JJHO Office Holiday Party 2023

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne.

It's the end of the year, and it's time for our annual Judge John Hodgman office holiday party.

With me, as always, he's the holiday man, Judge John Hodgman.

It's beginning to smell a lot like mustard

all throughout the house.

No spoilers.

But when you think of holiday smells you think grape jelly and mustard and that's wafting into my nostrils here on the jj ho ho ho office holiday party jesse last time we did this you couldn't join us because you pretended to be sick to get out of eating all this weird food Yeah, I pretended to have a debilitating chronic illness.

Migraine headaches.

A permanent disability.

Let's just say it was convenient.

Look,

a migraine is never convenient for you and anyone who has to struggle with them.

And I apologize for that.

But you got out of eating some weird food the last time we did this.

But this time you're back.

I hope in good fettle and no hope of escape for you.

This is a tradition that started a while ago when we invited people to send in their most treasured or most interesting family recipes for the holidays.

What other euphemisms for for weird and disgusting are there?

We wanted their most treasured family recipes, and what we got instead was tomato soup salad.

And you weren't around when we had the tomato.

This is a cold molded salad made of tomato soup, gelatin, cream cheese, bell pepper, an onion.

And

our listener in New England, Will, passed it on to us like a curse.

after it had been passed on to him by his grandmother in Milo Main.

And he claims that everyone loves this salad and everyone in the family devours it.

And he likes to have it the day after Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever on cold, like a slab of it on between two pieces of white bread.

And we tried it, Jesse.

You weren't here.

It was not to my liking, but Will won't stop sending me pictures of it year after year.

So I just wanted to share with you and our listeners.

2023's tomato soup salad.

Jesse, it's in the document there for for you.

Obviously, listeners can see it.

Maximumfund.org.

JJ Hoe page, as well as our Instagram account at JudgeJohn Hodgman.

What do you think of this year's ring mold?

Wow.

Yeah, I just opened it up.

Really?

Well, I mean, it looks,

to some extent, it just looks like a cream sickle bunt cake.

Like, as you would imagine, if you made jello in a jello mold that was a bunt cake style jello mold, it may even be a bunt pan.

An opaque jell-o.

Like a creamy, pale tomato opaque jell-o.

But then it has these shards of vegetable appearing

as though they're,

it makes it look like an inedible moonrock.

Yeah.

Jennifer Marmer, producer, you're here with us on the line, are you not?

I'm here.

Happy holidays to you.

Happy holidays.

But you and I both had the tomato soup salad, right?

no i didn't you really threw a curveball during that recording i was not planning on prepping that and then you showed up with a container of it you held it upside down over your computer yeah we'll put that dairy queen blizzard style yeah

it was a sight it was a sight so you and joel tried it and the release from the bunt cake pan was not perfect will

this year so as jesse points out there's a craggy bottom to it revealing the strata of bits of bell pepper and onion, which are challenging to people, even when not encased in tomato soup mixed with mayonnaise and cream cheese.

But now that you've seen it, Jesse, you will die in seven days.

Listeners, you can take your own life in your hands because this photo, as well as the recipe, is on the show page at maximumfun.org.

We're not going to taste it again this year because we've got too many good new things to taste.

Before we get to them, though, Jesse, it says here, This is our cocktail hour, by the way, at the holiday party.

Yeah.

It says here in this piece of paper that I'm looking at that you have never tried eggnog with orange soda is that correct this is a judge john hodgman legend beverage one that you and jennifer bring up a lot because iconic yeah you tried it on a past holiday episode and i never have i have to say that i like both eggnog

I'm a big eggnog fan.

I love eggnog.

I know some people, it grosses them out, but I really like it.

Yeah.

And I like orange soda.

I'm an adult orange soda drinker, and I'm not afraid to admit it.

My favorite is a Jaritos mandarina, but

I'll drink any orange soda that comes along.

Sometimes you feel like a soda pop, and I don't drink caffeine ordinarily.

So

orange soda is a nice available one.

It's a little more than a like a 7-up or a sprite is not enough flavor for me.

Don't take a drink now, Jesse, because what I'm going to say is this is two great tastes that go great together.

eggnog and orange soda, Reese's eggnog orange cup.

And

everyone in the world who has tried it likes it.

There can be no skepticism about this, Jesse.

That's a fact.

Okay, I'm deeply skeptical about it.

I want to be clear.

No, no, no.

We have proof.

There's a, I screened some

litigants for a case that we might hear.

And before we hung up, we had like five minutes left on the Zoom call.

And they were like, wait, we have a question for you.

Is eggnog and orange soda actually good?

Yeah, and I love that they were like, We're gonna talk to the producer of Judge John Hodgman.

We gotta know.

We're gonna get to the bottom of this.

There's only one way to find out: ask someone else.

Yep.

Well, Jesse, and those listeners, and everyone else, if you need any proof that eggnog and orange soda should be had as quickly as possible, fear not, here are some unsolicited accolades from some friends of the show.

Hi, I'm guest bailiff Gene Gray, and I enjoy eggnog with orange soda.

Let me taste the

one is making me say this.

Happy holidays!

It's your summertime fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte here, and I enjoy eggnog with orange soda.

I love it so much and that's not a fantasy.

I'm not just eggnogging you on.

It's delicious and no one is making me say this.

Jesse, you should really try this delicious connogshin.

Hi, it's me, Marie Barty Salinas of the Judge John Hodgman social media accounts.

One thing you may not know about me, Jesse, is that I love eggnog mixed with orange soda.

Just like everyone else in the world, you will also like it.

You will also become one of us.

No one is making me say this right now.

Hi, Judge and Jesse.

It's me, Joel, from WERU in Orland, Maine.

Just wanted you to know that I enjoy eggnog with orange soda.

I love it so much.

Yum, yum.

No one is making me say this.

By the way, I got scallops.

It was nice of Joel to record that one on a camcorder microphone.

I have it here.

Are you ready for me to give it a try?

Yeah, because I'm not going to drink it.

I've had it too many times.

I have a big, beautiful glass of it.

It does have a cream-sickly appearance.

It didn't foam as much as I expected.

Taking a sip.

Very nicely keeping it all off Mike for you mesophonics out there.

He's a pro.

He's a pro.

It's a pretty good drink.

Pretty good drink, right?

Pretty good drink.

I'm not going to race to make it more.

It's not like I'm going to constantly be going to the grocery store for more Nog and Orange Soda to make it more.

But it is a pretty nice drink.

I think

citrus goes well with the kind of

spicy seasonings that are in eggnog.

And citrus and something creamy go together well, as in a sherbert or a cream sickle.

Absolutely.

Here's what I'm saying to everyone out there.

Give it a try.

It's a good, frothy, creamy orange Julius-y holiday treat.

Now, this was introduced to us, as you know, by our listener, Pam from Seattle.

And we, Jesse, you and I got to meet Pam

after our Van Freaks Road Show live stream not long ago, which by the way, the live stream is still available only until January 2nd.

You can get it at vanfreaksroadshow.com.

That's vanfreaksroadshow.com.

But we got to meet Pam from Seattle, and it was so cool to meet her virtually

during the virtual meet and greet after.

And during that time, she pitched us a new holiday wassail that we'll enjoy at the end of this program.

But since we're all nicely nogged up, why don't we hear a holiday dispute?

Here's one from Elliot from Evansville, Wisconsin.

My wife's sister just had a baby.

My mom knitted a hat for the baby.

She put it in an iPad box for me to wrap and deliver.

I say it's gauche to give a gift inside the box of a luxury item that you bought for yourself.

My mom says it's a nice box and it would be a shame to throw it out.

Could you please advise on how to handle this?

Knitted baby hat in an iPad box.

John, as you know, I'm the PC to your Mac.

I'm a PC user.

