Justice is Blinds

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Justice is blinds.

Alex brings the case against his wife, Kim.

Alex and Kim recently bought a house in Maine.

Kim wants to install blinds in the windows.

Alex is opposed.

He loves waking up to the sunlight.

Alex says blinds will cast a shadow on his sunny mornings.

But Kim doesn't want any nosy Mainers looking in her windows at night.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Dad still lives in the town where he was born.

Says he's got nowhere else to go.

He's been working the same job since 62, knows everything he'll ever need to know.

Every day at five, he'd come home from the plant, pull up and honk his horn.

He'd go into the kitchen, come out with a beer, and unbutton his uniform.

And I never understood the expression on his face but finally it's making sense to me because when grandpa passed away i inherited his clothes and a job down at the factory living second rate working second shift and somehow 20 years went by i ended up like dad in the town where i was born and i'll never question why bailiff jesse thorne please swear the litigants in Alex Kim, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

Yes, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that we've been struggling with the flat, cold, outdoor light that comes through his blindless office window?

Yes.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Alex and Kim, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment.

Now, look, no one's going to know what you're talking about, Jesse, unless they're watching on the YouTube.

I'm just going to interrupt myself there.

If you're watching on the YouTube, you'll know sometimes I get washed out by the light.

And if you're watching on the YouTube right now, you'll see I am in Brooklyn, New York, sweating like bananas.

This time next week, though, I'll be in my summer chambers up there at weru.org in Maine, where it will be cooler and air-conditioned.

Looking forward to it.

I'm thinking about Maine.

That's what we're talking about today with Alex and Kim, who may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

I would say Martin

Heidegger's

philosophy of dwelling.

I did not see that coming.

I know.

When you said Martin, I figured you were talking about the 90s Foxy Com Martin.

Nope.

It's a philosophy.

Look, I studied Heidegger a long time ago.

See?

Around the same time I was studying Martin.

Alex, it's your turn to guess.

What's your guess?

I have no idea.

So I'm going to go with my pre-guessed guess, which is, I'm going to say it is a quote from the architect Philip Johnson, the creator of the Glass House in Connecticut.

Connecticut?

We're not talking about Connecticut today.

I know, but it is a glass house.

I like that idea.

All right.

All guesses are wrong.

I was, in fact,

quoting the entirety of the lyrics of a song called In the Town Where I Was Born by the Pinkerton Thugs.

Kim Alex, you must know the Pinkerton Thugs.

Big fans?

I don't.

Well, they're only Kennebunk Maine's most famous anarchist punk band.

Sweet.

Founded in 1993 by Kennebunk native Micah Smaldone on guitar and vocals, also Paul Russo and James Witten on drums and bass.

Specifically, that song In the Town Where I Was Born is the most mournful and intimate song on their otherwise wildly and racingly political and angry album, Pain and the Pinkerton Thugs.

Only one of their two albums that came out in that lineup of the band in 1997.

And so you got it wrong.

So we're going to hear the case.

Before we get started, you have this home, Alex, in Maine that you've had for about a year.

What's the anarchist punk scene like there now?

Still vibrant?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

No, I mean, the reason why we,

so we have a house in Arlington, and we've been going

Arlington, Connecticut.

Arlington, Massachusetts.

Is it a glass house that you're throwing a a stone in right now?

Very, very opposite of a glass house.

Arlington, Texas?

Do the Texas Rangers play there?

There are a lot of Arlingtons.

And we've been, ever since we moved here from Ohio out of college, we've been going up north to Maine.

We tried going south to Cape Cod, just so crazy, lots of tourists.

So we started going up north to Maine, and we just fell in love with it.

And

about a year ago,

you're going up north to Maine, but you're in Kennebunk, Maine.

No, we're aware that people in Maine call that northern Massachusetts.

Yeah, fair enough.

Fair enough.

Whatever.

Yes, just crossing into Maine, but it's a place we really fell in love with.

And about a year ago, we bought a fixer-upper.

I really like carpentry, working on houses, all that kind of stuff.

So

we wanted something that we could work on over time and just kind of turn it into something we, you know, can grow with our family.

So, yeah, it's it's a different vibe than

Boston.

And so that's kind of the whole idea is we just wanted to,

and it's only an hour and a half away.

So like we can get there at a reasonable time, but you feel like you're in a completely different place.

The first place I ever visited in Maine was Kennebunk Port.

Yes.

Yes.

As a guest of George Herbert Walker Bush.

That's right.

Yes.

That's right.

I visited the Bush compound as a nine-year-old.

No, my, my, you know, I grew up in the, in the Boston area as well, and I was one of those Massachusetts holes, as they're called, who gets, who goes up to southern Maine to get away from at all and go from one very dense place to another very dense place.

In this case, very dense with

fried clams and little wooden statues of fishermen.

And we would stay at the Colony Hotel.

You ever go there in Kennebunkport?

It's still there.

Oh.

Oh, we've talked about it so many times, but no, we're also very cheap.

So,

I know, I mean, you know, whatever.

It's the Colony Hotel is a grand old hotel.

I think the main hotel still doesn't have any air conditioning.

And I think they have annex buildings that do.

And when I was a little kid, we went there a couple of times and it was very old school.

We were seated at the same table for dinner every night.

And we had to wear jackets.

Yeah.

It was like we were on the Queen Mary or something,

and there was no television in the rooms.

There was a television room off the lobby.

And anyway, but Kennebunk Port is different from Kennebunk.

