The Host with the Most, with Janie Haddad Tompkins

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I am Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week to clear the docket.

And with me is the host with the most,

Judge John Hodgman.

I'm the host with the most coconut water in this room.

When I was feeling poorly over the winter, I thought, I never get things like coconut water.

I'm like, I need to replenish.

And I got some coconut water and I put it in the fridge.

It doesn't go bad for another five months, so don't worry.

When you say replenish, you mean you had lost all your coconuts?

I was the host with the most coconut water of the least coconuts.

So I got this coconut water, and just before we started recording, I'm like, I gotta get a drink of water.

And then I was like, or do I get a drink of coconut water?

And that's what I got.

And it's delicious.

This is not an advertisement, but Vita Coco, get in touch with us because I will vouch for this product.

You have to balance your humors.

That's blood,

phlegm, coconut,

chime, and coconut.

Judge Hodgman, I mentioned that you're the host with the most because when I'm visiting New York City, Brooklyn, New York,

I tend to stay at your office where you are sitting right now as you record.

That's right.

You are my host when we visit.

And that's the subject of this week's Judge Sean Hodgman.

House guests.

Yes, so

we had a great time expanding our brand recently.

Love to expand the brand.

We went on the radio program, All of It, with Allison Stewart on WNYC, and it was a terrific time.

And they suggested, have you ever done anything on house guest disputes?

And we're like, no, what are we thinking?

Let's put out a call for some house guest disputes.

And we got so many of them.

And we only had time on the radio to deal with about three, that we decided we should have a whole show dedicated to house guest disputes.

We got so many that we had to do a whole episode.

And who better to join us than not only you, Jesse, one of my favorite house guests, a perfect house guest, I may say.

Thank you.

But perhaps my very favorite house host,

Ms.

Janie Haddad Tompkins.

Hello.

Janie.

Hello.

Thank you.

Joining us from Unspecified Neighborhood in Los Angeles.

Yes, I am here.

Thank you for having me in your virtual chambers.

And I see you that you're joining us virtually from your guest room.

Yes.

Aka the John Hodgman suite.

AKA,

your bedroom.

But we'll get to that in a moment.

First, people don't know Janie is an actor, writer, comedian, a picketer.

You know what I mean?

I'm in picketing.

Deep into the labor stuff.

A SAG member.

Yes.

Thank you, Screen Actors Guild and American Federation of Television and Radio Artists.

Yes.

Or author.

explain why I'm thanking you.

Oh, that

we are about to renegotiate our

contract terms for fair pay and lots of other things.

And we just, in an overwhelming show of solidarity, had an almost 99%

yes vote to authorize a strike, should it come to that.

I don't know when you're when you're hearing this, but that strike authorization vote just happened yesterday.

Historical.

It's historical, and it's a huge boon to

this fight to

get fair compensation in this industry, which is an important part of the fight to get fair compensation in every industry

that is dominated by a few corporations that are addicted to impossible exponential growth at the expense of

the living wages of their employees.

So

thank you for that.

And beyond that, you are also the co-host of the great Stay F.

Homkins podcast.

Yes.

Which comes out wherever you get your podcast the second Friday of every month.

And it's just an after-dinner podcast with you chatting with your very special friend and roommate, Paul F.

Tompkins.

I dare say your husband and a whole human being in his own right.

Yes, he is a whole human being in his own right.

And the two of you also have a sub stack now, which we'll talk about a little bit later in the program.

Okay.

But to the point at hand, to the matter at hand,

during the middle of the last decade,

from about 2014 to some years after that,

I stayed in your home with you and your lovely friend and partner, Paul.

And roommate, yeah.

And roommate and special buddy.

I would guess probably over the course of four or five years, I probably stayed between eight and 35 times in your house

for varying lengths of stay.

Even possible.

Yes, probably.

I don't know.

Well, I don't want to put you on the spot, but this episode is about house guest dilemmas, conundrums, horror stories, and others to get through here.

So, Jesse Thorne, why don't we get into it?

Here's a case from Kate in South Burlington, Vermont.

My partner, Joel, thinks going to stay with his family is a vacation.

I disagree because it means we are house guests.

Who's right?

So, Kate wrote in, and I know Kate because she's a regular, she she tunes into Get Your Pets,

my afternoon talk show with pets, cats and dogs and other pets from South Burlington.

So thanks, Kate, for watching.

Thanks, Kate, for listening.

Thanks, Kate, for submitting.

This is an interesting one, right?

Because there are three kinds of house visits or home invasions, as I like to call them.

There's the friend house visit, and then there's a family house visit, and then there's...

the romantic house visit.

So, but this is family.

And I understand that family is tricky because family is the most likely to feel entitled to stay in your home, whether you want it or not.

And equally, on the other side, they're most likely to feel hurt if you don't stay in their home, if you come to their town and you get a hotel or whatever.

Plus, the family are most likely to infantilize and alienate your spouse or partner because you're not their child.

What do you think about visiting family members?

Have you ever gone to Philadelphia and visited Paul's family and stayed in their home?

We do not stay in their home.

We stay in a hotel.

And why?

Well, number one, we've never been invited.

Okay.

And

just because we need our own space or whatever.

We have stayed at my brother's in Philadelphia a couple of times, but yeah, it's just better to be in a hotel there.

Jesse, is staying with family a vacation?

Yes or no?

Staying with family in their home, their primary home.

That's right.

Vacation isn't the word I would use.

Vacation isn't the word.

What did you say?

Trip?

Yeah.

Trip.

It's a trip.

Yeah.

Yeah, I asked Kate for some more information, and

she wrote that

his family, her partner's family, live about 90 minutes from them in extreme northern Vermont.

And there's no hotel to go go to, but he wants to visit his family, and she tries to be a good house guest by helping with the dishes and the cooking and the groceries and sending a thank you card.

