Star Witnesser

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Star Witnesser, Doreen brings the case against her husband, Xiong.

Xiang is a classical pianist.

He wants Doreen to be there when he greets the audience after his shows.

She feels awkward.

They thank her for his performance.

Doreen would rather skip the meet and greet and read a book.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

I will speak for you, Bailiff Jesse.

I speak for all the mediocrities in the world.

I am their champion.

I am their patron saint.

Mediocrities everywhere.

I absolve you.

I absolve you.

I absolve you.

I absolve you all.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever?

Yes.

Yes.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he himself is a woodwind?

Yes.

Yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

I am not merely a woodwind, having played the clarinet until the age of 18, but also a string, having played the viola at the same time.

Never simultaneously, though.

I will dispel that myth right now.

I thought it was an America's Got Talent situation.

No, I would alternate between them.

In any case, two great party instruments.

I just wanted to be liked at a party.

Viola or clarinets, the only way that people love when you take out a viola at a party.

Doreen and Xiang, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment.

And one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom.

Doreen, do you have a guess?

Episode 19 of season three, Frazier.

Episode 19 of Season 3 Frazier.

Hang on, I got to write that down.

Ep 19 S3 Fraze.

And for the first time, I am actually writing it down.

You can check on YouTube.

I did write it down.

Didn't just scribble.

Why that one?

Well, Frazier loves classical music.

True.

This episode is about classical music-ish.

So that's my prepared guess as best as I can.

If I were to give you another another hint, you're welcome to take another guess.

You can think about it while I'm asking Xiong.

But the other hint is this is a movie about classical music.

Xiong, what's your guess?

I feel like I've seen this recently.

I'm going to say it's going to be the movie Tar.

Tar?

About the famous fictional conductor, Lydia Tarr?

Right.

That's right.

I'll write down Tar.

I even wrote it down for real.

Frasier, Season 3, episode 19, Crane versus Crane.

Frasier and Niles have a courtroom face-off over the question of a wealthy eccentric's sanity.

That's a really good one because

that's a courtroom-themed Frasier.

And this is a courtroom-themed Hodgman.

Seems like we're dealing with a regular Emily Heller here.

But I'm going to tell you, Doreen, right off the right off the bat, that the Frasier guess is wrong, as you know, because it's a movie.

Can you think of any other movie themed to classical music?

Pianist?

The pianist.

It's a good guess.

I'm writing it down.

Out of respect for your wonderful good guesses, I'm writing them all down, but I'm also throwing this notebook on the floor because all guesses are wrong.

And I need to get that notebook again in case I need to take notes.

But we'll leave it there on the floor for a moment while I say, of course, from 1984 Zamadeus.

Oh, I thought that would be too obvious.

I worried that it would be too obvious.

We psyched each other out.

We psyched ourselves out and we psyched each other out.

That was my prepared guess.

It was your prepared guess.

And if you had only guessed correctly, we could all go home.

But instead, we have to hear this case.

That is, of course, the famous closing lines of the film

performed by F.

Murray Abraham and his Oscar winning performance as Salieri.

Mediocrities everywhere.

I absolve you.

Boy, oh boy, did that.

I mean, what does it say?

I was 13 years old when that movie came out.

And when Salieri was absolving all the mediocrities on earth, I was like, I feel that.

Thank you.

I take your absolution.

What did I know?

What did I know or think about myself at the time?

If you have not watched Everyone in the World, they're making a new TV show out of it

with Paul Bettany, who's terrific as Salieri.

But I mean, Milos Foreman's adaptation of the Peter Schaefer play, Amadeus, a screenplay written by Peter Schaefer.

Very few movies are as beautiful, look as beautiful, or sound as beautiful.

And of course, it's about, it's about a superstar classical pianist, composer.

I mean, you've heard of him, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

Judge Hodgman, do you know what the F in F.

Murray Abraham stands for?

No.

Fart.

Fart Murray Abraham.

Fart Murray Abraham.

No.

That's why he uses the initial.

And one guy who definitely wanted to be at the meet and greet every single time.

Salieri.

But Doreen does not want to be at the meet and greet.

So let's get into the case.

Doreen, you seek justice in this court.

Tell me a little bit about your husband Xiang and what kind of music he performs.

He is a classical pianist, so solely plays piano, classical.

Right.

And would it be fair to say he's a superstar?

Yeah, in the household.

In the household.

Right now, you are living in northern Florida, correct?

Correct.

And that's where you're based.

But where do you perform, Xiang?

Well, so I teach at the University of Florida.

So besides teaching, I'll perform in different universities throughout the country.

And every other years, I'll go back to Taiwan, where we're both from, and I'll give some concerts there.

I'm going to go ahead and say you're a superstar pianist.

Not like Mozart.

Nobody can compare to mozart yes what if you were on this podcast going like yeah i'm about as famous as mozart

as famous as talented as mozart then i'll be really famous maybe yeah you'll be very famous doreen what do you what do you do what do you do all day long i work at home i'm a product manager for a software company and when you go and see your husband xiang perform what normally happens after the show 35 minutes standing ovation obviously

maybe 30 minutes okay

Usually after the show,

people will either like get together or line up at the front door or in the backstage to greet him and tell him about his playing and like how much they enjoy it or yada yada.

That's usually what happened after the recital.

And what do you do during this time if you're at the concert?

Usually.

We've been together for about 12 years.

In the latter eight years or so, usually I will sit in the audience space continually while the space got empty.

I'll just really read a book there until the space empty and then I will go out and find him.

Usually that's when the meet and greet kind of like done.

So that's what's been happening in the

latter few years of your marriage.

Way back when, when you first got married and the spark was still there,

Xiang,

what would Doreen do during the meet and greet?

Would she sit in the audience reading a magazine or a book or what?

She was

more likely to

stand either beside me or somewhere behind me as the people came up.

And I must admit, in the early time of our courtship, one thing I find a little awkward to do with strangers to introduce

the people I'm with or introduce people to them um so sometimes i will forget to introduce to the audience who this person standing behind me is

and i think that made doreen feel uh quite awkward and uncomfortable but i just assumed that

people would know

and and after a while i think she also figured out that really nothing much

is really that interesting being communicated through these meet and greet.

And perhaps she thought there's a better use of her time.

That's interesting, Shang.

You've made a very good case for her blowing off the meet and greet.

