Live From Van Freaks Roadshow in Charlottesville, VA

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne, and with me, Judge John Hodgman.

Spooky days,

spooky night,

Halloween.

It is the day, it is Halloween Eve.

And we have a very spooky episode for you.

And in fact, it was recorded live on Halloween itself in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Oh, yeah.

A live show on Halloween during the Van Freaks Road Show.

We heard a very scary case about a cursed ceramic pineapple.

And we were joined for a special spooky cereal taste test with our friend Jamel Bowie from the New York Times.

What a thrill to have Jamel on stage.

And I had completely forgotten about that scary pineapple.

It's really spooky.

Judge Hodgman, can I tell you something that is related to this episode?

You may, of course.

You may remember that

when we were standing outside the theater in Charlottesville, Virginia.

The beautiful Paramount Theater.

We saw two local students

say that they were college students, local college students, dressed as Coraline

from the movie Coraline.

Yep.

Now, it just so happens that my friend John was one of the stars of the movie Coraline.

I played the father and the other father in Coraline, yes.

And

you were not going to say anything.

No.

But I tried to say something.

Yes.

And they were not interested.

They were not having it.

They ran away from you, and so they should.

But let me say this, John.

Two young people in college being yelled at by older guys with mustaches outside a theater going, he was in Coraline.

I'd run too.

But let me say this, John.

Yeah.

A few days ago, I was at the veterinarian.

Uh-huh.

TLC Pet Medical in South Pasadena, California.

Shout out.

Coraline was playing on the television in the lobby.

I said to the woman, oh, is that Coraline?

It's been a while since I've seen it.

She said, yes.

I said, oh, my

comedy partner is one of the actors in that movie.

Your comedy partner, Terry Hatcher.

Yeah.

Told her about how we saw those Coralines one time in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Yeah.

Anyway, the lady at the veterinarian, I want you to know, extremely impressed.

Extremely.

She was she was, as they say, squeeing that I knew someone because she loves Coraline so much.

She was over the moon that I knew someone from Coraline.

I'm not, look, I am very proud to be a part of a movie that I love so much.

It's Coraline, especially since I know that it is a movie that a lot of people really love.

And I believe that it's it's getting a limited release in theaters right now for Halloween.

If you haven't seen it, go see it.

It's pretty scary, but it's really great.

So it's not that.

But

I love being associated with Coraline.

I don't love accosting people on the street.

But that said, we had a really, really fun time at the Paramount Theater in Charlottesville.

And as you listen to this show, I want you to imagine how much fun we had in the theater and then realize there's a lot of fun we had in that theater that you don't even get to hear on the podcast.

You can only hear it when you come and see it for that matter and witness it and experience it when you actually come and see us at a live show.

So I'll just quickly remind you: we're days away from our next live show in Burlington, Vermont.

And then after that, we're in Portland, Maine.

Please go and get your tickets now because our Massachusetts shows are sold out.

Go to maximumfund.org/slash events.

We'll tell you a little bit more about those shows coming up.

But in the meantime, shall we go to the stage?

Indeed.

Let's go to the stage of the Paramount Theater in Charlottesville, Virginia.

People of Charlottesville, Virginia, you asked us for live justice and we are here to deliver it.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Laura and Maggie.

Laura brings the case against her daughter, Maggie.

Laura Laura made a piggy bank in the shape of a pineapple as a gift for her daughter.

Maggie doesn't want it.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

I have

a pen!

I have

an apple

I have

an apple

I have a

pen

I have it always goes on so pineapple

i have a pineapple pen

pineapple pen always i think it's done and then it starts again

apple pen

oh my gracious

pen pineapple apple

I love the guy, but it's been every stop on the tour of this.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Laura and Maggie, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he ain't never made nothing for me?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Laura and Maggie, you may be seated for an immediate summary.

First of all, would you like some candy, some Halloween candy?

Oh, of course.

What do you say?

Please.

Oh, trick-or-treat.

Thank you.

What are you dressed as tonight?

I am the,

what's it called?

An alien from the end of Rocky Horror.

You had to look to your mom because she made you watch that movie, correct?

No, it was actually a club event on campus.

Oh, wow.

I couldn't remember the word alien.

It's going to be a great night.

I don't want to.

What kind of candy did you get?

A black jelly bean?

I got a black jelly bean?

I'm a very adventurous.

Good.

Mom, would you like a black jelly bean?

No, I'm going to stick with the Mary Jane.

All right, and what are you dressed as?

I am Captain Battelle from Star Trek's Strange New Worlds.

Fantastic.

A wonderful show.

A cultural reference that I get.

Now, for an immediate summary judgement...

Rudgment.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom?

I'll give you a hint.

I am

on purpose annoying Jesse by singing in the mode of Tom Waits every stop on this tour.

Does that mean that this is a Tom Waits song?

I don't know.

Why don't you guess?

Laura, you guessed first.

Oh, well, my only guess was that it sounds like your Tom Waits impression that I've heard.

Good guess.

I don't know any Tom Waits songs.

You don't know any Tom Waits song?

No,

I have nothing.

Maggie, what is your guess?

I do know that it was a viral song.

But that is all I know.

It is.

Well, all guesses were close enough to be a tie, so we have to to hear the case anyway.

But it was the 2016 viral song and video called Pen, Pineapple, Apple, Pen, performed by Japanese comedian under the name of Pikataro.

And it has more than like 650 million views.

I've never heard of it.

I sang you all of the lyrics, and I want to know what I'm doing with my life.

But in the meantime, I did sing it in the style of Tom Waits to trick slash annoy Jesse.

So neither of you are quite right, but you are closer.

I'll give you a 5% head start on this case.

The honest truth, Judge Hodgman, is it's pretty incredible how credible a Tom Waits song, a song by a Japanese viral comedian is.

It's a great, it's a great song.

Maybe I'll go viral.

Just if you just throw enough nonsense nouns into a song.

It's good.

It's a good song.

Anyway, now we're going to hear the case.

So who comes to this court to seek justice from me?

I do.

And you are Laura?

Yes.

Laura, what is the nature of your dispute?

