Big Gondola Guy

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bale of Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week to clear the docket.

And with me is a man with a vehicle with no doors, Judge John Hodgman.

What vehicle are you thinking of?

Don't you have one of those Jeeps where the doors come off?

I have one of those Jeeps.

It has doors on it sometimes.

That's true.

Okay.

Sometimes no doors, sometimes no roof.

Always a windshield.

Though you can take that off of the Jeep.

Yeah, if it's a hassle, if you're tired of not being buffeted.

Yeah, you know how you're driving along.

I just wish I had some bugs in my eyes.

Yeah.

Well, I know I got you those motoring goggles for Christmas and you've been itching to use them.

That's true.

I have been itching to use them.

Yes, this is our long-promised docket about transportation, planes, trains, automobiles.

Actually, no trains.

Well, a funicular is a kind of train.

And also, boats.

I long said, Jesse Thorne, I would not do this episode until we had at least one funicular case and one gondola case.

And guess what?

We've got two of both.

Thank goodness.

And not only that, we have a very special guest.

The last time we talked about vehicles, we had this guest on.

And you know what?

We should have him on every other episode.

We don't need to wait for these vehicles because he's a delight.

His name is River Butcher, friend of this court.

River Butcher, of course, is comedian, actor.

You've seen him on Freeform's Good Trouble, which is coming back for a new season, right, this summer, right, River?

That's right.

Are you on the list?

This is River Butcher.

Yeah, they do it in like a two-part season.

So I believe that the second half of the fourth season is what's coming back.

Yeah, that was, see, that was what was the problem with TV.

It was too easy.

It's too easy.

It's too easy.

Make it hard.

Yeah, make it a puzzle.

Make it a challenge.

I don't want to know when things are happening.

I want them them to just present themselves every now and then.

Yeah, I don't want to turn on TV and see what you're showing.

Make it a side quest for me.

Maybe I have to figure something out.

Maybe I have to catch it in a store window and then be reminded, like, oh, I should watch this thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Like

Dick Town, our TV show Dick Town, actually it premiered in a side quest in a reboot of Mist.

It was very easy to explain to people how to find it.

Also, sorry.

No, that's okay.

I don't know enough about Mist to make a joke I was going to get into it, but I know I don't know enough because I was thinking about the movie The Mist when you see Mist.

That's where my brain went.

Let me tell you something, River Butcher, about The Mist?

Yes.

It was based on a Stephen King novella.

Read the novella.

Okay.

All right, I will.

Side note about The Mist, the film starring Thomas Chain,

featuring in

a tracking shot is the rocket

ride that is here in the Maximum Fun

offices.

I've taken many pictures.

Okay, you're saying that the famous old-timey

3D ride shaped as a rocket in Max Fun HQ is featured in Frank Darabont's movie The Mist.

That's right.

In the background, because they go past a grocery store and it's sitting out front of the grocery store, I would say it is a form of transportation, imaginary transportation.

Oh, thank you for bringing us back.

I'll bring it back.

This is why I'm the transportation specialist analyst.

But let me stray off topic just for one more moment.

I mean, the topic being transportation.

That's right.

Oh, no, this is on topic.

Another mode of transportation is walking.

We hate that mode of transportation in America.

I will say that.

It's true.

But another form of transportation

is running.

Oof.

And if you are capable of doing either of those things, may I advise you to run, don't walk

to YouTube.

Wow.

And

check out River Butcher's new comedy special, A Different Kind of Dude, on Comedy Central's YouTube channel.

Wow.

Run, walk, or however you propel yourself, metaphorically or literally.

Your honor, that was incredible.

Thank you.

River Butcher, one of the funniest comics I know, and the only one who's a former professional skateboarder.

That's right.

Thank you, Jesse.

Another form of transportation is a segue.

Shall we move on?

Wow.

To our first dispute.

I believe we're starting with cars.

Yeah, we asked everyone for disputes about cars initially then we broadened it to every vehicle we have a case here from marion she says my partner brendan has a lot of rules about what makes a good parking spot i do about 80 of the driving but brendan feels his role is that of navigator and that parking is more of a duet less of a solo

Some of his rules for parking lots include not being too close to the store and other cars where you're more likely to get dinged but also

not being too far away from other cars okay

i would like to choose where we park without any comments from brendan brendan is trying to find the sweet spot in the parking lot but marion's driving river that's right what's your take on this what do you think

my first impression is that i have to fully admit that i brought this case uh to my partner last night and was like wow i I used to be like this.

And she just laughed silently.

And so I realized, wow, I am Brendan.

So I'm seeing my own humanity reflected back at me through this case.

Well, representation matters.

That's right.

That's right.

I am Brendan.

Brendan is me.

I do think that, look, my first response to it's a duet, not a solo, was, okay, come on.

But then at the same time, it's like, I live in Los Angeles.

Often, I need help finding a parking spot because like it's high pressure and stuff like that.

So I do think teamwork when driving is appreciated, but it's teamwork.

It's not, I have rules and you, the driver, need to follow them.

Right.

Because I think that I am a person who would offer what I thought was helpful advice, but what I've realized after is not welcome.

It doesn't make the person feel good.

You know, like backseat driving in the front seat is not, it's not fun.

It's not fun.

Any kind of driving that is not in the driver's seat.

That's right.

That's right.

Unless the driver says is obviously complicated.

Can you keep your eyes out for a spot for me?

You know, like, then, you know what?

You're just riding.

That is fully your job.

You're not the co-pilot.

You're not the navigator.

You're not.

You notice that.

Especially about we have GPS.

Like, come on.

Right.

One thing I noticed about airplanes when I've been on them.

What is the deal with airplanes, Judge John?

What is the deal with these airplanes?

Apparently, they have food on them now.

Why?

Does the food need to get someplace?

