Tattoos of Limitations

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Tattoos of Limitations.

Misty files suit against her husband, Scott.

Scott started getting tattoos in his mid-30s and now has tattoos covering his upper arms.

Scott has intentionally not told his parents about his tattoos.

Misty thinks he should come clean.

Scott wants to keep them a secret.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Livia, Olivia, say have you met Livia?

Livia, the poisoning lady.

By tainting wine and food and figs, she maintains control of her cardboard digs.

Livia, Olivia, she's full of Nvidia.

Livia, the schemer of schemes.

Protecting Rome or so, she claims.

She poisons, betrays, and rapists, frames.

But how can she remember all of their names?

It's not easy, being Livia.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you may swear them in.

Miss D.

Scott, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever.

Yes.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he made us listen to that caterwalling just now?

Yes.

Yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Jesse Thorne, you know who that was singing, not me.

You know what pot of feces you're stirring with that slander.

But to Misty and Scott, first of all, Misty and Scott, have a seat.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that not I, but someone else sung as I entered the courtroom.

Misty, let's start with you.

I'm going to say an old cartoon.

Maybe Felix.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's almost correct.

Very adept, very astute.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but I will say it's more correct than guesses usually are.

Okay.

What about you, Scott?

Do you have a guess?

Well, I had in my mind Fantasy Island because of the character tattoo, but that clearly is not that.

Yeah, maybe it's obvious.

So it sounds like, you know, some song from a vaudeville show, maybe the tattooed lady or something.

That's my guess.

Also, almost correct.

All guesses are almost correct, but all of them are also wrong.

The reason I'm so tickled by your guesses, and frankly, aghast at Jesse's

characterization, is that as our Maximum Fun Network label mate, and I dare say friend, Elliot Kalen, one of the try-hosts of the Flophouse podcast, a very popular podcast here on the Maximum Fun Network.

Sometimes I pretend that they're our rivals because they do a little bit better than we do, but they're not our rivals, they're our friends.

And if you don't know who Elliot Kalen is, and you don't know the Flophouse podcast, you should take a listen to it.

It's three friends, three smart, funny friends watch a terrible movie and then talk about it.

Simple as can be.

And Elliot Kalen

used to be the head writer for the daily show with Jon Stewart when Jon Stewart was the host.

And is a small man who I think would be flattered by a a comparison to Felix the Cat.

It's apt.

He's a little bit of a mischief stirrer, for sure.

And what he's known for on the Flopass podcast is making up songs on the fly.

Now that tune, and this is where you are almost correct, Scott, that tune is actually a song called Lydia the Tattooed Lady.

It was written by Harold Arlen and Yip Harberg for the 1939 Marx Brothers movies At the Circus.

Lydia the Tattooed Lady is essentially Groucho Marx's signature song, one of his signature songs.

But Elliot had written new lyrics to it to reflect a character,

a main character from the famous BBC mid-70s miniseries about ancient Rome called I Claudius.

And that was just a little preview of a little side hustle that Elliot and I have been doing, been putting together.

We recorded 12, actually 13 episodes of a very special maximum fun miniseries event called iPotius, in which we watch and recap every episode of iClaudius.

So that's a little plug for something that's going to happen.

And I can tell the listeners now that I have been informed by our incredible producer Jordan Cowling that iPotius, all 12 episodes, will drop mid-February.

Mid-February.

All of them will drop at once.

So you have all the time in the world to go see iClaudius and follow along with us.

So you're both wrong.

Hey, Mr.

Sky, you ever watch iClaudius?

Never.

Never.

You have any idea what I'm talking about?

No.

No.

No way, man.

I'm not an old man like you.

I'm a young man with tattoos on my arms.

I'm prejudging you and ordering you, sentencing you to watch iClaudius so you can listen to iPodius, the podcast that we did about it.

But meanwhile, let's hear this case.

Misty, you bring this case against Scott.

What's your beef?

Okay.

So my husband has tattoos.

He's an adult and he has never told his parents.

Oh my goodness.

And I want him to tell his parents.

Misty, when you say his parents, do you mean his mommy and his daddy?

His mommy and his daddy, yes.

Thank you.

How adult are you, Scott?

I'm 41.

Yeah, you're definitely a grown-up.

It says here that you live in Atlanta, Georgia?

We do for two years now.

But based on the evidence you submitted, which we'll get to in a moment, it would seem that you, Scott, and you, Misty, and I, John Hodgman, have met before.

Is that correct?

Yes, we did.

We met in Charleston, West Virginia, and we saw you in Atlanta in November.

Oh, just recently, Jesse Thorne and I did the live Atlanta show.

Yeah.

Yes.

Nice to speak to you again.

You sent in a nice photo of the three of us with me signing a thing.

And I was like, that's got to be the West Virginia show

because

it was in the lobby of that museum.

right?

The Museum of West Virginia.

The Cultural Museum.

And you were quite miffed that Misty didn't know who Patrick Stewart was.

Now I'm miffed again.

I'm double miffed.

I was nervous.

