Live From the Murmrr Theatre in Brooklyn, NY

Hi, it's me, your Judge John Hodgman.

This week's episode was recorded live at the Murmur Theater on Eastern Parkway in my home borough of Brooklyn, New York.

Let's go back in time, shall we?

Brooklyn, New York City, you've come to us desperate for justice, and we're here at the Murmur Theater to deliver it.

Friends, let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome Denise Denise and Jeremy.

Tonight's case, fragrant abuse of the law.

Denise files suit against her husband, Jeremy.

Jeremy has a keen sense of smell and is often sniffing around the house and commenting on how things smell.

This bothers Denise.

She'd like him to stop talking about smells.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Now follow along.

Monkey chicken chicken.

Monkey chicken duck duck.

Chicken monkey monkey chicken monkey chicken chicken monkey duck monkey duck chicken duck monkey monkey duck duck chicken monkey chicken chicken monkey chicken monkey duck

got it

Bill Chesse Thorne swear them in

Denise and Jeremy please rise and raise your right hands do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God or whatever

I do I do do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he lost his own sense of smell in a discotech accident in 1979

i do i do judge hodgman you may proceed that was a terrible night when i lost my sense of smell at a discotech discothech accident yeah that's right because i fell i fell nose first into that pile of cocaine drugs

jeremy denise you may be seated for an immediate Summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of popular culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Denise, let's start with you.

It's a Dr.

Seuss book.

A Dr.

Seuss book.

I'm going to write that down into the guest book here.

It's a pretty good guess.

Could be right, could be wrong, but we'll see.

Any particular Dr.

Seuss book?

Chicken, Monkey, Duck, Chicken?

Absolutely.

Monkey Chicken Duck?

Okay, yeah, all right.

That one.

Horton, here's a chicken duck.

All right.

Jeremy, do you have a guess?

I have no idea.

I'm going to go with cats.

It was pretty jellical.

I have not seen that show or that movie, but I'm going to go ahead and say, you're correct, you win.

No, Augustus are wrong.

That was the first verse of a song called Chicken Monkey Duck

by an artist that you know, Jesse Thorne, Mike Furman, the very funny musician, singer, songwriter, and performer from his album, The Very Last Songs I Will Ever Write, Part 1.

And do you know why I chose Mike Fuhrman to be the obscure cultural reference?

Because Mike Fuhrm suffers from a condition called anosmia.

Can't smell anything.

Has no, I know, gasps.

One gasp.

Or maybe one incredible inhalation by someone who is grateful grateful to have a sense of smell.

And he knows me as, and he was born without a sense of smell, and he can't taste food either.

Isn't that sad?

Remember that this is being recorded.

This is an audio podcast.

You can respond.

Thank you.

Yeah, right.

Very sad.

But Mike Furman isn't sad.

He's happy.

No, he's happy.

He's a nice man.

He's happy.

But Denise, you're sad.

I'm sad.

You're sad because Jeremy is smelling too many things.

He has the opposite problem.

He's not only

a a nosmatic,

meaning he has a sense of smell, but he's nauseming all the time.

He's a super smeller.

Tell me about the problem at home.

So he

talks about smells a lot.

Sure.

Outside the house and in the house, and he smells things that most other humans don't smell.

Certainly, I don't smell.

And

this is a problem for so many reasons.

It makes me feel like I live with a slightly crazy person.

And now that we have a kid, she is picking up on this and thinks,

not only is it okay, but we should talk about smells a lot.

And it's becoming a problem.

Talk to me about the smell talk.

Like, what's the smell talk sound like?

What is that smell?

What does it smell like in here?

Vinegar.

There's a lot of vinegar talk.

Things smell like vinegar a lot.

It's just a constant curiosity about

what is this smell when there is no discernible smell to anybody else around.

Is this a smell that you also smell?

No.

This is just a smell that only Jeremy smells.

Jeremy and

some a few other select people who suffer from this condition.

What is the condition you suffer from, Jeremy?

I don't know.

I think vinegar smells bad.

You do or do not think that vinegar smells bad?

I do.

I think it smells bad.

Do you smell vinegar right now?

No.

Do you smell toast?

I feel like my sense of smell is

normal.

Jeremy, can you?

Wait, wait, is...

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, Jesse.

Is or is not normal?

Is normal.

Is normal.

And the records show that Denise is shaking her head wildly.

Jesse, what was your question you wanted to ask?

Jeremy, describe what you smell in the room right now.

Yeah.

You can't just say nerds.

I actually can't smell anything.

You can't smell anything?

Yeah, I can't smell it.

You're stuffed up?

You came to our show stuffed up?

I'm sorry.

Smelling's your whole deal, man.

Everyone knows Jeremy's thing is smelling.

Now you're worth nothing to us.

You're not even worth, you're not a human being to us now.

You're just a non-smelling husband.

You guys are married?

We are.

And you have one child?

Yeah, we have a three and a half year old.

And

it would seem that you're expecting as well.

Congratulations.

Fantastic.

So.

Describe a situation in which Jeremy's smelling and talking about smelling is disruptive to your life.

So he will open our fridge, which is very clean and

stores clean,

unmoldy food.

And he will select some Tupperware and he'll open it and bring it up to his nose

and not say anything and just put it back down.

Does he know that he's being observed?

No.

No.

This is just something that's not.

Honey, that was my special time.

This is just something you do for yourself.

I usually smell food to see if it has gone.

It smells like vinegar.

Yeah, it smells like vinegar.

You brought in some evidence, including a photograph of the refrigerator.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Let's take a look at that, please.

Exhibit A.

Yeah?

You see, it's clean.

You wouldn't expect that anything in there habitually on a daily basis smells bad.

I'd probably give that Tupperware in the bottom shelf a sniff.

I mean, the refrigerator is clean, but I'm just...

I hadn't thought about it till now, Jeremy, but I was like, yeah, I'd probably give that one a sniff.

Probably that other Tupperware on the left

on the second to bottom shelf underneath that old Ricota cheese or whatever, I'd probably give that a sniff.

That one that you're describing, John, the most interesting thing to me about that is it's like a 84-ounce Tupperware containing like two ounces of quinoa.

Yeah,

looks like, yeah, it looks like that tablespoon of Orzo you have in that one Tupperware is probably ready to go.

Now, I noticed that you store your walnut oil in the refrigerator, which is great.

You know,

that prolongs the life and the freshness of oils.

Where do you store your vinegar?

Sprinkled all over the house?

We have a little section for oils and vinegars.

Yeah.

So when you catch Jeremy sniffing the fridge,

does it merely gross you out, or are you to some degree insulted?

I am insulted because he knows this food went in there one or two days ago.

So I know it's not about checking for has it gone bad.

It's because of this innate curiosity about smell.

And he has confessed it prior to tonight.

He's just intrigued and wants to know what's in there.

And I'm like, it's the same thing that was in there yesterday when we ate it.

Wait, you'll double sniff a Tupperware to see if it's changed?

Jeremy, answer the question.

Sometimes I like the smell of food.

So

Jeremy, does this ever get you into trouble as befits your reputation as the curious George of sniffing things?

I mean, I feel like one of the things I like about food is how it smells.

What's it like going to the restaurant, the restaurant?

You know, the restaurant?

Sure.

What's it like going to any restaurant with Jeremy?

Terrifying because he also will occasionally do it at restaurants.

He'll do it at my mother's house, which I find highly insulting.

And it's different if he picked it up and then commented on the smell, like, mmm, delicious, but it's just the silent sniff

and puts it back down.

And everyone's wondering,

what's the verdict?

With respect, Denise, I feel like I'm getting two versions of the story from you.

