Clear and Present Banger

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, clear and present banger.

Christian and SUNY are part of a friend group that loves to discuss pop music.

Christian asked the group to name their songs of the summer for 2024, but some members picked songs that aren't even from this year.

SUNY says, this is unacceptable.

Christian says, any summer counts.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

When the Oldsmobile has got the top down on it, when the catamaran has got the drop down on it, when the flat of the lamb has got the crop down on it, some things were good before, and some things never were.

But that summer feeling is going to haunt you one day in your life.

Bailiff Jesse Thornton, please swear the litigants in.

Christian and SUNY, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge Sean Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that every year since 1983, Judge Hodgman's song of the summer has been 99 Luft Balloons?

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

That's, you know, that is absolutely a clear clear and present banger,

which is a little riff on our wonderful title.

Suni and Christian, you may be seated for an immediate summary.

Judgment: one of your favorites.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I reference as I enter the courtroom.

Suni, what's your guess?

I'm going to go with what I had come in here to guess.

It seems like a song lyric, and I'm going to go with a mountain goats song lyric.

A mountain goats song, not a particular song, just anyone.

Any

mountain goats song summer song lyric.

Some, excuse me, summer song.

They're all the same.

It's just a bunch of singing.

Just a bunch of beautiful words and music.

Christian, what's your guess?

Uh, I also think it was a song lyric.

I'm going to say that it's a West Coast rap song about summer and crops.

And crops.

Exactly.

I mean, the crops is a dead giveaway because you would never see that in East Coast rap, but that's a big part of West Coast rap.

Yeah.

West Coast agricultural rap,

Agro rap.

Was there an artist that you wanted to attach to your guess?

Well, let's just go with Snoop Dogg.

Sure.

That's always a good guess for anything.

If I were, Nasi, here's the thing, because I got word in the briefing that, Christian, you're a music nerd.

So I had to go pretty obscure with this one.

If I had said this one, would you have guessed?

And Suni, you're also going to get to guess.

And as I think back, it makes me wonder how the smell from a grill could spark up the world's most toxic impulse.

No.

Ring a bell?

It does not.

What's the world's most toxic impulse in the Judge John Hodgman averse?

Nostalgia.

Correct.

As I think back, it makes me wonder how the smell from a grill could spark up nostalgia.

Summertime by DJ Jesse Jeff and the Fresh Prince.

Okay.

Song of the Summer, 1991.

But okay, I should have gone with that one.

1991 through 2024 inclusive.

Yeah, exactly.

Probably the song of the summer forever.

We just proved Christian's point.

But

because I was concerned that Christian would be a ringer or a ringer, based on our incredible title for this week's podcast,

I had to go all the way back, in fact, to 1983 to not a rap artist, but in fact,

the wonderful, beautiful, naive lyrics.

of one Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers from the fourth album by Jonathan Richmond.

Jonathan sings the name of the song is That Summer Feeling.

And it speaks specifically of that toxic impulse.

That summer feeling is going to haunt you one day in your life.

Some things were good before, but some things never were.

And the whole song, I've never heard this Jonathan Richmond song before.

Have you heard of it?

Does it ring a bell to you, Christian or Sunny?

I've heard it, but I...

It doesn't stick in my head.

Well, it's a real danger.

Put it in your convertible when the Oldsmobile has the top down on it or on your catamaran when the drop down's on it.

When you're driving by those land with the crop down on it, because I guess summertime you've brought in the crops.

I don't know.

But it's a haunting song.

It has no drops.

Only the catamaran has a drop.

No, the song itself does not have a drop, but it's beautiful.

And it reminded me that summer kind of often feels like something you really only fully experience when you're thinking about it once it's over.

Because it happens.

We're coming into the summer right now as we record and it happens so quick.

And yet your memories of it are so prolonged and deep.

If they're good memories, and I hope they are for everyone.

Have a great summer, everybody.

School's out.

Bye.

I'm not doing this anymore.

Oh, wait.

We have to.

Sorry, I'm so excited.

So excited to run away.

But no, school's still in.

We got to hear this case.

No one guessed it.

So let's get into it.

Who brings this case before me for justice?

I do.

Suni, it's nice to see you again.

You are on our show in Chicago, correct?

This is correct.

Now, were you the person who ate half an olive from a martini or hated the person who ate half an olive from a martini?

I wouldn't go so far as to hated the person, but I hated the action of eating half an olive, which then you proceeded to do ad nauseum on stage in front of me.

Thank you very much.

I love olives by the half.

Well, anyways, nice to see you again.

And, but Christian, I've never met you before.

You're completely unknown to me.

We established that.

Yes.

We met at the Field Museum in Chicago after a medallion status event.

Indeed.

But I have no memory of it.

So I'm not recusing myself.

Like all the best judges, I refuse to recuse myself under any circumstances.

No matter what flag your wife flying.

No matter what flag I'm flying.

Right now, my flag has half an olive on it, which is the new standard of House Hodgman, by the way.

Thank you, Suny.

All right, Suny, what's the dispute?

What's this thing about the song of the summer?

What's going on?

So Christian and I are in a music league that actually he started a number of years ago during the pandemic.

