Live Upside Down or Die

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm summertime, fun-time guest bailiff Monty Belmonte from WRSI Radio in Northampton, Massachusetts, sitting in for Jesse Thorne.

We are in chambers this week to clear the docket.

And now, the man who loves summer vacation so much, he abandoned me in Massachusetts to live in vacation land, the Honorable Judge John Hodgman.

I did not abandon you, Monty.

You are, yes, you did.

Oh, my goodness.

No,

you are near and dear to me in my heart, just not in my Commonwealth anymore.

You know what I mean?

True.

But

even though I have left

Western Massachusetts for the most part, I have two things to say.

One,

we're going to do a holiday show at the Shea in Turner's Falls, right?

Yes, let's come up with a date soon.

So long as precautions allow it, we will do a live show at the Shea in December.

And two, yeah, I'm not in Massachusetts anymore, but am I not still in New England, our larger region?

Is there any other place in the world?

Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island.

That's it.

Right, Joel?

What about Connecticut?

Couldn't hear you there, Joel.

What's going on?

What about Connecticut?

No, I'm not getting it.

Something wrong here at WERU.

I know it's not New York.

Yeah.

Something wrong here at WERU.org, the Solar Power Studios, where I remain for one final last holiday weekend.

And it's wonderful to be joined here by Joel Band at WERU, Jennifer Marmer there in Los Angeles, two quarters, one half of the J Squad, including me, John Hodgman, and honorary J squad member, Mr.

Monty Gel Monty.

I've changed your last name.

Wait,

it was like J Squad and Lil Monty or something like that.

That's right.

So the J Squad and Lil Monty.

All right.

Welcome back.

Welcome back, Lil Monty, the J Squad.

Summertime, fun time bailiff over there in Northampton, Massachusetts.

Although, although it is Labor Day weekend or the start thereof here in Maine, which means we're in our fourth week of autumn here in Maine.

Yeah.

Temperatures have dropped precipitously.

I am wearing my puffy vest for this special all-New England edition of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

And even though it's terrible for Mike, I'm not taking it off.

Listen to it.

That's my puffy vest.

You know what I mean?

Joel, are you wearing your longer shorts yet?

Is it cold enough yet to wear your longer shorts?

I'm still wearing shorts.

Regular shorts.

Where did you park today, Joel?

Over by the solar power

panels.

Why did you park over by the solar panels today?

There's a little warmer there.

There's a little known thing called reflective solar power.

Uh-huh.

You're going to get, you mean you're powering your Kia off of the solar panels?

I'm hoping to, yeah.

All right, good luck with you.

Thanks.

You know, Monty, this is the last time I'll be recording here at WERU in Orlando, Maine, for a while.

And Joel brought me a little gift, and I'm going to open it on the air.

Oh, it's a little, you guys can see me.

It's a little blue.

It's a little blue gift bag.

Joel, this is very nice of you.

I didn't get you anything.

You got me that great bolo tie.

Yeah, I know.

That was, that's a curse more than a gift.

That was cool.

It's quite heavy, Joel.

It's in a beautiful blue bag with some blue tissue paper, a gift bag.

What could it be?

Oh, it's...

It's a cast iron lobster.

They're hangers.

You put them on a wall and hang your bolo tie on it.

It's a two cast iron lobsters.

Something you can take back

to the city.

This is fantastic.

This is fantastic.

Thank you very much, Joel.

I could even make a bolo tie out of this cast iron lobster.

It would be about a quarter as heavy as the lapis lazuli bolo tie that we got from Jerome in Indiana that I'm trying to foist off on Lyle Lovett.

By the way, Lyle Lovett.

You're a wonderful guy.

You came to the book event that we did in Austin, Texas back in 2019 when travel was possible.

You know I adore you.

You are the locust of one of the most magical moments in my life when that elevator opened and I saw you there after having just mentioned your name before.

Did you know that, Monty, that I summoned Lyle Lovett like a ghost?

Yes, I knew it even before it was in the book.

Yeah, I said it three times, and then I checked into a hotel and the elevator opened, and there was Lyle Lovett.

But he hasn't emailed me back about that bolo tie.

I still got it, Lyle.

I'm holding it in trust for you.

Monty, how are things in Northampton?

They're great.

We're only in our first week of autumn, even though Labor Day hasn't happened yet.

So we're always a couple weeks behind you when it comes to winter-related stuff, and a couple weeks ahead when it comes to vegetables and fruits.

Let me move this cast iron lobster away.

It's very, oh, it's it's very heavy.

There we go.

And let's get into this docket.

It is all New England themed.

At least all of them, all the listeners are writing from New England.

And again, I'm talking about Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island, the five states.

Is that five?

Right.

The five states of New England.

Where's the first one from, Monty?

The first one is a letter from Rachel from Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, which for those who aren't from here might not know that that, it's actually Boston.

Part of Boston.

Dear judge, my husband Bracken has issues with the way our two children, ages six and eight, eat meals.

In particular, they struggle with the use of basic utensils and quite frequently use their hands to shovel items such as spaghetti, beans and rice, or ramen into their mouths.

This disgusts my husband.

He sighs, rolls his eyes, and even critiques the way my son uses a napkin.

We place the utensils on a napkin.

Okay.

When my son lifts the napkin to his face to wipe it clean, he also brings the utensils with the napkin, potentially risking spearing himself in the face.

I argue that over time, our children will instinctively learn basic etiquette.

So long as they make a half-hearted attempt to clean up the aftermath, I think they can eat however they choose.

Please order my husband to stop fuming during dinner and let them eat with their hands.

First of all, I want to give congratulations to Rachel's husband, Bracken, for having a cool name.

