My Legal Pony (RERUN)
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Transcript
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
This week, we are revisiting one of our all-time classic episodes, My Legal Pony.
And by classic, we don't mean that it's in black and white or that it's something that you need to research for a classic podcast class in college.
We just mean it's one of the greatest episodes of all time.
It was recorded back in 2014.
It's a dispute between Becky and Nancy.
Becky said her friend Nancy's Shetland ponies were ill-mannered, but Nancy disagreed and said they were perfect just as they are.
If you haven't heard this one, you must listen.
And if you have heard it, you know you're going to enjoy it.
Yeah, not only that, we are going to have some updates on what happened after the case.
So keep it locked and let's get into it.
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.
I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
This week, My Legal Legal Pony.
Nancy brings the case against her good friend Becky.
Nancy keeps a herd of Shetland ponies as pets and thinks they're perfect just as they are.
Becky calls the ponies ill-mannered.
Who's right, who's wrong?
Only one man can decide.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.
Tete de Cheval, are you ready to order?
I am, but I have one question about something on the menu.
What is spicy ponyhead?
This is a ponyhead,
but spicy.
Imagine a pony without the body.
I know what a pony is.
I just...
Spicy, it's a make your mouth on fire.
No, I know what spicy is, too.
It's just that when I see a pack animal on the menu of a restaurant.
It's a lot of food, huh?
We also have a demean ponyhead.
This is one half ponyhead.
No, I don't want a demis ponyhead.
I don't want any ponyhead.
I try not to eat things that I would ride at the fair.
Oh, so you would not eat a monkey?
I wouldn't ride a monkey.
Okay, touche.
Look, you know what?
Just bring me a flank steak, medium rare, side salad, blue cheese.
Spicy ponyhead, flank steak, salad, blue cheese.
Wait, what did you just say?
Uh,
cheese.
No, before that.
Bleu.
No.
You said spicy ponyhead.
Are all of your steaks spicy ponyhead, mate?
It's not all of the steaks.
It depends on what the fisherman's brings.
Oh, it's a seafood.
Like a pony fish or a seahorse.
Ah, pony is not a seahorse.
The pony is a big,
beautiful baby with long, silky tail.
Chop off the head.
Spice.
Pony.
As you see in a field or in a cave making love to your wife.
Okay.
Look, I don't have a lot of time.
Maybe I'll just swear a man.
Please rise and raise your right hands.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?
We never.
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he doesn't ride ponies and, in fact, rides only enormous double-sized horses?
We do.
We do.
Very well, Judge Hodgman.
Nancy and Becky may be seated.
For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors,
can you name the piece of culture that Jesse and I performed as I entered the courtroom.
Becky?
It sounded like the godfather meets the pink panther.
Not correct.
You're not just supposed to create an analogy.
You're supposed to give it an elevator pitch.
But you know what?
I like it.
I like it because you were thinking of the Clouseau French accent plus
waking up with a horse head in your sheets.
Like the godfather.
Exactly.
Right.
Okay.
There you go.
I see what you're saying.
You're wrong.
Nancy.
I don't know.
I was going to say Pink Panther.
No, you guys.
Casper Hauser, the Casper Hauser Comedy Group, famous sketch, Spicy Ponyhead, as featured on the Casper Hauser Comedy Podcast.
I guess you would say on hiatus now, Jesse.
Yeah, long-term hiatus.
But archives still available at maximumfun.org.
Absolutely.
And not only that, the reason we created the Kasperhauser comedy podcast in the first place, many, many years ago,
was to promote the release of their first book, Sky Mall, Happy Crap You Can Buy from a Plane.
And that book has gone on to become a beloved cult classic, which went out of print and commands triple-digit prices on Amazon.
However, it is about to be re-released in a new edition with expanded materials.
Well, in any case, Spicy Ponyhead is a sketch by the the Kasperhauser comedy group that is traditionally and appropriately performed by its creators, Rob Bedeker and James Richmuth.
And Jesse and I did
our best version of it.
And I truly, Jesse,
I don't think a day passes when I undertake some kind of writing project
where I feel like I wish I could just write Spicy Ponyhead.
Yeah, you know, my mom talks about Spicy Ponyhead all the time.
And I'm pretty good friends with the Kasperhauser guys.
And she refuses to refer to them as anything else but the ponyheads to
such an extent that in my household, my own household with my wife and my own children, I find myself accidentally calling them the ponyheads.
Like, oh, I talked to James Ponyhead the other day.
If they were called the ponyheads.
Look, we already had a discussion, you guys.
listeners to the podcast over what this thing should be called.
And one of the great suggestions that we got from Stephen Lepenta was horse majeure, which I loved because it's a double pun.
It's both force majeure and horse manure, all in one.
And I hate puns, but I like that one.
But Alex Meter suggested My Legal Pony, and Jesse and I had to sit there for a minute and realize My Legal Pony is probably a little bit more accessible.
Just like the ponyheads probably would have had five years of a Comedy Central TV show, whereas Kasper Hauser remained the most brilliant, non-televised sketch comedy group of all time.
Kasper Hauser's big compromise was when they decided to wear normal clothes when they were performing after their first two years at the Edinburgh Fringe, where they wore weird Arlakino outfits.
I know.
They made me wear one of those once, and it was the greatest.
This has been the Kasperhauser portion of the podcast.
Now it's the, what are your names again, Becky and Nancy?
Yes, pay no attention to us.
We're just sitting here waiting.
Oh, I'm so, oh, I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry that I have not been giving close enough attention to your very serious case about whether Shetland ponies may be described as ill-mannered or not.
The case is brought by Nancy.
Nancy, you have a herd of Shetland
ponies.
I guess a herd of Shetland pony would not work.
You need more than one.
And your longtime best friend Becky calls them ill-mannered.
Explain to me what your prob is.
Well, my problem is that she called my Shetland ponies ill-mannered, and I think they're very well-mannered, or at least appropriately mannered for what they need to do.
What do they need to do?
Are you raising them to go down into coal mines like pit ponies?
No, they don't need to do anything.
That's what Shetland ponies were bred for, you know.
Yes.
Go down down into mines.
No, mine don't work.
So what are they bred to do?
Just sit around and look cute?
Yes.
And let me ask you this.
Are they cute or what?
They are cute or what?
