Episode 187: Shaun T – Fitness Trainer, “Insanity”, “Hip Hop Abs”, Podcast Host, and Author

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

All right, you guys, on Habits and Hustle today, we have the one and only Sean T,

one of my favorite fitness legends on the planet.

He is very well known, probably most well known for some of his smash hits such as Insanity and Hip Hop Abs, which were probably some of the most successful commercial infomercials ever that's ever hit this planet.

But more than that, more than Sean being so successful with these Beach Body programs, he himself is just such a beacon of light.

And he has a whole business called Sean T.

Inc.

that is really about trusting and believing, the same name as his podcast, Trust and Believe, who it's about transformation, getting you to be the best version of yourself, getting unstuck, facing difficult situations, and mostly trusting and believing in yourself and doing the hard things.

You guys, I really enjoyed having this conversation.

Me and Sean, to be truth be told, we got along from the jump.

We

really just became fast friends, and I just love this guy.

He really is so inspirational, genuine.

And this podcast really went deep and talked about things, honestly, that I wasn't even

for it to do.

But if anything, you can see how you are the CEO of your own life.

It is up to you to become and be and do what you want and not let anything from your past hold you back or limiting beliefs hold you back.

So really listen to this podcast.

I know you're going to enjoy it and glean something from it to really

use for your life.

Enjoy.

Do you play tennis?

Oh, God.

Don't you tell me.

Are we recording?

We are.

Oh, yes, I play tennis.

I started playing tennis a little over 11 years ago.

I crashed my husband and his mom and dad's vacation two months after I met him

to Australia.

I had no idea about tennis.

I played football, tracking field, and basketball.

Like they were my sports.

And when I got down there, they were like, oh, we're going to go to the Australian Open.

And I remember sitting in the Weston Hotel in Melbourne and I was like, I I have no idea what I'm about to watch.

I didn't know how to score tennis.

They go from 15 to 30 to 40, love,

you know, advantage this and all this stuff.

And I remember going to the match and I saw the guys playing and I was like, this is so fucking like,

like, I would be a professional tennis player.

Like, I was talking all kinds of trash.

Right.

And I got, and then so for

Valentine's Day, 2011, Scott bought me a tennis lesson at the National Tennis Center in Queens, New York.

I got the first ball over.

I thought I was a shit.

And I think I hit every other ball, like over the curtains and everything.

And so I, for the last 11 years, have been

like obsessed with tennis.

That's my, I use, I did use it as my cardio for a while because I just got sick of doing fitness, you know.

So I totally understand that.

Yeah.

So I got sick of doing fitness.

Anyway,

from that, Scott told me he gets so mad when I tell this story, but he was like, you'll never be able to hit like a professional tennis player.

And I'm like, do you know who the fuck I am?

Like, what do you mean?

And I really, like, I was mad at him for it.

I have a grudge for like a few years after him saying that.

And so two things happened.

One, we met Serena.

I got to play against Serena.

You know, we played doubles.

My team, me and my partner beat Serena.

No way.

And she was so mad.

Like when we were playing, she's so competitive in a good way.

She was bombing these balls at me.

And she was just like, there were a couple of them.

I was like, holy shit.

Like, if I was playing her one-on-one, she would whoop my ass.

But anyway, so I had to play.

And then

like maybe a year and a half ago, I remember Scott saying to me, like, I just want to let you know, I think you can beat me in tennis now, but I'll never admit that in public.

Oh, my.

Well, I feel like anything you do, though, you become good at.

Just from the podcast we did at on your podcast, like you have a lot of like like hidden talents that people either don't know about or you just don't talk about or is that true like are you the kind of person that if you put your mind to it you can become good i think exceptional i should say at a lot of things i think that i am a life's decathlete meaning you know if i went to the olympics the only thing i could probably The only thing I would win a gold medal in if it were an Olympic sport would be fitness.

Like if it was like, you have to like do a live class like i feel like that's the thing i excel at the most right like i would be on this i would be on the metal stand you know first second to third you know probably gold but i'm down to lose to really good people but um

but so but for me it's about the trying like if if i find that i'm capable of doing something if my mind tells me i can do it I can do it.

I can sing.

I'm not the best singer in the world, but I can definitely be the lead in a Broadway show, which I really want to be the lead in Kinky Boots.

It just came out.

I want to be Lola so fucking bad.

But anyway.

Can you really sing that well?

But I can sing really good.

I'm not Mariah Carey or

Craig David or any, you know, Brian McKnight, but I can definitely, I can sing.

I can dance really well as a professional dancer.

So I do a lot of things really, really well.

But the secret is...

If I don't do it well, you're not going to see me doing it.

So it's just, I mean, there are things that I'm not really great at you know like what name me one thing that you've tried at tried and that you aren't great at writing a book was really tough for me because i'm not a good writer i'm a good i express really well my voice so like even when i write posts you know chip will look at my post chip is my everything in my business, I should say.

But Chip will look at my post and be like, yeah, you made some errors.

Like grammatical errors and like just what intentions is.

There's sometimes grammatical or, you know, know, but I'm very, I don't think I'm ADHD because I know my friend Shalene Johnson talks about that all the time, but I'm definitely, I'm just, I'm not good at organizing my life necessarily.

That's why I have really good people around me.

Yeah.

Um,

and that's a, that's a true statement for a lot of people who are extraordinary at a high level at certain things.

Yeah.

So that's not that, that's not that unique, right?

It's not that abnormal, you should say, but you know, in therapy, because I'm going to therapy, I know, and my therapist, you know, he calls it a high achiever.

Because I was just like, you know, one time I was telling him, to your point about the question of like, you're good at a lot of things.

I have this thing in my head where if I'm not doing anything, I think I'm lazy.

And he said, a lot of high achievers have that

mindset.

And so,

yeah, so I mean, you know, if there's a lot going on in this brain, most of what comes out now is the messiness and always the real.

But before it was just, it was really tough, tough you know and i wasn't at this level of like confidence and belief in myself always you know now being 44 it's just a different story when did it start like what was like so walk me through this right so how did you even become the shanti that we know from insanity and from all the mega programs like becoming that like were you naturally very very talented with like even talking to a camera people don't even know how difficult that is to be on cue and to be doing that and to be engaging while also doing the moves like did you audition for it like what was the evolution first of all can i just tell you i love you like i know we just met but i love you too

great talking to you like it's amazing that is so nice i feel the same way towards you i really so true it's so true like i just ugh like you're wonderful oh you're wonderful too thank you oh but like my grandfather used to say we're fearfully and wonderfully made i just wish most people would like actually believe that they're wonderful wonderful, but that's a whole nother story.

That's a whole other podcast, actually.

I do like the fact that you asked me, like, how did you become Sean T from what people already knew?

Because most people ask the question, like, how did it happen?

Yeah.

But I love how you asked, like, the evolution, because we know what we see on TV.

Right.

And when you see actors and you see, or people that are, you know, on TV or, you know, somewhat famous, if you have whatever.

No, but you are in the fitness space.

Like, there's not.

There's like very few names that are household names, right?

Very few.

You could be a really successful fitness person, but like there's like a handful and you are one of those people.

Like probably my, maybe not my mom because she's 80, but most other people, if you say Sean T, people automatically, oh yeah, insanity, beach body, oh yeah, that guy, hip-hop abs.

Like you've been like kind of part of the DNA and the fitness space for so many years that people at some level will know who you are.

It's funny you say so many years because somebody said to me the other day, they were like, yeah, I've been doing your tapes since 2001.

And I'm like, No, you haven't because I was still in college.

But to answer your question, which is a really good question,

I'll tell you a really interesting story.

So, I used to teach at Equinox in West Hollywood when I first moved to Los Angeles.

Was that your really?

So, yeah, I used to teach there and people used to wait like an hour for my class.

And it was always packed, especially my Saturday class.

And it was a dance class.

I taught 10 classes a week or 12, and there were all kinds of fitness classes from Bosu to Bosu Step to, you know,

everything.

But my most popular class is my hip-hop dance class.

And so people would wait.

And so there was a producer that worked at Beach Body that came to my class.

Two of them would, like, she would always look from outside the window at my class when they came in.

Anyway, she got in touch with a trainer who then reached out to me and said, Hey, this woman wants to meet you.

Her name is Lara Ross.

She's one of my great friends to this day.

But they had me come in and audition.

And I remember the

director, Andrea Amandos, who I love to death, she said, Now, I just want to let you know you have to be yourself when the camera comes on.

And she used her hand, she was like, So, this is the camera, and you have to, you know, try not to act like anything else.

And in my head, I'm like,

who the fuck I am?

Like, and if you're, she and my relationship are very that, like, you know, I heard she's very tough, actually.

She's super tough, but I'm literally her favorite.

Yeah, well, of course, you are.

I know that sounds really knowing, but I am perfect.

And she's like, she's just wonderful.

But, um,

so I just remember, I was like, okay.

And in my head, I'm like, I've literally taught on every continent almost in different languages.

Like, you know, this isn't my first rodeo.

I'm saying that.

And literally that day, I taught about like maybe 15 minutes like for them.