And she points out, I don't have to do any of that on vacation.

It's true.

Yep.

Yeah.

It's not a vacation.

It's not a vacation.

And, you know, I would say that being a house guest in itself,

you should be wary of the house guest who thinks it's a vacation for them

because they're not going to be helpful around the house.

If your house, like, you know, if you're invited, if your mom and dad, or mom and mom, or dad and dad, or you know, the parental figures in your life invite you to visit their house on, I don't know, let's say Sullivan's Island, South Carolina.

If only.

And they're the kind of parental figures who are just like, I can't, I'm not going to do an accent, Janie.

Just have a good time.

Just relax.

Don't worry.

Howdy, partner.

that's when you visit on the ranch i guess on the ranch come down to south carolina and ride some cows

cows or something cows yeah if you got if you got a couple if you got a couple of uh really really cool you know southern parental units who are just gonna be like just come on in and help yourself to whatever's in the fridge do not clean a thing do not do a thing do not bother us because we're just going to be sipping mint juleps from dawn till dusk on the Lanai.

That could be a vacation.

I could see that as a vacation.

True.

And if you've got kids and those, and those family members are like, we're going to take care of those kids.

Oh, that's a vacation for parents.

That's for sure.

Yeah.

But

I think that, Joel, you need to be respectful.

And, you know, when you're counting up your vacations, as I know you were doing, don't count the time that

Kate drove you to Toronto to visit your father and sister and did all the work of driving and then cooking and cleaning and everything else while you were there.

That wasn't a vacation for Kate.

That might have been fun for you.

Yeah, I feel like maybe

he

defines vacation differently than the way I define vacation.

Right.

Because

vacation, like I want to be somewhere new even.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

And anything could be a vacation if someone else is doing the work for you.

Yes.

But that is not what is happening, particularly in a, you know,

in any house guest situation.

And in a family house guest situation when it's not your family, but you know, your in-laws.

If the family situation is that you're visiting your parents and your partner is there, it's never going to be as comfortable for your partner as it is for you.

But also, you should help your parents, period.

What do you say?

Why do you say wow, Jesse?

Why, why?

I just, I'm thinking back to all the challenges of of my, my family are very hard work, no matter what.

I love them all very much, but there, it's a lot of hard work for everyone involved.

My wife's family might be the easiest human beings to get along with in the history of the world,

but in the days when we

had few enough children that when we went to the Bay Area, we would sometimes stay with my wife's family.

The amount of work it was for me to live in someone else's home life situation.

Right.

And it was the same even on a trip that I would consider a vacation, which is my wife's grandfather and my wife's grandfather's brother co-owned a cabin in a national forest in the northern Sierras, and their family would go there once a year.

And I went a number of times and always had a wonderful time.

But even that was a lot of hard work given that it was not my family.

Yeah, if it's not your family, you're always going to be walking on eggshells a little bit.

So here's the takeaway.

Vacation is when you are not doing the work, when you actually get to relax.

And that should never be the case when you're visiting someone's home.

You got to be conscientious.

They're there to make you comfortable, but you're there to make them comfortable as well.

I think we have another family visit conundrum.

Is that right, Jesse?

This one comes from Redator Taco Salad.

That's taco spelled in the adventure zone manner.

Oh, there might be some crossover listenership there.

My wife and I have six children in our blended family.

Three of them are adults who live out of town.

We have one guest bedroom.

How do we decide who gets to use the guest bedroom when everyone visits for the holidays?

The oldest is 30, married, and a high-income lawyer.

Hang on, I have to get out my scratch paper for this logic problem.

Okay, go ahead.

The second is headed east from Kansas City at 55 miles an hour.

Understand.

Okay.

Got it.

Right.

Okay.

So the oldest is 30 and a high income lawyer.

The next oldest is 25 and low income.

The youngest of the three is 23 and a graduate student.

Boy, taco salad really threw the next oldest under the bus there.

Low income.

There's a nicer way of saying that, I feel like.

Pursuing their passions.

Pursuing their passions.

The youngest gets grad student.

We all know what that means: pursuing their passions.

Probably doesn't have a lot of money either.

Well, okay.

What do you think, Janie?

This is the deal.

There's one room, three adult kids are coming to visit.

Who gets that room?

Well, here's my and what happens to the others.

My solution would be to

100%

the high-income married lawyer

has to stay somewhere else.

I mean, that's just like, that's a given because easy peasy lemon squeeze.

And also, they are probably like, yeah, we want a hotel.

Like, ugh.

And then I'm a married, high-income lawyer.

I love hotels.

Yeah.

Like, I don't need to be with the blended family.

And then the presidential suite, please.

Is the high-income lawyer suite available tonight?

Thank you.

That's an outlook.

My suggestion would be for the younger two siblings that have difficulty would be to

either one solution would be to share the room and put like a like an air mattress on the floor.

And then another solution would be like, okay, one of you guys, one of y'all like decide amongst yourselves, gets the guest room and the other one, we're going to help pay.

to stay like at the, you know, Holiday and Express.

Because I don't think you should burden the family with the, with, with the pay of coming to see you, like if they are having trouble financially.

I would say that, uh,

first of all, the, the siblings should all get together and just have a little meeting and say, does anyone want to say in this guest room?

Like, anyone actually want to do it?

Because if so, you get it.

It's fine.

Good point.

And

I got to give a hat tip to Redditor Greg, who in the comments when this was submitted, I think suggested a very good solution, which is the high-income lawyer should get an Airbnb in town and all the siblings stay over there.

Oh, I like that's good too.

And have a party.

You know what?

Have a party.

That's good.

I think that's the solution there.

But would that hurt taco salad's feelings?

I think taco salad doesn't get a say in their feelings.

