There's No Southwest in Space

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week to clear the docket

with,

well,

the second man,

because he can't be the main man.

That's Joel Mann.

Judge John Hodgman.

I am the second gentleman of the state of Maine currently here in the solar-powered studios of WERU, 89.9 FM, WERU.org, across the glass from the main man, the mole man, Joel Man.

Joel, how are you?

Doing well, Judge.

Now, listen, I have a question for you.

Did you make a wedge salad smoothie like I asked?

That's tonight's dinner.

Uh-huh, right.

Promises made, promises not kept.

Guess what, though?

I kept my promise.

Last week, Jesse Thorne, I promised to share.

Well, I was going to share it last week, but I got a little annoyed and we got a little short on time.

So I saved it for this week.

Cowboy Crackers.

Jesse Thorne, do you know what a cowboy cracker is?

No, they came up on the show recently, but it's not something I'd ever heard of.

Let me ask you: have you ever heard the term firecracker?

And I'm not talking about a firework, a snip-snap, a bing-bang.

You know what I mean?

I'm talking about a cracker called a firecracker.

No, I mean, I've heard of bing-bangs, but I've never heard of a firecracker.

Firecrackers, aka cowboy crackers, are

a recipe for

you know what it is?

It's a motted-out saltine.

And I was sent this recipe by listener Constance

right after we were talking about your big vat of ranch dressing, not ranch dressing, ranch seasoning that you have, right, Jesse Thorne?

Yeah, it's great.

I bought it at a warehouse store.

It's like a jug of like a pound of ranch seasoning.

Pound jug of ranch seasoning.

Yeah.

And Constance wrote to me something I had never heard of before.

She said, and she was writing from North Carolina.

She said, I buy ranch powder packets to make my husband's favorite snack, cowboy crackers.

I thought Jesse could use some of his bulk ranch powder to try this snack also.

And here's what a cowboy cracker is.

You take a pound of saltines,

a cup of ola, canola or light olive, two tablespoons of red pepper flakes, four tablespoons of ranch powder, put all of that in a Ziploc bag and flip it around for 15 minutes and then you eat them.

And I was like, you just eat them?

You just eat these oily ranchy crackers?

And she said, yes.

And that is a way to eat them.

But I looked it up.

And this is a very, have you ever heard of these things, Jesse?

No, they so far they sound tremendous.

This sounds like

this sounds like one of those things like buffalo chicken dip that America invented because America is disgusting, but also America is right.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean,

I was frankly astonished.

And when I looked them up to verify, because I talked to all my friends in North Carolina.

I talked to Phil Morrison.

I talked to John Kimball.

I talked to Mac from Super Chunk.

I talked to Andrea Rusing of Lantern Restaurant.

No one had ever heard of these things.

They're not a North Carolina thing.

They're more of an Alabama.

They're called Alabama Firecrackers.

And what I discovered, and they're called all sorts of things, because they make them all over the place, various different recipes.

I ended up making the recipe from Southern Living because that's a magazine.

So you figure they've got a fact checker.

And what they did

was they doubled the oil.

They doubled the amount of oil.

They added granulated garlic, granulated onion, same amount of red pepper flakes and ranch powder.

But you don't just flip them over for 15 minutes.

You let them steep in that overnight, which I did last night, Joel.

Last night.

And then, and this is the thing you cannot you bake them for 15 minutes in a 250 degree oven Joel I brought you a gift box of firecrackers and content warning for those of you who have mesophonia content warning Joel eating is happening now you made these I made these last night well they they steeped they steeped last night

and then I and then I baked them I would have brought some for you Jennifer and for you Jesse but I can't you're in a different place I can't put them in the chat on the Zoom unfortunately and you want me to eat this?

Yeah, get one with a lot of red pepper flakes on it.

Yeah, okay.

Joel is fun.

What do you think, Joel?

It tastes like an oily saltine.

It's not very hot.

I wouldn't call that hot.

There's no heat there.

All right, Joel.

It's not exactly the reaction I was looking for because I want to tell you something right now.

They're goddamn delicious.

Oh, man, These are so hot.

Forget it.

Forget it.

Here's, look,

we're going to post.

We're going to post the recipe

on the show page at maximumfun.org.

They're goddamn, sorry to be, sorry to curse children.

They're god or whatever damn delicious.

Jesse Thorne, you'll see.

I'm going to mail some to you.

Or you can make them yourself.

They're real easy.