Kennebunk is a little bit more inland.

Exactly.

What's it like over there?

I don't think I've ever been.

I would say it's more long-term residence, you know, year-round residence.

It's a fabulous place.

There's always something going on.

And Kennebunk.

It seems something like Maine to me.

Right?

Little events.

I'm talking about the little civilian and not, you know, more small town people.

You could say Kenny Bunkport is the more touristy, kind of right near the coast, whereas Kenny Bunk is inland and, you know, where all the locals tend to live and less touristy.

And you get some fresh bananas around there.

You ever go to the

I've never seen them.

I've never seen them there.

I'm referring, of course, to Jonathan Niederer, the fresh banana man of the northbound Kennedbunk Service Plaza.

Or was it southbound, actually?

I apologize, jonathan if you're listening we haven't been in touch for some time and he hasn't been flogging bananas there for years it's not his fault we never go to the southbound we always go to the northbound right you know it's not it's not i think they just stop selling bananas there

or maybe you self-check out your bananas now i don't know

um but anyway there you are in kennebunk um and uh and you've had this house for a year And the issue here is that

the windows don't have any blinds or curtains for the most part.

Is that right, Kim?

That is correct.

There's some curtains.

They were there when we bought the house, but they have been taken down for renovation and we need them back.

Well, you want them back, Kim, but Alex, you do not.

Is that right?

That's the crux of this case.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Or at least the ostensible crux until I dig apart your very souls and find the emotional crux.

Wow.

You said you're from Ohio, but you actually sound like you're from New England.

There's no way you're going to see into my soul.

Yeah.

Very few people are.

My emotions are well locked up.

Kim, you want to put shades on these windows because the sunlight will kill you, right?

Of course.

No.

I would like the blinds to go back up because it's privacy to have that option to close up the house, be able to walk around the house, not feel like someone's, you know, staring at you.

Walk around the house in the nude.

I hear most people who vacation in Kennebunk are nudists.

Is that true?

Maybe we need the blinds to shut the world out.

Anyway,

how, but, you know, when I, when I think of Maine, I think, you know, hiding in the woods.

How close are you to other homes?

We have one house right next door to us and one across the street.

Well, it's a street full of houses on the other side.

And then we also have woods on our left side and in the back.

Oh, you actually send in some photos of your home, which is fantastic because it makes me feel like I get to invade your home.

And I'm going to look at these exhibits now.

And obviously, these photos will be available on the show page at maximumfun.org on all of our social media.

And if you're watching on the YouTube channel, Judge John Hodgman Pod right now, you can see them.

Okay, exhibit A, kitchen windows facing neighbor.

Yeah, I can see some homes right through those windows.

Yes.

Right.

Yeah.

Two different houses through there.

Two different houses.

It's relatively close.

Yeah.

Do you know those neighbors?

Are they also nudists?

No, but they're very nice.

They're lovely people.

Right.

We've lucked out.

And then you have exhibit B, nook-facing neighbor.

Yes.

So there you see their garage and then the house is next to it.

And we are, yeah, they're wonderful people.

It's just during the day, it's better.

And can I say, this looks like a beautiful home you mentioned alex that it was a fixer-upper but it looks a little fix it up to me we have been going there every weekend since we bought this place and just putting in crazy hours um lots of trim work i just tons of carpentry we painted every square inch of that place yourselves yes well that's not me excuse excuse me yourself kim not you alex yes myself thank you well done but yeah any of the wayne's cutting we did a ton of board and batten throughout the house.

Just, you know, there was no charm inside.

So that's kind of been our goal.

I see two bird houses on a shelf.

Is that for indoor wild birds?

Wild children.

Alex built those with the kids.

We had a trimmed from our house in Arlington.

And one weekend, the kids and I were bored, made those things, brought it up to the house, still haven't hung them up.

But we plan to put them outside here soon.

And there is a book on the table there in your reading nook.

Judging from the cover, which is how I judge all my books,

would that be

The Maine House by Kathleen Hackett with photography by Maura McAvoy and Basha Burwell?

Yes.

That's it.

I love it.

Yeah.

I know Basha from Maine, even.

A wonderful interior stylist and photographer.

Because that book is there, I believe you are in Maine.

I believe, or at least I believe you're a Massachusetts person living in Maine sometimes.

Yeah.

I believe they're in a Maine vacation home because they have indoor birdhouses.

That gave it away.

Yeah, you built two little birdhouses for your soul.

Yeah.

Alex, these neighbors, they're across the street, but they're pretty close.

They can see into your house.

Yes.

I'm certain.

Don't you want privacy?

I feel like I should

can I quickly bring up our house in Arlington, which has every window covered with blinds.

Yeah.

And what happens is

when it gets dark out, all blinds get closed in the house.

And they stay closed.

And it gets dark out, so people can't see into your home.

Correct.

Right.

And they stay closed.

We go to bed.

Blinds are closed in our room.

I wake up in the morning to darkness.

I go downstairs to start eating breakfast.

You and me both.

And my blinds are wide open.

I go downstairs.

It's darkness.

And it's just, I never get to experience sunrises.

There's no connection to

outside.

There's no sun coming in.

And I just, I feel like such

focus is placed on privacy at our house in Arlington That my hope is that this main house can be more of a focus on connection to the outside, not closing up the house so much, going to bed, and then waking up.

I just want to come down the stairs and have sun spilling in.

He wants to blur the line between indoor and outdoor space by having birdhouses inside his house.

And presumably, somewhere, a little wooden lighthouse.