When in fact, why you're in court now, because you would like her to hang out with you during the meet and greet.

That's right, because

she's such an important part of my life.

And I believe the reason, one of the reasons that I can perform well is due to her contributions.

And I wouldn't mind, you know, let her also share the spotlight um and uh i think people are often interested to find out about a little bit more about me rather than just right this person playing a piano for an hour no it's so you can sort of say i don't just i'm not just a superstar classical pianist as famous as mozart

i also am married to this beautiful woman that's right there are many elements to xiang many level many levels yes i will if i could I would like to show them my Lego sets as well.

Xiang, if you had a top five things that you could show them.

So beautiful wife, Lego sets,

of course, handsome pianist.

That's three.

So what are the other two things?

You got any other stuff with Pride of Place in your house you'd like to show off and show and tell?

Well, I have some baseball bobbleheads.

Yeah.

Cool.

What's your favorite bobblehead?

I'm a Red Sox fan, so I grew up with Normar Garcia-Para as my favorite player.

So I have a couple of his stadium giveaway

bobbleheads.

I get it.

I get it.

Ben Harrison's parents once got me an E40 bobblehead in San Francisco Giants close.

Okay.

What's number five?

So you got bobbleheads, Lego, handsome pianist, beautiful wife.

That's four.

What's number five?

I guess we like to cook, so we have a good collection of cookbooks,

including

the friends of the podcast, Kenji Lopez.

Sure.

Kenji Lopez also.

Yeah.

Great.

This is not my beautiful wife.

This is not my Nomar Garcia bobblehead.

How did I get here?

You want something to express your amazement at the good fortune you've had in this world?

That's right.

Just like a talking head song.

It's Nomar Garcia Para, Judge Hodgman.

And it's pronounced Noma.

Here, let me do it again.

This is not my beautiful wife.

This is not my Noma, Garcia Para bobblehead.

Noma.

How did I get here?

Noma.

Noma.

Judge Hodgman and I are from Massachusetts.

You want to express your amazement at the beauty of the world that you inhabit?

Yes.

And it's on, yes, exactly.

Just like a talking head song.

Why don't you have David Burns standing by?

Now that I think about it.

A beautiful man, a beautiful artist, I'll respect to the end of time, but he does make a room a little awkward.

I'll stand by that.

I'm going to stand by that.

He'd tell you the same.

He told me that when he was on Bullseye.

Yeah, I think he would too.

Wonderful man.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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So, Doreen, you mentioned that part of the thing that makes it awkward when you do stand by the meet and greets is that people thank you for Xiang's performance.

Tell me about that.

Yes.

Usually what happen is when I stand next to him, After people say, well, we really enjoy your playing, this piece and that piece.

It's like so beautifully played and this and that.

And when they saw me, they will immediately also say, thank you so much.

And then we really enjoyed the concert and, you know, all the praise and all the kind words and all of that.

But I feel incredibly weird and I don't know how to respond when people thank me for his performance.

How do you know they're not thanking you for your expert project managing?

Maybe that's true because I did create some of his concert posters.

There we go.

But it's because

judge, I'm not a musician myself, so I don't, I don't even have rhythm.

So when people thank me for his performance, which I literally really genuinely think I didn't contribute anything, I didn't play a note or helping practice or like nothing.

It just feels very awkward when people non-stop thanking me one after one, say, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

I don't know what to respond.

And after after a while i'm just like oh it's probably better i'm not there let me stop you right there doreen and say you're a liar because i know i know that you have rhythm this is a little behind the scenes here at the podcast but you know when we start the podcast we have to do something called slate where each of the parties on a separate recording jesse over there in los angeles me here in brooklyn and Doreen and Shang in Gainesville, Florida at the studio, have to clap loudly into the microphone like this.

Guard your ears.

And that helps our editor sync up the audio.

And you have to do it to, you know, we look, we watch a clock countdown and we do it to synchronize the clock and the recording.

And I said, what did I say, Doreen, after you clapped real loud?

Well, you said, that's a fantastic clap.

And you say, you never lie, but then Jesse said, you always lie.

No, I say.

In that case, it was the truth, though.

That really was a good.

I always say that was the best slate ever, but this time I was telling the truth.

Like you clapped at the exact right time.

And I know a lot of people don't do it.

They don't do it as good as you.

So you're a really good one clapper at least.

And I suppose that that's a kind of rhythm.

So don't sell yourself short.

Doreen, I have a question about this meet and greet line.

So I used to work on a radio show called West Coast Live in the Bay Area.

And one time,

this is my only experience with classical musicians, basically, but one time a famous pianist named Long Long came through and he played on the show.

And

it was a show before a live audience.

And so there was like a meet and greet afterwards.

Maybe there was 100 people in the audience or 80 people in the audience.

And these elderly people lost their minds.

I had no idea that someone playing Chopin or whatever inspired this like Beatles level of passion in the audience.

So obviously, like when you're greeting a classical music audience, maybe they're patrons, you know, maybe they're important people from the university or from the arts organization that's, that's brought your husband in, but like, what is the vibe of

those people that are waiting in line to meet your husband?

And I'll also stipulate.

I can see on the video that your husband is a hunk.

I'm just going to stipulate that.

Yeah.

Well,

depends on the occasion.

So, for example,

sometimes at university, the vibe, if there are younger students and

younger generations, the vibe is, you know, like a little mini fan kind of like actions.

Or if it's in a community, for example, at a concert he play in Salt Lake City, it's more mature audience.

And the vibe, Vivets just, you know, they want to talk about the process he practiced, how he play or how he interpreted.

So it really varies.

But in general, the Vivets

very enthusiastic as like

very

recharged almost.

Like they enjoy a good concert and they take in a lot of good vibe or good cultural nutrition.

And it's always very, very appreciative from the audience.

So it's

no one in the audience is ever coming up going hey i got a few uh i got a few uh critiques for you occasionally occasionally oh okay they will someone will say well i used to play piano and uh i know i know that piece very well um and someone's recording uh you should check it out

I was gonna, I just presumed that it was universal phrase all the time that Doreen was bored of it.

