Episode 342: The Interplay of Fitness, Attraction, and Dating In Today’s World with LA-Based Fitness Trainer, Liron Kayvan

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

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This is gonna, I'm so excited about this episode.

Okay, this is Fitness Friday with Friends.

And why I love this episode, it's about men and women and what's attractive to the opposite sex and what women want, what men want.

We talk about this sometimes.

And I believe this is kind of like health fitness because it's about like, I hate to say it, but it's a little bit about like your aesthetics, your vanity, like how women train, how men train, what women are doing because they think that they're going to attract to men more and vice versa.

Like I love all this stuff.

So let's talk about this.

So my guest today is my friend Leron.

He is a fitness personal coach, a fitness coach, strength training coach in LA.

And he lives nearby me and I asked him to come here and be my friend today.

We had no other friends once.

Once every 10 years it happens.

Exactly.

And, you know, Leron and I used to like, we used to kind of work out together a little bit, but we became more friends than anything.

I don't, we used to work out at Equinox.

We saw each other.

We actually, we worked out beside each other, really, more than working out together.

Maybe we did like one or two exercises together.

Yeah.

Show me something, I'd show you something.

Yeah, exactly.

That's how friends are made in the fitness world.

That's true, right?

That is like we actually like parallel play.

You know what kids are playing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And same with the fitness friends, right?

Like you parallel workout.

And you still have your routine, so like, you know, you borrow one or two things, but like, you're not going to throw your whole thing out.

Exactly.

Like, I'm not really bothering you and your workout.

You're not really bothering me and my workout.

Parallel play.

That's what it is.

It is.

It's like parallel play.

But for fitness, like fitness play.

Like, it's exactly the same thing.

But you were actually, you kind of like worked out with my friend.

And that's how I kind of met you.

You like parallel played with her a little bit.

You know, making it sound very...

Well, didn't you parallel play?

Okay.

Well, no, you did.

I'm not saying you pair.

That's not like a euphemism for something else.

You parallel played.

Like you worked out beside each other.

No, I'm definitely a parallel player in general.

100%.

Because I like my uh, I like I do things my way,

and I like, I like to, I'm very social, but it's, I don't know, maybe it's a Gemini thing, if you believe in that stuff.

But I like, I'm very social, but then I also have a very strong sense of like, this is what I want to do.

And, you know, yeah, I'm like that with everything, not just fitness.

It's not just fitness.

No, yeah, it's a personality trait.

Just a personality trait.

Okay.

I'm like that with fitness, actually.

Like, I'll work out with you, no problem, but I want to get my own shit done first.

You know, like, let me work out first and then we can do whatever yeah you know also be a high high achiever thing you know like someone yeah I think more driven people are like that they don't just like otherwise you're you're like a leaf in the wind you know you're going everywhere this person's doing this and then you're jumping on this new fad and you know you lose your part you know it's funny because a lot of my friends who are like really into health like really into like fitness and like all the things like that, they also don't love to work out with people.

Like I'll say to people, thinking it'd be like a nice social you know, like, hey, let's, you know, we can, we can talk, we can work out together.

And more often than not, they're like, meh, let me just do my own thing.

Why don't we meet after?

Yeah, we'll be off.

Yeah, anyway.

Meet off the Vakosa.

100%.

Like, we'll get a shake after.

And I thought, okay, that's actually way more preferable for me.

I just tried to be friendly.

But I think a lot of people who take their fitness seriously do feel that way.

But I think it's a really great gateway drug, so to speak, for people who aren't, they don't love fitness.

They don't love to work out.

And it's a really great way to get people to exercise is to do it with your friends and like motivate each other.

So, if you're somebody who doesn't love working out or you need to start a program and you need to get that kick in your ass or that little bit of motivation, definitely, you know, try doing it with a friend and then use like a goal, like, say, you know, let's train for this half marathon or for something because then it keeps you engaged.

Oh, yeah, you know, so those are that's a that's a quick, a quick little tip, yeah, a little tidbit.