One presumes.

It has to be.

There might be that you don't know whether it's on display somewhere or if it's been hidden in the walls for 100 years.

There is one there, though, for sure.

One of those copper pots that's shaped like a lobster.

Of course.

Did you want to get some copper pots?

Would that be like a lobster jello mold?

Yeah, I think it must be a lobster jello mold or for or for making like a something out of aspic

or something

you're listening to judge john hodgman i'm bailiff jesse thorne of course the judge john hodgman podcast always brought to you by you the members of maximumfun.org thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join and you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join

the judge john hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

I understand what you're talking about.

People have been going from Massachusetts to Maine for solitude and connection to the outdoors for hundreds of years.

But Kennebunk, and particularly where you are, this is not, you're not in the middle of the woods or on the top of a mountain or at the edge of a lake or an ocean.

You're in a fair, closely, densely settled community.

Yes.

It's more like an it's more like a,

you know, like a suburban neighborhood.

Yes.

My fear is going to this place.

So I feel like I have given in on this house in Arlington.

And I just feel like I don't know what the solution is, but I feel like I need to fight the blind.

You've given it, you've given in to whom?

Say the word.

Kim.

Kim, my wife.

Can I also say

in winter,

the length of day is so short that when I leave the house to go to work, it's dark

in the mornings, go to work.

By the time I get home, it's dark again.

So there's points in the winter where I never see windows open.

Right.

And you work in a mine?

It just, no, I mean,

I just, I'm so afraid of this transferring over.

I feel like if I let one blind in to the house of Maine, it's just going to,

I don't know.

I guess I don't know what the solution is.

Well, not all of your windows face your neighbors.

In fact, you sent in exhibits C and D, Charlie, and Delta

using the NATO phonetic alphabet, which I still have not memorized.

Outrageous.

I need to work on that this summer.

Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, echo.

Now I'm forgetting the alphabet.

Foxtrot.

In any case,

exhibits Delta and Charlie

are your dining room.

And all I see there are through those windows are beautiful green trees.

What are they looking out on?

The woods.

Those two back kitchen windows look at the woods.

And then the side pantry window looks at our garage.

And it's a nature preserve, so

nothing will ever be built back there.

You can't see through the woods to anything on the backside.

Like it is completely private.

There's not even pathways that people can walk through.

It's all just private back there.

Yeah.

Do you get any mooses or bears and squirrels and whatnot taking a look at your little nudie bodies?

You know, the deer are out there.

Yeah, we've seen some

fox.

Some fox.

No moose yet.

No.

And wha whatever wildlife is out there, Kim, you would love to put blinds on these windows too, or maybe just spray paint them black so no one can ever see into your home.

Is that right?

What do you want to do with these windows on the nature preserve side?

So those, I mean, I like the option to have everything closed off.

But again, those two, the double ones, do face the woods.

The one on the left faces our garage and the door on the right is to the porch right out to the front yard and to the road.

Kim, I've seen all the photos.

I understand the layout of your home very, very well.

Right.

So I would like that door on the right covered for sure.

But the nature preserve windows, are you willing to let those be bare?

B-A-R-E?

If I had to choose, I would have the option to close everything off.

But yeah, those are, I guess, less visible to others.

In this other house, in the not main house,

What are the window treatments?

Because we've been using the word blinds a lot.

So in our Arlington house, I will add that we live at a five-way intersection.

And so you've got roads coming towards our house and it's very busy with pedestrians and we sit not, we're not level to the road.

So we're up a little higher.

So people up the road, you can see right in at night.

And we do have blinds on every window, not always used, but.

Through the two-inch...

faux blinds.

You go to Home Depot and they have literally an entire aisle of just these blinds.

Are we talking about Venetian blinds?

Are we talking about vertical?

Are we talking about roller blinds?

Are we talking about horizontal slot slat blinds?

They're like two inches thick and maybe like a one and a half inch gap between each one.

And there's just a bunch of them.

And you can like twist the

twist the rod.

Rod and change the angle, or you can lift them completely up out of the way.

The issue, I mean, there's an aesthetic component to this as well, which is those blinds.

They used to have the nice drawstring that you could just like pull the string and they go up and they're kind of bunch up nice and tight up there.

Now the new ones, because I guess the pull strings were like a child hazard, choking hazard, they switched to the mechanism where now it's you kind of lift up on the bottom and they just kind of go up.

Oh, yeah.

They're, they do not function well at all, in my opinion.

After a couple of years, those things are.

Because they don't go up high enough.

They don't raise enough in the window to let in as much light as you like.

It's really thick at the bottom.

So when you lift those things up, now you're looking at like five inches of just plastic up there at the top of the window.

And they just break down.

So like there's half the blinds in our house now.

You kind of really have to give force to lift it.

They just don't function well.

Well, they don't function well being open, but Kim, you feel that they function well being closed, right?

Yes.

I like that.

Because they block out all light and peering eyes.

Exactly.

No one can stare at me through the window if the blinds are closed.

Did I understand correctly when Alex was sort of giving

the situation at your home in Massachusetts?

You close all the blinds at night.

Yes, I do.

Do you have an upstairs and downstairs situation?

Yes.

So all, even you go up to bed at night, but you close all the blinds downstairs too?

Yeah, I close them when it gets dark, when people can start looking in,

or I feel

more exposed, which I can't control, you know, the sunset in the winter.

It does start to get dark at 3.30 or 4 p.m.

on the East Coast.

So by the time he gets home, they are closed.