It's through a popular streaming app.

Yeah.

All right.

First of all i just need you're both under fake oath right now

this is my worst night this is what i was worried about tell me what music league is and are you employed by this company to buzz market this app no

christian i am not all right what is it sunny basically um over the course of i think we do 10 weeks i don't know if that's just standard no no no no no i need you to go back and tell me what is music league because i did not bother to do any homework to find out because why i'm not being paid by them So, Music League is

available through this streaming app where you can sign up with a group of people and you get a prompt every week.

What is it?

A game?

Yeah, it's a game, but there's no prize, really.

It's just, you know, you rack up points and it's for bragging, right?

I suppose.

Okay.

But, all right.

So, you sign, a group of friends sign up, and all the friends get a prompt every week.

And a prompt might be something like,

What's the song that you listened to in high school that you still listen to now?

Okay, Tom Waits, all of them.

Good.

Got it.

That's what I put in.

And then, and then, and then everyone in the team puts in their own answers.

Right.

And then what happens, Suni?

And then there's a voting period, and you have,

we have 10 votes.

You can put them all on one song.

You can distribute them amongst them.

Each person has 10 votes.

Each person has 10 votes.

Oh, it's like if you live in Wyoming.

Something like that.

Very much.

I understand.

And then at the end of the voting period, you get to see the results and who,

and the voting is anonymous.

You don't know which person put in which song.

You just are blindly voting on the song itself.

And then at the end, you get to see which song wins.

You get to see who put in which song.

So you're saying that if Jesse and I were doing

music league and the prompt was name a song that you listened to at high school and I said

Ruby's Arms by Tom Waits, Jesse would put all 10 votes against me to try to deny my reality that I listened to that song simply despite me.

I mean, you would do that, right, Jesse, if you had a chance?

I'm not familiar with the artist, but yes.

There is a down vote option.

We don't use that anymore, but you can have everybody gets 10 votes plus a down vote.

So I would assume in that case.

But it's not something like, tell me a song you remember.

It's like, what is the best?

aha song or what is the best tom waits song and people would vote on that.

It's a matter of opinion, but not a matter of fact.

So the example you gave me, Christian, was very bad.

Well, I think.

Well, they're all kind of a matter of opinion to a certain degree.

Yeah, but Christian said, name a song that you listened to in high school.

That you still listen to today.

Then what happens is you get that playlist and you listen to it and then you vote on which song, whatever your voting criteria are, you vote on the songs or for the songs that you think are either the best interpretation of that prompt or maybe the song you like the best.

The points get tallied up and then somebody wins the round.

Got it.

I think maybe like a better example of a

prompts we had a while ago was a song with a name in the title.

So everyone picks a song with a name in the title.

You get the playlist.

Ruby's Arms, Tom Wafe.

That's one I put in.

Jackie Wilson said it by Van Morrison.

Right.

And then everyone gets that playlist.

They listen to the songs and then they vote for the ones they like the best or think is the best representation.

Or

hold on, I'm changing it.

Jackie Wilson said by Dexi's Midnight Runners.

Come on, Eileen, by Dexi's Midnight Runners.

Well, all right.

So then I understand, I understand the game.

And this sounds like a lot of fun, but I'm not going to say that because I'm not, they're not sponsoring this, and I'm afraid I'm giving them free advertising.

I'm still afraid that both of you are shills for this thing.

It's not actually run by the streaming service.

It's actually just one guy who like created this and gets it out there.

So he wouldn't even be able to pay us or pay me.

But the songs have to be on that streaming service.

Right.

Because that's where the playlist comes from.

Okay.

Well, I like a thing that's built by one guy.

So good job, one guy.

Music League.

Sounds like fun.

So you're part of Music League with a group of friends.

Okay, Sunny, now I understand.

So tell me what happened.

So again, we've been doing this for a number of years.

I think we're on the 18th iteration of this music league.

Members have come and gone, but there's pretty much a solid core group of us who've been doing this since the pandemic.

Yeah.

So we've had a number of

categories.

Some of these prompts we have recycled, reused.

Christian normally comes up with all of them, but sometimes some of us chime in with prompts that we think should be in future leagues.

So anyway, recently in this league, we had a prompt, and the prompt was 2024 Song of the Summer.

And who came up with that prompt?

I did.

Christian did.

Okay, good.

And

so I put in my 2024 song of the summer, which is

Bodyguard by Beyonce.

Bodyguard by Beyonce, very popular song.

Yes.

A true banger.

From an album full of dangers.

Right.

Anyway, I was surprised when the playlist opened up to see that the vast majority of the songs were not from 2024.

Wow.

I would say less, fewer than 50% were from 2024.

The rest were from, I think one went back to like 19, the 70s.

What was that?

Summer Madness by Cool and the Gang?

I don't remember what it was offhand.

That's the one it probably was.

10 votes up for that one.

It was probably Summer Madness by Cool and the Gang.

Summer Madness by Cool and the Gang.

I'm pretty sure it was not that.

Christian, what was your pick?

I honestly don't remember.

There was no way you could have prepared

in my defense.