Okay, so in like the last episode, we started to talk about, we actually were talking about like training, like training styles for men and women, like how women like to train, how men like to train.

And it kind of went into this whole other conversation about like what women think men want and men like, you know, aesthetically and what men think women like aesthetically.

And you're saying that like women usually think that the skinnier they are, the more attractive that they are to men, which is actually quite the contrary, right?

Even though, do you remember like in the 80s when Kate Moss was, you know, she was like the hottest thing in the world?

I was born in 88, but yeah, I okay, no, 90s.

She was she was in the 90s, sorry, 90s.

Kate Moss was the English one, yeah.

Who like went off the rails or something?

I don't know.

I think so.

She was like the Calvin Klein model.

Yes, very good.

She dated Johnny Depp.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She was like,

she made that waif look

like really popular.

Yeah.

And so every girl thought that that was the like the way to go.

Yeah.

And when I was a first a personal trainer, that's what everyone wanted.

All the women came and they said, I just want you to turn me into this like lamppost.

And I was like, okay, sure.

Right.

But then let me say this.

Over time, things evolved.

And Kim Kardashian became really popular.

And then like having a really big butt was like the biggest thing in the world.

And then that's what everyone wanted.

And they still, I mean, like, it's still, it's kind of like losing its like, it's kind of losing its

cachet.

I don't know if that word word cache is kind of losing its like status or like cachet or like people like are now like kind of the pendulum is kind of swinging the other way again.

Yeah.

But everything like is cyclical, like decades, you know, like either it's the look is being a waif, it's being voluptuous, like Marilyn Monroe was very voluptuous.

And now we're kind of like in that like, you know, big, you know, big butt, small waist, and people are getting those Brazilian butt lifts.

And I think we're in

a dangerous time because this is something in

human history that's never happened before.

Many things actually.

But in the fitness/slash fashion world, it's fake bodies.

It's plastic bodies.

And that is, I think, dangerous.

So I said this on the last episode where I've seen a lot of women who are naturally very beautiful or even just like whatever, sevens, eights, nines, even sixes, whatever.

Doesn't matter.

Wherever they are, they had their natural beauty.

And then they were just like, I'm going to just, I want to be like whoever, famous person, dot, dot, dot, and they became plastic.

They got a fake butt or fake lips or fake whatever.

And they instantly dropped down.

And, and usually, women don't recover from that.

I'm saying this as a man.

Yeah, tell me.

Well, you notice, okay, is that more of an LA thing?

Or I heard.

I don't think anymore.

It starts in LA.

That's what I'm doing too.

England's like that too.

Well, I think that, like, it used to be that LA was known for like that fake, you know, plastic look.

But now, plastic surgery has become so so mainstream everywhere around the world.

Even the Middle East.

Even the Middle East.

People are flying to Turkey to Columbia because it's cheaper.

But like, there are girls who are like 20 years old who are like, you know, casually talking about.

Yeah, it's crazy.

And they're like, yeah, I got my lip.

I got my lower face lift.

I got my nose done.

I got this done.

I'm like, are you kidding me?

You're 20 years old.

I'm like in my 40s and I'm scared to like get anything done.

But like, it's, I think it's actually become like very trendy to be doing that.

Like I don't think that there's even, there's not, there's not even like any shade.

Like it used to be like you were really like, you felt shame or you were like really embarrassed or it was like a secret.

Yeah.

And now it's like very much like out in the open.

Like, oh yeah, I'm gonna like look what I did.

You know, like I got like a status symbol.

Yeah.

Like people don't, there's no shame around it.

There's no in Iran, apparently, I know this is nothing to do with America, but like in Iran, women will put bandages over their face, their nose, even if they haven't got surgery, to show that they're like high status enough to get like nose jobs.

Really?

So they're lying about getting plastic surgery.

Is that true?

I think so.

You think or you know?

I'm pretty sure.

I mean, whoever, if you're watching or listening, then just fact-check me on this.

But I'm pretty sure that's actually how it works.

That's insane.

