Van Freaks Roadshow in Portland Maine

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

I'm here with Judge John Hodgman.

We are just back from our Midwest run of our road court tour.

We're on a little bit of a Midrist, if you will, but we're about to hit the road again.

We're going to Burlington, Vermont, Brookline, Massachusetts, Turner's Falls, Massachusetts, and Portland, Maine, where, by the way, we recorded this episode.

We visited Portland, Maine last year, had a great time talking about outdoor cats, parallel parking, and dog walking.

Also, we had a special case involving our very own Maine Man, Joel.

That's right.

Joel Mann, program and operations director at my summertime chambers at WERU in Orland, Maine, was there, as well as the other two members of the night and day trio, playing some of that Maine-style jazz for the entire audience at the state theater.

And they will be coming back.

Joining us once again on November 7th at that same state theater in Portland, Maine.

Please get your tickets now at maximumfund.org/slash events.

Please get your tickets now at maximumfund.org slash events.

I said it twice because I mean it twice.

All right, now let's go to the stage from the Van Freaks Road Show in Portland, Maine.

People of Portland, Maine, you asked us for live justice and we're here to deliver it.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please Please welcome to the stage Anthony and Elise.

Tonight's case, Toxo Plazmotion to Dismiss.

Anthony brings the case against his wife, Elise.

Anthony wants to put his personal phone number on the collar of their cat, Salem.

Elise wants to keep Salem unlisted.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Inside a broken clock, splashing the wine with all the main dogs.

Taxi, we'd rather walk, huddle a doorway with the main dogs,

for I'm a main dog too.

Oh, how we dance.

There's always a second we swallowed the night

for it was all right for dreaming.

Oh, how we danced away all over the lights.

We've always been out of our minds.

Dun don't don't don't.

Tail, Jesse Thornton, swear them in.

Don't encourage it.

Anthony and Elise, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that we may not make it through this frigid winter?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Anthony and Elise, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom here in Portland, Maine.

Elise, why don't you guess first?

I want to say it's cats.

I just want to put it out there.

If you're going to say it's appropriate, I want to say it's the.

You want to say it's cats.

The musical cats.

The musical cats.

The musical cats.

Not just cats in general.

Actually.

Can I put in cats in general?

Sure.

Cats

in general.

Just the animal.

It covers a lot of ground.

It's probably a wise.

Any cat.

Very interesting strategy.

Cats.

What about you, Anthony?

What's your guess?

All this tour, I have been performing cultural references in homage to this one musical artist.

Well, that's consistent with my line of thinking.

Good for us.

My thought is that it might be the B-side to Blondie's Call Me.

Our lines are inconsistent, actually.

Come on.

You're wearing a little black beanie.

You know this.

No?

You're wearing checkered vans.

I just, well, all right.

All guesses are wrong.

Although, the idea of songs by cats performed by Tom Waits is very intriguing to me.

I'd like to hear the songs of Tom Waits performed by MC Scatcat from Paula Abdul's opposites attract video.

One step forward, two steps back.

I should have shouted about.

In any case,

that was the Tom Waits song Rain Dogs from the album Rain Dogs as interpreted by me.

I made a little change.

I changed rain to main because that's where we are.

John's version.

Yeah, and it wasn't about cats.

It was about dogs.

I kept saying dogs in the song.

If I were you, if you had said dogs in general, you've never changed the lyrics to anything you've ever used as your cultural reference.

Are you gaslighting me?

I guess I've never understood any of this.

Well, anyway, here we are.

We have to hear this case.

Who seeks justice in my fake court?

I do, Your Honor.

That would be Anthony.

What is the nature of your dispute?

So, Your Honor, this case is about security.

Safety and security of a feline.

I'm not, okay.

This is a cat named Salem.

Yes, this is a cat named Salem.

And you want to put your telephone number on the collar of Salem the cat.

Yes, that's correct.

Because he is an outdoor cat.

He is an outdoor cat.

He gets around.

He, yes.

We'll go into more detail, but that's the basics.

That is the basics.

And you don't want him to do this, correct, Elise?

I want Salem to be able to go outside.

I would like my number to go.

This whole theater is lit by gaslight now.

As long as I can warm my hands by it, I'm happy.

That's how we keep warm, guys.

I would like my phone number to go on Salem's collar.

We've both agreed that we want to get a caller that says outdoor cat, and then one of our phone numbers.

Anthony says it should be his New Jersey number.

I say it should be my Massachusetts number.

Whoa.

I want to be up front with the crowd.

You want people that find the cat to believe that it's on an incredible journey

or that it's buying up property to turn into Airbnbs.

