Live From Portland Maine at the State Theatre

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live in Portland, Maine, at the beautiful State Theater.

Yeah, not only were we recording in Portland, Maine, one of the great cities of Maine, but we were also joined by a very special musical guest.

What a treat for me, the Night and Day Jazz Trio.

Summertime listeners will know that when I'm recording the Judge John Hodgman podcast from Maine, Joel Mann is the taciturn producer up there at W-E-R-U-F-M in Orlando, Maine.

He also plays bass in the night and day trio, and he was joined by his two trio members, Chris Poulin

and Steve Orlofsky.

Mr.

O, of course, being the leader of the George Stevens Academy High School Jazz Band.

I was so thrilled to see these guys.

And I had a really great time visiting with my friends and neighbors in Portland.

So without further ado, what should we do, Jesse?

Return to a time when public gatherings were legal and appropriate.

Let's go to the stage.

Portland, you've come to us desperate for justice, and we're here at the State Theater to deliver it.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome Lauren and James

Tonight's case, the sole truth and nothing but the truth.

So help me, clog or whatever.

Lauren files suit against her husband, James.

She has indoor slippers with hard soles that she likes to wear around the house.

James is bothered when she puts her feet up on the sofa while wearing the slippers.

He thinks they're too much like shoes.

Lauren says her feet get cold.

and she wants to be cozy in her own home.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

When Jane woke up in the middle of the night, she discovered she had been sleepwalking.

She was in the kitchen, but she couldn't recall getting out of bed and coming downstairs.

The kitchen was silent.

The only sound was from the softly purring refrigerator.

The only light was from the moon.

But because the moon was full and because the kitchen had quite a few windows, there was enough light to see by.

Jane was standing at the counter near the sink.

She had opened one of the drawers and had taken a butcher knife out of it.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear the men.

Lauren and James, please raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has no feet, only a a second set of legs below his larger legs?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman?

Lauren.

How did you.

It's the last night we're getting weird.

What's even the premise of that joke?

I keep.

How did you know about my sublegs?

Take off my shoes and other legs come out like that.

It's because we, you know, because we're on the road, we're traveling, we're sharing with each other, we're seeing each other's feet, which is something that Lauren and James don't like to do.

Lauren and James, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours.

Favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I read as I entered the courtroom?

And

I'm going to give you an advantage here.

Because

this case is about slippers.

And not a lot of great movies, books, and songs are written about slippers.

Really?

Really had a hard time figuring out a slipper-themed quote.

Now I'm suddenly realizing you each have a pair of slippers, which I do not understand.

I thought this was about one pair of slippers.

So did I.

But I feel like I turned around and some elves came and made more.

Like, at the end of this case, I feel like this whole stage is going to be buried in slippers.

The only thing that I could come up with that was in any way interesting to me

was that there is a style of

men's slipper called the Prince Albert slipper, named for the Prince Prince Consort of Queen Victoria, a black crushed velvet slipper that is to be worn

as formal attire

by gentlemen of the Victorian era giving dinner parties.

And I realize that was very interesting to me, but not to anyone else involved.

And also, Prince Albert.

I'm not here to contradict you, but somebody on this stage, I won't say, who just received in the mail a copy of

the art book, The Gentleman's Slipper.

Oh, so which is exclusively photographs of such shoes.

Well, they had to order it from England, but I'm not saying who it was.

Well, in any case, Prince Albert himself said nothing memorable in his lifetime for me to quote, and the only quotes about Prince Albert were by Sarah Ferguson.

She wrote a book about him, so I didn't want to do that.

So instead,

grasping at straws, I noticed in the green room here at the lovely State Theater in Portland a wildly diverse array of reading material, books left behind by traveling acts and bands

that reflected no single

bibliographic vision, just a bunch of old junk books.

So I grabbed at random a paragraph from one of these books, and to give you, since you can't possibly guess, I will make it multiple choice for you.

These are four books that are upstairs right now.

I have photographic evidence if you need to see it, doubters.

That passage was from one of these four books, and you may each make a choice, but you can't pick the same one.

Was that passage from

Careless in Red by Elizabeth George,

The Mask by Dean Kuntz,

The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen,

or Letters to Penthouse, Volume 50,

which impossibly exists and was printed in print in the year 2015, I check.

People don't always have Wi-Fi.

So, let's see.

Lauren, why don't you guess first?

Letters to Penthouse.

Letters to Penthouse is Lauren's guess.

I'll make a note of it.

This is the Judge John Hodgman podcast after dark, after all.

That's right.

James, what is your guess, if you have one?

Do you remember the...

I'm just going to go with B.

Who knows?

The second one.

The second one.

Well, since you can't name it, I can't give it to you.

Because it was B.

The Mask by Dean Coons.

Well, it's been good.

Thank you.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

You didn't even bother to remember the names that I offered you.

Lauren did, though.

All right.

So who seeks justice before this court?

I do.

Lauren, what is the nature of you dispute?

So I have these very comfy slippers.

And you're holding them here.

I am.

Yes.

And James thinks it's disgusting when I put my feet up on the couch while I'm wearing them.

I put my feet up on the couch.

Yeah, if I'm lounging.

Sure, if you're lounging on the couch.

Lauren, can you describe the slippers in question?

Thank you.

Yes, they have shearling inside.

They're a hard rubber on the bottom.

They're an LLB slipper.

Sure.

You know, I'm sure half the people here have them, but you know.

You are required by law to buy them, I believe, as the president of the state of Manhattan.

That's true.

When I am a group, I have to.

They come with your Subaru.

Yeah, yeah.

Which we also have.

Does anyone here have the

LL Bean Edition Super Room?

It's a thing that exists.

Right?

I'm not making that up.