What are we, delivering food?

The wind has to travel further over the wing and that lifts it into the air?

Since when do Biscoff Cookies go on vacation?

Biscoff Cookies featured in in-flight snacks of Delta Airline.

Delta.

Still not giving me any money.

But what I've noticed is

when the cockpit is open at the end of the flight, and the pilot and co-pilot are in there just having their celebratory scotch or whatever they do.

I noticed the co-pilot seat has a steering wheel in it.

Indeed, all of the instruments are replicated because a co-pilot is a very specific job to pick up the slack when the pilot has an aneurysm or whatever.

Yeah.

Now, I'm not saying that that's not,

we shouldn't necessarily have those in cars, but we don't.

So

we only have them in driver's ed cars.

And unless you want to, like, Brendan, you really got, and also anyone including myself who finds themselves doing this kind of behavior you got to really look at the fact that you are acting as though you are a driver's ed instructor when you do that like it it makes the other person feel as though they are incapable of the job they are currently doing and nobody likes that you know unless that's your thing

that's not very romantic unless that's your thing yeah unless you're into that and you could be into it you could be into

driving shamed is your kink that could be your thing it could be i'm sure it's out there but it doesn't sound like that's her thing let me ask you a question so obviously and this goes to settled law if you're driving the car you're driving the car you get to pick the music you certainly can entertain other people's suggestions for music but you have a job which is to keep everyone alive and that's right you have a choice of what your distractions are

for that reason and as well similarly you are responsible for bringing that car to a safe landing or parking in this case.

That said,

Brendan's rules.

Do you have an opinion on where to park in a parking lot?

I mean, if you're the one driving?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question, Judge John Hodgman.

I feel like I don't disagree with his

ideas.

You know,

I just don't.

I've gotten to a place now personally where I can't have rules because it makes my life very difficult because you find yourself going somewhere where you cannot meet either of those rules.

And then that, for me at least, creates anxiety that I have to leave or something like that.

Or like it's not.

Not too close, not too far.

And then if you live in Los Angeles, your only choice is to leave a four-paragraph Yelp review about that parking lot that completely leaves out the actual business that the parking lot services.

That's right.

And I used to be very, like, very concerned about my car getting dinged and all those things.

And, you know, it just isn't that important to me anymore.

Like, cars get dinked.

That's just what happens.

That's what they're there for.

I would much rather

preserve, not ding my relationship

than have somebody ding my door.

Like, I had that happen recently and I parked where I want, you know, it's like, and I had this second thought when I parked in the parking spot.

I was like, I don't know about this spot.

Like, I had an intuition.

And then I came out and somebody had banged, like,

I had to take the car to go get fixed.

It was so banged up.

But I was just like, oh, well, okay.

You know, because like it's a car.

You know, I just try and remember there's a thousand dollar deductible on my love.

Right.

And a 250 deductible on my car.

So it's let's there you go.

Let's,

what comparison can we make, you know?

But I understand his desire to prevent that.

I get that.

It's also maybe he should drive.

Yeah, drive more than 20% of the time.

Drive more than 20% of the time.

Then you can put your, put your ideas into action.

Here's something from Rachel.

When driving downhill in Northern California, my husband Jeremy shifts down in our automatic car to quote, save the brakes, end quote.

But he doesn't apply the actual brakes when we are picking up speed.

It's scary to me.

In my googling, I found articles noting that down shift braking is not a replacement for the brake pedal, as it doesn't allow you to come to to a complete stop.

Please order that Jeremy either one, learn how to properly shift down when going downhill by taking a class, or two,

not shift down and just use regular brakes.

You guys, this is a great time for me to jump in and let you know that I'm offering a downshifting class.

Thank goodness

code, dude.

You get 10% off of my downshift class available via Zoom.

I'd take it.

I'd take it because it'd be a chance to hang out and drive around.

Can I tell you what?

I took a downshifting class relatively recently.

As some Judge John Hodgman listeners know, I recently bought a tiny Japanese van from Japan.

And this tiny Japanese van had a manual transmission, which I had not driven.

So

I took a couple of manual driving classes.

You had never, you didn't know how to drive one?

I didn't know.

I mean, I didn't even learn to drive.

I'm from San Francisco.

I didn't even learn to drive until I was 20.

I'm just clarifying.

I was not being like, you didn't know how to drive.

You've never seen the Godfather?

No, yeah.

What the?

I had never driven manual, so I took a couple of manual driving classes, which was pretty straightforward.

It wasn't too tough to learn how to drive manual.

But one thing that I remain terrible at is slowing the car by downshifting rather than just putting it into neutral and using the brake.

So let's explain for, I'm sure, a lot of listeners who who don't know what downshift braking is.

River, do you want to explain it?

I mean, I have only like a basic, you know, like just working knowledge of what it is, which is just simply that, you know, a manual transmission car has a clutch, a brake, and gas.

And the clutch you press to shift in and out of gears.

And so instead of

using the brake like you would in an automatic transmission car, which then senses that you're braking and puts the car in neutral, puts the engine in neutral, I should say,

you are sort of doing that, except instead of going into neutral, you're going into a lower gear, which then, you know, creates like compression in the engine and is sort of like, if you ever hear that sound or see the signs on a freeway of like,

like a semi-truck making that sound, that's actually engine braking.

Like they have this implemented in their engine that instead of using brakes, it slows the engine itself down, which is better for the brakes, but it's like more efficient braking in that you're not causing friction with the pads and the shoes and stuff.

You are saving the brakes.

Rachel's husband, Jeremy, is not wrong.

So

you talked about there's some compression in the engine.

I don't know.

There's some kind of magic in the engine.

The Jeep that I have that has no doors sometimes

is a manual transmission.

I learned how to do it on this thing.