Now, we'll go into some details to why Salem the Cat might need such a collar, but first of all, the full name of Salem is what, Elise?

Salem, Meow, Sachus.

Salem, Meow, Sachusetts.

And you are from Massachusetts and New Jersey, respectively.

Yes.

How long have you been living here in Portland?

Seven minutes?

Yeah, we drove up here.

No,

we both moved here in 2013.

Well, welcome to Maine.

I hope you're enjoying it.

Anthony, Salem gets, Salem's an outdoor cat.

Salem gets up to some journeys.

Is that correct?

Tell me about where Salem roams.

That is more than correct.

So this cat, upon almost immediately when we got him, insisted on being outside.

And then he has journeyed all across.

Did you Portland portion?

Did you not want Salem to be outside initially?

No.

It's a controversial decision.

It was, and our intention was not to let him outside.

I can hear the teeth of many birders and

small animal fans grinding in the audience right now.

But Salem wanted to get out.

He did.

And he wanted initially to go to Portland Glass Company, which is on Congress Street.

Is this a business that you own that you're buzz marketing?

No, not at all.

In fact, they are very nice, though, about this in particular.

We have never used them for the glass services, just the pet sitting.

Is it, do they replace windows or do they blow glass?

No, they replace windows.

They replace windows.

At least as far as I can tell.

Okay.

Right.

I mean, maybe you should put a little camera on Salem and see what they're up to over there.

Yeah.

Perhaps.

So Salem likes to...

How far away is the Portland Glass Company?

As the crow flies or the cat wanders perhaps 300 yards from our backyard.

Okay.

Yeah, Yeah, it's not too far.

How did you discover that Salem was hanging out with other people?

They would call me because my number is the number on the little hang tag that he called.

The little hang tag right now.

Okay, I got you.

And where's the weirdest place that Salem has ever ended up?

Weirdest place is probably

Sacred Heart Parish.

He was on the altar, and this is a black cat.

The deacon called me and said.

Sunday morning.

Sunday morning.

Sunday morning.

Sure.

I get a call from the deacon.

This is the deacon of Sacred Heart Parish or Cat Salem is here.

Right.

I said,

well, is he outside?

Oh, no, he's inside.

Yeah.

I said, where?

And they said, well, currently he's on the altar.

Right.

I could not have grabbed my keys faster to try to capture a photo of this black cat on the altar.

Did you manage it?

No.

No, I would think that we would have that photo.

He was too busy wandering through the pews getting pets from the nice folks.

From the congregants.

Yes, absolutely.

He's the best.

Yeah,

Salem was getting pets from the congregants and converting them to Satan's army.

We can only hope.

Yeah.

I would imagine we would have a photo of Salem on the altar if you had captured it, but you did capture a video.

Is that correct?

Now, we can't show the video here in the state theater, so I need you to describe it.

So I used to work for Maine Medical, and I had a couple of friends who worked for security, and they had met Salem.

He had come outside the hospital, and one day I got a text message of closed-circuit television, which showed a doctor walking down the hallway texting.

Well, hang on one second.

I have the video that I'm going to show it to Jesse Thorne, and maybe he can describe exactly what he sees in a non-biased way.

Very fair.

So this is, this looks like a phone recording of a security display.

Correct.

Is what I'm looking at.

If you imagine like the movie sneakers or something.

And the cat is, it's a hospital.

And the cat is having a little hot is going around.

Everybody's like, whoa.

It's a cat just walking.

Like,

do you remember that footage of the senator Josh Hawley running away?

Running across a hallway, running away from the army of lunatics that he unleashed.

I'm not saying that your cat is a January 6th truther or anything, but I am saying it's very, if you imagine a hospital hallway and a cat just suddenly walking across the hallway into one of the examination rooms.

There's also, like, presumably a nurse or someone that works chasing the cat going.

So this has become an issue, and so you've decided you want to give Salem a collar that says outside cat.

Why do you need to feel the need to advertise that in particular?

So people call the number on the collar all the time.

On the tag.

Yeah, on the tag now, all the time, because it doesn't say outside cat.

And

for whatever reason,

they assume that he's lost.

So I have to have that conversation.

Why?

I mean,

it's bizarre if you were working in a hospital trying to perform surgery

and a cat came in,

be like, oh no, don't worry about it.

It's an outside cat.

It belongs here.

That cat's not lost.

It's fine.

It just wants to spend some time with Christ.

Yeah.

Your Honor,

he has actually since he's stopped going to Portland Glass, the hospital, he has frequented some corner stores in Bodegas.

Sure, that's where cats belong.

It's not that.

It's really, it's people on the street.

So people have gotten used to him.

Holy Donut is, he's regular there.