One in which the problem is that Jeremy is sniffing without talking, and one in which he is sniffing and talking too much.

So it's both.

One is just wandering around the world about smells that I don't smell, and then the other is specifically as to food.

So it is two very distinct problems.

Denise, what was the most unusual smell that he has ever remarked upon out in the world?

Hmm.

But the record showed Denise is breaking down into tears.

That's not true.

I thought for a minute, I think.

I don't know that there's anything unusual, and he often can't answer what it is, but he just expresses that there is a smell and it is strong, and what is it?

And

I can't play the game because I don't smell anything.

Do you mean that you smell smells that you don't know how to describe?

Sometimes.

Do you ever smell colors and words?

No.

Do you think that you have...

It says here that I should ask you about smelling gas in the apartment.

Did that happen?

Yeah, like maybe a month ago,

I smelled gas.

Did you do anything about it?

Maybe you were a little still foggy.

Well, he had smelt it and dealt it.

I almost didn't because I knew Denise would get mad at me.

But I did ask her if she smelled gas out in our hallway of the apartment building and asked her to smell it.

And I think the second time I smelled it, so did she.

And somebody had left a pilot light out.

And oh, okay.

And so what ended up happening?

Did you deal with it?

Yeah, she lit the pilot light and it was fine.

So it was.

That's what you're supposed to do when you smell gas.

Just light a match as quickly as possible.

Clear it all up.

Yeah.

So it seems like Jeremy saved your life.

But that was a real smell.

Did he or did he not save your life, madam?

He did.

He saved all of our lives.

But it was a real smell.

And when he said, he really was hesitant to point it out because he thought I'd get mad.

But once he did, I went out to the hallway and it did smell like gas.

Let me investigate.

You said that was a real smell.

Do you think he's faking his smelling?

No.

So my concern,

in light of the fact that his father and brother also admit to being super smellers

i've done some research and while super smell is not in and of itself a problem other than it drives spouses crazy um it can be indicative of underlying disease now do you have evidence one of my concerns

to point to that so let's go to the next exhibit please right that is not the disease that's not the super smell

Who's this person?

Who's

one of the innocent victims of all this talk?

But the records show that this is a photo of their daughter.

This is

a three and a half-year-old daughter who will get on the subway, which admittedly can be a stinky place, but because she thinks we should talk about smells, she will stare at somebody and say,

Mommy, what's that terrible smell?

While she stares somebody down.

So this is causing social problems on the side.

Social problems.

She will do it in taxis.

At Jeremy's birthday party, we had a small group around the table and she declared, Mommy, I can't sit here.

Somebody smells bad.

Are you of the parenting opinion that children should be smelled and not heard?

Next exhibit, please.

Okay, this is what you were talking about.

This is what the records show for those listening at home.

It is a

couple of paragraphs of text, some real homework for me.

I don't appreciate.

But it's the Monel Center Advancing Discovery in Taste and Smell.

And I'd just like to draw the audience's attention to the logo of the Monel Center, which is an M for Monel with a big nose in the middle of the M.

And a slightly agape mouth, which we can only presume is tasting.

That's right.

That's right.

Good point, Jesse.

Thank you.

At Monel, world-class scientists are unlocking some of the most fundamental mysteries of what makes us human.

How do we use our chemical senses to communicate?

What are the cellular underpinnings of taste and smell?

What a scam this center is.

You can tell it's a scam because there are three pieces of what is clearly stock photography on this page, and someone just obviously just typed in science, science, noses.

Now, look, I'm sure the Monell Center at 3500 Market Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, telephone number 267-519-4700.

They're reputable

scientists studying smell and taste.

And what is the purpose of this info dump that you gave to us here?

Well, so this is, and this came to me from a reputable journalist friend who has done research on smell when I asked her, remind me that place you went to.

So this is just to say, this is a thing.

People study smell, and there's a place Jeremy could go to get evaluated.

This is not the slide that talks about the disease I think he might have, but this is just to say this is an actual field of study, and just a short train ride away, we could get some answers.

So, you're suggesting that Jeremy should subject himself to some tests like a laboratory animal in Philadelphia.

Or they can refer us to somebody in New York, but

I think, John, what she's suggesting is that there's a place where Jeremy and people like him are wanted.

So

this is not just a matter of- We should be institutionalized, is what you're saying.

No, it's not just a matter of personal annoyance

and worry about what my children are learning, but if there is an underlying disease, I'd like to know so we can be proactive because there's another slide that will show it's scary stuff.

Let's go to that exhibit.

Okay, this is a slide, more text

on a screen for a podcast.

Thank you for bringing this challenge to me.

I appreciate it.

I like that you've highlighted the information on this page in the style of a political attack ad.

I will read it like a political attack ad.

Fact.

Boom.

fact.

Hypernosmia is a heightened or increased sense of smell, explains EMT specialist and rhinologist Raj Sindhwani MD.

People can experience it all the time, or occasionally, occasionally, occasionally.

And while hypernosmia doesn't always require treatment, it can signal an underlying health issue that does, does, does.

Okay, so the underlying...

Not only is Bernie Sanders not Henry Rollins, he's not one of the many other lead singers of Black Flag.

So it says hyperosmia, hyperosmia, which is the opposite of anosmia, is relatively rare.

Doctors usually don't know why someone develops it.

But there are a seemingly endless list of things that may be to blame, including epilepsy, Addison's disease, psychiatric conditions, this little throwaway, could be anything.

Lyme disease, multiple sclerosis.

Your concern is that your husband might be suffering an undiagnosed condition for which the only symptom is him sneaking into the refrigerator to smell his upperwear.

In light of the fact that his father and brother also have this, I think it's possible.

that he falls into this category of it's indicative of something else.

And not on this list, but I also read in a lot of places Parkinson's Parkinson's is on that list.

Jeremy.

I'd rather know now.

Jeremy, do you believe that this is a sincerely held concern of your wife's, or do you think this is a trumped-up line of argument for the purposes of this podcast?

Let the record show that Jeremy's face suggests it smells a little fishy.

I think there's

something genuine, some genuine concern.

Are you open to being tested for hyperosmia?

Sure.

Great, because I have a little unscientific test of my own.

I brought along some smells.

I'd like to see if you can identify them.

Take your glasses off, please.

Okay.

And put this knit cap over your eyes.

Pull it down over your eyes, please.

Don't worry.

The only last person to wear it was me, and I don't have...

Great.

Now you look like first season daredevil.

Just realized.

Can you see anything?

No.

So I have here a series of smells, famous smells of Brooklyn.

I'm going to place

this smell under your nose.

Please trust me, none of it is vinegar,

nor is it natural gas.

And tell me what, if anything, you can smell.

Okay.

I was like,

chocolate.

Chocolate is correct.

Specifically, a famous Brooklyn chocolate egg cream.

Good job.

Would you like a sip?

It's not poison.

Sure.

I'm putting it in your hand now.

Guess what?

We switched Jeremy's regular egg cream with poison.

Denise, I just solved your problem for you.

Good test so far.

If I had asked you to identify it as an egg cream, would you have been able to?

No.

No.

All right.

Seems like pretty normal smelling to me.

This is a paper bag.

You can put your nose, I'm putting it in your hands.

Don't mush it up or anything.

Just put your nose into the top of the paper bag and smell.

I can't tell what it is.

Can't tell what it is.

The plot thickens.

Would you like to smell it?

I'm afraid it's a dead rat.

Dead rat?

He said it's Brooklyn smells.

Who do you think I am?

Jared Letta?

You can see it.

What did you say?

She smells like a paper bag.

Well, it does.

I mean, it isn't a paper bag.

Good job.

It's a junior's cheesecake.

Yeah, it smells like a paper bag to me, too.