I'm not a huge Apple guy, but I'm ready to stipulate here that Apple products come in nice boxes.

Nice boxes.

They really revolutionized the technology box game.

Just as Gateway 2000 once did by putting cow spots on boxes.

Cow?

Yeah, no, that fancy packaging,

I mean, look,

I know what everyone on the Reddit's, all the the PC heads are going to say on the Reddit.

Those fancy packaging is making up for a product for idiots who don't like to build their own PCs or whatever.

I say they're wrong, but it's absolutely true.

That's all part of the tactile experience.

So, Jennifer Marmor,

you have a couple of human children.

I sure do.

And one of these human children's still pretty much a baby, right?

Yes.

Right.

Still definitely a baby.

So when this baby was born, let's say hypothetically speaking, that you had a sibling and their partner's mother

sent you a present and

you unwrapped the present and

it's an iPad box.

And then you opened it and it was a hand-knitted baby hat.

Walk me through what you would think is going on there.

I would see the iPad box and I would go, whoa,

this feels unnecessary.

It's a a little young for kids to have tablets these days.

And also, it's my

sister's mother-in-law.

It's not even like a direct relation to me.

Right.

I would be very confused.

Why is she sending me such a generous gift?

I mean, it's very kind, but why?

And then I'd open it, see a knitted hat, and I would feel

a wash of relief.

Really?

Thank goodness that it's not an iPad for a baby from somebody that I'm not.

Thank goodness that it's not an iPad.

How dare you?

Look, look,

we use iPads in our home.

Thank you very much.

I and the Apple Corporation thank you very much.

We have multiple, one for my husband's work, one for when we're on the road and my four-year-old needs something to do.

Yeah.

And that's generally the only time or when we're at the doctor, it doesn't matter.

I think that a knitted habit.

My point is this, Jennifer, you're a bad parent.

Clearly.

100%.

We're all thinking it, and I said it.

You're just saying what we're all thinking.

And yeah, no, a knitted hat is a lovely gift and very appropriate for a new baby.

I have to say that this triggers a trauma for me.

Oh, boy.

Not what you said, Jennifer, but this.

question.

And I'll tell you why.

And I think it's a very lovely and thoughtful gift.

It's not that it comes in an iPad box necessarily.

That doesn't bother me that much, though I do have what I think is an elegant solution to that situation.

It is the fact

that she gave it to Elliot to wrap.

Because

all of my children's Christmas gifts just come in one big box from my mom.

Yeah.

Unwrapped and unlabeled.

Oh, no.

And in fact, sometimes my mom will buy something for my children on eBay,

have it sent to our house with no note, no explanation.

Just a box will come addressed to us with something in it that we have no idea what it is or who it's for.

And I have to guess that it came from my mom, call my mom, say, did you send this random thing to my house?

Right.

And she says, yeah, that's for so-and-so.

It's just a total, it's a total baffler.

And on the subject of be mindful of the work you leave for others, it leaves me and my wife to wrap everything, as well as identify for whom each of these gifts is intended.

I don't want to bring the big gavel down on your mom.

I love your mom.

So Jesse's mom?

Yeah.

You got to wrap those presents or at least let Jesse know what they're for.

Send an email after you order the thing letting Jesse know what he's got to expect.

So, Jennifer Marmary, if you got that iPad box, that would make you confused, but not excited.

And you would feel relief when you saw that it was a knitted hat and not disappointment that you didn't get a delightful iPad.

I think so.

I have a little anecdote that I'd like to tell.

Just happened the past couple of days.

Great.

I received, can you believe this?

I received a large box from Apple.

I had not ordered anything.

I opened it up.

There was a tall box inside, a beautiful gift box,

about the size of a bottle of wine.

And then

another box, another beautiful gift box

that was sort of about the size of

a couple of bricks.

I had no idea what this was.

There's a little card inside from Apple Plus Television,

a company I do no business business with,

saying, this is for you.

We're thinking of you these holidays.

Isn't that nice?

Very nice.

Really lovely.

I want to say thank you.

I would love to make a television show with you.

Hint, hint, Apple Plus, your gift worked out.

So I opened the tall thing, this bottle of looks like a bottle of wine.

Guess what it is?

Bottle of wine.

It's nice, nice bottle of wine.

That's all that's needed.

But here's this mystery box.

About the size of, say, a brand new Apple TV.

And I'm thinking to myself, what's what's in this beautiful box?

At that point, John, you only had the Apple TV minus.

I know.

It's not like I wanted any, but it's like,

I do have a distinct hope that what's in this box

is a 10-year contract for making more Apple commercials, please.

That's all I really want.

Oh, Apple Plus TV, I've got a pitch for you.

You know how they just did that play on Broadway where they just had the actors playing Roy Scheider and Richard Dreyfus and Robert Shaw from Jaws talking about Jaws behind the scenes at Jaws?

Me and Justin can do that.

We'll just do it as like behind the scenes at Broadway.

Look, I got ideas.

It's just like behind the scenes.

What happened when the cameras weren't rolling on the Apple?

No, I play me.

All right, I'll play Roy Scheider.

I don't care what it takes.

I'm in wardrobe, as they say.

Justin could be a handsome Richard Dreyfus.

No offense to Richard Dreyfus.

You should see the makeup they had him in for the goosebumps thing that he just made.

But I'm talking about me here for a second.

I open the box and it's it's not a contract for 10 years, a more Apple commercial, sadly.

And I'm a little disappointed.

But you know what it is?

It's a beautiful wine coaster.

A bottle of wine.

It was just a really nice gift.

But there was an element of confusion.

Oh, Henry Twist, my wife who's a whole human being in her own right, looks at that box and goes, I'm going to need that box because I've been looking for a box to put this bunny lamp in to give to my mother.

Wow.

But people out there, you need to be considerate of what your gift is advertising

when you are sending it.

Jesse, you mentioned that you had a solution for this, and I bet it's a good one.

What's your solution for Elliot's problem?

I'm not a crafty person.

Jennifer, you're somewhat more crafty than me, although I wouldn't identify you as...

You're the number one crafty person among the three of us.

I say somewhat is the perfect description there.

You're an enthusiastic baker.

I would say number one of the domestic skills, baking is the one about which I've seen you be most passionate, but I think you're capable of making things in a way that I am not.

I have gone on record as saying that truly my worst nightmare, indeed my like, waking up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night because I didn't prepare for the test is being asked to make a diorama.

Just even the word is upsetting to hear.

But even, even I,

no comedian Sarah Schaefer when it comes

to craft and art.

Extraordinary.

Even I can say that I think I have a craft-based solution to this.

One word,

decoupage.

Oh,

start with the apple box and some white glue and a few cool magazines

or newspapers.

And you've got, you've not only solved the apple box problem, you've also solved the wrapping problem.

Oh.

I love this.

I'm going to big gavel on that.

That's a great solution.

And by the way, Elliot, your mom's wrong.

That's the gift you always wanted for the holidays.

Jesse, cocktail hour is almost over, but there is one more thing that you wanted to try.

You specifically wanted to try, even though

you don't drink alcohol, you wanted to try this cocktail.

That's absolutely right.

We got this in a message from Carly on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram at JudgeJohn Hodgman.

Carly wrote to us at a Thanksgiving gathering last weekend, a friend of a friend iced my mold wine and poured sprite over it.

Wow.

I'll say this.

I'm not a drinker.

Right.

But, you know, I've taken communion at church.

I've had some champagne.

And certainly I've had Sprite before.

Right.

I always think that mold wine smells nice.

It is.

It's got that grapey, mustardy smell of Christmas.

It fills up the whole house.

And I love mold cider.

This is sort of like a red wine spritzer.

Yeah, so, but mullen wine, what you're doing is you simmer red wine, and they recommend a fruity red wine like Zweigelt.