I just think it's...

I guess it shows you have money, maybe.

I don't know.

I don't know why they do it.

That's crazy.

I just think it's insane.

Like what we're like, what are we doing out there that we think that we're not good enough?

Yeah.

That we have to manipulate our bodies to such a point where it's become so common where it's not even looked upon as weird.

Like at a young age.

And this is what happens.

It's like we're con and listen, I'm, I get it.

Like, I actually understand how it happens, right?

Like, never before in the world, in this, in life, have we ever seen ourselves constantly on a camera.

Like, think about it.

Yeah.

You know, like you might catch yourself in the mirror or something.

Go through Zooms.

Yeah.

Through social media.

Like all you're doing is staring at yourself.

It's a natural way of living.

Right.

And so all you're doing is, so all you're seeing are your imperfections 24 hours a day because it's constantly being you're being reminded.

The funny thing is other people don't.

And that's the weird thing is like, especially, again, looking at it from your framework as a man looking at women who are doing this and younger and younger and younger and pretty girls too, like girls who are naturally

attractive.

Very pretty.

pretty then

one day they just come in and they're you know it looks like they've been stung in the face by a bee and you know their looks are like down sorry if i'm offending

it doesn't look good but what's funny is you ask any guy and most guys will say like they rather the natural person than the person that looks like they've had like so much work and i think women think that that's and so there's an equivalent on the man's side like bringing this back to the original like the source of this conversation there's an equivalent on the other side where men want to get really muscular, like overly, overly muscular.

I guess it's called the Donis complex.

Where you want to exaggerate, almost like

become a caricature or become a cartoon of masculinity.

So you just exaggerate, exaggerate, exaggerate until you're no longer really masculine.

You're like hyper-masculine.

And women find that unattractive.

Like then women are not joking when they say like if you see like like veins like unnatural veins, I'm pretty veiny, but like unnatural veins or the steroid look or the monster look or something that's too perfect, even something that's too chiseled, too perfect.

They find that unattractive.

And men think, you know,

they're just

mean like bullshit.

Yeah, bullshit.

Well, you know what, though?

There is some of it.

Yeah, that's what they think.

I think you're right.

Because there are some men who are like just so juicy.

Like, they're so big.

Yeah.

And I get it.

I keep saying the word swole, but so muscular.

Like, it looks crazy.

Yeah.

But

they lost the line of what was right.

But I think that happens with with the girls on the other side.

But this is my question.

Now, isn't it really a kind of like

different boat?

Like, you know, different people

like different things.

Like, there are some people who are going to like that look.

Some people are not going to like that look.

Like, I know a lot of guys who think that that girl looks hot who has like the size triple D boobs and that waist that's been cinched in with like her ribs being taken out and her butt being like plumped up.

And they think, wow, she's smoking hot.

I think like there's certain guys who find that hot because they think it makes them look good.

Like, I think a lot of like a trophy.

The new trophy is like the plastic girl.

Like, it's all like, but then you have to think to yourself, what, what kind of person or what type of guy is going to find that attractive?

Like, what is that really?

It's a very red flag to be able to.

It is.

By the way, I think about those things all the time.

When I see people, and maybe this sounds bad, but like, I quickly make an assessment based around those things.

Like,

like, don't you?

Because these, like, when I see a guy who's like 55 years old or 60 years old, and he's with a 25-year-old girl, I'm thinking, like, what the fuck are you doing, dude?

Like, and you two lady.

Yeah, I think about the girl, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, I get why.

I get why.

I get why the guy.

I think why the guy would do it.

Well, listen, I get what, listen, let me say this.

I get it.

Like,

I get it again.

Like, I understand why.

What I don't like is that just says something about the guy because I agree with you.

What do you have in common?

Like, you have no real, like, you have nothing in common.

I agree with you.

Because it's just pure physical attraction.

That's it.

You're basing your whole decision of your partner.

Well, you have nothing to even talk about.

What do you talk about?

They're not talking.

And

they'll say, oh, no, they're an old soul.