So that's.

Can I hand this off to super producer Hannah?

Here, just give that to someone in the audience.

It's a junior's, a little mini one.

They call it a little fella.

Let me see if there's one that has a real smell to it.

Oh, yeah.

How about this?

Just for the at-home listener, these are the kinds of paper bags you would put a dog poop in to light it on fire and put it on someone's.

That's why everyone's so nervous.

Yep.

All right, I'm putting another paper bag.

And you know what?

I'm going to.

Will you hold my microphone for one second?

Tear the top off of it so you can get

closer to the smell.

Is that a bagel?

It is a bagel.

What kind of bagel?

Everything.

Everything bagel is correct.

Now,

Sherlock,

can you tell me the provenance of the bagel?

Is it

North Slope, South Slope?

South Slope.

That's correct.

I mean, that was a 50-50, but that's pretty incredible.

When it comes to bagels, there's nothing more important than what the French called terroir.

Terroir.

I will rule in your favor whatever it is you want.

If you can tell me where this bagel comes from.

South Slope.

The bagel hole.

Yeah!

Holy cow!

Wow.

Wow.

You should rule in my favor after that.

Well, that's not the promise that I made.

There are a lot of decisions I'm questioning now, for sure.

I mean, my heart heart is beating very fast.

The bagel hole, if you don't know, is a south slope bagelry.

It's a bagel chateau.

A house of bagel hole.

And it is the best, they are the best bagels.

Do you live near there?

Yes.

Oh, have I seen you on the street?

Probably.

You'd be the one who knew.

Yeah, let me rephrase.

Have you seen me at the bagel hole?

No, but on the street.

My favorite thing about the bagel hole is it's really

And I apologize, Michaela, aside from its beautiful bagels, it's a shole.

It looks like a place where you would be murdered.

And yet,

on Union Street and 7th Avenue, this is some really Brooklyn stuff.

On Union Street and 7th Avenue, there is a

super high-end gourmet store, which is lovely, but very, very fancy.

And at the front of the counter, they always have...

like five bagels and they say bagels from the bagel hole like they were imported

like they had been imported 15 blocks.

What is it that you want me to rule now that I am ruling in your favor?

I just want Denise to not get mad at me when I talk about smells.

Let the record reflect that he said that so sweetly, he got sympathy points over a visibly pregnant woman.

Everyone here is like trying to give him their seat on the subway right now.

Denise, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

I would like him to not smell food so frequently in my presence, especially food that I've made or that is in our communal fridge and hasn't been there long.

I would like him to talk less about smell in front of our children

and I would like him sometime in 2020 to go to a specialized ENT to get confirmation of what's going on.

I have a question.

One question for each of you before I go into my chambers.

I had so many other smells down here.

Maybe I'll try another couple with these other smells.

The question I have for you, Jeremy, is:

I mean, you have an acute sense of smell, whether or not you are

hyper-osmic,

would you agree?

Yeah.

You smell a lot and you like smelling things, and you like talking about it.

Right.

You often smell things that Denise can't smell.

Yes.

Right.

And so, when, how does it make you feel when you are talking about smells and she cannot

she cannot hear you?

And you can't talk about it with her

because

you're a man of very few words, which has been very challenging for this podcast.

You did say two important words, bagel and hole, that it will

go down in history, so I appreciate that.

You know,

you're living this life of the nose.

How does it feel that you cannot share that?

And you are being asked to not share it with your wife?

I mean, I like

talking about whatever I'm noticing with Denise.

I talk more to Denise than most people.

Clearly.

So I like, I

like talking to her about whatever it is I'm noticing or smelling.

So it's a little sad when I can't talk to her about it without her getting a little upset, but I also don't

like upsetting her.

Right.

And Denise, you've asked me to order that Jeremy not talk about smells and his inner life in general in front of your children.

Have you ever caught him, I mean, some people read to their babies in utero.

Have you ever caught him with like a scratch and sniff book while you're asleep

scratching sniffing over your belly for that new baby?

Not yet.

Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to descend into my stinky cheese cave.

I'll be back in a moment with my word.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Jeremy, are you proud of your sense of smell?

Yeah.

Does it bring you benefits in life?

Yeah,

sometimes I do a little writing and it's helpful to like notice smells.

I like it when JoJo, our daughter, smells, talks about what she's smelling too.

I think it's kind of fun.

What about when she smells someone stinky?

I like that less.

I assume you don't aspire to bring her to any cons.

I don't know if you've ever smelled those.

No.

How are you feeling about your chances in the case?

Pretty good.

I think I made my case pretty well.

Plus, you did that one amazing thing.

Denise, how are you feeling about your chances?

Hmm.

Well, I think he made my case pretty well, but I think the judge thinks my request is too extreme.

So what I would like is for him to talk about smells less, not zero.

And not just to me.

Spread it out.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and delivers his verdict.

First of all, I have to pick this bagel hole bagel up off the floor.

That's hurting my feelings.

I love you, bagel.

Last time I flew home to Los Angeles from Brooklyn, I brought like 20 bagel hole bagels in a bag on the airplane, like some kind of bagel smuggler.

They'll never sponsor us.

Oh well.

So, Jeremy, I'm a judge of my word.

I posed a challenge to you,

a smelling challenge, and you passed.

I said that I would find you in your favor, and I will.

I'm going to order Denise to not be so mad at you all the time about the smelling.

But that's all you asked me to do.

So while I am ordering, so while I am officially ruling in your favor, officially,

there are some orders that I can make that do not counteract that ruling.

First of all, smelling's great.

It is one of our greatest senses.

And yet, why are you laughing at that?

It's one of our greatest senses.

Top five at least.

You're right that if I had to lose one, smelling would be the first one to go.

Because we don't rely on it that much.

I mentioned before that you looked like when you pulled that black knit cap over your eyes, you looked like season one Daredevil on Netflix's Daredevil, R-E-P, R-E-P, R-I-P.

Never mind, forget that.

But so smelling is one of the wonderful ways that we, I mean, without smelling, we don't taste food, and food is fantastic.

I don't mean to brag, but I eat it in order to live.

And yet, it is associated, culturally, with suspicion and even disgust.

It's a warning sense, right?

It's the first sense you deploy to figure out if something is rotten or poison.

There is the term smell test.

where you put something to the smell test and if it smells fishy, it's wrong.

Smell is associated with

impure foods and poisons and stuff.

Smell is a way, you know, smelling is a way of conveying condescension, being sniffy about something.

It is a disruptive thing to do all the time.

If you are constantly going...

It's gross, right?

I'm doing it for you.

I don't know if you can hear so good, but it's gross.

You smell what I'm cooking, though, right?

It's gross.

Smelling is gross.

And I think that it is reasonable that Denise would feel a little bit,

even though I don't think it's your intention, to feel a little bit critiqued, even when you are constantly going to the fridge day after day to smell the same Tupperware.

Similarly, when you go over to her mom's house and you hold the plate of food up to your nose, you do it, don't you?

You do hold it up up to your nose, don't you?

Don't you, sir?

Don't wait for the translation.

You do it.

I usually don't.

Usually don't.

Yeah, sometimes he does that thing with his hands where he brings the smell up.

Yeah, right.

Do you smell with your hands?

Do you waft the odor into your nose?

I would never do that.

No, okay.

He lifts the whole plate up.

He lifts the whole plate up, I say, right.

So that's gross and bad manners.

You shouldn't do that.

And you certainly shouldn't go like pretend this delicious bagel is some of your mother-in-law's gross food.

I'm sure it's delicious.

Like one thing you shouldn't do at the table is like lift up the food to your nose and go

and then just silently put it back down.

That would suggest that the food is lacking in some way.

These are just matters of politeness.