But yes, I do close all of them at night, particularly once we get the kids to bed.

I like to just close the blinds, disconnect, you know, from the outside world, and just feel that we have our private space.

How many kids do you have?

Two.

And you're hiding them from the world.

Essentially.

Well, they're put to bed by that time.

Alex intimated that this was a compromise or at least a point of discussion in your marriage

that he feels he's gotten the raw end of.

Was this a conversation?

Like, I want to have the window blinds down all the time.

He was like, I don't.

And then you were like, well, too bad.

Or how did it come about that this system happened?

Well, we actually talk about it a lot because he's unhappy when the blinds are closed when he gets home.

And so we've discussed it over the years wherever we've lived.

But ultimately, I'm the one who's home more with the kids.

So I just naturally do that.

Or, you know, when they were littler, it was kind of their clue that it was bedtime.

And so we just closed them all and that type of stuff.

I would say it's gotten.

Maybe it's, it started when we first bought the house in Arlington, it was, we bought the blinds.

I was excited to kind of get something up there as kind of the first place where we had control over that sort of thing.

But I think over the years,

the winters have really taken their toll on me, and I am struggling more and more to have these windows closed just all the time.

It's not like you grew up on the equator, right?

It's not like you grew up, you know, in a place that you're from Ohio, right?

Yes.

Isn't he saying?

Is that where you grew up?

Yes.

Alex, it sounds like part of of this is

the fact that you are not experiencing the opened blind hours of your house because you're off at work.

How does it feel to come home at six o'clock or whenever you come home from work and walk into a house where all the blinds are drawn?

It's one of those things where I just, I don't know.

It's very depressing to just not be able to

look out

into the world.

I don't know.

It's hard to explain.

You work in an office

in Massachusetts somewhere?

In Porter Square.

Yeah, right in Porter Square.

Oh, in Cambridge.

Yes.

What kind of work do you do?

Do you want to say or no?

No, it's fine.

I'm an architecture visualizer.

So architects and developers come to us

with their designs, and then we illustrate their buildings to look photorealistic so they can market them.

Oh, you do the real work.

It's the fun work.

Yeah.

When you draw your pictures of little houses,

do you black out all the windows in obsessive disgust?

No light allowed?

No, but I mean, a big thing of what we do is like every interior that we render, it's all about the natural light coming in.

Like, that's a big selling point to everything we do is like how much natural light is coming into the space.

Everyone always wants to maximize that, right?

So, let's say in the wintertime, you're coming home and the, and you're, you know, the, the sun is down, and the blinds are closed, there's no natural light anyway.

Why do you want to open up those windowshades unless you want the creeps to look at you?

It's, I, it's a mental thing.

I feel like when you walk into a space and everything's just closed off, maybe it's an old age thing, but as I get older, the winters are just getting harder and harder for me.

And

I don't know.

I just maybe it's an old age thing.

Would you say?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How old are you?

40.

All right.

I think I know everything I need to in order.

But let's leave the evening time aside for a moment.

What about the morning?

What are your different preferences in the morning?

I also get a lot of energy, I feel like, by just waking up from the sun.

And when those, because all the bedrooms are closed off, the kids' bedrooms are closed off.

Everything's closed off.

So the entire second floor,

there's just nothing coming in in the mornings.

And

when we wake up in Maine, like we, the sun is coming in, and it's like, it's just such a good feeling.

I don't know.

There's something, I don't know how to explain it.

And I just, I

really like that sensation.

You must really be very, very old.

These blinds

are

tiring to you.

These blinds do not function well at all.

But in all sincerity, I understand

that these blinds stink

because they do.

I've experienced those blinds,

they're garbation,

and they're supposed to go two ways.

And

for about three months, they're genuinely pretty impressive, and then they sort of stop working and they make your life miserable from there on.

Yes.

But there are other ways to cover windows,

including sheer and semi-sheer

options, including treatments to the actual windows.

Yeah.

Including, dare I say this word, John?

Curtains?

Curtains.

Here's my question.

How do the two of you feel about sheer or semi-sheer curtains?

If you had,

Kim, if you were sitting in your house at night, before you've gone to bed, you're watching television or whatever,

and you have a privacy curtain drawn, but not a blackout curtain, how would you feel?

I think it'd be better than nothing, as long as it obscures the view enough.

I mean, if I were just a shadow behind this sheer curtain, it may make me feel a little bit more hidden.

But I think another part of it is at night, we have a lot of cars that go by.

And if it were sheer, then those headlights would still probably get through.

Are the headlights disturbing to you because just the light crosses your eyes and wakes you up?

Or are you concerned that the headlights have souls and they're watching you?

Mostly the fact that I wake up a lot at night and the lights just get my brain going.

Kim is definitely very sensitive to light, like very sensitive to the point I had to put electrical tape on our TV in our bedroom that has the little standby red thing.

I had to cover that.

There can be no light coming in because you are very sensitive

to light.

I do wear, I do have an eye mask.

Kim, have you got that kind

that makes you look like a like a bubble eye bug man?

I tried, but it scared the kids, so I just keep it simple now.

Okay, because that bubble eye bug man kind is tremendous.

It's like molded neoprene or something.

So it sounds like, Alex, you would like in the morning, whether it's in Maine or Massachusetts, to be woken up by the bright sunlight smashing into your face and your closed eyelids like it's a Folgers commercial or something.

I have given in to the fact that the Arlington house is what it is and that is what it will.

continue to be.

