Garbagemas Eve

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me is real judge and fake doctor, Judge John Hodgman.

That's true.

I'm not allowed to practice fake medicine anymore.

They figured out I was fake.

Hey, by the way, here's to all of the real doctors out there and nurses and health professionals and all the helpers who are helping and all the grocery workers and delivery people and everyone who's got to be out there in the world rather than sealed hermetically in your fake internet court chambers like me.

I'm here in Brooklyn, New York, as always, where today, Jesse, it started with sun.

turned into, I don't want to use the word apocalyptic, getting tossed around a lot these days, but very heavy rain and lightning storm, then beautiful sunshine again, then another heavy rain and lightning storm.

And now it is one of the most gorgeous spring days I've ever peered out at through the curtains during a global lockdown.

And you're at home, right?

Yeah, I'm in Shaythorne.

Yeah.

As it is known to no one.

I spent my morning.

It's been actually, we have not yet had spring here in Los Angeles.

Right.

It just seems like it's coming over the mountain right now.

So we have a very beautiful day today.

It'll get hot later this week, but we have a beautiful day today.

And I took my dog for my dog sissy for a very long walk so that I wouldn't have a panic attack.

That's the thing about,

there was a lot of snow up in Maine, I heard from my neighbors in April.

Here it's been cold and gloomy.

And today was just such, like it's unnerving to watch the ecosystem go through the mood swings that I am going through.

And yet it feels comforting.

Like even the atmosphere is going, like, yeah, I don't know what to do either these days.

You know, like, it's like, I'm lucky I woke up today, said the atmosphere.

Have some lightning.

My friend Dan Kennedy, a writer and

moth podcaster, Dan Kennedy, said something the other day that I have taken to heart, which is an old AA saying, aphorism, or at least 12-step aphorism, which is move a muscle, change a feeling.

So

when I'm having bad feelings, which I have had many times, I am trying to turn those into physical actions so I can release some of that juice.

And

it helps a lot.

It helps a lot.

And just one muscle will do it, huh?

Just move one muscle?

I'm basically, yeah, just the idea, it's about isolation, right?

Any physical trainer will tell this.

So I'm working on my latissimus dorsi

right now.

Yeah.

What's that muscle in in real human talk Jesse remember I'm a fake doctor the lat that's the lat yeah I'm working on an involuntary muscle I'm working on a hundred percent 24 seven deployment of the twitch above my right eye that's the one I'm working on

yeah

I've been twitching too yeah a lot of twitches is this what being a twitch streamer is That's exactly what it is.

No, we're podcasters.

And this podcast is called Judge John Hodgman.

And the good news is, first of all, my jeans still fit.

Second of all, I managed to get a couple of Diet Cokes from the world.

Third of all, we're here back with you to dispense some internet justice.

Clear in the docket.

Why don't we get started?

Here's something from Amelia about grocery delivery services.

Hi, Judge.

So my mom has started ordering groceries to be delivered to her house due to COVID-19.

She is older and has pre-existing conditions, so it's understandable that she would be scared to go grocery shopping.

On the other hand, my aunt Diane and I have been talking, and it just sort of feels elitist to have your groceries delivered to you.

So in that case, should people who don't have pre-existing conditions be switching to grocery delivery, or should they be going to the grocery store and possibly risk spreading their germs around?

Let me know.

Thank you and wishing you all the best.

Emilia.

This is the horns of a dilemma.

We're stuck on the horns of the dilemma.

And boy, I hope someone purelled those horns.

Jesse, what is your foraging system these days?

Well, let's set aside the ethics of this question.

And instead, I'm just curious, what's your foraging situation these days?

I'm doing all the grocery shopping for my family because I'm the biggest and the best able to weather the roving gangs.

You know, the public health advice has been, if possible, to shop every two weeks.

I think with my family of five,

that is not very manageable, especially for fresh food.

Right.

So what I have been doing is going to the Pasadena farmers market once a week.

That's my Saturday morning activity.

The line takes a while because it is very spaced and they are having limited interactions within the market itself.

But, you know, I cover up and bring my hand sanitizer and take care of business, fill a couple big bags with fresh food.

And then I have been trying to do the regular grocery store as infrequently as possible.

So I would say

somewhere between

somewhere around every other week I'm going to the regular grocery store.