Well, how many are very cute?
How many of them do you have?
Well, right now I have 11.
So I'm down.
Holy!
All in one house?
Yes.
I had 14 last year, so I'm down a couple.
They don't live in your house with you, do they?
No, but they graze on my lawn.
Where do you live?
Out in the country, in Pennsylvania.
And so if I go out in the country in Pennsylvania, I say, anyone tell me where the weird pony lady is?
Would they all know?
Yes, yes.
Okay, you have 11.
And
do you live in the country or do you live in a
suburb that you are trying to convince yourself is the country by putting a bunch of ponies on it, much to the annoyance of your neighbors?
No, it's very rural.
We have no zoning and, you know,
it's rural.
You're in Nozone, Pennsylvania, Poniesville.
Yes.
All right, 11.
And do they all have names?
Yes.
Let's go.
Ian, Charles, Fredo, Godiva, Dewdrop, Maddie, Sprite, Connie, Berger, Niles, Frazier,
Russell, Russell Stover.
Russell Stover, like the candy company.
Yes.
Have you been hired by Russell Stover to buzz market candies on my podcast?
Shoot, I can't believe I did that.
You already snuck in
a buzz marketing for Kelsey Grammar.
Yeah, and one for The Godfather 2.
Yes.
I go in themes when I name them.
So themes have been Candies, sitcoms, 70s, crime dramas.
What are the other themes?
I did Survivor one year, and oh, I'm buzz marketing.
I'm sorry.
That's okay.
I'll allow it.
What else did I do?
I'll allow it to tease out your pony naming schemes.
What else?
Oh,
hair.
Hair.
Well, burgers from hair.
Oh, I was wondering where that one came from.
I thought that meant that he was the one you had marked to eat later.
Yeah, I thought he was just headed to France.
It's burger with an E.
What else?
I can't remember what.
Oh, Boston.
Oh, here I go.
I had Shirley Schmidt and Alan Short.
Now, I've not seen that show, but I understand it was a lot of fun.
No, I just, it's not that there's anything wrong with Boston Legal.
It's just
funny how
your unbridled laughter might suggest that you do think there's something funny.
No, it's just so specific.
I mean, it's
Fraser is
one of the great sitcoms of its time, I think, arguably.
Boston Legal is a show that a lot of people enjoyed, but it's kind kind of a while ago and really specific and also not,
you know,
it's not A-level.
It's like one down.
Well, how long ago were your Boston Legal ponies named?
It was after your Chicago Hope ponies passed on.
Three or four years ago.
I'm behind.
I don't, you know, I watch.
DVDs like later.
I don't have television.
I thought you meant like, I thought you're behind in that, you know, you're watching Boston Legal whenever it was on seven or eight years ago, and you're like, I got to remember these names for some ponies I'm going to get in the future.
Honestly.
Nancy, Allen.
Honestly, Judge Hodgman, I'm one to talk.
I name all my ponies after characters from Allie McBeal.
Dancing Baby, Jane Krakowski.
And Lucy Lou.
Yeah, there you go.
And Peter McNichol.
And I've been married to Harrison Ford for a while.
If you had a Shetland pony named Peter McNichol, I would send you $100.
How much is a yeah, how much does a Shetland pony cost?
I give them away
if they're good homes.
Oh,
they're like zucchini in the summer.
Like, you just get too many of them.
You know what?
I'm going to just leave.
Thanks so much for dinner.
Tomorrow, I'm just going to leave a basket of Shetland ponies on the porch.
No, no, that's not necessary.
No, I'm just going to do it.
I got so many of them.
I have no idea how true that is.
Do you breed these ponies?
Yes.
And here's the thing, Jesse.
You could have had, like, you could have had some Boston legal heyday ponies.
Do you know what I mean?
Because they live 30 years, don't they?
How long do they live?
30 or 40.
30 or 40 years.
These shove up ponies.
What's the oldest one you have?
He's late 30s.
Late 30s?
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, we don't really know exactly how old, but he's getting toothless.
And
what is his name?
Ted Knight from the Chev Knight Show?
Ian Charles.
He's my stallion.
Oh, Ian Charles.
I thought those two different ponies.
Oh, no, that's one.
Just because he's toothless doesn't mean he's in his late 30s.
I'm only in my early 30s.
Who is Ian Charles?
What is Ian Charles a reference to?
I'm missing something.
No, he was named before I got him, and he's named after the son of someone that the person I got him from knows.
Someone had a son and a pony and named them the same thing?
No, some.
The person who gave me some.
This is my son, Ian Charles, and this is our Shetland pony, also Ian Charles.
The person who gave me the pony and named him after the son of someone else she knows.
Not less weird.
How's your son, Ian Charles?
How's your son, Ian Charles?
I hear he went to college.
Everything going well?
Did I tell you I named my pony after your son?
That's weird.
I'm glad you rescued that pony from that weird home and brought him into your own weird home.
So he's your stallion.
So he's the father of all of these ponies that you got?
No, he's the father of some of them.
You have 11 Shetland ponies on your property currently.
How many of them were born on your property of your herd and how many of them were purchased from a different stock?
Currently, I have three that were born here.
Okay.
I have two that were born elsewhere, but when I still had the ponies, and the rest of them I got around the same time I got Ian Charles.
And I didn't name them, all of them.
Okay, I got you.
I understand.
So they're not, it's not like you have a pony infestation on your property and they're just breeding there.
You're getting ponies the normal way.
You buy one here, you adopt one there, you go grocery shopping.
They got some ponies out front.
You'll say, ah, one of my, I'll take two.
There's a special.
It's on the end cap.
End cap ponies.
I've had these ponies the main group since 2001.
Which is your favorite one?
Ian Charles.
Oh, that was a quick answer.
Which he's the best.
Which is the which
pony is the worst?
The worst?
Yeah.
Which is your worst pony?
This is a trick because this is playing into this ill-mannered thing.
It's not a trick.
This is a correct pony.
There's got to be a worst pony.
And despite what you may believe, these ponies don't understand English.
So you could play this podcast for them and their feelings won't be hurt.
You are certainly under fake internet oath.
And I'm asking you, which pony is your worst pony?
I would say Burger.
Yeah.
because he's the youngest.
I would agree.
I don't like the sound of Burger at all.
