Bitter Bean Juice

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Who me?

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week to clear the docket.

And with me, as always, is the original disco man, Judge John Hodgman.

Hello, Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Who me?

It's me, John Hodgman, your judge, for the coming however many minutes we record this for.

I don't even know what this.

How long is the podcast, Jesse?

After nine years, I should know.

About 45 minutes?

I have never looked at the clock.

I kind kind of go by feel, so I'm going to say six or eight hours.

Yeah, that's right.

Exactly.

So it's the Dana Gould hour of Judge Podcasts.

Cool, Dana Gould burn.

Take that, our friend Dana Gould, one of the funniest guys in the world.

Folks, if you're not listening to the Dana Gould Hour, it comes out once a month.

It's much longer than an hour.

It is spectacular, I dare say, essential.

Cultural and fun time listening.

Dana Gould hour.

But this is the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I I am your judge, Judge John Hodgman, here in my chambers in Brooklyn.

Yesterday, it was cold and rainy, as it has been all spring, but now, as is traditional in New York City, we had an hour of spring this morning, and now we've moved directly into the hot breath of summer on the back of my neck here in the still humid room that is my chambers in Brooklyn.

I just want to say thank you to everyone who came out to see me at Book Expo.

This is, I'm speaking to you from the past, and Book Expo just happened yesterday for me, but a lot of people came in and had the preview BLADS, which are these little the first chapter in a design cover of my new book, Medallion Status.

They came and had me sign them for them, and I was so excited to see everybody there.

Thank you for that.

Medallion Status, as you know, comes out October 15th.

But the only reason I'm buzz marketing this is because a bunch of you who listened to the podcast reminded me that I had tried to predict the weather for Book Expo, and I had predicted overcast and chilly.

way back when we were recording that episode, and my prediction turned out to be uncannily accurate.

So I have incredible mind powers, I realize now, and I'm going to use my incredible mind powers now to predict the weather for tomorrow,

June 6th, Los Angeles.

You know what it's going to be, Jesse?

It's going to be a beautiful evening.

Wow.

A beautiful, clear, warm evening.

It's not going to be too warm.

It's going to be light jacket weather, so you can wear that jacket that makes you feel good and confident stepping outside the house.

I also predict that parking is going to be extremely available, especially in the toy district of Los Angeles, where is located the Regent Theater,

where we are doing Judge John Hodgman live on stage June 6th.

Tomorrow, if you're listening to this today, which is the day of the release of this episode,

you should come join us.

If we have not sold out, you should take advantage of this good fortune and come join us at the Regent Theater because we're going to have a lot of fun.

We're judging a whole bunch of new cases.

We're going to have a very special musical guest, correct, Jesse?

Pete Fields.

Yes.

And this is your your last chance.

Because if you're not listening to this today, you're listening to it tomorrow, and that means the show is tonight.

And if you're listening to it two days from now, that means the show was last night and you missed it.

Sorry.

You got to listen to my predictions.

So anyway, bit.ly slash JJ H O L A all capital letters.

If you want to get those tickets.

Meanwhile, Jesse, injustice reigns on the streets of the toy district.

Help me clear it up.

Here's something from Nick.

My friend Kurt says, it's okay to put bagged dog waste into someone else's trash can while walking his dog.

I say this is poor form.

It creates an unpleasant situation for whoever has to use the trash can and for the garbage collectors.

While I admit that I don't have a good solution as to where the dog waste should go, I don't think it's my problem since I don't have a dog.

If you rule in my favor, I'd ask you to order Kurt to stop leaving his dog's waste in other people's trash cans.

I feel dog owners can be pretty entitled about the work they leave for others, and I also think most dogs are gross dummies.

Wow.

I think Nick is really crux finding himself here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's fair to say that most dogs are dummies.

That's kind of what makes them so adorable.

But I wouldn't say they're gross.

I mean, they're just doing the things that everyone has to do in order to live, which is eat food, process it, and then poop and pee it out.

But before we jump in on what horrible people both Nick and Kurt are, Jesse, question.

Yes.

First of all, what is the toy district?

It's just something I saw on Google Maps when looking up the Regent Theater.

Is that a real thing?

Yes, it absolutely is a real thing.

One of the wonderful things about Los Angeles, a city which I am ambivalent about, though I've lived here for 10 or 12 years.

But one of the wonderful things about Los Angeles is that in downtown Los Angeles, while recent development has faded this a little bit, there are still

real commercial districts dedicated to single products.

Yes.

So that includes the toy district.

There is, you know, I bought bookshelves for my office in a like commercial furniture district.

In the shelf district.

