Juvenile Court Returns Again!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the dock.

And with me is a man with a full head of his own natural hair, Judge John Hodgman.

I have a full head of my own natural hair despite my advanced age.

And what is even stranger, people, when I get on the road again,

I can hear our guest chuckling at me.

That's fine.

Just chuckle along, guest.

I appreciate this feedback.

feedback.

Normally I do this without any feedback whatsoever.

Just the cold, stony stare of Jesse Thorne.

When we get back on the road again, Jesse Thorne, I'm afraid our audience members and listeners are going to be concerned.

They're going to say, why is John Hodgman wearing that obvious toupee?

Because

what's a toupee?

A toupee is a wig.

Usually it refers to a wig that an older gentleman might put on his head to hide his balding head.

A wig that covers just the top of your head.

Yeah, just the two, just the tope, you know what I mean?

Yes, just the top of your head.

Right.

But you see, while my beard has aged gracefully into its appropriate wizened gray, there is not a single gray hair on my head here.

And now looks fake compared to the rest of my hair.

But it is my natural hair.

Do you accept this?

Uh, no.

All right.

Well, you are the judge, as well as I.

I'm going to let Jesse introduce you in a moment, mystery guest.

Because

I know what court is.

It's where the judge slams the hammer and then they finally say guilty.

Well, sometimes they say not guilty, let's hope.

But yes, they make a ruling.

And they slam the hammer a lot.

They slam the hammy.

Also known as gavel.

This is Judge John Hodgman, but as you can tell, it is a special episode of Judge John Hodgman, not merely.

A return to juvenile court where finally young people are given their day in court, but a special episode because we welcome a special guest judge.

Very rare, very rare to have a guest judge.

We've had guest bailiffs, but a guest judge, this is a first, and it makes sense because this person not only is wise, sagacious, thoughtful, and owns his own gavel, but also

is a young person.

Please welcome guest co-judge to juvenile court, Judge Oscar Thorne.

Hello, Judge Thorne.

Hello.

This is going to be fantastic.

Bailiff Jesse, can you explain your relationship to the judge?

I'm the parent of this judge.

He recently appointed himself judge.

He gets an allowance every week.

Sure.

He tends to save his allowance, but the other day he had a special idea for what to use his allowance on, and it was an unusual one.

What did you use your allowance to buy, Oscar?

Probably bubblegum or a spider from the pet store, right?

No, I bought a gavel.

Wow.

Why?

Because

it's a gavel.

Yeah, for hammering.

Yeah.

It is not only a socially acceptable form of hammering

when no hammering needs to be done, but it is a socially necessary form of hammering because the gavel, of course, indicates that justice is done.

Hey, Judge Oscar Thorne, did you bring your gavel today?

Nope, I did not.

So in lieu of,

that's a fancy pants way of saying instead of, I went to Yale, instead of a gavel sound, when you make your final judgment, will you make the mouth sound you were making before we started recording?

Perfect.

Let's get into the docket.

Here's a case from Aaron in Chicago.

My seven-year-old son and I have a dispute over whether to wear normal underwear under

long underwear.

I always wear normal underwear under my long underwear.

My son says long underwear are underwear, and therefore you don't need to wear normal underwear under the long underwear.

Who's right?

First of all, is this a tongue twister?

Yes, it's

Aaron in Chicago says, to sit in solemn silence on a dull, dark dock in a pestilential prison with a lifelong lock, awaiting the sensation of a short, sharp shock from a cheap and chippy chopper on a big black block.

Chicago.

Yeah, that is the motto of Chicago, I believe.

believe.

Yeah.

So, first of all,

remind me of your age, please, Judge Thorne.

I'm only eight.

You're eight.

So you're a year older than Aaron's son.

You're right in the zone for being fair and impartial in this situation.

Okay.

If you were seven, I would have to ask you to recuse yourself, but you're eight.

You have significant life experience greater than the sun.

So, what's your initial feeling about this?

Do you even know?

You live in Los Angeles, California?

Do you know what long underwear is?

Not

well, dad told me it's like the long underwear.

Yeah, but I also don't really understand it

what the dispute is because it's so confusing.

Yeah, let me break it down to you.

I hope you know what underwear is.

I know what underwear is.

I put it on in the morning.

You put it on in the morning.

Good.

Yes.

So far, so good.

People in the colder places like Chicago or where I am from, New England, and even New York, where I am now, sometimes we have to wear long underwear.

Underwear, also called thermal underwear.

It is underwear to keep you warm in the cold winter, which is what we're having right now on the East Coast.

You would put on what some people call a base layer.

You put on long underwear to keep your legs warm.

Now, the question is, when you wear long underwear, do you wear regular short underwear underneath it?

Um, so should I just say what I think?

Say what you think.

Say what you think.

I think it's really, really weird that someone would wear two pairs of underwear.

So I'd say you should just maybe just wear long underwear.

You're on Aaron's son's side, then, the child's side.

Yes.

Plus, I am a child.

Jesse Thorne, menswear expert.

What's your take on this?

I just can't imagine having thermal underwear directly against my central region.

Really?

My intimate area is too delicate for a waffle knit.

Yeah.

Oh, you see your girl's your dad?

Welcome to my dad.

Welcome to my dad's daughter.

