Wet Suit

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, wet suit, Jason brings the case against his friend Miguel.

Jason and Miguel are surfing buddies in San Diego, California.

Jason says that Miguel's favorite surfing spot is bogus.

It's all party waves full of Jakes and Groms.

Jason doesn't want to compete with other surfers.

He just wants to ride.

But Miguel says the the waves at his beach are the sickest and tastiest.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Uh

Papa Umau Mau.

Papa Umau Ma Mau.

Papa Umau Mau, Papa Umau Mau.

Yes.

Papa Umau Mau, Papa Umau Mau.

Papa Umau Mau, Papa Umau Ma Mau.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, Thorne, please swear them in.

Jason, Miguel, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

Yes, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he doesn't do sick voices like me?

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Jason and Miguel, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

I see, Jason, you are raising your hand eagerly what was i quoting that is surfing bird by

the animals whoa you raised your hand fast for a guy who didn't even know the name of the band

i got the i well you want to guess the animals i'm going to guess surfing bird surfing bird by the animals i'm going to say okay i said the animals i got to go with the animals do you want to add the trash men or the trashman

that's two that's two guesses What about you, Miguel?

I had no idea.

I'd never you have no idea?

I had no idea.

I guess that you know hurts me a little bit in terms of

does that ring a bell, Miguel?

It does.

It does.

It does.

Do you also want to guess surfing bird by the trash man or the animals?

Go on.

I beg you to.

I beg you to.

Trashman by the surf birds.

The trashing bird by the surfman.

Mikkel hasn't even heard about the bird.

He doesn't even know that the bird is the word.

I can't believe I got over on that one.

Oh, my goodness.

When Jason's hand went straight up, I was like, well, he knows that it's surf and bird.

And he probably knows that it's surfing and Bird by the Trash Man, because that is, of course, probably the most famous and most used on the soundtrack of Full Metal Jacket version of that song.

But even if he had gotten it absolutely right, I would have had the chance to say all guesses are wrong.

Even if Jason, with his hand up, knew that Surfin' Bird, which includes the lyrics Papa Umau Mau,

is actually a cover of an earlier, two earlier songs.

One song called Surfin' Bird, one song called Papa Umau Mau, by the Rivingtons.

The Rivingtons,

specifically

lead vocalist Carl White, tenor Al Frazier, baritone Sonny Harris, and bass singer Turner Rocky Wilson Jr.

originated that song in 1962.

And if you had guessed, Jason, that it was the Rivingtons,

I would have zigged and zagged to say, no, I was not actually quoting that recording.

I was actually recording the Rivingtons

as they appeared on a 1990 episode of Nightcourt

called Raisin Bull.

No chance.

We have no chance.

In which, and then the surviving Rivingtons, Sonny Harris, Rocky Turner, Wilson Jr., and Al Frazier appeared as Mac's old bandmates, the Starlights, and performed Papa Umau Mau on that show.

And credit to Night Court for so many things,

including reviving the memory of the original black artist who recorded that song.

Good for them, the Rivingtons.

In any case, now we are going to hear the song.

It was a wipeout for both of you, by the way.

Here we go.

I mean, that was a pretty close guess.

Eric Burden and the Animals, the famous British rock crew.

I got an era, right?

No tastier waves than

Isle of Man or whatever.

One of the fun things about the Trashmen is that they're from Minneapolis.

They are not.

They are one of the great landlocked surfing rock bands.

Although, you know,

they could have gone up to Duluth to go surfing in Lake Superior.

Either of you ever do lake surfing?

Never been that desperate.

You can catch some sick waves in Duluth.

Or so I have read.

But okay, let's get into it.

Who seeks justice in this courtroom?

That would be me, sir.

Jason, your hand is up.

You and Miguel go surfing together.

Let's do a little background here.

How did you two meet and how did you two?

You're friends, right?

Until today.

Now you're enemies.

How did you two meet and how did you two get into surfing?

I first heard the sound of Miguel's voice on the phone.

My boss in San Diego set me up with Miguel for an interview to join my team in Hawaii.

I was starting a new office for a staffing company that we both worked for, and my boss gave me an opportunity to select my team.

Yeah, this is a tale as old as time, Jesse Thorne.

All the great surfing friendships started with an off-site interview to join your staff, to staff up a team.

An HR team.

Also, all great staffing companies are based in tasty surf locations.

You cannot hire temps or search for executives or whatever unless there's a sweet field of tasty gnar or whatever.

And we have a photo of the two of you as younger men.

Oh, no, I'm sorry.

I have a photo of Tom Cruise from the movie Cocktail

and another guy.

Well, no, this is supposedly the two of you.

Obviously, these photos will be available on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account as well as our show page at maximumfund.org.

But both of you are wearing Hawaiian print shirts and and drinking some luminous uh luminously colored drinks and smiling uh this looked like fun in honolulu how old were you when this was taken both of you i was 34.

jason was a 34 year old man that he reminded me very frequently of uh i was 28.

okay

and now you're older much older you rickety old men

uh but i mean check out this

jesse can you see this photo of tom cruise over here This is a picture of two handsome young men who work at a staffing company.

Yeah, both are very handsome.

But you would agree that Jason on the left is pretty cruis-ish, right?

He looks like Cruz on a cruise.

Looks like Cruz on a cruise.

Exactly.

These two guys are having what appears to be a tropical brodown.

Where do you live now?

Oh, San Diego, right?

That's right.

Well, that is often rated the number one city to live in in the continental United States.

For good reason.

But do you, do you miss Honolulu so much?

Yes, that was a real heady time.

We were doing well.

We were single fellas running around, surfing a couple times a day.

Surfed on patrol and surf again in the evening.

You want to go on the podcast saying that now we're married and our lives are over?

Is that what you're trying to say?

It's just different.

Different kinds of adventures on a smaller scale.

Life has many chapters, doesn't it?

But look at this chapter in your life where you're, where you're surfing.

Here are some action shots of surfing.

I cannot tell who it is who's up on this board in this photo.

Can you tell me?

That is actually me.

And Jason's taking a photo of me when I think you were injured or something like that.

Yeah, I think I'm in your back or something like that.

That's me.

It's very kind of him to, you know, talk to enough surfers, and very few have photos of themselves because nobody wants to take photos because they'd much rather be surfing.

They'd much rather be surfing.

Yeah, so Jason was very kind and took photos of me, even though he couldn't surf.

That's why you secretly poisoned Jason and

gave him a diarrhea so he had to

sit on the sand and take pictures of you.

Where is this surfing locale?

I'm pretty sure this is

just north of Swami's.

What spot is this?

I'm not going to know the name of the surfing beach.

Is this San Diego or

North County, San Diego?

North County, San Diego.

John, I hate to contradict you here, but I'm going to have to ask them to list some of the funny names that surfers may have for surfing spots where they live.

Oh, we're going to be talking about that.

And let's talk about the lingo for a second.

Sure.

I had to go.

I don't know.

