Birthday B.S. Corpus

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Birthday BS Corpus.

Brandy files suit against her husband, Greg.

Greg's birthday falls in August, but he'd like to change it to October 17th.

She wants to be able to celebrate on his actual date of birth.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

There is something about the middle years of life, the 40s to 50s, that makes a man take a long, hard look at himself.

For then it is that he comes face to face with the ashes of his dreams and realizes that he is most definitely not going to write the great American novel, or become president of the company, or become a multimillionaire, or even the host of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Brandy and Greg, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

Yes, or whatever.

Yes.

Thank you.

I don't want to hear any or whatevers.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he hasn't celebrated a birthday in over 25 years?

I do.

Yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Brandy and Greg, you may be seated or whatever.

Don't let Barrick

push you around like that, Brandy.

You can say or whatever.

Judge Hodgman, I'm tired of people responding to that prompt as though their choices are yes, no, and whatever.

They're not there to dismiss what I'm saying.

It's an option to choose between God or whatever whatever they would like to swear by.

Jesse, we've done this for a long time.

You know you're my very close friend.

Shut your piehole.

How do you like that?

Wow.

I can't see my friend, Jesse, because we're not doing teleconferencing.

We're back to old school.

We're in the studio.

And maybe I really hurt his feelings.

Jesse, I'm sorry.

Jesse, are you there?

That is all.

Oh,

turn about his fair play.

That is a dagger in my spleen.

Good job, Jesse Thorne.

But for an immediate summary judgment and one of your favors, Brandy or Greg, can you name the piece of culture that I reference as I entered this fake internet courtroom?

Brandy, we start with you.

Oh, no.

I don't know.

Brandy.

Brandy.

Yeah, something with Matthew Broderick being really old in a movie.

That's as close as I can.

Oh, okay.

Wow.

That was, I thought you were.

That's a good guess.

I like that guess.

But I can't think of a movie where he may have said that.

Like, for example,

you know what it feels like?

The movie Election.

Yeah.

Right?

I can't, I didn't say that.

No, but I'm going to put that in.

Election.

That's a good guess.

That's a good guess because that's a movie about a midlife crisis.

Yeah.

Directed by Alexander Payne, based on the novel by my friend and former teacher, Tom Parada.

And there's a sequel to the book Election that just came out a few months ago.

It's called Heat 2 by Michael Mann.

No.

No.

No.

It's called Tracy Flick Can't Win.

Greg, what's your guess?

Well, as you were reading it, I was going to say that's the entry from a young John Hodgman's diary, circa age 14 or 15,

until you got to the last part.

That's also a very good guess.

I got to say, Greg, that's a great guess because it's definitely the case that were I keeping a diary at the age of 14 or 15, I definitely would be concerned with middle age.

I mean, that is very accurate.

I definitely be worried about having not accomplished enough in middle age at that point.

So John Hodgman's diary from age 14 or 15.

Yes.

Good guess.

Both guesses are wrong, which is to say all guesses are wrong.

So we will hear the case.

This is actually this opening paragraph from a section.

Now I've lost it, of course, a section on page 15 of this book.

The section was called Boredom and Frustration.

And it is part of a chapter that describes why people might choose to abandon their families and establish an entirely new identity by stealing another person's birthday and birth certificate, preferably a dead person, and becoming a different person.

And it's called, it's from a book from 1985 called How to Disappear Completely and Never Be Found by Doug Richmond.

It was published by Loompanics Unlimited Press.

Loompanics was a very weird, alternative sort of anarchic press in the 80s.

And I happen to have a copy of this lying around and I was thinking about it because one of the things that I looked up while preparing for this case, and yes, I do prepare for them, is is there a way to legally change your birthday?

I mean, obviously, changing your birth year is unfeasible, but can you legally change your birthday the way you can change your name?

And guess what, Greg?

What?

You can't do it.

What?

No, not legally.

Outrageous.

The only way and reason to do it is to illegally change your birth date because you're assuming a new identity to escape from your shrew of a spouse brandy.

Finally live your life sailing on a boat.

It's a very petty, small, and mean little book.

It tells a lot of stories of guys who left their nagging spouses to go sail around the world or become adventurers.

It's pure gross fantasy, but it's an enjoyable read.

It's an artifact, if you will.

So here we are.

We're going to hear this case.

Who comes to this court to seek justice and what justice does that person seek?

That would be I, Brandy.

So I've asked my friend

to celebrate his birthday in August when his birthday takes place thereabouts

and not on, he's he's picked October 17th and has for a long time, but I'm just like, we're not celebrating your birthday at all if we just don't celebrate it in August.

So wait, I thought this was, I misunderstood.

I thought this case was about Greg wanting to change his birthday from August.

What is your actual, what is the date of your birth, Greg?

August 8th.

August the 8th.

And wanting to change it to October 17th.

But Brandy, you're telling me that this is already happening.

No, no.

So what's happening is I would go to him on August.

I'm like, hey, let's celebrate your birthday.

And he says, no, I want to celebrate it in October.

And then that just doesn't happen because I say you're ridiculous.

Your birthday is in August.

Oh, okay.

So you veto him on that.

Yeah.

And then you force a birthday party on him on August 8th.

Well, that's the thing is I don't force a birthday.

Shove a cake in front of his ma and sing happy birthday to to him.

That's exactly how it happened.

Well, that's how it's happening.

Like

your parents call you on your birthday.

Or Brandy.

Or you wait, or you wait till he blows out the candles and then sing happy birthday.

Which style of family are you?

Oh, we're definitely sing before the candles, I think.

Sing before blowout candles.

Yeah, sing before blowing out candles.

Yeah.

Right.

Do I care?

Do I care about when Greg celebrates his birthday?

You obviously care, Brandy.

Why does this irk you so?

Well, honestly, my birthday is in August as well.

I like that our birthdays are close.

When is your birthday?

August 22nd.

So they're two weeks apart.

And

I mean, it is his actual birthday.

