How to Stop Abandoning Yourself in Any Relationship with Aaron Doughty | EP 90

At the deepest level of forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive, which will trigger a lot of people when they hear that.

But it's about understanding that it wasn't the divine essence of a person that did that to you.

The unconsciousness is what did it.

When you start to become okay with people not resonating with you, it's actually something that could be celebrated.

You came here to have the courage to express yourself, to be the real you, and it's not your job to please anyone else.

And the beauty of that is you allow the people that aren't resonating resonating with that level of you to leave, but also you allow in the people that really will resonate with that deeper, more vulnerable aspect of you.

I had to learn how to not associate my sense of worth by taking on their burden and then trying to fix them.

The other aspect I realized is that I was thinking that I was helping them when I was actually enabling them.

Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast, where today we're exploring the deeper, energetic layers of healing, specifically things like why do we keep attracting relationships that feel misaligned?

What are the subtle ways that we abandon ourselves, and how do we really shift that so we can authentically live our lives?

We're also going to talk about people pleasing, which really is a defense mechanism, and then how to stop dimming your light so that then you feel safe.

Joining us is Erin Dowdy, a teacher and YouTuber with almost 2 million subscribers, known for guiding people through awakening, breaking free from old identities, and really embodying their highest vibrational self.

Let's dive in.

Aaron, I'm so happy to have you here.

And I wanted just to dive in and talk about something that I know is really common with relationships.

So people oftentimes wonder, why do I keep attracting the same partners?

And you talk about this from an energetic perspective, which I'm really curious to hear your thoughts.

Like if somebody's attracting somebody that is, they're trying to fix the person all the time, what would you say is happening on an energetic level?

What do you see?

Well, I see two different things going on.

I see on one hand, there's an energetic energy that's going on that's being mirrored back.

And on the other other hand there's a spiritual component I believe that's happening as well.

Cool.

So from the energetic level it can be that people attract people that are reflections of certain patterns because subconsciously there may be some unresolved energy there and based on their beliefs, based on the patterns that they familiarized as a kid, they tend to attract people that mirror that energy back.

So a very common like pattern people might attract is if they are someone that overgives, someone that's giving a lot or trying to fix other people, they may find themselves attracted to people that overtake.

And one of the reasons being is because one, they may have familiarized that energy as a kid,

or they may also believe that it is their role or their responsibility to fix someone else.

The other component of this too is that there may also be an identity that they took on on younger that was an identity of, I am worthy if I give.

Yes.

My sense of self-worth subconsciously is tied to my ability to be good.

And to be good as a kid may mean that you abandon yourself to ease the tension in the family or that you abandon yourself to make mom or dad happy.

And then there's like this rule that's set up that is that in relationships, for me to be worthy, I must give or overgive or I must fix.

And that starts a pattern where then what happens is people that come into your life, you in a way tolerate a certain energy more than other people because that's normalized.

So whereas somebody that may have been in a relationship with someone that's an overtaker or that's kind of entitled, they may have been in that relationship and then chosen to leave the relationship or to set a boundary in that relationship because it wasn't something that was equal to how they see themselves being treated.

Whereas somebody that has that wound active, what they may do is they may put it to the side or say, I'm the only one that can fix this person or believe it's literally my responsibility to fix or I'm only worthy if I overgive.

So they tend to subconsciously say stuck in those kind of relationships simply because that energy has been familiarized.

Yeah, like maybe they think that that's what love is because that was just normal in their family upbringing.

Yep.

Which is interesting because then what could happen is they could actually have options in their life of people where there's more reciprocal relationships.

They don't see it.

They either don't see it or they're not even attracted to it.

Totally.

They're like, ugh.

They think that that's there's like something up with it or

it's boring, exactly.

They're like, I'm used to the high highs and the low lows.

And you also, it's kind of like subconsciously, they're like, I'm going to play a game.

This is the subconscious game we're going going to play.

The game is going to play, I'm going to fix you, and then I'm going to feel responsible for your stuff.

And this is all subconscious, of course.

But it's like, who else wants to play this game with me?

And then if somebody else comes along and they have a regulated nervous system, you look at that and you go, eh.

Not my person.

Yeah, not my person.

Not my feeling.

There's that chemistry.

I don't feel it.

And that's why I don't believe in the wrong person because what you're saying is everybody is mirroring to you or showing you a lesson or something to see.

Okay, so then take this person that's like perpetuating fighting somebody that's like, I need to fix them.

They don't essentially feel worthy about themselves or they learn that they need to be responsible.

And so that they try to fix somebody else.

It's codependent as a way to get them to love them and heal the missed experience that they didn't have when they were younger versus just cutting out the middleman and loving that part of themselves.

Yes.

And then they would resolve that pattern and they would stop putting up with anything less than they've offered themselves.

Yeah.

And the other part of that, too, I think sometimes that can happen is they're attracting people they can fix because subconsciously they're hoping they could have fixed mom and dad growing up.

100%.

So I find it happens a lot with the people that I coach or the people that I see, you know, that are kind of going through this kind of transformation.

It's a decision and a role that was picked up as a kid, but also subconsciously, the belief is that if I can fix my partner, they're going to love me.

They're going to give me what I need and they're going to meet my needs.

And then subconsciously, if you take that a little bit further, you can get down to the mother-father-child dynamic, which is very powerful in understanding how we relate to other people because the mother energy, the father energy is both related to different aspects of our life, as well as the inner child part of us.

And what happens though is if we aren't soothing the part of ourselves that feels like they have to fix or feels unworthy, then what happens is we just keep playing these patterns out.

So a huge part of this is understanding like where are we projecting our unresolved mom and dad stuff onto our potential partners or in our relationships?

And where can we take responsibility for that and begin to nurture our own inner child?

Because that inner child part of us really only wants attention from us.

Yes.

It can never come from the outside in.

It can never be satiated that way.

And we really think, if I got the partner, if I got the job, then I will finally finally feel resolved and whole.

And this is what we're sold to in society.

So I love that this conversation is happening because sometimes I think people hear it, but then they just go back to the pattern.

Yeah.

And then they go, that pattern oftentimes is blaming their ex rather than taking the lesson and the gift from it.

100%.

Yeah, I've been caught in this pattern before, too, where I would be in a relationship where it was a dynamic where I felt like I had to fix someone else.

It'd be someone that was like starting to go through a big spiritual awakening and then, or something like that.

They're like going deeper.

And there's been times where I wake up and I realize that like I'm trying to literally subconsciously fix them and bring them up to speed.

And then, if they don't come to where I think they should go so that everything can work out, I'm like, see, they didn't come around.

They're not doing the work.

And what I wasn't looking at within myself was that unconscious pattern where I felt like I was trying to fix mom or dad.

And if I could fix them, they could then see me and acknowledge me and also see my worth.

And I had to learn how to to not associate my sense of worth connected to other people's responsibility by taking on their burden and then trying to fix them.

The other aspect I realized is that I was actually thinking that I was helping them when I was actually enabling them.

Yes, this is so important.

I want to just double click on what you're saying.

And everything we're talking about right now applies both to business and love.

Just to be really clear for people that are listening, it's like same pattern shows up in different areas of our life.

When it comes to enabling, what I recognized was that I had a subconscious image of saying that this person needs to be fixed.

And because they need to be fixed, and my job is to fix them so that then they can come up to speed.

And subconsciously, if I fix them, they'll never leave.

That's the deeper layer of the codependent.

energy that people can start becoming aware of within pattern dynamics is there was a part of me that was so used to seeing this person a certain way or this kind of relationship a certain way And if I could fix them, then everything would be good.

However, the way I was seeing them was in a way flawed because I was projecting onto them a broken identity.

Yes.

And what I found was actually in the specific relationship I'm thinking of, when I actually stopped doing that, when I in a way separated and stopped seeing them as like

they need to be fixed, I stopped perpetuating that energy.

It was very interesting how much everything shifted, how much they took their own power back, how much the polarity and the dynamic completely reset.

It completely changed everything.

And it was because I was no longer trying to fix or seeing them as broken.

And that allowed the space for them to come up to their own solutions and to go into their own power.

And I found this not only in my relationships and like romantic relationships, but even with family members.

I've had times and family members that were like trying to help them.

