This Illustrated Man

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me, as always, is the man who almost never fails to wear a hat indoors when recording this podcast.

It's Judge John Hodgman.

I, Jesse Thorne, am wearing a brand new extinct hockey hat.

I wasn't going to mention it because, after all, this is a non-visual medium.

Right.

But you can see me, and I can see you, and I can see Jennifer Marmor all the way across the country there in Los Angeles, California, due to the magic and curse of teleconferencing.

I am wearing a brand new extinct hockey hat.

Can you guess the team?

I'll lean in.

I'm leaning into my camera.

The Nighthawks?

Nighthawks from where, Jesse Thorne?

Did you ever follow this is minor league hockey?

Wow, yeah, well,

minor league hockey isn't as deep as it could be.

I remember that for a while there was a team called the that played in the Cow Palace in San Francisco.

I've never heard of it.

No, this is the New Haven Nighthawks of New Haven, Connecticut.

Oh, that's fun.

Look, we get no money from this, but I've got this hat from a company called VintageHockey.com.

They've got a lot of extinct hockey teams.

It's hard for me not to believe

that this company was founded because of my love of the Hartford Whalers.

This feels like it's got my DNA.

I mean,

I'm not going to begrudge them.

I'm not going to to begrudge them.

But you'd like to hear any other plausible explanation.

It just seems like after I've been podcasting and writing about the great sport of extinct hockey for the past five years,

that all of a sudden this company just sprouts up with a New Haven Nighthawks hat.

I'm also wearing a sweatshirt from them.

This is from the Jarros Bois or something.

It's some really obscure Quebec team.

And just so that you know that the JJ Ho Boys can't be bought,

this sweatshirt is really, really comfy, but their printing technology on the Heather Gray sweatshirt is not very good.

Stick to the hats, vintage hockey.

Yeah.

Well, let's get into the docket.

Here's a case from Joe from St.

Louis.

I have a dispute with my wife.

I would very much like to get the words party animal tattooed on my stomach.

My wife is against this.

I would understand if this were my first tattoo, but I'm fairly tattooed already, including a Christmas tattoo and a Fozzie Bear tattoo.

So this is really a brand extension.

Yeah.

She says that I am not a party animal.

I am a rather quiet homebody, 36 years old with five children.

That is why I feel this tattoo would be so fun.

You know what I like, Jesse?

I like this guy.

I like Joe's phrasing.

I would very much like to get the words party animal.

Like, if I didn't know that Joe was 36 years old with five children in St.

Louis, I would think that he was a British schoolchild.

Pardon me, I would very much like.

Might I please have a party animal tattoo along with my Gruel?

I would very much like to get the words party animal tattooed on

my stomach, head mistress.

Yes.

Have you any party animal tattoos or any Turkish delight?

Once again, our English accents are impeccable.

Jesse, I forget.

Have you any tattoos?

Yeah, I do have a tattoo.

Tell me about it.

I forget.

I have a tattoo on my

inner forearm

that says, who shall say?

And it is the opening line

of a wonderful William Carlos Williams poem called Dance Russ

that is basically,

people should look it up on poetry.org, but it is essentially William Carlos Williams describing himself getting up before everyone else in his house is up and going to his office and standing naked in front of the mirror and doing a funny dance.

And

then he says, A Dance Russ.

A Dants Russ, exactly.

And in the end, he says,

who shall say I am not the happy genius of my household?

Oh,

WCW comes in again with another

banger.

I got it maybe

five years ago, seven years ago, when I was really trying to affirm in myself

the feeling that it was

okay and, in fact, good to be myself and to enjoy myself within myself, essentially.

You know what I hear?

What's that?

It feels good to be yourself.

Yeah.

That's what I hear.

As in the hit picture book by Teresa Thorne.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

That's probably where that comes from.

Jesse, everyone knows that I have a small

tattoo of a shining diamond on my right shoulder that I got at the age of 19 in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, when it was illegal to get tattooed anywhere in New England but New Hampshire, of course.

It is a reference to a figure from a story by Jorge Luis Borges called Death and the Compass, because I was and am very pretentious.

But

I asked Joe for a catalog of all of his tattoos because he said he was fairly tattooed.

Yeah.

And I wanted to get a sense of what this illustrated man had going on already before we contemplate

ruling him a party animal tattoo.

So are you ready for this, Jesse?

You ready for the catalog?

All right.

Write it down.

Joe's got a Fazzy Bear on top of his right foot.

