Homer Confinement

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Homer Confinement.

Tamar brings the case against her husband, Aslan.

Aslan reads Homer's The Odyssey to their three-year-old child at bedtime.

Tamar says, this bedtime routine is contributing to their son's nightmares.

Aslan says, the son requests it.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

What'd the devil give you for your soul, Johnny?

Well, he taught me to make this here podcast real good.

Oh, son, for that, you traded your everlasting soul?

Well, I wasn't using it.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Tamar and Aslan, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I swear.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that

he just busted the bonds on the mast and just went with the harpies, and that was the end of that?

Yes.

Yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Busted the bonds on the mast and just went with the harpies and all that.

No, that was the end of that.

Yeah, that was it.

Yeah, that was a reference to me.

And never made it back home.

Homer's the Odyssey.

Yeah.

Which is a point of discussion today.

Tamara and Oslo, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I reference as I entered this courtroom?

It was not just me either.

It was a dialogue.

It was a little bit of a scene between me and our bailiff, Jesse Thorne.

Tamara, why don't you guess first?

I'm just going to guess the Odyssey because I have no idea.

No, that's a good guess because that's what the case is about.

Yes.

The Odyssey.

Homer's the Odyssey.

I'm writing that down.

Homer's the Odyssey.

What about you, Eslan?

My guess is,

oh, brother, were thou the Cone Brothers movie?

Which I'm pretty sure is not it.

And why would you guess that?

There is...

something about selling souls to the

devil there, I guess.

And it's also kind of a version of the Odyssey in some form.

So, oh, right, yeah, yeah.

I was just going to say, you wouldn't guess it because a Brother Weird, that was kind of a pastiche of the Odyssey.

Right.

Because the George Clooney character is trying to get back home and is

menaced variously by sirens and a Cyclops in the person of John Goodman.

But you did say that.

Because if you had not said that, I would have said you were wrong.

I did say that, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As an afterthought.

Yeah.

I wish you hadn't had that afterthought because I got to make you wrong somehow when you're right.

Wow.

I cannot believe it.

Wow.

Who is the dialogue between?

The fact that you made that connection off of

selling of souls rather than the Odyssey part.

It's an advanced mind.

I will tell you what that brought to mind.

There's that.

Yeah, please do.

I'd like to know how this brain works.

Yeah, let's who wants to be a millionaire this thing.

Damar says, I don't think so you don't want to know so I was thinking of the scene where there's this musician on the side of the road and that's supposed to be sort of a throwback to these

to this musician who's a

sort of a legendary musician.

I can't remember his name.

A legendary name.

Wow.

Can't remember his name, huh?

Can't remember Robert Johnson.

It sounds like you're wrong.

Robert Johnson, exactly.

No, it's too late.

You were already wrong.

Actually, do you know what, Jesse?

Sorry about this.

Aslan, you're also wrong.

It's not Robert Johnson.

It's Tommy Johnson.

Robert Johnson is most famously associated with the myth that

he sold his soul to the devil to play guitar crossroads, to play guitar, to play the blues.

But the character in the movie...

It was played by actual blues musician Chris Thomas King,

is based on Tommy Johnson, who was also an originator of blues music in the early 20th century, and also is reputed to have sold his soul to the devil.

And indeed, some musical folklorists suggest that the Robert Johnson fable, which came up kind of after Robert Johnson's death about 20 years when he was being rediscovered, was a misappropriation of the Tommy Johnson legend and putting that on Robert Johnson.

In many ways, you're absolutely right.

It is from O Brother, Where Art Thou?

It is because O Brother, Where Art Thou is based in some ways on the Odyssey and has a lot of echoes of that story of Ulysses trying to make his way home.

And indeed, George Clooney's character is named Ulysses Everett McGill.

But also, you are right that the bargain for the soul story is associated with Robert Johnson, but you're wrong, Aslan.

You're wrong about the original blues man who sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads.

That was Tommy Johnson.

I appreciate the elucidation.

That was unbelievable.

It was Bart Simpson.

He sold it for $5 to Mill House.

I gotta say, it's a terrific movie, and Chris Thomas King is a terrific musician.

You should check out his music.

As well as the historic music of Robert Johnson and Tommy Johnson, oft overlooked by Aslan in this case.

I gotta say, you got it.

You basically got it right.

You win this one pretty much.

And

I really had a worry that someone was going to get this one.

And when Tamar said the Odyssey, I'm like,

I'm home free now.

I know that's 50% wrong.

Never get your cultural references.

So, and today, of all days, that you would get it.

Great.

I'm going to hear this case anyway because there's that real, real teeny tiny loophole that I found.

But you deserve congratulations.

Thank you.

So, which of you comes to seek justice in this court?

I do.

And Tamar, what is the justice that you seek?

So I believe that Aslan needs to be a little bit more careful in what he reads to Isak,

who is our three-year-old son.

I know that Isak really enjoys gory things and creepy stuff,

but I think that we should be careful on what we're reading to him and also what we're showing to him, because this

This Odyssey book is a graphic novel and it is quite graphic.

So Aslan is reading a graphic novel version of the Odyssey to your son Isak, correct?

Correct.

Yes.

And

what problems, what damage is this causing to your son?

He has been having nightmares.

So he wakes up in the middle of the night having nightmares, very graphic ones, also,

about

Polyphemus

and the stabbing of his eye or being drowned

in this where what what's it called uh

the the whirlpool the whirlpool called uh chariblis in the odyssey yeah it's a whirlpool yeah he's been also talking a lot about death and uh about the day that he's gonna die or if we're all gonna be in the underworld and things like that so

um

you're saying it's it's it's gotten him creeped out a little yeah i mean he's enjoying it and he's really into it.

He doesn't seem too scared by it, but I think it might be a good thing.

But you're saying he's waking up in the middle of the night saying,

I'm dreaming of a cyclops.

Does he believe that he's a cyclops who's being stabbed in the eye or he's got a like or is it just the image itself?

It's a it's a horrifying image.

Yeah, so he, I think he's being creative in his dreams as well.

The other night he woke up and he was aware of that.