I did a little.

I added Groms and

what was the other one?

Jake's?

Jake's.

I've heard of Jake before.

You know, you have a Hodad.

What's a Hodad?

A Hodad is like a a fellow.

Is it a person who hangs around the beach and does not surf?

No, a hodad surfs, but a hodad is a little

long in the tooth surfing, I guess.

That's you two.

You two are hodads.

We're hodads at this point.

You're also directly contradicting wavetribe.com's surfing lingo glossary that I obviously read from cover to cover about 15 minutes ago.

A grom

supposedly,

what would that a grom be?

Do you know that one?

Younger kid, that's a kid, a young and inexperienced kid, usually under like 15.

Oh, wow,

15, 16, and younger is like a grom, like 15 or 16-year-old would be one of the oldest groms, I would say.

And then the seven-year-olds are gromlets.

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's all grom, yeah.

And a Jake, according to this website, is a surfer who gets in the way of more experienced surfers.

Interesting, interesting.

I hadn't heard that term, but that resonates with me.

Jason, what is dropping in?

Okay, so dropping in is

when you take off on a wave.

So you paddle on your stomach, right?

And then when the wave energy picks you up,

you jump up to your feet very quickly, and then you slide down the face of the wave.

And that's called dropping in.

Now, if you drop in on someone,

that's an infraction.

If you drop in on someone, they might break their neck.

They might.

They might get hurt.

You might stab them with your board.

Yeah.

What is a lineup?

You want to take that one, Miguel?

Sure.

A lineup is where a group of surfers are trying to catch waves.

So if you go to any surf spot and you'll see like basically a pod of surfers, that's typically the lineup.

What is a hang 10?

That's when you get both of your toes or both of your feet.

Both of your toes.

Both of you.

Some of them, unfortunately.

That's what happened when Miguel let someone drop in on him.

He lost eight toes.

When you get all 10 toes over the front of the board, it's on a long board.

On a long board.

Either of you guys ever hang 11?

Ever hang 11?

No, I can't say I've ever managed to quite hang 10.

Have you?

Do you hang 10?

I don't know.

You just get a cheater five, which is kind of like when you get, you're like leaning back and getting five fingers over the front or five five toes.

Get your digits right.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne,

some guys they hang 11.

Yeah.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

They hang 11.

Some guys hang 11.

By the way, I feel like Miguel's understanding of his own body is sort of like a Vincent D'Onofrio and men in black situation.

It's possible that Miguel is an alien in a man suit.

Don't explain a lot.

Have you seen my cat?

Means the world to me.

Vincent D'Onofrio,

a lot of things to say about him, but I'm going to move on.

You've probably heard it before, but if you want to hear my Vincent D'Onofrio story,

go over to the YouTube page for this episode over there at judgejohnhodgman Pod on YouTube, and I'll be there as a video extra.

But meanwhile, let's get down to the case.

Jason, you bring this dispute against Miguel.

It is about where you go surfing.

What is the nature of the dispute?

Now that you are a couple of hodads living in San Diego, your youth in honolulu has been spent you've wiped out in life and and washed ashore in adulthood uh in san diego what what are you fighting about jason

well uh we used to surf a couple of times a day potentially we would surf maybe typically three to four days a week how did you ever make any time for staffing

Well,

you do dawn patrol.

You get up at five.

You get before the sun comes.

Dawn.

That's another term.

And Miguel isn't typically all that keen to get out for Dawn Patrol.

These days, for sure,

you used to be a little more prep for it, but that's how we would surf three times in a day.

Yeah.

Finish work and you surf.

4:30 after work, or three times was on a weekend, right?

Yeah.

You got it

4:30, maybe lunchtime.

So you're saying in Honolulu, you would get up at dawn, go surfing,

then go to work, do a little staffing

till 4:30,

maybe eat a spam masubi.

There you go.

Yeah, yeah.

Now you're talking.

And then

you would go surfing again.

Sometimes two, three hours in a session.

Wow.

Every day over day.

And paddle back

in the lee of the Hilton, Hawaiian village with the rainbow mosaic on it and fireworks going off over your head of a Friday evening.

Diamond head in the back.

Reflected in the water.

Diamond.

It was quite a.

And the Dom Patrol, by the way, the entire sky is pink

and the water is like glass.

So that pink sky is reflected in the water and you're swimming through a

candy land.

I went to every, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Time moves in one direction.

That's the past, dude.

It's all over for you.

Now Dawn Patrol is down patrol because you're in your cozy bed.

Yeah, that's right.

There we go.

Uncomforter patrol.

Is dawn patrol dad patrol for either of you, ho, dads?

Do you have kids?

Oh, yeah.

Either of you.

Both of you?

yeah, that's why for me, right?

It's just not feasible.

So, what are you in your third?

Are you all both in your 30s now?

I'm a 50-year-old man.

He's a 50-what?

I'm 43.

Oh,

you seem to have gotten younger.

Take it.

No, no, that makes sense because it's 28, 34.

Yeah, I can, I'm learning to do subtraction.

That's my

New Year's resolution for next year.

Learn to do subtraction.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Okay, so now you're you're grown-ups.

You both live in San Diego.

You don't surf that often, and that's why we're here, right, Jason?

What's the issue?

That's right.

So we now surf maybe once a month.

And of late, and I have a couple of theories as to why this has become the case.

Miguel is very good at reading the tides and the waves and the charts and so on to select surf spots.

He likes to geek out of the game.

He's into sports.

So, you know, Jesse,

he's very much into stats.

And so he gets into that, right?

So he's very good at finding the spots.

And we all just my my other buddy joe and i we acquiesce to him typically to pick the spot but lately uh i'd say three and four maybe four and five times that we go and this is like now once a month or twice a month we're surfing black speech oh and and have have you seen that yeah black speech is an expert

expert level right it's expert it can be double black dime in that spot

it can be miguel tell me about black speech i'm pretending like i know all about it, but I know nothing.

Oh.

Blacks Beach is probably one of the most beautiful beaches in all of San Diego, one of the most consistent surf breaks in all of San Diego.

And, you know, oftentimes you can kind of just go and see beautiful nature, beautiful views.

I mean,

I honestly would say

it's an equivalent to the North Shore of Hawaii in some ways, you know, and so that's one major reason or a few major reasons why I really like it.

And

Jason made reference to double black diamond, which I presume is some expert rating.

That, yeah, I mean, for snowboarders and ski board ski boarders, skiers, they also know that double ski boarders,

skinny ski boards.

That's what they call skis.

They will

rate their, you know, the technicality or the difficulty of their, you know, the mountain on that scale.

But I wouldn't say blacks is a double black diamond every single time you go.

You can go and it's a, to use the same metaphor a green or a blue probably more times it's a green i would say than anything else what makes it if if it's i mean

jason what makes it double black diamond or whatever like the intensity of the waves the height of the waves the the rapidity of the waves

i it's the level of surfing that's there it's well known as a good surf spot and it's well known as being very consistent so you'll get some of the best surfers in san diego converge there especially if the forecast is good So if this is a good thing.