Does anyone have it?

Interesting.

Too good for the LL Bean Edition Super Room.

Yeah.

Okay, so you wear these in the house.

You live here in Maine.

Yeah.

Where do you live if I live?

We live in Westbrook.

In Westbrook.

Just over the line.

Just over the line.

That means something, I suppose.

Portland, yeah.

Yeah.

And James, you don't like these slippers?

No, well, I think to clarify, it's not just putting her feet up on the sofa, wearing these.

Right.

She'll bring the trash out in these.

In winter, in snow, in dirt.

They've also been worn in bed when she's cold.

Whoa, I submitted photo-proof.

When you say worn in bed, do you mean worn on bed or worn

under the covers?

Yes.

Wow.

So that cold night, you roll over, you touch off her foot.

No, no, it's a rubber sole.

Oh.

Yeah.

Wow.

I mean, you know, there's...

Can I clarify a little bit?

There's nothing more romantic in Maine than in the dead of winter reaching over betwixt the flannel LLB sheets to touch your loved one's foot.

It writes itself.

Now, I notice you have an accent.

Based on your accent, may I presume that you are from Swann's Swann's Island, Maine?

Close.

Very close.

No, Dublin, Ireland.

Dublin, Ireland.

Well, how long have you lived

in Maine?

And what brought you to this country?

My lovely wife.

Your lovely wife.

So, Lauren, how do you respond to these accusations?

Because that's gross stuff.

Thank you.

I agree.

So these are new slippers, and I have never worn them outside.

He is submitting old evidence.

Oh, these are all.

I have changed my ways.

These are the oldies.

Those are the oldies.

This is last-minute evidence.

So from the past eight years.

James, you are holding a pair of slippers.

These are the older slippers.

Lauren tried to deceive this court with a pair of fresh, clean slippers.

Correct.

As though I wasn't,

because to me, those fresh, clean slippers look like perfectly good house shoes, though not

bed shoes.

But James, you know better, and you brought the original pair.

How would you, Lauren described her pair of slippers?

How would you, using the most colorful Dublin slang possible, no Blarney,

describe these?

And

you say it in your own words, whatever comes to mind.

Keeping it clean, they're pretty mangy.

Pretty mangy.

I'll keep it clean.

It's the exact same brand, but obviously much older.

They look like

the shearling was taken from a very elderly sheep.

And may I see the soles?

I see.

Careful.

Well, they actually, that's fine.

They actually look pretty clean, these soles.

I mean, they're a little darkened, obviously.

I wouldn't want to touch them in bed.

Lauren,

why are you wearing?

I'm not going to shame anyone.

How dare you wear your slippers in bed?

It's cold.

It's not even a question.

It's cold like 10 months of the year here.

No,

I understand.

Are you from this area originally?

I am.

You are.

So you know.

Have you always, did you grow up?

Is it a cultural main Westbrook kind of just over-the-line thing to

wear the same footwear that you take the garbage out in into bed?

Well, we have a new house, and I have not worn those since we moved.

Don't dodge the question, Lauren.

How long have you been wearing your slippers into bed?

Oh, I still wear these ones into bed because I'm cold.

They're clean, they're house shoes.

Have you heard of socks?

Thank you.

They make my feet sweat.

These don't.

What are you talking about?

How

in Westwork is it possible

that socks make your feet sweat, but those shearling slippers do not?

Well, I can kick them off, too, if I get hot.

I can't kick socks off themselves.

Have you considered getting a separate pair of slippers to wear in bed?

No.

No.

James is shaking his head.

Don't give ideas.

So you would not want her to wear.

I mean, it's not merely a cleanliness issue.

It is you want her bare feet in bed with.

No, I don't mind socks.

Socks is a compromise I'll work with.

Yeah, but she can't kick off the socks.

And take it from me.

If there's someone who sleeps in your bed with socks on and they kick off their socks while they sleep, then within three days, there are 45 pairs of socks.

So the photo I submitted for evidence was myself making the bed, finding multiple slippers in the bedroom.

Multiple slippers!

Because it's all piled up under the covers.

Wait, how many pairs do you have, Laura?

It's the pair.

It's the pair.

So by multiple, do you mean two, James?

Four.

Four now.

Those were in the closet.

He dug those out tonight.

Yeah, but you still own them.

I forgot that I own them.

Boy, it must be nice living in the corner.

They're in rental floor drop.

You know,

in Maine, you have different storage options than in New York City.

You never forget that you have a pair of slippers.

You can't just throw them into your storage pod or whatever and come and find them later.

So, James,

how does it make you feel when your foot seeks to find your beloved's foot and you feel

the coarse, rough, hard LL bean rubber with maybe just a soup of garbage on them

it's pretty weird it's it's uncomfortable and and and has have you ever asked Lauren to modify her behavior on numerous occasions over the years yeah and why

what does she say when you ask her I've made no inroads that's why we're here right

but she doesn't say she doesn't Lauren, you don't say,

I know it's wrong, but I'm doing it anyway.

Right.

It's just not wrong.

Oh.

Yeah.

So you just say, no, I'm not going to change.

Well, it's mostly his approach, because he just scoffs, or it's like, that's disgusting.

Oh, that's not asking.

I've asked you.

I've asked two, but it becomes when you've asked often enough, you don't get that far.

Then it just becomes scoffing.

Yes.

Have you ever,

as my character in Parks and Recreation, as scripted by Megan Anram,

said to her simply, scoff.

I'm not there yet.

Okay, get in there.

Obviously, this disgusts your husband.

I presume you care about him.

Yes.

Why not seek a common ground?

Because they're clean shoes.

Or not shoes.

They're shoes.

Let the record show.

No!

Let the record show.