It's possible children are never creative,

even when they're awake, never mind in their dream life

i'm afraid i have to question your veracity ma'am

no so what's what are his dreams like as he describes them um so he was dreaming that uh

we were the three of us were together um and isaak cut off aslan's leg he put apples on it and ate it

and then i just put up put another leg on aslan let me ask you this how do you know that that was inspired by the odyssey and not that one episode of Daniel Tiger?

Well, if you see some of the images here, you're going to see

some legs, some blood,

the Cyclops eating some of the sailors.

So I could say that it was related.

But there are other dreams that are more related and maybe less creative.

Aslan, you don't dispute that this graphic novel is causing some pretty graphic nightmares, it would seem to me.

Yes, I do not dispute that.

In fact, I am very,

I will not say that I'm happy that my son is.

Shaq accomplished.

That's exactly what you wanted.

I got you.

Sha-jin!

But there was that one night when like I was somehow the Odyssey had gotten into my dreams and he woke up and he came to my bed and like I was like I was dreaming that I'm I'm writing a dissertation, right?

And I had this dream and like with my therapist i talked about my dissertation and like how it feels like the ocean and so i was like odysseus in this dream and i was like swimming through the waves and like suddenly i sort of got a handle of the waves and i was like you know surfing the waves even though it was like it seemed impossible to master and i was like this was such a revealing dream for me whatever and then suddenly sack shows up in the in the room and he says

you know i've been having this nightmare about haribid haribes which is is this

whirlwind, whirlworld, sorry, that

is about to

swallow Odysseus in at some point.

And so I sort of felt an extraordinary father-to-song connection at that moment.

And so,

yeah, I think, you know, whereas I am sort of presenting this,

you know, I'm sort of celebrating that he's having nightmares in a fun way,

but I really believe that it is sort of it enhances my connection with him

in very substantial ways.

And I don't know, that moment was very, was very meaningful for that reason,

even though it's kind of selfish.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, reading with your child is a, is a very bonding experience, but you're saying it's going even further because you're sharing, you're sharing a dream life together.

Right.

You're both terrified in the middle of the night of drowning in a whirlpool together.

Right.

That is a bonding experience, I suppose.

Let's take a look at some of the pages.

You sent in some evidence tomorrow, correct?

Yes, we both.

And these images are probably copyrighted, so I don't think we're going to put them up on our Instagram page.

What is the name of the book, though?

We might as well plug it because there might be other parents out there who want to give their kids nightmares.

So it is The Odyssey at Graphic Novel Adaptations by Gareth Hines.

Hines.

How do you spell it?

H-I-N-D-S.

Oh, okay.

The Odyssey, a graphic novel.

Okay.

By Gareth Heinz.

All right.

Yes.

Maybe, Tamar, you can describe the images that you submitted.

The first seems to be, well, I'll let you say it in your own words.

So the first, there's a couple of images there, but one is

many of the sailors are grabbing this very large

stick and sticking it into Polyphemus Eye.

Polyphemus is the name of the Cyclops in the story.

Correct.

Yeah.

He seems to be in a lot of pain.

Polyphemus means literally many storied or many songed, many legends told about him.

It means many storied, but only one eye, only one eye.

Because he's only got one.

He's a Cyclops.

Correct.

And the sound effect,

how would you describe the sound effect?

I mean, make the sound effect as they stick this burning piece of wood into

Polyphemus' single eye.

You do it.

Go ahead.

Whoa, you're telling me?

All right, I'll do it.

That's fine.

I'll look.

I've always lived to be a Foley artist.

Here we go.

Like a burning, hissing.

Yes.

Was that appropriately gory, Tamar?

Or would you want me to take it up a notch?

I'm happy to do multiple takes.

John,

I have a contribution.

Would you mind doing the stick in the eye sound?

Sure.

Oh, that's my friend the Cyclops that I just stabbed in the eye with a burning stick.

Yeah.

That's gory enough for me.

Is that that's gory enough?

Or do you think that it's when you imagine it or when Isak imagines it, it's more gory?

Because

we can go harder into it.

You heard how Jesse and I recited that scene earlier.

We're really good actors.

I was on Archer.

Just give me one more for me, okay?

Jesse, are you cool with that?

As my scene partner?

All right.

Yeah, that's great.

I, Odysseus, will now stab the Cyclops with my burning stick.

Oh, no.

Oh,

that horrible smell.

The eye goop rolling down his sad cheek amidst his tears.

Perhaps I have done the wrong thing.

They said, they told me that Cyclops didn't cry, but I guess I had it wrong.

Maybe I shouldn't have judged this graphic novel by its cover, so to speak.

I am no man.

That's what he says to the Cyclops.

I had one eye, now I have no eye.

I am no man, and you are no I.

Well, if you go further down in the evidence, this one I submit it, you will see afterwards at the end of the episode, he is crying out to Poseidon,

the Cyclops, that is, he's crying out to his father, Poseidon.

He's going to say his name, will you please?

He's not just the Cyclops, he's got a name.

Right.

Polyphemus is crying out to

his father, Poseidon,

for vengeance.

And he has like this bloody,

so he's this angry face, and blood is coming out still.

Yeah, pouring the blood out of his eye.

Are you trying to help your case or sink it?

This is a grim image.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And here is his, here's his monologue, if, if, if, if I may.

I'll say the monologue of Polyphemus.

Today I will be auditioning for the role of Polyphemus, the blinded Cyclops.

I've already been replaced.

Poseidon.

You know what, Jesse?

You're right.

I really wanted to do this one, actually.

You want to do it?

No, I'll allow it.

I'll allow it.

That's right.

That's great.

So

you can see how it sounds like when we're in bed, right?

But I am Poseidon's son.

Hang on.

Before you start again, just take take a moment.

Center yourself, okay?

Just take a second.

We're here to support you.

We want you to do a great job.

Yeah, that's right.

We just want, you know, and you know, center yourself, breathe from your diaphragm.

Go ahead.

Now you're ready to perform.

I am ready.

Whenever you're ready, we're all watching.

But I am

Poseidon's son.

You want to take that again?

You want to just

take it again.

Just take it again.

Just go from the top.