And originally helping them meant money, solving problems using, you know, in forms like that.

To find out that I look back and I'm like, wow, that wasn't helping at all.

That was enabling.

And actually,

even though when I took that energy, like took away like fixing the problems via money, and I started just supporting them in a vision of like, you can figure this out.

What I realized was that I was allowing them the space to transform, but also I had to get comfortable with being seen as not the good guy, not the the saver, not the fixer that comes in.

And I think that was the resistance that I had to even ending that pattern earlier on was

to be a good family member, to be a good partner meant I'm a good person and a good person fixes.

A good person overgives.

And what I realized within myself is that for me, I had to shift more into being authentic.

and helping people to grow in a more helpful way.

And that meant letting someone go through sometimes some pain to like get the lesson.

And that space, though, has allowed them to come to their own conclusions and to make the changes in their life that they would not have made if I kept that codependent energy of fixing people's problems or using money to like

to fix.

And it's so innocent, you know.

And I love your vulnerability and willingness to share that because I think it's so helpful for people to see that it can be unconscious and we're doing our best, but these are ways to secure love so that we feel safe.

And as we heal that directly inside of ourselves, it elevates not only our businesses, all of our relationships, but also then being a parent.

You know, if we want to consciously parent, we're not enabling our kids and helping them really step into their full potential.

I could totally see how that would apply to kids, especially, who are super moldable and like, you know, susceptible to all these subconscious cues.

From what I've learned about kids, from like friends that have kids and things like that, because I don't have kids yet, they are kind of like playing out the dynamics of the frame you set, right?

So if you are playing the you know certain dynamics that we've been talking about, they're just kind of like mirroring that back and then maybe even rebelling in certain ways.

But

yeah, they are teachers for sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I remember one time we were on stage together, we both spoke at an event, and I had the privilege of listening to you.

And you shared beautifully about this Ho'onopono story.

And I was so moved by it.

I wanted you to share some of it here.

Yeah.

But also, for people that are in the middle of pain and they want to take 100% full energetic responsibility for their life, which is so powerful.

And I don't know why more people don't talk about this, but it's literally one of the number one things that will change somebody's life if they take responsibility for their energetic experience.

Talk to us about that and

Onopono.

First off, what I will say is I think sometimes where we get trapped up and where I got trapped up for a long time was a story about blaming certain things from my past that justified why reality was the way that it was.

So, for me, growing up, I had a controlling step parent in my life where I didn't have much freedom from seven to 17 years old.

17 years old, my dad divorced this person.

I then had all this freedom, and almost that freedom was like anxiety because I was so used to every part of my life being controlled, having to earn going to school activities, etc.

And then, all of a sudden, I have all this freedom.

And what I found happened is my stories when I was a kid was that life's not fair.

Things aren't fair.

You have to fight for freedom.

You have to fight for your power.

And there was always some authoritative figure in my life that was trying to control me that I had to fight against.

And that things weren't fair.

Well, subconsciously, growing up, after my ex-stepmom left my life, I then had that of a manager at Nordstrom's.

I sold women's shoes for years.

The manager of that department.

that was controlling, would get away with things.

Things weren't fair.

No matter who went up to HR, nothing would get done because she was protected by HR.

Just like when I was a kid, there was like that protection.

There's nothing I could do.

And in fact, if I said something, I'd get in more trouble.

Here I am at Nordstrom's.

If I said something, guess what would happen?

I'd get in more trouble.

I wouldn't get the schedule that I wanted, et cetera.

But what happened is she was in my life for a couple years.

And then actually, I went through a spiritual awakening in 2012.

And I started observing my thoughts.

And I learned meditation.

And I started to observe my thoughts.

And the big shift for me was when I started to observe my thoughts rather than react or try to control them.

And there was something shifted inside of me within like a week of learning meditation.

My whole energy changed.

I started feeling more present.

I started becoming aware of a lot of the beliefs and the patterns I was living in.

And this is in 2011, 2012, when I was selling women's shoes.

And what I recognized is that I was like, wow.

There are similar patterns in my life now that were in my life when I was a kid.

And I started really looking at that.

And I had to take responsibility for my viewpoint and my story about reality, that life's not fair.

There's always an authority figure that's trying to control you.

And what I ultimately had to do is I had to let go of being right because I'd identified so much with being right about reality.

See, things aren't fair.

Talking to friends or coworkers, we were trauma bonded at coworking because I had like nine people in my department.

We're like, yeah, things aren't fair.

Oh my gosh, she got away.

She said this.

We were like probably subconsciously addicted to that story.

And that fueled a certain part of me that like I think was like subconscious, but it was like I got to stay being right that things aren't fair and that this is the kind of dynamic.

And I think I got something out of that.

And it was a payoff.

And that was something I was becoming aware of.

And ultimately, what shifted for me is I started meditating.

And what I ultimately did is I eventually, after a few weeks of meditation, I forgave my ex-stepmom.

And I haven't had to talk to her really at all since I was like 17 years old.

However, one thing that I realized is I around that time became aware of Ho'oponopono, which has been around for a long time.

But basically, it was becoming aware that people are always doing the best they can with the level of consciousness they're at.

Now, at first, when I heard that as this, you know, as this probably 22-year-old, I was like, but that, but this doesn't make it right that she did all these things to my brother and I we didn't have freedom and we had to fight to go to school and we had to you know like sneak food to get enough to eat like all of these things but then what I realized is she was treated a certain way by her family and her parents for her to be that way now it didn't make it right but it did help me understand yeah and what happened is in that moment I also recognized that I had a spiritual awakening in 2012-ish that completely shifted my life.

I was more present, like I cold turkey, stopped drinking, smoking cannabis.

At that time, I was also taking Adderall.

That was prescribed for focus.

And I think part of the reason I had that ADHD is because for seven to 17, I wasn't allowed to have friends at all.

My brother and I didn't really have much of a personality because we weren't allowed to.

So after that, there was anxiety that came with the freedom, but also I'm allowed to have friends.

I'm allowed to be social.

So I was very extroverted.

And people would say, why do you have so much energy?

Because I've always had a lot of energy.

And I'd feel like, I don't know, I just have a lot of energy.

And then I'd go to a doctor and they're like oh you have ADHD so I took Adderall which the side effects were really harsh for me it was like couldn't hard to sleep hard to eat so then I would smoke cannabis to like make that work so I had this like almost now that I think about it was like a codependent cycle that I had with these things that was getting me by but then I learned meditation and started to observe my thoughts observe the even the identity of having ADHD and I started to let these go and forgiving my ex-stepmom within, you know, I had that spiritual awakening that shifted everything.

So in the moment of the gratitude for everything I'd been through, I realized that I had a spiritual awakening.

So in a way, I was grateful for what I went through.

Even though it was like, didn't make much sense and it didn't make it right that all this stuff happened.

I genuinely was grateful because I don't know if I would have had a spiritual awakening if it weren't for all that pain.

So what ended up happening is within two weeks of recognizing this and forgiving my ex-stepmom, that manager that we literally tried to get fired for like literally two years, but she was so protected by upper management.

She get away with so much crazy stuff and what she would say to people.

What ended up happening, though, is within two weeks, she got fired.

And it shifted when I shifted.

So that was a huge shift for me: understanding I had to take responsibility of that story, and I had to forgive her and take responsibility for my interpretation of her, which was a huge insight.

Now, what you're referring to is the process that I shared at a friend's live event, which is this process of ho'oponopono, which I found out about through a book that I read that was called Zero Limits, I believe.

One of the powerful concepts in it came from the story of this man whose name was Dr.

Hugh Len.

And he's known for modernizing this process of ho'oponopono, which is a process that's been around in Hawaii for a very long period of time and has traditionally been used for families to get along because they're such a community-focused group of people.

And what they would use is this process to like heal grievances between different family members, but also different families in general.

And what he did is he would use this process called ho'oponopono, and it's four simple statements.

It's I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, and I love you.

And these are four simple statements that anybody can say.

And what happens is when you're saying these statements, there's an energy behind it that goes into the dynamic for the healing so that you can really let go of the energy that is connected to whatever patterns you want to release.

Now, Dr.

Hugh Len, what he did is he would use this process to, in a way, heal and like experiment with it in his practice of what he would do.