It's more of a mannequin district, but yes.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

And Jordan Morris and I love on our show, Jordan Jesse Go, to talk about the Bong district, which is just like three blocks of stores that sell imported like tobacco store products

directly out of the cardboard boxes that they were shipped in from East Asia.

And it's great.

All of these districts are great.

The thing that I love to go to the most is there is a millinery store in downtown Los Angeles, as well as a tailor's fabric store.

And both of them are a joy.

Like if you want to go into that millinery store and walk around and check out the variety of silk birds available for purchase.

To say nothing of grosgrain ribbons.

It is a delight, whether or not you are making hats.

Okay, so millinery is making hats.

This is what I want to clarify.

Millinery is hat making.

Okay.

And haberdashery?

Haberdashery is generally selling men's clothing.

Okay, so it's not specifically hats.

No.

All right, that is a misconception.

Cleared up for me by you, and I thank you.

Yeah, well, if Harry S.

Truman were here, he could have cleared it up for us as a former haberdasher.

That's right.

Exactly so.

And, of course, if everyone knows this except for maybe a few of the 12-year-olds out there listening, one of my favorite details about Harry S.

Truman, his middle name is S.

Doesn't stand for anything.

He's probably listening right now in heaven or hell, depending on how you feel about the way that the Second World War ended.

Or whatever.

You know, Jesse, you know, New York City, and indeed Brooklyn, just as a borough on its own, is also a city of neighborhoods.

I live in the neighborhood of Park Slope, but do you know it's changing its name?

Did you know that?

No, I didn't know that.

As of the 20th of September, I believe, this year, 2019, it will now be known as the CBD district.

Every existing retail store, and by the way, there aren't many of them, there's a lot of empty retail right now in Park Slope due to greed of landlords and difficulty in retail.

But the only thing that's really going right now,

CBD.

And 12-year-olds who I just

told you about Harry S.

Truman's middle initial just being his middle middle name, you can ask your parents about what CDB is.

CBD.

CDB is a great William Stigg children's book.

I was about to say the same thing.

Just yesterday, I was reading William Stigg's Pizza Pizza.

Yeah.

That's a good one.

And my two-year-old really enjoyed being made into a pizza.

Dr.

DeSoto is one of our favorites.

Dr.

DeSoto is the mouse who is a dentist.

Oh, home run.

10 out of 10.

Yeah.

Now, since we're talking about animals, a long, long time ago, Nick wrote in about his so-called friend Kurt, who's leaving bags of, I presume, dog poop.

I don't think Kurt is collecting his dog's urine.

Right.

Leaving bags of dog poop in strangers' garbage bins, right?

That's what I took it to mean.

Neighbors' garbage bins.

Yes.

Right?

Now, Jesse, you have several dogs.

I do not.

I have zero dogs.

What is your dog feces disposal?

technique?

Well, I mean, if I am walking my dog on the street.

Yeah.

I mean, generally speaking, my dogs poop in my yard, and we scoop it up with a special scoop, put it in a big bag, and put it in our trash can.

Right.

For collection later.

Yes.

By the city, because we have a civilization, thankfully, at least for me.

Exactly.

But when I am walking my dogs through the neighborhood, I bring three dog poop bags.

When my dogs poop, I pick up their poop.

with extraordinary consistency.

I tie up the bag and I put it in in the first trash can that I see.

The first public wastebasket or first...

There are no public wastebaskets in my neighborhood.

Right.

I don't carry it back to my house.

And you do this with extraordinary consistency, is that correct?

Yes.

In my opinion, this is a choice between

putting bagged trash, very, very...

small volumes of bagged trash into trash cans

or leaving poop on the street.

And I'm just going to ask this again.

You do this with extraordinary consistency?

There's a reason I'm asking.

I never leave poop on the ground.

This is just my long way of getting to the joke that I just thought of.

Would you say that your dog's poops also have extraordinary consistency?

A variety of extraordinary consistency.

This is just a podcast for 12-year-olds with poop jokes.

Did you ever read Mary Roach's book, Gulp?

I have not read that, though I am a great fan of hers.

I have not read that one.

Well, I recommend that, and particularly the chapter about dog food, which she sort of shoehorns in there because it's generally a book about the human alimentary canal, but, you know, the digestive process.

But dog food is really fascinating because it has to have two goals beyond providing basic dog nutrition.

Nourishment.

One of them is dogs have to eat it.

And the other, like, want to eat it.

And the other is that it has to produce consistent poops.

Right, sure.

So, dog food testing involves feeding dog food to dogs, then having them poop and making sure that they poop well.

Man, someone is listening to this right now while working in a dog poop lab at a kibble factory.

And may I say to that person,

thank you, thank you for your work.

Thank you for listening.

If there's anything I can do to help you, just write me, hodgman at maximumfund.org.