I think what I'm asking for is that in Maine, we put the priority on, yes, light coming in, connection to the outside, not closing up the entire house every night.

Almost like we prioritize in Arlington privacy.

I would like in Maine to prioritize nature and light and whatnot.

And how does that make you feel, Kim?

Anxious.

When I, at night, when I just want to get a snack from the kitchen, I'm in the kitchen and I feel tremendous anxiety.

And I, it's, I sit there watching a TV show and the, you know, blinds are, are exposed or open and exposed.

And in Maine, we don't have any in the living room.

And I just sit there thinking like, oh, am I hidden?

Or can someone see me?

Or I just would rather hide under a blanket or something.

You've been living this experiment of a blindless life for about a year.

Yes.

And so do you, you feel self-conscious when you're downstairs at night watching television or whatever?

You feel like people are looking at you?

Yeah.

And I avoid the kitchen if I can.

Just, I just feel exposed and I feel comfortable around our neighborhood.

Even though the kitchen is overlooking a nature preserve, so it's only bears and deers looking at you.

True, you know, the kitchen, the windows are a little higher up, so it would probably, and we're higher up off the ground from the outside back there.

So you'd probably only see my face if I were up at the window.

So I feel a little bit more, you know, protected from that.

Alex, why do you want your wife to be terrified all the time?

I don't want her to be terrified.

I don't know.

I almost feel like the Arlington house has gotten so far.

I don't want to say out of hand, but it's just so far catered towards the privacy.

I feel like I'm giving up a lot for that house.

I feel like just this house in Maine, maybe we treat it a little differently.

I don't want her, I definitely don't want her to feel anxious being in the house.

I guess I'm just not sure

what the solution is.

If we could go back to the

ideas of curtains,

we've done so much work with the woodworking and wainscoting throughout the house.

Like,

there's definitely an aesthetic component to it.

The blinds, like I was saying, when those go up, it's just there's so much.

plastic there.

I don't want to see this ugly plastic in our windows.

With the curtains, I think there's situations where curtains could work, but in a lot of the house, like they're just going to cover up all this woodworking that we spent so much time putting in.

And again, aesthetically, I'm just, I would prefer not to see curtains.

Jesse, you had suggested curtains to them.

What do you see as curtains offering as an advantage over blinds?

Well, there are two primary

temporal windows where this conflict exists.

And I think think they're a little bit separate.

One is waking up in the bedroom.

Yes.

And the question of whether they will rise with natural light or

whether they will have a dark bedroom.

Different people have different preferences about that.

And part of the concern here is that

Alex wakes up when Kim is still asleep and Alex would like to wake up with the light, right?

The other piece of it is

the evening when they're around the house.

And

in that case,

it's a question of Kim feeling uncomfortable being looked in upon

and Alex feeling like he wants to be able to look out.

A privacy curtain, for example,

would obscure the look in

while still giving some feeling of not being claustrophobic or trapped that Alex is seeking.

Kim and Alex, what is the plan for this home in Maine?

How much time do you intend to spend up there?

I'll ask you, Kim.

We've been going every weekend, like Alex said, and we'd like to spend a majority of our summers out there outside of work time.

And whenever we have family in town, we take them up there.

They can stay with us.

So

at least a few times a month, we would like to ideally go up there.

It's primarily a vacation home, a second vacation home.

You're not planning to move there permanently in the future.

No, I mean, when we retire, maybe.

Maybe long term.

Oh, yeah, because you're just around the corner from retirement.

You're 40 years old.

You're right.

That's right.

I forgot about that.

Yeah, exactly.

I can barely grasp the strings of a

yeah, you have a few slender seconds before you walk into the grave to enjoy the sunshine.

What is your specific proposal for the main house, Alex?

When I go up there, there's times when I'll be working on the house.

I'll drive up there on my own, and I

am

at peace the whole time I'm sleeping there.

It really does not bother me to not have window coverings.

I think my biggest thing is

no blinds at all.

We have talked at all.

Throughout the house.

That's your position.

I would like a blindless house.

Yes.

No compromise.

The foundation of any solid marriage.

Do you find that that's fair, Kim?

No.

I would like blinds to I would like the option to cover the windows during the day.

They're all open.

The kids are playing with the neighbors and we keep them open, but I would like the option to be able to cover all the windows to feel less anxious in my own home.

You know, Alex said that when he wakes up in Maine, he feels wonderful because light is pouring in the windows and he slept very well.

How would you describe your sleep experience in Maine?

Yeah, well, in Maine, yeah, currently there are no blinds at all.

And at the end of our bed is one of the windows.

So it's just directly right in front of us.

And so you've got a street light off to one side.

And I feel half awake the whole night, not able to settle and just restless and

not able to sleep very well.

So your bedroom in Maine, I presume it's on a second floor.

Yes.

So it's a little bit harder to see into, but it also seems to be facing the street, right?

Because the populated area, not the nature preserve, because you've got a streetlight out there.

That's correct.

And it faces south.

Do you have a bedroom that you could move into that would face the nature world?

We do.

Actually, we do.

Have you ever ever considered moving your bedroom in there?

Well, when the house was under construction, we did bounce around from room to room, and that was one that we enjoyed because it was near the nature.

It's a smaller room.

All right, let me just make sure I understand before I go into my chambers and close my curtains and think about this.

Kim, your position is you want blinds on every window.

And Alex, your position is you want blinds on zero windows.

Correct.

And there is there.

I mean,

I mean, one of you's got to blink, right?