Well, actually, my friend Anna Henchman taught me how to do it on her manual transmission Jetta when we were in college.

And she was like once you learn how to do it all you can think about is people wearing their brake pads out

why would you ever touch the brake because something something mechanically magic occurs when you're driving say in fourth gear uh and then you drop the car down into third gear the car slows the engine slows you've not touched the brake you can't go it's like self-regulating you can't go faster yeah you just are the engine is doing the work for you as opposed to you forcing the stop you And you get into that beautiful third gear, the most flexible gear, my favorite gear.

The most flexible gear.

It really is.

My favorite young adult novel.

My most flexible gear.

My most flexible gear.

And the benefits are, there are other benefits too to downshift braking, which are not only are you preserving your brake pads.

and the life of your brakes, which is important, particularly if you're going down a lot of hills, if you're living in a hilly environment, You know, those big trucks, the

tractor trailers and stuff, they're super heavy.

If they ride their brakes all the way downhills, Dunski.

Yeah.

They're getting new brakes every week.

Right, exactly.

Yeah.

And even your car, it will wear down.

It'll cause extra wear and tear to your brakes.

But also,

even if you're not going downhill,

you can brake by in a manual transmission car, you can break by going into neutral and then just applying the brake but what if something jumps out in front of you like a deer or whatever yeah or you need to maneuver around something really fast then you got to shove it back into gear and hit the accelerator in order to do that so you miss a step and so your reaction time goes down and similarly and pursuant to rachel's thing if you're engine braking if you downshift braking even on a flat on a straightaway or going down a hill and you need to stop fast because rachel's absolutely right you can't come to a full stop just engine braking.

No, it's going to be a very long time that it's going to take you to come to a full stop.

Oh, yeah, because

you can't drop from

fourth gear to second gear.

No.

Because your RPMs will spike and that's bad for your car.

Super bad for your engine, which I would say is worse than brakes.

Yeah.

But if you are downshift braking appropriately and then you need to come to a sudden stop and you hit the brake, you're going to stop faster than if you were just in neutral coasting and then you hit the brake.

And what Rachel is also saying is true, which is that it's scary.

When you do it the first time, you feel like

the engine makes a noise.

You can feel the car doing stuff.

It is a little bit scary, but the engine, if you're not spiking the RPMs and doing it appropriately, even though the engine will go,

are you sure?

That's just the engine whining because the engine can take it.

It's fine for the engine to do that.

But it's so out of the scope of normal driving at this point in 2022, you know, that

people are not exposed to

even the way a manual transmission car feels as you're driving in it.

Right.

So I can see, I fully, as a person who like loves driving manual transmission, misses it every day.

I am personally fully on her side.

It's similar to the parking situation where

it's like, it's almost the opposite.

Like as the driver, like you were saying, John, you are in, it's everyone's safety is

to me, this is the same as if you were driving like a wild, like you were just, you know, not you blowing stop signs and stuff.

Like if your passenger was like, I don't feel safe when you do that, then I would just not do it when she's in the car.

I do it when it's just me, you know?

Having mastery of this fairly esoteric technique of driving feels really good,

but it's not a reason to be like, oh,

no, I know what I'm doing, friend.

You know, that's

your job is still to keep everyone alive.

And one of the ways that you can reduce distraction to yourself is if your passengers are not screaming.

That's right.

That's right.

And I would also add, here's the thing, John, to just fold back to the thing.

This is not a manual transmission car.

He does not need to be doing this.

Yeah, so

I hope.

that this automatic transmission car is one of those that has those little paddles in the steering wheel or has electronic gear gear shifting, which you can do.

Like a lot of

particularly European automatic cars do have a mode where you can control the gears yourself all the way through.

If you don't have that kind of car, you shouldn't really be doing this.

You can get away with it.

I gathered doing some research, like if you have a regular automatic where it's just like a park reverse neutral drive, and then they might have a low gear option.

Two and three, yeah.

Yeah, you can sort of get away with it that way, but it's not really built for for

that.

Is that really a manual transmission trick?

It really is.

And like, to me, I feel like I, you know, I drove manual transmission for

19 years or something like that.

You know, I drove a manual transmission for a long, long time, and now I have an automatic.

And it has that, it has like S plus and down.

And I don't even mess around with that because I'm just like, I don't trust.

Like, I knew what was up with my manual transmission.

I don't want to mess with an automatic transmission

engine in this way.

Well, you know, manual transmission, you are physically changing the gears.

That's right.

You're in control of the engine 100%.

With that S plus or the L or whatever for an automatic, it's a computer doing it for you.

And to me, it doesn't.

I don't trust a robot.

I don't trust a robot for that.

I have bad news for Rachel.

What's that?

If she makes Jeremy take a class.

about down shifting 100% it's going to be a race car class and he's just going to start driving like his car is a race car.

No, because 100%.

The regular car class is not going to teach this.

The advanced car class is about race car driving and he's going to want to drive his car like a race car.

That is, those are the two levels of class.

Look, he can take whatever class he wants, but he doesn't need to take a, doesn't need to take a race car.

It's not going to happen because we are taking Jeremy to school right now.

Jeremy, you're doing it wrong.

How do I know?

Because according to Rachel, you don't apply the brakes when you are picking up speed.

Do you know what's supposed to be happening when you're braking?

You're slowing down, or at least maintaining a steady pace.

If you're picking up speed, you're not braking.

And if you're going downhill and picking up speed, I don't care what gear you're in.

That's incorrect.

Yeah, you're not doing the thing you claim to do, which is slow down.

If you're speeding up, I hate to break it to you.

Pun intended.

You're not slowing down.

Exactly.

When I drive that Jeep, when I drive that Jeep and I'm going to the Tradewinds to get that really sweet parking space in the Tradewinds parking lot that I love so much that always gets taken, but every now and then I get up.