Did you know you were coming in today?

do you know where you are right now

i remember now it was uh espresso by sabrina carpenter all right that's one that i saw on a list of summer songs when i was trying to do my homework but i didn't listen to it i'm listening to it right now i'm going to tell you if it's a banger or not he's listening he's listening jesse it's a banger confirmed john's dancing you can you can't see that on the audio but i'll be listening to that in my car this summer for sure great 2024 song of the summer possibly.

Doors off, volume up.

What makes a good summer jam, the two of you?

I think it's got to be, it's got to be upbeat.

I would say a, you know, light subject matter, although the song that won, this did not have light subject matter.

What was the song that won?

Heinz Hall by McLemore.

Oh.

The

anti, the protest song that McLemore, of all people, put out.

God.

But yeah, it has to be light, fun, upbeat.

And like, I think it has to be a pop song, whatever that means.

Like, it has to be sort of the type of music that is.

It just means

whatever's on the radio right now.

Jesse, you know music.

What does pop music mean to you?

It used to be R and B music performed by white people.

That definition has expanded somewhat in the last couple of decades.

I mean, I think it is a

it is a topic of much discussion among musicologists and culture studies enthusiasts to say nothing of music critics but I think it tends towards music with a broad appeal

but also it tends towards music that

in a historically raucous context might have been looked down upon which is to say music that appeals to

young women and queer people in particular.

Got it.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

So, Suni, what were some of the songs that surprised you?

Because they weren't from 2024.

I think one of the more surprising ones, we have one member of the league who, whenever possible, will put in a Weird Al Yankovic song.

So, Party of the CIA.

Look, I love Weird Al Yankovic, don't get me wrong.

But that was, so Party and the CIA was one of them.

I have heard that song.

Anyone who's seen this weird dad cruise down a town, cruise down a lane in Maine in an open Jeep listening to that song knows that I know how to get down.

That is truly a song of a summer, for sure.

Of a summer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's 2024.

Right.

Any other, any other, uh, any other ones?

Roger Miller's Summertime in the Summertime by Roger Miller?

There are a few songs that are about summer.

Yeah.

So there's an Iris Dement song called Hotter Than Mojave in My Heart, for example.

Not what I would consider a pop summer song but a song about heat and the desert sure

was it a 2024 song just out of curiosity

1992.

uh were you surprised christian when you saw songs that were not released in 2024 um i i think i was surprised that there were so many that weren't i wasn't surprised that some of them were not from this year

and when you saw these 20 non-2024 songs were you like instant dequalific disqualification do you have that power i do have that power uh i don't think i've ever used it and i did not think i realized you had that power i can here we go wow um i did not uh i didn't think that there was anything wrong with the songs that people had submitted

but soon you did yes and you lost

i did

so you are um a disgruntled person

Well,

is that not true of that?

You're saying the vote was rigged and you deserved to win.

I demand a recount.

Well, I do not recuse myself.

All right.

And with your argument being what exactly, Sunny?

The prompt was 2024 Song of the Summer.

That to me is obvious.

It needed to be a song from 2024.

Not necessarily the best song to listen to this summer, no matter when it's from.

Right.

The best song to listen to this summer from this year.

Yeah, I don't know why I'm making that stupid argument.

That's Christian's stupid argument and all these other people's stupid argument.

I mean, it seems pretty clear, Christian.

How do you defend not disqualifying all these non-2024 songs?

I just feel like I just want everybody to get along.

I mean, if this will do it, I say we can go for it.

Yeah, it's very low, low stress, low stakes.

And so I just wanted to, I didn't feel the need to

call anybody out.

Especially since it seems like a minority of members of the league actually submitted current 2024 songs.

You know, when I was educated in literary theory at Yale University, I was taught that the author was dead by Roland Bart.

So therefore, authorial intention has no meaning.

But I am going to ask it in any case, Christian, because I don't think you're dead.

When you wrote the prompt 2024 song of the summer, what did you have in mind?

What was the framer's intent?

I'm a strict music league originalist.

The framer's intent was a song from 2024 that represents, that is the song for the summer.

Basically,

my intent was what Suny

went with.

Aha.

Aha.

And yet it was within your power to disqualify those people, but you were afraid to because you thought their feelings would be hurt.

Is that not right, Christian?

That is not exactly right.

Well, then tell me what's exactly right.

We've We've never had any sort of conflict in this league.

This started out during the pandemic.

We were all sort of, you know, stuck.

And this was an opportunity to kind of get together, have a little bit of community online when we couldn't be face to face, learn some new songs.

I have another music league that's a lot more cutthroat.

And people say bad things about people's songs.

And so this one was just like a night.

This was just more nice, like, you know, and I will also say that there is a way to express your displeasure and that is don't vote for those songs

you have another music league that you say is more do these music leagues have names uh they sort of i mean this one is called uh mischief and that one is called maserati and i honestly don't even remember why i chose those names you just insist on m-words What was the worst conflict ever in Maserati?

The cutthroat league.

Well, the very first league was actually all the people from what ended up being both of those leagues together.

And after a few rounds, it became very clear that some of those people

were much more

rockist

and sort of serious and were looking for, tended to go with more obscure,

kind of point scoring.

types of songs.