But I am Poseidon's son, and he will hear my prayer.

Poseidon, Earth Shaker, God of the Sable Locks, if I am indeed your son, grant me revenge on Odysseus of Ithaca.

Let him never reach his home, or if the other gods declare that he must, let him come late, after long suffering, with all of his comrades dead, and let him find trouble waiting for him at home.

Very nice.

I can't I can't wait to show it to the director.

That's terrific.

How did you feel about it?

Great.

Honestly,

we are

in this studio recording, and I've never heard like my voice

sounds honestly so sexy in this headphones.

You know what?

I absolutely agree with you.

Thank you.

Thanks, Tightrope Studio in Chicago, for making Aslan's voice really boom.

in the part of Polyphemus the Cyclops there.

And, I mean, look, I got to say, Polyphemus really tried to have his cake and eat it too here with

his wish.

He's like, make sure that Odysseus never gets home.

Or if he does, make sure he has a hard time.

That's part of what I want out of this case.

What is it that you want out of the case?

Well, either that as Lance starts editing some of these stories or choosing more age-appropriate

versions of the Odyssey or any books, or that

if he continues,

I see.

Okay.

Before we get into the division of labor aspect, which I would like to, I will note that not only did you submit this piece of evidence of Polyphemus's sort of wishy-washy prayer, which of course came true in one sense, because Odysseus did have a lot of trouble getting home.

And

there was trouble waiting for him at home.

There were a bunch of suitors trying to

get with his wife.

Penelope?

Is that right?

Penelope, yeah.

Penelope.

and she's like i'm not going to marry any of you till i've finished knitting this scarf or whatever

and

and uh that was the that was the first time in recorded literary history of a woman knitting to not talk to a man it was very important

scarf has never been finished in my house anyway john and his wife love each other a lot i see them together

yeah no and she's a whole human being in her own right who deserves to knit whatever she wants wants.

Now, when you're talking about knitting, you got to talk about my mother-in-law.

Oh, boy, here we go.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org/slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Jesse, the reviews are in.

My new super soft hoodie from Quince that I got at the beginning of the summer is indeed super soft.

People cannot stop touching me and going, that is a soft sweatshirt.

And I agree with them.

And it goes so well with my Quince overshirts that I'm wearing right now, my beautiful cotton Piquet overshirts and all the other stuff that I've gotten from Quince.

Why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to?

Quince has the good stuff.

High quality fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for warm weather.

and increasingly chilling leather, all at prices that make sense.

Everything I've ordered from Quince has been nothing but solid, and I will go back there again and buy that stuff with my own money.

John, you know what I got from Quince?

I got this beautiful linen double flap pocket shirt that's sort of like an adventure shirt.

And I also got a merino wool polo shirt.

Oh, it's like a

mid-gray, looks good underneath anything, perfect for traveling.

Merino wool, it like, it basically rejects your stink.

You know what I mean?

It's a stink-rejecting technology, John.

It says, get thee behind me, stink.

Yeah, exactly.

And, you know, honestly, even if I do need to wash it, I can just wear it in the shower when I'm traveling and then

roll it in a towel and it's pretty much ready to go.

Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

Quince has wonderful clothes for women, men, kids, babies.

They have travel stuff.

They have gifts.

They have quilts and bedspreads.

They've got everything.

Go over there and find out for yourself.

Keep it classic and cool with long-lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com slash JJ Ho for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

That's q-u-i-n-ce-e dot com slash jjho to get free shipping and 365-day returns.

Quince.com slash jjo.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The brace short ribs, made in, made in.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But Made In isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet.

that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's

griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware.

I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved Made-In Entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made-in,

made-in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Aslan, you also submitted other evidence, including the very same picture of Polyphemus getting stabbed in the eye with a burning brand that Tamar submitted.

Why did you submit the same image?

And what does it mean to you?

And what does the Odyssey mean to you that you want to share it with your son?

So I think this image actually speaks to

what I think is a lot of the value here, which, you know, you pointed out that at the end of that episode, when Odysseus and his sailors finally escape, they do so by duping Polyphemus and Odysseus says that his name is No One, right?

And through that through that ploy,

he successfully gets out of there.

So, you know,

on the one hand, it's like great plot.

Like, it's just like very, it's, it's just very finely crafted plots.

And then, but here, like in the case of polyphemus, like my son, like Isaac asks me when we started reading this episode, he's, you know, as kids often do,

well,

you know, is he the bad guy?

And why is he bad?

This is a recurrent question of him, of his, why is he bad?

And I feel like often in stuff that we see, especially in television, it's like, well, you know, he's the bad guy just because he's the bad guy, right?

But here, like, you really have a kind of

double side, two sides to the story, right?

And you can see here, like, he's, he's in this position of a son himself who's been injured and who's, you know, even

though you have the sort of you side with the hero, right, of the story and you want him to get home, at the same time, you get to understand, and I get to

communicate to Isak that this is part of you know the complexity of life as well that that everybody has

has a story of their own and motivations of their own and

I think for that and many other reasons it's very very powerful it's a very powerful book

and so you want to so on the one hand you're teaching your child the best way to to blind a cyclops which is wait till it falls asleep and stab it in the eye so something practical something practical there philosophical as well.

But somewhat more deeply, you're teaching your child that at any moment someone can sneak into your cave and hurt you, and your father, Poseidon, will not be around to stop it from happening.

And you can be hurt.

I can see how these messages might work.

Aslan, would you say that if someone

put a burning stick into Isak's only eye, that when they got home, you would make sure they had a bad time?

Yeah, I would.

I definitely would.

I think the other element is that, you know, there is like the one-eyed monster.

There's also like this sort of fantastical quality to this episode that where

like it's part of that reason that it doesn't strike me as

like crude and horribly violent.

Like I would never I despite what I'm communicating to you probably now is I'm I'm actually thoughtful about how what kinds of things I expose my son to, but I

like I would never read to him the last episode when Odysseus goes back to his home and finds the suitors and you know slays them and it's like sort of a butchery and that's really I don't know horrible.

