Episode 341: The Unfiltered Self: Unleashing Your Power Through Authenticity

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

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Today on Habits and Hustle, we have Sarah Jake Roberts with a new book.

She was first on the podcast with Women Evolve.

That was during COVID, right?

It was 2021.

Wow, three years ago.

Wow.

Time does go by.

I feel like there's times where I feel like I don't remember anything pre-COVID, in between COVID, and everything in between.

It's just all a blur.

It's such a blur.

I mean, and then, like, that's when I would, when I heard that you have another book out, I'm like, what do you mean?

Her book just came out.

And I'm like, oh my God, it was like three years ago.

I know.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

Time is constantly flying by, but I think that we're finally at a stage maybe where it feels like whatever normal was going to be after COVID, like, I think we're in it.

I don't think there's anything that's going to surprise us anymore from here.

I don't know.

I don't want to say that because it feels like from here, anything could happen.

Absolutely.

And, you know,

you've been up to so many things and I want to ask you about them, but I want to just introduce the book.

It's called Power Moves.

Yes.

And I love the name and I love the picture of you.

I mean,

I always tease Sarah that she has the best makeup and she always looks so on point.

I'm very jealous.

I'm very jealous.

It takes a lot of work.

Oh my gosh.

Well, you could help me because I did a lot of work.

What made you decide to write another book?

I mean, your brand is called Women Evolve.

Is this kind of,

what was the impetus for why you wanted to write this?

I really wanted to write this book because I was mesmerized by what I was seeing happening in the culture and also what I was seeing happening within just stereotypes and gender norms.

So to put it plainly, when I first started having this idea of power moves, I was thinking less about us making the types of decisions that are considered innovative and more about the reality that power is fluid.

I think at the time that I was writing, Queen Elizabeth had just passed.

And so we were seeing a transition of power in the United Kingdom.

We were also seeing women not just take leadership positions and begin to move into the forefront of prominent industries, but we were also seeing these same women saying that they were entering into their soft girl era, their healed girl era.

And I started recognizing that as much as we do want to break glass ceilings and we want to make sure that there's representation for women, we also wanted to have the flexibility of saying, but I also want to rest and I want to luxuriate and I want to be able to take time off.

And I saw within that, this concept of power moving, that it wasn't just about breaking glass ceilings.

It was also about going to your therapist.

It was also about taking care of your health.

And so it certainly is about how do we position ourselves to make a power move, but more importantly, it's about the fluidity of power and how even within my own life, what is me in a powerful moment, maybe on stage is completely different different than me as a powerful moment as a mother.

And the more that I became comfortable with the fluidity of power, the less restricted I felt in my own life.

And I wanted to give other people the freedom to just kind of move and flow in and out of different expressions of power without feeling like I've got to be married to this one expression of who I am, because over time, that can be very restrictive.

That's a really good explanation.

I mean, there's a part of your book, actually, I'm going to jump here for a second, that I felt really spoke to me.

And it was about like changing connections and how people in general in the world are very much

put in particular boxes and they have a certain stereotype.

Like, for example, you know, this is why it spoke to me.

Like, people think, oh, yeah.

Jennifer, she's a fitness girl.

You know, like she's a fit, you know, she does fitness on Instagram where she, that's, that's who she is.

When the truth of the matter is, I do do fitness, but not even a but.

And I'm also a business person.

I'm also a person who is a mom and and and and and I think that section of your book is such a truism in what we do, right?

We see you and we have a very we snap judge and put you in a box.

Does that something like why did you write that part?

How did that did that happen with you?

And how do we stop that from happening?

Because we can be two things at once.

We could be 10 things at once.

Yeah, man, this certainly happened to me.

The more that I began speaking, there was one word that people said to me over and over again.

They were like, You are a powerhouse.

That was powerful, power, power, power.

My obsession with interrogating what it means to have power started because people started saying I was powerful.

And the reason why I wanted to interrogate that is because I don't feel powerful.

Like I feel like a woman who is authentic, who's owning her voice, who's sharing her lessons.

So I was like, what does it feel like to feel powerful?

And what I learned is that they were experiencing one dimension of me being powerful.

And it was certainly meeting them in the area where they needed it the most, but I could not allow their experience of me to change the way that I show up in the world.

And so for me, giving myself permission to let power have different expressions.

So yes, I am when I am on stage and I am sharing my message.

There is an element of power in that.

But there's also power in me being at home, no makeup on with my bonnet and like playing with my kids.

There's power in that too.

And I believe that as we begin to embrace our own duality, that we are able to give other people permission to do the same.

And so I think that we have to consciously make the choice to not just see one dimension of who a person is.

Whenever we see someone trying something new, they're like, yeah, but don't they do music?

Or yeah, but don't they do that?

And we are training ourselves to limit ourselves just as much as we are limiting other people.

And maybe it is new and awkward and not, you're not used to seeing someone show up in that way, but we've got to get used to seeing people do things that are new and awkward so that we can do things that are new and awkward.

That fear that is embedded to us certainly can be from internal experiences.

But the other reality is that fear is often embedded because we are afraid that people are going to judge us the way that we judge other people when we do something that is outside of the way that they see us, even if it's always been authentic to us.

So we have some people who are maybe analytical, who have also been creative their entire lives.

Maybe they paint, maybe they make music, and all of a sudden they release it into the world.

I'm like, wait a minute, I thought that you were the numbers guy.

Well, I am the numbers guy, but I'm also the person who plays the guitar.

And when we make space for ourselves to be wide and expansive, we give other people permission to do the same.

That's a great, I mean, that's, that's, I love the way you say that.