And some of the people were definitely more, hey, this is fun.

Let's put this together.

I don't really want to argue.

I don't want to, you know, say anything bad about anybody other song.

So after that first league, that's when I split him into two so that those of us who wanted to go one way could do that and those of us who wanted to go the other way could do that.

So you're saying Maserati is full of raucous

music snob weird beards who like to paz and jop each other on the head and you wanted to isolate them from the nice people.

Yeah, mischief.

Exactly.

And let me and now let me ask you a question, Sunny.

There had been been a down vote option in mischief, right?

And that you eliminated the down vote option, correct?

Yes.

Was that due to some conflict in mischief?

I don't, I think, actually, when we realized we didn't have to use it, the majority of us were like, yeah, let's not do it because it does feel mean-spirited.

And there were some times I'm like, I may not vote for a song, but I don't want to actually have to downvote a song.

Is mischief the conflict-free utopia that Christian tried to engineer?

I would would say for the most part, yes.

Until now.

Until now.

You're mixing it up.

Why is it important to you?

Because I feel like words have to have meaning.

And 2024's Song of the Summer is a very, like some of the prompts, like,

you know, with a song that you listen to from.

high school, like there's a lot of subjectivity to that.

Right.

And what song, because it could be a song that came out when you were in high school, or it could be a song that you just discovered when you were in high school, but it came out years before.

So

there's a lot more flexibility, wiggle room with that category.

But with a category like this, it's very clear.

2024 Song of the Summer means,

again,

even if it said just Song of the Summer, that's questionable, right?

Typically, I think Song of the Summer means the song of the summer that you are entering.

But that at least maybe could have been a little bit more flexible.

But the fact that it had 2024 Song of the Summer, to me, makes it very clear of what it was supposed to be.

Christian, did you take this take this dispute over to the hipster nitpickers over there in Maserati?

I did not, but

everybody in that league posted a song from 2024.

Oh, so you posted the same prompt to both leagues?

A lot of times I'll do that.

Yeah, the same prompt goes to both leagues.

So they all picked 2024 songs.

Yes.

It would seem like they're speaking with their votes that it should be 2024 songs.

I think that if you are tuned in, no, no pun intended, to sort of the conversations around music, if you're extremely online about music, you know that, or you, you know, you know that song of the summer means a song that's going to be big this summer.

I think if you're a more casual music listener, you're not necessarily knowing that like record companies put millions of dollars into promoting specific songs to be the song of the summer.

You just remember the songs you liked in the summertime.

So you're accusing the folks in mischief of being lovable simpletons

who aren't particularly discerning.

I think that's fair.

But on the other hand, they were the ones who were more creative in their interpretation.

They weren't simply swallowing the music labels propaganda by saying the biggest songs that have been marketed for the summer specifically.

They were coming up with interesting ideas.

Yes, and they also were putting out songs that were from this year, but that weren't

the big pop songs.

They were more sort of underground, rocky kind of stuff that happened to be from this year.

Sounds like Mischief is a pretty cool group of people.

It is.

For the most part.

Yeah.

What is the title you hold running this thing, Christian?

It's probably

Commissioner.

I was going to say, I can call you the Commissioner.

Yeah, probably.

Who elected you Commissioner of Mischief?

I seized the title myself by creating the league.

By the way, Commissioner of Mischief is my favorite metallica album

soony is this all a play for you to become commissioner of mischief oh no i i don't want that responsibility why uh why it seems like you do a good job what does the job entail not much but coming up with a prompt well coming with but i mean i i mean i just basically look at other people's music leagues and find prompts that seem good yeah i mean look at christian he's he's he's commissioning two different music leagues and he's given the same prompts he's lazy wishy-washy it's time for new blood has been 18 leagues 18 leagues

yeah i know i still feel like i don't want that responsibility there are also other like what if i were to rule in your favor under the condition that you take over oh i don't know i don't know if i like that why why are you afraid of leadership oh i'm not afraid of leadership not by any stretch um

but in this case

I don't want to have to deal with people who think they can do a better job than me.

Oh, you think that if I open the door to a power struggle,

you're not going to be able to hold the commissionership for very long because people will be coming after you.

I don't know that anybody else really wants to do it besides Christian.

He's been doing a good job, you know, for the most part.

And he has, you know, you had asked before if there were any other

conflicts, and I actually thought of one.

Go on.

We used to, and again, we've kind of had to abandon this because we've been doing this for so long, but for a while, there was sort of the unofficial rule that you weren't allowed to select a song that had been selected in a previous prompt in a previous round.

Like we had to come up with completely new songs.

So, Christian used to have, and maybe still maintains, a spreadsheet of every song that was submitted for every prompt in the league.

And so, you were supposed to go check that, make sure the song you want to do hadn't been submitted before you submit it.

And if it had been, then people wouldn't vote for it.

We got dinged for it.

In other words,

over 18 iterations,

you were not ever supposed to submit the same song twice?

You were not.

So the league,

when you enter your song, if you've entered it before, it tells you that.

So you can't really put in your own song again.

But we weren't even allowed if somebody, like I couldn't submit a song that Christian had submitted before.