And then

to the extent that I have needed, if we plan badly and run out of milk or some other child necessity

that is like a basic.

There is a convenience store near my house and there's also a

what they call a mother's nutrition center,

which is

sells groceries that are convenient for people who have food vouchers, but also sells groceries to the public.

And they have a really good kind of, they bring you the food system for just for basics, you know, just breakfast cereal, milk,

bread, things like that.

So I've gone there once or twice to fill in in an emergency.

But yeah, the general answer is once a week at the farmer's market,

every other week at the grocery store.

And then I've probably been to a convenience store or the mother's nutrition center three times in total.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the general message from the court of Judge John Hodgman is

do the best you can.

We're all, you know, we're all under an extreme extreme amount of mental load if we're lucky enough to be under zero viral load so far.

But of course, what you pointed out, Jesse, in jest is like, you know, you're being the largest one, so you can hold your own against the roving, you know, Mad Max gangs.

There is a feeling, right, of

apocalypse, you know, to empty streets,

whether it's in Los Angeles or in New York and stay-at-home orders.

It's very hard to take in without making reference to the only frame of reference we have to this sort of thing, which is popular culture.

And the problem with popular culture is, and specifically zombie popular culture, it has trained us all to think of ourselves as the heroes of the story, A, B, as the uninfected.

who C, must avoid the infected, the zombies, at all costs.

And that means barricading yourself in your house or dressing up like a samurai or doing what it takes, bugging out and getting out of town or doing what it takes to protect yourself and your family.

But the situation here isn't that we are all protecting ourselves from roving gangs of zombies.

We are the gang of zombies.

We don't know how this thing works.

And lots and lots of people have it who don't show any symptoms, who may never show any symptoms.

And they have to watch and we have to watch where we rove.

That's what this is all about.

This This is what all this staying at home is all about.

We can't be roving around like packs of zombies biting people.

Our job is to not zombie bite other people, not just to not get bit.

Now, I think what you're doing sounds very super responsible, Jesse, and you're covering up and you're minimizing contact because that's how this thing spreads.

I think what your mom, Amelia, is doing is absolutely appropriate.

You know,

I shout out to all of the volunteers and services and workers who are bringing groceries to people who are immunocompromised or have preexisting conditions or simply elderly who simply can't, you know, can't afford literally to go out shopping.

And that's absolutely right.

And as far as you as an individual, as an asymptomatic person who doesn't necessarily have a preexisting condition, you know,

I think that the job here is to lessen the load on hospitals, on essential workers, on the people you're living with.

That is to say, make sure you shower and do your dishes and go easy on confusing dad jokes.

Don't ask for the kung pao chicken all the time.

Like,

reduce the mental load, as the French comic artist Emma puts it.

And I think that going out to the farmer's market or to the grocery store and following the guidelines that they are asking of you, because it's in their interest to keep everyone healthy, especially their workers, That's helping in the way you're asking to be helped, right?

Because that allows the delivery people who are essential workers

to make more and frequent deliveries to the people who cannot afford to go out into this world.

But when you go out, go out responsibly, cover up, right?

Wash your hands, put on your face mask because you don't know what you might be coughing or spreading around.

Keep your distance, really keep your distance, go easy on the jogging.

I mean, I know everyone needs to have fitness in the the world, but you know, like walking through Prospect Park,

it's not just joggers, also bikers and inline skaters and walkers.

And everybody kind of forgets when you're in a beautiful spring park that, you know, you can't really be going over and huffing and puffing near people.

You have to, you have to get out of the way.

And then do the best you can to get what you want.

And the other thing I would just advise

under these circumstances, specifically only,

we all know that the best way way you're getting a ripe tomato is to lick all of them and then take the one that

tastes the best.

That's probably not a good idea.

I've had people in my family who have been homebound

and needed groceries to be delivered to them in order to be responsible, both, you know, both because in some cases they couldn't leave the house physically, but also because

if they were ill, they did not want to leave the house for obvious reasons because they wanted to be responsible to others as well.

And I think probably as a general guideline, if you are

able

to leave the house to get your groceries and able to do it as infrequently as possible, you know, every other week or so, please, please do that.

If you're not, don't feel bad about it.

Exactly.

Do your very best,

bearing in mind to lessen the load on others.