They just send him on his way.

Sure.

It's folks, I think, visiting often who are very worried to find a cat who approaches them running.

He will run towards people.

Yeah, ignorant people from away.

No,

they just haven't seen him yet.

And

he's very worried.

Oh, those tourists and newcomers who moved here in 2018 rather than 2017.

Look, I'm a monster.

I am a monster.

I don't live here all the time.

I'm like you, a terrible person.

He has a very specific meow.

Let me hear it.

Wow!

Wow!

I can't top that.

Wow.

That is really not.

So Salem the Black Cat is wandering around Portland, alarming people who don't know that this cat is not a witch, but is in fact just a cat.

So if you're familiar with the film A Nightmare Before Christmas, the cat alarm in that film is very similar to the nightmare.

Oh, sure,

yeah.

Go ahead and do it.

I don't know if I can.

From Henry Selleck's A Nightmare Before Christmas.

That one.

Yeah.

Do it again because I talked over you.

All right, now do it again just because it's fun.

Okay, now do a helicopter landing.

Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Winslow.

Okay, so you want the caller to announce that this cat is knowingly outside on purpose.

Correct.

That this is the cat

acting upon its own will, and

no one should be worried.

But if they are worried, they should call someone.

Right.

And you believe that they should call you, Anthony.

That's correct.

And they have been calling you.

They have been calling me, yes.

So what is Anthony doing wrong, at least, on these calls, such that you want to put your own number on there?

So Anthony is very kind.

And so when he receives the phone call, he allows the person to do the talking

and lets them direct the conversation.

When I answer the phone, and sometimes I'll be with Anthony and answer for him, I say, oh, you found Salem?

Is he bothering you?

And when they say, no, because he's awesome,

I say, great, you can let him outside if he's in your house.

Thank you for checking on him.

And then we're done.

It's always.

Anthony often has to go rescue Salem from God knows where, whatever street, whatever he's doing.

He's left work.

He's stopped, you know, whatever.

His big error and sin in your mind is that he cares about the cat and wants it to be okay and come home.

He's fine.

And I have another thing.

Anthony loves to surf and travels for work.

For example, he will be traveling abroad in December and he's traveled abroad for several different conferences

and he's traveled throughout the United States so he's often gone which limits the amount of time I just want to clarify for the audience because Anthony is sitting here he's got checkered vans he's got a little beanie on he's got a hoodie

you've indicated that he likes to surf and he's traveling a lot abroad he is not a loathsome tech bro

He's an environmental lawyer, correct?

That's correct.

All right.

Just so you know,

you're giving a lot of loathsome tech bro, but you're an environmental lawyer.

I'm sorry.

No, no, I just

look, I just worry for you walking around Portland, like you should have a caller that says, not a loathsome tech bro.

Environmental lawyer.

Call Elise for confirmation.

So why can't he handle the calls?

Because he's got to go out and get Sam.

He worries too much.

Oh, he's going away.

He can't receive the call if he's in the ocean or he's in Dubai.

Right, but that's temporary, you understand.

His travel is.

Are you suggesting that he's going to go away and not come back?

No.

Do you have a plan?

My thinking is that any, Salem loves being outside.

It is really, truly, it makes him happy.

It calms him down.

He feels...

Just better when he comes home.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Like, he just feels more himself after he's had a day outside.

It says here that if I were to rule in your favor, Elise,

that not only do you want your number to be on the collar, but if I rule against you, if it's Anthony's number on the collar, you want to write him a script and practice what he should say

so he knows how to respond when people call.

You really don't love talking to strangers if you don't have to, right?

You're doing a great job tonight, Anthony, I have to say.

Thank you.

I mean, you didn't make the cat noise, but

that was a good judgment on your part.

I've heard how you would handle a call.

Let's say I'm calling you.

Hello.

Oh, yeah.

Hi.

Is Anthony there?

Yeah.

Am I speaking to Anthony?

Yeah.

Great.

There's a cat here with a collar on it, and it's got this number on it, and I just want to make sure...

The cat is currently sitting on the altar of my church.

The crucifix is spinning around at great

speed.

People are vomiting blood.

There's

some chanting that I'm hearing.

It's like a meowing chanting.

Right.

Yeah, that's it.

That's exactly it.

And mice are crawling out of the walls and writhing on the floor.

Is this your cat?

Is there something I need to know about it?

Oh, oh, I'm coming right now.

I'll be right there.

I mean, it's somewhat accurate.

All right.

Do you want to make a positive argument for why your number more than Elise's should be on the collar?

Yes.

You're going to be traveling around the world.

You're not always going to be able to run to save your cat from a witch trial.