Yeah.

Bracken, of course, is

in English, that's what they call ferns.

Oh.

Release the Bracken.

It's a cool name.

Yeah, Bracken is releasing his fuming anger at his children, six and eight, for shoveling spaghetti into their mouths with their hands.

And let me understand this.

The problem with the napkins is that they put the utensil on the napkin and the child doesn't use the utensil, pulls up the napkin to wipe off their face and risks spearing themselves.

I guess that's because instead of a fork or a knife, they're using a spear.

That's a problem right there.

I'm not sure about that.

Monty,

you have three

kids.

Yes.

Ages, what are their ages now?

16, 14, and 8.

They grow up so fast.

It's crazy.

So your youngest, may I use their name on the program?

You may.

Your youngest is Pax,

a wonderful child.

Does he shove spaghetti into his mouth with his hands or what?

That would not be allowed at the dinner table at our household, especially because we're Italian-American and, you know, there's a right way to eat spaghetti.

And that is not it.

Right.

What you do is you take your fork and you pick up the spaghetti and you twirl it in your palm until it creates a kind of bolus of spaghetti.

Right into the center of your palm, yes.

Right.

A lot of people don't know that.

Yeah, yeah.

Right into the center of your palm.

what's the right what's the correct way to eat spaghetti in your house monty belmonty well you can you don't need to do the whole fancy spoon thing you know if you can do that if you want but really it's just roll the spaghetti on a fork enter into your mouth you know not so much that you can't fit it all in there and uh yeah just try to be a human being about it what about your other children your older sons like uh did you do any like uh actual silverware training with them about how to use

silverware

you know what i mean like i'm how to cut with a knife how to hold a fork

cutting with a knife, yes.

That can be tricky, especially if you're, say, cutting steak.

There's a, there's a, you know, a better way to do it.

And when you try to watch them figure that out on their own, especially if you're not eating all that much red meat, a little guidance goes a long way.

But the fork and spoon thing, I think they learned by observing and adopted it pretty quickly on their own.

Jennifer Marr, what are you going to teach your child?

You're going to teach your child anything, or you're just going to let them figure it out on their own.

Well, he's picked up the spoon pretty well.

Like, he knows how to use the spoon.

He's 29 years old, right?

Yeah.

He's a little baby.

He's almost two years old.

And recently, he's, you know, kind of understood the fork.

You know, we've given it to him before, and he kinda he would just throw it.

But recently, he's understood the use of it.

And I think that he thinks it's fun.

It's like a new device for him to use.

So he's getting pretty good at the fork.

I need to help help him a little bit spearing the food sometimes, but he enjoys using it.

Now it's just the stopping him from throwing his entire plate on the floor when he decides that he's done.

That's the etiquette that I need to teach him.

That's the universal symbol of I'm done.

Yeah.

Just like Thor

throwing the glass down on the floor.

Mmm, delicious.

More, please.

Joel Mann, you're a parent of an adult child.

Yes, I am.

And she lives in another country paris paris france france right not connecticut and she

i don't even what sorry

not

i can't joel are you there anyway so what age did you teach her how to use nutcrackers to eat her lobster because that's all you eat right once once she was done with the sippy cup it was right to the european etiquette really

did you teach her how to how to use a knife and a fork yes wow i admire you i tied her shoes too taught her how to do that well that's good too i just you know boy, I don't even know if we ever taught our kids how to tie their shoes.

There are so many new alternatives.

There are so many slip-on alternatives.

And it just seemed tiresome.

We never did any.

I mean,

I think that in our hearts, our feeling about etiquette is

it exists not to adhere to some random rule that is in a book, but you apply etiquette and politeness in order to make other people more comfortable.

And therefore, for us, it was more the etiquette that was more meaningful was say thank you, wait for other people to eat, sit down, be patient, enjoy each other's company as much as possible.

I mean, you know, with kids, you're kind of

herding them into this behavior a little bit.

There's going to be a lot of deviance, but you're trying to, you're trying to model this kind of behavior.

But in terms of, it was never important to us to instruct our kids

how to use a knife and fork in any kind of socially acceptable way.

And do you know what, Monty?

I regret it.

I regret it.

Because they're really, really smart kids who are wonderful in the world, but they eat like barbarians.

Like they're literally stabbing, like grabbing the fork and stabbing the middle of the food.

And then just, they just, it's a mess.

It's a mess.

I got to teach these kids.

One of them's an adult now.

She left the house.

She's out there in the world stabbing the food in the middle with a fist.

That's no good.

You got to learn.

You got to learn how to follow the rules before you break the rules.

I regret it.

Well, I'll say, as somebody who's had family meals with your family many, many times, I've only been mildly offended by how barbaric your children are.

Well, you know, I hope that we can have a family dinner again sometime.

I'm glad you didn't notice.

I think they're good companions at the dinner table, but

they should learn the right way.

But there's one thing I can say about my kids

is that they're not shoving spaghetti into their mouth with their hands.

And Rachel, and Rachel, I'm sorry.

Six is borderline.

Eight, no.

You should not be shoving spaghetti into your mouth with your hands.

Your husband Bracken, I think, is,

I appreciate his frustration.

It's time to use some utensils.

However, you figure out how to use those utensils, it's time, at least for the eight-year-old.

What do you think, Monty?

Am I wrong?

No, my youngest is eight, and we would be mortified even in the most informal of circumstances if he grabbed a fistful of spaghetti at the dinner table.

He may be doing it on his own when we're not all sitting together.

Oh, doing it on its own.

Forget it.

I do that.

Yeah.

Open the fridge in the middle of the night, handful of spaghetti into the mouth.

No one sees me.