And they're not that hot.

I agree with you, Joel, because you know what?

I used a different kind of chili pepper flake.

I didn't use the regular red pepper flakes this time.

Use both next time.

No, I used, it calls for red pepper flakes like the kind you get, you know, McCormick, you know, red dust brand.

Stuff you put on a pizza.

But I, but you know, here it's a market report at the Trade Winds, they have Aleppo pepper chili flakes, which is a fruitier and more fragrant chili flake.

And that's what I put on your, on your firecracker.

Well, thank you.

I thought, I mean, I think it gives it a bit more depth of flavor, but you're right.

It's not as hot.

Aleppo pepper.

You need to know that that's what they have over there.

Griffin Ridge is a spice company in Litchfield, Maine that is killing it.

You go into the trade winds, you take a right, you take another right.

They have everything you need.

They have Gochugaru Korean chili flakes, cashmere chili powder in case you want to make Priyanka Matu's Rogan Josh from the New Yorker.

They have thyme.

They have cumin.

Hold the phones, John.

They have cumin?

They have cumin.

Stop the presses.

Look, I don't know what Griffin Ridge is doing out there in Litchfield, Maine, but it's like a magic trick.

When you find a recipe that has, yes, you have cumin and thyme and everything else, but you have the calls for something really specific like Kashmiri chili powder.

They got it.

Take a right.

Take another right, Joel.

Cumin on?

Joel, you're killing me today.

Killing me.

I'm murdered now.

Okay.

I have some justice here.

All right, but I just want to tell you about one more thing, a little bit more market report for you, Jesse.

You know what they had at the TradeWinds market?

What's that?

And a big bin.

You know what they had?

Dozens and dozens

of vinyl eight disc collectors sets of Sign of the Times by Prince.

Did you know that?

John, I have an admission to make here.

Yeah.

I posted on my social media that I had spent my Christmas money buying an eight disc set of Prince's album, Sign of the Times.

Right.

Which is a double album, but eight is a lot of discs for a double album.

Eight is not enough.

I opened it up and I've been listening to it and I have a confession to make, John.

Please.

Yeah.

It's actually a 13 discs.

What?

What happened?

And there's a DVD.

Oh, well, that makes me feel good because the ones they had at the supermarket were only the eight discs, no DVD, and they were $3.50 each, $3.50 each.

But now I know you got the really special stuff.

Yeah.

Okay, let's get into the...

I know I could put off justice for another minute with you on that one.

All right, let's go.

Let's do it.

Here's a case from Douglas.

I bring the case against my wife, Juliet.

Just before she and I became involved, I went on what I consider to be three dates with a different young woman, a dinner date, a brunch date, and a group birthday party.

Then things ended naturally on good terms.

Juliet was the next, best, and last first date I went on.

She and I have been married for 12 years.

However, whenever we tell the story of how we met, if I mention I was dating someone at the time, Juliet objects.

She insists that we were not dating, but that we had rather just gone on a couple of dates.

She thinks I'm overselling the relationship because the person I was dating is an actress who is reasonably well known, and that I like dropping her name.

I won't hear.

I would never describe this young woman as my girlfriend, but I think dating is a perfectly reasonable way to describe what we did.

If you, for example, jumped three times, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say that you had been jumping.

Am I a monster, husband?

That's true.

If Joel Mann jumped three times, I would say Joel is jumping, not Joel went on a couple of jumps.

It's unlikely that Joel would do that.

Oh, I'm still steamed over Joel's lukewarm reaction to my hot crackers.

Don't jump.

All right.

So we have withheld at the request of Douglas the name of the actress that he

definitely went on a dinner date, a brunch date, and a group birthday to.

Whether that's dating or not is the subject of this discussion.

And also, at Douglas's request, we have changed his name.

His name is not not Douglas, and his wife's name is not Juliet.

A mystery to bound.

Yeah.

But I presume that this person

that he was dating has to be

some incredibly famous great beauty that you would want people to know that you had been dating.

I presume it was Isabella Russellini.

Yeah.

Seems likely that it was.

Suze Fair.

Yeah.

Isabella Russellini.

Yeah, because they were,

I know from another bit of this letter, they were 25 when they met.

So,

and that's 12 years ago.

Like, if you were 25 years old and dating Isabella Rossellini, you would want to say, I think you would want to say.

Even if you had only been on a couple of dates.

Honestly, if I went on three dates with Isabella Rossellini before I met my wife,

I'd already have sold a book about it.