Also, someone's listening to this right now who's that guy who used to go on Letterman in the 80s and eat dog and cat food as pate.

He's a dog food taste tester, cat food taste tester.

I thought you were talking about Big Eatie in Grey Gardens.

No.

She also ate some cat food.

There you go.

So basically what you are saying, though, Jesse, is that Kurt's habits are your own.

Yes, that's absolutely true.

I mean, certainly if I'm in a public park or another place where there are public trash cans, I'd be glad to use those trash cans.

And I certainly wouldn't put an unbagged dog dropping into a stranger's trash can.

How would that even work?

I mean, if I was carrying the scoop around, I guess.

Oh, yeah, okay, I got you.

But the reality is, and, you know, like I said, if I'm in a park, I'll put it in a public trash can.

But

this argument that it presents a burden to other people's trash cans is laughable to me.

Or to garbage carriers whose job is to process bagged garbage.

Yes.

If you are a trash collector and you are listening to this podcast, thank you also for your service.

Even though sometimes you slow me down when I'm driving my son to work, I appreciate that we have a civilization and you're taking that garbage away.

I'm riding him on you for making your son work.

He's pretty young.

That's right.

I'm driving him to his work, which is school.

I forgot.

School and thence to the rug factory, where his nimble fingers.

School and then chimney sweeping is an after-school program.

So that's their job.

So I'm going to just cross that right out first of all, Nick.

I agree with you there, Jesse.

Now, as regards your and Kurt's habit,

as I recall, the way trash cans are organized in Los Angeles is that there are various bins in which residents who usually have little homes

will sort their trash into trash and recyclables or whatever.

And then once a week, they bring those bins out to the curb.

Are you dumping these poop bombs in the curbside bins, or are you going onto someone's property to put it in the bins?

Paint me a picture.

I mean, I imagine that I'm going onto people's property in the sense that I might be crossing into their driveway, but I'm not opening any doors or gates or anything like that.

In the neighborhood in which I live,

which is a weirdly semi-rural urban neighborhood

where I live right next to a dirt road.

The trash cans are generally not kept in garages.

They're generally kept on the curb.

Just out, yeah.

It's really interesting because I was all set to trash Kurt upon the ash heap of history and rub his nose in the pile of poop of my judgment.

But I don't have a dog, so I can't,

maybe I'm being too strict about this.

And truthfully, where I live here in the CBD district of Brooklyn, there are a lot of trash receptacles.

There are public trash receptacles, and I wouldn't think twice about putting a bag of poop that I presumably got from a dog into one of those.

And as well, I throw my sort of day-to-day trash into the private trash cans of some of the buildings around me.

I think what Kurt is doing is acceptable within reason, so long as he is being tidy.

He is not going

substantially onto a neighbor's property, which I would advise him not to do, not only for legal reasons, but for his own safety, because you don't know how a property owner is going to think about you dumping poop in that garbage.

And that poop is not going to get all messy down in that garbage.

That thing's got to be bagged up real well.

I can't go against my own bailiff in this.

So I'll say that probably the most ethical thing to do is to bag up that poop and bring it home and put it out with your own garbage.

That's the most ethical thing to do.

But if you pull a bailiff, Jesse Thorne, I'll turn a blind eye.

Just be respectful of other people's stuff.

And meanwhile, Nick, it's none of your business.

You don't have standing to take this to my court anyway because it's not not harming you in any way.

You don't own a dog.

So stop bothering Kurt and his dog.

Have you ever found someone else's poop in your garbage?

I found lots of other people's garbage in my garbage.

All right.

I mean, you know, if somebody's walking down the street and they finish their can of Coke, I'd rather they put it in my recycling than drop it on the ground.

And I don't think it's likely that they're going to carry it around with them for the rest of the day.

All right.

All right.

Just making sure the golden rule is being applied here that you're treating others as the same garbage as they're treating your garbage as garbage.

But

I have a question.

Isn't there already a plastic bag ban in California?

You can't get a plastic bag for free at the grocery store.

Oh, okay.

But I don't think all plastic bags are banned.

Yeah, because that's true.

I personally purchase, I think they're corn-based biodegradable bags for my dog pickup.

And I will occasionally reuse

the plastic bag that some produce came in or whatever.

Listen to this guy.

Listen to this virtue signaler.

He thinks his dog poop don't stink.

Well, it doesn't because I tied it up in a plastic bag.

Carrie says, my husband always makes an entire pot of coffee and then just reheats the leftover coffee the next day.

He's saving at most a marginal amount of time and it's clearly not worth it to have to drink terrible day-old coffee.

Please make him stop this nonsense.

Very interesting.

Jesse, you have migraine headaches from time to time, and you do not drink coffee.

Is that correct?