Or, you know, like...

It might happen every once in a while, but generally speaking, probably not.

Well, because also, like, where do you relate?

Like, I like people who can remember like European vacation.

And like, we can like know the movie we know like references like movies and who whatever like whatever like in the 90s or whatever these people were not even born until 2005.

Yeah.

So I find that

the pace of life moves so fast that things get buried.

So like I was born in 88 and like my I mean, I guess it's getting a bit of a revival now where like people are dressing like the 90s and stuff and wearing Nirvana t-shirts, even though they don't know.

My kids wearing a Nirvana t-shirt.

Yeah, they don't know who Nirvana is.

They don't.

That's what I'm saying.

It's important to have, like, you know, be with somebody who you can, like, who you have things that you have, like, nostalgia with.

Yeah.

Right?

I love nostalgia.

I love nostalgal.

You know what I mean?

It's such a good, it's almost painful, but it's like such a good

bonding mechanism with it.

It's a huge bonding mechanic.

One of my very good friends, Darren, me and Darren Prince, shout out to Darren Prince.

Him and I literally laugh all the time about vacation, about Clark, you know, Clark Griswold, the Griswolds, like, you know, National Lampoons vacation, European vacation, like

we like bond over like these funny movies that we both like loved.

Do you know what I mean?

And it like literally like it like it basically was like the beginning, the catalyst of like a friendship because we had so much in like so many things we were related upon.

So I just think it's interesting when people like don't value

those things and they they undervalue like real things that you like bonding and like connection in those ways for like frivolous surface things.

Cause that's to me is like, it's just silly.

But anyway, I'm digressing, but I do find it interesting that men feel, like women think that men want something that

pretty much they don't want and the vice versa is what you're saying.

Prioritize a fit body.

Like like every man wants like the don't say every.

We're going to get in trouble.

Not everybody.

Not every man.

Most.

She canceled me already.

I'm sure I've said something.

But

most men who are attracted to women want the hip to waist ratio.

This is like hip to waist.

Another way of saying it is butt to gut, if you don't know what hip to waist is.

So you want a slim waist and bigger hips.

Now

that ratio can expand, but the ratio has to stay the same, but it can expand.

Some cultures want,

can

prefer wider.

of both of those things and some prefer narrower.

I think Western cultures like European and American, probably want slightly narrower, and then like other cultures, I'm not going to mention that.

That's a good point.

So, depending on where your culture is, what your aesthetic preference will change, right?

So, like in America, what's considered to be quote-unquote beautiful is different than, let's say, in another country.

It's changing now.

There's a lot of, you know, and there's a lot of like debate about it in general.

Like, it's everything in America has to be like controversial.

Like, nothing can just be easy and smooth and functional.

Everything has to be really controversial.

And that's kind of the appeal of America.

It makes things fun.

I don't think it makes things fun.

I think unless you are some, like unless you are PC about what you're saying, like I had to correct you.

Like I'm nervous all the time.

Like, oh my God,

because I'm going to, like, someone's going to be offended, which is a silly way to be.

Like, everyone should be entitled to their own opinion.

But what I was going to say is, okay, I have a question for you.

As a guy,

do you think, for the most part, men like like a hot body versus a hot face or a hot face versus a hot body, or is that something that is very dependent on who the guy is?

I think it's dependent on who the guy is, but

it's a very good question.

I haven't thought about this for a long time.

Both.

Is that let's cop out?

Is am I copping out then?

Yeah, are you saying 50% of guys want the hot face and 50% of the guys want the hot body?

Or are you saying you want both?

Every man wants a little bit of both.

They kind of look at the whole package.

Men in general prioritize like the physical.

Yeah.

But actually, they did a study and they found that when women are looking at physical characteristics, they tend not to prioritize the face at all.

That's very, very low.

And the body is more important, especially like arms.

Men do?

Women.

So actually, women in some ways are more shallow than men.

according to this study.

I can pull it up later.

But men, I mean, again, I don't know.