Do you understand what I'm asking?

What makes it good for surfing?

Waves, right?

Waves?

Yes.

You're an expert, so you could probably address that.

I would say the height of the waves, the texture of the water.

So like if it's very,

you know, if it's very.

I think the texture is usually wet, correct?

One of them is juicy.

It could also be, it can be, it can be described as oily.

It can be described as soupy.

What are you, what are you,

surfing in Dasani water?

John, you have to understand.

It takes a little extra explanation for you to understand this but me and miguel are both sports guys so we know a lot about numbers and we can understand about oily water yeah

so yeah the conditions are what make it good and good conditions typically are wave height wave texture so like if it's clean or rocky or right you know uh very you know when you're looking out of the ocean you see like white caps bad conditions um and so but given that those scenarios that's where where blacks is usually one of the best because it's also wind protected so if there's a lot of onshore offshore wind that's another uh variable to what makes waves good and bad and obviously this is a well-known spot jason you point out that lots and lots of good surfers go there because of these conditions and that's your problem with it correct that's one of the problems i have so uh when the conditions are great i can't compete I don't surf enough to compete with the level of surfing that's going on there.

So when it's good, I tend to have to back off of these waves.

So I don't drop in on somebody.

Somebody's always a little deeper than me and I'm always having to back off.

And it's big, so it's a little scary.

There's a big underwater canyon there.

So the water goes from very deep to very shallow.

So even smaller waves can pack a real punch there.

So when the waves are good, longer period, there's longer space between the waves.

It has this energy that builds up and it can really sock you and hold you down all the way to the bottom.

And it can be a little unpleasant.

And then that's all right.

If you're catching these great waves, it's worth it.

But when it's good, there's other great surfers out there.

I'm not in shape to compete with them.

So it winds up being a lot of paddling and I never catch any waves.

What does competing with other surfers entail?

Why don't you give them all diarrhea the way Miguel did you?

You're on to something.

Beach them.

Literally beach them.

That's a tactic I hadn't considered.

Short of poisoning them, which I urge you not to do, what is competing with other more experienced and presumably younger surfers mean?

You have to paddle faster out further to get the wave first or what?

Yeah, do you

pretty much exactly that?

You know, you just have to be in the right position.

Yeah, I got it right.

Miguel, who gets to pick who's surfing the wave?

Like, what are the rules?

What's the hierarchy?

Yeah, what's the etiquette?

Yeah, you could probably have an entire podcast on that.

But traditionally, it's who's ever closest to the peak when the wave breaks.

So when the wave breaks, it's going to break in one direction or the other.

So if it's breaking to the right,

who's ever furthest to the left of that peak gets the priority for that wave or has essentially the, you know, the right to that wave.

So, if you are essentially to the right of that person who is going on the

right as you are further to the left, you would be cutting them off at that point.

So, among that pod, it can be a little competitive because if a good wave comes, a lot of people can recognize that a good wave is coming, and six people paddle to the wave.

And yeah, it turns into a little bit of a competition of who can be claimed to be closest to the point of where the wave is breaking as well as pop up first.

Because if you pop up first, you might be able to kind of make a claim that you were in the right position.

Got it.

So even if you're not closest to the peak, if you pop up first, then you might.

claim that territory.

You might be able to, but you know, you might have someone that will say, no, I was closer to the peak.

And, you know, that's how disputes start in the lineup typically.

I'll tell you this.

I used to be the news director of KZSC-FM in Santa Cruz, California, which is a bit of a surf town.

Yeah.

And I had a guy in my news class who was quite a surfer.

And there was an assignment in this class that you had to make one news story about something going on in Santa Cruz.

And his news story was about surfing.

It was no surprise.

He had no other interests.

And

I learned that the consequences of breaking surf etiquette could be far beyond my wildest imaginings.

They, like, they involved things that would violate the Geneva Conventions.

So

what are

the consequences?

What are we talking about?

Yeah.

Well, there's a, I'm pretty sure it's Palos Verdes.

There's a pretty significant case and, you know, investigation going on about these local surfers who kind of have claimed the wave as their territory.

And as a result, yeah, people go to that wave.

And if they don't know them, they don't like them, they'll slash their tires, they'll throw rocks at them, they will make it very, very unpleasant.

And yeah, and so it can be, it can get to the point of violence, unfortunately, if you drop in on somebody who doesn't like you and wants to have a reason to, you know, fight you, essentially.

Chessey Thorne, do we need to go out to Black Speech and become surf court?

Yeah, I think they could use you.

I mean,

I heard stories about people being held underwater, people being beat up.

You also sent in, Jason, a video

from Blacks Beach, which is pretty dramatic.

Describe this video.

There is a potential energy bomb.

When you walk down this path and then you come out onto Blacks Beach, you look up, there's about a 300-foot cliff of sandstone, and there's water leaking from it.

And this bomb hangs over here.

It adds to the drama.

It's kind of exciting.

But then when you see this video, this is from just a couple of years ago.

Before you tell me more about the video, Jason, I think Jennifer Marmer, our wonderful producer, is about to share it with us.

For those of you who are watching on YouTube, you can see it there.

And if not, go to our show page.

What we just saw is a genuinely terrifying, absolutely classic avalanche.

Just a

not a snow avalanche.

No, no.

Side of a mountain avalanche, just rocks and nightmare rolling down and making a sound like a

thousand steer on the move.

Why weren't either of you surfing that bluff collapse?

That looked like a pretty tasty wave.

Not many people are going to drop in on that one, that's for sure.

When was this, Jason, that this collapse happened?

Two years ago in January.

So you're saying that Blacks Beach,

you could be on the beach at any moment.

Let's say you haven't gone into the water.

Let's say you have beach diarrhea and you're sitting on the beach.

You're saying you could just be covered in an avalanche at any moment.

That's part of the reason why you don't want to surf this spot.

Oh, Judge John Hodgman, this is not theoretical.

There's now this,

this has not happened at Blacks Beach yet, but at a beach that I frequent, another beach in

North County, there was a bluff collapse and

it ended in a tragedy.

I don't want to hear that.

Nice,

our podcast down, but there are consequences associated with these beach collapses.

Folks who watched the video or even heard the audio could hear that it was pretty violent and dangerous seeming.

But this is why you don't want to go to Black's Beach?

I wouldn't say that.

It just adds to the drama and the sort of sphincter tightening that happens when

you enter this beach and you see this giant cliff over your head.

And then knowing that

waves can be kind of punishing,

it's all worth it if you're going to go out and catch waves.

But if I'm going to surf for an hour and a half and every wave that I fight for, I'm going to get that great feeling of that glide.

I just start to glide in and then somebody hear a whoo and I got to back out and then I back and then I wait again.

And the waves many times as they roll in, they lift and lift and lift and lift.

And this is a phenomenon of Black Speech.