And unfortunately, though, human nature is human nature, right?

So we can walk, we can hear you say that.

And in the moment, we're like, yeah, someone, I'm going to do that.

I'm going to be much more cognizant of how I view somebody and how I pigeonhole them.

But then what do we do action-wise, right?

How do we in ourselves not allow ourselves to get pigeonholed, not allow ourselves to be boxed in?

Because like you said, right, what happens is that

we have these core limiting beliefs that then get more ingrained in who we are.

You know, one of the things I'm really intentional about on my social media.

So, my husband and I, we co-pastor a church in Los Angeles.

We're on senior leadership positions on a church in Dallas.

And so, I know that immediately when people hear the word pastor, that there's a certain mindset they have when they think about a pastor.

And so, I am intentional in introducing all of who I am on all of the platforms where people have touch points for me.

So, you may see a message of me preaching, but you also may see a photo of me glammed up with an incredible outfit on.

But then you may see me with no makeup on, putting dots on my face and a bonnet.

Like I am intentional about introducing all of who I am on the platforms where people experience me.

I think that if we are committed to not being pinch and hold, whether it's within our friendship circles or it is within the platforms that we have, that we have to be willing to give expression to every version of who we are, to not allow ourselves to live secretly authentically, but to put it out as much as is appropriate in certain settings to make sure that people are not caught by by surprise when the full version of you or a different expression of you comes to the table.

And so to think about things intentionally when we are considering like, oh, I can't say that because they may think this or they don't know that about me.

We have to say it anyway.

Now, I'm not talking about just say anything that comes to mind, but to really begin to think about like, why am I so convinced that they don't have the capacity?

to hold all of who I am.

Why am I, even in our interpersonal relationships, there are often times where we don't want to go against the grain.

We don't want to let them know that I actually, the person we've been gossiping about, I'm actually feeling sorry about them.

But when we give it language, when we put it into the atmosphere, we are beginning to make sure that the people around us are also aware that I, there's more to me that meets the eye.

And it's on you to make sure that they have something that can meet the eye that is a reflection of what's inside of you.

That's super astute because you're right.

I've noticed with your, even your Instagram or your social media, there is a lot of differentiation, right?

You are super glammed up in some pictures and like, you know, like look just like, you know, coming literally like off the cover of Vogue, literally.

And then you are like, you know, getting dressed in your closet with your bonnet on your hair and super casual or working out.

And then, of course, you get these powerful speeches and then like the little clippets.

Like, so that, so you've been quite intentional in building that out and kind of showing people that that's just not like you just throwing stuff up there.

It was because you wanted people to kind of experience and see that you are multifaceted.

Absolutely.

The beauty of social media is that we can paint whatever picture we want.

The drawback of it is that if we aren't intentional, we'll get stuck in one frame.

And so it's funny because like I'll post like maybe glammed up pictures a few times in a row.

And sometimes they do really good numbers, but then there will be a moment where I like am just fresh face, you know, outside.

And it does way better than the glammed photos.

And it taught me just algorithmic within the algorithm that sometimes it's not just the glammed up photos, it's the diversity of being able to experience the fullness of who I am.

That I think has allowed a lot of people to feel connected to me because there are plenty of women I know who can like get all jazzy and dressed up to go out on a date or to go out with their girls and they look amazing.

But then we also know that like when we go to Target, we don't look like this.

And so to give them permission to be like, girl, you don't have to constantly show up this super buttoned up way in order for people to receive you.

Like if you make space for all of who you are to show up, people can handle it.

And even if they can't handle it, like you got to bring it to the table because you have to make space for all of who you are.

And that's been something ever since I realized that I was, you know, called to this purpose of serving other people and helping to give language.

and expression to my experience of God.

One of the things that I wanted to do, because I never thought I'd be a pastor, I never thought I'd be in ministries, I wanted to do it in a way that was authentic.

And I knew that if I could do it in a way that was authentic, I could reach people that maybe weren't used to experiencing sermons or coming into spaces of faith.

And so with that, I've been able to meet people on a human level and then to share with them what I'm learning and how I'm growing.

The word authentic, I feel, is such a broad word, right?

Because it's become very hashtaggy, right?

Like now everybody says the word authentic, authenticity.

But yet the majority of people, like to your point, still kind of are not being so authentic.

They're nervous, they're shy, they're scared, all the things.

So what would you say?

How do people get over their fear of being authentic?

And what really is authenticity to you?

Well, first of all, I think like power, authenticity is fluid.

Who I was authentically in my 20s is different than who I am authentically in my 30s.

And I I think part of the reason why we are afraid to be authentic is because we are afraid that we cannot maintain that level of authenticity or that if we change, that people will only come to expect that specific thing from us.

If we fail, then maybe they won't believe that, you know, we were good at whatever it is we were trying to pursue.

And so authenticity to me

is following

the inner voice, following your desires, identifying, I won't even say following, but being able to identify your needs, your wants, your offerings at any given moment, recognizing that whatever those needs, wants, and offerings are can change.

And if you are able to give them language and expression within your relationships, within your work, within your art, within your content, that is authenticity.

Authenticity is not curated.

It is simply your truth.

And so to be able to ask yourself, what do I want to say?

What do I need?

What do I need from this relationship?

I think even in relationships, we struggle to be authentic because we want to be who we think our partner wants us to be.

We want to be who our friends need us to be.

But to be able to ask ourselves the question, what kind of friend do I want to be?

And what do I need in return from this relationship?

And can I give it language?

That is authenticity.