I understand there are moments in time, discreet, where it makes more sense because I'm not here in Maine.

But most of the time, my...

job allows me to actually show up and pick him up.

And there have been times where...

But at least it's saying he doesn't need to be picked up.

But there have been times where he needs to be picked up.

So let me just give a few examples.

In more than one instance, people have brought him into their homes

and then

at least intimated that they might not return him during the phone call.

Well, because they're under hypnotic power.

Right.

Or they're overly concerned about him being outside or whatever it may be.

That might result in them saying, well, I'm just going to keep him for a while, while, which is

that that has happened, although I've convinced the person to allow me to come and take him from them.

But at least her job would not allow her to leave in the middle of the day to do that kind of thing.

We've had another person

tie him up to a pole outside, which for a cat is very traumatic.

What is happening in Maine?

Yeah, I don't know.

Are you anxious for Salem's safety?

I mean, not just from human intervention, but there are cars, there's other misfortune that can befall an outdoor cat.

I'm not anxious for his safety with respect to cars or other things that might be out there because he is a very savvy operator when he's outside.

In fact, so savvy that this is part of the problem, that he is able to manipulate humans into feeding him, bringing them into their abodes, petting him.

So he's less at risk from cars and more at risk from Portlanders who think they know better about how your cat should be raised.

Correct.

That sounds about right.

Okay.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Anthony, how are you feeling about your chances?

Not good.

Why is that?

I think I haven't come across as the most sympathetic person

in this interaction.

I think you're adorkable.

Yeah.

Babe, you seem very sympathetic to me.

You don't want me to have to worry about it and sympathetic to the cat who you're worrying about.

So Elise, stop trying to crave sympathy.

Elise, how are you feeling about your chances?

Good.

I also did ask for a verdict that feels okay to me.

I want to support Anthony doing this.

And I guess some of it comes from just wanting to be able to help more with the cat.

So I feel I feel good.

I think that him being stuck in the ocean or class or another country is helping my case a little bit.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Anthony, I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for you.

You obviously care for this cat, and

you should have a measure of care because Salem is out in the world.

Look,

it's a somewhat controversial decision to let your cat roam free outside.

There are a lot of people who don't approve of that decision, and a lot of people who would love to take your cat away from you as a result of that decision.

In many ways, I worry that putting a collar on that says, I am an outdoor cat on purpose, may put more of a target on Salem's back than he already has.

But I don't know.

He's a savvy operator, as you say.

I absolutely believe that

you care about him.

I do not see any evidence that your desire to go and get Salem and bring him home causes any damages whatsoever to Elise, so I'm not really sure what her standing is,

unless.

Now, when we record a live podcast on stage, the listener at home is not privy to some of the things that I can see and observe in person.

We all heard Elise's uncanny imitation of a cat.

What you cannot see at home is that she is wearing a leopard print blouse

and cat socks.

Moreover,

when she was making her imitation of the cat, there is a ukulele on stage that Jesse will play later, and it fell over seemingly of its own accord.

Given that we know that Salem the cat is demonic by nature,

And there are concerns of it being a shape-shifting familiar, and given that I have seen no, Salem is not here, and you never see Salem and Elise in the same place at the same time,

then I wonder if indeed Elise might be making advocacy for a certain freedom that she would enjoy in her other form as a cat.

Her witchly form, her meowing form, and her psychic powers that allow everyone to take her in, to live in different homes and feed her food, and makes her able to knock over ukuleles at will without touching them.

It may be that she doesn't want your number on the collar, Anthony, because she doesn't want to come home.

Ouch.

Well, she wants to come and go as she pleases, which all humans should be able to do.

And I think Salem should be able to do as well.

I think the thing that I am most concerned about here is the safety of the cat, demon or not.

I think you are wise to make clear that there is a number to call if the cat is out of place.

I don't think you should say this is an outside cat.

I do think that that's going to cause scrutiny upon Salem that Salem does not deserve.

I think that your number should be on the collar.

because you really want it to be and you should be able to go and take care of your cat.

There's no reason for it not to be.

There is nothing about what Elise said in her training video of how to answer the phone that made me feel would be more effective than you taking care of your own anxiety and your cat by going to get it.

I think that that number, however,

you should be able, maybe you should have both numbers on the collar, or you should create...

Wow.

All right, I'll go with them.

Or create, use a, use a

technology company's create a number number that is just for Salem that rings on both of your phones is another possibility.

So, but that's what I would say.

But absolutely, Anthony, when the devil calls, you should answer the phone.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Anthony and Elise, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgmod.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgin podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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Just go to maximumfund.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made Inn.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Anyway, we're going to hear a few cases very quickly.