She admitted there were shoes.

House shoes, perhaps, but shoes to be sure.

Can I say that I think the mental barrier for James is that we've seen many a teen and college student wear these as shoes in public in Maine.

Sure.

Are you in a college?

Is Westbrook a college town?

No, but if we're going to the movies or something, there's always somewhere in there.

Look, I have no doubt

that when you drive 13 hours to go to the movies,

that you are seeing young college students in Maine wearing all manner of non-shoe shoes.

I have no doubt that you are seeing many grown and happy adults wearing slippers into the movies in Maine.

That's what Maine is all about.

There's some cultural things here, I think.

Well, how would you explain the the cultural difference to James?

Well, like, you know, once it's winter and it's Maine, we basically just give up.

Right.

Yeah.

Alternately, here in Maine, we nasty.

Yeah.

Well, I think it started when he moved over.

We went to a friend's wedding like two weeks later at a nice wedding, and someone was wearing cargo shorts.

I was better than that.

He didn't know what he was getting himself into.

Have you, I mean,

coming from Ireland,

there is obviously, I think, a somewhat different standard of casual versus formal dress in the United States in general.

Yes.

And in Maine specifically.

It's a new level.

This is a pretty cash place.

Definitely.

And how would you describe what you're seeing?

By the first adjustment was...

people not taking a hat off at a restaurant.

That took me a couple years to adjust.

Yeah, that's hard.

That was a weird one.

Even with you, nobody should ever, ever, ever.

There's no circumstance where you should wear a hat indoors.

No, of course not.

Essentially, you're signaling to the establishment that you don't trust them to keep the rain out.

Yes.

But

cargo shorts at a main wedding is pretty

down the middle.

Yeah, no one was shocked by that.

I had a nice three-piece suit.

I polished my shoes, cleaned up, and

James.

I'm sure we were.

Did they all ask you for hors d'oeuvres and stuff?

They probably thought I was officiating.

James, I'm sure when you moved from Dublin to the United States, you were confident that you could find a place with worse weather than Dublin.

That was my goal.

The one place on earth.

How does weather factor into your feelings about this?

Because

while Ireland is in a constant state of bone-chilling damp,

it doesn't get nearly as cold there as it does here.

No, that's true.

And I do understand that with slippers in the house, cold feet, that's fine.

We still turn up the heat.

You can still put on socks.

Come on.

I found Ireland.

It's not that hot in the house.

Ireland's rain and cold somehow gets into your bones.

That's a colder weather than the snow.

And it transforms your personality.

Yes.

Yes.

Same here.

But we have these shoes that you wear outdoors if you have to deal with the snow and whatever.

You take them off.

Yeah.

And you could put on these kind of shoes.

You still take them off before you go to bed.

These kinds of slippers, right?

In Ireland, when it's very, very cold,

what does one wear to bed on their feet, if anything?

Nothing.

I've never worn anything in bed on my feet.

Because he's a furnace.

Right?

It's just called Irish nude feet.

Yes.

What did you say?

He's like a human furnace.

Oh, he runs hot?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, interesting.

And I'm freezing all the time.

Yeah, well, that's, you know,

there's that as well.

So if I were to rule in your favor, James, how would you have me rule?

I actually wanted pretty middle ground.

I'm willing to purchase wool socks or something warm for her feet.

Socks will not work, James.

No.

Then she'll have to do bare feet.

I'll sleep happy then.

Bare feet or

nothing.

Right.

Bare feet or nothing is kind of redundant to say.

Okay.

James, everyone knows wool socks make your feet sweat.

Wearing an entire sheep on your feet doesn't.

That's right.

Shearling breathes.

To be fair, a sheep that's been turned inside out.

I can arrange that.

Yeah, and also, wool socks won't do it.

What you need is to wear shearling slippers with your feet wrapped up in saran wrap as well.

Yes.

Lauren, if I were to rule in your favor, how would you have me rule?

I would like to continue wearing my slippers on the couch.

I will compromise and not wear them in bed.

And are you going to wear these new slippers out to take out the garbage and such?

No, I never have.

Not so far.

Not so far.

But history shows you're able to do it.

Yes.

I won't.

I won't take it.

Let the record show that Lauren is giving me a suspicious look, that I don't fully trust.

Fully trust she's not going to go out there sometime.

I promise.

Just take that garbage out real quick.

And James is looking.

Just tip, tip, tip, tip, toe on

little cat slipper feet.

Take out the recycling.

Well, I'm going to have to believe you because you're under fake oath.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Lauren,

how do you feel about your chances in this case?

I felt really good going into it.

Now I'm not so sure.

On what basis did you feel good going into it?

I guess just like my point is you know what you did.

I just felt righteous, you know.

Is this like something you've checked in with other people about?

Like you wear shoes inside the bed, right?

And they're like, yeah, girlfriend, I do.

Yes.

James,

how are you feeling about your chances in the case slash chances of continuing to live in America?

So part A, confident.

Part B, not so much.

No.

Okay, well.

It's been a good one.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about it.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

you may be seated.

James, I am also a stranger to Maine.

You know, I grew up in Massachusetts.

Thank you very much.

I have lived and continue to live very happily most of the time

in Brooklyn, New York.

And sure,

that is a borough that needs no cheering.

We're fine.

Not an an underdog.

But Maine is the place

that has been selected for me by my wife as the place I will die.

So

and the hole's been dug.

Pretty much.

And we...

You know, we spend a big chunk of the summer up here because my wife teaches high school and I do this.

And

more and more often we have been coming during the colder months, during the darker months, where it is more appropriate for my rehearsal of death.

And I enjoy it tremendously.

But it is hard.