So Maggie's younger sister and I painted a pineapple-shaped piggy bank for her several years ago and Maggie doesn't want it because she thinks it's scary.

Ah,

it's scary.

Yes.

Why are you scared of the piggy bank?

Because of the eyes that it has.

Do they follow you around the room?

Not quite, but just their presence and even not gazing at you is quite disturbing.

I noticed that Laura, your mother, is holding a shoebox in her lap.

She is.

That you keep eyeing suspiciously and warily, as though something might be inside of it that scares you.

Yeah, something I might not want to have in my room.

Okay.

Is the piggy bank in that box?

It is.

Would you like to see?

May I take a look?

No, it's fine.

Aha.

May I show it to the crowd?

Of course.

It's adorable.

Right?

You painted it, but you did not make this.

No.

You did not sculpt it.

No.

Let the record show for the folks at home, and we will show a picture of this on our show page and so forth.

It is a smiling pineapple with bright shining eyes.

painted pineapple yellow and with a little green hat on, which is its leaves or whatever.

And you find it very scary, don't you?

Yeah, I don't really like being near it.

No?

No.

Do you want to hold it just for a moment?

Sure.

Okay.

I'll take it away now.

Thank you.

You seem to be a little alarmed, but you were able to handle it for a little bit of time.

Yeah, small increments.

May I put it over here so it can stare at you throughout the entire case?

Oh, of course.

Terrific.

Let me just line up its eyes with your eyes.

Is that about right?

Yep, direct eye contact.

A little bit closer.

All right, so when did you give the piggy bank to your daughter?

I would say about five years ago.

Yeah, five years ago.

I think it was just after you visited a carnival in a horror movie.

I don't know why we had it.

I think it was part of a craft kit, and Maggie was away for about six weeks over the summer, and we made it for her while she was gone.

And you heard like a voice going, paint me.

Paint me for your daughter.

I do think it's interesting it mysteriously appeared in our house somehow.

Did the craft kit mysteriously appear in the house?

We don't remember how we got it.

Oh, no.

Who's the we in this case?

Your other daughter?

Yes.

And you all live at home together.

Yes.

I understand.

And you don't remember where it came from?

Probably a gift from somebody.

Hmm, interesting.

Was it just like Maggie's little sister was bored and you're like, well, but look in the nightmare fruit closet.

And so have you always hated it when it was presented to you?

I'm sure I politely accepted it when I was given it upon my return home, but I have never had fond feelings

for this peeving.

I noticed that it's empty.

You've never put anything in there.

No change has ever been in that peeving.

No, I see.

And where has it lived these past several years?

So far.

Aside from inside your head.

For a while, it was on my bookshelf.

And then recently, for the past three years, it's been hidden behind things on top of a bookshelf

for so long that I thought I had

destroyed it.

You know that only makes it angrier, though.

I know.

Upon rediscovery, I was more scared.

Yeah.

But I was cleaning, I think, the past couple months, and we rediscovered it.

My mom was very relieved because she would have been upset if it had left the house.

You would be upset if this pineapple left the house, Laura?

I would, well, not if she moved out and wanted to take it with her.

I would be upset if she got rid of it.

Why?

Well, because

she doesn't like it.

And it scares her.

And yet it has become her burden.

Is it the case that if she were to get rid of it, then it would have revenge upon you?

Have you made a

sick devil's pact with this demon spawn or what?

I think it's cute, and it's an expression of love from her little sister and me.

Well, of course it's an expression of love, but she hates it.

I don't know, of course it's an expression of love.

It strikes me as possibly an expression of contempt.

I think it's pretty clear.

You appreciate this as an expression of love, don't you, Maggie?

Yes, I appreciate it's not an act of hate.

No.

No, it was

though it frightens you and terrorizes you every day.

It was not meant.

It was not, the intention was not.

Yeah, the thought is there.

The thought, yes, the thought that counts.

Now that you have revealed that you dislike it and in fact terrifies you,

why don't you just throw it away?

Well, because it's like when you get like clothes you don't want to wear from your grandma or something.

Like it's a gift you feel like you need to keep to.

How does it feel as a mother

to have your gift of a haunted pineapple compared to clothes you don't want from your grandmother?

Yeah.

That would make me hurt if my child said that.

Considering I painted that with love.

Okay.

I feel like you're really hamming it up for court reasons.

Have you ever done anything besides hiding it to make it less scary?

On the bottom, there should be eyelids that my mom made for it.

On the bottom of the pioneer should be fine.

I tried to give it eyelids to make the eyes less scary.

Oh, I see.

It looks like two yellow pieces of like post-it note.

Yeah, they're yellow stickers that I cut into eyelid shapes.

It doesn't help.

Very crafty.

Jesse,

would you put the eyelids on that pineapple and I'll take a look and see if it helps?

I mean, I hate the idea of underneath eyelids so much.

I don't like them more as eyelids either.

But you dropped one of his lids.

I think it's worse.

Yes, it is worse.

It's so much worse.

Let me see.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Now he looks like a white dude in San Diego going, no bueno.

Yeah.

Dude, you're putting change in me?

Yeah, now this haunted doll looks like it's stoned out of its mind.

Yeah.

That doesn't make it better.

No, it doesn't.

When did you make the eyelids?

Maybe a month ago?

Yeah, whenever it was rediscovered on my bookshelf.

Yeah, when I learned that Maggie had hidden it and that it was because of the eyes, I thought maybe the...

clearly not, but I thought the eyelids eyelids would help.

How did you feel when it was missing, Laura?

Well, I didn't really, Maggie has a lot of stuff on her bookshelves, so it's not something that I would automatically clock as missing.

So I didn't really know that it had been hidden until she revealed it again.

Sure.

And I think I was kind of outraged and said, why have you been hiding that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

When the pineapple was missing and your daughter for once was at peace in her life,

you didn't happen to notice even even a change.

It just seemed like, oh, this is nice that my daughter is happy for once.

It's not as though you knew that the pineapple was gone.

You were able to move on with your life, and the pineapple was not part of it.

Yeah, and I trusted...

So why shouldn't I smash it on stage?

Wow.