I think women like tall men.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's the first characteristic physicality.

That's like physical characteristics.

I didn't think that was one of the criteria.

Then

I think women, you don't need women are not looking at their soul, like at their potential soulmate or their partner, and they don't have to be beautiful.

They have to be somebody who can provide security for them.

I think that's what women look at really primarily.

And then we can get down into the like into the nitty-gritty.

So the physical, I think, comes second, aside from height.

I think if you're like attractive enough and fit enough, I think, but you have the potential and you have the ability to make a woman feel secure and you have the height.

I think those things like women are okay with.

That's the problem with height.

You can't really train that.

You can't train height.

You can get rich, but you can't train.

Well, the guys who don't have height, then they work even extra hard on their muscles to get their body yeah to get really big that probably isn't gonna cut in doesn't look good either i think the most attractive quality overall i think in any sex is having a strong sense of confidence and self-esteem and being okay with what you are and who you are i think being comfortable in your own skin is the most

by far the most sexy quality someone can have.

For me, I think it, and a lot of people think that, I think single people think that's probably bullshit but it's true and for me growing up i always like was attracted to women and i always said this and i meant it like physical was in important to me but i was a little bit different from a lot of guys in that i the most important characteristic for me was like bubbliness and not because that was my that was how i saw confidence i saw a good mood and like smiling and laughing and being happy go lucky yeah that's what i i always gravitated to that like i was never attracted to women who were like little, like, off, like, little, like, with a bad turn.

Or no, I think the word you're looking for is just kind of like miserable, like, just kind of like not.

Yeah, that wasn't an attractive situation.

Like, grumpy.

Grumpy.

Nobody likes grumpy.

I totally agree with you.

Like, I think someone who is like friendly, I think the word's friendly that you're looking for.

Yeah.

Friendly, happy, comfortable in their own skin.

Like, I don't care.

There's no physical attribute that will ever take the place of that.

You could be You could be a smokeshow in either way.

But if you have a bad personality or you're uncomfortable in your own skin and you're insecure, you're automatically to me like a zero.

If you're someone who's like, you know, not that, not that great to look at, but yet you exude confidence, real confidence, not bullshit, like arrogance that you pretend to be confidence.

I mean like real confidence, like, you know, kind of like that's at your core.

You're like the hottest thing in the world to me.

I agree.

There does need to be a baseline attraction, but that attraction is something that you can't always say, yeah, like a base.

I'm not saying you got to be like, you know, like 700 pounds and you know, right, rolling around in the mud, like you know, you don't really know what you're going to find attractive until you're actually attracted to someone.

So, I think like trying to get it down on paper what is attractive to people.

That's the problem with um Tinder, what

do you call it?

Yeah, dating apps.

Um, dating apps.

This is how long I've been out.

How long have you gotten out?

Jesus Christ.

God, you know nothing about these games.

These dating apps.

Well, I got off right when I met my now wife.

It was literally right around the time of Tinder.

And that was like a watershed moment, I think, in history because it got, I think, increasingly hard for people to find a long-term partner

after that.

And it was a lot easier before.

So I think I got out of the game at a good time in many ways.

I mean, if you just want to hook up, it's great.

Oh my God, that's exactly.

That's such a great point.

You, because you're right.

I think it did.

I'm so excited to talk to my next guest later, but because I believe that the dating app's popularity did ruin having a relationship.

It changed the relationship into a situationship because you always can have options available to you.

Paradox of choice.

The paradox of choice.

I was going to say that the paradox of choice is probably the most,

gosh it is probably one of the worst things that's happened to to relationships and socialization yeah or if like there's always someone

there's always someone down the you know i can i can swipe to yeah you know like my mother would always say to me when i was young you know like the person with the most options will always end up alone because

you get overwhelmed i see that a lot i see that a lot with i see it all the time with women and men but definitely with women like i see like sometimes the girl who is always told, and you know, everyone thinks they're the most beautiful girl in the block.

And like, everyone's like, oh my god, you're such a princess.

You're so good.