Well, we have, so Oscar and I have some experience wearing long underwear because we have a mountain cabin

where it snows a lot in the winter.

And there's bears.

And there's bears.

Sure.

And while we don't know the bears' stance on underpants.

And there's snakes.

There are snakes as well.

That's also true.

And mountain lions.

Yeah.

And mosquitoes.

Yeah.

And a lake and some trees.

Lots and lots of trees.

What we usually do is we wear newfangled long underwear.

What they call a base layer.

Yeah, we wear synthetic long underwear from a popular Japanese clothing retailer.

And

that is actually relatively soft.

But in general, I think of the long underwear as sort of like a pair of pants under your pants.

And I just don't think that the long underwear is designed to engage the central region in the same way that underpants are.

I don't know the bear's stance on underpants, but I do know a bear doesn't wear any underwear.

No.

Because they got fur.

They got furs, lots of them.

Lots of furs all over their bodies.

Lots and lots of fur.

So much fur.

And that's why a bear is called a bear because it's bare and it doesn't have any fur, even though it has lots of fur.

I think when I was your age, Oscar, and I had to wear long underwear, it was rudimentary thermal underwear of the old-style kind.

And I probably did not wear an extra pair of underwear.

I probably just put that on, slapped that on, put on my pants, and went on my walk to Heath School.

But here is where age and wisdom and more familiarity with chafing comes to mind.

Comes into play, I should say.

I'm going to say that if you live in Chicago, you can't wear too many layers.

You can't go wrong.

As well, I have a feeling Aaron's son is probably impatient to get on with his day and is trying to get out of wearing that extra pair of underwear.

I think he's just thinking about expediency rather than logic.

I'm going to find in favor of Aaron because I do believe an extra layer is a good idea, especially with the new stuff.

And also because I'm a dad and I side side with dads.

Sorry.

Oscar, you don't like scritchy, scratchy clothes, so wouldn't you be uncomfortable wearing scritchy, scratchy stuff right up against your business?

What do you mean?

What would be scritchy, scratchy?

The long underwear.

Really?

Yeah, it could be.

Well, good news.

I don't live in Chicago.

Ding, ding.

Yeah, so he's out.

So, Oscar, you have the final judgment

as you have the wisdom of childhood.

We've all made our cases.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Kid or dad?

Kid.

Of course.

Kid win.

Make the sound.

Make the sound.

Fantastic.

Moving on.

Here's a case from Henry.

My friend Victor says you cannot be a partner with another person during a game of tag, but he does it.

And he came up with it first.

Oscar, you've played the game tag, presumably, in your life?

I'm eight.

Of course, I play tag a lot.

Look, hey, I don't know what the kids are playing these days.

He also plays Minecraft.

Yes.

And I also play Do Math.

Yeah, he likes math.

He does math.

Excellent.

Well,

tag has very simple rules.

Someone's it.

They got to tag someone else for them to be it.

There are variants, of course.

There's

freeze tag.

Yeah.

There's what are some of the other variants that are being played these days on the playgrounds around America?

Because that's all I can recall.

Any other kinds of tag?

Let me me think.

There's Infinity Tag where everyone's it and they try to tag each other.

That's just chaos.

Yeah, it is chaos.

I do it in PE.

It's chaos.

It's called

chaos.

I like that.

And then there's pop tag.

That's when you just go thrift shopping.

What's pop tag?

I don't know what pop tag is.

It's just you go thrift shopping.

That's a terrible joke that dads make.

Well, all that I know that dad likes is clothes, and that's it.

It's true.

Dad really likes clothes.

I like my children as well.

And he also likes his socks, and he also likes shoes, and he also likes wearing a suit sometimes when he comes.

Clothes, children, socks in order of brightness.

So, Henry shared with us a illustration.

Is it possible that we can see that illustration in case Judge Oscar would like to see it?

What's this?

So, this is a picture.

We here see Victor.

Victor presumably is saying that team tag is not allowed.

Right.

Me, which is Henry, is saying you started it.

So the issue here is that Victor is saying there's no such thing as team tag when he is both playing team tag and he invented team tag.

He's the inventor of team tag.

Hmm.

Very interesting.

This is very interesting.

Does this person have a lawyer?

No.

There's no lawyers here.

Oscar, has anyone in your class or at your school ever made up a game to play on the playground?

Yeah, we do that a lot of times.

Infinity Tag had to be an invention of

your friends.

No, it's a real game.

Yeah.

The PE teacher came up with that one.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It's complete chaos.

But it's also really, really fun.

But it's complete chaos.

Yes, it's chaos.

So, Oscar, what games have people on your playground invented?

We've invented chicken apocalypse.

How does chicken apocalypse work?

Well, someone's the chicken and the chicken chases the people and everyone has like a special move or something.

So the chicken is the one doing the apocalypse.

Yeah.

That's why it's called a chicken apocalypse.

It's sort of getting back at people.

Yeah, it's kind of like that movie, The Birds, that had like a very low budget.

Oh, The Birds 2?

Yeah.

Wait, was The Birds a good movie?

Oh, you mean Birdemic?

Yeah, Birdemic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know about the budget for Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, but he sure made those dollars count.

Yeah.

Got Suzanne Plachette.

I mean, come on.

That's a big name.

Got to spend the real money.

