Tap Into Your Vulnerability with Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson

Your mom go to work at six in the morning, she off at six in the evening.

You don't even see her when you get home from school.

So, I've seen the dedication that she put, but she also never demeaned my father.

Yeah, she never demeaned him in no type of way, never spoke bad of him.

So, when I started having my own kids, you know, when I you got a lot of them, I got a lot of them.

Do you do how many kids?

I got six girls, my daughter, okay.

No,

I don't have no 17 kids.

Okay, I got five, I got five girls of my own, one out of marriage, and I got two boys.

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Michelle Obama.

Hi, Craig.

How you feeling today?

I feel terrific.

Is that crochet?

You'd be better telling than I would.

Do you like that?

It's mesh.

It's mesh.

Very fancy with your little silver buttons.

I tell people all the time the hardest part about this job is keeping up with your wardrobe.

Well, that just won't happen.

You should give up.

I know.

I know.

I should start rerunning my outfits.

I should.

Oh, you can't do that.

Sorry.

I won't allow it.

No, no.

But you look cute today.

Thanks.

I feel cute.

What's new and exciting in the Robinson household?

Not much.

We just got back from Orlando from a AAU extravaganza into the summer.

I couldn't be more happy with the end of the summer, but we had fun.

We had fun.

The boys played well.

And it was extremely hot down there.

Did they win?

They won enough games to be proud.

They won more than they lost.

That's good.

Did you rent a car?

We did.

We did.

It wasn't a Rivian, though.

Uh-oh.

It was the Rivian.

It's good.

It's good.

Our listeners know that we were gifted Rivians to test out and talk about and uh it's it's going well you know i found a new feature tell me because

there's so many features i finally took the car to go get washed tell me about that and you know i was thinking you know taking the having the car in the driveway having the kids wash it that cell phone but i was like i'm taking it in to the car wash and it's got so many cameras and sensors it was going crazy while i was going through it i was like it was one of those you stay in the car it was one you stay in the car and and uh it was, you know, telling me that there were cars coming up behind me and to the right.

And so I was going through the

screen and I found a spot where you hit it for car wash and it turns off all the cameras, closes the windows.

You can't accidentally open them while you're in there,

pulls in your mirrors and turns off all the cameras and sensors.

Nice.

That's something to keep.

They have thought of everything.

They have thought of everything.

That's good.

All right.

This is this is one show we have.

I have you two.

I have.

We have been waiting for because we have a couple of guests here who are

killing it in their own right.

Yes, they are.

And

a couple of

basketball legends.

And I'm talking about Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson.

And

probably the first guests that I have to look up to.

Literally.

Literally.

But

Matt Barnes spent 14 seasons in the NBA.

And for those of you who listen to our show, 14 seasons in the NBA is an outlier.

Most of the folks who are in the NBA are in there for a hot minute and are out.

He excelled as a defensive specialist and enforcer.

His basketball career ended with the 2017 championship championship with the Golden State Warriors in his final season.

He is a proud father, the CEO of All the Smoke Production, the co-host of All the Smoke, and an investor slash advisor for several companies.

Stephen Jackson also played 14 seasons in the NBA.

So note two for, I mean, that.

That's a rare thing.

God, 14 years.

He was pivotal in the San Antonio Spurs 2003 championship.

He is the co-host of the hit series All the Smoke and has emerged as a spokesman for human rights and equality for people all around the world.

These guys had me on their show

back when we were first getting started.

And they are killing it on the smoke.

They're killing it on all the smoke.

Matt and Stephen, come on out, fellas.

Come on, join us.

Hey, guys.

Hi.

What's happening?

Welcome.

Welcome.

I'm Loom Grape.

Way taller than I thought you were.

The heels.

Thanks, brother, for being here.

Thank you, brother.

Being here for having us.

Matt, thank you.

You guys, it's so good to see you.

I heard your AAU

summer, huh?

Doesn't that take the whole summer?

It just takes the whole summer, and it's bad basketball.

Oh, it's horrible basketball.

You coach too?

Are you the coach?

Same with me.

It's just bad hood.

So what makes it bad basketball?

Well, you got.

And what do you mean by bad basketball?

Well,

where do we start?

IQ.

First of all, he's around it every day.

He's talking basketball IQs.

And these are NBA guys.

I just want to get to where

not everybody's an independent contractor.

Let's just play like a team.

That's like a bunch of people.

You're supposed to play.

Play it right.

Learn how to play.

You'll get seen.

But if you keep playing like this, guys like me who used to be looking at you guys will go into the next guy.

What age group are you coaching?

15 you.

Okay, I'm 16.

13 you.

Yeah.

I just feel like to your question, Michelle, it's just this generation of kids are super skilled, very skilled and talented because they're training, but they're training individual training.

So it's head down.

How many times can you put the ball between your legs?

Just all the stuff that doesn't really add up to the next level.

So college is, you know, all these spacing and ball movement and playing off the ball.

And then obviously NBA is the ultimate show for that.

But these kids are just head down and go to the basket.

And it's very individualized and selfish.

So the hardest part for me, and probably for you, is just getting these kids all on the same page because they're all the best team, they're all the best kids on their individual teams.

And we try to come together for the summer and be a unit.

And

it's difficult sometimes.

Yeah, it just feels like AAU is just an industry.

Oh, yeah, it's moneymaker.

That's all it is.

I always give him crap about.

the deep investment in AAU for my nephews because it's it's like to me and this will be controversial it's like it's not doing anything for these young men and women you know i mean i had always hoped that sports would be that place where kids would learn not just the the skills but they would learn how to be on a team learn how to do things yeah from team sports right

have some role models learn how to listen you know learn how to lose learn how to win with grace and it just feels like these this whole league is just all about money and that's all it is and convincing some parents that your your child child will be the next

whoever

Stevens.

Yeah, to me, it's like a gift and a curse because AU was a blessing for me.

I come from a small town where if I didn't have AU, nobody would never have heard of me.

So that's why I used it to be to make a name for myself and become a top high school prospect.

But now it's not even for that.

You know, it's

a lot of people are playing the game for the wrong reasons and around these kids for the wrong reason.

Yeah.

Can I just say, just as a point of introduction,

is that I am so impressed with the both of you on so many different levels.

Which means she's through talking basketball.

No, no, I know we could talk about it.

No, and the queen talks about all this and now.

But, you know, watching you guys

podcasts, watching you out in the world, watching how you carry yourself.

watching how you do talk about more than just basketball

and how you are serving as role models for men connecting with something other than sports.

I mean, that is one of the reasons why I'm really excited to have you guys on the show.

You know, you just don't meet men like you often.

That means a lot, especially coming from you guys.

I mean, and that was our thing.

You know, we were kind of outcasts or bad guys in the NBA, but it was just what we had to do to survive in the league.

And I think our transformation post-NBA has kind of opened a lot of people's eyes.

And again, never perfect.

We've had a lot of mishaps, but I think, you know, genuine and pure hearts and wanting to do the right thing and understanding that, you know, we don't take this microphone for granted.

You know, being a trusted voice in the black community is something that's, you know, very near and dear to our heart.

And, you know, I mean, we're here now.

You know what I mean?

So again, it's an honor to be here and we appreciate that.

Yeah.

And you talk about a transformation, but was it?

I mean, you know, you all came into the league as enforcers or that became your, you know role um probably because you're hungry you need to win things you learn but when i hear about your backgrounds you know like i see the humanity in you then you know it's just sort of like that that league played you had to play some role that wasn't you because you just don't become this if you weren't already that right and a lot is you know miss misunderstanding too like

people can will consider you and put you in a certain category but we just love playing basketball and we played it with the ultimate passion.

So just because I played the game harder than you don't mean I'm a thug or I'm a bad guy, I'm a forcer.

I just play the game with the passion and want to put my body on the line.