And like you said, it's really illegal to change it.

So it's always recognized by his family, his friends.

Everyone knows when his birthday is.

I'd like to celebrate his birthday because we love him.

And he's just kind of like denied it to the point that like now our kids are confused when their dad's birthday is.

And it says here that,

Greg, you are in your 40s.

So you are at that time of life when you are contemplating your dreams turning into ashes, as we discussed before.

And Brandy, it says that here that you are a flight attendant.

Yes.

Fantastic.

Is it exciting and glamorous life?

I'm going to say yes

because I still enjoy it.

But I wouldn't say it's really glamorous.

It's not.

The people I'm acquainted with who are flight attendants really enjoy it a lot.

Yeah.

I have to say.

I mean, I'm sure that it's not as glamorous as it used to be, although, well, I'm sure that it's it's only gotten harder,

particularly over the past couple of years.

So thanks for hanging in there.

And Greg, it says here that you work in insurance, but that you're particularly obsessed with numerology, specifically the numbers 1017.

Is that right?

Or did I make that up?

Well, I do work in insurance.

I'm not sure what significance those numbers have.

Oh, it's 1017, Greg, the date that you are fixated upon.

I'm trying to find some understanding of why you care about October 17th.

So let's get into it.

Why do you want to change legally or no, your birthday from August the 8th, right?

Well, first, you have to start with my.

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Hang on.

Let me do the math.

I'm terrible at subtraction.

Everyone knows this.

That's okay.

You're turning.

Okay, you're okay.

I mean, I knew it couldn't be as good as this.

I thought maybe you would have been born 8, 8,

Oh, you're so good.

Which would be the most incredible number of all time.

You're only off by 10 years.

Well, I don't want, I don't want, okay.

Now everyone can put together your exact birthday.

Enjoy his identity, identity thief.

Yeah, goodbye, identity.

But that's what I want.

Maybe you'll have to start a new birthday now because Greg is going to disappear.

He's going to be taken over by some passport thief.

Okay, so you don't like 8-8,

but you do like 10-17.

Tell me why.

So it starts with my absolute hatred of August.

August is easily the worst month of the year.

I don't know a single person who likes August, and for me, it's especially painful.

It's hot in August.

You've just made it through July, which was awful, but it's okay.

You have a holiday in there.

Utah, we actually have a couple holidays and then you get to August and it's just one miserable day after the other.

I see.

And August has nothing, right?

Yeah.

It's disgusting.

No day, no day worth remembering.

No, no national holiday.

Yeah, oh, it's just all junk days, including August 22nd.

It's only the birthday of your beloved.

Well, I don't hold that against you.

What about August 17th, the birthday of Hodgmanillo, our son?

Well,

what's the weather like on that day?

You hate it because it's hot.

You hate August.

It's no fun.

Oh, yeah.

No fun to have a party.

No, it's not fun to have a party.

I mean, we're not big on parties to begin with, but we like to have a couple of friends over, do something small.

And for me, it'd be nice to get up in the mountains, go out there, have a little cookout, bring the cake up.

And August just is not the time for anything outdoors, even up in the mountains.

So

your main feeling of hating your birthday is temperature.

Oh, it's awful.

Yeah, I have three weather apps on my phone that I check constantly.

I see.

All August long, just, I guess, just to know how miserable I should feel.

Are you hoping that one will contradict the other?

Exactly.

Yeah, if you don't like the one, you go to the second one and hope for a second, a better second opinion.

So it's not like childhood trauma or disappointment that your birthday's in the summer.

So

all your little playmates were on summer vacation and you couldn't have a good birthday party or whatever.

It's not like people who are born around

the major winter holidays feeling overlooked.

You just don't like the temperature.

Well, now that you mentioned that, I never had my birthday celebrated in school wow I never thought of that before wow no never thought of it huh neither did I Greg what about October 17th you just like the temperature better oh yeah so September's okay it can still be awfully hot though exhibit a would be this past September when it hit 107 in Salt Lake City

by mid-October you're kind of past the early part of October where it can still be in the 80s and you really get into those nice fall days the leaves have changed it's nice and cool in the mornings.

The sun sets early.

And you just get into these wonderful days, highs like maybe in the mid-70s, if you're lucky, mid-60s.

You know, the house feels great.

It's cool inside.

You don't have to run the AC.

The heat's not on yet.

And, you know, just a wonderful day.

Let me say,

I can't see you, but your voice is so placid and wonderful in describing this scene that I feel like I'm listening to Bob Ross the painter.

It's wonderful.

Are you a Utah by birth or for most of your life?

Yeah, for the majority of my life, all but four or five years.

I mean, you could move rather than change your birthday.

You could move to a more temperate clime.

I mean, I don't know where you would need to go at this point, probably Winnipeg.

Have you heard of Maine?

I have heard of Maine.

But we have actually discussed that.

But Argentina and Chile,

a little far away from family.

So you're talking about going below the equator to flip the script on the entire seasonal system.

Exactly.

I wish I really were a deranged millionaire so I could fund this antipodal move.

Just say, okay, here's all the money in the world.

Go move.

Go move to Buenos Aires.

What a life you would have.

Talk about leaving it all behind.

Talk about disappearing forever and never being found.

Except you'd be found.

But yeah, I guess that's a little far from family.

So how when did you first start thinking about October?

Why October 17th specifically?

Is that a special day on the almanac?

No, nothing really special with the day.

It's far enough away from the end of October, you're not messing with Halloween.

Okay.

And it's just past kind of the middle of October where, again, you're kind of past all those really hot days that you get during the summer, kind of guaranteed to be in the nice, cool mornings, wonderful nights, and just a real pleasant time of year.

Just keep it rolling, Greg.

I'm having, I'm just really having a real ASMR moment.

This is fantastic.

Brandy, why does it matter?

I mean,

what's the big deal about celebrating it in October?

I don't think it's going to happen.

Like, it's October 17th today that we're recording.

And he, I know, and he hasn't.