What is the difference between the best pony and the worst pony without talking about age?
I appreciate that Burger may mature or season into a good pony, but what makes him bad pony and what makes Ian Charles good pony?
Well, Ian Charles is a good pony because he's very handsome and I really feel like he loves me.
And I know that sounds really dumb, but we've established a relationship and I really feels like he's, you know, loves me.
Yeah, Shetland ponies are not dumb animals.
No.
They're not dogs.
They're very smart.
Hey, my dogs love me.
I know.
Dogs form a love bond, I think, with their human companions.
Even though they are hilariously dopey some of the time.
And Shetland ponies.
Are the humans or the dogs?
Both.
And Shetland ponies are, I'm led to understand from Wikipedia, that they are smart animals.
And indeed, they were not bred in order to go down mines, but they were used for many years in England and Scotland and in the United States in mines, in coal mines.
And they would go down there because they're short animals.
They pull that coal around.
And a pit pony, as they were called, might live for shorter than a regular pony because they're underground, but they they might live their whole lives underground, 15 years.
And they would only work with one miner because they formed a bond with that miner.
And that miner would lead that pony around.
And if the miner retired or had an accident or had to leave the mine, usually the pony would not be usable by anyone else.
And so they would retire it.
And the retirement of the pit pony was not always a terrible thing either.
They would go, then they would go above ground and they would blink and they would go, what the hell?
And after after a couple of years, they'd die because they'd just freak out.
Fun facts about ponies, you guys.
Yeah.
So I believe that, I believe that Ian Charles loves you, just as I believe that Burger the pony hates you.
I don't think he hates me.
What's Burger's prob?
And don't say that he's young.
What is his behavior?
What's the behavior that causes you to say on a national, I dare say, international podcast listened to by a lot of ponies, by the way, that he is worst pony of the herd.
See, this is going to be self-incrimination because it's because he misbehaves.
But your complaint, and I haven't even gotten to Nancy yet.
To Becky.
No, Becky, you're Nancy, excuse me.
I haven't even gotten to Becky yet.
Becky, who claims Shetland ponies are ill-mannered, that's a blanket statement.
You are defending your case by saying, Ian Charles is a good pony.
Berger is the worst of herd.
Here's why.
What does he do?
He's difficult to catch.
He's difficult to get to lead.
He's difficult to
just handle, but he's getting better.
So the more time I spend with him, the better he'll be.
And then he might not be the worst pony.
Does he bite?
No.
Not really.
So he has bite?
Not really.
He might have probably nipped.
He might have probably nipped?
Who?
Yeah.
You?
Me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You don't, you may not recall.
Did he nip your amygdala?
And therefore you're not sure?
No, he probably just nipped at my coat or something at some point.
I'm sure he has at some point.
They all do when they're little.
Does he gossip?
Does he talk crap about other ponies behind their backs?
He bothers the other ponies because he's playful.
Oh, okay.
He's
how does he bother the other ponies?
Well, he jumps on them and chases them and tries to get them to play.
All right.
Let's take a quick recess from My Legal Pony to hear about this week's sponsor.
When we return, more about these sweet little ponies.
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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.
Nancy?
No, Becky.
Excuse me.
No, Nancy.
Yes.
No, Becky.
Bancy.
I tend to be a little bad with names in the best of scenarios, but
when both names end with E and both people,
both of the women are veterinarians, I start to get confused because that's true.
You're both trained veterinarians.
Is that not so?
Yeah, we have that effect on men.
I don't know who's talking now.
That's Becky.
All right, Becky?
Yes.
Are you a veterinarian?
I am.
Is Nancy a veterinarian?
She is.
All right.
Becky.
Yes.
You come around to help Nancy with her herd of ponies, and you believe that Shetland ponies are ill-mannered.
Is this accusation true?
I don't believe all Shetland ponies are ill-mannered.
Just Nancy's?
Yes.
Not just Nancy's, but Nancy's are.
I'm sure there are other Shetland ponies out there that are ill-mannered that I don't know about.
Would you say that all 11 of Nancy's current horde of ponies are ill-mannered?
No.
How many of them are ill-mannered?
Ten.
With the exception being Ian Charles, the best pony?
Of course.
Yes, of course.
Yeah.
Ten ponies are ill-mannered.
And how would you characterize an ill-mannered pony?
Does it not take its baseball hat off in a dining room?
Does it not write thank-you notes?
No, probably not.
They haven't ever written one to me.
But
that wasn't what bothers me.
What bothers me isn't, is any horse to me is ill-mannered if they don't respect your personal space.
Okay.
And what's the problem?
Are these ponies coming over to your house and
hanging?
hanging around your office when you're trying to do work
they would if they could drive i guarantee it they're like hey hey, what are you doing?
What are you working on?
Tell me how they don't respect your personal space.
And if Nancy's out there with them,
and she has even said this to me on occasion, that sometimes when she's working around the whole crew, she's a bit uneasy because they surround her and sort of push her around and basically are in her space, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but it's like 10 300-pound misbehaving children pushing you around.
But Becky, Nancy, when you get 11 Shetland ponies together, what do you expect is going to happen?
I expect them to back off and not crowd me.
So you're admitting that they're ill-mannered.
That's Becky talking, yes.
Oh, exactly.
Oh, I thought that was Nancy talking.
Well, they're only really bad like that if I take treats out.
So if I take carrots or peppermints, then yes, it gets a little hairy out there because they all want a treat.
So I don't do that very very often.
Becky, do you have any experience raising Shetland ponies?
I have never raised Shetland ponies.
I have owned Shetland ponies, but I have not reproduced them.
How many Shetland ponies have you ever owned at one time?
How large did your hoard of Shetland ponies get?
One.
Okay.
Do you hoard any other animals?
Cockatiels, snakes?
I have 16 goats, 16 feinting goats.
No.
Is that considered hoarding?
I do.
Don't tell me you have 16 fainting goats.
I do.
Number one, that's not a real animal.
No, it's real.
It's real.
Of course it's real.
Are you calling Becky a liar, Jesse?
Fainting goats.
Yeah.
Do you know what a fainting it's a stiff-legged, what is it called, Becky?
You can call it a stiff-legged or a myotonic goat.
When they get excited or frightened, they stiffen up and fall over.
They don't really faint.