Now what you do in your own time in the middle of the night with that refrigerator is up to you.

And while I think that hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

It is unlikely

that you

have multiple sclerosis, Addison's disease,

psychiatric conditions.

I think you deserve to go and to put Denise's mind at rest and go to a specialist ENT and be tested to find out if you're some kind of superhuman mutant.

Because that would be awesome.

If you had super smelling and

it was diagnosed, that would be an

incredible skill to own, even though it would probably compel you to fight crime, which is dumb.

I agree.

I don't know why Daredevil has to do it.

I don't know why when he gets super smelling, suddenly it's on him to stop human trafficking in hell's kitchen, but

he did it.

But you deserve to know if you are a superhuman mutant.

And I think that it would put everyone's minds at ease if you ruled out that you might have some underlying health condition.

But you seem like a very nice, if somewhat silent person.

And I stick by my word that I find in your favor.

And Denise, don't be mad at this nice...

silent smelling man that you married.

And don't deny his influence upon your daughter.

She might be a a super smeller, too.

She might need his guidance.

Do you know what I mean?

To deal with her superpowers.

They spent two hours alone yesterday, and he came home and reported that she had four smell comments in a two-hour period in our neighborhood.

Yeah, he's sharing with his own daughter.

It's beautiful, and I allow it.

This is the sound of a gap.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules that as well.

Denise and Jeremy.

That was great.

We got to hear some real justice there, but we have more justice to dispense.

We also have more Brooklyn smells to dole out.

So hold on, John.

We do not have much time left.

If we're going to dispense more justice, I think the most we could give it is 15 minutes.

Yeah, let's dispense some swift justice, put 15 minutes on the clock, and call the first case.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Caria and Waze.

Caria and Wazey.

Caria files suit against her wife, Waze.

Wazey believes their relationship anniversary is on February 14th.

Caria believes they should celebrate on February 7th.

That was technically their first date.

So

Caria and Wazey,

who seeks justice before me?

Who brings this case?

And you are?

My name is Caria.

Carria.

This is my wife, and

I bring her here.

She's never heard the podcast, by the way.

That's fine.

How does it seem so far, Waze?

Do you get the gist?

It's all right.

Okay.

Somebody's playing to win.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

So we,

there's two issues kind of very tightly connected

We dated for a while We broke up we got back together and we started dating February 7th of 2008

This is the point of dispute obviously Yes, so this is this is the point of dispute So the the main dispute is whether or not we celebrate the day we went on our first date or some other Which would be February 7th Which would be February 7th or some other date that she has picked out

some random date called February 14th.

You know, what's that?

Arbor Day or something?

Yeah.

So just

threw a dart at a calendar.

So that's the main dispute.

And the secondary dispute is

whether or not the time that we dated in our previous relationship

when we before we broke up and got back together and have been married for 11 years, whether or not that previous time,

whether or not that previous year and a half counts towards our relationship total, I think it obviously doesn't, and other people disagree.

So you mean the time that you were broken up should, in your opinion, Carrie, should not count towards the bottom of the total.

No, no, no, but the year and a half where we were dating before we broke up should not count towards our relationship total.

Oh, it should not count at all.

No, no, it should not count.

Restart the clock after the

breakup and then I disagree with that.

Okay, Waze, what's your side?

So February 14th is when I felt like like I began to have feelings for her and I felt like we were really a couple again.

February 14th.

Is that in your date book?

No, but like she said, we had broken up.

So I did think a lot about

us getting back together.

So on February 7th, which she insists was our first date.

Because I asked you out and you said yes and we went to dinner.

But in my mind, I was still trying to work things out.

So I was not very clear about

how I felt comfortable going forward, even though I went out on the date, yes.

May I just clarify the timeline?

Yes.

So

February 7th, this date in contention.

Yes.

Carrie is calling it your first date, but let's just call it February 7th.

This is after you had broken up.

You had been together, broken up, and this is the beginning of starting to get back together.

Yes, right?

And we were separated for four years.

Yes.

Right.

So it was not something that I took lightly that we were.

But your implication is Carrie was taking it very lightly.

Your implication is the first time you saw each other again on February 7th, Carrie's like, we're dating.

Something like that.

Okay.

To be fair to me, we had seen each other before that time.

And when we saw each other previously, I asked her out on a date.

And I said, would you like to go on a date date with me?

And she said yes.

And that date was February 7th.

What did you do on this maybe date, February 7th?

We went out to...

Oh, you don't even remember.

Waze, do you remember?

I don't even remember.

Yeah.

We went out for a sushi on Smith Street in Brooklyn.

Yes.

Now, Wazey,

I want to get your line of argument straight in my head.

Yes.

Your line of argument is that the two of you officially became an item when you got comfortable with the idea.

Because this is just for a little bit of context for you.

I've been with my wife for 22 years.

And

if the point where I got got comfortable having a life partner and being in love and all of those things was our anniversary, our anniversary would be two weeks ago.

Congratulations, by the way.

Thank you.

It's a good time to take a break and go on tour.

Let's see this boat.

You went on this sushi date, or sushi meal.

Yes.

Yes.

Just call it neutral meal for now until I decide.

And then February 14th of the same year, seven days later.

Seven days later.

You were like, you know what?

I'm into this now.

Did you do something on that day?

Can I add that on that date, she told me, she said, and I quote, I am not looking for anything serious.

Yeah.

And my first piece of evidence is a picture of our wedding date,

August 2nd of that same year.

Oh, let's take a look at that.

Oh, look at that.

Wow.

It's a beautiful photo of you together on your wedding day.

You even, I mean, this was 2008?

Yeah.

You even sprung for the Instagram bubble filter, which is amazing.

I don't even think that was developed at that time.

So that's...

No,

that was a beautiful day.

Where did you get married?

Just like a friend's house in New Jersey.

Like, we just...

Friends back there.

A friend's

yeah, we're everyone gets married.

A friend's house in New Jersey.

New Jersey, the wedding.

But again, let the record show that Carria did not seem sure at first where she got.

It's like, it was a friend's house in Iowa.

What does it matter?

Is this the only piece of evidence you have, or is there a

related to the case, but I think the bailiff will really enjoy it.

Let's see.

Oh,

That's Carrie for the ad home listener.

We're looking at a picture of a pretty kitty.

Yeah.

That's her cat who hates me, as you can see from her eyes.

As I'm giving her the hook, she's not happy.

No, she clearly has not had a moment.

She's like, I feel comfortable with this relationship.

That date is yet to come.

What is her name?

That's Lady Bellatrix

La Fluffy Pants.

No, Bellatrix.

La Fluffy Pants Esquire, something, something.

It's long.

It's long.

I've got it.

Right, sure.

Well, it's a jellical cat, so she's got a lot of names.

Right.

Next slide, please.

And

another cat.

That is her cat.

That's my cat.

That is

Sir Stuart Ford Fluffy Pants Esquire.

And she is adorable.

Sir Stuart Ford Fluffy Pants?

In the Instagram.

That's in the car.

Sure.

That makes sense.

In the context of that whole name and a cat.

Fluffy Pants Esquire.

And may I just say,

this cat is sitting on top of a cupboard, staring down the camera, wishing it to die.

One of the greatest wide cat stances I've ever seen.

Like this is the closest I've ever seen a cat standing arms akimbo before.

Do you know what I mean?

Like their their elbows should not be able to do what he's doing right now.

His title is Esquire, but he appears to work as a bouncer?

He's a door cat of the jellical ball.

It's like, no, no, you're not getting in tonight.

No.

And this is how he sits.

This is just him.

Yes.

Any more delightful evidence, or is this it?

No, that's it.

That's it.

Wonderful.