It's important to have these rules, John, because otherwise I'll just submit it's bigger than hip-hop by Dead Prez over and over and over.

But according to Christian, this should be a self-regulating mechanism where you would eventually be downvoted, so it wouldn't matter.

So why do you have this spreadsheet, Christian?

I think to make things a little more, I don't want to say challenging, but to kind of get people to expand their kind of universe of music, it would be easy to go back to the same like favorites all the time, right?

And if a song wins around a previous round, you might be like, oh, I can put that in and I know I'll get points we eventually abandoned that never officially but 18 leagues 10 rounds each 10 people i mean we're well over 1800 songs picked so at a certain point the spreadsheet was getting very long yeah and it was just like nobody wanted to go and like stroll through and say oh somebody did that song but for the most part people don't i don't think resubmit songs very often you know sunny If I were to appoint you Commissioner of Mischief,

you don't have to have a spreadsheet.

Oh, no, I wouldn't.

You can do whatever you want.

Right.

Suni, do you consider your group of friends to be serious about music?

To varying degrees.

I think some are and some aren't.

Christian, I think, is an example of a friend who is serious about music, but not all of my friends are.

What about you?

I think I'm pretty serious about music.

You did not win.

I think I may have come in last that round.

Well, that was my question.

I was just trying to establish if it was just an all, a winner-take-all situation, or if there are rankings ultimately, and just how badly Beyonce was dealt injustice in this situation.

And I also take offense on behalf of Beyonce because, really, come on, that was the right answer.

You know, Weird Al Yankovic is the nicest guy in the world and truly one of the superstars of music.

I mean, a person who enjoys fame across multiple generations and has absolutely earned it.

Obviously, a parodist by trade, but a truly creative genius and someone who, I'm just going to brag,

sends me a perhaps automated, but still heartfelt seeming email on my birthday every year.

I love Weird Al Yankovic.

I will do anything for him, but I would not rank Party in the CIA above Bodyguard for Song of the Summer 2024

under any system of government.

Doesn't that seem like there's something profoundly corrupt in the system, Christian?

It does.

And I will say that actually, Bodyguard did beat Party and the CIA in that round.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I thought I came in last.

Nope.

No, actually, Party and the CIA.

Okay.

No offense, Weirdell.

Wow.

My apologies.

I have a question.

I don't want to ask it indelicately, but I can't think of a different way to ask it.

How old are the people in the Music League?

So the majority of them are about our age,

which is we are Gen Xers.

I think I understand that age range.

There are a few who are a little younger, probably around 40, and then there is the one guy who's like 25.

To what extent do you think that the

song of the summer, the released this year, hot this year, coming out of everyone's car windows song of the summer, is defined by the music tastes of 47-year-olds?

And to what extent do you think 47-year-olds might be sensitive about whether or not they are defining what that song is?

I think it's being defined by 47-year-olds who think they know what 17-year-olds want to hear.

Whether or not they do,

I don't know, but I don't know a lot of 47-year-olds that are listening to espresso on a regular basis.

Real brag from Christian there.

Do you think that the strict adherence to the 2024 rule among the Maserati group may have to do with the fact that those, I'm going to go ahead and say guys

are trying to prove that they know the latest music, whereas maybe in mischief people are a little bit more playful and personal.

And like, I'm going to interpret this in a little bit of a funny way.

To some extent, yeah.

I think that all the guys who are in Maserati

are

really into music in a specific way

that usually involves a guy with a guitar, a guy with a drum, and a guy with a bass, or maybe some keyboards.

And they're looking for

songs that aren't maybe what everybody else is thinking about.

There are, in other words, music fans who consider other people enjoying a song to be a demerit towards that song.

And there are music fans who consider more people enjoying that song to be a positive quality of that song.

I think that's true.

Although I don't want to cast aspersions on the guys in Maserati.

Yeah, what was the top song in Maserati?

Do you remember?

So the song that won 2024 Song of the Summer for Maserati was Starburster by Fontaine's DC.

Okay, never heard of that.

I'm going to take a listen.

I'm going to audition that right now.

Starburster

by Fontaine's DC.

That's a good song.

That is what I would say.

Definitely a rockist song.

That is a banger in the sense of an Irish banger because it's an Irish post-punk band.

Christian, what were you afraid of?

Why were you afraid of bringing down the hammer?

I think that SUNY makes a lot of good points, in particular that one.

Like, why not push mischief a little bit further in the correct direction here?

So I think that the role that mischief plays is doing that wide.

You might want to think about it as wide but not deep versus deep but not wide.

And so I worry that if I...

So you're saying that the group exists solely to suggest new songs for you to listen to?

That's why I started it.

Okay.

Suni, did anyone else express frustration with the outcome of the of the league?

No.

You're the sole malcontent.

Yes.

Well, yes.

I was the only one who said something on the Discord who knows what the other people are thinking.

And when you said something on the Discord, did anyone respond?

Just Christian.

And what was Christian's response?

I will not change the outcome.

It was like, you know, people can interpret it however they want to.

People can interpret it however they want to.

And I will say, for the most part, I agree with Christian.