A Cairo Greek symbol on the back of his right calf.

Merry Christmas themed tattoo on my left front thigh.

That's worryingly vague.

My wife's.

I feel like

it's probably like a scene from Jingle All the Way.

Yeah, right.

Maybe it's the poster from Silent Night Deadly Night.

Terrifying

Christmas finger slasher.

My daughter really loves the movie Santa Jaws.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the chimney.

Okay, my wife's name in the center of my chest.

There are two birds on either side of my wife's name on my chest.

My upper back has a crest design that one of my brothers created.

My three brothers and I have the same tattoo.

I have a Bible verse text tattooed around my left wrist.

It's a portion of 2 Corinthians.

My grace is sufficient for you.

I have Hebrew lettering on the inside of both of my inner biceps.

My right arm has the Hebrew word,

the unpronounceable, Y-H-W-H.

My left arm has the Hebrew word for Jesus, Yeshua.

My left shoulder has the head of a lion.

Beneath the lion head is a grouping of snakes with their heads cut off.

Not sure if that means the heads are somewhere else on his body or just not there at all.

Of course, I have the outline of Missouri with the St.

Louis Cardinals logo inside it on the back of my left arm.

My right shoulder has a cross in a sort of stained glass style.

Beneath the cross is a family of deer in a landscape scene.

That's 13 13 tattoos.

Should he go for Lucky 14 party animal on his stomach?

I find myself wondering how Jesus feels about hanging out with Fozzie Bear.

Are you kidding me?

It's such a beautiful Bible verse.

Like, what a moving

the idea that

the grace of God should be enough is such a beautiful sentiment to me.

I mean, like, I also walk a walk,

Can't be putting down Fozzie Bear under any circumstances.

And why has there not been a Muppet movie based on the Bible?

We got Muppets a Christmas Carol, Muppets, Treasure Island.

Why not the Muppetest Story Ever Told?

That'd be pretty good.

I'll leave you guys to cast that one in the Reddit.

R/slash/maximum fun.

I'll look for it there.

I don't know, Jesse.

It seems to me like this canvas is pretty full and variegated and silly and profound.

It's not as though

there is either this is an untouched clean slate of body that is going to be sullied with a party animal tattoo.

Nor is it a tattoo array that has a certain

aesthetic theme that party animal is going to violate.

I mean, once, as you put it out, once you have Jesus and Fozzie hanging together, I mean, waka-waka indeed, yeah.

Cats and dogs living together.

I mean, I feel like it's just nice that Joe has even brought it up, never mind to us, but to his wife.

He could probably get party animal tattooed on his stomach, and she would be hard-pressed to notice.

There's so much wackadoo camouflage all over his body, anyway.

I guess I feel like you should go for it, Joe.

I mean, here's the thing:

have a good conversation with your wife.

It's clear to me that, at least as far as your epidermis goes, you are absolutely a party animal.

But I don't know how many of these 13

you got, let's say, before you got married.

Or

how many of these your wife has already said

okay with when she really wasn't okay with it.

It's your body ultimately.

And I'm going to say you can go ahead and do it.

I don't think that your wife should have veto power over your belly tattoo.

But

since it's clear that you are something of a tattoo party animal, I'm encouraging you as an officer of the court to sit down.

And now that you've listed out all your tattoos, just like

before you go and commit to this, talk through all 13 with your wife and get her feedback on all of them.

Just talk through them with her.

Get a little ranking.

Maybe not a ranking.

Yeah, just be like, you know, I never talked to you about the lion head that is hovering over a group of snakes with no heads.

What do you think of that?

What's your

what's your what's your capsule review of that tattoo?

And if you're Joe's wife, you may absolutely email me your review, your one-sentence review of each of these tattoos.

I'd be very curious to know your take on them.

But ultimately, so long as there is that reckoning and that communication, it's your body.

If you can find a place to fit it in, perhaps the belly is the only place.

Go for it, party animal.

You should feel free to also do a hashtag DickTown anywhere you like.

Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

But yes, I rule in favor of Joe in this case.

John, I had a friend in college named Dan Grayson who spent a lot of time thinking about what the perfect worst tattoo would be.

And, you know, Dan wasn't a humorist, but I really admired what he came up with,

which was a full-body back tattoo of

Garfield eating lasagna.

You know, the way he kind of dislocates his mouth like a snake to eat and hinges his jaw.

Yeah.

And then in

old English, you know, classic sort of car club style lettering over the top, it would say Garfield the tat.

Here's something from Alan.