Well, obviously I find in both of your favors, but let me ask this question.

Oh, I want to add something.

My wife is a public school teacher, and she came out here on a school night on a Monday, and I really appreciate that.

Thank you very much.

That's fantastic.

No problem.

Yeah.

I don't believe you.

I think some problems.

It's not easy to be a public school teacher.

I happen to know.

I'm not one, but I know one very well.

Carria,

what do you do all day?

I have a YouTube channel called Crafting Carrier.

No problem.

And I do really long form reviews of things like pencil erasers, like 30 minutes.

Yeah, I like this a lot.

Long-form videos of reviews of pencil erasers.

You could have just shortened that to, I live in Brooklyn.

What's your YouTube channel?

Tell us how to find it.

It's a Crafting Carrier, K-A-R-I-A.

Crafting and then Carrier.

That's fantastic.

All right, I'll check it out.

So

why is it important to you to locate this anniversary on this particular date?

Because it just matters, and I just want to be able to plan our anniversaries and to do it.

And we argue about it every year.

Every year it's an issue, and some years nothing happens because we're, you know, we're debating over.

Now, this year,

she had a really good gift this year.

Yeah, she was really unfair.

Like, it was so good, it's not fair.

So,

so that's this year, but other years, like, we don't really know.

Like, there's no, you know, so I would like to be able to plan and say, this is what I'm doing.

This is the date it's going to happen, and not have it be like.

Is it important to you that you locate the date on February 7th?

Because that was the date that you chose to invite Wazey back into your life?

Yes.

But isn't it the case that the 14th is the date that Wazey mentally chose to accept you back into her life?

Yes.

Yeah.

I say you celebrate them both.

Carrie a day and Wazey Day.

You know,

normally it's the opinion of this court that

once you get married, that's the date you share and you forget dating anniversary because that's kids' stuff.

Sorry, kids.

But if you're going to celebrate two anniversaries anyway, it might as well be three.

There's going to be February the 7th, which is Carrier Day, February 14th, which is Wazey Day, and then August the 8th.

Is that right?

August 2nd.

The 2nd, excuse me.

August the 2nd, which is Carrie and Wazey Day together.

This is the sound of a gap.

Carrier and Waze, please welcome to the stage Karen and Jamie.

Karen and Jamie, hello.

Hello,

which, who, who here sees?

What is your bowl?

Hang on.

We'll get to their bowl, sir.

I know it may not seem like it, but I have this under control.

I also have noticed that Jamie has brought to the stage a large bowl-looking object.

So be calm.

We shall take care of it.

This guy's like, a bowl?

That's one step too far.

Jamie?

What is is your bowl?

It's a pie, man.

It's a pie?

That's a deep dish pie that you've got right there.

It's a pie.

All right.

Who comes?

I mean, I see that you brought a pie to the court.

Who comes to seek justice before me?

I do.

And what is the nature of your dispute?

I like to bake pies.

Can you ever be separate from them?

Occasionally.

Okay.

I seek a ruling that I can make as many pies as I like for Thanksgiving without being made to feel guilty about it.

I see.

And Karen, you feel differently?

I feel that there should be a two-slice-per-person estimate, and that when you actually make one-third of a pie per person who are coming to Thanksgiving, that's too much.

Karen?

But I have a reason.

No, no, Karen.

I'm on you.

Look.

What is your profession, Jamie?

I'm a judge.

Yeah.

Would it be ethical

at this point for me to say to Karen, I'm on your side?

Not in the slide.

Not ethical, okay.

Good to know.

That's a hypothetical.

Karen, what is your profession?

I'm a prosecutor.

Counselor!

Provisionally speaking, I'm on your side.

I only say that because

you're not making, for a prosecutor, you're not making a very strong opening argument here.

What I would expect to be a strong opening argument is, my husband makes too goddamn many pies.

But you're already deep in the weeds of like, there should be a rule of two slices per person at Thanksgiving.

All I'm asking is for some small accommodation.

If each person got half a baby.

It just makes me feel like he's already...

He's already sucked you into his worldview.

And I want you to step out of his worldview for a second where you have to appease him and simply say, how many pies does this guy make at Thanksgiving?

I think you need to answer a really deep question, which is,

at what point and in what manner does pie become a problem?

It was a problem because he actually hid.

his sixth pie from me this year.

So he made five and hid one?

I had to go to the refrigerator and start counting.

I said, you didn't make five pies, which was already too much.

You made six.

At least you didn't find it

taped under the top of the toilet.

It was one way you had to reach up to the toilet.

They say that any relationship that you have to hide or lie about is not a healthy relationship.

Did you hide a pie from your wife?

I didn't hide a pie.

I just didn't advertise that I was making it.

Your honor!

The ingredients were out in the open.

My shopping list was out in the open.

You were not present with your family on an important holiday.

Can I just say that while he's baking these pies, I'm not doing nothing.

I am peeling, I am chopping, I am prepping, I am doing the boring stuff of Thanksgiving on Wednesday so that on Thursday everything can go into the oven so we can host.

So you're doing, your contention is you're doing all of the work of Thanksgiving while Jamie is just going pie mad.

Yes.

I see.

Let's take, you have evidence?

Yes, we have to.

Let's take a look at the evidence.

Please forgive me, listener at home,

for not initially describing this photo.

There's a lot to take in.

First of all, they apparently live on the set of a reality cooking show.

I mean,

this kitchen's amazing.

This is like, so for the listener at home,

There's a long counter that is

has

sorry, I'm gonna get there.

There is a large, huge counter down the middle of this kitchen with a beautiful ceramic sink on either side.

The counter itself seems to be surfaced with a chalkboard type material so you can write things on the, this is like a Nancy Meyers kitchen.

This is an amazing kitchen.

And it's full of pie!

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and then this pie pie casserole in the shape of an American flag.

What is going on

in this scene?

How is this not a portrait of obsession?

Which one of you chooses to describe it?

All right.

It's Harold's picnic.

There's nothing but pie, but there's all nine kinds of pie we like best.

What do these words mean?

It's from Harold and the Purple Crayon.

Oh, is that?

Oh, I see.

Yeah.

Harold and the Purple Crayon.

American pie literature classic.

It's been a long time since I've read that book.

Is this, Karen, what is the story in the Harold and the Purple Crayon?

I thought he just drew that Purple Crayon, drew a dragon, and went home or whatever.

Was there a big pie scene that was torn out of my copy?

There is.

Okay, what happens?

I don't remember, honestly.

He's on a boat, and he reaches or draws a beach, and he lands, and he decides to have a picnic.

Right.

And for his picnic, there was nothing but pie.

But it was all nine kinds of pie that Harold liked best.

And Jamie would kind of get stuck on that line and say, I may know my top three pies, but what are my top nine pies?

And so we started a tradition of having Harold's picnic, and Jamie would make his nine favorite pies that year.

And we would invite all of our

and we get a bunch of kids over, sugar them up, and send them home to their parents.

Wait a minute.

There's a lot for me to take in.

So, this pie festival, this Harold and the Purple Crayon nine-pie feast,

this isn't a thing you did once, this is a tradition.

Sort of.

How many times have you done it?

Four.

Four.

Wow.

And then you kidnap children?

Briefly.

Do you have children of your own?

Yes.

We do.

What happens to them?

They just watch the other children eat the pie?

There's always enough pie for everybody.

Okay, good.

But you're into this, Karen.

Look, you're wearing a Herald and Purple Crayon shirt.

I am supportive of him.

I even made him the shirt he's wearing.

Which says, do you want some pie with that?

And you're holding, and Jamie, you're holding the 420 Blackbirds Pie book.

That's a great Brooklyn reference.

Yeah.

Great pie.