I think...

For the most part, he's right.

The fact that this is a more laid-back league and that people can be a little bit creative with how they want to respond.

So, for example, there was one league where all the prompts were emojis, and it was great.

Like the way people responded to those, like each playlist, you had no idea what you were going to get.

And it was fun to kind of see, oh, some people put these kinds of songs and other people responded in this way.

Like, that was fun.

I appreciated that.

And for the most part, I appreciate that.

But I do think there is a narrow ruling to be had that if

a prompt includes a year in it.

So, for example, if the prompt had said 1975 Song of the Summer, of course, everyone would have found a song from 1975 to put into it.

If it has a year in it, then that year has to mean something and we have to put songs in from that year.

Yeah, that seems pretty obvious.

Christian,

do you want to continue running this group?

How would you feel if I were to rule that SUNY takes over as Kamish of Mischief?

I mean,

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I'd think that Suni might have a problem with that.

Yeah, I'm letting the record show Suny is making

a lot of noises and a lot of

drawing her

hand across her neck as in, let's shut this down right away.

Suny, you really don't like this.

You really would rather snipe from behind rather than take the lead.

In this case, yes.

Suni, if you don't want to take over, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

Again, I think a very narrow ruling that says that if there is a year in the prompt, we have to, that the year has to mean something, that that is the

we have to select songs from that year.

But I mean, how do we account for the damages so far?

I mean, you're just going to let this go.

I mean, I would like maybe on the Discord, for example, for Christian to publicly say that he should have clarified and that

they should have been songs from 2024.

You want Christian to be a little bit stricter

and a little bit clearer in his instructions, and yet you do not want the grave responsibility of entering things

into a website.

Correct.

What do you think would happen if I were to rule in your favor in the group, right?

And just say, sorry, it's Beyonce.

Everyone's wrong.

What would happen on the Discord if I judged John Hodgman, a person who used to be on television, said, hey.

Excuse me, Discord, your opinions are wrong.

It all should have been 2024 songs.

And of the songs that are left, it's Beyonce.

I'd be fine with that.

No, I know that's how you would feel.

What do you think would happen

with the other people?

Do you think you would face retribution?

Oh, me personally?

Yeah.

I mean, I may face some retribution.

Would there be fallout?

Bringing this.

I don't know what that would mean, though.

Would it turn into a street fight?

No, it wouldn't turn into a street fight.

I think people would be like, yeah,

if that's

what the prompt should be, then yeah, it'd be a fight between Beyoncé and McLemore.

But I think we all know how that would end up.

Well, and if I eliminated all of the non-2024 songs, then we know that there would be at least three.

Yeah.

But I'm just saying it's Beyonce.

Sorry.

Thank you.

My opinion.

It's weird.

I feel like I'm living in a world where Not Like Us by Kendrick Lamar doesn't exist.

Well, I didn't even know that was a nominee.

It wasn't surprisingly.

No.

It should have been, probably.

Everything seems wrong with what happened.

Yeah.

But I'm going to have to figure out how to straighten it out and bring justice to this world.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my LP listening booth at Cutler's Records in the past of New Haven, Connecticut.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Sunny, how do you feel about your chances?

I mean,

I think if the judge hears my plea for just a very narrow ruling about years

mattering, like in the prompts, then maybe I have a chance, but I am a little bit concerned that he's going to make me take over this league.

Yeah, you're obviously shirking the responsibility that you desire in this instance.

You claim it's not your ordinary way of being.

Are there other leadership positions you can point to?

Are you in the Kiwanis or

the Seropthamis?

You should be the president of our local school board.

There you go.

Now we're talking.

Christian, how do you feel?

I wouldn't be surprised if I get ruled against.

I think that, you know, maybe it's the situation of not being clear enough up front that caused this confusion.

And the year thing, you know, the fact that it had a year in the title

probably

should

have been clarified.

So it wouldn't surprise me.

But I mean, I'd love to be considered right also.

That's, you know, also very important to me.

What are you president of?

Nothing.

Nothing.

I'm a, you know, that's too much responsibility.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Sean Hodgman, this may be the single most exciting time in the history of our podcast.

We've been doing this podcast over 35 years.

39 to, I mean, and who's counting?

Yeah.

And this is the peak of Thrill Ride Adventure Time.

The Pasadena Goth Club t-shirts are here, but this is a contest, folks.

That's right.

Two will enter.

Only one will survive.

If you heard last week's program, we created a club for goths in the Pasadena area called Pasadena Goth Club.

It is, of course, welcome.

It's open to non-goths and people anywhere in the world.

All t-shirt wearers are welcome to join and vote with their

porosos.

as to which will be the final and forever Pasadena Goth Club t-shirt design.

We have two designs.

One is a white on black design for our Belisle worshiping audience.

And then we have a Pastel Pasadena themed shirt with the Pie and Burger logo evoked on it as well.

They both say Pasadena Goth Club.

Two great vibes that really encompass both the Goth and the Pasadena in the Pasadena Goth Club.

Get them over at maxfundstore.com.

Here's the deal.

Two-week order window.

During that two weeks, you can get either one of these t-shirts.