Here's my question for Oscar as well.

May I approach the bench?

What do you think about partner tag as an idea?

What's partner tag?

Well, let's figure it out.

I mean, what would you think it is?

It means that.

So, like, there's two taggers and there's two players?

Yeah, let's say that.

I've never heard of that.

Do you think it sounds like a good game or no?

I mean, it's no chicken apocalypse.

Well, I kind of think it's a weird idea for

like two teams because the taggers are the ones who're chasing.

So it would probably be more fair if there was like more runners,

like more like people who are running away than there was people chasing.

Now, here's another issue.

Like, let's say, I think you're right.

Let's say there are two taggers, but seven runners, okay?

Yeah.

And one tag.

And one tagger tags a runner, and then that runner is it.

Does that new tagger join the original team?

Or I don't understand it, Victor.

No, that, no, that, that, that does not sound fun because the game would end, and I love playing tag for a long time.

Right.

I think the central issue here is that Victor invented a game, and now he's telling everybody else they can't play it.

I mean, if Victor had invented this game and then stress test it the way we just did it with our thought experiment and realized it was a terrible game and was like, what hath I wrought?

I have become the destroyer of worlds.

Stop for all that is good in this world.

Stop playing tag team tag.

That would be one thing, but Victor is still playing it.

I say this.

According to Google, there's bandag tag, sock tag, blob tag, triangle tag, flashlight tag, drop the linguine, footprint tag, and don't get caught with the cookie.

Don't get caught with the cookie.

But Victor can't say, don't play team tag if Victor is going to play team tag.

No one should play Team Tag.

There should be no Team Tag.

Victor is not the Victor, but the loser.

What do you say, Judge Oscar?

Well, I think that

everyone

should forget that Team Tag existed because it's a horrible idea.

Yeah, he should he is design thinking.

What problem is he solving?

That's a good point.

Victor, it was an interesting innovation, but now that you have determined that it is NG for no good, you must lay down your invention and come up with a better one.

And if you are wondering, Drop drop Lungini is taken.

Like making a wooden vacuum cleaner.

You could try doing that.

Oh, by the way, that's impossible.

Maybe it was possible.

No, if you only had wood and some nails, it would be impossible.

Because you couldn't get the electricity you needed.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

Yeah, but sorry, Victor.

You're wrong.

Victor, we love you, but you're wrong.

Here's something from Walter in Adams, New York.

My 16-year-old daughter, Riley, has been listening to Dungeons ⁇ Dragons podcasts lately.

Her birthday is coming up and Riley wants to dungeon master a game that night with me, my wife, our son, and his partner.

But Riley is dismissive of the rules regarding earning experience points to level up.

She says everyone will level up together at the same time.

I think that's bananas.

Though technically allowed by the rules, it doesn't reward effort.

If my character is successful and does more work, I should be able to level up faster than someone else who is unsuccessful or worse, a slacker.

Who's right?

Who is right?

This is very important.

Order in the court!

Thank you very much.

I appreciate that.

Okay, so first of all, I just need to say this is definitely a case of justice delayed, justice denied, because I know that Riley turned 17 on the 22nd of last month.

Happy birthday, Riley.

Happy birthday.

I don't know how this was resolved, but I am going to offer my judgment now, as will Judge Oscar.

Judge Judge Oscar.

So, I don't really like games where everyone like levels up at the same time.

I don't think that's like completely something that should be a thing, but like it's like kind of strange that if every

because if you like did something really well and the other person didn't do like anything as well, and that doesn't really make any sense.

So, yeah, it's sort of it's it's no good for somebody to get ahead who's some Gen X slacker like Ethan Hawk, And I'm specifically talking about the movie Reality Bites, where Ben Stiller acts like he actually likes her and like does stuff for her.

And he loses, and you're supposed to be glad that he lost because he tried.

Jesse, I think you and I are the only two humans who rooted for Ben Stiller in that movie.

When I saw the movie Reality Bites, and Ethan Hawk, of all people,

got to go on a date with Winona Ryder.

She whizzed And she chose him.

I was like, this movie is a tragedy.

And everyone I was with, because I was going out with my friends, because that TV show Friends was based on me and my friends, pretty much.

Wait, the TV show Friends was based off of your friends?

No, I like to believe it's true, but we were all a friend group in New York at that time, the same time that Friends was out and that movie was out.

And I walked out of there.

I'm like, that's terrible.

Why not Ben Steller?

He likes Dr.

Zayas.

And everyone looked at me like I had grown 15 heads on top of my head and it wasn't good.

I will say this.

One time Ethan Hawk was on Bullseye.

He was very nice.

Who's Ethan Hawk?

There we go.

Ah, ah, the younger generation speaks.

Ah,

you may have won reality bites, Ethan Hawk, but

you have not won the hearts and minds of the eight-year-olds of the United States of America.

I don't know what you're saying at all.

I understand that.

Let me tell you what my feeling is on this.

I don't know if this will change your mind, but Dungeons and Dragons is not a competitive game.

It is a cooperative game.

You and your friends pretend to go out through talking.

The dungeon master describes an adventure in a mystical world of dragons and wizards.

And maybe you and your friends, one of you is a fighter, and one of you is a thief and one of you is a wizard or a mage and one of you is an elven swordsperson or whatever.