That's true.

It is a trigger for your migraines.

It is.

It is also a weird bitter bean juice that I wouldn't want to drink anyway.

So now that you reject all coffee, even as a theory,

how does this sound to you in the abstract?

Well, my wife is a coffee enthusiast.

She was once upon a time a barista, picked up the

coffee snobbery inherent in all careful coffee preparing.

And, you know, she's got a burr grinder and she makes her pour over a special way.

And she loves it.

And I'm glad that she loves it because she's snobby about so very little in her life that I'm glad that she has something to be snobby about.

To me, I think there are people who love coffee, such as my wife.

There are people for whom coffee is a drug delivery system.

and I mean no

judgment in saying that.

I think it's fine.

I think caffeine is a useful and not particularly harmful drug unless it happens to be a migraine trigger for you.

And,

you know,

if you drink coffee to get pumped in the morning when you'd otherwise be sleepy or whatever, and you don't care how it tastes, then God bless you.

Yeah.

My mother-in-law reheats her coffee endlessly throughout the day.

And she does this in the microwave oven,

often between sips.

It's cool.

I feel Carrie's frustration here

because

it is wildly disruptive and enervating to me that she keeps getting up to reheat her coffee in the microwave.

And every time

she has to relearn how to use a microwave.

I love love you, Gwen.

That said, what she is doing is, within the context of this fake internet court, perfectly legal.

People drink coffee the way they drink coffee.

As you point out,

it is a very personal ritual that you are enjoying for a variety of reasons.

For the burst of the perfectly healthy and historically used for all generations of humanity stimulant caffeine.

For the flavor and the aroma and the joy of the snobbery of doing it exactly the right way the way you want it.

Because it is something that has so many variables in it, both in terms of

source of beans,

roast of beans, grind of beans, temperature of water, the method of preparation,

whether or not you put milk or sugar or whatever in it.

It's one of these habits that is incredibly moddable to your personal taste and allow you to develop a taste that you can then fight about with others, right?

Everyone has their own way of enjoying coffee.

And guess what?

I drink old coffee.

We don't even have a thermos to keep the hot coffee in.

I'll have like one cup of hot coffee a day, and I'll continue to drink from that carafe.

I use a Chemex, and it just gets colder and colder until it's all gone, or I leave what's left for the morning, and I'll drink yesterday coffee.

I drink so much yesterday coffee that a cup of hot coffee now feels like a weird anomaly.

And that might gross you out, but who cares what you think?

I'm not making you drink it.

You know, Carrie's husband has a system, right?

He has a system.

And as much as it would please the audience for me to send every man with a system directly to the guillotine after a barbaric show trial while I'm dressed up in a blood-red Grand Inquisition robe like Q in the first episode of Star Trek the Next Generation, while that would probably be the ratings hit of the whole run of this show.

The fact is, Carrie has not demonstrated that this causes her any harm or damage.

It's a matter of personal taste.

I have a question.

Yeah.

Do you think that he makes her drink this coffee?

Like he's in charge of the coffee making, and so her whole life is drinking yesterday's coffee because he's the coffee maker.

Well, I don't know.

If that were the case, then obviously I would rule in Carrie's favor or I would encourage her to make her own coffee or get a divorce.

But one

thing, there's a thin line that that stands between this podcast, which is a fake justice podcast, versus what it sometimes very happily strays into, which is

an ethics or etiquette podcast, or just help me yell at my loved one podcast, is there has to be standing.

You have to show that this has an effect on you in some way.

Other than just spousal enervation, because that's going to happen no matter what.

Try to show some standing.

If your spouse is making you drink bad coffee, then by all means, speak up and just let me know in the case because then I'll probably rule in your favor.

But in this case, Carrie, I'm ruling in your husband's favor.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry to all those of you who feel let down because I've ruled in favor of a husband now, I think, twice in nine years.

Let's take a quick break.

More items on the docket coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week, and we've got something from Carl.

My partner and I have a tradition of splurging on the expensive and strange chocolate bars near the checkout of our local food co-op.

We keep this candy bar on our kitchen counter and tear off little nibbles as needed throughout the next few days.

Yeah.

I believe you should...

Little nibbles.

I believe you should.

We just found out what Judge Hodgman's moist is.

Aside from moist.

I believe you should always break the chocolate bar according to the imprinted squares.

My partner makes abstract breaks in the bar, disregarding these squares.

Who's right?

All right, so here we have standing, right?

Because Carl, they're sharing this chocolate, and Carl wants it broken neat and tidy along the squares, and Carl's partner is just breaking it off will I nill I.

And as much as I want to rule against both of them for saying little nibbles,

I'm willing to hear this case.

Jesse, chocolate is also a migraine trigger.