Once that two weeks is over,

only the champion t-shirt will remain.

So if you want to ensure that you can get in on this and get your preferred shirt, you're going to have to get it now.

And then, if your shirt wins, you can get it for everybody for Christmas.

In fact, I encourage you to do so.

And you'll be very proud of yourself.

That's right.

After July 1st, the losing shirt will be gone forever.

So go over to the maxfundstore.com and go vote with your torso.

I loved getting to send a text to my friend Brian Fernandez, who designed these shirts,

saying, I like it, but more brutal.

Make it more brutal, I said.

That's the maxfunstore.com.

And hey, everybody, if you're a member of Maximum Fun, thank you, first of all.

And second of all, make sure to keep an eye on the Boco feed because we've got another members-only mailbag coming out at the end of the month.

And this one is a true banjer, banger.

It's a clear and present bonger.

And it's, and it's terrific, and it's just for members.

So

go check it out.

And if you're a member of maximumfund.org, you can send me an email at maximumfund.org slash jjho and say I want to be part of the members only mailbag.

This is a place where we can answer etiquette questions, advice questions,

or just read your comments.

So go, it's a lot of fun.

Members-only mailbag for guess what?

Members only in the Boco feed.

And if you want to become a Maximum Fund member, you can always do it at maximumfund.org/slash join.

Judge Hodgman, at the end of this week's program, I will reveal my not released in 2024 Song of the Summer 2024, officially endorsed by Jesse Thorne.

Yeah.

Right now, I'm going to release my Song of the Winter 2024, not released in 2024, as endorsed by Jesse Thorne.

Okay, let's hear it.

Away in a monger.

Okay, let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Well, I've given it a lot of thought, and I have to say, I obviously share SUNY's distress at the outcome of this particular iteration of Music League.

The prompt was obvious and clear in its intention.

Unfortunately, there had been precedent set where people would just ignore that and put in whatever they wanted.

whatever they felt like listening to this summer.

And because of a lack of oversight and a general wishy-washiness of leadership on Christian's part, that president has been allowed to stand.

And consequently, it has poisoned the results of this year's Song of the Summer 2024

Music League.

That said,

you know,

I feel like it is fairly cowardly of Sunny to come to me, an outsider, to try to invalidate this year's results without her taking on any responsibility going forward.

The fact is, she does not want to be the commissioner of mischief.

Christian is, in all other respects, seems to be a good commissioner of mischief.

I feel like, you know,

double dipping in prompts over different groups feels a little, a little bit lazy, Christian, but I get it.

You probably have some other job than this too that you have to pay attention to.

And for the most part, you're very happy to have him lead unless it doesn't go your way and Beyonce's way.

And frankly, if it doesn't go Beyonce's way, like that's Christian's problem because he's going to get swarmed.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, now the world knows that Christian allowed this to happen.

It's going to be bad news for him.

And you just get to waltz away, SUNY, into the next music league or whatever it is and try again.

I have to say that I don't like the outcome of this, and yet it's done.

What's done is done.

Everything was done by the rules and according to precedent, and Christian had a chance to step in and correct it, chose not to, and you don't want to step up and do it.

And therefore, I have to say that it was properly ruled, even though I don't like the outcome.

Hey, guess what?

Sometimes when an election happens and we don't like the outcome, you just have to acknowledge it rather than try to break into my courtroom and hang me or whatever.

It's just how I see things.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't understand why you're outside of Four Seasons Total Landscaping, SUNY, yelling at the sky.

Oh, no.

No.

This has taken a terrible turn.

You would not believe the flags flying outside Judge Hodgman's house.

Yeah, I now have to fly my half-eaten olive at half-mask in protest for your even bringing this to the court.

But look, I understand

it was wrong.

And Christian, I think, should in future consider

being a little bit clearer in the instructions

because I think that Suni is absolutely correct That, you know, this was an opportunity for the group to explore music that has been released this year rather than try to come up with the funniest or most interesting or most favoritist things that they want to listen to or sneak through.

The funniest interpretation of Song of the Summer is a great prompt so long as it's clear, like

have it be a Song of the Summer, but it doesn't come out in the summer and never says summer.

You know, like whatever it is.

Like that makes for a more interesting prompt.

I'm sorry that no one understood the simple instructions that you gave them, Christian.

And going forward, I hope that you give them more precise instructions so that everyone's playing on the same page and everyone has a good time.

I'm not going to order you to rerun this particular league because what's done is done.

We move forward in this lifetime, moves in one direction, despite what some of the people in your group want to believe they listen to old songs during the summer when obviously you wanted a new song for the summer.

But I have not yet pronounced my sentence, and here it is.

This is my sentence and my verdict.

You're going to run Song of the Summer 1975.

That's a great idea, Sunny.

That's what it's going to be.

Can't be 1974 because that's Summer Madness by Clueland Gangli Alvis Winner.