Do you know who Patrick Stewart is now?

Absolutely.

How did you not know?

How old are you?

12?

38.

You're a grown-up, too.

Yes, I knew who he was.

Just could not remember.

You know who's in iClaudius?

Patrick Stewart.

Among many famous British character actors?

Yeah, Patrick Stewart.

Check it out.

Check it out.

I know you will.

I ordered you to.

Okay.

Well, nice to talk to you guys again.

Now, Scott, tell me about your tattoos.

Where are they?

How many do you have?

You know, hiding them from your mommy and daddy.

You've got to keep them on your bum, right?

They're not going to look there.

Not since you were 35.

Did they look there?

Yeah.

So, no, they are all on my,

you know, basically my arms from my shoulder down to just the top of my elbow, both inside and out.

So I'd say I technically have

like five.

You started with one small one and then added on to it and started getting bigger pieces and incorporating smaller things into one thing.

Kind of became a midlife crisis obsession for me, I guess.

But you've barely wandered into midlife.

You still have a year of youth left to you.

Maybe you're well past your midlife.

I don't know.

I hope you live a good long time is my point.

So you have like two half sleeves of interlocking tattoos from each of your respective shoulders down to each of your respective elbows, which is tricky, right?

Because I'm presuming you're hiding these from your mommy and daddy by wearing, you know, long sleeve shirts.

But if you put on a t-shirt, they would see, right?

That's correct.

Yeah, you didn't plan this very well.

Let's take a look at these things.

Let's go to the evidence.

Let's take a look at these tattoos.

What was the first one you got?

So the very first one was basically a Celtic knot

that was formed with bass and treble clefts clefs because when I'm not doing my day job, I'm a musician and that's kind of my passion hobby.

And I don't know if that's represented in the evidence, but I added on to that.

Did you not see the evidence?

I did, but I don't think I sent the individual very first tattoo.

I think I sent you the larger one that has a microphone and the guitar neck, and in the middle of that is that, you know, Celtic knot that I referenced.

No, no, no, no.

I could pick out what the, I know what a Celtic knot looks like, sir.

I know what a treble clef and a bass clef look like as well.

I got it.

I see it right here on your left arm.

I am looking at the evidence right now, and I have to admit that I was ready to mock Scott's Celtic knot made out of bass and treble clefs, which is the dorkiest phrase I've ever heard in my life.

But it looks pretty good.

Thank you.

Did you design it yourself, Scott?

No, sadly, I found that design on the internet, and that was my very first tattoo.

Hey, if you want to see all of Scott's tattoos, including his dorky Celtic knot, all of these photos, of course, are going to be published on the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfund.org, as well as on our Instagram, which is at JudgeJohnHodgman.

And then, so on your left shoulder and upper arm, you've got the Celtic knot, you've got the microphone, an old-timey microphone.

That's right.

You've got a rose, you've got a lot of musical notes,

and some flowers and stuff.

And it's mostly grays and blacks with some red musical notes.

And then on that other, on this other arm,

tell me about what you got.

Okay, so it's an owl, a colorful owl, and I got that basically in kind of celebration of getting my PhD.

That's on the outer side, because owls are smart.

I'm looking at exhibit B, and I would have sworn this was a lobster.

And now you're gaslighting me telling me it's an owl.

I'm cycling through all of these things, and I don't see an owl anywhere here.

Exhibit C, I see more sheet music and notes.

I don't see an owl anywhere.

Why are you telling me this lobster is an owl?

Sorry, I was looking at the wrong photo.

So now I am on track.

And so, yes, I grew up in Massachusetts, and my parents now live in Portland, Maine and to celebrate my affinity for the area I got this lobster in the lighthouse to kind of represent where I've come from.

I wish the podcast could have preserved the look on my face as I looked at this lobster and you said yeah it's an owl.

It speaks directly to one of my weird and sort of most Stephen Kinging horror story Maine experiences, which was when my wife and I were pregnant with our first child.

We visited her dad in Maine, staying at her then deceased grandmother's house.

It was a dark, dark, silent night on the coast of Maine.

And all of a sudden, I swear to you, we heard this sound outside:

Ah!

Ah!

Like, I sat bolt upright.

I was like, there's someone outside.

There's some distressed weirdo man yelling outside.

And I looked out the window and I couldn't see anything.

I went back to bed and I heard again, ah!

And I said, should we wake up your dad?

And my wife was like, no, let's not wake him up.

Let's just wait.

And finally, it went away.

And

the next morning, I described the sound to my father-in-law.

And I said, it was really disturbing.

And I think there was someone in distress out there.

And he goes,

it was probably an owl.

I love owls as a symbol of academic success because they remind me of a joke from my friend Chris Fairbanks' act where he says, hey, nice mortarboard owl, but I haven't seen you on campus all semester.

I know.

They're notorious

class cutters, the owls.

I'm looking through all these photos.

I don't see a picture of one darn owl.

Where are you getting this?

Where's the owl?

I thought it was submitted for evidence, Judge.

I apologize.

No, but I do see a photo, speaking of mortarboards.