But in this case, I don't know, it's like that element of like, you know, it's like the monsters and you know, like you go around, we're here, we're here recording on Halloween Day, actually, and you go around streets and you see stuff that is probably as scary as this, you know, dragons and all sorts of monstrous creatures, and they're interested in that, the kids.

Like yesterday, Aslan and Isak were taking a walk in the park and they saw some like skeletons coming out of the ground, you know, as Halloween decor goes.

And Isaac asked Aslan if when we walk on the grass we're stepping on dead people.

And Aslan's response was,

yes.

And

were you walking through a cemetery?

Or do you just believe that there

just,

you know, our garden?

The curve, yeah.

Are you just speaking more holistically about how the fact that we metaphorically and literally the ground is full of the remains of our ancestors?

Right.

Okay, without that explanation, though.

So my point is I think he should be more thoughtful throughout.

But I was thoughtful in my next response because he asked

if the dead felt pain when we stepped on them.

And I said, no.

Did you laugh maniacally?

And then did you spend the afternoon in the graveyard dancing on some graves with your son?

They can't feel anything.

All right.

Aslan, this is a very beautiful book.

I'm looking at the pictures.

It certainly appears to be an adult adaptation of this story.

Why did you choose this

bloody face

version of this classic tale when there were probably,

look,

there probably aren't any targeted at three-year-olds,

but maybe at eight or ten-year-olds.

So we were in Iowa, of all places.

I had officiated a friend's wedding, and I just want to throw that in because I'm very proud of having done that.

And then...

Good job.

Yeah.

And then

we went to a wonderful bookstore

in Des Moines called

City Lights.

And

we went to the basement.

They had like this beautiful children's section.

And Isaka actually went up to this book and he started browsing and he started looking at it and of course you know I

I like

the classic and ancient literature and I was like oh yeah like this is you know great so when you're a parent it's important to find things that you like also to share with your children because sometimes you know some of the stuff that you have to watch or read to them isn't very interesting.

I love Door of the Explorer.

I love it.

why would you suggest that i don't love it

it's not a trauma response i love it

i agree that paw patrol are on a roll right backpack backpack backpack backpack i'm the bag that's loaded up with things and knicknecks to anything that you could want i got it here for you backpack actually i do love door of the explorer because i just i just thought i love how that backpack sings it with that i don't know i don't know the musically how you would say but the beat is really funky in that backpack it's really offbeat i really love it you do sound a bit traumatized in my no i love door of the explorer it's great it's great chef i don't even know what you're talking about i really love it i can't think

i can't think of a i can't think of a piece of

a piece of oh

yeah okay i don't want to upset anybody i was gonna say i can't think of a piece of children's culture that I accidentally ingested because my child or one of our children wanted to watch it and I just couldn't stand it and I I had to white-knuckle my way through it.

If you were to ask my wife, who's a whole human being in her own right, she would say, Caillou.

Caillou was not tolerable for her.

And I see Jennifer Marmor nodding in the background.

Spidey is one of the things that I detest.

Spidey?

Yeah.

Spidey Man?

Have you seen Spidey Man?

Have you seen it?

No.

Never heard of it.

It is like a toddler version of Spider-Man

and his friends.

They're all like little kids, but there's Hulk and there's the,

I don't know their names, but they're really, really annoying.

Well, then, so tomorrow, you should have some sympathy with Aslan for picking something that not only he can enjoy, but is actually, you know, emotionally complex.

And, you know, Aslan, you mentioned that this was a story with like a good plot, and I agree with you.

I think this thing's going to be a classic someday.

It's a meaningful,

you know, it's been around for a long time.

And I certainly, I feel like I encountered these stories when I was a relatively young person reading my Dolares book of Greek myths or whatever.

Shout out Dolares.

So, you know, what would you prefer that

Eslan read instead?

I mean, I love that my three-year-old can teach me about Greek mythology and he has.

And I think that that should continue.

I just think that it should be more curated and

less violent.

Maybe some episodes can be, you know, not edited out.

Well, you mentioned also, if I may, that

when Isaac wakes up in the middle of the night, you go to him.

Is that your job typically?

No, it is both our jobs.

And Aslan has really done a good job of getting up with him in the middle of the night.

I'm just saying it should be completely his responsibility if

he keeps on giving him the nightmares.

Right.

So let's say now it's 50-50,

you would ask that it's 100%.

Yes.

Had he had nightmares before this book?

Or is this solely attributable to the book?

I mean, obviously every kid has nightmares, but did they have they changed in quality, Tamar?

Yeah, I think

Maybe when he like turned three, he had like a couple of nightmares, but I can't remember what they were, but um

he wasn't having nightmares.

But I will say that he's never been a good sleeper, so it's always been like our one issue with him.

So, you know, once he started sleeping kind of better, giving him nightmares is not ideal.

What is his bedtime routine?

Um he takes a bath and then um he has uh some fruit while we read him books.

He's really into the books.

What are some of the other books that you like and that he likes too?

It rotates.

He's been really into some

cat in the hat books.

We have some in Spanish that he really likes.

There's another one that I feel like it's kind of violent, too.

It's the worst woman in the world, but in Spanish.

No, the cat in the hat's kind of a jerk.

Yeah.

The cat is a

monster.

Talk about a monster.

That's a very one-sided portrayal of a monster.

You don't get a sense of the cat in the hat's humanity.

He's just an agent, an abusive agent of chaos, as far as I can remember.

But the series, the series is great.

There's one, actually, in the piece of evidence that I don't know if Damar submitted this or I did, but

he's choosing among the different cat in the hat series books and the floor.

And

there's one that says

Sam and the Firefly.

And that is just my favorite book to read to him.

It's such a wonderful.

And it's not by Dr.

Seuss.

The cat is not there.

Yeah, the cat is not there, right?

So

it's not a fair qualification, but it's yeah, it's just a wonderful book.

It's obviously published under the cat in the hat books imprint.

Right.

But it's not a Dr.

Seuss book.

What is it about?

It's about

the friendship of

a skill killer.

An owl and an owl and a firefly who finds a way to say that.

In a way it's about police and criminals, but really

it's a story about how the city of Baltimore is a kind of reflection of a grander dysfunction.