One of you is a bugbear.

Yeah,

very rarely one would be a bugbear.

We can't play a bugbear.

That's a non-playing monster.

Yeah, I'm playing a bugbear.

All right.

My guy is a bugbear paladin.

Yeah,

he's one of the rare bugbears who wears underwears.

Yeah.

I got your back, Oscar.

Point is, you're not competing against each other.

You're working together to explore a dungeon and have an adventure and kill.

a dragon or defeat a bad guy together.

And in the course of one campaign, one night's worth of play, you may not gain enough experience points to level up to being a super bugbear or a super fighter or a super elven swords person or whatever it is.

And it's technically allowed within the rules to blow off the whole topic of leveling up.

And Riley is the dungeon master.

So does that change your mind?

I think what's important here is that Riley is the boss of the game and her dad wants to tell her how to play.

Yeah, when we put it...

Thank you, Jesse.

When you put it that way.

Yes, let me think.

Thinking noise, thinking noise, thinking noise, thinking noise, thinking noise.

It's weird.

I can see three dots above his head.

Really?

He can see three dots above my head.

Yeah,

thinking noise.

What do you think?

Do you side with the teen or the dad?

I know.

Oscar's competitive nature is now in a war with his natural desire to wreak vengeance upon all dads.

Yeah.

I agree with you.

What?

Wait, dad still?

Yeah, dad.

His daddy.

Dad, my dad's here.

Oh,

okay.

So you're siding with me?

Yeah.

Oh, thanks, buddy.

I side against this dad.

Actually, I think that they should play rock, paper, scissors and see, because I can't decide.

That's fair enough.

Wait, I think I have an idea.

So we can...

I'm going to go out into the video area so you can see me and me and Hodgman are going to have rock, paper, scissors over it.

What do you think?

Oh, they can.

Hodgman can see you right now.

You ready to rock, paper, scissors?

Ready?

Wait, wait, no, I'm not ready.

I have to remember how to play the game.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay.

Ready?

Once.

Rock, paper, scissors.

Did you do scissors?

Oh, ha ha!

Oscar had rock and John had scissors.

But it's best two out of three, isn't it?

Rock smashes scissors.

No, not in this game.

We never saw this.

This was just only best one out of one.

All right.

Then, as final judge.

Daddy wins.

Well,

suddenly Walter in Adams, New York, is your daddy.

Daddy wins!

In a strange episode.

No, this daddy wins.

Well, that daddy always wins.

Jesse Thorne, Bailiff, Daddy Thorne always wins.

But, Oscar, let me ask you for your final judgment.

Riley, this is the daughter.

She wants to play the game on her birthday the way she wants to play it.

Walter is the dad.

He wants to boss his daughter around and tell her how to play the game she loves on her own birthday.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

The

dad.

Riley.

Give Give us a sound.

That's right.

Happy birthday, Riley.

Riley actually had her birthday already.

Walter said that she was going to turn 17 on the night we were supposed to play the Sydney Goldstein Theater in San Francisco.

We missed that show.

We missed your birthday, Riley.

But enjoy this present.

You can play Dungeons and Dragons however you like.

And Walter, Riley just turned 17.

Take it from me.

In about three seconds, she's going to turn 18.

And she's going to be, first of all, run any game she wants for the rest of time and you have no say whatsoever and maybe be out of your house.

So maybe instead of getting into it with her, just enjoy the game that she wants to play and back her up a little.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week.

Here's a case from Simon in Garland, Texas.

I am 16.

My brother Thomas, age 14, plays trombone in his middle school band.

What's a trombone?

A trombone is the kind of horn where they go,

you know what I'm talking about?

It's like a trumpet.

Speaking of that kind of thing, I have a bugle horn that I don't know how to play,

and

I'm only allowed to use it outside because it's so annoying.

That's true.

Well, you'll be interested in the stakes of this particular case.

Okay, let's do this.

The issue is that Thomas and I share a room, and I don't like listening to the very loud trombone while I am in it.

Coincidence!

He believes he should be able to practice while I'm in the room.

I think he should only be allowed to practice when I'm not.

We would like the honorable and glorious magistrate, Judge John Hodgman, to settle our dispute.

Thank you very much, Simon.

I appreciate your flattery of the court.

Oscar, can you imagine if Frankie, your younger sibling, had a bugle horn or a trombone and was always practicing in the room that the two of you share?

That's an easy thing.

I'm easily going to say I think that they should practice like when someone's not in the room.

Yeah, I have to agree with you.

I think that a trombone.

Let me be very, very clear.

Yeah.

I love trombones.

Yeah, John, you were briefly in Real Big Fish, the Ska Band.

I was very, very briefly in Real Big Fish.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Let's get on with the show.

Anyway, John.

Pick it up.

Get on with the show.

And I can tell you that even though those trombones in the band hit the back of my head many a time, I still love the trombones.

I'm a woodwinder.

You know me.

I grew up playing the clarinet.

I don't mess around with the brass section, but even I could tell trombones are just the weird outsiders of the brass section.

They got those long puts and go, womp, womp, womp.

And they're, of course, the ones charged with making the sad sound, the sad trombone.

Womp, womp, wow.

I love a trombone, but Thomas, you got to get that trombone out of your room.

You and your brother share that room.