My wife and I want to mount a writing surface on the wall of our kitchen for groceries, reminders, and the like.

She'd like a chalkboard.

I want a dry erase board.

Touching chalk makes my skin crawl, and I get goosebumps if I think about it too hard.

She told me that my chalk phobia, her word, is irrational and that I should get over it.

She also said that nothing says I give up like a dry erase board where a chalkboard should be.

Not a lot of charm to a dry erase board.

No.

Not a lot of charm.

But I wonder if the charm of a chalkboard was not exhausted in 2008.

What about chalkboard paint?

You ever experiment with some chalkboard paint in your house?

Chalkboard paint was a very fun idea on Pinterest

some time ago.

Yeah.

But no, so the answer is no.

I have not ever chalkboard painted anything.

Chalkboard refrigerator surface was a thing that was a thing for a while.

Yeah.

Do you have anything that you write anything down on in your in your kitchen?

We do have a big whiteboard.

I have to say,

you know, I agree that the aesthetics of a chalkboard are much more appealing.

And I actually think it's fun to write on the wall.

And for that reason, I like the idea of chalkboard paint as much as it might have been, you know an interior design trend of

you know some time ago right but I have this I have the same issue I also hate writing with chalk and hate chalkboards because it grosses me out yeah I also don't like popsicle sticks oh I mean it's not gonna keep me away from a popsicle but

what part of the popsicle stick

Do you dislike?

What's the aspect of popsicle stickness that gives you the

feeling?

Texture, the surface texture.

Yeah, yeah, I can feel that now on my tongue.

You're really flirting with a lot of tongue splinters there.

No matter how smooth they get them, you know that they're there.

They were waiting for you in there.

Yeah, I would say, I mean, especially,

now that I'm thinking about chalk, I like chalkboards too.

I have no problem with them, but I'm getting that feeling just thinking about it that I get whenever I think about a clarinet.

I played clarinet for many years.

And now just thinking about a clarinet makes my teeth

hurt and vibrate-y and gives my nerves a tingle.

Because one bad honk on a clarinet, I'm boucher, and you'll never forget it.

That'll go straight to your skull.

It's just like getting an electric shock in your two front teeth.

And I would say this.

I mean, yeah, dry erase board,

that's kind of a sad dorm room door, you know, style.

But I don't like Alan's wife.

talking down his chalk aversion as an irrational phobia.

I mean, even if it were a phobia as opposed to just a reasonable aversion, which I think it is, even if we're as serious as a phobia, you know, phobias are not strictly rational.

I know that I'm probably not going to fall into the lagoon at 20,000 leagues under the sea at Disney World because that attraction doesn't exist anymore.

But does that mean I am not legitimately sub-mechanophobic?

That's a real thing, Jesse.

Sub-mechanophobia.

Fear of submerged man-made objects.

I was going to make up a word, which was aqua-robophobia, which is a little bit more fun because I don't like robots underwater.

That's what I'm afraid of.

But

I was researching some phobias and came across a word that finally describes me.

Submecanophobia.

It's a real thing.

Just like there's halitophobia, which I'm sure you know Jesse is fear of bad breath.

Didn't know about that one.

Globophobia, fear of balloons.

Oikophobia, fear of household appliances.

Can you imagine, Jesse, being afraid of your Brevel smart oven?

That would be very sad.

No.

But I can imagine being afraid of balloons because someone in my household has that issue.

Really?

Yeah, for sure.

I'm not, I mean, these are, these are, I'm not making fun of these phobias.

I'm saying

there are things, specific things that people truly

just can't hack.

Paganophobia, fear of beards,

Hedenophobia, fear of obtaining pleasure.

I mean, all of those phobias, those are the ones that are just tattooed on my left thigh.

There are lots of them.

I know for me, having kids who are neurodivergent in various ways has helped me understand, you know, living in a house with them has helped me understand particularly the broad array of sensory differences between people.

And,

you know, I can't say that it's easy to deal with, that other people's sensory experiences can be so different from yours.

And I can't say that it is like fun and chill.

Like sometimes you wish that you could have a chalkboard.

Right.

But it grosses out someone who lives in your house and like really upsets them.

And that upset is real.

And,

you know,

these are often things that can be addressed, you know, that you can help someone through these things.

You know, I mean, that's what occupational therapy is for sometimes.

But

they also have to be accommodated.

Yeah.

Sometimes you don't need to go through a course of occupational therapy and immersion treatment so that you can have a chalkboard to write eggs on.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, I was thinking about this, Jesse, and Alan,

this is a judgment podcast.