Here's exhibit D, I guess.

Scott and his father at Scott's doctoral hooding.

That's correct.

And there you are.

You're wearing a mortar board.

And there's your dad.

Your dad is so proud and he's so happy.

And he has no idea that you've been keeping a secret from him.

For how long?

When did you get this Celtic knot?

Gosh, we're going on probably eight years now.

Yeah.

Eight years, right?

Eight years.

And for the past eight years, you've been wearing long sleeves at all occasions, hanging out with your dad, keeping this secret from him.

And I guess you're pretty confident that he doesn't listen to any podcasts, right?

Because obviously,

this whole thing could be blown right now.

It could be.

He only listens to Rogan, Your Honor.

Yeah, does your dad listen to Rogan?

That would be a hard no.

He just likes to get a variety of viewpoints.

Yeah, he's a free thinker, right?

Yeah, exactly.

He is an academic.

Does your daddy vape?

That'd be a definite no as well.

So it sounds like your dad's pretty straight-laced.

He doesn't listen to Rogan.

He doesn't vape.

He's got a pretty narrow mind.

Is this why you want to hide these tattoos from him or what?

What's the reasoning?

Yeah, I mean, basically, my parents are, you know, I would say old-fashioned, but, you know, or conservative, however you want to term it, but just kind of baby boomers that came up, you know, a hard scrabble life and made a good good life for themselves and seemed to be very straight-laced with respect to, you know, societal norms.

And they always tend to have a way to make mountains out of molehills.

And I know that Misty can attest to this.

You know, even the idea of talking about what's for dinner could create an awkward argument that would last an hour.

So just the thought of having to tell them this big thing is scary.

Misty, can you attest to a conversation about dinner turning into a big conversation that would last an hour?

Dinner, yes, but I think that they are both very open-minded and they are quite liberal.

And I think they would accept it.

And now that we live in Atlanta, I have a feeling his parents, his dad, will be coming to visit.

And Scott cannot wear long sleeves all the time.

Plus, I would like to visit them during the warmer months to get away from the Atlanta heat.

And I would like for him to be comfortable visiting them in Maine in July or August.

So I feel like if he just tells them, you know, ahead of time, give them a few months,

let it sink in, they'll be okay with it.

Missy, when you're visiting Scott's parents, what kind of things

Does Scott do to avoid letting his parents see his tattoos?

He always has to wear long-sleeve t-shirts or button-up shirts.

Going to the shower and from the shower, he has to make sure he's dressed.

He plans.

He stresses about it.

It's a conversation we have before multiple times about what am I going to wear?

Do I need to buy more baseball length t-shirts, like three-quarter-length sleeve shirts?

What's the weather going to be?

It's a lot of preparation.

Jesse, I haven't seen those three-quarter length baseball t-shirts out there for a long time.

Are those in style or out of style currently?

Not even a little bit stylish.

You pretty much have to go to like, not just to a sporting goods store, but to what I would call a dusty sporting goods store

to get them.

One where there's like all the shirts have like a line of soil from the neckline to the shoulder line just from not having been moved on the rack in 15 years.

When I was in high school shopping at the Gap, those were big.

I feel like they came around the same time boxer briefs came around.

Totally.

Where the whole thing was like, let's make everything just a little bit longer.

Yeah.

A little bit longer all around.

Longer tubes.

Longer tubes up top, longer tubes down below.

How many of these dumb t-shirts do you own, Scott?

I would probably say maybe four or five that I've bought specifically for this

purpose.

Scott, how long do you usually stay with your parents?

When this situation was described to me, I immediately imagined visiting parents for a few hours at a time.

But if you're staying at their home, how long are we talking about?

It's usually four days, five days.

Because that's all the shirts he has.

Then you run out of shirts and you get out of Portland?

I guess so.

No, I didn't make that connection until just now, but that was not intentional.

Yeah, usually long weekends.

You know,

we lived in West Virginia for a time.

We moved here for my dad, or moved to West Virginia for my dad's job as an academic when he retired.

They promptly went back to Portland, Maine.

And so we would have to visit them to see them.

My dad would occasionally come back and visit us while we were in West Virginia, but not as often.

So we would, you know, the onus was offs to go see them.

And of course, I want to see them.

At the same time, I'm avoiding this conflict and, you know, preparing as needed to do so.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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Just go to maximumfund.org/slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Court is back in session.

Let's return to the courtroom for more justice.

Scott, there's a picture of you in the evidence performing with your band, which appears to be called the Dial-Up.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

It's a great name.

You're wearing what look like canvas sneakers, maybe a van-style canvas sneakers.

You're wearing jean shorts, and you're wearing what appears to be a sleeveless Super Mario Bros.

t-shirt.

Two questions.

Number one, is this intended to be Jordan Morris cosplay?

Or is it just purely a coincidence that you're dressed exactly like the co-host of my show, Jordan Jesse Go?

And the second question is, how often are you wearing fully sleeveless shirts to show off your ink?

I guess to answer the first question, if it helps my chances, this was completely intentional.