Is that true?

Yeah, chocolate is a pretty bad migraine trigger for all.

It's probably the most common migraine trigger.

So you don't enjoy chocolate at all.

Again, this is purely abstract for you.

Well, I enjoy the heck out of chocolate.

I just avoid it generally because it's a migraine trigger.

Oh, do you like every now and then just like throw caution to the wind and go, I'm going to have it now?

I haven't eaten a chocolate dessert or chocolate, like a chocolate bar in years.

But I do,

if I'm feeling pretty good, because migraine triggers are not a binary thing.

It's not like

it's not a one-to-one relationship between engaging in a triggering behavior and then getting a headache.

I do make special dispensation for ice cream that has little chocolate things in it.

It's it's which is a frozen confection of the San Francisco Bay Area Area that is two chewy oatmeal cookies with ice cream in between dipped in chocolate.

Not currently a sponsor of this podcast.

Not currently a sponsor.

Not yet.

No.

And chocolate chip cookies.

But

I don't eat a ton of them, and I'm pretty careful about all of them.

And I also tend to avoid the dark chocolate versions of those.

It's got a lot more chocolate in it.

Oh, okay.

So dark chocolate would be more of a risk factor for you?

Yeah, I mean, you know, milk chocolate is

half milk.

But you know, the chocolate bars that Carl and his partner are little nibbling here, right?

Yeah, and these are something that I, while I would buy them at my local grocer for my wife, because I wish I like to imagine myself eating them.

Yeah.

And giving them to her is like the closest I can get.

I have not eaten one of those in many years.

Yeah, these are the expensive, there are a lot of brands of them they're expensive they're beautifully designed bars of you know bean-to-bar artisanal chocolate and they're wrapped in in thick like heavy stock paper and they're usually you know amped up with like bacon and or like exotic kinds of nuts or mint or like cbd cbd well let me tell you

you're absolutely right because here in the cbd district all of the little grocery stores now are slamming out the chocolate bars with CBD in them.

And there's a reason they're putting those chocolate bars, those expensive chocolate bars right there at the front of that point of purchase sweet spot,

semi-literal sweet spot, semi-literal semi-sweet spot, if it's dark chocolate.

Because it's a profit center.

It's because those things are really jacked up on the price.

Really jacked up.

And I'm sure it's not inexpensive to make.

I don't know the economies of making chocolate.

I don't think all these companies would be in this business if there wasn't a serious markup on that fancy gourmet chocolate.

Because these chocolates, like even you, Jesse, these chocolates,

you're buying them, right?

And you can't even have them because you want your wife to be happy, sure, but also

they're like a lifestyle product.

It's a luxury consumable that's right in the right range, that like

less than $5 range that a fancy cup of coffee is in.

Right.

Where if you aren't paying attention, you can just spend that money without thinking about it.

Yeah.

And sometimes they're like 10 bucks or 12 bucks for a chocolate bar.

I don't eat any of these sweets.

There is one that I like, though.

I do like chocolate, especially darker chocolate, because I like savory more than sweet, or

bitter more than sweet.

But I like the Ritter Sport bars.

Do you know those guys from the German company Ritter Sport?

Sure.

Yeah.

There are a lot of different variations, but there's one that's got cornflakes in it, which they call canusperflaka.

That alone, that alone is worth the price.

But first of all, those cornflakes and chocolate is great.

It's like really, really good Nestle's Crunch bar.

And I also love Ritter's Sport Bar because I love the idea that in Germany, when people are thinking like, I'm going to go play a sport now, better eat a chocolate bar.

Yeah, I think it's second only to the Japanese lemon lime drink, Pokhari Sweat.

Yes.

Which, by the way, way, I learned in the New Yorker, Pokhari Sweat is hiring a spaceship to be the first sports drink on the moon.

What do you mean, hiring a spaceship?

What, they're going over to Mosesly?

They're going to the cantina, asking around

for safe passage to the alternatives.

Can you do the Kessel run?

They're asking.

Yeah, that's right.

I can say Star Wars stuff.

Yeah, you're right.

You're part of culture.

Anyway, Carl, your partner is doing the wrong thing.

It's a long, long route to get to.

Of course, I'm going to agree with you, Carl.

I'm an only child.

I'm a rule follower.

I'm going to follow the rules of the chocolate bar and use those indentations.

Someone put them out there for a reason.

It's to keep it looking as pristine as possible the entire time.

Break off the segments.

That's what they're there for.

Carl's partner, you're not in so much of a rush to scarf down a bunch of chocolate before you go play sports, before you go play soccer.

Oh, you know what's really popular in Germany, Jesse?

Handball.

Oh, really?

Yeah, Germany's considered to be the birthplace of handball.