And that is really, in my opinion, the building blocks for confidence to be able to identify and give language to those needs, wants and offerings at any given moment and to be able to release that into the world gives us confidence to know that i can advocate for myself i can make room for myself in these relationships in these rooms that i'm walking in that i can bring all of who i am and i know who i am and that is an incredible gift that we aren't often able to tap into because we aren't asking ourselves those questions.

Good.

I mean, listen, you know, you have a, you have such a gift for like speaking speaking in a way, like when you go on stage, like, where does that come from?

How are you able to get that from within you and speak so powerfully, even though it's fluid, in such a way that really, like, really touches people, resonates with people in such a,

it's, you, you're not like, you're, like you said, you're, you're in your 30s.

You've been doing this for a while.

And like, where does that power in that sense come from?

It matters to me.

Like that moment, for I see those moments as sacred.

I see those moments as life or death in many circumstances.

I've had a lot of people tell me, like, you have no idea that you

saved my life with that message.

And they mean, like, I don't mean this hypothetically, like, you saved my life.

And so, when I'm in those moments, I don't see it as a casual, entertaining moment to just capture some content that can go on social media.

My goal in that moment is to to express to them whatever it is that I am learning about life, learning about God, learning about transformation, about shame, about pain.

And I am passionate about making sure that they get it primarily because I know all too well what it's like to be engulfed in our trauma, to be blinded by our shame, to be tied up and knotted up in depression and anxiety.

And I really want to see people be free.

I spent, although I've been speaking for a few years now, I have spent most of my life ashamed, afraid, tormented, haunted, taunted, depressed.

And I still remember her.

I have not achieved my way out of holding her near.

As a matter of fact, one of the greatest joys of my life is being able to bring.

the 13-year-old pregnant version of myself, the 22-year-old divorced version of who I am into the my present moment.

And because I feel so close to those stages of my life, when I'm in a moment and I'm speaking, I'm speaking to people who I recognize are in those grasps.

And even now, like I'm raising teenagers, we have adult children and my parents are entering into a different stage of life.

And there's so much room for insecurity.

There's so much going on in the world that I feel like this is my opportunity to say something that matters.

And I could make noise.

or I could make change.

And it's important to me that I am free enough and clear enough to make sure that those who are on the other end feel like something is breaking through their, those voices in their head and saying something that grounds them to something that feels real.

What is the, I'm curious, like from all the, because, you know, I know in summertime, you, you actually were able to sell out a stadium full of women with your message.

It was unbelievable.

I thought it was, I heard that you were doing, where was it?

It was in Texas somewhere.

Right.

It was at Globelife Field, where is where it's where the Texas Rangers play, who went to the World Series afterwards.

I'm not saying that there was a correlation there, but if you said it, I wouldn't deny it.

Exactly.

Okay, there, there's, there's, exactly.

I'll say it.

Maybe there is something there.

Maybe there's something there.

I thought, like, I was when someone told me that, I'm like, oh, no, it can't be.

That place feels like, how many people go into that stadium?

We had 40,000 women there.

40,000 women.

Okay.

That number is unbelievably astounding.

I mean, like, I don't think, like, I don't think Beyonce can put 40,000 people, could she?

I mean, I'm not even sure.

For sure.

For sure.

Maybe Beyonce can, but like, there's not many others.

Like, maybe Taylor Swift, Beyonce, not Jennifer, maybe, I don't even think Jennifer Lopez.

I think that there's very few women who can carry a stage like that.

And so with all of that to be said, what is the one thing that you constantly hear from most women that they struggle with the most?

Is it the fact that they are, well, you tell me,

this is your domain.

What's the one thing that you hear the most that people say, you know, you really helped me with fill in the blank?

I want to say that what I hear the most from women is some iteration of you helped me to get unstuck.

I feel like a lot of women have felt trapped or stuck in their lives, that they have felt out of control or even powerless in their lives.

Now, the reasons why they feel this way way are varied, right?

There's childhood traumas, there's parental wounds, there's financial instability, there are circumstances surrounding education, like all of the reasons vary.

But for the most part, I think that women feel like I am alive, but not fully present.

And one of the things I hear the most is that women really do want to come to this space where they believe that they are in charge of their own lives, that they are capable capable of pursuing dreams and having visions that are not connected to where they've come from, that they have this limitless potential.

And I believe that what happens in spaces like Waman Evolve is one, you feel seen, which is powerful because when you are isolated and you feel alone, you feel like there's no way that you can get out, but there's safety in numbers.

And so, when you feel seen, it empowers you to glean from someone else's experiences.

And I believe that what's happening in the rooms, what's happening through everything that we do, whether it's our podcast, our courses, our tours, the books, I believe that what's taking place is quite literally resurrection.

And because I'm a person of faith, I do believe that there's like who we are now and there's like this divine version of who we're called to be.

And I believe that my job is to help you connect who you are now with the divine version that God had in mind when he formed you in your mother's womb.

And so what happens in those rooms, I think, is a resurrection of that divine identity that allows them to feel empowered to look beyond where they are now and to become curious about what could be.

Are you going to do it again this summer or what is the plan?

I am.

We're doing it again.

We've got 22,000 women registered so far and we haven't even like fully started, you know, releasing all of our speakers and our topics.

And so that's the next wave of me doing things.

But yeah, we're going to be in Arlington again, September 26th through the 28th.

That is amazing.

That is beyond amazing, honestly.

That is just,

that just goes to show you how, in that sense,

you are a powerhouse.

I hate to say it in that way, right?

Because it does resonate.

Like, people can find, even like someone who's not somebody who knows and follows

your faiths, right?

Like, I, you know, I'm Jewish, for example.

