father to a son or a daughter, the end of the day is love and leadership. And like, if there's someone there and they're getting the exact opposite, that child is going to want the love and leadership like in a very intense way, you know? And that was me.
Like I wanted so badly to get like my dad to like give me a big hug and tell me I'm awesome and like wanna go throw a football with me. Never happened, you know? And so I found it in other dudes like at that young age and some of them were great and mentors in like the most positive way.
And this one guy was, took total advantage of it, you know? So I don't even know how we got onto that topic, but you know, like that, I share about it freely because I know there are so many men out there that it's happened to that are just bottling it up and not like I shared about it I don't know maybe it was on Rich's Rich Rolls podcast and I had like two friends that listened to the podcast from my childhood that called me up and said I've never told this to anyone but Dan Dan also molested me. Wow.
Yeah. And like, you know, changed my friend's life.
Like for him to just be able to share that. He never told anyone ever.
Never said it to a word. He's been holding that in for fucking 40, whatever it's been, 35 years.
35 years, never shared it, never said it to anybody. Did he share how it's affected him? Yeah.
What did he say? What he said also has affected me in a similar, like I've had a similar response. Like if, you know, not anymore because I'm married, I'm married a long time.
But before I got married, if there was ever a female that I was engaging in sexual conduct with that was way too aggressive or like super aggressive, I would, I would like back off. Like I needed to be the one to initiate that because if I felt like that person was like coming in hard, it wasn't comfortable for me.
Like I would, I would like, I didn't like that. And he shared that.
And I never put those two things together that like, if there was a girl who was just like super into it i'm like ready to go and like on me i didn't like it i was like it was kind of like a like turn off made me feel uncomfortable yeah and he shared that and i was like oh my gosh i remember feeling the same way is he married no no but you know he's been in long-term relationships. It's, you know, that there's definitely what I think molestation for young children does is create a massive gap in the ability and the understanding of intimacy.
Because your first introduction to like a romantic intimate situation was so fucking ass backwards. It's just not supposed to happen like that, right? And so it distorts and like changes like kind of like the neural pathways and the feelings and the emotions that you're supposed to develop with in those situations.
When some man is touching you in like a totally inappropriate way, you know? But then interestingly enough, look at you, right? Even with those situations, you went on to have a very healthy, stable relationship, right? Same with Sean T, right? He's in a very healthy, stable relationship. I mean, there's always anomalies, right? But it seems to me that it's for the people who've processed it.
Like your friend never processed anything. Yeah, maybe, you know, but I also think that, you know, the amount of work someone is willing to do on themselves is always going to overshadow the amount of trauma they've experienced.
And so if you're not willing to do the work, the trauma is going to just fucking hang that cloud over you all the time. The amount of commitment you're willing to put into doing the work, looking at life and trying to figure out some things, if that outweighs the effects that the trauma has on you, Not that it's going to go away and not that it doesn't exist, not that it's, you know, but like the amount of work that I have done through the 12 steps and therapy and just like, like humility in my life, I think has overshadowed and, and beaten back the trauma shit.
That's such a good point. How have you then, like, how do you parent? Like, how do you show up for your kids as a leadership? Like you said, fatherhood is like being a leader.
So what do you do as a parent with your own children to show leadership? So it's a great question. And this is an area that I like because of my role is as sort of, I mean, very comfortable saying this, but it might be controversial for others.
Like

my role is the provider. I am the provider at the family right now.
Right. And because of that,