I don't say it's particular, but it happens a lot of Blacks, where it lifts and lifts and lifts, and it doesn't break and doesn't break, it's steeper and steeper and steeper and bigger and bigger.

And then it finally breaks, and then you jump in, and it gives the competition plenty of time to line up and get position on you.

So I just find I'm backing off of waves more than I'm catching them.

There's other spots where we would be some of the better surfers, and I'd just catch more waves.

So that's the nature of the dispute here.

Okay, so the dispute is Miguel, you want to surf Black Speech almost exclusively.

And Jason, you'd like to go to some chumpier beaches where you're the kings, where you're the middle-aged kings.

Yes.

All right, I understand.

Yeah, you got it.

My name is Mr.

Speaker.

Let me ask you to say, Jason, that you just want to go to Raging Waters.

Is that correct?

You want to surf the boat ride at Legoland, California?

Is that

surf past that Sydney harbor made of Legos?

That's not too far from the truth for some of the spots I've been surfing.

You know, I know of a lazy river inside a former Zeppelin hangar in Germany

that you could visit.

Let me ask this specific question.

Miguel, Jason, is there anything else about Black's Beach that I should know?

It does have

an unusual feature.

It is a nude beach.

Here we go.

It's a well-known nude beach.

Well-known, yes.

Perfect for hanging a weapon.

I didn't say it.

Do

you surf in the nude, either of you?

I do not.

However, when I first started surfing there, I did witness a young man surfing in the nude on a soft-top surfboard.

And those boards are kind of rough.

And when you lie on your tummy and you jump up, I don't imagine all the skin is coming with you.

It looks very uncomfortable.

I can't imagine.

People like what they like, Jason.

My first, I had the immediate thought that surfing in the nude sounds perfect for the experience of surfing because of the like communing with the wave element.

It seemed like it would be great in the nude uh but i forgot about the fact that you have to lie on a surfboard that's covered in friction tape basically

yeah what do you what do you both wear when you go surfing you wear rash guards you wear wetsuits uh dry suits san diego chicken suits

dude they're wearing their baggies

wetsuit typically yeah yeah in in the summer boar shorts and uh like a wetsuit jacket or wetsuit top, if you will.

Right.

A couple months a year, you can trunk it.

A couple months a year, you can trunk it, Jesse.

That's what I always say, dude.

A couple months a year, you can trunk it.

Trunk it.

Bro, let's trunk it.

But Jason, the fact that this is a nude beach, does this affect this case?

These are distractions, Your Honor.

You know, the collapsing of the beach, the new beaches.

Those all actually occurred miles down from where we typically surf.

Oh.

Now, the collapsing could happen at our location very easily.

I recognize as a legitimate potential threat, you know, but super outlier.

That video is rare for a reason because it doesn't happen very often.

And as well, the nude beach, it is further down or further up north from where we surf typically.

So therefore, it's very, very rare that you would encounter surfers who are nude.

Personally, I've probably only encountered half a dozen surfers in the over, maybe, yes, nude

in

the decade plus that I've been surfing up on.

Jason is being a very good boy and raising his hand because he would like to object.

Go ahead, Jason.

The incidents of nudity are rare, but they are unforgettable when they happen.

Yeah.

It sounds like all of this really adds to what you described as the drama of Black Speech, that

there are these

safety issues, these colorful characters, these intense surfer dudes.

Are you not in it for the messy drama?

I've experienced the messy drama for going on eight years now,

six, seven, eight years.

Yeah, since I started surfing in this area.

And

I will surf there on occasion.

I will enjoy the messy drama on occasion.

I would acquiesce to that.

But while we're only surfing once a month, I don't want it to be my surface.

You don't want it to be full point break.

That's what I'm hearing.

I'm worried that you guys are going to have to dropkick a dog into

one of your enemies.

Is San Diego's surf scene messier than Hawaii?

Or is it kind of the same vibe?

I think they're pretty close.

You know, I think

you have to go, you know, when you're going to surf a certain spot, if it's going to, you're going to encounter localism.

So, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it's, you know, one is really much worse than the other.

They both have localism, you know, and if you want to avoid it, it's not very difficult.

And localism is, is this sort of chauvinistic practice of kicking out non-locals, however that's defined, or being mean to them.

And certain beaches are more localist than others.

Is that no matter where you are?

Okay, I got you.

Yeah.

Was that three months ago that I was physically threatened?

Were you physically threatened?

Yeah.

You didn't even know about Jason being physically threatened?

I was in the water.

And, you know, oh, there are ways to avoid this localism.

So, yes, I was in the water that day.

Tell me about the time you got bullied, Jason.

And physically threatened, even.

So we went to another spot, paddled out along the jetty.

A jetty is a pile of rocks, basically.

And then we paddled into the...

You think Judge John Odgen doesn't know what a jetty is?

Make a note.

I'm going to make a note of that.

Yeah, you said I was a sports guy.

I'm an art guy.

I'm more familiar with spiral jetty.

Yeah.

The legendary earthwork.

All right.

I know what a jetty is.

Okay, so you're over there by the jetty.

All right.

For the landlock listeners, all right.

There's a jetty.

We're paddling along these rocks.

Then you go into the lineup.

So we're to the, to the, to Miguel's point, we're to the left, and it's a, it's a left-breaking wave.

So we paddle, because you have to paddle through the lineup, we're paddling into position to be first to catch the wave.

These

middle-aged toughs, oh boy, if you want to call them

toughs, bullies, bad boys.

I do.

I want to call them those.

Took exception to our being in their vicinity.

And

I stood up for myself.

Miguel paddled away.

Wow.

Bad boy retreats.

Good boy takes a stand.

And

they threatened you, Jason.

What did they say to you?

Well, I won over them.

I'm going to point you in the eyes.

I feel like over a few moments, I won them over because I went to the end of the line, basically.

Then a wave very quickly came.

They all took the first wave and then they took the second wave and a third wave came.

By then, they were all gone.

And I had position all by myself on a beautiful wave.

And I caught a very nice wave in.

And I said, see, I'm abiding by the rules.

I know what I'm doing.

And then I sat, didn't have position again, and I waited 23 minutes.

Then another young, tough, young, older gentleman, tough, came and took exception again to the fact that I was there and I'd been waiting my turn.

I had stood up for myself again to another.

And this guy.

You raised your hand and you said, Excuse me, sir.

Pardon me.

Pardon me.

Let me adjust my glasses and explain to you what the law of the rule of the lineup is.

You said, Tell me, are you fluent in SQL?

Because we're seeking for a position that

I did you know I huh the way I defend them I humanize myself I let them know I'm a dad I'm just trying to surf on a weekend I have a job here I was an elementary school teacher at the time and I'm trying to be somebody for the community

and that didn't it just it didn't win them over this time didn't win them over exactly but it did diffuse the situation okay so and so there were no fisticuffs have you ever how how would you have fisticuffs in the water anyway that seems like a real

breach they'd say let's go to the beach Oh, they say, let's go to the beach?