I didn't even notice that.

Oh, my gosh.

It truly is a power number.

Fantastic.

1017.

All right.

Phone calls, text messages, group chats.

I just don't see people celebrating it or acknowledging his birthday.

And so,

and I just, we haven't planned for it.

Plus, I'd like to point out that our anniversary is exactly one week from today.

So, we got married on October 24th and we end up doing something for that.

We go sometimes on a trip or to the cabin or something.

We do something fun for that.

So it's kind of too close to actually acknowledge Greg's birthday on October 17th.

I'd like to acknowledge it and celebrate him.

Craig, it's true that even if.

Even if everyone in your immediate circle, family and so forth and friends were to agree to suspend reality and start celebrating celebrating October 17th.

You're now really loading up the front of the holiday, what we call the holiday season, because now you got, you got your, your Paniwani birthday, your anniversary, Halloween,

the November holiday,

the December holidays, New Year's Eve.

It's a little, a little much.

You're trying to align yourself with these big holidays because you feel like in August, you're not important enough?

No, no, I see it differently.

So we have one kid born in July.

There's two of us in August, Brandy and myself, and then our third kid's born in September.

So why not take my birthday from August and keep the fun going in October?

Brandy, you say your argument is this will never happen.

But what I'm asking is,

why don't you want it to happen?

Because it could happen.

You could do this.

I think he's requested it before and it hasn't happened for several years i think when i first met him several years ago he's like yeah i really like october 17th like he's always made it clear like he really likes that day and

brandy it's not some magical incantation that you're powerless over like greg doesn't have to find a special magical stone to wish upon it's just a convention you could say okay

that's a little weird but let's celebrate your birthday in october like you like and i'll go along with it and you tell your you know your family and your friends that you're doing this and insofar as they go along with it it'll happen it'll happen Judge Hodgman, are you suggesting that Brandy believes that birthdays change through a Sylvester and the Magic Pebble process?

Oh, we like that book.

That's a good book.

Oh, oh, my goodness.

Yeah,

you don't have to have a magic pebble.

You don't have to have a magic pebble.

And if you do have one, don't wish yourself into a rock.

No.

Bad plan.

Okay, we do have small children that we don't lie to that we tell the truth about, especially about the truth about major holidays or fictional characters and why would we lie about when dad's birthday is but it doesn't have to be a lie you understand it could simply be yeah well your dad actual birthday is in august but um he's a little he's a little sensitive to heat rash so we celebrate it in october I mean, if I were you, what I would be arguing, and I don't want to make the case for you, is that you are, if you were to do that, then you are,

you would argue a slippery slope argument that like all of a sudden your your kids how old are they again did you say they're four and they're one now right i mean that one-year-old's just gonna go

but the four-year-old is gonna be like well okay then my

then my birthday is every day he is he's starting to act like that so in august 8th like he could see on the calendar his dad's birthday and he came to me he's like when are we what are we gonna do for dad's birthday like well we're we're doing nothing dad doesn't want to celebrate his birthday today he was very confused he was like well where's a card where's a gift where's a cake and i was like um he wants to celebrate it later.

Um, but now, like, he, now that he's getting this notion they want to celebrate later, he says all of his toys have birthdays like every week.

He has a birthday next week.

He thinks his birthday is next week, and it's July.

So, it's confusing.

So, your older son's birthday is in July, and your younger son's birthday is when?

September.

September.

Greg, have you talked to other people in your life about this desire of yours, this plan?

Family, friends?

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Before I was married and met Brandy when most of my birthday celebrations, I guess, happened with family, I would say the same thing to my parents, who, just like Brandy, were very polite, but just ignored my requests and continued to celebrate my birthday in August.

I mean, it's a special day for them, too.

I mean,

presuming that your parents love you,

they have a fond memory of a particular day in August when you came into their lives.

Have they expressed any sadness about abandoning that day to your whim?

No, in fact, this year they somehow got wind of

the change and they actually sent me a card.

They got wind of your whim?

Well, they got wind that I was being a little more insistent than I have in the past to just put off the celebrations.

And I actually got a card from them just a week ago wishing me a happy October 17th birthday.

So they're coming around.

Oh, yeah.

It's been years working on them, but they're finally coming around.

How many years?

Oh, I'd say it probably started in my mid-20s, so almost two decades.

Whoa, this has gone on a long time.

When did you, you mentioned that you and Brandy have known each other for, what, five or six years?

We've been married eight years.

Oh, excuse me.

I misunderstood.

So how long into the relationship was it before you revealed that you had a secret birthday all your own?

I don't know.

When did I first tell you?

I think you mentioned something we were dating.

You're kind of like, I like October 17th.

That's kind of like my day.

And I'm like, all right, whatever.

And

Greg, do you remember the day that you settled on October 17th?

I don't remember the day that I did settle on October 17th.

You have to think back, Craig.

I need you to think back to where you were in your 20s.

What were you doing?

You say you're mid-20s.

What was going on?

Paint a picture for me.

Were you in Salt Lake or thereabouts?

Yeah, it's probably just sweating on a hot August afternoon.

It's August 8th again.

You've been through July.

August is just dragging on.

You can't sleep at night because it's too hot and you're just miserable.

Miserable.

And then all these people want to surround you with candles

and sing at you,

blowing their hot breath in your face.

Oh,

look,

no one can say that you can't paint a word picture.

of happy little trees.

Let me tell you what.

But I'm asking you to sincerely tell me facts.

Where were you in the world?

What were you doing in your mid-20s?

Let's just start there.

Trying to get back to this memory that you have obviously suppressed of the day you thought of October 17th as your new birthday.

Oh, where was I when it probably started?

Probably still in college.

Okay.

And probably dreading going back.

to school, which would start in just a couple of weeks.

And just maybe wanting to delay things a little bit.

Where were you living?

Where were you living?

Oh, this would have been Salt Lake.