And you're not willing to do that.

And that's why we look that way at times.

Me and Matt just love the game and we love our teammates.

Everybody didn't love their teammates.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

We loved our teammates.

And that's why we're so close now because we're very identical.

We don't look, I look better than him.

But

as people, we are the same.

And I think that's a lot of people see that now.

But I don't think, and you guys tell me this, when you first got drafted and you were just going in, you weren't going in with the mindset of, I'm going to be this guy.

Michael Jordan.

Right.

And whoever you thought you were going to be.

No, we didn't.

I wanted to get in the NBA, make a career and last and make some money and change my family's life.

I didn't go in there trying to be the best player because I knew that really wasn't feasible for me.

You know, I got drafted second to the last pick.

You know, I went overseas a couple years.

So that wasn't my role.

I went in and to find my role and it worked out for me.

I think obviously finding a role is instrumental for anybody because everyone thinks they're going to come in and be the next step for LeBron or Michael Jordan or Kobe or whatever.

But those guys are, you know, once in a lifetime type players.

And to find your role is what gave us both longevity.

We found out, okay.

Yeah, I'd like to do more of that, but that's not what they're looking for.

This is what I'm going to do.

But I think back to your point, too, and I think we caught the end of social media with our NBA career.

So what you saw is what you get you know so you may see jack slap somebody

or me cuss out a ref and you think oh man there's such but you know you saw two hours of a competitive guys that were doing anything to can just to continue to to to you know prolong our careers so i think again post-career was when social media really started hitting and we were able just to show who we were and again not perfect but real um and i think that's been this our secret to success transitioning is we didn't switch up.

You know, we both worked for ESPN and Fox and worked on these networks and now have our own thing, but we've, you know, wholeheartedly been us the whole time.

And it surprised a lot of people thinking that, okay, you can play this way and you can talk this way and still do this.

So, where did the idea for all the smoke come from?

Go ahead, bro.

You tell the story better.

Oh, man.

We were fellowshipping.

Yeah, that was, you know, we were sitting back after Sunday.

We were at my my place.

I had a place in the bay still right when I retired from the Golden State.

And we happened to just, he came in town and we were hanging out, watching games, and we were both having some success with Fox and ESPN.

And we kept getting a lot of feedback.

You guys need to do something together.

You guys are authentic.

You guys are real.

I mean, obviously, we were brothers, but it was just like he was Fox and I was more ESPN.

So we were just kind of, okay, what can we do together?

And I was just like, let's do a podcast.

And we didn't really know what it was, but I'm just like, I think we could more authentically be ourselves.

You know, he's like, what's a podcast?

I'm like, I don't know, but I think we can, we can, we can smoke and and we can drink and we can be ourselves.

And,

you know, I'm kind of the one that's in the weeds, learning the business and understanding stuff.

And I had an opportunity to meet with Brian Daly, who was at Showtime at the time.

He flew out from New York and we met at a hotel.

And I pitched him an idea and he liked it.

And he had to fight tooth and nail to get it passed because this is Showtime, Showtime, like the linear network.

So they're just like, you want guys that are smoking weed, talking about sports on our network?

They're like, no, that doesn't work.

So he had had to, he put his life and his job on the line for us and fought for us.

And, you know, first season in, we went sports podcast of the year and kind of just flipped the whole industry on its back.

I think we were the second, I think knuckleheads, Quentin Richardson and Darius Miles were maybe a handful of months behind us.

But when we came in, we kind of really feel like we kicked the door in.

And now we're almost, you know, kind of like the godfathers of this space because there's so many podcasts out now.

But I do want to say with the amount of podcasts out, we don't look at anyone as competition because I feel like we're unique in our own ways and everyone has their own journeys and own stories.

And I think a player's perspective is what fans as a whole want to hear.

That's what I want to hear.

Now I'm a fan now that I'm done.

So I want to hear what a fan has to say or what a pro has to say.

So we got a ton of brothers and sisters in this space now.

And I think it's great because now for so many years, it was only the talking figures that had never played that are speaking on who we are, who we think we are, instead of us allowing or us talking for ourselves, but also allowing our brothers and sisters to give their own truths and painting their own pictures.

So, well, and part of showing that piece is folks understanding and knowing your stories, you know, little Matt and little Steve.

Little Matt.

You know, and I am, I'm so moved by what you guys have both been through.

But talk a bit about growing up, you know, what your childhoods were like, what home was like, what it wasn't like.

I know you've talked about it before.

Our audience is new to you, and

I want them to know all of you because that's also what makes you special.

For me, I grew up raising my grandmother and grandfather.

So I'm a grandma's baby.

I'm a grandma's baby to this day.

I get emotional thinking about it.

I have a lot of aunts.

I was raised by a lot of women.

I grew up in the church.

I'm transfer Muslim now, but I grew up in the church, grew up singing in the church choir, trying to sing.

Trying to sing.

No, he doesn't.

Okay, never mind.

I will do that to you.

Don't gas him up.

I will not do that.

Just a real family orange.

Small town.

Eight sets of low-income housing, one or two high schools, one grocery store.

So I seen it all.

Just thankful that I had a great support system.

My city, every time I tried to get in trouble or be something that I wasn't, they protected me.

And they saw me with the talent to go to the NBA when I didn't see it.

So my city just protected me.

Small town pulled out to Texas.

Jimmy Johnson, Janice Joplin, they all from there.

Jamal Charles.

Kendrick Perkins is from 15 minutes away.

But I had a great upbringing and I was lucky that I was around a lot of love because I made a lot of mistakes.

And the people around me showed me that you have a chance to be something in life.

So I owe it all to my city and my family.

Is your grandmother still alive?

She's my grandfather.

I both passed.

Yeah.

Were they able to see?

Yes.

So the first year I made it to the NBA, my grandfather passed.

So he was able to see me, my grandmother.

So

worked out.

Yeah.

Me, man,

biracial child, Italian mom, black father, growing up in the 80s.

Yikes.

Yeah.

A little different.

A little different.

My parents, my dad would tell me stories of just being in certain areas and getting into fights because he was with a white woman.

So growing up a biracial kid, the first...

eight years of my life, I didn't know any different because I was around a lot of kids that were either like me or black, Mexican, Asian, whatever it was.

And then we moved to Sacramento at about 1989.

And my parents were both functioning drug users.

You know, we never went without, but I knew, and again, growing up in the 80s, I just saw a lot.

We had the house that everyone hung out at.

So I just saw a lot growing up,

but the oldest of three.

And moving at the end of the 80s up to Sacramento, it was kind of a culture shock.

Although we found a neighborhood that was similar to my neighborhood, my parents started putting me in predominantly white schools.

And although I'm half Italian, I was never really around white kids.

And I was always a big old old outcast.

Had to fight for friends, fight for the opportunity for sports, faced a ton of racism.

But I really think it started shaping me at an early age of just, okay, this is, this is a cold world now.

Like I, you know, I had a little bubble my first nine years, but I'm in this real world now where people drudge you based in that, you know, I would go home crying at times at eight or nine years old.

Like, why won't the kids let me play?

And obviously my mom would console me and hug me and love me.

My dad's like, no, fight them.

And I'm like, oh, you're giving me a pass to fight.

So, you know, at eight or nine years old, I started fighting for that respect and fighting for racism.

And I didn't really understand why, but it just was what it was.

So, you know, long story short, I gained a lot of acceptance.

And once they accepted me, I was an athlete that played four sports, football, basketball, baseball, and track, and really made a lot of lifelong friends that I still have to this day.

But I would say the one thing that shaped my entire childhood, literally right up until I went to UCLA, was just the racism.

My senior year of high school in Sacramento, kid was messing with my sister, calling her racial slurs, and I did what a big brother is supposed to do.

I protected her.

And school didn't believe me.

They thought I was some kind of on some bully stuff.