This is not a problem-solving podcast.

But once in a while, every now and then,

the doctor dances and everyone lives.

I've got an answer for you that I want you to explore.

And I think you're going to be excited about it because I know I am.

I got to thinking about

Ron Moore and David Icke's reimagination of Battlestar Galactica.

At the CNC, in the middle of that big ship Galactica, they had a big piece of glass that they rode on.

And that's how they knew where they were in space.

Because space is a glass 2D surface.

Everyone knows this.

And I did some poking around.

I found my way to, and again, I don't know why.

We don't get any money from Quartet.

Quartet,

the premier makers of whiteboards right there in Skokie, Illinois, from

the usual suspects.

It's a real company.

They make real whiteboards, but they also make glass boards.

And are you sitting down, Alan?

Pull over to the side of the road if you're driving.

And Alan's wife.

They make glass boards that are black glass that you write on with white markers.

Whoa, cool.

I know.

It looks incredible.

How it works in practice, I don't know.

This is not an endorsement unless Quartet wants to send us some money.

I'm just saying, in which case I'm going to say it works great.

But check out, and there are other manufacturers as well.

Check out

black glass writing surface or black glass dry erase board.

It looks really nice.

It looks beautiful.

It's got that chalkboard look, that white-on-black look, but none of that chalkboard

feeling.

Yeah, and it's the perfect way to plan your assault on Jakku.

That really is nowhere.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners.

We'll be back to clear more cases from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

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Oh.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We are clearing the docket.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne with me, Judge John Hodgman.

Here's a case from Izzy from Glendale.

Your honor, my partner and I love to cook for each other.

It's a real act of love.

However, we vehemently disagree on what is.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

These two people, they're partners.

Yeah.

And they cook for each other as kind of an expression of care and affection.

Yeah.

These are the two who do that.

Yeah.

They made it up, huh?

Wow.

Amazing.

It's a new thing.

I read about it in the New York Times style section.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Cool.

Yeah.

Because I know

food trucks, John.

Yeah.

I know in my family, we just shove food pellets into our mouths to sustain ourselves.

I take pills.

I'm just teasing you, Izzy.

Go on.

Yeah.

However, we vehemently disagree on what constitutes dinner time.

He thinks 6 or 6.30 is the correct dinner time.

I think dinner should be served at 8.

We talk about this a lot.

My most recent argument is that usually in romantic comedies, when one is courting their prospective lover, specifically for a dinner date, they say, see you at 8.

I also believe it's a more accurate end-of-day time.

6 o'clock, the afternoon is still ripe, full of non-food possibility.

That's the weirdest euphemism for evening hugging and kissing I've ever ever heard.

Yeah.

I feel you on this, Izzy.

You know, I had a formative experience in my understanding about dinner time

when I was 20 years old and

a pretentious

fanboy of the famous Argentine short story writer, poet, and fabulist Jorge Luis Borges.

And consequently, I traveled with

some travel funds from the college Spanish department to Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina, one of the greatest cities I've ever visited.

It's such an incredible experience.

I don't know if we have any listeners there in BA, but hit me up if you're down there, because I want to come back.

Maybe we could do a show in Buenos Aires after we go to Mexico City, Jesse.

Yeah, sold.

Good.

So Buenos Aires, it turns out I didn't realize it's a town.

It's very famous as a late-night town.

It's very famous for its churrascarias and its, you know, its spit-roasted meats and its steak particularly.

That might be more of a Brazilian term, churrascaria, but leave me alone, letter writers.

Point is, I was there, and I went out to dinner my first night because I was really excited to have dinner.

And it was 7.30 p.m., which felt like a normal dinner time to me.

And the restaurant was empty.

And the waiter came by, and I asked in surprisingly okay Castellano at the time, where is everybody?

And he said, well, it's only 7:30 p.m.

This is a night town.

Most people in Buenos Aires don't eat until like 10 o'clock at night.

Like the only

people who eat before eight o'clock are old people and children.

And then he literally waved across this whole restaurant, all these empty tables.

I didn't even notice.

He waved to this one party of three little children and a very old man eating dinner together.

He says, as you see.

And he was right.

I mean, as I got to know it, BA is a night town.

And I learned it that night when those kids and that old man and I went clubbing.

We were out until dawn.

But in any case, different cultures eat at different times.

And I was wondering if this might be a regional thing in the United States.