That's one way to shut out the light.

Blink, right?

I would say I

would be open the curtains in certain spaces.

I guess the idea would have to be that curtains need to be

limited

to

neighbor-facing windows.

But I would also ask that if we do do curtains of some sort.

Have you considered the possibility that after Kim falls pleasantly asleep, that you get up in the middle of the night and tiptoe through the house, opening up all of the drapes and curtains and blinds, maybe while wearing a hockey mask?

I know that wouldn't fly for the bedroom because I know you are very sensitive to light.

I know that's always an issue.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my chambers.

I'm going to close all of the drapes, and I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Kim, how are you feeling right now?

I feel pretty good.

I feel it's reasonable to feel comfortable in your own home and to not feel anxious at night when you want to just relax and watch a movie together.

So we'll see.

Is it possible you're just feeling good because there's no windows in that recording studio?

No one can see me.

Alex, how are you feeling?

I realize that it's ridiculous to not have my wife feel comfortable in our Maine retreat.

I think this is maybe perhaps a bit of not wanting our house in Maine to be like Arlington.

And I.

You're also allowed to want to feel comfortable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just feel like what I'm asking maybe, I don't know.

Is unreasonable.

Yeah, no, there's unreasonable about that.

Maybe we just invest in those like super expensive blinds that go up at a certain time.

No, we have no money for them.

I mean, I think there's, there's no doubt that you basically,

you, Alex, seem to want to live in like a glass geodesic dome and Kim

wants to live 40 feet below the surface of the earth

only at night well we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second

you know we've been doing my brother my brother me for 15 years and

maybe you stopped listening for a while maybe you never listen and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years I know where this has ended up but no

no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge John Hodgman, the second season of your Smash Kit podcast, ePluribus Motto is available now.

And I will be very dismayed if Judge John Hodgman listeners do not check out this wonderful program.

Our first episode of the second season is on the great state of Maryland.

Janet Varney and I had a great time discussing the only state motto in the United States that is in Italian, fatimaschi parole femine.

Don't look up the translation, listen to the podcast.

Maryland also has one of the wildest state flags.

We also hear a lot about the history of the black sailors in the Chesapeake Bay, the Baltimore accent, William Dorsey Swan, who may arguably be the very first drag performer in United States history, and of course, Scrapple.

Jennet and I had such a great time discussing all of these state mottos and mascots and mammals and monsters, official and unofficial, plus all kinds of little-known facts and weird trivia.

And we hope that you will listen to it.

It's called ePluribus Motto, and it is available right now on maximumfun.org, wherever you get your podcasts.

And Jesse Thorne, what's going on with you?

Well, we are in the midst of the second wind of our fundraiser for Alotrolado, which is an organization that supports, provides legal and humanitarian support to migrants on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border.

Obviously, here in Los Angeles, things have been really grotesque and hairy with families being torn apart,

people being arrested and detained.

And I mean, my wife literally just watched a video of our congressperson going to an immigration detention facility in order to exercise his congressional oversight

obligations

and being told he couldn't visit it because it was a processing facility, not a detention facility.

And he then took the people out to the giant sign outside that said detention facility

and was still told he couldn't go in there.

So

it's a really dark and scary time for

us here in LA.

I know some similar things have been happening in New York City where you live, John.

So this is a direct way that you can support people

who are seeking refuge in our nation of immigrants.

It's allotrolado.org/slash let's do something.

And we uh we will have that link in the show description as well.

So, alotrolado.org slash let's do something.

And uh, yeah, and thanks to everybody who's given, thanks to everybody who has uh taken action to protect themselves and their family members and their neighbors uh during a really tough time.

Indeed, let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Well, first of all, I want to thank you both, and especially you, Kim, for allowing us all to peer through the windows into your home and case it.

Well, we're not casing it.

We're admiring it.

I am, definitely.

This is a gorgeous-looking home, and

everything about it I like.

I'm grateful to say.

I think that your taste, and not only is your taste

the main house book worthy,

but your skills are astonishing if you've been doing this painting and this wainscoting and everything else yourself.

It looks great.

And I look at these windows without any treatments on them at all, and I'm like, doesn't get better than this.

Look at that view out the kitchen window.

to all that wonderful nature.

I mean, this is what you go to Maine for, right?

To let light come in and look out at the nature and everything else.

But on the other hand, you know, I've been living in New York City for 30 odd years.

And the idea of privacy has become so quaint to me that I don't care anymore.

Like we have an across the alleyway neighbor who is not

intent upon invading our privacy.

It just happens.

And oftentimes when I would go out in my backyard, she would yell down at me, Brookline, because I'm from Brookline, Massachusetts.

And she went to Brookline High School too.

She's like, what's going on?

I'm like,

I'm trying to lounge out here in the sun and maybe, maybe do one ab crunch in order to become immortal.

But, you know, just because I am more comfortable, as obviously your husband is,

with the concept of being seen, no matter how likely or unlikely it is in either Kennebunk or Arlington, doesn't mean that you need to be Kim.

And here we come to the real conflict, and we've been dancing around it for a while.

This place in Kennebunk is supposed to be your retreat.

And yet your style of comfort is very, very different.

Kim really wants privacy and Alex really wants sunshine.

And what's standing between those things, aside from your mutual unwillingness to compromise, is these garbage blinds that you got from Lowe's or whatever.

Now, I was listening in when I was in my chambers and I heard Kim say, well, maybe we should just get those blinds that go up and down automatically on a routine, some smart blinds.