In salt lake yeah and where were you going to college the university of utah and that summer uh what would you do during the summers during college were you working a job yeah yeah i had had several jobs i don't remember which job this would have been i did a stint at a computer company for a little while i worked at the library at the university of utah for a little while um also

what department

interlibrary loans

was that interlibrary loanly work

There are about four of us, I think, in

the department, not including my boss.

There were

four of us students.

Yeah, and it was a nice, peaceful job.

You'd get your list of books, wander throughout the library and grab them.

A lot of time to mull.

Oh, yeah.

So there you are, mulling in the library.

Let's put it there.

Does that feel about right?

Yeah, that could be.

It's got to be a reason that you pick this particular day.

Oh, it's just because October's so great.

Yeah, but this isn't, it's not just some day in October.

It's a specific day in October.

So if you want the truth.

Yes!

Yes, that's what we want.

What?

I would choose September 22nd as my fake birthday.

If it hadn't been chosen for you by whom?

We really wanted our children.

By my cruel parents who chose that birthday on August 8th.

So I would choose September 22nd because...

It is the birthday of both Bilbo Baggins and Frodo Baggins.

And one of my greatest disappointments in life was when our second child was born, but not because he was born, because he was born on September 20th.

And we had the chance to have him be born on September 22nd.

But that doctor who did not work the Wednesday

and said, no, I cannot deliver him on a Wednesday, said we had to do it on a Monday instead.

Should we just change our second child's birthday?

I just need to point out.

that I'm getting a message across the wire here.

September 22nd is also producer Jennifer Marmer's mom's birthday.

That's a good day.

It's a good day.

Why didn't you want September?

When did you read The Lord of the Rings?

Why didn't you settle on this years ago when you were wandering around the stacks during interlibrary lunch?

Well, I've, yeah, first read Lord of the Rings probably at age 10 and then probably reread it every year since then until about mid-30s.

So it may have had some influence in moving the birthday after August and towards the fall, but it's just not far enough in the fall.

You get too many days in September where it's just too hot.

I see.

So, you

again, September 22nd had great personal meaning for you,

but

a little too stuffy.

Oh, yeah.

A little too warm.

Yeah, I see.

Interesting.

Judge Hodgman, I'm changing my birthday.

I just decided.

What are you going to change it to?

December 25th, because it's the birthday of

my greatest hero,

Ricky Henderson.

I'll allow it.

I mean, I'll allow almost anything.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Let him know Jesse and John sent you.

What I really want to get down to, Brandy, is

you hear me talking to Greg, Brandy.

Yeah.

You hear me trying to pull out memory and significance of this particular day.

And he keeps saying, like, I don't remember.

I think it just comes down to heat.

Yeah.

You know him better than I do.

Do you believe him when he says it just comes down to heat?

Or is there something else going on, do you think?

No,

he's honest.

Like we're really honest people.

And he's honest.

And I've tried to figure out October 10th or it was October 17th myself.

I like trace back.

I'm like, what day did we meet?

Because we met like the end of September or anything.

I try to trace back to

something significant and like me or something else.

And nope, he just really likes

October.

And he likes October 17th.

And I guess he, but he did settle on it before he met me.

I swear he mentioned it when we were dating that you're like, that's like the perfect day.

I think we would have gotten married on October 17th, but my mom wasn't available.

So we had to push it back a week.

You were going to get married on October 17th, but you pushed it back.

That was going to be your anniversary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think we would have, again, like my mom was not available and, you know, moms have to be at your weddings.

So.

Oh, of course.

And Greg, did, I mean, was, was this, did you try to be married on October 17th because of your

inexplicable, but obviously sincere love for that day?

I definitely wanted an October wedding.

I feel very lucky that I was able to convince Brandy to get married in October.

It was kind of a rushed wedding

because we did not have a lot of time to plan because it was in October.

But yeah.

Right, because you insisted that it be an October.

I know.

You know, there's an October every year.

You could have waited until the next one.

And have you ever tried to plan an October birthday for yourself, Greg?

Do you know what?

I have not.

But the reason is because it always gets celebrated in August, whether I like it or not.

Greg, what's an example of a time you objected to a celebration of your birthday, but your objections were overruled?

So two years ago, well, this happens every year is the problem.

So it gets close to my birthday.

Brandy wants to plan something, and the conversation kind of goes like this.

What are we going to do for your birthday?

And we're not very confrontational.

And so I don't want to just tell her, outright, we're not celebrating my birthday.

So I'd say, well, I'd rather just wait.

And a couple of days might go by and she'll bring it up again.

And I'll say, oh, let's, let's just, like, what if we just wait?

And by the time it gets to my birthday, she's bought the cake.

She's contacted friends.

They're coming over.

And it's going to happen whether I like it or not.

Greg, it's been 15 or 20 years since you decided you wanted to change your birthday.

Why haven't you actually told anyone you were changing your birthday?

Why have you only implied and suggested and gently cajoled?

That's a good question.

Why have I not done that?

It's not confrontational, Jesse.

I don't know.

I guess I thought I'd get too much pushback.

People wouldn't want to celebrate it on the 17th and say no, you're not.

What kind of pushback, do you imagine?

No?

People just saying no or ridicule?

Oh, no, I can't.

If somebody said no to me, that'd be devastating.

Whoa.

Even if they said, no, I don't think so.

I mean, Brandy is saying no to you every year since you've met her about this birthday thing.

Yeah, but I'm used to that.

She said, no, when I asked her to marry me.

Oh,

interesting.

I don't think that's entirely true, but that's a different podcast.

I think it would fall to me if we changed the birthday.

That means I would be, I mean, that's usually how birthdays kind of go anyways.

It's your loved ones that are celebrating it for you.

It's not like you calling your friends and like, here's my invitation to my party.

That's kind of like when you're doing your kid.

So it would fall to me to arrange it.

And I'd be calling people and be like, hey, we're having a cake for Greg's birthday this weekend.

They'll be like, well, isn't it in August?

And I'd be like, yes.

And we have a ruling from Judge John Hodgman that we have to celebrate in October.