I have to travel. I have to, you know, there are times where like I'm sitting at the dinner table and I'm still working, you know, where I'm not 100% there.
So this one area is something that I have to be hyper aware of. And I am, but I don't always succeed.
That said, consistency and commitment to the consistency, in my opinion, is still going to win over not having structure and routine. So every night that I'm at home, whether I'm fucking there mentally or not, six o'clock we have dinner.
I'm putting the kids down every other night. It just is what it is.
On the weekends, I do not work. I am full family all the time.
I do my best to spend some alone time with each of my sons. And typically that looks like with Dakota, it's either working out with him in the gym or it's going fishing.
And with Finley, it is whatever really he wants to do. Dakota is a little bit more like, I know he's younger and I know what he likes.
So like with Finn, I'm just like, hey, dude, what do you want to do? You know, but- What does he want to do? He's a very creative kid. And he's also blessed with like, he's just, he's kind of similar to me when I was a kid.
Like I was like kind of blessed with some athletic genes that it was just like natural. Like the kid picks up a baseball bat, boom.
He just knows how to swing it. Fucking throws a football, he just knows how to throw it.
Yeah. His body, like fast.
And he's just, he's like, if you looked at him, like the dude is just, he's got it. He's lucky.
He's really lucky because of just like who he is. But that said, he prefers doing creative shit.
So for him, it might be, hey, dad, let's like do like a really cool drawing or a cool painting or let's go out and like, you know, build something outside, build some fun, cool thing, you know. But the majority of the time on the weekends, it's like the family doing shit together.
And then at night when I put the kids down, you know, we have something that I've been doing with them since they're born. And it's called the 13 things.
I don't know if I've ever shared this. Have I shared this with you? I love it.
So every night that I put them down, I have a routine with them. Surprise, surprise.
Yeah. Shocking.
Creatures of habit. Yeah.
Habits and hustle. Yeah.
Why we're friends, I don't know. Yeah.
But I do think like having a routine, you know, with the kids, with my sons is like, is super important for them. And I think they crave it and they love it.
What is it? Tell us. So, you know, whatever.
We go upstairs. Typically, we've pushed their bedtime back a little bit now.
So now it's at 7.30. We go upstairs.
They brush their teeth. 7.30? Yeah.
How old are the kids? Nine and what? Nine and six. What, is that early for you? Yeah.
Yeah. But, you know, that's what we do.
Like, they get 10 hours of sleep a night. That's great.
I'll send my kids to you. Okay, go ahead.
So we go upstairs, brush the teeth, go into the bedroom, and then we typically read. We're into chapter books now, so we're reading some book.
And then after we read, they go up into their beds, and I say, hey guys, you know you can be anything you want to be when you grow up as long as you do it for yourself and nobody else. And I say said what's it going to take and they say courage and i say what is courage and they say being scared and doing it anyway and then um i uh i say all right give me the 13 and one of them will do it or the other one will do it or sometimes they do it kind of back to back but we've been building this 13 things and in my, these are values that are small, that are really

big, that I think have helped shape my life, that actually a lot of them I learned from my father.

So my father, even though it was a really tough relationship, he did give me these values that I