That's a different story.

and i got to go down that hill to the fall river bridge

what i do at the top of that hill is i pop it into neutral i drop it down a gear and i just go

down the hill while gently tapping the brake to maintain whatever speed i'm at

you know because you're not supposed to be speeding up and you should be tapping that brake You should be ready to tap that brake, assisting what the town shift braking is doing.

You should tap it from time to time, not merely to prepare for a sudden stop if you need to make one, because it happens, and to maintain control and also to keep Rachel from screaming, but also one thing that does not happen when you're downshift braking, your brake lights behind you don't go on.

That's right.

So, if there's someone behind you and you drop into

fourth gear or third gear, a second gear, if you downshift to slow down and they don't see those lights, they don't know you're slowing down, and all of a sudden you could be rear-ended.

Yes, great point, John.

Another forgotten point of the engine braking: no brake lights, which is very important in deep traffic.

Hey, you know, just add it to your curriculum at River Butcher's Stop School.

The code dude at checkout, you get 10% off of my River Butcher's Stopping classes.

Stopping and going.

Well, guys, speaking of breaks, we're going to take a quick break

to hear from this week's partners.

It's a little something called a segue, John.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfund.org slash join.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

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Yeah, I'm talking about entree bowls, but you know what?

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week.

Here's a case from Giles.

My brother and I are gondoliers in San Diego.

Ring a bell.

I'm so excited.

Congratulations.

Ding, dang, dong.

It's like when someone orders the special drink at the bar.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Go ahead, gondoliers.

I'm listening.

I have been rowing for five years.

He's rowed for a little over a year.

My brother thinks that when two gondolas approach each other from opposite directions, they should pass on the right, just like on an American road.

This is in accordance with U.S.

boating rules.

I think they should pass on the left, UK style, in accordance with Venetian tradition and boat design, especially in close quarters.

U.S.

boating rules can apply when a gondola must pass other boats.

But in head-on gondola-on-gondola action, please order my bro to pass on the left in the traditional or to or manner that Venice intended.

River Butcher, you know all about gondolas, right?

Oh, yeah.

Big gondola guy over here.

Have you ever been to Venice, Italy, famous for its gondolas?

I have not.

I haven't even been to Venice, Las Vegas, Nevada.

They got to have gondolas there.

I want to get it.

They do.

Indoors.

River did get his t-shirt in Venice, California, though.

That's right.

And your name is River, for heaven's sake.

Yeah, I mean, I got to get on this.

But that's a canal.

Therefore, your canal,

which is man-made.

Rivers are not man-made.

Artificial river.

Even this one, not man-made.

In any case,

gondolas, I didn't know what this Giles was talking about.

I guess there, first of all, I had to get my head around the fact.

I guess there's a lot of gondola tours in San Diego.

San Diego have canals.

Yeah, I took a gondola tour of a submarine there.

I asked.

I'm down there.

All right, moving on.

Close quarters in here.

Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk.

Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk.

I asked Giles for some more information, and you know, he sent a whole deck.

He sent a series of slides.

We'll be a whole character Bible for this gondola.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know if you can see this thing, but this is a real slideshow with some beautiful photos.

of gondoliers.

And one thing I did, I have been to Venice, and it's a place that I love a lot.

I've never been in a gondola, but I like Venice.

And one thing I didn't know about gondolas is that they're shorter on one side than the other.

So all gondolas are 35 foot, six inches long.

However, the port side is 10 inches longer than the starboard side.

The left side is longer.

Giles says the purpose of this oddity is that the design is thought to counterbalance the rowing action of the gondolier.

So the boat is moved in a straight line.

You see, what happens is the gondolier stands aft and to the right and rows with one oar in a stern sculling motion.

And that pushes the boat in one, it doesn't go straight forward, it drifts to its left.

And because one side is shorter than the other, aqua dynamically somehow, that sort of course corrects the boat partially.

I don't understand how it works, but it's.

You guys are such funny creatures, right?

Yeah, exactly.

But you have a drift port to the left.

You drift to the left when you're piloting one of these gondolas.

And that means if you're in a Venetian canal and you've got a gondola coming at you, you want to pass it on your right.

In other words, you want to pass it starboard to starboard, your right.

As though you're driving down a UK road, a British road, you drive on the left-hand side.

You keep to the left.

And the other gondola comes by to the right because you're drifting away from each other rather than towards each other.

Because you're both drifting to your respective lefts.

Whereas it is true in U.S.

navigation rules, if two boats of the same class are approaching each other head to head, they pass each other keeping to the right in the same way you would on a U.S.

road.

I think also when piloting a gondola, rowing a gondola, according to the pictures that I was just looking at of gondolas in Venice,

That one long oar on the starboard, the right-hand side, does extend pretty far out to starboard.

It doesn't just go straight back.

And I would imagine for that reason,

it's probably a lot easier to be oar to oar than it is boat to boat to make enough room in a relatively narrow space.

And I'm going to clarify before, and everyone, because

I'm reviewing the slides.

The oar is on the starboard side, but the gondolier, the gondolier stands on the port side.

So he's standing all the way to the left, but this oar goes all the way to the right across the boat.

You'll all understand it when you look at this incredible deck sent in by Giles.

Everyone's getting a copy.

Yeah, look under your seat.

There's already a copy there for you.

Just to be clear, what investment is Giles looking for from the sharks?

To not eat any more oars.

Yeah, that's right.

You also have incredible photos of, I guess, this is Giles and his brother, the two gondolier brothers of San Diego, which is the rather more obscure opera

by Mozart.

In any case, I love all of this, but

yeah, no way, Giles.

Do the U.S.

rules.

Sorry.

Yeah, the reason is obvious.

It's obvious why you do the U.S.

rules.