Joel, will you be here to comment if you have any insights to lend?

I will.

Okay, very good.

Let's put 15 minutes on the clock.

Jesse Thorne, when you're ready, Nine Day Jazz Trio, when you're ready, why don't we welcome the first litigants?

Please welcome to the stage Emily and Brendan.

Thank you very much, Night and Day Jazz trio, especially

They had to play a little longer while we adjusted the microphone stand for the gigantic man who is standing to my right.

I think we had to we had to send out for an extra tall microphone stand during that inter inter that break there.

I think think that's two microphone stands taped together.

That's exactly right.

I also think that's one man sitting on another man's shoulder.

That's right.

That's true.

I was thinking of exactly so, wearing an extra long LL bean pullover, trying to sneak into the movies.

So,

Brendan and Emily, who seeks justice in this court?

That would be me.

Emily.

Are either of you from Maine?

No.

Okay.

Sorry.

Where are you from originally?

Originally from Minnesota.

Minnesota, okay.

You obviously moved here for the consistent weather.

Absolutely.

And you, and Brendan, where are you from originally?

Nashville, Tennessee.

Nashville, Tennessee.

Cool.

What brought you here to Maine?

We're in our medical residency at Maine Meds.

Oh, excellent.

You ever see a cat wandering around?

Not yet.

Looking forward to it.

Keep an eye out.

You know who to call.

Who seeks justice in this fake court?

I do.

All right.

Emily, what is the nature of your dispute?

Yeah, so Brendan and I live fairly close by in downtown Portland and we park on the street

and we usually have to parallel park to do that.

And it's kind of...

Have you ever heard of that, Joel?

Parallel parking?

You can't do it.

No, right.

Not terribly common outside of Portland, I would imagine.

Yeah, that's fair.

You know, I believe, Jesse, that kids growing up in Maine who get driver's licenses don't have to learn how to parallel park.

Is that really true?

I think that's true.

Should be true.

You know what?

You guys should write a letter.

Okay.

So, but you, but you, being from Minnesota, you love to parallel park.

I weirdly do love to parallel park.

It can be kind of difficult to find a place near our apartment.

So it takes, I don't know, like sometimes up to 10 minutes for us to try to find a spot because it's difficult to find.

So your issue is not with the city of Portland.

Your dispute is with Brendan because he won't let you parallel park.

No, so I, when I'm driving and I see a tight spot, I usually just go for it and it works out pretty well.

But if Brendan's the one driving and he sees that same spot, he'll pass it by and won't try.

And I would like to be able to switch drivers so that I can try to parallel park.

He's a less confident parallel parker.

Exactly.

It's not the ability, it's the confidence.

Right.

But I mean you could appreciate why you know his sense of spatial relations might be skewed.

I don't think he's seen the ground since he was seven years old.

But I'm pretty amazed that you're getting any spots at all given you must be driving around in a double-tall sprinter van.

What kind of car do you drive, Brendan?

I'm sorry to keep talking.

How tall are you?

I'm six foot ten.

Wowie, sowie.

Yeah, so it's

very solidly in the 99th percentile of height.

You've obviously got that stat memorized.

Yeah.

We drive a Kia Soul and it's it works pretty well.

You know, it's got some headroom.

My legs, you know, I squeeze them in there.

So

so Brendan, let's say you and Emily are driving home and you're looking for a parking spot.

Walk me through what's happening.

Why are you giving up spots that Emily thinks you can get into?

Is she wrong or are you wrong?

I think that she wants to stop and do this because I'm getting progressively frustrated as we're not finding a spot.

But she thinks you are finding spots.

She thinks we are finding spots.

I think I have a good grasp on what a good spot is, even though she is the superior parallel parker, and that her solution would not be any more efficient than driving to the next spot that we could find.

Her solution being, get out of the damn damn car Let me park here drivers.

Yes, exactly.

Has she ever crunched another car while parallel parking?

Not that I know of not that you know of no, she's confident of it.

I'm pretty good.

No

Do you ever let her parallel park?

Have you ever switched before?

We have never switched before.

Right.

But when she's driving and she parallel parks, do you feel nervous?

Not at all.

No.

She's got it.

Yeah.

She nails it every time.

Yeah.

So why won't you just switch places with her and let her park?

I don't think it would be efficient to switch, like stopping on a road.

Okay, Judge Hodgman,

I have an idea here.

Yeah.

Do you mind?

But I will be willing to perform Yakity Sachs.

And what I'd like to see is just how much time it takes you to get out of the car, go around the car, and switch places, okay?

Could we regulate it?

Yeah.

I think you have to sort of pretend to sit down, right?

So those microphones, take those microphones as your seats in the car.