Jesse, when you were growing up there in San Francisco, what was dinner time to you?

6 p.m.?

If you had to choose, closer to six or closer to eight?

When I was younger, closer to six.

When I was older, older, closer to eight, but only closer to.

I don't think we ever ate dinner that late on a consistent basis.

It just went from, you know, six or six thirty to seven or seven thirty.

But of course, we live in cities, right?

And, you know,

we're in urban areas with late-night romantic comedy culture.

We don't eat until it's dark and we're on top of the Empire State Building, meeting there for the first time.

Right.

And we only eat from food trucks.

Right.

We know Izzy is riding from Glendale.

And since we know exactly zero about Izzy's partner,

their point of view, place of birth, inner life, or even name, I did a very quick little Twitter poll.

And what I discovered kind of surprised me, which was that

most respondents by far said 6 p.m.

is dinner time.

Whether you're in Boston, Pittsburgh, Casper, Wyoming, Raleigh, Maryland, Richmond, Iowa, South Carolina, Illinois, Florida, Denver.

San Francisco got one of the one 8 p.m.

California got one of the one 8 p.m.

But mostly, even Philadelphia, 6 p.m.

dinner.

And then, of course, Tyler wrote in from Mexico City saying,

blowing my mind with this answer, 20.

Which, of course, is 8

in world time.

20 or 8 p.m.

is called dinner, but it's a very light dinner since here we're used to having the large meal of the day around 13 or 15, which one and three.

And

guess what Tyler said, Jesse?

At 20, dinner would really just be a snack, honestly.

You want to hear what the snack is?

Yeah.

Tyler's snack,

which I will forever know as Tyler's snack.

Sometimes just 500 grams of oatmeal or a piece of bread with almond milk.

That's a dinner.

Yep.

500 grams of oatmeal.

You got it.

But a lot of people also said, eight before kids, solid six now.

Like you, when you were growing up.

Kids got to eat early, even in Buenos Aires.

Grandpa's going to take them out for dinner as early as 7.30, which is like morning in Buenos Aires.

And I certainly, my dinner time morphed to six.

So I think that it has less to do with region.

and more to do either with the number of people on Twitter who have kids now or their unconscious bias bias towards what they grew up doing, right?

They were kids, so they probably ate earlier.

And until you have that short, sharp shock of a porteño waiter telling you you're eating like a child, you don't realize that there are places in the world where people eat dinner a lot later.

And yeah, Izzy's right.

It's more romantic to eat at 8 p.m.

like a grown-up than it is to eat at 6 p.m.

and, you know,

like a child.

And, you you know, I think that Izzy's partner, I don't know, because

you didn't represent your partner very well here.

You didn't even give a counter argument.

When you're sending stuff in, please offer the counter-argument at least.

But Izzy's partner just kind of naturally gravitates to six because Izzy's partner still thinks of dinner as mommy and daddy feed-me time.

But that's not everyone's kink, Izzy's partner.

Especially if you are child-free, which as far as I can tell, you are, and you're cooking to express love for each other.

Yeah.

I I would say even push it to 8.15.

Like, go crazy.

Have some afternoon non-food time.

Like a cocktail.

Here's something from Austin from Buffalo.

Living in Buffalo, New York, our winters are harsh, and we splurged last winter on two new shovels.

One to keep in the car to dig out after plows or getting stuck, and another to keep in the hallway outside our apartment for shoveling the walkway and sidewalk.

Now, Jesse, I'll ask you to pause right there.

This is a big topic coming up here

and a fairly long letter.

And I thought seriously about cutting that whole first paragraph, but I left it in for two reasons.

A reminder to me and to the world that living in Buffalo is hard.

And two, I had to respect Austin's shovel bragging there.

That's pretty cool.

Two shovels.

You solved a problem for yourself.

One for the car.

All right.

Please proceed, Jesse.

Days after this purchase, the hallway shovel was stolen.

After two days, I noticed one of our neighbors putting our shovel in the back of her car,

thanks to our street-facing second-story window and me currently being unemployed.

My partner and I disputed the next step to take.

She wanted to leave assertive notes on the stairwell door saying something to the effect of, we're happy to lend our shovel, but please return it here.

I wanted to knock on our neighbor's door and confront them, noting how I often shovel the walkway for everyone in the building and how things were beginning to get dangerously icy.

But I begrudgingly agreed to write a note, which promptly was ripped down.

We wrote another, and it too was taken.

After a total of 12 days, the shovel reappeared and my partner claimed victory.