Look, totally fine.

Yeah, totally.

You think I'm not, you know,

I was just alone in Brooklyn, New York for a couple of nights because I had to go back to do some secret project with David Reese for a couple of nights.

And I was all by myself.

You think I wasn't sitting there watching John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness and shoveling ramen into my mouth with my hands?

One of those things is true.

Sadly, it was watching John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness, which is not a great movie.

Oh.

Yeah.

Do what you want when you're alone, but when you're in company, shoving food into your mouth with your hands, whether you are eight or twenty-eight,

will make other people feel uncomfortable, including Bracken, the dad.

And I think it's time.

Sorry, Rachel from Jamaica Plain.

I think it's time.

Unless it's food that's designed to be shoved in with your hands.

Let's make that

clear.

Of course.

I lived in India for four months, and people frequently eat with their hands there.

So then you learn to eat with your hands to be in polite company.

Of course.

For that, you know, there's definitely the right time to do it, but spaghetti is not the right time.

Spaghetti is not the right time to eat with your hands.

Spaghetti is now a time.

Let's move on.

Here's a case from Gary in Cape Elizabeth, Maine.

Cape Elizabeth, Maine.

Where's that, Joel?

Outside of Portland.

Outside of Portland.

Got it.

I need your help here, he writes.

I prefer to eat a big, messy hamburger with a knife and fork.

Here we go.

This allows me to eat without getting cheese and stuff down the front of my chest.

Gross.

However, my wife finds this practice barbaric, embarrassing, and disgusting, and claims people that we're eating with are horrified.

She feels a hamburger is to be eaten with the hands.

Many of today's excellent burgers are enormous and very messy.

Please, Judge Hodgman, send me a ruling at your earliest convenience.

Signed, clean and neat in Cape Elizabeth, Maine.

Well, Gary, I received this letter on December 11th, 2019.

So this is my earliest convenience.

I'm sorry.

Sorry that

you have been fighting with your loved one for so long about this, and you have not known exactly how to eat your hamburger.

Joel, what do you think about this one?

If it's really big, cut it in half.

Cut it in half.

Yeah.

And that's it, though.

Hands after that.

Hands after that.

All right.

Joel's weighed in.

What do you think, Monty?

I second.

You second that.

You second that motion?

Let's put it to a vote.

Jennifer Marmor, aye or nay.

Cut it in half, hands after that, but otherwise, no knife and fork.

If you want to use a knife and fork, just do it.

Who cares?

Yeah, you're right, Jennifer Marmor.

Jennifer Marmor gets it.

There was a time when I wasn't eating any bread,

and therefore I had to use a knife and a fork with a burger, unless I asked them to serve it without a bun, which is probably the more, which I would do from time to time when I realized that's more responsible.

But sometimes you just didn't.

You just got it.

And I would deconstruct that burger.

Sometimes even when I'm eating bread, I deconstruct the burger because I like eating the component parts separately.

Get a little taste of burger, whatever that burger is made out of, maybe it's a plant-based protein, who knows?

A little taste of onion, a little glob of cheese, mix it up, eat it whatever.

Now

I can visually see that Monty is grossed out now by me.

I wouldn't say grossed out, but a little bit offended.

A little bit offended.

You very much disagree.

Yeah.

Hamburger should be with the hands.

Hamburger buns are like gloves.

Anything that comes in a bun is like a glove.

You can then pick it up with your hands.

So if we're talking about spaghetti, like we were just talking about, there's no bun.

But if you had two halves of a bun and you wanted to scoop some spaghetti up in that and then eat it, that's okay because buns are gloves.

You're talking about a spaghetti burger?

Sure.

It's been done, I'm sure.

It's been done a million times.

I know.

Spaghetti hero.

Yeah.

Spaghetti hoagie.

Here's the thing.

Let's say you're going to the fishnet in Blue Hill.

Joel.

Yeah.

You know those little hamburgers, right?

Yep.

They're about the size of a palm.

A human palm.

They're not.

All right.

You're just nodding at me now.

Okay, I got you.

You don't have to give anything back to me.

It's fine.

It's like a little slider.

Yeah.

It's a small, it's a hand-sized hamburger.

If you were to cut that in half or use a knife and fork with that when you're sitting at a plastic picnic table outside of the fishnet, I would say that's a little, that's not necessary.

Not good.

But if you go to a restaurant where they serve you a big old burger, yeah, I'm with Gary.

I don't want to see his cheese and stuff down in the front of his chest.

You can eat that with a knife and fork, right, Jennifer?

Absolutely.

And like, I've had burgers before that are just, there's so much going on in the burger, and I will cut it in half, like Joel suggests.

Right.

But then I'll take a bite and like everything kind of falls apart.

Everything falls apart.

It doesn't stay together like one of those fishnet slider hamburgers.

Right, exactly.

By the way, how do we land on the word sliders as an acceptable description for tiny hamburgers?

Because they slide right down your gullet.

Yeah.

That's probably right.

I was just talking to David Reese about sliders because we were working on our secret project.

And he's like, and they call them sliders because they slide right down your mouth, right?

I'm like, that's no way they call them sliders.

They call them sliders because they slide out your butt.

That was what I was always told.

Oh, my God.

Maybe I'm wrong.

If you get them from White Castle, you're right.

That's what what White Castle sliders were called sliders for, as far as I know.

And White Castle is one of the originators of the tiny little burger, and they were tiny garbage burgers

that you ate late at night after revelry, and they were not good for your digestion, and therefore they were called sliders.

And then Jerry O'Connell said, maybe I'll star in a TV show based on these hamburgers, but it's about alternate dimensions.

That's history.