I get to spend it for a week and the school is nearly is vandalized by the KKK.

burned down bathrooms, mannequins with die barns, nigger here.

I mean, there's still swastikas engraved in that.

I've been out of high school for almost 30 years now.

So it was just really kind of,

again, I don't look at it as like poor me.

It was just kind of what shaped me and what gave me a voice before I even had a voice, before I had a platform to share my voice.

And that's why I'm so outspoken to this day on racism and politics and policy and police brutality, because I've just seen a lot as a young child that I knew that, okay, if I'm ever blessed enough to have my own platform, I need to speak up for all the people that don't have an opportunity to speak.

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Have you guys, do you guys go back to your homes, your neighborhoods?

Have you spent some time back there reinvesting my family's still there uh i did i opened this i tried to open a school there one time but as of today

i go home see family but i lost a lot of siblings in the last couple years so i just it brings back memories so i just try to stay away from home i get back to sacramento i mean i'm very interested in policy so i've been up to the capitol and helped pass uh police brutality bills and and and and helping kevin johnson was a former nba player who was the mayor of sacramento who kind of inspired me to think about possibly you know i I gave myself, I think at 31 or 32, when I was still in the NBA, I was like, by 50, I'm going to be the mayor of my hometown.

So I'm 45 now, so I don't know.

But I've been doing a lot of grassroots stuff back there with, you know, equal opportunity, cannabis stuff, and again, walking the state capitals and doing that kind of stuff.

So not directly in my neighborhood, but just more kind of giving back to the city and planting those seeds in case I do decide to go back one day and, you know, do something.

Do you think you might get into

politics?

I could.

I mean, I love politics.

It's something that

something that I really found fascinating.

At first, what, what interested me in politics, it wasn't so much the policies.

It was more, I just saw Kevin Johnson revitalize his neighborhood.

He came from one of the worst neighborhoods in Sacramento, and he kind of turned it upside down in a good way and provided a lot of job opportunities and just opportunity for people.

So that's what inspired me.

I have a six-year-old and 11-month-old to go with my six-year-old twins.

So daddy duty is always first and foremost.

Absolutely.

And politics suck the life out of that.

Right.

So when if it ever presents presents itself, once my boys are old enough and really kind of set, you know, something I might take a look at.

Do you consider yourselves outliers in your,

I don't even want to say your industry, but in the peer group of athletic men?

And I'll say that because I found that, you know,

it was always very easy when we would reach out because we would always reach out to top athletes, to top entertainers,

WNBA women always signed up when we all voted you know from college on it was always hard to get the brothers to

you know to focus

um i'm just wondering why what what what what are we missing you know in sports where women athletes are ready to you know go go haul

hard i want him to answer first because i think he's come a long way but he has and and you know this is a very interesting question because I was someone who dove in once I started learning about it, but he was someone on the other side.

He'd only seen, and I'll let him speak for himself, he'd only seen the bad side of stuff.

So what is my vote or what is my voice going to do?

And especially, you know, with, you know, George Flo is...

my close friend, like my twin.

So seeing that whole situation, you know, seeing both sides of it with people that are there for the right reasons and people that are not, you know,

it'll rub you the wrong way because you're dealing with a situation where this is somebody that you love that passed.

Yeah.

But now you're using this for a political gainer.

So I've seen both sides.

So for me, I actually start asking them questions because there's a lot I don't understand and don't know.

I kind of leave them my heart.

Yeah.

You know, and I'm not big on hope dealing.

If you want to do something for somebody, do it.

If you know what they need, do it.

That's just how I look at it.

So, and I know politics is not that clear-cut.

So I...

I'm open now to listen to him and to learn more about politics because, you know, I understand how it affects us

from the George Floyd situation.

So I'm always been one of the person, I don't know everything, and I've been willing to learn, but that situation with me,

not sleeping some nights, seeing how people really hate other races, like

I've never experienced that and been in the middle of it in my life.

So to see that, it opened my mind to a lot of things.

So I'm willing to understand people and ask questions.

I don't think if I would have went through that situation and seen all the pain and people hurt and being in 29 states on my own, dying, giving this to neighborhoods that I'm not from and to see how much we need stuff.

I'm open to learning any and everything involving politics now.

So I credit that to him and I credit that to the situations that I'm able to experience.

And I just think this is a marathon and not a sprint.

And you guys know that.

And I think the reason why I jumped in and obviously that we knew that there was going to be a ton of people who were voiceless, but then also becoming a father.

You know, you always want the best for your kids.

And at one point, I'm not going to be here to guide them and do everything.

So I wanted to try to be a part of something and understanding the power of our platforms.

I mean, we have athletes low-key

run

every aspect, whether it be fashion, you know, our opinions are heavy.

We got not necessarily arguments, but definitely disagreements because I'm just like, you know, I feel like what he just said, I was just like, there's so many people that feel like you.

So if you would come out and explain that, I think people will kind of, okay, I get why you don't.

But now that he's willing to listen, I think it's huge.

So we never disagree.

We disagree for about a good week.

Yeah.

And I get mad.

So it was a healthy conversation.

I would be checking on him just understanding, you know, we was going through with the George Floyd stuff and just understanding to be able to embrace the opportunity.

And, you know, being a leader on the basketball court is one thing, but, you know, this guy led the biggest protest the world's ever seen.

You know what I mean?

So to understand and be able to galvanize that and carry that momentum to the next level.

What it was is I'm always, I've always been a team guy.

You know, you talk about principles you learn in AAU that you don't learn anymore.

You learn, I think if it's taught the right way, you learn so much stuff from team sports.

So So I'm always trying to bring people in and understand that, you know, the fist is stronger than the finger.

The most important thing on the court for us at the time is to be able to be focused because no matter how crazy the world is, we're paid a lot of money to do our jobs.

And there's no excuse whether your mom dies, your kid's sick, you know,

none of that matters when you're on the basketball court, you know?

So again, that's why I respect.

I may not like, but I respect everyone's decision whether they want to use their platform or not because it is, it's a lot, you know what I mean?

And I even feel today not playing, I'm just like, every day I look on social media, like, this stuff is heavy.

You know, I think

growing up, we become numb to so, so much stuff.

So like, you know, we see family members can't afford medicine and die.

We see friends accidental murders and stuff so much growing up.

So when you get to the point where you're having success and you're able to change your family lives, like you kind of come numb to the stuff that you grew up seeing.

And that's not right.

You know what I'm saying?

You got to go back and try to help, you know, somebody else so they won't go through the same situations you've been through growing up.

So, you know,

a lot of kids don't see it because a lot of these kids is in the NBA.

They didn't struggle.

You know, a lot of them didn't struggle.

So they don't know what it's like.

And that's new now, right?

Yeah, that's a new way.

That's a new way.

A lot of kids grew up.

I grew up on food stamps and drugs and violence.

Like my kids grew up behind private, behind gates in private schools.

You know what I mean?

So these kids don't have,

I don't think a lot of them really know their why, you know, because everything has been, these kids now are getting more money in high school and college than some guys are getting in the NBA.

So it's just like, where's the grind?

We had to grind to get to a certain level or grind to get a certain amount of money.

And now thanks to it, because we've always talked about athletes should be paid, but these kids are getting paid a lot earlier and they're getting a lot of money.

So where does that, where's their mindset at?

What is their, again, what is their why?

So

it's just a different time now.

And I'm happy for all these kids because we busted our asses to make sure this is the way they got to grow up.

You know what I mean?

Again, to his point, we don't want our kids.

I don't want the kids, my kids to struggle with the racism and the food stamps and living with family and family them with us.

Like I I worked my butt off so they didn't have to do that.

But at the same time, how do you instill those qualities in your kids to understand that, hey, this is not the, you know, we're blessed.

This is no, we're not the richest family, but we're comfortable enough to know that the rest of the world may not see this or live like this.