And that all institutions basically grow until they are corrupt and serve only themselves.

Yeah, but there's this one guy.

There's this one criminal who's really fun.

Right.

And that's the plot of the farmer in the dell.

Yeah.

I notice also in this wonderful photo that Isak is wearing spidey pajamas.

Yes.

Spidey jammies.

Has this taken over your life, Tamar, Spidey?

It has not.

We have really, I think I've done a good job of avoiding it and pushing him towards bluey um and snoopy and some other things and yeah tomorrow also there's a photo of some cake here and what is this pertaining to uh yes so that is the day of the dead bread that we are making at my bakery now for day of the dead um

and it was one of the things that happened this last week when

i i brought the the bread and i told isac that it was uh the bread that we eat during during Day of the Dead.

And he said, oh, is that the day that I'm going to die?

And

so he has a lot of questions about death.

Well, first of all, it looks delicious.

And you have a bakery in Chicago?

Yes, I do.

Go ahead and say the name of it.

It's masa madre, means mother dough.

It's a Mexican-Jewish bakery.

Fantastic.

And this Day of the Dead bread looks really, really delicious.

It's good.

But, you know, look,

isn't the Day of the Dead supposed to be about ruminating on death to some degree?

I mean, really, this is a pretty provocative cake to bring into your home if you don't want your son to be thinking about death.

It is.

And I actually, I think it's good that, you know, there's a conversation about death and that it's not like a taboo thing.

And, you know, whenever

a close death will happen in the family, I feel like it will be easier to explain maybe.

But I just don't want him to be, you know, obsessed with it and with gory

details.

Have you done any research into how developmentally appropriate it is for Isak to be ruminating on death in this way?

I have not, but I have talked to other parents who think that this is an age where they start to get obsessed with death.

Right.

And I guess really,

have you ever asked Isak, either one of you, do you, you know, this book seems to be giving you some nightmares.

Should we take a break from it?

Has that ever come up?

He did say the other day, right?

Yeah.

So I asked if he if he wanted me to read the

polyphemus story, and he said, no, that gives me nightmares, so I don't want that tonight.

What are we even doing here, Isak?

What are we even doing here?

But yesterday I asked again and he seemed to be open to the idea.

Open or prowbeaten.

So when was the last time you read it to him?

Last week.

Okay.

So a few days ago you said you want to do it tonight.

He said no thanks.

And then yesterday

you said,

do you want to read it tonight?

And he seemed open to the idea.

What did he say exactly, do you recall?

Yeah, he said, sure, but then the book wasn't at hand because we had it downstairs to get it ready to bring it over to the studio so we could show it to you guys.

So it just

wasn't at hand.

Right.

And,

you know, it will live in that studio forever, probably.

If I rule in Tamar's favor,

it's going to become a permanent fixture in the abandoned books and magazines pile at that studio.

We can save it for his 13th birthday.

You say that you found it

in the kids section of the bookstore in Iowa.

Is that right?

Yeah, I mean, I guess it was, to be fair, children slash young adult section.

I'm going to say that the images are a little haunting.

They're very beautiful.

It's a really beautifully made book.

Yeah, it's beautifully illustrated.

And the one that I stopped reading to him after I realized, well, this is like

when they go into the underworld,

they have to give the ghosts, the ghosts have to drink blood in order to speak.

And, you know, they're sort of ravid.

They just need the blood, right?

And so they sort of

come up to

this pit where Odysseus has poured some

sheep blood.

And they start drinking from it.

And yeah, that I thought maybe that's too much, you know.

know.

Judge Hodgman, you know, that was one of the first historical examples of Draculus being able to have any job.

I don't know what you're talking about.

How do you, as parents, handle violent, other violent images or provocative images on television or in movies?

I mean, he's three.

He's watching some form of Spidey.

I presume that there's no...

real violence there.

Does this come up in any other media?

Yeah, I think it's something we really try to avoid.

I mean, on the one hand, he is obsessed with Nightmare Before Christmas.

He's dressing up as Jack Skellington tonight for Halloween.

And, you know, he likes all the skeletons and the things happening there.

But I don't think it is a violent movie, most of it.

But in general, we really avoid violence in T V.

Or maybe not violence, but

scary things.

You know, scary things.

Yeah, he really likes scary things.

I think I played for him Home Alone once, and he's really into that movie.

Maybe also not age-appropriate, but

he really likes scary things.

Well, I mean, it's a fantasy, you know, that all kids, I think, play with is what would happen if mom and dad weren't here.

It's a terrifying fantasy

in some ways.

And the reason I haven't seen Home Alone

since then, I suppose.

But like, maybe I'm making too much of Home Alone, but it's like, yeah, this is a dream come true and a nightmare at the same time.

Like, it would be terrifying if your parents weren't around.

And

that intersection of horror and fun is a lot of the time where comedy comes from.

The contemplating

thing that scares you the most either can provoke a scream or a laugh.

Do you do any Maurice Sendak in your house?

Like Where the Wild Things Are?

Yeah.

Yeah, he likes that.

Yeah, I'm not surprised.

The scary book.

It's a very scary book about that very thing.

In fact, not a lot of people know that

Home Alone is based on Where the Wild Things Are.

It was the first adaptation of Where the Wild Things Are.

Uncle Buck is actually based on In the Night Kitchen.

That's exactly so.

I'm Molly Russell's Wart.

That's a deep cut from Uncle Buck.

Boy, that's a good movie.

I mean, at least I remember it being funny.

I don't want to vouch for any movie that I haven't seen in 25 years or whatever.

So we know what Tamar would like

as an ideal ruling here.

That would be for you, Aslan, to research before reading books to Isaac.

Look at it, make sure it's appropriate.

I guess in consultation with Tamar, right?

Wouldn't you say Tamara?

Yes.

Because clearly I have no sense of

what's appropriate.

I mean, Isak is a very,

I would say he's a very bright kid, and I feel like sometimes he fools us into thinking that he's much older than he really is.

So I think it makes it easy for us to

to push things that are not age-appropriate.

Tamar, how would you characterize what is appropriate for Itzak at his age?

I don't know.