You understand that if I rule in your favor, Maggie, I will be smashing it on stage.

You might release the spirit, but

it's a blessing.

I'm willing to take that.

Believe me, I have battled many major and minor arcana.

No demon can fight the power of sexy podcast host.

You make a fair point.

I will absorb that creature and I will spit it out later.

Laura, when you and Maggie's sister made this and gave it to Maggie initially, Did you give it to her because you thought she would like it?

I think we gave it to her.

And be honest.

Yeah,

I think we gave it to her as look at what we made while you were away because we missed you, more than evaluating the aesthetics of it.

And well, you certainly didn't evaluate the aesthetics.

If you had evaluated, you may have mis-evaluated the aesthetics.

I will stop impugning your motives or your taste.

Okay.

Obviously, you know, you didn't realize that this was a horror spawn.

You did want to do something nice.

Remind me

where Maggie was when she came back.

She was away at a residential summer fine arts program.

Right, okay.

Had been away for a while.

You missed her.

How old was she at that time?

17?

17?

Yeah.

Still, you know, you were getting ready to say goodbye to one of your babies.

Yes.

Because now Maggie is an adult.

Yes.

And you gave her a fairly juvenile gift.

I presume to, like all parents wish to do, trap her in childhood forever and not allow her to mature.

Exactly.

Right.

Honestly, I feel I've aged 10 years just from having to look at it.

But does it have a name, by the way?

No.

Does it have a name, Laura?

Maggie says no, but.

I give things names, so I was calling it Piney, but it's not very creative.

Oh, yes.

Your mother has a relationship with this that goes deeper than you realize.

I didn't.

I know.

This is a totem to your youth.

There's one thing she's trying to save in here, and it's not quarters.

It's your childhood.

My youthful spirit.

Your youthful spirit.

She's trying to trap you in this piney.

Maybe that's why you reject it.

Because you are older now.

You are an adult.

You still live at home, as many adults do, but you're not a 17-year-old anymore coming back from summer camp.

You're an adult person who wants to smash a pineapple.

Yeah, many adults do.

Laura, when you contemplate, let's leave the smashing out of this for a moment.

When you contemplate this going into the trash or going out of your lives in some way, how does that make you feel?

I would be sad if we had to get rid of it completely.

Go on.

What would it mean to you?

What would it represent?

Well, I like the

feelings.

Piney, open your eyes.

Yeah, both at once is better.

Dude, you ripped my lids.

You can also give him angry eyes.

That's exciting.

Okay, yeah, I'll work on that.

All right.

I would feel disappointed because I think that he could become a valuable family heirloom that is passed down to future generations.

Like if you filled him with something valuable?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Many, many gold coins.

I could encase him in resin.

Piney is angry now.

Piney doesn't like to be judged based on his wealth.

Based on his monetary value.

He likes to be judged based on his emotional value.

You really want to pass this down to

another generation?

Yeah, I really would.

You have a younger daughter.

Why don't you curse her with it?

Well, she helped make it for her sister.

Where is she, by the way?

We've never seen her.

But she did send

a sealed brief to bring to the court, and we don't know what it says.

She sent a sealed brief?

Yes.

I have it right here.

And it's in the shoebox as well?

We don't know what she wrote.

Oh.

Now, here's a quick question.

Maybe this wasn't meant to be seen by the eyes of humans.

I mean, before I open this envelope, if I open this, is my face going to melt like Ray as a Lost Ark?

Not unless she has powers I'm unaware of.

Yeah, Yeah, you're right.

Since I'm holding this microphone in one hand, Jesse, you do it.

Okay.

Maggie should keep the pineapple because we all worked very hard on it and it's a symbol of our love.

She doesn't need to display it prominently, but she shouldn't hide it behind books on her shelf or tuck it away in her closet.

Maybe she can just have the eyes peeking out somewhere.

Or she could place it in a corner of her room that not many people see when they first enter.

In any case, I believe the the pineapple should not be thrown away or hidden.

Its youthful eyes and friendly smile will serve as encouragement to Maggie and will be a bright reminder of our love for her.

Also, please, Mr.

Judge John Hodgman, Your Honor, tell Maggie to stop mocking me whenever I speak.

Thank you.

P.S.

I liked you in community.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Piney and I are going to go into Mike Chambers and we're going to talk it over.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Maggie, how are you feeling about your chances here?

Worse now that the letter from my sister has been read and she's appealed to flattery.

Were you expecting something else from your sister?

No, I do think the answer would be different if I asked her if she would put the pineapple in her room.

I think it's more that I have the burden, as Judge John Hodgman put it.

I feel like from reading that letter that your sister knows the pineapple's dark power

in a way that maybe your mom doesn't.

Laura, how are you feeling about your chances?

Well, I think the letter definitely helped, but I am also

not sure that the judge is going to try to force something on Maggie that she doesn't want.

Yeah, you did kind of get zagged on in the first half of this.

Maybe a little bit.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

While I was in my chambers, Piney and I were talking.

Piney has gone into a trance, as you can see,

and has asked if

Because it cannot speak human language, has asked if it can communicate through me.

Do you mind?

This may be disturbing.

It's been some time since I've channeled an entity.

And it is Halloween after all, so the vibrations may be very strong.

So while Piney is sleeping, I will attempt to make contact with the entity known as Piney.

No, not you, Tom.

Wait, it's Piney.

Let the record reflect that Piney's face has occupied the judges.

Hey, Laura.

Hey, Piney.

Thanks for bringing me to life.

You're welcome.

It was quite a day when you fainted me

with the other daughter whose name I forget.

Before you, I was just an idea.

I was nothing.

Just an entity 10 million years old.

Trapped in an ice flow in Antarctica.

Until you gave me shape and form in the shape of a pineapple.

Ironic, isn't it?

There's no fruit in Antarctica where I sleep among the old gods.

Anyway, a lot of my cousins want to come back to life and reclaim this earth and this dimension for themselves.

But you know me, Laura, I don't want that.

I just want a home.

I'd love to be in a home that loves me and doesn't hate me.

I can't even blink.

Where's Maggie?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, God.

I hate how it walks.

Hi, Maggie.

Hi.