do believe are integral to my success. And it has a lot to do with chivalry.
My father was like insane about chivalry. Like that was like something that his father was very passionate about.
So, so anyway, so we, so the 13 things are always protect your brother. Ladies always go first, squeeze in eyes, which means when you give someone a handshake, you squeeze their hand and you make eye contact.
So always protect your brother. Ladies always go first.
Squeeze in eyes. Remember people's names.
Big one for me. Always trying to remember people's names.
When you go to the bathroom, lift up the toilet seat. And when you're done, put the toilet seat down and wash your hands.
Look to the left before you cross the road. Look to the right before you cross the road.
And that's like it like that for me is like, yes,'re young, like I want them to do that. But that's just like an analogy for life.
Like if you're not aware, you might get hit. So look to the left from the road, look to the left from the road.
Always be kind to mommy when daddy's away. Kindness always wins, always have courage.
Whenever you leave a camp counselor, a teacher, a mom or dad, tell them you're stepping away and I love you. And so those are the 13 things that we say every night.
And they really don't know exactly what all of those things mean yet. But you better believe that those kids pick up the toilet seat before they pee.
They put the toilet seat down when they're done. They're always kind to mommy when daddy's away.
We make sure that they protect each other. You know, they are not 100% on the ladies always go first thing yet, but they'll get there, you know, because that's a big one for me.
Anyway, it's just, it's something that we do. And, um, and then right after they do that, I say, boys, you know, I love you more than anything in the world.
And, you know, they go to bed. And these guys are real mama's boys.
I think I was too. They love their mom dearly.
And, you know, they love me too. I know that for sure.
But I know that they are, they feel, they know I got their back no matter what. And that makes me feel good.
And when they get a little older, you know, like there's going to be more, I think. The relationships are going to develop more.
But yeah, I think leadership is consistency with them, you know? Like, I think also, and it's hard, but like letting them on that they you know you can't always want your kids to like you you know and i think that's a tough one too like for a lot of parents new parents you know we're like it's hard to just like threatening kids is the worst thing you can do if you do that again we're we're leaving. Like we don't do that.
What do you do instead? Leave. You know, like if they're doing something that they know they shouldn't be doing, the last thing I want to do is like threaten my kids and be like the boy that cried wolf with my children, right? Like don't threaten.
Oh, you know, if you don't, if you do that again, no dessert. It's like, you just lost it, dude.
No dessert. Sorry.
Sorry. Tomorrow you can have dessert.
Today, no. Come on, what do you mean? No.
This is what it is, man. You got to learn.
You know, this is what it is. So, like, you can also, like, fall into the trap of, like, all right, we don't do that.
Because you don't care if the kids, you're not trying to make your kids be your best friend and like you at that moment. You're trying to teach them a more important, valuable lesson for life.
I am trying, I am the father and my wife is the mother. By the way, like, I hope to God that we're best friends, my sons, but you're nine, I'm your dad, I'm trying to teach you something i don't really care in this situation if you think i'm the best in the world i want you to like understand that life is tough at times and you have to take responsibility for your actions and so if you're constantly trying to make them feel good they're gonna get to get away with everything.
And then they're going to grow up all fucked up, you know. I totally agree with you 100%.
It's very, very hard though, right? Because everyone wants to – parents want to fix things. They want to soothe you.
But you're not – you're developing soft children when you do that. Well, you know, so this is one area where my wife and I just don't see eye to eye.
And it's been an, it's, it is a thing between us. And so there are some things in our marriage where like, I will, we'll just agree to disagree.
But like, if my sons start crying for the, like, I got no problem with you crying, by all means, something bad happens, you're sad about something, cry, I'm going to hug you, I'm going to love you. But you cry because you don't get what you want, I'm not consoling you.
I'm sorry. That's not a reason to cry.
I know you're trying to manipulate me is what you're doing. And if I go over there and give you a hug, I've just like, boom, granted you success.
You just won that one, my son. Like, no, you are running and you trip.
And I know that didn't hurt, but you want me to, like, if there is a single cry sound out of my kids, my wife is typically like, right there. And I'm just not that way.
And she hates that. She hates that, like, you that.
And I think there's definitely literature about that might not be the greatest approach with kids. If they're crying, they're looking for consolment.
If that's a word, they're looking to be consoled. But I'm kind of like, I got nothing wrong with crying.
But if you cry because if you cry for the wrong reasons,

I'm not going to co-sign that shit. Yeah.
I think that there is literature actually on what you

think and what you say. I'm on, I'm on team Michael for that.
I am because I think there's

one thing if you're crying because you're like, you got hurt or something like that. But just if

you're crying because you're trying to manipulate or you didn't get what you want, what do you

And then, we'll see you next time. you're crying because you're like, you got hurt or something like that.
But just if you're crying because you're trying to manipulate or you didn't get what you want, what are you teaching your children? If they make, if they cause a tantrum, you're like, they should just get what they want at all given at all times. Like, like, like childhood is a micro, it should be a microcosm for what happens outside.
People don't live in a vacuum, right? And I think that what's happening now is that kids are really becoming soft and they don't have any coping mechanisms because of the parents helicoptering around them and coddling them with every cry. Now, I'm not saying to your point that if a kid is crying because they're actually hurt, you don't console them.
You don't support them.

You don't help.

You don't comfort them.

That's the word you're looking, comfort them. But it's a different thing altogether if they're just crying because they're not getting what they want.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

You're just enabling bad behavior that way.