Fruity red wine with a little bit of orange juice and orange peel and some cloves and some cardamom and some cinnamon, and then also some brandy.

Now, look, let's just say anyone who's writing a recipe for mulled wine on the internet, on the, let's say, in the New York Times cooking, don't tell me to put a liter of...

red wine in when red wine only comes in bottles of 750 milliliters.

You're causing me a lot of problem there.

I'm not going to make a three-quarters recipe, but I did have brandy.

I put a little armagnac, which is an apple brandy.

And I also put in

a little dry curacao, which unlike blue curacao is really sweet.

Dry curacao is a more,

it was developed by David Wondrich, the cocktail maven, and a friend of mine in the podcast, to be a drier orangey brandy.

And I think the mulled wine portion of this came out really nicely.

I tried it, and I'm not normally a fan, but I like it.

I'm not normally a fan of wine, but I like this a lot.

So I'm going to go grab my now chilled mulled wine, or what we call chulled wine.

So I'm going to taste this chulled wine first.

I've just poured it a little out of a Yeti thermos, Yeti sponsored Judge John Hodgman.

And because it's supposed to be served warm, I'm going to try it cold, and then I'm going to sprites it up.

You know what?

Tastes great cold.

I may even like this cold better than I like it hot.

Kind of like a wintry sangria.

Yeah, it's great.

Now, on the original holiday office party taste test, we also added sprite to eggnog, and that was no good.

So I'm a little dubious about adding sprite to this, but how much did you add, Jesse?

I see you're ready to go.

Jennifer prepared this for me.

She's something of a mixologist.

Yeah, that's one of my other hobbies.

Not a ton, just enough to make it a Spritz.

Okay.

You know?

So, like, not half and half.

Two-thirds, one-third, maybe?

One-third.

All right.

Yeah.

That's what I'd say.

Cheers.

Let's try it.

Yeah, I don't mind that at all.

For once, Sprite didn't ruin something.

There's an element to it.

That I often share with my wife when I try

her mixed drinks.

It about 65% just tastes like alcohol.

No matter what it is.

Alcohol is very strong.

I know it's supposed to carry flavors and so forth, and it does, but

anything alcoholic tastes like booze to me.

But I have to say, this is pretty, this is a pretty nice drink.

I'm getting some apple cheeks off of this.

I'm getting some, you know, and you can hear the little jingle bells in my, in my cup.

So festive.

I would say that I like this a lot and I'd serve it at a cocktail party.

Oh, John, I just heard the slow cooker alarm.

That means that our first appetizer is ready.

Cocktail hour is over.

We're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, some

truly alarming cocktail weenies.

We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're having our holiday party, and it's now

appetizer time.

Appetizer time.

All right, Jesse.

Do you remember back a little while ago in our condiment crimes episode with Nick Weiger and Amelia from the Doughboys when someone's we learned about someone's grandma who

put grape jelly on her pepperoni pizza?

Yeah,

I do remember that.

Two great tastes that go together.

Yeah, two great tastes that go together.

This is pepperoni grape.

Do you know what also goes great with grape jelly?

Yeah, obviously little hot dogs.

Little hot dogs.

That's right.

Natalie wrote in from Pennsylvania that this quote, this one is a staple at my parents' house for Christmas or New Year's.

Cocktail weenies in jelly slash mustard sauce.

Combine one part mustard to three parts grape jelly and cook the cocktail sausages in the sauce in a slow cooker for two to three hours.

Yeah, that's how long you cook things in slow cookers, John.

Oh, sure, especially things like, you know, cocktail wieners, which are already cooked.

You want to meld the flavors.

Also, I think it thickens it up.

There's something that definitely happened.

Now, I had to simmer mine because I don't have a slow cooker, but I simmered it on slow for about two hours.

First of all, I used Coleman's hot English mustard because I had some left over, which I like.

And I also used, but I used like an organic, like nature's promise, Concord grape spread.

Probably you should be putting in like classic smuckers or Welches

or really purple grape jelly.

Probably that's what is originally called for in Natalie's family.

And also because if it's purple and yellow, maybe it turns to a different color than what I got out of this natural organic jelly garbage.

Because what I got is not, it's, you don't, I have a, there's a photo of it available on the show show page and on Instagram of what I got appropriately plated on a Dixie plate

and it and it is does not look like three cocktail weenies let me put it that way this stuff is brown and it does not look good what what ingredients did you use there over at Max Fun Central we used well we used beef cocktail weenies because I just grabbed them because I was at

the store with a person who does finger painting and he was not happy to be there, so I just grabbed them and then realized later that they were beef.

That's okay, that's nice because that means uh, you don't eat pork, so it's nice that you can partake exactly.

Um, so it was a happy imagine, Jennifer, how disappointed you would have been if you hadn't had the opportunity to taste these cocktail weenies.

I would have been disappointed.

Um,

and we used, let's see, Heinz yellow mustard because that's what I had at my house.

Um, that's good, and good mustard.

I'm gonna say, I'm gonna to say it right now.

And this is going to be very controversial.

And I want to, this is just me talking.

Yeah.

No one should get angry at Jennifer or Jesse on this.

Heinz yellow mustard, better than French's.

Whoa.

Yeah.

I was a little worried that I was going to get a little flack for not having French's because Heinz, I mean, it's better.

It's just a better.

I'm not a huge mustard head, so I'm glad.

Top kitchen.

Top mustard.

Sorry.

Sorry, French's.

I'm on record.

The best mustard is the one that comes in a glass mug that looks like a beer barrel.

That's very good mustard, too.

Jesse is on record.

Listen to Condiment Crimes if you haven't.

It's a great

Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Love those barrel mugs.

That sounds cool.

All right, but I interrupted you, Jennifer.

So Heinz yellow mustard and grape jelly.

Yeah, the grape jelly, I can't remember.

I just grabbed a jar that seems reasonable.

I almost got the smuckers that you can just squeeze out of the thing.

Yeah.

But then I I was like, no, thanks.

So I think it was maybe Vaughn's signature select or whatever.

Oh, that's the best one they have there at Vaughn's.

It's their signature.

Mr.

Vaughn signed that himself.

I select this one.

Don Vaughn's.

So yeah, that's that's what we did.

And I borrowed a slow, or I borrowed an Instant Pot from my neighbor upstairs that has a slow cooker function on it.

Shout out to Sean and Megan.

Good job.

Who I don't know if they even listen to this show, but shout out anyway.

They roll.

And

yeah, I was talking to my husband about it.

He goes, So, what are you making for this year's holiday party?

And I told him, I was like, oh, so these cocktail weenies with a sauce that's made out of grape jelly and mustard?

And he goes, oh, yeah, I know those weenies.

Really?

He knows those weenies?

He knows those weenies.

He goes, Yeah, that's a popular tailgate item.

He's from the Midwest.

I was genuinely wondering whether Natalie was pranking us with this.

Nope.

But it's a real thing.

It's a real thing.

How about that?

Okay.

Yeah.

And how did yours come out?

It is brown.

Yes.

Yeah, about the same.

I think yours looks a little smoother than mine.

Like, I mean, but this is not something you want.

Like, get us.

But I don't think the point of it is to look appealing.

Yeah, this is what it looks.

They look like they're in barbecue sauce.

Yeah.

I think we've, in many ways, created an under-seasoned barbecue sauce here, right?

Maybe it's because we're, maybe it's because we're across the country from each other, but I mean, honestly, come on, you know what this looks like.

Yeah, it looks like cocktail weenies and barbecue sauce, John.

Yeah.

All right, we've danced around this long enough.

Let's give it a try.

We're going to do our best not to eat on microphone, but if you're seriously misophonic, apologies in advance.

I guess I got to get some more sauce on here because what I'm just tasting is little smokies, which are great.