I think that

maybe

when we read to him or he watches the question that he has, we are

somewhat

okay answering.

I don't know.

I think it's hard, but I think

just violence is not

eating humans and

lots of blood, maybe it's not.

No,

humans eating humans or just anyone,

like if it was a lion or a tiger, would that be okay?

Something that in the real world would

be human.

Yeah, maybe humans eating humans.

So when Isak has questions about the story, like, is he a good guy or a bad guy, how do you handle those?

How do you answer?

I try to explain in the simplest terms possible.

Very often, Tamar will laugh because I go on in an elaborate explanation and he's just like he's lost me in the first couple of words.

Well, all right, let's do a little role play.

Daddy Islan,

is polyphemus a good guy or a bad guy?

Well, listen, the

complexity of good and evil in this world is not a question that can be answered straightforwardly.

We have to consider that the experience of poor Polyphemus is also

individual experience, and he's the son of Poseidon himself.

Did you say you can have another candy?

Dad, what's the best train?

How do planes fly?

Let the record show that Aslan took out his dissertation.

Are you actually able to resolve those questions with Isak,

or do those explanations float past him?

Often they will float past him, but often I am able to get something through.

Like,

you know, in this case, you know, something terrible also happened to him, and he also has a father who's angry, and that is why Odysseus is having so much trouble coming back, not because, you know, the forces of evil are against him, but because,

the father loved his son as well.

And that's, and that I think I got through, for instance, in that case.

And

yeah.

But it's hard.

Yeah,

that's a hard question, too.

Those are hard moments.

And I think more often than not, I totally flunked the test.

Sorry, I didn't hear that.

I was trying to think about what the best train is.

Would you feel differently if

this were not illustrated?

If

Eslan was simply reading an adaptation of or the actual Odyssey?

Yes, I think so.

I remember having watched a movie about the Odyssey when I was young, and that was

animated, and I don't feel like it gave me nightmares at all.

It was probably very edited for kids, but I'm sure there's there's other versions that are less less violent.

well i'm i'm talking about versions without pictures at all you know a telling of the story where the picture is only in the mind's eye as opposed to burned into your son's eye yes like a burning stick

yeah i think that's worth exploring uh-huh aslan

if i were to rule in tomorrow's favor and suggest that you put this on the shelf, how would you feel?

What would you be missing?

I don't know.

That's a hard question to answer.

I'm

like, since

I think the overall meaning of the book for me has to do with the whole structure, right?

Like it's the whole idea of coming back home and

the role of

pain and

of personal pain and experience and

bravery.

Those things sort of come out only if you really do read the entire thing.

And I don't know, I guess

I would be okay.

I would be.

Have you not finished?

I mean, you said that there are certain sections you wouldn't read to him anyway.

Yeah, no,

we just come back.

We just come back to the same episodes.

The same.

Right.

So it's not as though, it's not as though my ruling is going to affect whether or not you finish the book.

You have effectively worked your way through it at least once.

So it's a question of whether you would revisit it.

But not with him, though.

I haven't

worked my way through the book with him because it's pretty long.

So I would actually need a more age-appropriate thing to work my way through.

So you still have more that you want to read to him of the book.

I'm just clarifying that.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

I see.

What part is left?

You've already done Scylla and Charybdis.

You did

Polyphemus.

You said you skipped the part where he comes home and

swords to death all of his rivals for Penelope's hand.

That's the end, isn't it?

Is there more?

This really is an Odyssey.

How much more is there of this book?

There's,

I mean, yeah, there's the beautiful part about the underworld, but I've already ruled it out as well.

So

yeah

i mean the coming home and the sun and things like that yeah i mean that the the the part of the recognition and the right before the um they slay the suitors that's uh that's a pretty moving moment when the

when the servant recognizes him because of his scar and all of that um

yeah i feel like we have the book right there what's the last page what's the i mean i don't

spoiler alert for those of you who have never read the Odyssey.

What's the last panel?

The last panel reads

Bracum,

stop, son of Lyrtes.

You must put away your sword if you would live in peace.

Fulfill the prophecy of Tiresias, and you will die gently in old age, and your name will live forever in story and song.

Say the end.

The end.

Thanks, Dad.

Good story.

I think I've heard everything I I need to in order to make my decision, but I do have a lot to think over.

So I'm going to go now to

my chambers, which this week are located in a coastal cave in Greece.

And I'm going to consult the many, many fossilized skulls of Pleistocene-era dwarf elephants that are lying around this cave.

And I hope they will give me the wisdom to reach a verdict.

And I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Tamar, how are you feeling?

Pretty good.

I think

Aslan

did not make a case for himself.

I think he does, but

I think we both know that this

we can reach, you know, a verdict that is good for both of us.

We're not going to take away his

telling of Greek mythology.

Just

as long as it's more edited and towards his age, I think I feel good about that.

Just focus on the non-violent parts, like siring children with cows.

Yes.

Aslan, how are you feeling?

I'm feeling good as well.

I like the opportunity of talking through this with you and the judge and Tamar.

And I think that we are

yeah I think I do feel like I have to you know stand

by stand

in my position and sort of try to try to try to make my case and and I

do think I've I've made the case but at the same time I I agree that we can

there is some kind of

compromise that we can come to.

Well, Tamar, Aslan, we'll see what the judge has to say when we come back in just a moment.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case.

Let's talk about what we have going on.

Well, I don't have a lot going on.

Dicktown, of course, is available on Hulu, et cetera, et cetera.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who joined me on the phone bank to New Hampshire on Sunday.

It was really great to see some of you there.

And, you know, as I'm recording this, the outcome of the midterm elections is still unknown.

So I live in crossed-fingered hope that

we're going to see a Congress that reflects our values going forward.

But whatever happens, at least y'all did a little bit extra, and that's all you can do sometimes.

So thank you for that.

Jesse Thorne, what's going on with you?

Well, on my NPR show, Bullseye, we just had a great interview with the legendary Weird Al Yankovic.

about his new movie, Weird, and his life and times.

He is, of course, one of the loveliest people in show business.

And if you're a Weird Al fan or have just always wondered what the human being behind those goofy songs is like, you can give that a listen on Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

This week and this coming week, we have two great comedy people.