And I read, when I read this book, I felt and I, it, it still spoke to me in some ways.

You have a very good way of finding ways to connect to people that, and you're meeting them where they are, not where they should be.

And I think that that also is a reason why your message really hits home for so many people, you know?

Oh, I love that.

Thank you.

So I cannot tell you how many people are like, I'm an atheist, but I love your messages.

So I think that that speaks to the reality that like, you know, we need people who are willing to meet us where we are without rigid rigidity rigidity and rigidity yeah rigidity i think it's called yeah yeah and to to be flexible and nimble enough to say like hey i can see you no matter where you are absolutely let's get back to the book for a second because You got some great points here.

You talk about the power tank and power robbers.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

The power tank, power robbers, what are they?

Okay.

So, yes, I love the power tank analogy.

It blessed me so much because I go through life sometimes.

I'm like, oh my gosh, I am down to nothing.

I've got nothing left.

There's nothing I can do.

And then I get a phone call from a friend and she's like, Do you want to go to the movies?

I'm like, yes, girl.

The power tank analogy is like, if you can imagine that you are in a parking lot and there's like this row of empty spaces and there are reserve signs on each of these spaces and you have no idea what they are until you car start pulling in.

And then you realize that these reserved spaces are actually all the different hats that you wear and so maybe it says child or daughter maybe it says partner maybe it says founder friend sibling all of these different spots and what i learned is oftentimes we feel like we don't have enough power for our life but in reality it's that we don't have enough power to fulfill one part of our life and oftentimes we're going throughout our day and we're kind of moving from one car into the next.

And to be able to take a minute when we're transitioning from roles, because I'm doing this all the time, like right now now, I'm with you.

In a minute, I'm going to be going to pick up my daughter.

And I have to see like how much power do I have in my tank to show up as the person that maybe she's expecting.

And then what adjustments do I need to make or what break or breath do I need to take in order to live up to that or to modify that to meet where I am?

And so I challenge people in the book to think about all of the roles that you play and to gauge your power tank for each of those.

roles to determine what additional support do you need in order to show up in that space.

I think this is also very powerful because oftentimes, if we're having a problem in one area of our life, maybe professionally things aren't going well, we'll think to ourselves, our whole life is going down the drain, but you're still an awesome friend.

You're still an incredible sibling, you're still amazing at whatever art it is that you do.

And just because you're suffering or you're low in one area doesn't mean that you're low all around.

And so, the goal with the power tank analogy is to empower people to see their lives as something that is broad, but also nuanced so that they can pinpoint the area where they actually need support and to identify those robbers.

Like, what is it about this that drains my power?

What is it about this that I need to change my perspective or change the way that we engage so that I'm not always leaving empty or always feeling like inadequate when it's time for me to step into whatever this role is?

That's a great.

I love that analogy.

I do.

How often are you on stage?

Like, what is this?

What is your schedule?

Like, give me a day in the life of what you do.

Like, what is the habits that you do?

What is your, I mean, I know you're a hustle, but what's your habits and how you

kind of go about it?

Because that takes a lot of emotional energy, obviously, brain energy.

There's a lot there.

How long does it take you to even prepare for one of your sermons?

It probably, like, I would love to have a full week to prepare for a message, but I usually have, I'm getting better, especially when it comes to speaking in Dallas on Sundays.

I usually have some advanced notice, but I really start drilling in probably about five days before it's time for me to speak.

And it comes with me, like, really breathing, centering myself first.

So I don't always go, like, what am I going to speak about for them?

I have to center myself, like, how are you?

What's going on in your world?

What are your needs?

Because I have to be anchored before I can attempt to anchor anyone else.

And sometimes in the process of me anchoring myself, I start thinking about some of the things that I know that are happening in the world, things that I've maybe heard other people share with me.

And it comes, it becomes clear to me that like in some way, we're kind of all facing the need to embrace difficult conversations.

And then I begin to study, you know, what it looks like for us to embrace difficult conversations, what keeps us from doing it, how do we engage in making it happen?

And then I build my message out based on that.

I'm very intentional about asking myself, okay, this is maybe something that applies to a 30-year-old black girl millennial, but what does this mean for a 60-year-old woman in Indiana?

What does this mean for a white man in New York?

Like, does this apply to everyone?

And sometimes it doesn't, and it's just for a particular audience, but sometimes it does.

My job, we have about 80,000 people watching every Sunday and 6,000 people in person.

My job is to make sure that I have a message that is broad enough and wide enough to meet any possible circumstance that's in that room.

And that requires me being completely reliant on my relationship with God and prayer, but also being intentional about making sure that I am taking off my worldview and imagining what it's like for other people who are facing circumstances that maybe I can't relate to, but I am exposed to because I'm able to view things on social media or even begin to read things about what's happening in the world.

Wow.

So then here, because you go up there for how long, approximately?

About 45 minutes to an hour.

And so are you just are you just jotting down when you prepare notes of what you want to talk about or do you have because you seem to be it's it seems very fluid like you it's like you go you're not reading us you're not reading from a cue card i mean you just talk

so when i finish it is hard when i finish all my research

i uh i organize my research like so this is where i want to start this is where i want to end i usually find out the end first and then I begin with how I'm going to start it in the room.

And then I am just constantly marinating on that.

Like I'm reading it over and over again.

I'm thinking about it all of the time.

So by the time I get up there to speak, I am not as married to my notes as some people may be.

And maybe I should be more married to my notes, but I am not as married to my notes because I've digested the information and now it's my time to just share what comes up to the surface.

I mean, I'm grateful that I am able to retain a lot of the information because it's a conviction.

It comes from my heart.