I mean,

you know, while the climate change is causing the winters to veer back and forth between extremely cold and extremely weirdly mild and unnervingly warm, You know, it wasn't a couple of years ago that we were up here for a week when the temperature did not get above 15 degrees.

And that is,

that gets into your bones and gets really into your mind.

When you, you know, when you're just like, the furnace is on all the way and you're wearing all your clothes.

Like,

yeah, I was definitely going to bed with several pairs of shoes on at that time.

As you've noticed about Maine, not only do you have this

mind-warping sort of traumatic climate that even in the best of times wants you to die.

But also you have, and I think appropriately, a culture of people leaving each other alone about their choices.

And I think that that is one of the things that makes Maine really very special because it reminds you particularly, I mean, Portland's a big city.

Yeah.

But most of Maine, of course, is small communities that suffer through long, dark periods of time where everyone is just doing the best they can.

And they have to just let each other be to some degree.

And

so it is not surprising to me that, Lauren, you're a native of Maine?

Yes.

Yeah, it's not surprising to me that, well, wait a minute.

Your parents are from Maine?

Yes.

Your grandparents are from Maine?

Yes.

Oh, so you are a native of Maine.

I'm Technician.

It's not surprising to me that Lauren has benefited from a generational genetic disfigurement

that causes her not to think twice about wearing her garbage shoes into the bed.

Because

most of what we do in Maine is done under the cover of cold winter darkness.

Who the hell is watching?

Now you are here to peer in with your civilized Irish eyes.

That are not smiling.

What's that?

That are not smiling.

That are not smiling.

That's right.

When Irish eyes are glaring

with disgusting contempt.

Now most people who enter into a marriage and someone sees them, you know, because that's what is interesting about marriage, right, is you're joining the most intimate parts of your lives.

You're letting your spouse see parts of you physically and emotionally and psychologically that you would never let the rest of the world see.

And a lot of the time, what happens when couples join and they see themselves through the lens of their partner's Irish eyes, for example, they're like, oh, right, I can't be wearing shoes to bed.

That's terrible, right?

But Lauren is just too main to do that.

It's like, I don't understand.

You see what I'm doing, right?

This is on purpose.

So,

this is all to say, Lauren, I sympathize with you.

I admire your spirit.

Honestly,

as an aspirational non-native Maine resident, I really should just leave you alone and let you pull down the window shade and just let you do whatever you're going to do in your house.

But you do share your house with James.

And it is undeniable that

wearing your house shoes, which are necessary in Maine, right?

Because out there there's all kinds of raccoon poop and things to walk through.

It's messy out there, particularly mud season and everything else.

You do need a pair of house shoes if you're not just going to wear socks or bare feet in the house, right?

So it's good that you have those house shoes, but those house shoes have to be house shoes.

And that means you cannot go outside in them.

I know, I do it too.

I do it all the time.

I wear my slippers outside.

I know you all do too.

But

for the

purposes of people listening to this podcast elsewhere, we have to pretend to be civilized.

You understand?

I definitely wear my slippers and bring out the garbage when you're.

For sure, I do.

For sure, I do.

I do it, but I don't wear them in bed.

I have no doubt.

I have no doubt that if you were to go to your favorite Maine-based mandatory retailer,

Vermont Country Store.

Vermont Country Store sells old shampoos from the 70s.

In my own house in Maine, I have a couple of bottles of gee your hair smells terrific that I got.

I bet if you were to go to that retailer, not the Vermont country store, they'd probably have not one, not two, but maybe five different varieties of shoes that may be even specifically to be worn in bed.

Different slippers for your bed.

Sorry, James.

Her feet are cold.

You're a human furnace.

You're a throbbing, flaming heart of passion,

just like all Irishmen.

You're a burning chunk of bog moss.

Just get some bed shoes.

That's what we all deserve in life.

Some decent bed shoes.

You already have, like, you're already keeping in your house not one, but two pairs of these shearling slippers.

Throw those garbage ones away and replace them with bed shoes.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules, that is all.

Lauren and James, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show, Let's Learn Everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

John, that was a lot of fun.

I think we should have some more music.

Yeah, can't we hear some more music, please, from Joel Mann, Chris Coolin and Steve Orlofsky, the night and day trio.

We'll talk to them a little bit after they play another song for you.

But it looks like you guys are ready to go.

All right, let's hear some jazz, Kastine style.

If you

have a plan, come on west

Check the highway, travel my way, cause it's the best.

Get your kicks on Route 66

Cause it was

from Chicago to Denver Lake

It's more than 2,000 miles it's all the way

Get your kicks on Route 66

Cause it won't steal some way

to Missouri

Oh my city looks so darn pretty to see

Gala, New Mexico

Backstop, Arizona, don't forget Reno King, Bosto, San Bernardino.

Won't you

get into the town we do

If you make

the California agent

get your kicks on Route 166

Why's Juicy of Louis,

John Missouri.

Oklahoma City looks so darn pretty and sick.

Gallup, New Mexico.

Last time Arizona, don't forget Puerto Rico.

King in Boston San

Francisco.

Get him to the top of the tip.

If you make

the casting trip,

Get your kicks on Route 166

Get your kicks on Route 166

Get your kicks on Route 166

Let's hear it for the night and day jazz trio

That's Steve Orlovsky on wins, Chris Pullen on guitar, and our own guest producer, Joel Mann, on Laying Down the Bass.

So

I was so excited when I saw Mr.

O when I came in because I'm a huge fan of the GSA jazz band.

They play every summer, or every Labor Day, I should say, at the Blue Hill Fair.

It's such a delight.

They're such a great band.

And I saw them two summers ago.

And I really enjoyed it.

And the energy that you bring leading the band is so great.

And then this summer I promised everyone who follows me on Instagram that I would live Instagram the whole show.