I love Bruce McCullough of the Kids in the Hall.

One of the greats.

Who is a brilliant and fascinating dude, not just a brilliant comedy guy, but a fascinating guy.

And Bashir Salahuddin, who is the co-creator of both, of two of the best comedies on television right now, Sherman's Showcase, which is a fantastic kind of sketch comedy soul train parody that's

one of the funniest shows on cable.

And then Southside, which is a hilarious kind of slice of life

comedy about South Chicago that is so great.

And he's, yeah, he co-created both of them.

He's Sherman on Sherman's Showcase.

He is an amazing dude.

And then in the Put This On shop, it is the holiday season and we are adding new stuff every day.

Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow.

We just added, please don't.

We just added

these, these sort of century-old tobacco premium pins, these little pinbacks that have flags of the world and breeds of dogs.

And they're so beautiful and the perfect thing for, you know, the special Slovak.

or husky lover in your life.

And they're all at putthisonshop.com, along with imminently a bunch of vintage leather flight jackets.

So if you're looking for a cool jacket for the fall, go to putthisonshop.com.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

There's a little myth, a little Grecian myth

that

first was recorded in Hesiod's Works and Days.

A little story about Pandora's box.

You opened this box already

and all the scary stuff came out and is living in your son's head and

you can't put it back in the box.

It's done.

It's donezo.

You already did it.

He's already having the dreams of eating apples off your leg.

Your severed leg.

Tamara, who severed the leg again?

He did, and he ate the leg with the apples.

With the apples.

I mean, yeah.

Well, you got to season it.

You got to season it.

That's a nice combo.

Yeah.

Like a pork crust.

Yeah, exactly.

Very autumnal.

And I'm a child psychologist.

It should be very obvious here.

And, you know, if you want a real ruling on what is developmentally appropriate for your three-year-old, go talk to a child psychologist and show them this book and go, did I mess up here?

Or no?

I think that, but I think that can I can get enough from this dream, which is that clearly, Aslan, you're associated with some gory stuff and some delicious legs and apples.

But then I point out that Tamar comes in and puts the leg back.

And clearly she's associated with repairing the damage that you're causing to his little mind.

Is it damage exactly?

Well, that's for the child psychologist and maybe

a child's librarian to help you with there.

It's a damage.

I don't want to say that Aesak is damaged.

He's smart.

I used to see these photos of this kid.

This kid's one of the best kids.

I'm going to just put it out there.

He looks so bright and smart.

He's going to be Jack Skellington.

He loves Henry Selleck movies.

But that's it.

I wouldn't let him see Coraline if I were you.

That movie's scary.

It's another Henry Selleck movie.

And I'd probably get money if he saw it because I get a royalty from it because I had a small part in that movie.

That movie, I think, is much scarier visually and thematically than A Nightmare Before Christmas, right?

Because that's another story

of leaving one's parents, leaving one's home, going on an odyssey and being tempted and having difficulty to get back again.

You're not wrong, Islam, that the story has a real grip

on children of all ages, as they say, on the sides of toys, you know, because going away from home and then and being attracted to go away from home and then yearning for home and having trouble getting back.

I mean, it is a story of Coraline, it's a story of Odyssey, it's a story of home alone in a reverse sort of way.

It's a story of where the wild things are.

It's attractive because it's scary.

One of the things about this kid, Isak, that I thought was really interesting was that you said he's so bright that he seems older than he is.

And this is where I urge you to take caution.

Sometimes parents like to get ahead of themselves because they really want to share the stories and the things that they care about that are meaningful to them.

And so they might

say like, yeah, you know, I think it's about time that my son and I watch The Shining.

You know what I mean?

And Aslan, you also point out that it's important to find stuff that you enjoy as much as your child.

And there's truth in that, that, in the sense that you want to find something that shares your values and that speaks to you in some way so that you can share that together, right?

But

you don't want to be entertaining yourself at your kids' expense, at the expense of their happiness and well-being, you know?

Ultimately, I think that this was a really interesting experiment to run.

As I say, the demons are out of the Pandora's box already.

They're going to live in his head.

I think that it's probably appropriate for him to be thinking about death and what death means.

And it's appropriate for you to answer, you know, honestly, as honestly as you can and as respectfully as you can of his intelligence and his curiosity.

I don't think that talking about death or thinking about death is inappropriate at any age.

I mean, it's just...

one of the scariest things that we think and talk about all the time, all the time.

I don't think there's anything, any benefit in protecting him from that conversation.

That's why you have things like the Day of the Dead festival.

But entertaining your child's natural curiosity about morbid concepts is not the same as scaring them.

And as I say, Aslan, I know it was not your intention to scare him.

I'm not surprised that he has an attraction to this story, but these pictures are scary.

These pictures are scary.

If you were reading in the Odyssey without pictures, I wonder whether he would be having the nightmares.

But these visuals are scary.

I think they're probably for the young adults in the young adult section, young adult and children's section of the bookstore there in Iowa.

I mean, it's scary, it's scary stuff.

Being scared is part of being a child and processing fear as part of being a child and reassuring them

that this is a story and not real life, that there are no cyclopses, et cetera, that we know of.

That's all part of it.

And I think that he'll come out of this the better.

But it doesn't mean that it was necessary advisable to start with, especially when there's so much.

I mean, it's like

you will soon have a child who is more is more than old enough to take this in without waking up in the middle of the night.

Let me put it this way: you want to share an experience with your child when you're reading a book, the thoughts and feelings that a book promotes or provokes.

You don't want to share trauma responses.

Like,

it's not the greatest thing to my ears that both you and your son are having nightmares about drowning.

You know, like you're experiencing, and by the way, congratulations on

your working on your dissertation, is it?

Yes.

I mean, I know it's hard.

I know that it must, I mean, I don't know because I don't have a PhD.

I have a barely have a bachelor's degree in literature, but I mean, like, that's a lot of work.

And I'm not surprised that you feel like you're drowning and having anxiety dreams about it.

And I'm not surprised that Isaac is having scary dreams about going down in a whirlpool when you're showing him pictures of a whirlpool all the time.