I mean, I would like you to crash and make the

microphones.

I mean,

you don't want them to hold the microphone.

No, I want them to use that as an understanding of where their seats in the car are.

So, here you are.

Yeah, okay.

You're driving.

You arrive at a spot.

And Brindley says,

I enjoyed that.

Okay.

Okay, now.

He's still taller than me.

Look at this.

Incredible.

Okay, so now

you see the spot.

What do you say, Brendan?

Hey, I don't think we can fit there, Emily.

Then what do you say, Emily?

Oh, we can definitely fit there.

Okay.

Adjust the seat.

I'll say this.

Much to my surprise, that exercise was actually useful

to me in appreciating that

it takes an extra amount of time, not only for Brendan to unfold himself

and get out of the Kia Soul or whatever you're driving these days, but also that it will take Emily probably 30 to 45 minutes just to bring the seat forward

in the car and to adjust the weirdly adjusted mirrors for this monster that you're in a relationship with.

30 seconds.

This beautiful monster.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

You know I love you.

That said, you bring no empirical evidence that it would take more time to switch than it would be to find another parking space.

And I believe it takes a long time to find a parking space.

So I think you need to do it at least five five times and get a little stopwatch and see exactly how long it takes so you actually have some data to back up your claims.

Until then, let Emily park the car.

Thank you, Emily and Brendan.

Please welcome to the stage Peter and Tatya.

Peter and Tatya, welcome.

Who seeks justice in my court?

That would be me, Your Honor.

Peter, and are you from the state of Maine?

No.

Okay.

Tatya?

No.

No?

Where did you meet?

On Martha's Vineyard.

I was working there and he was

living on Cape Todd.

Across the west.

Those are both parts of the state of

Commonwealth.

Yeah, we did meet in Massachusetts.

Yeah, right.

Interesting.

So, all right, so welcome to Maine.

Peter, you are the one who seeks justice.

What is the nature of your complaint?

So, our dispute is in regards to where it is and is not appropriate for a dog to be walked in our small coastal tourist town on Mount Desert Island.

You live in Bar Harbor?

Yeah, that's the one.

Sorry, were you trying to get into secrets?

Yeah, that's fine.

There's so many Tatias in the world.

So you have a dog?

What is the name of your dog?

His name's Buddy.

Buddy.

And you like to walk your buddy all over Bar Harbor, even places where Buddy shouldn't be?

That's debatable.

That's why we're here.

But yes, I love to walk him all over.

What kind of places is Tatia walking buddy where you feel it's inappropriate?

So throughout our neighborhood, there are a lot of varying,

sorry, there's a variety of different lawn signs with varying degrees of specificity.

This can range from a neon sign that says no poop and pee with a crossed out picture of a dog pooping and then a picture of a police badge and a security camera on it.

All the way down to what I find to be the most tasteful, which is a demure little iron dog in the shape of a dog pooping.

It says no emblazoned on it.

And I think that if one of these...

Iron, like wrought iron?

Like a wrought iron.

It's either wrought or cast.

I don't know which one it is.

It's a classy town bar harbor.

Yeah,

they're very small.

They're like just a couple inches off the ground.

So you see them as you walk the dog.

It's an enameled cast iron.

It's a Le Cruset.

My thinking is that if one of these

signs exists, just don't walk the dog near the signs or on the lawn with the signs.

It's better safe than silent.

Tatya, you love those signs.

You like to get right up near them.

I take a sign at face value, right?

So those metal signs with a dog pooping and it says no, that sign says no pooping.

So I don't let buddy poop on their yard, but like he can go sniff some grass.

Nowhere in the rule book does it say a dog can't play basketball while shitting on this lawn.

That's the hare we're splitting today in Bar Harbor.

So if you don't want dogs on your lawn, why would you elect to purchase a sign that has a silhouette of a dog pooping?

I feel like it's very unappealing to look at, but you bought it.

Do you think the intention is, please let your dog poop here?

No, no, no, they don't want your dog to poop there, so I don't, I know when he's gonna.

You're walking, buddy, on other people's lawns.

No, no, no.

We're on the sidewalk, and like he goes, you know, two feet off the sidewalk into their into their there.

Look, I know that property is theft and criminal, but it is the system that unfortunately we live in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

you believe that the rules don't apply to buddy?

No, no, no.

I don't think that what they're trying to say is like, no dogs on my lawn.

I really think that people in that town, in Burr Harbor, like all winter long, they just let their dog poop on lawns and don't pick it up.

Joel, you have a dog?

Yes, I do.

What's the name of your dog?

Sweetie Pie.

Sweetie Pie, the dog.

I got a picture of that dog.