Don't lick the tomatoes.

And Amelia, I think you're doing great.

And by the way, Jesse Thorne, speaking of delivery of food, you're doing a wonderful fundraiser for Meals on Wheels on social media, correct?

Yeah.

We've raised some thousands of dollars for Meals on Wheels.

And I know that our friend Ayella Waldman has organized a thing in the East Bay called East Bay Feeder, Feeder,

which has a GoFundMe.

And what they're doing is buying, they are buying meals from local restaurants in the East Bay and then delivering it themselves.

They're volunteers, right?

So they're putting themselves in this and then delivering it to healthcare workers in the East Bay.

And here in New York,

there is an organization called Invisible Hands that is started by Liam, one of my wife's former students, that is taking all of these college students who came back to New York with nothing to do and training them in stringent

sanitary practices, and they're just going shopping for elderly people and other immunocompromised people.

There might be something like this, Amelia,

in your neighborhood that you might want to spread the word about, at the very least.

There's a lot of good work being done during these hard times.

Here's something from Courtney.

Hi, Judge Hodgman.

My partner likes to keep the shower curtain closed at all times.

It looks nicer and reduces mildew buildup.

Now, finally, we're getting to something important.

I sometimes get irrationally anxious that someone may be hiding behind the curtain.

When I inevitably pull back the curtain to alleviate my anxieties, I first need to overcome a surge of adrenaline akin to the expectation of a jump scare in a horror film.

My partner doesn't take these anxieties seriously and continues to close the curtain even when it is dry.

Should I work through this admittedly irrational fear, or can people just fear what they fear?

Hmm.

I don't know that those are the two choices, John.

How would you identify the choices?

Well, I think there are a couple of

issues at play here.

One is, I think it seems clear to me that Courtney's fear really interferes with her life and is much more important than the desire for to not look at the tub.

You think it's more important than mildew buildup?

Wait a minute.

Do they have their exhaust fan directly over the shower?

And so the idea is that it

sucks the steam out better if it's not having to suck from the whole bathroom.

I don't know.

I don't know what the words you're saying are.

I think what the Courtney's partner likes to keep the shower curtain closed so that it dries

rather than having

after being wet left, you know, if you take a shower and then push the curtain aside and it just lays against itself in a pleated fashion, I can tell you from personal experience, mildew builds up there.

And it's gross.

But I hear what you're saying.

Like, you know, in a devoted, romantic partnership,

even in a devoted, non-romantic roommateship, someone's feelings are more important than mildew.

I would say that that said,

Courtney should work through this irrational anxiety

and not out of obligation to her partner, but because it will improve her life.

And this is exactly the kind of thing that cognitive behavioral therapy is good at.

It is good at a lot of different things, you know, but

focused cognitive behavioral therapy, or even simply its principles,

could really transform this part of her life.

And from what she's describing, a real surge of adrenaline every time she's using the bathroom, it would, for me, be worth it to do that work.

But I don't think that she needs to do that for her partner, but rather because it would improve her life.

Sure.

I mean,

this is a challenging time to seek therapy.

There's a lot of teletherapy options out there.

But equally so, Courtney, you can rest assured, now more than any other time, there's probably not an extra person in your apartment.

But I get it.

Courtney, I want to I want to say this.

I feel you on this.

Bathrooms are scary.

And I'm a man who is about to turn

49 years old.

And I would say it is only within the past two years that I've gotten over the conviction that if I am not out of the bathroom by the time the flushing stops, I will be possessed by the devil.

Conviction.

Absolute conviction.

After the flushing, I would go back in, wash my hands.

But I'm like, this goes back to, you know, my whole pre-teen exorcist

period terror of being possessed by the devil.

And I still feel it.

Like, it's really hard to get over these things.

I absolutely sympathize, Courtney.

But I think you're going to be okay.

I think you will be glad if you work on this a little bit.

And I think, Courtney's partner, you'll be glad if you are supportive of Courtney's work here.

I hope you are not diminishing of her feelings, even though it is not likely that there is a scary person

in the shower.

Now, Courtney, if you will, please honor my judgment and please step away from the podcast.

Turn it off for a second, because I have a message just for your partner about how your partner can support you.

Courtney's partner.