Haven't you used the internet in the past several years, Jesse?
Truly, we live in a world of marvels.
If all of you who are listening to this podcast stop currently in your cars and look up fainting goats, you A will know what I'm talking about, and B, will have wasted yours and the entire world's time as you have blocked traffic.
So don't do it.
Wait till you get home.
So, Becky, you must be in the business of making YouTube videos.
Is that why you have 16 fainting goats?
No, I have 16 fainting goats for the same reason Nancy has ponies.
It's because you breed them and then, you know, you get more.
And then sometimes you can't find them homes.
And then next year you breed them again and you get more.
And then sometimes you can't find them homes.
But why did you get these hilarious novelty goats that when you scream at them, they fall over?
Well, I have always liked goats.
And what I like about the feinting goats is they're very gentle.
They come in all different sizes.
They're very sweet goats, easy to handle.
Easy to
catch.
Easy to bully.
You like animals that fall.
Maybe it's not that the animals are ill-tempered.
Maybe you only like animals that fall down when you yell.
Wouldn't it be great if you could make ponies fall down when you yell at them?
Yeah, why aren't you?
Yeah, Nancy, why aren't you breeding fainting ponies?
And then you make a fortune in YouTube videos.
I like my ponies on the leg, standing up.
I understand.
So which is better, Becky?
Goats or ponies?
Ooh, that's hard.
You know, I'm still a horse person.
I still have to say ponies.
All right.
So you have experience with horses.
Yes, I'm a horse veterinarian.
Okay.
So you have a lot of experience with horses.
Yes.
At all of their
various stages of life and death.
Yes.
And
you've never raised ponies.
You once had one till you realized they're all jerks.
Well, no.
I currently have.
So you fed it to the goats.
I have.
I currently own Shirley Schmidt, who used to be of the Nancy herd, who is now a companion to my horse.
Oh, okay.
And when you adopted Shirley Schmidt from the Nancy Herd, was she an incorrigible jerk?
Was she ill-mannered?
Yes.
Have you trained her upright now?
No.
Well, I have
Nancy.
Becky, have you trained her upright?
I have trained her, but the ill-mannered part is never going to go away.
There's always that underlying rebel that causes trouble.
Do you believe that this is an innate character trait of all Shetland ponies, or are you saying that Nancy is a terrible Shetland owner?
I'm saying that in the horse world, the joke is that pony is a four-letter word.
Please send me as quickly as possible a book of horse world jokes.
So
you're not blaming your friend Nancy for the terrible behavior of her ponies.
It's just part of owning a pony.
No, I'm not blaming Nancy, but I just want her to
be more firm with them.
And it's the, because I don't care how her ponies behave, but I do care about her safety.
You feel
like, excuse me, Nancy.
Becky, you feel...
Describe the behavior of these monsters that make you fear for your friend's safety.
Well, first off, she's often out there with the ponies by herself, and you think, oh, little ponies, what can little ponies do?
But if you if you have a bunch of them pushing you around, if she gets knocked down or hurt, there's nobody here that's gonna realize that.
So you think it's gonna be one of those situations where just the neighbor down the hall notices a smell and they come and open up her apartment.
It's just overrun with ponies.
There's just a skeleton.
Or Nancy will be dragging herself across a field trying to get help.
And hopefully her rooster wouldn't get to her first because that would be really ugly.
How realistic do you feel it is, Nancy, that a pony might knock you down, causing you to hurt yourself such that you would become immobile?
Well, I think it's possible, but I think it would be an accident.
No, I'm not suggesting that the ponies have malice in their hearts towards you.
I don't even think that Nancy is suggesting, excuse me, Becky is suggesting that.
I'm suggesting it as the premise for a new television show, which is called All Creatures Great and Small, Special Victims Unit.
All right, that's a podcast, everyone.
Good night.
Nancy, have you ever been in a situation where you felt menaced by all of these small ponies?
Once, well, a couple times over the years, but describe
describe the horror.
Well,
I don't, it wasn't a horror.
Well, I remember one time specifically, they crowded around.
I was trying to get like through a gate and they were all crowded around.
And I think I might have gone to my knees briefly because of the crowding.
And then there was a car driving by, and I was kind of embarrassed because I didn't want someone to see and think that.
things were out of control.
And I got up and I was okay.
It's a little more dicey, like if I'm handling the babies when I'm trying to train them for halt, get them haltered and such, and the baby's kind of get a little out of control.
I got a little confused there for a moment.
I thought you were also running a child care service, and you were talking about handling the babies amidst your herd of ponies.
No, would you feel safer?
Would you feel safer around a herd of 11 small ponies or one pony-sized duck?
This is that old.
Speaking of internet memes, you guys are both internet memes come to life.
Really?
Well, yeah, because Becky, you got all the fainting goats, and Nancy, you've got the herd of duck-sized horses.
You're familiar with that old saw, right?
Which would you rather fight?
A herd of duck-sized horses or a single horse-sized duck?
What's the duck-sized horses?
Is that one of the options?
Yeah, that's what I said.
A herd of them, though.
Not one.
They're coming at you from every
Because I know how horses react and behave.
I don't know how ducks do it.
Yeah, you have experience fighting off herds of duck-sized horses already.
It's happened a couple of times.
No, you know,
that's not really true.
If you are afraid of the neighbors seeing you menaced by 11 ponies, does that not suggest that outside of your own little isolated world, once it is perceived by the outside world, you're afraid that the outside world might see there's something dangerous and wrong about what you're doing.
That was one time.
I mean, most of the time, my neighbors see me out walking around, petting the ponies, brushing the ponies, and nothing's going on.
I just think that Becky is painting a very wrong portrait of my ponies.
And I think it's because
Shirley is
a little bit difficult.
Tell me more about what Becky's motive would be for slandering your ponies.
I think it's Shirley.
Go on.
Because Shirley misbehaves.
She does stuff that can be some people might think are bad.
Like she
ate part of her fence or something.
Now, this was when she went to Becky's.
And
I didn't have any problems with Shirley here.
And Becky picked Shirley out.
So I think it's Becky's responsibility to manage the the pony.
Becky, is this true?
Are you upset because you think that Nancy passed a bum pony off on you?
No, no, I definitely picked Shirley out because I needed a pony that could stand up to my horse and tolerate his behavior.