Just kidding.

But yeah, I just see it falling on me.

And I understand why he, like, you know, you can't really self-promote your birthday.

I feel like that kind of changes as you get older.

not until you're 111

yeah

wait is that whole yeah

yeah greg knows what i'm talking about yes he does greg knows what i'm talking about

do you think that greg is a little is as conflict averse as he seems to present himself that he's just afraid people will just say no to his dream i he's definitely when he's non-confrontational he really is but he's also he knows what he wants and he that's why he keeps telling me like especially since last last August, I'm like, oh, your brother will be here August 10th.

Let's just save your birthday for August 10th.

And that's why he's like, no, we don't, I don't want to celebrate my birthday in August at all with any people whatsoever.

And there's one of my arguments.

Yeah.

People change their birthdays all the time and celebrate them on different dates.

Tell me, give me some examples.

Oh, yeah.

Your birthday's on a, you know, Wednesday or a Monday.

No one wants to celebrate on a Monday or Wednesday, so you push it to the weekend.

I see.

You're just pushing it several weekends.

Yeah.

You sent in a photo.

Who sent sent this in?

Greg, you sent in a photo as evidence

of three women standing in a beautiful, in front of a beautiful twilight, it looks like, in

a gorgeous European city.

What's going on in this photo?

And I mean, really, paint me the word picture of this.

This is a Thomas Kincaid style, beautiful twilight here, and these nice people.

What's going on?

Yeah, so why am I looking at it?

So Brandy's argued a lot for me celebrating my birthday on my birthday, yet our youngest child, who turned one this past past year

on September 20th, Brandy happened to be in Amsterdam when he turned one.

And that's a picture of Brandy and two of my sisters enjoying the wonderful fall-like weather in Amsterdam instead of celebrating our one-year-old's birthday.

It's a gorgeous rendition of maternal betrayal.

Brandy skipping.

your younger son's birthday.

Is that what you're trying to present in evidence here?

Exactly.

Betrayal?

That birthdays don't matter to Brandon.

If the date's so important, then why was she out of the country?

Well, it looks like you're having a wonderful time.

Brandy, did you have a good time in Amsterdam with Greg's sisters?

Yes, I had a wonderful time.

Between three adults getting our schedules together, we picked a week, and after we picked it, Greg goes, you know you're going to be gone for our kids' first birthday.

And I said, Yeah, we'll just celebrate it the weekend before, which is what we did.

We had a great time.

The kid was very happy.

I'm sure you didn't know one way or the other.

And obviously,

Greg, your sisters don't care about your youngest son's birthday either.

It does seem to suggest that birthdays, I mean, I appreciate that this is Greg's extremely subtle, one might even say, passively aggressive way of making this point.

that you acknowledge that birthdays are changeable.

I would say they're changeable to the nearest weekend.

And, Greg, you mentioned Exhibit B before, but this is a birthday card from your parents for your October birthday celebration.

This is what the caption here says.

A birthday card from my, Greg's parents, for my October birthday celebration.

It's a Darth Vader card that says, the force is strong with you, Dad.

And Darth Vader is using the force to extinguish a bunch of floating birthday candles.

I presume after everyone has already sung happy birthday to him, he's making his wish now.

And but you again,

I'm curious about this term October birthday celebration because you didn't have one, did you?

Not yet.

Right.

Well, it's today.

And maybe we'll do something tonight, depending on the ruling.

Look, I know you're in Salt Lake City, so you're two hours behind me, but it's the afternoon.

You don't have anything planned?

We can throw some together quick.

Judge Hodgman, what if someone said no?

It's true.

Why don't you just wait it out?

If you wait it out, no one will say no.

Hey, we're always planning stuff last minute anyway.

Craig, tell me more about what steps you would take to make this change logistically.

If I were to order in your favor,

what would you do in order to make the 17th of October your birthday?

Well, I think the first thing would be to just plan a celebration.

And yeah, I'd tell extended family, maybe we'd have a bigger party than usual, invite

brothers and sisters, and

just plan it out and make it happen.

How would you inform your extended family?

Over signal.

We got a nice group chat over there.

How do you anticipate their response?

Oh, they'll probably just ignore it.

I don't know how many people are in your family.

Maybe it'll be a half a dozen to a dozen just no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, there's probably going to be some confusion.

And I do have,

let's see, five sisters and two brothers.

So it is kind of a large family.

And no, I think some of them might enjoy it.

There's not a lot going on in October on the 17th.

So we'll make it fun.

But it's a week before your anniversary.

Don't you think it might overshadow your anniversary?

We don't really do much for our anniversary.

Yeah.

Doesn't sound like you do much for anything.

We often go out of town on our anniversary.

Like a lot of our anniversaries have been like on trips, and we're going to go on a trip this weekend.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

Are you taking your kids or do you have help to look after them?

We're going to take them this year.

Yeah.

We normally take them, but I'm like, I see in a future where we leave them behind with good care.

Yeah, and we have good friends who their anniversary is just a few days after ours and we sometimes do stuff with them too.

Good tradition.

Yeah.

All right.

If I were to rule in your favor, Greg, today would be your birthday.

Yes.

The day that we celebrate my birthday.

The day that you celebrate your birthday.

You also request a birthday certificate signed by the judge.

That's me designating October 17th as his official, unofficial birthday.

Yes.

That is is the requested ruling.

If I were to rule in your favor, this would be it.

What are you going to do for your birthday if I were to rule in your favor?

What are your plans?

Sell me on this.

We'll go out, we'll get a cake.

I'll ask Brandy to get me the gift I ask for every year, which I might also note she also ignores, which is every year I only ask, she asked me what I want for my birthday.

I only ask for a bag of licorice.

And how many bags of licorice have I received?

At least one.

That's one more than I remember.

Why don't you get him the bag of licorice?

I get him a bag of licorice every week.

All he wants is licorice?

What kind of licorice?

Do you like

the salty licorice?