Everyone deserves their feelings, even taco salad.

That said, the point of visiting should be to have fun and be comfortable.

But if your child is more comfortable in a hotel than in your own home,

don't be too sensitive about it.

If you're an adult child, I should say.

If your nine-year-old is more comfortable in a hotel than in your home, obviously.

That's a children's book.

A very sad children's book about an abandoned...

an abandoned girl named Eloise.

But it's still, it's not legal.

But if your adult child is more comfortable staying in a hotel than in your guest room, try not to take it personally.

They're just in a different phase of life.

Is this anything?

Here's the story of a Redditor named Taco

who was

bringing up three adults who live out of town.

Plus, three others who were unnamed.

We don't know their income.

Two were passionate.

Then one day, the three adult children said, we're coming to town and one of us must sleep in your guest room.

We will not contribute to solving this problem.

Go and ask a podcast.

Go ask a podcast.

Go ask a podcast.

That's the way that we solved.

Taco Salad's problem, except Greg did it first on Reddit.

Thanks, Greg.

Appreciate it.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week with our friend Janie Haddad Tompkins.

Here's something from Vicki, who posted on our Instagram account.

Is it rude to bring your own towels when you're staying at someone else's home?

I don't want to risk leaving my own, to put it delicately, mess

on my host's linens.

I also have sensitivities to certain laundry products, but some argue this would insult the host's housekeeping habits.

First of all,

I'm just going to put this out there right up top and you two can deal with it, but I have some concerns about what the mess is that is underlined in this question

because it is quite literally underlined

um

go ahead jamie i noticed that you were having a strong reaction

sorry

i feel um

well

i don't think it's rude because if you tend to have like allergic reactions to certain detergents or whatever, then what you're doing is taking care of your own medical needs.

So I don't see something rude there.

So

yeah, I was laughing about the underlying mess, but you know, whatever.

What are they doing with their towels?

I don't, I, that may be a mystery that we never solve.

Maybe they are worried that the host will provide white towels, which can be problematic.

Okay.

Elaborate.

I mean, if you're like, you know, like having bodily functions that could stain white towels,

like every 28 days or something, then you might be like, oh, not into that.

Don't want to explain.

If the person has an issue with...

with towels and their skin responds to like hypoallergenic materials or whatever and detergents, then I don't think it's rude at all.

If that's the case, that's all you need to say, Vicki.

And if that's not the case for any of you listeners, but you prefer your own towels for whatever reasons, you can just, you can, well, your truth should be good enough.

But you can always use the Vicky excuse.

I also feel like it doesn't even have to be discussed unless you're like freaked out of like, oh my God, when I leave, they'll see I never used a towel and think that I never bathed.

But you know that there are listeners who are screaming at their podcastophones or whatever they're listening on right now,

screaming at their earbuds, saying, if I brought towels to my mom's slash dad's slash guardian's house or my aunt Linda's house or whatever to stay over Thanksgiving or whatever, they would be so insulted and they would be so angry.

And do you know what?

You are so right.

There are just people out there

who would be insulted by this and they're wrong i have a fix

i'll let me hear it so take your own towel and do your thing and then take the guest provided towel and wipe the bottom of the bathtub and leave it on the ground

you're talking about pretending yeah pretending that you use you do like a like a fake out like no one needs to know your towel business you know what i mean but if you want to avoid the conversation, just you just do like a little fake out.

No one needs to know your towel business.

No.

It's true.

Where are you keeping your moist towels in this scenario?

Do you put up a towel rack inside your car or something?

No, you like hanging over the chair in your guest room and then you close the damn door because your stuff is in there and they don't need to be going through your stuff.

I can just say this to those people out there who are screaming at their earbuds.

If you got people in your life who would be insulted by this,

that's their problem.

100% their problem.

They have a confusion around what a host's role is.

And a host's role is to make the guest comfortable.

And if there are things that make the guest comfortable within, I mean, within reason, like you can't go to someone's house and go, you know what helps me fall asleep is lighting a bunch of magazines on fire.

Like that's not okay.

But if your guest is open enough to say, to be comfortable, I need my own towels.

I hope you're not insulted.

Your job is to to say, of course, I'm not insulted.

I want you to be comfortable.

And let me say something as well

to these parents out there.

If you want your kids to visit you, make it a vacation.

You know,

like be those imaginary Sullivan's Island parental units.

You know,

be the Sullivan's Island parental units you want to see in the world.

Exactly.

Like,

you know, if you want, if you, if you want family to visit you, make make it fun for them and make them comfortable.

And they'll come.

And they'll come.

If you don't want people to visit you, then assign them a bunch of chores.

Then they'll stop coming.

Oh, one quick thing from Instagram.

Someone wrote in

after we closed the docket, but I think it's important.

It's a bathroom issue.

Where should a plunger be stored in a bathroom that guests use?

This is inky cats of Instagram.

And Janie, you're raising your hand.

You don't have to.

It's not a classroom.

You're here to school us.

I feel very strongly that a plunger should be on the floor next to the toilet, just visible kind of right in the back area.

It should be.

And you know, there are very decorative plungers.

100 plugs out there now.

Oh, I've even bought a plunger as a hostess gift.

Like when I stayed, like a cool looking plunge, like at my friend's house in New York.

I was like, you don't have a plunger in your bathroom.

Like I was like freaking out about it.

And then when I left, I bought, I was like, I ordered you something.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

I like that.

That's an incredibly intense move, Janie.

And I love it.

I love it.

Well, she's my friend from college days.

So it was, there was an intimacy there.

Put a pin in the plunge.

I mean, because I just want to say that, like, I 100% agree with you.

And Inky Cats, in a separate letter to me relayed a longer story that indicated there was a bad backstory to this.

Of course there was because there was not a plunger readily

visible to a guest.