And I appreciate, you know, now that you've made this investment in this home and you've put in a lot of work, and I'm sure the materials were very expensive, that you both were sort of feeling like, yeah, but we can't afford that.

I would say you should.

I mean, you should find a way to both be comfortable in this home.

Kim deserves a retreat and a place of peace and quiet.

And as well, Alex, you deserve a retreat and a place where you can live in a style that

is

more relaxing to you than living in the prison of your Arlington home.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you replace the blinds in your Arlington home.

Arlington,

I don't know a lot about Arlington as a town, but I do know a lot about Massachusetts, and it's dead to me as it should be to you.

That is the past.

You cannot fix the past.

Now is the time to come up with some solution that serves both of your senses of well-being

in the future, which is Kennebunk, Maine.

It's a little bit,

I don't know whether it's dramatic irony or tragic or whatever, but that the place that you chose to be your retreat

might as might as well be Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts.

I mean, it's not rural per se.

It's more of a settled, you know, like suburban neighborhood where there are people who can see in.

And absolutely, it's the case that you need to have privacy in those windows where humans are going to be able to routinely see in, whether they're walking a dog or passing by in a car or peering across the street through binoculars, whatever they're up to.

You need window treatments there.

And the thing that I feel like is missing from this whole conversation is the fact that window treatments can be beautiful.

You know, they don't just have to be garbage blinds that you get from Lowe's that don't work very well.

And I understand that these window treatments cost a lot of money, and that is

annoying and frustrating.

And perhaps it's out of reach, but I think that you should maybe start saving up for a window treatment solution that is not the bare bare bones blackout lines that you're getting

off the bottom of the racket lows, but in fact do accommodate your two very different styles of light and privacy needs and tolerance.

So I don't think that you should be automatically ruling out

Alex curtains or privacy shears, particularly in those windows that face human occupation.

And equally, Kim, I I think you should be open to the idea that in the part of the house that faces the nature preserve,

the blinds should be so minimal or the curtains should be so minimal that it's very, that it may be open more often than not, you know.

But I don't like to, I, this is a judgment podcast.

Someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong.

And I don't like compromise

unless you're trying to have a marriage.

In which case, yeah, you both have to be a little bit uncomfortable in order to each of you maintain a certain level of comfort it cannot be all one or the other not even in maine i don't think that the solution is you got it your way in arlington now i get it my way in maine that's too harsh instead i think that you need to investigate window treatment options that will work for both of you.

And I don't think you should automatically rule out more expensive options that might have automation now

i've messed around with smart bulbs in my house all the time bulbs that will dim at certain hours or turn different colors i'm sorry paul f tompkins i know you love them they've never worked for me but that doesn't mean that there is no smart home option with regard to blinds that might work for you both

i mean here's the thing i am going to split this down the middle a little bit because kim's concerns are really real she needs to be as comfortable in in the house as you do.

But the solution that you came up with in Arlington, which, as I say, is Massachusetts and dead in the past, no changes there.

But as you go forward into the future, you need to come up with something that makes you both feel happy and comfortable.

And, you know, I think that it's such an important priority that, you know, while you might have to save up for it over time,

you should probably consider investing more money than what you've invested in in Arlington because that's that's clearly not working for both of you.

That's clearly only working for you, Kim.

So if I'm splitting the difference, which is a term that I've never really understood, I guess on balance, I'm going to say that I am ruling in Alex's favor

in that his need and desire for light in this weekend and summertime retreat should be prioritized in a way that it hasn't been so far.

But that does not mean, Kim, that your sense of comfort and privacy and security should be sacrificed to the no window treatment option.

I would suggest

next time you're in Kennebunk, open that book, The Maine House.

I think it's actually the sequel, The Main House 2.

Yep.

There's some beautiful photos of different homes in Maine, and a lot of them are in very rural areas where a lot of people don't have window treatments at all.

But look at some window treatments in there and see if you can draw any inspiration

for how to

make you both happy.

Because otherwise, you're just going to have to live in separate houses, and I don't want that for you.

This is the sound of a gavel.

No, no.

What happened?

He hates bright lights.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Kim, how do you feel right now?

I guess I feel pretty good.

I know that he values my privacy and how I feel.

So I think that's good.

Alex, how are you feeling?

I think it's,

I've always just looked away from the automated.

I actually put in a lot of automated stuff in our house, but I've always just steered clear of the automated blinds because they're so expensive.

But I think

talking through this, you know, so thoroughly, which we've never really done,

it, it makes sense to reprioritize our budget and things that perhaps we were going to do in the short term.

We put that off.

We prioritize now maybe investing in something like this because the automated solution would solve the problem.

It's a cost thing.

And I think if we just reprioritized our budget, I think it makes sense.

Alex and Kim, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We'll have Swift Justice in just a second.

First, our thank you to Redditor Dinosaur 1972 for naming this week's episode.

You can name episodes at on Reddit, Reddit.com slash r slash maximum fun.

That's where we ask for them.

You can also just go check them out.

Nice community, positive vibes over there in the MaxFun subreddit.

Evidence and photos for the show are on Instagram at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

You can also find them on this episode's page at maximumfun.org.

You can find us on TikTok and YouTube at judgejohnhodgman pod.

You know what we got there, John?

No, what do we got?

Hot content.

Hot content, Jesse, and hot comments.

Thanks for all your comments on our YouTube channel, especially our most recent episode about a man who wears the same cargo shorts every day.