As soon as this is all over and we kind of go back to normal and we can be together again, email me your address.

We're going to have a fun time.

No.

No, this is going to help.

I'll come over to your apartment

and the next time Courtney's getting ready to have a shower, I will hide in there and I'll go, surprise!

I'll have the kung pao chicken.

And that'll be great.

Don't you think, Jesse?

That'll get her over it, don't you think?

I don't know if that's what a therapist would recommend.

That's why I think it might be worth seeking a professional's opinion.

Or maybe reading a book.

Well, all right, it's a race.

Courtney, it's a race.

Do the best you can, given the circumstances, to do a little research into cognitive behavioral therapy

or

get ready for a surprise from your Judge John Hodgman.

You never know where I might turn up.

Let's take a quick break.

More items on the docket coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week.

We've got something from Jessica.

She asks, What day is garbage day?

Tuesday.

Why?

I believe that it's the day the sanitation workers come around our neighborhood and pick up our garbage and recycling.

My husband says it's the day prior when we put out our garbage and recycling containers.

His logic is that it's the day we are actively engaged in garbage pickup.

My logic is that his idea doesn't make sense because garbage day is the day the garbage is picked up and words have meanings and we can't just dissolve into anarchy.

Thank you.

I like the idea of

in what appears to be a heterosexual marriage that it's the wife that is

ending with the flourish: words have meanings, we can't dissolve into anarchy.

That's fun.

Yeah, that's an unusual twist.

I can only assume she's jabbing the air with a pointed finger.

First of all, can I just say I'm so glad garbage is being collected.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Thank you, sanitation workers.

Thank you, sanitation workers.

God or whatever, bless you.

Exactly.

I don't, you know, Jesse, for me, this is a, I have a feeling on this, but it's mostly a feeling because I live in a multi-unit condominium apartment building.

And we have a garbage room where we can take our garbage any day,

night, dawn, gloaming, twilight, whenever we feel like it.

It's a remarkable thing.

And Baron, our superintendent, on the appropriate days, packs it all up and puts it out on the street.

Thank you, Baron.

So for me,

I think Tuesday is garbage day on our block.

That is to say, the day it is collected.

What would you call garbage day in your neighborhood?

I would call it the day that it's collected because words have meanings and we can't just dissolve into anarchy.

Yeah, the night before has a special name:

Garbage Night.

Garbage Eve?

Garbage Miss Eve.

Celebrate it.

Honor it.

And also honor the sanitation workers.

You pack that stuff up the night before and you put it out on the street.

It doesn't disappear, Jessica's husband.

People come and get it for you.

Honor them.

Best garbage miss ever.

Here's something from Joshua.

My wife is firmly opposed to this idea.

She thinks it's a waste of time and money.

Help.

Left behind.

I said left behind.

I'm like left behind in the rapture?

That's where my mind is going.

Oh, they're only going to be playing, what is that Nintendo game called Bible Wars or something?

There was a left behind branded video game based on the popular 1990s series of rapture-themed commercial thriller novels.

But I'd never played one.

Wow, really?

The one I was thinking of was called Bible Adventures for the Nintendo.

Was that for the Nintendo?

Nintendo Entertainment System.

Yeah, yeah, the NES.

Do you have a...

Now, look, you have three children, kind of in this age range.

Yeah.

Do you have a video game system in your home?

John, I have three.

One for each.

Here's how it happened, John, because I don't want people to think that I'm the kind of guy that goes out and buys three video game systems.

It takes me by surprise that you would spend worthy tweed and ascot money on video games.

But then I'm always surprised by people's hobbies.

So please tell me.

Well,

I have had for many years an Xbox.

Right.

And then one time on Jordan Jesse Go, my comedy podcast with my friend Jordan,

I was complaining about how everyone was talking about playing Spider-Man, but they don't have Spider-Man on Xbox.

Right.

And somebody that works at Sony

went into their press room and found a PlayStation and mailed it to me.

What?

Which is the only time that something like that has really worked out, except for, well, one time a guy who runs social media for can you handle bar mustache wax sent me a box of mustache wax.

It's very nice mustache wax.

That's incredible.

Well, you don't need it right now because you're clean shaven.

Well, I'm getting back there, but I don't need it yet.

And then, so for some time, I had this PlayStation that I only used to play baseball and Spider-Man because they also don't have baseball on the Xbox.