I was trying to establish, was there ever any drama where the person would say, you, sir, are no Wolfgang amadeus mozart well they probably just would not waste their time standing in line they'll just leave probably you'd be surprised you would be i would surprise and i have had some contrary experiences let's just say i have had people i i can think of one person in particular who came up after the meet and greet and basically told me uh my career choices have been very bad for the past 10 years yeah he gave us some really really thoughtful outline really instructive feedback as to what I had done wrong in my career.

Well, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

That's very kind of you to say.

This is what I wanted to know, though, Doreen.

Do you ever experience thirstiness for your husband?

Are you ever made uncomfortable in part because

not just that you have to be friendly to people, but that it is a weird situation to watch your husband be a star to others,

whether their interest is romantic or otherwise.

There's different kinds of thirstiness.

No, but and to go back to the question Judge asked earlier, is he a superstar?

Yes, to me, he's absolutely a superstar.

He has a mini following locally whenever he plays and this and that.

Took you a long time to correct yourself there.

I asked that question a long time ago.

And you're like, in the household, he's pretty famous.

Obviously, he's been weighing on you.

You're like, I got to mention this mini following.

I've been checking my time.

Like, okay, it's time to correct that.

Yeah.

But to answer your question, Jesse, is that?

No, I mean, it's always.

It's always nice to see him because it's a lot of work he put in, a ton of work.

It's always nice to see the positive feedback and this and that.

But what's always

also

weird is like, not only people will thank me, people also ask me, what do you play?

And I am not a musician.

And I always say I play the audience row, which is important.

And

you literally play the claps.

Yeah.

That's right.

You should just say settlers of Catan.

Let me ask you a question, Xiong.

When you perform a concert, you're playing piano, right?

Right.

You use all 10 fingers?

Yes.

She's right, Jesse.

It's a lot of work.

Spin it all off.

But most of the time I do play by memory.

And

with a regular teaching schedule, it can be pretty demanding.

And we're all not getting any younger.

So

that does take a toll as well.

Of course, I was not trying to suggest it isn't hard work to be a classical pianist.

It's incredibly, I mean, you studied and you practice and

you perfect your technique and your musicianship and you deserve all the accolades that you receive.

It just seems to make Doreen uncomfortable for some reason.

Doreen, what happened in New Hampshire?

Well, there are a couple of things.

One is because I've been hiding in the audience space for a couple of years and he hasn't been complaining about it much.

But at New Hampshire, where we used to live for a couple of years, where he used to teach,

At that occasion, I continued doing my hiding ritual

and afterward he got really upset.

He was like, you are nowhere to be found.

Lots of people are looking for you, lots of friends.

And I was like, hey, Doreen's here, where is she?

And

the meet and greet took a much longer time than usual, I would say.

And after that,

he just expressed like, I really wish you were there.

And

he also brought up a few past concerts.

I wasn't at the meet and grie, and then that's when I learned I he actually prefer I am at the meet and grief so

we we just kept talking about like then why why do you need me to be there and this and that so that's kind of what sparks the case.

Xiong, how did you feel when Doreen ghosted you in New Hampshire?

Well, so

we

this is an unusual situation where I I was invited back to a place I used to work.

And it's a place we're very fond of.

And most of the people who came backstage were people we know, former students, former colleagues, and also friends.

And I should also explain that this is a concert venue inside of a music building.

And as it is a very old structure, so there really wasn't a green room nearby.

So all my stuff is locked away in an office far

from the backstage.

So I wasn't able to just text Doreen quickly.

And after a while, I actually seriously wondered what happened to her.

Did she get lost in the building?

They were worried.

That's right.

Yeah.

And it was a pretty long time.

So I thought she...

uh could have come look for me i mean of course as she said people were um asking about her and a lot of people knew uh we traveled together for this occasion.

So that's why.

So it sounds like it moved from a little bit of missing her to a little bit of social embarrassment because your friends were asking after her and you didn't know where she was.

And then ultimately, sheer panic, maybe she had disappeared or left you or gone into an alternate dimension or something.

Or she found the concert to be so.

unappetizing that she decided to just go back to the hotel if possible

I understand.

And how does it feel, aside from the lack of panic,

how does it make you feel when she is standing with you during the meet and greet?

I generally found her presence to be very calming for me.

And after the concert, usually I could get pretty exhausted and very sweaty.

And

as I'm sure you all know,

it is still part of the performance, still part of the work.

To do a meet and greet after when you do one.

Yes.

It's tiring.

It can be,

but I'm also curious to find out about people.

And I think.

Well, that's where you and I are different.

For me, it is an entirely robotic performance because I'm not curious about people, nor do I want to do it, but I know it's expected of me.

So I go bleep, bloop.

Thank you very much for coming.

Right after we get off stage, John and I look at each other and we say, we've got another show to do.

Yeah.

We stop listening and start performing again.

Yeah.

Not true.

I enjoy the meet and greets very, very much.

Everybody who's come to meet and greet us, we really love it.

But I mean, you know,

it's a lot of time with a human being.

And, you know, people are there.

They want to express their...

not only their thanks to you, but they want to maybe express what your performance made them feel.

And you have to hold space for them, as they say in contemporary parlance.

It's, you know, you have to be, you have to be very open and you have to take a lot in when you're doing it.

And that's why if I were Doreen, I would get the hell out of there.

Well, that's when I think she could actually

be a positive being there.

She could maybe share some of the conversations and

help the line to move along,

things like that, that could, you know, be beneficial.

A little bit half emotional support, half personal assistant is that what you're saying doreen's very caring and she assists with many uh other factors uh in my life um if the courting is interested i'll be happy to share the short answers yes

yeah

like if she were to if she were to help like facilitate moving the line along and getting people going and so forth and helping you in a personal assistant capacity how much would you pay her

you're gonna pay her in bobbleheads sir i don't i don't think that worth anything to her.

Doreen, are you an introvert?

Haven't have.

I grew up as an extrovert.

The older I am, the more introvert I become.

I used to work in marketing, so I kind of have a switch.

I can turn it on and off.

So a lot of times when we talk about the meat and greed,

at least in this New Hampshire occasion, is

we talk about, well, if I'm there, like what function do you want me to be?

Are am I capturing people's information and

doing a little bit of relationship building?

Or like,

that's all right.

But, like, usually nowadays, especially I work from home,

I think, introvert as most part.

And as you,

Your Honor, like, I'm an only child myself.

Great.

I think I know everything I need to know to make my decision.

I need to know the rules.

I like to follow them.