I'm going to show it to Jesse Thorne here if I can find it real quick.

Sorry.

Should have had this one queued up.

Is it a nice dog?

He's a miniature dachshund, long hair.

And he's a boy named Sweetie Pie.

Well, I'm a boy who's a sweetie pie.

He is a sweetie pie.

I wish I could share him with all of you.

Where does Sweetie Pie go to the bathroom, Joel?

On other people's lawns?

Living room.

That's very cute.

Very cute.

That's a classic Maine Beach right there.

That's right.

So have you ever been chased off a lawn before?

Has anyone ever complained about Tatia, Peter?

No.

Not to my recollection.

No.

Tatia, not something that happened in secret that you're withholding right now?

No.

No, Your Honor.

So what would you have me rule, Peter?

I would say just if there is a sign that indicates no dog, whether it's no pooping or any degree of anti-dog sentiment to keep the dog off the lawn so that I don't have to have anxiety about it.

Tati, you know what these signs mean.

I, okay.

You know what the intention is.

They would rather not have a dog on their lawn.

It's a really unclear sign then.

That's all I'm saying.

I will happily keep him off their lawn, but that's a bad sign if that's what you mean.

There's so many other ones.

In the neighborhood, there's a dog, the exact same silhouette that says, please keep off the grass.

That's very clear.

I will happily follow that.

But the sign says, no pooping.

He's not pooping there.

All right.

Here's what I'm going to say.

You're arguing in incredibly poor faith.

And

much like the arguments that people make about whether or not it's okay to go and refill your soda from a fountain machine in a restaurant.

And they're like, is that okay?

Is that okay?

All you have to do is ask.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, you can find out if it's okay.

I imagine if you were to knock on the door and say, Can I walk my dog across your lawn?

I know you got that sign there, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Cool, because I said on stage in Portland that,

but you haven't been chased off a lawn yet.

And here's the thing: I'm going to allow you to keep doing this, even though it makes Peter very uncomfortable, and even though you're arguing in terribly bad faith, because

I want to, when when I come back to Bar Harbor, I want to see you getting yelled at.

I want this, this confrontation is inevitable.

I don't care enough about assholes who own property in Bar Harbor's lawns to do anything about it.

But I do look forward to the reckoning.

that you will eventually face.

And I love Bar Harbor and I love visiting.

And someday I'm going to be up there, I'm going to be going to that weird movie theater where they put an intermission in the middle of nope for no reason to sell their bad pizza.

I'm going to be taking a little break, and I want to see.

I'm like, oh, there's Tatya.

Oh, and she's being yelled at finally.

And she's holding her own, I don't doubt.

Maybe you'll win the battle.

Maybe you're right.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I want to see the confrontation.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Thank you, Peter and Tatya.

You know, we've been doing my my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Well, we're right in the middle of the fun in Portland, Maine.

We are actually headed back to Portland, Maine shortly, as well as much of the rest of New England, whatever that is.

Yeah, I got a message.

It's a region of southeastern Canada.

I got a message, though, from my friends and family in Brookline, Massachusetts, who didn't get tickets to the show.

Too bad.

It's sold out in Brookline.

But guess what?

Not very far away.

Take a little weekend trip to Portland, Maine, or Turner's Falls, or even beautiful Burlington, Vermont.

We'll be there in early November performing for you and bringing justice finally to these regions of New England.

And then early in the new year, we'll be going to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, Seattle, Washington, Portland, Oregon, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

Come visit the road court and see us on tour.

Maximumfund.org slash events for tickets.

And of course, maximumfund.org slash jjho for disputes that you might want adjudicated live live on stage in any of these places.

That's maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho to submit those disputes in all of those places and grab those tickets at maximumfund.org slash events.

Let's get back to the stage in Portland, Maine.

Let's welcome to the stage Joel and Michelle.

Hello.

How are you, Your Honor?

So it was Joel and Michelle.

Joel.

Okay.

Should there be someone with you?

Yes, sir.

It says Joel and Michelle.

Joel and Michelle.

Oh.

Hi, honey.

Hi, honey.

It's Joel Mann as the other litigant.

Oh, no.

Oh, no.

Michelle, it's so nice to meet you.

As many of you may know, during the summertime, I will go and record the Judge John Hodgman podcast in the solar-powered studios of WERU Community Radio,

which you can listen to, and I often do at weru.org, wherever you are in the world.

Joel, you are the program director, operations manager,

everything.

Joel is, well, okay, program director, let's say.

What is it, Joel?

Program and operations director.

Oh, wow.

P-A-O-D.

Right.

Tough job.

Tough job.

Love it.

Director of Scallop Procurement.