I also think just another form of leadership in parenting is like you can't expect your kids to want to do everything you do. You just can't, especially if it's hard.
But exposing them on a consistent basis to what you know makes you great in your life. My kids don't want to work out with me every day, but they know dad works out every day because they see it.
When you're modeling it, kids learn better through visual modeling versus words. I just had that woman on, I told you, who was a leading psychologist for children.
She was saying that fewer words, more modeling. Like kids learn through watching way more than through listening.
Yeah. I mean, they see me work out.
They see me work hard. They see me meditate in the sauna.
They see me go into fucking cold water all the time and think it's hilarious. But I expose them to all this stuff.
And they also see me come home for dinner every single night at 6 o'clock, you know. And so I do think that that that plays deeply into leadership, right? Like my father used to say shit like this to me.
Do what I say, not what I do. And in my opinion, that's just like that's like the opposite.
Yeah. Whoever who is going to want to listen to someone who says that do what i say not what i do like fuck you right like you're trying to teach a young like a like a kid coming up stepping into puberty do what i say not what i do like no be a man and do what you want other people to do don't say what you want other people to do in my opinion you know and so i think my kids sort of see that.
For sure they do. Okay, let's end this with your routine because we didn't get to it.
Remember I said there's a whole section about your actual routine. Let's talk about your routine and wrap it.
So I've got a few different routines now that I do in the morning. I've got my ideal, like all the bells and whistles, got all my shit, I'm in my groove routine.
And then I've got like my no matter what, like non-negotiable routine. And recently, I've actually started to flip a few things around because I haven't worked out first thing in the morning in a long ass time.
But when I got back from Europe, I was like, let me beat this jet lag. I'm just going to get up and like do my prayers and my pushups and go right into the gym to

start working out.

And I've actually really kind of loved that.

So I might start throwing that back into the mix a little bit.

But my kind of long, drawn out sort of morning routine that starts at 515 and finishes at

630 in the morning is basically this.

I wake up and one thing that I've been doing for a number of years now is super cheesy,

but really, really helpful for me is smile.

So I wake up in the morning.

I think that's smile first thing. I throw back my eye mask.
I look up at the ceiling and I smile shit eating grin ear to ear and I go like right into gratitude. And that gratitude is basically like I'm grateful for my wife sleeping next to me.
I'm grateful for the house we live in. I'm grateful for my health.
I'm grateful for my sobriety. I'm grateful I woke up.
I'm grateful for my kids and the dogs. I'm grateful for my truck.
I do like, I don't know, seven or eight things, 15 seconds. And I'm just like, boom, kick my day off with gratitude.
I get out of bed. I walk into the bathroom.
I take a piss. I wash my face.
And I used to weigh myself when I was competing in bodybuilding. I don't do that anymore.
And then I go downstairs to the guest bathroom because that's when I start making some noise. And my wife fucking hates if I do it in the main bathroom that early.
But I do, I pray. So I have a prayer practice that I've been doing for almost 20 years or 20 years now.
I'm sober 20 years. So I've been doing this prayer practice every single morning for a long time.
And then right after I pray, I do 50 push-. And right after I do 50 pushups, I do my stretches.
And that's like a five minute down dog, up dog, cat cow thing, just to get the blood flowing, pushups, prayers, prayers, pushups, and poses, I call it. And then I'll go into the guest bedroom.
And that's where I have my red light panel. And so I'll do meditating at the red light panel when I do that for about 20 minutes, 15 minutes.
And then I walk back out to the kitchen, I get a large jug of water with some electrolytes and some supplements that I put into the water. I've been loving these, these like, this liposomal, do you know that this liposomal, you know, anything about liposomal supplements? You got to check out Roe Nutrition.
You just got to check these guys out. They're fine.
It's amazing stuff. What is it? So it's liquid supplements.
And I take curcumin and resveratrol. I take NAD plus and I take glutathione.
I love glutathione. I take truniogen for NAD.
That's the best one, I think. And it's a precursor.
So it kind of tells your body to make it. Okay.
But so I've just been using this stuff. So I just do the liquid liposomal supplements.
And then I also throw some shilajit in there and I shake it up. That's a good one.
I like that. Yeah, there's a great.
Will you send me all that? Last time you were supposed to send me a recipe.

Do you remember?

What, my morning?

No, some pancake, but that's okay.

No, you made those pancakes.

Different pancake.

Different pancake.

So I do this.

I have this stuff, this company called Mana.

It's like the best shilajit pit basically ever.

And I put that in.

I shake it up.