Yeah, exactly right.

Exactly right.

Even if one of those dates was just a jumping date.

Yeah.

Just three, just three jumps.

You know what I mean?

That counts.

I had a couple go-to first dates.

You know, take a girl ice skating

or go-to double touch.

Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, would you say then, Jesse, that it is fair to say that Douglas was dating Isabella Russellini in this case?

It really is on the line.

It's on the line, right?

It really is on the line.

I think,

were it me, I think if I use the word dating, I would probably want to use it in a context that clarified that it was

two and a half dates.

Yeah, group birthday party, you can kind of strike that off the list.

I mean,

I would, like, to be clear,

I would want to brag about it.

Right.

If I had dated a famous person,

even if I was, as I am, in a, in a loving, happy, fulfilling relationship.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

Like, me too.

I'm, I, you know, I, I have been married to the, the whole human being who also happens to be my wife

for 22 years this year.

And we dated pretty much exclusively, though not entirely, for 10 years before that.

But on the other hand, you know, like

Justin Long, my cohort

in the Apple ads, was dating Drew Barrymore.

And I played her husband on a TV show one episode of.

So does that mean that Drew Barrymore and I were dating?

Yeah.

I dated Drew Barrymore.

Yeah.

How about this, John?

Yeah.

The wonderful actress Aya Cash

went to high school with my wife and I.

Sure.

And Aya, of course, is now one of the stars of The Boys,

but was also one of the stars of You're You're the Worst.

Yeah, wonderful, wonderful actor.

Yeah, and you know, she went over to my wife's house a couple of times

just to hang out because we were all in acting class together.

And so I'm pretty sure I dated her.

I'm pretty sure that counts as a date.

Yeah.

At least one date.

I had lunch.

Have you ever heard of Paul Rudd?

No.

Paul Rudd is a New England thing.

Paul Rudd is an actor.

Oh, boy, what a nice fella.

And I had lunch with him once,

and then I saw him at a hotel, and he was having a cocktail with Peyton Reed and Michael Shannon, the actor.

And I got waved over and I got to sit with them for a while.

And then Paul Rudd and I went to go see 12th Night on Broadway together

with our wives.

But definitely, that's three dates.

Three, I definitely was dating Paul Rudd for sure.

And by the way,

I also was dating Jamie Lee Curtis and Christopher Guest simultaneously once.

Wow.

I was at a dinner with them, and I said to Jamie Lee Curtis, I love your husband.

I love your husband, and I'm going to take him from you.

And she said, you better not.

These are true stories.

I get why.

I get why Douglas would like to brag about dating Isabella Rossellini for sure.

But

here's where I get hung up.

I don't like this coming up in the context of how we met.

Like, I don't like the, I don't like, and I appreciate Juliette being like, why is it part of the story of how we met

that you were dating, quote unquote, Isabella Rossellini at the time?

That's not part of the story.

And I could understand why Juliet would be like, please, that's not dating.

You weren't, it wasn't serious.

Well, I'm saying this, Juliet.

It was just as serious as it was.

Certainly as serious as it was between me and Paul Rudd.

It was what it was.

And I can appreciate why,

even though obviously the two of you are deeply in love and committed to each other,

why it is fun for Douglas from time to time to remember that he went on two and one-half dates with Isabella Rossellini, why he might

say it from time to time.

Might say, I was dating Isabella Rossellini, for heaven's sake.

But it's been 12 years, Douglas.

Maybe don't bring it up so much.

It's really not in the context of how we met.

That's not part of your story with Juliet.

How you threw over Isabella Rossellini.

Because even if you literally like, I'm sorry, Isabella Rossellini, I've met the love of my life.

And Isabella Rossellini was crying as you left the room.

That's a gross part of the story.

Don't tell it.

Separate stories.

How we met is one

And then, you know,

Isabella Rossolini and I once went to a group birthday together.

Keep them separate.

Keep your beautiful marriage and your weird fantasy memory life separate.

You're entitled to both, but you know.

Did you know Elliot Kalen went to high school with Anne Hathaway and he knows her as Annie?

Did he date her?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Absolutely he did.

If he went to high school and knew her as Annie, they definitely dated.

Here's something from an anonymous letter writer who asks,

Can you please impose a blanket injunction on all parents from badgering single children in their late 30s to get married?

That way, all the parents who don't listen to this podcast will continue to badger their children, but at least I'll feel heard.