And so during the Blue Hill Fair in the afternoon at the grandstand, I stood on the racetrack down from the stands to get close to them.

And I was filming them the entire time.

And after a period of time, I was beginning to feel like a weird creep.

Because I didn't ask anyone if I could do this.

The band is all teenagers.

You know, it's like weird that this mustache man

is like filming the whole thing, putting it on Instagram live right now.

And at one point,

I sense out of the corner of my eye a main state trooper walking towards me.

And

I'm like, I don't want to get in trouble.

Just keep walking, dude.

Just keep walking.

I'm just trying to film this.

And he walks, and then he doesn't keep walking.

He stops.

And he stops and he stands right here.

I'm like, oh, God, here I go.

Gotta go to jail.

And I turn to him.

I go, yes?

And he goes, oh, can I get by?

He didn't want to walk in front of my camera.

But Main State Trooper goes.

It was a greatest.

And Joel, of course, W-E-R-U, spins the platters and moves the knobs and dials around and teaches me about psychedelic rock.

Joe Bird and the Field Hippies is your band, right?

I mean, that's your fave.

That's right.

That's right.

My favorite.

Any other wackadoo band names you need me to know about, Joel?

No.

All right.

Joel, you may notice, is somewhat taciturn.

He's famous for it on the podcast.

We're going to move into a new segment here called Swift Justice, where we hear three cases in quick succession.

Joel, would you mind standing around to lob a syllable from time to time into the conversation?

Okay.

All right.

Another round of applause for the nine day trio.

Jesse Thorne, will you please bring the first litigants out?

Please welcome to the stage Jacinda and Lewis.

Jacinda and Lewis.

Well

Jacinda and Lewis, everybody.

That was their walk-on music.

Fantastic.

Thank you.

So who?

This isn't your show, guys.

Easy there, Joel.

So, who here seeks justice before this court?

And you are Jacinda?

Yes.

And what is the nature of your dispute?

Okay, the nature of the dispute is Lewis and I have our own shows on

TV.

Right.

Our shows, and then movies we watch together.

Right.

And the dispute is Lewis just takes a really long time.

This is all we have in life anymore, right?

I know.

Our shows.

In Maine.

Our shows in Maine in the dark.

I was your only Brooklyn woo because I'm from Brooklyn.

Oh, you are?

Where are you from in Brooklyn?

Bay Ridge.

Bay Ridge.

Yeah.

How did you come to be here?

I actually, funny, Lauren, I moved to Maine to farm sheep.

Really?

Yes, right in Brunswick.

In Brunswick, you farm sheep in Brunswick?

And I'm wearing a pair of wool socks I knitted.

My feet don't sweat.

Take off your shoes.

Are you going to touch your feet?

I just want to see these feet.

No, I'm not going to touch your feet.

I just want to see your socks.

Now I'm going to touch your feet.

Want me to touch your feet too, sir?

No, thank you.

All right.

What's your verdict, John?

Wet or dry?

Jacinda is on stage.

She's not a performer by nature.

She's under a certain amount of stress.

So I'm just a little damp on the bottom.

I mean, I wouldn't say sweaty, just naturally.

Anyone's feet would feel the same way.

I'm sure if Lewis let me feel his feet, they'd also be damp.

Well, that's awesome.

So you raise sheep for two years.

Oh, and then you no longer do it.

I full-time farmed for seven years.

You full-time farmed in Brunswick for seven years?

In New Jersey, England, Maine.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

And so, but now you don't do it anymore.

No, I run my own garden design business.

That's great.

That's cool.

It has an edible emphasis to it.

An edible emphasis to it.

So you can't eat those socks, though.

Anyway, so you have your own, and what do you do here in Maine?

I'm a real estate broker in Maine.

A real estate broker in Maine.

That must be

difficult.

It's busy and then it's dark and quiet.

Right, exactly.

So during the unbusy season, you have your shows to keep you warm.

And

what are the shows that you have?

You have individual shows and then shows together.

So name one individual show each, and what's the together show?

Well, I just started Downton Abbey.

That's a great one.

Classic.

Gonna give you a little warning, though.

Yes.

You're gonna see a lot of dog butt in that down now.

Dog butt?

Every episode opens with a close-up of the butt of a dog walking on it.

It gets a little tiresome after a while.

I have to keep my eyes open.

I haven't noticed yet.

I think our together show is Game of Thrones, like many.

Yes.

What's your individual show?

Always sunny in Philadelphia.

Always sunny.

Classic.

Classic FX show.

All right.

And your together, sorry, go ahead.

Oh, sorry.

So our together show, yes, Game of Thrones.

But the real nature of the dispute is I can be a binge watcher, as I feel like most people are in our streaming era.

Yeah, you're young.

Yeah.

Yeah, I got you.

And Lewis will watch 20 minutes of a show.

and then shut it off.

Right.

And then days later, maybe we'll finish it or not or ever.

And it's the same thing with movies.

So we'll get like halfway through a riveting movie, and then it's like, okay, it's time to go to bed.

I'm like,

yeah.

So almost seven years of this.

Well, you know, but Lewis has to get up early to sling those houses.

Yes.

I think it's very appropriate to stop a movie partway through and circle back around to it.

That's the point of streaming.

Yeah.

That's the point of streaming.

I've got an idea that'll entertain the, that'll revolutionize the entertainment industry, John.

We'll stream movies directly into people's homes so they can stop them and then start them later.

Unlike on every other home entertainment technology since broadcast television.

VHS tapes, laser discs, DVDs, Blu-rays, et cetera.

All of which could not be stopped and started later.

Technological crankiness aside,

movies were not made to be watched for a little bit, then stopped, then started over.