You can't bring a trombone in there.

Knock, knock, knock.

Gabble sound.

Thomas, are you related to the choo-choo train?

Thomas is related to the choo-choo train.

He is not actually a choo-choo train.

Yeah.

Third cousin once removed.

Yes.

Yes.

And the choo-choo train is blue.

And

why is the blue?

The choo-choo train blue?

That trombone is wildly disruptive.

You cannot go into the room and maybe Simon is hanging out in there and say, I'm playing the trombone now, any more than if you were playing the trombone in your room, that Simon could come in and say, stop playing the trombone, I'm here now.

Whoever is in there first gets to determine the tromboneism of that room for that.

Gavel sound, gavel sound, gavel sound, gavel sound.

So, uh, I think it's kind of mean to just walk in if some, like, if the other kid that's not Thomas the Choo-Choo Train was, uh, like, in the room and then they were, like, reading a book and then Thomas walked in and started playing the trombone, that would be kind of mean.

Yeah, I agree.

If Thomas, technically a tank engine, were in there playing the trombone.

And Simon were to come in and say, get out.

That's not fair either.

Yeah, so wait, I have I have something to say.

This is the, it's final.

I'm ready for it.

Whoever's first.

Right.

I agree with your wisdom.

Whoever is in the room first determines the trombone,

the allowed trombone number in the room.

Yes.

It is either zero or one.

It is a binary choice.

What do you think, other person on Zoom, that I don't know the name of?

That's our producer, Jennifer Marmor.

Yes.

What do you think?

I think that, Judge Oscar Thorne, you've got a really wise ruling.

I think that that's perfect.

Great.

Then settle.

Wait, Dad, what do you think?

Well, I never played a musical instrument when I was a kid, but my friend Jody Scott was a trumpeter, went on to become a semi-professional trumpeter, and he had to practice a certain amount of time every day.

And so I wonder if we could also extend the courtesy that if Thomas needs specific practice times, it's appropriate for him to practice during those times in the room.

Yeah, oh, absolutely.

Wait, I just, I just thought of the most amazing idea.

What's that?

I think this is going to work so well.

It's part of what you think.

So whoever is Thomas and Simon's parents,

they should give them separate rooms.

That would be ideal, for sure.

I mean, you're still going to hear that trombone all through the house, which is why I say I think that both thorns are correct.

That

there should be a fair time to practice that is reserved for Thomas.

to practice his trombone.

And

maybe he should find another place to practice.

Maybe he should go outside.

It is fairly temperate in Garland, Texas.

If you've got a yard, you can practice that in the yard.

No one in this family is going to be safe from this trombone.

I guarantee you that.

I got the back of the head bruises to show it for my time in what was the ska band that I was in?

Real big fish.

Real big fish.

Wait, but if you like fish, then you could get a largemouth bass and slam it on Thomas's head.

Or you could use it to mute the trombone.

That's another option.

Yeah.

But the point is, play the trombone responsibly.

And that does not mean you cannot just grab the room to play it whenever you want.

Set a time to practice in the room or in another space so that you get your tromboning in and Simon gets all the quiet time.

Here's a case from Jackson in Minnesota.

My children are in a dispute about the rules of a staring contest.

My son will make a quick hand motion toward my daughter, causing her to flinch, thereby losing the contest.

Oh, wow.

like that dude my friends you do that sometimes in staring contests and it is so annoying i think that this is final this is going to be a short thing 100 you are not allowed to surprise the other player i i absolutely agree

great here's something from maya in hastings on hudson my name is maya and i'm 12.

i bring the case against my father ken he agreed to pay me twenty dollars an hour to destroy old taxes in our shredder recently I worked for an hour and shredded one accordion file full of taxes.

I asked for payment, but my father refused.

He said, I'll only get paid once I finish the whole job.

Please order my father to pay me every time I finish shredding for the day, instead of once I finish shredding every accordion file.

Thank you.

So what's the kid side one?

So here's the deal.

What's the kid thinking?

Because

I'm going with the kid either way.

Imagine this scenario.

You know what a paper shredder is, Oscar?

No.

It's a machine.

Look, I've got one here.

Let me show you.

This is a paper shredder.

This is some junk mail that was sent to our daughter who lives in a different place now.

And I know it's junk mail, so it's fine.

But imagine it's like a very confidential material, like a secret.

I've discovered the secret of making a wooden vacuum cleaner, and I don't want anyone in the world to know it.

And I wrote it down here.

This is what I do.

I shred it.

And this shredder has a bunch of blades in it, and it shreds it into little pieces of paper like this.

And no one can ever read the secret of how to make a wooden vacuum cleaner again.

But wait, you know how to make a wooden vacuum cleaner.

Apparently.

So he claims.

Of course I do, but the secret now dies with me because I only wrote it down in one place.

And you put it through the shredder.

So you shred paper in it.

Like, in this case, imagine your dad asked you to shred a bunch of important papers and was going to pay you $20 an hour.

You worked for an hour, got halfway done, asked for $20,

and your dad said to you, no, you get paid when the job is done.

Finish the job, then I'll pay you for however long you're going to get.

Oh, I get it.

I get it.

So who's right?

Who's wrong?

Okay, so I think

that the dad is right that they should get paid like after the job's done because imagine this the person gives you the money in the middle of it and then they're like i'm done thank you for the money that could be like a trick, and that would not be nice.