But no, it's gross.

Hey, everybody with gourmet sliders in the world, just call them small burgers because you're grossing me out.

Even if it's the other thing, even if it just slides down your throat, that's disgusting.

This feels gross to me.

Here's my ruling.

Eat your hamburger however you want and don't care what people say or how they look at you.

A.

B,

it is absolutely acceptable to eat a burger with a knife and a fork, particularly if the knife and fork are made of metal and your plate is made of china or ceramic.

If you're in a restaurant, then go for it.

I think you're absolutely in the clear.

But if it's a plastic knife and fork and a paper plate, some people are going to give you some side-eye for that.

Joel Mann is giving me side-eye right now.

Doesn't like this one.

But that's okay.

You do your own thing if you want.

Sometimes you have to absorb side-eye in this life.

But in a restaurant setting, I'm saying that the way David Reese says it, in a restaurant setting,

go ahead, Gary.

You go ahead, Gary, and Cape Elizabeth.

Why are you ordering hamburgers at a place called fishnet i'm not ordering a hamburger at fishnet i'm ordering fried clams ah the fried clams there are better than the fried clams at bagadoo's lunch joel do you believe me yes or no no you're wrong sorry this is getting contentious on our last day you gave me two cast iron lobsters you can use it as an anchor too i guess this is the time of i guess this is the time of year in maine where the year-round mainers start giving me subtle hints to get out.

Yeah, Joel is waving goodbye to me through the glass.

Got it.

Take your cast iron lobsters and get out, Flatlander.

Message received.

Go back to Connecticut or whatever.

What?

What?

I couldn't hear you.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partner.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

This week, we're clear in the docket, and it's all New England cases.

It's New England style.

That means it's creamy, not tomato-based.

That's correct.

And that is the correct style.

Absolutely.

Here's a case from Samantha in Redding, Massachusetts.

All right.

We recently moved to Redding.

From Schenectady, New York.

I have no problem with the Boston accent, but I take issue with the ridiculous ways Massachusettsians, question mark, pronounce some of the local place names, like Redding and Woburn.

The most egregious example is the town of Bill Rica.

Well, let's go back for a second, because Woburn is spelled W-O-B-U-R-N.

Yes.

And Redding is spelled like the word reading.

Right, but it's Redding.

like Reading, England.

Yeah.

And Woburn, I presume, is also named for a town in England, probably.

But it is spelled like you would say, Woburn.

But let's hear about Bill Rica.

B-I-L-L-E-R-I-C-A.

Continue reading.

When I first saw the word, I thought, Balerica.

What a melodious-sounding name for a town.

It's true.

Imagine my surprise when my friend told me the locals say, Bill Rica.

I didn't believe her at first since she's from New Hampshire.

Notorious liars.

If you rule in my favor, I request that you order the Commonwealth to decree that Bill Rica shall be pronounced Balerica, because Bill Rica sounds stupid.

Bill Rica.

The town that sounds like the name of your contractor, Bill Rica.

If your contractor's name is Erica, this is where you send the bill to.

You bill Erica.

Bill Erica.

Balerica.

You know, look, having grown up in Brookline, I grew up with the names of these towns, Worcester, Woburn, Bill Rica, Athole.

Athol.

Athol.

Who are you calling Athol?

Braintree.

Like, you know, and it took me years to stop and think about how gross Braintree was.

Braintree.

What about Dedham?

Dedim.

Deadham is good, but Braintree isn't, it's pronounced Braintree.

It's not pronounced like...

Brintree or whatever.

It's Braintree.

And I never would even notice how weird these were, but I always noticed how weird Bill Rica was.

I was always like, why is that town named Bill Ricca?

So I looked it up.

And you know what the answer is?

Colonialism.

It's named after a town in England.

Of course.

It's named after the town Bill Rickey.

Bill Rickey

in England in the borough of Baseldon, Essex.

It lies within the London Basin and constitutes a commuter town 25 miles east of the central London.

But you you know why it's named Bill Rickey?

No.

Nobody knows.

Nobody knows for sure.

The speculated origins is that it comes from Bellarica, which is a medieval Latin word meaning a dye house or a tan house.

That sounds like a good work.

Another one is that it might come from Villa Erica,

like a villa named after Erika, which suggests, according to Wikipedia, a Romano-British origin, which kind of, like Billa Billerica, that kind of, you could kind of hear that.

And then also, the suggestion is it might be named for Billers, which is a traditional name for watercress.

I don't know.

It's lost to time.

Did you grow up with anybody calling it Billerica?

Like, I knew a lot of people didn't call it Bill Rica.

They put an extra syllable in there and would call it Billerica.

Oh, no, I never heard that before.

Billerica.

Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't.

Billerica.

Yeah, it's B-I-L-E-R-I-C-A, Billerica.

Billerica sounds beautiful.

It sounds like a fantasy land.

It sounds like the.

Fantasy land for people named Bill.

Yeah, no, it sounds like it could be the Key of Liberty, the first in the Billerica cycle of novels or something like that.

But The Key of Liberty was actually written, it's a critique.

It was actually written by William Manning, who's from Bill Rica.

He owns the oldest house in Bill Rica.

Well, he doesn't now because he's dead.

He died in 1814.

He wrote The Key of Liberty, a critique of federalist policies.

Anyway, I'm sorry, Samantha.

I will not let you, you of Schenectady no less,

start coming into

our Commonwealth trying to normalize our weird historic names.

How dare you, Schenectady?

One time, my then-girlfriend, now wife, and whole human being in her own right, both periods of time, was studying in York, England.

And she was living with a British guy, and he was so excited because he was going to New York for the very first time.