If I'm there, what are the rules?

What should I do?

I like that Chiang wants Doreen to be his producer/slash personal assistant.

Doreen is like, let me project manage this thing.

She's like, I got a database I'm working on.

Let's put some information into it.

How often does it happen that you are by yourself versus when you guys are traveling together?

It varies ear to ear.

This past 12 months, surprisingly, she came to maybe 70% of my solo performances.

So it looks like she likes you.

I hope they'll judge.

Just enough.

Just enough.

Just enough.

Famous in the household.

And he has a mini following.

That's true.

A mini following.

Local mini following.

uh do you feel like when she's not there that this somehow reflects on you poorly xiang no not at all i mean i'm capable of handling the meat and greed uh

and again it's also a case-by-case right

when we went back to taiwan this past summer

I think one of the reasons she doesn't really want to be standing around because there's a lot of

friends of my parents.

And

Chinese people have a way to like ask very

a little bit intruding personal questions like when are you going to have a kid and things like that.

And

I think she just felt a little more uncomfortable.

Doreen, when do you feel more uncomfortable at the meet and greet?

When it's a bunch of strangers thanking you for Shang's performance and sort of awkwardly fumbling around for conversation with people you don't know, or when it's friends in New Hampshire or family in Taiwan and they know a lot about you and they're just gonna really get into it with you.

About the same, but for a different reason.

So, all people, you hate all people.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, kind of.

Doreen just flipped the switch.

Well,

when it's people appreciating him and then thanking me,

I generally don't know how to respond.

Like literally, when people say thank you for the performance,

I just like freeze.

I just don't know what should I respond.

And usually I just say, oh, thank you for coming.

That's literally the only line I feel appropriate to respond to that.

Cause I'm profoundly proud of his performance, but there shouldn't be any credit to me.

really because I did not think for what's happening on that stage.

So that's one.

And then for families in Taiwan, that's just culturally, you know, like people in Taiwan tend to ask a lot of personal questions and don't know how to respond to some of the like really personal questions.

And

to that degree, it feels like, oh, okay, then it's not about PR or marketing social engagement, right?

It's really about family get together and know the personal details and things like that.

And that's, that's slightly different than talking about performance.

In a non-family context, where it's people just saying, thank you for his performance, thank you for whatever it is, and you feel awkward because you don't know what to say.

Have you considered just sitting there with your book and a piece of paper that says, I am not a musician, I am very proud of my husband.

Thank you for coming.

That is, that is my prepared statement, and that is all I will say.

I

kind of did in some degree.

Like,

I will have

people say, I'm glad like you enjoyed the performance.

Thank you for coming.

But I, and that's it.

And usually the conversation runs dry right after that because there's really not much to go on.

And like, and usually what happened next is they will ask me, like, what do you play?

Like, what instrument?

And that's why I say put a piece of paper and say, don't ask me about music.

I don't know anything.

I'm a really good clapper.

John Hodgman said so.

But otherwise,

ask me a question about anything else.

My first thought was get a t-shirt printed, but now I'm imagining maybe one of those tall, skinny pop-up tents that you use to change at the beach or like try on clothes at the flea market.

Is it?

Do you feel left out of the classical music circles and appreciators?

I mean, Doreen, do you even like classical music?

Oh, good question.

Oh my God, you're terrible.

I do.

I mean, I'm not knowledgeable in it.

I'll be the first to admit.

Something we do a lot at home, which really scares and annoys me, is that whenever there's a classical piece comes up at any movie,

he will pause and say, what's the piece?

Who composed it?

Oh, no.

And then I will have to guess.

Again, I'm not.

a musician by any like not at all and i'll guess let's say japan or wc or whatever Um, and then if it's off, you will say, Oh my god, you're 100 years off, it's completely a different style, or

or you're 100 years off

from now on.

I'm not saying all guesses are wrong anymore, I'm saying uh, you're all 100 years off.

No matter what the piece is, I'm guessing a fifth of Beethoven.

Yeah,

You know the disco version?

Yes, of course.

Yes.

Yeah.

You could, yeah.

Just, I guess you didn't, I guess you didn't want to sing along with me, but that's fine.

It's cool.

It's fine.

It's not a big deal.

Honestly, 50% of the time is WC's Claire de Lune.

And then

50% of all movie soundtracks, WC's Claire de Loon.

Let that sink in.

And

then another, maybe 25% would be Chopin's raindrop preludes or one of the nocturne.

Who's your favorite?

What kind of pieces do you love to perform?

My three favorite composers are Bach, Chopin, and Debussy.

Anything by them, you'll do it.

50% of the time.

Yeah, I mean, I've devoted my life to it, and I find it to be endlessly enriching and challenging.

What's the hipster choice, though?

Like,

I've heard of them.

What would you say if you wanted to impress a classical music enthusiast about who your favorite was, even if they were like actually your sixth favorite?

Yeah, what's your deep cut?

Any weird ones?

The American composer William Balcombe.

Great.

He wrote

great racks and also very modern and but very pianistic composition that are impressive and also very entertaining.

Say the name again because I don't know this one.

I'm going to look at it.

William Balcombe, B-O-L-C-O-M.

And we'll bleep this out if you don't want it out there, if you don't want it on the websites.

But what composer is just trash?

I never really liked

Mendelssohn myself.

Yeah, come on, Mendelssohn.

He wrote.

You're right.

I love his violin concerto.

Oh, sure.

He's great for violin concertos.

Everybody loves the violin concerto.

I mean, the rest of it isn't saying anything against the violin concertos, but

it's just

hang on, Zan.

I got to have order in this court.

Hey, fart Murray Abraham.

You're 100 years off.

All right.

Take it down a thousand with the fart noises.

Pale of Jesse.

I love it.

Shouldn't have brought up Mendelson if you shut your fart hole.

Yeah.

The Bronx cheer to come out.

The horn section's out here for Mendelssohn.

I gave you another chance.

Xiang, have you ever done that thing where you stand up while you're playing and then you kick the bench behind you like Jerry Lee Lewis?

I've once

at the Lathcore and I just stood up and

pushed the bench back.

Yeah, I did that quite carefully, thoughtfully.

For those of you who are interested, of course, we're going to have a link to Xiang performing some of his favorite composers on the show page.

If there is such a recording that exists, have you ever been recorded before Scheung, or do you refuse to be recorded?