And so I'm able to kind of move freely without being married to my notes most of the time.

Every now and then I'll go back just to make sure that I haven't missed anything that was really important.

But I don't just come up with something and get up there and start speaking.

Like I am marinating on it.

So by the time I get up there, I'm ready for it to like, let's, let's put it in the oven.

Let's start cooking.

Because like this thing, I always think about that with you and Torre and everybody in your space that does these things, but you do it so exceptionally well.

Is that, you know, like when I got ready for one TED Talk, okay, it's like 18 minutes long.

You know, people prepare for like, you know, three months, four months for like this little snippet to get your, get your message, like an idea worth sharing, right?

And then there's people like you who are like, okay, I got to go up on Sunday.

I got to do some exceptional, moving, powerful speech for 45 minutes again.

Like it's every week.

I mean, how do you think of these things week after week?

And you've been doing it, God, girl, for so, I mean, it is for a really long time.

And like, every speech is better than the next.

So I'm going to tell you, let me tell you, I'm, it stresses me out.

And you know, when I first started speaking, because my father is in ministry, when I first started speaking, people were just kind of like, you know, oh, this is TD Jake's daughter.

And she's going to say something.

They had no expectation.

The bar was so low.

I loved it.

Cause like when the bar is so low, you can't win, you can't lose.

Like the bar is just on the floor.

the more that i began speaking and people were like oh my gosh that was powerful that was transformational it it got stressful for me because now when people are coming they're like oh my gosh she's gonna tear the roof off this place this is gonna be amazing and i'm like is she is she gonna tear the roof off this place we don't know so no one is more surprised than myself when i get up there and things are going well and i can get very energetic i'll be like yes we got another one uh but i think it's about like surrender and obedience.

I think that's the only reason why it keeps on happening.

Do you guys help each other?

Do you and Torre, like, you know, bounce ideas off of each other?

Do you like, do you, like, how does it work?

Cause you guys both do the same thing in a different way, but kind of not, right?

Like, you guys are like, yeah, because, and then we have completely different styles too.

Sometimes, yeah, we'll say, this is what I'm thinking about speaking, but we don't ever like get in the details, into the weeds with one another.

If I'm super tired and I'm like, my brain is not working at all, maybe we'll do a little mental sparring.

But most of the time, one of us is either about to speak or the other one is getting ready to speak.

So like someone's always about to speak.

And so it can be hard to like hear their thoughts and organize your own thoughts.

So we're just like, you know what?

Good luck.

I'm praying for you.

And I'll see you at the finish line.

So because we don't want to be, our thoughts can just get tangled up together.

And then how do you not repeat yourself, right?

Because like, do you go back to different topics that you did already, like maybe, you know, from six months ago and then recycle it?

Because people don't remember.

I mean, I would imagine, you know, they are not going to really remember.

There's so much.

There's so much content.

There's so much content.

No, I'm sure that we are repeating ourselves in many ways, and which is good because sometimes repetition is necessary.

But I will say that for me, when I am studying, like.

Anytime I have something new to study for, I feel like I have something new to say.

So maybe it's just my perspective and experiences have changed since the last time I had the conversation.

And so I have a broader perspective to bring to the table.

There have been moments where I listen to maybe a podcast or someone I admire, and it made me change the way that I think.

And then I'm looking at things completely differently.

So even though I know for sure that there have probably been things that felt very repetitive, I have never gone up there and it's intentionally repeated something I've said, but I know that it's been in the flow of me echoing things before.

So do you speak at the one at one in LA and in your at your dad's church, right?

And in Dallas?

I speak more frequently.

It's in Dallas.

I speak more frequently in Dallas than I do in LA.

I used to speak in LA all the time and occasionally in Dallas, but my girls are in school here.

I have a high schooler and an elementary kid.

And so, and I'm a really hands-on mom.

So it works out easier for me to be more present here.

But we have a women's event that we have been bringing to LA called Hey You.

So I get an opportunity to go out there a little bit more now.

Wow.

So then you go, do you and Tori speak at the same time?

Like not the same time, but do you go on the stage and then he comes on?

Or is it always separated?

Like, oh, you know, this Sunday, you're on.

Next Sunday,

we're usually taking turns.

We're alternating.

So never the same time.

Like it's never two people at once.

No.

And so like, so get, so run me down a day in the life of you.

Cause I was kind of like, that was kind of what I'm, well, we're all super curious.

Okay.

I am anyway.

So I wake up.

What time do you wake up?

If I am working out before meetings, I wake up at 4:30.

I box.

I strength train and then I box.

And then I shower.

4:30.

Yeah.

How often are you doing that?

About like three to four times a week.

What time are you going to bed?

Too late, like 10 or 11.

I need help.

Wow.

Yeah, I know.

It's bad.

I'm, it's bad.

I, I really want to do better on getting to bed earlier.

That's like one of my missions this year.

I don't go to bed early enough.

Wow.

Okay, girl, that's a lot.

That's early and then late.

So, okay, 4:30.

So, by the time I finish working out, showering and getting dressed, it's about 6.45.

And I make sure my girls are up.

I make them breakfast.

I take them to school.

I come back to my home office and I usually take meetings, do things around the house that have needed to be done.

Sometimes I'm getting on a plane and taking a quick trip.

But for the most part, in a normal day, I'm coming home.

I'm taking meetings, doing podcasting, all of those things until about 2.30.

And then I go pick my girls up and I bring them home.

That's about an hour and a half of my day.

And then I come back around four.

I finish up whatever meetings I have.

And then I try to spend the rest of the evening.

We have dinner and eating and engaging with them.