And what he did was, is he went to a hospital that was a mental health hospital in Hawaii.

And what he did is he would use ho'oponopono.

And what he would do is he was there for about two years.

And just to get and kind of paint the picture of this place in Hawaii, it was like a mental insane, like asylum type place.

And what would happen is people that worked there were afraid for their life.

There were some patients that had to be sedated.

There was an energy of like walking on eggshells that was in there for the people that worked there.

And it was kind of a chaotic environment.

Well, what he did is he went into this place.

For two years, he was there.

And within two years, many of the lesser cases, some of them were able to actually go home.

The complete vibe like shifted over the course of the two years.

People weren't afraid to go there to work anymore.

People weren't like afraid walking around the halls.

Less people needed to be sedated.

The whole entire vibe shifted because he was using this process of ho'opono pono.

Now, the interesting thing about it is

he did not actually psychoanalyze people.

He didn't bring people in his office and look at their child to trauma and work with him and do like role-playing or anything like that.

In fact, what he would do is he would just go over on a sheet of paper their files and then he would do this process of I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you.

And what he would do is he would take responsibility for his interpretation and the fact that he could even see these files.

He would then

clean, it's called cleaning, he would then clean his perception of it.

And what he would do is he would see these people as healed.

So what would happen is he would go, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you.

He would see these people as healed.

He would heal the parts of himself that were even able to interpret what he was reading in the paper.

Well, what happened is the complete energy shifted in this place, everything got turned around, and he didn't actually even talk to and psychoanalyze the people.

I thought that was fascinating.

Yeah.

Now, the other aspect of this, because I saw, I read that, and it just sounded too good to be true for me.

I did a little more research on it.

Yeah, I'm thinking of quantum physics.

I'm also thinking that there's no separation.

So he's healing the part of them and he's also being a model in the psych ward so that he's not afraid.

He's bringing in different energies.

So there's multiple levels that I'm interpreting of this.

Which, which I agree with what you're saying too.

That's kind of my theory or philosophy on it as well because he actually, even though he didn't psychoanalyze and work with people in a chair, what he did do is he would walk around the facility and engage with people.

Just talk to them.

And not be afraid of that.

And not be afraid of them.

And he would see them as healed.

And he would, he would, anything he'd perceive in other people, he would take responsibility for.

So he did actually engage with them, but he didn't like go through and psychoanalyze it.

Now, the way that I relate this to like healing in our own life and how we can apply it is that how often do we expect or see certain people in certain ways?

So we expect certain people to let us down.

We expect certain people to be in their patterns and we see them as maybe broken.

But that image that we have, we may be also projecting onto them.

And we're not really holding the space for them to shift.

And the deeper aspect of this that really goes down the rabbit hole of is who are we?

And

are other people other aspects of our consciousness that we're perceiving of?

Which is the deeper aspect that I really like looking at because other people in your life may be playing out certain subconscious patterns that are active inside of your field.

And when you make a shift inside of your field by taking responsibility for it, you might find that people either will shift out of your life if that pattern no longer resonates, or you will get a different version of the people that are in your life that are reflective of that new pattern and that new belief that you have about how people are.

So it becomes this interesting dance where it's like it's all a reflection anyways, but our job is we can't control the reflection whether it's people leave or they come back or it's it's more so about understanding the dynamic.

Now, one quick thing I'll say about this, because a lot of times when I share this at live events or in even live workshops, et cetera, people have trouble and challenges saying, I'm sorry when they did it, right?

Yeah.

Like, you could just, I know.

I'm thinking of also of your stepmom, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's like, did it, does it make it right?

Yeah.

You know, here's an interesting thing that I heard Eckhart Tolle actually talk about and I thought was interesting.

The people that are playing out the patterns, it's not really the person that did it to you, it was the pattern inside inside of the person.

So, when we start taking the personalization and the identification of it out, it becomes a little bit less personal in the sense that this person was doing this to me.

And the way that I heard this is Eckhart Tolle was talking about how at the deepest level of forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive.

Which will trigger a lot of people when they hear that.

But it's about understanding that it wasn't the divine essence of a person that did that to you.

It was their traumatized self.

It was the part of them that modeled that from the past or from their society.

Not saying it's right.

Yeah.

But that is the energy.

So it's not the divine essence of the person and their presence that did it.

It's the

unconsciousness, exactly.

And that's when Eckhart Toll says, you don't have to forgive, it's because it's more so connected to the unconsciousness is what did it.

Because the consciousness inside of a person that it's aware that this is a child or that this is another aspect of me, would you abuse another aspect of you if you knew that that person was was a part of you or if you knew what you were really doing probably not it's an unconscious part of you that's doing it or whoever you know whatever the situation is so the thing with this is is what you're talking to when you say i'm sorry please forgive me thank you i love you is you're saying that in correlation and communication with the divine with god i'm sorry per perceiving i'm sorry for even perceiving of this.

Please forgive me for having this pattern inside of my energy field.

Please forgive me for the unconsciousness that's within the collective consciousness, that's within this energy.

We're taking responsibility for the energy and the pattern and the unconsciousness that we can perceive of more so than we are taking responsibility for the person and what they did because that's also kind of that's the story that we're talking about and the part of us that doesn't want to let that go is the part of us that wants to continue to blame,

or the part of us that wants to continue to hold on to the story because it feels familiar.

Or it's a protection mechanism.

Or it's a protection mechanism.

Because if I hold on to the pain, then somebody else won't hurt me.

But actually, that just perpetuates the pain.

Because if I judge somebody, I hurt.

Yes.

And so coming into frequency of acceptance, which is the ho'onopono, it's coming into harmony with what is, where we feel free.

And so one way to do that, maybe on a spiritual level, and maybe this is where you were going, was also to see what the gifts were.

What was this mirroring to me about what was in my own subconscious?

And how do I use this to heal that pattern inside of me?

Because I often will say, stop focusing on the person.

What's the pattern that's playing out?

Because if we judge the person, then we're stuck on the surface.

And if we go to the deeper thing, it's like, what's the pattern that's playing out?

And how can I resolve that inside of me?

I'll get the lesson, I can move on, or I'll get the lesson, and the whole pattern will shift with that person.

Yeah.

Because I've now gotten the lesson from it.

But you're right.

It's not like we're accepting it.

We're not a doormat.

We have boundaries, but we can still learn from it.

Or we could leave or stay, but we're doing it from a place of peace and alignment.

So if somebody cheated on me and that that's not an agreement that I'm willing to forgive, then I can still come into acceptance this happened, but I could leave feeling pissed off or at peace.

Yes.

The leaving is the same.

Yes.

The inner experience, the acceptance is what I would do, or the forgiveness is what affects me.

I find that powerful.

I was, even what you were just talking about, like if somebody's been cheated on, you can think about it like the story, the surface level of the person and what they did becomes this surface level story.

The drama that you talk to your friends about and you perpetuate and you keep hurting yourself.

But then you keep it in your field.

And guess what?

You're more likely to attract in the future.

Yeah.

Something that mirrors back, the betrayal.

And I remember Eckhart Toll was, I like Eckhart Toll, obviously.

And me too.

And if nobody has read A New Earth, Best Book in the World, by far.

That That power of now for me is like,

one time somebody asked about betrayal.

You know, I went through a betrayal and he sat there for a second.

He goes, betrayal, so heavy.

You know, it's like this betrayal is this heavy word.

Ooh, this person betrayed me.

It's got such weight and heaviness to it.

When at the core, when you look at what happened and our story about what happened, One is way more inflated than the other.

What happened was you were in a relationship with someone.

Someone broke the agreement or went off and slept with someone else, and that's what happened.

But the story around this isn't fair and this is betrayal and how could this be?

And I didn't see it and I feel naive.

These, all these energies are also probably coming up because there may be some core abandonment wound there.

There may be some core unresolved energy there from childhood or from other aspects of consciousness that maybe we weren't aware of.

So in a way, you can look at that and you can, in a way, also, you could could be grateful.

You could be.

When you do the work.

When you do the work.

And I think it's important to also have space for the anger and to have your honest feelings and express them, but in a conscious way.

So we have the anger, but we don't live there.

We express it.

And then it's like, now what do I want to look at?

How do I use this for my growth and healing?

Yeah.