And I walked out of Beach Body with my contract that day.

Like there was no like, wait.

There was no like.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

They gave it to you on the spot.

They walked me to the lawyer's office.

What did you do in that audition?

Um, so funny story.

So, I call all my dancer friends to my house to my house.

So, I was renting a room out of a really good friend of mine's house.

And so, I called them over.

It was like six of them.

And I was like, hey, meet me at my garage at like nine o'clock.

And they all came to the garage.

And I pulled the sliding glass mirrors from my closet in my bedroom and took them downstairs.

And I put them in

the garage.

and I made up a routine of like what we were gonna do at this audition and I walked in there and that's what I did I just taught a dance and they were just really um

impressed with my cueing they were just like wow like you cue really well like for like if I'm doing a move that goes boom boom bop I go go up down out take it down flip around boom boom because like my thing is I want people to know what I'm doing before I do it but that also

you know I'm also also put my personality into it.

So exactly.

It was exactly what I guess Beach Body needed at the time.

So well, you had two things, a group X, like teaching an actual class day in, day out, that many gave you the, it gave you the skill set.

So you, that's, you knew what you were doing because queuing is super difficult.

People don't realize that.

And because of the choreography stuff, like you already, like you were already a a professional by the time you got to that place.

Yeah, I mean, I was a professional dancer.

Yeah.

And, you know.

But the queuing the choreography like being on beat was oh yeah the choreography and i had taught i had taught you know how they say it takes 10 000 hours to be i had taught probably

i mean i started teaching when i was 20 almost 21 and i taught like i remember teaching 25 30 classes a week just in college so by the time i left college and then like traveled around the world.

I mean, I had,

I've been, I just was all over the place, you know.

Were you like a fit?

Okay, so at that time, it's obviously different when it is now with fitness influencers and all that.

But were you considered a fitness like because you had that equinox class?

Were you like a Nike trainer and all those other kind of fitness influency things before social media at that point?

Yeah, it's so funny when people come up to me and they're like, oh my God, you're like a social media influencer.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm not.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm not.

But yeah, like fitness back then was very different.

And I'm sure, you know, there were all the conventions and and like people don't even know names like calvin wiley patrick adeau tony stone angie bunch patricia moreno rest in peace you know there's so many of these incredible

people that i like patron trained under that taught queuing that was able to build a class every class was an experience and so

From that, then I had to work my way up to be able to teach at one of these conventions.

And so I taught at those conventions for a while.

And one day I would, I would teach, and I would still take like six classes a day.

And one day I was in a back row of a class.

I was just like, because I like to support people.

And I always was like, I'm going to soak up anything that they do.

Totally.

And I was in the back of the class and it was a guy from Turkey that was just like, hey, you want to come to Turkey and help me open up a gym and like create, you know, this.

like fitness program and personal training and all that stuff.

So he did all this stuff.

And it was just like, I went to Istanbul and I, you know, I was like, where am I?

I don't speak this language, but the guys are hot and I'm here for it.

That is awesome.

You know, it was on my mind in my tour.

100%.

No shame.

No, it's amazing.

So, then, did you come up with hip?

Was your first program hip-hop abs, though?

Yes, my first program was hip-hop abs.

Did you do it or did they give it to you?

How does it work?

Like, what's the, like, give me the skinny, you know, excuse the pun on, like, what happens inside?

So you get the job, then what happens?

Yeah, so get the job, and it literally is we go into a boardroom with the producers with Carl Daikler who's the CEO um and then we just kind of ideate on what it is that we want to do at least that's how every experience of mine has been uh so they knew that they had just come out with p90x was before insanity yeah and then the most amazing Shalene Johnson had just come out with turbo jam remember that too right so so she had come out with turbo jam and so

really, so what happened was they were just like, we want, Turbo Jam did so good.

It was like rhythmic.

It was kind of like, I don't want to say it's like Tybo, but it was like the rhythmic boxing for people who don't really understand it.

And then, so they wanted something that was like, they felt like movement was really good.

So, and I was really popular for dance.

Right.

And so we.

That's what you're known for.

Yeah.

But the way we came up with hip-hop abs was, I'm actually going to shout out.

These people, these two women, their names are Gillian and T.

They had Yoga Booty Ballet.

I don't know if you remember that.

Of course I do.

Yes.

But they had one workout in Yoga Booty Ballet called Hip Hop Abs.

Oh, they did.

It was just like one little, it was just like where we would do like buns and butt or whatever, buns and thighs.

It was hip-hop abs.

But anyway, the way we came out with hip-hop abs was actually really cool because I was a hip-hop dancer.

Yeah.

And one day we were just ideating on choreography in this room.

And so I took off my shirt and

you know they're like, oh my gosh, you have like really great abs.

And I was like, thank you, you know.

So I was like, I don't know who said it, but they were like, oh my gosh, like, what if we focus like did an ab program?

And so I breathed in and I made my belly really big.

And I was like, you know, all you got to do is tilt, tuck, and tighten.

And it went from my abs.

And they were like,

holy shit.

And because they were like, what do you do for abs?

And I was like, I don't do abs.

Like at the time, I did not get down on the floor.

I literally danced.

And they were like, well, show us how you move.

I was like, well, in hip-hop, you know, you got to stay low.

You got to keep your core tight, you know, all this stuff.

And so that's how we came up with hip-hop abs.

It went from like hip-hop abs to like hot hip abs.

It was like all these things.

And we really were like, okay, we have to use this name because hip-hop abs is great.

So then that's how we came up with hip-hop abs.

And we like, was everyone shocked at the popularity of the, like, how much, how it became like massive.

Yeah, it was a phenomenon at the time.

It was huge.

I think what was really great about it it was you know it was just like all the ingredients of a of a great fitness program came into one and this is gonna sound really funny but you have dance you have low impact and you have a gay black man i know that sounds really really crazy and i can say it because i'm black right right right but like you know

I believe people are probably going to roll their eyes at this, but I just believe that gay black men in fitness is like, is not intimidating because some people can be intimidated by really

you know super ripped other women women for sure or like beefy guys kind of like I am now you're super beefy now but you weren't back then I wasn't back then who's it who's the kid out there is that is that just oh my god he's so cute

that's Dylan he's probably like well yeah he's probably he's used to oh my god he has great hair sorry thank you I love that yeah he's he's delicious um so I don't know what I was like looking at him but so what was he saying about your hip-hop?

You were telling me,

not Dylan.

No, I was going to say something about the hip hop.

Oh, yeah.

People, and I don't know if this is like politically incorrect also, but the gay

teachers always, like, who are at the clubs are always the most popular.

Like, women flock to these classes.

And if you're like a pretty girl or like, it's, you could be intimidating.

Yeah.

Like, they like the personality that comes with it.

I think that if I can, like, if I can just even take sexuality out of it for a second, I think what happens is, you know, gay people in general, like, we live a life of being suppressed for mostly a quarter or more of our lives.

You know, I didn't come out till I was 21.

Most people don't come out till they're 18.

You know, so you have these people who are suppressed for the youngest years of their lives.

And so now you take somebody who actually loves fitness, who loves to dance, who wants to be expressive, and you put them in front of a room, and it's not

intimidating.

And people are having a good ass time.

Totally.

People do not care about,

I don't want to say they don't care about fitness.

Yes, people want to lose weight.

They want to, but people,

when people

find a way to stay motivated, they find a way to stay motivated by having fun and not being overwhelmed or intimidated.

And that's what I agree.

That's why people don't, that's why the people who don't go to the gym, don't go to the gym.

Well, I'm not fit enough yet to go to the gym.

I'm too big.

For a lot of women it's you know i need to lose weight for a lot of men it's just like well i'm going to be intimidated by the guys with

it's insecurity you don't feel confident in that way so you have you know you have a gay black man

or a chip because chip is a really good gay teacher oh you are too he's not a gay teacher but he's a fitness instructor are you where do you teach equinox too he used to i'm on a little pause right now You're on a little pause right now with the schedule being.

I mean, he was teaching even while working with us

for Transform 20 when it had a certification program but he doesn't know he's my favorite instructor but um anyway so um not anyway but

so

just like when you have like a gay guy teaching it's just not intimidating especially for like being in public you're going into a room and i really believe like no one talks about that but i'm like it's very very very true if you go to fitness conventions like The gay guys are like, they have like these really popular, super fun classes.

They also have a cult following.

yeah they have a cult following because they make it fun i think at the end of the day no matter what people want to feel inspired and they want to have fun they don't want to feel like it's like a chore to do it but you said something that was interesting so when you were 21 you came out but what so how old were you when you did insanity what was i was that was 2009 so oh so 31 i was i was

born in 1978.

was that 31 almost 31 i was 30.

so you were okay so I remember now, I don't know why.

I remember when people said to me, oh, Sean Key, Sean T came out, but that was like already, this was like back when like we were like, this was like in 2005.

It was 2010.

Were you keeping it a secret?

It was 2012.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

I do.

And it's really funny because I was never in in public.

That's the thing.

I'm like, have you done hip-hop abs?

I'm literally like, I don't got no hair.

You know, I'm like, I was never in my public, in my

professional life.