When you need one, you really need one.

You need it quick.

And if you don't know where it is.

And you don't want to have to ask for one.

Why would you ever put your guest in a position where they have to ask where you're, you know, when your guest comes out and they say, where do you keep your plunger, things are not going well.

Plungers are ugly to have in the bathroom, but there are pretty ones out there.

I just did a quick search for a pretty plunger and a lot of options came up.

I would say,

you know, here's what you don't necessarily want to do as a host.

Don't say, and this is the plunger in case you need it.

Right.

You just leave, it's an unspoken, it's like an unit

existing to come.

So you don't want, right?

You don't want to be, you don't want to be acknowledging like, I know you're going to wreck this bathroom.

So here's the plunger.

But on the other hand, you don't want to get a plunger that is so decorative that it's invisible.

They can't find it.

Like, you put some googly eyes on it or something.

Have a sense of humor.

You know, like, you can, there's lots of ways to handle this.

Have a sense of humor, everybody.

Yeah.

This is a big, a big one that came in in a lot of different forms and ways over not only this call for cases, but over the years.

And it's, and it comes from Marie, right, Jesse?

My sister-in-law lives out of state.

When we visit her, she gives us her bedroom to sleep in.

Are we obligated to give her and her husband our bedroom when she comes to visit us?

Neither party has a guest room.

We all set up air mattresses when guests come.

So you know my theory, don't sleep in your host's bed.

It's not a theory, it's an axiom.

But this is not the first time it's come up on the podcast.

When When I first learned that some people were offering their own beds

to their guests, I was aghast.

But then a lot of people say,

that's what I was taught to do by my family.

What do you think about it?

I think that it,

I don't think she's obligated to do that.

I think that if it's better for her to have...

Like, it's the person's home and they have all their stuff in there.

Like, it seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth because you'd be like, oh, I forgot my whatever toothbrush.

And you have to knock on the door and be like, sorry, I just, you know, I need, you know, I don't know.

Like, I, I think, like, maybe it's fine that the one sister does it because maybe for them,

maybe for them, it's like, oh my gosh, we get to sleep on the floor.

It's so fun.

Like, we're camping out and having movie night or something like that.

And like, you really don't know what the true motivation is.

I would say that there are like exceptions.

Like, if it's someone that has had like recent back surgery or like an elderly, you know, you know, like a case-by-case thing.

But in terms of like, because she does this, do we have to do this?

I would say, no, you get to dictate sort of the terms of like, this is what we do.

I, I

trust that the listeners who wrote in in the past about this issue were not lying when they said that they were brought up to offer the best bed in the house

as opposed to couching their guests on a sofa bed or whatever.

To this, I would say, first of all, there are very, very comfortable sofa beds available now.

Janie Haddett is sitting on one of them right now.

I have slept in that sofa bed many a time, from eight to 39 times over a period of five years.

I'd also say that the way you were brought up is wrong.

That's the other thing that I would say.

I'm not saying you don't ever do it, but I am saying that,

you know, here's the thing about etiquette.

We don't, we don't, we try not to just do etiquette stuff, but it comes up.

Because etiquette, the reason we don't do etiquette on the show often is that this is a show about disputes.

And etiquette is designed to eliminate disputes, discomfort, and the conflict.

Etiquette is not about determining what is rude.

How rude of you to bring towels to my home?

You should be messing up my towels.

Etiquette is supposed to give a ground rule for different kinds of behaviors that everyone is kind of agreed on so everyone feels at ease, everyone feels comfortable, everyone feels okay.

There is no more important rule, we discussed it already,

about everyone feeling comfortable than when it comes to being a host or a guest, and specifically where you sleep.

You, when you are a guest or a host, your comfort matters.

You should be

able to speak to what your comfort is and what makes you comfortable.

And you should be able to accept when your host or your guest says, I wouldn't be comfortable sleeping in your room.

Thank you very much.

Because I wouldn't be.

It's the most intimate part of someone's home is where they choose to be unconscious, solo or with their partner.

I would never feel comfortable.

I would insist on sleeping on an air mattress.

But on the other hand, if you have to make someone feel comfortable because they've got a messed up back or whatever, or maybe your grandma or your Grampy grew up with this dumb rule and, you know, they're not around for much longer.

You don't have to reteach them the rule.

If they're going to feel more comfortable following this rule and sleeping in your bed, then you should offer it to them.

Make them feel comfortable.

You know, everyone being comfortable doesn't mean no one makes a sacrifice.

It just means Everyone should be able to speak about what makes them comfortable and everyone should be able to hear what the other person is saying.

Agree or disagree?

Anybody?

I agree.

And I also think there has been a lot of technological advances in air mattress technology.

So

if you feel guilty, put some chocolates on the pillow or something, you know?

Yeah.

People don't understand that like Janie and Paul are such tremendous hosts that not only is this mattress and the sofa bed really, really comfortable, but they don't fill it with water.

They fill it with gin for me.

Your favorite gin.

Yeah, it's a gin bed.

Yeah.

It's a gin bed.

My favorite gin.

It's very kind.

One quick thing from, I just want to speak to the wisdom of Stuff Stalker

on Instagram, who wrote in quickly: if you have two grown adults coming to stay in your home overnight, you better have at least a queen-size bed.

Absolutely true.

Agreed.

In fact, I would dare say, you know, that my policy is if there are two people sleeping together, they should get the largest bed that they can fit in the the room and is within their means.

But generally speaking, I would say double beds, cut them up and throw them on a fire, all of them in the United States and elsewhere.

No one wants them, they don't work.

Too small for two people, too big for one person.

It should be twin, queen, king, California king, and then, of course,

for certain married couples, separate villas in Greece.

You visit the game.

You've often said with a path connecting them and possibly a fountain fountain in the middle.