Unless they're the only two boats on the canal,

they're going to crash into every boat they meet.

You can't unilaterally declare that you're going to drive on the wrong side of the road.

This reminds me of a previous case that did not have to do with gondolas, but had to do with flashing your lights and what that communicated to other drivers and someone being very stubborn about the fact that they that flashing the lights meant don't go when almost everybody else thinks it means go ahead.

Yeah, because that's regional.

I mean, it's regional.

It's fully regional.

I think specifically to that guy's block.

But other than that, you know, but like I get this makes a little more sense to want to push for this because it's a physical, you know, it has to do with the dimensions of the boat and how it operates.

So like, I hear that, but I think you guys are right that like you're in American waters, so get with it.

Fly a flag on your boat.

Yeah, to be fair to Giles, Giles is only calling for passing on the right when it's or to oar when it's two gondolas.

Well, as king of the gondoliers, he has the right to.

Is it basically that he just wants his brother to submit to him?

Yeah.

I'm like, how many more gondolas are there in San Diego?

Probably more than I think.

But, you know, I feel like they're doing this together at the same time, and it's really just a brother-to-brother thing.

Even if Judge Hodgman approved this situation, there would have to be a gondoliers meeting with 100% attendance to communicate this information.

You've got to have quorum on this, and when are you going to get it?

Because gondoliers are all over the place.

This is going to have to be a unanimous consent situation.

That's right.

Giles has made an incredible case.

I think he's absolutely right.

Certainly, I understand why the tradition exists in Venice because it's a bit, it actually has to do with engineering of the boats and a main mode of transportation there.

And I understand that he's only suggesting that this happened when two gondolas approach each other in San Diego Bay or whatever.

And I get it, but I just think consistency of rules of the road-you don't want someone looking at these two gondolas passing each other one way and learning, oh, I guess it doesn't matter which way I pass.

You know, you just be consistent out there.

And by the way, hey, that's what I say.

It doesn't matter which way I pass as long as I pass.

A different kind of dude is available on the Comedy Central channel at YouTube.

And sign up for my class.

Also includes passing.

Anyway, back to you, John.

But Giles, for you, for you and only you, I will rule.

If it's you and your brother playing chicken on gondolas, then pass each other the Venetian way.

Because you are right.

But I think that it is best to follow the rules of San Diego Harbor.

I also think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't look from the photos of San Diego gondoling.

We're talking about some pretty small canals here.

There's a lot of room.

There's maneuvering room to get around each other.

Giles is going to accidentally run into that one aircraft carrier that you can have a party on.

They're shooting Top Gun 3, and he's gondoliering through it.

Oh, Sole Mio, I'm so happy about that gondola dispute.

Do we have another one by any chance?

Do we have two gondolas passing in this segment?

Here's a case from Greg.

My wife and I went to Europe in 2016 and visited Venice.

She wanted to ride the gondolas.

I did not.

They felt like a cliché in a tourist trap.

And I'm notoriously cheap.

Still, I decided to go along with her.

till we got to the dock.

It was going to cost 150 euros to ride the gondola.

I balked.

We ended up not riding.

This was a mistake.

Now, whenever there's something that I think we shouldn't do, my wife reminds me of the time we flew across the world to not ride gondolas.

We're hoping to return to Europe someday, and my wife wants to go back to Venice.

I think we should maximize new experiences.

Judge Hodgman, should we ride a gondola even if it means we have to cut a different city out of our agenda?

Hmm.

Hmm.

River, do you have a take on this?

Oh my God, I so have a take on this.

Oh, really?

Good.

Go to Venice, put your wife on the gondola, pay whatever it costs, and go do it and have a good time.

Who cares?

Life is so short.

Make your wife happy for once.

Not only is life so short, the lifespan of Venice is getting shorter every minute.

That's right.

The lifespan of water on this planet is getting short.

What it's steel.

I do have one question, though.

How much is 150 euros in American dollars?

I have no idea.

It's kind of

in the one-to-one-ish range.

Are you kidding me?

Yeah.

You flew to Venice and you wouldn't spend 150 bucks?

Yeah.

You are notoriously cheap.

Let's just say, let's say, for the sake of argument, it was 200 bucks.

Yeah.

In Venice, that's a San Pellegrino.

Cut out a little bubbly water and get on the the damn gondola.

Look, I've been to Venice.

We went to Venice in 2018.

Never thought we would ever go there, but we had an opportunity to stay in someone's apartment there for free.

So we said yes.

Saw those gondolas.

I'm like, that looks like a ridiculous tourist trap.

And we didn't do it.

And I had no regrets because the city of Venice is absolutely mind-blowing, but it's very small.

We saw all of it within a week.

And when we left, I thought, I will never go back there again because why?

There are other places to go.

Venice is a very special, short-lived place.

I'm glad I went there.

I got on other kinds of boats, but I didn't ride a gondola and I felt nothing.

And then, as soon as we landed back home, I was like, I got to get back to Venice.

That is definitely a place you want to visit twice, whether you go on a gondola or not.

Remember, Butcher, have you ever wanted to live in a Miyazaki movie?

Can I admit something?

I've never seen any

anime films at all.

No problem.

You have that.

They look beautiful from where I've seen.

They're waiting for you when you want.

That's great.

Jesse Thornton, have you ever wanted to live in a Miyazaki movie?

Great.

Go to Venice.

I'll just answer for you.

Go.

I already booked my tickets on the cat bus.

I can't tell you.

We did.

And so we went back.

We went back in February of 2020.

Wow.

And as we flew away, Italy shut down behind us.

Wow.

We got a text on the plane.

It sounds like doors closing.

Yeah,

we could hear it all shutting down.

It's a really special place, and

it is a tourist trap, but it's one of those wonderful tourist traps where it's hiding a real place right beneath the surface.