I was never in the class.

I came out 21 to everybody.

So, why do people think that?

I'll tell you why.

Okay.

So, one, because you have hip-hop abs where I'm like cutting up and rocking body.

They were my first two programs where they were dance programs.

You know, I'm acting like I'm at the motherfucking club.

You know, I'm having a good ass time.

But then Insanity comes out, and it is,

there's no time in

a program where it wasn't live at the time.

Like if it was, if insanity was a live class, I would have been acting crazy because I'm like, cool.

But, you know, it's a packaged program where people have to come and have to redo the workouts.

So I don't tell jokes.

I'm just like, boom, like we're going to hit it and go.

Right.

And I took on when I created Insanity because I wanted people to feel how I felt.

at the end of a track practice, which is terrible.

And so I feel good at the end, but it's terrible.

And I'm like, this is

like, I need people to feel this way.

So they saw Sean T from Insanity, Shanti from T25, Asylum, like these programs that are

hardcore.

So then when my husband and I get married and my assistant at the time tweets, oh my gosh, she put something like, I'm so happy to celebrate this love.

Everyone, like the blogs went crazy.

And I'm like,

who was in?

Oh, right.

So everyone just assumed that you were

coming out, but you were, but it was just because it just never gave the opportunity to tell me.

I'm like, thanks, girl you know I was fine right

because I totally remember that and I'm like what I because I wasn't like keeping tabs completely but I do remember that that like in the atmosphere of like of beach body that you came out yeah but it was like just but can we talk about that for a second like why do people even have to come out I know I mean listen that's a whole other thing like I don't remember

I remember thinking, like, I wasn't even thinking if he was in or out or where you were.

I'm like, oh, I like his workouts.

I wasn't paying attention to that.

But I guess because the conversation wasn't what it was today, like back then, people were much more,

well,

people are afraid of cancel culture today for different reasons.

But back then, the cancel culture was much more, there's a stigma, I guess, for whatever reason.

back then about that or people thought there would be yeah and i literally never gave a fuck i know you i can tell knowing you now like that would i can't even imagine people thinking that yeah it's so funny even just today before coming here I was looking at Twitter and what's his name bad bunny big bunny

bad bunny bad bunny last night

big bunny I didn't even I didn't even know who this guy was

like millions and millions oh no he's massive I know yeah massive he um apparently well not apparently there's a video last night on the MTV music awards you know he kissed the guy on stage and the world went in an uproar like oh my gosh still some people were like I never listened to his music again I'm like really he ain't kiss you yeah nor does him kissing you have anything to do with you you enjoyed his music you enjoyed the beats you enjoyed the lyrics but just because he wants to kiss a guy but if it was a girl kissing a girl you would be like oh my gosh that's hot yeah i'm like y'all are so played like get over it i'm surprised that would even be in a tweet or anything now because i feel like it's kind of part of the culture now and like it's not even it's not even like something to even like like talk about i actually hope he did it and he's not bi or anything i hope he actually i mean i don't care if he's straight or gay or whatever but part of me hopes that he was just like

no i just wanted to kiss this dude because why not like kissing a dude

right isn't that called fluid though isn't that the word for it like fluid i mean now now i'm gonna sound like an old fuck but like what's like you know fluid i think it's fluid i think people are i mean there are so many titles for sexuality it is a little bit overwhelming it is even as a gay man like i don't know the difference between queer and gay.

Is there a difference?

Non-binary.

I don't, I just honestly don't know.

And the only reason I don't know is not because I don't want to be educated.

It's just because if I meet you, I literally care about you, but I don't care where your title is.

I'm like, I meet people all the time.

Like, I, like, I love when I meet, now that I know and I'm educated, when I meet a trans person or a trans person that's like transitioning, like now I know and I can put to it.

it but it is it's to me it's exciting and refreshing and fun because you get to see these people living and going after living their true and authentic lives so for me i'm like i i do not even care like i'm the same way yeah i don't care because also i'm attracted to people who are real and authentic right so if people are doing them and doing whatever they want that just makes me more attracted to them yeah versus someone like staying in the like when i say in the closet i mean like inside themselves and acting out some other person that's not even true to who they are.

Unfortunately, though, this is this happens because, and I was talking about this on social media the other day, but this happens because people have planted, unknowingly planted damaged seeds, right?

It's most of the reasons why people are afraid to be themselves because their childhood.

Let's just take your parents said you had to be a doctor,

or you have to be a doctor, or you have to go to school.

I know plenty of people who are who make

$100,000 a year or more that didn't even go to college, right?

Or, you know, you're, or because of your religion, like people's religion.

So they're afraid to live their lives because they're afraid of what the Bible says or what Jesus says.

And listen, I love if people are religion.

I love if people are religious.

I love if they're spiritual.

I'm like, follow it however you want to do it.

But, and if that's your authenticity, then great.

But I just, I think other people are afraid to be themselves because they are living up to the expectations of what these people follow and what these people believe in like somebody else right and i'm like why do we have to do that i think it happens all i think because people are fearful of the criticism and losing those connections so then they live a life that's really pure misery right because that's what happens and i think you're 100 right i think people most people live for other people who basically don't even give a shit like at the end of the day most of those people that you care so much about what they think of you they're too busy thinking about themselves.

They're not even looking and caring about you.

Let me ask you a question.

I know you're the interviewer.

No, I want you to stay away.

As much as we are, we had a good time on my podcast.

We're having a good time now.

Obviously, there's lots of excitement of like seeing each other again and when I'm going to show up.

When you went to bed last night, or let's say three nights ago, you weren't thinking about me.

No, I forgot about you.

Right.

Right.

Even though I really like you.

Right.

Yeah.

But if I text you or if we come across each other's posts or if if we become really good friends, then yeah, I'll think about you a little bit more.

Right.

Right.

The reason why I say that is because people who hate on you, they're not thinking about you later.

They literally are spitting out the gossip to their friend.

They're posting on social media to make you feel bad, to do it for likes, to get the clout.

But they are going to go, they're going to have their drinks.

They're going to be having their party.

They're going to go to their church.

They're going to be praising him for their own personal upliftment.

And they don't give a shit about you and that's why you shouldn't give a shit about anybody else and i know there's like a lot there's like family there there's like oh my gosh my career there's things that you may be afraid of but at the end of the day you're giving more energy to this than that person could ever give to you oh 100 i i could not agree with you more the only like so

I think once, I think on your podcast, you're asking me like mentors and all these things.

I don't even really believe in having true mentors because I think everybody is

thinking, talking, giving advice based on the myopic view of what they've experienced.

And so it's not indicative of what your life experience is.

So if someone is hating on you for the example that you use, why would you even give a shit?

Because

they are not even, not only are not, you're not even a part of the, you're not even part of their daily thought.

But I do think there's a the real problem becomes when you're family, right?

Because people are not being authentic because their family has a lot of pressure, puts, put, like put a lot of pressure on them.

And at the end of the day, I think that people have in their heads that what the outcome is, like they, they, they get so scared and they build up the fear so much in their brain, it's never going to become that.

Reality is never as bad as you think it is in your head, right?

Exactly.

That's the bottom line in front of me.

It's never that bad.

And let's flip the script for a little bit.

Like, I am free.

Like, we are all, every single one of us in some way are living in our own tunnel.

Not that we have tunnel vision, but like in my tunnel,

there's colors, there's life, there's sex, there's spirituality, there's gayness.

There's like I have this tunnel, and I accept everyone for who they are, and I don't care.

And people still don't like me because of that.

Like, you cannot like me, and I could love you because of everything that you're doing because it makes you happy.

And people still aren't gonna like me.

So, at the end of the day, you have to be you.

And, you know, my obsession with our solar system and universe, like my, my, my absolute obsession with that has made me give even

like negative fucks.

You know how people say I give zero fucks.

Exactly.

Now that I know how vast this universe is and how we, how much the universe itself and matter, dark matter is expanding, I'm like,

I hate to say it like this, but we ain't shit.

Like, right.

We, like,

it's, it's insane how we sometimes are going through our lives being so affected by what everyone else says about us when

even our planet is like

not even a drop in a bottle my new thing yeah so do you believe that i had this conversation the other day do you believe in like the in vibration and how we can only see what we can see because we're living on a certain vibration did you do and that like there's a whole other alternate universe depending on where where your vibration is did you get into this with the with the whole i know you're obsessed with all the solar systems this is like i've gotten into that i've gotten into i'm having gotten into that but i'm seeing a lot talking about i don't know what it's called it's like

yeah like there's two different universes in a way there's two different like they call it the fourth the four i think it's called the fourth dimension or something

i've heard something about it not i don't get it i don't understand it though um no i don't understand it um but i'm here for it if someone someone wants to explain it to me, I'm totally open to listen.

But I'm also an empath in a lot of ways, and a lot of people think we're crazy.

Like, I read energy like it's going

out of style.

Like, people ask me why I'm really good at something.

It's just because when I walk in a room, I know the average energy of what these people need.

Because I focus on the need, not the energy that they're giving me necessarily.

But, like, even like, can you imagine?

Yeah.