And she said, Great, where will you be staying?

Thinking he would say, like, the East Village or,

you know, Brooklyn or Upper West Side.

And he said, it's an amazing part of New York called Schenectady.

I was just going to say, if you look at it, it does look like that would be a beautiful word, Shenectady.

Schenectady.

And she was like, I have two things to tell you.

One, it's Schenectady.

And two, it's Schenectady.

Let's move on.

We have a case here from Jeffrey in Vermont.

My wife and I have a recurring dispute over this.

Is Vermont the upside-down state or is it New Hampshire?

All right, everybody, go look at your maps.

Check out the states of New England, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire.

And

you'll notice that Vermont and New Hampshire sit right next to each other, bound and divided by the Connecticut River, and one looks like an upside-down version of the other.

Is that not true, Monty?

Will you verify this?

Verified.

They look like the yin and the yang, or they are spooning, or however you want to describe it.

Yeah.

And there is a yin and yang to Vermont and New Hampshire, too, because culturally they are a little bit opposites, too, right?

I mean, Vermont, there's more that unites them than divides them.

I mean, it's still New England.

It's still a bunch of white people.

But there's also a cultural history of libertarianism and anti-authoritarianism and anti-taxpaying in New Hampshire and conservatism in New Hampshire, whereas Vermont is mostly known for its Bernie Sanders fish and marijuana love.

Plus, Ben and Jerry's.

And Ben and Jerry's as well.

And it is the case that because Vermont does have an income tax as opposed to New Hampshire and values infrastructure in a way New Hampshire doesn't, you know when you have crossed from a Vermont road into a New Hampshire road because all of a sudden your axles break because it is bad.

The beautiful funded smooth asphalt road turns into a rutted mess.

And P.J.

O'Rourke is there to shoot BBs into your tires.

Joel, what do you think?

Which one is upside down and which one is right side up?

I always thought New Hampshire was upside down.

Right.

Do you think anyone in New Hampshire would say differently?

Proudly upside down, wouldn't you say?

Yes, yeah.

It says on the flag, live upside down or die.

Exactly.

Don't tread on these roads.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, Maine is vacation land.

It's like magical sounding, wonderful place.

And then you go to New Hampshire and they like threaten you with their slogan.

Live free or die.

Live free or die.

You have no choice.

Right.

Yeah, no.

New Hampshire is upside down.

Sorry.

I think no one in New Hampshire would say differently.

They're aggro.

They're aggro about it.

They want to be out of the step with the rest of the world.

And one can, we know some people who live in New Hampshire and they're lovely people.

We can admire them.

I had a great show in New Hampshire, in Lebanon, New Hampshire, at the Lebanon Opera House or whatever it was called.

Love New Hampshire.

Love its teeny, tiny novelty coastline.

I will never go to your beaches.

It takes about five seconds

to go from the bottom of the coast to the top of the coast of New Hampshire.

New Hampshire, it's upside down.

It's weird to

surreptitiously buy fireworks if you need them last minute and you happen to live in one of the other New England states.

One time, so, okay, one time I drove from Massachusetts into Brattleboro, Vermont,

and then directly over the bridge to New Hampshire.

Three states in one day, Monty.

You can do that in New England.

Very easily done.

Back when I used to be on television, I was terrified that I would lose my job as a spokesperson for a major computer company because it had completely changed my life in so many indescribable ways.

And I knew that the guy who had done the advertisements for Dell,

you remember that guy?

You're going to get a Dell?

He got fired from that ad campaign because he got caught with a minute amount of

marijuana in New York City at a time when that was not decriminalized.

And even so, it was a minute amount.

And he wasn't even prosecuted.

But Dell said, no, you can no longer have this job.

And that was something that terrified me, that I was going to let down my family.

Not that I have any truck with marijuana.

That's not the issue, but that I would get caught doing anything bad.

But then I forgot all about my wariness for a minute because I went to New Hampshire and in a mad moment, I bought a bunch of fireworks.

And as we were driving back, I realized, oh no, what if I get stopped with these fireworks in Massachusetts or Vermont?

I'm going to get fired from my job.

So I made Jonathan Colton put them in his trunk.

as he followed me because we took two cars.

And he's like, no one, you are not going to get stopped.

No one's going to get stopped with these fireworks.

No one cares.

They're not going to search your car and get you fired from your job.

And I said, just please carry these fireworks back for me.

And so we drove back through Vermont.

And sure enough, we got pulled over.

Jonathan was following me.

We got pulled over.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe my total rule following paranoia paid off.

And the police officer came up to me after talking to Jonathan and said, are you waiting for this guy?

And I said, no, you know what?

I'm not.

Goodbye.

I drove away from him.

I think he got a ticket.

I paid for it.

I paid for it.

I don't know why they didn't stop me.

But I was like, did they search the car for fireworks?

And Jonathan's like, no, they did not.

That's what happens when you go to Upside Downland, New Hampshire.

You just go, you go a little bananas.

That's all.

Have fun over there in New Hampshire, everybody.

Here's a case from Neil in Boston.

My brother Michael and I are both from Burlington, Mass.

But Mike and his wife and son recently moved to Albany.

Now Mike makes the outrageous claim that all of upstate New York east of the Hudson River is part of New England.

Wow.

I told him no.

The western border of New England is coterminous with the western borders of the state of Vermont and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and a very vague, blurry line somewhere between Hartford and the western border of, is that pronounced Connecticut?

It's pronounced Connecticut.

Ah, yeah,

I know that word.

I'm like, yeah, I've heard that word before.

Here's the thing.

I acknowledge Connecticut.

Joel?

Yes, Judge.

I acknowledge Connecticut.