That's the parking lot of surfing?

Meet you around

behind the library at 3 o'clock p.m.

Yeah, meet you at the dumpster.

When surf guys get in fights, do they wear their wetsuits?

Yes, it looks very, if you look at this online, it looks very silly.

This sounds miserable, honestly.

This is rare, Judge Hodgman.

This is rare.

You brought it up, Jason.

So what's the point?

If it's very rare, what's the point?

Where do you want to surf?

What paradise,

non-aggro place, do you want to surf?

There are a litany of other places we could surf, and Miguel is an expert on finding them.

So, if he were to present, say, Black's Beach and another option, given his

broad expertise in the area, he could choose Cardiff Reef, he could choose Swami's, he could choose the Boneyard just north of Suami's, D Street, 15th Street.

There's a

Grandview,

avocados,

tourmaline, there's old man's, there's pine nut, macadamia nut, tea nut,

hazelnut.

Why don't you want to go to any of those other places?

Why, Miguel, why is going to Black Speech more important to you than your friendship with Jason?

I would want to surf the best available waves on that day, right?

So if you look at the metrics of what makes a good day, you can look at Black Speech and they will typically be better than any of those other waves that Jason identified.

And so, when you talk about surfing in, you know,

a lake or something like that, that's essentially what he's surfing in in those days.

And if you, you know, want to pull up some of that evidence that I shared with a great producer there.

Yeah.

Now, I'm going to say right now that Miguel sent in some screenshots of some

looks like surf reports

with

various charts and graphs of surfing conditions.

And when you sent in

this homework for me to do,

I crumpled up my computer and threw it away.

Miguel, analytics are ruining the surfing game.

That's right.

What is it you're trying to show me in these surf reports?

Ultimately, if you compare where Jason claimed to be surfing that day and the condition, the same or the conditions at black's, that same day he was surfing, you can see that the waves are bigger at black's, the wind is lower, or there's less wind.

And those are two very key metrics for judging waves and expectations about waves.

So bigger waves, less wind, probably going to be more fun than small waves, lots of wind.

And that's essentially what you'll see.

On Friday, August the 9th of this year,

you're comparing side by side the wave height and wind

at Black's Beach versus Del Mar.

Del Mar is a...

a place where you would like to go surfing, Jason.

I surf there frequently.

Why is Del Mar your spot?

Well, it's I mean, when I look at these pathetic waves, I really have to wonder.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I mean, Black Speech is three to four feet.

Del Mar, two to three feet.

That's a foot less.

Yeah, why not just buy a bucket at the hardware store and flap your hand around in it?

Yeah, exactly.

Well, it's a place where I know I can go and catch some waves.

I went there the other day before work.

I surfed for 40 minutes.

I caught three nice little waves, and they were fun, and they were long.

I got bottom to top.

I went right on one, I went left on one.

It was 40 minutes well spent.

I felt like I had some fun and I was successful.

Last time I surfed with Miguel, we surfed 90 minutes at Black's

and we both caught closeouts.

I caught three closeouts, he caught two close-outs, and that's when it just dumps on the beach and just go straight.

That's no fun.

A closeout is no fun.

Closeout's no fun.

I don't know.

Have you ever been to Marshalls?

What would be your ideal surf session, Jason?

What you described, Del Mar?

Tell me.

Gosh, you know, one of the, one of the fun parts of surfing for me is, and it's a ritual, is you go and you stand on the shore together with your cup of coffee and you look out on the waves and you decide, are we going to surf here?

Together with your cup of coffee or your friend?

Together with your cup of coffee and together with your friend with this cup of coffee.

I think it's four of us with four cups.

So we all look out on the waves and we decided we're going to surf here.

Are we going to look for another spot?

Now you can get caught up in

looking until the time runs out.

You can't surf anymore.

I like that part of the ritual.

We show up, we stand there in our puffy coats, sip our coffee, look at it, decide, suit up together and go out.

So

if you're at Black's, you walk down about a quarter mile before you even see the waves.

So you're committed.

You're surfing there regardless of what the waves look like.

So I would surf at a place like Cardiff Reef,

a place like

Santaleo nut, pipes nut, cardiff reef nut.

Yeah, there's spots we haven't even surfed, like at Solana Beach.

There's some spots.

You're saying your favorite part of surfing

is before you even go in.

Yeah, that's part of it.

It's the chat.

It's the catch-up.

It's the hangout.

And then the suit up and then the paddle out and the hang.

Yeah.

Well, I would contend you actually get that at blacks even more because you have a longer walk.

You can actually, we can get into a conversation we can catch up with each other because in the water it is very difficult you want to be focused on catching waves when you're in the water so wherever you wherever we surf presumably we would not be engaged in super amount of conversation but that time of if the distance from our cars to the waves is too close well then that reduces our amount of time to chill so blacks you probably have a good 15 20 minute walk to get to the beach which is beautiful walk down a

jason wants jason wants to stand on the beach together with his coffee and his friend.

Doesn't want a 20-minute walk.

Why are you telling Jason what makes him happy?

Jason knows what makes him happy.

Just tell me what's wrong with Jason's dream.

Of surfing other spots than blacks.

Yeah, what's wrong with Jason's dream?

The waves are not as good.

And I would ask Jason, you know, what he thinks about the best waves that he's caught in San Diego.

Have they been when you've gone on your own or have they been

when we go?

And I make the decision.

Where is the most epic wave you have caught?

Top three epic waves in San Diego.

Okay,

yeah.

So Sunset Cliffs.

So I got to admit, Sunset Cliffs, I've caught incredibly epic waves at Sunset Cliffs.

I remember the whole thing to this day.

Miguel, Sunset Cliffs, what's wrong with that beach?

Is that a diarrhea beach?

Is that bad?

Bad beach?

No, nothing is wrong with sunset clips, but the conditions for sunset cliffs are much more rare.

than they are for good conditions like the blacks.

So if you were to compare the two, yeah, the best waves probably are at sights like cliffs in comparison to blacks, but the conditions for good and epic waves, if you will, are going to be more frequent at blacks than they will.

Yeah, but we know that you love black speech so much.

He doesn't love black speech.

This guy loves his model.

This guy loves

this guy loves looking at his sine waves and his.

I don't even notice these things.

They're like perfect examples of swell.

And like, that's true.

We're looking at

the neon art in the background of the studio there in San Diego.

It's beautiful.

All right, number two epic wave.

We heard number three epic wave, number two epic wave, Jason.

I got to admit that one of them is at blacks.

There we go.

I got to admit, one of them is at blacks.

Another was, let's say, Grandview.

Yeah, because I used to surf there a lot, and I got really, really lucky there.

I don't think.

You might have been there that day.

Yeah, Grandview's got a good wave.

Jason, you've raised your right hand a few times.

to indicate that you wanted to speak.

Would you do me a favor and raise both of your hands above your head?

And you two, Miguel?