If there are five people in this room right now while we're filming, if any one of us, like, if you had a disagreement with anyone in here 10 minutes ago, even if you rectified the situation, that energy is lingering in this room.

And you can feel it.

I would 100% know.

100%.

And you could be acting like everything's fine.

Right.

100%.

And how would you modify your behavior or you just automatically modify that behavior?

So what I do, I do it a lot at restaurants.

So if a server is having a bad day, instead of reacting to that server having a bad day i'm going to react to the point where i want to give them a 30 tip so like we my husband and i like he'll look at me he's like

you know what do you think and i'm like he or she they ain't having it today and i'm like watch this because i'm like i get it and they start out really like fast abrupt you know a little bit rude wanting to rush out maybe they're at the end of their um you know shifts and then next thing you know they're like oh my gosh can you guys get my table the next time you come here?

You know, because I just don't, well, I believe, and I do that in fitness.

Like if someone's afraid or if they don't think they can get through it, my class and my classes, my live classes are about

don't, I'm going to, I'm literally going to walk you through this so that you feel so freaking good at the end of it.

Cause that is my gift.

Like, that's what I want to do.

It is your gift.

So then get back to that from the first question.

So like before you or Shanti got this job at the i didn't even answer the first question i know i know right exactly well it's good though but okay so before that so yeah i know you're teaching at equinox and you're doing the choreography like where like give me an exam how did you evolve into this you were you said you weren't always so confident you weren't always so this so what what were you and then how did you kind of create the

person or the persona more or less that we that we know now?

Right.

Well, I just,

really great question.

I peeled back the layers.

I peeled back everything that was holding me back from being who I am.

Which was what?

Which was a scared little boy.

You know, I've spoken a lot about my sexual abuse, but from the time I was eight to the time I was 12, literally being molested and sexually abused by,

you know, a person that is supposed to be one of my protectors in my life has does a really, a great deal of damage to the psyche, you know?

do you remember all that stuff oh i remember every single time i remember every

i was like i don't know why at eight years old i was like i have to be very present in this moment to make it through like instead of blocking it out i was like i have to be very present you actually had those thoughts while it's happening

I was like, I need to be very present, very present.

I was always afraid to tell anyone, but I was like,

I just had to be very present.

So there would be times where I would hide in my closet.

I had this, I had a little my buddy and a light bright toy, and I would hide in a closet.

And

I would, like,

I didn't know why I was hiding in the closet then, but I realized that I didn't want to face what was a reality because everyone in my house was like happy.

They were acting so happy, and I wasn't.

And the only time I could be happy is like with my light bright and my buddy.

It was like my safe haven.

Yeah.

But to your point, so I was able to go to therapy from the time I started this commercial fitness journey where I became a household name, if you will.

But at 12.

So wait, hold on, go back.

So here, yeah.

I'm all over the place.

No, no, I like this, though.

So, like, by, but at the, by 12,

thankfully, the

abuse ended, right?

And so, well, I'm going to tell you, if you listeners can and watchers can go here with me, the abuse ended because I was able to have an orgasm so this person who was sexually abusing me was a true pedophile so once i was able to you know have an ejaculation for lack of a better way of saying i think that's the best way to say it um he stopped

and so the weird the weird thing that happens in the psyche at that age is like i've given you all of me all this time i didn't tell like i protected you from telling and now

you want to stop because i get pleasure this is crazy so then i felt like and i didn't notice until later but i felt like that was my first heartbreak you know really yeah because like i had to in some ways trick myself to falling in love with this person did you oh yeah and so the wild thing is like every so he would come upstairs in the middle of the night and that would be like at 12 two o'clock in the morning and that would be like when this would all happen so after he stopped every time he would come up the stairs it's weird like i knew he was coming upstairs because I know my mom's steps and I know I knew his steps.

Yeah.

But I would purposely do things to get him to notice me.

And it was just like, it just kind of went away as soon as, like, if that happened, like everything abruptly stopped.

And a lot of people are like, you know, they probably think to themselves, well, you should be very happy that he no longer did that.

And I'm like, you don't understand the psyche of a child at that age.

You are,

you feel abandoned.

And so they now

have double abandonment because I'm like, at that age, you think my mom should have known this was happening, you know?

Like, you just think your mom should know everything.

Yeah.

And secondly, the second person who was my stepfather, who was supposed to be my protector, now also abandoned me.

So then that's when I realized that I'm living in a toxic environment.

And then at 14, I moved out of my house.

So between 12 and 14, what did you do?

I was just miserable.

And your mom, like, where is your stepfather now, by the way?

Well, when,

but he held a gun to my mom's head when I was in college.

So they finally broke up and now he's dead.

He's dead.

Yeah, from cancer.

And how about your,

how was your relationship with your mom?

My relationship with my mom is fantastic.

But did it take time?

Yeah, I went to a lot of therapy.

There was times where, you know, I was like angry with her, but like almost,

it's weird because it was like, there's anger with her, but for no reason, but also.

So, there was a stint in time where I used to talk to my mom every day, we were like best friends, it was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

But then, when I started going to therapy and I started being able to release these things and like things that you know, while I was very present, there were still things that needed to be uncovered, right?

Um, yeah, there was a point in time where I had to keep my distance for sure.

What, what was what would she say?

Like, how did she not know, or did she know and just suppress it?

She did did not know

how

i that's you are asking the same question that is that eight nine ten eleven twelve year old shawnee that's what they call me would ask here's the thing so he would come upstairs he would go to the bathroom you know close the door and

like they so his whole um I don't want to say schedule, but the process for him was I would hear him pull up in the driveway because he was alcoholic.

So he'd come home drunk.

He would go in the house.

He would go in the house.

My mother in his bedroom was right underneath my bedroom.

He would start an argument with her so that there was a reason for them to separate.

I'm going upstairs.

He would come upstairs, go in the bathroom.

He would turn on a bathroom light, close the door.

So now she thinks, like, oh,

he's mad.

We only have one bathroom minute.

It happened to be upstairs.

He's mad.

He's upstairs.

He's in the bathroom when really.

He was with you.

Yeah.

So she didn't know.

And was it like once once a week

or like once a month?

No, it was way more often than that for four years.

Yeah.

And your attitude or personality didn't change where she was like suspicious of something?

No, no.

The only times where there were lulls in it is when like two of my mom's sisters and their kids came to live with us.

So for me, that was like amazing.

Like I had these people to like barrier me from

yeah buffer but um

no because i think that like we were so miserable like it was such a miserable time yeah there's you know like but i was a kid you know like once i was outside once i was with my friends once i was at school i think the only thing that may

have given her a hint which she never spoke about was i mean i was really smart i i am i mean i did really good in school you know of course you did

I mean, of course, I did, like you said earlier.

I mean, I'm just good old.

I'm exceptional at everything.

But there would be,

you know, there would be times where I wouldn't get good grades and she would be like,

what's going on?

Yeah.

And then the next marking period, I would turn around and

I would get on the honor roll, you know, because I would just be like, okay, I got to do this because I don't want to get in trouble.

I don't want to get, because if we got bad grades, so I would like get straight A's or like A's and B's.

And then one marking period when I, it was probably at a time where I was like going through it a lot, yeah.

Then I would just kind of like, you know, and then like there was a small stint in school where I got

there was a small stint where I got teased.

This thing doesn't stop.

No, you're fine.

There was a small stint where I got teased, you know, for being gay.

I put an end to that real quick because I definitely wasn't the one.

But, you know, so it was a lot going on with my internal self as well as, you know, just, you know, navigating my way through childhood in general.

Do you have a lot of friends?

Like, were you very, were you popular?

Because it seems like you were

very athletic, obviously, and very smart.

You're like a Ferris Bueller.

You're going to be a little bit more.

Both going on.

Thanks.

So in elementary school,

this is going to sound really crazy.

I was first to be chosen in kickball, right?

In like any sport in gym class or, you know, at recess,

but I didn't have a lot of friends, you know?

And I think partly it was because, yeah, like it was, I think partly it was because,

you know, I was a gay kid.

So there's always like, even if you're not like a feminine gay kid or like a flamboyant gay kid, you still know you're different.

So you knew back then.

Oh, oh, yeah.

At eight years old.

I knew before I was eight.

How old were you when you knew, you think?

This is going to sound funny, but like probably the same age you knew.

Like you just

it was just kind of in part of your you just know yeah.

And I think that like, I think to answer that question

and to help a lot of people understand who don't understand gay or how somebody quote unquote becomes gay, which is weird for gay people.

Right.

How do we become the same way as you?

It's almost like that's a great thing that you said, though, by the way, because no one's ever

positioned it like that.

Like, well, same as you.

Like, people don't think about it.

It's not at the same time, you knew.

Right.

But here's to like to solidify that.

If you and I were the same age and we are, let's say we're six years old and our parents or our

or older people are saying, like, oh my gosh, Jen, like, that boy is really cute, isn't he?

That doesn't make you feel uncomfortable.

You're like, yeah, he is cute.

If they're like, Sean, isn't that little girl cute?

I'm like,

no, bitch, I want the boy that Jen has.

It's like, what the fuck you talking about?

You know what I mean?