No, I actually have two solo albums.

Wonderful.

What are they called?

Uh, the first one's called Bestiary on Ivory, it's a city of all solo piano works inspired by animals.

Bestieri on Ivory, and the other one is called Mendelssohn Sucks.

But then, what would I put on there?

Well, so anything but Mendelssohn, it's called, yeah,

that's right.

So, it's all Chopin.

It's all Chopin.

All Chopin, all the time.

100%.

That's right.

100% Chopin.

What's your favorite music to listen to, Doreen?

I actually play a lot of classico when I'm at work and just doing like quiet work.

And I also play a lot of Beatles,

jazz,

and yeah, sometimes trying like Taiwanese pop and old A's and things like that.

What's a Taiwanese pop group that I should be listening to that you love?

Because I got William Bolcom here that I got on my work list i am a solid fan of mayday

uh mayday yeah so that's a band that i grow up with i got i wrote it down i really wrote it down i'm gonna listen to these i kind of need to separate like going to taiwan and dealing with family is kind of a separate issue because that's just family

you then there's also feeling out of sorts with the with uh xiang's professional circle of musicians because what are you going to talk to them about mayday

they're all over here going like does Mendelson suck?

Sure, does.

What about that guy?

And you're like,

what about is Paul dead or not?

The Beatles, remember, or whatever.

But in terms of just sort of generic

performance for a regular audience, not burdened with the extra charge of family or professional colleagues, it says here, Sean, that you would like Doreen to feel more comfortable when she is thanked for your work.

Because, and this is a quote, Doreen,

he wouldn't be playing the same way without her.

That's very touching.

That's very touching.

Can you expand upon that a little?

Well, I believe an artist, the performance has everything to do with his or her or their lives.

And

I myself

always find it difficult to compartmentalize or separate my emotion from one thing to another.

So

Doreen's support and love and also

the various

things that she takes care of in my life

really

helped me to be able to focus and

play

the best to my ability.

And I think that's not

something that one should take for granted.

And I feel very lucky to have that.

Doreen, how do you feel when you hear that said into a microphone in a studio in Gainesville, Florida for the world to hear?

Well, it's very endearing.

And

I feel very loved by hearing that.

And, you know, like it's it's a lot to to be a classic musician, right?

You just love things

and it's it's nice to know like those are being appreciated.

And

I mean, very good partners and we take care of things like together in the household.

So yeah, it's it's very nice.

Great.

I'm glad you love each other, but that doesn't change your mind.

I take it, Doreen, you'd still like to blow off the meet and greet if you.

Well, it's also about, like I said, I like rules.

If you give me, I'll follow them.

I want to know if I need to be there.

If I am there,

what should I do?

What role should I play?

Like, what's what's my task?

You feel that this has not been clear

on a case-by-case basis.

You're not sure what it is that Shang would like you to do while he's meeting his public.

Yes, yes.

I mean, early days when we first started dating, this did happen.

One of the earliest recitals I attended, that I literally just stand next to him and he didn't know how to introduce me.

Again, that's very early dating days.

And I just kind of stood there the whole time and not knowing what I should do.

Like, who am I?

And people kind of look at me like, who are you?

But of course, later in our live, like people do know who I am and or could have guessed.

Still, I just want to know what's my role at each occasion ahead of time.

And then I can, then I will turn on the switch.

Okay, my role here is

and then I'll get us done.

Jesse Thorne made a comment that you might want to project manage the meet and greet.

Is that true?

I don't think the audience can be project managed.

Oh, I highly disagree.

Oh, I mean, there are all kinds of ways that you can communicate expectations to an audience, both on stage and at the meet and greet after, some of which are just saying like, hey, we only have 30 minutes.

So, you know, you know, please be mindful of the people behind you in line.

Or, you know, for example, if you wore wore a very professional suit and stood behind

Xiang,

people would just presume that you're security, you know, and

they wouldn't be,

they wouldn't necessarily be thanking you for his performance.

And you might be able to keep things moving along on time by like taking pictures or saying, okay, that's all the time we have.

really project managing it.

And I don't know, I'm just trying to get a sense of like, is that something you inherently want to do?

Is like, is to manage it for him or not?

And the answer, no, is a great answer, by the way.

I'm just trying to figure it out.

Probably not, but I do think a suit is a good idea.

Yeah, no one wants to talk to someone wearing a suit.

Yeah, and probably sunglasses and a weapon of some kind.

Yeah.

Conspicuous weapon.

Yeah, I'm putting like in a little earpiece.

That's right.

I was just thinking.

Do you need Shang, do you need help at the meet and greet, whether it's Doreen's help or someone else's help to move things along?

In the larger performance, yes.

Although sometimes in those situations, there will be someone there as well to make people stay in line and

help with pictures.

Right.

So

I would say, you know, that's not something I really

would ask.

or require Doreen to do.

I don't think that should be the reason that

she will be there during the meet and greet.

I just wish she would just enjoy herself more.

Right, but you can't force fun on someone if it's not enjoyable to them.

That's right.

So, I guess my question to you is: why would I,

if I were to rule in your favor, how could I possibly force her to endure this unless you had some

real need?

Do you know what I mean?

And I guess I'd just say when she's not there,

how do you feel?

Abandoned, lonely,

worried?

Well, part of it is also that I would like to get a reaction from her as to how the concert went.

And if I don't see her for a long time,

you know, regardless.

Of course, I appreciate people telling me they liked it, but I also want to hear from her.

Right.

Well, they're all liars.

Yeah, we've met these people.

I mean, we've already established if they don't like it, they probably aren't going to stick around to say so.

That only happens at Judge John Hodgman shows.

Yeah, these people are sitting in the audience whispering to each other.

This is some Mendelssohn lover bologna.

Oh, my God.

I'm going to get in trouble for the mendelines.

You're not going to get the Mendelssohn estate?

Well, you think Mendelssohn listens

from heaven, maybe.

More like from hell where he belongs.

Yeah.

The devil plays the Judge John Hochman podcast for Mendelssohn every day.

Yeah.

It's his

torment.

That's what he deserves.

I think it's a pretty simple,

reasonable ask that she should feel okay if people think her.

And I'll be okay if

she could just hang around somewhere where I could see her.