I read my eight-year-old a bedtime story every night.

PT, my husband, and I take turns on that.

I fill in on all the 14-year-old drama that my daughter's going through.

And

that is a normal average day.

That's when my life feels anchored and steady and stable.

Right now, things are tossed up.

Like I was in LA yesterday.

This morning, I did the same routine.

Yeah, I was in L.A.

yesterday.

I was in Raleigh on Saturday speaking at an arena event.

So that I prefer the day that I just told you about, but I haven't had a routine like that for a couple of months now, just because of everything with the book.

Right.

Exactly.

When does the book actually come up?

What's the drop date?

April 30th.

April 30th.

Okay.

Wow.

So you're like very hands-on.

Like for someone as busy as you, you really are somebody who really prioritizes being a mom.

I am.

It's amazing.

It's really important to me.

I grew up in a family that was very busy, and my parents were first-generation everything.

I was born on welfare.

Like my parents call me a welfare baby, and our lives changed tremendously as a result of my parents' work ethic and sacrifice.

And I think one of the things that I am grateful that I get to do is continue that work ethic, but also maintaining just a priority on the family unit.

And so it's like one of the things that I love the most is being present with them.

I don't like, I have a personal assistant that doesn't mind helping me with the girls.

If I'm like needing, one's going to volleyball, one needs to be picked up here, but we don't have any child care.

Like PT and I split it up between ourselves.

That's incredible because, you know, most people who aren't even quarter as busy as you living where I am in LA, they have so much help where the kid, like they're basically outsourcing parenting.

Yeah, right.

And that's, I refuse.

Yeah.

And kids feel that you know there's a lot of research backing all that which is not what this podcast exactly is about but that's really commendable and i love that i love that you you said that and i've met your mom and she's a she is something that woman i loved her

she is she's got such a great personality and she's no nonsense i mean for sure

that's amazing so then when you were born.

So when did when did things shift in your life?

If you said you were growing up on welfare, that's a major swing, you know, upward swing.

Like you've lived, you've basically lived on both sides of the pendulum.

So things began to change probably in like 1995, 1995, my dad's life began to take off.

He self-published a book that ended up becoming wildly successful.

Over a million copies sold back then, which was amazing.

And he was literally selling them out of his trunk and then like having them duplicated and selling them throughout the country.

And then he's always been into real estate outside of ministry, just having all of these different endeavors.

And so 96, we moved to Dallas.

And from that stage, I think everything just exploded and the books and the films and everything, real estate, everything that he was doing then was just multiplied.

So it was, I mean,

I'm sure for him, it didn't feel like overnight because he worked so hard to get to the point.

But given my childhood perspective, it was an overnight shift and it was amazing and alarming and overwhelming.

And like, where do we fit in all of this?

And just trying to find our space in that world was challenging.

But I am grateful that one thing my parents were really intentional about is making sure that we stuck together.

Even if they weren't exactly sure how to make us feel maybe valued in a world that was moving that fast or seen in a world that was moving that fast.

One thing they did make sure sure we do was stick together.

And so now that we're back in Dallas, I'm here.

All of my siblings are here.

And it's been really restorative to be here as adults and to look like, oof, we made it to the other side of what was a whirlwind.

Wow.

I mean, that's incredible.

I didn't, I didn't realize.

You must have been how old then when that 19, like I was eight or nine.

Wow.

So you were old enough to kind of remember the shit.

Like, no, the shit.

For sure.

And now, especially my daughter's eight.

So being able to see my daughter at eight years old is helping me to realize just how traumatizing it was to go from like, wow, you know, you're friends with everyone and everyone's like family into this world where like people have ulterior motives and some people care about you just because you're someone's daughter.

And then some people don't care about you at all because you're not that person.

And so I can imagine at her age what that experience would be like.

And so it's helped me to be a lot more compassionate and patient with myself.

And I'm sure it's easier in a way to live where you are now than being in Los Angeles, because it is more so like that when you're here.

Like people are much more

about who you are, what you do, how you can help me.

And it's much more superficial.

And to say, I live here, I'm Canadian.

I can say it.

I see it all the time.

And it's, I feel a lot of my friends who've moved from Los Angeles to Texas, to, you know, Austin mostly, but have really had a beautiful life change in a lot of ways.

In a lot of ways.

It's weird because when we left LA, you could not have told us that.

Like we kind of went reluctantly, but we were just like, want to explore what life in Texas could be like for us.

And our quality of life here has been just really beautiful.

It's a slower pace.

We're in the middle of the country.

So travel is amazing.

It's like, hey, do you want to go to New York for dinner?

Or, hey, I've got a speaking engagement in North Carolina.

Like, I would say no to most of this stuff when we lived in LA because it's so taxing to travel from LA.

But to just like get on the highway and there not be any traffic, to be able to take your kids to school every day and not feel like you lost four hours of your life sitting on the 101, our quality of life has significantly improved.

I think LA, though, I mean, the weather is great.

It's laid back in a different type of way.

It's so diverse and cultural that, I mean, it certainly has a lot of its benefits.

But I do think that for where we are right now, this slower pace for our high-paced life has offered us a really nice intersection.

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Do you mind if I ask you a couple more questions about the book?

Sure.

Okay.

There's a line in the book, by the way, that I loved.

You said, rest is better than regret.

Can you just explain what that means?

Well, when we get burnt out and we are overworked and we are pressured to make decisions, we often don't make the best decisions.

And so to be able to not make a decision at all is a superpower to say, as much as I would love to make this life-altering decision right now so that I can have my life moving in a specific direction.

If I make it from a space of anxiety, of being weary, of being burnt out, then I can't trust the decision I'm going to make.