And even with what we were talking about earlier, because some of it mine sounds somewhat insensitive to certain people based on where they are in their process.

Exactly.

But there is something to be said about allowing the space to feel sad, to feel anger, to feel whatever comes up.

And even in this process of like the betrayal thing, I've had moments where I felt betrayed by friends or certain situations.

And what would happen is I did feel angry.

And I was angry at them.

Then I was angry at the pattern.

Then I was angry at myself for allowing and being naive.

And I went through this whole process.

But ultimately, that awareness led me to eventually being able to forgive and to accept.

And when I owned that, and then I let go of the story, and I let go of that emotional charge by like not getting high off the dopamine or the drama of it, that was when I was able to like own it versus the story of putting it outside of myself.

See, they did this, they betrayed.

That's where we don't have to take responsibility for the pattern inside of our field, which is the only place that we have the ability to really shift any energy from.

It's from our field.

That's why I think it's so like ho'oponopono could be so powerful because what he says is that everything is data everything is information and the out of the 11 to 15 million bits of information that are around us at any given moment we can only perceive of about a hundred bits per second of information now what that means is based on what energy is active inside of your field you are able to perceive of such a small sliver of that information so that's why people reflect back the patterns that are active or you bring new people into your life or certain people leave your life because that's the energy that's within your field.

So that's something I've gotten a very powerful benefit of being aware of my projections, being aware of how people relate, the kind of people I attract, but not just the people.

What are the patterns?

What is the filter?

Because it's an inkblot world.

And so we're filtering it through our patterns and we're picking up on certain things, like the red car.

You buy a red car and then you just see red cards.

And so it's like, oh, it's just the filter that I'm seeing it through.

And then you're saying, taking 100% responsibility for that filter, maybe getting to a point where we thank the person to help us see what the pattern is so we can complete it and move on from it.

Yeah.

There's a million different versions of this, but it means you could evolve and then maybe have a relationship in a new way.

Or maybe it's like you evolve, you appreciate the person, but you still move on.

It's like there's so many different versions of it.

It's about getting to the core of you and what the integrity and the values you choose to live by.

That's right.

And as you do that, then you attract to you the people that resonate with that.

Or you might have to set boundaries and say no to energy that you used to tolerate or used to rationalize.

That's right.

And if you don't choose to do the work, then most of the time people stay stuck in the surface level of judging them and defending against it, but then creating and attracting more of it.

Yes.

So there's the unconscious way and there's the conscious way, which we're here.

And anybody listening is proactively doing the real work.

Yep, for sure.

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I've heard you talk about that empaths oftentimes will attract narcissists.

Yeah.

Talk to me about, that makes sense to me, just to unpack it for people, if there's a powerful practice that empaths can embody so that they can break that pattern.

Yeah.

So first off, I found myself trapped in a cycle for years where I felt like I kept attracting people that were narcissistic.

And I was somebody as a kid that I believe as a survival mechanism.

This is what I believe about empaths.

First off, I believe a lot of times what happens for empaths or people that can feel other people's energies is at a sensitive level because being an empath as well is like something that is a natural thing that can be very beneficial when it's in a certain proportion.

But what we're talking about normally is somebody that feels other people's emotions so deeply that sometimes they abandon themselves or they find themselves sucked into this empath narcissist dynamic.

Well, what I believe happens earlier on in life is if it didn't feel safe as a kid to be in your natural energy, to have your own perspectives or to be in your own frame, what we may have done is we may have shifted our energy to then say that I must mitigate the tension in the family.

In order to survive, I must tune to others.

So, tuning to other people became a survival mechanism to say, am I safe?

Am I okay?

Whose tension do I need to mitigate?

How can I make mom or dad happy or friends happy, etc.?

And this, as an adult, will trickle out into people's lives if the pattern goes unlooked at.

Now, what happens is empaths, people that can feel other people's energies, that have this ability that they've gained as a kid, as an adult now, they might find themselves abandoning themselves for other people, hyperactively like tuned to other people, saying yes when they really want to say no and vice versa.

Not setting boundaries.

Not setting boundaries, kind of being a people pleaser and saying yes when it's like actually not even authentic to say yes.

But it's a pattern that they learned to stay safe and to be worthy or it's who they believe they need to be in order to get by.

Now, very often, what will happen is they may attract a narcissistic person into their life.

Now, a narcissist or someone on the other side of the spectrum, what happens is a narcissist, in order for them to feel safe, there is a certain sense of perceived self that they project onto the world and they feel like they have to live up to.

So it's almost like a toxic frame of reality.

That's their sense of self.

Even though it's a normally it'd be this toxic frame of reality, it's still a strong frame.

And the difference is that the empath who has a somewhat weak frame because they're tuning to other people versus being in their own frame of reality will find themselves attracted to these people that have a very strong frame, even though it's a toxic false sense of frame.

So they find themselves attracted to these people.

And then also it fits inside their dynamic as well, because they feel like normally they can fix the empath.

They can help the empath.

Who else is going to hold space and help this empath?

And they can kind of like see and resonate with their their trauma in a certain way now on the other side of the spectrum this the way that i can simplify the whole empath narcissist thing as a kid is as a kid the empath their survival mechanism is i will tune up my ability to feel so that i know how i need to be in order to get by It's like a safety strategy.

A safety strategy.

Over, like hyper-vigilant, looking at everybody else so that then I'm okay.

Yes.

So that's a mechanism they built.

Turn up the ability to feel.

Now, on the other side of that, you get a narcissistic or controlling person and what they may have done in childhood is turned down their ability to feel other people's emotions because it was overwhelming in the childhood to feel emotions for both the empath and the narcissist the difference is that the empath turned up their ability to feel so that then they could change and control themselves to then get by and to feel safe whereas the narcissist will turn down their ability to feel so that then they can justify and get get by being a specific way and maybe be unaware of how everyone else is feeling, but at least then they feel safe.

So, both of these are strategies to feel safe, or strategies, at least in the perceived sense of safe.

Correct, yeah.

They're both wounds, but they're the opposite side of the spectrum.

And so, one is more grandiose and kind of entitled, and one is more shame underneath the surface-based, that's almost a shame to even show it.

So, a lot of times, what will happen is the biggest insights for both of these, and especially for the empath is to begin speaking and to leaning into vulnerability actually expressing what they really think and what they really feel which will feel scary at first because there'll be a fear that if i share this they're going to feel tension and remember their tension is my tension because i've turned up my ability to feel so what happens is they block themselves from actually being authentic subconsciously because they're still in this pattern.

But one of the reasons they've attracted each other is because they're opposite sides of the same thing, the same core wound.

Both shame-based.

One is more grandiose, shame-based, that has this false sense of self.

And one is more under-the-surface shame-based that doesn't want to be rejected or abandoned.

So who would, how do I need to be?

So the other, though, of each of these possesses...

in a way it sounds weird to say but they each possess the under or overdeveloped part of each other so for the empath there's actually something to learn from the narcissist totally now the thing with empaths is they think to themselves, well, even though it's a false sense of frame that the narcissist is in, they have a sense of frame that subconsciously, I believe the empath is attracted to somehow.

And if the empath were to begin being in their own authentic frame and to trust themselves that it's not going to turn into this toxic thing over here, because when you start to tell an empath that, they're like, I don't want to be like this person though, but you're not going to be like this person if you just set a boundary or if you tune inside of your your body and you speak from your heart.

Like you more so want to come into the middle.

Now, of course, it's obvious that this person's an empath, can feel other people's energies and possesses the opposite of what this person has underdeveloped, which is the ability to feel other people's emotions and energies and to be thoughtful, to be more compassionate, etc.

But nonetheless, both of them have the opposite side of the pattern that's underdeveloped in the other.

And of course, the answer is to come more in balance with it and to begin embodying that part of you that maybe hasn't been activated before.

So for me, when I went through this transformation years ago, the way that looked like is I had to start as an empath.

First off, empath, narcissist, labels, I think, can be very limiting.

I mean, I think on Instagram, people are like calling everybody a narcissist because they've heard that term and it's trendy.

Yeah.

And I think what you're saying also is like your partner expresses what you repress.

Yes.

And so you're saying there's medicine for each other.

Maybe it's not a healthy version of it.

Right.