So if people who know us, I could just...

point them to her direction and they want to talk to her they can you know go find her and if I were to rule in your favor, Doreen,

what would you have me rule?

I am more than happy to be at a meet and greet, but I want to know.

Doesn't sound like it.

Doesn't even sound like you'd be playing happy.

Never mind more, then.

I will turn on the switch.

Yeah, I feel bad.

I want to know what role I'm playing

at the occasion.

And then I then can feel prepared, like to be at the meet and greet okay i think i've heard everything i need to in order to make my decision i'm going to go to my green room for a while and relax finally and then i'm going to drag myself back out here for the second part of this performance i only wish luckily i have my friend jesse thorne to run interference for me i'll be back in a moment with my verdict please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom Sean, how are you feeling about your chances in the case?

I think I feel pretty good.

I think the judge is also a performer and I think he will sympathize with how the meet and greet process is taxing and it's great to have your loved ones in the presence and to support.

I'll tell you what.

I've done meet and greets with the judge.

Lately we've sometimes had VIP tickets that that constrains the meet and greet a little bit, but I have done two and a half hour meet and greets with Judge John Hodge.

Wow.

i've done meet and greets that were longer than the show for sure

that's a different level it turns out he likes interacting with others

that's a rule

doreen how are you feeling about your chances i am not sure

uh i mean it's very endearing lovely to hear why he wants me to be there um and i feel like I need to switch the introvert part to extrovert and be supportive there.

So I'm not feeling great about my case.

Doreen, the librarian listeners of Judge John Hodgman, which is to say 80% of the listeners of Judge John Hodgman, want to know what you're reading while you're hiding from your husband's fans.

Well, it depends on what I'm reading at a time.

Currently, I'm reading on Reasonable Hospitality, and it's being delightful.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we get back in just a moment.

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The Wizards Answer eight by eight.

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and 62 they soon shall be, as one by one the wizards die,

till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the adventure zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Judge John Hodgman, a lot of our listeners are in the Northeast.

That's true.

A lot of our listeners are Wilco fans.

That's true.

That is true.

If only there was some kind of abandoned warehouse full of art installations that they could go to to enjoy the comedy taste of Judge John Hodgman and the music of Wilco.

Well, Jesse, I know you've never heard of a region of the United States called New England, but I'm here to tell you it's real and your dreams have come true.

Mass Mocha is the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art.

It's a wonderful museum out there in the very west of the very east.

And every other year around this time, the incredible band Wilco takes it over and hosts the Solid Sound Festival, a three-day festival of music, arts, and indeed, comedy.

And as you know, or maybe you don't, you're about to find out, I co-host and co-curate the comedy stage at the Solid Sound Festival with our good friend and occasional guest bailiff, Gene Gray.

And this year, we've got an incredible lineup, including Dave Hill, Todd Barry, Brittany Carney, Sydney Washington, and Eugene Merman.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

There might even be some surprise guests.

I can't say, but you want to be there.

Just go to solidsoundfestival.com.

That is solidsoundfestival.com.

It's a really good time, and you'll see me and Monty Belmonte wandering around.

And there's incredible food and drink and surprises around every corner.

And of course, two, not one, but two two huge Wilco concerts on Friday and Saturday night.

And don't you worry, the comedy is all done when the Wilco starts.

So you don't want to miss this because you're not going to miss anything.

SolidSoundFestival.com.

It's coming up at the end of June.

Jesse Thorne, what do you got going on?

I was thinking actually about our meet and greets from our last tour, John.

One of the things that I found the most gratifying, one of the things that, well, look,

something that people often talk to me about is my wife's work.

Yes.

Her work, co-hosting One Bad Mother and her book, It Feels Good to Be Yourself.

That's always very touching to me.

But I would say a close second is I feel like this time out, we heard from a lot of Jordan Jesse Goh fans, folks who had either found Judge John Hodgman through Jordan Jesse Goh or the other way around, found Jordan Jesse Goh through Judge John Hodgman.

So I want to thank all those people.

And I want to say that if you enjoy Judge John Hodgman and you wish that it was more ridiculous, had no premise, and there were a lot of swear words in it,

maybe go check out Jordan Jesse Goh.

It is a blast of good vibes and gleeful profanity and vulgarity.

Yeah, if you don't have Jordan Morris in your life, I feel sorry for you because he's one of the funniest, nicest guys in the world.

And you, you know, obviously a very, very old and dear friend of yours.

And you guys have chemistry like nothing else.

And Jordan Jesse Goh is just a great, fun listen.

So if you're driving around, you don't don't have kids in the car, because there are some adult themes, I would say.

Yeah, distinctly adult themes.

Yeah, take a listen to Jordan Jesse Goh.

It's a lot of fun with some amazing guests too.

Some of the best guests in comedy.

I've been working with Jordan.

I think he's the only person I've been working with longer than I've been working with you, John.

Like we've been working together for something like 15 years now.

And I've been working with Jordan for more than 20.

So sometimes people are like, they have the rapport of old friends.

Yeah, well,

once a week for 20 years.

Since you were children, pretty much.

Since you were children.

20 and 19, I believe we were when we started working together.

20 and 19.

Don't, don't go, do, do go over to maximumfund.org and search up Jordan, Jesse, go.

And I'm just going to put in a plug for your incredible interview program, Bullseye, which week after week, incredibly insightful conversations with the most interesting minds around, including one with Alison Bree recently, which I really enjoyed listening to.

Yeah, I really loved, we just played one with DJ Quick, the rapper and producer that I loved.

If you've ever listened to a DJ Quick produced record and wondered what that thing is that goes boyo-yoing, it's his signature instrument.

DJ Quick has such passionate feelings about the boy-o-yoing stick.

You don't want to listen to that.

All right, I'm going over there right now.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

I will confess that it is true that I've had meet and greets that go on deep into the night.

And Jesse's not wrong.

I do enjoy getting to meet the audience and getting to know them.

And I'll even be honest, I enjoy the praise and the feeling of

being thanked.

And I enjoy it because I did it.

You know, if I were being thanked for something I didn't do, I'm not really sure it would be a lot lot of fun for me.

And I also will say that I really enjoy sitting there with my friend and loved one, Jesse Thorne,

because it would not be the same if I were doing it by myself.

I would not, I would feel

more overwhelmed.

I love hearing people talk to Jesse and thank Jesse for all of he brings to the live shows and the, and these shows and Bullseye and all the stuff he does on his own.