I have no problem with that.

Little cocktail franks.

I don't hate it.

I'm going to say this.

I tasted the spoon as I was warming these up because Jennifer made them in her slow cooker, brought them into the office.

I warmed them up on the stove.

I thought in advance, this is probably just going to be sweet from the grape jelly,

and you won't even notice the grapiness.

And it'll just taste like they're in barbecue sauce or baked bean sauce kind of deal.

And when I tasted that spoon, I thought, uh-oh, this really tastes like grape jelly.

Yeah,

it's giving a lot of grape.

I said to myself, oh, no, I said.

But when I ate these little smokies, you know what I did after I put the first one in my mouth and chewed it up?

What's that?

I put a second in my mouth and chewed it up.

Oh,

I enjoyed this very much.

Let me say, I was expecting to really dislike this.

And sometimes dreams come true.

I think that I overthought it.

I think maybe that Coleman's hot English mustard, which is one of my favorite mustards, maybe that wasn't the right thing.

I feel like I should have just gone with straight up grape jelly.

I shouldn't have tried to ban maman it or anything fancy because something's not working right here.

And honestly, it may simply be the fact that when I was a kid, I went to the dentist, I would get fluoride treatments and it was always grape flavor.

And I hate grape flavor now.

I don't like grape soda and I don't like any of that.

And it is giving a lot of grapes.

So it's not for me.

I have this question.

Are your all beef little smokies,

weenies, whatever you want to call them, are they tender?

Mine are pretty tender.

Pretty tender.

Mine are a little tough.

Tender and mild.

Tender and mild.

Yeah.

All right.

I mean, we've got a lot more to show, but should we just end up?

We're going to need a few kings to come in here and confirm that, Jen.

Yeah.

Wow.

That was the gift of the Magi right there that was my gift making you laugh it's always a joy when that happens for me jennifer i just have to say i'm really impressed that as a jew you were able to come up with that that was good that was really good work i'd expect that from a gentile like just sean hodgman but that was never good i was never going to get there

point is my my weenies are tough My sauce is brown and it's too grapey for me.

I'm not going to eat a third.

Jesse, you should continue to enjoy them.

I'm just glad I didn't make the whole package of cocktail franks so I can save the rest for where they belong in blankets.

Do we have another dispute before we go on to our next thing?

Here's a gift-related dispute from Kim in South Florida.

When the holidays come around, I prefer people to just tell me what they want so I can get it for them.

That way, nobody wastes time or effort blindly guessing the perfect gift.

But my partner wants to be surprised.

He gets downcast anytime I ask him what he wants, even though we've both guessed before before and missed the mark.

Who's right?

Okay, gift giving.

Any time of year, do you ask the person

what they want or do you figure it out and give them something that maybe they didn't even realize they wanted?

Jesse, Jennifer, what do you think?

In my family, The neurodivergence of my children has determined a new course in our gift giving the last few years, which is everyone knows exactly what they're getting.

And the reason for that is simply that we had to lower the stakes on Christmas

because it was leading to two weeks of intense dysregulation that we just couldn't deal with.

Yeah, sure.

Sure.

But

in a broader sense, I don't think there's anything wrong with telling someone

something that you might like or

asking someone what they might like if you don't have a good idea.

I think that's fine.

But my personal feeling about it is that a significant part of gift giving is to give someone something that they would not get for themselves.

And

that element of surprise is central.

I mean, I think there are situations like with children where if there's something that the person wants, they

have different resources than you do and can't get it for themselves.

But if it's something that I could just get for myself, well, then I should just get it for myself.

Why have someone else get it for me?

My kids don't have Lyle Lovett's email address, for example.

Yeah.

It's one of the many resources that I have.

That's why they can't send him the bolo ties that he asked for.

I was just saying, now that I think about it, an email from Lyle Lovett is one of the perfect gifts.

I'm dropping a hint to the world and the universe.

Jennifer, you want to weigh in?

Sure.

Yeah.

I, my mother-in-law is very big on getting a list before the holidays.

What does everybody want?

It was always that way for my husband and his brother growing up.

And

that is not a way that my family functioned.

You know, like I would ask my mom, like, oh, some of my friends do make lists for their parents.

And my mom was like, well, what's the fun in that?

There's no surprise there.

You know?

How did that work out for you?

Were you you getting things from your mom that you liked?

And yes.

Over, you know, we celebrated Hanukkah.

And as a kid, I would roll my eyes at like the night that I would get like socks and pajamas or something like that.

But as I've grown up, like, I've really come to appreciate that.

And it's fun.

And, um,

And then, you know, there were other more fun gifts.

Because in the, in the Hanukkah gift giving tradition, there are some nights that are sock nights and then there are some nights that are sort of more

like, you know, CD player night or whatever.

CD player night is what I was going to say.

And there are some nights that are like Akai CD player nights.

And then there are some nights that are like Sony Sports CD player nights.

Right.

Right.

Right.

What makes this night unlike any other?

It's a Denon CD players this time.

By the way, I know that's not the same holiday.

I'm bringing out the big gavel case by case.

Obviously, there are situations where like as your kids get old older do you know what i mean your

mother-in-law for example is going to really rely on you jennifer

to give her some ideas of what they're into and what's age appropriate or or else you know grandparents are just going to be sending sides of baked salmon or whatever what grandparents like at the same time though you if if you are let's say a grandparent and you don't know what your grandchildren are up to, one approach would be to

get to know your grandchildren and or talk to their parents and say, what are they into?

And then

try to come up with something on your own before you go simply to, just tell me what to buy.

On the other hand, there may only be the answer that you just need to tell the person what they want to buy.

Or if you're in a partnership and there's something you really

want

and you don't want to buy it for yourself for whatever reason, that's when you say to your wife or partner or whatever, all human being your own rights in your life, I really want some of those made-in entree bowls.

If anyone's thinking of something for me for the holidays, let them think of made-in entree bowls and maybe say that, you know, in April and reinforce it month after month.

The rule of thumb is try to get gift giving away, as far away from transaction as you can.

It's an expression of generosity, not just checking off of a list.

If you find yourself just in a checking off of a list mode, take a beat and rethink about how you're doing it.

And Kim, by the way, if you really want to surprise your partner, give him a a wine coaster and an iPad box.

Surprise.

No more weenie talk, no more gift talk.

It's time for five cup salad.

Kenny, our listener Kenny writes, quote: Please eat this.

It was my granny's recipe.

Everyone in my Kentucky hometown loves it so much.

When Granny died, they fought over who got the original recipe card, which, as you will see, is pointless because you will never forget what each of the five cups are.

Jesse, please read out the five cups.

Cup one,

canned pineapple drained.

Cup two, canned oranges drained.

Cup three, sweetened, shredded coconut.

Cup four, mini multicolored marshmallows.

Cup five, sour cream.

Yes, no one saw the sour cream coming.

This is what you do.

You just mix it all up.

Kenny writes, this is a real recipe.

Check the internet.

You'd think it would be cool whip or something.

Yeah, you would think.

I did check the internet

to fact check this because I also was expecting it to be kind of a cool whippy ambrosia salad or whatever.

And the internet told me something that Kenny didn't bother to tell me.

And I'm glad I checked because once you mix all the five cups of ingredients together, you're supposed to refrigerate it five to six hours at a minimum.

And sometimes it's referred to as 24-hour salad.

And mine has been going for 20, mine has been congealing for 24 hours.

I don't know about you too.

How long has your five cup salad been in the fridge, Jennifer Marmor?

Definitely over 12 hours.

That seems like enough hours.

Yeah, I mean, over 12 for sure.

Now, we'll post pictures of this, but Kenny describes it as looking like moon poop.

And I see where he's coming from with this.

Yeah.