So, like,

because I'm like, like, he cute as fuck.

Yeah.

So I'm like,

you're not saying it, but you're stinking it.

Yeah.

So like, so at that point, we as gay children become very uncomfortable.

You know, because now like you're praising my female friend for liking this little boy.

Or they even do that shit when kids are like one.

They're like, I hear parents say like, oh yeah, when he gets around the girls, like he get, I'm like, he's one.

Yeah.

Fuck you talking about.

It's so true.

So then, then, you know, so now you're six and you think the little boy sitting next to you is cute.

But when you go home, not my mom is, my mom's not doing this, but this is just an example.

Your mom is like, yeah, he has this little girlfriend that comes over and you know, they, you know, it's his little girlfriend.

I'm like, no, he's hanging out with the girl because he wants to be with the girls.

Like, you know,

that's totally.

That's so true.

So, like, people,

so I always am like,

you know, watch what you say and how you say things around children.

Like I will talk about one of my kids, you know, so I have two sons.

They're the same age, born at the same time.

They're twins.

One of them, his wall is full of female superheroes.

The other one's wall is full of male superheroes.

One of their,

The one who has a female superheroes, his closet of costumes has 85% female costumes.

The other one has all male costumes, right?

We've never told Sander no.

If he wants to be, he designed his own She-Hulk outfit.

He got the green wig.

I'm like, work, bitch.

I'm like, I want to dress up too, you know?

And Silas is like, no, like, I want to be Captain America.

But like, the year before, Silas wanted to be a witch with a dress.

Right.

You know, and Sander wanted to be a skeleton.

And so I say all that to say, like, we have never been like, nope, you can't can't wear that.

And we've never called things the girl outfit or the boy outfit.

The only time it's ever happened is when he said, I want to create

Emma Frost costume.

He's like, can we go on Amazon?

Emma Frost,

I think she's like somebody.

I don't know.

Okay, okay.

I should have said that.

People are probably mad.

Parents are probably mad.

Y'all probably know who Emma Frost is.

I kind of do, but I don't.

I kind of don't either.

It was the first time he got this really dope outfit.

He picked it off Amazon.

It's like a pants outfit with a suit jacket, but it was all all like glittery and like you know rhinestones or whatever and it was the first time he said because i'm like that's not the dress she's wearing like i'm thinking he's gonna be lit you know and he's like no that's that's the girl one and so i was able to i actually asked him i was like so

why do you like that costume i didn't say like why do you like the female costume i'm like why do you like that costume he's like Papa, because like they're so much better than those costumes.

They're like, they have colors.

Like he is like, he's like obsessed with the costume itself.

So even the male superhero costumes he has, I look at them.

I'm like, oh.

So Chip's boyfriend one day wants to

get a sewing machine and help Sander make like whatever costume he wants.

The reason why I tell that story is

because I know how it feels.

I don't know if he's gay.

I don't care.

It's not about that.

It's even about the fact of just

them to be able to be expressive because he might like the female costumes because I asked him he's like, I want to create, I want to design superhero costumes when I get older.

It could just be his design mind.

And if I were to say, well, you can't wear that because that's a girl's costume or that's a girl's costume, Sandra, are you sure you want to wear that?

Right.

Not only would it hinder whatever he is, but it's going to hinder his creativity.

So I'm like, you know, the words that you speak matter.

And at that age, so impressed, like so impressionable impressionable that then they're going to feel that they're doing something wrong.

And then they're going to just like suppress anything that's real.

Exactly.

So that's amazing that you.

I'm like,

you know, even our kids, like, I don't say things to them like, because I said so.

Like, if they're like, why can't I do that?

I don't say because I said so.

I give them a detailed.

a detailed response as to why they can't do something.

You're going to hurt yourself because this thing is made of this material that could hurt you.

Because I want them to continue to ask me questions because that's how they live no i purposely use big words with them and they always like what's that what does that word mean i'm like yes i said a word that they don't know you know take it so totally so back to all of that um

you know so like

it was just like a it was a really rough childhood for me and my mindset but um Yeah, so no, that's it's like I love how you end it with yeah, so that was really rough.

That's like that shaped probably like the entire well not probably your entire the entire history trajectory of your life like you could have gone two like one of two ways right you could have become a victim and your life could have went a whole different like sliding doors could have taken a whole different you know route and then you chose to do this like positivity belief in yourself and living like such a phenomenal life now yeah statistics say and show that i should be in jail i mean especially the amount of time that that was happening.

It wasn't like, it's never good, but like you're saying, it was like consistent for four years in your, in like times when like you can remember shit, not like when you're three.

Yeah, and you know, it's really interesting.

I've had many, excuse me,

what was that?

Are you okay?

Do you want some more?

No, no, no.

It's just, I don't know why, but I'm fine.

I have some.

But it's really interesting that men,

heterosexual men,

have come up to me in dead secretism.

Like they got super close to me, and they just are like, like on the street.

They're like, you know, I saw this post you put on TikTok, TikTok, and that's happened to me before.

And I didn't remember until you put that post up.

And so, you know, I'm immediately like, you know, sorry to happen to you too.

What are you going to do about it?

Like, I actually had

someone who helps me out a lot actually say that to me.

And it, it just like completely changed the trajectory of their life because now they know a lot of why they were the way they were.

And, but a lot of people, like I said earlier, they plant those seeds that they don't even know that they're planting and it comes out in other ways in their life.

So how did I become Sean T from Sean T?

Yeah, like how did that allow you, especially could you said you have double abandonment, like that's double abandonment.

Before you even tell me that, you said something also that's very interesting that it became like, like you became like in love with this guy what was the what do you remember in your do you remember when that transition happened when you went from like being repulsed by him to then like what like waiting for him to come see you yeah when he stopped like that was like but like what when he stopped but not before that not before before i was

before i was just

taking one for the team because i always had this fear that if i told my mom he would end up killing my mom my brother and myself.

Like, I really thought he ever tell you that, though, or no, he never threatened anything.

No, but he was just, and he was an alcoholic and he was like really mean, you know.

And one of my first memories of him, because he's not my biological father, one of my first memories of him is him fighting a guy on a porch outside, getting bloody, coming in, cleaning himself off, going back out, and fighting this guy.

And I'm sitting on the couch

looking at this.

So,

from the time of seeing that, when I was like, what, three years old?

From the time seeing that, from three years old to then that happened to me, this guy is like a superhero.

Right.

You know what I mean?

So there's like so much fear involved.

So there's fear.

And so, like, you know, I don't know if my mother or my brother, I should probably let them listen to this and then we'll have a long conversation about it.

But I don't know if they understood or understand how much me not telling was to protect them.

Right.

Not that they need to do anything about it, but I know for a fact that my brother was

probably still is very much affected because he's my older brother.

And, you know, he always had that older brother, like, protect my younger brother.

And he's in the next room and doesn't know that's happening.

So nothing ever happened to him?

My brother.

No, no.

Only you.

See, people have to understand that molesters, sexual abusers, when it comes to children, they are somewhat, and I hate to put this in the empath community, when a predator is going after a child.

Right.

they a lot of times know what child to pick.

So if you look at me and my brother, if you compare us to in this kind of way, my brother was rambunctious, loud, almost like bad, but not bad.

Like he was just like wild and just blurted stuff out.

Like, you know,

he would come downstairs and be like, you know,

he touched me last night.

You know what I mean?

Where somebody like me, I was more timid.

I was more like, oh my gosh, like, I don't know if I should, like, I should be.

Sensitive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they know, they know that kind of child.

And that's why

I

try not to overdo it, but I say to my kids all the time, I'm like, you know, even with their nannies, I'm like, are you happy?

Were they nice to you today?

You know, like a couple years ago or a year and a half ago, we had to put cream on one of my kids' bottoms.

And, you know, he would wince when it happened.

And we right away asked him, like, it's okay.

Did someone touch you there that made you uncomfortable?

He's like, no.

He's like, it's just weird.

You know, it tickles.

So I'm like, okay.

So,

but we didn't have those kind of conversations.

Like no one was, no one, like you said, no one knew, but no one checked in either.

No one checked in.

That's the thing, right?

So

that's what's amazing to me.

Especially now, it gets always with people that are literally closest to you.

Like the guy lived with you for crying out loud.

Like, so then how did you take that time and then trend, like not let it take you down a bad path and and take you to this or did you have a bad yeah it took me down a bad path internally um

but thank god for

did you get into fitness then that's what happened thank god for sports and fitness and dance

and i mean they like fitness completely changed my life because

Actually, at one point, I was on Zolof, which is a depression medication.

At what age, 12?

Like when this was happening?

20.

No, this is after, like after I came out.

Yeah, oh, yeah, right, 21.

Yeah.

Why?

After you came out, you went on it?

Well, I was in a really, well, once I came out,

there it was almost like it was the first layer to be peeled back.

You know, like I'm suppressing all this stuff, the fact that I'm gay, the fact that I was molested and anything else, you know?

And now I'm like, oh, I came out.

Well, that feels really good.

And I also, the night I came out, told my mom about my molestation.

So that that feels really good.

So now everything is, it's like a volcano is erupting.