And I just think it's not right that someone would get paid in the middle of the job.

But if you have a job like scooping ice cream and you're being paid $15 an hour or whatever,

you get paid at the end of the week or every two weeks.

Really?

For all the hours that you worked.

You're not being paid once all of the ice cream is gone.

I,

well,

I'm still sticking with what I said.

All right.

The dad's right.

Yeah.

We're going to move on with the show.

I'm with Oscar.

If somebody was shredding my papers, I would pay them for it when they were done shredding my papers.

Well, yeah, but I mean, the fact is, unless Maya is misrepresenting the situation, she was being offered an hourly job.

Yeah, we'll sound.

Hello.

Gavel sound.

Gavel sound.

Okay, can I take a little break?

I'm kind of hungry.

Yeah, you want to go grab a snack?

Okay, I'll be right back.

Great.

While Judge Oscar is getting a snack, I'll step in just to say, so Maya, I find in your favor if that was your agreement, but

that's my sound.

But I will warn you, $20 an hour to shred is a good job.

Like, I like shredding and I love accordion files.

And Hastings on Hudson is not far from here.

I might pay $10 an hour.

I might pay Ken $20 an hour to come and shred those taxes.

So don't overthink your way out of this gig.

Keep it while you, you know, it's nice work while you can get it.

Let's take a quick break so that Oscar can eat a mamba.

We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn Everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from clearing the docket to discuss what we have upcoming.

What's going on with you?

Well, Jesse, as we record this, in exactly 34 minutes, I am going to be having a phone call.

It is actually, I don't want to brag, a conference call between me, David Reese, and a third party who I might describe as a stakeholder in our secret project.

Wow.

And at the conclusion of this conference call, I am 79% certain in,

I'm not even going to say what business we're talking about because my secret project might be a, might be a new kind of sandwich.

But I am 7, even in this business, I project with 79% confidence that by next week, I will be able to tell you, A, what the secret project is, and B, how you can enjoy it, I hope.

So please stay tuned to this information as it develops.

Now, completely unconnected in any way, Dick Town, the animated show that David Reese and I co-created, the first season of which is now on Hulu, is still on Hulu at bit.ly slash D-I-C-K-T-O-W-N.

If you haven't checked it out, check it out.

And hey, if you'd like to go to IMDb, I know no one goes to IMDB anymore, but if you want to go to IMDB or wherever you rate your favorite programs and want to give it a, and you liked it and you wanted to give it a nice review, that sure would be nice.

If you want to spread the word about season one of Dick Town for no reason whatsoever, that would be nice too.

Bit.ly slash D-I-C-K-T-O-W-N.

I'll also mention that we have officially announced the comedy lineup for the Solid Sound Festival with Wilco

this Memorial Day in May.

It's a big weekend festival of Wilco performances, other great musical performances, and as well,

I and Gene Gray will co-host, as always, the comedy stage, which will feature returning comedian River Butcher, Naguin Farsad from Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, and as well, Nick Offerman.

So if you're able to get near North Adams, Massachusetts, a Memorial Day in May, go check it out at solidsoundfest.com.

That's solidsoundfest.com.

Jesse, what's going on with you?

We've got some great interviews this week on my NPR show Bullseye with Jesse Thorne that I hope everyone will check out.

One is one that I did with Charlie Day from, of course, film and also the longest-running sitcom in television history, I think, at this point.

It's always sunny in Philadelphia, which is.

That's on the FX network, right?

It is.

So you can watch that on Hulu.

Right.

FX on Hulu, which is where

Dick Town is hosted as well.

Bit.ly slash Dick Town.

Always be plugging.

Go on.

Charlie Day is fantastic.

I recommend both of them.

Charlie Day, unlike his wild-eyed and insane idiots that he plays on television, he is a very bright, engaged, wonderful conversationalist and a real sweet guy.

And I really enjoyed getting to talk to him because I've loved his work so much for so long.

And also this week,

the brilliant, hilarious, and good at singing, just overall too talented Kristen Bell is on Bullseye, a great interview conducted by my pal Helen Zaltzmann, who who is also one of the co-hosts of the Veronica Mars Investigations Podcast.

That's awesome.

That's an incredible conversation, I'm sure.

I can't wait to hear it.

And Judge Hodgman next week or this coming week, it might even be this week by the time our listeners listen to this.

Yeah, go on.

Big Boy from Outcast and Sleepy Brown are on the show.

Whoa.

And totally rules.

If you want to hear them reminiscing about the time they spent all living in sleeping bags in their friend's mom's basement, they all just lived together in this one house that they called the dungeon because it was so dark, grungy, and full of spiders.

And

just laughing and goofing around, man.

It was really fun.

If you want to hear about the shaved, bald heads that Andre and Big Boy had when they auditioned to get their deal with Organized Noise, which Sleepy Brown is one of the three producers in, man, it's just a really fun interview.

So I hope everybody will go subscribe to Bullseye so they'll get that when it comes out.

Some of the best conversations ever recorded on digital audio tape, I got to say.

Oh, that's very kind of you.

And Kristen Bell,

I forgot that she was a singer.

And you know what kind of singer she is?

Gifted.

A good at singing singer.