I was just trying to evoke a 90s vibe.

The sleeveless shirt is a byproduct of living in Atlanta where it's very hot for a long period of time.

So I would say during the summer months, I would tend to wear that kind of a shirt

more often than not if I'm going out in a casual weekends environment.

And may I presume to evoke the 90s vibe, the band, the dial-up, is a pop ska band?

Kind of an every band, every genre, 90s,

not just 90s, 90s mostly, but late 80s to early 2000s era, as it were.

Is it a cover band or do you do a Ridge?

It's a cover band, yeah.

It's a lot of fun.

What's your favorite song to perform?

Oh my goodness.

There's so many.

You know, anything that's maybe right now by, you know, the Foo Fighters that seems to be very popular.

I like what makes people react.

You're really rocking out here, and you look, I think you look great.

I think you also look great in your doctoral robes.

You look great both exposed and all covered up.

What is your doctorate in?

Education Sciences.

Lying to Parentology?

Yeah.

That was my minor.

Administration, basically.

Education administration.

Okay, great.

And are you working in that field now?

Yeah, I'm actually kind of.

I'm a contracting officer at a major research university here in Atlanta.

It's within your field, right?

Pretty much, yeah.

I basically help faculty with grants and contracts.

You're living your life, but you're keeping something hidden from your dad.

You've fully embraced all of your interests, both academic

and 90s rock.

And you're wearing that ink proudly on your arms for everyone else in the world.

But your mom and dad, who I'm sure, are proud of you, right?

I think so, yeah.

Absolutely.

So let me ask you this, Scott.

Do you have evidence in your experience that your mom and dad don't like tattoos or think that they simply make you look like a 90s scuzzy indie rocker that is who you are in your heart?

Perhaps a member of the legendary indie rock band, band the Foo Fighters.

Have they expressed disapproval of tattoos?

I mean, in a roundabout way, yes.

I mean, have they specifically, you know, pointedly said, you know, people with tattoos, you know, are all going to hell and are awful people?

No.

But I have heard, you know, general conversation

about, you know, social status, social class, and people with tattoos, you know, particularly with my, you know, my brother as well as my parents.

But it's not just that.

It's any of of these

social, and I struggled to bring this up, but when I was in college, my mother found a condom in my pocket and she screamed like someone had died.

And

that whole experience was so gut-wrenching for me that it's now ruined me for any other kind of awkward conversations with my pants.

Listen, if you're a kid listening to this podcast, ask your mom, dad, or guardian what Scott's talking about.

And I'm not going to describe it to you.

But you were so embarrassed.

Have you just avoided all potentially awkward conversations or revelations with your parents?

Do they know that you're married to Misty?

And may I say one thing?

His parents know that I have a tattoo.

I had that before

we ever met, and they know about it.

Aha, so the plot thickens.

What's your tattoo?

A Celtic knot of a bass clef and a treble clef?

What a coincidence.

Unfortunately, my tattoo is not as great as Scott's.

I got it when I was 21.

It's a butterfly.

It's on my back.

And his parents have always known that I've had it.

Unless Scott's never told me, they've never judged me.

Scott, have your parents ever taken you aside and said, Misty seems like a nice girl, but she's got the most clichéd tattoo possible on her body, and you can't marry her.

She failed to mention the Chinese symbol,

which is even more cliche, I would argue.

What's the tiny symbol?

Oh, Oh, I'm afraid to ask.

It's love.

It's a Chinese symbol for love, so I'm told.

Are you sure?

I was 21.

Oh, I know.

I know.

Tattoos are a record of our bad judgment and poor taste

that we wear with us forever.

I agree.

But Scott waited until he was in his 30s to get his, and he made good decisions.

But my parents have never judged Misty for her tattoo, that's for sure.

Right.

Misty's wonderful.

What do you do down there in Atlanta, Misty?

Oh, thank you.

I work.

I'm a nurse.

That's incredible.

Thank you.

You're allowed to have any dumb tattoo you want if you're a nurse.

I agree.

Thank you.

There are two issues here, Scott, and I'm sure you've considered both of them.

One is whether your parents will, you know, will have an opinion about the basic idea of you having a tattoo, or in this case, many tattoos.

And two,

what are they going to say when they realize that you've had the tattoos for eight years

and you've kept it hidden all that time?

But now you've got eight years of deception that you've got to have to explain to them.

Does that factor into your decision making, Scott?

You know, I hadn't thought of it in that context.

To me, it's more of just, I guess, protecting them from any, you know, any being upset or being aggravated.

They've had a rough year with health issues.

My dad's had some health issues.

He's doing better now, but the last thing I want to do is bring unnecessary strife to their lives.

You know, they're retired.

They're trying to live their best lives now.

You know, I feel like it's unnecessary to

burden them with this when what they don't know doesn't hurt them.

Misty, does that make sense to you?

I don't think that they would be stressed.

I think that they would accept it.

Yeah, I don't think they'd be stressed at all.

His mom is very artistic.

I think that she would be proud of him.

I think that she would like them.