But what I'm hearing you go towards is for the empaths, because usually narcissists wouldn't go to therapy, coaching, or listen to podcasts like this, like true narcissists.

But there is gifts and to learn from that experience.

And so to look at, okay, you were, and I would love to hear, Wicca, what your practice was around this to help you come into harmony with your own power and your own authentic expression or experience.

Yeah, a lot of it for me was becoming aware of the pattern and becoming aware of the energy, the patterns within my relationships, and then also becoming aware of the pattern of seeing where is my opportunity for growth.

And I could tap into my body more.

And that's where everything shifted, by the way.

There's a very simple process that I call the frame technique.

I learned it from a shadow work integration coach that I had years ago.

He had a double PhD in psychology with an emphasis on Carl Jun psychology.

And it's a Za Zen principle or technique that I learned.

But I call it the frame technique on YouTube.

There's videos on YouTube where I talk about it that like, but it's not actually called the frame technique except for I coined it that because I didn't know what else to call it because it was just this technique.

But basically what it is, is you feel the separation inside of your body between you and other people and you and even objects.

Because here's the challenge with the empath.

The empath sees everything else as an extension of them.

But what they've done as a kid is they've expanded their field to include their family, to include their environment.

So what happens is your tension is my tension.

So if I mitigate your tension, I can feel good, but the energy is too far out and too expanded.

Now, what happens is this technique is very simple.

What you do is you stare.

at a candle flame or any object really but a candle flame has always worked powerful for me and it's what i recommend because your eyes focused on one point.

First off, there's a couple things that happen here.

The first thing is when your eyes are focused on one point, your eyes aren't wandering around.

When your eyes wander around, your mind wanders.

And I remember it clicked for me when I was in a Bikram yoga class years ago and she's like, eyes and yourself on the mirror.

Eyes that wanders a mind that wanders.

And I was like, oh, that's the, that's part of that, I think, the magic of this, this candle flame.

But you stare at a candle flame and on the in-breath, what you do is you feel the separation between you and the flame.

You feel the space in between you and the separation.

You feel strong in your sense of self inside of your body.

And then what happens is you stare intently on the flame itself, the center of the flame.

Then on the out-breath, you relax and you relax your peripheral.

Doesn't mean your eyes are looking around.

It means that you're softening the gaze.

around the flame and on the out breath you then feel at one with your environment you allow yourself to soften in that energy.

So on the in-breath, it's self.

And on the out-breath, it's connected to other.

And really, what this is when it comes to empath and narcissist dynamic of what's like what the room for growth is, it's understanding a healthy aspect of self and a healthy aspect of connecting to others.

And what happens?

is if you think about it like zeros and ones, like in the matrix.

So zeros and ones.

And think of zeros as other and ones as self.

What happens is if you're an empath, you look around and you see zeros everywhere, right?

Or technically you see ones everywhere because everything is a part of yourself, right?

But what happens is,

and whereas like the narcissist or the controlling energy would also in a way sees it in the reciprocal or the opposite, obviously.

But the thing is, is what we want to do is we want to become healthy in our sense of self, which really means healthy.

inside of our body.

It's like as a kid, if you didn't feel safe, it's like you weren't really in your bottom three chakras, which I know is a more spiritual idea.

Yeah, energy centers, energy centers.

Yeah, you weren't in your body because it wasn't safe.

You weren't in your body because it wasn't safe, exactly.

So, what happens is part of the frame technique as well is bringing that energy back inside of your body, feeling the separation between you and the walls of the room you're in, you and the candle flame, you, and you can even bring certain people into your mind.

You know, these are some esoteric concepts we're talking about, like energy cords with someone else, which is kind of connected to ho'oponopono as well.

People that you're around a lot, what you can begin doing is imagine them and feel the separation between you and them.

Doesn't mean you can't still talk to this person or love the person.

It just means you're taking your energy back.

And maybe by taking your energy back, you let them be in their own energy and then you're in your own energy and there's more healthy dynamic there.

Yeah.

Like a differentiation.

Yes.

And oftentimes this roots back to childhood.

So, for example, for me, and I'm just realizing empaths really go to spirituality because that's the like the leaving pattern of like leaving the body because the cosmic world is quote unquote safer.

But actually going getting into the body transcends the body.

Yes.

The ironic thing.

But for me, it's interesting because with my mom, I perceived that she didn't have her power.

So I jumped in to help her and created a pattern of over-responsibility.

And so one of the things that helped me also was going back to that original moment of seeing her as a child and seeing that she did have her power.

Questioning that she didn't, finding ways that she did, and then also doing some of what you're talking about, this differentiation process.

I saw a golden light around me kind of connected back up to the cosmos.

And then for her, that she had her own energy source.

It didn't need to come through me.

I don't know if you've ever studied the five personality patterns.

Yeah.

So there's like the merging pattern, which is you find energy through the other, that is my mom.

And then there's a rigid pattern, the leaving pattern, which is more like empath, some of this like taking off out of the body.

So I'm just hearing what you're saying and putting it through different frames in my own life.

And also, this energetic bubble or egg, this golden light that we have our own unique energy supply that we can tap into and not just need it from others

can be really helpful.

And when we're doing some of the subconscious work, even if we go back to our childhood to reinvestigate what we believed to be true, to say, did they not have their power or was I safe?

Was it okay?

To see again, I find that even just saying while you're in that more subconscious state to say, that was then, this is now, or that was them, this is me, to find that separation.

Yeah, that's powerful.

Those are powerful ways of looking at the energy and being able to see how you relate to other people.

I'm sure relating to your mom in that way probably also shifted.

Yeah, it shifted you guys.

And also, probably that was leaking into maybe other areas of your life.

My team.

Yes.

Exactly, which is interesting.

That does happen in business a lot.

You're like, oh, where's this pattern also coming through here in business?

You know, the patterns in general, when it comes to self versus other,

it's a way for us to like start learning how to feel safe in our own body.

And also, for me, the thing I had to learn to do was to tune to my body way more

and to learn how to operate from a level of vulnerability and the form of authenticity.

So, instead of abandoning myself, instead of being nice, that's the other thing that you have to like learn to let go of.

Because here's the thing with being nice.

To be kind is not attached to outcome to be kind is attractive to be nice is an energy of i'm going to be nice to get something in return yeah even when you if you have a everyone has a friend that's nice right you're like oh he's nice

oh she's nice it's said like that it's like they're nice because it's an energy where there's this this energy it's not completely authentic yeah there's a subconscious pattern there it's like i'm gonna be nice to get you it's controlling.

It's codependent.

It's manipulative.

It is.

And when you can feel someone that has that nice energy, you feel kind of like you can feel that energy coming onto you.

And you're like, I don't want

these things attached to this.

Yeah, I opt out for this one.

So the thing that I had to be aware of in myself was these energies inside of myself of feeling safe in my body and operating from the lens of authenticity and vulnerability instead of approval and validation.

And that changed everything because that meant there were certain friendships that I had to like rebalance dynamics with.

That meant I had to express myself in times when maybe it wasn't the most comfortable.

And I had to embrace in a way, at least my perception of what it meant to be a good person.

Instead of being a good person, I chose to be an authentic person.

And when you're authentic, sometimes you're going to say things that maybe don't feel good.

Not I'm saying anything like to hurt people, but I'm saying how I really think or feel.

Maybe it doesn't please other people, but maybe it's not supposed to.

And what I found what happened is as I was shifting into this, it was like there was much more respect there.

Totally.

There was more respect.

There was more reciprocal relationships.

There was more of an understanding that I can have a different perspective.

That was when I really began shifting into like much more powerful masculine energy in my business, in my dating life.

Everything shifted.

And it was because I was shifting and I was more present.

You know, I've been on YouTube now for like eight years, and I remember even in my content, people are like, Your energy has shifted so much.

And I'm like, you know, I see myself every day.

I'm, yeah, you know, but it's like, it wasn't this mind-blowing epiphany that changed everything.

It was feeling safe in my own body, tuning to my own frame, tuning to my own center of authenticity, tuning to my heart, expressing myself, even when sometimes there were moments where there'd be like, what are people going to think of this?

Or someone going to, you know, like this or not like what I have to say, choosing to do it anyways.

And then when you do it, you think in your mind that the whole world's going to crumble down.