I mean, so I won't agree with you that it's appropriate, but I will agree with you, as an older person who falls asleep very easily, it is sometimes totally inevitable.

I mean, my version of binge watching is watching the same episode of Watchmen over and over again.

Because even though there have only been four episodes, I don't remember which ones I watched.

And therein lies part of the the problem.

I won't fall asleep in front of a TV, but she will.

And then she wakes up and asks what has happened for the last 20 minutes.

So

perfect time to stop.

Yeah, 20 minutes ago.

So, right, so this sounds like a

perfect marriage.

You fall asleep in the middle of a Game of Thrones or whatever, and that's a good time, as Lewis says, to stop it and pick it up again like the next day, right?

Turn the lights off slowly and slowly turn the volume down, and then just disappear for the night.

You're almost literally describing the plot of the movie Gaslight.

Like

when you're watching a Game of Thrones

and you're

and you how does it happen that Jacinda will fall asleep?

Do you notice that she's falling asleep and say, hey, should we shut it off and pick this up later?

I just notice she's asleep and then slowly shut it off.

I don't even ask.

And then you just leave her sleeping there on the couch and go to bed by herself?

She'll usually spring awake surprised and ask what happened.

Oh, I see.

Oh, the reason that you're doing the slow turn off keeps her asleep.

Right, is because if you just turn it off, then Jacinda, you'll jump up and go, no, we're going to keep watching.

Yes.

Yes, like the addict I am.

I see.

Well, okay, so the real, real nature of the dispute is.

Oh, right.

Sorry.

The real, real nature.

Is that now I started watching Rhythm and Flow.

Anyone?

Hey, ho.

Anyone?

Okay.

You know,

let the record reflect that Jacinda attempted to instigate a hip-hop call and response

during a Maine humorist show in Portland.

Where my ball is at, Portland, Maine.

I'm just like,

there's so many shows.

I don't know that one.

Okay.

It's the rap version of American Idol, and it's amazing.

It's a competition show.

It's a competition show.

So he came in and was like, oh, can this be our show?

And all of a sudden, I was like, oh, no.

This means we're going to finish it in six months.

And so then I said, okay, it can be our show, but really, I watched it and then would re-watch it with him when he came home.

Thank you.

I mean, he knew knew I was doing it.

He knew I was doing it.

You weren't hiding the fact that you knew all of the outcomes.

And I will say, I've been so loyal.

I always, even with our shows, I don't do the whole watch it, rewind it.

I will wait until we're ready to sit down together and watch it.

Right.

But then I started watching the dark crystal.

Puppets, anyone?

Yeah.

That's a Judge John Hodgman.

Hey!

Where's my sexies at?

And then he was.

And then he was like, can this be our show?

And I said, oh, this is starting to become a pattern.

So.

You're trying to take Jacinda's shows?

Take my shows.

I get very excited at the beginning, and I want to watch them all.

And then maybe 30 minutes in, I get uncomfortable because the Skexies are abusing the other muffins.

Sure.

And I have to turn it off.

I had to turn it off because I didn't believe the Gelflings would ever be the Skexis and Forcers.

That's crazy.

You watch the Dark Crystal?

Yeah, alright, good.

Hey, Joel Mann, you watch The Dark Crystal?

No.

Okay.

Joel, what are you watching these days?

Shit's creek.

Yeah.

Look, I don't know what to say.

You're in your 30s or something, right?

Yeah, this is how it's going to be for the rest of your life.

Like,

in your 20s, when you cared about impressing each other, you'd stay awake for the other person's thing.

You'd be like, yeah, I'm invested.

Let's do this together, baby, forever.

But now,

you know, it's the same deal.

It's cold.

It's dark in Maine.

You get tired.

Everyone's wearing fleece.

It's soporific.

And you want to turn off the thing, and you want to keep the thing going.

You want to have shows together.

But you got to,

you just know you're just going to, it's all going to be compromised for the rest of your lives.

I do want to add this.

What do you want me to rule?

I don't understand.

My rule is...

Because all of these, all of these, this is like a palimpsest of a million Judge John Hodgman disputes that we've had.

And

I don't see what the solution is.

The rule for me is, it was actually two things.

It was when we start a movie, we finish it like

that night.

Yeah.

Or at least maybe like a cap, like five days or something.

Like we can't go beyond that.

A five-day cap on finishing a movie?

Yeah.

What movie are you working on now?

i think seven had to take a take a pause yeah we started watching seven because it was around halloween

graphic it's one of those movies you really want to live with for a while

i like to reflect on it for a little while

and then also that if i start watching a show

if he wants to come in on it he can't

If he wants to come in on the show.

Like a show

I've claimed, like the dark crystal.

So as soon as he claimed it, I was pumping through.

I was three episodes in.

I'm like, oh yeah, I'm loving this.

We haven't watched it in a month.

Because you're waiting on him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know what?

It's fine.

It's mine.

And what do you want, Lewis?

You want to be able to claim any show you want and then set your own time scale?

I should have claimed to three shows, and the rest can be hers.

And I get to break them up how my sleep patterns see fit.

Three shows over what period of time?

Seven years?

Because it's going to take you that long to finish anything.

We started watching Stranger Things in July, and we were on the last episode.

I was savoring it.

Season which?

Season one?

Season three.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, it's fine.

It's like a recent.

You don't eat it all at once.

You're savoring it.

You nibble it.

Yeah, but maybe that's your show.

Maybe that's not the show you watch together.

We should have some.

And then I should step in on her shows and claim it.

And then

you can nibble one.

Here's the deal.

Lewis grew up in Maine.

Yes.

Where in Maine?

Up the coast in Camden, pretty close to that witch shop.

I was there this weekend.

Yeah, fantastic.

Yeah.