No.

So then

my friend Jordan Morris texted me at the start of Safer at Home and he said, hey, I have a Nintendo Wii U.

Do you want that for your kids?

And I said,

I don't know.

And he said, it has Zelda on it.

And I was like, yep, I do want it.

Because I wanted to play Zelda.

Another game that they don't have on Xbox.

And so he brought me this Wii U.

And the Wii U is actually

my kids don't really play on the,

my oldest is eight, and they don't really play on the Xbox or PlayStation.

We've got a couple of sort of puzzle games, but it's just, you know, the games that are maybe content-wise appropriate for them are not really developmentally beneficial to them.

Right.

I would say.

They're mostly kind of

hyperactive

reaction time games, you know, jump, jump, jump, jump, slash, slash, slash, slash.

Right.

And they tend to be, they tend to be, even the ones that like don't show blood or whatever, they tend to be violent in theme.

Right.

Um, but for the, uh, for the Nintendo Wii U, which is a semi-failed game system that came out between the Wii and the Switch, um,

they, it has, like, a motion controller and stuff.

Yeah.

And you can get like, and I got a few sort of like exercise games and dance games and stuff, which sometimes is

actually useful for the kids.

But I'm generally, frankly,

I'm more likely to side with the mom here.

I don't think they need to worry about getting left behind.

No.

And

I don't think, generally speaking, that

while I like video games and I'm not opposed to them, I don't think they're a priority

for brain development or whatever.

Like, there there are certainly video games that

are good for brain development,

but mostly for older kids.

And, you know, I mean, I think there will be a point where you won't be able to stem the tide.

That's my general parenting philosophy is

only buckle when you have to buckle.

Don't advance buckle.

Here's the thing, Joshua.

As you know, I am a parent of two human children.

They are teens.

And they've had video games in their lives all their lives.

Our friend Jonathan Colton is a parent to two slightly younger children, and they've had video games in their lives available to them all their lives, on tablets and consoles, etc.

And our friend John Roderick of Maximum Fund's own Friendly Fire podcast is a parent of one child, a younger child, a daughter.

And he was very concerned about this issue of bringing video games and screens in general into his daughter's life.

He felt that, you know,

while there is value and fun there, these are essentially dopamine-producing mechanisms.

And he would make the point that there are great brains

that evolved in our world

before there were video games.

Nikola Tesla is one.

Grace Hopper is another.

Lots and lots of them.

Lots and lots of people got smart.

I think it's just the two that you said.

No, no, many, many more.

I think it's just two.

Many, many more got smart and learned hand-eye coordination before video games hit the scene.

And he was very struck about this.

And he said to Jonathan, I remember because John Roderick told me this story.

He said to Jonathan, how are you not concerned

about what screens this relatively new technology is

will do to your kids and their and their emotional and functional development.

And Colton said to Roderick, Well, that's they said the same thing about television.

I want my kids to grow up in the in the world.

This is the world.

We don't know what it will do, but we've never known.

And I want them to be a part of this world.

And technology

is a remarkable tool.

And whether you like it or not, it's here.

And John Roderick was like, Yeah, I guess you're right.

Well,

guess what?

Jonathan Colton's kids have grown up happy and healthy so far.

One of them likes this stuff more than the other does, but they are wonderful, full human beings with a lot of fun and engagement.

My children have grown up having played a lot of Wii games back before the Wii U when it was just the Wii,

including old school Animal Crossing, which is now sweeping the nation and the planet.

And yet, I would ask, now that we are safer at home home altogether all the time,

that you,

Jesse, call your friend at PlayStation

and ask them to please come and take away the PlayStation in my house.

If PlayStation can give it, may they also please take it away?

Because we live in an open concept apartment where the living room and the dining room and the kitchen are all the same and basically also part of all three bedrooms.

Wait, did you say the

living room, the dining room, and the kitchen?

I think what you meant to say was the gaming parlor.

That's right.

From the moment my son wakes up until distance learning has to start.

And then as soon as that's done, he's back at it.

It is pure Apex Legends, I think is the thing now.

Talking with his friends, whatever.

And it has taken over the whole apartment.

And I'm not against video games.

I love games.

I wish I had time to play games.