Thank you.

Monty,

what's your stake stake in Connecticut, Joel?

Insurance companies.

Okay.

Monty, I acknowledge Connecticut.

I acknowledge New Haven and their pizza.

Yeah, I acknowledge New Haven.

I acknowledge Yorkside Pizza, the best pizza in New Haven.

Cannot wait for your letters.

Cannot wait for your letters.

I acknowledge Patricia's restaurant, the best breakfast sandwich in New Haven.

No one will dispute that, Monty.

I acknowledge Mecha Noodle Bar, and that's Mecha Noodle Bar, not Mecha Noodle Bar, for their incredible noodles and dumplings and bao buns at their location in New Haven and I believe

Fairfield, I don't know where.

Joel?

Yes, Judge.

I acknowledge the Connecticut lobster roll.

Okay.

You know the difference, Monty?

I've never heard of such a thing.

Well, a lobster roll, as commonly known and popularized here in Maine, the home of most of the lobsters in the world,

is lobster salad, that is to say, pieces of lobster with mayonnaise, in a toasted New England-style hot dog bun.

And by toasted, that means you put some butter on it and you grill it on both sides like you're making a grilled cheese.

In Connecticut, Same deal with the bun, but the lobster is warm and steeped in butter, no mayonnaise.

It's a warm lobster roll.

And you know what it is?

I'll tell you a story.

One time,

my friend Amy Radford from Massachusetts was working in a restaurant, I think on the Cape.

And the owner of the restaurant was training the wait staff, and he said, If anybody asks what we use in the food, it's not butter.

It's whorl.

It's a butter substitute, and it's goddamn delicious.

That's my terrible Boston accent.

I apologize.

Terrible.

I could never do a New England accent.

But in any case, a Connecticut lobster roll is goddamn delicious.

Sorry, god or whatever damn delicious to be consistent with the show and my personal beliefs.

So Connecticut is a state,

and I love my nutmeggers,

and it is definitely part of New England.

I don't like Mike.

Mike saying that the land between the Hudson River and the western borders of Vermont, Massachusetts, and Connecticut is New England, obviously wrong.

But I don't like Mike's brother Neil either for suggesting that somehow western Connecticut is not part of New England.

This is the thing.

I can poop on Connecticut for funds, but when it comes down to it, I'm going to defend this region.

Connecticut is part of New England.

And the Hudson Valley east of the Hudson in New York is not part of New England.

Correct, Monty, or incorrect?

Correct.

Right.

Neil, you really going to try to lock out Danbury?

You're going to try to lock out my people in Kent?

You're going to try to lock out my people up there in Salisbury and Canaan?

What about Lichfield?

You're going to tell me Litchfield isn't part of New England?

Neil, come on, get over it.

Welcome back, Connecticut.

Stanford, you're on the bubble.

Honestly, you're on the bubble, Stanford.

That's I'm not sure about.

But Norwalk, you're in.

Bridgeport, of course.

Macedonia Brooks State Park, you got it.

Pond Mountain Natural Area, welcome aboard.

Sharon, definitely Connecticut.

You're all part of New England, you and your crazy lobster rolls.

But get out of here, Poughkeepsie.

Clinton Corners, Stanfordville, Bengal, Salt Point, Milan, New York, Pleasant Plains.

You're in New York, upstate New York.

Enjoy it.

Let's take a quick break then.

When we come back, more New England geography.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Here's something from Christine in Abington, Massachusetts.

As you know, one of Massachusetts most notable regions is Cape Cod, which protrudes from the southeastern corner of the state like a weird arm bent at the elbow.

My boyfriend insists that Cape Cod is an island,

as it is cut off from the mainland by a canal, and you must cross a bridge to get to it.

I argue that Cape Cod is exactly as the name says, a cape.

If you must use another term, it would be a peninsula, not an island.

They don't call it Cod Island.

Please tell us, Judge Hodgman, who is right in this debate.

I've been avoiding this one for a long time, Monty.

I've been avoiding this one for a long time because

we had a case fairly recently between two guys who were having an argument over whether an artificial island is actually an island.

That is to say, a landmass that is created by building a canal separating it from the mainland.

Does that count as an island?

Or can we only count as islands?

islands that have formed naturally without human intervention.

And I went to the Wikipedia, as I often do, to resolve disputes and also put myself to sleep at night

as I surf from page to page, trying never to go backwards, learning new and different and interesting things, and former professional hockey players from Bill Ricke and such.

And I discovered, I went to the list of artificial islands in the world, and there are lots of them, and they are inhabited, and they are undoubtedly islands.

Artificial islands are real islands.

I said this this with great, great

confidence until weeks and weeks and weeks ago, not as long ago as Gary wrote me, but weeks and weeks and weeks ago, Christine wrote in from Abington Mass, Colin MaBluff.

It is true that Cape Cod is separated from the mainland by a canal that was dug in 1916 to aid transportation.

between Cape Cod Bay and Buzzards Bay on either side of the Cape that had existed there.

This canal separated from the mainland,

what we know as Cape Cod,

forever dividing Sagamore Beach from the town of Sandwich and their famed sandwich police.

Thank you, everyone who's ever sent me a photo of a police car from Sandwich that says sandwich police on it.

I get excited every time.

They are truly the ones that I should have called first to ask if a hot dog is a sandwich.

How many times do you

the sandwich police get a call from some Judge John Hodgman listener or other wag asking, yeah, real quick question, is a hot dog a sandwich?

Don't call them.

Don't call them.

This canal is only traversed by two bridges, the Sagamore Bridge and the Bourne Bridge.

But otherwise, there is, I'm looking at the map, there is nothing,

there is nothing connecting these two landmasses.