Does Camden have its own witch shop?

Oh, God, no.

No.

It has a psychic shop, though, all of a sudden right on Main Street.

That's pretty good.

Somewhere for the witches.

Exactly.

He was only allowed 30 minutes a week of an educational show.

There's a deep history there when I watched it.

Yeah.

So I feel like.

I would think since you were only allowed 30, what did you watch in your 30 minutes of education?

Reading Rainbow.

Reading Shortbury.

Or why not?

That's the greatest.

That's a great show.

Yeah.

Past Judge John Hodgman guest LeVar Burton.

That's right.

You ever watch The Voyage of the Mimi with child Ben Affleck?

Yes.

That show's dope, right?

Rarely do people remember that movie.

They got the water by making a tent out of a tarpaulin and collecting the condensation, John.

That's how I get my water to this day.

Get a fling!

That's the Chamberlain.

Who can name all the skexies?

Don't do it.

So I would think that someone who had been forced to limit your television watching 30 minutes per day, now in this era of overabundance of programming, you'd want to be mainlining as much as possible.

John, this is the the first of three cases in 10 minutes.

Is this the first one?

Yeah.

Oh, okay, never mind.

If you fall asleep, it's over, you go to bed.

That's ruling one.

Ruling two is, if you can't watch a movie in one sitting, you don't deserve to watch movies.

All right.

Number three is, you're welcome to watch whatever show each other claims, but if you claim the show, you watch it at your own pace, and the other person just has to deal with it.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Jacinda and Lewis, please welcome Lorian and Steve.

Lorian

and Steve.

Lorian, you have like a middle-earthy sounding name.

It is.

It's from Lord of the Rings.

It is, yeah.

That's awesome.

Your parents gave you that name or did you choose it for yourself?

My dad said it was the only book he ever read, so he wanted to choose a name from it.

So I'm just glad I'm not Galadriel.

Galadriel's pretty hot.

There's some really, like, you could be Balron.

That would be no good.

Steve, what fantasy novel is your name from?

Not sure.

Silver Hawk, The Trials of Steve, book one.

What is the nature of your dispute and who's not going to be a son of a story?

You have crossed me for the last time, Steve.

Who comes to my court to seek justice?

I do.

And Lorian, what is the justice you seek?

So we have one of those standard issue cars that most people in Maine have.

Sure.

And an LLB in Edition Subaru.

Close.

What kind of Subaru do you have?

A Forrester.

Forrester?

People are applauding.

Is there like beef between Forrester people and Outback people?

Yes.

Really?

Someone was like, yes.

Who here is Team Outback?

Who here is Team Forester?

Anybody out there still rocking a legacy?

You know, I always wanted one of the Subaru brats.

Oh, I'd love a Subaru Brat.

That would be so cool, those little tiny trucks.

The little teeny, tiny trucks.

Joel Mann, do you know what a Subaru brat is?

Yes.

Right, thank thank you.

Do you ever have one?

No.

Do you drive a Subaru?

What do you drive?

Kia.

Folks, we have a new ringtone.

All right.

Well, you're still here.

Sorry.

Lauren, so Laurie, you have a Forester, which is obviously the best.

Right.

And so one of the features of our particular Forester is that it has heated seats.

Sure.

Which in Maine of course is a useful tool, but we played it.

If you want to feel like you pooped yourself.

So we play a game.

I'm just concerned because I'm driving and obviously conditions are bad.

I want to be able to concentrate, so I need to feel as though I'm driving around in a pool of my own poop.

Let me turn on the seat warmer.

Well, it's kind of part of the game is that we try to trick the other person and turn their seat warmer on when they're not looking.

Oh, sneaky!

Yeah.

So you try to get the other person's seat warmer on without their looking.

Correct.

Right.

That's awesome.

Thank you.

My son used to do that to me all the time.

So the dispute is over the rules of the...

I drive a Volkswagen.

Whatever.

It's fine.

The rules are...

Well, that's what we need your help with

because

my husband was driving the car one time without me in it, and he knew I'd be the next one to drive it.

And so he left the seat warmer on when he left the car,

knowing that when I got in and turned the car on, it would get me.

It would explode.

No, sorry.

Like about 10 minutes after driving it, it would get me, right?

And so I think that was cheating because

part of the game.

You said that's a sneaky cheat?

Because the idea wasn't in the car when he put it on.

So what do you, Steve?

So you think this whole game is like basically close-up magic-based.

Right.

It has to, you can't leave, your point of view is, the rule should be you can't just leave it on.

You've got to sneak that heat while the other person is in the car.

That both players have to be in the car.

There's got to be a measure of sleight of hand and dare I say distraction.

This sounds safe.

Sure.

What's Steve?

What's the best, aside from this disputed one, what's the best sneak heat gotcha you ever got?

What's your technique?

Are you driving?

Yeah, like on the the way down here,

it was...

Yeah, this is a perfect night

to be playing distracting games in the car.

It's got 3 o'clock in the afternoon, freezing rain.

I was changing the radio while driving.

Right.

Just moved over and slowly.

But how did you know that you, how did you pick that moment?

Did you notice that Lorienne was looking out the window at the utter darkness or something?

I just figured she wasn't paying attention.

Did it work?

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, that's a good guess.

Who's better at it?

I'd say we're about equal.

I don't know.

We've been playing it for years.

Are you keeping score?

Not really.

Then, what's the

for the moment?

The gotcha moment.

Are you married?

Yes.

And you're not keeping score?

How will you know who's winning the marriage?

She is.

Steve, you're cool.

So basically, you would like me to invalidate this

absentee gotcha.

Yeah, and make it a rule for the game that both players have to be in the car.

Yeah, I think I'm going to rule that.

And here's why.