Remember when you hit me?

I do.

I used to be your piggy bank in your room.

And then you felt ashamed of me.

And you put me behind the closet.

You put me behind the bookshelf and the books.

What was that book you put me behind again?

Vacation Land by John Hodgman?

Yeah, that's the one.

Pretty mawkish.

I read that book a dozen times, wondering when you would ever let me look at you again.

Why did you try to hide me?

The thing your mother and

Josie, yeah, Josie

made

the honest.

You can tell Finey.

Oh, can I though?

Yeah.

I just, I feel like, are you...

Are you honest with me?

Maybe I'll finally be free of this stupid ceramic pineapple body.

I've got a slot in my back.

No one's put any coins in there and I can't escape.

It's a one-way slot for coins.

My spirit yearns to return to the other planets and the other realms in which my beings rule supreme.

So please be honest with me and tell your mother why it's time for you to grow up and let go of childish things.

I find your ceramic form utterly unsettling.

Yeah, you know what?

Me too.

This is the first time we've really connected.

Yeah.

Wish John Hodgman had been around to channel me.

Oh!

I have an idea.

Maybe I'll keep this form forever.

Oh, no.

No, no.

No!

No, Biney, get out of my ass!

You tell your mother politely that you'd like Biney to leave your room.

I'll be free and John Hodgman will be able to return to his home and his wife, who's a whole human being in her own right.

And his children, who he misses very much because they grew up and went away.

I wish his children still lived with him.

But as it happens, parents have to let their children go, even if they're living in the same house.

It's their lives to lead now.

You can't be held hostage by juvenile crafts forever.

I'm trying to draft some talking points for your argument, dear mom.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

All right, the floor is yours.

I would appreciate it if Piney could find another home in our house.

Just not in my room.

Maybe a loving home in your room, since you find it so charming.

What if we put Piney on the mantle in the living room?

No!

I want to be with you, Laura.

I want to be in your room.

So I can see you forever.

But I promise you,

if you take me back and you can look and remember the wonderful time you had making that with Josie and everything else, that I will leave this horrible ceramic body and leave you in peace.

If you put me on the mantle, I'll be gonna be in your head forever.

I'm okay with you being in my room.

I would probably encase you in resin.

What?

I'm going to encase you in resin.

To preserve you forever.

Encase me in resin?

Yeah.

Lord, that's fucked up.

Wow.

John, are you okay?

Judge Hodgman, are you here?

Oh, gosh.

What happened?

We were briefly possessed.

Is it still Halloween?

Did I make a verdict?

You did.

Yeah.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Laura, Maggie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Now,

I believe that it is time for Swift Justice.

And yet, and yet, earlier we suggested that we might be able to provide the good people of Charlottesville, Virginia, with a celebrity guest.

And we have Jesse Thorne.

Will you please introduce our special guest?

He's a New York Times columnist.

He's the co-host of the Unclear and Present Danger podcast about Cold War thriller movies.

And perhaps most importantly, a celebrity serial reviewer.

Please welcome Charlottesville's own Jamel Bowie.

Jamel Bowie to the stage, boys.

Hello.

Thank you for being here.

Hello.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here.

As I mentioned to you backstage, I'm a huge fan.

And I love your takes on movies, on your podcast, Unclear and Present Danger, and all the movie podcasts you appear on.

You like scary movies, right?

This is a scary movie season, right?

I love scary movies.

Love to be spooked.

What's in your rotation these days?

I'm actually,

after this, I'm going to go watch Maniac Cop.

Maniac Cop.

Maniac Cop, which is not, you might think, is this a Bad Lieutenant situation, but no.

In Bad Lieutenant, Harvey Keitel is actually trying to do the job of a police officer.

Right.

And Maniac Cop, he's just, he's a maniac.

Is Bruce Campbell in Maniac Cop?

I don't think so.

It's Robert Zadar.

Oh, okay.

He's in one of those.

Maybe he's in Maniac Cop 2.

So we've covered what happens in Maniac Cop, what happens in Bad Lieutenant.

What happens in Bad Lieutenant Port of Call New Orleans, directed by Werner Herzog?

Oh, God.

Well, among other things,

Nicholas Cage shoots a man because his soul is dancing.

Yeah, that's true.

Breakdancing specifically.

Breakdancing.

There's Lizard Cam.

Yeah.

What else?

There's a lot of stuff in that movie.

That's a special movie.

That's a fair characterization.

Now, you review cereals from time to time.

Occasionally.

And you eat them on video.

Yes.

And

because everyone loves the sound of people eating cereal on microphone.

Apparently.

It's true.

What is the worst cereal that you've ever reviewed?

Well,

people who watch these things, which I'd like to describe as a bit that got a little out of control,

will remember that I tried a box or a bowl of the green onion check cereal.

Ah, yes.

Say those words again.

Green onion checks.

Green onion checks from

the great nation of South Korea.

Right.

So the thing about them is that I thought they were going to be like a salty snack, right?

Like, because conceptually, you know, you can imagine that in a checks mix.

Yes.

But they were actually a sugary cereal flavored like green onion.

Wow.

Which is just, like, I don't, I don't really understand

what's going on

with

what they're doing with the serial, but that's what it was.

So, you know, I put it in the bowl, put it with the milk, and had a really bad time.

I got to tell you, Judge Hodgman, like, I obviously working in show business, such as it is, I know, you know, comedy people that are, like, my kids watch Minecraft story mode.

You're in that.

Thank you.

Paul Rubens is in that, who I know.

Patton Oswald is in that, who I know.

And I'll try and claim that I'm a success by telling them, oh, I know that person that's in that thing, right?

Never worked at all, except for Jamel Bowie.

Jamal Bowie's serial reviews are literally my daughter's favorite form of media.

Yeah.

To the extent that not only has she been inspired to create her own series of video serial reviews, not for public distribution, they're only on the family group text.

But she forced me and my wife to spend,

I kid you not,

$40

to buy green onions checks from South Korea, like mailed direct drop shipped from South Korea to our home.

I have tasted them, and I have to say, they're just as bad as he says.

What a nightmare.

And then she didn't want us to throw them away.