Cape Cod is surrounded on all sides by water.

So I put it to you, each of you, J-Squad and Lil Monty.

Lil Monty, island or Cape?

It's hard.

Technically, an island, but actually a Cape.

You love Cape Cod.

I do.

You don't want it to be an island.

I love the bent arm thing.

I love that.

Like when I describe to people where I'm going on the Cape, I use the bent arm thing.

Like we're staying in, you know, in the armpit.

Yarmouth, which is the the tricep, Falmouth is the armpit.

Right.

Chatham is the weenus.

Chatham is the what?

The weenus, which is like the sort of the fleshy part of your bent elbow.

They call that a weenus.

I never knew that word.

That's where I'm starting my Wikipedia hunt tonight.

Joel Mann.

Yes, judge.

Island or no?

I say it's a cape.

You say it's a cape, and what's the difference?

Well, I think the canal had a lot to do with it because it was connected at one point.

Yes, of course.

Yeah.

But I have already ruled in this courtroom that an artificially made island caused by digging a canal, it forms an artificial island.

Well, they should change the name to Cape Island.

Cape Island.

Cod Island.

Andrew Ashton, who's an associate scientist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, which is there in Cape Cod

on the

armpit side,

whose specialty is coastal geomorphology,

quotes, says, I quote,

I would have to agree that after construction of the canal, water now surrounds the Cape on all sides, thereby making it an island of human construction, period, end quote.

Boom.

Oh my God.

Or whatever.

Devastated.

I am too.

I got to go with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution as one of the best institutions.

It was a Cape.

There's no question about that.

And a Cape, by the way, is a point of land that juts out into the sea.

A peninsula is a bigger Cape.

A peninsula is usually bigger and wider.

And it can jut out into other things.

Cape juts out into the sea, which Cape Cod

did

and still does, but it is technically

an island.

How are you dealing with this, Monty?

Your beloved Cape Cod?

I'm sad about it.

I mean, I feel hurt.

It was named when it was a Cape.

Correct.

And then the canal came much later.

So I don't think there's any need to even consider renaming it.

No, no, no.

Europe, no, no.

Probably correct.

Well, here's to you, Cod Island.

Here's the thing I'm sad about, though, Monty.

We've heard from from or paid homage to Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, even Connecticut.

But we had no letters from Rhode Island that I could find.

The last one we had from Rhode Island

was a woman who wanted to buy a haunted house and her husband didn't want it.

But they were moving to Vermont.

So what's going on, Rhode Island?

Come on, little Rhodie.

I know I got listeners there.

I want to do an all-Rhode Island episode sometime in the future.

So if you're in Rhode Island, figure out a dispute you have with someone.

No mafia, please.

We don't need any of that kind of dispute.

Rhode Island.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But if you got beef with a fellow Lil Rhodian over how someone makes their stuffies or whatever, write in to me at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

Hey, Monty, we got a couple of other letters that I'm going to read to you now.

Okay.

Natalie wrote in, I don't know where Natalie was writing from, but this is a note about Maine.

My father is an alumnus of Taft, the Taft School, a boarding school in Connecticut.

That's, you know, who was a famous alumni from there, Monty?

William Howard Taft.

No, Trey Anastasio.

Trey Anastasio, a fish.

Plus the guy who, the lead singer from Counting Crows and Jason Blum,

who's the producer of Get Out, and also Peter Berg, the actor and director who

I shared a flight with one time ago and told me he was going to make a movie of the novel Dune and seemed to have no idea that a movie of the novel Dune had ever been made before.

And I had to break it to him.

Anyway,

my father is an alumnus of Taft, a boarding school in Connecticut, which is in New England.

I agree with you now.

All right, Natalie, you're right.

Connecticut's in New England.

He was a longtime camper and counselor at Camp Winona in Maine, named for Winona Judd.

Very famous camp, right, Joel?

Yeah.

Right.

She gave a lot of money to that camp.

They have a good horse team there called the Winona Riders.

Ah.

Shut it down.

That's the end of the podcast.

Doesn't get better than that.

One day in 1965, after paddling to a sandy beach on Moose Lake,

he lost his gold-class ring, his Taft School class ring.

Fancy school.

Fancy school.

Gold ring.

He asked his friends to help find it, but no luck.

He never replaced it.

A thousand years later, it was found by a hobbit.

Wow, this is weird.

The hobbit gradually grew obsessed with the ring and lived under the earth.

No, fast forward to 53 years later to 2018, a metal detectorist in Maine found the class ring.

And guess what?

They didn't sell it, but instead mailed it to Taft, the current head of school, matched the year on the ring to the engraved initials, and sent it to my dad in California.

And here's how she ends the letter.

Gosh, people in Maine are nice.

How about that?

Gosh, people in Maine are nice, Joel.

Right.

Yeah, waving goodbye to me again.

During tourist season, maybe.

I would say that, gosh, people in Maine are nice would be a misleading motto for the state of Maine.

But it's often true that, you know, while we have a, we, you, Joel, and others have a flinty, a reputation for a flinty nature here in Maine, that people are kinder than they often seem to be, including I cut some incredible cast iron lobsters out of this deal.

Thank you, Maine.

Thank you, Joel, for everything that you've given me.

But I would also credit two points here, which is that most metal detectorists are nice.

There are very few mean ones.

And also,

it's not necessarily that the person who found this gold ring was nice, but I think people in Maine respect curses.

If you find a weird gold ring,

You don't want to keep that thing.

It's probably got a ghost finger in it.

Oh, wait a minute.

Monty, just over the transom, we got got a last-minute entry from Jim in Rhode Island.