I think that they're ⁇ this is very unusual, Joel.

I normally don't hear a case between a plaintiff and all parents.

But I'm going to hear it this time because I think anonymous,

more parents of people in their 30s listen to this than you think.

And I think they need to hear what you're saying.

Now, since this person is also choosing to be anonymous, I'm just going to presume that this is the the actor Chris Evans, my fellow Commonwealthian of Massachusetts, a native of Sudbury.

And I'm just going to say, listen, Chris Evans' mom, Lisa, who's a director at the Concord Youth Theater, and also Chris Evans' dad, Bob, who's a dentist.

Listen to Chris.

Look, I understand.

Your son, Chris Evans, would have very nice babies.

I mean, we'd all love to have some baby Captains America running around.

And if rumors are true, maybe some baby Johnny Storms

in the MCU multiverse in the new Doctor Strange movie could happen.

But Chris Evans isn't ready yet.

And it's Chris Evans' life.

Don't badger your kids to get married.

Don't badger your kids to have kids.

Don't badger your kids.

That's their lives.

By the way, Jesse, before we go to the break, did you know that Chris Evans follows me on Twitter?

and once retweeted one of my announcements about Dick Town TV show that Dave Reese and I made

I didn't know that.

That's amazing.

We're basically, we were dating, dating Chris Evans.

John, did you know that

I have an Aaron sweater?

So I'm also dating Chris Evans.

Oh, is that the sweater that he wore in

Knives Out?

Yeah.

That wonderful movie that was made by our boyfriend, Ryan Johnson, whom we've been dating.

Yeah, he was over at my house once, so he and I definitely have dated.

Right.

Yeah.

And Karina Longworth, who makes that incredible podcast, you must remember this.

I haven't been dating her.

I just admire her work.

Yeah, she's really great.

Oh, did I tell you that?

Did I tell you when I learned that Chris Evans was from Sudbury, Massachusetts?

I DM'd him and I said, Can you confirm a rumor that I heard from Charlotte, a clarinet player that I knew at the New England Conservatory of Music, that Lincoln Sudbury Regional High School was known locally as Drinkin' Drugsbury Reasonably High School?

And Chris Evans said, Absolutely, that's true.

That was our second date.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partner.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfund.org

join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week and we have a case from John.

My wife and I host what we call the playlist party.

We choose a theme and then each guest adds two songs they think best exemplify the playlist's theme.

Then we debate the merits of each song.

I hear you laughing, but I think this is a good game.

I like this game so far.

Recently, my friend Bri and I had an argument over the playlist theme duets.

She says a duet's a song on which a guest vocalist appears with an established singer.

I maintain that a duet is simply two vocalists singing together.

For Bree, Freddie Mercury and David Bowie appearing together in Under Pressure is a duet.

However, the Avett brothers harmonizing together is not a duet because they are already established as a group.

I believe this doesn't matter.

Eric B and Rakim, for example, are a duo that have some great duets.

Whoa, wait a minute.

Wait, so

that's Rakim duetting with Eric B's turntable scratching?

That actually, I think my understanding of the historical record is that Eric B was not actually doing the scratching on the records.

But Jaw drop.

Is that true?

Yeah, I think Rakim made the beats and maybe did the scratches too.

I think it's like a mix.

That's my memory.

It's a hazy memory.

I would recommend people check out Brian Coleman's oral histories of great hip-hop records to verify this.

Yeah.

But that's my memory.

Well, my first question out of the gate was going to be: Jesse Thorne,

is an Eric B.

and Rakim song a duet?

No, of course it isn't.

That's ridiculous.

Right.

I don't even know if I would characterize, you know,

the show

by

Dougie Fresh and Slick Rick as a duet.

They both rap on that song and they perform together in the same.

What's that noise?

It's a construction.

But what is they both...

Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Let's leave this in the edit.

Okay.

We got rid of Blowy the Leaf Blower.

Now you've got construction outside.

The noise I'm hearing, though, is not a construction noise.

It's more like a creaky chair.

Yeah, so what that sound is, is a giant boring bit that bores into the ground so that they can sink concrete pylons or whatever.

And when it comes up out of the ground, the bit, you know, the screw, the digging part, is full of dirt and it does does this kind of clanging

backwards turn.

Clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, clang to shake the dirt out of the thing.

You know what, Jesse?

Speaking of boring bits, let's just move on from that one.

Yeah.

So, wait a minute.