That's why I give him credit.

Like, he's done a great job of changing the trajectory of his kids' life, but you wouldn't know.

You know, they're very down to earth.

They're very humble.

They're good boys.

So they don't carry themselves like we've been living a great life.

They're very humble.

And when you're a parent that can come from the struggle and change the life, but also instill that into the kids I think that'd be the best ones to have the best in both worlds because you're gonna deal with some stuff in life that you don't have the blueprint for and you're gonna have to figure it out, you know on the fly So I mean that's just light, but I like the fact that he what he said because you want to change your kids life, but you still want those to have the morals that we grew up with we're saying yes, ma'am, open doors a lot of kids don't do those little things no more holding doors for the elders and stuff like that.

So if you can instill those those morals into your kids, but also understand they're still blessed, I think that'll be the best kids.

How do you do that?

How are you all doing that?

I think parenting, I think when we grew up and I'm 45,

it was a dictatorship.

I mean, what my parents said went, period.

You know what I mean?

And if you talk back, you were going to meet the consequences.

I think now it has to be, we have to meet in the middle.

I think it's more of a conversation now because of the internet and because they have access to so much stuff at a younger age and they're hearing different voices and different opinions and seeing stuff we may not know they're seeing at a certain age.

So So with me, particularly with my, my, my twins are 16 and I have a six-year-old and I have an 11-month-old.

So it was always for me,

leaving little breadcrumbs, knowing that I'm going to have to cross this bridge eventually.

And then it was just kind of leaving breadcrumbs with girlfriends and holding hands and hugging and then kissing.

And I was thankful.

And they're probably going to get mad at me, but when the boys were about to start having sex like that, I think we're close.

You know, can we?

And so

I knew I did something right to know that my sons felt comfortable enough.

And I was like, like, did you tell your mom?

They're like, no, we can't tell mom.

You know what I mean?

So they felt comfortable enough to come to me to ask something that I hid from my parents that I'm sure 90% of the kids would hide from their parents is, you know, we're about to step into a whole new space of girlfriends and sex and that kind of stuff.

So to answer your question, I just think it's more of bringing our old school morals and discipline and meeting them halfway, understanding what this generation and this culture is like.

Because the last thing you want to do, and I credit my kids a lot, especially being in this media space is being old and outdated in your ways because you get attacked for that these days.

And that kind of thinking doesn't elevate at all.

So finding that

old school discipline and morals and

understanding and meeting in with this new generation of just life is at the palm of their hands.

And you can do that way earlier than you think with kids.

You know, you can't use big words.

You can't use examples that don't make sense to them.

But if we sort of fully see children as people and not as our little mini-me's or people who are just here for our entertainment and our comfort, but as humans in the room who have real legitimate questions.

I mean, I always say our kids have a lot of questions because the only thing they have to do in life is watch us.

They ain't working.

They don't have worries.

They're watching.

Everything we do, everything we say.

Absolutely.

You know, and if we don't explain ourselves to them, if we think, oh, you're too young to understand, you know, you're automatically cutting, you're taking away their credit.

I think for me, watching my mom made me a great parent.

My dad stayed five minutes away from me.

He's gone now, but he never was around.

My mom worked from six in the morning.

You know, his graveyard shits.

Your mom go to work at six in the morning.

She get off at six in the evening.

You don't even see her when you get home from school.

So I've seen the dedication that she put, but she also never demeaned my father.

She never demeaned him in no type of way.

She never spoke bad of him.

So when I started having my own kids, you know, when I...

And you got a lot of them.

I got a lot of them.

Do you?

Do you many kids have you got?

16 girls.

17 daughter.

Okay.

I don't have no 17 kids.

Okay.

I got five girls of my own, one out of marriage, and I got two boys.

Matt,

Matt, you know how he is on the show.

I can't do it.

I'm on my best behavior, but every once in a while I got a pokemon over.

It wouldn't be him.

It'd be dumb.

It wouldn't be him.

But just learning from her and watching her do the things she did.

And

as I started having my kids, you know, it's a lot of situations where I could have responded out of emotion.

Imagine being at your child's game.

The mother poisoned him so much that all his teammates will come and talk to you, but your son ignores you.

So I'm leaving games crying because I don't know how to respond.

But seeing my mom not demeaning my daddy, get up every day and do what she had to do for us, that showed me, look, just continue to do your part.

It'll work out.

You work yourself out, you know?

And it eventually did.

But

I wouldn't have known that if I wouldn't have seen such a strong woman raising us and working hard for us every day.

Yeah.

Now, you guys, so both of your careers are kind of mirrored, right?

You had to really overcome obstacles to get to where you were.

Then you get to where you are and you got to overcome even more obstacles.

And I would be interested in hearing how are you helping your kids.

understand

those obstacles and then

overcoming their own.

Because like you said,

we all came up differently than the way we're raising our kids.

And

I hate being the old guy to say, back in the day,

you have to, though.

You have to, though, because they'll never have it as worse as we had.

And I think that's, that's the only thing.

Like, I tell my sons, your journey is going to be different from mine, but you won't have to work as hard as I have.

You have your own journey.

You have your own ups and downs.

Your own stuff you're going to go through.

But I've paved a way for you, a way for you where it can be easy.

You know the road.

I've the blueprint that basically playing basketball, if that's what you want to do.

So I've done everything, you know, the good and bad for you to know what not and what to do.

So I think that's a blessing to have because we didn't have that.

I never had an NBA player come talk to me as a kid and tell me you can make it or not to do this.

So just so I have the experience to give him, I think he's ahead of the curve already.

And I also think, too, from a different standpoint, and it's unfortunate, but it's the norm now.

It's just broken homes.

You know what I mean?

My

divorced my twins' mom when they were five years old, and we had to learn how to,

mom and

my dad's house this weekend, mom's house next week.

And how can we still

and how can we still bring a village together to let them know we love them and support them and our love will never waver?

Although your mom and I aren't together, our love for you, you guys are still the apple of both of our eyes.

If we're going to do anything, and then unfortunately, with my second situation, now I'm in a similar situation with my 11-month-old and my and my six-year-old now, where, you know, their mom and I split up.

So to me it's really a lot of mental a whole lot of we talk sports and we talk but but to me it's just making sure they're okay because again although it's the norm it's it's still tough on a child I mean I think the divorce rate for pressure athletes is like in the 70s you know what I mean so again unfortunately we fell into that statistic but at the same time you know understanding and

as the twin the it's it's night and day to the twins now the twins completely understand you know i get along with my ex and and her husband and and and again it's a village for them but it's new to my two youngest.

So trying to explain to my six-year-old, like, what is going on?

Obviously, the baby doesn't know any better, but to explain to my six-year-old that mommy and daddy don't live together no more, unfortunately, but you know, you're still, we're coming out, we're doing, we're still doing stuff as a family for birthdays, graduations, holidays.

We're going to still make it as comfortable as we can because there is no blueprint for broken families.

You just got to hope that, you know, you keep the kids first and that you can be cordial enough to make sure their childhood is still what it needs to be, although we're not together day to day anymore.

So, and I think, again,

that part of my story isn't unique.

I think it's very common.

And to be able to still put the kids first, no matter what you're going through with your ex-husband or ex-wife, I think is always the goal.

And it's not as easy as it sounds.

I mean,

I had some hard times with my twins, with my ex-wife, just trying to get on that page.

And thankfully, we're there now.

And again, you know, this newer situation with my younger ones has been easier with her her and i still communicate constantly and where we're putting the kids but i know my six-year-old you know sometimes has issues with it you know what i mean so just making sure that i'm loving on him and communicating with him more as now you're only six but i'm going to communicate with you as if you're older and because i think you understand what's going on so again there's no blueprint for this um but you know being a father is my greatest accomplishment and the thing I love absolute most on this earth.