She would like the tattoos.

No, I disagree.

You think, but you don't know.

Well, no.

But I'm pretty certain that they would rather their son be happy and comfortable and not sweating with a long-sleeve t-shirt on.

And plus, if his dad comes to visit us in Atlanta, during the warm months, there's no way he's going to be able to hide this.

What was your dad's position?

What did he study?

So he was a biochemist.

When he retired, he was the senior associate dean for research at a medical school.

So when did he retire again?

2004.

14.

14, I'm sorry, 2014.

That's a long time ago now.

They're settled in Portland.

This has been a hard year, you say?

Like, is there a time when

conceive of revealing this to them when things settle down and whatever's going on with their health issues?

Now that there's distance between us, you know, just visiting them maybe twice a year, you know, again,

we're not seeing them a ton of times.

And I don't feel like it

me doing what I do to conceal the fact that I have tattoos, I don't think it diminishes the time we spend together.

It doesn't certainly diminish my love for them.

I feel like it's

protecting any, again, undue stress.

So I don't feel like it's

watering down the experience, if that makes sense.

Does anyone else know about your tattoos in your family?

My older brother does.

And I only told him because I was goaded by my wife to do so.

And he accepted.

And if he would accept them, I know Scott's parents would.

Why?

What's your older brother all about?

He's an interesting fella.

He dances to the beat to his own drum.

He's a wonderful, interesting, colorful guy,

says what he thinks and thinks what he says.

Definitely was scared to tell him.

Definitely sounds like someone who wouldn't be into tattoos or Joe Rogan.

He isn't though.

You know, I say that, but at the same time, I have heard him audibly make condescending comment to a barista at a coffee shop because they had a neck tattoo.

And he kind of implied that maybe his coffee was now unclean because somebody with a neck tattoo had served it to him.

So again, he's an enigma.

Let me say this about that.

Boo.

I agree.

I agree as well.

That's rude and mean.

That is.

And the fact that he accepted, I feel like Scott's parents would be definitely okay with it.

They would never say anything like that.

Did you talk to your brother about whether, about the fact that you've been hiding them from your mom and dad, and did he have an opinion on it?

You know, kind of just was like, well, if that's what you want to do, I did think, I do remember him implying, well, mom and dad are not going to be happy about that.

They definitely won't approve of it.

But that was really as far as it went.

I didn't want to get too in-depth in the conversation because, again, it was awkward for me.

So I kind of, you know, just just kind of glossed over it after the fact and you know now it's really a non-issue between us so we don't really talk about it anymore he's used to them now so when did you reveal this to him about 2015 or 16.

okay

which is probably correct yeah yeah a long time ago he's had this power over you this whole time don't you realize what a blackmail opportunity is compromat i agree fraternal compromat do you have a good relationship with him i do we get along pretty well he could blow you up pretty quick Yes.

Has he ever threatened to?

Thankfully, no, no.

But that was a fear of mine.

Have you ever, Misty, have you ever encouraged your brother-in-law to just spill the beans?

Or have you ever felt like just calling up your mother-in-law and father-in-law and just going like, guys, you got to know this?

Scott's got a bunch of tattoos.

Yeah, Scott's got to tell his parents.

I think he should just text him a photo or have him listen to the podcast.

Yeah.

Can you handle it, pops?

Scott, surely you have thought about telling them in the past, right?

Yeah, yeah, I have.

I have.

If you had to tell them, say,

because

your brother was blackmailing you, or say a podcast told you to,

what would be

the scenario that you envision?

Would you sit them both down?

Would you get like a breakaway shirt?

I don't think I'd be that dramatic.

I would like to do it in person you know just because i think that that would be a good thing to do or maybe i don't know you know now i'm second-guessing it maybe maybe over text is the way to do it pretend i'm your pops and do a little role play with me i'm your dad

and you're visiting me in portland and your mom's here too and we're just cutting up vegetables in the kitchen like they do in

in movies when they show families.

And you're going to, you just like decide you got to tell me because a podcast told you to or your brother's blackmailing you say the words you would say and but and however you would say it and just end it with can you handle it pops that's all i ask okay

um okay we'll give it a shot well son how are you today it's good to i'm glad you're visiting me here in portland this is a massachusetts accent that i'm using

okay so so dad mom There's something I want to tell you.

Don't freak out because it's nothing serious.

There's nothing bad.

Everybody's healthy.

Everybody's fine.

But I've been keeping something from you for a long time and I want to fess up and be honest.

I guess at that point I would roll up my sleeves and say, I, for the last several years, have been getting some tattoos and here they are.

It doesn't change who I am.

I've been very successful in life, you know, doing very well in Atlanta.

I have my advanced degree.

I'm happily married.

We want for nothing.

And I'm still the same son that you've known all your life, but I just wanted you to know.

And the reason I didn't tell you is because I was afraid you would be disappointed.

And and that fear of disappointment from your parents, I guess, never goes away even when you're 41.

So, please don't be mad.

I love you.

I have tattoos.

Can you handle that, Pops?

Oh, I thank you for your honesty.