Right.

So I'm in a relationship.

I get my first gay relationship with a person that's very similar to my abuser who was alcoholic.

Really?

So then I'm there.

So then I'm like peeling more stuff back.

And so what happened is I just was, I thought I was depressed when really I was in a bad relationship because I would go to fitness.

I would go teach class.

I'm like, there's no way I can feel this amazing right now.

And then when I get home I'm miserable right so then once that relationship ended and you know went on to fitness then I eventually went to therapy and that completely changed my life wow so you only started a therapy like after you came out I started therapy because I had a hard time accepting love from my now husband Was he okay so that how long have you been with your husband

12 years 12 years so that okay there's a big gap, though.

So between 12 and 21, you had this one boy, only this one guy.

Well, the boyfriend I didn't have until at the end of college.

I didn't have a boyfriend in high school.

I was just fast.

You were just,

I was fast with the girls and the boys.

Look, you know, some gay guys have never been with a female.

Yeah, you were?

Other, oh,

other guys are like, I want to make sure this is right.

And you're able to do it and everything?

Well, I mean, when I'm edit out whatever you need to to edit out in my opinion when your hormones are raging as a teenager anything that touches you anywhere it doesn't matter it doesn't matter until you experience

the other stuff the other stuff then you're like oh the emotion behind that is different really i mean maybe you know what i'm talking about

poor girl god i don't know what you are but i know you have the same parts as me so you get it

oh my god i love you i love you oh my god you're so great i love it so then basically then you were just all over the place with the women and not well i was a mess i was in the back of the the supermarket at night and the jeep like i i was doing the absolute most it didn't matter it didn't matter so then so what okay then then you went to therapy and that's when you

got more in touch with whatever yeah therapy completely changed my life but you had it feels like you had confidence like it feels like you were still in your teens confident you were teaching these classes you were like playing sports oh so

there's a part of the story that um i didn't say so when i was 14 i moved out of my house i actually found a way to to move in with my grandparents how um i just was like

I mean, it was hard.

I feel bad now, even though this is not going to sound bad to you.

But I remember my grandmother pulling up to my house one day.

She always drive by.

She would never come inside.

I'm like, girl, I wouldn't come inside either.

But she would pull up.

And it was a summer before my freshman year of high school.

And I was like, My mom, do you mind if I come live with you and pop up?

You know, you guys are getting older, you need help around the house.

And

I don't think, I think she knew that's why I didn't.

I think she knew that was a lie.

Oh, yeah.

She probably was just like, because I was her favorite,

but I think she was just kind of like, oh my gosh, like, you know, and so my grandfather was a pastor.

They were like, she was the first lady of the church.

So the night I moved into their house, the first night I went to sleep, or I went to bed.

And before I turned on my lights, I just started crying like so loud, so hard.

Like I felt like I escaped.

Wow.

You know, and then they ran into my room and, you know, they just prayed over me.

You know, that's why I love people who are religious.

I'm not religious like that anymore, but I could, you know, quote the Bible like the rest, but I'm very spiritual.

Yeah.

You know, and so He,

my grandfather just like prayed over me.

And it was literally like people say, you know, I was born again because they accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior.

For me, that was my born again phase.

And from there, like I completely changed.

And that was at 14 years old.

So then I started to build confidence.

I think there's really great things about religion.

Like I would be in church three to four times a week.

And while I don't believe in everything the Bible says, I do believe that when two and three people are gathered together, like really great things can happen.

I believe that prayer is

like meditation, not necessarily like this man answering your prayers.

I feel like, you know,

you're attracting that by speaking that and what you put out in the universe, not like the secret, but the energy you put out.

Like, if I came in here and I was boring, or if I was giving you bad vibes, I'm not going to get great vibes from you.

We vibe because we're giving each other positive.

That's so true.

Yes.

Going through that in high school and

having that foundation of just support completely changed my life to the point where I went went from like being a kid in elementary school that was like, I wasn't like a reclusive kid, but I was definitely not, you know, out there wanting to be in the forefront to being in high school, to being like the president of my class, to being the captain of like the.

You were all these things?

I was all these things.

I was, you know.

Of course you were.

So you were the captain of the what?

I was captain of the track team.

I was the president of the erase club, which is in racism and sexism everywhere.

I was a captain of the drill team team.

I was vice president of my class.

And then we get these senior superlatives.

You know, it's like people vote for like most popular, most school-spirited class leader.

So I got, I won all three of those most popular, most full-spirited, and class leader.

And my, one of our teachers was like, Sean, choose class leader.

She was like, you're going to be so, they're going to look back in your yearbook and you're going to be really happy about choosing leader.

I'm like, no.

I want to be the most popular.

I'm choosing most popular.

And then like a couple of years ago, I was looking at this like yearbook website and I saw my yearbook.

I'm like, fuck.

Like, she was right.

Right.

I'm like, who gives a shit if you're the most popular?

But they still chose me as class leader.

So I'll just take that.

And also, it kind of still worked out for you in a lot of ways, even if, even though you didn't pick that one.

But I think I want people to understand, like, for me, again, it goes back to like

being

pretty much trapped as a child.

And you're like, and most popular wasn't about people liking me.

It was about me liking me it was about me feeling the freedom it was about me being able to truly live my life and so

you know I think I said this together when we were on a podcast and maybe not on mine but like everybody's in the closet about something everybody you don't know you there's something about people whether it's something they search online whether it's a secret that they had whether it's a something that they said to somebody that they really don't want to So everybody's in the closet about something.

If people could just understand that, they would be way more forgiving of other people.

Compassion, I think.

Lots of compassion.

I know.

That's the thing.

People don't realize everyone, there's, I'm hiding something right now.

You know, I mean, everyone is, right?

Everybody is.

Like, there's something about me that nobody would know, would ever would freak.

I mean, I think that's very, that's like very true to anybody.

And anybody who pretends that's not the case is when we get into trouble.

Yeah.

Like we have.

So then how did you then,

what, wait, so in this first tranche of therapy, what did you learn about yourself?

The first therapy was a gay therapist.

okay

so i was just able to talk it was my first time being able to be free to talk through everything without being judged my second therapist i went to him for like three or four years then my second therapy i took a break and then my second therapist because i had a hard time accepting love from the person i loved the most that was the most impactful um at that time how did you guys meet by the way

They have these hookup sites.

They're apps now.

Is it called Grindr?

Well, we didn't have Grinder.

We had Manhunt.net back then, honey.

Oh, really?

They didn't have Grindr back then?

How long has Grinder been around?

I don't know.

Grinder ain't been around that long, but Manhunt was the one child.

What, really?

Manhunt?

You know, Manhunt.

So, if I told you out there that me and Scott met at the gym, it was the gym.

We were romping around, but in another way, get into it.

Really?

So, what does Manhunt tell me about this?

I'm watching this show.

I want to know about Matt Hunt.

I made all the clips.

Do you edit?

Yes.

Every good clip, please send it to me.

I swear to God, I put it up as reals.

Go listen to, you know, this is amazing.

Okay, so

I want to know about Manhunt.

Now, now we're getting to the good part.

Manhunt is the shit.

Is it still around?

I don't know, child.

I don't need to go on that.

Why is everyone laughing so hard?

Why is it so funny?

Child, you got your arms up.

Yeah, I hear you, Charlie.

The PDF.

You're stretching for something.

Why are you guys all laughing over here?

All right, so Manhunt is.

So, you know,

I'm just going to keep it real.

The gays be trying to act like it's a dating website.

I'm like, no, child, this ain't Tinder or like Bumble.

This is, you know, you go, you would go on that site for a session.

Yeah.

Isn't that what all the sites are?

Isn't that what Grinder is?

I mean, yeah, but Grinder wasn't.

I'm just saying there wasn't an app, like you had.

Wait, so it's the same as what, Grindr?

What it's the same as Grinder and Scruff.

Yeah, it's the same as Scruff.

What's that one?

Oh, that's another one.

Is that a popular one?

I mean,

I mean, Chip is a private.

I mean, i'm not you know i'm not the pr for them but i mean i guess it does the trick

maybe you should be it does a trick for a lot of people honey

is it more popular than grinder now oh my god i'm hot

the grinder is the most popular you should go to grinder like instagrams like grinder on instagram it's it's hilarious is it yeah i know that the founder was my husband knew the founder for a long time because he was in like my a group that my husband's in.

And I remember, I mean, he was like a young guy when he started.

Do you know that?

Have you met the guy that's not?

No, I would love to.

If you're out there, what's his name?

I can't remember.

It was like a

podcast.

Absolutely.

I'm going to find out for you.

Remind me, send me a text or whatever, or whatever.

Let me ask my husband about it because I was going to put him on my podcast too, and I totally forgot about it.

I would love to interview him.

He was so, I mean, he was like, yeah, I'll find out.

I don't know if he's in the group anymore.

I'll find out.

Okay.

I'm sure there's a way to find him.

Oh, yeah, it's super easy to find.

Okay, so Manhunt, so you're on Manhunt, there's a hookup, blah, blah, blah.

And then you see this guy, Scott.

Yeah.

And then what happens?