So you've got a jerk horse, too.
What's the name of your horse?
Sidney.
Sidney from the TV show Love Sydney, starring Tony Randall?
No.
Oh.
Well, that's what it should be.
I don't name my animals after TV personalities.
All right.
Tony Randall would be a great name for a horse.
Who's my horse, Tony Randall?
Just think about it.
Or a pony.
Think about it.
If I had a bunch of horses, all of them would be named after the Kentucky Derby horses from that one Mr.
Show sketch.
You know, like Batman the horse.
I don't doubt it at all.
Mr.
Flash horse.
Nor is it impossible for me to picture you, Jesse Thorne, with three or four shetland ponies on your property well i would have miniature donkeys donks
uh all right becky do you think nancy uh has an animal hoarding problem no okay do you think she's a responsible owner of the ponies do you think she has too many does she have more than she can handle no okay Your main concern is that she's being menaced by the ponies and they're plotting against her?
My main concern is that she doesn't set good boundaries with the ponies.
And like she was just saying about Shirley Smith, was no problem here in her herd because her standards are different than mine.
So she's okay if ponies bump into her and push her around and things like that, and I'm not.
And so
that's the difference of opinion is just.
Hypothetically, since you both have experience with large animals, if you were to take care of 11 Shetland ponies, let's say you inherited Nancy's herd of 11 Shetland ponies because those ponies mauled her to death or did something terrible to her or sent her out of the country.
How would you raise them differently?
How would you care for them differently than your best friend, Nancy?
Well, I have to say that maybe that's my concern about Nancy's safety is I don't want to inherit 11 Shetland ponies.
But anyway, I tend to be more strict with my horses and they are not allowed to get close to me unless I let them get close to me.
If you were to take over that herd of ponies, what would you do differently?
Or if you had your own herd of ponies?
Like what, what, I understand you say they are not allowed to get close to me, but
how do you have that happen?
You just have to get after them a little bit.
You sometimes have to smack them on the butt and say back off or chase them away from you when they're getting too close.
They learn to respect you pretty quickly when they know that you're not going to let them crowd you.
So a whack and verbal chastisement, that is the way to get a pony to respect you.
I want to know because I want to earn these ponies respect.
Yes.
All right.
And you don't think that Nancy whacks her ponies enough?
I don't know if Nancy has ever raised a hand to her ponies.
Nancy, how do you respond to Becky's suggestion that you ought to hit your ponies more?
Well,
I, you know, that's kind of barbaric to hit a pony, I think.
But, I mean, if you're trying to get past them, yeah, I might slap them on the rear end and they may or may not move, but they don't kick me or anything if I go by.
So I can weave my way in between ponies and I'm not worried about getting kicked.
So, yeah, they don't really respect my personal space very much, but they don't generally do anything.
Is it barbaric to whack a pony on the butt?
No.
No.
I mean, I don't know what the standards of pony raising are because I live in Brooklyn
where the only animals we raise are chickens and spoiled children.
No, it's pretty standard if you're going past or, you know, if you're trying to, or asking an animal like a horse to move, you might, I mean, it's not, I wouldn't call it a whack.
It's just kind of a
slap.
How many ponies is too many ponies?
Well, I think 10 is fine.
So you're already way over the limit.
Well, yeah.
But I was up to 14 last year, so that was just too many.
And what became of the three?
You gave one to Becky.
Yeah, one to Becky, one went to another friend.
Right.
And, oh, one went to a local person, person nearby.
All of whom you had vengeance against.
Yeah, no.
But the records show that she said yes.
You're training these ponies to be assassins.
Admit the truth.
No, they're very good ponies, and I train them using positive reinforcement, and it's just that I don't do enough of it.
All right.
You don't do enough positive reinforcement.
Well, I don't.
That means
giving them rewards for the correct behavior.
And ignoring the unwanted behavior.
Yes.
Right.
How many...
This question is for Nancy.
With regard to Becky's goats, how many fainting goats are too many fainting goats?
I don't, I, I think she has enough.
I think it's absolutely.
I think we all agree she has enough.
Do you think 16 might not be enough?
Is it
well, if she has, she has the room for more if she wanted more, and she it's just a matter of not having,
it takes a lot of time.
to take care of them.
Why do you care, Nancy, what Becky thinks thinks of your ponies?
Why would you bring this to my court?
What does it matter if she thinks badly of your ponies?
Well, I guess in part, if she thinks my ponies are ill-mannered, well, when she first said it, I was kind of taken aback because I think my ponies are wonderful.
And I guess then I start to wonder, so she really means that?
And what am I not seeing?
Because I think they're good ponies.
And then I guess the whole thing about Shetland ponies in general being bad ponies, and I get a little irritated, not with Becky per se, but everybody's got a bad Shetland pony story.
And it's just because they weren't handling them properly.
So I get a little irritated about the general misconception about Shetlands.
Is that true?
Does everyone have a bad Shetland pony story?
Or is this possibly a matter of you having an unusual sample?
People that have been around horses, especially older people,
probably had a Shetland pony when they were little.
So you're saying that Nancy claiming that your ponies are ill-tempered is a comment on your raising of those ponies.
Well, I take it very personally because these ponies are kind of, they're like me.
They're kind of my identity.
So I take it personally both on their behalf and also on my behalf as their owner.
And she's saying this around town and ruining your reputation in the Shetland pony community?
Well, I worry that that might be happening, although I don't, I'm not really part of a community.
No, as I would imagine, someone with 11 Shetland ponies probably does feel that way.
It takes an enormous amount of self-awareness for a woman who owns 11 Shetland ponies that she considers to be extensions of herself to acknowledge that she's not really part of a community.
I think we made a major step right then.
You're doing some hard work, Nancy, right now, and I appreciate it.
I think I do have a lot of self-awareness.
I know you do.
I'm just being silly.
I think we should change it from Judge John Hodgman to Dr.
John Hodgman.
I have a doctor in fake internet judging, an honorary doctorate from Ravens Crest University.
Well, but still,
Becky, this does amount to a kind of slander.
If you're going around town and posting mean comments about Nancy's ponies on the Shetland bulletin boards and whatever, this amounts to a critique of her as a person, does it not?
I can honestly say that the subject of Nancy and her ponies has never come up in any of my day-to-day conversations with anybody.