Like, I love sharing that time with everybody.

But the difference there, of course, is that Jesse Thorne gets paid.

And he's there for, he also did it.

You know,

I appreciate that it's hard to be a soloist.

It's partly why I don't really travel and perform solo anymore.

It is a lone, it's a lonely road.

And even something as pleasant, truly pleasant, as being thanked by people who have come to see the show can feel lonely when you are literally alone and you don't know where your spouse is

and they haven't even bothered to come up to you after the show to say, nice job.

I'm going to go read on Unreasonable Hospitality now.

I think you did good or whatever.

It can be lonely.

And I really, I really, look,

the answer is pretty obvious.

You know, you love your wife.

You love your music.

Those are the top two.

You also love your Lego sets and your bottleheads.

And the cookbook collection.

And you love Kenji Lopez-Alt.

That's right.

We do.

Yeah.

And I mean,

here are two possible solutions that leave Doreen in the clear.

One, get a Lego portrait of your wife.

That can be done.

Two, bobblehead of your wife.

Three, get Kenji Lopez-Alt to stand there.

Then I think you would feel a little, I think you'd feel a little shown up, honestly.

I think people would want to talk to him.

No offense, Chunk.

People love to talk talk to Kenji Lopez, me included.

All those things are options for you.

But the fact of the matter is, and what really resonated, aside from Doreen saying that she was an only child and therefore I was going to rule for her from the beginning, obviously, was that she needed to know what the rules were.

And there is ambiguity.

In each of these conditions, there's, it's a little bit of a different game.

When you are

performing for a bunch of strangers in Altoona, or performing for a bunch of old friends and colleagues in New Hampshire, or performing for family in Taiwan or wherever else it might be, or performing for classical music heads slash Mendelssohn haters and other colleagues.

Kind of the rules are a little different in each of those situations.

And Doreen doesn't know what they are.

And

she

has, like a lot of us, gone from a very,

well, I'll speak for me, a very, you know, sort of natural extroversion

into a now

more geriatric Gen X-E introversion.

And it's reasonable.

The hospitality is reasonable in the sense that it really would benefit Doreen to know what the rules are.

And, you know, Doreen, first and foremost, you can make the rules for yourself.

I mean, the rule can be, I'm not doing this anymore, period.

I love you, but it's not fun for me.

And you got to figure out a way to do it on your own.

That's that's a rough one because I think that you feel like you want to be able to help your loved one and offer a certain hospitality that is not unreasonable.

And so I think that you need to establish the rules together.

And I think I'm going to offer a suggestion of the rules, and then you guys can go and talk about it and see if that works for you and your marriage.

I think one of the things that I sensed from Shang is

he doesn't trust his audience.

He believes that their praise is empty.

I'm feeling this very much,

right?

And that he would like to get some feedback from them.

One, the one person he knows to be honest with him, Judge John Hodgman.

But since he can't be there,

Doreen.

And I think, Doreen, it would be good to offer to come backstage right after the show, before the meet and greet, and just say, that was a wonderful job.

I loved it.

I'm not lying.

Here is my clap.

I did another great one.

And then to ask, should I turn on the switch?

Because you talked about turning on the switch.

You are capable of turning on the switch.

And that is to say, to turn on the switch from introvert to modulated extroversion to perform a specific task that Shang needs in that situation.

And that switch has to be sort of...

figured out by you, Shang.

Do I need Doreen here during the meet and greet?

It could be something like, I know that you don't feel like it, but there's some old friends in the audience who are, you know, and they'd love to see you.

Do you mind just talking to them and making sure that they feel seen and happy for being here or whatever it is?

You know, the kind of things that spouses often ask of each other and hopefully equally as things go on.

Or if there's a thing like, this is a really long line and I'm really, I hate to ask this of you because I'm not paying you, but if maybe you could keep it moving a little bit bit or offer to take pictures or whatever it is, you know.

And I would suggest that you ask Doreen to turn on the switch rarely, you know, to really determine whether you absolutely need something other than a moment together right after the show for you both to connect and you, Shang, to feel good about your performance and gain some energy for the meet and greet after.

But if there's something that she can really help you with in terms of moral support or, you know, literal support, not literal support, she's not holding you up, but you know what I I mean?

Practical, practical support, then I think it's reasonable to ask from time to time, do you mind turning on the switch this time?

And I also think, you know, Doreen, that you can make the rules in the sense that if you are asked to be there and it's acceptable to you and you say yes,

when people thank you for his performance, just come up with something to say and just say it over and over and over again.

until you go into a dissociative fugue state,

perhaps.

But, you know, like, I get it.

It's a weird thing, but people just want to express their happiness that this happened, that we are able to be together and music is being played and it sounded good.

And they, you know, when they say thank you for Shang's performance, obviously it makes no sense.

And all you have to say is like, oh, thank you.

He's wonderful, isn't he?

Or something.

Just come up with a line so that you can evade that awkwardness.

Or if people say, what instrument do you play?

Say,

I'm actually a project manager and I'd rather be reading a a book right now or something.

Judge Hodgman, I used to get letters all the time I put this on from people who said, since I've started dressing more nicely, people often compliment me on my clothes and I don't know what to say.

I'm overwhelmed and I hate it.

And the answer for what to say is, thank you.

That's kind of you to say.

Right.

If someone compliments you on what you do, Noreen, or on what Xiang does, say, thank you.

That's kind of you to say.

Make sure to check out my menswear blog at putthison.com.

But my baseline ruling is I'm ruling in Doreen's favor.

The baseline is you don't have to do this.

I think it's just decent to check in with your loved one at the end of each concert

and say, I saw it.

It was great.

I'm here for you if you need me.

I hope you don't.

I am not going to disappear.

I have not gone back to the hotel in disgust at how you performed.

And I'll be ready to go when you are ready to go.

Or I need to go back to the hotel because of X, Y, and Z, and you're just going to have to do it without me.

Like, if you don't know what the rules are, make the rules.

Set the rules together.

And there you go.

And also, I rule that Mendelson sucks.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Sean, how are you feeling about your

judge's decision?

I think it's excellent

advice and

it should solve most of the issues.

And I look forward to implementing them for my next performance.

Doreen, how are you feeling?

I feel great.

There's a role.

Now I can follow.