What's your PhD on?

Biblical studies, Hebrew Bible.

Oh, okay.

Well, there you go.

Just read him the Bible.

That's the best book there is, right?

Number one book.

Better yet, read him your

dissertation.

That'll put him to sleep.

Sorry.

I'm sure that's true.

Couldn't resist.

Definitely.

It's terrific.

So, you know, I truly think this is one where there's like no harm, no foul.

But

I would say you can leave that book on the shelf for a little bit until he asks for it.

And then,

you know,

see if he does.

See if he asks for it.

See if he misses it.

You know, if he misses it and wants to come back to it, unless a child psychologist disagrees with me and I urge you to consult one because

I kind of am over my skis on this one.

But if he asks for it, then you know it's like he's trying to process it still.

And

then I would say you can go ahead and read it to him

and you can go ahead and have a conversation with him about what he's feeling and why as best as you can with a three-year-old.

And Islan,

when you are enjoying culture with Isaac and their questions come up like,

is he good or bad?

You should maybe draft something that's a little bit more age-appropriate to have on hand.

A little less dissertation-y and a little bit more like, well,

there's good and bad in everyone.

And no one ever thinks they're the bad guy.

And let's see if that works.

Just take, you know, there's a reason why we have kids' books, and then there's a reason why we have dissertations.

They're different genres.

So I make no judgment.

I guess I have find in your favor, Eslan, because you won.

There was a summary judgment in your favor at the beginning.

But I do it with much advisement.

It's like

you did the damage already.

You're going to do a lot more damage, both of you, as parents,

without realizing it and without intending to.

So let this serve as

a warning, as a parable to try to be a little bit mindful of the damage that you might be doing as you're doing it.

And then you can do less.

Oh, one last thing.

You're definitely on nightmare duty for the next six months.

This is the sound of a soft gavel.

In constant sorrow

through his days.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Asalan, how are you feeling about your qualified victory?

I am feeling fantastic.

I I do feel like that

last

clause in the verdict about being

on nightmare duty for six months definitely qualifies it a little bit more.

But those were

elucidating words from the judge,

and I appreciate that very much.

So, yeah, I'm feeling good.

Tamar, how are you feeling?

I feel good.

I feel like that's sort of a win.

That's what I wanted to do, to have Aslan be more mindful of what he's reading, to put it on the shelf and

be on nightmare duty.

So I feel good.

I feel like it's a compromise that

I was looking for at least.

Well, Tamar Aslan, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

This was fun.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In a moment, we will have Swift Justice.

First, our thanks to Twitter user at the real sobrero for naming this week's episode Homer Confinement.

If you want to name a future episode, make sure you're following us there on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

While you're there, you can hashtag your judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ H.O.

Homer Confinement is really good, but Jesse, I just want to shout out a runner-up at Whiskey and Grit who suggested closing Argonauts.

I really, I really love that one.

But Jason and the Argonauts is a different story.

It's not, it's not Odysseus.

Different story.

Someone get into a conflict about Jason and the Argonauts, so we can use that one.

You can join the conversation about the show on Reddit at maximumfun.reddit.com.

We post evidence from the show and sometimes other stuff at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman, as well as on the episode page at maximumfun.org.

Make sure to follow us over there on Instagram.

This episode was recorded by Max Fabian at Tightrope Recording in Chicago.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmor.

Our editor is Valerie Moffat.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Twitter user at MichelleTheFan says, My husband is a chronic song skipper.

As a song nears the end, he'll skip to the next track.

I know the driver gets to control the music, but I think he goes too far.

At least let the song end.

Yeah, I could see how that would be

wildly annoying.

So you have the right, Michelle the fan, to be annoyed.

But if your husband is doing that while you are in the car and he's driving, I'm afraid it has to stand.

Settled law.

The driver controls the music.

It's not just a matter, it's not a matter of tyranny.

It's a matter of keeping the situation safe for the driver.

If there's some end to this, maybe

a slow fade-out

will cause your husband to be distracted and go off the road.

Sorry.

I got to let settled law stand here, even though I don't like it.

I don't like that habit at all.

Do you think there are more music-related disputes out there?

I think there probably are.

Well, you know, we're working our way through a big one right now, which is what is the best song

about airships, dirigibles, blimps,

semi-rigid inflatables, Zeppelins, all lighter than hot air balloons, all lighter than aircraft.

This is arguably the Ur question of all music.

Which is the best Zeppelin song,

but not which is the best Led Zeppelin song, which is the best song about Leppe.

Which is not song about Zeppelins, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And I just want everyone to know, thank you for all your suggestions.

I've got all that I need.

You don't need to send in any more Zeppelin songs of any kind.

I got 32 hot ones,

and I'm figuring out how to work them into a bracket style

March Madness poll situation so you can vote on them round by round.

So we can finally settle this for our listener, Jared, who believes Empire of the Clouds by Iron Maiden is the best song about airships ever written.

Maybe it's so.

You'll decide.

And as soon as I know how to do this, I'm going to announce how it's going to be done.

And it'll be done online.

And we'll report the voting as we go through each round.

But in the meantime, is there a best song about, I don't know what, donuts?

Of course there is.

Ivar Cutler's a Donut in My Hand, but maybe there's another one about donuts.

Is there a best song about,

I don't know, what's the topic of a song?

Love?

Yeah, I guess.

There have probably been songs written about that.

I can't think of one, but.

Yeah, there's too many songs about love.

Is there a best song about shoes?

Is there a best song about clothes?

Is there a best song that mentions a state in it?

You know, Anito Day sings that song about Massachusetts.

It's a swing song.

What's your favorite song about trains?

Is it Roger Miller's King of the Road, or is there another one?

If you've got a dispute with someone about which is the best kind of song, non-love songs only, please.

There are too many of those.

Sorry, Paul McCartney.

Send them in, won't you?

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H.

O.

Of course, we are eager to hear about disputes on any subject.

No cases too big, no cases too small.

Send them to maximumfund.org/slash JJHO, and we shall adjudicate them.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFun.org.

Comedy and Culture.

Artist-owned.

Audience Supported.