So I got to pour, although the situations didn't work,

still pour everything I can into

You've been present from day one for all your kids, and that's where all fathers need to understand.

Just be present.

It ain't about money.

It ain't about time.

Be present.

Make your time.

Make your presence felt in your child life and match the mask out of it.

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How do you all manage the emotional presence for

your children as men?

I know, Matt, in an interview, I heard you say that you hadn't cried.

That's what we did.

I cried.

I probably cried a few years ago.

Have you cried yet?

I haven't.

I want to learn.

I don't know.

Yeah, Jason Wilson.

I was hoping we can get some off-the-camera time with him because he can live home today.

Yeah, he was special.

And I mean, that interview was so special because we didn't even go off any of the, it was just freestyle.

Once we had it, started having that real conversation.

And I felt vulnerable and I felt okay with it because I know me sharing my story, there's a ton of people that have similar journeys or have the same issues.

Why can't cry, I don't know.

I want to because I know it'll be a great cleansing.

But again, I've touched on the emotional, the emotional side and the emotional intelligence of kids.

And again, it's just conversating.

You know, one of my twins, this is supposed to be a big summer for him.

And he went to a top 100 camp and fractured his ankle.

So he had to watch the entire summer.

And it's just one, you know, you got a twin brother out there doing his thing.

And then the other twin is just like, and so one twin,

the school, they're starting to talk to one twin.

And then the other twin's like, what about, you know what I mean?

So just again, that.

emotional and letting them know we still got them and you still have plenty of time to show the world what you can do and this is you know this is going to build character and because there's again to jack's point i mean their journeys are different and and and kids run from the grind these days and they transfer and they're jumping all around.

So I was like, this is going to be, I was like, I promise you, you're going to be better.

Do your kids cry?

Do they feel

like they're definitely comfortable enough to, you know what I mean?

But again, they didn't, you know, for us growing up and, you know, it was probably similar like growing up in the age of crying showing a sign of weaknesses, huh?

What?

You know, and mental health is what?

Like mental health just started becoming a conversation maybe five or six years ago.

You know, if you cried, you were soft.

If you had issues, like, forget your issues, you know, and I was someone to the point where I made it through all the bad stuff I had to go through.

So, the mental health, like, what are you talking about?

Like, I'm not letting that hold me back.

And then, when I started getting counseling and realizing, like, hey, some of the stuff from your childhood is a reason why you're not empathetic because you need to be or sympathetic or you put up walls.

It's just like, okay, now I need to go.

You said, little Matt.

It made me laugh.

That's what my counselor says.

Like, you know, you got to tap in with little Matt and fix those things that, you know, my parents didn't know that they were doing it wrong, but that sometimes they were doing it wrong and it caused issues for me as an adult.

So again, being very very aware of the surroundings and the environment I put my kids in, considering that I'm into

unfortunately failed situations, but I have kids with kids in those situations.

So, how do you stay on top of it mentally and then from the loving side of it as well?

I mean, failure isn't a bad thing for you as long as you learn from it in their parents.

I mean, that's that's something that

Barack and I try to remember all the time.

It's like, you know, seeing the vulnerability, seeing the fear,

it kind of gives, I found them permission to have those same emotions.

Like we think we're being strong for our kids.

We think we're, you know, shielding them.

But, you know, when my girls perk up, it's when we talk about failure, right?

And to see two parents who have succeeded at a certain level, you know,

we have to make it a point.

right because they they weren't around when we were grinding struggling when he lost congressional

bid, when I failed the bar the first time, when we had an argument, or when, you know, they were too young for that.

So it becomes even more important for us to take them down those emotional paths because they, kids like ours, they have so much support, but they have so much pressure.

And it's not from the outside world.

It's internal.

You know, it's like,

my dad is so, so awesome.

awesome i don't want to disappoint them like they're having those little thoughts in their heads right and we have to be really really deliberate about breaking that stuff down for them giving them permission making failure like that's part of the journey from it so look look at us but also too i think you know When you're young, you think the road to success and whatever success that is for you is like this.

That's right.

You know, and it's the furthest thing from the truth.

But as you get older, you start to see like, hey, that failure or that mishap is going to help me get back on track but uh dig in that and that's why i said that earlier like protecting your kids too much to me is you're going to set them up once they're free and have to really fend for this world like if they haven't seen anything they're going to have a hard time finding who they are as adults we had to be so deliberate about that right because our girls had secret service agents until malia went to college which we were thrilled about in the teen years.

Brock was like, I'm going to get re-elected just so that my girls have secret service in the teen years.

You ain't sneaking off and doing nothing.

You ain't got to be off.

You don't want nobody sneaking and doing anything.

But at the same time, I had to give them enough rope to sneak, you know, because just like you, it's like, you got to learn what trouble is before you run into it.

You know, you got to have the baby trouble, the trouble of being at the wrong party at the wrong time.

You got to, you know, learn, you got to learn how to drive.

You got to get a ticket.

You got to get through an airport by yourself.

You got to get the trouble where the ramifications aren't big enough to ruin your life.

Because a lot of people don't get out and make it out of those situations.

And also, I wanted them to have some of those experiences when they were coming home to me.

Right.

So you can still talk through it and work through it.

So you guys have such deep wisdom when it comes to fatherhood.

How has that impacted your love lives?

What have you been doing?

Here you go, fellas.

You know, because there's a lot of, you know, that's a lot of.

With me, I'm Michelle.

I'm learning.

I'm learning daily.

So you didn't let me fill in that blank.

Yeah,

I'm learning, I'm learning daily.

And,

you know,

it's really within myself and understanding, because I think we get such a jaded point of view being professional athletes, however long you're a professional athlete.

And then for us to be professional athletes and then still jump right on big TV and still kind of keep, you know, we were both, I mean, he was a.

better scorer than me and accolades on scoring, but we were both somewhat role players, but we were able to transition into this media space and and somewhat be stars and kind of, you know, trendsetters in this space.

So I think as athletes, you have such a false sense of just reality at times and being able to look yourself in the mirror and like, hey, all this drama here and you want to point the finger at other people, you need to point it yourself first, you know, being able to look at the mirror and understand like where your faults were and what I could have did better.

Even if it wasn't all the way my fault, what could I have did better?

So really just a lot of reflection.

I'm at a real reflective point of my life right now, just kind of understanding, trying to build a better, better relationship with God, because I know all that stuff is going to help me be better in every field I'm in.

So, again, I'm currently single, and again, not necessarily looking for anything because I think right now more is just like I got to get little Matt all the way together, and that's going to help grown Matt be a better man, father, owner, friend, and business partner.

What if I tell you if you cried once, you'd find the goal of your life?

I can't wait to be there because it's going to help me too.

I need it.

I just, I need it, you know, when it'll find it, it'll come.

You're supposed to.

When your boys, it's going to come from your boys.

Because I would, you know, it's funny you said that.

I'm just thinking they'll be 17 and I only have another year and a half with them and they're gone.

When they're gone, it's just like might be the time.

So my gosh.

Go with them.

Take them dawn.

So we had one of those moments with Barack when we dropped Malia off because we still did because we tried to do all the normal stuff even as president.

You know, so she had to go a day earlier so that the motor presidential motor kid we could go on the campus

do the thing you know take her boxes up because i was like we are not farming that out you know she's living home right so i you know So we're up there, the roommate's parents got to come early.

And so we're doing all the college stuff.

I'm, you know, making her bed because whenever they went to camp or somewhere, I said, I'll make your bed once and I'll make it really neat and nice.

And that's it.

Got her room all set up.

And you could tell Barack was totally clueless.

He didn't know where to be.

We gave him a lamp from Ikea and said, put it together.

Here, you take this box, you put it together.

There was nothing to put together, but he was over there with his lamp for like two hours, you know.