Actually, I just saw his

guys.

We're back on.

Come on, we're trying to entertain y'all.

Yeah, exactly.

Get off Manhunt.

Yeah,

won't be grinding now.

Yeah, exactly.

Or Scrub.

What was that?

I looked it is still around.

It is.

Oh, you were doing, oh, he was doing, you know, reaper, research.

Recon.

He was getting the fats, honey.

Come on.

But

so,

no, I mean, actually, I saw his torso because he wasn't showing his face on the and you still.

Is that really what happens on these sites and grinder?

Like, if you just show body shots or like, I mean, some people, a lot of people show face, like, if they don't care, you know, but some people don't want their face.

Just based on a torso, you reply, you respond.

Yeah, he's like, he fine as fuck.

Okay.

And then we just kind of like started chatting.

I don't know if he messaged me or vice versa, but I mean, you know, at the end of the the day, even if you don't see somebody's like full body, if you have like, oh, like there's something attractive about them, like a nice person.

Yeah, you start chatting.

And then if you start chatting in a way that's not just like, let's meet five minutes from now, and like, cause he and I have been chatting for a couple of weeks, just like it came, it went from like, oh my gosh, your body's hot.

And then you can share pictures in the back office, what I like to call it.

Really?

So you can share all kinds of pictures.

So was your face on the app though?

Did they know of you?

You know, I was Shawnee from Hip Hop Abs.

You wasn't knowing.

I was gonna say so what were you showing your calf I was showing I was showing everything so your abs so you both had your torso yeah yeah

torso love yeah but um

anyway so we had a conversation and then we ended up meeting so I mean we ended up meeting like in the gym I mean it was well it was a date but

it was a date the first date was a date date like a date no the first date was a shutdown session honey that's what i'm saying like i don't know how to say it otherwise Okay, so what happened?

Really?

In the in the in the gym?

No, no, no, no.

I mean, I met him on, I told you, I'd be lying to people.

I don't tell them, I'm like, we met on the street corner.

No, you did not.

I said, where do you want to meet?

Let's check this out.

And that's what really happened.

You just hooked up with him and then you got married.

Yeah.

It was actually.

Honestly, the real love story is actually I met him on the corner.

I saw him sitting on the ledge of the CVS windowsill, you know?

Yeah,

yeah.

And

he walked over to me and I was like, oh

my God.

Like, I was like, I can't.

And we started walking.

I was like,

literally, like, we started walking and talking.

Literally within seconds, I was like, I'm literally going to be with this person for the rest of my life.

And I found out like

two or three months later, two months later, he said the same thing to himself.

Like, we just knew.

So then what was the problem that you couldn't accept love from him?

Okay.

So this chemistry was like undeniable.

Yeah, so we had moved in together.

We were like, you know,

you did.

Yeah, yeah.

But I just had a lot of emotional issues and it was really based around love and trust.

And so what would happen is it would be weird.

Like multiple nights a week at like two o'clock in the morning, I would wake up.

I would have these really crazy dreams.

I would literally wake up like sometimes screaming or cursing somebody out.

And then he would try to help me and we would be in the living room and then I would start blaming him.

Like it was wild.

It's, it's a very hard thing to talk about.

And he was like super patient and so kind as I was going through this like you know and it was really bad like most people would have been like i mean it didn't happen during the day like we didn't like fight like that during the day but it would always happen at night it was terrible with these dreams were happening these dreams were happening and i would wake up and then one day i couldn't go to therapy like she couldn't bring me in to talk so she was like hey i have 15 minutes can you call me and she was like you know tell me what's going on i was like you know every

so often every couple nights a week um i would wake up and she was like, you know, and I was like, two o'clock, like around two o'clock in the morning, like this crazy shit would happen.

And she was like,

but what happened at two o'clock in the morning?

And I was like, oh

my God, that was a time where I would be getting molested.

It was exactly the same time.

It was like exactly the same time.

I'm getting the chills because it was, it was crazy.

And that's why I like to tell people: like, you do not understand that the things that happened to you that affected you long ago that you suppressed come out in other ways.

Like, anything that's super traumatic, you need to get help.

You need to talk through it.

It's, it is a need.

It is not a want.

It is a necessity for you to have, you know, really great mental health.

And I just remember going to him and just like apologizing.

And that was the start of me like getting better in my head.

I actually started writing my book before that.

And when I went to therapy, I was like, I can't write a book right now because

like I don't have these answers, you know?

And then after I finished therapy with that woman who's amazing, I call her Babs.

Then I was, I was like, you know, finished therapy in a couple years after, just like utilizing all the things that I learned, I felt just like so great.

Wow.

So that was your second, was he your second relationship after that one?

He was my third relationship.

Fourth.

Oh, but why do you think it happened?

So that those dreams started then and not because I really liked him.

Oh,

like loved him.

I loved him.

I mean, I love him Still, the same.

More.

The same.

Like, I love him.

Like, he is so wonderful.

Oh, my God.

You can see it in your eyes.

He's really, really wonderful.

Like, what's the one thing that you really love about him?

That's hard to say one thing.

I think generally.

That draws you to him.

Like, his silence is so profound.

Like, he's really fun and festive if you meet him, but generally, like, he will disappear from a room.

And I notice that when he disappears, like I get super uncomfortable, I get super lonely.

Like when I left him yesterday at the airport, my kids, like, my friend, I saw a friend that I hadn't seen in a while.

And today he texted me.

He said, I think something was bothering you yesterday, but I'm sorry I didn't ask after you asked me how I was doing.

I was like, I just left Scott.

Like if I, whenever I leave the house, if I'm going on a trip, like.

We'll text each other like 10 minutes later.

He's like, my heart still aches when you leap.

I'm like, I know this is fucking terrible.

That is unbelievably beautiful.

you don't even hear you don't hear that very often yeah he's like really great you can see look at you i'm gonna cry because you're saying it you could you're like so emotional just talking about it it's really crazy like i really love him it's like like he i think it's like i almost say like it's unfair that people don't like some people don't get to experience this kind of love you know and it's not even love it's just like i like the entire

i mean don't get it twisted like we have our arguments you know we have to go through shit, you know,

never anything bad, but we definitely like are growing and we talk about things, but we don't have secrets and we have to talk about stuff.

We make a pact.

Like, you cannot not talk about something that's bothering you.

And it doesn't matter where we are.

Like, we're going to like, we're going to figure this the fuck out.

Cause it's just like what we do and who we are.

And he's the most important person in your life.

The most important.

Like, you know, I understand that kids are great, but like when my kids get old enough, they're going to be like, well, you know, we should be the most important.

I'm like, no, your dad is the most important because without him, you like, we don't have this kind of happiness, you know?

There's a whole thing in the Jewish religion law about that, right?

Because kids will grow up and they go on their own, you know, they go out in the merry way.

And they always say that like the

other person should be the most important person.

And the kids should know that too.

Our kids, they know it.

They are like, it's really great too that they know it.

That's what that was.

That's the whole thing.

It shows them

it models for them.

Scott and I will give each other a kiss or whatever.

So at night, Silas will be like, well, can I get a smooch?

And I'm like, I'll smooch you, but it's not the kind of smooch that I give dad that.

He's like, well, I just want to smooch you.

Oh, my God.

It sounds like you're such a nice family unit, though.

It is.

We, I mean, we really, it is really, really great.

And the thing that's like really great about our relationship is that we let each other grow.

Yeah.

We don't, we're not like, oh, we're together.

So we have to like live in this.

We, we're, we're the same people that right who we are when we met, but we're enhanced versions of ourselves.

And if he wants to experience something, go somewhere, try something new.

We never, we don't tell each other no.

I'm like, absolutely.

Yeah, go for it.

Yeah, I do the same thing.

I think that's what that's probably the biggest reason why so many relationships fail.

Yeah.

It's because people like try to hold that, you know, like the bird in the hand, or, you know, if you hold it so close, you kill the bird.

Yeah.

You just squeeze too hard.

Yeah.

That's a really good point, though, too.

So then still, how did you become this?

So is through your life experience that you kind of just became this human being?

Yeah, I think that like the evolution of who I am from the aspect of being a young kid

to my workouts till now is

my ability to continue to find freedom within.

Yeah, and you're still on this quest, right?

Like you're in therapy again.

But like, I feel like you, like what we kind of touched upon on the podcast with yours is that, you know, you're kind of like, I'm joke, I was joking around about like how you're good at everything, but quite frankly, you are good at a lot of things or you have interests in a lot of things, like a lot of people do.

I think it's, I think, you know, it's funny you say that because I'm like, no, don't say I'm good at everything.

But I think you just made a very valid point.

If I'm interested in it, and I have the ability to try it, I try.

You try it.

And I think that if you sometimes take professional athletes or actors, or when, you know, I even look at social media and everyone's like, what's your niche?

I'm like, that's really great.

Like, it's really awesome that you're a great athlete or you're a great social media influencer or you're a great artist.

But like, that's not the depth of who you are.

That's just what people know you to be really good at.

And it could only be one thing of 20.

Right.

And so, like, for me, one of the things that I had to learn, and it's kind of tough with social media, like, yes, I'm really great fitness motivator, right?