A reflecting pool between them.

Like in the crown or at the White House or whatever.

In the crown or the White House.

Exactly.

Yeah, that kind of space.

Why not, you know?

Spread out.

Exactly.

Joe and Jill share a double.

I bet they do.

I bet they love to cuddle, right?

They do not.

You think they do?

They share a double on the Amtrak to Delaware.

Amtrak to Delaware, by the way, one of the better hold study albums.

I like that record.

Lyrics are transporting.

Okay, let's take a quick break.

When we come back, we will solve more of your house guest challenges.

Hi, I'm Amber Nash, the voice of Pam Poovy on the groundbreaking FX animated comedy Archer.

Remember Archer?

I sure don't.

That's why I started rephrasing an Archer rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org.

Join me and a bevy of special guests as we discuss every episode of Archer starting from the very beginning.

Archer executive producer Casey Willis and editor Christian Danley will provide insight and fun and help me remember everything I've forgotten about Archer, which is a lot.

So, join me on rephrasing an Archer Rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org because I can't wait to watch Archer again for the very first time.

The Wizards answer eight by eight.

The Cornclave's call to demonstrate their arcane gift, their single spell.

They number 64

until

a conflagration

63

and 62 they soon shall be as one by one the wizards die

till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the adventure zone zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Judge Hodgman, we are taking a quick break to discuss what we have going on.

Of course, first and foremost, we have labor actions going on.

The Writers Guild of America strike.

And we may soon be joined by the Screen Actors Guild slash AFTRA.

That's the American Federation of Television and Radio Actors.

One terrific member.

Look,

all of our siblings in labor over there at SAGAFTRA.

I'm a SAGAFTRA member.

They're all wonderful, but there's one that I really like.

And that's Janie Adad Tompkins.

Hello.

And Janie, I know you're out there on the picket lines, but you've got some other stuff going.

Obviously, we've talked about the Stay F.

Homkins podcast.

Yes, wherever you get your second Friday of every month.

Yes.

That's where you and Paul F.

Tompkins just have a little chit-chat after dinner.

Yes.

There's always a cameo by that cuckoo clock that lives in your living room.

And we have invited our listening community to subscribe to our weekend water sub stock, where we have a lot of conversations about things we talk about and we offer extra content.

And there's a free tier to subscribe, so it costs you nothing.

And if you want more of the bonus content, you can always upgrade your subscription at any time.

That's at the Weekend Water over on Substack.

Look, people, don't listen to the tiers, everybody.

You know what I mean?

Tiers don't matter.

When you were talking about Janie Haddad Tompkins and Paul F.

Tompkins, you're getting top quality, entertaining, charming content at every tier, at every level.

That's true.

So just get over there.

Get over there.

What's the URL again?

It's Weekend Water.

Well, I don't know the URL.

Should I have looked that up first?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

So just get over there.

Navigate your browser to Substack.

Weekend Water is the name of

the sub stack.

It comes to you in your mailbox.

It lives on the web.

It's a delightful thing that you get whenever Paul and Janie want to send something to you.

It's weekendwater.substack.com.

That's weekendwater.substack.com.

And I'm here to tell you, I'm not just a pitch man for this substack.

I'm also a client.

Correct.

I'm a proud and very pleased subscriber.

to get that weekend water email from you and Paul.

I'm a subscriber and I love it and everyone else should do it too.

And also listen to the podcast and then you'll know everything that's happening with Paul and Janie all the time, and that's worth it.

But, Jesse, you also have a radio show.

The NPR show Bullseye,

also available by podcast.

This week, we've got Tony Shaloub and Anna Fabrega, who is the co-creator of my favorite show, Los Espookies.

And next week, we have Dapper Dan, the legendary uptown New York Taylor,

who is totally fascinating, and the great John Ham.

All of those coming up on Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

And guess what?

Tomorrow I'm going to Ann Margaret's house to interview her.

Bye-bye, Birdie.

Get out of town.

Wowie, Zowie.

That's a heck of a lineup on Bullseye.

Check it out.

Let's get back into that docket.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast with special guest this week, Janie Haddad Tompkins from the Stay F Homkins podcast.

Yes.

Did I say every syllable correctly, Janie?

Sounds like you did, yes.

Thank you.

We are solving house guest challenges with my regular host, John Hodgman, and John's regular host, Janie.

Here's a case from Jeff.

I'm tired of people ignoring my explicit instruction not to bring anything.

I understand the social convention, but bringing a big tin of mixed nuts or a tray of peanut butter fudge cookies when I've told you repeatedly that those things will literally kill me in minutes seems rude to me.

Please order them to stop.

There is a jump in this course.

Just a minute.

There is a leap over a chasm.

I feel like I just watched Evil Knievel jump the Grand Canyon.

Tell me, what's the jump, Jesse?

Two issues here.

Yes.

So issue number one

is bringing something.

Issue number two is bringing something your host has repeatedly warned you is

something to which they are deathly allergic.

Okay, yes.

Now,

I have made the error of dedicating too much time to reading Reddit.

So I have learned or have been taught that the world is actually full of monster humans

who don't believe in their family members' allergies.

Oh, wow.

And are constantly trying to prove that the person is not actually allergic.

It's bananas.

And I'm sorry to all of our listeners who are allergic to hearing the word banana.

that I said it.

Yeah.

So I don't know if this is a true thing, but it seems seems to be true in Jeff's life.

And you know that this has got to be family, right?

This kind of steamrolling

over another person's reality happens mostly in families, right?

Yeah.

So obviously, Jeff's family member who's doing this or members don't bring nuts to Jeff.

But what's going on with Jeff here?

What do you mean what's going on?

You're missing.

I'm not going to miss Jeff.

I'm not, I would never question

Jeff's suggestion that he is

allergic to nuts.