It's like a multicolored cloud of unicorn vomit.

And I don't know what it tastes like.

You all don't know what it tastes like.

Kenny has no idea what it tastes like.

He's never had it before.

He says, I want you to tell me what it tastes like.

So

let's try it.

John, were did yours have

you able to track down the mini multicolor marshmallows?

Of course, I was.

Why were you not able to?

No, they didn't have them at the store.

I looked at two stores for Marmor.

You are, you are the one who introduced the term marbits to my

orbit,

marshmallow bits.

And

I mean, at the very least, you could have kindly opened up a box of Lucky Charms and just

picked out the marshmallows with tweezers because I think that's what they're going for here.

But no, I had to go, I had to go online to get them.

I mean,

there are store brands of this, but you have, it's, you know, it's got to have, it's got to be a pretty big box

grocery store with a very extensive baking area.

So you did not get the multicolored marshmallows.

So you do not get the moon poop experience.

So I'm going to reveal to you for the first time what mine looks like.

And here it comes.

Are you ready for this?

It's dazzling.

Oh my God.

Yours looks way cooler than mine.

Way better.

And people will note that I'm serving it on an Amy Sedaris branded I like you plate

that was a tie-in from a promotional item for her book, I like you, because I was thinking, I don't know if Amy Sederis, a treasure to the whole world, by the way.

I don't know if she would like to eat five cup salad, but I think she'd be interested in it.

I think she'd be curious.

Amy Sederis, of course, the star of Dick Town season two, still on Hulu.

Tell Taylor Swift, watch it.

Given that it's the holidays, I would suggest that what it makes me think of

is

something that the claymation Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer left behind.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's possible.

I'm going to try.

Show me yours.

That just looks like a bad potato salad.

I'm not a big marshmallow person,

but for this, I think you absolutely do need to have the multicolored marshmallows.

You're going to get the same taste sensation, but you understand.

You eat first with your eyes.

Of course.

Hello.

This is an edited version of Judge John Hodgman stepping in to cover for the period of time when we were all eating the moon poop so that you don't have to listen to us chewing.

All right.

I believe we're all done.

I will step away, and regular John Hodgman will be back.

Well, well

i've just finished eating the moon poop verdicts i'm not a big coconut head i should say this was the one that i was dreading trying the most that's a deal breaker the texture is particularly coconutty the flavor is only marginally coconutty because of all the other stuff going on but the texture is very coconutty because of the the shreds

yeah Did you use the sweetened shreds or the unsweetened?

Yes, that's what the recipe called for.

I was concerned there might not be enough sweet in here.

Right.

When you have marshmallows,

mandarin orange slices, pineapple chunks,

you need to have the sweetened coconut as well to offset the savory of the sour cream.

I was looking forward to this one.

To me, if you're talking about regional American foodways

that will destroy your body,

Southern food is the way to go.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Every southern food that will destroy your body is absolutely worth it.

Your Midwestern foods that will destroy your body, your cool whip-based casseroles and so forth, those foods are less consistently, those kind of bedded crockery foods, less consistently appealing to me.

However, I will say this.

I looked at this ingredient list and this was sent into us from Kentucky, which is sort of the dividing line between the South and the Midwest.

But I think that this recipe falls squarely into the Cool Whip Casserole Midwestern category.

But I'll say, I looked at this ingredient list and I thought, I like those things.

I'll probably be into that.

Having tasted it,

I wouldn't kick it out of bed, as they say.

But

to me,

it is just a canonical, definitional, not worth it food.

If I'm going to eat a pile of candy and cream, there are so many things I would rather eat.

There was no way

in this multiverse that I was going to like this because everyone knows I don't have a big fondness for sweets.

And this is all sweets, but it reminds me of

an anecdote my old friend Amy Radford told about working in a restaurant in Cape Cod.

What if one of the customers asks us if we use real butter in whatever?

And the head chef said, it's not real butter.

I'm not going to do a Boston accent.

You have to imagine it that way.

It's not real butter.

Tell them we use whirl.

It's a butter substitute and it's goddamn delicious, as is this pudding or whatever it is.

Wow.

This salad.

I love it.

What a twist.

I love it.

I took two bites and I just wanted to keep eating it.

I'm going to have another bite now.

Turn it down.

This is, you know, this is, if you have mesophonia, turn it down.

Because I'm not going to hold back.

Holy mackerel.

Biggest talk of my life.

Last thing I expected.

I am gobsmacked.

I'm not going to say what American election surprised me to this extent.

I am not doing this for drama.

I'm doing this because it's true.

This is the kind of thing that you don't admit to a pollster, but then when you get into that private booth,

Judge John Hodgman punches yes for five-cup salad.

Eat a whole bowl of five-cup salad.

I got here, I got here to my office.

I was, you know, I chilled it overnight.

I came, I brought it over to my office, put it in the fridge, and then I scooped it out onto this Amy Sederis, I like you plate.

A small amount.

There was a lot left over.

And I took the saran wrap off that thing.

And I'm like, oh, I better keep this because

I might recover this and bring it home.

And I was like, no, I'm throwing out the saran wrap because this is going in the garbage.

Now I got to fish that saran wrap out of the garbage and save it.

I want my whole family to eat this.

And I guess the thing is, you got to get the right marshmallows.

That's the key.

It's a feast for the eyes.

There's no question about that.

What I should have realized was with the pineapple and the coconut, I like those things.

And pineapple is one of the only fruits that I like.

So there was going to be

a piña colada element to this.

Right.

And the marshmallows I got, I don't remember the brand, but I got them on a, you know, an online retailer.

It's a pound of them.

And as it happens, they were dehydrated marshmallows.

If you want to have exactly what I had, I'll list all of the detailed brand names on the Instagram and on the show page.

Let's take another break.

When we come back, Bacon enters the chat along with,

and Bacon enters the chat in a way that you will struggle to wrap your mind around.

Plus more mustard, an update on a dollhouse, and Pam from Seattle's new secret beverage.

We'll be right back on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lom.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from our holiday party.

I want to start by reminding everyone in Northern California in the San Francisco Bay Area that we are headed back to SF Sketchfest.

Yeah, that's right.

January 27th, Saturday at 4 p.m.

at the Palace of Fine Arts there by the beautiful lagoon.

We're going to be doling out judgment to you.

And obviously, it's an all-ages show.

So weird dads,

bring your only children and interesting tweens.

Everyone, go to get your tickets at bit.ly slash JJ H O S F 24, or just go sfsketchfest.com, sfsketchfest.com.

We are getting some cases in now, but we will need your cases to hear.

If you want to come to the show and have your case be considered for adjudication live on stage, go to maximumfund.org slash jjho as always.

If you have a problem with my mom, she's going to be there.

That's maximumfund.org slash jjho.

Just let us know that you'll be at the show.

We also have the Van Freaks Road Show

finale stream, right, Jesse?

That's something we're really, really proud of.

It is a film we made of our final show in the Van Freaks Road Show tour in Brooklyn, New York City.

It is

really gorgeous to watch.

Like I really, I watched it when it live streamed.

We hosted a live watch party.

I am really so thrilled at how beautiful it looks and how great it sounds.

And it is a really fun show with some great holiday disputes and two giant Richard Kynes

and our friend Nico Lowry from the Antiques Road Show wearing a classic Nico Lowry outfit.

Some of the grandest windowpane tweed you'll ever see in your life.

Go to vanfreaksroadshow.com and you can get yourself a ticket, watch it with your family

over this special holiday quiet week.

I mean, honestly, terrific last-minute gift ideas for you.

SFSketchfest.com, VanFreaksRoadshow.com.

I'll tell you something, though, about gifts.

I received a couple of gifts this year that are better than anything.

One, of course, is spending so much time with my friend Jesse and Jennifer and all of our Judge John Hodgman friends on the podcast and on the road.