And then came time, we took her to lunch at some restaurant.

And then we had to leave.

We had to get in this motorcade and leave the baby behind, you know, and to watch her standing at that restaurant

waving goodbye so i'm crying you know brock gets in the car you know we're driving back to the air force one in the motorcade you know we're a little quiet and i hear this

that was literally the sign and i had to look over and be like you know the agents are like sir are you okay and he's like

it's like just man just do it just cry let it go make it happen you know.

But it was like, you know, there was just a deep kind of, you know, leaving your kids in a place, you know, and saying that's it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I want to, I want to ride to

drop off the college or something.

I want to ride to drop off.

By the way, guys, Michelle's going to be joining us today.

So

it's like, I'm here.

I'm here.

I'll make you bed.

There you go.

While your father cries.

I'm looking forward to it.

Again,

I don't know what it is.

I just feel like, you know, I lost my mom.

That's how he and I became close.

I lost my mom in 2007

and I had to be the rock for the family.

You know, my dad was miserable.

My sorrow, you know, my dad was lost.

My sister was hurt.

My everyone wasn't, but I had to, like, I played a game the next day.

You know what I mean?

I've always kind of had to be like, no matter who it was, I had to be the rock for everyone else.

And it's just like, there's at times where I'm hurt, but it's just like, it won't.

I need to release it.

So I'm hoping.

Have you picked people that you can let go with?

I'm getting back to the question of relationships.

And Stephen, you haven't said a word.

I'm ready to answer it.

I just don't want to interrupt the quote.

Yeah, go ahead.

Well, with me, I just,

I've made a lot of mistakes.

I've always held myself accountable.

Yeah.

That's my biggest thing.

But one thing I've always did, I've always kept my heart in the right place.

And I've always lived my life to show God I deserve everything he blessed me with.

So I have a big heart.

So even when people do me bad or I was done bad in relationships, I've always did what I was supposed to do to make sure the other person, you know, was taken care of of, was right.

So I don't feel bad about any situation I've been in because I've always left that person better leaving me than when they came with me.

So

just experiencing me being accountable.

I held myself accountable for everything.

So I don't regret anything.

You know, I've done what I was supposed to do.

I've been a father.

I've been a friend.

I've been the guy when I was.

treated like crap and still stood up and provided for people when they didn't deserve it.

So

it's just being able to look yourself in the mirror, you know, good or bad.

I've been one of those guys I came up with, I said, I make love to pressure.

So

nothing will make me become a bad person, become a bad human being.

My heart is always in the right place.

So I think that's how I handle every situation.

Welcome back to IMO, everybody.

We're in October now, and boy, the air is changing.

The leaves are doing their thing, and the pace is starting to really pick up.

And I was just sitting here thinking about the holiday rush and it's coming.

And also I started thinking about how do you use this time of year to prepare your business for the holidays?

And what's the one thing you're doing now that will pay off later?

For me, that one thing is definitely making sure that I'm using Shopify.

I mean, look, the holiday season is busy enough.

You need to focus on your family, your friends, your hot cider, the things that actually matter.

You don't need to be wrestling with a bunch of different platforms just to sell your product.

That's where Shopify shines.

They take the guesswork out of starting a business.

Whether you've got a little side hustle or you're running a full-blown storefront, whether you're selling locally or globally.

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And you both are really powerful examples of building a life beyond a very long, prosperous, successful set of careers.

Talk about how, you know, you even,

you know, are able to wrap your heads around the next level of success without holding on too much to not being able to think, to do the thing that made you you.

You know, that's a whole mental challenge right there.

You know, we see it.

We see people not being able to walk away from their sport, not because they haven't achieved everything, but it almost feels like

you're scared.

You haven't haven't thought as much, as great as you are,

it is clear that you haven't thought about anything.

What's next?

You guys have managed that pretty doggone well.

I think for me,

I took pride in being a team player while I was playing.

So after basketball, you know, you never know what's going to happen or what's going to go.

But I think for me, being a solid guy, being a good friend to a lot of different people,

good things happen for you.

I had no idea what was going to happen after basketball, to be honest.

No idea.

But I think, like I said, my relationship with Matt and just and building, just having an opportunity of the podcast has taken us to spaces that I never even believed.

So for me, good things always happen to me because I wake up every day.

to show God I deserve what you, whatever that's coming in my life, I'm getting ready for it.

I'm not waiting till my blessing come.

I'm getting ready for it.

I live my life that way.

And he'll tell you, I'm the biggest protector out of all our friends.

I jump in front of everything for everybody.

I'm loyal to a fault.

But God continues to bless me because I love hard and I love my people hard.

So the only reason I'm in this position is because I'm a good teammate.

I have a great team around me.

I would never take credit for where I'm at in my life today and the success we have.

And I got a great team and a great group of people that we treat each other like family and we respect each other.

If you can't be a good teammate, if you can't

learn how to respect people and treat people how you want to be treated, you're not going to have any success, especially as a basketball player.

Because after basketball, they already come into you with expecting you to know everything and off your name.

Well, a lot of us don't know anything but basketball.

I don't know.

I could just, my, my journey's been

crazy fun

because, I mean, I think there was such a, not a misconception, because I think I have a reputation to earn, whether good or bad.

And I had a borderline reputation.

I was a habitual line stepper in the NBA, but I was also at the same time understanding that this isn't going to last forever.

I just look at myself as being so lucky that I played 14 years, got paid for 16 years to put a ball in a hoop.

That's a dream.

Like you want to call that a job?

To me, that's a dream.

And then now I'm getting paid great money to talk and inspire and motivate and educate and talk trash and have fun.

So to me, like, I don't feel like I've ever worked a day in my life.

You know what I mean?

I love hearing that.

And, you know, we have a question from our listener, but before we get to the question, I would love it if you would talk to our listeners about what's really good about the NBA, but also what's really hard about it.

Because I don't think I don't hear people talking about it.

Anything.

It sounds like a wonderful thing.

It always sounds like a wonderful thing, but having now worked in the front office of a couple of teams, I've seen behind the curtain.

And I would love for you to share your thoughts on what's really, really hard about it.

I'll just say two things.

Two, I mean, one, everybody don't know how to be a professional.

You have to learn.

It's not just about basketball once you get there.

I was blessed to have David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Steve Kerr, Steve Smith, all those guys

in my early years because I learned how to be a professional.

I watched these guys.

A lot of these kids have no, there's no vets in the game.

So they're not taught how to be a professional.

For me, that's really it.

That's being a professional.

And the politics side.

On and off the court.

Yeah.

You got to learn how to do it with the politics.

It's a lot of times I should have made the all-star games i didn't make it because of a guy who wasn't in trouble he wasn't better than me but he just wasn't in trouble and he made it so you got to learn how to deal with the politics too in the nba that's a big part of it just know first and foremost it's a business and you're very lucky to be a part of that business and you got to keep the first thing first and i give professional athletes today a lot of credit and not that we're i mean i'm eight years removed but in those eight years the game has changed so much and the world has changed so much like there's so much outside distraction now on the media point of it on top of the money these kids are getting, I mean, these kids are getting, they're making 80 million dollars a year just from this, on top of all the, you know what I mean?

So it's just like, it's kind of just understanding, keeping the first thing first, knowing that it's a business, knowing that, you know, the average NBA career is three and a half years.

You know what I mean?

So what's going to set you apart?

And I said earlier, when you get there, it's 10% physical and 90% mental.

So how are you carrying yourself and understanding now from the second we had, I couldn't imagine if I had cameras on me at UCLA, I probably wouldn't be here or even early in my career because we were just off the chain.

We didn't know until we got around vets.

And now the game, the NBA, desperately, and I'm sure a lot of sports, it's getting younger and younger.

So it's not the blind, but almost the malign leading the blind.