While I respect your right to live your life however you wish, please know that you are now officially disowned.

And I only have one son now, your brother.

You may leave.

Seems unlikely that he would say that.

I don't know what he would say.

I mean, that's the thing.

We don't know.

But how did you feel when you were saying that to me?

Faking it, even in a fakey way.

I mean, if I'm being honest, I felt okay about it.

Felt maybe a little cathartic because, you know, it's a double-edged sword.

You know, I am 41 and I can do what I want and I've had a good life and I've done well for myself.

But on the other point, as I've said, the fear of disappointing your parents never goes away from you, no matter how old you are.

So I'm still holding on to that.

Your mock response did nothing to quell those fears.

I appreciate the fear of losing parental approval, but have they ever disapproved of stuff in your past?

Choices that you've made?

Has that affected your life?

You know, only poor choices.

Again, the product of being a yum-dung kid, getting in trouble, doing stupid stuff, whether it was, you know, driving around with my friends, you know,

lighting up firecrackers in front of people's houses or something, you know, dumb kid prank things.

But not since I think I've been a bona fide adult have I done anything to disappoint them.

Well, you said that it's a double-edged sword, and I just wanted to say before I go into my chambers that a double-edged sword would be a cool tattoo to have right down your spine.

Think about it.

If I were to rule in your favor, Scott, never reveal.

Always conceal, never reveal.

Correct?

Yes,

that would be good.

And Misty, if I were to rule in your favor, it's going to be reveal as soon as possible.

Yes.

How does this affect your life, Misty?

Because we do try to hear disputes where the other party is wronged in some way.

Are you being wronged in some way?

Yeah, Scott really stresses over this.

Every time we prepare to go visit them, you know, he's got to figure out his clothes, and it's always going to be during the cooler months.

I see a day that his dad comes to visit us, and it's June, July, or August in Atlanta, and Scott is stressing.

And Scott's wearing a turtleneck.

Yep.

A big chunky turtleneck because he got a neck tattooed just to piss off his older bro.

I got you.

All right.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into this tattoo parlor and have my verdict tattooed onto my chest, upside down, so I can read it.

I'll be back in a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Misty, how do you feel about your chances here?

I don't know.

Not too confident.

I think he's going to make Scott continue to live and live his lies.

Why is that?

To protect his parents.

I could be wrong, but I could see him side in with Scott and say, hey, you've done this for this long.

Keep it up.

Scott, your parents have dealt with you for a long time.

Do they need protecting?

I mean, in general, no, but do I want to save them from unnecessary aggravation?

Absolutely.

And maybe in myself at the same time.

Do you need protecting?

Probably, yeah.

How do you feel about your chances?

Strangely enough, I feel equally as unconfident as Misty does.

I feel like the verdict is leaning her way.

So we'll see.

But yeah, I'm not feeling too good either.

Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this.

Hopefully, everyone will lose when we come back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So, check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lawman.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Before I present my verdict, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, may I guide your attention to one last piece of evidence?

Sure.

It is the photo labeled number nine at the bottom of the evidence.

Mm-hmm.

It's a cat drinking a glass of wine.

Yeah, white wine specifically.

Maybe a Chablis.

Whose cat is that, Misty?

That is our cat, Butters.

He is 15 years old.

Wow, he looks really good for 15.

He is.

He's quite spry.

Looks like he's got some extra toes.

He's lifting his paw up to grab this rather massive glass of

of chardonnay here

does he have extra toes or is that just a blur no he does not have extra toes it does look like it in the photo but no he's got his paws open wide for the wine yeah he wants that wine i just needed to show jesse that photo and now i'm going to judge you the liar has many friends and leads an existence of great loneliness

you know who said that, Scott?

I don't.

The poet and essayist Adrian Rich

from On Lies, Secrets, and Silence.

I was introduced to this book by my wife, and we bandy about a paraphrase of Adrian Rich, which is, we lie when our own truth isn't good enough.

That's heavy, right?

That's heavy.

You've been keeping a lie for a long time.

And as Adrian Rich says, lying is done with words and also with silence.

And I get it.

You're a good boy.

I was a good boy.

I followed all the rules.

I didn't have an older brother to compensate for but because i was an only child and just because of who i am cursed to be because of the way my brain operates i felt a very heavy burden to be follow the rules and be really really really really really good and no trouble at all for my parents and that changed when i turned you know 18 19 and i was away in college And I decided, I don't want to be a good boy anymore.

I want to be a bad boy.

I want to get into some scrapes and some adventures.

And one of the scrapes and adventures I got into was to drive to Portsmouth, New Hampshire and get a tattoo on my shoulder of a diamond.

Why a diamond?

Well, of course, it represents the repeated figure of the diamond that shows up in the short story Death in the Compass by Jorge Luis Borges.

Because, like everybody, I chose my tattoo based on a loathsome affectation.

A pretentious love for Latin American literature in my case.

It was my version of a Celtic knot of bass clefs and treble clefs.