You're telling me that the show featuring Slick Rick and Dougie Fresh, that's not a duet?

Why not?

I think for it to be it, I think a duet, to me, a duet is two people singing together.

Okay.

I don't think rapping together,

you know, on a posse cut or whatever

represents a duet.

I don't think somebody doing a guest verse on somebody's song is a duet.

I think that part of a duet is the two singers working together directly in a way that

two rappers on a song rarely do.

You know, when rappers are trading verses, I think that's a different dynamic than you know, Tony Bennett and Lady Kaga or whatever.

Well, I've got, I'm going to throw this into the mix

because I'm extremely old.

When we're talking about rapping and duets,

how do you account for I Got a Man by positive K?

It's the classic dilemma.

How do you account for I I Got a Man by Positive K?

I think this is a side road.

I think raps are a side road.

I think the real question is, is it a duet if there are multiple vocalists in a group who sing together?

Well, wait a minute.

Would you agree that Under Pressure, David Bowie and Freddie Mercury, that's a duet?

Yes.

Yes, of course.

Right.

See, I'm going to rule, and obviously this is not binding,

but I think that I Got a Man by Positive K is a duet for this reason.

It is in that

the two main voices are in dialogue with each other.

And if you haven't listened to I Got a Man for a While, you can check it out.

I'm a little embarrassed because I was just thinking of that song, and this is off my dome, as they say.

And I remember Positive K, but I'm looking now at the song.

I don't know who the woman is who rapped on that song, which is, I think, fairly criminal.

So I'm, I'm, during the break, I'm going to find out and I'll let you know.

Because that is one where

the whole conversation is, I would like to be your boyfriend.

And she says, I have a boyfriend.

And he says, I'm not trying to hear that, see?

And they are in dialogue with each other.

And certainly.

Does that include the show?

I mean, excuse me, Dougie Fresh.

Yes.

Have you ever seen a show with fellas on the mic with one-minute rhymes that don't come out right?

They bite.

They never write.

That's not polite.

Am I lying?

No, you're quite right.

You're quite right.

It's an interchange between Rick and Dougie Fresh.

I'm feeling that is in the duet zone

insofar as you can also have, and I defer to you.

None of this is binding.

I leave, rap chord is your court.

But

what I think that we're identifying at least is something that we agree upon, some common ground about what a duet is.

It is not necessarily just two people singing together or performing together and merely harmonizing.

That would be a duo.

A duet is when two distinct voices, lines, singers,

performers are

in conversation with each other.

And that can happen even in a non-verbal piece.

Like you have a clarinet duet, two clarinets, they're playing off each other.

You know what I mean?

And then we take a break and when we walk over to the Burger King to get our lunch at the New England Conservatory of Music on Boylston Street, the BK is not there anymore.

And Charlotte tells you, they called my high school drinking drugs very reasonably high school.

And you'd wonder for the rest of your life, is that true?

Different story.

Sorry.

So I would say that Bree is correct

in that Freddie Mercury and David Bowie, that is a duet.

But Bree is wrong.

in that a guest vocal on a track does not define duet.

Is that fair to say, Jesse?

Yeah, I think that's a fair description.

Yeah.

You have two voices singing to each other, like

me and Paul Rudd singing karaoke, Fairy Tale of New York, at the Daily Show Christmas Party, one of our many, many dates.

Joel Mann.

Did Joe Bird and the Field Hippies ever do a duet?

No.

Pick two duets to add to the playlist.

Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard.

Singing what song?

Yeah.

Poncho and Lefty?

Yeah, Poncho and Lefty.

Thank you.

All right.

And what's the other one?

Look, I don't work at a community radio station.

Do you?

Sometimes, yeah.

Hey, everybody, if you've got a couple of duets

you want to suggest,

put them in the comments at the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account.

Let us know.

Let's build this playlist out.

I like it.

What about Huey Lewis and the movie Duets?

Sure.

Anything with Huey Lewis is fine.

Okay, great.

Thank goodness.

Here's something from Kyle.

My friends and I play a grand strategy space simulator called Stellaris.

This is great so far.

John, I can already tell I'm going to love this one.

What type of strategy space simulator are you playing?

Grand or otherwise?

Look, before you move on to even the second half of this sentence, may I point out that I was going to cut grand from grand strategy space simulator, because I felt like that's a statement of value that we don't need.

But it turns out grand strategy, space simulation is a very specific genre of space simulation.

It's literally called grand strategy, space simulation.