Lots of people are deathly allergic to nuts.

Of course, there's no question in my mind.

There's no reason Jeff would say that were he not.

But what is it about Jeff

that is causing this weird disjuncture, Jeff or Jeff's guests,

where

Jeff is saying both

that he is allergic to these nuts.

I'm presuming it's the nuts since it's mixed nuts and peanut butter cookies.

That Jeff is saying he's allergic to these nuts and is thus saying don't bring nuts, but is also saying don't bring anything.

Is Jeff allergic to a bottle of wine?

The normal thing to bring?

I don't even drink.

I know you're supposed to bring a bottle of wine.

I have a controversial stance.

Okay, let's hear it.

I

you know how much I love controversial stances because they help us get the clicks.

Jesse, how are the clicks?

Clicks are doing fair, but could use improvement.

Okay, this is a great time.

It feels like a succession episode.

That's right.

All right.

I'm about to drop a truth bomb on you and everyone listening.

All right.

I'm getting into my truth bomb bunker.

If the host

says,

don't bring anything, I believe

you should show up empty-handed.

Wow.

And I know there is this societal...

Klaxon, Klaxon, Klaxon, Truth Bomb Detected, Klaxon, Truth Bomb Incoming.

There's like some societal

acceptance of being on autopilot of showing up with a thing

when it's like

I feel like it has rendered it somewhat meaningless.

Janie, I think there are two situations here that I would like to tease apart

and get your perspective on.

Okay.

I'm very clear on your position on

don't bring anything.

What if a host says, you needn't bring anything?

I say don't bring anything.

Yeah, I think that you need to take people at their word.

There are some exceptions.

In dialectical behavioral therapy.

Yes.

There is something that has really affected my perception of the world around me in the positive,

which is simple common sense, but

it's easy to forget.

You don't know what people are thinking.

The only way that you can know what people are thinking is for them to say to you what they're thinking.

And everything else that you're, you might be guessing right, but you should act upon what they say and not what you think they are thinking.

Which is hard in the South.

Which is hard in, you know, it's hard in the South.

Because they never say it directly.

It's hard to do it when we're out here

roping dogies.

And you know, yeah, that's definitely, and that's

there are lots of of different cultures where you are expected to read minds.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

And that's, and that's, and that's hard, right?

It is.

And it's not fair.

But I think that, so, you know, that's why

I would always say, if nothing is said, don't show up empty-handed.

If

someone is opening their door to you, they are giving you a great gift.

It is appropriate to acknowledge that gift with some, with a generous gesture.

And there are all ways to go about a gesture like that.

That's right.

You could show up with a bottle of wine.

Sorry, Jeff.

And I think that probably that's the smartest, easiest way to go unless they are sober.

But you can bring them something, flowers, a consumable or a flowers that isn't going to junk up their house forever and also isn't going to kill them in minutes.

Those are two rules of thumb in terms of giving a host slash hostess gift.

A candle, candle, like a nice candle.

That's a nice candle.

A cookbook or something.

Yeah.

Those are all things that won't kill people.

But

if your host says, please don't bring anything or feel no need to bring anything, I think you are obliged to take them at their word at that point.

You can't, because you don't want to reverse gaslight.

Right.

If someone says, don't bring anything,

and then you do, you're like, well, you didn't really mean that.

Here's a toaster.

And you might have have a deeper relationship with your host where if you're bringing, like, oh my gosh, I saw this book.

I thought of you.

That's, to me, is not even a hostess gift.

That's like a friend gift.

Yeah, exactly.

And it doesn't have to be presented in that moment either, but it could be.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that's another issue.

It's like, so there's an arrive.

There's, there are two opportunities, three actually for gifting or a generous gesture.

One is upon arrival.

One is during the stay.

Do you offer to, as Jesse has done, offer to make the most delicious macaroni and cheese I've ever had in my life while wearing the most adorable apron?

I remember it to this day.

Anything you remember fondly is an act of generosity.

The best gift is a nice memory, right?

And then, of course, there's a thank-you gift.

And here's where I'm going to unpin the plunger.

Okay.

Because that is the greatest thank you gift I've ever heard of in my life.

Obviously, you got to, with all these things, you got to know the person and know what's gonna make them happy.

Right.

If you don't know what's gonna make them happy, maybe you shouldn't be visiting their house, right?

You know, maybe you don't have that kind of relationship.

And it's important to be thoughtful when you're there, keep an eye out for stuff that maybe they don't have.

Yeah, or that, you know, like if your host or hostess or whatever says,

Oh, I gotta remember to get olive oil.

We're almost out.

Like, get

nice olive oil.

Or if go get them a nice olive oil.

They might be into really good coffee or something and you know of a

good coffee place and send them a bag of coffee or something.

Yeah, because if you do that, then that's the sort of thing where they'll realize like you're not just giving them something.

You're also saying, hey, I'm thinking about you.

I've seen you.

I see you.

Yeah, I'm thinking about you and I'm constantly surveilling your every word and I'm probably watching you while you sleep.

Thank you.

And I've left cameras behind that you'll never find.

Yeah,

by the way,

I came to this house with a with a bag full of Apple Air tags and I'm leaving without them.

So I'm

have fun trying to find them.

But I think like that that plunge gift is like if your friend has a sense of humor and also,

you know, that's a great gift.

You noticed that they needed it and you gave it to them.

And now they know Janie,

Janie over, she's going to use that plunge.

She needs to have a plunger around at all times.

But when it comes to those gestures, you know, again, you have to take people at their word in this life.

And if they say to you, and I'm sorry if you grow up in a culture where people say, don't bother doing that when they really want you to do it.

You know what I mean?

Right.

That's not, that's not acceptable.

And you, and you don't have to take that from your relationship.