People are going to start yelling at you.

But that's not what happens.

You express the real you.

And even if people don't 100% like, it's not the old dynamic of how they're used to seeing you.

There's respect there.

Or you feel good about you.

So you don't need the same thing that you used to want from them or need from them.

You no longer need.

need.

So it's like you're operating from a different frequency where you're able to tune to more of your energy and you like you, you value you, you don't abandon you.

And then you're not tied to what other people do or don't do.

And you've taken responsibility,

which is ultimately the theme of what we've been talking about this whole podcast.

Yeah, it's powerful because I'm just thinking of people who are in a pattern of pleasing and they're hearing this.

They're like, and pleasing is weak.

Loving is powerful because people can feel that pleasing is a defense mechanism to try to say, I want you to be different so that I get what I want, or I can't tolerate your reaction.

So, I'm going to try to manipulate you to get you to be how I want you to be.

But we can feel that.

So, somebody that's listening to this, and maybe they've conformed their whole life because

they didn't feel safe being authentic.

What I hear you saying is to start really coming home to themselves to feel safety in their body.

And maybe even what I would also add to that is insourcing safety.

So, the part of them that doesn't feel safe, they can bring safety to that part of them to breathe into it so that then they can speak their vulnerable truth.

How do you view safety?

Safety is only here in the present moment.

Yeah.

And it is accessing a deeper well-being, your true nature.

Yeah.

And so it's out of the mind, it's in the body, it's in the here and now.

Because sometimes people have a story about safety in the future, but that's not real safety.

That's an anxiety-provoking thought.

Yeah, I always, it always trips me out because my old shadow work coach, he would tell me, me, safety is not an emotion, it's a concept.

And I started thinking about this because I'm like, because we say it, I've said it many times on this podcast, like feeling safe, feeling safe, feeling safe.

But subconsciously, some of us may only feel safe in certain toxic dynamics, which it's like, is that really safe?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Which is an interesting thing to contemplate because it's like someone may be around someone that has a regulated nervous system and they're not used to someone with the regulated nervous system.

So that may bring up stuff in them, them, which doesn't make sense because it's like, well, they're, you know, they're safe, but it's like now there's other emotions coming up to be processed because they finally feel safe enough to let it come up.

Yeah.

And when people come to my live events, people can shift a lot because I think it's not the magic of what I say.

It's literally because I think a lot of people have watched my YouTube videos and they feel safe with me.

So when they come, their guards go down.

Healing happens in the presence of the presence of an empathetic witness.

So if I'm coaching someone on stage and I'm just present with them and I'm not judging them, I'm not trying to change them.

And then they have like a big breakthrough, stuff may come up.

Uncomfortable emotions may come up, but it's because they're allowed to come up because there's not that old codependent pattern or something.

But anyways, it's the reason I mention it, it's the fascinating thing to me because I'm still like exploring in my mind, like, how do I describe this?

Or that's why I was curious.

Yeah, yeah.

And to me, safety is only in the present moment.

And it's part of our true nature.

It's our true nature is loving, is accepting, is safe.

There's a ground of well-being underneath the insecure thoughts and feelings that as we say yes to whatever thoughts and feelings are here, it opens us to this deeper safety, this deeper okayness, contentment or joy, not high joy, but just this grounded

peaceful joy.

Yeah, peaceful.

And so part of the way that I would invite somebody that's listening to this and they're hearing their sort of like, wait, I play out pattern of pleasing and now I'm judging myself for that to really just bring acceptance to that pattern because it was the best way that they knew how to create safety for themselves through compassion and to just breathe into that and to welcome it.

And as they do that, they open to a deeper safety and ground of well-being that's always here, independent of the thoughts and feelings that doesn't matter what comes and goes underneath all of that is this well of well-being that we can access through acceptance.

And so just giving people hacks and practical things, I think, is really helpful because I think this conversation is really beautiful and probably opening up different channels in their mind.

And then the other thing around, you know, having been a psychotherapist and working in that field, a lot of the times with couples even specifically, they would hide or hold back parts of themselves that they were afraid of being judged or rejected.

Yeah.

And I don't think that they realize that the judgments of others only hurt when we have an insecurity about it ourselves.

Yes.

Like salt on a wound.

If there's no wound, the salt doesn't hurt.

Right.

So the power is not in their judgment.

It's in our judgments.

And we can shift that.

Yeah.

And so what I'm hearing you say is like, as you fully authentically learn to express yourself and you feel safe in certain relationships, just stretch that muscle, people are attracted to you.

You actually let that in because you're more authentic.

It's like, oh, I'm letting it in because I'm not pretending to be someone.

They're really seeing me.

And because you accept yourself, they're also that reflection in that mirror.

Yeah, it's interesting.

It's like when you think about that idea of like being attractive or having magnetic energy or wanting acceptance from everybody, the truth is in our minds, we may think that's what we want.

We want everyone to like us, but do you really want everyone to like you?

Like, do you want sociopaths to like you?

Do you want narcissists to like you?

You don't want everybody to like you, but in the mind, that can be like as a survival mechanism, the belief.

So when you start to become okay with people not resonating with you, knowing that when other people don't resonate with you, it's actually something that could be celebrated instead of like avoided because of the abandonment wound or whatever it is.

Now, what it means if somebody doesn't resonate with you, it means you had the courage to be the real you, you had the courage to express the real you, and you then allowed other people in your life to see the real you.

And the beauty of that is you allow the people that aren't maybe resonating with that level of you to leave.

So you don't keep having superficial relationships taking space in your life and blocking the other people that could be coming in.

But also you allow in the people that really will resonate with that deeper aspect, more vulnerable aspect of you.

So it's not our job to manage what that is.

All of that, of whether people resonate with you, don't resonate with you, etc., is something that you just let go of and you recognize that your job, your task, is to focus instead on you being the most authentic version of you, you expressing yourself and knowing that who's meant to find you will, who's meant to leave your life may.

But something I've learned is that as I go deeper within myself, I only attract people that are deeper reflections within myself or reflections of that new energy.

So it's not like you lose, you know, the depth that you've created.

You just go deeper, and some people in your life may go deeper with you, or you may also make space for people to come into your life where there is that depth with.

So I think that brings to the people pleaser, maybe a little bit of understanding that, like, you don't have to manage any of this.

Your job is just to be the real you.

And the thing that maybe you came here to learn at like a soul spiritual level was you came here to learn how to be in your own frame.

You came here to have the courage to express yourself, to have the courage to be the real you.

And it's not your job to please anyone else.

Yeah, we did come here to learn unconditional love, but unconditional love comes with no conditions.

You

And it includes the pleaser.

It includes the part of us that pleases.

It's like, oh, okay, sweetheart.

I really see that that's the way you thought you needed.

Makes sense.

And then coming back to ourselves.

I find people that are attracted to probably mine and your content, they tend to be people that are spiritually connected, that these things were amazing gifts that got them to where they are.

Exactly.

Like I was thinking about that when you were talking.

I was thinking of us most likely having more empathetic tendencies based on childhood.

And a lot of the listeners here, coaches, therapists, and healers and helpers in the world or interested in personal development, helping others.

A lot of the times for me, the things that I may have to heal and work through my trauma around over responsibility pattern, for example, actually gave me gifts as a really good coach and therapist.

For sure.

So once we've done the work to heal, it's also still developing those gifts, but from a healthy

point of view.

Yeah.

You can be grateful for it because we wouldn't be doing what we're doing today.

Really?

If we didn't have that trauma.

Yeah, if we had the perfect childhoods and the perfect everything, you know, we may have not had the desire to learn and like kind of like figure out some of this stuff for ourselves and then how we can help other people.

Yeah, it's a gift.

Totally.

And it's a gift as well, I think, for people that are empaths or even people pleasers to become aware of this pattern.

Most of the people listening have probably been through some form of spiritual awakening or self-development awakening, which means it served a purpose regardless.

Totally.

But, you know, a lot of these people are people that are healers, life coaches, and connected to that.

So it's like, who knows?

That was maybe a necessary prerequisite for you to get where you are, but now it's time to integrate it in a healthy way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I would want to work with somebody that's walked the path and they've learned in a book.

They've really embodied it and they've really taken themselves into account first and foremost.

Yeah.