Because anyone can pull that kind of amateur sh ⁇ , Steve.

However, I will say, because it's a cheap get, because anyone can do it at any time.

And now, you know, she's alerted.

It will never work again.

You're going to check it every time you go into the, you know, you get into the car.

That is now no longer a good get, but I'm going to allow you one point for it because you did it first.

Okay.

You changed the game.

Okay.

But now you can't, and you get, and you're entitled to one reprisal if you can try it that way.

His car doesn't have heated seats.

Well, but I mean, you could what?

Show some creativity.

Yeah.

He's a bike commuter, so I'd have to put like a hot water bottle on his seat or something.

No, but the whole point is you're you're driving together, right?

So you're the driver, right?

And you're Subaru Forrester.

So you, you know, next time you park the car, bump up his seat, and then when you get in the car together, but now I just had to spoil it for you.

I mean, maybe you don't deserve to play Steve.

You're not exactly playing three-dimensional chess here.

What I'm saying is, it's a good get for Steve.

You get one get like that if you can get it, but that stands for one point.

And from now on, you keep score.

And you keep us posted as to who's winning every month throughout the winter.

Lorian and Steve, please welcome Alicia and Mike.

All right, Alexa and Meek, which one of you...

I'm sorry.

Good enough for me.

Which of you seeks justice in this court?

I do.

And Alicia, I presume.

And what is the justice you seek?

So we've had a long-standing dispute over, it's a sweet sugar pie with nuts in it.

I pronounce it a pecan pie.

And Mike says pecan.

It's a pecan pie.

I can feel the mob getting restless.

Yes.

And I'm originally from Kansas, and so it's like pecan, like it's just pecan.

In Kansas, everyone says pecan.

Yeah.

Pecan.

Pecan.

I'm originally from Central Mass, where we say pecan.

Right.

Where in Central Mass are you from?

Where?

That's what I'm asking.

Where in Central Mass are you from?

Where?

Third base.

For those of you who have never left the state of Maine,

there is a town in Massachusetts called WHERE.

W-A-R.

Actually,

I should have done this.

There's a town in Massachusetts called WHERE.

It's spelled W-O-R-C-E-S-T-E-R.

Yeah.

And you are not Vayners.

You have driven here from Massachusetts to be here, right?

Yeah.

Well, thank you very much for taking your lives in your hands.

It was a convenient part of our vacation.

And your vacation is to go north in the winter?

Yes.

Yes.

And are you celebrating?

Seeking slush?

And are you celebrating something?

Yeah, so we met on this day in 2012.

Oh, wonderful.

Yeah, it's our meativersary.

Your meativersary.

Yeah.

Where did you meet?

Well, on the internet, technically.

Oh.

I usually like to tell people it was at Jurassic Park, but

that's not true.

It's a more dramatic screen.

Wait, when you tell people that you met at Jurassic Park, not at a screening of the film Jurassic Park, but at the tropical island full of dinosaurs known as Jurassic Park?

That we were on an amusement park ride, and then all of a sudden it broke down and we were there next to each other, but then the fences went down and

some of the animals started to get loose.

And oh wait, no, it was okay, Cupid.

That's a good story, Mike.

Thank you.

That's why I married him.

I mean, you understand that you're both adorable.

I'd like to learn more about you, and I'm just

teasing it out a little bit longer because this is a nothing burger case that we're going to decide very quickly.

Well, and I don't want to change the way that Mike says pecan.

It's totally fine to keep calling nuts pecan and pies generally.

Right.

Pecan pies.

It's just specifically when I make a pecan pie, I would like it to be called a punkan pie.

Oh.

So

I know it's nitpicky, but like

there's a certain like sweetness to pecan versus pecan.

Right.

And when I'm like sitting there gingerly flipping the pecans over so it's not the brain side, but like the pretty ridged side.

Not the brain side.

Like I want it to be called like it's a pecan pie.

The pie that you make.

Yeah, just specifically mine.

So just out of sense of regionalism and understanding,

I mean, mean, this is a true regionalism, whether you say pecan or pecan.

Yes.

And I'm like,

who here would say pecan?

And who here would say pecan?

Wow.

So outback people say pecan, and forester people say pecan.

Got it.

Maybe it's not as regional as I thought.

But in any case,

you are a person of Kansas, and you say pecan.

Yes.

And I have always said pecan because I am also from Massachusetts.

But I think that the request is entirely appropriate.

You can call any pecan pie a pecan pie, except for a pecan pie made by your bride, Alicia.

So if she, it's just like if the, if the, I don't want to talk about the president.

I was going to say if the president's on an airplane, it automatically becomes Air Force One.

We're not going to talk about that.

If the president is on a spaceship, it's automatically Colonial colonial one.

So it is that at pie made by Alicia, using the non-brain-sided pecans, it is always going to be referred to by you, Mike, and all, a pecan pie.

So say we all.

Alicia and Mike.

This week's episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast, recorded live on stage in Portland, Maine, at the State Theater with our musical guests, the Night and Day Jazz Trio.

This week's case was named by Jonathan Schleiman or possibly Schliemann.

Recorded by our friend Jeff Bird, produced by the wonderful Hannah Smith, and edited by Jennifer Marmer.

If we sound different, I am recording from home, and we will be for the coming weeks.

We'll see for how long.

Things might be a little different, but we've got a few episodes in the can.

We've got some live shows still to come, and we'll record some docket shows from home as well.

That's about all we need to say, right, John?

Yeah, that's all we have to say.

Thanks for letting us keep your untouched faces and well-scrubbed hands company during this time.

Be well out there, everybody.

Yeah, we're thinking of everybody out there.

It's been tough for everybody, and

so we're grateful you're spending some time with us.

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