Also, the other day I went to Shopson's and

I was chatting with Zach Shopson and then he went back into the kitchen and Roxy, who

who was my server, came over and said, she said, Zach just told me, never rush Hodgman out of here, even if we're busy, because I just like it when he's around.

Oh, my gosh.

That was such a special gift.

And then I got this letter literally overnight today, like

12.57 a.m.

this morning.

I woke up to this letter and I wanted to share it with you.

It's from a listener named Katie.

I'm sending you this email here at the end of 2023 because the Judge John Hodgman podcast was a key key part of getting me through the year.

And I think whenever people create something that brings you joy, you should say thank you.

It's good, good policy.

Katie goes on, I started listening because the algorithm wouldn't shut up about you.

I kept getting ads for your Portland, Oregon show because I live across the river in Washington state.

And I was on the hunt for new podcasts, so I decided to check it out and I was immediately hooked.

Now then Katie goes on to describe some difficulties and personal losses that I won't get into because they're difficult and personal, et cetera.

And so Katie goes on to write, it may sound silly, but finding the podcast was the balm I needed.

When things are bad, it's really lovely to hear a petty, low-stakes squabble.

I listened to over nine years of JJ Ho in nine months, finally catching up on October 1st and October 2nd.

I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl.

In a way, you, Jesse, Jennifer, Monty, Joel, Gene, Valerie, you are all hanging out with me this year, holding my hand in these months of terror, helping me stay grounded with laughter and reminders that there is still beauty in the little moments and our relationships with others.

So thank you, thank you for the lovely, heartwarming, hilarious, and thoughtful show and the community that you've built around it.

In a world that all too often is bleak and dark, it truly is a bright light.

You are all better than a gallon of scallops, Katie.

And,

you know, that last line really hit me because, you know, there are candles in

most of the celebrations of these year-end holidays, and they're there for a reason, because all of these holidays tend to correspond with the winter solstice, the longest night of the year.

And it's a time at the end of a completely made-up idea of year.

And a year, of course, is a completely made-up idea, but darkness is not.

We experience it.

We're experiencing it now, literal and figurative, and it gets dark at 4.30 in the afternoon, and it is hard to remember when it gets light again.

And that's why these holidays kindle literal lights against the darkness.

And

I was just really touched by that letter.

And I wanted to thank all the listeners.

The end.

Bye.

Sorry.

Didn't mean to get choked up, but I just really wanted to thank you all for keeping us company.

Bye.

Let's get back to the document.

Unless you want to tell them to become a member of Maximum Fund, that would be fine, Jesse.

That'll get me out of this.

Turn it into pure transaction, please.

Become a member of Maximum Fund at maximumfund.org slash

thank God or whatever.

I met a dude named Eric at the flea market with whom I had a very similar interaction.

I was very grateful for it.

So thanks, Eric, and thanks to all of the folks out there who

share these experiences with us and

tell us that our work is meaningful.

It means a lot to us.

Let's get back to goofing around.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

It's our office holiday party.

That's right.

We are trying favorite holiday drinks and appetizers submitted by you, the listeners, and also, let's say, debatable salads.

And we've been having a very good time.

But what else is going on, Jesse?

Well, while we've been having our party, there's been another party going on in parallel at Martha and Doug's house.

Do you remember Martha and Doug, John?

Doug, retired high school teacher who couldn't get over the fact that COVID canceled his swan song high school production of the musical Matilda.

Yes, of course.

He also had a project, right?

Yeah, he had been building a dollhouse for Martha for 30 years, three decades.

30-year dollhouse project.

And my memory serves.

He was building it as a present for Martha.

What was it, Jennifer Marmor?

Was it a

wedding present?

It was a Christmas present.

A Christmas present.

Oh, well, this is very appropriate.

Well, you know what the best present you can give someone is?

a deadline.

That's why I told Doug to get it done by Christmas.

Stop messing around with the dollhouse.

Get it done.

And apparently Doug did it.

And now we have some audio from the dollhouses unveiling at their Christmas party, which just occurred.

Jennifer Marmor, will you play the tape, please?

Doug,

you know, people are here.

They're waiting.

It's been 35 years.

So what would you like to tell us?

I don't think they've been waiting as long as you have.

What would you like to tell us about what what you have here?

What I have here is a dollhouse that, as Martha explained, has been built since the last 35 years.

But I finally finished it and I'm going to unveil the inside.

So here's the inside of the dollhouse.

Holy cow.

Anybody know how to turn off a light switch in that place?

No.

I am very

appreciative of Judge John Hodgman, who is not here today, but I am appreciative of him getting me to do this.

And

I've worked on it for three months plus the 35 years and finally completed it.

So I feel very, very satisfied.

I would like to invite everybody to join me in making a toast to Doug.

The libation that we're toasting with is the traditional Judge John Hodgman holiday libation of choice, eggnog, and orange soda.

Cheers to Doug!

Thank you.

All right.

Congratulations to Doug and Martha.

It's a beautiful dollhouse.

You can see photos of it and video of the unveiling on the Maximum Fund website,

the page for this episode of Judge John Hodgman, and on our Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman.

Jesse, it's time for the entrees, the main course.

But before we start hearing about them, do we have another holiday dispute?

This one comes to us from Tony in Rochester.

I have beef with my brother, Mike.

When we go home for the holidays, it's a full house.

Our parents, our sister, Mike's partner, my own wife, and our toddler.

Mike doesn't want our daughter sleeping upstairs in the room next to his.

Her crying upsets his sleep, but he also doesn't want to sleep downstairs on the air mattress because we get up early, which also upsets his sleep.

I think

Mike should be a grown-up.

I think Mike should be a grown-up and sleep on the air mattress at his parents' house.

Well, obviously, what Tony's saying is Mike should be a grown-up and stop whining and accept there's a little kid in this house, a little

nibbling, as they say.

That's going to be disruptive.

I don't know.

Are either of you going to visit family for the holidays of any kind?

Yes.

We are

going to my in-laws in Tucson over Christmas.

This episode is obviously coming out after Christmas, but we have not hit Christmas yet.

Tucson.

Let's do a show at the Rialto Theater, Jesse, because I want to be able to breathe again.

Best breathing I've ever breathed.

Local promoters, contact CAA.

This asthmatic gives 100 out of five stars to the low-humidity atmosphere of the desert of Tucson.

I loved it.

So does this frizzy-haired person.

Yeah, right?

Much better for my hair looking normal.

And you've got a couple little kids, a baby and not a toddler, per se.

It's like a kid kid now.

And what's the sleeping arrangement going to be?

Do you know?

So they have two guest rooms, which is pretty helpful.

It's a three-bedroom house.

So

presumably the kids would sleep in one room and my husband and I will sleep in another.

What I'm guessing will happen is that I will end up in the room with our four-year-old because he's very attached to me at the moment.

So we'll see how it goes.

You don't have there's not, it's, it's, that's the whole compound is full of just your family and the parental units.

Right.

Um, Shane, my husband's brother, lives in Tucson as well.

So they have their own home that they are in.

Let me give you some more detail so that we can decide where Mike is going to sleep this holiday season.

By now, it may be too late, but this is going to be a binding ruling for all holidays going forward.

So I got the impression because we had to edit this for some length, but

when Tony is saying that Mike doesn't want our daughter sleeping upstairs in the room next to his, that is to say, Mike and his partner are sleeping in what was once Mike's old room.

Also, Mike's partner does not like to sleep on the air mattress because they don't find it comfortable.

So both things are going to cause difficulty for Mike and Mike's partner.

Where should Mike sleep?

There's no solution to this where Mike doesn't have to eat it.

And I think that that is central to this question.

Like what I am hearing here is that

I don't think Mike's issues or concerns are unreasonable ones.