When we came in the league, there was 38, 39, 40-year-olds smoking cigarettes in the locker room, but just, hey,

let's go buy your first sets of suits.

You know, let's stay away from them, those women.

You know, let's not waste your money on.

There's none of that in the game anymore.

So, I mean, what there's so much given

a lot is expected.

And just, you got to keep the first thing first in today's because there's just so many people with the money and with the exposure now of athletes.

There's so many different distractions and so many people grabbing at you.

But when it's gone, it's gone.

You know, when it's gone, it's gone.

So understand it and to enjoy the journey.

I know as athletes, we're always the next guy, we lost last night or I had 30 last night, but tonight we play.

Enjoy the ride because the ride goes so fast.

And if you don't sit back and appreciate the ups and downs and goods and bads while you're there, when you're done, you're going to be like, damn, I wish I would have.

I wish I I would have.

I wish I would have.

So

the business, keep the first thing first and enjoy the journey.

So we've got a question from Tony in New York.

What's up, Tony?

I grew up with humble beginnings in Baltimore, and today I find myself in a very different place.

I'm successful, married, and raising a mixed-race child in suburbia.

As a black father, I carry the weight of my own lived experiences.

I often find myself wrestling with how much of that to pass on to my son.

Recently, his daycare flagged him for aggressive behavior and it hit a nerve.

I want to raise a strong, confident black boy who understands his value, but I also know that the world doesn't always give our children the benefit of the doubt.

I feel a tension between wanting to protect him by teaching him restraint and caution and not wanting to suppress his autonomy or spirit in the

So, my question is: How do you raise a child in a new reality without letting your old reality shape too much of their world?

Like, how do you guide them with wisdom born of struggle without projecting your fears that may no longer serve them?

Ooh, Tony.

Great question, Tony.

And I can tell by the way that

that's my favorite group.

I can tell by the way that the question, he wrote the question, that he is very aware of just what's going on in the world.

Both sides.

He's on of both sides.

And I would say it, it being a biracial man,

it was different for me because it was, wasn't the norm growing up.

But I think now, thankfully,

the world is becoming more of a melting pot and it's more accepted.

And I had the same thoughts as the twins were coming up.

Like my

people tried to, KKA tried to kill me.

I mean, I had to move and all this kind of stuff.

So do I pour that trauma into my my kids?

Do I not make them aware of it?

Do they learn about it?

So luckily, we live in a society today where I feel like, you know,

what is it,

interracial or whatever the situation, biracial children are more, more of the norm.

So I just think it's a fine line.

And I don't think this is a blatant answer.

I think it's a situation by situation.

circumstance where you have to, you know, you take individual situations and break them down because you're going to come across racism at some point.

And you don't want to throw so much fear in them that they start hating other people, but you also want them to be naive and understand like, hey, there are some people that were grown and raised a different way that we don't necessarily agree with and they were taught hate instead of love and keep them in their place.

But I'm also a firm believer like.

Don't put your hands on me or don't put your hands on my children.

You know what I mean?

I'm for peace until you cross that line.

So you always have to be able to protect yourself and defend yourself.

But hopefully, you know, you teach them the right way to have a broader understanding of what this crazy world is about.

And they, you know, they approach those situations with, you know, confidence first and foremost and an understanding.

I started something doing a George Floyd time,

something that says love for all, who have love for all.

And I always put every hand, every color emoji.

But at the same time, you want to let you, especially a black young man, you want to let him know who he is, but also let him know that you don't need to demean the next race.

to make yourself look better.

I think that's what a lot of races feel like.

In order to make yourself look better, you have to demean the next.

And that's that's something we don't do on our show.

A lot of shows do that.

Find something to talk about, demean somebody, and try to go viral.

We've never done that.

So I've always taught that to my kids.

Like,

know who you are first, because once you know who you are, can't nobody knock you off your rock.

Or can't nobody make you say something or do something that you'll regret because you know who you are first.

Second, understand that.

People are going to say things, but you never have to demean someone to make yourself look better.

I think the world is real caught up on that.

I'm going to make him look bad so I can look.

I've always thought it to my kids.

So I've been grateful to that my kids been growing up a lot around the different races.

So they understand.

I grew up a lot around the Mexicans.

My best friend is Jewish.

So Josh Pastor was a coach of UNLV.

So I think just the way I live my life, that kind of knocked that stigma off my kids.

But at the same time, I let them know who they are.

Cause when you are a young black man, things, whether you understand it or not, you're going to be treated differently.

You're going to be looked at differently.

And a lot of it is going to be harder for you than the next.

That's just how it is as a black man.

That's just how it is.

And once they understand that, then they'll be willing to embrace it and don't look at it as starting behind.

That's a great point.

I mean, so I've got a son who's fully black, older, 33, and then I've got two younger sons who are biracial.

And

I've always thought, and even with my daughter, who's black,

talking about communicating about race early, helping them understand that it's just life's not fair right now.

Wasn't fair when we were coming up, and it's not fair now.

It's better now, but it's not fair.

You're going to be looked upon a certain way because you're black.

And

I think having that discussion early helped them prepare for things as they come in.

And we just try and talk about it.

We try and talk our way through.

And to Tony's point, I was always worried about my kids being mislabeled as over aggressive because they were black.

And so

we talked about when you're in a, when you go into a situation, you have to be aware that some people may think you're over aggressive.

And

that doesn't mean change who you are,

but just be aware.

Read the room.

Read the room.

That's a great moment.

Read the room.

Read the room because

there are going to be times because

my mom always talked about this.

She always feels like she made me too non-aggressive and made her over-aggressive.

And that was the times back in the 60s and 70s.

So I don't want them to lose their ability to have a little edge about them.

But I also want them to be aware that if you show that edge, you're going to get profiled.

I just feel, again, I feel like it's an unfortunate situation, but black and brown parents have different conversations than the rest of the world.

Because again, as I mentioned, like race is just a part of, hey, this is how you're supposed to, this is just another hurdle we're going to have to hop.

You know, this is not a conversation that, you know, unfortunately, white families have to worry about.

police discrimination and people looking at them a certain way because just not but so again that's why when i initially asked the question you take this in stride as well this is just another teaching point and and and again it's something that they're going to face at some point and just make sure they're prepared and ready for it one other thing I would just add to Tony is,

and I, how old was his son or is his son, did he say?

But when it comes to school,

because that's something we've talked about, you know, schools are, you know,

the curriculum hasn't been thoughtful in about 100,000 years, right?

I mean, it's not keeping up with the modern child and it's definitely not thinking about who boys are.

So a lot of the curriculum, how the day is structured, doesn't work for boys.

Boys need to be moving, thinking, girls are different, right?

But everybody is taught the same.

And I'm sure that aggressive label at school, which you hear that a lot among, you know, schools labeling black kids, kids of color early, that is a dilemma because once you get tracked or marked,

then, you know, So I would say to Tony, then that means that as a parent, you got to be involved in school, you know, because you can talk to your kid till they're blue in the face.

That's important, but it is important, especially if you have a black son, for them to know you and to know that I will come up there.

You know, I will come up there in a proper way, but this black boy, mixed boy, has someone looking out for him.

And I think that that becomes even more critical for boys, for mixed race boys, for black boys, that parents, you can love your son, but especially when they're young and they

haven't developed their own voice, you know, that's what being an involved parent is, you know, and for a father to be involved, big deal, you know, that's a big deal.

So that may mean go to some of these field trips, you know, go to a parent, make sure you go to all, because Barack went to every parent-teacher conference.

their entire life in the White House, you name it.