What would you advise me to do, Becky, if I were defined in your favor with regard to Nancy's ponies?
What would you want me to order?
Because I can't change the nature of Shetland ponies.
But if there is something at work here beyond simply your having a rather sniffy opinion of your friend's pony raising habits, what would you ask me if there was a motivating factor of her safety or a concern for her health, physical or mental, what would you have me order her?
Bearing in mind that you own 16 fainting goats.
Okay.
All I would ask is that you allow me to keep telling her that they're ill-mannered, because ever since I said that, she's on such a quest to prove me wrong that she keeps telling me how much she's been working with the ponies.
So, by me saying the ponies are ill-mannered, it motivates her to
make them more well-mannered.
So, I don't need you to do anything other than let me keep saying it.
Nancy, has Becky's observation or slander, depending on how I define it in my verdict, caused you to treat your ponies differently?
And has you seen a net positive or negative result due to that treatment?
I don't think I've treated them differently.
No, but I look at them and wonder, like if they do something and think,
is that bad?
Because it doesn't bother me.
But I think, is that ill-mannered?
Because
it might not be something that, like, if I have to spend a little more time doing something
just because they're not as well trained as other people's horses, it doesn't really bother me that much.
So you're saying your opinion of your ponies and your pony raising is not changed by Becky's observation that they are ill-mannered?
Well, I question it a little, but in general, no, it hasn't changed.
You question it because you don't believe it to be true.
Because I don't believe it to be true, but it makes me wonder.
I worry, am I missing something?
Am I really
off base here?
And so you would have me order that Becky be a gag order with regard to Becky's comments about the manners of your Chetalin ponies.
Well, I guess it was good that we had a conversation here because...
I would like her to not call them ill-mannered, but if she really thinks they're ill-mannered and there's something really wrong, then I want to know.
I always worry that people don't tell me the truth because they like me.
Not that I think that many people like me that much, but if someone likes me.
Well, but if someone likes me, I worry that they're not really telling me everything I need to know.
Do you guys have family members living at home with you, or is it just you and your goats and ponies?
Sadly, it's just me and my goats and her and her ponies.
All right.
Then it's important that you guys stay friends.
I think I've heard everything that I need to in order to make my decision.
I'm going to ride my pony down into the coal pit that is my chambers and I'll make my decision in a moment.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
Nancy, how are you feeling about your chances?
I think my chances are pretty good.
I don't think Becky really made a very strong case about how ill-mannered she thinks my ponies are or the danger that she thinks I'm in.
I think there's many more dangerous things than my ponies.
Becky, how are you feeling?
Well, honestly, after the last comment about our sad, pathetic lives, and we better remain friends, I don't really care.
How come neither one of you has ever purchased or otherwise obtained a donk or miniature donkey?
Oh, don't even get me going on that.
You mean
you wouldn't be able to stop talking about how adorable it is?
No.
Actually, there are two miniature donkeys that live on my brother's property, which is part of mine.
So I do
take care of them as a vet.
And they,
being half mule-like in their personality, they're like ponies on steroids, behavior-wise.
We'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's verdict.
But first, let's hear about some of our sister shows here at maximumfun.org.
You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years.
And
maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.
And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.
But no, no, you would be wrong.
We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.
Yeah.
You don't even really know how crypto works.
The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.
We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.
And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.
So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.
All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.
Let's learn everything.
So let's do a quick progress check.
Have we learned about quantum physics?
Yes, episode 59.
We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?
Yes, we have.
Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?
Episode 64.
So how close close are we to learning everything?
Bad news, we still haven't learned everything yet.
Oh, we're ruined!
No, no, no, it's good news as well.
There is still a lot to learn.
Woo!
I'm Dr.
Ella Hubber.
I'm regular Tom Lum.
I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.
And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.
Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.
Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case, and we have some very exciting things coming up, not least of which is a show at Lincoln Center.
Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm not taking a break from.
My excitement about this show at Lincoln Center, June the 29th, Jesse Thorne.
This is a free show, John.
This is a free outdoor show.
If you want to spend a beautiful summer night out under the stars, enjoying our brand of comedy-adjacent humorous performance.
Lincoln Center is where you're going to want to go.
Wednesday, June 29th.
Look, you've got time to plan a trip, folks.
Yeah.
I don't care if you live in Massachusetts.
I don't care if you live in Charlotte.
We're not going anywhere else right now.
So come to Lincoln Center, enjoy this beautiful free show.
If you've got pals in New York, tell them to come.
If you're in New York, Bring pals.
This is a free show.
And we're going to put on a show that your friends who don't listen to this program can enjoy.
Not only that, but we have a very special guest, the universally beloved Gene Gray.
That's like the talented me.
Gene will be there.
Jesse will be there.
I will be there.
Jennifer Marmor will be there, making sure everything goes the way it's supposed to go.
That's why we call Jennifer Marmor the goal later.
We're really, really excited about going to Lincoln Center for our first show, first live justice show since the beginning of all of this.
And to be able to share it with people for free in the open air under the stars.
It's just going to be wonderful.
I'm going to sing in this thing, John.
You're going to sing a song?
Yeah, I'm bringing my, you know why they they call it a concert ukulele?
Because you play it in concert, baby, right there at Lincoln Center.
I'm going to be the worst professional musician ever to perform at Lincoln Center.
Lincoln Center, Damrosch Park, June 29th.
You can get and reserve your tickets at bit.ly slash JJ H O Lincoln.
All capital letters, all one word.
Just Google it.
Just Google.
John Hodgman, Lincoln Center, June 29th.
It's going to be fantastic.com.
I look forward to seeing you there.
I have a very exciting guest this week on Bullseye for people who don't live in the New York, New Jersey area and aren't interested in buying plane tickets.
Right.
Michael Stipe from REM.
He's one of the main REMs, I hear.
I think he's the primary REM, and he's a very fascinating conversationalist.
We talked a lot about
things, including but not limited to outsider and visionary art,
how he realized he was queer,
the history of the band, his nice loft that he lives in that I could see through the Zoom and just seemed like a parody of the loft that Michael Stipe would live in and its tastefulness and attractiveness and New Yorkiness.
It's a really great conversation.
He's a really brilliant guy and a fascinating guy to talk to.
And not someone I feel has been interviewed a lot in depth.