I do not see that you are handcuffed together.

Why don't you just go, you may put your hands down, why don't you just go surf where you want to surf?

Well, I like my, I like surfing with my buddy.

Yeah.

I mean, I do surf by myself, but when I surf with Miguel, I want to surf a spot where I'm not just going to get,

you know, called off of waves the entire time I'm there.

How you mentioned that you are, you know, in your young middle age, let's say.

And Miguel, you're in your baby middle age.

How much longer do you feel your bodies can surf together?

I see guys out there in their 70s that rip on short holes.

I hope to, yeah, until I die.

It's a matter of frequency, and it can't be too frequent when you get a little older.

If you start feeling some aches and pains, you got to back off for a few weeks.

And that's how you get longevity and surfing.

So you still have a lot of surfing and friendship ahead of the both of you.

Oh, yes.

Got it.

Okay.

It says here, Jason, that your ideal ruling indeed is to alternate, to go to Black Speech one time and then another one of your bunny trail beaches

another time.

Why is that not acceptable?

That seems like a great compromise, Miguel.

Why is that not okay?

I think because you are ignoring the possibility of a great session at Blacks if the conditions are better.

You love Black Speech more than you love your friend.

Judge Hodgman, just say you want to listen to the model.

Listen to the model.

Listen to the stats.

Listen to the data.

You love your stats.

You love your data.

You love your charts and graphs.

And you love Black Speech more than you love your friend.

Isn't that right?

Turn to your friend right now and say, I love that beach more than you.

I would not say that.

I would not say that.

I don't love that beach more than you.

You don't have to say it.

Your actions show it.

I think I know what's better for him than oh, here we go.

You know, like a child who, you know, wants to touch the stove or wants to, you know, do something that is not safe for them or good for them.

He's your senior, Miguel, and and you're treating him like a gromlet?

What do you think he is?

Some kind of gromlet?

Yeah, you think he's some kind of grommet?

Sometimes he is.

Sometimes he is, unfortunately.

And I think I've shared this in our initial discussions.

One of the reasons around why I choose blacks is to regulate Jason because Jason has at times done the cardinal sin of dropping in on me personally and prevented me from being able to experience what he's describing as that epic.

When did Jason drop in on you?

Oh my goodness.

So many times Jason has dropped in on me and he just laughs when he does it, right?

He just laughs at me.

He doesn't say sorry or anything like that.

And going back to the in the going back to like how we will analyze waves, how we will look at waves, how we will position ourselves to catch waves, Jason will sit right to the left of me or right of me, whichever is the more priority positioned so that he can catch the waves that I personally kind of identified as like, hey, this is the spot.

Because when it comes to being in the water, the lineups, especially at Black's, which makes it so great, there can be multiple lineups in a certain break.

So at Black's, you have probably three or four lineups within a certain area.

For those of you who aren't watching the YouTube and are just listening, Miguel has brought out a whiteboard

and is putting up

a bunch of magnets and index cards and connecting them with yarn at this point.

Jason, are you secretly the bad boy of surfing?

I thought you were the good boy of surfing, but now it turns out you're the bad boy.

You're sniping other people's waves and you're dropping in on your friend.

You know, we surf with a lot of people who have, who learned when they were gromblets when they were seven, eight years old, right?

And they've been surfing their whole lives.

I started surfing at 34 years old.

So I had to

put up with kids seven years old, saying, I go, uncle, and then have them position and go on me.

Anyway, so I learned over time, but I will, I will admit, in a future, did you learn exactly how to steal a wave from a seven-year-old?

What?

No, I learned to back off.

You learned to love seven-year-olds.

No, Groblets dominated me for years.

And so

I will admit, when I was early surfing, I leaned on Miguel heavily to figure out where to be to catch waves because he started well ahead of me.

Now, I think he's hanging on to a very old narrative.

I haven't dropped in on Miguel like that in many years.

It's been many years since I've dropped in on Miguel like that.

Why do you think he's remembering?

Why do you think he's bringing it up now?

I think he's just trying to win win an argument i think i've heard everything i need to in order to make my decision i'll be back in a moment with my verdict please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom um miguel how are you feeling about your chances in this case right now have you uh beaten some sense into your best friend

i feel okay you know but judge is judge and i will abide by his ruling And but I think at the end of the day, that, you know, my understanding of where the best places to surf on any any given Saturday, I value that time just as much as Jason.

Jason makes it sound like I don't care about catching waves.

And I very much care about catching waves.

I just kind of want to catch very good waves.

And so that's why I, you know, maybe persuade with a lot of influence and using that data to say, hey, let's go to blacks.

Because oftentimes all of those metrics lead to blacks.

Jason, how are you feeling?

I'm feeling pretty good.

I think I made a pretty good case.

And what I'm asking for is reasonable.

I don't think it's

a big ask to go to a different spot.

And if Miguel is so good at his charts, I'd feel like rather than picking the obvious choice that everybody is aware of, he would use his charts and graphs to find a rarefied spot where we show up and nobody's there.

Have you guys ever heard, John, I'm including you in this, have you guys ever heard

the story of

the time my dad had an incident on the beach in Hawaii?

No.

Okay, well, this is only for, this is a video exclusive.

This is a video shorts exclusive.

So go to the YouTube if you're listening to the audio.

If you're listening to the audio, we'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's verdict.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case, and we have some amazing holiday stuff in the MaxFun store at maxfundstore.com, including, among other things, the triumphant return of our Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage t-shirts, which is incredible, John, because as I understand it, they don't even have Christmas in Canada.

Strange, strange but true.

Yes, tis the season for generosity.

And indeed, the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage t-shirt, still one of the greatest fan favorites of all time.

And it's back for a limited time, along with the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage Beverage Koozie, a brand new product over there in the Max Fun store in standard can size and Slim Can, which I think is what they have in Canada.

And Jesse Thorne, we have some weird dad merch, but also some new merch, right?

In the weird department?

Weird mom merch.

You can get our weird mom or weird dad logo designed by the legendary Aaron Draplin now on Unisex Tees, on ladies' teas, and on bumper stickers, all at maxfundstore.com.

Stick your bumps with a weird dad or weird mom sticker.

By the way, you mentioned Aaron Draplin, and we both mentioned Canada.

Aaron's from Portland, Oregon.

Are we doing a show in Portland next year?

We absolutely are.

Are we doing a show in Canada, in Vancouver, for the first time in a number of years?

Yes, we are.

And if your favorite Judge Sean Hodgman listener is in either of those places and enjoys experiences, we have a great idea.

Give them a ticket to see us live on tour in Portland, Oregon, Vancouver, British Columbia, or Seattle, Washington.

Unfortunately, Los Angeles is sold out, but there are still tickets available at San Francisco Sketchfest in San Francisco as well.

You can get these tickets at maximumfund.org/slash events right now for you or someone you love.

Maximumfund.org/slash events.

And I want to remind you that if you're looking for a really special gift this holiday season, you can check out my antique and vintage store, the Put This On Shop at putthison Shop.com.