I know one thing you talk about shifting your external reality is to send love out into the world and to other people.

Is this part?

Can you share with us some of this and what that looks like in a practical way?

Yeah.

One of the things I'm most passionate about when it comes to live events or even online is getting people together to do group mind-heart coherent exercises where we visualize bringing in more light and love into the world.

Because I believe we're all connected to a collective consciousness where we, in an interesting way, have like chosen to be in this reality from a higher spiritual level, I believe.

And I believe that when we come here, we forget who we are to then remember who we are.

And I believe that what happens is one of the the ways in which we can influence our reality, our collective consciousness, is through energy.

And when we come together, I believe there's a very powerful, coherent energy that we can create that can very powerfully affect the planet.

And they've shown this in different ways before with experiments, whether it's the meditation effect or the Maharishi effect, where 5,000 meditators got together meditating on peace and love and doing something called transcendental meditation.

and it decreased violent crimes on the planet by a substantial percentage for days afterwards.

And if you were to track certain events that happened on the planet using the Schumann resonance or different tools, there is a fluctuation in the energy of the collective consciousness based on certain events happening and certain things happening in the collective.

Well,

I believe that there are people on the planet that know that when you are able to kind of control the narrative or control the energy and you keep people scattered and fragmented, you're able to remain in control, in a way keeping people from understanding their true power.

I believe that on the opposite side of that spectrum is a kind of a spiritual awakening that's happening on the planet right now for millions of people.

And I believe that what we have the ability to do is to come together to create mind and heart coherence and to visualize what kind of world we want to create.

And one way that we do that is through guided guided meditations at live events or different, like, you know, workshops, live virtual things, even.

It can create a very powerful experience for us to get together and for us to visualize what we want to bring into the world.

Visualize us having a coherent vision of the world that we want to live in.

Whether that's more peace, more love, more unity, less fragmentation, less chaos, less separation.

There's other books that kind of talk about like the power of a certain number of people coming together and and coherent groups.

You can even create where you've got like eight or nine people in a group that are visualizing someone in the middle as healed and getting into mind and heart coherence and holding that vision.

It can be very powerful.

Even reminds me, didn't we do that exercise at that live event we're talking about?

I don't remember.

Tell me.

Were we in the trailer before that live event where we went around in a circle and we talked about what we wanted to create?

Oh, yes, and we did do that.

That was my manifestation process.

Yeah.

I do that at all my live events now and people love it.

Yeah.

It's like people love it because people in their normal day-to-day life, their friends and family may see them a certain way.

So what happens is they see them a certain way.

They hold the vision for them in a certain way.

But imagine if you had like eight other people or six other people seeing you in your most divine light, which for those watching right now,

we spoke at a live event and...

We did this exercise I'd never done before where we went in a circle.

And what happened is we would each take turns sharing it as if it was six months from now, what we had created in our life speaking about it as if it's already happened so I am doing this I'm traveling the world doing what I love me and my relationship are doing this and we're you know I have a New York Times best-selling book someone said in the group like we're talking about all the things we wanted to to create the kind of energy we wanted to live in etc and then what happens is other people that are in the group pick up on that energy and start hyping it up and like feeding into it to where then it's like other people are saying like oh when you went on that podcast it was amazing, which and like stuff like that, where it's like, you start feeling it as if it's happened and then they're seeing it in you as if it's already happened.

There's an energy shift that happens.

Yeah.

So we did that exercise and I thought it was so powerful that now at live events, people do that and we have them like voice memo it.

Yeah.

And then they listen to it later.

Same.

Yeah.

And it's so powerful.

Yeah.

So what I did at that event is I had people walk around as if the party, they had already stepped into all of their dreams.

And so they they spoke to each different person and they were and

they would start speaking as if it happened that person jumps and elevates their vision but then you can also record it so that they can go back to when they go down to this like

fear lack separation you know baseline yeah they can listen to it and re-ignite it another thing i've done with that around manifestation yep is in a mastermind i have them share their vision for what they see in in the one person starting so for example if somebody was holding space for me a small group of people they would share in the voice recording the celebration of what they see for me having already happened and their excitement and their level of heightened awareness.

So, if I couldn't tap into that, I could also phone a friend and have them share it in a group where they record it.

And then I can go back to that.

Actually, I have that.

I should listen to that.

I asked a group that I did to do that.

So, this is fun.

These are different manifestation hacks.

I love that you're doing that now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's cool for people because some people may tap into it more when they're saying it and then they hear other people kind of like chiming in.

But some people may relate to it more if they hear other people because of how their brain works.

So it's like, I see what you're mentioning could be very powerful because they may digest information better where it's like they visualize that if someone's saying it to them.

Yes.

Of course, the energy behind the magic of this whole thing is that the key is shifting our energy field now

as if it's already happened.

That's right.

It's the thing that where people get stuck a lot is they're like, one day I'm going to attract this, this, and this.

One day, I can't, you know, when I start, when I start, when I start.

And the thing is, is if it happens one day, that's not now.

Right.

And it's always one day.

It's always in the future, which doesn't exist anyways because the future is a concept.

So it's like, how can you prime your energy field now to feel it as if it's already happened?

Because the things of whatever symbol we all shared of what we wanted to create, Those were all symbols of a certain energy state that we wanted to feel.

So it's like if we can feel those emotions now and create that inner shift inside of ourselves now and live from that place then we're going to attract out of the 11 to 15 million bits of information 100 bits per second we're going to start perceiving of ones that are more in alignment with that energy that we've created inside of our field yeah so that's the magic of it too it's like this is all fun exercise yeah but ultimately the the deepest level is that you are it that's right already here that's right and i think when people are trying to manifest it in the future they're just affirming that it's they're separate from it and it's not already here yes I've also heard you talk about this like pedestaling of desires when you really want it.

It's essentially energetically blocking it, which makes a lot of sense.

Can you unpack a little bit of that and also maybe share in a story in your own life around this?

Yeah.

Well, when it comes to...

Anytime you have something that you really, really want,

if you really, really want it, you really, really lack it.

If I were to like want this glass of water, wouldn't it look ridiculous if I was like, I want a glass of water?

And I was like sitting here and I was like, yeah, so Alyssa, I really want a glass of water.

And if I had it, and you're like, you have it in your hands, just drink it, right?

It's a silly idea because when you have it, it's just, you don't want it, right?

So energetically, what happens for many of us is we want something that we're energetically lacking and infusing that it's not here now.

But then another thing that we can do is create something that is called excess importance.

Anything we make really, really important, we put on a a pedestal.

And on that pedestal, it's up there.

We energetically distance ourselves from it.

What we energetically say is, this is not natural for my identity.

This is not natural for me.

We are then separating ourselves from it.

And remember, if you treat someone like a celebrity, they're going to treat you like a fan.

That's like a general understanding of, yes, some like, you know, energy pattern, but that's like in any area of your life.

If you're like, it would be really, really amazing to be in a relationship.

Oh my God, it'd be really, really amazing to have enough abundance and it'd be really, really amazing.

Like, it'd be so amazing.

And it's on a pedestal.

And you, you believe in the false narrative that that's going to complete you.

That also will block that thing from happening naturally.

Now, the truth is, as I've lived my own dream life over the last, you know, eight years, when I went from working at Barney's New York selling women's shoes to doing what I love, traveling and living with more abundance than I probably would have imagined many years ago,

if I were to go and shift from there to here, it's like the person I've become, it's like natural for me.

It's natural for me to be and, you know, traveling the world, living in abundance, having investment.

It's natural.

It's not on a pedestal.

It's not really, really crazy.

It's natural.

Just like different areas of your life or like by the time you're in the dream relationship or whatever, to be honest, in that dream relationship, there's probably still going to be work that you're going to do.

Yeah.

Right?

Like it's, if it's on a pedestal and it's like, once I'm there, then it's going to complete me and then I'm going to feel whole and complete.

When really it's about understanding that this importance we're infusing onto these different things in our life is the very thing that's blocking that thing in our life from actually coming in.

As you're saying this, I'm just hearing like, say somebody wants to speak on stages, then maybe manifesting through being like, oh, I've got these talks scheduled on my calendar.

I need to get an EA to help me organize my calendar because of these talks.