Yeah, she's so good at it.

Give me a break, Kristen Bell.

Shall we get back to the docket?

Let's do it.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Here's a letter from Christian.

It says, my son asked I share his letter to you with no alterations.

It follows.

Dear Judge John Hodgman, my name is Alex and I am eight years old and I want a YouTube channel.

But my mom and dad disagree, so we want you to decide.

My channel will have videos with bottle flipping, dice stacking, and ping-pong trick shots.

The channels that inspire me are...

I don't want to hear what channels inspire you, Alex.

I'm sorry.

I'm not going to have you stealth market your favorite YouTube channels on our podcast.

They're well-known stunts and tricks channels.

Yeah,

I'm just going to use this opportunity to buzz market this one YouTube video I watched about a cassette player that's a cassette changer that goes around in a circle like a slide projector.

I like that.

Oh man, I loved it.

Anyway, go watch that.

Just type in cassette player that goes around in a circle like a paper.

And

I do kind of watch YouTube sometimes

every once in a while.

Breaking news.

Does your dad know this?

Yes, he does.

Okay.

Did you recognize some of those channels on there?

No, I did not recognize any of them.

Okay.

Well, it's not my job to advertise for them.

Yes.

Nice tryout.

It's not.

It's not.

Alex says, I want my channel to be like theirs.

And implied there is that he probably wants it to have videos about cassette players,

cassette players that go around.

Here are the reasons why I think I should have a YouTube channel.

It lets you embrace your creativity for cool videos.

Some of the most popular YouTube channels are made by children.

It is a fun and easy way to make money.

Well, it's no shredding taxes, but okay.

You're spreading your knowledge.

Arguably.

Later in your channel, you get a bronze, silver, and gold plaque for the number of subscribers you get.

I love a plaque.

And I already have a camera, someone who can encourage me, hashtag my dog.

and I already have some videos from my channel.

And those are my reasons why I think I should have a YouTube channel.

Please help me with my problems.

Sincerely, Alex.

P.S.

My dad will include samples of my video ideas.

Jesse, my dog Sprocket helps me with some samples of my videos.

All right.

This is an audio podcast, but I could not help but want to share with you, Oscar and Jesse, and you, Jennifer Marmor, the videos that Alex shared via his dad.

Okay.

So without further ado, play 38 first.

Let's do this.

Let's watch it.

Yes!

Six cups.

Whoa.

That

was.

It was pretty amazing.

Yeah, that was awesome.

Can you describe what he did, Oscar?

So he got all the dice in like a line and he went and he got them all.

Yeah, he swung his cup back and forth like a yellow sort of Yahtzee dice rolling cup.

Uh-huh.

And then he picked it up and they all stacked.

Yeah, the dice are all in a stack, six dice, one on top of the other.

I think that that must be what he was referring to with his dice stacking videos proposal.

Now I'm going to ask you to look at video 34.

This video that was shared by Alex shows his bottle flipping skills.

He's going to flip the bottle not once, but twice.

We look forward to your reaction.

Whoa.

Whoa!

So what did he do, Oscar?

So he put the bottle on like a foam thing.

So he flipped, so there was like a foam thing, like a foam roller, like a foam cylinder that was maybe three feet tall.

Uh-huh.

He flicked it and then it and it went completely on top of it.

Yeah, so first he flipped a bottle up into the air and it landed on top of the foam roller perfectly.

Then what it is.

And that was like amazing.

And then something crazy happened.

He kicked the foam roller and it went and the bottle went spinning and then it fell right

like right on like perfectly.

Perfectly on the floor.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

That was bottle flipping.

This one represents a ping-pong trick shot.

And I encourage you to watch to the end.

He will dab, but wait till the very end of the dab, please.

Okay, so what we see as we start the video is he's on his knees on the landing of his carpeted stairs, and he has a ping-pong ball in his hand, and there are two small wooden boards and a red solo cup.

So he bounced it off of the board.

Oh, my.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, my goodness.

What did he just do, Austin?

So, wait.

Oh, and he got the damn.

Oh, and then he hit his hand when he dammed.

He hit his hand on the railing, but Alex could not be happier, even though he is clearly in pain at the very end.

So he threw the ball on one of the wooden boards.

It bounced back.

It went bounce, bounce, bounce into the cup, and then it bounced out of the cup.

He bounced it off of one board.

into the cup.

Then he bounced it off that same board, up into the air, off of the other board that's maybe six steps up.

That bounced up off of that board, hit the landing, bounced once, landed back in the cup.

It was amazing.

Then he dabbed and hit his hand on the railing, which was also pretty great.

And yet his glory was undeterred.

Yeah.

One last one for you.

We promised you that he has someone to support him.

Hashtag his dog.

Sprocket helps out in this video.

Okay, so

we've got the video loaded up and we're seeing Sprocket.

So it's paused at the beginning, but we see Sprocket and and oh my gosh, Sprocket is exactly the dog you want to pander to us, right, Oscar?

Yeah.

Why do we love Sprocket, Os?

Because it's a scruff.

Because it's a scruff.

Yes, and it has a cute eyeballs.

He does have cute eyeballs.

Okay, let's just watch it.

Okay.

So Sprocket is.

Sprocket put the ball into the cup.