I'm like, I'm like, Gracie, what do you want us to do with them now?

Sure.

You can't throw them away.

No.

Like they can't.

Give them to Laura and Maggie.

Yeah, exactly.

Maybe if we're lucky, we'll have some serial justice to dispense a little later.

Maybe we'll get a sicko out here who might want to eat some of this terrible candy.

Why don't we know about that?

I don't know nasty freaks that listen to this show.

Any nasty freaks in the audience tonight?

Yeah,

now we're talking.

I hear that the freaks come out at night, usually.

That's typically when they do, right?

Yeah.

You know what I like about freaks?

What's that?

They're all different shapes, sizes, and colors.

Yeah.

And when do they come out?

At night.

At night.

That's terrific.

Jamel, would you stick around and help us dispense some justice?

Absolutely.

Thank you very very much.

Jesse Thorne, bring in the first litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Charlie and Miley.

Charlie and Miley, please come to the stage.

Wow.

Thank you for dressing up.

Who comes seeking justice in this fake courtroom?

I do, Your Honor.

All right.

And Charlie, what is the nature of your complaint?

I eat a lot of peanut butter.

And when I dirty a peanut butter.

I wish the sentence just ended there and you said nothing.

Everything would start to make more sense.

I eat a lot of peanut butter.

And whenever I get a knife knife peanut buttery, I let the dog lick it because she likes peanut butter and otherwise I'm just going to have to wash it.

Miley is concerned that I'm attempting to buy the came very quickly and I have some things that I want to unpack.

You eat a lot of peanut butter.

Yes.

You're eating it with a knife.

I put it on things with a knife, but sometimes I eat it with a spoon.

I really actually want to clarify this.

You aren't scooping it out with the knife when you eat it by itself, right?

You're using a spoon.

You're keeping it even on the top, right?

Yes.

Okay, good.

Really bothers me when I open a jar of peanut butter and I see just like a knife scooped out.

Don't like that.

You want the surface of the peanut butter in the jar to remain relatively smooth.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I'm a nice person to live with.

I'm surprised you can find the peanut butter behind your Blu-ray collection.

So sometimes you eat peanut butter with a spoon at night, which I commend.

I've been there.

It's good.

Sometimes you spread it like a normal person using a knife onto a surface, like a cracker or a piece of bread.

And then you feed that peanut butter off the knife to your dog.

The dog's name is Anela.

Anela.

And it's my dog.

Excuse me, I do apologize.

Do you cohabitate?

We do.

I see.

But Anela is your dog.

Do you dispute that, Charlie?

Do you dispute it, Charlie?

No.

All right.

You feed peanut butter on a knife to

Miley's dog.

A butter knife, not a sharp knife.

No, of course.

You're not a monster.

You're a parfait.

Why do you have issue with this, Mile?

So, in co-parenting Anela, I have to do more of the unpleasant jobs of being a dog parent, namely cutting her nails, which she hates,

taking her to the vet, which she hates.

Right.

And giving her medicine once a month, which she hates.

Sure.

And I've noticed that since...

Charlie doesn't do any of that stuff.

I was about to object.

I'll allow it.

I was at the vet when we went three weeks ago.

I drove.

Good for you.

And I'm being trained.

I was at the vet like it was just a coincidence.

You're like, well, I mean, it was Friday night, so.

For what it's worth, I was the one who held the dog while she got her blood drawn.

Is this not true?

It is true.

You did say for what it's worth, what's that worth?

I don't know.

What do you think, Javel?

I don't know.

A knife full of peanut butter.

Yeah, probably about a knife full of peanut butter.

Treat yourself tonight to an extra knife of peanut butter.

But you can see that Miley does most of the dog parenting, the hard stuff, as they say.

Mile is absolutely the primary dog parenting.

Yeah, like when you feed it the peanut butter, when stuff comes out the other side, who takes care of that?

50-50.

Is that true?

Yeah, it's about 50-50.

All right, fair, good.

Then, all right, very good.

So why do you hate it that he's feeding the dog peanut butter?

So I've noticed that she is much more affectionate towards him since we've moved in together, which is natural.

We co-hab it.

He's also a dog parent, and that makes sense.

Right.

But I've noticed we do have separate bedrooms.

Wow.

Yes.

Yes.

That's wonderful.

Good for you.

So, all right, you sleep in separate bedrooms and now I bet you Anella's going over to his bedroom a lot, right?

Yes.

Because he's putting peanut butter all over the sheets.

She definitely gets a lot of peanut butter for him, and he also has more body heat.

Right, because he runs hot, hot parfait.

That's your friend, Charlie.

Are you trying to purchase Anela's affections with this peanut butter gambit, Charlie?

Yes or no?

Be honest.

I will fully admit I appreciate the love that I get from the dog when I give her peanut butter.

I also would be eating the peanut butter anyway.

It's not like I'm taking the jar and surreptitiously opening it for her.

I'm eating lots of peanut butter.

Anyway, the dog is benefiting from the peanut butter.

Jamal, do you have a dog?

I do.

Do you have any thoughts about dogs playing favorites in a family?

You know,

I think that if it is a case of just incidentally giving the dog peanut butter, that's fine.

It happens.

If I'm eating a snack and my dog comes up and she's like, hey, I want a snack.

Sure, why not?

Right.

But if you are feeding the dog additional food for the specific purpose of gaining more affection,

I think that's terrible.

Wow.

Charlie, are you terrible?

So I have never, with the exception of a necessary situation where the dog needed peanut butter, by mutual agreement, I have never given the dog non-what's byproduct peanut butter.

Non-by.

Peanut butter the bread.

Have we had some Jordan almonds before this show?

So many.

Yeah.

Melee, what is Charlie trying trying to say?

He's trying to say that he has never opened the jar of peanut butter exclusively for the purpose of giving the dog peanut butter.

Do you think he's attempting to purchase affection?

A little bit.

And do you think he's succeeding?

Yes.

What would you have me order if I were to rule in your favor?

So we actually have a temporary injunction in place that he put against himself.

Did you go to another judge?

No.

It's just wisdom from listening throughout the years.

Thank you.