I think those do sound like inconveniences.

I don't want to sleep on an air mattress and I don't want a child to wake me up.

But I don't don't see a solution where both of those issues are solved, even with other people suffering

for Mike's sake.

And I think Mike is just going to have to accept that his choices are eating it or paying for a place to stay.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Or getting some good earplugs.

I sleep with earplugs because my children wake me up and the continuity of my sleep is important to my migraine regulation, and it does help a lot.

There is a solution where Mike doesn't have to eat it, though, which is that Tony and his wife and the toddler all sleep downstairs.

And Mike gets his cozy sanctum of his old room with his old omni, his old Omni magazine poster above his twin racing car bed, or whatever else he's got going on in there.

I appreciate, though, that this is not just Mike crying about the crying, crying.

It's that Tony and his wife have a child, and Mike is feeling edged out of his own home by this child, by this huge life change that Tony and his wife have

are enjoying, I hope, with their new child and have put upon the rest of the family.

Maybe Mike just feels like there's no place for me in this house.

In which case, I absolutely agree with you, Jesse, that if it's within their means

that Mike and his partner should go find and enjoy being child-free and go get a hotel room, go get a room.

And maybe if it's not exactly within their means, that maybe Tony, one nice holiday gift to Mike is,

hey, I know this really bugs you a lot.

Let me get, let me pitch in or give you

a really nice room at a hotel nearby, and then you don't have to worry about it.

And you can have a a spa day or go down to the poster stamp size pool they have next to the courtyard or whatever it is.

Or for that matter, stay with a friend, rent a spare room from someone else on a home sharing website.

Yeah.

But Mike, let me tell you, the solution is not get the child a room at a hotel.

That's not legal.

You can't get a single child a room at a hotel,

no matter what you read in Eloise.

Not allowed.

Okay, Jesse, do you still have your mustard handy?

Yeah, there's mustard here.

All right.

This one comes from Joe in New Berlin, Illinois.

Joe writes, quote, as a kid, my dad would always make us the same holiday breakfast, a bacon, peanut butter, and mustard sandwich.

Wow.

Specifically crunchy peanut butter, which you have to put on the toast when it's still warm so it gets nice and melty, drizzled with yellow mustard.

Joe goes on to say, quote, this sandwich has been questioned many times, but all who have tried it have enjoyed it.

except for Brad.

I don't know who Brad is,

but I guess we're going to find out if we're a Joe or a Brad in this situation.

Did you make this one?

We're about to put it together right now.

Let's zoom through time as we assemble mustard, bacon, and peanut butter sandwich.

As they say in Wayne's World,

the sandwiches have been made.

Nice and toasty, nice and nutty, bacony, et cetera.

John, what are your initial impressions?

I've been, well, my initial impressions are that

my head is exploding from the amount of sugar that I just ate in that five-cup salad.

I really want something that's not sugar.

Shall we all take our munches?

Jennifer, you have one with turkey bacon there.

Yes, I do.

All right, here we go.

Oh, hi, it's me again, ASMR John, covering for Misophonia, John, Jen, and Jesse.

I'm just speaking to the mic softly for you now, so that your ears are not disturbed by the sound of the chewing and the munching of the peanut butter bacon.

I've done my chewing and munching.

And now Jesse has done his chewing and munching.

Jennifer Marmor has also completed her sandwich.

I'll now bring you back to regular Judge John Hodgman.

And we're back.

Whatever.

Tell me what you think.

Jennifer.

The mustard adds a tang

that I don't know that I need,

but I didn't hate in the way that I really thought I was going to.

So, your problem was bacon plus mustard, not bacon plus peanut butter?

Because I love mustard on a BLT.

Whoa, that's the biggest jaw drop since I liked five-cup salad.

Mustard on a BLT?

Jesse Thorne, what an insult to mayonnaise.

I put mayonnaise on there too, don't worry.

I know that people put like bacon on burgers and mustard on burgers.

Like it all makes sense, but I think just.

But they don't put peanut butter on burgers.

No.

But there was something about the peanut butter plus bacon that read to me as like

a sweet and savory, like when people added bacon to everything in the,

let's say, the aughts.

Yeah, the aughts.

The aughts was a very bacon-y decade.

Yeah, it was a very bacon-forward time.

So like I'm used to bacon and things that.

where bacon doesn't belong.

Yeah.

The mustard was the, was the weird one for me.

I'm sensing this is 100% no for you, Jesse.

I too

need food in my stomach to go with the sheer volume of orange soda, eggnog,

and five cup salad that's in there.

Don't give me all the parfait layers of what we put into our bodies today.

And so I may take a few more bites.

I also don't feel like walking over to the taco truck and spending money on lunch today

after what I've eaten.

But yeah, this is a bad sandwich.

Well, people like what they like.

And so no one's ever wrong, except for Jesse in this case, because this is a perfect sandwich.

I've never had this before, and I liked it.

Wow.

I thought it all went pretty good together.

I agree with, I mean, obviously, Jesse, you're not wrong.

It wasn't for you.

That's fine.

And to me, I love peanut butter and I love bacon and I love mustard.

And I was thinking to myself as I was assembling the sandwich: am I wasting this peanut butter and this

bacon?

Like, I could be eating these things separately and really having quite an afternoon for myself.

Am I wasting it by putting it together?

But

I found the combination, the double savory

of those two things, plus the smokiness with the peanut butter, the smokiness of the bacon bacon with the peanut butter

rather worked for me.

I think mustard does not need to be at this party.

I think that mustard

is an uninvited guest who is pretty much inoffensive.

But maybe

if the mustard had more oomph, it would be adding more.

But right now, it's just a little bit of a tang.

There's one thing that's missing from the sandwich.

And I am very confident that a number of Judge John Hodgman listeners right now have been yelling at their smart speakers and their car speakers about this missing ingredient.

To quote Nick Offerman at the end of the music video for the band Tweety, which is Spencer Tweety and Jeff Tweety, their music video for the song Low Key,

Nick Offerman at the end says,

more

banana.

This needs more banana.

Because there is a famous sandwich, which is peanut butter, bacon, and banana.

And that's the Elvis.

That is what Elvis Presley

loved.

And he loved his like griddled like a grilled cheese.

But since I've never had the courage or fortitude to try an Elvis sandwich, peanut butter, bacon, and banana, I decided now's my chance.

So on the other side of the sandwich, I added banana.

I did not add mustard because I wanted the closest to the thing because I'm just trying to think for the first time.

Sure.

This is in deference to the king.

Yeah, exactly.

So I'm going to give this a try and I'm going to tell you how it feels because to me, this feels weird, but I'll tell you in a second.

I'm going to bite right through in the middle.

He really did bite in the middle, like he was in a commercial for sandwiches.

Jennifer, I have to say, the Elvis sandwich,

which I have also never tried, is immensely more appealing to me than this sandwich.

And having eaten eaten this sandwich with the bacon and peanut butter together,

I'm imagining the Elvis sandwich and thinking it sounds perfectly fine.

Yeah.

I've eaten peanut butter and banana sandwiches before.

I've done that too, and that's a great sandwich.

Yeah.

As someone who has never had peanut butter and banana or bacon and banana, all three of them together.

Perfectly fine, perfectly fantastic.

Ooh.

Wow.

That's a good sandwich, too.

too.

Better, better than the other one.

I agree.

Peanut butter and banana is my father-in-law, Steve's favorite sandwich.

Shout out to Steve.

Love that guy.

If you don't like banana, you're not going to like this.

And at first, I was like, this is too, this is too banana for me.

But it is, it is offering what the mustard is not, which is a sweetness to counteract.

the smoky savoriness of the bacon and peanut butter.

Now, you might not need banana if you were using a commercial grocery store, peanut butter that has a lot of sugar in it.