No, and
this is a really great one.
Whether you're a big REM fan or you're just interested in learning more about a guy who is
certainly a cultural touchstone,
he's on Bullseye this week.
So just search for Bullseye in the podcast app that you're using to listen to this show right now.
And please subscribe.
It's a fantastic show featuring incredible conversations between Jesse Thorns and all kinds of cultural touchstones.
I'm a better person because of this show.
You should listen to it.
Let me tell you this, John.
If Michael Stipe didn't sell them, I also this week interviewed Claudio Doherty, the Australian comic and actress.
She's one of the funniest people on earth.
And at one point in the interview, I did say, you're probably friends with Yahoo Sirius, the star of young Einstein.
And she revealed to me that Yahoo Sirius and his wife were close family friends of theirs.
There you go.
So you also get that if you subscribe to Bullseye.
We'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.
Well, I almost didn't come back because I was too busy looking at pictures of donks.
They're so cute.
Miniature donkeys.
I wish, I guess I could probably have a small herd of donks here in Brooklyn, right?
Like in the courtyard of your apartment building?
Yeah, that could be, everyone would enjoy that.
I think that would be fun.
I bet you someone would write about me in Time Out New York.
And it would be a good way to get into the style section of the New York Times.
Look what Brooklyn people are trying to do now to get attention.
That'll be the headline.
You won't believe what podcasters are up to.
All these cute little donks.
But here's the thing.
I don't live in the country.
Not full time anyway.
I've spent some time out in the country in Internetless Hills, Western Massachusetts, in a semi-rural to rural area like the one I think you guys inhabit.
A couple of acres of land separating you from everyone else in the world.
I'd never really considered the very serious possibility of being marauded by a herd of donkeys or ponies such that I couldn't get help.
But it's true.
If I fell down, if I fell down and hurt myself and there was no one within earshot, it would be different than if I were in New York City.
That said, I'm not really sure that these Shetland ponies present an imminent risk of harm to Nancy, despite Becky's trumped-up charges of Shetland pony conspiracy.
That said, Nancy, every child has a parent, and every parent believes their child is wonderful, smart, and beautiful.
And we know, though, from history, that those parents are not always right.
Sometimes children are not as smart, or not as beautiful, or not as good as their parents naturally believe them to be.
There is a perception bias.
The one who owns the Shetland ponies sees only good ponies.
She sees them as an expression of herself.
This is a well-known saying.
Amongst the people.
You see it on any t-shirt.
The one who owns the ponies sees all ponies as good, or whatever it was I said.
New t-shirt.
Sometimes we need friends, especially if we are all alone in the world with our ponies and our goats, who do not speak English, to tell us the hard truths that we may not be able to perceive ourselves.
And when someone says to you, your ponies are ill-mannered,
as happens on the subway in New York City all the time,
they may be crazy, they may be jealous, they may be mean, but every now and again, they may be right about one of your ponies, and when you have 11 of them, It's even more statistically likely they're right about at least one.
So when someone gives you a note, whether it is in pony raising or story writing or child rearing that you don't like, you do not need to shut them up.
All you need to do is say, huh,
maybe there's something I need to look at here.
And you look a little more closely, and then you use your best judgment to determine whether or not your friend is your friend or just a jealous goat owner.
Doesn't have the stuff that it takes to keep 11 ponies.
Doesn't have what it takes to keep a bunch of animals that when you yell at them, stay standing.
Whatever the case,
it is okay for your friend to make a comment about your ponies.
Anyone who owns 11 animals and is being constantly jostled and pushed and nipped at by them has to have some thick skin.
Which isn't to say that I am necessarily finding in Becky's favor, because Becky, your job is done.
I'm convinced that Nancy has heard what you had to say,
the mean comment about her ponies.
It has had the effect that you wanted.
It has given her a moment of reflection.
She has revealed that she is aware of an outside world in which people don't own 11 ponies.
And she is doing the hard work it takes to make sure that her ponies are being raised correctly.
To continue, as you have suggested, to tell her over and over again that her ponies are ill-mannered,
in person, and I presume you would also like to write little notes to her to slip under her door every day.
Ponies are ill-mannered.
Call her up in the middle of the night.
Your ponies are ill-mannered.
And otherwise torture her with
your perception
goes beyond neighborliness and friendliness.
You've made your point.
I've helped you make it.
Let the matter now rest.
Let it rest like a fainting goat
i find in
nancy's favor and so this is the sound of a gabble
judge john hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom becky how do you feel
i think that was a fair fair assessment nancy do you feel vindicated uh yeah yes i do
i think they're very good ponies, but
I will try to pay better attention to how they might be perceived.
You guys are the best.
Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
Good luck, you guys.
Thank you.
Thank you, Judge.
So we actually heard an update on this case from Nancy and Becky in 2016.
So let's take a listen.
Let's take a listen.
Nancy, how are the ponies doing?
The ponies are doing very well, and I have to admit that I think they are ill-mannered.
Oh.
How is the herd...
So do you still have 11 of them?
Yes.
And all the same ones?
Yes.
Oh, that's great.
And so
what opened your eyes to the fact that your ponies are rude?
Well, I moved.
And so
in the process of moving, the younger ones, the three younger ones, Berger, Fraser, and Niles, had to have some new experiences, loading on a trailer, getting off a trailer, moving into a barn.
And they were very naughty.
Did they steal the trailer?
And go for a joyride?
No.
Well, they were actually really good on the trailer, but they just didn't like getting in and out of the trailer.
And kind of realized that maybe what I thought was good behavior was just that they had a routine and habits.
And
when we took them out of those, their true nature and my lack of skills and,
you know.
It was a stampede.
They had a stampede.
Is that what you're saying?
Well, it was a little bit of a stampede, yeah.
Oh, all right.
At any point, did you feel like you might
lose a pony or your own life?
No, I thought my life was okay, but there were a couple close calls losing ponies, but we didn't lose any and we got them all moved, but
they were pretty bad.
And so I
blame you, Judge Hodgman, actually.
Why?
Because I, you know, maybe if you had come down harder on me the last time, I would have, you know,
been a little more diligent with my training.
What did I rule?
I ruled sometimes you need a friend to tell you a hard truth.
Becky said that to you.
You had to hear that, but apparently you didn't hear it.