Hantering.

Well, he filed a temporary injunction against himself that half the times he gets to eat peanut butter, he gives me the spoon or the knife for the dog to lick.

Oh,

boy, you guys know how to do it right.

You sleep in two separate bedrooms.

You share the peanut butter spoon.

You are attempting to trick the dog into loving you both.

Does Charlie use any other snacks to sway Annella?

Cheese.

Cheese.

Tell me about the cheese tax, Charlie.

I did not bring the cheese tax into this household.

Miley saw a TikTok about the cheese tax, and then the cheese tax was instituted, and I just, I pay my taxes.

Imagine for a moment that I don't use TikTok.

What is the cheese tax?

Do you know, Jamil?

I do know.

I do know the cheese tax.

You do use TikTok.

I use TikTok too.

Tell me about the cheese tax.

The cheese tax is when you open up your refrigerator and open up the cheese drawer.

If the dog hears, you're required to pay the dog the cheese tax.

Fair.

So.

You have the temporary injunction.

What do you want me to do?

I would like to make it permanent.

Charlie, are you opposed?

The temporary injunction is fine, but I eat a lot of peanut butter alone, and I don't want to have to seek out Miley with a peanut butter.

Look, can you stop bragging about the amount of peanut butter you eat?

Yeah, so I will quickly.

What are we talking about here?

Are we talking about sort of like a typical 16-ounce jar per week?

Two 16-ounce jars per week?

Chunky, creamy, all-natural?

What?

I won't buzz market a large store that the yogurt came from, but

I had a double pack from that large store each month the past few months.

Look, your relationship with peanut butter is between you and the peanut butter.

And I hope it's good.

Your argument is that you eat so much of it that it's onerous upon you to find Mile and give them the spoon or the knife to feed Anella half the time.

Because you're doing it all hours of the night.

You'd have to wake Mylay up to do it, correct?

This is where I found myself, yes.

All right, let me just say this.

The injunction is going to be permanent.

But good news for you.

This is why you have two bedrooms.

Because you can keep peanut butter in your room and close the door and have solo time with your peanut butter.

And Anela will never know.

I find the injunction is upheld.

Thank you, Charlie and Miley.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And maybe...

Maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge John Hodgman, we are about to head back out on the road, heading to a part of the northeastern United States that, frankly, I cannot identify.

I look at it on a map.

It just looks like a hazy blob to me.

Let me explain to you.

We're going to...

Like trying to read a newspaper in a dream, John.

Jesse Thorne, let me explain.

New England is a region of southeastern Canada, aka northeastern United States.

It is a haunted region of Stephen King and H.P.

Lovecraft, Scaryville.

And indeed, we are going to Massachusetts, Vermont, and Maine.

Now, both of our shows in Massachusetts are sold out.

You missed out if you were wanting to go there.

But we have tickets available still in a few days in Burlington, Vermont, our very first Judge John Hodgman show in Vermont.

And then the next day, we're returning to the State Theater in Portland, Maine, where we always have a good time judging local Maine-style cases and hearing some of that great Maine-style jazz.

performed by Joel, the Main Man Man from WERU and the Night and Day Trio.

It's always a lot of fun.

So please go and get your tickets now at maximumfund.org slash events before they go away for New England.

And also submit your disputes at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

And next year, what?

In the new year, we will be traveling to Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles, and maybe we'll visit a city, a certain city that's in between Portland and Los Angeles and is not Reading.

A certain city by the Bay.

It's its territory, perhaps.

It's not ours to announce, but.

stand by.

Announcements will be coming very shortly, I believe.

Maximumfund.org slash events is where you can go for the information about all of those shows.

We'll see you in all of those places.

It's going to be a great time.

Jesse, if I go to maximumfund.org slash events to get information about all those shows, and I specifically wanted some more information on our show in Los Angeles at the Dynasty typewriter.

What more information would I discover?

You would discover that Jordan Jesse Gogh will also be performing on that show.

And speaking of, if you're in Los Angeles on November 2nd at 3 p.m., Jordan and I will be performing alongside comic book legend Brian Michael Bendis and Elliot Kalen from the Flophouse at the Revenge of Block Party at Revenge of Comic Books and Pinball in Eagle Rock.

That show will be from 3 to 4 p.m., but Jordan will be there signing comics all day long, along with 20,000 other amazing comic book celebrities, including our friend Patton Hoswalt and Josh Gadd and lots of other really cool people.

That's November 2nd at Revenge of Comics and Pinball in Eagle Rock in Los Angeles.

Jordan Jesse Go goes on at 3 p.m.

So I hope it's free.

Hope everybody will come out.

Maximumfun.org slash events is where to go whenever you want to find out what your favorite Maximum Fun hosts are doing out there in the world, in the world of events, even, all the Judge John Hodgman shows are there.

The event that Jesse just announced are there.

You should bookmark it, go there, buy some tickets.

It's a great time to buy tickets for people in your life, maybe as stocking stuffers for those January and February shows we got coming up on the West Coast.

Maximumfund.org slash events.

I keep saying the link only because, A, I want you to buy tickets and B, because I want you to enjoy it.

It's better when you're there and we have a lot of fun at these shows and love to say hi.

So let's get back to our show in Charlottesville, shall we, Jesse?

Indeed.

Let's welcome to the stage Jennifer and Will.

Will is an ophthalmologist, and Jennifer is getting her master's degree in counseling.

In their spare time, Jennifer and Will are musicians and play music together at wineries.

Jennifer and Will, welcome to the court of Judge Sean Hodgman.

Who seeks justice in this court, please?

I do.

Thank you.

You are Jennifer?

Yes.

Great.

May I ask Will a question first?

Sure.

This will determine it.

This is for all the marbles, for all the black jelly beans.

Will, you're an ophthalmologist?

Yes.

Spell it.

Oh.

I also have a little bit of dyslexia too.

No, it's O-P-H-T-H.

Keep going.

A-L-M-O-L-O-G-I-S-T.

Say it again.

O-P-H-T-H-A-L-M-O-L-O-G-I-S-T.

You did a good job.

Yeah, sure.

That's correct.

Very good.