And so to be able to rest, even, you know, we talk about it with married couples, like never go to sleep angry at your partner.

Yeah, maybe not go to sleep angry at your partner, but maybe rest before you talk to your partner so that you can really qualify, like, what was a high emotional moment?

What is something that really is legitimately needing to be worked out within the context of your marriage.

And so I just really wanted to advocate for power having different expressions.

And sometimes it's not just making a boss move immediately and saying YOLO will live with the results.

Just YOLO has burnt a lot of people.

Totally true.

Okay.

Totally true.

Let's take a nap.

Let's get a Snitch bar and let's revisit this when you've had a minute.

100% agree.

By the way, I didn't ask you earlier, what would you have done if you didn't do this?

Like, what would you,

what would you, what do you like to do?

Like, what do you, obviously, you're good at makeup but would you have been like a makeup artist like what would you have done like what are your passions i love cooking cooking i love cooking I love that you take all of these.

I don't know that I have control issues, but if I had control issues, one of the reasons why I would like cooking is that you take all of these scattered ingredients, you put something together and immediately, right there in the moment, you know what the outcome is going to be.

And you can, to a

certain extent, control that outcome.

and i love it i just love the science behind cooking i like doing hair i always tell my husband like i'm if this doesn't work out i'm going to like open a catering business and maybe get my cosmetology license during the pandemic i started doing all different types of hairstyle even now my kids will be like um my bonus kids call me madre and they're like oh i couldn't find someone to do my hair so i'm just asking madre to do it i'm like does madre look like she has a license like i can just do anything and they believe in me so i believe in myself so it would probably still be something very much so around like nurturing people and taking care of their needs, but just with a different method.

Yeah, I got that.

And you, so are you cooking every, like not every night, but when you're at home, do you cook?

You actually are the one cooking the food like every night?

Not every night.

When we,

when we moved to Texas and we no longer had an astronomical child care bill because our girls were in school and we didn't need a nanny, I requested that we transition that

fund into having meals prepared.

And it has been one of the greatest blessings of my life, especially because like with so many people in our house, someone's like, I'm, someone's vegan this week, someone's pescatarian, the other person wants to, I'm like, you know what?

I can't do it.

No, it's impossible.

It's very hard.

I know.

Trust me.

It's, it's like the bane of my existence.

It really, actually, really is.

And it takes the joy out of it because I like cooking, but it's like, I do not like the pressure of, is dinner ready?

Is dinner ready?

Is dinner ready?

Like, it just, I want to, I like to cook when I can just like, I think it was Monday night.

I just like threw down.

I made a huge spread for my entire family, but I like to do it when it's fun.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And then when you're saying earlier, by the way, about the 4.30 wake-up call, when you're not working out, what time are you waking up?

Six.

At six o'clock.

So it's still early though, but not

that crazy.

Yeah.

And then if PT takes, sometimes we alternate who takes the girls to school.

He travels more than I do.

So I feel some of the heavy lifting on that.

But when he is in town, he makes sure to like work overtime to make sure that I'm getting those days off.

And then like, if I sleep until 8 o'clock, I have like slept in for the day.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I know.

But at 4.30, it's very, very early.

It is.

I like it though.

I think it's also pride, though, because when you get up at 4.30 in the morning to work out, like, now this is pride.

It's arrogance.

Don't write this down.

You You don't want to copy this.

There is a part of you that's like, I am better than most people because no one in their right mind is getting up at 4.30 in the morning.

So I do like the idea of it.

It feels very intense.

I think I have intense personality traits.

And so it feels very intense to be like, not only am I up at 4.30, I'm up at 4.30 wrapping my hands so that I can box.

Like that's got to be intense.

That is very, I mean, listen,

that's a boss move right there.

I think that's amazing that you can do that.

Honestly, 4:30, wrapping your hands.

That's pretty amazing.

The other thing is, I wanted to ask you when it happened, but I never really spoke to you, was I saw this video when by, I think it went kind of viral when you were like speaking on stage.

Remember, you were like super passionate.

And I think like your like hair piece fell off and like you just kept on going.

Does everyone always ask you about that?

They, you know, I have not, I did not do any press when that first happened, though.

I got a lot of requests.

And now that I'm doing press for power moves, I am being asked that a lot.

Oh, really?

Yes, that was quite a moment.

It was definitely not something that I would have wished happened.

But and it did, I mean, it went, it did go kind of viral.

But yeah, I had on a wig and it was like not, I guess the glue decided it was going to take an off day.

And

someone, it was so funny because when I'm speaking, it's not uncommon for people to like stand to have their hand up.

And I noticed that like I looked over and this woman was like pulling.

It was like she was pulling a wig down.

And I was like, well, that's an interesting praise.

And then I went to the other side and another woman was like yanking her like her imaginary wig down.

I was like, I think they're trying to tell me my wig is falling off.

But at that point, the glue has given up.

I can't just reattach it.

And so, and I wasn't finished speaking.

So I took it off and I completed my sermon.

And people were talking about just how brave and courageous it was.

I think some people were trying to say, like, I planned it.

I would never plan anything like that.

And then when that moment was over, I basically turned into a puddle in the back hallway.

I was like, what in the world just happened to you?

I was in unbelief.

But it worked for you, really, right?

Because people saw that you were human and that, like, you just kept on going and that you did.

Like, it's like things like that happen.

Like, the whole part of life, right?

Is like, it's not about always being perfect.

It's about being resilient.

And, and, and when you fall or something flails, you're able to get right back up again, dust yourself off and keep on going and trying.

And so that's what I think it represented.