And then you said that you would, according to my notes, you pledged to pay more careful attention to how the ponies were perceived.
I'm not even sure what that means.
Yeah,
I didn't do that.
You didn't do it.
You didn't do it.
Well, of course, you should blame me.
Now you know.
So where did you move to?
I moved to kind of the Pocono Mountains part of Pennsylvania.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
So are you coming to Max FunCon East and bringing the ponies?
Where is Max FunCon East?
It's in the Poconos.
Oh, it is?
Yeah.
Sure.
It's going to be over Labor Day.
It's going to be great.
Can you bring like one or two good ponies?
Not those bad ponies like Berger and Frazier and Niles.
What's the best of your ponies?
Well, you know who the best is.
It's Ian Charles.
Ian Charles.
The pony so nice they named him twice.
You could bring everybody to my place and we could have a real, you know, ho-down.
Oh, no, no, no.
We don't want any of the Max Funakon attendees to be trampled by your demon ponies.
Just get Ian Charles.
in your car, drive him over to the hotel for an afternoon, a little bit of petting, a little bit of visiting, and we'll put you up for the night.
Nancy, now that your eyes are opened and it's all my fault and you're in the Poconos, how are you handling these ponies differently?
I'm not.
You're just indulging them.
Well, the one time we did try to do things in a civilized manner, you know, I put halters on them, led them around.
It just ended in frustrations.
So now that, right, now the way they live now there in the Poconos is they're all out standing in their fields.
I'm a dad.
They're all out there just feral.
And every now and then you throw them some feed and run away.
Yeah, I do kind of run sometimes.
But that's how they see, that's how they were at the old place.
It's just that the new place isn't as easy to work around with them being feral.
Are they in a bigger pony paddock?
Are they in a bigger enclosure or smaller?
Well, it's a little of both.
It's smaller ones and a bigger one.
And I can't just let them loose to go from one.
It can't be smaller and bigger.
You have to answer.
You have to rejoin our reality.
Do you have more property or less property for ponies to roam on now?
More property.
More property.
All right.
So now they have a whole empire, a Pocono Pony Empire.
yes yeah you are you are uh yeah yeah they're the they're the dothraki of ponies they were gonna they're gonna run over your civilization right quick
well
uh becky
are you still are you still visiting and close with nancy i have that well we're still close but i have yet to come visit her farm yeah i don't think you should go out there i think it's i think it's turned i think it's turning into a mad max situation out there pony now pony is king but I've always wanted to visit a bigger, smaller farm.
It's a farm in a pocket dimension.
Nancy, I wish you the best of luck.
And now that your eyes are open, I mean, I don't know what to say.
As your judge, I simply want you to stay alive and be careful.
But I will order you to name all of the ponies again because I forget.
I know Ian, Charles, Berger, Niles, and Frazier.
That's four.
But there are seven seven more.
Russell Stover,
Maddie, Sprite, Dewdrop, Connie.
Is that everybody now?
Russell Stover, Maddie, Dewdrop, Sprite, Connie.
You're too short.
Oh, Godiva, Goddiva.
Godiva.
No, that's right.
That's 11 by my count.
Godiva.
So you got, you have some chocolates.
You have some fairy names.
You have some homages to the television show Frasier.
And then there's Ian Charles.
Yes.
I can't wait to see Ian Charles, the best pony.
And boo,
here's what you do: you go out there, you get all those ponies, gather around, have a pony moot, and say, listen up, y'all.
Ian Charles, still the best.
Berger, Frasier, and Niles,
one million years dungeon, says John Hodgman.
I'll do that.
I'm sure it'll help.
I bet it'll help as much as anything.
Good luck to you, Nancy.
Becky, go patch up a horse.
Okay.
We also heard from Nancy again at the end of 2021 about one of her beloved stallions.
Yeah, Jesse, this is a sad one, but it is something that all people who live with pets come to understand is inevitable.
Nancy wrote, I am Nancy from My Legal Pony.
Judge Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse seem to enjoy talking to us about my old stallion, Ian Charles.
And Nancy, we really did enjoy talking about Ian Charles.
I called him the pony so nice you named him twice.
Nancy says, I had to say goodbye to Charles this morning.
He was about 40 years old.
Wow.
And I had him for 21 years.
I appreciated Judge John and Bailiff Jesse hearing our dispute and letting me give a shout out to the whole world about Charles.
Though our dispute was about ill-mannered ponies, we specifically excluded Charles from that group.
Thanks, guys, for all your great podcasts over the years, Nancy.
And thank you, Nancy, for being a fan and supporter of Judge John Hodgman.
And thank you, Ian Charles, wherever you are, for being a good friend to Nancy.
And indeed, all Nancy's everywhere.
I, this week, am remembering a pet friend of mine named George, who belonged to our producer, Jennifer.
Yeah.
He was a sweet, sweet guy.
I loved getting to spend time with him at our office.
And I know what a special friend he was to Jen.
uh and her husband Shane
as Jen was pregnant and having their first child and a special friend to that child as well.
So
we'll remember you well, George.
You're a good pal.
Cuddle your animal friends, everybody.
Thank you.
That was My Legal Pony from Deep in the Archives of Judge John Hodgman.
It was produced originally by Julia Smith and edited by Mark McConville.
Our producer now, Jennifer Marmer.
Our editor on this episode, Valerie Moffat.
Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.
We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.
Make sure to hashtag your judgejohodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, and check out the maximum fun subreddit to discuss this episode.
That's at maximumfund.reddit.com.
Submit your cases to judgejohnhodgman at maximumfun.org slash jjho.
John, I bet there are more animal cases out there, don't you think?
We always love an animal case.
So please, if you're in a dispute with your cat or dog.
And they can talk.
And especially if they can talk.
Look, if your cat or dog or pony or snake or bearded dragon or pet of any kind can speak English, please write to us first.
Please write to us before you call the news or your paranormal detective show.
Write to us first at maximumfund.org slash jjho.
Or if you have a dispute about your beloved animals, we love looking at their pictures and talking about them and thinking about them.
If you've got a case, by the way, in the New York City area, make sure to let us know because we're headed to New York and we are looking forward to your cases.
So go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO, submit your case.
Make sure to note if you are in what I like to call the four corners: that's New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Long Island.
As long as Connecticut is erased, I'm happy.
We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
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