He was going to go

motorcade, motorcycles, swap me in we were there everybody we were there shutting down mass avenue getting to this that means a lot

by the way that means a lot it means a lot it meant a lot to the girls but it said something to the school you know it's like it's not just me but their father knows what's going on um so

you guys are engaged fathers which is beautiful um being engaged in that school structure just knowing you know that doesn't mean you want to have to go up to the school and tear stuff up and it's just like but i will if i need to i will and you can and that's implied in my presence yep you know one thing i will say let me say this right i know exactly what you mean my my daughter's going to sixth grade but since she's been in kindergarten i've been going to a school i put her so instagram

dona daddy call me donut

but i'm not going there to Tell somebody else.

But I'm letting you know this child here is love.

That's right.

And my daddy's going to be too.

You know what I mean?

And I also, too, want one more thing.

I think I'm okay with aggression because I think you can learn to tone that back, but I would rather be aggressive than have my child be walked over and disrespected and made fun of.

Like I said, we can, we can tune like aggressiveness in sports, we can tune that back, but if you don't have that in you, that's hard to teach.

So I'm okay with aggressiveness as long as it's following the rules because that's something you can, you know, you can you can form and structure and pull back if you need to.

But on the flip side, if you're someone that just gets walked over, that's going to make me go crazy.

Yeah, yeah.

And

that makes me want to address something part of the question that tony said that he was um

he was worried that his he was imposing his lived experience on the kid and what i would say to tony embrace your lived experience because that's going to help little tony later in life because it is

It is powerful to know that your parent has gone through something similar and made it out.

Experience is the best teaching.

It's absolutely, absolutely.

And so, good question.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Thank you for that.

Should love to you and your son, man.

Yeah, and the fact that he's asking the question means he's involved.

He cares, yeah.

You know, and we meet, we need more fathers like that.

And I think that's, you know, you guys are modeling that.

I mean, I love the way you talk about your kids, how you are, you know, you're not bystander parents, that you are actively thinking thinking about how to raise them.

And that is not just, that's not the mother's job exclusively.

You know, it really matters.

And you've seen it in a broken home or not divorced or whatever.

Kids can understand that.

It didn't work out, right?

Things don't work out.

People don't get along sometimes, you know, but that doesn't mean that you're not present.

That doesn't mean you get scared away.

And money shouldn't dictate that.

You know, kids do not care about how much money you have.

I I don't care if you are unemployed, whether you were in jail once before, whether you were on crack at some point.

Kids still want to see you in their lives, just trying,

you know, and I think that you guys model that in the way that you are actively trying to think about the words you say, how you show up in your kids' lives.

And I think it's important for our listeners to

see that up close from some all-the-smoke athletes,

those who could tell like it is, still be engaged in sports, still know a lot about a lot of things, and still show up as good men and good fathers.

So, thank you.

Thank you.

We are grateful.

You're doing what you're doing, guys.

Thank you.

Yeah.

You got a couple fans.

Thank you for taking the time.

I'm honored to be here.

Yeah.

Michelle, my bell, and Craig.

Oh my gosh, first of all, what an honor.

Getting grown is super excited to be connecting with the IMO podcast, featuring the legendary one and only our faith and my play cousin, Michelle Levar Robinson, Obama, and her brother, Craig.

Everybody's who's Black's cousin, Craig Robinson, because I feel like everybody black has a cousin named Craig.

I certainly do.

Period.

We're here to ask you all two questions that we think would be very beneficial to our audience and to yours.

You want to give them a little context, sis?

Sure.

So a few years back when we first started our podcast, I believe it was like 2018, we had an episode entitled Letters to Our 20 20-year-old selves, and it was a hit.

People really enjoyed the opportunity to reflect and think back on the advice we wish somebody would have told us.

So we thought it would be cool to pose the question to you guys, but we're going to do it with a bit of a twist.

We want to know what advice you would give to your 30-year-old self.

Hey, Kia and Jade, oh, thanks for the question.

We get this question a lot.

What is one piece of advice that I give my 30-year-old self?

I'd be like, the main thing would be, it's okay, girl, you can get a whole lot wrong.

You know, do not be afraid of having the right answer, because guess what, y'all?

There isn't a right answer to most things.

I mean, there are right answers to the basics.

You know, yes, it is important not to be a liar.

Yes, it is important to be loyal.

It's important to work hard.

It's important to lead a life with compassion and empathy.

I mean, I think that there are some big,

overarching,

moral-based kind of things that

if you don't practice that stuff, I think it

doesn't serve you.

But when it comes to just basic stuff, you know, like what your major is in college, whether you're on the perfect career track, whether the person you are dating right now is the right person.

All of that, you know,

there's room for error in a lot of life's challenges that we face.

And I tell my girls to be easier on yourselves as you enter this phase of life.

You are just getting started.

There are many, many chapters and you're going to learn a lot from your failures and

your challenges.

Just don't back down from them, embrace them and then grow from them.

You try to make mistakes a couple of times, but try try not to repeat the same patterns.

Those would be some of the pieces of advice that I would give myself.

And I'm still trying to live by those

pieces of advice right now.

Now, what does my big brother have to say, who is far older and wiser than me?

First of all, Kia and Jay, thanks for the question and congrats on all your success and really happy for you.

And if I had to go back in time and talk to my 30-year-old self, I would be

first and foremost happy to be able to go back in time and be my 30-year-old self.

That would be fantastic.

But what I would tell my 30-year-old self is a couple of things.

First, figure out what you love doing

rather than how much you want to earn.

Because if you can figure out something you love doing and find that, the early you find that out, the better it'll be for you emotionally and psychologically

as well as financially and then the second thing which is sort of connected to the first thing is

do not

and i repeat do not be afraid to try new things as you get older because we are programmed as humans as we get older to get more conservative and to figure out all right we need to figure out what we're doing what we want to do and then stick with that and and if i was talking to my 30 year old self i would say try as many things as you can you will if if you are a hard worker and a successful person you'll be able to bounce back from any kind of uh change or any kind of of uh altering that comes in your life and i'm happy to say i've learned that it took me a while it took me being a little bit older to learn that but if I could have done that earlier,

I think

it would have benefited me greatly.

So really appreciate the question and keep up the good work.

Michelle, this is why you are who you are, Craig.

This is why you are who you are because I don't have anything figured out.

What a gift, right?

To know like that, it just takes the pressure off.

Yeah.

Because there is that constant expectation that you're finished and settled.

And that's just not.

not i'm okay i don't have to be a fully formed project no i'm more like a loft you know what i mean with concrete floors

slightly in construction lots lots of possibilities exactly the room can go in any direction but thank you all for that and since my sis jade is turning the big four this year and since i'm already in my 40s yes pow pow pow it's a bit of a different era for the girls and our listening audience includes those girlies too so we also would love if you can think, what advice would you give your 40-year-old self?

What are some of the things that you wish you would have, somebody would have told you as you were on the precipice of your 40s as well?

My mother said it was the best time of her life, but I'd like to know what Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson have to say about that.

Absolutely.

If I had one piece of advice to give my 40-year-old self, it would be

don't stop working out

because it's hard to get going again once you stop.

So, no matter what's going on with life, keep the workout routine going.

I would say maintain your connections with friends.

In your 40s, you're probably at the time of life where you're starting a family, maybe you're in the peak of your career, and it's easy to let relationships with friends and family slip.

So prioritize that.

Beautiful.

Listen, again, major key, spot on advice.

Advice, okay.

The best of advice.

And it's so true, especially for women, strength training as you age becomes more and more critical.

We heard Dr.

Wendy say that when we were in Chicago,

and it's something that's very true and current: like you can't forget to move your body, you can't forget to build your muscles, and also prioritizing your friendships.

I love that you said that, Michelle, because you already know how we feel about friendship and sisterhood.

Chosen family.

Friendships are their chosen family.

This is sacred.

So I really appreciate that.

That's something that I would have given.

So to receive it from somebody, somebody's as great as we did.

I'm just, I'm over the moon.

Thank you all so much.

What a flex.

Love it for us.

Listen to Getting Grown, wherever you get your podcasts.