Like you didn't like run off the stage and cry right away.

You may cry after the fact, right?

But not the moment.

And I think that was a really interesting, I think that like was very,

it was a very good message to give people, right?

Like there's been times I was doing this speaking

engagement and

the person before me, they tripped when they were going up, like up the stairs, and they fell on their face.

And they were so mortified that they like walked off the stage and they didn't, they didn't do their speech.

They were so mortified.

And I was like, you know what?

That's like such what kind of message.

And by the way, the whole message was about resilience.

The whole thing was talking about resilience.

Really?

Wow.

So what my point is, I just find when people actually like are, they, they do what they say, they say what they do, your message is about power, fluidity, like being authenticity, resilience.

And so, when that happened, I'm like, good for her.

Like, you know what?

She just kept on going.

She did not let it, and even if it did phase you, it didn't really look like it phased you.

And you got that, you got, you left, you came back, and it was just like, that's it.

I love that.

I just thought it was a really like, I love when I love seeing that happen, even though you probably didn't love it happening.

But I think it represented something bigger at the end of it, you know?

I did not love that it happened.

But to your point, I think I only thought it was going to be something negative.

And then when it happened, and I posted it on my social media before anyone else could post, because with that many people watching, like I knew it wasn't going to be a secret.

And so I'm like, I'm going to put it out there.

And then I'm just going to live my life.

So many of the comments were overwhelmingly positive that it made me rethink the way that I was looking at it because I did feel resilient in the moment.

I'm like, I have to stand up to this.

I'm not going to back down.

I'm not going to quit.

So I'm going to see this thing all the the way through.

And then I will lick my wounds when it's over.

And I thought I was going to lick my wounds, but there were so many people who were like, That helped me more than you know.

Like, to be able to see you still stand tall, to see you, you know, I think, especially for women where our appearance and our image is held at such a high standard, to see someone say, Hey, I can do that, but also I could take this off and still keep it pushing.

I think that meant a lot to people.

And I didn't know it in the moment.

And I'm grateful.

I'm grateful that it had that, you know, that perspective connected to it, because I was totally prepared to just be humiliated and made fun of.

But there were a lot of people who came back and told me, like, thank you so much for doing it.

Yeah.

I think it just, it just showed such strength in your personality and who you are personally.

I think that was like, there was nothing negative, in my opinion, that would have happened from that.

Like, what?

So, you know, you, your, your wig fell off, big deal, right?

It's more what you did with it after.

Now, the last thing I want to, I've always, I never, I always wanted to ask Tori, and I never ended up asking him, but like, do you have any audio?

Like, do you have men who are in the audience?

Is it all women who are your demo?

Or like, do you, what is it?

Are there men?

What, if so, how many?

Is it like a smaller?

So, our church is 50-50, male and female.

And what's so funny is my dad's church is a little bit, I mean, it's more traditional than my husband's church in Los Angeles.

But that Sunday, when the wig thing happened, a gentleman who's on staff at our church, he's like, he's in his 70s, and he reached out to me and he said, there were grown men crying in the lobby when you took your wig off, like grown men.

And I think it had a lot to do with the context of the message.

And then that happening within the context of the message, I think just reinforced what I was speaking about.

But yeah, I think for us, it is not uncommon for women to be the backbone of our communities, the backbone of our family.

And though there has certainly been patriarchy and misogyny as it relates to spaces of religion and faith, because there is such a reverence for womanhood and women have been the main contributors to what we experience, especially as church within our context, there is a space and capacity for the men who are experiencing those moments to not just validate, but receive from the women who are not that much different from their mothers who raised them, their sisters who were they were raised with, and their daughters who they are bringing up as well.

And so, I'm grateful that as we talk about power moving, that we're seeing the pendulum swing in the direction of equality as it relates to gender, even in spaces of faith, because I think it's high time that we have an opportunity to show full representation of what it means to just be made in the image of God and to show up as co-creators and co-partners in creating whatever this experience on earth is going to be.

Wow.

Well, very well said, said, Sarah.

That's very nice.

A good ending to this podcast.

I mean, thank you.

By the way, thank you so much for just being on this podcast.

I'm sorry, again, it was virtual.

This was not the way I would have loved to have this thing done.

But

like I said, I love that you came on.

I love your husband.

I love you vis-a-vis your husband as well.

And I love the book.

And it's called Power Moves.

And I really believe that, like I said, even if you're not somebody who is a religious person or someone, it doesn't matter if you're atheist, Jewish, whatever, you can find something and glean something from this.

So the message is great.

You're great.

And like I said, thank you for being on this, on the podcast today.

Thank you, Jen.

I really appreciate you.

And I can't wait for us to get together in person.

Thank you for what you're doing, your work and your art.

I have to tell you that so many women that I know have been personally impacted by your gifts and your offerings.

So thank you so much for what you're pouring into the world.

We need it.

Oh, you're so kind.

Thank you, Sarah.

And let me know when you're here so we can see each other in person.

Please.

I would love that.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Oh, tell people.

Oh, by the way, by the way, we didn't know.

No, don't leave yet.

Tell them where they can find.

Most people know, but if you're not someone who is familiar with Sarah, please tell them where they can find you and all the things, Women Evolve, everything.

Sure.

So Woman Evolve is Woman Evolve on social media.

That's Woman Singular, not plural, but Woman Evolve on all of the social media platforms.

And then womanevolve.com has all of our resources and events.

And then my name is Sarah Jakes Roberts.

That's Sarah with an H.

And you can find me on all of the socials or on my website at SarahJakesRoberts.com.

Thank you so much, Sarah.