Team handball or the kind of handball they play in New York City?

I didn't read that far on the Wikipedia page.

Okay.

I knew that Zeppelin hangars were very popular in Germany as a vacation destination.

Yes, they are, as are water slide parks.

I bet

a good water slide park that is housed in a former Zeppelin factory in Germany probably has a handball court in it somewhere because it's very popular.

Eat some chocolate, play some handball.

But you're not in so much of a rush, Carl's partner, to go play that handball that you got to just, you have to, you have to tear off that chocolate and dirty shards and make your chocolate bar look like junk.

Come on.

But you know what, Carl and Carl's partner?

Even though I agree with Carl, you guys, that little nibbles, that it's gross.

I'm glad you enjoy a fancy, expensive chocolate bar a week.

I'm glad you have the means to enjoy it.

And I'm not going to shame you for that, but for little nibbles, I have to punish you.

So next week, don't spend that money on a very expensive candy bar.

Donate it to a worthy cause.

I'm going to suggest Planned Parenthood one week.

That's my punishment for Lil Nibbles.

I don't know if you ever listened to SoundCloud rap, but I'm a pretty big fan of Lil Nibs.

Lil Nibs as a rap name, I love.

I also love chocolate with the nibs in.

Lil Nibs X.

Nathaniel says, the other day, my mother casually mentioned, you know, we're descendants of Alexander the Great.

When I asked why she thought this, she said, oh, my grandma talked about it.

Sorry, Jesse, someone's knocking on my door.

Hang on a second.

Excuse me for one second.

What?

No, no, no.

It's a misunderstanding.

Okay, bye.

Sorry, Jesse.

It was Billy Ray Cyrus.

He heard us talking about rappers and he wanted to know if he could drop a verse in.

Okay, Nathaniel says,

The other day, my mother casually mentioned, you know, we're descendants of Alexander the Great.

When I asked why she thought this, she said, oh, my grandma talked about it all the time.

I mean, I don't mean to call my great-grandma a liar, but old Uncle Alex died 2,342 years ago, so there may be some room for error.

All I ask is that my mother consider that over the last couple millennia, someone might have misspoken.

Should my mother rethink her claim, or should I fulfill my destiny as the rightful heir to the throne of Macedonia?

Bailiff Jesse, do you have any sort of family lore about interesting connections to history in your family?

My father's parents, who were

reformed racists,

I wouldn't say uncharacteristically racist for their time.

In fact, I would probably say less racist than was typical for their time.

These are

people born in the 20s, I think.

But definitely racists, like pretty much all white people of the early and mid-20th century in America.

Right.

They were proud to talk with my dad about some Quaker ancestors,

including some African-American and Native American Quaker ancestors, which is a very classic.

I mean, it's a beautiful thing that there were, you know, there were Quakers welcoming

and in some cases helping escaped slaves and free black people, many of whom were incorporated into Quaker communities, and also that they were welcoming to Native people of the Americas in their communities.

That's a great thing.

Society of Friends is a great faith tradition.

Totally.

But I would say it is also a classic, how could I be racist when I'm

a pop-out.

Beyond that, I think the best thing was

my mother's uncle was head steward at the White House.

But I think that's actually true.

Oh, that's interesting.

Like Lee Daniels the Butler?

Exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, I think

that's the kind of job you have when you were a working-class person in Washington, D.C.

in 1940.

Is that why your middle name, your full name is Jesse Lee Daniels the Butler Thorne?

Actually, my middle name is Jesse Precious based on the novel Push by Sapphire Thorne.

Touche.

Well, yeah, and what your grandparents were doing was not uncommon uncommon at all.

I mean,

we know that in the American West, a lot of families, a lot of white families by all class structure, appearance, and every background would claim some distant link to Native American heritage.

It was pretty common.

Sometimes, and lots of times it was true, right?

But the truth of it didn't matter so much as the story.

Like, I have some Native American background.

And that was a way of laying claim to that history and saying,

I'm part of that history.

So it's not just that we committed genocide here.

I am part of that terrible, tragic history, and therefore I can't be fully blamed for it.

Or simply like, I love Native American heritage and culture, and I wish we hadn't done this, and I'm glad to be a part of it.

But that's what makes it so problematic, right?

There is even specifically a weird sort of racial problematic surrounding being descended from Alexander the Great, because I didn't know this until I did a little digging, but there is a folk legend that the Kalasha people of Pakistan are descended from

the Greek soldiers of Alexander the Great when they came and settled in Pakistan.

The Kalasha people are a very small and somewhat isolated culture in Pakistan.

They speak their own language, they have their own religion, and they're very pale in skin compared to other people of Pakistan.

And this fascinated people.