How did you get into baking pie?

I don't know.

My mom takes a break.

No, you probably don't know.

My mom baked a lot.

I decided to try baking.

What's that?

My mom baked a lot.

I decided to try it.

When was this that your mommy taught you to bake?

Oh, well, my mom baked when I was a kid.

Right, okay.

And then

10 years ago?

Yeah, 10 years ago,

circumstances changed.

I needed to pitch in more to do the cooking at home, and I liked doing it, and then I decided to make dessert.

Right.

So you are the designated.

So what you're saying basically is, about 10 years ago, you recognized the need to pitch in a little at home.

And you thought to yourself, what's the least practical and helpful thing I could do that would lead to me getting the most credit?

That's about it, yeah.

I mean, you have to acknowledge that pie making is all about flair.

Do you know what I mean?

Whereas peeling a rutabaga

is like quiet scut work for which no one is applauded.

You know, I'm not sure.

If you come out with a pie, everyone's like, oh, pie.

Or like, what's in the bowl?

Everyone's excited about it.

How do you answer the accusation that you're not helping enough, say, at Thanksgiving, because you're making extra pies that no one asked for?

Okay, well, here's why it's not an extra pie.

It's enough pie.

I looked at our pie menu and I realized we have to have pumpkin, we have to have apple.

But now my brother is coming and he likes the bourbon pear pie that I've brought you because I know you've got an alcohol molar.

He's not going to be happy with the other pies.

I want to satisfy all my guests.

We don't need two different kinds of turkey, but we do need different kinds of pie.

Next slide, please.

Was this your Thanksgiving spread?

Yes.

1, 2, 3, four, five.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Wait a minute.

Two, four,

five, six, seven.

Seven pies.

And two of them look identical.

Why did you have that X?

What's the red one?

Tomato soup cake pie?

Is that some kind of Dracula pie?

Go ahead.

It's a cranberry curd tart, which we have trouble saying because we keep wanting to say cranberry turd cart.

Yes.

I now remember when I initially received your email regarding this case, you wrote out, and I will post this in my own evidence on the Judge Sean Hodgman Instagram, cranberry turd cart.

And that's what I was like, wow, I have to hear from these people.

For how many people?

18.

Close to 20.

Close to 20.

And we gave one away to our neighbor.

What's that?

We gave one away to our neighbor.

One away.

Of course, before you served Thanksgiving or because you had an extra one?

Well, you know, we.

Next slide, please.

There you are with your shirt and your beautiful kitchen again.

And this is just more evidence of

the incredible flair, right?

Okay.

Pies are, let's face it, pies are braggy.

Next.

What the?

Oh.

This is, at first I thought this was a horrific pig's head stuff with fruit, but now I see it as

a pastry cornucopia stuff with fruit.

A chala.

Chala cornucopia.

Hala cornucopia.

Yes.

With sesame seeds.

And you made this as well, Jamie?

No.

Karen made this

on the day when I'm making pies.

So she's got her flair going.

I can add value if I had time.

Are there any more exhibits that I should be looking at?

Is that it?

One more?

Well,

oh no.

Let the record reveal that the evidence is the spreadsheet of a madman.

Imagine if John Doe from the movie Seven made pies.

This is the notebook they would find in his walls.

But

it's not just pies.

It's actually just, it's all of Thanksgiving.

You have carefully timed out

procedures for veg one, veg three, veg two, pie one, two, three, four, five, turkey one, sweet potato two.

What is happening?

You said you had children.

How can you live this way?

how is your kitchen clean and huge and beautiful how can you have the time to do this just throw it in the oven

and duck that's what Thanksgiving is in a real household.

I should be a real judge.

You get to live this way?

Next slide.

This is more like it.

It's a beautiful dog and a cat that is getting out of the picture as soon as possible.

This is a picture of a cat and a dog who are best friends for the time between when the cat is thrown at the dog and the cat escapes the dog.

Who are these lovely animals?

The cat is Ruby, short for rhubarb.

And

the dog is Buttercup, because they're two sticks of butter and a pie.

And I didn't make the spreadsheet.

You made the spreadsheet?

I did not.

No,

I'm looking at both of you.

Trust me, I'm looking hard at both of you.

Did you name these...

Are these your children?

No.

Do you have human children?

We have real children.

That's good.

Your fur babies are adorable.

Anything else for me to look at?

No, good, all right.

So you would have me order, what's that?

And exhibit A.

Well, right, and also your bowl, your bowl, your your your pie bowl.

It's a very deep pie dish.

And this is pear bourbon?

This is bourbon pear, yeah.

I'll allow it.

What would you have me order if I find in your favor, Karen?

That he needs to keep the number of pies reasonable.

As I suggested, estimate two slices per person and you can round up, but don't make extra pies when we have a lot of work to do.

That seems eminently reasonable, Jamie.

What's your counteroffer?

Let me do whatever I like.

I get to make a lot of pie and not feel bad about it.

John,

I think we need to try the pies if we're going to decide this thing.

Yeah.

Jamie, bring the pie over here.

We don't have time to

cut into it.

The very

unyielding crust.

It looks beautiful.

Beautiful lattice work.

Nice flakiness.

I can see that from here.

So, John is now lifting that pie to his mouth.

Now I'm going to taste it.

What kind is it again?

I forget.

Looks pretty good.

I'm going to take mine.

John, would you mind holding my hat?

Do you hold my fork?

Let the record show

brave Bailiff Jesse Thorne observed the rules of comedy,

pied himself in the face,

and now has drowned in bourbon and pear.

Or pear and bourbon.

I'm not sure anymore.

That was wonderful.

And it's a delicious pie.

But do you know what?

Like all pie, filling,

fully flavored, savory, I dare say rich, it is what makes pie always better than cake.

Eat it.

If I ate two slices of that,

I would not be alive.

And as you know, I'm a Dracula.

It's almost impossible to kill me.

I think two slices is plenty for your guests

as a rule of thumb.

So, Karen, you came in with that argument that I felt made me feel like you had been

gaslit to the point of surrender.

But now I'm glad that you made it because I do think that that's a good guideline.

Jamie, pies

are

a gift of generosity, but also they are are reflected glory onto you.

You can't have all of it.

Two slices of glory per person.

That is my ruling.

Thank you for that pie.

Please welcome Ryan and Dan.

Ryan

and Dan, who apparently have brought fans with them.

Pardon me?

There is a whole contingent of people who applauded very specifically for Ryan.

No, I had no idea.

Who comes before me to seek justice?

I do, Your Honor.

And you are?

I'm Ryan.

You are Ryan, and this must be Dan.

Yes.

And my understanding is that you are identical cousins?

That's correct.

Yes.

We went to the same high school.

We had a teacher who thought we were brothers, and my brother was adopted.

So, yes.

Your teacher thought your brother was adopted?

Right.

Right, okay.

That must have been fun.

You play tricks.

Fun for my mom.

Yes.

Yeah.

Where's your brother now?

Crying somewhere in the bed?

No.

Oh, no.

He's a very successful engineer in Philadelphia.

Oh, fantastic.

Does he work at the Smell and Taste Center?

He may have designed their HVAC system.

Okay.

So, which sounds like a complicated project.

And sorry, you are.

Ryan.

Ryan, thank you.

That's right, Ronner.

And so, Ryan, you and I have a connection as well, right?

Pardon me?

You are a camera operator?

Camera operator, yes, that's true.

And for what particular show?

Well, so longtime listeners of the podcast may remember last season there was a reference, a cultural reference to the Great Christmas Light Fight.

Wow.

It's a very popular show.

Guys, I just found a pair on my.

No more ratings have.

Yes, but I was so excited.

I was screaming in my car.