Sprocket knocked the ball out of Alex's hand into the cup, thus thus completing the ping-pong trit shot and the four videos that were sent.

Now, Oscar, this decision is in your hands.

Alex wants a YouTube channel.

Okay, this is very important.

If you order that his parents set up a YouTube channel for him, then people will get to see these videos.

If you order that he does not have a YouTube channel, no one will ever see these videos.

Only you, your dad, me, and Jennifer Marmor, and obviously Alex and his parents will get to enjoy these videos.

What is your thinking?

I think that the dog should have the YouTube channel.

Whoa.

This is the kind of outside-of-the-box thinking we go to the younger generation for.

Yes.

The dog should have the YouTube channel.

So sorry, Alex.

Sorry, their parents, but the dog's going to have a YouTube channel.

We're done with the show.

Booyah.

Wait, wait.

Oscar just stabbed when he hit his hand on the railing.

No, I didn't.

No, I didn't.

Judge Oscar.

Judge Oscar, are you making the gavel mouth sound because you want to wrap this up so you can get to your tea time at the golf course?

Oscar, what are we doing next?

I don't know what we're doing next.

You and I, once we're done making the show, what are we going to go do?

We're going to get tacos.

Yeah, we're going to go get tacos.

So Oscar's pretty pumped on the tacos.

I'm pumped.

All right.

Here's what I have to say.

I'm so pumped.

I'm so pumped.

Here's what I have to say.

I agree with Judge Oscar, and I agree with your mom and dad.

I asked Christian why

he and Alex's mom felt that he should not have a YouTube channel.

Was too young, his only argument.

Oh.

And Christian and Teresa wrote back, too young was a simplification.

YouTube requires you to be 13 before you can create an account.

So we are working from the premise that we would have to create and manage the account for him if we were to rule in his favor.

But their concerns are otherwise.

We are worried about him deriving his self-worth via likes and subscriber numbers.

Well, worry about him being a human today.

Okay.

We are worried about the trolls who will inevitably engage with his content and also being a human.

We are worried about the loss of privacy, also being a human today, not just for Alex, but for our family as he exposes our lives more to the outside world.

I am going to say that since YouTube has a regulation that you cannot create a channel if you are younger than 13, though they do encourage the workaround that they will allow your parents to set it up for you, Alex, your parents don't want to run this YouTube channel for you.

They've got other stuff to do.

They've got to feed you.

Devil sound.

Yes, sir.

Devil sound.

Okay.

I think

having a YouTube channel sounds kind of hard.

And

you could,

I think maybe you could get...

Oh, wait, this is an amazing idea.

What if you got a private YouTube channel for your family?

I'm with Oscar.

A private YouTube channel for your family, I think, is a perfectly reasonable way to go.

And you can send them to

your relatives and stuff.

And Alex, you're only going to get better with your trick shots and your bottle flips and your sprocket tricks and everything else.

For when you turn 13, you'll be able to launch a YouTube channel if you still want to do it with a high level of skill and also with a maturity and a dedication of putting out content regularly, which is the only way that you are going to be able to get the kinds of likes and subscribes and bell rings and whatever that you are seeking right now.

But for now, it is good to do the thing first and foremost for your own satisfaction rather than for the likes and subscribes.

And as well, your parents don't want to be your social media managers.

They're your parents.

They got other stuff to do.

Like, like doing work and like my dad doing this show.

Yeah, exactly.

This is stuff that he's got to do.

So that said, I'm going to give you, Alex, I'm going to give you some good news.

Since Oscar and I meted out the bad news, your mom and dad did give us permission to post these videos to our social media, which means we get the likes and subscribes.

But also, your incredible videos get out to the world, and I think you'll be happy when they do.

Check the show page, maximumfund.org, and our Instagram, and any other place that we get permission to post these.

We will give you full credit, Alex, and we'll tell the world, wait just a short, I know it seems like a million years before you turn 13, but I guarantee you it's going to be two seconds, and then the world will be waiting for you in Sprocket at that time.

By the time you're a teenager, you might not even be into bottle flips.

You might have moved on to Spirit Halloween stores.

Good point.

Yeah, we'll put you in touch with Aiden, our Spirit Halloween video, YouTube Maven,

and he can give you some tips and tricks when the time comes.

Our docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor is Valerie Moffat.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at Judge Hodgman.

You have Twitter?

Yeah, I have Twitter.

I like to make little jokes there.

Really?

Yeah.

You know what, Jesse?

I think your jokes are really good on Twitter.

Thank you, John.

Yeah, your jokes are horrible in person.

Yeah,

that's John's point here.

That's not my point.

Okay, we're done.

Don't stick on me headphones.

Make sure to hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO.

Check out the Maximum Fun subreddit.

That's at maximumfun.reddit.com.

I know we have a kitchen episode coming up with Kenji Lopez alt that we're looking for cases for.

Anything related to food, to cooking, to sous videing, to emulsifying.

Got any taco disputes?

Send them in.

Hodgman at maximumfund.org, as well as maximumfund.org slash jjho.

Our special guest judge this week has been Oscar Thorne, age eight.

As you can tell, I'm opposed to encouraging eight-year-olds to publicly seek the approbation of others.

I don't think we could have done it without Oscar because clearly,

now that he's wandered out of the studio, we're breaking down.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFun.org.

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