Yeah, director of Evening Out the C D's on the Shelf.

So many CDs.

While I was there over the summer, I met your son-in-law, Brie.

Brie.

From that region of France that I don't remember.

I've not yet met his wife, your daughter, but it's nice to get to know another member of the family.

You bring the case against Joel Mann.

I do.

How could you be angry at him?

Come on.

Oh, I'm not angry.

Okay.

Vengeful?

What's the nature of your dispute?

Well,

for 18 years since we built our house, I've wanted not a fancy pool, just an above-ground pool for me and eventually our grandchildren and for my dog, Sweetie Pie.

You want a swimming pool for your dog and your future grandchildren?

And for my girlfriends so we can have cocktails and swim.

And you have to admit, Joel, we are reaching a point in Maine's climate where it might be comfortable to be in a swimming pool at some point.

So true.

Why have you denied your wife a swimming pool, Joel?

I just don't think I'd go in it that much

because it is cold up there and maybe you go...

I mean, we don't even go in the water.

Right?

Well, there's a difference between the ocean and a swimming pool.

Well, I got her a pool, okay?

You got her a pool.

I got her a pool.

Describe the pool that you got her.

Well, it's not huge.

It does have a big screen TV and a wine bar.

And

I don't know why she doesn't like it.

I have a photo of it, and I might venture to say that it's because it's a kiddie pool on a dick.

Chesse, you want to take a look at this?

It's five inches tall.

So, what I'm seeing here is

I'm seeing a temporary kiddie pool.

I'm going to guess five feet across.

The big screen TV appears to be, I'm going to say, a 21-inch computer monitor.

And the wine bar is a compact igloo cooler

with a box of wine on top.

Sweetie Pie liked it.

There is, to be fair, a rubber lobster in there, which is fun.

Sure.

Very much on brand.

I'm sure Sweetie Pie loves it a lot, but what about your other Sweetie Pie?

How long have you been asking for a pool, Michelle?

18 years.

18 years.

And I'm not getting any younger, so.

Strange, I am.

We don't really like like to go to the beach that much and explain.

No, why would you?

I know where you live.

Joel, do you think that Michelle's expectation of what she wants out of a pool is more grand than she represents?

Oh, no, absolutely not.

No, I just don't want to have to clean a pool.

fill up a pool, empty a pool.

Pay for a pool.

Pay for a pool.

Come on, how big a deal can it be to pay for this pool?

You run a community radio station.

Very true.

Very true.

Spend a few of those jazz bucks.

Yeah, maybe sell a couple old Joe Bird and the field hippies records, get some money for the pool that way.

Can you make any argument whatsoever why I shouldn't rule in Michelle's favor?

Obviously she's impatient.

Obviously you love her.

Obviously Sweetie Pie and the future grandchildren would all be very happy in there.

What about her girlfriends?

Why not do it?

Why not splurge?

Really doesn't seem a good reason, does it?

No, you better come up with one.

It's cold in Maine.

Yeah, I mean, we have friends who have one, and we go over there maybe three times a summer.

I mean, you have about three days in the summer you can swim in Maine.

Yeah, but you know that's going to change.

I think prepare for the future.

Get your wife a pool, Joel.

Sorry.

Thank you, Joel and Michelle.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

Thanks to Redditor Kingstork for naming the case in this episode.

You can follow us on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman.

We're on YouTube and TikTok at judgejohnhodgman pod.

And speaking of Maine, I have to send a special thank you to Matt, who gave us a nice rating and five stars over at Apple Podcast saying, sorry to buzz market, but I finally tried Moxie and I didn't even have to go to New England, a region of northeastern United States of America.

Matt says, it's not bad.

Thanks, Judge Sean Hodgman.

Thank you, Matt, so much.

And if you, the listener, enjoy the show, why not leave a review over there on Apple Podcasts?

You can also leave a review over there at Pocketcast now.

So if you're listening there, leave a review over there.

And or why not share one of our YouTube episodes with a friend or save and share our Instagram posts?

Hitting all those little hearts and thumbs ups and especially shares on all of our platforms really does help people discover the show, and we're really grateful for it.

Oh, and by the way, if you hate computers and you don't use any of that stuff, whoo, you must be living a wonderful life.

Good for you.

But it's still a great day to tell a friend or a family member about the show using your own mouth.

Or, as I say, bring them to one of our live shows.

Check out our schedule at maximumfund.org slash events.

We're coming to New England soon.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast was created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne.

Our touring producer on that tour was Laura Valk.

This episode was recorded by Stephen Cologne.

Natty Lopez is our social media manager.

AJ McKeon is our podcast editor.

Daniel Speer is our video producer.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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