But you can also, like, if you really are wanting to do, bring a thing and you're like,

oh, should we bring anything?

Do you need anything?

And they're like, you needn't bring anything.

Like you said, you can get specific and say,

well,

I, there's this really great dessert place.

Is that covered?

Or do you have enough wine?

I have this really nice red wine here that I'm happy to share.

Like kind of have, you know.

Yeah.

All right.

So you're like, if they say, well, you needn't,

then you can go in for something a little bit more specific.

And if they still say no, then drop it.

You will know if they're, if, if you're bullying them into bringing a gift.

At some point, the gift becomes about your own pleasing tendencies than the host's convenience.

A gesture of generosity should never be about you, and it should never be a burden to the person.

Or kill the host.

Or kill the host.

It should never be

a burden or certain death.

I feel like if to the recipient.

Jeff, if someone shows up with a tray of whatever nuts stuff or whatever, he can say, oh, thank you so much.

Can you leave it on the bottom of the porch stairs?

Because they're deadly to me.

And I'll make sure that I'll get someone to handle those nuts and put them somewhere proper.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, here's the thing, Jeff.

Just get a decorative shovel, something nice, like Google Pretty Shovel.

Have it by the door.

And when they come up in with, try to come into your house with those nuts, just say, oh, that's wonderful.

Here, could you take this decorative shovel and go dig a hole in the woods and bury those god or whatever darn nuts?

You know what my gift to Jeff would be if I stayed at his house?

What?

I would send him a sign for his door that said, You are now entering a nut-free zone.

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

I think we should make that and send it to Jeff.

That's our gift.

Here is a case from Andrew.

A few years ago, a friend let me and my friend Tony stay in their vacation house.

Our host stocked the pantry with some snacks and drinks before Tony and I even arrived.

When we left, Tony said we should take the food with us because it was purchased for us.

I said that would be rude.

Should we have taken the extra cans of soda, half-open box of crackers, and other leftovers?

Hmm.

Before we get into this, I'm just going to, can I drop a truth bomb?

I'm ready.

I'm listening.

Please.

Battening down the truth hatches.

This is in the same vein as Janie's.

It's from the same

stockpile of metaphoric weapons.

If you are staying at someone's house for a night

or two,

then you should bring a gift upon arrival.

If for whatever reason, and it's prearranged, don't, you know, like you have been invited to spend five nights and they're your good friends.

You don't have to arrive with a gift because you have extra time to offer them other, you know,

you want to up your thank you gift maybe or up your generosity during the week.

But if they're like offering you lodging for a week, I'm just trying to excuse the fact that I never brought you guys a bottle of wine or anything.

I feel like

I always gave you a gift on the back end.

I gave you points, participation points.

Yes.

i have a strong stance on this specific

thing

are we getting into a fight well this is about leaving about like leaving

the whether you take the snack spot for you or not oh oh oh you actually want to talk about this case okay yeah let's do that

i'm sorry here's exactly all right first of all i do need to say this first of all i made up the name tony

the andrew didn't name his friend there were two friends the friend who was loaning them the the second home and then the friend that was staying there.

And it was just too complicated.

So

I gave one friend the name Tony to make it clear.

Tony.

Okay.

Tony.

Here's exactly how this entire thing should have gone down, according to my personal etiquette that people can take or leave.

But, you know, I feel strongly about it.

Yeah.

What I think you should have taken everything with you.

I think it would have been rude to leave

the stuff there.

Like even like three unopened Cokes or whatever, just like take it.

Because then like if this is, this is a vacation home, first of all, they don't know if you drank all the Cokes while you were there or not.

But second of all, I think it looks better if you're leaving the space in a neutral state of readiness for the next people.

Now, I'm not saying you should take like, the packets of sugar for the coffee or whatever, you know, whatever, like that can stay because that's like condiments or whatever.

But like whatever they bought for you, which was so nice and thoughtful.

And I wish I had a friend that would loan me their vacation home and stock the fridge or whatever.

Right.

But here's how the gift should have worked on the back end

was when they left, first of all, leave it very neutral and ready for the next.

Leave it like you found it.

Without the snacks.

Just like a campsite and a national park.

Yeah, but taking the snacks with you.

I see.

Yeah, but okay, I see what you mean.

Right.

And then

and then

they should have sent a gift specific to the vacation home.

I've done this before.

You go and you find like soaps or something, and you can have like the address like etched on like very high-end

like powder room soaps that you can etch like the address on the soap.

That's very come in like a box that looked like a box of candies or whatever, but they're like high, and it's sort of like specific to the vacation home or like tea towels with like the house on it or something like that.

That's a very generous gesture.

And I couldn't disagree with you more strongly.

Interesting.

It was a vacation home, though.

Yeah.

You know what?

I don't know if you can see this on the teleconference, but I got a poster on my wall for a weird Turkish science fiction film called Body.

Okay.

B-A-D-I.

Got a weird E.T.

looking guy staring down a USS Enterprise.

I don't know what this thing is.

It's psychedelic.

It's bizarre.

Did I put it up there?

No.

Ken Plume did.

Okay.

You know, because I have this office and I have a fold-out sofa in it.

And it's a wonderful feeling when you can be generous and offer people places to stay.

And Ken, you're welcome to come back.

Just please don't redecorate my personal space with this weird poster that you left.

I mean, I just came in one day and there it was.

And this poster is so outrageous.

And I'll send a pic and we'll put it up on the Instagram and the Judge Sean Hodgman show page

as well.

That I've really come to love it.

I've really come to love this poster.

I haven't taken it down, but I don't think you should, I mean,

I don't think that you should leave a gift unless they have said or intimated, sure do wish I had some new tea towels, then yes.

But I don't think you should be redecorating even someone's second home if they're lucky enough to have one.

I have a third perspective on this.