Carter Ooster House, Great Christmas Light Fight, while you read that cultural reference.

Yeah.

And everyone in traffic told me that.

If you don't know, and apparently you don't, because you're uncultured in the Philistines.

Great Christmas Light Fight is a show on television.

It's a seasonal show on network television broadcast channel.

It's one of the top networks.

Thank you, ABC.

Thank you very much.

And their other network, yes.

In which people decorate their houses for Christmas in wildly elaborate and environmentally unsustainable ways.

Yes.

Yes.

And then they fight to win a prize.

Right.

And then they hire people like me and Dan to film it.

Wait, so they decorate their houses, then they fight for a prize?

The fight,

well, they don't personally fight the competition.

The houses fight.

It's a competition.

It's a

friendly competition.

I was like, wow, that is a real stretch on the meaning of Christmas.

So, Ryan.

Mary and Joseph wore no gloves.

Ryan, what is the nature of the justice you seek?

So the nature of this dispute is last year at our family reunion,

Dan is generally in charge of the music.

He sets a playlist.

He had a Bluetooth speaker going, and my sister-in-law asked at some point, like, the music really wasn't hitting the vibe of the room.

So she asked if I could take it over, which I, it wasn't even his speaker, it was his girlfriend's speaker, and I had access to it, so I started playing my own.

So you jacked the Bluetooth speaker to start playing your own stuff at Family Reunion?

Yes, Yon.

Yes, Your Honor.

At the request of my sister-in-law, I started playing music that was more.

Yes or no?

Yes, Your Honor.

That's right.

You jacked it.

But I did have

you jacked the bluetooth speaker how am i gonna find in your favor you jacked it

uh so the reason you would find in my favor first of all this was not made out of malice this this uh change it was uh made out of uh according to my sister-in-law out of love the request okay she finds dan to be uh another brother in the in our family so yeah she

I know words like cousin and brother don't have meaning in your family I understand now

and

the music was falling flat in the room.

It really wasn't fitting the vibe of the party.

So I started to bring the beat up a little bit and make it a little more entertaining and cater to the room, cater to everybody there, not just Dan's personal tastes.

Why does Dan's music suck so bad?

Generally, we have overlapping musical tastes.

Wouldn't you say we've been to a few concerts together?

I think we do have overlapping music tastes, but he's been in charge of the playlist for like four years of the family reunion.

Right.

So there's time for a change.

So how often is the family reunion happened?

Once a year.

It's an annual tradition of the last four years.

So you all get together and then

you change your relative positions to each other.

Like you're my cousin now.

You're his brother.

We also play Boggle, which I realize is frowned upon by the court.

What do you play?

Boggle.

That's the face I expected.

Boggle, if you don't know, is the...

It's almost worse than banana grams.

He also has banana grams, I like to point out.

Yeah, there's a game.

It's called Scrabble.

Learn it, play it.

There's only one tile word game that you

one tile letter game that you need to know.

All right Dan, what's your defense?

Or what is your accusation?

The playlist in question here is a playlist.

You know, I know we all have our playlists on Spotify.

This is a playlist that I specifically designed for family reunions.

This is a group of about 12 or so people, ages ranging over the course of about 50 years.

We have a 20-year-old in the group.

We have people who are past their 60s.

So this is a playlist specifically designed with that group in mind.

So pretty much every song on the playlist is added to that playlist, thinking someone in that group is probably going to enjoy if this song comes off.

Yeah, you seem like a lot of fun.

Yes.

So the playlist is a

playlist.

It's over 800 songs.

How long is the reunion?

Bad boy.

What is this?

Midsummer?

Sometimes it plays.

It's like 24 hours a day for the entire week.

All right, Dan, I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to be mean.

No, no, no.

So it's just, you know, it's clear that you've given it a lot of thought.

It's a playlist designed to put on the song.

You've definitely made a spreadsheet.

If not, in fact, at least in theory.

The idea is that any song that comes on the playlist, someone in the group, you know, people in the room, it's changing.

So it's the idea is that someone in our large group is going to appreciate the salt that comes on.

Only one person may dance at a time.

Exactly.

It's a very strict rule.

You have some exhibits that you wanted to share?

Yes.

May I see the first exhibit?

Oh, there you guys are.

That's the two two of us.

We work together, as we mentioned from the Great Christmas Life fight.

This was us at the Super Bowl last year.

So we do work together a lot.

We are buddies.

The point is, this is not a malicious,

there's no malintent here.

I don't understand.

We're friends.

I just see the two of you standing in front of a blank field.

It's sports ball.

It's the

blurry gray background, and you don't have anything around your necks at all.

Weird.

Next.

Why would you show that to me?

So this is us all, it was just to show that we are, we work together, we're friends, we're not, this is not an angry thing.

It's a dispute simply over the Bluetooth speaker.

No, I understand the intention of the photograph, but why would you show me a sports thing?

This is a good point.

It's a good point.

So this is

us and the cousins singing karaoke at a family reunion a couple years ago.

And my point would be from the songs I picked, they're songs that the entire family would sing along to or really enjoy.

A couple of songs on my playlist that got the whole family singing and going, whereas with Dan's playlist, they were asking me to change it.

Where is this happening?

Oh, Nardy's.

Oh, I buzz marketed a bar

on Long Beach Island, I know.

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

But they have a pink school bus.

Stop, stop.

I didn't hear the name of the place.

All I heard was someone booing it strongly.

What is this?

Long Beach Island.

It's on Long Beach Island, Nardy's.

They have a pink school bus.

They drive you back to your house in the pink school bus when you've had one too many.

Okay.

It's great, right?

So

the point of this picture is the songs I would play in my playlist were songs that were from our karaoke repertoire that would get the whole family excited about the music that was playing.

I see you raising your finger, Dan.

I'd like to point out something to say.

There is a time for karaoke.

Obviously, we all enjoy karaoke.

The playlist is meant to be played throughout the day while we're hanging out at the house.

I don't think good karaoke songs are the kind of music you want to hear all day long.

You sprinkle them in.

Let the record show that wherever this place is,

it is featuring a tiled stage and a very low drop popcorn ceiling

and

a bunch of American flags with the wrong numbers of stripes, it looks like to me.

This is a much more legal venue.

It has all of the

visual appeal and welcome of Buffalo Bill's basement and Silence of the Lambs.

So weird, I don't like this picture anymore.

Are you going to show me one that isn't going to make me nauseated at all?

I sure hope so.

Next, please.

So, this is the text message thread.

This is my sister-in-law explaining that she had asked for it.

My brother replies to their phone and says, Dan has a and I put a poop emoji on it.

Ryan.

Oh, pardon.

My podcast.

Pardon me.

Okay.

Let me sum this up.

Yes, Your Honor.

It's about 5,000 words of text.

And as far as I can tell, it's texting between you and your sister-in-law.

Yes, Your Honor.

Ryan's, no, because you're cousins, right?

I forget.

I don't know what this crazy family is all about.

But this is the sister-in-law who invited you to Jack the Bluetooth signal and take over the party with your musics.

Yes, Your Honor.

All right.

And

she is saying,

you are saying to her, it's for real.

It's, right, you're saying to her that you're going to go on judge Sean Hodgman and defend yourself.

She is saying, is this for real?

Absolutely.

Stealing the Bluetooth was warranted, and I regret nothing.

And this is your sister-in-law saying that Dan's music was repetitive and boring.

Basically, and they're using a poop emoji to hide the word, basically, he has a swe taste in music.

Family-friendly.

You probably have sweet taste in music.

Dustin said the last part.

Who's Dustin?

He's my brother, Dance cousin.

Okay.

Next slide.

I can give you a family tree.