You ever have that salty licorice from Europe?

Yeah, I have not.

Not my thing.

I do enjoy the black licorice.

Preferably, I guess it's the American brand, black licorice.

But really, yeah, any of those Australian kinds will do.

And really any licorice will do, except for maybe those gross, fruity flavors.

Brandy says you're honest people, and yet you're playing a game with me, Greg.

You're saying that Brandy has never gotten you a bag of licorice for your birthday.

Then she says she has at least once.

I don't remember.

And then she says she gets you bags of licorice all the time.

What's the truth?

Well, okay, I was maybe exaggerating every week, but we do buy plenty of licorice for the house because Greg likes it.

And I know one of the years I did buy a bag of licorice, I wrapped it up, put a bow on it, and went, happy birthday.

Is it true?

That's very nice.

Is it true that Greg asks for a bag of licorice every birthday?

Yes, it's true.

And is it true that you do not give it to him every birthday only once that you can recall?

This is true.

Why don't you give him the bag of licorice that he requests for his birthday?

Because I feel like it's commonplace and I want to get him something special or more different or whatever it is, you know, more unique for his birthday.

And so I should just be respectful of his visitors as well.

You seem to answer your question and anticipate my recommendation.

The answer is you want to get him something special that you choose, right?

Yes.

Let's say yes.

Right.

Okay.

Like red vines.

Yeah.

He likes black lucrative.

I get him red.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

And what did you get him for his birthday this past August?

Well, I went to, with our four-year-old, we picked out a pack of cards and we wrapped up.

I wrapped up a Uno pack of cards.

I know it sounds dumb, but I was was like, oh, we can play this as a family.

And then I gave it to Greg and they unwrapped it without the four-year-old observing it.

And the four-year-old was upset about that.

I wanted to point that out.

So if we'd had formal celebration, the four-year-old could enjoy Greg unwrapping a gift that he helped pick out.

But that has nothing to do with his changing his birthday date.

He just got the present and unwrapped it, didn't care.

Also, what did the four-year-old want to play Pinnock or something?

He's a big fan of Rummy.

I thought that the four-year-old could play.

It's Uno.

To help him with his numbers.

Yeah.

Yeah, but this is a birthday present for Greg.

I mean, it's not like, I mean,

I'm all for throwing birthdays out the window and not making a big deal of them.

But, you know, this isn't, you know, when I,

hang on, I'll make a note to mention this.

Yeah, don't, don't ask what the four-year-old got brandy for her birthday.

Sorry, I will ask.

What did the four-year-old get brandy for her birthday?

Sounds like a riddle.

The four-year-old picked out a Lego X-Wing for Brandy's birthday.

Did you appreciate this?

That was tops on your list, Brandy?

Yeah, I like it a lot.

And every time my four-year-old plays with it, I remind him it's mine.

Okay.

Brandy, if I were to rule in your favor, you would ask me to order that Greg's birthday is in August.

What else?

Just that we celebrate it in August, and he smiles and enjoys it.

Maybe that's pushing it, but just the fact that his birthday is in August,

I want to celebrate in August.

What are you worried is going to happen if I were to rule against you?

That Greg doesn't get a celebration, that it will just get forgotten between October 17th not really being his birthday plus our anniversary next week.

And he gets lost in that.

I'm afraid he won't get a celebration.

And therefore, our kids don't get to celebrate it with him.

Do you think that's possible, Greg?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Why would your Paniwani birthday be forgotten?

Well, you asked if it's possible.

Yes, it's possible.

Is it likely?

No, I think we can definitely celebrate it.

Like today,

we don't do anything really big for birthdays, at least for our birthdays.

And so it'd just be a couple friends over, you know, we can have a cake

and just enjoy some time together.

And it's nothing too big.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my chambers.

I will consider my verdict.

I'll be back in a moment with the outcome.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exit department.

Brandy, how are you feeling about your chances in the case?

At this point, I'm not feeling really good, but I have expressed that this would fall to me to celebrate it.

So I don't know if he would,

I don't know.

I'm feeling it's okay, it's a 10% chance I might win.

That's it.

Wow, pessimistic.

Greg, how do you feel?

I'm really worried about a compromise solution, but if there is a compromise, I hope it will be September 22nd.

Just a real

cut the baby in half situation.

Maybe that was my plan all along.

You cut the baby in half, you end up with two hobbits.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case.

Let's talk about what we've got going on.

What's going on with you?

Well, as you know, Dick Town, the cartoon I co-created with David Reese, is on Hulu right now, if you haven't had a chance to check it out.

It would make me very happy if you did.

It's for adults.

It's got some swear words in it, but it's got a lot of heart and it's very enjoyable, I think.

But I also have something to announce that is exciting.

Please mark your calendars, December 17th.

Make your way, if you can, to Montague, Massachusetts, specifically the village of Turner's Falls, to the Shea Theater, where I, your judge John Hodgman, will be joining Monte Belmonte for a little friendly holiday spectacular.

Yep, I'm going back to the Shea Theater.

We did this in 2019 and we had a heck of a time.

We sang some songs.

We told some stories.

We had some fun and wassailed together in anticipation of the winter holidays.

We're doing it again this December 17th at the Shea Theater in Turner's Falls.

Will I be joined by guests?

Yes.

Are they surprise guests?

No, I'm telling you now.

Guess who's coming?

Jonathan Colton.

That's right.

My friend and your friend.

And also your friend and guest bailiff, Gene Gray.

We're all going to road trip up to Turner's Falls to go to the Shea Theater.

We're doing it as a benefit for the theater because it's a wonderful community theater that needs a lot of community support.

And I would love for the Judge John Hodgman community to come out and support us.

Perry von Vicious, amateur, well, actually semi-pro wrestler, if you're listening, I met you at the Shea a long time ago.

I enjoy following you on social media.

Come on out, Perry von Vicious, and let me know if you're coming.

Direct message me on Twitter because I'd love to connect with you.

I really enjoy your wrestling style.