1975 Song of the Summer, any song that was released during and or in the run-up to the summer of 1975.

Run it and put me down because I want to be a part of it.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Hey, happy this summer.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

christian you're vindicated how do you feel

i feel pretty good i think that that's a pretty good i i like the uh i like the the i think that the fair uh ruling i understand the you know that it was the previous rule the previous round maybe if i had done something differently we wouldn't have had this problem but uh i think that i will take the the judge's

recommendation and just be a little more specific on prompts uh as long as i can find a a way to do that and still not stifle the creativity of the group.

Suni, how do you feel?

So interestingly enough, I also feel somewhat vindicated because I think the judge clearly agrees with the interpretation of the prompt the way I saw it.

And so that is,

you know, I feel good about that.

But I'm also a little tiny bit confused.

Did the judge just give us prompts for our next league?

I believe so.

That's kind of amazing.

I love that.

Thank you.

Thank you both for joining us on the judge john hodgman podcast thank you thank you

another judge john hodgman case is in the books uh before we get to swift justice our thanks to redditor great muppet kvetcher for naming this week's episode it's a good one all reddit names are good at least that we've ever read that's right but i think that we have a i think we have a special selection of especially good reddit names because they're also the people who come up with the dumb puns that name our episodes.

Yeah, I mean, as someone who is on the record for disliking puns and wordplay in general, I love going to the Reddit to see what people suggest for titles.

They're all so funny and clever, I have to say.

And it's a shame we can only pick one of them.

MaximumFund.reddit.com is where you should do it.

That's where we ask for our title suggestions.

Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram account at judgejohnhodgman.

They are also on maximumfun.org if you go to this episode's page, if you don't have social media.

We're also on TikTok and YouTube at judgejohnhodgman pod, where you can watch John's.

This is the only popular genre of YouTube videos, so I'm glad we got into it.

John's old man music react

videos.

What?

Yeah, this is like the top with the top genre of music because I made my grandpa listen to this Beyoncé song.

And it's just an outrageous grandpa saying stuff, saying what they think of this Beyonce song they'd never heard.

Oh, look, if I were a real entrepreneur, I would do

a video channel where

our children react to me singing roll out the barrel.

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So

if you're looking to get a message to me, that's one way to do it.

Hey, thank you to Phelps of Restarting over on Apple Podcasts.

Phelps of Restarting is a listener who gave us a five-star rating.

They say that Judge John Hodgman is their favorite podcast.

They recommend it to friends and family members.

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Liking, subscribing, smashing buttons, leaving reviews.

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Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode engineered by Max Fabian at Tightrope Recording in Chicago, Illinois.

Our social media manager is Natty Lopez.

The podcast is produced by A.J.

McKeon.

Our video editor is Daniel Speart.

Natty and Daniel both sitting in on the recording this week.

Hi, Daniel.

Daniel's here be on the other side of the window.

Natty Natty is secretly hiding in the video conference.

Our producer, Jennifer Marmer, now Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Mean Adeptness4998 on the MaxFun subreddit says, I want to get a minivan to accommodate our need for cargo space and low loading deck for pets.

My wife thinks it's weird for childless couples to have a minivan.

She's also worried that I will have it painted with a big cool wizard or maybe have it painted like the A-Team van.

She's right, I would, but I don't think that's enough to nix the minivan.

Should we get a minivan?

You know, I got into a minivan last night to take me to another part of the city.

And I was like, why do people hate on minivans?

This is great.

Very comfortable ride.

So versatile.

I understand that they're associated with non-coolness, mean adeptness wife.

I get it.

It doesn't feel cool to be in a minivan, especially if you don't have kids.

But this does seem like a reasonable car for you.

And it does seem that it would be helpful with

your animal children as well.

So I'm going to say you should give it a try.

And if you're worried about it not being cool, I have the solution for you.

Don't paint a wizard on it.

Don't paint it like the A-team.

Paint a post-apocalyptic landscape on it.

And hovering over it is a skull head, and it's winking at you.

And in gothic lettering, it says Commissioner of Mischief.

That's a cool minivan all right we love hearing disputes between friends suni's one of our rare litigants that we've had on the show twice and both times she has sued a friend uh i hope that i hope everything's going well in her friend groups but she's not the only one beefing with her pals i know there are other friend groups out there who get into the same debate over and over and over again and want it settled once and for all and now is your chance to have that happen is your friend group split about where your next hang should be maybe you're all going to go on a trip together and you don't know where to go did your best friend call you the rhoda to her Mary?

Even though you know that you are the Mary?

And who's the Phyllis, by the way?

And what am I even talking about, says Generation Z.

Did one of your friends Venmo request everyone for something so absurd that no one wants to pay?

Send me your friend group disputes at maximumfund.org slash jjho.

This means you, my mother-in-law Beth and her friends from high school that go on a trip every five years together.

Yeah, I want to hear from your mother-in-law, Beth, for sure, and the whole friend group.

And I want to hear all of your disputes, right, Jesse?

MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho is the place to send them into us.

John, I got a non-2024 song of the summer 2024 for you.

Let me hear it.

It's Low Rent Rendezvous by Ace Spectrum.

Okay, I'm writing it down.

Yeah.

Everybody, enjoy that.

Ace Spectrum, pet detective.

Got it.

Ace Spectrum.

Ace Spectrum.

I wrote it down.

Spectrum.

Check it out on YouTube.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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