I wrote a book, I can speak, I have a podcast, but I love shaking my ass.

I love taking new photos because, bitch, listen, I'm fine as fuck at 44, you know, and I don't think you don't need to think I'm fine, but if you can,

if you don't look, if you can't look in the mirror at every step of your journey, I mean, I didn't always have the body that I have, but I'm, you know, I'm like, well, the only way you're going to get the body that you want is to love the body that you're in.

So like for me, I just continue to find that as, and I want that for everybody else.

So how do you, how do you tell people to find, to kind of get that for themselves?

What's the step to even do it?

If you don't have that intuitively or you're in a place where you don't feel great about yourself?

I think that like one of the things that you can do is make a list of all the things that you want to do.

And how many of those things are you going after?

And of the things that you're not going after, why aren't you going after them?

And the reason why you're not going after them is because of some kind of barrier that you put on yourself or someone else put on you.

And the most, and most of the time, the barrier is time.

And I believe that people say, I don't have time, but I can say, well, you have time to do social media.

You take time to do this.

Start taking time to do that one thing that you really just want to try and do.

Like it, you know, like just

go for it.

i i get you and so let's turn it to you because last time i talked to you you're like you're throwing a lot of stuff at the wall right

but do you take your own advice because what happens a lot of times is people can compartmentalize you as the fitness jehanti like you know because like if i didn't know what i know i'd be like he's amazing in fitness he's the fitness guy yeah but now it's like wait you if you just pivoted a little bit this way at 22 you could have done this you could have done that you could have had probably 12 other careers if you just like were interested in it and like tried it, like you say, right?

You were interested, and then you tried it, and then it kind of takes it from there.

So, why would it like, do you want to have like a phase two of your career?

Like, what's the path?

Like, what's the next thing?

Are you going to dive deep into the galaxy stuff or something else?

Like, what else are your

passionate about if it's not fitness?

Well, I think that fitness is always going to be a part of my life, right?

For sure, not just because of calories and calories out, but just because it makes you feel really good.

Right.

But like right now, I'm on a quest to help men release theirselves from having to be a man.

I think

one of the messages and types of messages that I get so much is from guys who are hiding something about their lives and they just don't have anywhere to go to.

Or like because of religion or because of men having to be strong, they find weakness in emotion.

They find weakness in expression.

And so like you said, throw noodles up against the wall.

Like, what am I doing?

So right now I am on a quest to create retreats for men to go to.

And,

you know, I have a whole plan that I'm doing, but like, I just want men to start to feel free.

As a 44-year-old man, you know, I found myself, you know, I didn't have like ED issues, like erectile dysfunction, but the stress of becoming a man, the stress of becoming a dad, the stress of becoming a business owner would affect me in so many ways.

And so then I had to like seek out hormone therapy.

I had to, I went back to therapy.

Are you on hormone therapy?

Is that why you're so big and on hormone therapy?

My testosterone was like unbelievably low.

My

stress was unbelievably high.

My, my, um, estrogen was really high.

I was 18% body fat in January and nobody would have guessed it because of the way, like I looked fine, but I was just carrying a lot of stress.

And I was carrying a lot of stress because I was like, well, I don't want to, I don't want to burden anyone else.

I don't want to, you know, I'm, I'm the quote unquote leader until I just started like

telling people like, yo, like.

this is how I feel.

I got surgery.

I found peace in doing nothing, you know?

And so how?

How do I find peace in doing nothing?

Yeah, yeah because by doing nothing by doing it because i would i like i said before interested you try it yeah but but like i said before as a high achiever doing nothing is laziness to me when nothingness and laziness and quotes completely changed the course of my life it did yeah because i was able to listen and hear myself think so because you just said something that i think a lot i i can really relate to like when i'm not doing something i do feel like unproductive i feel lazy I beat myself up.

And you feel that when you stop to do that, it changed.

I think that life is very similar to sleep, right?

Like my friend Sean Stevenson wrote a book, Sleep Smarter, right?

When you sleep, your body heals.

I think it's the same thing when you're awake.

When you rest your body and just chill for a minute, your body heals.

And for me, my mind was able to, I felt such freedom.

Like it was so wild to the point where I just started getting happy by not, by doing nothing.

Whereas before it was stressed me the hell out.

But because my shoulder forced you, you had, you had, I had to do nothing.

So you had a catalyst.

Yeah.

And then I went and I got a trainer.

I have this woman who trains me every three days a week, four days a week, who is like amazing.

Like she is just the most incredible personal trainer for me.

Like she is, I think I tell, I tell all the time, I think your parents made you for me.

You know, I say that.

I get massages.

I do a lot of self-care.

I gave everyone in my company each quarter, they get two self-care days, like two mental health days is what I actually call it.

I'm like, extend your weekend.

It is mandatory for you to take four days to be with and for yourself because, and don't do it when you get stressed.

Do it when you're happy because then you can think clearer and you're not stressed.

You're not taking these self-care days because you have to get out of stress you're like i want you to be like sean i feel so good like i'm going to take my my two days next week and i'm going to be like

great

you know because

you're vibrating at a very high level you know that's amazing that you i think more and more people are starting maybe to do that a little bit more but it does change the like just the the the i guess the vibes in in your in not just your corporation or company but in your personal relationships so they'll do it before you get to that place.

All right.

So, how long has it been now, guys?

It's been like an hour.

How long has this podcast been?

It's been like an hour or a half.

An hour and a half.

So, okay, so why don't we do this?

Why don't we like cut it here and then we can do another part?

Because I want to hear more about everything else.

We've covered a lot of stuff about the making of Shanti and, of course, all of your background.

By the way, which is, I just have to say, it's miraculous and just amazing how you were able to build the life you have given the life you were given.

And this is like, it's just, it's, it's, this is, this goes to show you that anybody can have what they want if they, if they, if they actually, I say, my thing is I say, chase what you want, don't take what you can get.

And you are literally like a

beacon for that, really.

It's amazing.

Thank you.

I think that, you know, life does.

give you what life is going to give you.

And I don't want to downplay anybody's struggles, right?

Because we all have struggles.

And I think one of the things that's really bad in in fitness it's just like that guy who just like hated on lizzo the other day about like her body and like again that happened yeah it's just terrible but i think what happens in fitness is that just because i have results like people think that just because i have results like you should do it too but you forget that you had a process to get to the greatness that you consider yourself to be.

And so for me, I just want to tell people out there, where you are right now is where you're supposed to be.

Just try to take one step to being the better you that you want to be.

Not be better because your mom says so, or your dad says so, or your friends say so.

Like be better because you want to be better.

Get to where you want to go because you want to go there.

be positively selfish in your life.

You know, the days of doing things for everybody else, that's really great.

Yeah, I want to help people make money.

Yes, I want to help people get fitter.

Yes, I want to inspire and motivate, but I have to be the nucleus of my existence.

I have to be the sun to my solar system, you know?

So for me, without our sun, I think I said this on the podcast, but you know, without our sun, like the earth would be frozen and immobile, right?

So be the sun, like be the sun to yourself, like create light and energy and

and warmth and just love yourself.

See, and this is why people like you so much, because you make them feel good about where they are and not feel guilty about where they're not.

And I think that's the bottom line, right?

And that's why your classes were popular at Equinox.

That's why hip-hop and insanity and like, by the way, I wanted to say this and we can talk about it next time, but your program, Insanity, was the top, top most successful program of all time in fitness.

It actually beat P90X.

I thought it was P90X and it was actually Insanity.

Oh, well.

It's like a, what, a billion.

How many copies were sold?

Millions.

I love Tony Horton.

No shade, but I mean, a little competition is fun.

Yeah.

I don't think you'd think so, but that's his.

Oh, he wouldn't.

Please, he probably still hates me.

No, I know.

No, no, well.

Well, I don't know.

Maybe.

I mean, listen, you know.

But I will respect that man forever.

Like, you know, I think very similar to me and Shalene Johnson.

Shalene Johnson, we like collectively had our way of motivating the masses.

And we all, which I think is really, really great.

And this is what I want people out there to do for themselves.

We all created a life that we loved and we attract people to our authenticity.

And that's what I want people to do.

Like, be as authentic as you can because it is true: quality over quantity.

A hundred percent.

I love that.

Go follow Sean T.

Tell to tell everyone where to find you.

Oh, cool.

Well, you can find me in the street, honey.

In front of CVS on our streets.

No, you can find me on all social platforms at Sean T,

um, S-H-A-U-N-T, or you can go to SeanTLife.com, sign up for my email list, um, and you'll be involved in all the fun stuff that I'm doing.

And there's a lot.

Thank you.

I loved having you on this podcast, as I'm sure you can imagine.

It's been like God knows how long.

We went way over.

So thank you.

Thank you.

I love you.

Thank you.

I love you back.

Habits and hustle, time to get it rolling.

Stay up on the grind, don't stop, keep it going.

Habits and hustle from nothing into something.

All out, hosted by Jennifer Cohen.

Visionaries, tune in, you can get to know them.

Be inspired.

This is your moment.

Excuses, we ain't having that.

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