I don't remember how I told my parents that I had this thing, but I told them pretty quick because even though I was a bad boy getting a tattoo on my shoulder of this highly pretentious short story reference, I was also still a good boy and I didn't want to hide something from them, you know?

But it's funny, I don't have a memory of saying it to them or showing it to them, not a specific memory.

I do have a memory once I got started that I wanted to get more tattoos, that I wanted to build a whole sleeve around this diamond on my shoulder.

And specifically, I wanted to get a tattoo of a chili pepper, because it was 1990.

Wait, did you want to get a tattoo of a red-hot chili pepper?

I wanted to get a tattoo of a hot chili pepper, and it was probably going to be red, but it was not going to be a red-hot chili pepper tattoo, not for the band, but for my love of spicy foods.

I was also going to get the words bad baby tattooed on my arm in Spanish because I was learning Spanish at the time.

And then I decided, I think it was Malo Nane.

I couldn't get the translation right.

Thankfully, I couldn't.

And I put a pause on that plan because that would have become what was already a fairly embarrassing looking small, almost prison-style tattoo, would turn into one of the great cliches of the 1990s.

I saved myself.

I'm glad that I never had to reveal that to my parents.

But would I have?

I bet I would have.

So 33-year-old, late-blooming bad boy, you're like, I'm going to get this Celtic knot.

I don't care who sees it, except for my mommy and daddy.

They can never see it.

A weird interplay of rebellion and refusal to rebel in this.

And you kept doing it in quiet, in silence, lying with silence rather than with words.

Building a life for yourself with Misty, with your rock and roll, with with your academics,

becoming a full human adult, making decisions for yourself, but keeping this hidden for now almost a decade.

Adrian Rich says, in lying to others, we end up lying to ourselves.

We deny the importance of an event or a person and thus deprive ourselves of a part of our lives.

We lose faith even within our own lives.

It was a bad decision for you.

to not tell your parents about your tattoos.

I understand why you did it, because you were scared of them being disapproving.

This whole stuff about like you wanted to save them aggravation.

I think that probably you've convinced yourself that that's true.

As you expressed when you sort of did your role play talking to your dad

about

how you've succeeded in life and you've not failed and therefore it's okay that you have a tattoo.

You're not just some

crust unk ska band guy.

You actually are Dr.

Scott, a successful adult man

moving swiftly into middle age.

I thought it was interesting how quickly you said, oh, I'm middle-aged now, 41.

I mean, take it from me.

I also thought I was middle-aged when I was 35.

I'm like you.

I throw myself ahead in years and yearn for the grave.

But you're young.

You deserve to be young.

You deserve to make mistakes.

You deserve to be your own person.

And I know that you know that you deserve the unconditional love and affection of your mom and dad, which you enjoy.

And I am pretty sure

they they would not withhold that love and affection, even if they hated that Celtic knot like nothing else in the world.

Because

you're you.

And you made a mistake by not telling them, and you've compounded that mistake.

And I understand why it just happened day after day, year after year, of wearing long sleeves.

And you compounded that mistake to now the point that you have a double confession to make.

One, you have tattoos.

It's like, who cares?

I mean, look around you.

Everyone in the world's got a tattoo.

You know, there's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about by expressing your own taste and your own personhood.

Right there, you're literally or quasi-literally wearing your knot on your sleeve.

You're showing your thing to the world, but you're hiding it from your mom and dad.

And you've been hiding it for eight years.

And I can only imagine that this is corrosive emotionally, never mind, annoying to Misty.

I think you owe it to yourself to clear this air

because I don't think it's going to be as bad as you think it's going to be.

That said, I don't know.

It could be terrible.

My wife and I bandied about this.

You know, one only lies when the truth isn't good enough.

With regards to a hard email that we had to write some people that we know just to explain, you know, where our limits were, we were like, this might be a little hurtful to them, but if we couch it the right way and express our truth, surely they'll understand.

Oh, they did not.

They did not.

And it caused them a lot of pain, and it turns out they're very unhappy with us.

But

that's okay, too, because now we know.

Now we know what the truth is.

So yeah, I mean, I don't know what else to say.

Scott, you've laid a double trap for yourself.

But you have to show them your big bad baby tattoo and let them know Scott's a bad baby.

Not just a good boy, also a bad baby.

Look at that.

He's got a microphone.

He's got a lobster.

It's got an owl.

He contains multitudes.

It's written on his skin.

And the fact is, Scott, I don't think anybody who goes to Portland to retire is going to be mad that their son has a tattoo of a lobster on their their arm.

So the question is, how do you want to do it, Scott?

Do you want to tell them yourself or do you want me to call them up?

Oh, God.

I should probably tell them myself.

I don't know if they

would appreciate the whimsy of having John Hodgman do it.

As awesome as it would be for us, I do need to consider their feelings.

Clearly, they're not fans because you are so confident in coming on this podcast and telling your stuff to the world, knowing they will never, ever listen to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

But the truth is that maybe on some level, you're like a serial killer in the movies.

You want to be caught.

Because the fact is, your brother knows,

you're putting this out on the podcast.

Yeah.