I don't know.

What's the problem, Kyle?

Grand is a word used to delineate the boundaries of certain genres of strategy, space simulator, and canyon.

I think that they're trying to distinguish it from a mundane strategy space simulator.

Yeah.

Okay, here we go.

My friends and I play a grand strategy space simulator called Stellaris.

And in our current game, diplomatic relations are strained.

I'm playing as a despotic empire bent on purging the entire galaxy of all other species.

Wow.

My two other friends, Kevin and Lewis, are playing as more humane, open societies.

I have no issues with our political differences.

Oh, don't you?

However, our game lacks a court, and I'm looking for an injunction regarding a diplomatic snafu.

Situation normal, all fouled up.

All fouled up.

In my quest for domination, my fleets are presently massing on my southwestern border to invade the empire next to mine.

Meanwhile, Kevin and Lewis have banded their civilizations into a federation and have offered membership to the empire that I am planning to invade.

Their plan is to bring this empire into their fold in a bid to prevent our empire from achieving its manifest destiny.

Rude!

Please order Kevin and Lewis to stop bringing additional civilizations into their federation or at a minimum to focus on other civilizations so that I can expand my empire in the way that I see fit, just as they intend to with theirs.

All right, Grand Emperor Kyle.

First of all,

your game, of course, it is a court, because it's a game.

It has rules.

Games have rules.

And it did not take me long on the Stellaris Wikipedia page to learn, for example,

that if you have an empire that you designate spiritualist, it cannot use robots.

And if a spiritualist empire takes over a planet, it dismantles all the robots on them according to their law.

And a materialistic empire cannot outlaw robots.

So those are rules.

And basically, the Airbud precedent applies.

The Airbud king-making precedent.

There's nowhere written in the rules

that a dog can't be a despotic emperor of a genocidal space-faring legion of starships.

And by the way, that's a dig at you, Kyle.

You're a dog.

Dictator dog.

Something I was going to find in your favor?

You're out there trying to take over the galaxy and destroy every other species?

That's disgusting.

I don't care if it's in the rules.

Beyond that, I have two issues.

One, a southwestern border.

What are you talking about, Kyle?

It's space.

There's no southwest in space.

And two, I have no issues with our political differences.

Wow.

You're a genocidal tyrant, Kyle.

Extremism

is not a political difference.

It's not something you hash out

and come to common ground on in a chapel in the middle of Kansas, just as an example.

Super Bowl dig.

No, I stand for freedom in the galaxy.

And even taking what you ask at face value, please order Kevin and Lewis to stop bringing additional civilizations into their federation.

It's a federation.

What are they supposed to do?

Not federate?

They're trying to block you from taking over a peaceful empire.

You want me to order them to not expand their empires the way they see fit?

That's how they want to do it.

They want to stop you, Kyle, and I'm with them.

Lewis and Kevin, go get them.

Go get them.

Shut down all tyrants.

Make no compromise with tyranny.

Jesse Thorne, I'm sorry.

I had to go on a little rant there.

I spaced out because I was looking at the

internet page for the show by Dougie Fresh and Slick Rick, or technically by Dougie Fresh and the Get Fresh Crew.

Yeah.

Cashing checks, making sound effects, and after I finish rocking, Slick Rick is on next.

It's one of the greatest tracks of all time.

You know who produced that record?

No.

Teddy Riley.

I didn't know Teddy Riley.

I knew he produced Rumpshaker.

I knew he produced Michael Jackson's Dangerous.

I knew he produced No Diggity, one of the greatest R ⁇ B songs of all time.

Teddy Riley produced a show, or at least programmed the drum machines.

People are probably writing me letters saying, well, by your own definition,

Under Pressure by Freddie Mercury and David Bowie is not a duet because they are not really singing in dialogue with each other.

They're just singing their separate parts.

So now you don't have to write me that letter.

I wrote it to myself.

Yeah.

Teddy Riley.

Go listen to the show.

Go listen to, what is it, Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson's Poncho and Lefty?

Yeah, great song.

Go listen to I Got a Man by Positive K.

Do that during the break and then come on back.

You know it's a good Merle Haggard song?

No.

Kern River.

Listen to that song.

Jesse, you sang a Merle Haggard song, didn't you, at one of our live shows?

Weren't you singing a Merle Haggard?

Yeah, I love Merle Haggard.

What was the song you were singing?

You would open the show with a little Merle Haggard tune.

Mama Tried.