And there are really cool people there.

And there's a really cool radio station that I listen to every night from Venice.

Radio Cafoscri.

It's the college radio station of University Cafoscri.

I love it.

I can't wait to go back.

I'll never get in that gondola, but

God or whatever.

Damn it, Greg.

That's me.

If your wife wants to get in that that gondola, get in that gondola.

There will be nothing like it.

I guarantee you,

the gondolas in San Diego, as great as Giles and his brother are, it's not the same thing.

I also just like, I also just want to say I do understand this idea of maximizing new experiences.

And I don't know how much money this, you know, but you're, you're capable of traveling.

So I'm going to say that you, you, you can afford these things, you know?

I would just offer that perhaps maximizing new experiences, a new experience could be doing something you don't want to do for somebody else.

That can be a huge, and just going like, oh, maybe this could be fun, actually, you know, because I wanted to throw out there, like, what would it be like for your wife to not have to say that to you ever again?

But at the same, but it's, it's bigger than that.

For me, it's bigger than that when you go, you know what?

I don't want to do this, but this person really wants, because I've been her, you know, I've been on both sides sides of this equation.

And when you actually go, you know what?

You're right.

Let's go do it.

And like the, that experience is also a new experience.

It's not just going to the places.

And I think, John, you brought up a great point of like.

It's also a new experience to go to a place you've only been once and be like, what is it like when we go again?

You know, like

that's also fun, you know, like anything can be fun.

When you have a certain familiarity and you have your places that you like to go to, it is a different experience.

I I was making the argument that like Venice, like most places in the world, but like Venice is one of those places where

it's so rich

that you kind of need to sample it twice.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I do.

And it's still a new experience.

But I like your definition of a new experience.

It's like try going to Venice and not being a Killjoy.

That might be different.

That's right.

That's right.

Let's take a quick break and hear about another wonderful show provided to your ears by maximumfun.org.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week.

Here's something from Caitlin in Vancouver.

My husband Alex and I used to live in Paris, specifically in the 18th Orond di Seim,

famous for its hills and the beautiful church at the summit, the Sacre Cour.

One way you can visit this church is to take the Montmartre funicular, a one-minute and thirty-second ride.

While living there, Alex refused to take the funicular, saying it was too expensive.

Recently, we went back to visit with our two children, and despite the stroller we had in tow and their tiny legs, he still refused.

I would like you to rule that the next time we are in Paris, we take the funicular instead of the stairs.

Note, it costs one metro ticket.

Billet de metro.

One metro.

Now, River, I looked it up.

Yes.

One metro ticket currently,

as of this recording, costs 1.9 euros.

So $200.

Again, I mean, I'm going to go back to my old, you know, the Venice thing.

It's like, come on.

Sometimes, look,

you're already there.

You know what I mean?

Like, the money,

spend the money.

Make your partner happy, you know?

Like, your kids are going to have a good time.

Like, at least do it once.

And also, like, yeah, you're carrying a bunch of stuff.

They're tired.

Get on there.

Look, I know this is the exact same case, but I love the fact that funiculars and gondolas are swappable in these cases.

Yeah, totally swappable.

Apparently, like, they're fungible tokens in this case.

That's right.

Yes, they've plunged into the depths of.

And I just don't get now a funicular, in case people don't know, is an incline railroad that goes up a hill.

So, you know, if you ever saw the Grand Budapest Hotel,

there's a little faky model funicular that he filmed.

Or if you watch the HBO Max series Perry Mason,

there's a funicular that plays almost, I would say, is its own character.

Really?

It's, it's, well, because it's set in L.A.

in the third, it's pre-it's pre-World War II.

And so, yeah,

and it still exists.

It's right by the Central Market or the downtown market.

The Angels Flight.

Yeah, that's right.

Angels Flight.

There's the famous 4th Street Elevator in Dubuque, Iowa.

There's the Johnstown Inclined Plane in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

There are three or four or 500 funiculars in Pittsburgh.

They're wonderful.

I've gone on multiple subway trips.

Just to take my children on that 90-second funicular ride.

Yeah.

I will, look, I should have said this during the Venice one, but I'm glad it's coming up now so that I can say it now and it's retroactive.

Well, that's the thing about funiculars.

They give you another chance.

They do get, thank you, John.

Thank you, Judge.

I think about this often.

Now, the context of this quote that I'm going to give you is not what I'm saying.

However, I use this as a mantra anyways.

Anytime that I start feeling, because I find myself in the position of this husband, each husband, often, it is often my first thought.

Don't spend the money.

You don't have the money.

Be cheap.

Be tight.

Just walk.

And so every time that comes up for me, I think of the quote from Don Draper, that's what the money's for.

Every time.

That is literally what the money is for.

Perfect role model, Don Draper.

Don Draper gets me through all my scrapes.

I look to him

and his great decision making his great decision making overall through the course of the life that we experienced of his.

I think of that all the time.

That's what it's, that is what it's for.

I do too.

I think of that all the time in the same context.

Like, that's what it's for.

Is it too expensive?

That's what money's for.

That's what the money is for.

You know what we're talking about here?

$16.

Yeah,

it's not that much money.

You guys live in Paris.

That's round trip.

Maybe they roller skate down, in which case it's $8 on the way up.

Well, we got to know how old these kids are.

That's true.

Well, if there's a stroller, I mean, here's the thing.

I actually understand where Alex is coming from because

if you are a couple living living in Paris expats living romantically in Paris with no children

I can see not taking that funicular you're you're you're you're able to climb those stairs you live there you don't want to do what all the visitors do just taking that funicular you want to look down on them and go

in that French style that's how you act French wee wee wee

but when you transition into a new part of your life and you're visiting the place and you and you you don't have every day to go there

You don't have all the time in the world.