So if you're interested and you have December 17th free, go to shaytheater.org.

That's S-H-E-A,

T-H-E-A-T-E-R.org, or just Google Shea, S-H-E-A, Theater, Turner's Falls, and you'll find a link to a website.

there where you can get tickets.

See you then.

Jesse, what have you got going on?

If anybody's in Southern California on Saturday Saturday the 29th, Oracio, the Put This On Shop guy and I are doing an in-person Put This On Sale at the South Pasadena Vintage Flea.

So head down to South Pasadena Vintage in South Pasadena, California, the afternoon of Saturday, October 29th.

Come say hi to us and buy something for the holidays or for yourself or

for a birthday, whenever that birthday may fall.

Or for any semi-pro wrestlers you might know.

Great news, Colt Cabana.

You're getting gifts in the mail from people that come to South Pasadena Vintage.

And of course, you can go to putthisonshop.com if you don't live in Southern California.

We've got all kinds of treasures there waiting.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Greg.

Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday, dear

Greg.

Sorry, Brandy, but today's Greg's birthday

from now on, with certain conditions.

Don't celebrate yet.

Don't dig deep into that bag of licorice yet, Greg.

Because you got some stuff to learn about birthdays, Greg.

I don't know why you want to change your birthday.

It seems to me like you don't don't either.

I mean, maybe it is just about heat.

I don't know.

You're you.

But I think that it's fine to postpone your birthday.

There's someone in my life who was born right in the middle of the holidays and whose birthday always got ignored and rescheduled it for the middle of the following year and has done so for years and years and years and years.

Who cares?

It's fine.

It's fine.

And for some reason, you have this fixation upon October 17th that even is beyond your fixation with Bilbo and Frodo Baggins' birthdays, which would have been a thing that's like, oh, well, of course, like, that makes sense.

You want to celebrate on their birthdays.

But no, the obsession that I can't pin down with October 17th, and which we refuse to pin down other than talking about humidity, is with October 17th.

And I think that it is reasonable that the people in your life, including Brandy,

take it seriously that you want to do this.

But you also have to take it seriously, Greg.

If you want to make this change,

I don't want to crush your dreams into ashes.

If you want to make this change in your life,

you can't be passive.

You have to be active.

You can't be afraid of people saying no.

You have to say to them, Brandy, older son, younger son, mom, dad, siblings, everyone on the group chat, I would like to celebrate my birthday on October 17th.

And here's how we're going to do it.

Because what do hobbits do on their birthday, Greg?

This is how I knew I was going to find in your favor.

Greg, what do hobbits do on their birthday?

They give presents to everybody else.

They give presents to everybody else.

If you had only ever seen the movies and had not read the book, it might not have become clear that the Hobbit tradition is that the person who is having the birthday gives the party and gives presents to the people they love in order to express their love and thanks for them being in their lives.

I think it's a really wonderful tradition.

And indeed, if you are going to celebrate a hobbity birthday, you have to throw yourself a party, Greg, and throw a party for everybody else.

Now, does that mean you have to get presents for everybody else?

Not necessarily.

But you do have to acknowledge that you are asking a big thing and a somewhat atypical thing of everyone around you who loves you.

And you have to throw yourself the party and show your appreciation to them.

for going along with this weird scheme.

People's birthdays mean different things.

Now,

I wanted to rule that you actually have to celebrate your birthday

on the 22nd to keep in line with the Lord of the Rings theme, but I think that's too close to your younger son's birthday.

For whatever reason, October 17th is the number.

You have to honor it.

And you have to honor yourself.

And more importantly, you have to honor your wishes.

Don't just say,

let's just put it off.

Like when Brandy's like, what are we going to do for your birthday?

I don't want to talk about it.

Let's just put it off.

Let's just, nah, I don't want to do this.

Nah, I don't want to do that.

It's, first of all, already unfair if you want to have a birthday that you're counting on Brandy to curate it for you in August.

It's doubly unfair if you want the world.

and time and the universe to change and resituate your birthday in October without you putting in not only the effort of throwing the party, but also the acknowledgement of your own self and your own desires that you might not really feel comfortable with enough to send it out into the group chat but that's what you have to do if this thing's going to work and there have to be there have to be presents

i'm going to say i think you should give brandy a present every year for your birthday for sure in the hobbit style whatever she might choose to give to you you should give one to her as perpetual thanks for indulging this atypical desire, but one that is worth honoring.

It's fine.

It's fine.

Something nice to give to her.

And don't give her a pack of Uno cards or an X-Wing or something that your children can enjoy.

And Brandy, I'm throwing a little stuff at you here, too, because, you know, birthday presents don't have to be expensive and they don't have to be glamorous, but they do have to be for the person you're giving it to.

Like throwing a pack of Uno cards because the kids will like it at Greg doesn't really show Greg that he's loved or thought of so much.

It's like,

you know, you're talking about your kid giving you an X-Wing fighter.

Like when my dad turned 40 and I was in my teens, which I don't, I don't like to think about that math at all, but I was in my teens.

My gift to my dad was an Infocom adventure game for our Macintosh computer.

I'm like, you might enjoy this.

It's got,

it's an adventure game, but you can use more than two words for each command.

It was like, go upstairs.

And I didn't.

I opened up that thing and I played the witness for the rest of the night with my friend Damon.

The gift wasn't for my dad.

The gift was for me.

You got to give presents for the people that you're giving presents to in your life, not for yourself.

What I learned from Lord of the Rings was that birthdays, as embarrassing as they can be, as an indulgent as they can be, as particularly as you get older, as sort of unpleasant as they can be, you know, you have to honor them in some way.

You have to choose how you want to honor this milestone.

And

one really good way I think is rather than accept gifts and attention is to show generosity to other people.

So you want to have this October 17th birthday?

You should have been planning weeks ago for what you are going to do tonight.

Invite your best friends and go bowling.

I don't know, get Brandy and the kids together and go to a movie or make a big pot of vegetarian chili or carnivore chili or whatever you eat.