They are a legit form, a meaningful form of storytelling.

It's how my son engaged with story.

But here is what staying at home has taught me.

We all need to do the best we can.

We all need to be kind to each other.

Apex Legends is an important way for 14-year-old boys to socialize during social distancing, but it's not as good as walking around together in the world, which I hope we can get back to.

And open concept living was a horrible, horrible idea.

People need rooms.

People need privacy.

So

ultimately,

ultimately, your beef here is with home-flipping television series.

Yes, and I'm glad and surprised to say that I am friends with the Property Brothers, but we need to have a talk about this.

People need rooms

and walls.

But also, my point is this, Joshua.

When you bring this into your house, it's all over.

This will never go away.

It will stay with you for the rest of your child rearing.

So it's an important decision and one not to take lightly.

We're all doing our best, and we all do the best we can, but

at this point, you have this unusual opportunity, right?

Where the peer pressure outside your house isn't as strong as it would be as if those kids were going to school and going over and playing with each other, playing with other kids' house, seeing video games, coming home saying, I want this, I want this, I want this.

While I think it's a definite parenting life hack and sometimes life-saving hack to deploy a fun, wholesome game that the that a Nintendo system might provide so that you get a little bit of a break you also have a real advantage right now to help your kids build a lifelong love of reading and enjoying non-video game content because we know that as soon as everything gets normal again that's going to be a part of their lives

the decision is yours to make Joshua but I agree wholeheartedly with my bailiff and yours, Jesse Thorne.

You are making this argument in bad faith.

You are in no way concerned with your children's development.

You want a Nintendo Switch for yourself so you can play Animal Crossing just like everybody else.

Admit that,

and then you and your partner can have a conversation about this.

But don't come to me trying to get me to say this is going to help a two-year-old's development and social cohesion with their peer groups or whatever.

You just want to play Animal Crossing.

You want to build an island and rule it like an animal.

I wouldn't wouldn't if I were you, Joshua, but whatever you do, do it in good faith.

Let's take a break.

When we come back, we'll hear a case about apologies.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week, and here is something from Brian.

I'm seeking an injunction against my wife Courtney.

When our four-year-old son mistreats our dog Brick, she will correct our son and then insist that he apologize to Brick.

While he should, of course, be corrected, I argue that an apology to an animal is the phoniest of all phony apologies.

An apology is meant to soothe the offended, not to punish the offender.

Dogs don't understand regret or most human emotions.

Please order her to cease.

I like that the dog is named Brick.

I was just going to say the same cat named Looper.

Love films of Ryan Johnson.

The hamsters are the brothers, Bloom.

Yeah, that's right.

And

what other kinds of pets are there?

I should know.

I've been interviewing a bunch of them.

Well, there's one final Jedi.

There's one last Jedi.

And then there's Knives Out, the parakeet.

Knives Out!

Knives Out!

That's scary.

Never mind.

Don't do that.

Yeah, I think we can all agree Brick is a great name for a dog, but I think Jesse will probably agree that Brian is wrong in every possible way here.

As you know, Jesse Thorne, because you've been a delightful guest, or I should say your dogs, Coco and Sissy, have been delightful guests on my Shelter at Home Times side hustle, Get Your Pets, my weekday daily talk show on Instagram Live with people's cats and dogs and other pets.

I started this thing,

I used to do it a little bit last year just for fun, but then I started, once everyone had to start staying at home, I was like, I want to see some pets.

It'll make me feel better to see some pets.

And I bet it would let it would help some other people to feel sort of less alone if they get to see other people's pets.

And so this is a plug.

I'll plug it.

So I'm not making any money off it, so it's fair to plug.

FTP.

Every afternoon, pretty much on a weekday, I'll set up an Instagram Live and interview all these incredible cats and dogs and snakes and parakeets and everything else.

And I've learned a lot about all of these pet havers all over the world, public healthcare workers in Cape Town,

park rangers in Ireland, teachers in Hawaii, all over the place.

And I've learned a lot about animals too, particularly dogs, which I've never owned a dog.

And I understand more about dogs and their behaviors and their quirks and how, when they are anxious, they will yawn and lick themselves, such as when a stranger from the internet is talking at them, asking about how their day has been, and that's why that's happening all the time.