So kind of lowering the frequency around it, the I want it, and really looking at the practical aspects of having it already helps shift the energy around it a bit.

And also little things that you do in your life now, you can see it as if you're already doing the same thing.

So even though you're not on stage speaking with a certain number of people in the crowd, you may be giving a talk at some company or something, like going in and doing a little talk for 10, 15 people.

You're doing it now.

Yeah.

So it's like you're already in the energy of it.

Somewhere in my life, I remember when I was first learning about this concept, because it comes from this book called Reality Transurfing.

It's a book written in Russian.

It's like, if you go to Russia, it's like their version of the secret.

Okay.

It's a well-known thing out there because I've talked to some Russian people.

They're like, oh, it's a thing.

Anyways, it's a book written by a Russian quantum physicist, and it has this idea of importance.

And that's where I learned about it, and I read about it years ago.

And one of the ways I applied it at that time that I was learning about it was I wanted to, I was in Vegas at the time where I was born and raised.

And I was, I was putting this, I wanted to move into this specific house that I found out that I was going to rent for a year.

And I found out that the rental market was like vamping up in Vegas.

And what happened is there were like, there were like five or six other applications on this house.

And I immediately went into this competitive, not competitive, but like scarcity.

Like, oh, am I, I want this house.

It was like the Zen Buddhism vibe and like very tranquil.

It was the perfect price.

And I was, I just started making, I think, like more money in my business.

So I had the money to spend on on it.

And what I learned from this book or whatever, this whole, you know, importance thing is not putting it on a pedestal.

But the other thing that I did is I would visualize it.

I put in my application for it, knowing there was like five other applications.

But what I did is for like a week or two leading up to getting the approval and everything, I visualized it as if I was already there.

I visualized it as, because I knew the layout of the house because I already saw it, getting up every day, doing my morning routine there.

And what I did is I thought of all the difference I could make in the world by tapping into, like, you know, the value I could create in the YouTube videos and how I would feel there and all of this stuff.

There's another concept from the book that has to do with something called outer intention, which is this idea of tapping into other people's intention where it becomes like a win-win in a way.

So, what I did is I wrote a letter to the people that own the house and I said, hey, I just want you to know that this is who I am.

This is what I do.

This is, I think you have a beautiful home.

I'd love to live there for a year.

I know I'm younger, but I don't party.

Like, I thought maybe they see my ID.

They say I was a young guy who's going to party and I'm like, this is this, I just, I focus on my business, blah, blah, blah.

And lo and behold, like a week later, I ended up getting the house.

But I attribute a lot of that to the energy of me just like being calm with it and seeing it as natural for me.

And even now, like I went from the YouTuber identity for like eight years on YouTube of making lots of YouTube videos.

Now I run live events.

I hot seat coach people, bring them to the front of the room.

Like I get into the unknown a lot when I'm doing what I do now.

and I visualized it as natural.

Yeah.

It's natural.

I have some friends that do the same thing and we talk and like it's natural.

It's not this crazy cool thing.

And, you know, it's, it's, I, I, so I've applied that little microcosm to other aspects of my life.

And because of that, there's less resistance.

Like when it comes to a relationship, for example, I know that, you know, when I meet or if I meet like somebody that I have a deeper connection with, that I, I move into like a more committed thing, it's not going to be some, like there's no desire.

Like it needs to happen or any specific way.

It's like, if and when that's meant to happen, it will.

I'm good and I'm, I'm confident in my own energy.

I'm loving my life.

I travel.

I do what I love.

There's so many aspects of my life that are so rich.

So why focus on resisting and putting things importance and all this other stuff, which isn't my thing to control?

Yeah.

I could just enjoy life and then.

It's a different energy.

That's right.

And it's fascinating because that's the same manifestation story that I did to manifest my dream home, which I'm in now.

I wrote a letter, multiple multiple offers, and I kept seeing myself getting ready in the bathroom.

And it just, I couldn't help but do it.

It's just what my subconscious was doing.

But also what you're saying of like you being good and whole within yourself, yes, attracts that at the similar vibration because you wouldn't put up with anything less.

And then also the visualization tells your subconscious that it's safe.

Yes.

So it's like the subconscious will think anything is unfamiliar is unsafe.

And yet if you're visualizing the day-to-day, you're getting the green light from your subconscious.

Your nervous system is settled.

and then it attracts more easily into your life.

And I also did the, I didn't know that this was a thing, but it's like, how does having what I want serve the world?

Yes.

And I think that also just comes into alignment with our values if we have a value of service.

So it's like, yes for me and yes for everyone.

Yeah.

I, I, I, one of the biggest things I think that I think is very important for what we do or what any you have a lot of coaches and people that are in this kind of like industry of putting themselves out there is when you make it about the other people and you allow God, the divine, the universe, whatever name you want to give it to flow through, you have a different almost bandwidth of energy and resources to tap into.

And it takes a lot of the nerves out of it.

Like when I run live events, there's always a little nerves before I go on stage for the first time.

And then once I create coherence within the group by telling stories and stuff, then it's like, it's so easy.

Like literally eight hours a day, two days in a row, nothing's planned or anything.

It just happens because I also am aware that it's not really me as Aaron Douche, this name.

It's a divine energy that flows through.

Yes, using my stories and all of that stuff, but it's like it flows through.

And I believe that when we make it more and we have a pure vision, a pure vision of the people we want to impact and knowing that it's not about us and the ego gratification and all of this other stuff.

It's like the universe will give you more or God will give you more because you're not letting the ego take the front seat and like reap the benefits.

And that doesn't mean you can't enjoy life too.

Like I, you know, you have a beautiful home.

I like nice houses.

I like beautiful experiences.

I like amazing food.

So it's like, there's a part of me, I prefer it, I don't need it, but I don't over-identify with it.

And I'm not like, I'm better and more superior than everybody else.

So there's a balance of letting it flow through and understanding you are where you are because the divine has flown through you.

So that comes with a big amount of responsibility too.

That responsibility goes into how you carry yourself, your integrity, how you interact with clients, how you interact with other people.

Are you really living by which what you preach?

And that's like a self-inquiry practice that I'm constantly looking at inside of myself because I personally believe that things continue to grow as long as I'm continuing to be authentic and grow, but also give awareness of where it's coming from.

It's coming from something greater.

And if you, if you remain pure in that, it'll keep coming.

When you get into the unknown, when you're coaching coaching a client or something, a lot of it is intuitive.

It's because it's not you.

You know what I mean?

It's you're tapping into a space with someone else and you have the trust in them to have the answer.

And you have the trust in the God inside of them to bring that answer to them.

So I think that that's always been important for me to remember when it comes to live events, in-person coaching, even just friends and other things.

It's like, it's having that energy really also brings a lot more fulfillment because there's less pressure.

And it's also, it's just, it's more heartwarming.

And And more enjoyable, more fun.

It's like that self-consciousness is gone.

And then it's a larger wattage, especially with groups, for that divine energy just to move through.

And then it's, I used to think it was about receiving the work.

And then I realized actually

serving is another level of wattage that moves through.

It is so nourishing for the nervous system on all levels.

Yeah.

Aaron, I could talk to you forever.

I just, I love, I know, there's so much synergy and alignment and synchronicity in terms of what we talk about.

And I know my audience is going to want to stay connected.

Talk to us about what you're doing, what you're up to, how do they stay connected?

Yeah, so what I'm doing, so thank you first off for having me on.

It's been a lot of fun.

I'm going to be soon going to Europe.

I was telling you about.

My goal is to just run lots more live events.

I'm really passionate about using the collective of a group and the energy of whatever lessons are meant to be in there and playing that out in specific ways to help people get breakthroughs.

And then also guided live meditations.

Other than that, YouTube channel, Instagram, and live events on my website, which is just aarondowdy.com.

And that's going to be my focus coming up pretty soon.

Amazing.

And we'll put all the links in the show notes here below so people can easily access it.

Thank you, Aaron, for just being in the world, being my friend, and coming on the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me, Alyssa.

What a gift.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself.

It truly does make a difference.

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Leave a review on Apple or Spotify, submit a screenshot of that, and upload it to alyssamabriga.com forward slash podcast.

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I have so much more magic I want to share with you, and I cannot wait to do that soon.

But for now, I just want to say thank you so much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in the world.