I got a letter from Jim today, right before recording.

And here's what Jim has to say, Monty.

I started listening to the Judge John Hodgen podcast at the beginning of the COVID epidemic and a few months ago completed the entire back catalog.

Wow, thank you.

Since then, I've gotten my friends into the podcast, but I sometimes worry I talk about it too much.

Don't worry about it, Jim.

Tell your friends in Little Rhodey to listen.

We need more Rhode Islanders.

Once a month, I get together with friends to play games, catch up, and listen to vinyl records.

I would like to bring a vinyl record of one of your podcasts.

There are a few companies online that do this, but the most respectable one insists I receive permission from the original owner of the content.

So I am humbly asking your permission to have one record made for this non-commercial purpose.

Now,

that's from Jim in Rhode Island.

And Monty, my intention

was to say, of course,

you may have one made for private use.

You know what I mean?

That's not going to hurt me in any way.

But

then I went back to the subject of this email.

And the subject of the email is, need your permission to create prank.

What?

That's...

What do you mean, prank?

How is it like you write this sweet letter, but then you reveal your dark intentions?

You want want to use this vinyl record for a prank?

What are you going to do?

Mix and match my words such that I'm

saying something mean and use it to call the sandwich police or something?

I don't know.

What do you think, Monty?

It could mix you with some other music?

Like a hip-hop MC?

I don't know what prank you got in mind with this record album that you want to have made, Jim.

I'm a little suspicious.

What do you think, Jennifer Marmor?

As a representative of the Maximum Fun Network, should I give Jim permission or no to use my voice for a prank?

Jennifer Marmer's thinking it over.

It's a tough one.

It's a tough one, right?

Because it's, you know,

the settled law on the show that it's not fun for everyone,

or if it's not fun for everyone, then it's no fun at all.

Yeah.

And is this prank going to be fun for everyone?

Yeah, what is, I don't know the nature of the prank.

I thought you were just wanting to play it for your friends in your little vinyl game circle, but you've got something else in mind.

Monty, what do you think?

I'm imagining that he's showing up to their vinyl circle, and it's like he's got Ladies of the Canyon by Joni Mitchell, and then he slides out a vinyl record, and nobody's paying so much attention, and he queues it up, and then all of a sudden the gavel rings, and it is not Ladies of the Canyon.

Right.

It is the Judge John Hodgman podcast on vinyl.

And I think everyone would have fun with that.

Joel, what do you think?

I would proceed cautiously.

Yeah.

Here's what I'm going to say.

Jim noted in his letter also that the section of the podcast can only be 10 minutes long because that's as long, I guess it's some really high-grade vinyl or something, really wide grooves, because he can only pick a 10-minute long section to put on the vinyl record per side.

So, Jim, I am giving you permission to use your letter only for the vinyl.

That's about 10 minutes.

We probably talked for about five or six minutes about this.

Only your section, and you must use it verbatim.

You may not mix it or remix it.

Just me reading your letter, Monty, Jennifer, and Joel and I debating it, and my finally saying to all of your friends,

y'all got pranked.

Woo!

We're watching you through a camera right now.

Not really, not really.

We're not watching you through a camera.

It's just a record.

Did you ever have that little floppy vinyl record that would sing your name on your birthday from an alien named Zoom who lived on the moon?

I did not.

It terrified me, and it felt like a prank.

And I would have believed that there was a camera watching me because it felt so specific as a young child that this character named Zoom who lived on the moon and came down to Earth just to sing you this tune, hey, Chris, which is my real name,

it's your birthday.

Today, I was like, this alien on this record knows far too much about me.

That is not a good vinyl prank.

Jim, you can't use any of what Monty just said.

You have to

stopped your vinyl after you got pranked.

You're not entitled to this.

Hey, Monty, happy birthday to you, Chris.

Jennifer Marmer, happy birthday from the moon.

Joel Mann, happy birthday from the moon.

It's been such a pleasure to spend so much time here at WERU over the summer, and I hope to see you again soon.

Thank you.

Good to see you.

Thank you truly, everybody.

WERU has been such a good friend to this show, and it's such a terrific radio station.

And I hope that you will go check it out at weru.org.

And Monty, of course, is such a good friend to me personally.

Not that you're not, Joel.

You're my, I mean, we're, we live in Maine, so we see each other.

But Monty,

you have been my dear friend for so long, and your radio station has been such a boon companion to me as well.

WRSI, The River 93.9 there in Northampton, Massachusetts, also available at WRSI.com.

Yes.

Because it is a commercial radio station.

A week of mornings with Monty is the podcast.

You can hear all of the best segments of that week once a week.

Get it wherever you get your podcast.

It's a lot of fun to listen to.

I enjoyed listening to earlier this summer to the annals of your trip to Cape Cod, Monty.

I hope you get back to that island.

That's the island of Cape Cod.

Yeah.

And, of course, Jennifer Marmer over there at maximumfund.org.

Thank you very much for producing this show, as always.

I look forward to seeing you virtually again soon, but from Brooklyn

instead of Maine.

Sounds good.

All right, the docket is clear.

That is it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor is Valley Moffat.

Our engineer, as we said, in Maine is Joel Mann, program and operations manager at WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine.

Listen to WERU at WERU.org.

Follow Joel on Instagram.

His handle is the main man.

Follow us on Twitter.

I'm at Hodgman, H-O-D-G-M-A-N.

Monty is at Monty Belmonty.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohodgman tweets, hashtag jjho.

And check out the maximum fund subreddit to discuss this episode and all of your favorite maximum fun episodes.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org slash jjho or email me at hodgman at maximum fund.org.

Make sure you do this, little roadie.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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