But one thing I've definitely learned about dogs is

they are very, very, very, very sensitive to human emotions.

They get it.

They are wildly empathetic creatures who absolutely understand regret, for sure.

And I think also sympathy and kindness.

So don't say, Brian, that they don't understand human emotions.

Don't think that dogs don't understand human emotions just because maybe you don't, Brian.

Even if the dogs of the world were not the wildly empathetic, emotionally sensitive creatures they are, but instead the borderline sociopaths you think they are and maybe are yourself, Brian.

Apology modeling is good.

Apology is not meant to simply sue the offended.

It is meant to punish the offender.

It is to humiliate in the greatest sense, to force humility upon the offender and to reset the relationship.

And phony apologies are a part of this too.

Phony apologies ease friction in close quarters.

By phony apologies, I don't mean completely insincere apologies, but apologies you give even though you think maybe you're still right.

You apologize to someone because you know it's the right thing to do.

Phony apologies are almost as important as sincere apologies.

And in that spirit, Brian, let me say this to you.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry for suggesting that you might be a sociopath.

Is that a real apology or a phony one?

You'll never know.

Yeah.

Apologize to your dogs.

Brian, I order you to apologize to Brick.

Say, I'm sorry, I thought you didn't understand human emotion and be nice about it.

Don't do it the way I did, like really yelly, or I'll bite you.

We have an update from Jeremy and Allison from the dispute and baby makes plea, which we heard with our friend Nick Offerman as expert witness.

So the two of them couldn't figure out how to make room in their home for their new baby while also maintaining a guest room and keeping Jeremy's workshop space.

Allison writes, Over about three months, Jeremy cleaned out and reorganized his workroom to make a guest room for my parents, turned that stack of mahogany into a gorgeous dining table, tore out the dog run in the backyard, leveled and re-solded the yard, and helped me transform the Hodgepodge Lodge into a viable nursery.

However, let me break in here.

First of all, Jesse, to clarify, the Hodgepodge Lodge is what they were going to name

what would become the nursery.

And second of all, Jesse.

At the time, it was, yeah, a pile of discarded stuff from their house.

Right.

And second of all, Jesse, just again, to break in, I apologize.

In the past three months, have you made any dining room tables?

I have not made any dining room tables recently.

Did you re-sod anything, a yard, or even a patch of grass?

My son and I planted some sunflower seeds.

Well,

we've got.

You know what?

They also may have been ranch-flavored.

Were they David's brands or Biggs sunflower seeds?

Oh, David's all the way.

I'm the ballplayer.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's a good thing.

You did more than I did in the past three months, at least in the sodding and building department.

For people who are just doing their best, good job, Jeremy.

All right, go on with the letter.

However, my mother would like to complain that I made her sound, quote, like a decrepit old woman, unquote, on the podcast.

In fact, she slept just fine on the air mattress when she came for the baby's birth.

So I think we can stipulate she's not decrepit and is capable of sleeping on an air mattress, though there is no need to make anyone sleep on an air mattress in a situation where air mattress sleeping is not necessary.

True enough.

Settled law.

We welcomed our son into the world in July.

He's nine months old now and an absolute love.

We're grateful for him every day.

Meanwhile, Jeremy's Mustang is coming along nicely, and she started a side hobby, drawing cartoons.

These people are too productive.

Yeah, I forgot about the Mustang hobby, too.

Wow.

I have to be frank.

This is embarrassing me i previously i was just able to uh attribute it to like they have more rooms than i do because they live in a different part of the country yeah different style

where you can just have rooms yeah uh but now i'm now i'm out now i'm against them this table's too pretty yeah you can see really nice looking table you can see the picture of this table on our Instagram at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman, as well as on the show page at maximumfun.org, as well as some yet-to-be-finished but beautiful judge john hodgman themed needlework to be hung in the hodgepodge lodge and jesse i've checked out allison's comics and they're very cute and charming and you can check those out at kick feet comics on instagram uh k-i-c-k we'll put we'll put a link into the show page kick feet comics on instagram

Glad it's going well for you all there.

I look forward to coming to the Hodgepodge Lodge and hiding behind your shower curtain as soon as possible.

The docket's clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, and check out the maximum fund subreddit to discuss this episode.

You can submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash jjho or email hodgman at maximumfun.org.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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