And then I make my way out to the sauna. And I go out to the sauna.
and that's where I do my reading. So I read for like 20 to 30 minutes in the sauna, and then about 25 minutes in is the negotiation period with whether or not I'm going to go into the cold plunge.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I always go.
I go into the cold plunge for about three minutes. I walk out, take a peek in the mirror, say, Chernow, today's a good day.
You're a good man. Go get it.
And then I go out to the kitchen and that's when my kids and my wife are there. And so like, that's sort of like the morning routine that I did for a long ass time.
And I honestly, like, it's a lot of shit, but the truth of the matter is, is like, when I am doing that consistently, I am at my A game. I just am.
I'm at my A game. And in the beginning of the summer, it was hard because it was a lot of traveling.
So it kind of threw me off. But I was totally cool with doing my non-negotiables, which is basically piss, wash my face, push-ups, prayers, and poses, and like my meal one.
And that like, but, but, you know, I, I think that there is a level of flexibility we should all give ourselves with a morning routine. However, I do think there, it is, it is super important to have one.
Like structure in the morning, in my opinion, is just important. I, I totally agree.
Like if you don't have any direct, like if you wake up every day and you do something different, right? Like, you know, and for anybody listening, I don't make my bed every single morning because my wife is still sleeping. But like at the hotel, fucking make my bed right away.
Like it just feels good. Like I get up, I roll out of bed, I turn around, I fucking make the bed.
And having even the smallest thing, right? Like I have a company called Creatures of Habit. We make this high protein overnight oatmeal.
Those guys 20 years ago told me to have oatmeal every morning. It made me feel good.
I'm not saying that oatmeal is going to change your life, but it started me on the path of like making better decisions nutritionally. It was a gateway drug for you.
It was a gateway drug. Yeah, I totally agree.
And it kept you on point. These are things that keep you on point.
Why I like routine is because it keeps you on point to make better decisions later on in the day. That's it.
That's what it's for. That's it.
We've got to wrap this because it's been like forever. And you're falling asleep.
No, I'm not falling asleep. I actually really enjoyed this.
I thought you were really interesting. And I really love, you gave some really tactile, actionable information.
And I really did. So you mean you're going to, you're going to, you're going to, I'm going to post this one.
I am going to upload this one, not today, but I will. And I think you've come a long way, actually.
I think I'm glad, I'm glad that the other one didn't work out because I think you were much better on this podcast. You do? Yeah.
You were succinct and there was some really, really great takeaways. I love the parenting stuff.
I love the relationship stuff. I love the routine, of course.
I just want to finish with one thing. I think that if there's anything anybody should take away from this is this idea that like the one thing that I do think helped me most in my life is help.
And I think not enough people talk about that. And so if there's one thing you could take away, you know, the commitment stuff is important.
The commitment, confidence, courage, like that's a great one. But help was the one thing that actually changed my life.
And so I would just say, when in doubt, fucking ask for it. Just ask for it.
Don't be afraid. Don't be too prideful.
Don't like, help is the key to every successful venture ever taken in life by anyone. It's just help because guess what? You're not gonna do it alone.
No one does. No one does anything alone.
There's no such thing as a self-made man. It takes a village.
I love that. Ask for help.
That's the best takeaway. Yeah.
This is why I like you so much. Isn't he so likable, everybody? He's so like, you're so likable.
Thanks. If you like me that much, buy my fucking oatmeal.
Yeah, that's true.

Try his oatmeal.

It's very high in protein.

It's very stupid.

How many superfoods are in that thing?

A bunch.

It's got chia, flax, pumpkin seeds, pink and melane salt, D3, omega-3s, probiotic, digestive enzymes, vegan.

It's good.

It's good.

And there's 100,000 flavors of it too.

Not 100,000, but a lot.

Michael, you're amazing.

Also, check him out on Instagram.

At Michael Chernow.

Easy.

Easy.

Okay.

Bye.

Love you, Jen.

Love you.

I love you.

Thank you. Not 100,000, but a lot.
Michael, you're amazing. Also, check him out on Instagram.
At Michael Charnow.

Easy.

Easy.

Okay.

Bye. Love you, Jen.

Love you.

I love you.

Bye.