Mama Tried.

Great song.

You would go out there, solo, and open the show with Mama Tried.

And guess what I was doing?

Flossing?

Hanging around backstage, singing with you a duet.

Ah,

isn't that sweet?

Let's take a grand break when we come back.

Listener interaction.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes.

Episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lollum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, a tribute to Teddy Riley, Virginia's own Teddy Riley, you know, a mentor, Teddy Riley, a mentor to both Timberland and the Neptunes.

Really?

Yeah.

Virginia is one of the most, if not the most important regions of the United States in R ⁇ B and hip-hop production, and it's because of Teddy Riley.

Okay.

Guess what I just learned?

What's that?

I don't know if this is true.

I was out here saying it was criminal that the woman who raps on I Got a Man by Positive K is uncredited on the Wikipedia page.

I just found another page that says, no, it's not a woman.

That's Positive K with his voice tuned up.

Whoa.

Whoa.

No longer a duet.

Also, I was starting to think that maybe you don't love the song I Got a Man by Positive K, Jesse.

Is that correct?

It's fine.

I don't love it the way that I love the show by Dougie Fresh and Great Fresh Crew.

The show by Dougie Fresh and the Fresh Crew is one of the greatest tracks of all time.

We're from different generations, John.

I love What a Man.

You love I Got a Man.

I Got a Man.

I'll say this.

It was a really big part of my enjoyment of coffee at the Daily Cafe in New Haven.

It was a big banger that summer.

All right.

Jesse Thorne, sometimes we get get letters.

You know, I get all kinds of letters at hodgman at maximumfund.org, and I love getting letters.

Some of the letters occasionally present disputes for us to resolve.

Either in the docket or in the not-too-distant future, we hope we're going to live litigation.

Others are just writing in to just tell me how wrong I am about how many holes are in a straw.

And still others are very touching letters about how much this podcast has kept them company these past months in particular.

And we are grateful to be a distraction to you.

And frankly, thank you for keeping us company.

But this letter comes from listener, Alexandra, pertaining to a case that we just heard.

Dear Judge Hodgman, Bailiff Jesse, Joel the Main Man, Mole Man Man, and Jennifer Marmor.

I want to thank you sincerely for deciding against me.

Oh, I like this so far.

Last Thursday, I was awake at 4 a.m., anxious and disoriented.

I was anxious because I was awaiting results of a COVID test that I had to get after being exposed to a positive case at work.

I was disoriented because I was sleeping in the guest bedroom of my home until I got my test results to protect my husband and kids.

So I turned on the podcast and I began to relax.

But then,

Bailiff Jesse Thorne read my email from August of 2019.

It took a while for me to fully understand that it was my email he was reading, but sure enough, it was me being wrong about the term dead end.

Jesse, you remember that one?

Yeah.

It was whether a T intersection constituted a dead end.

Right.

Because she was giving people directions to the community pool in her town in rural Maine.

And she was like, go to the T intersection, what she called a dead end and take a left.

And then Joel Mann and I got upset because, Joel, are there community pools in rural Maine?

No.

Right.

So then listen to what she had to say.

Judge, I understand why you and Joel don't believe that I had access to a community pool in rural Maine.

Back in 2019, I had only recently moved to Maine, so I don't think I fully appreciated the rarity of my situation.

However, it is true.

The town was Bridgeton, and my family and I were renting a home in an association neighborhood near Shawnee Peak.

And to the left of the dead end, there was a beautiful outdoor pool.

Anyway, I'm happy to concede my misuse of the term dead end.

The next day I got the call that my COVID test was negative.

I told everyone who had listened that my case had been featured on the podcast.

I made my kids and husband listen.

It was the highlight of my week, and there couldn't have been a better time for you to include my old email on the dock at Alexandra.

Well, thank you, Alexandra.

Joel, what do you know about Shawnee Park?

Shawnee Peak is a ski area.

Shawnee Peak, it's a ski area.

Yeah, I used to live over there.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right, Joel.

Shawnee Peak is a ski resort near Bridgeton, Maine.

And I mean, I guess that there was sort of like what they call a neighborhood association.

It makes sense that there might have, that there might have, that I could be wrong, that there might have been a pool there, that there might have been a community pool since it was a resort community.

And so as part of my apology to Alexandra for doubting her, I decided I wanted to I wanted to see this pool to check if there was on the map a pool

at a left branch off a T intersection.

It would be so exciting to see it.