I love it.

We're all on board for don't leave half a box of crackers.

100%

don't leave half a box of crackers.

Don't leave anything that's open or perishable

in someone's vacation home because you don't know when it will next be used.

Do restock the larder.

Interesting.

Now, it's possible that these things that were left were

specific gifts for Andrew because Andrew specifically wants to drink a particular brand of soda,

or, you know, Andrew loves malbeck, and so there was a bottle of malbeck there.

I think

more likely this is a vacation home that has a certain amount of shelf-stable food that is kept in it,

and that is

restocked by people who leave.

I don't mean that there is a full home completely with eggs in the fridge and uh milk delivery every day or whatever but um

i know like i have a cabin in the mountains and i keep dried pasta there oh can can janie can janie borrow it i know she was looking for one janie you and paul are welcome to use my thank you cabin in the southern sierras i appreciate it um it's a long drive and there's been a lot of catastrophic weather lately i was looking for like a beach situation so i might hold it we have a giant sequoia sequoia the beach of trees

um

and i think i think it is possible technically beach a beach tree is the beach of trees though yeah i think it is possible that the neutral state of this house is an empty larder

uh that is very possible janie and i agree with your principle of returning it to neutral

However, I would suggest that it's very possible, especially in a vacation home, that the neutral state of this house is there's a couple boxes of dried pasta, some

cans of soda and beer,

some liquor in the liquor cabinet.

And, you know, of course, you're, you know, there's a little thing of olive oil and salt and pepper and so on and so forth.

And I think that it's important in those situations

that you are.

Not just leaving it neutral, but I would also suggest think about leaving something completely shelf-stable behind that is nice, like a nice bottle of liquor or a nice bottle of wine.

I would say it's appropriate to leave literally anything that you purchased at the ladies' auxiliary of literally anything.

All right, let me see if I can get to a grand unifying theory that we can all get to unanimity on here with regard to this half a box of crackers.

Here's what you take with you: half a box of crackers, any unfinished package of chips or food or whatever.

You don't want to be leaving that around to attract pests.

Butter and eggs, leave it in the fridge.

You're not going to be bringing, you know, four eggs in a Ziploc baggie for your road trip.

They just stick around.

That's neutral.

Eggs and butter in the fridge is neutral.

Half a box of crackers, non-neutral.

Take with you anything that was left in a gift basket for you.

All that stuff is yours.

I'm taking the chips even if they're unopened because on my drive home.

If they're in that gift basket or in a sort of display, in a welcome display of any kind,

that's your stuff.

But if you hit that pantry, you got to restock the pantry.

No one is leaving a can of

Amy's split pea soup as a welcome gift for you.

That's just something they have in their cupboard.

Return to neutral means replacing that Amy's split pea soup.

And by the way, Amy's, I love your split pea soup.

Sponsor Judge John Hodgman.

Return it to neutral.

And now here's something before we move on to the end of this program.

We have one more case.

This one's from Hannah in Boston.

When I have guests, my cats always sleep with them and not with me.

I request the judge issue an injunction against my cats to prevent them from snuggling with my guests because I miss my cats.

Wow.

Hannah, bring your cats over to the speaker.

Bring your cats over to the speaker.

Put little, put, you know, what would be really cute is to put little AirPods into the cats' ears.

That would be good too, right?

One in each ear.

So cute.

Yeah.

And Valerie, you have your cat with you?

He is currently bouncing off the walls like a god or whatever darn loony tune.

I was looking at your Zoom and I thought I taught a putty tat.

I'm sorry that I'm missing that.

I'm sorry you're missing it, but please relay this message to Big B.

And Hannah, I don't know the names of your cats so janie what's a good what's a good name for one of these cats um

scratchy scratchy and uh jesse what do you got oh gonna go with uh

well it can't be hambone that's a dog name can't be handbone i'm gonna say furball furball scratchy big b listen to me sleep with the ones what feed you

Right?

Exactly.

I know you're not going to listen to me, cats, because you probably don't understand English.

And probably those AirPods fell out of your little ears a long time ago.

But yes, you are right to be insulted by your cats sleeping with your guest, Hannah, and they're probably doing it on purpose.

All right, that's all I got to say about house guesting.

Janie, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you for having me.

I enjoyed it.

Thank you so much.

Our docket is clear.

Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John John Hodgman.

Our producer is Valerie Moffat.

We are on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Follow us there.

And join us on the Maximum Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com.

Judge Hodgman, we got so many incredible house guest disputes.

Folks who went to maximumfund.org slash JJHO, folks who tweeted at us, folks who shared them on Instagram, folks who shared them on Facebook.

We have a new topic.

Yeah.

So one thing that's happening very swiftly is our docket involving card game disputes is filling up very quickly.

Seats at the poker table are filling up very quickly.

So if you've got a dispute about

spit, hearts, poker, whist, I know there are some bridge disputes out there.

Magic the gathering is especially encouraged.

And the more complicated and granular your dispute is, the better.

Send that in to maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

And also, what about weddings?

There got to be a lot of disputes surrounding weddings and wedding etiquette.

And people, if there's one thing I've learned while reading Reddit, it's that stuff is popping off all the time at weddings.

People are always doing the wrong thing at weddings and getting mad.

Action-packed weddings.

Action-packed weddings.

Pack them all in to maximumfund.org/slash JJHO.

And of course, no matter what the subject of your dispute, please send it in to us, maximumfund.org slash JJ H O.

This is serious business, John.

This show lives and dies by your disputes.

So if you're out there in the audience listening to this, I think you probably have a dispute with somebody that you could submit at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

If you're worried it's not big enough or it's not right, don't worry.

We'll worry about that.

Just send it to us at maximumfund.org slash JJ H.O.

We'll make it work so you don't have to.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFund.org.

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