I resent this and feel my approach would have solved the issue quicker and been a good way to assert our place in a new apartment building's social hierarchy.

Jesse,

this is

a family welcoming podcast, and I don't like to swear on the podcast, but Fozzie H.

Bear, that is one aggro-apartment complex.

Yeah,

you know that when you move into a new apartment building

in Buffalo, New York, the first thing you got to do is stab somebody.

Because otherwise, you'll never get respect.

Yeah, just go up to the biggest person and steal their shovel.

Yeah.

I'm not sure that wings are enough compensation for the snow and bad vibes of Buffalo, New York.

I'm sure.

Hey, I'm sure it's a wonderful town.

I look forward to us visiting there during the spring or summer months.

And thanks to Buffalo, New York for giving us the immense good vibes of the great Joe Parra, creator of Joe Para Talks With You,

one of my favorite television shows.

Yeah, Buffalo's got a lot to offer, but we're dealing with some hard Buffalo right now.

You know, Jesse,

I don't like conflict.

Don't have a lot of practice with it.

Have no brothers or sisters.

Have no siblings.

Scared of talking to people.

Good for when I'm on a stage talking down to people.

Talking with people, still scary to me a little bit.

I'm an only child.

I'm a, you know, you know the phrase.

I'm not even going to repeat it, and I'm afraid that I won't be able to.

Look at the tote bag you got from from us.

But the point is, I'm so conflict-averse

that my instinct in considering Austin's problem was to overcompensate and say, Yeah, you should go and confront your neighbor.

But then I thought about it, like, what, Austin, think it through.

What would have happened if you had gone to your neighbor's door and knocked on the door and demanded your shovel back?

I mean, you know now that this person is terrible.

This person took your property, put it in her car.

You put up a note, she tore it down.

You put up a second note, she tore it down.

This neighbor is a wild card.

You don't know what's going to happen when your neighbor first opens your door and your first interaction with them is, you stole my stuff.

What if she just said, no, I didn't?

Classic.

Classic thing to do if you steal something.

No, I didn't.

I saw you put it in your car.

No, you didn't.

You must have made a mistake.

What are you going to do?

Just stand there?

You're going to try to get into, you can't go into her apartment to look for your shovel or whatever.

She's evaded you with the Steeler's two-step.

And then you just get angrier and angrier and nothing gets resolved.

And you know what she probably does in that case is she probably burns it out of spite.

Yeah.

People don't like to think of themselves as bad people.

People who do a bad thing will come up with any kind of rationalization to explain why they didn't do a bad thing, especially if they're confronted with it face to face.

You know what I mean?

You're going to be defensive.

Sometimes it takes a person who did a bad thing some time to realize, yeah, that was bad.

And that work happens inside.

People don't change right in front of you because you told them that they're wrong.

They change because they see by example and learn slowly, oh, I'm wrong.

It was wrong of me to steal my neighbor's shovel.

And that happens inside.

So you put up signs.

You put up, in different ways, you put up signs.

You show with your behavior how you would like other people to act.

Sometimes

you say how you would prefer to be treated, but you don't expect a response, a kind of verbal sign.

You know, not one that is designed to provoke an apology, but one to simply say, here's my value.

And sometimes you literally put up a sign that just says, please don't steal the shovel.

And it might take that person two or three ripdowns before, obviously, they finally understood, yeah, I shouldn't have taken that shovel.

And they get to give it back in secret.

And they get to do that because they avoid shame, which is maybe not fair.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

But in this case, Austin, your partner's instinct was absolutely right.

A note helps bad people slowly confront their own awfulness and sidestep shame.

It's the neighborly thing to do.

You have to live with these people.

Let's take a quick break when we come back.

A cautionary tale about hissing cockroaches.

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Find it at maximumfun.org.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne with Judge John Hodgman.

We have a case here from Josh from Pittsburgh.

Speaking of Steelers, John.

Yeah.

Pittsburgh Steelers.

My wife gets angry when I call a large kitty a jungle cat.

She doesn't think that's a real term.

She also won't accept it if you rule this is a real phrase.

So I'll be dipped if I know why I'm bothering here.

Oh, I'll be dipped.

I never heard that phrase before.

I thought it was a Pittsburgh thing.