Xiaom Doreen, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We'll have Swift Justice in just a second.

First, our thanks to Redditor Benceco for naming this week's episode Star Witnesser.

If you want to name a future episode, join us on the Maximum Fun Reddit at maximumfun.reddit.com.

That's where we ask for those submissions.

It's also a great place to chat about each week's show.

Oh, he's got a lot of fun, pleasant people there on the Maximum Fun Reddit.

You know, Reddit sometimes gets a bad reputation.

Maximum Fun Sub is about good vibes.

Love it there.

Love it there.

Yeah.

All of online has a bad reputation.

And just so, I mean, I've earned it pretty much.

But that's fair.

But the maximum fun subreddit is a good vibe and it's a good time.

And I enjoy hanging out over there and seeing all your good vibe comments and your incredibly funny title suggestions.

So thank you for those.

Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account.

That is instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

You can also find them on the open web on the episode page for this week's episode at maximumfun.org.

We're on TikTok and YouTube at JudgeJohn Hodgman pod.

On YouTube, you can watch full episodes of our program, plus live premieres Wednesday morning, 9 a.m.

Pacific, noon Eastern, live premieres of each week's Judge John Hodgman video on the Judge John Hodgman YouTube page.

And a lot of times Jen and John and I are hanging out in the chat when that happens.

But certainly you can chat with other Max MaxFun fans and Judge John Hodgman viewers.

It's a nice time over there in those live premieres.

Follow us, subscribe us there, please.

And thank you, RDVMD, over on Apple Podcast for the recent five-star rating.

Dr.

RDV, I presume, writes, quote, as a 50-something Caucasian woman, I am contractually obligated to love true crime podcasts, and I do.

But it turns out I love petty grievances and being judgy just as much.

The hosts of Judge John Hodgman are funny.

The guests are off beat, except for Doreen, who was exactly on beat, was amazing.

And the complaints are ridiculous in the best way.

And quote, do you hear that, Jesse?

We're as popular as murder podcasts.

Woohoo!

We finally reached crime levels of popularity.

Thank you very much, RDVMD, or shall I say Dr.

RDV?

And thank you to everyone who's been reviewing the podcast all over the place and spreading the word, even if it's just talking about it to a friend.

It really helps people discover the show.

Yeah, pick a favorite episode.

Homework for this week, if I might.

Pick a favorite episode.

Think of someone who might enjoy it and send it to them.

Send it in a text message or an email or at them on social media or post it on their Facebook wall.

MySpace it to them.

Send it to them on Friendster.

Pick your favorite episode and send it to somebody that might enjoy it.

It really,

look, we don't have buying advertisements.

You know what I mean?

We don't have advertisement buying money.

No.

We've only got camera buying money right now.

So send it to a friend.

It really does make a huge difference if you love the show.

Yeah, and share the YouTube video.

Just click the share and

post it to someplace or whatever.

It's fun.

Post it to someplace or whatever.

Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode engineered by Lily Ruxstool and Abigail Clark at Pulp Arts in Gainesville, Florida.

The podcast edited by A.J.

McKeon.

Our video editor is Daniel Speer.

Natty Lopez runs our social media.

And our producer is the ever-capable Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Amy asks, are anklets tacky?

I say no.

I say

no.

What do you say, Jesse?

I mean, yes, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to get in the way of anybody's fun.

You know what I mean?

They're a fun kind of tacky for sure.

I mean, they have a limited to vibe.

Yeah, I suppose that's true.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I feel like

I bet you with the right anklet, no matter what, you can carry it off.

Jennifer Marmor, host of March Maldness

on the Maximum Fun podcast.

If you were going to buy an anklet at the mall, what store would you be hitting up?

A limited to for sure.

Limited to I nailed it.

That's great.

Yeah.

Although I think they're gone now.

So now probably justice.

Okay.

Probably hit up justice, Judge Hodgman.

All right.

That's where I'll go.

And I'm going to put my ankle where my mouth is, which is very uncomfortable.

Hey, we talked a little bit today about what it is to be a solo artist.

I'd love to hear more artist disputes.

Did someone in your ceramic studio always snag the best pottery wheel?

Do you have a friend who always tries to touch the art at the museum?

Did you get splashed by soup while admiring the Mona Lisa in January?

And you want to sue for damages?

Get some of that Louvre money?

Submit your art cases at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

Judge Hodgman, can I tell you something I learned from my colleague

Kevin here at Maximum Fund?

He's the senior producer of Bullseye.

He used to work at the Orange County Art Museum.

The way you can tell a classy museum from a two-bit museum is whether the security guards get chairs.

If there's a chair or a stool there, then it's a classy joint.

If there's no chair or stool there, then it's a two-bit operation.

Two-bit operation.

Yeah,

everyone deserves to take a load off from time to time.

But we don't only want to hear art-related disputes, right, Jesse?

Any subject is welcome at maximumfun.org slash jjho.

That's maximumfund.org slash jjho.

No case is too big or too small.

Our whole show runs on them, so please share them with us.

That form is at maximumfund.org slash jjho.

Very easy to share them.

And we're answering cases in all kinds of forms these days, not just here on the podcast, but also, of course, John answers them in the New York Times magazine.

We've been answering them on social media in video form.

And Judge Hodgman, we've got big plans for a new regular Judge John Hodgman feature for members of Maximum Fund only.

Talking about a members-only mailbag, something like that?

Bingo Bango.

So if you are a member of Maximum Fund, and thank you to everyone who has been a member forever.

Thank you to everyone who joined during the Max Fund drive.

Once a month, we're going to be clearing out the member mailback.

So if you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, submit it at maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

Indicate that you are a member.

And for the time being, we guarantee we will solve any dispute.

All member disputes will be solved.

If you submit it at maximumfund.org slash JJHO and you tell us you're a member in that members only monthly Judge Sean Hodgman members mailbag.

Yeah.

And if you're in the members only mailbag is a great place for you to clear out your other kinds of questions too, questions about etiquette, questions about advice.

If you want to defend Felix Mendelson, the composer,

that's a good place to do it.

This is a big tent.

This is going to be a big tent program.

Yeah, exactly so.

For our local mini following.

Anyway, submit your cases, maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

Become a member at maximumfund slash maximumfund.org slash join

and

keep those cards and letters coming.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows, supported directly by you.