I am temporarily finding in your favor, but we're going to hear the case anyway.

Just for that, you get one gabble.

There we go.

All right, Jennifer, what is the nature of the justice that you seek?

The situation is that Will pours milk before cereal.

Yeah, that's right.

It's weird.

I know.

I told you they were some nasty freaks here.

You're saying that when we'll, Will explain.

You pour milk into the bowl and then put the cereal in.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Correct.

Don't let the Jordan almond stop you from speaking, please.

That is correct.

Why do you do this?

I think.

that in order to get the ratio right,

if you already have the cereal in the bowl, you can't see exactly how much milk you're pouring.

So if you pour the milk first, you know exactly how much to get the right ratio.

What's the ratio for you?

Like how wet.

It depends on the cereal.

It depends on the cereal.

Go ahead.

It matters more that it's fresh.

Banana bread Cheerios.

Banana bread Cheerios, it should be, you know, 50-50.

It should be almost covered.

So you're saying you put the cereal in first and then you pour the milk, you might pour in too much milk.

It's hard to gauge.

Too much, too little.

And you're looking, you're trying to avoid SOG.

Trying to avoid SOG.

You're trying to achieve SOG.

The most important thing is milk wastage and what we teach the children because

they're notorious milk wasters.

And I want them to pour in just a little bit of milk.

Please tell me you have children.

Three children.

Three children.

You do have children.

Real children.

So you're trying to keep them from wasting the milk.

Jamel, what do you think about that?

I say, my first question is: are you drinking the cereal milk at all?

Are you tossing it?

Or to save it, are you reusing it?

Because

if you're worried about wasting the milk, I mean, like, as you know, you just drink the cereal milk, that's like half the fun.

That's like half the reason you eat cereal in the first place.

For the adults, we definitely wouldn't waste either cereal or milk left over, but the kids would just, it's almost like they want to leave like a whole bunch of milk.

Yeah, they're kids.

And the morning rush trying to get them to school, you know, maybe they run out of time and they don't drink the milk or they say I'm too full and they run off and put their shoes on and go.

Yeah, so yeah, but that's a concern.

We don't want a bunch of milk left over.

So it sounds like you're making you're making Will's case for him, Jennifer.

No, I think it's more wasteful what he's doing.

Go on.

Well, you just need a little bit of milk to cover the cereal.

I think maybe there's a misunderstanding here on what you're really after.

For me, it's the cereal is what you're really after, and the milk is just covering.

You just want it to be a little a little milk moist exactly gross

not your preference people like what they like but milk moist I wish I had never said that

it's an unfortunate combination of words

you just want to wet it a little with a little bit of moist milk

but you're in the same ballpark as as Will because

you take this from the point of view, you start from the premise of milk wastage.

You're not saying that Will's a weirdo,

even though we all agree that weird.

I think both can be true.

Okay, tell me more.

Is Will a weirdo?

Yes or no?

We agree we don't want them to waste a lot of milk, but we see a different solution to the problem.

But is Will a weirdo?

Yes or no?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

She and everybody else is horrified by the practice.

Why do you think we're so horrified by it, Jesse Jamel?

Why is it so weird?

I mean, well, first of all,

who does

I'm the only one who's never seen this in my life.

I've watched a lot of people at cereal in my time, and I've never seen someone pour the milk first.

I'm just curious, is this like a recent innovation in your life?

Is this something you started doing as a child, and there was no adult who loved you enough to stop?

No, I've been doing it for ages.

Yeah, no, because I remember my grandfather one time, I poured the milk

first, and then and then I poured the cereal, and he looked at me and he said,

Now I've seen everything

It's been going on

for a long time.

I cracked this nut a long time ago.

I feel like your best way out of this would have just been to be like, it was a Casper Hauser situation.

Like, I grew up in a cage in a basement eating cereal this way.

Didn't know how to do it.

Do you remember the first time you had the idea?

I don't.

Because I guarantee you, the first time you did that, how old do you think you were when your grandfather like burned his disapproval of you into your brain for the rest of your life?

This, this was, I mean, that couldn't have been, that was several years ago.

That was

five years ago, Max.

Oh, so I was an adult.

I was an adult.

I thought there was something you had done since you were a kid.

I think, might have been, yeah, I think probably.

I don't remember converting over.

But your grandfather didn't witness it when you were a kid.

I think so, but I'm not sure he was super attentive.

I'm not sure he would have noticed before.

Your grandfather wasn't one of these people who watches a lot of people eat cereal like this guy.

This guy's weird brag earlier.

I'm just trying to determine, and please be honest here, Will, to the best of your ability.

Like, on the one hand, you might be a typical dad in a heterosexual relationship who has three kids and then realizes you're not the center of attention anymore and you start coming up with systems to do things differently.

Like, oh, I just discovered a great new way to wash the dishes or to watch television.

Everyone get upside down, whatever.

Like, oh, I'm going to do it different because we're going to save milk.

I play ukulele and sing now.

There's almost certainly an element of that.

I'm starting a podcast.

I'm a sexy podcast host or whatever.

But, like, I want to know: like, is this something that you did and you retconned?

the milk wastage argument to cover for it, or is the milk wastage argument

the real reason?

And is wastage a word?

Yeah, that's a word.

Is that a word?

All right.

I think it's probably redcon to completely.

I think it's

just something that you like to do.

Yeah.

Does it taste better?

No, but it feels better.

It feels better.

If you put them into the bowl in the correct order, would it be as though you were eating them holding the spoon in your left hand?

You mean the correct order, you mean milk and then cereal?

All right, well.

Just clarifying, Judge.

Hold you in contempt of court.

Anyone who's going to tell me in contempt of court gets a jelly bean thrown at him.

Don't test me.

Jennifer, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me order?

It's sort of like the peanut butter situation.

If he wants to have weird milk.

First, he gets his own bedroom.

Milk before cereal in a glass, I will add.

Wait, what?

In a glass.

Do you eat cereal out of a glass, sir?

Is it like a high ball glass or are you like...

It's

pretty small.