There's a picture of two white people who look sad because they have to drink beer.

Okay, so we've established that your sister-in-law asked you to do this.

Yes, Your Honor.

And that she shares your opinion that dance taste in music is poop emoji.

Well, that was my brother replying, but with her phone.

But in general, the idea was that it wasn't fitting the volume.

Of course, the sister-in-law handed it to the brother.

Okay, fine.

And of course,

the court has ruled that taste is not something you can rule on.

So it was really about the time and the moment.

It wasn't.

Dan, in general, we share many tastes in music.

It was just at that moment it wasn't hitting the room the right time.

His final piece of evidence is, obviously, you're all dressed up for your

family reunion.

Why are you all wearing the same shirt?

Who is that other one?

Dan forgot all of his shirts.

He didn't pack any for the family reunion.

We went to South Carolina.

So we went to a Marshall's and all got matching shirts.

It's pretty simple, I think.

It's part of their mid-summer preparations.

Let the record show you're now wearing the shirts on stage.

Yes, Your Honor.

And what is on the shirts?

They're martini glasses, but it looks like there's a Cosmo in them.

It's a pink drink, but there is also an olive in the glass, and so we don't know.

Look,

it's an artistic Marshall expression.

Your family is obviously a lot of fun.

Confusing?

Yes.

But obviously, your cult-like family is fun.

Right.

If you have a good time together,

we would love for you to join us.

No, I don't want to go to your

I'm not trying to pander to the court, but there was a minimum order on visors at our last family reunion.

I do have some with our family name on them, and they are yours if you'd like them.

I can't give them to a thrift store, they won't accept them.

So, by all means, please.

If I put this,

let the record show that Jesse took a visor and is wiping the pear and bourbon out of his beard.

We are

Baltons.

Baltons, Your Honor.

Baltons.

Yes, it's an Americanized Lithuanian name.

And if I put this on, then I become a member of the community.

You will probably get an email from my aunt inviting you to our family reunion next year at Long Beach Island.

And so if I go through a trauma, you'll hug me and scream through the shopping.

But you will have to play boggle.

Is there anything else I need to see?

Oh, these are our playlists.

Oh, boy.

This is fantastic.

So I submitted this piece of evidence just to give you an idea of the playlist.

Oh, this is the wrong playlist, though.

This is not my playlist.

No, this is my evidence.

This is a.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Dan with the subtle knife.

So

coming back.

Pushing back against the talk train that Ryan has given us.

This evidence should be thrown out, Your Honor.

It has nothing to do with the case.

So Spotify profiles are public.

I was able to find Ryan's Spotify profile.

And as we see, we have a Spotify playlist titled Drive Dan Crazy.

This isn't for you, it's for Dan Donito.

Drive Dan.

Different Dan.

To give an idea, Ryan and I for work sometimes have to drive long distances in the same car.

And so we share, you know, we'll play podcasts and different kinds of music.

So Ryan has, even though the playlist was designed for a different Dan, this playlist was put on in the car.

And it's a playlist designed with malintention, I would say.

And you

it is a play let the record show there's a playlist called Drive Dan Crazy, different Dan, different dam.

Now you're saying that it's a different dam.

Yeah, let the record show that you're in.

Also,

no, no.

Well, I mean, he's

no, no, he's basically a part of the family at this point, but not by blood.

Your honor, this is beyond my comprehension.

There's only one thing we can do, which is trial by smell.

I have three, yes, three Brooklyn smells.

We do find our family roots to Brooklyn, so we find our family roots to Brooklyn, so this would be a good test.

I don't want to hear about your family anymore.

You all seem adorable, but I think you might fall under the sometimes close families have this fatal flaw, which is that they don't realize everyone has one.

A family that is.

Sorry, Michaela.

Wait, you have one too?

Like,

we all have cousins and sisters and aunts.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

Okay, this is a Brooklyn thing.

You can't look in.

You have to.

I mean, just close your eyes.

And

you have to really put your.

I'll have to help you.

Hold that for a second.

I'll tear off the top.

You can both get a smell of this, and you can tell me.

You both smell this thing, and you can tell me

it's a...

I'm going to tell you that it's

a sort of archetypal Brooklyn smell.

And if you can guess what it is,

you win.

You have three chances.

Okay?

You got the smell?

Now remember, it's winter, so it's not a pile of garbage bags.

Don't look at it.

Close your eyes.

I only can see out of one eye, so I can we'll close one eye.

Okay.

Blind in one eye, I don't know.

No, no, I understand.

I understand.

It would be wild if you were faking being blind in one eye in order to catch a look at this thing.

All right.

Do you smell something?

It's a little woodsy.

Cedar, maybe?

Cedar?

Okay, interesting.

I'm going to say a receipt from a bodeca.

I think you might be catching more of the paper bag.

Probably true.

Yeah.

No, you're both wrong.

The answer is, it's a very Brooklyn thing.

CBD cat treats.

No.

They don't really have a lot of odor.

No.

I wanted to get CBD beard oil, which exists and would have been better for this, but it's not.

Okay, here's the next one.

No winner there.

Just helps your beard chill out, you know?

Okay, did you

catch a whiff?

All right.

Any guesses?

I'm going to let you go first.

I went first.

Something like chips, some kind of chips?

Okay, that's pretty close.

Baked kettle chips?

Kettle chips?

Brooklyn famous kettle chips?

Yeah, from one of Brooklyn's chosen kettles.

It's a misdirect.

Baked CBD chip?

No, I wish.

It's a little bit of a misdirect because this does come from a Brooklyn bodega, specifically the one on my block, but it's not a Brooklyn product.

It's Utz brand red hot potato chips.

They don't sponsor the podcast.

Are they finally sponsoring the podcast?

Don't sidetrack the program for the 7,000th time.

So

you're in the winning position.

Chips was pretty good.

You can hang on to this.

Here's the last one.

It's a flask of a liquid.

Okay, hold on to that.

You can keep your eyes open because you can't see.

It's a liquid.

Any guesses?

Would you like to go first?

Is it the whiskey from the last live case in Carolina?

No.

All right.

No.

It actually smelled more like gin to me.

Smelled like gin.

This is starting to show that our family clearly has a problem.

How would you feel if I told you that it was water from the Gowanus Canal?

Good or bad?

How would you feel if I told you that that's what it was?

How would I feel?

No, I'm asking someone else.

You don't have to worry about it.

It's not for me.

I would feel indifferent, but puzzled why smelling is a part of a case about music.

Were you here for the moment?

Not to question the court.

Are you here for the rest of the evening?

Seems like you're questioning the court.

Guess what?

It's not water from the Guanas Canal.

I'm not going to risk my life for this podcast.

It's Moxie Soda that I got in Brooklyn.

Dan was the closest.

And Ryan, you're both, look, you're both wonderful.

You're both adorable.

You both have exactly the same shirts.

You look alike.

You sound alike.

Sometimes you even dress alike.

You could lose your mind because they're cousins, but they're two of a kind.

You guys don't know that show because you're not old.

I don't understand what you're fighting about it's between the cousins kay but you guessed potato chips so dan wins oh boy thank you

holy moly thank you so much dan and ryan thank you for having us

thank you to our litigants for sharing their cases and especially to the staff at the Murmur Theater.

They were so kind.

Thanks to Verity, Jorgens, and Lane for naming the case Fragrant Abuse of the Law.

This episode was recorded by Matthew Barnard, edited by Jennifer Marmor, and produced by Hannah Smith.

As always, you can follow us on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman and on Twitter.

I'm at Hodgman.

My bailiff is at Jesse Thorne.

You can submit your cases, and I hope you will, to maximumfund.org/slash JJHO, or just email me, won't you?

Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We'll see you next time on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

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