Not only do we have our ordinary array of antique home goods and jewelry for men and women, and beautiful handmade pocket squares, and so on and so forth, vintage clothing, all kinds of beautiful things.

We also have some new products handmade in the shop right now.

We have some incredible, what we're calling our Japanese selvage-to-selvage scarves, which are made from narrow gauge woven.

vintage Japanese textiles.

There's a few different ones with hand-finished ends that are just absolutely breathtakingly beautiful.

And our Put This On ball caps are back.

We have a few different designs, including the Dad caps, which have been very popular in a few new colorways.

This is literally a cap that says D-A-D on it, Dad.

It's really hot.

Yeah, it is.

And we have our New York and California hats, which feature the outlines of those great states.

Those might be my favorites we've ever made.

And our classic Put This On ball cap, which has been gone for many years, but is a simple white star on a blue background for

when you want to wear a ball cap that goes with everything.

Those are all handmade in the United States by a human being with soft leather sweatbands and real wool flannel and leather size adjusters.

Just really beautiful pieces that you'll have for many, many years.

And indeed,

One of the reasons that I brought them back is because my friend Brian Fernandez was telling me that he wore his hat every day for for like eight years and it was finally starting to tatter.

He said, can you please make them again so that I can buy one?

So I said, yes, you can find all that stuff online at putthisonshop.com.

And if you use the code Justice,

all the small stuff in the store ships for free in the United States.

I love putthisonshop.com.

It's a great place to get gifts, especially.

for the people that you think have everything, but you didn't realize they needed a 1940s white floral metal drink tray or a poodle print rayon Pocket Square.

Unfortunately, you can't get 1989 Topps Batman second series trading cards there, right, Jesse?

Those are not available at putthisonshop.com?

I believe we do have those as well as Rad Dudes trading cards.

Well, then there you go.

PutTisonShop.com, MaxFundstore.com, MaxmanFund.org/slash events.

Click on all of those links when you're thinking about being generous this holiday and buying gifts.

And thank you.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom, having heard my story about my dad on the beach in Hawaii and the 12 huge men judging whether he should live or die, and told his story about Vincent D'Onofrio and the lemonade stand and presents his verdict.

Given my story away there.

All right.

Not much more to it than that.

In any case,

you may be seated, Miguel and Jason.

First of all, thank you very much for this

education on surfing.

I've learned a lot.

And two things I've learned is I definitely want to go to Hawaii.

I've always wanted to go and I've never gone and I really need to go there.

And one thing about my visit to Hawaii is I will not go surfing.

I had no idea how rough and tumble this was.

I thought surfing was chilled out.

I thought it was this peaceful, you know, I don't love sports, but I have an affection for those sports that are part of obsessive personal perfection, the solo sports where you are lifting a weight

or walking a distance or

biking.

And I thought surfing was this meditative, calm thing.

I didn't know that you were going to be doinged left and right and have your eyes gouged out and people hold you under the water and seven-year-old gromlets.

dancing on your head and giving you beach diarrhea and then you get buried underneath a bluff collapse.

It's too much, too competitive.

I didn't realize how competitive surfing was and

I'm never going to do it.

I'm sorry.

I mean, I admire both of you, not only for doing it, but also learning it relatively late in your lives, at least in Jason's case, and continuing to do it.

I don't think my body would be able to tolerate it.

And I'm glad because I don't, I like having my eyes and I like not pooping on the beach.

So there you go.

But I'm very glad that you two continue to surf.

And I'm glad that you get so much pleasure out of it, but you get a different kind of pleasure.

My wife, who is a whole human being in her own right, has a sister who is also a whole human being in her own right.

And they have two different, an older sister, and they have two different, she also has a younger sister, but that's not part of the story.

She and her older sister have two different ways of looking at the world, which

my wife has termed as being one of them.

And this is a common term, if you look it up, it's a psychological term.

It's maximizer versus satisficer.

And a maximizer personality is someone who basically wants to catch the best waves and will wait and wait and wait and do a lot of research until they determine which is the maximal wave to catch.

Whereas a satisfier just wants satisfying waves and will not do all of that research, but instead be satisfied, right, with

whatever comes their way.

In my wife and her sister's world, my wife is more of a satisficer in terms of all kinds of life choices.

I had never heard this term before until my wife, as a whole human being in her own right, spelled it out for me.

And

I think it makes a lot of sense

in terms of how people understand themselves in the world and how you guys might understand each other's relationship and your individual personalities.

It makes a lot of sense, even though satisfying is not a word.

And it makes me really mad every time I hear it and say it.

Maximizer is a word.

You are one, Miguel.

And I hate to say it, Jason, but you're a satisficer, which is not a word.

It doesn't even sound good.

It doesn't even sound, it's not even, shouldn't even, I mean, English is a living language, but this one should not be allowed.

But I mean, it speaks to the problem that you are facing as you go forward in your lives.

As your friendship and your bodies mature and you have less time to spend surfing together, it is understandable that you would deal with that reduced surfing time differently, that you, Miguel, will use your charts and graphs trying to maximize your surfing experience, whereas

you, Jason,

are more of a satisficer.

You want to spend that limited time getting as much surfing in as possible.

And both approaches are correct.

And yet they are not, they are essentially mutually exclusive in terms of the experience that you like.

You can't, you know, when Jason said, I like standing on the beach with my friend having coffee and not surfing almost as much as I like surfing.

And you're like, well, there's a 20-minute walk to Black Speech.

That's not what he likes.

Respect the fact that you are different and you're never going to get the exact same kind of pleasure from surfing.

And you should be able to

make a chart and figure out how to satisfy or maximize both of your experiences, which is to say, your friends, Miguel, you got to compromise.

It can't just be Black Speech every time.

You can go to Black Speech on your own and have that experience, that maximal experience that you like.

And Jason can go to Bunny Trail Beach or whatever it is

and float around in the little limpid waves

and be satisfied by that individually.

But if you're going to be together, you're going to have to trade off.

I'm sorry.

That's just the way it is.

And I was just going to go ahead and rule in Jason's favor, but Jason actually presented an even better solution, which is that you use your charts and graphs for good.

If you're doing the research,

find a beach that is not black speech every other time

that has the kind of waves you want, or at least the potential for it.

Maximize your non-black speech experience

by going to your charts and graphs.

But

you have to alternate back and forth every now and then.

I know what a jetty is.

This is the sound of a gavel

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Miguel, how are you feeling?

I can live with it, you know?

I'm okay.

I think that's a good point, actually.

I really ever considered maximizing for another spot just because I just, I do have that much faith in Black Speech, but I can live with it.

You have that much faith.

For my buddy, for my buddy, my good buddy that I love so much.

Jason, how do you feel?

I feel great.

This is great.

I mean, Miguel really is good at prognosticating, and I'd love to see him apply that and actually find some spots where it's good and not crowded.