You have children.

Every moment they're reminding you that you're dying.

That's their whole emotional point.

And those children are in strollers.

Then

accept that you're in a new phase of your life.

You're in the funicular phase, Alex.

They have tiny legs.

They have tiny legs.

Caitlin.

Shoot us your Venmo.

We're going to give you 16 bucks.

We're going to pop you on the funicular.

I'm going to buy you a free couple funicular rides.

Then Alex will have no excuse.

Or then see what excuse Alex comes up with.

Because I bet Alex might say, it's like, it's not actually the money.

It's just I'm still a young man.

I don't want to admit that I'm in the funicular phase of my life.

It probably is something deeper than the money.

It's always, I mean, it's always something deeper than the money.

I think that was part of the message of that scene.

Yeah,

I think that's what the message was.

I think the message was a little bit that it's not what exactly.

It's not the money.

I want you to tell me how great I am.

Exactly.

When I worked in downtown San Francisco at the Trust for Public Land, I worked right near the famous Powell Street cable car turnaround,

the one where the tourists line up to get on the cable car.

Love it.

And I had a coworker who lived down the line from that terminus.

He lived maybe.

a mile up that cable car line and he took the cable car to work and that was the greatest thing ever, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah.

I mean, he knew to get on at the next stop, not wait in line at the turnaround.

The next stop, you can just get on.

You don't have to wait.

And you don't have to wait for a door to open because there are none.

Yeah.

You grab any part of it and hang on, and you're on the cable car.

Exactly.

But I mean, like a funicular, the reason that it is so exciting to ride on a cable car is that they're really neat.

So why not ride one every day?

It's fun.

It's cool.

And how cool to give your kids that experience of something that,

you know, here's the crazy thing about kids, John, similar to what you were saying, typically they outlive you.

And so they might live in a world where they won't ever get to see those again.

You know, like you have no idea what's in store for them.

Like, so how cool?

I just keep thinking about like putting little kids on that thing and how much fun they would have.

And it's like similar to putting your wife on the gondola and her having the experience that she wants.

Like you get to watch them have a good time.

And minimally, give your wife a break, you know?

In San Francisco, there is a famous streetcar.

These days, they run these old streetcars on up and down Market Street in San Francisco, the sort of big street in downtown.

But when I was a kid, there was like a...

you know, there was like the equivalent of a model railroading club for streetcars.

And they would run these old preserved and restored streetcars on the J Church line

once a year or twice a year for special days.

And there is one of these streetcars.

It's an Italian streetcar that is open in the shape of a boat.

And my mom and I on those special Sundays when they were running those streetcars on the Jay Church line would walk up to Church Street and wait as the old streetcars passed until the boat streetcar came.

And we would ride the boat streetcar just down to one end of Church Street and then ride it back.

And that is one of the most treasured memories of my childhood.

And you ruined that for your children.

It doesn't seem that there are any funiculars, strangely enough, in San Francisco now, but there definitely were some, including the Fillmore Counterbalance.

Oh.

Yeah.

The Fillmore Counterbalance.

I love that Prague Rock Band.

One of my favorite Prague rock bands of all time.

Ran from 1895 to 1941.

Oh, I thought you meant the Prague rock band.

Yeah.

It was one of the earliest Prague rocks tarpsichords and stuff.

Fronted by Scott Joplin.

Yeah, it was the only barbershop quartet Prague rock band.

There's definitely barbershop quartet Prague rock bands, John.

We've welded into existence now.

Hey, Jesse, do we have another funicular case?

Yeah, here's something from John.

My wife, Joe, and I spent a lovely week in Germany and rode the funicular railway to the top of the...

Wow.

Now

I think we're both stumped on this one.

Merkurbergbahn.

Merkurbergbahn.

The mountain outside Baden-Baden.

I think Merkurbergbahn in Baden-Baden has a wonderful poetry.

I will spend some time repeating the phrase when any of my family mention Germany, which, as my son is learning German and we are choosing where to vacation, comes up more often than you would think.

Joe finds my glee around the phrase Merkurberg bahn in Baden Baden irritating.

I would like the judge to rule that I may repeat Merkurberg Bahn in Baden Baden with impunity, as it brings me so much pleasure.

So look,

I think we know how we're going to.

This is obviously funicular adjacent at best, but it does mention funicular.

And funiculars offer you a second chance.

I think we're going to rule consistently, we've ruled so far, like if you have a spouse who takes pleasure in a thing, don't deny them that pleasure if it causes you no harm or only costs 150 euros or whatever it is.

But there are some times when a spouse repeating something over and over again can become distracting.

So before we rule, I did write to John and I said, just so that we can have the evidence, can you say Merkerberg Bang and Baden Baden into your voice memos two or three times?

And then I said, Actually, do it seven times.

So I think we have that tape.

Jennifer Marmer, can you play that for us?

Hello, Judge John Hodgman.

This is the magical musical phrase: Merkelberg Bahn in Baden-Baden, Merkelberg Bahn in Baden-Baden, Merkelberg Bahn in Baden-Baden, Merkelberg Bahn in Baden-Baden, Merkelberg Bahn in Baden-Baden, Merkelberg Bahn in Baden-Baden, Merkelberg Bahn in Baden Baden.

Merkelberg Barn in Baden Baden.

Okay, that's seven.

Have you guys ever heard of mockingbirds?

They often

infest Bougainville, which I have all around my house.

And at certain times of night, if you find yourself surrounded by a male mockingbird who's looking for a mate, it will make a sound not unlike what we just heard

until about two in the morning.

You know what it reminded me of?

Well, at first I thought of the Dave Frischberg song Van Lingle Mungo, which is just him singing the names of baseball players.

It's a beautiful song, actually.

Beautiful jazz song.