You know, Rudyard Kipling wrote the novel, The Man Who Would Be King, about this group of secret Caucasians in Pakistan who are like the magical descendants of Alexander the Great.

There's really no truth to this fable as far as science is concerned that they were descended from Alexander the Great.

It's all part of sort of this colonialist fable about why this population of slightly lighter-skinned people in Pakistan has to be connected somehow

to the history of Western brilliance and royalty.

And that's gross.

That's a gross thing, and it's not important.

Basically, just there's some paler people in Pakistan.

That's the way it goes.

This kind of family folklore is tricky and problematic because it's loaded.

It means something, right?

But claiming heritage, claiming connection to a past, an exalted past, or a tragic past, that's not science, and it's pretty bad history to boot.

What your mom says is almost assuredly a myth and a pointless one because who cares who comes from Alexander the Great.

Still, rather than allow you to shame her on my podcast for your own amusement, I'll let her continue her harmless self-deception knowing that the myth will die with you.

Look forwards, not backwards.

Let's take a quick break when we come back.

A case about stolen valor and a letter from a listener in Hong Kong.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother meet for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So, check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news, we still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lawman.

I'm Caroline Roper and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket right out this week.

Here's something from Aurora.

I'm a trans woman and I used to be in the military.

I was in the National Guard for seven years and it was rough.

I enlisted when I was 17 and it was before Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed.

I struggled through quite a few internal and external conflicts.

I was honorably discharged and got rid of my Army everything.

Now I'm 31 and I'm still learning how to express myself.

I'm visibly trans and occasionally face some difficulty because of that on the street.

My mother and brother recently gifted me a leather jacket they got in an estate sale.

To my knowledge, it's not military issue, but it has patches on it denoting specific units and places the individual trained.

I don't know where stolen valor begins and ends.

I don't want to commit it, and I also don't want to face any conflict with someone brazen enough to call me out on it.

I want to find my expression.

A leather jacket like this seems nice, a bit punk, and also expresses some military experience, though it's not my own.

If I wear this, am I guilty of stolen valor?

Am I guilty of reckless endangerment?

Hmm.

Reckless endangerment of herself.

It's a big question.

First of all, I want to thank Aurora for sharing this story and for her service.

Volunteering to be part of the military is quite a gift of self.

And I am sorry that her experience was not good, or not as good as it might be.

I would hope that it would be getting better, but I don't think it is right now for trans people in the military.

I think there's pretty ample evidence that it's getting harder.

And certainly not a workplace where people feel consistently safe in that regard.

As far as Dolan Valor goes, boy, oh boy, I don't know.

My compass is not well tuned to this because I did not serve in the military.

I have to, therefore, defer to the compass and conscience of someone someone who has.

And Aurora, you are that person.

And it sounds to me that even though I don't believe you've done anything wrong and people are walking around with old bomber jackets, with old military badges and patches on it all the time,

but it sounds as though your conscience is somewhat troubled by this.

And I think you have to accept that gift of your unconscious mind that is like, maybe this doesn't feel exactly right.

And I would imagine, if you sit with it for a moment and think about taking those patches off, that it might feel better to do that.

And if the memory of your service is not so troubled that you would rather not think of it anymore, which it may be, if you have fond memories of any kind of your service in the Air Force, and there are

appropriate patches commemorating that service, put those on that leather jacket.

And then, in the very unlikely event that a total creep stops you on the street and accuses you of stolen valor,

maybe because of what you look like or who he thinks you are, you can point to that patch and say, no, no, I'm a trans woman who served in the Air Force.

Shut up, dummy.

And then you'll not only not have a problem of conscience, however on the bubble it might be, but you will have an opportunity to do active good in this world and continue a fight that really needs to be fought here at home.

John, we saw a photo of the jacket.

I don't think it's a military issue jacket, but she's right.

There are a fair number of patches on here that suggest specific military organizations that aren't the ones that she was part of.

And there's also a Viking hat and a, I think, a Norwegian flag.

So, like, this is, this is, this is not, you know, a battle uniform.

But while I am not a

veteran myself I am the child of a veteran who worked in veterans' rights for most of my life and for many years before I was born

and I'm also a vintage clothing dealer

and I am inclined to agree with you John like I think the basic standard that one should follow

is

not to wear any military insignia or symbols that you could reasonably have been presumed to have earned yourself.

And this is a reasonably contemporary jacket, and I don't think it would be unreasonable for a passerby to presume that the wearer was indicating their own specific military experience.

And since that wasn't Aurora's specific military experience, I think you're right.

I think she should just take the patches off.

It's kind of a cool jacket and you can put other patches on.

Yeah, exactly.

I've been really into patches lately.

I went to Mexico City recently and I bought a bunch of really cool patches,

including some giant ones that just say skydiver on them.