But

I guess it's an American southern thing is what i was what i discovered yeah i guess it's a great thing

it's it's short for i'll be dipped in poop if i know why i'm bothering here that's that's what i discovered from the internet wow i'm gonna say i'll be dipped i'm gonna say i'll be dipped not just about things that would lead me to be dipped but just in general i'm i'm using it in all circumstances from here on out you know what i did learn though about pittsburgh a lot a number of kind listeners wrote in to talk about the pittsburgh accent and dialect and different words they have for things thank you Pittsburghians.

I love that town.

But one thing I learned is, you know what they call baloney in Pittsburgh?

What's that?

Jumbo.

I don't know.

I don't know why.

It's good to the jelly.

It's like, I'll have a half a pound of jumbo sliced thin.

I don't know what's going on.

Fantastic.

Yeah,

Josh,

a large kitty is not a jungle cat.

Because you know why?

Largest cat available is your Maine Coon cat.

Male Maine Coon Cat can be 30 pounds.

It's the largest domestic cat you can get.

I could be wrong, but I'm going to say that I'm not.

And even the second largest, which is the Norwegian forest cat, which is a

heck of a name.

Clearly, neither Maine nor the Norwegian forest.

Are jungles, they're forests.

A jungle cat means a large cat.

A leopard.

A panther, a jaguar, a tiger,

an ocelot?

Sure.

Missing any good jungle cats?

A cheetah is not a jungle cat.

No, that's on the plains of the Serengeti.

It's plains of the Serengeti cat.

So I don't blame Josh, your wife, for getting angry when you call a large kitty a jungle cat.

That's literally a pet name, but not a taxonomically legitimate thing to say.

So I'll be dipped if you know why you were bothering here with this one.

Pittsburgh has its own taxonomy, and in Pittsburgh, a large pet cat is known as a jumbo.

A jumbo, of course.

Judge Hodgman, we had some conversation recently on the program about cockroaches as pets that led to some people sending me pictures of their pet cockroaches, which really upset me.

I'm going to be frank with you.

Hey, everybody.

Really, really uncomfortable.

As we learned a couple of episodes ago,

a young listener named Zola, 11 and a half, I presumed,

I believe that her pronouns are she, her, and I believe that she was probably named after Arnam Zola, the Marvel Comics villain, played by Toby Jones in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Hey, Chesse, you ever interviewed Toby Jones on Bullseye?

No, Toby Jones.

I think Toby Jones sometimes is a wonderful actor.

Tell you what, if we move into a place where it's okay to travel around and fly for any old dumb reason,

if you book Toby Jones in person,

let me know in advance so I can fly out there and just watch his face move.

I just love, I want to meet him, but mostly I just love watching his face move.

Such a good actor.

I mean, John, you don't need to sell me Toby Jones.

As a detectorists, enthusiast and a fan of the films of Mike Lee,

Toby Jones is an easy sell for me.

Love that guy.

Well, Zola is named after one of Toby Jones' most famous characters, the villain Arnim Zola in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

And she also had petitioned to get a pet Madagascar hissing cockroach.

Not just any cockroach, a huge cockroach.

And I believe she just wanted one.

And her parents didn't want this, but I found in her favor because I checked in with our friend in Pittsburgh, Danny Kramer, and they have a big tank of Madagascar hissing cockroaches in their place there in Pittsburgh that I've seen many a time on Get Your Pets, my occasional Instagram Instagram show.

And Danny said a single Madagascar hissing cockroach is a good idea.

More than one, and you will soon have 1,000.

Well, I got a letter from a veterinarian in Oakland, California, Jesse Thorne.

I think you're familiar with that area.

Shouts to the town, Nickel Dime.

And this vet is named Dr.

Sip, and Dr.

Sip wrote this letter.

Some years ago, A client came to see me with her Chinese water dragon.

First of all, great way to open a story.

I love that.

Good opening line, Dr.

Sip.

I feel like I'm reading a Borges short story right now.

Some years ago, a client came to see me with her Chinese water dragon.

And she shared a tale of purchasing her first and last pet MHC.

Madagascar is in cockroach.

That's veterinarian slang.

Sure.

All was going well.

She had a lovely new pet.

They bonded.

They stared at each other.

And then one day.

There's not much else to do, I think.

Yeah.

With an MHC.

I can't imagine the cockroach sees all that well either.

I don't know about their visual acuity.

Then one day, she discovered that her purchase had come with 50 or 60 hangers on.

Turned out the MHC was gravid on the day of acquisition.

That is to say, loaded up with babies.

Pregnant.

The little ones could fit through the wire mesh over the tank.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

And the owner spent the next six months seeking out tiny mini hissers all over the apartment.

So

get an MHC, but check under the hood.