I don't know why I said chili.

I was thinking about chili this morning.

It has nothing to do with you.

I'm sorry, Brandy and Greg.

I just really want some chili.

It's a great stew.

It's a really great stew.

I'm really hungry for chili.

So is it too late to celebrate tonight?

I'm going to say yes, Greg.

I'm going to say you don't have time to plan for your birthday tonight, especially since you already got a pack of Uno cards back in August.

Sorry, I'm being a little cruel here because I want you to take this seriously.

You're asking other people to take it seriously.

I want you to take it seriously as well.

Tonight you can celebrate this ruling and I'll give you this certificate, I guess.

Next August, when your technical birthday rolls around, if Brandy wants to give you a bag of licorice, and by the way, give a person a bag of licorice if they ask for it.

Or a box of licorice if you're buying the good stuff panda from the natural food.

Or the good boxed licorice.

Brandy wants to throw you a box of licorice on your actual birthday.

That's fine.

But meanwhile, you'll be planning for October 17th, 2023, Gregsmas.

Greg's birthday observed.

And it doesn't have to be huge, it doesn't have to be expensive, but you're going to get Brandy a really nice present and you're going to have a party that you plan and organize yourself to show your friends and your family that you care about them.

And then a week or two after that, you and Brandy are going to go on vacation for your anniversary and it's going to be terrific.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules: that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom

brandy how do you feel i i feel like i feel like i lost him one at the same time

but i should also point out that wasn't brought up but greg's always so generous to me already on my birthday and i was trying to be special towards him so i think this is a really great rolling for me to recognize that i can listen to greg and get him his licorice on his birthday and let him throw a party on his own special day, October 17th.

You always try and be generous to him on his birthday, might defy his wishes.

Yeah.

I promise you, I like him.

I really do.

I want to treat him right.

Greg, how are you feeling?

Oh, I'm feeling great.

This is the best thing that's ever happened to me since I was born.

Greg, how do you feel about the fact that Brandy thinks this is both a win and a loss and thus is a compromise?

Oh, I'm just glad she's going to get me a bag of licorice.

Greg, Brandy, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

That was a great case.

You know, there's precedent for changing your birthday, Judge Hodgman.

Is there?

Yeah.

The original birthday change is the Christ child.

No historical evidence that he was actually born on December 25th.

I think a lot of historical biblical scholars think that they changed his birthday to December 25th

because early Christians wanted it to coincide with Ricky Henderson's birthday.

I thought it was to goose the Roman economy.

Yeah.

Either way, they wanted it to be on a Monday so people could have a three-day weekend.

Before we dispense Swift Justice, we want to thank Twitter user at Benjamin R for naming this week's episode.

You know who that is?

That's Ben Harrison from Greatest Track.

Birthdayus Corpus.

So complicated.

If you want to name a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities.

It doesn't just apply to Max Fun hosts, but like, I don't know, Hal Lublin.

Let's see what you got.

Like, bring the heat, Hal.

How come you're never one of these?

J.

Keith Van Stratton and Helen Hong, what are you doing?

Ben Harrison got one in there.

Yeah, Dan McCoy was a runner-up last time.

Let's hear it.

Yeah.

This is basically all Dan McCoy's Twitter feed is

Half-hearted puns.

While you're on Twitter, you can follow us at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

You can hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman related tweets, hashtag JJ Ho.

And you can chat about this episode on Reddit at maximumfun.reddit.com.

Evidence and photos from our show are on our Instagram account, which is at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

You can follow us there if you are an Instagram user.

You can also find them on our website at maximumfund.org.

This episode recorded by Rowan Stigner at Audio Inn in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor is Valerie Moffat.

Here's Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

Twitter user at

Cephascornelis

asks,

Cephascornelis?

Which way do you put your mugs and glasses in the cabinet, rim side up or down?

Is it different for stemware versus mugs versus drinking glasses?

I always put it rimside up because you know what?

Put them in the cupboard, get them out, you pour your cup of coffee.

You're not going to have any dust settling in there.

And the glasses, we keep them on a shelf and we go through them fast enough that there's never any dust settling in there.

And I don't want to chip the rims by putting them down.

You know what I wish I had, though, Jesse?

What's that?

You know what they have in those fern bars where they have the wine glasses that hang upside down?

Oh, yeah.

But yeah, you asked me a question, Cephas Cornelis.

I put my mugs and glasses rimside up, and I do that because I think it's right.

So I'm the judge.

So there you go.

Hey, thank you for sending in all of your suggestions for lighter-than-air-powered vehicle-themed songs.

I've gotten many, many cool songs that I am listening to, but of course, I am not going to judge which is the best in the universe.

You are.

We're going to get a voting bracket together until we have two songs going head to head.

Will Emperor of the Clouds be the best lighter-than-airship vehicle-themed song, as one of our listeners contends?

Or will it get beaten by one of the many contenders that you suggested?

Keep your ears peeled.

We'll let you know how to vote on that poll as soon as I know how to set it up.

In the meantime, we need your disputes.

What kind of disputes are we looking for, Jesse?

All kinds?

I think yes.

Big, small, we judge them all.

Go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO and submit them to us.

And you know what?

How about put out a few tendrils?

I say, get on your favorite group chat and say, who has a problem with me?

Wow.

With a link to maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

Wow.

Stretch a little.

You know they got beef.

Who has a problem with me?

I don't even have to ask that question.

I'll get your letters anyway.

So why don't you see what it feels like to be me for a a moment and write a letter, write a note to your group chat?

Who has a problem with me?

What did I do wrong this time?

Yeah.

Then you, but you have to include the link, maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

Maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

That's where you submit your disputes, which we need to make this show run.

That's where you submit your comments to me.

I get them in my inbox.

That's where you submit your lighter-than-air vehicle-themed songs.

If you think that I've already heard the one that you're going to suggest, send it in anyway.

I'm loving it.

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H.O.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFun.org.

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