You know, put a different patch on there,

one that is more commensurate with your own experience, whether or not it's a military patch.

Yeah, you know what, Aurora?

In addition to your own service patches, if you have any and want to wear them, we're going to send you, we're going to make up a Judge John Hodgman

Legion

of Very Awesomeness patch.

It's Judge John Hodgman Awesome Squad, 5th Division,

or some such.

I'm going to figure it out.

I haven't quite decided

what it's going to be, and you can wear that.

Because

you definitely have valor in this court.

Here is a a follow-up letter from a listener named Lorraine, who is a subscriber to Judge John Hodgman's lifestyle newsletter.

Yep.

Comes out every week if I remember to write it.

And it's a lot of lifestyle advice, things I'm listening to, watching, reading, things I'm doing where I want people to show up.

And more and more little excerpts, sort of like outtakes and small excerpts from Medallion Status, the book that I just finished, that are going out secretly and exclusively to the lifestylers who subscribe.

My lifestyle newsletter.

Also, I've got a big letter from James,

our listener and my reader who is from Alabama,

but lives in Iceland and works at night in a greenhouse.

An incredible letter coming out.

If you want to add this to your lifestyle, all you need to do is go to bit.ly slash hodgemail, H-O-D-G-M-A-I-L, and that's all small letters, bit.lee slash hodgemail.

And Lorraine wrote in saying, what, Jesse?

Dear Judge Sean Hodgman, Hello, it's Lorraine, a longtime listener from Hong Kong.

I just wanted to say thank you.

Your humor and fake internet court have been a meaningful part of my life ever since I listened to an early case about an annoying parrot.

I remember it.

I'm currently going through my first breakup at 25, and your justice and lifestyle are helping me move through the disorienting pain.

Thank you for creating all these beautiful things.

Thank you for all the little pockets of laughter and awe that transport me back to this pulsing world.

P.S.

I don't have any dispute interesting enough for justice, but I do wonder sometimes if there are other Hong Kong listeners out there.

Oh, that's very nice, Lorraine.

I kind of wish you had written for all, instead of little pockets of laughter, all the little nibbles of laughter.

All the little laughter nibs that I drop in.

No,

I was obviously very flattered to get this letter,

but I was also very excited to learn that Lorraine is listening from Hong Kong.

It's like people are listening all over the world, and Lorraine's out there in Hong Kong going through a breakup.

So if there are any Judge John Hodgman listeners within the sound of my voice who are also listening in Hong Kong who want to meet up with Lorraine and give her some distraction during a difficult time, have a cup of coffee or play a board game or make a puzzle, as Patrick Stewart says, instead of solve a puzzle.

Remember how Patrick Stewart does jigsaw puzzles?

We were talking about that the other week, Jesse?

Yeah.

And it was a dispute over whether or not it was right to use the picture of the puzzle while you're solving it.

Yeah.

Well, I heard from Dan Stewart, Patrick Stewart's son.

For all you no picture people out there, of course Captain Picard uses the picture.

Anyway,

I guess the best way to do it would be to go on to the Maximum Fun Reddit and start a thread saying, hey, Lorraine, I'm in Hong Kong too.

And Lorraine, if you're listening, you can go to the MaxFun Reddit and you can connect with that person if you feel like it.

Same Same deal.

If you're in a town or a faraway place or a nearaway place and you want to connect with other Judge John Hodgman listeners, the Reddit would be the place to do it.

And where do you go to do that Reddit, Jesse?

MaximumFund.reddit.com.

And bit.ly slash Hodgmail if you want to hear what I have to say once a week.

And Hodgman at maximumfund.org if you want to tell me what you have to say.

It's always nice to hear from somebody for whom our podcast, which is a dumb podcast, has actual utility.

It's nice to know that it has like a significant role in somebody's life, like getting them through a tough time or something like that.

Thank you for letting us know, Lorraine.

We're very proud to have given you a little bit of help in a tough time in anybody's life.

Yeah, send you these little nibbles of distraction.

I want to go to Hong Kong.

Me too.

That's basically what this guy.

Like, Lorraine, do you have a...

Do you own a hotel?

Lorraine, why don't you see if there's an audience for a live justice show in Hong Kong?

That would be amazing.

The docket is now clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

This week's episode was edited by our friend, the great Christian Duenas.

Thanks, Christian.

Pondulce enthusiast, Christian Duenas.

Pondulce is gross.

Our producer is...

To me.

To me, it is gross.

Our producer is the great Jennifer Marmer.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohnhodgman tweets, hashtag jjho.

And check out the maximum fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com to chat about this week's episode.

No jerks, please.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash jjho or email hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Bye-bye.

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