And your mom found that condom.

That wasn't by accident, Scott.

Even if it was, accidents will happen.

A time will come.

when your brother's going to spill the beans or I'll be up there in Portland just telling every older couple I know that their son is a tattoo,

or you're going to be visiting and you know, your bathrobe's going to slip off by accident or whatever.

I don't know how a t-shirt would fall off exactly, but they'll, you know, your mom

might walk into the bathroom while you're putting your shirt on or whatever and see it.

And then it's like, uh-oh, you got some splaining to do.

I think it's time to get out ahead of this.

So obviously, I'm finding in Misty's favor.

And Scott,

even though your parents

hate Judge John Hodgman so much that they would never listen to it, I'm going to arm you.

You can use this or not.

I'm going to give you this recording to play.

What are their names?

Richard and Elaine.

Richard, Elaine, this is John Hodgman.

I used to be on television sometimes.

I'm an author, comedian, performer, and

a podcaster as well.

I've got a podcast called Judge John Hodgman.

And

your son, Scott, and his wife, Misty, came to me with a dilemma.

And that dilemma was whether or not to reveal to you that Scott has tattoos, not on one arm, two arms, all of his arms, shoulder down to his elbow.

He's been very self-conscious about this for a long, long time because he is afraid that you will dislike the tattoos and you will confuse the things that adorn his skin with the person that he is and that you will dislike him.

Now look,

I know that you love Scott.

I'll tell you something else.

I love Scott.

This guy's a good guy.

He raised a good son.

Look, he's a doctor of whatever he's a doctor of.

He's got an incredible wife, Misty, who's a nurse.

I hope that he's revealed to you that he's also a rock star in a covered band, or else he's been hiding more stuff from you than I thought.

You love Scott.

And the truth is, we all love Maine.

We all have this in common.

So I'm saying this to you.

As someone who visits Maine to someone who has retired to Maine,

let Scott know that he is more than what he wears on his skin, and you see him for much more than that.

As parents, you've seen Scott wear all kinds of terrible clothes that you didn't approve of, that he doesn't remember that, but that you hated, and you still loved him.

So I am not telling you anything that I'm sure you wouldn't tell him.

But just in case,

I'm letting you know that I, a person who used to be on television and now is mostly a podcaster and a writer, I I believe in Scott and I know he's great.

So I am now ordering Scott, as he sits in front of you playing this recording, to lift up his sleeves.

And I'll just close this by saying, can you handle it, Pops?

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Scott, can you handle it, Pops?

You know, I think I can.

You know, it's time.

I have nothing to be ashamed of.

It's only my own fear holding me back at this point, I'm sure.

So

Band-Aid will be ripped in some form or fashion.

Maybe I just hand him my phone with the podcast and run.

It's either going to be ripped off by this podcast or by the fact that you can no longer find a sporting goods store with enough dead stock softball shirts

to keep covering your arms past the elbow.

Misty, how are you feeling?

I feel great.

I think Scott's going to feel a lot better after he tells them, and it'll make visits with them so much more comfortable.

Are you going to feel better too?

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Scott will be a lot more comfortable

and

that will just make me happy.

Do you have a favorite place, Misty, that you could take Scott in Maine if his parents need an hour or two to get over it?

Oh, for sure.

Any of the breweries.

With his fellow half-sleeve Super Mario shirt dads.

Yes.

Misty, Scott, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case.

Kapow in the books.

That's the sound of the books closing after we put the case in there.

I thought that was Lightning McQueen.

Before we dispense some swift justice, our thanks to Doug Wickstra for naming this week's episode Tattoos of Limitations.

If you want to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out our calls for submissions there.

You too could have your name potentially mispronounced by me on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ Ho.

Check out the MaximumFund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com to chat about this episode.

We're also on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman, where you can see the picture of that boozy kitty cat.

Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff like the picture of that boozy kitty cat.

This week's episode recorded by Lexi at Rich Productions.

It was produced by Hannah Smith and edited by Jesus Ambrosio.

Special thanks to Jennifer Marmor for sitting in.

She's here for a picture.

She's almost back.

Yay.

Love her.

We're happy to see her.

Now let's get to Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment.

Lola says, My husband likes to tell tales and amusing lies.

When I see people believing one of his fibs, I can't help saying, he's lying.

Is that so wrong?

Talk about creeps.

Look, it may seem hypocritical for a person who wrote maybe exactly 1,000 pages of fake facts and bald-faced lies in my books, the areas of my expertise, more information than you require, and that is all, to say this is a bad practice.

But yeah, it's terrible.

Don't lie to people's faces.

If you're not writing a book or doing a comedy show, don't say fake things and trick people in general.

I mean, maybe one or two misdirections, but mostly that kind of joking is mean.

And so I would say no.

I would say what

Adrian Rich says, lies are usually usually attempts to make everything simpler for the liar than it really is or ought to be.

It doesn't exactly track with the situation, but it was the only Adrian Rich quote I had left that I hadn't already read.

That's it for this week's Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJ H O or email Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

No cases too small.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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