Jason, Miguel, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We're going to have Swift Justice in just a second.

First, our thanks to Redditor Banjo Solo, who named this week's episode.

If you want to name a future episode, join us on Reddit at maximumfun.reddit.com.

That's where we ask for our title suggestions.

And it's fun even just to see them.

They're always very fun.

Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram account at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

And of course, on the episode page for this episode at maximumfun.org.

You can find find us on TikTok and YouTube at JudgeJohn Hodgman Hod, including Judge John Hodgman's story about Vincent D'Onofrio and my story about my dad's drug-induced psychosis.

Let me just tell you, one of these stories is not like the other.

Because one of these stories is unlike anything I've ever heard before in my life.

Follow and subscribe.

You can also see the like the nice neon waves that were behind our litigants this week at their studio in San Diego.

Thanks.

Do we got anybody up on the Apple podcasts this week?

We do.

I want to thank JDG Instagrams.

That's JDG Instagram Z over on Apple Podcast for the lovely review and, I dare say, five-star rating.

JD Instagrams says, listening to this on 11-6, 2024.

Necessary serotonin boost on a bleak day.

Snorted out loud.

Thank you.

Thank you, JD Instagrams.

You know, it is not only our pleasure and privilege to keep you company and offer you distraction during bleak times, but frankly, you offer us distraction and keep us company too.

So I'm grateful.

And if you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, why not go over there and leave a few nice words if you like it?

Maybe even give us a five-star review.

If you think we've done the job, you can do the same over at Pocketcasts now.

Or you can comment on this episode on Spotify or leave a comment on YouTube at youtube.com/slash at judgejohnhodgman pod.

Your likes, your shares, your subscribes, all of your ratings and comments, all of this stuff helps listeners find the show.

So if you're enjoying this episode, make sure to tell a friend about it any way you can.

I love to hear from somebody who says, I started listening to Judge John Hodgman because my pal told me it was good.

Tell a pal.

Your pal needs a nice new comedy podcast to listen to.

Tell him to check out Judge John Hodgman.

We go Webby award winners.

You just lead with that.

Hey, have you ever, ever, do you like Webby award winners?

You can say everyone does.

Everyone loves a Webby award winner.

Everybody does.

Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode engineered by Brian Stamp at Signature Sound in San Diego, California.

Hey, John, you know, our friend, San Francisco comedian Scott Simpson?

I do.

Very, very funny man.

Very funny guy.

Good guy.

Years ago, Scott guested on an episode of Jordan Jesse Go that we recorded live on stage at san diego comic-con very famous comic-con very famous comic con uh we ended up uh having our mics cut and getting escorted off stage

whoa it was it was a whole thing but uh before we were escorted on stage scott said the uh my favorite thing that anyone's ever said about san diego uh which is did you did you know what the uh the town sigil is what the uh crest is the city crest for the city of san Diego?

Oh, no.

I mean, I don't know.

Maybe a submarine?

It's a volleyball with a flip-flop rampant.

Okay.

Scott Simpson, everybody.

Look him up.

Scott Simpson.

Our social media manager, Natty Lopez, the podcast edited by A.J.

McKeon.

Our video producer, Daniel Speer.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice.

Small disputes and quick judgment.

Turducken Everest on the maximum fund subreddit asks, My wife gets very upset with the first tiny ding we get in a new car.

I find it liberating.

From that point forward, I don't worry so much about where I park the car.

Should I care more or should she care less?

Well,

you and your wife, Turducken Everest, are also facing a maximizer versus satisficer

discrepancy in how you process distress in your life.

I hate that ding.

That initial ding really hurts.

I haven't owned a lot of cars in my life, but when something happens to it, it used to send me into a very, very

deep soul hole for a long time because you feel like this perfect thing that I have maximized is no longer perfect anymore.

Whereas you are more of a satisfy.

So you're like, great, it was going to happen anyway.

And just the life comes at you and sometimes you get dinged.

I'm glad to say that I have moved more in your direction, Truduck and Everest, in that I do believe that life comes at you and you get dinged.

And it's good to be able to breathe through it.

But that isn't to discredit the way that your wife feels.

If your wife feels that way, it's not a question of who should care more or less.

You're going to care exactly as much as you are ever going to care.

And you might have a very different temperamental difference around that.

And each way is equally good.

And you can't really change it, but you can learn how to tolerate that distress a little bit more effectively.

And for that, I would recommend looking up dialectical behavioral therapy online and looking at their distress tolerance skills.

They help me a lot in life and with regard to car ownership and even with regards to catastrophic world events.

So I'll leave you with that.

Judge Hoshman, I got to tell you this.

I had never had a new car until I bought a Volvo station wagon about maybe six years ago, something like that.

I've since sold it.

Well, because it got that one ding and you couldn't look at it anymore.

It had a couple of little dings.

I mean, I park on the street in the city.

Yeah.

Dings are going to happen.

It had a few things.

Dings are going to happen.

But you know what?

Maybe three years, four years into me owning the car, I was looking at these dings and I was like, there's got to be a guy.

I got a guy, John.

I got a good paintless guy and I had him come out.

There was one ding that was particularly unpleasant.

And I said, what if you just did all of them?

Could I give you an extra hundred bucks and you just do all of them, all these little ding-dongs?

And he said, yeah, sure.

I'm already here.

Oh, you got to get a paintless guy.

Paintless PDR, paintless dent removal.

Get a guy.

He comes out to your house.

you give him your $300, and then he just fixes it all.

Oh, it's such a dream.

Traduckin, write down these six letters, PDR for paintless dent removal and DBT for dialectical behavioral therapy.

With those six letters, I think you and your wife will be able to confront a lot of distress in your life.

Hey, speaking of distress, it's December and it's dark at four o'clock in the afternoon now.

It's dark and it's cold.

It's getting to be wintertime.

You're probably staying inside with other people.

When you are wrapped with other people in a cabin in the woods, things tend to happen.

Demons come out or you just start fighting with each other.

What are some of your deep, dark, cold wintertime disputes that we can settle for you?

Did your friend promise to knit you a hat last year and you still haven't seen it?

Is your partner trying to turn up the heat, even though you think they should really just put on a sweater?

Did your roommates veto the 2005 film The Family Stone for your upcoming movie night?

Again, again?

They wanted to watch Home for the Holidays.

Home for the Holidays.

Does your daughter, who's a whole human being in your own right, is she going to force you to watch Love Actually again?

No.

Again?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, boy.

It's a whole thing.

If you've got winter-related disputes, send them to me and Jesse and Jennifer and the whole J squad at maximumfund.org slash JJ H.

O.

That URL again, maximumfund.org slash JJ H.

O.

No matter what the dispute is about, it is the lifeblood of our program.

So go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO and submit it to us right now.

And John,

no matter who you are out there in the Judge John Hodgman listening audience right now, and I extend this to Jen and Daniel, AJ listening, to John, you yourself.

May the 12 huge men representing every race of the world judge that you deserve to live.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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