But then I thought this is more like one of those like early Steve Reich tape compositions, like different trains or something like that, where they're composing music out of the...

But

I would just say that like, while I enjoy that i enjoy it when i have signed up for it that's right i it feels as though you know i want to have respect for his name is john yes yes for john's newfound mantra like fully fully respect that you know get that but the thing about a mantra is that sometimes and most of the time it's just for you and so while i i feel like it would be in line for me to say oh he gets to do whatever he wants which ultimately he does you know like laws are just made up anyway yeah and we have no enforcement mechanism mechanism to this body.

None whatsoever.

You know, not even the actual government.

But anyway, I do think that once your joy is beginning to irritate, because this is similar to the downshifting.

That guy's downshifting because it brings him joy, but it's scaring the passenger.

So like this repetition of phrase is bringing you joy, but it's at the cost of someone else's, you know, comfort and peace.

And so maybe that's got to be an interior mantra from time to time.

Yeah, if my spouse was just standing quietly in the corner going, Markenbergbagen, Baden Baden, Merkenbergbannen Baden Baden, I would be

scared.

Exactly.

I would be a little scared.

Yeah.

John, I love it.

I want you to say it all the time, but try to do it like in the shower.

Yeah.

When you're alone.

Mumble it to yourself on a long walk.

Don't become a mockingbird in the Bougainville.

That's right.

A bougainvillea is a kind of plant, right?

It is.

It's very invasive.

It's that very fuchsia

sort of bush.

What am I trying to find?

Thank you.

It's very thorny, which I didn't learn until I was living with one.

It's quite beautiful, but it is everywhere in Los Angeles.

And I prefer the jacaranda myself.

Yeah.

I read that the best bougainville come from Merckenbergbahn.

The Merckenbergbong Bougainville.

And I hear if you take a gondola to view it, it's much better.

Merckenbergbahn Buggenvia.

Merckenbergbong Buggenvia.

I gave you a new one, John.

That's it.

I hope that we can do this again sometime and

get.

What are the vehicles we're missing?

We had a plane one,

and that's a good one.

I'm holding it in reserve for you, River, when you come to it.

Okay, great.

Hold on to that one.

I would love to have some sort of like RV or travel bus-based case.

That would be a fantastic one.

Let's hear a case about cooking on the green tortoise, the hippie bus.

Let's do this.

That would be incredible.

I rode that with my mom one time.

It was great.

You on on the green tortoise?

Yeah.

Wow.

Nice.

Speaking of buses, I think there are probably some real tour bus disputes.

Oh, yeah, I bet.

That people have got out there.

Tour bus disputes.

Tour bus disputes.

We didn't touch buses.

Motorcycles.

We haven't had any motorcycles on here.

Yep, we've not had motorcycles.

Side cars.

Side cars, yes.

I'd love to hear a dispute between rockers and mods.

Bring your Lambretta disputes to us.

Yeah, let's just put out the call now.

More vehicular disputes so we can get River Butcher back here for another round of vehicular court.

But until then,

ride whatever you need, whatever form of transportation you can take.

Get it over to YouTube.

Check out a different kind of dude on Comedy Central YouTube.

What do you got a website or something, River?

Yeah, I got a website.

It's riverbutcher.com.

Spelled like you would think.

My name's just two words now that you're pretty familiar with, so I don't think I have to spell that out anymore.

Yeah, riverbutcher.com.

Take the express train to that website and find out

where River's going to be.

And check out

Good Trouble on Freeform now.

You know what?

How about this?

You got Internet.

You got YouTube.

Go to that Comedy Central channel and watch a different kind of dude because it's hilarious, because River's hilarious.

Thank you.

It's right there waiting for you.

You don't have to do anything.

Just

like Richard Marks.

You have a phone in your pocket.

Yeah, it's the Richard Marks of comedy specials.

It's known universally.

It's the Richard Marks of Comedy.

Pretty cool.

And what about your social medias?

Where do we check you out on the social media?

That's all RivButcher at Riv Butcher on Twitter and Instagram because you'd be shocked to find out that in 2021, someone had already taken River Butcher on all platforms.

So a lot of people call me Riv now, which is cute.

I don't mind it, but I only did that that because I had to.

At Riv Butcher on Instagram.

At Riv Butcher on Instagram and Twitter.

I have a TikTok that I never use, but I use it occasionally.

I think it's called A River Runs With It.

That's cool.

That's good.

Yeah.

I don't have TikTok, so I can't figure it out.

It's too much for me.

You know, Judge Hodgman, I'm sitting in a room with River.

Yeah.

River has a tattoo of a dirigible.

I do.

We did not talk about any lighter-than-air craft.

And for someone who likes Akron as much as you do.

Yeah, I really do.

I learned something new, John, and it was from TikTok about why they're literally called blimps.

Do you know why?

I do not.

I wish I could remember it word for word.

There's a great TikTok.

I will try to remember to send it to you.

But it's basically from there were two types of dirigibles when they were invented.

Right.

And I think the first one, it's like A linear and B limp.

Like B

point limp, and that's what stuck around.

It's the way that they had.

There were two classes of dirigibles, A and B, and one

that had a frame or something like that.

Yeah, a Zeppelin or something.

Yes, that it was already

a circle.

Because a blimp is a frameless dirigible.

That's right.

I literally spent my life in a place that is simply defined by having a blimp, and I never even considered where the, and I love the etymology of words.

I had never even considered looking that one up.

I'm just like, it's a blimp.

That's it.

It's just a a blimp.

Akron, Ohio, Rubber City, blimp capital of the United States.

Capital of the world.

Capital World.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's get it.

Get some dirigible cases to us so we can make River Butcher happy.

I would love that.

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our guest has been River Butcher, our producer, Jennifer Marmer, our editor, Valerie Moffat.

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