But then I discovered something that took me by surprise.

Jesse Thorne, I know you're a duck-duck-go kind of search engine guy.

Yeah.

I like to keep my privacy private.

Yeah.

Would you mind opening Google just one time?

Sure.

All right.

And I want you to type in with me, and listeners, you can do this as well if you're not driving.

Shawnee, S-H-A-W-N-E-E,

Peak, P-E-A-K, Main,

swimming pool.

This is what I searched because I wanted a picture of this pool.

Go ahead, hit return.

There's just a big box at the top of the results screen that says Shawnee Peak/slash pool.

And then in giant bold letters, it says, doesn't have a pool.

doesn't have a pool

I didn't know that this was even a feature of Google

so Alexandra I'm so glad you're feeling better

I'm so glad you get to sleep in the same bed with or near your husband and your kids again glad you don't have COVID

I'm sorry about that scare.

I'm so grateful for your letter and thank you for keeping us company and thank you for letting us keep you company.

But I don't know what kind of crazy ghost pool you were into, because Shawnee Peak doesn't have a pool.

Case closed.

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is the ever-capable Jennifer Marmer coming to us this week live via video conferencing from the studios at maximumfun.org, where she is holding things down.

Our engineer in Maine is Joel Mann, Program and Operations Manager at WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine.

You can listen to WERU at weru.org, and you can follow Joel on Instagram.

His handle is the main man, M-A-I-N-E-M-A-N-N.

Hey, Jesse, let me just jump in real quick.

Did you know

that on the streaming service Disney Plus, they own all the Marvel movies that are famous for their mid- and post-credit sequences?

They have an option after the movie ends.

You just press a button and you skip the credits to go directly to the secret, semi-secret post-credit sequence.

Did you know they had that?

No, I had no idea.

We don't have that feature.

So just proceed.

Not since we bought that one Danzig album and had to skip to track 93 to hear the song Mother 93.

No, you can't skip the credits on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

That doesn't mean there's something after the credits.

You just can't skip them.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Follow Glenn Danzig as he putters around the front yard of his home in Los Angeles, where I saw him one time.

Usually he's like carrying some kitty litter for his cats.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohnhodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, and check out the maxfun subreddit, maximumfund.reddit.com to chat about this episode.

A very fun thing was happening on the subreddit last time I looked, which was people were trying to put together Judge John Hodgman bingo cards.

Yes, I know.

And it was less insulting than I expected.

Yeah, it was adorable.

It was adorable.

Yeah.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org slash JJ H.O.

or email Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello.

It is I, the mouldering ghost of Judge John Hodgman, greeting you from the bottom of the empty pool at Shawnee Peak, Maine.

The pool that never existed!

It is here where we bury those scary, creepy child letters that are sent to me long after I've asked you to stop sending them to me.

Such as this piece of ghost writing I just found stuck here in the pool drain.

It is from James.

He writes, Your Honor, I understand and I am aware that submissions for creepy children were closed recently, but the rules don't apply to me.

Ha ha!

Just kidding, James had a family emergency.

I hope everything's okay, James.

In any case, resume letter reading.

I keep very early work hours.

I sleep on the couch in the living room to avoid waking our one-year-old daughter at 4 a.m.

A few weeks ago, I was awoken, though, by my five-year-old standing over me at 2 a.m.

Very confusing setup, James.

Daddy?

My five-year-old asked.

Yes, I said groggily.

If I drain all the blood from a dead person, will it stop them from coming back to life?

I stammered out a,

why do you need to know that?

And she replied,

Don't worry about it, Daddy.

I'll take care of it.

She then walked back to her room and went back to sleep.

I'm sorry about your family emergency again, James.

I hope everything is okay.

And to answer your child's question, yes, child of James, even if a person is dead, even if you drain all the blood from them, they will still write you letters about things their children say.

Parents cannot help it.

Here's one more from Rob.

A scary kid quote from my four-year-old.

Mommy,

have you ever killed a horse and ate it?

No, child.

I have.

In the underground world.

Okay, I'm freaked out now.

That's too weird.

That is all for this segment from the bottom of a pool that never existed in Shawnee Peak, Maine.

But before you go, consider this dismaying observation.

This segment has no windows and no doors, which offers you this chilling challenge to find a way out.

Of course, there's always my way, an obscure cultural reference.

All right, that's it.

Go home, everybody.

The show's over.

MaximumFun.org.

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Artist-owned, Audience-Supported.