One nice comment that came through came from a user at Tuckamore Dew, who wrote, Somehow, I often find myself both listening to the audio version and then watching the video as well.

And I'm okay with that.

Jesse's delighted reactions in this episode were delightful to see.

That's absolutely true.

It's always delightful to see Jesse's reactions.

And if you were a subscriber to the YouTube channel and you watched this episode on YouTube this week, you also got to see Jesse's very own cargo pants.

That's not something you can hear, folks.

As much as I love Tucker Moore Dew's comment, the YouTube comment of the week, however, must go to at Steve Litt,

who wrote, does anyone remember the old MTVs, the state sketch, where Michael Ian Black goes shopping for his very first pair of pants?

And it's an unexpectedly joyful and life-affirming experience?

Yes, I do remember that skit.

I love Michael Ian Black.

I love that skit.

You can watch that skit on YouTube.

And guess what?

If you're over there, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to the Judge John Hodgman channel, a Judge John Hodgman pod?

We are just about to hit 6,000 subscribers.

And here's my goal, Jesse.

About to hit 6,000.

By tomorrow, I'd like that to be 6 million.

Great.

Think we can do it?

Perfect goal.

It's not merely that I'm pathetically addicted to attention.

You have to understand.

YouTube is one of the ways that a lot of people are listening to podcasts now.

And every time you leave a comment or subscribe or share the videos, that's telling YouTube that more people want to see this stuff.

And that's how it's really helpful for people to discover the show.

So thank you very much for doing those things.

You remember that

one where Michael E.

Black is the Pope and they're spraying everybody with that hose of marinara sauce?

I do.

And also watch Michael Ian Black on Roy Wood Jr.

and Amber Ruffin's show.

Have I got news for you on CNN?

It's a delight.

I just learned from that show that Michael Ian Black dropped out of college.

Yeah.

to be Donatello from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in a touring show of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but he wasn't in the show.

he toured ahead of the show and marched in parades and did morning radio a morning television weather to promote the show yeah if they were they would have people come through dressed as turtles in advance of the big live turtles show and michaelene black was one of them i i it's a really funny it's a really funny story go ahead and yeah The best thing I've learned since I learned about Maria Bamford's career as a mall Star Trek character.

I didn't even know about that.

Yeah, well, you should listen to to more bullseye interviews with Maria Bamford.

I really should.

I should see them all.

Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode engineered by Chris Kalafarski at PRX Podcast Garage in Alston, Massachusetts.

Our social media manager, Dan Telford, the podcast edited by A.J.

McKeon, our video editor, Daniel Spear.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Now let's get to Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Kidani on the MaxFun subreddit asks, what is the most common slang for a U-turn?

I call it pulling a UE.

My husband insists it's pulling a U-B.

No amount of arguing or evidence will convince him he is wrong.

U-B?

I mean, maybe that's a regionalism.

I've never heard it before.

It's interesting.

U-B.

We say UE all the time.

UB.

Let me try using it in a sentence.

You be incorrect, husband.

It's UE.

That's all it is.

Never heard that.

Look, if you've heard you be for Yui, go ahead and write me.

I'm sure you will.

Ogman at maximumfund.org.

That's also where you send in disputes.

You know, our listeners were from Massachusetts.

You know who else is from Massachusetts, Jesse?

Aside from me?

Monty Belmonty, obviously.

Jonathan Richmond.

Okay, Jonathan Richmond.

I don't know who else is from Massachusetts.

Jaws.

Jaws, the famous shark.

Yeah, the shark from the movie Jaws.

Yeah, the fictional Massachusettsian island of Amity Island.

Let's have a shark week on Judge John Hodgman.

Send us in your shark disputes.

Which is the best shark and why?

Why do all boy-gendered children's clothes have sharks on them?

Does your family need a bigger boat?

Have you heard the shark news out of my house?

I have not.

My 13-year-old, Gracie, announced that she was working on the best idea she'd ever had in her life.

Yeah.

Which she has a lot of ideas.

So, if this is the best one, it's big news.

And it was, she went on an e-commerce website and ordered a big bag of blue shark gummies and then a big bag of sour cherry balls.

And then she took a wooden spoon and mixed them in a bowl.

and said that was her clown shark mix because the sharks represent sharks.

Yeah.

And then the red cherry balls represent clown.

This is a direct quote: clown noses.

You know, honk honk.

Look, I have no dispute with that.

That's a great idea.

But if you've got a shark-related dispute, or a painful beach-related dispute, or a boat-or bigger boat-related dispute, anything to do tangentially.

Both size dispute with Jaws

from the movie Jaws.

From the movie Jaws, anything at all, send it in to maximumfund.org/slash JJHO.

There's a handy little form there.

They'll fill it out in two seconds.

If you must email me, you, of course, may at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

It goes directly to me.

And I want to be clear, from now on, only shark disputes, right, Jesse?

That's the only thing we want to have on the podcast, correct?

Whatever your dispute is, go to maximumfund.org slash jjho and send it to us or just email us at hodgman at maximumfund.org But, you know, that form, we get your phone number and stuff in case Jen has to call you back.

Save steps.

Maximumfund.org/slash JJHO, no matter what your dispute is, because

our

program, John,

is a big rig flying down the highway.

And your disputes are the diesel fuel powering those pistons.

Absolutely.

You, you are, your disputes are the chum in the water that get this podcast chomping with its jaws.

Yeah.

Get this podcast chomping.

Let's get this podcast chomping.

We'll talk to you next time on Judge John Hodgman.

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