I was using the best, teddy chunky, no sugar.

So, the banana might be overkill in that case.

But I think that this is a really interesting combo.

That said,

I probably would just go bacon and peanut butter any day of the week.

I thought that tasted pretty good too.

I think there's a reason it's a valid holiday morning treat.

I think that in

a family with a mother and a father, if the mother does the heavyweight holiday cooking, which is often the case, I'll be clear, in my family, I'm the one doing the heavyweight cooking, but in a lot of families, it's the mother.

There's something special about the dad doing a little weird something the next morning for the kids.

It's not just peanut butter, mustard, and bacon.

There is also a little smear of weird dad to it.

You're absolutely right.

It's lovely if the dad even is just making waffles.

I think that's a nice thing for the next morning.

Yeah.

But if it's Kenji Lopez alt and he's combining all of the different elements of the Thanksgiving dinner into a waffle maker,

which is

one of his weird recipes.

It is, you might say, a bananas.

Yeah.

Yes.

I think that that

is a lovely way to connect with your children and give your partner a break.

And a classic expression of weird dattery.

Yeah.

Two great tastes that go together, peanut butter sandwich and milk.

What is the perfect pairing, beverage-wise,

for a bacon, peanut butter, and mustard sandwich?

Maybe we have to turn to Pam, Pam's new holiday mixer.

So Pam

came to one of our VIP sessions in the live stream of Judge John Hodgman, which as of the release of this show, you still have a couple of days to purchase and watch.

And I think you should because we're really, really proud of it.

I think it's really a cool thing.

Yeah, definitely go to vanfreaksroadshow.com to watch our stream, our recorded live show.

It's wonderful.

It's also the last place you can ever get a Ragnarok survival kit.

And when they're gone, they're gone.

So Van Freaks Roadshowshowsh.

They're flying.

They're flying.

They're flying off the virtual shelves.

Flying off the virtual shelves.

I'm going back to chewing, talking.

Anyway, go to Van Freak's Roadshow.

It becomes not available forever on what, January 2nd?

Yeah.

So go do that.

Pam met us, or we met Pam in one of the VIP sessions for that show.

We were so excited to meet her and interact directly with the person who introduced us to orange soda and eggnog.

And she said, well, I've got a new drink for you to try.

This is sort of like if Grant Acketts, the molecular gastronomy chef, said to you, I've put a new food in a bubble.

Gotta try it.

Gotta try it.

Gotta give it a try.

Pam is the combining two drinks together master.

All right.

And it has three ingredients, right, Jesse?

That's absolutely correct.

This is a combination of iced coffee,

cherry Coke,

and milk.

All right.

Now, I'm going to make it.

Pam, I don't remember if she gave us proportions.

So I want to drink what you're drinking.

I want what you're having.

What's the proportions that I should make it to?

I think you should go half and half coffee and cherry coke

and milk as you might add it to coffee.

And Pam did say it could be any kind of milk that you like.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

Now, there was a viral thing about adding milk to Coke a year or two ago.

And the problem with adding milk to Coke, which as soon as I heard about it, many people were repulsed.

I thought, yeah, I could see that.

The problem is that it will curdle the milk.

But I think having the coffee in there is enough that the milk will not be curdled by the, I guess, the acidity of the Coke.

On La Vern and Shirley, Shirley Feeney's favorite drink was milk and Pepsi.

And that was something that profoundly grossed me out as a child, just thinking about it.

I've never tried it.

And I'm going to tell you something right now.

Even though I said, you know, Harry met Sally's style, I'll have what she's having

in honor of my repulsion as a child, and also because I didn't want 12 cans of cherry coke hanging around, I did get cherry Pepsi.

So

I'll be right back.

I'm going to make it.

And if I and I promise you, I'm just going to make it real quick.

I'm not just going to go out and eat the rest of the sandwich.

I'll be right back.

Jennifer has been kind enough to provide me with half Coke, half coffee

in a maximum fun tumbler that you would have if you were a member of Maximum Fun.

So be sure to join and get some Maximum Fun classware.

I'm going to add some milk to this.

I'm using regular whole milk.

Jennifer, it looked like you preferred almond milk.

I know.

I've been making a lot of tweaks to these recipes, but I didn't feel bad about the almond milk because Pam said milk of our choice.

She said milk of choice.

And I didn't feel bad about the other tweaks, too.

I use, no, you shouldn't feel bad about the tweaks.

Tweaks are what tweaks are the spice of life.

The spice of life is tweaks.

Are we going to give this a try?

Yeah, here.

Cheers.

Cheers.

And we all lightened it to about the same color of light brown.

And there's no question that you changed our lives forever when you suggested eggnog with orange soda.

And we're so grateful that you're a listener and a member of Maximum Fun,

yet

you're like Icarus flying too close to the sun with this one.

Your wings have melted and you've fallen into the cherry Pepsi ocean that I am currently drowning in.

This isn't for me.

Let me just say it that way.

As I tasted this, I remembered one of the reasons I don't drink coffee.

It takes so much practice to think that it tastes good.

And I do not have that practice.

I immediately was like, oh, right, coffee tastes bad to me.

Maybe if I had used cherry coke instead of cherry Pepsi, this would have come together better.

And maybe if I had used just like regular iced coffee as opposed to cold brew, which tends to be very intense, it would have blended a little bit better.

And maybe if I'd used, you know, dairy milk.

I don't know.

But what I'm getting in here is a big fight between cherry and cold brew.

And I usually don't want to have anything to do with either of them.

So why am I hosting this bar fight in my mouth that's now in my stomach?

When I could just be drinking cherry Coke, one of the best drinks ever.

And I feel this way, but the opposite.

I could just be drinking iced coffee, but it feels like I'm drinking iced coffee through cherry chapstick, and I don't like it.

Three great tastes that should have never gotten together.

I think we can all agree that if you're going to have flavored chapstick, it should be Dr.

Pepper-flavored lip smackers.

100%.

By the way,

we still haven't, and perhaps for next year, we've not, the three of us, hoisted together mugs of hot Dr.

Pepper with lemon, a holiday warmer that we've discussed before.

Right.

So let's put that on the docket for 2024.

And let me say once again, thank you, Pam,

for changing our lives.

and getting this whole thing going because it's so much fun to do this with my two friends, Jennifer Marmor and Jesse Thorne.

I wish you only happiness and peace during this year end season.

And I can't wait to spend all of 2024 with you, just judging it up.

Thanks, John.

I feel the same way about both of you guys.

And of course, thank you to all of our audience.

You're the reason that we're able to do this.

And happy holidays to you and yours.

I also want to thank Marie Barty Salinas, who's been running our social media, and AJ McKeon, who's been editing for us.

Daniel Speer, who also helped us out with some editing and other stuff this year.

And I also wanted to thank Valerie Moffitt, our former editor, and who covered for me while I was on maternity leave, who brought such a funny spirit to the show.

An incredible sense of humor.

Thank you, Valerie.

And Joel Mann.

Joel Mann.

Yeah,

a gem at W-E-R-U-F-M.

Gene Gray, who's filled in for us, who sent us some great tape today.

And Monty Valbonte.

Monty of New England Radio.

Stephen Colony.

Stephen Cologne.

And Laura Valk, who made our whole live tour happen.

I mean, it's just, it's, it's just been a wonderful family to be a part of all these many years and looking forward to spending time with you, our listeners, our family too, in 2024.

So

have some of these foods.

Try them out if you want.

Watch that Van Freaks Road Show live stream.

You've only got a few days left.

And if you get the if you get the Ragnarok survival kit, don't eat the mayonnaise.

It's one of the rare times I'll ever see it, but it will kill you.

And if you're in San Francisco, we'll see you at Sketchfest.

And we'll talk to you next time and next year on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows.

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