So Jesse,

this naturally led me to wonder, what are you looking for when you check under the hood of a Madagascar hissing cockroach to find out if they're gravid or not?

Yeah.

So I wrote to Danny in Pittsburgh

and they got right back to me and said,

I'm going to go ahead and throw a content warning on this

because

People should know, like, this is a pretty specialized pet.

You know what I mean?

It's a cockroach.

And if you have them, you love them.

But you don't necessarily need to send them.

You don't need to send pictures of them to Jesse.

They're not for everyone.

Yeah.

Pick a more conventional pet, like a tarantula.

So

this is going to be a little cockroachy.

This is the cockroach realm of gross.

But Danny said, the way you know that a cockroach is pregnant is that they look kind of inflated

and like their sides are going to split.

Okay.

Thank you, Danny.

Thank you, Danny, for going out to Pittsburgh and organizing people to clean up Pittsburgh.

Danny has a great Twitter account at Danny Kramer14, D-A-N-I-K-R-A-M-E-R 14.

I mentioned it before.

It's trash, treasures for community.

They sell stuff that they find dumped around Pittsburgh, clean it up, sell it, donate the money to all kinds of really good social causes in Pittsburgh.

Most recent posting is an Eagle license plate frame.

Danny has posted it at $12,

unless you are also the owner of the car that I see around town with the vanity plate that says PMS 666.

If that's your car,

if that's your car, the price is $0.

Good one.

Anyway,

yeah, so that's how you find out if your Madagascar hissing cockroach is pregnant.

And apparently,

if it's true, you gotta, you put, I guess what I looked, what I discovered from roachforum.com, real website, they recommend just putting Vaseline

on the

screen to keep the babies from getting out.

I don't, I think

check with your Madagascar hissing cockroach source and make sure that this isn't a problem before you go home.

And don't send Jesse any more pictures of cockroaches.

Send that to me.

I can take that heat.

I'm the hero Gotham deserves, not what it needs.

I want to see scruffy dogs.

Yeah, more send Jesse more scruffy dogs.

Oh, Jesse, one last thing before we go.

Remember how you also told a story about you were sleeping in a basement full of slugs at one point in your childhood?

For a significant time in my childhood, yes.

From between the ages of nine and 18.

A listener sent in a letter about sleeping in a basement as a child with

similar, but not the same creepy crawliness.

Would you like to hear this letter?

No.

Good, because I'm not going to read it.

It's not going to happen.

Will it happen after the credits in a secret post-credits scene?

Who's to say?

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ Ho.

And check out the Maximum Fund subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com to chat about this episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email hodgman at maximumfun.org.

We will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

this is

a surprise post credit sequence

once again it is i

john hodgman

sitting at the bottom of a haunted ghost pool

in bridgeton maine near Shawnee Peak to bring you another tale of creepy crawly terror.

If you're wondering, the voice that I'm using is my personal adaptation of

the wonderful and truly inimitable speaking voice of Edgar Oliver,

the legend of downtown New York,

performance, poetry, and playwright and public speaking and theater.

He's known for his distinctive accent and diction, a true inspiration to me.

Today's creepy crawly scary letter comes from

Pamela.

My parents divorced when I was very young, and my father remarried relatively quickly to my horrid stepmother.

When my sister and I visited, we were relegated to being basement dwellers when they lived in

Early Pennsylvania.

The basement was particularly dark and dank in an older home.

When we stayed there, we would complain to the parents that it smelled bad and we were scared to sleep there at night.

Because of the rustling noises we could hear in the dark.

The parents parents told us we were being ridiculous.

One day, after a bad rainstorm, there was standing water in our room.

I'm doing, now I'm moving into a little Brian Blessed, I apologize.

Standing water in our room.

And my father decided I'd better check in the walls behind the paneling on what water damage might be hiding back there.

And he pulled back on one of the panels near the head of my bed in the corner.

Dozens of centipedes came spilling out of the opening and onto the floor,

clicking and skittering in the light and running in all directions.

Naturally,

everyone screamed.

When he called the exterminator, they found

thousands of centipedes behind the rest of the panels, all

living in the dark, clicking and crawling and making noises to scare little girls in the dark.

Signed Pamela.

This has been Judge John Hodgman

Creepy Crawley Theater from the bottom of a ghost pool in Maine for April 2021.

Parents,

should you be the parent of a blended family,

please don't make anyone sleep in the basement.

Those children are going through enough.

Get them real rooms.

Goodbye.

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