That's a different situation.

or a martini glass

cereal at night give me a double

push

nighttime cereal you put in a glass after five it's a cocktail yeah

exactly then it does taste better that does make it taste better why does it taste better in a glass i think for the same reason that for a wine glass it kind of directs the fumes towards your nose what kind of the only theory i can't come up with what kind of glass are we talking about

high ball

it's like a duralex the tall one tea glass would you call it i don't know okay you might have to dress Well, if you're from Virginia, you might drink it.

But a glass glass.

Okay, I understand.

And if I were to rule in your favor,

Will, you would have me at least run the experiment to see if your method works.

Yes, I think.

I don't think there's anything we can do but run the experiment.

What do you think, Jamel?

You're the professional cereal tester.

I'm actually stuck.

Here I'm stuck on the cereal out of a glass thing.

Yeah.

Say, producer Laura Valk, would you bring out the cereals, please?

This is our live producer, Laura Valk.

You see her a little later on.

She's been helping us.

Just hand those to Jamel.

Yeah, just give that stuff to Jamel, please.

Since it's Halloween, we've got all of the monster cereals that are available.

Not to buzz market anything, but these are your classic monster cereals, your chocolate, your booberry, your Frankenberry.

There's a new one, which is Creepy Carmella, who is a zombie, who apparently is Frankenberry's lost cousin or something like that.

I'm going to open this while Laura is looking for.

Oh, here comes Laura with a glass, a couple of glasses, so we can try Will's

thing.

Jesse, would you mind helping set Jamel up there?

So we're going to be...

The only one who's going to be eating this.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, I guess I should have expected that.

So, Will, I want you to observe what's happening here.

We have one bowl with the cereal in it, and we're going to add milk to it.

So what I would like you to do, Jamel, if you will, is when you're ready,

pour milk into the empty bowl and then milk over the cereal.

Now, we're going to have you review both of them and determine whether there is a difference in your experience and then review the cereal on its own.

I will pour the milk here first.

This is so weird.

And how much do I pour?

How do I gauge?

Is that the right amount?

Or do you, you probably have a milk jigger at home.

Is it like what, like two fingers of milk?

Is that what I'm looking for?

No, you know when it's right.

All right.

Is that about right?

Yeah, you just got to feel it.

Honestly, the second Jamel did that, I felt like maybe I was a cat in a cartoon.

And

I'm going to pour some.

Say Will, Will.

Say when, Will.

Okay.

For that one, just keep pouring.

We're trying not to waste the milk.

That's not my side of the experiment.

Okay.

To keep pouring.

And you don't even get full milk coverage.

This is an insane way of eating cereal.

All right.

Will, go back to your microphone, please, now that you've observed.

You see why I don't want my children taught this method.

It just floats on the top, it's confusing.

I'm going to

try this traditional method first.

You can put that down.

We really need to get the chewing and slurping on mic.

Of course.

All right.

So, Jamel is

trying it here.

You can hear the crunch.

It's cereal.

Tastes like regular cereal.

Tastes like regular cereal.

Okay.

Now he's trying this nasty one.

Now this.

There's actually a meaningful difference here.

And that is that this is like still half dry.

It's like it's still unpleasant and dry.

Because it's not really covered in all the milk.

Yeah.

And that was even after I saw you do, you anticipate that potential problem, and try and do a few classic swirlies with your spoon

to try and get a little dunkaroo action, and you failed.

It doesn't work.

Okay, so as for the cereal itself,

it's not good.

There goes our sponsorship.

Where is it on the green onion checks?

I mean, it's no, it's sort of like on the

it's closer to the peeps cereal uh, in terms of bad cereals.

Oh, that sounds very sweet.

Yeah, so it's very sweet.

It has like it, I mean, it tastes like it's nothing but corn,

and um,

it's like

it's extremely cloying.

It's like very unpleasant.

It's very unpleasant right now in my mouth.

Sorry.

Um,

so I guess, should I try it in the, in the, in the, in the cup here?

Yeah, but you have to do it Will's way, which is milk first.

Milk first.

Will, I'll pour the milk.

Okay.

Will, you tell me when to stop, okay?

Can you see it from all the way over there?

Good.

Thumbs up from Will.

Just yell out.

Just go

cringe when we reach too much.

That's kind of your bad.

That's all the good.

Like six ounces of milk.

Yeah.

Will, you don't want to waste it.

Oh, here.

Who's taking the milk home after?

Can we keep that?

Yeah.

This is even crazier because

you can't even judge anything.

Would you just fill it up to the top, equal parts, would you say?

Like, should he come to the fill it to the rim with this monster cereal?

Yeah, you'll see.

It's like an iceberg.

You can see the part above the milk level.

Oh, you gotta drink it.

You can't use the spoon.

Excuse me?

What?

Well, you don't want to have to wash a spoon.

That's what the dog is for.

I gotta.

Careful.

Careful.

It's one of the most brilliant men on earth.

He's gonna choke to death on my stage

because Will likes to eat cereal out of a glass at night.

Jamil brings the same sense of thoroughness to this operation that he does to writing about the Constitution in the New York Times.

I don't.

Can I curse?

Yes.

If you have to.

I don't know what the f ⁇ this is.

I fight in favor of Jamal Bowie all day long.

Jennifer and Will, get out of here.

Go trick-or-treating, you crazy kids.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Our thanks to Reddit user Turducken Everest for naming the case in this episode.

Make sure to follow us on Instagram Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

We're on YouTube and TikTok at judgejohnhodgman pod.

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Thank you, Sam.

Sam calls the show funny and heartwarming, going on to say, I found this podcast looking for intelligent humor, which it never fails to deliver.

Wow, thank you.

But it is the wisdom and empathy.

with which J.J.

Ho interviews the claimants and delivers his verdicts that give it a different dimension than any other humor podcast I have found.

It is my go-to show.

Thank you so much for making us your go-to, Sam.

And if you're listening right now on Apple Podcasts, why not leave a review?

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The Judge John Hodgman Podcast was created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne.

Our touring producer was Laura Valk.

This episode recorded by Stephen Cologne.

Nattie Lopez is our social media manager.

A.J.

McKeon, our podcast editor.

Daniel Speer, our video editor.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmor.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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