Yeah, I see it all the time.

And they just struggle because they always feel like they could do better and also they should do better.

So, like, like, they feel insecure because, like, oh, this person isn't good enough for me.

That means that I'm like, I'm not good enough because I'm this beautiful and I'm with someone who's like only here.

And so there must be something wrong with that.

I totally agree with that.

It's a weight of expectation.

expectation i totally agree with that i also think what happens i have a friend like this who's so beautiful she's always single never dates and i also think what happens is people don't even ask her out because they assume that she's with somebody yeah the intimidation the intimidation factor so she doesn't even get even like approached yeah basically yeah and The problem is, what happens then is she ends up going out with the wrong people over and over again who are actually like, like way below her qual her,

like, what, like overconfident kind of cocky guys?

Douchey guys who like, who like, will go out, who, who don't, who are not fearful and go out, ask her out, but they're just not never good guys.

Yeah.

And also, I think what happens is like you learn, you don't learn how to properly don't, you get, you don't learn or get the dating experience because you don't have the that happens too.

But I think what you're saying happens more often than not, which is you always think you can do better, or, you know, or you're not, if it's just a look thing, you don't hone other qualities to make you a full person that makes you someone that wants, like, that people want to go out with.

Maybe they'll want to go out through and sleep with you, but that doesn't mean they're going to actually want to like have you as a partner because you kind of like you're lopsided, you like worked on your looks, or you didn't have to work on anything else.

That's also an unattractive quality as well.

Like, there's a, there was a song by the streets back in the day, and it was like, fit, but you know, it, meaning she's hot, but she knows she's hot, and that makes her less hot.

It makes you well, that's the thing.

But what, but then, why is it not okay to know you're hot?

But I get what you're saying, it's all then.

You have to act, hold it in.

Well, you're gonna pretend to slide

fake humility, like, oh no, like, but then that goes into a whole other thing, right?

Like, why can't we own the fact if we know we have something?

Why can't we be happy about it and proud?

Like, why do we have to have this fake humility all the time?

By the way, a whole other podcast.

Let's, I mean, this is supposed to be a short one, but I think you can't have a short podcast on Mail and Weekly.

I know,

this should be like a sequel.

Yeah.

I love this topic.

I think a lot of people like this topic who are like, who are dating or just, I'm not dating, but I love it anyway.

But I still find it really fascinating.

I mean, it's not a lot of fun.

It's how the human species are going to continue.

Like, we need to figure out dating, otherwise, like,

procreation, right?

And, like, people are not procreating, actually, in some countries, and then in some places they are.

And it's actually,

it is probably kind of a real issue that we need to sort out.

But

it's also just fun to talk about, I think.

I love talking about it.

It's very entertaining.

I don't watch like

Keeping Up with Kardashians or whatever.

No, neither do I.

You know, I don't watch any of that stuff, but I really like to talk about like

real issues.

Me too.

And I love reading, like, I'm such a nerd this way.

I love looking at the data of like what has happened between 19, like, let's say 20 years

before now or 10 years.

So I can see how evolution has changed, like with technology, with apps, like you said, like where we're going, how did it happen, like anything like how everything like works.

Like I'm so human nature to me is, I'm so fascinated by human nature.

I would have been a psychologist in another life.

I got my psychology together.

We're psychologists.

We're psychologizing now.

I know, we're psychologizing.

That's true, right?

All right, you guys.

Thank you for staying tuned.

I'm curious, you guys.

Let me know if you wish what you believe.

Like, what did you you think of this episode did you agree with lerod and that myself what's your opinion on this whole manual i want to know if i offended people i'm really curious you didn't really say much to offend trust me i don't think you did if you did i wouldn't be upset if i did i'm just curious if i don't think people get triggered by stuff how easily people get triggered by everything different like i think different types of people have different levels of sensitivity and i don't know yeah your viewers listeners like your crowd i don't know how sensitive they are well we'll find out we'll find out

okay guys thank you for listening.

Have a great Friday.

Bye.